Ive been a deisel mech for 40 years and done a bit of street strip work, worked in a head shop and done more rebuilds than I can remember. This video was gold absolutely excellent. Unless you an accomplished engine builder you should listen to this.
Thanks for getting this info out there sir. I'm 60, and very amateur at engine building, but already follow these points. Did learn a thing or 2, so my day is good. Always learn!
I’m a young engine builder with the drive to learn from the legends like yourself. I’m all ears Mr. Salter. Thank you for the very informative videos! Very much appreciated. One day I look forward to completing your apprenticeship program if the opportunity arises
We took a tour at the Corvette Plant in Bowling Green one time. When we got to the end of the line they filled the engine up with Mobil-1 and fired it up. After about 30 seconds they rolled it over to the "roller Road" and FLOORED IT! I was totally SHOCKED! So I asked the tech why they do that, and his response was, "To break it in!" He said, "If it ain't right coming out of the factory, it's NOT going to get right." I said,"OK"... with much reservation. 😁
Probably like when I was in highschool (1996) changed the cam in my charger, I put it back together really quick because it started raining really hard and I was outside. Anyways I just started the thing up and drove to school the next morning... never had as issue with that mp purple shaft
Great class as always. As a GI, you know if you had a 16:30 appointment, if you were on time you were late. A GI always was 15 minutes early very every appointment. 😂😂
RK, RVK and RPK. Loved running a CV-616 machine. Took a while to figure out a formula (depending on the block being machined) to get the bore finish right. Certain amount of load and depending on what stone/ and or diamond used. Lot to it! No doubt. Thank you Brian! Agree with you and that’s how I assemble my engines. Amsoil assembly lube is my favorite but Lucas, LL5 work great .
The oil type is serious stuff. I saw videos about engine break in years back. They used an additive, so that's what I did. Not a good idea. But the nice thing about doing something stupid, hopefully it's a learning experience. Great video!
I’ve got a good friend that thinks that white freaking grease is the ultimate for engine assembly lube. He will go as far as to pack the oil pump full of it, he will have it on everything inside of an engine. Personally, I think it’s sloppy. I don’t like it. I like to do a light coat of ATF on my cylinder walls or WD-40, both seem to seat the rings quickly. I do several tractor engines a year. Most of my stuff is industrial engines, from time to time I’ve ran with the exhaust manifold off while on the Dyno, and you can literally watch each cylinder individually seat the rings. Brian, this is a good informative video. I appreciate you taking the time to do it.
@@jmflournoy386the point 99% of the engine builders miss, is that rings have two functions like Brian mention, seal and remove oil, putting oil on the rings or groves, you are defeating the design purpose, and if your engines will be stored, definitely they need to be preserved WD-40 is not good for that.
@@CJ5EVOLUTION exactly I just oiled the skirts and now we have coatings and better coatings for the rings and the ability to harden the grooves.. We are just a few miles for Brush Research where they make Flex Hones I used the CK10 coarse then hit it with a fine ball hone Now there are hones that can give an appropriate finish for whatever Love Lake Speeds works cheers 50 years goes by fast
Brian , you might want to add the differences betwixt : plasma moly faced rings , and vapor deposition faced rings . Then again , maybe you are now 100 percent vapor deposition .
I just saw a short video on valve spring gap and they plainly said you need .060" gap on the spring coils at full open to achieve optimal spring harmonics. Does that apply to all types of springs and spring rates? Or various cam lobe intensities?
Thanks Brian i just done a University Degree , i believe it was a Lake Speed JR video on honing to the bore stroke ratio , which determined the cross hatch angle . Any thoughts on that ! Kit from down under
Brian, you said the bore size for a 4 inch piston should be 4.004 to get your clearance. I have never seen in my career a piston that was nominal bore size. A 4 inch bore piston should measure less than 4.000 by whatever the clearance the piston manufacturer called out. So the piston in your example should have measured 3.996, not 4.000 as you stated. Adding clearance by over sizing the bore by .004 (4.004 finished diameter) you will have .008 clearance. That is 100% more clearance than the piston was designed for.
@@Thumper68 Glad to know that giving out incorrect information is ok. It’s ok to make a mistake. It’s another to not correct it. Pistons are never nominal bore size. Ever. How hard is it to say that the piston has the clearance built into it and the clearance is not in the bore?
"I don't want to dip my piston in the rings". Lol that funny I don't want to do that either I don't think the rings will magically go on like that I wish they that would be easy I guess lol I had to find the exact quote because that was funny. I say a bunch of jumbly words from time to time and it funny and sometimes don't make sense lol
Man ive had a question for so long that i cant really get a good answer on. On breakin obviously the motor is gona get hotter than normal due to rings etc. At what temp should you shut down the following.... Old school engine ex., 440 w iron heads.. Old school 440 w aluminum heads And newer school engines w aluminum heads?? Hoping you can clarify for me, as well as others that said they are curious to hear what i find out. Thanks in advance
I’m getting my sbc decked soon and am going to use a cometic mls gasket so I called summit to find out what surface finish is required so the machinest knows . 50 ra maximum .
Brian, do you use weak springs or lower ratio rocker arms for break-in? I've done two flat tappet cams in 15 years and always use old stock springs. I really prefer rollers!
Flat tappet lifter fit in block? They have to rotate. They have to have enough clearance to reliably rotate. They must have a crown on the face. Fit tolerances?
Ok I finally got threw it and actually I knew that dipping piston in oil is bad but yet for whatever reason a guy i know who does that and kinda told me to do that even though I knew it's not a good idea it kinda sucks when I was building my engine with help of course I didn't do the whole thing I did about 70% of it I knew quite a bit of problems and yes it ran fine and everything and it was fast sometimes but my god it just drove me insane all year and it still does because I haven't had the money to re do it to make it. It's hard for me to figure out what's write and wrong when I got people around me doing wrong things and they don't realize it themselves but I show them there wrong they think I am crazy just because my experience is what they 2 years of experience what do you know I got 100 years. That's what's hard me when I show them wrong things they think I am the idiot because of that reason. It almost made me not to touch a engine again but it sucks bad with all the arguments. But thanks you for the video it reminded me what's the right way on a piston which I thought it was total seal recommends light WD-40 on the piston and cylinder walls I thought I heard something if that sorts. But light oil in cylinder walls like you said I will try that next time if my guys let me
@SalterRacingEngines great vedio,what's the best solid flat tappet ,Nascar engines made a lot of horsepower several years ago before they was allowed to run solid rollers,what kind of type lifters did they use,or you would recommend, iam building a ford fe engine, and after you break in with VR1 oil,what oil do you use recommend after its broke in
@@eddiefe428 personally I would stay with VR1 the whole time. NASCAR lifters were a minimum of 904 diameter some were even bigger. They were DLC coated and we ran oil sprayers on the lobes. I can tell you Brent lykens is a friend of mine he's really good with FE engines you might want to talk to him see what he thinks.
I always just lube everything with 50w engine oil on assembly except the cam faces. Then I pressure lube with an external pump before starting. I figure it’s only going to have oil lubing it in the future and on every start after sitting and have never had an issue.
I’ve ran the VR1 oil in my hot rod and drag car for quite a few years now (LS engines hydraulic roller) break in as well as the life of the engine. Should I be using something else during normal operation (not break in) with less or no zinc since it adds friction? Or did I understand that incorrectly? Thank you for making these videos, I always enjoy learning from someone with experience and knowledge, like yourself!
Motor oil on the pistons, rings and cylinder walls. Lucas or federal mogul on everything else.pump the acceleraror pump let the fuel have time to vaporize in the intake then crank it and it will start like you just shut it off.
Just saying Bob Glidden blew up like 30 motors by assembling with White grease it burns to hard coke-never use something that is not soluble in EO BTW we used Hylomar on SS MOPAR shim gaskets instead of AL paint or Coppercoat Mopar with 2" compression or 2 1/16 stock rod 6.768 work better with 7.2 rod which gives close to your target compression HT and a much lighter piston. that was then Now you can stick in a half in stroker....
Not many people out there that I would listen to him for an hour. Always learn so much thanks Brian.
I can’t thank you enough Mr Salter. Your videos have taught me a great deal and solidified a few things I’ve picked up over the years. Cheers brother.
Ive been a deisel mech for 40 years and done a bit of street strip work, worked in a head shop and done more rebuilds than I can remember. This video was gold absolutely excellent. Unless you an accomplished engine builder you should listen to this.
@@deanmoser5907 thank you
Always learning, even though I’ve been doing it for 35years. Appreciate the time you put into it, felt like I was back in auto school. Thanks Brian.
Thanks for getting this info out there sir. I'm 60, and very amateur at engine building, but already follow these points. Did learn a thing or 2, so my day is good. Always learn!
I’m a young engine builder with the drive to learn from the legends like yourself. I’m all ears Mr. Salter. Thank you for the very informative videos! Very much appreciated. One day I look forward to completing your apprenticeship program if the opportunity arises
We took a tour at the Corvette Plant in Bowling Green one time. When we got to the end of the line they filled the engine up with Mobil-1 and fired it up. After about 30 seconds they rolled it over to the "roller Road" and FLOORED IT! I was totally SHOCKED!
So I asked the tech why they do that, and his response was, "To break it in!" He said, "If it ain't right coming out of the factory, it's NOT going to get right." I said,"OK"... with much reservation. 😁
Thanks for going into great detail. I'm always taking notes. Everyone will learn.
Late 80's early 90's flat tappet cams needed to be broken in at 2am!
Probably like when I was in highschool (1996) changed the cam in my charger, I put it back together really quick because it started raining really hard and I was outside. Anyways I just started the thing up and drove to school the next morning... never had as issue with that mp purple shaft
It amazes me how much I don't know. Keep the videos coming
Thanks Brian for your high level practical knowledge and experience 👍
We called my buddy’s VW bus the stabbin cabin.
Thank you Brian !!! your tech is great!! I learn very time I watch..
Great class
I have in the past.
Filled the sump with hand pump through oil pressure / gallery port
Holy crap… super stock engine builder taught me the wd40 technique years ago…. Interesting to hear you do the same…
Great class as always. As a GI, you know if you had a 16:30 appointment, if you were on time you were late. A GI always was 15 minutes early very every appointment. 😂😂
RK, RVK and RPK. Loved running a CV-616 machine. Took a while to figure out a formula (depending on the block being machined) to get the bore finish right. Certain amount of load and depending on what stone/ and or diamond used. Lot to it! No doubt. Thank you Brian!
Agree with you and that’s how I assemble my engines. Amsoil assembly lube is my favorite but Lucas, LL5 work great .
The oil type is serious stuff. I saw videos about engine break in years back. They used an additive, so that's what I did. Not a good idea.
But the nice thing about doing something stupid, hopefully it's a learning experience.
Great video!
I’ve got a good friend that thinks that white freaking grease is the ultimate for engine assembly lube. He will go as far as to pack the oil pump full of it, he will have it on everything inside of an engine. Personally, I think it’s sloppy. I don’t like it. I like to do a light coat of ATF on my cylinder walls or WD-40, both seem to seat the rings quickly. I do several tractor engines a year. Most of my stuff is industrial engines, from time to time I’ve ran with the exhaust manifold off while on the Dyno, and you can literally watch each cylinder individually seat the rings. Brian, this is a good informative video. I appreciate you taking the time to do it.
My grandfather years ago dipped pistons in a bucket of red dyed diesel before stuffing them seemed to work for him
Best episode ever
Good info, I don’t hear no one talk about this cross hatching
I'm ready to soak up the knowledge
Most honorable lifter manufacturer in China.
Always informative, thanks!
Hey there! Could we get a video on rocker arm geometry and determining pushrod length? Love the videos.
I use WD-40 on all my overhauls I do in average of 20 a year on 12 Cyl engines, never had a problem with it
wd is a water dispersant, did you get your motor wet there are much better lubes depending on what you need
@@jmflournoy386the point 99% of the engine builders miss, is that rings have two functions like Brian mention, seal and remove oil, putting oil on the rings or groves, you are defeating the design purpose, and if your engines will be stored, definitely they need to be preserved WD-40 is not good for that.
@@CJ5EVOLUTION exactly I just oiled the skirts and now we have coatings and better coatings for the rings and the ability to harden the grooves.. We are just a few miles for Brush Research where they make Flex Hones I used the CK10 coarse then hit it with a fine ball hone Now there are hones that can give an appropriate finish for whatever Love Lake Speeds works cheers 50 years goes by fast
Brian , you might want to add the differences betwixt : plasma moly faced rings , and vapor deposition faced rings . Then again , maybe you are now 100 percent vapor deposition .
AGREE 100% !!!
I just saw a short video on valve spring gap and they plainly said you need .060" gap on the spring coils at full open to achieve optimal spring harmonics. Does that apply to all types of springs and spring rates? Or various cam lobe intensities?
You could have gave him the example of a really high quality set of machinist gauge block sticks together
Thanks Brian i just done a University Degree , i believe it was a Lake Speed JR video on honing to the bore stroke ratio , which determined the cross hatch angle . Any thoughts on that !
Kit from down under
@@christophercullen1236 yes that's one aspect that carries the most weight
Brian, you said the bore size for a 4 inch piston should be 4.004 to get your clearance. I have never seen in my career a piston that was nominal bore size. A 4 inch bore piston should measure less than 4.000 by whatever the clearance the piston manufacturer called out. So the piston in your example should have measured 3.996, not 4.000 as you stated. Adding clearance by over sizing the bore by .004 (4.004 finished diameter) you will have .008 clearance. That is 100% more clearance than the piston was designed for.
@@bobmopar2587,,, no , he said it correctly . He was using numbers as an example , not actual parts .
@@bobmopar2587dude he was just saying numbers for an example it’s ok calm down a notch.
@@Thumper68 Glad to know that giving out incorrect information is ok. It’s ok to make a mistake. It’s another to not correct it. Pistons are never nominal bore size. Ever. How hard is it to say that the piston has the clearance built into it and the clearance is not in the bore?
"I don't want to dip my piston in the rings". Lol that funny I don't want to do that either I don't think the rings will magically go on like that I wish they that would be easy I guess lol I had to find the exact quote because that was funny. I say a bunch of jumbly words from time to time and it funny and sometimes don't make sense lol
Man ive had a question for so long that i cant really get a good answer on. On breakin obviously the motor is gona get hotter than normal due to rings etc. At what temp should you shut down the following....
Old school engine ex., 440 w iron heads..
Old school 440 w aluminum heads
And newer school engines w aluminum heads??
Hoping you can clarify for me, as well as others that said they are curious to hear what i find out. Thanks in advance
I’m getting my sbc decked soon and am going to use a cometic mls gasket so I called summit to find out what surface finish is required so the machinest knows . 50 ra maximum .
Darn I was a dipper lol. No more thx for the info
Brian, do you use weak springs or lower ratio rocker arms for break-in? I've done two flat tappet cams in 15 years and always use old stock springs. I really prefer rollers!
@@6426yy neither man I put it together like it's going to leave
I haven't had any issues only once and that was a heat treat problem with the camshaft
@SalterRacingEngines All the horror stories made me gunshy. Thanks for the reply and sharing your knowledge.
Also funny thing don't dip the piston in the rings lol that's funny I guess the rings will manically put in the grooves perfectly lol
Do you run zinc oil in flat tappet cam engines as regular oil?
Does anything change for the break in procedure when running either a an engine with Hard Blok or a solid block/head for alcohol fuel?
Flat tappet lifter fit in block? They have to rotate. They have to have enough clearance to reliably rotate. They must have a crown on the face. Fit tolerances?
Ok I finally got threw it and actually I knew that dipping piston in oil is bad but yet for whatever reason a guy i know who does that and kinda told me to do that even though I knew it's not a good idea it kinda sucks when I was building my engine with help of course I didn't do the whole thing I did about 70% of it I knew quite a bit of problems and yes it ran fine and everything and it was fast sometimes but my god it just drove me insane all year and it still does because I haven't had the money to re do it to make it. It's hard for me to figure out what's write and wrong when I got people around me doing wrong things and they don't realize it themselves but I show them there wrong they think I am crazy just because my experience is what they 2 years of experience what do you know I got 100 years. That's what's hard me when I show them wrong things they think I am the idiot because of that reason. It almost made me not to touch a engine again but it sucks bad with all the arguments. But thanks you for the video it reminded me what's the right way on a piston which I thought it was total seal recommends light WD-40 on the piston and cylinder walls I thought I heard something if that sorts. But light oil in cylinder walls like you said I will try that next time if my guys let me
Put a link to your merch in the comments ..
Cross hatch pattern for an N/A 600 HP Small block Chevy 421 street car?
@@dondotterer24 it depends on your ring but probably around 35°
@SalterRacingEngines great vedio,what's the best solid flat tappet ,Nascar engines made a lot of horsepower several years ago before they was allowed to run solid rollers,what kind of type lifters did they use,or you would recommend, iam building a ford fe engine, and after you break in with VR1 oil,what oil do you use recommend after its broke in
@@SalterRacingEngines thanks. I will ask Total seal.
@@eddiefe428 personally I would stay with VR1 the whole time.
NASCAR lifters were a minimum of 904 diameter some were even bigger. They were DLC coated and we ran oil sprayers on the lobes. I can tell you Brent lykens is a friend of mine he's really good with FE engines you might want to talk to him see what he thinks.
I always just lube everything with 50w engine oil on assembly except the cam faces. Then I pressure lube with an external pump before starting. I figure it’s only going to have oil lubing it in the future and on every start after sitting and have never had an issue.
I’ve ran the VR1 oil in my hot rod and drag car for quite a few years now (LS engines hydraulic roller) break in as well as the life of the engine. Should I be using something else during normal operation (not break in) with less or no zinc since it adds friction? Or did I understand that incorrectly? Thank you for making these videos, I always enjoy learning from someone with experience and knowledge, like yourself!
@@TheMan_inBlack no VR1 is awesome for normal operation too
@@SalterRacingEnginesawesome good to hear. Thanks again!
Motor oil on the pistons, rings and cylinder walls. Lucas or federal mogul on everything else.pump the acceleraror pump let the fuel have time to vaporize in the intake then crank it and it will start like you just shut it off.
I drain my oil through a paint strainer
Soak your lifters and timing chain in oil overnight before installing
Just saying Bob Glidden blew up like 30 motors by assembling with White grease it burns to hard coke-never use something that is not soluble in EO
BTW we used Hylomar on SS MOPAR shim gaskets instead of AL paint or Coppercoat
Mopar with 2" compression or 2 1/16 stock rod 6.768 work better with 7.2 rod which gives close to your target compression HT and a much lighter piston. that was then Now you can stick in a half in stroker....
and i do not dunk my pistons in oil on assembly. I have my method . I'm sure you do to.🤫
agree
So 300 miles for rings and 1000 miles for the bottom end is a myth.