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In my opinion dead Punisher in D&W is Ray Stevenson, here's my points: - Ray is only Punisher that used Rocket Launcher in the movie - Ray Stevenson is dead (RIP) so writers could by killing him off making tribute or dark humor joke - He is only live action Punisher i think will have any willing to work together in the Resistance - others are living in two realistic worlds to survive that long in the void to join Resistance, Stevenson is the only one who is livining in comic booky enough universe
Very good reasoning. Yeah, I definitely think the rocket launcher came from Ray's Punisher (RIP). I do wonder if the Russian was also an indication that Jane's Punisher was pruned at some point, but the film definitely seems to lean towards Ray as the main Punisher being honored in the film.
@AbitofEverything4U yeah maybe both or even all three was pruned, but i don't think Dolph and Jane lived very long with all wierd things usually happening here
@@SuperSprawa3honestly, those probably either got kept in the dark through direct tva intervention, or were just killed outright. They would just be easier to kill than to prune. Also I think just about *any* Punisher is clever enough to find a way out and "punish" the tva for pissing him off. Although there's a chance he's recruitable, depending on when in his timeline they approach him. Imagine a struck team of nothing BUT Franks. He could work with himself. That bent morality and love of war of his are an interdimensional constant
2:25 Deadpool's word choice of "like 5" means he's not even sure if that is the correct amount. Not that it matters in that moment because he's just simply conveying there were a lot of punishers and elektra didn't specify which one because she does not have knowledge other actors have played him like deadpool does
Well said...yeah, I really think Deadpool was spit balling the number 5, but on the other hand, it's fun to try to figure out what the 5 would be, if we were to talk him literally.
I also think it was referring to Ray Stevenson. One of his most famous Punisher scenes was shooting that parkour guy in mid air with a rocket launcher..
I was thinking maybe early on he could’ve been part of the movie, but after his death they removed his cameo/role but left a tribute to him in the form of that reference. No clue if that’s actually what happened, but it makes his movie feel more like the intended reference to me (as well as the rocket launcher the comment above me mentioned)
I like to believe that's Ray Stevenson Punisher's AT4. Actor passed away, he was last in a Star Wars Disney Plus show recently and never got his due in the character, so I'd say this was the tribute he deserved. He would've been a great addition to the cast in 'Deadpool & Wolverine' for his last role. RIP Ray Stevenson, you deserved better.
I agree...I think that's a wonderful tribute to Ray (RIP!) for them to have been pointing at his version of the Punisher with the inclusion of the Rocket Launcher. Excellent theory!
I agree...the timelines are so interesting to me, and it's all the more cool since these movies are now tied into the multiverse and are directly referenced through DP&W. Love that so much!
Nic Cage's Ghost Rider was in concept art, and Ryan Reynolds did confirm they talked with him. So he may come back for Secret Wars. Especially since Ryan didn't really say much other than Nic was talked to, which is unusual since Ryan is VERY talkative.
@@AbitofEverything4U It would have been crazy if he also appeared, hey there is also concept art of Wade in a comic book looking universe with the og 6 avengers now that would have been insane and sadly spoiled on the internet. Hope we see Cage and this comic universe in secret wars.
The Jigsaw in Warzone was so much better than the one in season 2 on Netflix. Good lord that one felt like his only direction was "I don't know, something like Joker I guess?"
I agree...I liked the Jigsaw in Warzone alot better. His acting was abit over the top, but the character was handled alot better and his make-up was peak!
The 5th Punisher could be the Punisher from the Thomas Jane movie tie in game, since the game is a different continuity from the film despite being Thomas Jane, due to Punisher being a Vietnam veteran, and characters like Daredevil, Kingpin, Nick Fury, Black Widow and even Iron Man showing up.
"Skull (2020) - Stuntman Eric Linden, who worked on the MCU / Netflix series The Punisher as a stunt coordinator, second unit director, and stunt double for Jon Bernthal, directed and portrayed the Punisher in the short fan-film Skull, produced in association with FXitinPost." This is my guess for Punisher #5.
Both universes are stated to be differents But hey is a good theory join these Marvel heroes from the pre Blade era. There are at least 4 of them who inicially meant to be partw of the same continuity. The Captain America from 1979, the 1978 dr strange, the 70s spidey and Lou Ferrigno Hulk and his TV Movies wich include 3 other heroes Daredevil, Thor and some kinda of Black widow called Jasmine. The Punisher Movie was made by New World Studios These years New World television also made the Hulk TV Movies Also in one scene they show the Punisher daughters using spiderman pajamas At this point, the 70s Spider-Man should be known to the point of having merchandise made based on him like in Into the Spiderverse where there are Spiderman comics and video games.
So powerful to see Thomas Jane die in the Doomsday comic imitation of RDJ Doom in the TVA. You recruit a guy who has blood and very convincing to know a guy has access for justice and able to defend any guy after told why he's there. He had no powers but would make sense to get these useful information nodded.
I think Ray Stevenson's Punisher is the one that fell. It would make it the easiest the handwave the off-screen death due to the unfortunate demise of Ray Stevenson, and his version was most comic book of the Punishers, so that rocket they used was more likely from him.
Soooo glad you covered this thank you Joof, Punisher 1989 watch party was a great watch in your discord, no shade to Punisher 2008, it was a cool dark action film with a totally bizarre villain (interesting choice lol!) & brilliant casting with Ray but the 1989 felt more what i expect & want from pre 2010s comic book films
kinda unrelated but i just wanted to say I'm from brazil and your videos helped me a lot in learning english your videos are amazing, it's very great to see your effort into this channel dude
I don't think anything Deadpool says can be taken as confirmation that something is canon to the multiverse - by the same logic, the DCEU would be canon because he references that. Wade clearly knows stuff about movies that a character inside the MCU shouldn't know.
Good points! Yeah, Deadpool is definitely an unreliable narrator. But I think the Punisher reference is more likely to be reliable as we do see the rocket launcher and Elektra confirms it was from the Punisher. We also see the Russian who was a Punisher villain. So at least for me, those things combined with Deadpool's joke make it seem more likely we can trust the Punisher movies are canon. But all that said, I agree with you that it's definitely up for debate and each fan will likely form their own opinions on it. Thanks for the feedback on the vid. Really appreciate it!
@@xxx_rotfd_xiii_xii3619 Agreed...although the canonicity of the games is trickier. I don't think, for instance, that the What If game is considered canon, as it goes against alot of what was established in the What If series. It's a very cool game, but Feige hasn't stated that it's canon at this point and so I suspect it will remain non-canon.
I really love that you make sure to go through all of this content. I’d love a man thing video and also I’d love a Modok/Hit Monkey video too. Mutant X and more older stuff would be super cool to see as well. But another idea that you’ve occasionally touched on but I’d love to see more of, are the games. There’s so many underrated marvel games and questions about canon too (like is Marvel vs Capcom in the 90s marvel universe) that would be super cool to see as well. Great video either way
Yeah, I may need to do a video on the games at some point. It's hard to get screen caps from the games as well as hard to find good breakdowns to use as reference. But I suspect if I dig hard enough, I can find some good info on the games. Great suggestion!
@@AbitofEverything4Uthe biggest issue I have with those games is research as well. Walkthroughs on UA-cam might be your best bet. Personally I’d love to play them all, but the time commitment for that is crazy huge. Unfortunately these aren’t well documented (more reason why you should do it lol)
Here's my take: I don't think any of the Punisher films are canon or at least necessary to watch for the Multiverse Saga yet, cause no characters from any of them have popped up at this point. Perhaps we could see Tom Jane's Punisher show up in Secret Wars? I think that'd be dope and they could have him share a moment with Bernthal's version.
I think that's a very fair position to take. I definitely agree that we haven't seen any of the 3 earlier Punisher's directly referenced. But I do think the movie is hinting at them via the Russian, the rocket launcher and the Punisher mention. So in the end, I think it will likely be a decision each fan makes and thus I figured the timeline breakdowns were good to have out there for those that consider the movies canon. Really appreciate you sharing your perspective on it. Thanks so much!
I remember wondering whether Marvel Disney would want to use the Punisher due to the recent politicization of the character in the mainstream so I'm glad they still want to use the character.
I never thought of that reference cannonizing all Punisher's but now that you brought it up makes sense to me. Also if there is a 5th one then it could be The 90s Animated Series since they could possibly tie it in to the rest through 97
I hadn't paid much attention to the pre-MCU Punisher films; I was surprised that they have some pretty good story hooks there: "What if a gangster had to team up with the Punisher to save his kid?", "What if the Punisher killed an undercover agent"--both solid ideas, might have to check them out. I had no idea Wayne Knight played Micro! Makes perfect sense for that time. I wonder if the "five Punishers" line isn't a reference left over from that annoying period when the pre-Marvel Studios MCU TV stuff was being treated as sort of a separate continuity, when the Timeline book was being written and the initial version of the new Daredevil show was being shot. So the five Punishers would have been Dolph Lundgren, Thomas Jane, Ray Stevenson, Jon Bernthal (Netflix), and Jon Bernthal (MCU). Then after the Daredevil reshoots happened and the Netflix shows were added into the Disney+ timeline, no one thought to change the line since it was just a joke. But I'm probably just reading too much into this. 😄
That's a really good theory on where the number 5 came from. Nice call! And I agree, the plots of both of those Dolph and Stevenson Punisher movies had some very interesting angles to them. Jane's Punisher movie was also pretty creative in its plot as well.
I'd gotta disagree to "X-Men '97 canon to the MCU" and no don't bring the multiverse into this because the show did not even referenced the MCU. The unofficial 90's Marvel Animated Universe and the MCU are two separate universe and there will never be a crossover between these universe unless Marvel wants to have a crossover between this universe.
i also think it could have been ray stevenson because he was the only punisher who used a rocket launcher. dolph, used guns and other weapons like swords, tom jane was guns, knife, paper cutter, arrow and swiss army knife, and it can't be jon because he's revealed to be alive in daredevil born again.
Great point about Ray (RIP) and the rocket launcher. Yeah, I have to wonder if maybe they were trying to refer to all three of them. The rocket launcher refers to Ray, the Russian refers to Thomas, and the mention of five different punisher pulls in Dolph.
@@AbitofEverything4U , kevin nash saw the pic of the russian in deadpool and wolverine, and says that's not my character, so it could have been a different variant.
@@AbitofEverything4U , i agree as well. also you were right about warzone being brutal. frank freakin punched a guy's head into mush. i was like shocked.
Taking a look at your current spreadsheet, here are my current thoughts: - Separate out the current revived Marvel Animated Universe into its own label apart from "MV - Animated". - Why is Hit Monkey and Moongirl & Devil Dinosaur listed under "MV - Show" show, when they are animated? - Same with the Lego movies, I feel they should get a category of their own just for easier filtering. - Maybe its the Sonic fan in me, but I REALLY want to sort some of these projects into eras. Like, I feel weird that Avengers Assemble is in the same category as Spider-Man and his Amazing Friends. Here are my preferred groupings. Incoming list of lists: Marvel Animated Universe (MAU) 1. X-Men: The Animated Series (1992) [Season 1, 13 Episodes] 2. X-Men: The Animated Series (1993) [Season 2, 13 Episodes] 3. X-Men: The Animated Series (1994) [Season 3, 19 Episodes] 4. Iron Man (1994) [Season 1, 13 Episodes] 5. Fantastic Four (1994) [Season 1, 13 Episodes] 6. Spider-Man (1994) [Season 1, 13 Episodes] 7. X-Men: The Animated Series (1995) [Season 4, 21 Episodes] 8. Spider-Man (1995) [Season 2, 14 Episodes] 9. Iron Man (1995) [Season 2, 13 Episodes] 10. Fantastic Four (1995) [Season 2, 13 Episodes] 11. Spider-Man (1996) [Season 3, 14 Episodes] 12. X-Men: The Animated Series (1996) [Season 5, 10 Episodes] 13. The Incredible Hulk (1996) [Season 1, 13 Episodes] 14. Spider-Man (1997 [Season 4, 11 Episodes] 15. The Incredible Hulk (1997) [Season 2, 8 Episodes] 16. Spider-Man (1997) [Season 5, 13 Episodes] 17. _?? Silver Surfer (1998) [13 Episodes] ??_ 18. _?? The Avengers: United They Stand (1999) [13 Episodes] ??_ 19. _?? Spider-Man Unlimited (1999) [13 Episodes] ??_ 20. X-Men '97 (2024) [10 Episodes] Legacy Marvel Animated Universe (LMAU) 1. The Marvel Super Heroes [65 Episodes] 2. The Fantastic Four (1967) [20 Episodes] 3. Spider-Man (1967-1970) [3 Seasons, 52 Episodes] 4. The New Fantastic Four (1978) [13 Episodes] 5. Fred and Barney Meet the Thing (1979) [13 Episodes] 6. Spider-Woman (1979) [16 Episodes] 7. Dracula: Sovereign of the Damned (1980) 8. Monster of Frankenstein (1981) 9. Spider-Man (1981) [26 Episodes] 10. Spider-Man and His Amazing Friends (1981-1983) [3 Seasons, 24 Episodes] 11. The Incredible Hulk (1982) [13 Episodes] 12. Solarman (1988) 13. X-Men: Pryde of the X-Men (1989) Extended Marvel Animated Universe (EMAU) 1. X-Men: Evolution (2000-2003) [4 Seasons, 52 Episodes] 2. Spider-Man: The New Animated Series (2003) [13 Episodes] 3. Fantastic Four: World's Greatest Heroes (2006) [26 Episodes] 4. The Spectacular Spider-Man (2008-2009) [2 Seasons, 26 Episodes] 5. Wolverine and the X-Men (2009) [26 Episodes] 6. Marvel Superheroes: What the--?! (2009-2017) [110 Shorts] 7. Iron Man: Armored Adventures (2009-2012) [2 Seasons, 52 Episodes] 8. The Super Hero Squad Show (2009 -2011) [2 Seasons, 52 Episodes] 9. Black Panther (2010) [6 Episodes] 10. Marvel Anime (2010) [12 Episodes] 11. Thor & Loki: Blood Brothers (2011) [4 Episodes] 12. The Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes (2010-2012) [2 Seasons, 52 Episodes] 13. Ultimate Spider-Man (2012-2017) [4 Seasons, 104 Episodes] 14. Avengers Assemble (2013-2019) [5 Seasons, 127 Episodes] 15. Hulk and the Agents of S.M.A.S.H. (2013-2015) [2 Seasons, 52 Episodes] 16. Marvel Disk Wars: The Avengers (2014) [51 Episodes] 17. Guardians of the Galaxy (2015-2019) [3 Seasons, 79 Episodes] 18. Rocket & Groot (2017) [12 Episodes] 19. Ant-Man (2017) [6 Episodes] 20. Marvel Future Avengers (2017-2018) [2 Seasons, 39 Episodes] 21. Spider-Man (2017-2020) [3 Seasons, 58 Episodes] 22. Marvel Super Hero Adventures (2017-2020) [4 Seasons, 40 Episodes 23. Big Hero 6: The Series (2017-2021) [3 Seaspms. 56 Episodes] 24. M.O.D.O.K. (2021) [10 Episodes] 25. Baymax! (2022) [6 Episodes] 26. Spidey and His Amazing Friends (2021-2024) [3 Seasons, 70 Episodes] 27. Hit-Monkey (2021-2024) [2 Seasons, 20 Episodes] 28. Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur (2023-2024) [2 Seasons, 30 Episodes] Marvel Animated Cinematic Universe (MACU) 1. Ultimate Avengers (2006) 2. Ultimate Avengers 2 (2006) 3. The Invincible Iron Man (2007) 4. Doctor Strange: The Sorcerer Supreme (2007) 5. Next Avengers: Heroes of Tomorrow (2008) 6. Hulk Versus (2009) 7. Planet Hulk (2010) 8. Thor: Tales of Asgard (2011) 9. Iron Man: Rise of Technovore (2013) 10. Iron Man & Hulk: Heroes United (2013) 11. Avengers Confidential: Black Widow & Punisher (2014) 12. Iron Man & Captain America: Heroes United (2014) 13. Marvel Super Hero Adventures: Frost Fight! (2015) 14. Hulk: Where Monsters Dwell (2016) Marvel Rising Universe (MRU) 1. Marvel Rising: Initiation (2018) [6 Shorts] 2. Marvel Rising: Secret Warriors (2018) 3. Marvel Rising: Chasing Ghosts (2019) 4. Marvel Rising: Heart of Iron (2019) 5. Marvel Rising: Battle of the Bands (2019) 6. Marvel Rising: Operation Shuri (2019) 7. Marvel Rising: Playing with Fire (2019) Lego Marvel Universe (LMU) 1. Lego Marvel Super Heroes: Maximum Overload (2013) 2. Lego Marvel Super Heroes: Avengers Reassembled (2015) 3. Lego Marvel Super Heroes - Guardians of the Galaxy: The Thanos Threat (2017) 4. Lego Marvel Super Heroes - Black Panther: Trouble in Wakanda (2018) 5. Lego Marvel Spider-Man: Vexed by Venom (2019) 6. Lego Marvel Avengers: Climate Conundrum (2020) 7. Lego Marvel Avengers: Loki in Training (2021) 8. Lego Marvel Avengers: Time Twisted (2022) 9. Lego Marvel Avengers: Code Red (2023) Legacy Marvel Cinematic Universe (LMCU) 1. Captain America (1944) [15 Episodes] 2. Spidey Super Stories (1974-1977) [3 Seasons, 29 Episodes] 3. Spider-Man (1977) [Pilot Movie] 4. The Incredible Hulk (1977-1982) [5 Seasons, 80 Episodes] 5. The Amazing Spider-Man (1978-1979) [2 Seasons, 13 Episodes] 6. Spider-Man [JP] (1978-1979) [41 Episodes] 7. Dr. Strange (1978) 8. Captain America (1979) 9. Captain America II: Death Too Soon (1979) 10. Howard the Duck (1986) 11. The Incredible Hulk Returns (1988) 12. The Trial of the Incredible Hulk (1989) 13. The Punisher (1989) 14. The Death of the Incredible Hulk (1988) 15. Captain America (1990) 16. Power Pack (1991) 17. The Fantastic Four (1994) 18. Generation X (1996) 19. Nick Fury: Agent of S.H.I.E.L.D. (1998) Extended Marvel Cinematic Universe (EMCU) 1. Blade (1998) 2. X-Men (2000) 3. Blade II (2002) 4. Spider-Man (2002) 5. Daredevil (2003) 6. X2: X-Men United (2003) 7. Hulk (2003) 8. The Punisher (2004) 9. Spider-Man 2 (2004) 10. Blade: Trinity (2004) 11. Elektra (2005) 12. Man-Thing (2005) 13. Fantastic Four (2005) 14. X-Men: The Last Stand (2006) 15. Blade: The Series (2006) [13 Episodes] 16. Ghost Rider (2007) 17. Spider-Man 3 (2007) 18. Fantastic Four: Rise of the Silver Surfer (2007) 19. Punisher: War Zone (2008) 20. X-Men Origins: Wolverine (2009) 21. X-Men: First Class (2011) 22. Ghost Rider: Spirit of Vengeance (2011) 23. The Amazing Spider-Man (2012) 24. The Wolverine (2013) 25. The Amazing Spider-Man 2 (2014) 26. X-Men: Days of Future Past (2014) 27. Big Hero 6 (2014) 28. Fant4stic (2015) 29. Deadpool (2016) 30. X-Men: Apocalypse (2016) 31. Logan (2016) 32. Deadpool: No Good Deed (2017) 33. Legion (2017-2019) [3 Seasons, 27 Episodes] 34. The Gifted (2017-2019) [2 Seasons, 29 Episodes] 35. Deadpool 2 (2018) 36. Venom (2018) 37. Spider-Man: Into the Spider-Verse (2018) 38. Spider-Ham: Caught in a Ham (2019) 39. X-Men: Dark Phoenix (2019) 40. The New Mutants (2020) 41. Deadpool and Korg React (2021) 42. Venom: Let There Be Carnage (2021) 43. Morbius (2022) 44. The Spider Within: A Spider-Verse Story (2023) 45. Spider-Man: Across the Spider-Verse (2023) 46. Madame Web (2024) 47. Venom: The Last Dance (2024) 48. Kraven the Hunter (2024) 49. Spider-Man: Beyond the Spider-Verse (2025) Though seeing it all listed out, I can understand why some might just prefer the one large grouping. Even seeing the Extended MCU, I wonder if there is merit to separating the Sony stuff apart from the rest. Also I never decided what to do with Big Hero 6. Ah well, hopefully this is useful to someone.
Very cool suggestions! 1. I added filters for MV - Lego Game and MV - Lego Movie 2. I made Hit Monkey and Moongirl & Devil Dinosaur and M.O.D.O.K. animated, as I agree, those should be listed as animated. 3. I need to think abit more on the breakdown for the Marvel Animated Universe. I agree that there is a distinction that could be added, but I suspect there will be alot of debates on how to categorize those shows, so I'll start up a convo on the discord about it. Again, excellent suggestions. Really appreciate all your awesome feedback!
As i mentioned on the Discord server, i kinda wonder if Deadpool line of there being 5 Punisher if we were to take that literally and not as a joke or something, what if its a left-over reference to Daredevil Born Again, as lets not forget that originally Born Again was gonna serve as a reboot to the Netflix verse and was supposed to release before Deadpool 3 had the strikes not happened and Jon Bernthal was already part of the cast before the overhaul, so technically speaking that would've made the BA Punisher the fifth iteration of the character even though it would've been the same actor had they decided to stick to their original plans instead of overhauling the show to maintain the canon of the Netflixverse
Great points! Yeah, in a way, there was indeed going to be a second Punisher since it was going to be a reboot in DD: Born Again at the point when the script for DP&W was being written. Love that theory for the 5th Punisher!
I do think all of them are canon, because of the whole multiverse thing, and aside from Ray Stevenson's universe both Thomas Jane and Dolph Lundgren's universe have official universe numbers. If there was gonna be a 5th Punisher out there, assuming if we're taking the "5" literally and counting them based on actors, I'd bet it would be Thomas Jane's stunt double that appeared in Spider Man 2. Not to mention the Raimiverse is connected to the MCU. Sort of a low key confirmation that is suppose to be the Punisher in Spider Man 2. Also I'm not sure if this accurate but I like to think the Russian that appeared in Deadpool and Wolverine is from Ray Stevenson's universe.
Great feedback! Yeah, I think this makes all the iterations of the Punisher canon, which is very cool. Can't wait to see what they do to top DP&W when we get Secret Wars in a few years!
Although Deadpool was most likely joking with his comment about five Punishers, I like the theory that the extra one is referring to Thomas Jane's stunt double in Spider-Man 2.
Yep, would be such a great meta reference if they were referring to his stunt double sneaking in there. Love that he showed up in the movie, even if it was only for a second!
Thats fake Debunked by Thomas jane Himself to a Magazine in 2005, he even joked about it There is no Thomas Jane or stunt double there Raimi never said that
@@Mr_Wayne2012 Oh, we're not saying Raimi said it was planned or intentional. We're just saying you can see the stunt double in the movie very clearly. But it wasn't done at Raimi's request and he might not have even known it happened until after the fact.
@@Mr_Wayne2012 Oh, how interesting...after I left that first comment, I found this article: wegotthiscovered.com/movies/8-best-ever-superhero-movie-crossovers/4/. I guess in the DVD commentary it was specifically mentioned that this was supposed to be the Punisher. I may check the commentary to see if that's correct.
@@AbitofEverything4U I know perfectly well that "they mentioned it in the DVD commentary" But that is completely false, as in the 3 existing Spider-Man 2 DVD commentary clips, only one of them features Sam Raimi, and he never mentions the Punisher at all. Someone on UA-cam even uploaded their research on the rumor and posted the 3 DVD commentary tracks, proving that they never mentioned it. It was just an internet rumor that evolved into that.
I'm a huge MCU fan and because of the people always ask me where one MCU character was during another's movie or why they didn't help. So I was hoping you could make a video covering the whereabouts of each character for each movie and what they were doing instead of helping
What a really interesting idea. Yeah, I’m always thinking to myself “hey, why doesn’t hero XYZ show up to help?” so it would be an fun analysis to see what everyone was doing during each movie or show. That’s a really cool suggestion!
War Zone isn't a sequel to Thomas Jane's movie, but I have to think that it was initially planned to be that way, but was reworked as time went on. Honestly, with just a few tweaks made to either movie, it wouldn't be that much of a stretch to have them connected to one another since Jane's movie is the origin story while War Zone establishes that he's been at this for awhile. The big thing would be more the complete shift in tone which could easily be the result of a different writer or director, etc, which we've already seen in the MCU, so it can work. Because these are comic book movies, they can shift with each iteration and runs they pull from, and given that Frank has been at this for 5 years by the time of War Zone, it's feasible that he could be even more violent and dealing with even crazier folks and wackos than just your typical mafia. One of the big moments for me though was when Frank punched a guy in the face, and literally caved the dude's face in. I don't know if that's scientifically possible without breaking your own hand, but it certainly sets a tone, and Thomas Jane wasn't doing that in his movie. The most comic booky his movie gets are a couple of accurate costumes and the flaming logo when he blows up all those cars. War Zone was something else, I loved it. Also hey look, it's me on the Discord at the end there!
Yeah, I do suspect there were initial discussions about making Ray's movie a sequel (RIP, Ray). Would be interesting to know what made them change course and why they seemed to intentionally move away from the origin for Jane's Punisher. Perhaps it was due to Jane's origin being so off from the comics. To have his family killed at a beach house and to have only one son were some odd choices for Jane's movie. It seemed Ray's movie was more focused on being comic accurate, tbh.
While it's not official, there's the minimovie with Thomas Jane playing a NYC based Punisher. It's one of the best LA Punisher appeances and closer to what was originally planned for his film. That could be combined with the "cameo" to make #5
I figured it was the Punisher from Warzone cause they had his rpg and there was that notorious scene in Warzone where he shoots a guy doing parkour also I imagined it was Fassbender Magneto that got killed by Cassandra Nova
Yeah, sure seemed like that rpg was meant to make us think of the Warzone scene where he blows that dude out of the sky mid air. Really a bummer we lost Ray, because I’m sure he would’ve been up for a cameo in the movie. I also agree that Fassbender would be the most likely magneto to have been killed by Cassandra. Excellent feedback!
Wayne Knight made such a great Micro! Lieberman is honestly my fav punisher character, so hoping somehow they'll find a spot for him in the multiverse somewhere, because I think Eben is going to be busy with the Thing for a while!
I agree...Micro is such a fantastic character and Knight really did him justice. Hope we do indeed get another Micro in DD: Born Again. Frank needs his man in the chair!
I'm a big punisher fan. Even with the overuse of his logo, he reminds me of the old death wish movies I've seen with my dad Here's hoping born again is good 🙏 Also, great video, dude !
That’s a great point about the Death Wish movies! I had forgotten all about those, but those are just like the punisher movies. Yeah, I can’t wait to see Bernthal back again as the punisher. And thank you so much for the positive feedback on the vid. Really appreciate it!
Good point...it did seem odd that no one knew he was an FBI agent undercover. But it certainly did make an incredible narrative throughline for the movie!
When I see Wayne Knight I think of Space Jam haha. I really need to watch Warzone, I keep hearing it's having based on the Garth Ennis run of Punisher MAX.
Great point! Yeah, Space Jam is another awesome Wayne Knight movie. And you're correct, the movie is definitely based on the grittier tone of the Punisher MAX series!
Ouuuuu cool video i love this and Nic Cage Ghost Rider was supposed to be heavily featured in The Kang War not sure if theyll continue with that plot tho I never knew Punisher was super comics accurate like this i gotta go back now and watch those again The major question is who is the 5th Punisher 🤔 YES PLEASE COVER MUTANT X one of my favorite shows youre working overtime
@@AbitofEverything4Upls do the mutant x vid! I don't rant about it because a lot of ppl don't onow about it but it has a good aesthetic and it answers a lot of questions
As a life long punisher fan of comics since 80’s, I really LOVE war zone, it’s really slept on in punishers history, it’s a shame cause I feel like with a slightly higher budget, couple actors swapped out for better, it could have been like “Logan” quality punisher movie, i mean bernthal is def #1 now, but awesome is my #2 live action adaption
I agree… Warzone was a lot better than I thought it would be. Honestly my only issue was that the actor playing Jigsaw was a little too cheesy for me, but the make up was fantastic on him and the movie overall was really good. Had a lot of fun breaking it down for this video!
I know people might dislike it, but I've always been one to see Ray Stevenson Punisher in the same universe as not only Nic Cage Ghost Rider (not just because of Marvel Knights and Sony, but also how they're in line with each other with the exaggerate campy and dark aspects), but also in Andrew Garfield Spider-Man, Tom Hardy Venom, Miles Teller Fantastic Four and James McAvoy X-Men universes, which would make Ray Stevenson Punisher be from the same universe as Ryan Reynolds Deadpool nowadays and why Russian and that AT4 were in the movie, as well as Channing Tatum Gambit and Dafne Keen X-23, so if they were to bring more of these, they would already be in the same universe. Chris Evans Human Torch, Wesley Snipes Blade and Jennifer Garner Elektra are all from the old 2000s universe.
That's a really cool way to look at it. Yeah, I love that idea that the MCU isn't the only connected universe out there and that those early characters formed a connected universe as well!
I feel like the rocket launcher that Blade uses is from Ray Stevenson's Punisher because of how brutal his version is and he seems like the only one to use one, also I feel like Ray Stevenson would have liked to come back to do it and I would not be surprised if at some point it was in the script had he been able to be in the movie a reference to him playing the one character in the Thor movies as well as Punisher. As for the fifth one there are so many different versions from shows, games and comics that it would be hard to tell which one fits the best.
Oh wow...that's so hard to pick. I liked aspects of each one. I guess I felt that Jane's Punisher was my favorite. Some of the jokes were abit off, but overall I really liked his approach to the character. But I also liked Dolph and Ray's versions as well.
Can you add What If Immersive Story to timeline spreadsheet, i know there's controversy if its canon but it has for sure been some kind of Marvel Studios tie-in media
Good question...so the catch is that it involves not just a branch off the sacred timeline, as that would be fine, but it even goes so far as to say that they go outside Loki's tree itself to wage that final boss battle. That seems to make it impossible to include even as a branch off the sacred timeline, tbh. I hope that Feige will give us a clear direction on the game and how he views it. It's a really cool game, but it just seems to break so much canon along the way.
I swear there was a reference to the classic Thor and Captain America because I saw a shield and helmet that looked more classic. I dunno if it was a classic comic reference or a classic movie and tv show reference. Just an observation I made.
It was just before Wolverine and Deadpool fight after being sent to the void. I'm going to try and find the scene to see if I can spot it. @@AbitofEverything4U
Literally took me less than a minute. It's at the 22 second mark in a video titled Deadpool vs Wolverine Full Fight 4k uploaded by Buggo. @@AbitofEverything4U
Good point...yeah, the level of violence in Ray's movie is right up there with the Punisher show. The overall fights are more brutal in the Netflix show, but the raw violence is still pretty intense in Ray's movie (RIP, Ray).
I wish Netflix punishers jigsaw looked more like the war zones. Netflix fumbled jigsaw hard. And I love the Netflix show and really wanna see it continue
Yeah, other than the over-the-top acting by Jigsaw in the War Zone movie, I thought they did a much better job with the Jigsaw character than they did in the Netflix show. I never liked that Netflix version very much. ofc, beyond than that, the Netflix Punisher is fantastic!
1)well, the 5th punisher , dp was referencing was from a one shot movie that's available in YT is THE PUNISHER:FIRST ROUND ,where punisher kills kingpin goons and fights THE WOLVERINE. 2)Punisher actor jon is canon to the mcu,so is his character & Armor wars is greenlit , give us punisher in war machine suit!! and that would be true PUNISHER:WAR ZONE moment across the net and fandom!!
Is the 1989 Punisher movie any good? I've never seen it. I think it's more likely Deadpool is rounding up but these animated versions are also possible I suppose. Kind of cool that the 80s movie actually gave a date though granted that could be the date they were filming since it says 1988. Marvel Knights wouldn't have just been an early Midnight Suns but in general an early MCU when you think about it because interconnected universe. Having seen the Ray Stevenson version quite recently before DP&W released on the server (I was streaming it) while it wasn't THE BEST thing I've seen it was still pretty fun. The final act of the movie was a joy in fact to watch. I would say as far as he four, five and six year stuff ... six years ago his family was unalived. Five years ago he begun Punishing. And finally four years ago is when the he landed on the FBI radar.
Good question about Dolph's movie. I do think it's worth a watch... it isn't great, but it isn't bad either. Dolph played the Punisher almost like he was on drugs the whole time, which is odd. But some of the fight scenes are really good, because he did alot of his own stunts. And yeah, that computer date could indeed be the date it was filmed, but since there's nothing else to go off, it seems like it's all we have. And good point about the Marvel Knights being an early MCU. Would have been cool to see a big team-up move with those characters!
Yeah, the actor playing Jigsaw was very annoying, but if you can get past him, I really enjoyed Ray's portrayal of the Punisher (RIP, Ray!) as well as seeing so many characters pulled from the comics. And that final fight scene was pretty epic!
Quick question, is there just one TVA for the whole multiverse or is it just for the MCU 616? I know during the Loki show this was a big question, but after Deadpool and Wolverine it can be assumed it’s just 1 TVA for the whole multiverse, since they have insight to not just different branches but completely different trees such as 10005, but I believe that’s a problem. I personally agree with you with the theory that Loki didn’t create the multiverse, it just allowed the branches and what ifs to grow and exist (and create incursions with prior existing universes after destroying the loom) instead of pruning, but if there was just one TVA before destroying the loom then that means there where no other trees at all, everything was pruned before Loki, so now I’m confused since Deadpool made me believe there is just one TVA, but again, if that was true then that means the Multiverse was in fact created after Loki Season 2 (not just what ifs but Tobey, Andrew, 838,10005, paint universe etc) what do u think about this?
Great question! So my theory is that there is only one TVA, but while the loom was in place they could only view the 616 universe and its branches. Once the loom was destroyed and Loki created his tree, this opened up the TVA to be able to view the entire multiverse via their tech. So now they monitor all of the different universes across the multiverse. I hope we get more confirmation of this when Fantastic Four arrives, as it seems to be set in a totally different universe. Fingers crossed it all becomes more clear soon!
@@AbitofEverything4U So the TVA was created by the 616 Kang FOR the 616 universe? I actually like this theory, since it makes He who remains idea of locking away the 616 universe from the rest of the multiverse actually make sense. Thank u
I would definitely recommend watching Mutant X! That Series is really good!! And it lasted 3 long seasons! Unfortunately it ends in a cliffhanger. So keep that in mind in case you watch it! I would really like it if in some form of media whether it's in comic book form, animation, or live action that someone gives that show a proper conclusion! It deserves it! Even if it is similar to how WB and DC comics finally gave the 90's Flash series a proper finish during the CW's Crisis on Infinite Earths crossover event! Mutant X deserves a proper conclusion! Especially after that series cliffhanger!
@@AbitofEverything4U Apparently at the time it was airing, it was a huge hit. Nowadays, from the clips I've seen, we'd probably put it quality wise on the same level as Inhumans? Which goes to show how much superhero TV evolved in just one decade, because this show ended in 2004, and by 2015 we already had stuff like Daredevil and Jessica Jones. Yeah, Mutant X and Man-Thing seem to be the only post-Blade live-action things you've yet to cover so I can't wait to see videos on both.
I agree, it is really amazing how quality has improved over the years in the superheroes genre. Definitely looking forward to checking the show amount!
I think the Punisher mentioned in Deadpool and Wolverine is the Ray Stevenson one based on different comments i seen about that topic, but i do like to think Dolph and Thomas versions of the punisher did get pruned at some put and since i heard their universes are more realistic i think it would be funny and interesting to imagine their reaction to the void. Sadly i don't think they'll last that long there.
Great feedback! I agree, it sure seems like Ray's Punisher is being hinted at in the movie (RIP, Ray!) but I also agree that it's likely that all of the Punishers are canon, especially with references like the Russian being one of the villains working for Cassandra.
@@AbitofEverything4U Absolutely, I don't know why but I have a fun and silly headcanon that either Dolph or Thomas Punisher hanged out with a version of Blackjack O'Hara in the void. Hey since we know Nova was going to be in a early version of infinity war do you think he would have gone with Tony to space or stayed on earth and helped Steve?
@@AbitofEverything4U Yeah, it would have been cool if he was in infinity war and endgame though I can imagine a different timeline where he was present during those movies.
Yeah, I think that would be awesome. It would be a chance to bring back every actor that’s ever played Mr. fantastic… Maybe even the actor that did the 1994 movie could return!
Punisher is my top 3 comic character. Wolverine, Spiderman then him. And I'm glad these are now acknowledged to be in the multiverse. But honestly no one has gotten him completely right until Jon bernthal. Dolph I've only seen one. Uneventful. Don't remember anything about it. But no skull so very unfaithful imo. Thomas Jane, the acting was pretty good. Fun movie. Tonally idk if it's the hardcore punisher I'm used to. Then war zone i may look at it on rewatch in a different light knowing the main actor passed. But it wasn't for me. Tonally style and action wise was pretty spot on to the max/ marvel knights series. Acting wise idk ... The villain was so over the top goofy and honestly not well acted that it was hard to take the entire movie serious. It's like if you watch the dark Knight and joker was Jim Carey the mask performance. Very gory and the darks and shadows were comic accurate perfect. But man that acting. But bernthal is where it's at. Perfect performance. And the story was great. Hope he focuses more on criminals this next season because for his series he mostly took on crooked cops and military. But sure punisher those that deserve punishment. Just because they are the " good guys" doesn't mean they are above the law. But punisher is about taking out gangs and the mob so hopefully that's next.
Fantastic analysis of the different Punisher iterations. I agree with everything you said. If not for Jigsaw's actor, I'd consider Ray's movie (RIP, Ray) to be on par with Bernthal's series. But man, that dude really drove me crazy in the movie. So yeah, Bernthal is soooooo good as the Punisher. Can't wait to see his return in DD: Born Again!
A likely possibility is Deadpool just rounded up to 5 to make it sound like a bigger number but wasn't meaning to be accurate, tbh. But if there is 5, then perhaps it's the animated version, ig.
Great question! The reason I added the type column is so that you can filter the list down to what you want to view. So if you don’t want to see flashbacks, for instance, then you can remove that from the filter. You can filter online, but it creates a temporary view in that case. Or you can download the document and then it’s a lot easier to filter.
Is a Multiverse... so technically every Punisher is canon, but my favorite is the Punisher from the Netflix series. 3:15 Probably yes, with "Into/across/beyond The Spider-Verse" every animated Spider-Man is a part of the Sony Spider-Verse, and the Spider-Verse is a part of the Marvel Cinematic Multiverse, so the Animated Punisher is technically canon.
I wanna say as vague as they was I believe all are canon but maybe the ray Steven’s one in dead, since his actor is actually dead, there is no way to bring him back properly
Do you think it's really possible that Thomas Jane's Punisher is in the same universe as Sam Raimi's Spider-Man? Also I don't think Deadpools line 100% connects all those punishers because it was just a reference to all those movies existing similar to the Logan references in No Good Deed and Deadpool 2.
I love the idea of Jane's Punisher being in Raimi's Spider-Man universe, but I don't feel it's a strong enough connection to establish it, since I'm not even sure it was planned for him to appear. It almost seems like his stunt double just showed up on set...which is pretty clever of him, tbh. But I do feel that there were enough references in the DP&W movie to tie things back to the Punisher movies. The Rocket Launcher, the Russian, Elektra mentioning the Punisher, and ofc Deadpool's line about there being 5 Punishers all seem to indicate they were trying to tie the movie into the multiverse. It seems DP&W really did want to honor all the earlier movies that paved the way to the eventual MCU.
Good job.i feel all 3 punisher films worth watching.jane film is best especilly extended version which i own on dvd.war zone i admit is most comic accurte version.i always felt it took place in year it is released.i feel jane version is more likely to have been one killed in void as that was more popular on and goes with tribute to marvel legacy D & w was going for.war zone defently a reboot. the only preblade marvel films i feel which could be canon to multiverse are punisher 89 and nick fury tv movie.btw those 2 along with hul tv show & films only watchable marvel projects before blade in 98.
Good theories on which Punisher was being referenced in the movie. And yeah, not too many films before Blade were watchable. Some of those early ones are really, really bad. lol!
I'm just not sure Wade's joke about 5 is enough to canonize all of them. How far off is that from saying the DC references in DP2 make the DCEU canon to the Marvel multiverse?
Good points! Yeah, Deadpool is definitely an unreliable narrator. But I think the Punisher reference is more likely to be reliable as we do see the rocket launcher and Elektra confirms it was from the Punisher. We also see the Russian who was a Punisher villain. So at least for me, those things combined with Deadpool's joke make it seem more likely we can trust the Punisher movies are canon. But all that said, I agree with you that it's definitely up for debate and each fan will likely form their own opinions on it. Thanks for the feedback on the vid. Really appreciate it!
I think that's a very fair position to take. Granted, putting him in that otherwise outlandish looking shirt seems to indicate they wanted us to think of the Russian from Jane's movie, but I agree that it's not 100% confirmation. Thanks for watching the vid and sharing your feedback. Really appreciate it!
Check out the Google Drive timeline documents: drive.google.com/drive/u/0/folders/1R_PrexMkTjYpQAraxlhzs2U5EPJEPioc.
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It's most likely The punisher from punisher war zone they use his rocket launcher the same one he used to kill the parkour guy
@@DjWasteland Great point!
In my opinion dead Punisher in D&W is Ray Stevenson, here's my points:
- Ray is only Punisher that used Rocket Launcher in the movie
- Ray Stevenson is dead (RIP) so writers could by killing him off making tribute or dark humor joke
- He is only live action Punisher i think will have any willing to work together in the Resistance
- others are living in two realistic worlds to survive that long in the void to join Resistance, Stevenson is the only one who is livining in comic booky enough universe
Very good reasoning. Yeah, I definitely think the rocket launcher came from Ray's Punisher (RIP). I do wonder if the Russian was also an indication that Jane's Punisher was pruned at some point, but the film definitely seems to lean towards Ray as the main Punisher being honored in the film.
@AbitofEverything4U yeah maybe both or even all three was pruned, but i don't think Dolph and Jane lived very long with all wierd things usually happening here
Good point… yeah they probably didn’t last long.
I thought it was punisher 89 that got killed off screen
@@SuperSprawa3honestly, those probably either got kept in the dark through direct tva intervention, or were just killed outright.
They would just be easier to kill than to prune. Also I think just about *any* Punisher is clever enough to find a way out and "punish" the tva for pissing him off.
Although there's a chance he's recruitable, depending on when in his timeline they approach him.
Imagine a struck team of nothing BUT Franks. He could work with himself. That bent morality and love of war of his are an interdimensional constant
2:25 Deadpool's word choice of "like 5" means he's not even sure if that is the correct amount. Not that it matters in that moment because he's just simply conveying there were a lot of punishers and elektra didn't specify which one because she does not have knowledge other actors have played him like deadpool does
Well said...yeah, I really think Deadpool was spit balling the number 5, but on the other hand, it's fun to try to figure out what the 5 would be, if we were to talk him literally.
Yeah that's pretty much it
@@mbii7667 Agreed!
My bet is it was Ray Stevenson's punisher. He would have heavy fire like a rocket launcher. He's now dead, but in my mind, it's a nice mini tribute.
I also think it was referring to Ray Stevenson. One of his most famous Punisher scenes was shooting that parkour guy in mid air with a rocket launcher..
I was thinking maybe early on he could’ve been part of the movie, but after his death they removed his cameo/role but left a tribute to him in the form of that reference. No clue if that’s actually what happened, but it makes his movie feel more like the intended reference to me (as well as the rocket launcher the comment above me mentioned)
I agree, that Rocket Launcher had to be a tribute to Ray Stevenson. RIP, Ray!
I assumed it was Thomas Jane since The Russian showed up in the final battle but the rocket launcher is more of a Stevenson thing to do.
@@Aaron-zt5ee Yep, my thought as well. So that's why I suspect they are canonizing all the Punisher versions. Would be a nice way to honor them all.
I like to believe that's Ray Stevenson Punisher's AT4. Actor passed away, he was last in a Star Wars Disney Plus show recently and never got his due in the character, so I'd say this was the tribute he deserved. He would've been a great addition to the cast in 'Deadpool & Wolverine' for his last role. RIP Ray Stevenson, you deserved better.
I agree...I think that's a wonderful tribute to Ray (RIP!) for them to have been pointing at his version of the Punisher with the inclusion of the Rocket Launcher. Excellent theory!
Fucking Disney Star Wars ruins everything good in this world
@@MediaGhost_ Actually, Ray was great in Ahsoka. Really bummed we won't get to see his character return. RIP, Ray!
I can’t wait for Secret Wars when Doctor Strange makes a portal with Dolph Lundgren meditating in his birthday suit on the other side
lol! Dr. Strange be like "oh my, so sorry to bother you...we'll find someone else"!
I love these timeline videos, the fact all these worlds still exist is so cool
I agree...the timelines are so interesting to me, and it's all the more cool since these movies are now tied into the multiverse and are directly referenced through DP&W. Love that so much!
"Hello MCU fans..."
Such an iconic opening line that always brings a smile to my face
And a very hearty Hello to you as well! Thanks for watching the vid!!!
@@CruzaderKnight Thanks! 😊
I love it!
@coolerkerl8469 Thanks!
Nic Cage's Ghost Rider was in concept art, and Ryan Reynolds did confirm they talked with him. So he may come back for Secret Wars. Especially since Ryan didn't really say much other than Nic was talked to, which is unusual since Ryan is VERY talkative.
Yeah, it sounds like Cage was really close to appearing. Really hope we get him in Secret Wars!
@@AbitofEverything4U It would have been crazy if he also appeared, hey there is also concept art of Wade in a comic book looking universe with the og 6 avengers now that would have been insane and sadly spoiled on the internet. Hope we see Cage and this comic universe in secret wars.
@@lawznwdsc Yep, would be great to see him again!
How do you not have more subscribers my man? Best mcu channel on UA-cam!
Thanks! Really appreciate the support and positive feedback. I'll keep at it as I love doing this!
The 5th could be a cheeky wink at Gerard Butler’s Law Abiding Citizen that was basically The Punisher without calling him The Punisher.
Very creative theory for the 5th Punisher!
The Jigsaw in Warzone was so much better than the one in season 2 on Netflix. Good lord that one felt like his only direction was "I don't know, something like Joker I guess?"
I agree...I liked the Jigsaw in Warzone alot better. His acting was abit over the top, but the character was handled alot better and his make-up was peak!
the joker? he was nothing like the joker.
@@plasticweapon Yeah, I'm not sure what his direction was for the character. I just thought it was bad either way. He was so over the top at times.
I appreciate how much work you put into all of this. It's clear that you care. Thank you.
That's so nice of you to say. Really appreciate all your awesome support of the channel. Thanks so much!!!
Great breakdown of the many different timelines of these different versions of Punisher.
Pretty crazy how many punisher movies there have been. It was a lot of fun to watch them all and compare them!
The 5th Punisher could be the Punisher from the Thomas Jane movie tie in game, since the game is a different continuity from the film despite being Thomas Jane, due to Punisher being a Vietnam veteran, and characters like Daredevil, Kingpin, Nick Fury, Black Widow and even Iron Man showing up.
Very cool theory! I hadn't considered the game, but that's a great suggestion!
"Skull (2020) - Stuntman Eric Linden, who worked on the MCU / Netflix series The Punisher as a stunt coordinator, second unit director, and stunt double for Jon Bernthal, directed and portrayed the Punisher in the short fan-film Skull, produced in association with FXitinPost."
This is my guess for Punisher #5.
Oh wow...now that's a very cool theory!
Yooooo, I'm famous! I'm in the screenshot at the end lmao.
Well thanks for covering this topic! Helped me out alot making my ultimate timeline.
Your question was awesome and helped me decide to do the video. Thanks for being part of the Discord!
@@AbitofEverything4U no, thank you for making these awesome videos!!
spoon gang
@@misterspoon Thanks! I really love the MCU and I hope that shows in the vids!
As someone obsessed with the more obscure Marvel movie entries, I was so happy that Dolph Lundgren's Punisher got mentioned by proxy haha
I agree...I love the obscure movies like Dolph's Punisher. It was alot of fun watching it and breaking it down!
The 80s punisher could work with the Incredible Hulk show timeline
Oh, now that's a very good point! Yeah, he would definitely fit right in!
Both universes are stated to be differents
But hey is a good theory join these Marvel heroes from the pre Blade era.
There are at least 4 of them who inicially meant to be partw of the same continuity.
The Captain America from 1979, the 1978 dr strange, the 70s spidey and Lou Ferrigno Hulk and his TV Movies wich include 3 other heroes
Daredevil, Thor and some kinda of Black widow called Jasmine.
The Punisher Movie was made by New World Studios
These years New World television also made the Hulk TV Movies
Also in one scene they show the Punisher daughters using spiderman pajamas
At this point, the 70s Spider-Man should be known to the point of having merchandise made based on him like in Into the Spiderverse where there are Spiderman comics and video games.
@@Mr_Wayne2012 Those would have been some cool connections!
I love how one small little detail can give tons of possibilities
ikr? Even small stuff like that gives us fans lots to talk about and theorize about!
So powerful to see Thomas Jane die in the Doomsday comic imitation of RDJ Doom in the TVA. You recruit a guy who has blood and very convincing to know a guy has access for justice and able to defend any guy after told why he's there. He had no powers but would make sense to get these useful information nodded.
I loved the Thomas Jane Punisher. I thought he was awesome in that role!
I think Ray Stevenson's Punisher is the one that fell. It would make it the easiest the handwave the off-screen death due to the unfortunate demise of Ray Stevenson, and his version was most comic book of the Punishers, so that rocket they used was more likely from him.
Yeah, I think your right about that rocket. Sure seems like something his Punisher would have used. Great point!
Soooo glad you covered this thank you Joof, Punisher 1989 watch party was a great watch in your discord, no shade to Punisher 2008, it was a cool dark action film with a totally bizarre villain (interesting choice lol!) & brilliant casting with Ray but the 1989 felt more what i expect & want from pre 2010s comic book films
I agree...it was alot of fun to watch those older Punisher movies. Man, Dolph's movie being 1989 is so wild. That even pre-dated Blade!
kinda unrelated but i just wanted to say I'm from brazil and your videos helped me a lot in learning english
your videos are amazing, it's very great to see your effort into this channel dude
Oh wow… That’s so cool to hear that. Thank you for sharing that.
I love Brazil. I visited for two weeks a few years back. I really enjoyed it!
Plot twist: The Russian is a variant of Where's Waldo?
lol! Niiiiiice!
Oh, timeline videos, my favorite
Awesome! Thanks for watching!!!
I don't think anything Deadpool says can be taken as confirmation that something is canon to the multiverse - by the same logic, the DCEU would be canon because he references that. Wade clearly knows stuff about movies that a character inside the MCU shouldn't know.
Good points! Yeah, Deadpool is definitely an unreliable narrator. But I think the Punisher reference is more likely to be reliable as we do see the rocket launcher and Elektra confirms it was from the Punisher. We also see the Russian who was a Punisher villain. So at least for me, those things combined with Deadpool's joke make it seem more likely we can trust the Punisher movies are canon. But all that said, I agree with you that it's definitely up for debate and each fan will likely form their own opinions on it. Thanks for the feedback on the vid. Really appreciate it!
The DCEU... what could have been 😢
@@mbii7667 ikr? Such a bummer.
from what I understand Marvel considers Movies, Tv, Animation, Comics, and Games all to be part of a shared Multiverse
@@xxx_rotfd_xiii_xii3619 Agreed...although the canonicity of the games is trickier. I don't think, for instance, that the What If game is considered canon, as it goes against alot of what was established in the What If series. It's a very cool game, but Feige hasn't stated that it's canon at this point and so I suspect it will remain non-canon.
I really love that you make sure to go through all of this content. I’d love a man thing video and also I’d love a Modok/Hit Monkey video too. Mutant X and more older stuff would be super cool to see as well.
But another idea that you’ve occasionally touched on but I’d love to see more of, are the games. There’s so many underrated marvel games and questions about canon too (like is Marvel vs Capcom in the 90s marvel universe) that would be super cool to see as well.
Great video either way
Yeah, I may need to do a video on the games at some point. It's hard to get screen caps from the games as well as hard to find good breakdowns to use as reference. But I suspect if I dig hard enough, I can find some good info on the games. Great suggestion!
@@AbitofEverything4Uthe biggest issue I have with those games is research as well. Walkthroughs on UA-cam might be your best bet. Personally I’d love to play them all, but the time commitment for that is crazy huge. Unfortunately these aren’t well documented (more reason why you should do it lol)
i loved the video! I honestly didnt know there were so god damn many😭
Ikr? It’s crazy how many punisher movies there were!
Here's my take: I don't think any of the Punisher films are canon or at least necessary to watch for the Multiverse Saga yet, cause no characters from any of them have popped up at this point. Perhaps we could see Tom Jane's Punisher show up in Secret Wars? I think that'd be dope and they could have him share a moment with Bernthal's version.
Exactly! It was just a meta reference by deadpool about all the different actors.
I think that's a very fair position to take. I definitely agree that we haven't seen any of the 3 earlier Punisher's directly referenced. But I do think the movie is hinting at them via the Russian, the rocket launcher and the Punisher mention. So in the end, I think it will likely be a decision each fan makes and thus I figured the timeline breakdowns were good to have out there for those that consider the movies canon. Really appreciate you sharing your perspective on it. Thanks so much!
I bet the four years line was a typo in the closed caption because the structure of budansky’s sentence would make more sense as “for years”
Oh wow...what a great point!
I remember wondering whether Marvel Disney would want to use the Punisher due to the recent politicization of the character in the mainstream so I'm glad they still want to use the character.
I agree...really glad Marvel isn't backing away from the character!
I never thought of that reference cannonizing all Punisher's but now that you brought it up makes sense to me. Also if there is a 5th one then it could be The 90s Animated Series since they could possibly tie it in to the rest through 97
Yeah, I love that animated series version. So I'd totally be down for that being the 5th one!
I needed something to listen to while I play Jedi Fallen Order, great timing.
Niiiiice! Yeah, I think alot of people treat the vids like a podcast, which is so cool!
Is the game good or nah
@@T0X1C_Demon I was wondering the same.
I hadn't paid much attention to the pre-MCU Punisher films; I was surprised that they have some pretty good story hooks there: "What if a gangster had to team up with the Punisher to save his kid?", "What if the Punisher killed an undercover agent"--both solid ideas, might have to check them out. I had no idea Wayne Knight played Micro! Makes perfect sense for that time.
I wonder if the "five Punishers" line isn't a reference left over from that annoying period when the pre-Marvel Studios MCU TV stuff was being treated as sort of a separate continuity, when the Timeline book was being written and the initial version of the new Daredevil show was being shot. So the five Punishers would have been Dolph Lundgren, Thomas Jane, Ray Stevenson, Jon Bernthal (Netflix), and Jon Bernthal (MCU). Then after the Daredevil reshoots happened and the Netflix shows were added into the Disney+ timeline, no one thought to change the line since it was just a joke. But I'm probably just reading too much into this. 😄
That's a really good theory on where the number 5 came from. Nice call! And I agree, the plots of both of those Dolph and Stevenson Punisher movies had some very interesting angles to them. Jane's Punisher movie was also pretty creative in its plot as well.
All 4 and the one from Spiderman The animated series because that show is connected to X-Men 97 which is kinda connected to the MCU.
Excellent choice for the 5th spot!
I'd gotta disagree to "X-Men '97 canon to the MCU" and no don't bring the multiverse into this because the show did not even referenced the MCU. The unofficial 90's Marvel Animated Universe and the MCU are two separate universe and there will never be a crossover between these universe unless Marvel wants to have a crossover between this universe.
@@Deadpool-mcu2024 I’m referring to the Watcher being in the show in the background.
@@Deadpool-mcu2024 I'm still holding out hope for a crossover, but I agree, it does seem unlikely.
@@joy4themightydonutchainsaw620 Good point about the Watcher!
I didn’t know about the 1989 film, great video.
Yeah, I had never seen that movie before making this video. So I’ve really been enjoying these deep dives into the early Marvel movies!
Seeing that X-men 97 shares a universe with spiderman animated, I’d put my money in that universes punisher.
Yeah, I think that Punisher was great...and you're right, he is indeed connected to the overall MCU via X-Men 97. Great point!
On your spreadsheet its still written that The Punisher takes place in 1989 instead of 1988
D'oh! Thanks for catching that. Got it fixed!
i also think it could have been ray stevenson because he was the only punisher who used a rocket launcher. dolph, used guns and other weapons like swords, tom jane was guns, knife, paper cutter, arrow and swiss army knife, and it can't be jon because he's revealed to be alive in daredevil born again.
Great point about Ray (RIP) and the rocket launcher. Yeah, I have to wonder if maybe they were trying to refer to all three of them. The rocket launcher refers to Ray, the Russian refers to Thomas, and the mention of five different punisher pulls in Dolph.
@@AbitofEverything4U , kevin nash saw the pic of the russian in deadpool and wolverine, and says that's not my character, so it could have been a different variant.
Great point! It’s definitely a variant of the Russian. But I’m still guessing that he was in there to make us think of Thomas Jane’s punisher.
@@AbitofEverything4U , i agree as well. also you were right about warzone being brutal. frank freakin punched a guy's head into mush. i was like shocked.
That scene was epic… And I’ve been scarred for life. Lol!
Jon Bernthal is the definitive Punisher. So glad he's back in Born Again. It needs to lead to a new series for him!
100% agree...Bernthal mastered that character. His portrayal is perfection!
Taking a look at your current spreadsheet, here are my current thoughts:
- Separate out the current revived Marvel Animated Universe into its own label apart from "MV - Animated".
- Why is Hit Monkey and Moongirl & Devil Dinosaur listed under "MV - Show" show, when they are animated?
- Same with the Lego movies, I feel they should get a category of their own just for easier filtering.
- Maybe its the Sonic fan in me, but I REALLY want to sort some of these projects into eras. Like, I feel weird that Avengers Assemble is in the same category as Spider-Man and his Amazing Friends. Here are my preferred groupings. Incoming list of lists:
Marvel Animated Universe (MAU)
1. X-Men: The Animated Series (1992) [Season 1, 13 Episodes]
2. X-Men: The Animated Series (1993) [Season 2, 13 Episodes]
3. X-Men: The Animated Series (1994) [Season 3, 19 Episodes]
4. Iron Man (1994) [Season 1, 13 Episodes]
5. Fantastic Four (1994) [Season 1, 13 Episodes]
6. Spider-Man (1994) [Season 1, 13 Episodes]
7. X-Men: The Animated Series (1995) [Season 4, 21 Episodes]
8. Spider-Man (1995) [Season 2, 14 Episodes]
9. Iron Man (1995) [Season 2, 13 Episodes]
10. Fantastic Four (1995) [Season 2, 13 Episodes]
11. Spider-Man (1996) [Season 3, 14 Episodes]
12. X-Men: The Animated Series (1996) [Season 5, 10 Episodes]
13. The Incredible Hulk (1996) [Season 1, 13 Episodes]
14. Spider-Man (1997 [Season 4, 11 Episodes]
15. The Incredible Hulk (1997) [Season 2, 8 Episodes]
16. Spider-Man (1997) [Season 5, 13 Episodes]
17. _?? Silver Surfer (1998) [13 Episodes] ??_
18. _?? The Avengers: United They Stand (1999) [13 Episodes] ??_
19. _?? Spider-Man Unlimited (1999) [13 Episodes] ??_
20. X-Men '97 (2024) [10 Episodes]
Legacy Marvel Animated Universe (LMAU)
1. The Marvel Super Heroes [65 Episodes]
2. The Fantastic Four (1967) [20 Episodes]
3. Spider-Man (1967-1970) [3 Seasons, 52 Episodes]
4. The New Fantastic Four (1978) [13 Episodes]
5. Fred and Barney Meet the Thing (1979) [13 Episodes]
6. Spider-Woman (1979) [16 Episodes]
7. Dracula: Sovereign of the Damned (1980)
8. Monster of Frankenstein (1981)
9. Spider-Man (1981) [26 Episodes]
10. Spider-Man and His Amazing Friends (1981-1983) [3 Seasons, 24 Episodes]
11. The Incredible Hulk (1982) [13 Episodes]
12. Solarman (1988)
13. X-Men: Pryde of the X-Men (1989)
Extended Marvel Animated Universe (EMAU)
1. X-Men: Evolution (2000-2003) [4 Seasons, 52 Episodes]
2. Spider-Man: The New Animated Series (2003) [13 Episodes]
3. Fantastic Four: World's Greatest Heroes (2006) [26 Episodes]
4. The Spectacular Spider-Man (2008-2009) [2 Seasons, 26 Episodes]
5. Wolverine and the X-Men (2009) [26 Episodes]
6. Marvel Superheroes: What the--?! (2009-2017) [110 Shorts]
7. Iron Man: Armored Adventures (2009-2012) [2 Seasons, 52 Episodes]
8. The Super Hero Squad Show (2009 -2011) [2 Seasons, 52 Episodes]
9. Black Panther (2010) [6 Episodes]
10. Marvel Anime (2010) [12 Episodes]
11. Thor & Loki: Blood Brothers (2011) [4 Episodes]
12. The Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes (2010-2012) [2 Seasons, 52 Episodes]
13. Ultimate Spider-Man (2012-2017) [4 Seasons, 104 Episodes]
14. Avengers Assemble (2013-2019) [5 Seasons, 127 Episodes]
15. Hulk and the Agents of S.M.A.S.H. (2013-2015) [2 Seasons, 52 Episodes]
16. Marvel Disk Wars: The Avengers (2014) [51 Episodes]
17. Guardians of the Galaxy (2015-2019) [3 Seasons, 79 Episodes]
18. Rocket & Groot (2017) [12 Episodes]
19. Ant-Man (2017) [6 Episodes]
20. Marvel Future Avengers (2017-2018) [2 Seasons, 39 Episodes]
21. Spider-Man (2017-2020) [3 Seasons, 58 Episodes]
22. Marvel Super Hero Adventures (2017-2020) [4 Seasons, 40 Episodes
23. Big Hero 6: The Series (2017-2021) [3 Seaspms. 56 Episodes]
24. M.O.D.O.K. (2021) [10 Episodes]
25. Baymax! (2022) [6 Episodes]
26. Spidey and His Amazing Friends (2021-2024) [3 Seasons, 70 Episodes]
27. Hit-Monkey (2021-2024) [2 Seasons, 20 Episodes]
28. Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur (2023-2024) [2 Seasons, 30 Episodes]
Marvel Animated Cinematic Universe (MACU)
1. Ultimate Avengers (2006)
2. Ultimate Avengers 2 (2006)
3. The Invincible Iron Man (2007)
4. Doctor Strange: The Sorcerer Supreme (2007)
5. Next Avengers: Heroes of Tomorrow (2008)
6. Hulk Versus (2009)
7. Planet Hulk (2010)
8. Thor: Tales of Asgard (2011)
9. Iron Man: Rise of Technovore (2013)
10. Iron Man & Hulk: Heroes United (2013)
11. Avengers Confidential: Black Widow & Punisher (2014)
12. Iron Man & Captain America: Heroes United (2014)
13. Marvel Super Hero Adventures: Frost Fight! (2015)
14. Hulk: Where Monsters Dwell (2016)
Marvel Rising Universe (MRU)
1. Marvel Rising: Initiation (2018) [6 Shorts]
2. Marvel Rising: Secret Warriors (2018)
3. Marvel Rising: Chasing Ghosts (2019)
4. Marvel Rising: Heart of Iron (2019)
5. Marvel Rising: Battle of the Bands (2019)
6. Marvel Rising: Operation Shuri (2019)
7. Marvel Rising: Playing with Fire (2019)
Lego Marvel Universe (LMU)
1. Lego Marvel Super Heroes: Maximum Overload (2013)
2. Lego Marvel Super Heroes: Avengers Reassembled (2015)
3. Lego Marvel Super Heroes - Guardians of the Galaxy: The Thanos Threat (2017)
4. Lego Marvel Super Heroes - Black Panther: Trouble in Wakanda (2018)
5. Lego Marvel Spider-Man: Vexed by Venom (2019)
6. Lego Marvel Avengers: Climate Conundrum (2020)
7. Lego Marvel Avengers: Loki in Training (2021)
8. Lego Marvel Avengers: Time Twisted (2022)
9. Lego Marvel Avengers: Code Red (2023)
Legacy Marvel Cinematic Universe (LMCU)
1. Captain America (1944) [15 Episodes]
2. Spidey Super Stories (1974-1977) [3 Seasons, 29 Episodes]
3. Spider-Man (1977) [Pilot Movie]
4. The Incredible Hulk (1977-1982) [5 Seasons, 80 Episodes]
5. The Amazing Spider-Man (1978-1979) [2 Seasons, 13 Episodes]
6. Spider-Man [JP] (1978-1979) [41 Episodes]
7. Dr. Strange (1978)
8. Captain America (1979)
9. Captain America II: Death Too Soon (1979)
10. Howard the Duck (1986)
11. The Incredible Hulk Returns (1988)
12. The Trial of the Incredible Hulk (1989)
13. The Punisher (1989)
14. The Death of the Incredible Hulk (1988)
15. Captain America (1990)
16. Power Pack (1991)
17. The Fantastic Four (1994)
18. Generation X (1996)
19. Nick Fury: Agent of S.H.I.E.L.D. (1998)
Extended Marvel Cinematic Universe (EMCU)
1. Blade (1998)
2. X-Men (2000)
3. Blade II (2002)
4. Spider-Man (2002)
5. Daredevil (2003)
6. X2: X-Men United (2003)
7. Hulk (2003)
8. The Punisher (2004)
9. Spider-Man 2 (2004)
10. Blade: Trinity (2004)
11. Elektra (2005)
12. Man-Thing (2005)
13. Fantastic Four (2005)
14. X-Men: The Last Stand (2006)
15. Blade: The Series (2006) [13 Episodes]
16. Ghost Rider (2007)
17. Spider-Man 3 (2007)
18. Fantastic Four: Rise of the Silver Surfer (2007)
19. Punisher: War Zone (2008)
20. X-Men Origins: Wolverine (2009)
21. X-Men: First Class (2011)
22. Ghost Rider: Spirit of Vengeance (2011)
23. The Amazing Spider-Man (2012)
24. The Wolverine (2013)
25. The Amazing Spider-Man 2 (2014)
26. X-Men: Days of Future Past (2014)
27. Big Hero 6 (2014)
28. Fant4stic (2015)
29. Deadpool (2016)
30. X-Men: Apocalypse (2016)
31. Logan (2016)
32. Deadpool: No Good Deed (2017)
33. Legion (2017-2019) [3 Seasons, 27 Episodes]
34. The Gifted (2017-2019) [2 Seasons, 29 Episodes]
35. Deadpool 2 (2018)
36. Venom (2018)
37. Spider-Man: Into the Spider-Verse (2018)
38. Spider-Ham: Caught in a Ham (2019)
39. X-Men: Dark Phoenix (2019)
40. The New Mutants (2020)
41. Deadpool and Korg React (2021)
42. Venom: Let There Be Carnage (2021)
43. Morbius (2022)
44. The Spider Within: A Spider-Verse Story (2023)
45. Spider-Man: Across the Spider-Verse (2023)
46. Madame Web (2024)
47. Venom: The Last Dance (2024)
48. Kraven the Hunter (2024)
49. Spider-Man: Beyond the Spider-Verse (2025)
Though seeing it all listed out, I can understand why some might just prefer the one large grouping. Even seeing the Extended MCU, I wonder if there is merit to separating the Sony stuff apart from the rest. Also I never decided what to do with Big Hero 6. Ah well, hopefully this is useful to someone.
Very cool suggestions!
1. I added filters for MV - Lego Game and MV - Lego Movie
2. I made Hit Monkey and Moongirl & Devil Dinosaur and M.O.D.O.K. animated, as I agree, those should be listed as animated.
3. I need to think abit more on the breakdown for the Marvel Animated Universe. I agree that there is a distinction that could be added, but I suspect there will be alot of debates on how to categorize those shows, so I'll start up a convo on the discord about it.
Again, excellent suggestions. Really appreciate all your awesome feedback!
As i mentioned on the Discord server, i kinda wonder if Deadpool line of there being 5 Punisher if we were to take that literally and not as a joke or something, what if its a left-over reference to Daredevil Born Again, as lets not forget that originally Born Again was gonna serve as a reboot to the Netflix verse and was supposed to release before Deadpool 3 had the strikes not happened and Jon Bernthal was already part of the cast before the overhaul, so technically speaking that would've made the BA Punisher the fifth iteration of the character even though it would've been the same actor had they decided to stick to their original plans instead of overhauling the show to maintain the canon of the Netflixverse
Great points! Yeah, in a way, there was indeed going to be a second Punisher since it was going to be a reboot in DD: Born Again at the point when the script for DP&W was being written. Love that theory for the 5th Punisher!
Would be cool but the netflix were confirmed canon to the MCU as in real canon.
@@Deadpool-mcu2024 I love that they officially made the Netflix shows canon!
@@AbitofEverything4U Yeah and plus it's THE same actor so it has to be someone else.
@@Deadpool-mcu2024 So glad Bernthal is returning!
I do think all of them are canon, because of the whole multiverse thing, and aside from Ray Stevenson's universe both Thomas Jane and Dolph Lundgren's universe have official universe numbers. If there was gonna be a 5th Punisher out there, assuming if we're taking the "5" literally and counting them based on actors, I'd bet it would be Thomas Jane's stunt double that appeared in Spider Man 2. Not to mention the Raimiverse is connected to the MCU. Sort of a low key confirmation that is suppose to be the Punisher in Spider Man 2. Also I'm not sure if this accurate but I like to think the Russian that appeared in Deadpool and Wolverine is from Ray Stevenson's universe.
Great feedback! Yeah, I think this makes all the iterations of the Punisher canon, which is very cool. Can't wait to see what they do to top DP&W when we get Secret Wars in a few years!
Although Deadpool was most likely joking with his comment about five Punishers, I like the theory that the extra one is referring to Thomas Jane's stunt double in Spider-Man 2.
Yep, would be such a great meta reference if they were referring to his stunt double sneaking in there. Love that he showed up in the movie, even if it was only for a second!
Thats fake
Debunked by Thomas jane Himself to a Magazine in 2005, he even joked about it
There is no Thomas Jane or stunt double there
Raimi never said that
@@Mr_Wayne2012 Oh, we're not saying Raimi said it was planned or intentional. We're just saying you can see the stunt double in the movie very clearly. But it wasn't done at Raimi's request and he might not have even known it happened until after the fact.
@@Mr_Wayne2012 Oh, how interesting...after I left that first comment, I found this article: wegotthiscovered.com/movies/8-best-ever-superhero-movie-crossovers/4/. I guess in the DVD commentary it was specifically mentioned that this was supposed to be the Punisher. I may check the commentary to see if that's correct.
@@AbitofEverything4U I know perfectly well that "they mentioned it in the DVD commentary"
But that is completely false, as in the 3 existing Spider-Man 2 DVD commentary clips, only one of them features Sam Raimi, and he never mentions the Punisher at all.
Someone on UA-cam even uploaded their research on the rumor and posted the 3 DVD commentary tracks, proving that they never mentioned it.
It was just an internet rumor that evolved into that.
Oh that’s right, I keep mistakenly thinking Hasselhoff was Punisher, not Nick Fury! Whoops! 😅
Hasselhoff Punisher would be epic!
I'm a huge MCU fan and because of the people always ask me where one MCU character was during another's movie or why they didn't help. So I was hoping you could make a video covering the whereabouts of each character for each movie and what they were doing instead of helping
What a really interesting idea. Yeah, I’m always thinking to myself “hey, why doesn’t hero XYZ show up to help?” so it would be an fun analysis to see what everyone was doing during each movie or show. That’s a really cool suggestion!
War Zone isn't a sequel to Thomas Jane's movie, but I have to think that it was initially planned to be that way, but was reworked as time went on. Honestly, with just a few tweaks made to either movie, it wouldn't be that much of a stretch to have them connected to one another since Jane's movie is the origin story while War Zone establishes that he's been at this for awhile. The big thing would be more the complete shift in tone which could easily be the result of a different writer or director, etc, which we've already seen in the MCU, so it can work. Because these are comic book movies, they can shift with each iteration and runs they pull from, and given that Frank has been at this for 5 years by the time of War Zone, it's feasible that he could be even more violent and dealing with even crazier folks and wackos than just your typical mafia. One of the big moments for me though was when Frank punched a guy in the face, and literally caved the dude's face in. I don't know if that's scientifically possible without breaking your own hand, but it certainly sets a tone, and Thomas Jane wasn't doing that in his movie. The most comic booky his movie gets are a couple of accurate costumes and the flaming logo when he blows up all those cars. War Zone was something else, I loved it.
Also hey look, it's me on the Discord at the end there!
@@MCLegoboy you got the same thing going on with Hulk and Incredible Hulk.
Yeah, I do suspect there were initial discussions about making Ray's movie a sequel (RIP, Ray). Would be interesting to know what made them change course and why they seemed to intentionally move away from the origin for Jane's Punisher. Perhaps it was due to Jane's origin being so off from the comics. To have his family killed at a beach house and to have only one son were some odd choices for Jane's movie. It seemed Ray's movie was more focused on being comic accurate, tbh.
@@jnzooger Excellent analogy!
21:54 Dang, that was a pretty good line, kudos.
Thanks! Yeah, I thought that ending scene was very thought-provoking!
I wonder why all the characters in the void were all pruned
Yeah this makes no sense to me. The TVA stopped pruning so why were so many people there
@@Ne0NightsThey were pruned before the tva stopped.
@@Stumme-40203the TVA didn't know about the multiverse before
@@coolerkerl8469 How would they prune universes without knowing about the multiverse?
@@Stumme-40203 after he who remains was killed the sacred timeline got exposed to the multiverse
While it's not official, there's the minimovie with Thomas Jane playing a NYC based Punisher. It's one of the best LA Punisher appeances and closer to what was originally planned for his film.
That could be combined with the "cameo" to make #5
Oh, that's cool. I'll have to see if I can find that minimovie!
@@AbitofEverything4Uit's Dirty Laundry bro
@@JoeMama1001. Oh! Okay, if that's what it was, then I do cover that in the video. I thought Dirty Laundry was great!
I figured it was the Punisher from Warzone cause they had his rpg and there was that notorious scene in Warzone where he shoots a guy doing parkour also I imagined it was Fassbender Magneto that got killed by Cassandra Nova
Yeah, sure seemed like that rpg was meant to make us think of the Warzone scene where he blows that dude out of the sky mid air. Really a bummer we lost Ray, because I’m sure he would’ve been up for a cameo in the movie. I also agree that Fassbender would be the most likely magneto to have been killed by Cassandra. Excellent feedback!
Wayne Knight made such a great Micro! Lieberman is honestly my fav punisher character, so hoping somehow they'll find a spot for him in the multiverse somewhere, because I think Eben is going to be busy with the Thing for a while!
I agree...Micro is such a fantastic character and Knight really did him justice. Hope we do indeed get another Micro in DD: Born Again. Frank needs his man in the chair!
I'm a big punisher fan. Even with the overuse of his logo, he reminds me of the old death wish movies I've seen with my dad
Here's hoping born again is good 🙏
Also, great video, dude !
That’s a great point about the Death Wish movies! I had forgotten all about those, but those are just like the punisher movies. Yeah, I can’t wait to see Bernthal back again as the punisher. And thank you so much for the positive feedback on the vid. Really appreciate it!
Thomas Jane’s punisher will always be my favorite simply because it was the first one that I saw
Yeah, I thought he was an awesome punisher. His interpretation of the character was a really good movie!
I live your timeline videos
Thanks so much...really appreciate the positive feedback. I definitely love making them!
id love to see thomas jane in secret wars! also, i think number 5 is the spiderman animated series punisher since that is already in the multiverse.
I agree… It would be fantastic to see Thomas Jane back again in secret wars. And yeah, I like your pick for #5. That makes a lot of sense!
The only problem I have with War Zone is the failure in detective work regarding the undercover agent
Good point...it did seem odd that no one knew he was an FBI agent undercover. But it certainly did make an incredible narrative throughline for the movie!
When I see Wayne Knight I think of Space Jam haha. I really need to watch Warzone, I keep hearing it's having based on the Garth Ennis run of Punisher MAX.
Great point! Yeah, Space Jam is another awesome Wayne Knight movie. And you're correct, the movie is definitely based on the grittier tone of the Punisher MAX series!
Just like Dolph Lundgren punisher I can't find punisher war zone anywhere to watch do u have recommendations on where it might be viewed on
I found War Zone on Hoopla, which is free, if you have a library card.
Ouuuuu cool video i love this and Nic Cage Ghost Rider was supposed to be heavily featured in The Kang War not sure if theyll continue with that plot tho
I never knew Punisher was super comics accurate like this i gotta go back now and watch those again
The major question is who is the 5th Punisher 🤔
YES PLEASE COVER MUTANT X one of my favorite shows youre working overtime
I really do hope we get the Cage Ghost Rider in an upcoming movie. That would be awesome. And yeah, that 5th Punisher is a definitely puzzler!
@@AbitofEverything4Upls do the mutant x vid! I don't rant about it because a lot of ppl don't onow about it but it has a good aesthetic and it answers a lot of questions
Clint Eastwood
Yeah, Mutant X looks like a really fun show… So I think I’m gonna check it out for sure!
Maybe do Big Hero 6 timeline one day, i'm sure there are some easy clues in this movie?
That would be awesome 😂
Good point! Yeah, I do need to tackle Big Hero 6 at some point for sure!
A Ben 10 timeline would be awesome, but ABOE4U probably isn't very familiar with that franchise.
@@CraigXJ87 Yeah, I'd have to do a lot of research for that one. But I hear it's a really good show.
@@AbitofEverything4Uit was my gateway into the superhero genre :)
Created by Man of Action who later worked on the aforementioned Big Hero 6 film!
As a life long punisher fan of comics since 80’s, I really LOVE war zone, it’s really slept on in punishers history, it’s a shame cause I feel like with a slightly higher budget, couple actors swapped out for better, it could have been like “Logan” quality punisher movie, i mean bernthal is def #1 now, but awesome is my #2 live action adaption
I agree… Warzone was a lot better than I thought it would be. Honestly my only issue was that the actor playing Jigsaw was a little too cheesy for me, but the make up was fantastic on him and the movie overall was really good. Had a lot of fun breaking it down for this video!
I know people might dislike it, but I've always been one to see Ray Stevenson Punisher in the same universe as not only Nic Cage Ghost Rider (not just because of Marvel Knights and Sony, but also how they're in line with each other with the exaggerate campy and dark aspects), but also in Andrew Garfield Spider-Man, Tom Hardy Venom, Miles Teller Fantastic Four and James McAvoy X-Men universes, which would make Ray Stevenson Punisher be from the same universe as Ryan Reynolds Deadpool nowadays and why Russian and that AT4 were in the movie, as well as Channing Tatum Gambit and Dafne Keen X-23, so if they were to bring more of these, they would already be in the same universe. Chris Evans Human Torch, Wesley Snipes Blade and Jennifer Garner Elektra are all from the old 2000s universe.
That's a really cool way to look at it. Yeah, I love that idea that the MCU isn't the only connected universe out there and that those early characters formed a connected universe as well!
I feel like the rocket launcher that Blade uses is from Ray Stevenson's Punisher because of how brutal his version is and he seems like the only one to use one, also I feel like Ray Stevenson would have liked to come back to do it and I would not be surprised if at some point it was in the script had he been able to be in the movie a reference to him playing the one character in the Thor movies as well as Punisher. As for the fifth one there are so many different versions from shows, games and comics that it would be hard to tell which one fits the best.
I agree...I love the idea of the rocket launcher being a reference to Ray's Punisher (RIP, Ray). That seems like such a great way to honor his legacy!
Sorry, but MCU Punisher is the GOAT🔥I can't wait for "Born Again"
Oh, totally agree...Bernthal is absolutely the goat. Theo other movies are enjoyable, but they can't touch the MCU Punisher!
Hey man, what's your favorite punisher movie though?
Personally, my favorite is the 1989 one. It has nice action, a good plot and is comic accurate.
Oh wow...that's so hard to pick. I liked aspects of each one. I guess I felt that Jane's Punisher was my favorite. Some of the jokes were abit off, but overall I really liked his approach to the character. But I also liked Dolph and Ray's versions as well.
Can you add What If Immersive Story to timeline spreadsheet, i know there's controversy if its canon but it has for sure been some kind of Marvel Studios tie-in media
Good question...so the catch is that it involves not just a branch off the sacred timeline, as that would be fine, but it even goes so far as to say that they go outside Loki's tree itself to wage that final boss battle. That seems to make it impossible to include even as a branch off the sacred timeline, tbh. I hope that Feige will give us a clear direction on the game and how he views it. It's a really cool game, but it just seems to break so much canon along the way.
I swear there was a reference to the classic Thor and Captain America because I saw a shield and helmet that looked more classic. I dunno if it was a classic comic reference or a classic movie and tv show reference. Just an observation I made.
Oh, cool! I must have missed that. If you remember where you saw it, let me know and I'll check it out. Thanks for your feedback on the vid!
It was just before Wolverine and Deadpool fight after being sent to the void. I'm going to try and find the scene to see if I can spot it. @@AbitofEverything4U
Literally took me less than a minute. It's at the 22 second mark in a video titled Deadpool vs Wolverine Full Fight 4k uploaded by Buggo. @@AbitofEverything4U
Awesome! I’ll be sure to check it out. Thank you so much!
So basically Ray Stevenson's Punisher is a late 2000's version of the MCU Punisher (Jon Bernthal) ?
Good point...yeah, the level of violence in Ray's movie is right up there with the Punisher show. The overall fights are more brutal in the Netflix show, but the raw violence is still pretty intense in Ray's movie (RIP, Ray).
amazing thanks!
Thanks for the positive feedback. Really appreciate it!
@@AbitofEverything4U of course. always enjoy ur vids!
😊
Punisher lore! Yes!!
Love the Punisher movies!
I wish Netflix punishers jigsaw looked more like the war zones. Netflix fumbled jigsaw hard. And I love the Netflix show and really wanna see it continue
Yeah, other than the over-the-top acting by Jigsaw in the War Zone movie, I thought they did a much better job with the Jigsaw character than they did in the Netflix show. I never liked that Netflix version very much. ofc, beyond than that, the Netflix Punisher is fantastic!
1)well, the 5th punisher , dp was referencing was from a one shot movie that's available in YT is THE PUNISHER:FIRST ROUND ,where punisher kills kingpin goons and fights THE WOLVERINE.
2)Punisher actor jon is canon to the mcu,so is his character & Armor wars is greenlit , give us punisher in war machine suit!! and that would be true PUNISHER:WAR ZONE moment across the net and fandom!!
Oh, now that's a cool idea! I hadn't considered Punisher: First Round!
@@AbitofEverything4U yep,yep its really Gordon pikachu reynolds thing 🤣🤣
Nice!
Is the 1989 Punisher movie any good? I've never seen it. I think it's more likely Deadpool is rounding up but these animated versions are also possible I suppose. Kind of cool that the 80s movie actually gave a date though granted that could be the date they were filming since it says 1988. Marvel Knights wouldn't have just been an early Midnight Suns but in general an early MCU when you think about it because interconnected universe. Having seen the Ray Stevenson version quite recently before DP&W released on the server (I was streaming it) while it wasn't THE BEST thing I've seen it was still pretty fun. The final act of the movie was a joy in fact to watch. I would say as far as he four, five and six year stuff ... six years ago his family was unalived. Five years ago he begun Punishing. And finally four years ago is when the he landed on the FBI radar.
Good question about Dolph's movie. I do think it's worth a watch... it isn't great, but it isn't bad either. Dolph played the Punisher almost like he was on drugs the whole time, which is odd. But some of the fight scenes are really good, because he did alot of his own stunts. And yeah, that computer date could indeed be the date it was filmed, but since there's nothing else to go off, it seems like it's all we have. And good point about the Marvel Knights being an early MCU. Would have been cool to see a big team-up move with those characters!
Rememebr watching warzone a few years aho and hating it. Might give it another chance because you make it soumd awesome
Yeah, the actor playing Jigsaw was very annoying, but if you can get past him, I really enjoyed Ray's portrayal of the Punisher (RIP, Ray!) as well as seeing so many characters pulled from the comics. And that final fight scene was pretty epic!
Quick question, is there just one TVA for the whole multiverse or is it just for the MCU 616? I know during the Loki show this was a big question, but after Deadpool and Wolverine it can be assumed it’s just 1 TVA for the whole multiverse, since they have insight to not just different branches but completely different trees such as 10005, but I believe that’s a problem. I personally agree with you with the theory that Loki didn’t create the multiverse, it just allowed the branches and what ifs to grow and exist (and create incursions with prior existing universes after destroying the loom) instead of pruning, but if there was just one TVA before destroying the loom then that means there where no other trees at all, everything was pruned before Loki, so now I’m confused since Deadpool made me believe there is just one TVA, but again, if that was true then that means the Multiverse was in fact created after Loki Season 2 (not just what ifs but Tobey, Andrew, 838,10005, paint universe etc) what do u think about this?
Great question! So my theory is that there is only one TVA, but while the loom was in place they could only view the 616 universe and its branches. Once the loom was destroyed and Loki created his tree, this opened up the TVA to be able to view the entire multiverse via their tech. So now they monitor all of the different universes across the multiverse. I hope we get more confirmation of this when Fantastic Four arrives, as it seems to be set in a totally different universe. Fingers crossed it all becomes more clear soon!
@@AbitofEverything4U So the TVA was created by the 616 Kang FOR the 616 universe? I actually like this theory, since it makes He who remains idea of locking away the 616 universe from the rest of the multiverse actually make sense. Thank u
I agree...it really seems to all fit together nicely!
I would definitely recommend watching Mutant X! That Series is really good!! And it lasted 3 long seasons! Unfortunately it ends in a cliffhanger. So keep that in mind in case you watch it! I would really like it if in some form of media whether it's in comic book form, animation, or live action that someone gives that show a proper conclusion! It deserves it! Even if it is similar to how WB and DC comics finally gave the 90's Flash series a proper finish during the CW's Crisis on Infinite Earths crossover event! Mutant X deserves a proper conclusion! Especially after that series cliffhanger!
That's great to hear. Yeah, I need to check the series out. Thanks for sharing your take on it!
L: "127 murders in 5 years Frank, what do you call that?!"
P: "A work in progress"
Cold.
Love it!
Thomas Jane
He was such a great Punisher!
There's also norman reedus punisher in that one animated iron man movie
Excellent point. Man, there have been so many punisher versions!
I would definitely love to see you cover Mutant X.
Good to know! Yeah, I've never seen it before, so I am abit intrigued by it!
@@AbitofEverything4U Apparently at the time it was airing, it was a huge hit. Nowadays, from the clips I've seen, we'd probably put it quality wise on the same level as Inhumans? Which goes to show how much superhero TV evolved in just one decade, because this show ended in 2004, and by 2015 we already had stuff like Daredevil and Jessica Jones. Yeah, Mutant X and Man-Thing seem to be the only post-Blade live-action things you've yet to cover so I can't wait to see videos on both.
I agree, it is really amazing how quality has improved over the years in the superheroes genre. Definitely looking forward to checking the show amount!
Wait a minute did i say 5 Punishers ? Because i think there's 4 of them
I agree...4 is more likely and Deadpool probably just made up a number and chose 5.
I think the Punisher mentioned in Deadpool and Wolverine is the Ray Stevenson one based on different comments i seen about that topic, but i do like to think Dolph and Thomas versions of the punisher did get pruned at some put and since i heard their universes are more realistic i think it would be funny and interesting to imagine their reaction to the void. Sadly i don't think they'll last that long there.
Great feedback! I agree, it sure seems like Ray's Punisher is being hinted at in the movie (RIP, Ray!) but I also agree that it's likely that all of the Punishers are canon, especially with references like the Russian being one of the villains working for Cassandra.
@@AbitofEverything4U Absolutely, I don't know why but I have a fun and silly headcanon that either Dolph or Thomas Punisher hanged out with a version of Blackjack O'Hara in the void. Hey since we know Nova was going to be in a early version of infinity war do you think he would have gone with Tony to space or stayed on earth and helped Steve?
Oh, I didn’t know know Nova was going to be an early story like that. That should be pretty cool!
@@AbitofEverything4U Yeah, it would have been cool if he was in infinity war and endgame though I can imagine a different timeline where he was present during those movies.
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A... council of Reeds???
"Say that again..."
Yeah, I think that would be awesome. It would be a chance to bring back every actor that’s ever played Mr. fantastic… Maybe even the actor that did the 1994 movie could return!
Love Punisher
Such a great character!
Punisher is my top 3 comic character. Wolverine, Spiderman then him. And I'm glad these are now acknowledged to be in the multiverse. But honestly no one has gotten him completely right until Jon bernthal. Dolph I've only seen one. Uneventful. Don't remember anything about it. But no skull so very unfaithful imo. Thomas Jane, the acting was pretty good. Fun movie. Tonally idk if it's the hardcore punisher I'm used to. Then war zone i may look at it on rewatch in a different light knowing the main actor passed. But it wasn't for me. Tonally style and action wise was pretty spot on to the max/ marvel knights series. Acting wise idk ... The villain was so over the top goofy and honestly not well acted that it was hard to take the entire movie serious. It's like if you watch the dark Knight and joker was Jim Carey the mask performance. Very gory and the darks and shadows were comic accurate perfect. But man that acting. But bernthal is where it's at. Perfect performance. And the story was great. Hope he focuses more on criminals this next season because for his series he mostly took on crooked cops and military. But sure punisher those that deserve punishment. Just because they are the " good guys" doesn't mean they are above the law. But punisher is about taking out gangs and the mob so hopefully that's next.
Fantastic analysis of the different Punisher iterations. I agree with everything you said. If not for Jigsaw's actor, I'd consider Ray's movie (RIP, Ray) to be on par with Bernthal's series. But man, that dude really drove me crazy in the movie. So yeah, Bernthal is soooooo good as the Punisher. Can't wait to see his return in DD: Born Again!
Why would an animated Punisher be in my 3rd movie ? I think I'm mistaken or atleast that Deadpool is mistaken.
A likely possibility is Deadpool just rounded up to 5 to make it sound like a bigger number but wasn't meaning to be accurate, tbh. But if there is 5, then perhaps it's the animated version, ig.
Could you do a list without all the flashbacks
Great question! The reason I added the type column is so that you can filter the list down to what you want to view. So if you don’t want to see flashbacks, for instance, then you can remove that from the filter. You can filter online, but it creates a temporary view in that case. Or you can download the document and then it’s a lot easier to filter.
Is a Multiverse... so technically every Punisher is canon, but my favorite is the Punisher from the Netflix series.
3:15 Probably yes, with "Into/across/beyond The Spider-Verse" every animated Spider-Man is a part of the Sony Spider-Verse, and the Spider-Verse is a part of the Marvel Cinematic Multiverse, so the Animated Punisher is technically canon.
I agree...my favorite is also Bernthal's Punisher!
I wanna say as vague as they was I believe all are canon but maybe the ray Steven’s one in dead, since his actor is actually dead, there is no way to bring him back properly
I agree...that makes alot of sense. RIP Ray!
Do you think it's really possible that Thomas Jane's Punisher is in the same universe as Sam Raimi's Spider-Man? Also I don't think Deadpools line 100% connects all those punishers because it was just a reference to all those movies existing similar to the Logan references in No Good Deed and Deadpool 2.
I love the idea of Jane's Punisher being in Raimi's Spider-Man universe, but I don't feel it's a strong enough connection to establish it, since I'm not even sure it was planned for him to appear. It almost seems like his stunt double just showed up on set...which is pretty clever of him, tbh.
But I do feel that there were enough references in the DP&W movie to tie things back to the Punisher movies. The Rocket Launcher, the Russian, Elektra mentioning the Punisher, and ofc Deadpool's line about there being 5 Punishers all seem to indicate they were trying to tie the movie into the multiverse. It seems DP&W really did want to honor all the earlier movies that paved the way to the eventual MCU.
@@AbitofEverything4U intresting, thanks for your thoughts!
You, too! Love chatting with fellow MCU fans!
Good job.i feel all 3 punisher films worth watching.jane film is best especilly extended version which i own on dvd.war zone i admit is most comic accurte version.i always felt it took place in year it is released.i feel jane version is more likely to have been one killed in void as that was more popular on and goes with tribute to marvel legacy D & w was going for.war zone defently a reboot.
the only preblade marvel films i feel which could be canon to multiverse are punisher 89 and nick fury tv movie.btw those 2 along with hul tv show & films only watchable marvel projects before blade in 98.
Good theories on which Punisher was being referenced in the movie. And yeah, not too many films before Blade were watchable. Some of those early ones are really, really bad. lol!
Fun video!
Thanks for the positive feedback on the vid! Yeah, I really enjoy revisiting those older movies to break down their timelines!
The Punisher is My Favorite Marvel character I want a new Punisher movie
Yes! 1000 times Yes! We definitely need another Punisher movie!
@@AbitofEverything4U Totally 💯
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Which ones you have plan to cover now - Nick Fury, Man Thing or Howard the Duck?
Yes, those three are definitely on my list. Not sure what I'll do beyond those, but I think those three are going to be really fun!
@@AbitofEverything4U can't wait
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Omg I’d love to see a council of reeds in secret wars/doomsday :D
Wouldn't that be amazing!
Ye it really would be :D
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I'm just not sure Wade's joke about 5 is enough to canonize all of them. How far off is that from saying the DC references in DP2 make the DCEU canon to the Marvel multiverse?
Good points! Yeah, Deadpool is definitely an unreliable narrator. But I think the Punisher reference is more likely to be reliable as we do see the rocket launcher and Elektra confirms it was from the Punisher. We also see the Russian who was a Punisher villain. So at least for me, those things combined with Deadpool's joke make it seem more likely we can trust the Punisher movies are canon. But all that said, I agree with you that it's definitely up for debate and each fan will likely form their own opinions on it. Thanks for the feedback on the vid. Really appreciate it!
We Choose Thomas Jane The Punisher
Yep, he's definitely my favorite Punisher of the three that had their own movies.
I don't consider those to be solid connections. A shirt may symbolize something, but that doesn't matter when it comes to variants.
I think that's a very fair position to take. Granted, putting him in that otherwise outlandish looking shirt seems to indicate they wanted us to think of the Russian from Jane's movie, but I agree that it's not 100% confirmation. Thanks for watching the vid and sharing your feedback. Really appreciate it!