Enneagram: When Good Goes Bad For Type 2
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- Опубліковано 16 гру 2019
- Transformational Enneagram & Relationship Coaching
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Dr. Tom LaHue is a graduate of Florida Christian College. He holds 3 Master's Degrees including an MDiv from Liberty Univ. His Doctoral degree is from Grace College and Seminary. He is also a certified Marriage Coach. He and his wife Traci have been married since 1991. They are the proud parents of 5 children and 5 grandchildren.
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Literal tears, there wasn't a sentence in this video that I didn't agree with.
I feel embarrassed, but am learning what I am and what I need to look for...
Thank you for this..
Please don’t feel embarrassed or humiliated. We ALL have our own shortcomings and struggles in life. When we are presented with a mirror, it can be painful, but it isn’t damning. The sort of loving kindness 2’s offer to the world is indispensable. Always remember that!
“You are not being a problem by acknowledging there’s a problem.” OH MY GOODNESS! THANK YOU!!! I mean that with all my heart! I ALWAYS feel ashamed when I say there’s a problem, and I need help.
I’ve listened to several different teachers on the enneagram types and found yours to be my favorites. I appreciate how much you have helped me and my family so much!
As a 4 w 3, I have a close friend who is a 2 w 1 and I struggle with feeling manipulated by her. I find that instead of just expressing and vocalising their desire to feel needed and connected, 2s can behave in passive manipulative ways to get their needs met.
Yes, as a 2. This is typical 2 behavior.
As a 2, I've always said it's hard to get up in front of people to share or speak about something but if it's something they will benefit from or it's something that can really help them, I will work past my discomfort and do it. However, if it's greeted with silence, or no comments or words afterward, I'll just kick myself around the block for sharing.
"they don't want to be criticized or blamed" - nobody WANTS to be criticized or blamed, but the 2 (especially with a 1 wing) loves to display lofty talk and the moral high ground of "personal accountability," and yet resists tooth and nail actually taking any themselves. Because they can't look at their own shadow. That dark side is more than just "not wanting to be criticized." It's hypocrisy and self-deception.
as a full on 2. I will defend people because I empathize with them and how much it hurts to be attacked. So I find myself jumping to their defense out of empathy.
"You are not a problem just because you are acknowledging a problem."
Your content is life transforming to learn. I’m very grateful to you for making these videos.
WOW Dr. Tom!! “You are not being a problem by acknowledging a problem.” That was huge! Thank you. I need to remember this one.
You are so welcome!
I recently discovered your channel! Thank you for helping others with your knowledge! I didnt understand myself very well until now!
I love your videos Dr. LaHue. Thank you for them ❤
The way I find to explain my behaviour is that because the biggest pain for me is to not feel loved/ connected/ included/ appreciated, I don't want anybody to feel that way, so I try to connect with whoever I see struggling and want to make them feel that they matter.
I also defend who is being attacked. I sometimes think that people judge easily and often because they don't have all the information. I tend to say things like "well, we don't know. She/ he might have done/ said that because ..." and I'd find reasons that might justify their behaviour.
In the work environment or in my family, having social harmony is very important for me, so I will defend who is attacked to get the others to understand, let go and go back to harmony. (It makes me feel great if I manage to turn someone's anger into understanding and compassion).
I would not defend/ help someone selfish or someone who goes against the group's interests though.
With the pandemic and racial injustice upheavel, it is especially hard to agree with everyone!
Pretty awesome! I am a 2, and I agree! Though I have to say though as a 2 who is close friends with another 2, it’s quite funny to see. She will compliment me all day, and when I do the same, she is like oh nooo, and wanting to hide. But the truth is that while a 2 acts like that, we actually do like it, and when others aren’t as vocal in appreciation, over time, a 2 won’t like it.
I am a 4 w5 self preservation. I actively encourage the people I care about to advance in life and I feel fulfilled and happy when they achieve goals even far above me. I don't agree that all 4 s are envious and jealous of others. I have had moments where I know that I actively compared myself to others and felt resentful/really sad. However I think that everyone has moments were they think that they don't measure up. I have two examples of when I felt that I didn't measure up after comparing myself: 1. As a child, living with my aunt who cared more about her children and didn't really appreciate me which was understandable as I was not her child and she was more practical (ISFJ) and overworked and I was a private, head in the clouds and not very practical child (INFP) who could not give her all the help she needed with practical matters in the house. 2. When I fell in love with someone and then found out he chose a partner who was more beautiful according to society's standards and more trendy than I was. I felt inadequate in both situations and I compared myself realistically in each situation and understood the motivation behind each person's choices and actions. Obviously a trendy guy would be into someone who is more aesthetically pleasing and a mom would prefer her own children. I am not flawed for acknowledging that in real life people choose others over others and that sometimes we won't measure up to their subjective criteria. Now I am working on having self compassion and realizing that although I don't meet society's standards for being a beautiful woman, I have intrinsic value and I can hone my character.
I would say I would be empathetic towards “Jill” and see myself in her situation being the one criticized. So put off by that, being the 2 that I am, I would jump in and defend her completely. And yes...I would definitely feel an unspoken bond/ connection with her afterward.
You save my life, for real!!!!! Thanks a lot!!
It’s like you know me so well. I’m tickled. Amazing.
You're amazing Tom!
As a recently self diagnosed 2w3, (and in response to your final question about why 2’s insert themselves into fights between “Jack” and “Jill”), I think that you’re half correct in that we side with “Jill” to curry favor, but I also think by acknowledging “Jill’s” weaknesses and defending them, we are currying favor with “Jack” by signaling our acceptance of other’s faults whilst demonstrating empathy. In short, I think I might be trying to connect with both sides, despite the surface level disagreement with “Jack”.
Any 2’s or people experienced with 2’s, let me know your thoughts!
Agreed
I always acknowledge both parties so both know I understand their points lf views, but they also can see the others point of view. This way they can both grow.
I'm also a 2w3 btw lol so this is something I can totally relate
@@planherwayto_fit How does siding with the underdog at first go along with a 2?
@@lucillejerome5511 it gives them an credit that they're doing something right and not just putting them down. They're already trying/working hard so they deserve some credit for their efforts before you tell them how they messed up or could do better. Some peoppe self talk is already horrible why add extra punches
This is so freaky listening you describe me, thank you. I need to understand myself better
I wonder if the type 2 videos bring in more income, because I always make sure to watch all of the commercials on youtubers that I like. Then again, I'm always watching videos to help the other types in my life instead of my own, so... maybe there's no telling. 😄
Im a 2 and caught myself frowning/smiling as you explained how 2's react to other people's good/bad news... Until I remembered that there was no dog in the first place
That’s amazing!
I think something to add here and emphasize on is that no one usually wants to do the things that 2’s step up for so that also plays into the “calling” for us because of the displeasing aspect and how we would never want others to feel like that
So helpful, thank you! 💗
You have the best videos on enneagram ☺️
Wow! This is very insightful. t would be interesting to see how different types respond to the stay-at-home orders. My own situation is that of the "caregiver." I did homecare for kids with disabilities, then retired to care for my husband who had dementia. He died just before the pandemic orders. So now I am a caregiver with limited means to find value. I have been separated from children and grandchildren, and more recently, I was quarantined because I had contact with someone who tested positive. I know every personality type has their own challenges. I am fighting resentment and feeling unappreciated. It all makes sense. Thanks for helping me see myself.
Thank you. My name is Scott Wicker. I am leading a growth group. 2 Twos 1 four 1 9 and 1 7. i found your posts while looking for teaching matterials. Our youngest memeber is a Christion Two. Thankyou for your efforts.
I defend because I know how it feels to be treated that way. Its kind of like the saying about people that are really very sad trying their hardest to make others happy, because they how horrible feels to be sad so they want to stop others from feeling that way.
From my history ... I was a last born and never felt the need to help or be the helper as a child. Ever. However- in my late teens / early twenties... my involvement in Church (and the teachings) set me in a trajectory of doing all I could to help others. Sacrificing myself was exemplified... and compared to angelic actions / Jesus. Then having a special needs son kept my '2-ness' going into overdrive!
I do feel the urge to step in and defend what I perceive as someone being treated unfairly, but it does not come easy for me- it tortures me because it’s not my nature as more of a diplomat and one who wants to be the loving mom. I believe it comes from my 1 wing which is very strong and very aware of injustices. My tendency is to go to the person who I perceived as victimized in private and ask if they would like to talk about it and let them know that I am validating and witnessing so they do not feel alone. But if it has to do with my 20 yr old daughter, and she is having a hard time advocating for herself (she has mild cerebral palsy and is a very gentle soul), I will lean into my 8 and the fierce protecting mom and advocate for her directly with the other group or person.
Wow I could not stop nodding. Felt like you are talking to me without knowing me. Any ideas why it’s so hard for 2s to make a desicion?
I am a 2 and I struggle with decisions. Typically it is because I am so used to deferring to someone else in order to meet their needs that when it is left up to me even if it is a decision for myself I struggle to make a choice. A great example is if it is time to eat but I am the only one eating. I start thinking about it at 5pm... 6 hits and I think I still need to make a decision. at 7 I am in the car driving around to find some place. but I struggle with answering "what do I want" I am used to answering with "I want whatever you(the person I am with) want." by 9 pm I a going through a drive through getting something I otherwise didn't want and feeling mad at myself for my inability to decide.
Wow, spot on!
Thanks for the encouragement.
Yeah, the pleaser it's definitely accurate.
I have definitely noticed the need to defend someone. It comes from two things. One is empathy. I feel what Jill is feeling and the 8 lashes out to defend her/myself. Also it’s seeing someone in need and wanting to help them. For me it’s not a need to bond with them. I actually don’t feel I bond(long term) with people all that well. I would look for appreciation though. I help someone, get their appreciation, and then move on. No lasting bond.
Remarkable commentary
I wont say i have given up pleasing people but i have failed in all my relationships. I'm accepting solitude even it's depressing but i know that no one will disappoint me and i wont disappoint anyone with my bottled up anger. Don't get me twisted, my life goal is help people as much as i can before the day i die(Just imagine regretting not helping someone in dire need of assistance), but now with no expectations. After all my first name means joy-bringer. I will continue to bring joy to everyone i encounter but i will never expect anyone to stay because we all come into this world alone and we die alone(This is a depressing cold truth about life, but it is what it is).Trying to become a stoic, i will see how that goes.
Spot on !,👍
Never felt loved. Only a commodity. it’s because I wasn’t loved. It’s okay though. I just need to get out of whatever is making me shutdown. I completely disconnected from life.
I relate to type 2 and 9 so much!
Me too! I’m a 2 and my husband is a 9
The Giver is The Pleaser, a popular correlation for ENFP 🤯
Dr I'm a 1 and my friend is probably 2 I want you to make a vid about relationships between engrams love and friendship
Related to all of this!
At least for me, I don't want the spotlight because I feel worthless and it truly gives me anxiety. Working on it! I can absolutely talk in front of people, but I don't want praise or positive attention.
Defending those not there to defend themselves, diffusing bullies, etc. are def. a trait. For the motive of saying ‘see’ isn’t accurate for me, but I think more injustice angle?
I definitely feel the need to defend people. Always rooting for the underdog. And I guess if I'm sensitive to criticism I think others are too. Have you heard feedback from 2's that they struggle with their enneagram type? I know I am a 2 (tried taking several tests, several times to get a different answer). But even being a healthy type 2 doesn't come with many strengths (that I can find?). Also, any recommended books on the enneagram?
2's are great. My wife is a 2 and I am so glad. Start with "The Road Back To You" and "The Path Between Us."
How do you work through things with people who DON'T want to talk about it? Like that's the killer part for me. I have no problem talking about it and going through things, but it always a "get over it".
Yes ! This !!
I knew you didn't like washing all them dishes all the time ...
Hahahahaha ...
❤thanks
Do you have any experience or ideas on how ADHD affects the different Enneagram personalities? I am pretty sure I am a 2, wing 1, and was recently diagnosed with ADHD. I struggle with emotional disregulation, over-responsibility, depression and anxiety, specifically anxiety about my primary relationships.
Interesting. Are you sure that you are not a 6? There is a 6 that can looks like a 2. Sometimes called the "friendly 6."
This is all pretty new to me, but have been told by my therapist that she thinks I am a 2. I am always trying to help someone, and the things you have said about 2s wanting to be the “special friend” because of that level of helping has really resonated with me. Also that I subconsciously think that if I was helpful/kind/caring enough, then I could ease the pain of others. This has landed me in therapy this year, for the first time at age 38. I am seeing that all the loving, helping, caring, serving, conflict avoidance, rule following and hard work (wing 1) cannot “save” those I love. My empathy and taking on of their pain in an effort to relieve them of their pain doesn’t work. This is shattering, the deepest hopes and goals are not attainable by me DUH! I am not God!! Pride!!!
(again 1, a strong family with close relationships is my goal, not ambitious/outward like a 3.... very much avoid the spotlight)
Anyway, would be curious about how ADHD (I have combination-type, inattentive AND hyperactive ADHD) interacts with the types and if it is possibly more likely in certain types?
Thank you! I have been binge watching all your videos this week. So helpful.
@@katieharrisartist Ok, got it. Also, I am available for Skype and FaceTime appointments.
Dr. Tom LaHue I will look that up on your website!
@Clear Line Draught Service this is also me /:
My sister thinks i am a people pleaser but i still think i am just nice
She is a type 5 and i am type 2
Also any data on how birth order, country of birth, and childhood trauma and how it can affect your type? I've heard you mention messages a you received a child...
All of those have a big impact on us. Maybe another series of videos sometime in the future...thanks.
@@Sherbetlemons I see this from a year ago. Though thought I'd give an anecdote that I am actually number 5 out of 6 in mine and I think it actually stemmed from neglect.
personal theory here but i think countries that emphasis community / communal life / have bigger families more probably have more 2s
How can I help an unhealthy type 2 that genuinely terrifies me? I know he's capable of good, but I've glimpsed at what he's capable of (while very unhealthy.)... 5w4 INTP here, and I am not judging him, but... he can be scary (I don't want to put out labels.) But I really hope the feeling in my gut is just paranoia...
Again, I'm not judging him. I want to help him help himself, but I don't know if I can...
Thank you for caring enough to want to help him. Your concern shows your kind heart.
Where did you do your training for Enneagram?
I ordered every book I could find on Amazon about the Enneagram. Read them all.
I am a pastor. Can you recommend me a book on enneagram to begin with ?
summary of 2 in an unhealthy place 24:13
1. 2s give to get, so it's not like they're the saints and martyrs they believe themselves to be.
2. 2s, as martyrs, can't own their own needs, so they project all needs onto others.
3. 2s need to see themselves as wholly pleasing, so they are blind to their own manipulativeness, resentment and self-righteous passive-aggressive covert punishments they can inflict on others for failing to accommodate needs they themselves don't even know they have.
4. 2s don't "need" to become combative and ballistic at 8, that's their path of disintegration - an overcompensation for their own lack of boundaries. They need to establish healthy, accountable boundaries.
5. I think you're sugarcoating and tiptoeing around how self-righteous, manipulative, sabotaging, resentful, passive-aggressive and devoid of personal accountability 2s can be because your wife is a 2 and you need to be able to go home and live your life after she's seen this vid.
I agree . Moreover, I think that some people who are 2 s gossip about others in groups and are nice to that person to their face. I hate when people are not authentic as a 4. In fact, it scares me because I feel that I cannot trust them. I don't like such duplicitous behavior. I also have had experience where some female 2 s might become jealous of your accomplishments such a losing weight etc because they have not figured out how to do that for themselves so instead of just being practical and asking directly for advice on what worked for you, they gossip about how you must have had surgery. I think that' s very mean. When someone accomplishes something that I admire , I tell them what I admire and I ask for advice. I keep it real.
@@MeliMeli66 100% !!! the Type 2 females I know are brutally gossipy and always trying to take you down a peg because they're sooooo competitive, but because of their pride they can't admit it to themselves or anyone else that they have a dark side or an ego, so they revert to passive aggressive undermining while the whole time insisting they are just soooooo sweet and selfless. They air all your faults behind your back like they're so much better than you, just to try to make themselves look better by comparison and then play the innocent victim and martyr to boot. It's maddening. It's like - own your shit!! Face your shadow! Be real! If you have a problem with me confront me and we'll work it out like adults. And also - you're not a saint! You're just a regular old human, like the rest of us. 4's are much more self-aware and honest than 2s IMHO.
Perfectly said ,, especially about wife being a 2 . although I do love you Dr Tom, ❤️I’m coming from an 8 .
@@thabisookiche7243 the comment you addressed to me was not the most articulate - not sure what you're trying to express.
@@thabisookiche7243 sure, to some extent, but the 2 is especially prone to it, being manipulative and needing to appear as wholly good, and blind to their own faults, so the frequency and hypocrisy of their gossip is particularly frustrating.
We minimize the praise because of shame and pride, simultaneously. 😂 We don’t want the spotlight, but we do want to be appreciated. Little private notes are the best, in my opinion.
I love your videos so much Dr. LaHue but I think you're really missing how very dark a 2 can get, not acknowledging that to the same degree you do with other types. The empathy you have for the 2 here is lovely, but I'm not seeing a lot of acknowledgment that they can hurt others, like all types can.
"How can it be a negative?" And "Supporter of someone who couldn't succeed without them" ... I've had 2s in my life *create* bad situations so they could then be the rescuer. Or they insist on being the rescuer and that rescue happens in THEIR way, when someone actually doesn't need to be rescued or when that type of rescue makes things worse. They worry more about the audience who will applaud the rescue, than the person they're rescuing: Their heroics can violate others' agency. You say "they don't want to be a problem" but sometimes it's really that they're obsessed with not *appearing* to be the problem. Like the way you say a 2 will help someone who doesn't need it and overlook the person who does, they'll provide help that's harmful.
I've noticed when a less healthy 2 is in a group of healthy adults who actually *don't* take them for granted and there are no thankless tasks to be done, they'll *create* a problem so they can be heroic. And in order to do so, they are tripping someone up and blaming someone else and *very* stealthy about making sure they come out looking golden. In Enneagram Facebook groups I see a lot of people venting about an 8 who is being abusive and it's actually a 2, 4, or 1.
I don't agree with your definition of empathy. Empathy means having in your head a mental image of other person's mental state, without necessarily feeling anything about it. It's more of a cognitive skill. Feeling exactly what other person feels is impossible, because nobody is psychic.
What type are you? :) For feeling types, it does really work like how dr. LaHue is describing it. As a type 2 I LITERALLY feel it in my own body, nothing cognitive about it
@@mayaleela7749 That's not empathy. That's sympathy or compassion, whatever term you prefer. And you don't feel what the other person is feeling. You feel what you believe the other person is feeling, which in the simplest case might just be a projection.
As a recently self diagnosed 2w3, (and in response to your final question about why 2’s insert themselves into fights between “Jack” and “Jill”), I think that you’re half correct in that we side with “Jill” to curry favor, but I also think by acknowledging “Jill’s” weaknesses and defending them, we are currying favor with “Jack” by signaling our acceptance of other’s faults whilst demonstrating empathy. In short, I think I might be trying to connect with both sides, despite the surface level disagreement with “Jack”.
Any 2’s or people experienced with 2’s, let me know your thoughts!