@@gl22222 Damn man lol That sounds intense! I've witnessed an amateur league softball game turn into a circus because of the ump's bad call. He literally b-lined to his car once he called the final out and had a bunch of players chasing after him.
@@Kanders190 but for football it’s not just where the ball is, it’s where the ball is when your knee or another body part touches down. I don’t really see how a chip would help with that you still need a ref to determine when the player is down
@@JayD73 The "VAR" technology for offside calls in soccer is getting very precise. It is interesting to see how much technology can be used to determine the player position at a specific point in time
This reminds me of the old Subway commercial with the referee that announces over the PA system, "I totally blew that call. In fact, it wasn't even close."
If you play sports you know there are refs who are cheating douchebags sometimes, you still don't want him on your bad side. Vineland got their make-up calls, it was an exciting finish, AND they won! Really this ref should be promoted, i hope he joins professional soccer lol they could use more refs like him ⚽
Repent to Jesus Christ “Each of you should use whatever gift you have received to serve others, as faithful stewards of God’s grace in its various forms.” 1 Peter 4:10 NIV J
@@ChristopherBowenSuperbus Why? The HL official stood there and allowed the White Hat to move the chain back so it was a 1st down. He was just as wrong as the WH. HL had no guts to get in the WH's face and call him out on the spot. Ban from playoffs was good but probably should be ban from being a HS official.
When I played football as a kid refs were always doing this kind of thing. The most egregious one I remember was the ref taking away a touchdown from our team because of a clipping penalty, and then later awarding the opposing team a touchdown on a mid-field hit out of bounds. Probably saw more penalty calls and fudged ball placements in that game than the rest of the season combined. This was peewee league so the players were around 11 or 12, not well polished professionals, but it was also the last playoff game before the 'bowl'. Ended up the ref was the dad of one of the players on the opposite team. They 'won' and went on to the league bowl and we didn't. They got CRUSHED in the bowl because the league brought in refs from another district. Something like a 28 point lead blowout. Seeing 28 points on the board Turns out they weren't a great team without their dad constantly hamstringing the opposition with his calls. That ref was barred from duty AND the facilities for 10 years after that season.
I worked the chains for my highschool team, the reason this seems fishy is because you don't see what is happening off camera. The head linseman is marking the chains on a yard marker so that when they move the chains it's in the same place. We would often be pulling and tugging at the markers and the linseman would be telling us to wait before he had his mark in place. Honestly there's nothing odd going on here, this happened ALL THE TIME, and there was nothing shady about it. The way the ref moved the ball though and that spot was BS I agree.
As a parent of a first time football player who is a senior in HS, this is heartbreaking to see for the kids! They give their all to have someone blatantly and intentionally do that type of crap. Especially as an Adult REF! Complete BS. Yes, it's great the children handled it well, which makes my heart hurt even more!!
Got a relative who is a ref, and he's told me that high school officials are generally taught to move the ball to the closest hash mark, forward or backward depending on where it's spotted, to avoid headaches with the chain gang on the next set of downs. However, they're explicitly told not to do this when a first down conversion is in play AND they're definitely not allowed to manipulate the yard markers at all. Bad look by this crew.
Also, when the ball is around the 10 yard marker on a first down play, most umpires will move the ball either half a yard past or behind that yard line so that it's not ambiguous as to whether or not it should be 1st and Goal or 1st and 10. You don't want to be doing first down measurements on the goal line, too much headache. But yeah, we're all told only to match the ball with a yard marker on plays that start a new series of downs, just to make measuring easier. And that's definitely not the responsibility of the white hat to mark the ball, the umpire and LOS officials do that. White hat is only supposed to eyeball the spot on measurements, never touch. And they should have had another official hold the ball down during that measurement to prevent the ball from moving. Would have probably prevented this entire thing from happening.
you’re absolutely correct, i wouldn’t say we’re “taught” to do this more of like a… unwritten rule lol. But definitely during a close game winding down, 4th down, or inside the 10 we give a true spot.
I used to be a soccer ref and there was a case of a ref cheating. I did the first game as the center ref, and then was a linesman for the second. It was a inner city school playing at a ritzy suburb school, and the ref was also a coach of a youth team from a ritzy suburb school. There was a throw in on my sideline and the suburb player was over the line and I signalled it. And the ref ignored me. I stood didn't move with my flag up, and he kept "not looking" at me. The coach was near me and screaming, but he signalled the kickoff and play continued. That was a travesty of a game since the suburb kids even threw a punch right in front of the ref and he ignored it. I called him a shithead after the game and reported him. He wasn't able to referee for at least one season. There are some referees that are just POS.
Guy sounds like a dick, but stepping on/over the line on a throw in is not a big deal and very often gets played through. Similar to traveling in NBA it has to be an especially egregious example to get called. Maybe you were flagging this way the whole game which can be as disruptive to the game as someone making no calls?
I agree with you that it's probably farther back than the 11, but I can at least see an argument that it could have been at or within a few inches of the 11, since technically we can't see his knee down because of people standing in the way of the camera shot and there's no alternatives. But even that most generous spot should have still been short.
My first thought was 'we will never know, the camera view of the actual spot was blocked by a player' but then when I saw what the ref did, wow, that was blatant!
We got a ref in my town that is so "large" he can't bend over and pick up the ball. He's constantly getting run over by plays and since he can't pick up the ball he just kicks it to where he thinks the ball should be. Everyone is gaining and loosing yardage cuz he can't do the job right. They call him hot dog cuz there's been a number of times he was eating while on the field.
Sometimes with that you just deal with it and it can be funny because it's going both ways. With this it was clearly against the one team so it kinda sucked. I umpire baseball and it's sometimes just hillarious watching a fellow umpire screw up so bad for both teams
@@rileyesmay We generally just laugh about it. But sometimes it's gets kinda annoying. Esp when you see a ref eating a hot dog while on the field... during a play. Gotta love small town high school football. hahaha
I play for Wildwood and had that ref for like 2 of our games last month. Our whole home crowd hated him because of missed calls and misplaced balls throughout both games. I didn't like his calls at all but whenever I talked to him he was always coordial. I would have never guesses he would blatantly cheat like that though. Me and my teammate would always complement his beard🤣
Moving the ball is normal on most plays. In high school ball they're told to move the ball to the closest yard line to avoid headaches later on with moving the chains. Never on 4th down though. Measure first, and if they made the first down, then move the ball to the nearest line (which would always be backwards to the actual stick if they had been rounding to the nearest yard line previously). If they didn't make it, turnover, and then move the ball to the nearest yard line.
I ran a chain gang for many years, and can attest that it’s not unheard of to adjust the chain after it’s initially pulled-for example, if the clip is first placed on the wrong side of the line, or if the chain itself is kinked, or if someone's foot is in the way. But I never saw an official *_re-spot_* the ball like the one in the video did. Wow.
I've played against both of these teams in high school and had that same crew and I can confidnetly say the refs do this all the time. NJ high school refs are notoriously bad and I'm glad it's finally being shown
I used to believe that refs cheated because they had a green light from their league leadership to cheat. The worst I have seen is refs trailing big plays dropping flags after a player breaks one. The best teams cannot normally overcome bad referees
I'll put an end to this real quick. The official did nothing wrong. This zoomed in version doesn't give the full history of this set of downs. I'll post a link to the full game with a timestamp. If anything maybe the umpire was at fault for aggressively stretching the chains, or the chains weren't checked properly pregame. You can clearly see it is 1st and 10 from the 22. We always put the ball on a tic mark to start a new set of downs, unless inside the 10 or 15 yd line. Where they place the ball on 4th down is clearly on the 12 yd line. This would result in a 1st down. The stretching of the chains is where the problem starts. The white hat knows they started on the 22 and he also knows that a 1st down is at the 12. He sees that the stretch pulled the 1st down marker way past where it should have been, so he fixed that issue. Then he rolled the ball to meet the chains, not forward, but sideways, the angle doesn't help at all Here is the full video. Start at 1:59:00 ua-cam.com/video/1YHdZ5oAhDc/v-deo.html
@@jamesmartin4518 In the link the you included it looks like the center of the ball is spotted at the 22 yard line to start the down meaning the tip of the ball (and the chain) is just inside the 22 yard line. When the chain is pulled, it should end up just inside the 12 yard line and not directly on the 12 yard line. When the ball is spotted after the 4th down play, the tip is on the 12 yard line and not the center, meaning it's short of the first down. I can see that the ball was rolled sideways and not moved forward but the ref shouldn't have moved the chain back
@Noah Decoteau If these guys were trained as my crew and I were then in HS the front of the ball is placed on the back edge of the hash mark. From this angle no one can be for certain, but from my knowledge of how most officials spot the ball at this level, I'm comfortable saying that it started on the back edge and after 4th, should have been a 1st down. Personally, if I was the white hat, knowing where the 1st down was and going over and seeing where my Head Linesman spotted then ball, I would've signaled 1st down and not measured. Maybe the coach requested it, but I doubt it given how quickly they did it.
@D G You got me!!! 😆 🤣 😂 I just don't like people going after officials without researching the facts. If you weren't biased you could watch what I presented and see what I said is true. There is no denying the ball started on the 22 and ended on the 12. Unless math has changed that is 10 yards. I understand what it looks like. We had a chain crew this year that was off by a half yard. It was a JV game so I didn't think much of it. We started on the 15, 1st down was at the 5. 4th and 8 to go and they were downed right on the 5. Is it a 1st down? Or not? I signaled 1st because I knew the chains were incorrect. I explained to the coach, he said I'll look at the video, he did and told me I was right. Point here is I will never let a play happen if the chains are not I the correct spot, regardless of the age group.
That was some shameful shit. I'm surprised some wacko sports parent didn't storm the field on that. I don't care about my kids' sports, but if I saw a ref do that for either team I'd flip out.
this is probably why the refs are so bad because none of the good ones want to put up with this kind of parent nonsense. leave the refs alone, their job sucks most of the time. Get the game over with and go home. It doesn't matter.
@@CRneu You're talking about something that didn't happen. Here, the parents, players, and coaches were shockingly lax about the whole thing. Hell, I've gotten thrown out of games for cussing out bad officials, as have countless others. If there weren't any video evidence, the cheating POS would have gotten away with it. And these refs are doing it because they want to do it. Nobody's forcing them to officiate. This isn't their day job. They enjoy it.
White hat is the head honcho in Refereetown, so he gets to make the definitive calls on first down. But that usually doesn't include arbitrarily resetting the chains and spotting the ball after it was spotted.
He did neither. That series started on the 22. 1st down is at the 12. It was clearly on the 12. Whether there was a chain issue or the umpire pulled it a little too hard, I don't know. The white hat knew it was a 1st down, as anyone should that was watching the whole game, not just this small selection of it. I'm really frustrated that everyone is blasting these guys when most people here probably have no idea what actually happens during a game from the refs side.
this reminds me how during one of my games it was 4th quarter and like 20 seconds left on the clock and it was a field goal and it went in and the refs just ended up ruling it off and saying not good because, and i quote, “we weren’t ready.” For the entire game they also were calling us for holding and even had one of our touchdowns revoked and it was a 40 yard touchdown too.
56 had his arms on the outside of the shoulderpads instead of the inside. Doesn't always get called as a hold but definitely understadable that it did. Not saying the previous events didn't contribute, but it wasn't a call out of thin air
Jimmy should stop trying to breakdown football until he has a better understanding of the game. He has misunderstandings like this every time he tries.
@@3xceIIent Some of the people he's criticized incorrectly probably care. He has a responsibility to not put out bad information, his audience is too big.
I love the ref holding the chain, pausing and looking at where the ball was moved to, and just staying there, dumbstruck, and suddenly snap out of it. Might've been the best part.
@@MrZachtheKingsfan This game takes place in South Jersey, which is Flyers country. Eastern HS is in Voorhees, NJ, which is where the Flyers practice facility is. Very few Devils fans south of Rt. 195.
S/O to 55 though. Flawless technique, even broke through a double team that wasn't there lol Edit: looked this up and the referee crew was essentially suspended with a formal review forthcoming, i.e. they're gonna get fired in all likelihood
@@JM_Solo Why? He allowed it to happen and knew full well it was wrong. When ANY official makes a mistake (no a mistake here just cheating) it is the responsibility of the other officials to correct it. The entire crew is guilty because all have a job to do during a measurement. So they all should suffer the same faith.
@@davidroman1654 The guy with the beard who was the main culprit is the crew chief. He has the final say on calls so the other referees can only HIGHLY recommend corrections. But if the CC says first down then thats what the others have to go by
@@nickoftime602 You are correct that the WH has the final say. But the other officials can come together to discuss the situation. They did not do their job. I was a HS official for several years and had to stand my ground to make sure we had the correct call. They didn't
There might be a point here though….the chains were not stretched all the way out BEFORE the play. If the players are playing to get to the flags and the ball is parallel to the flag….the ref has some leeway. Handle the chains right in the first place…. I mean how do folks see this?
FYI, that's the 12 yard line. The 10's always have a full line across the field. And 56 definitely held - you can tell because of how he's behind the guy but still slowing the guy down.
@Warblerab 295 wait... so I didn't reply fast enough so you tagged me a day later? Are you that desperate for attention? Cause here I am. Bask in your glory lol
I grew up playing these two highschools when I played Eastern had Flacco's son or nephew or some shit and he trashed us, cool to see you doing a breakdown on 2 close teams that I know.
Question: what's the racial breakdown of each schools town? My uncle was a high school ref (eventually became one of the nfl replacement refs) and him and all the refs i met were suuuuuuuper racist and would mess up calls against black schools intentionally.
@@MyBiPolarBearMax race, always race. if people would/could just admit that EVERY race is racist and that that's ok and actually natural, maybe we could get back to living life
@@playstupidgameswinstupidpr7065 His comment is only describing one event of racism, not saying that only white people are racist. I mean, do you think that white refs don’t sometimes make racially-biased calls in some areas?
We had a ref in a high school game that was constantly throwing flags when there wasn't even a penalty. We took him out on the second half kickoff, he left on a stretcher.
Thats blatant cheating!!! He should never be allowed to ref any football game ever again. I would love to hear his excuse. And it was clear that the holding call on 56 was a makeup call for sure.
Reminds me when my winless team was up against a team that dropped out of the playoffs to avoid playing Valor (CMC's high school). Teams that don't make playoffs get one last game, which was this game. We were actually winning. Fairly nicely. Momentum was enormous for us. Until our DE DEMOLISHED their QB running and option read. He got lit up passing back to the tailing runner and we got flagged for roughing the passer... On a running play. Couple other questionable calls would happen that game and we ended up losing by like, 10 due to some bad calls at critical stops
In little league my uncle called me safe while stealing third while I was clearly out... when the tag was applied I knew I was out, and was about to walk to the dugout, I heard SAFE!! Thanks uncle Jim
"NJSIAA has reviewed the video of the Vineland versus Eastern state playoff football game and, in agreement with the New Jersey Football Officials Association, has determined that the entire officiating crew - pending a hearing next week with the South Chapter of the New Jersey Football Officials Association - will not be assigned future postseason games." So there is an investigation.
This is depressing and infuriating, especially with it happening to high school kids. This is why refs should not be afraid of calling out a blatantly terrible calls. The ref holding the marker knew that wasn't a first down. You can call a huddle to call out the error quietly and discreetly but when it's something this obvious, one of the other refs HAS to at least say something.
I've seen Highschool umps stretch the flag as far as possible and then tilt the flag away from the ball at a 45 degree angle to deny a 1st down. This was at Friendship Christian in Lebanon TN.
As a former HS basketball official, and from my perspective, post-season assignments are what you work the entire off-season and regular season to do. Yes, regular season games with a competitive schedule and good schools are important and nothing to be sneezed at, but post-season is where it's at (and I can say this having never gotten a post-season assignment - not the reason I hung up my whistle btw). Them being banned from post-season is a big deal IOW.
@@pummer It's more likely the ref pool is too shallow to kick them out completely. You can use your best for the playoffs because there's less games to cover than in the regular season.
Totally true, Kevin...as a former baseball umpire and soccer referee, the post-season assignments were everything. That's the biggest penalty to throw at them.
So I think there more to this than most people realize. The optics of this situation are horrible, but when starting a new set of downs on a well marked field like this you are always starting on a tick. Meaning the chains start on a yard line and end on a yard. When you look at the chains when they are stretched out in goes to the half yard beyond the tick the ball is spotted at. With that said the line to gain would have been reached. So what it appears the ref did was move the stick to where it should have end based on the start of the series. Like I said optics are horrible, but a yard marker should never be in-between to yard marks. Upon further review the series start with first down at the 22 yard and the player was marked down at the 12 yard line. If the chains are set correctly and the clip is placed correctly thats a first down. The ref knew the line to gain for a first down and corrected the forward to where it should have ended.
That was a really good play with the little running back hiding. Great play design by the coach and great execution by the players (except for the fumble)
Couldn’t imagine reffing a high school game and being called out as a cheater on jomboy? The referee shouldn’t be allowed to ref a pickup game on my front yard.
I remember during a soccer match in a tournament our ref was blatantly in favor of the other team. Even the players on the other team who weren’t total dicks noticed it but they didn’t say anything. We tried going to the assistant ref and he pretty much admitted to seeing the exact opposite of what the main ref was saying but said “just keep your heads down, keep playing.” Abysmal.
As a soccer ref, ARs cannot insist, only assist. It’s a tough pickle that the AR was in, and you should never ask the AR if they saw something different cause you put them in a catch-22.
LOL...I'm not sure that Jomboy has the requisite F1 knowledge to be able to adequately cover that. (Even people WITH the requisite knowledge were stumped, though, in fairness LOL)
@@MrDuneedon haha very true. But then again, I think it’d be interesting to hear the perspective from someone who doesn’t know a lot about the sport (so therefore no bias) and just reads the rules and watches the situation
Funny is it still didn't secure the win and the entire crew was under investigation after the incident, and regardless of the investigation outcome, was no longer allowed to officiate an playoff games... I feel bad for the other refs because it was only the one ref who should be under investigation. It was clear to everyone else on that crew, he did sometime sketchy. I hope they all threw him under the bus
That is why there should be reviews or challenges for at least high school playoff football cuz this kind of shit is a absolute disgrace to high school sports and if this effects playoff games or seeding into the playoffs for high school football and it makes refs even more hated for all their inconsistency and controversial call in all the sports
Had something like this happen to our team back in 2007. Our coach called for a spot - the ref looked right at him and respotted the ball a half a yard forward, giving the other team a first down. Luckily, it was just a preseason game and we won anyway. Still made us all madder than hell at the time.
Hey Jomboy, check out where the other post is at after the last first down. The guy on the 22.5 yard line doesn’t even bother holding the post the last play or two so when they stretch the chain he just picks a new spot for the post. Bad ref but the crew holding the sticks created that issue.
They're supposed to have a marker connected to the chains on a 5-yard line that acts as a reference point for measurements and to keep the spot. If they had one down like they should have, then the location of the back post doesn't matter past the initial spotting of that marker on a new series of downs. If the chains get dropped (I haven't seen the other video you're talking about, but we train people to do that if they feel they are in danger, so it's not necessarily a mistake), then they're reset using that marker. If a measurement starts, the chain is pulled taut with someone holding that marker to act as an anchor, not the back post. Only time something like that would be an issue is if, for some reason, the chains get dropped and they don't use that marker as a reference for setting them back up, then a first down is called on that improper spot without using a measurement. That didn't happen in this case.
@@Falcon4224 So do you think it was cheating or the correct call but just bad optics?? Or what's the verdict?? You seem like one of the only people who actually knows what they're talking about here. And im curious lol
@@triangle1332 Without context, if it was just moving the chains, I could see it being considered an innocent, but very bad looking, attempt at fixing the chains (realistically, someone should have been anchoring at that 5-yard mark to prevent something like that from happening. A full wide view of the entire chains would be helpful to see exactly what was going on). But changing the spot of the ball? No way in hell there's a reason to do that. It's not the white hat's job to spot the ball, they're not to touch the ball during a measurement. I hesitate to call it "cheating", though I understand why people would call it that. But it's definitely a huge breach in procedure that unfairly impacted the result of the game and gave one team a clear advantage they shouldn't have had.
Can we take a second to laugh about how the chains judged a ball on the 11 yard line to be a first down, and then cheating ref restarted play at the 12 yard line?? Insane.
What a bewildering & shameful display by a ref during a high school football game, whose placement of the ball was far from integrity. I was glad to see Vineland come back and score a touchdown to win the game a second time.
Also a ref. During a measurement, the "anchor point" for the chains is matching one specific link in the chain up with a major yard line, which would have been the 20 in this case (off-screen). Not too weird if it was moving a bit forward and back during the stretching as an off-screen official keeps the link on that line. The white hat moving the ball though . . . best case scenario, the chains got stretched too far away, he could see it was a first down looking at it straight on, and moved the ball instead of the chains. It may just look bad because the camera is at an off angle. This should be a "never do" though, precisely because it looks suspect even in the best case scenarios. So yeah, still terrible in the best of scenarios. Also, I'm suspect that the tackle had a missed facemask- grasping any part of the helmet, including the back edge, actually counts as a facemask. Little hard to see because of the camera angle, but its possible this should have all been moot because of a missed penalty.
![UCF Professor Richard Quinn accuses class of cheating [Original]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/rbzJTTDO9f4/mqdefault.jpg)
Ref’s worst nightmare is making it onto a Jomboy video
There was one ref, well, umpire, that made it on a Jomboy video for being really good once.
@@Tommy9834 I think it was an umpire with like 99% accurate calls???
@@MrSpeedyAce yep
His career is done
@@gl22222 Damn man lol That sounds intense! I've witnessed an amateur league softball game turn into a circus because of the ump's bad call. He literally b-lined to his car once he called the final out and had a bunch of players chasing after him.
I was hoping you'd cover this. "That ref cheated." Perfect way to sum up the whole situation.
Interestingly, it looks like from where the chains originally were, that he had gotten the first down anyway.
@@Joe_Okey The second chain was not stretched out on the side line. It had a good yard or more of slack.
@@DragonBank I noticed that, too late.
holy cow, when i saw the video angle i was thinking who are you to call someone a cheater with that terrible angle and then wooahh !
900th like
i still love that refs eyeball place the ball every play and then have to act super precise with the chains, so wild
That way there's only one point of arbitration in the marking of first downs. It's quite genius actually
Someone on an NFL broadcast said "Why don't they just put a microchip for GPS in the football?"
@@soulknife20 Yup. Soccer leagues have this everywhere. NFL and NHL could benefit it from it greatly.
@@Kanders190 but for football it’s not just where the ball is, it’s where the ball is when your knee or another body part touches down. I don’t really see how a chip would help with that you still need a ref to determine when the player is down
@@JayD73 The "VAR" technology for offside calls in soccer is getting very precise. It is interesting to see how much technology can be used to determine the player position at a specific point in time
The 2nd ref pausing after realizing what happened is hilarious 😂
This reminds me of the old Subway commercial with the referee that announces over the PA system, "I totally blew that call. In fact, it wasn't even close."
"But don't worry. I will penalize the other team in the 2nd half for no reason just to even things out."
Those Vineland highschoolers handled that situation waaay better than I would have, and I'm a grown ass adult. Mad respect.
It's more than a game, it's a lesson in life.
Kids are way more mature than adults fyi
If you play sports you know there are refs who are cheating douchebags sometimes, you still don't want him on your bad side. Vineland got their make-up calls, it was an exciting finish, AND they won! Really this ref should be promoted, i hope he joins professional soccer lol they could use more refs like him ⚽
Repent to Jesus Christ “Each of you should use whatever gift you have received to serve others, as faithful stewards of God’s grace in its various forms.”
1 Peter 4:10 NIV
J
@@clarencethomas01 : He's NFL-ready on Day One.
The sideline ref's reaction, just staring down in disbelief 💀😂🤣😭
Yeah, poor guy, lol. "Uhhhhh, ok then!"
Na was better when the dude on black team put his hands up like wtf u doing he even knew he was wrong
He should have walked off the field at that exact moment. That's hard to do, though.
I'll be pissed if he's included in the playoff ban.
@@ChristopherBowenSuperbus Why? The HL official stood there and allowed the White Hat to move the chain back so it was a 1st down. He was just as wrong as the WH. HL had no guts to get in the WH's face and call him out on the spot. Ban from playoffs was good but probably should be ban from being a HS official.
the not cheating ref was utterly bamboozled
Guy was just staring down blankly lmao
@@AAA-bg6gm "but... But... The ball was back there?"
He should’ve said something. It would’ve been very hard to do, he probably wishes he had done something.
@@CloudCobra22 what could he have done? The ref has final say.
Haha, I was chuckling the whole time Jomboy was going over that refs reaction. Poor guy, lol.
When I played football as a kid refs were always doing this kind of thing. The most egregious one I remember was the ref taking away a touchdown from our team because of a clipping penalty, and then later awarding the opposing team a touchdown on a mid-field hit out of bounds. Probably saw more penalty calls and fudged ball placements in that game than the rest of the season combined. This was peewee league so the players were around 11 or 12, not well polished professionals, but it was also the last playoff game before the 'bowl'.
Ended up the ref was the dad of one of the players on the opposite team. They 'won' and went on to the league bowl and we didn't. They got CRUSHED in the bowl because the league brought in refs from another district. Something like a 28 point lead blowout. Seeing 28 points on the board Turns out they weren't a great team without their dad constantly hamstringing the opposition with his calls. That ref was barred from duty AND the facilities for 10 years after that season.
Cheating kids like that is pretty pathetic. The other dads shouldve kicked his ass.
That's messed up. Thanks for telling me your story. He got what he deserves
Bet he went to the Pac12, where they have zero problem hiring refs who will do that shit.
I worked the chains for my highschool team, the reason this seems fishy is because you don't see what is happening off camera. The head linseman is marking the chains on a yard marker so that when they move the chains it's in the same place. We would often be pulling and tugging at the markers and the linseman would be telling us to wait before he had his mark in place. Honestly there's nothing odd going on here, this happened ALL THE TIME, and there was nothing shady about it.
The way the ref moved the ball though and that spot was BS I agree.
Sounds like cap
As a parent of a first time football player who is a senior in HS, this is heartbreaking to see for the kids! They give their all to have someone blatantly and intentionally do that type of crap. Especially as an Adult REF! Complete BS. Yes, it's great the children handled it well, which makes my heart hurt even more!!
Got a relative who is a ref, and he's told me that high school officials are generally taught to move the ball to the closest hash mark, forward or backward depending on where it's spotted, to avoid headaches with the chain gang on the next set of downs. However, they're explicitly told not to do this when a first down conversion is in play AND they're definitely not allowed to manipulate the yard markers at all. Bad look by this crew.
Also, when the ball is around the 10 yard marker on a first down play, most umpires will move the ball either half a yard past or behind that yard line so that it's not ambiguous as to whether or not it should be 1st and Goal or 1st and 10. You don't want to be doing first down measurements on the goal line, too much headache.
But yeah, we're all told only to match the ball with a yard marker on plays that start a new series of downs, just to make measuring easier. And that's definitely not the responsibility of the white hat to mark the ball, the umpire and LOS officials do that. White hat is only supposed to eyeball the spot on measurements, never touch.
And they should have had another official hold the ball down during that measurement to prevent the ball from moving. Would have probably prevented this entire thing from happening.
you’re absolutely correct, i wouldn’t say we’re “taught” to do this more of like a… unwritten rule lol. But definitely during a close game winding down, 4th down, or inside the 10 we give a true spot.
It makes sense, and is pretty insignificant after a 1st down between the 5yd lines.
NFL officials will always spot the ball right on a yard marker. Especially after punts and first downs.
Thanks for the long version of..... The Ref Cheated.
I used to be a soccer ref and there was a case of a ref cheating. I did the first game as the center ref, and then was a linesman for the second. It was a inner city school playing at a ritzy suburb school, and the ref was also a coach of a youth team from a ritzy suburb school. There was a throw in on my sideline and the suburb player was over the line and I signalled it. And the ref ignored me. I stood didn't move with my flag up, and he kept "not looking" at me. The coach was near me and screaming, but he signalled the kickoff and play continued. That was a travesty of a game since the suburb kids even threw a punch right in front of the ref and he ignored it. I called him a shithead after the game and reported him. He wasn't able to referee for at least one season.
There are some referees that are just POS.
Well done sir
Guy sounds like a dick, but stepping on/over the line on a throw in is not a big deal and very often gets played through. Similar to traveling in NBA it has to be an especially egregious example to get called. Maybe you were flagging this way the whole game which can be as disruptive to the game as someone making no calls?
Eat the rich
@@mikewaters2126 Eat Jomboy?
@@Kshea44ify jimmy isn't really rich. Unless you count love as currency, in which case he's swimming in it.
Not only did they pull the chains, they gave them like an extra yard on the spot. They put it at the 11, it was at most at the 12.5 yard line
2:33 - They put it at the 12, but I understand the confusion.
Should of been at the 13 IMO
I agree with you that it's probably farther back than the 11, but I can at least see an argument that it could have been at or within a few inches of the 11, since technically we can't see his knee down because of people standing in the way of the camera shot and there's no alternatives. But even that most generous spot should have still been short.
CORRECT! Downs began at 22, ball is at 12. New downs. The chains messed this up.
@@RoyalMela At 0:39, the referee is near the 22, so I don't think that is the problem.
As a high school athlete… this is all too common :/
My High Schools Refs always cheat and always get cheated too.
Agreed very annoying
My first thought was 'we will never know, the camera view of the actual spot was blocked by a player' but then when I saw what the ref did, wow, that was blatant!
"That was a little suspect there"
understatement of the week. Possibly the month.
We got a ref in my town that is so "large" he can't bend over and pick up the ball. He's constantly getting run over by plays and since he can't pick up the ball he just kicks it to where he thinks the ball should be. Everyone is gaining and loosing yardage cuz he can't do the job right. They call him hot dog cuz there's been a number of times he was eating while on the field.
Sometimes with that you just deal with it and it can be funny because it's going both ways. With this it was clearly against the one team so it kinda sucked. I umpire baseball and it's sometimes just hillarious watching a fellow umpire screw up so bad for both teams
@@rileyesmay We generally just laugh about it. But sometimes it's gets kinda annoying. Esp when you see a ref eating a hot dog while on the field... during a play. Gotta love small town high school football. hahaha
cuz, cuz
You’re full of it
I would love to see video of this guy. It would be hilarious...
I play for Wildwood and had that ref for like 2 of our games last month. Our whole home crowd hated him because of missed calls and misplaced balls throughout both games. I didn't like his calls at all but whenever I talked to him he was always coordial. I would have never guesses he would blatantly cheat like that though.
Me and my teammate would always complement his beard🤣
Moving the ball is normal on most plays. In high school ball they're told to move the ball to the closest yard line to avoid headaches later on with moving the chains. Never on 4th down though. Measure first, and if they made the first down, then move the ball to the nearest line (which would always be backwards to the actual stick if they had been rounding to the nearest yard line previously). If they didn't make it, turnover, and then move the ball to the nearest yard line.
He has a great beard
Yeah he was trying to be nice so his cheating would go less noticed.
"complement the beard" Gen Z has like a 2% success rate with compliment/complement
Wildwood high?
Bro this makes me so happy just to see teams from Jersey actually being on Jomboy
I ran a chain gang for many years, and can attest that it’s not unheard of to adjust the chain after it’s initially pulled-for example, if the clip is first placed on the wrong side of the line, or if the chain itself is kinked, or if someone's foot is in the way. But I never saw an official *_re-spot_* the ball like the one in the video did. Wow.
I don't think he does, it's the shape of the ball and our angle. He just rolls it so it touches
Ref cheating? I've never heard that before
yeah that _NEVER HAPPENS_ in the big leagues 😂
They usually try to make it less obvious at least
That is hilarious. I guess the ref took the “If you ain’t cheating you ain’t trying” mindset to heart 🤣
2:39 I really wanna know what the ref in the black hat was thinking lmao
exactly, he looks shook
"Uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuhh. Okay then"
Ah shoot. Not again.
No need to repeat what Jomboy said. We all heard it
That is a "OK . . . Ummmmm . . . that just happened . . . . is there a hole I can crawl into and hide? Maybe if I don't look up no one will see me"
I've played against both of these teams in high school and had that same crew and I can confidnetly say the refs do this all the time. NJ high school refs are notoriously bad and I'm glad it's finally being shown
MY DAD WAS A HIGH SCHOOL NJ FOOTBALL REF AND I CAN TELL YOU THIS IS ACCURATE. Although he'd argue until his grave they are good at their jobs...
Get your truth out there!
I used to believe that refs cheated because they had a green light from their league leadership to cheat. The worst I have seen is refs trailing big plays dropping flags after a player breaks one. The best teams cannot normally overcome bad referees
Every time someone says "the ref cheated" they're just complaining about a questionable call. Not anymore because this... well this is cheating
I'll put an end to this real quick. The official did nothing wrong. This zoomed in version doesn't give the full history of this set of downs. I'll post a link to the full game with a timestamp. If anything maybe the umpire was at fault for aggressively stretching the chains, or the chains weren't checked properly pregame. You can clearly see it is 1st and 10 from the 22. We always put the ball on a tic mark to start a new set of downs, unless inside the 10 or 15 yd line. Where they place the ball on 4th down is clearly on the 12 yd line. This would result in a 1st down. The stretching of the chains is where the problem starts. The white hat knows they started on the 22 and he also knows that a 1st down is at the 12. He sees that the stretch pulled the 1st down marker way past where it should have been, so he fixed that issue. Then he rolled the ball to meet the chains, not forward, but sideways, the angle doesn't help at all Here is the full video. Start at 1:59:00
ua-cam.com/video/1YHdZ5oAhDc/v-deo.html
@@jamesmartin4518 In the link the you included it looks like the center of the ball is spotted at the 22 yard line to start the down meaning the tip of the ball (and the chain) is just inside the 22 yard line. When the chain is pulled, it should end up just inside the 12 yard line and not directly on the 12 yard line. When the ball is spotted after the 4th down play, the tip is on the 12 yard line and not the center, meaning it's short of the first down. I can see that the ball was rolled sideways and not moved forward but the ref shouldn't have moved the chain back
@Noah Decoteau If these guys were trained as my crew and I were then in HS the front of the ball is placed on the back edge of the hash mark. From this angle no one can be for certain, but from my knowledge of how most officials spot the ball at this level, I'm comfortable saying that it started on the back edge and after 4th, should have been a 1st down. Personally, if I was the white hat, knowing where the 1st down was and going over and seeing where my Head Linesman spotted then ball, I would've signaled 1st down and not measured. Maybe the coach requested it, but I doubt it given how quickly they did it.
@@jamesmartin4518 Hey, I found the ref in the video.
@D G You got me!!! 😆 🤣 😂
I just don't like people going after officials without researching the facts. If you weren't biased you could watch what I presented and see what I said is true. There is no denying the ball started on the 22 and ended on the 12. Unless math has changed that is 10 yards. I understand what it looks like. We had a chain crew this year that was off by a half yard. It was a JV game so I didn't think much of it. We started on the 15, 1st down was at the 5. 4th and 8 to go and they were downed right on the 5. Is it a 1st down? Or not? I signaled 1st because I knew the chains were incorrect. I explained to the coach, he said I'll look at the video, he did and told me I was right. Point here is I will never let a play happen if the chains are not I the correct spot, regardless of the age group.
That was some shameful shit. I'm surprised some wacko sports parent didn't storm the field on that. I don't care about my kids' sports, but if I saw a ref do that for either team I'd flip out.
this is probably why the refs are so bad because none of the good ones want to put up with this kind of parent nonsense. leave the refs alone, their job sucks most of the time. Get the game over with and go home. It doesn't matter.
I can tell you will be a horrible parent
Leggo, that translates to;
You are that “wacko sports parent”.
Doubt any parents saw it till after.
@@CRneu You're talking about something that didn't happen. Here, the parents, players, and coaches were shockingly lax about the whole thing. Hell, I've gotten thrown out of games for cussing out bad officials, as have countless others. If there weren't any video evidence, the cheating POS would have gotten away with it.
And these refs are doing it because they want to do it. Nobody's forcing them to officiate. This isn't their day job. They enjoy it.
White hat is the head honcho in Refereetown, so he gets to make the definitive calls on first down. But that usually doesn't include arbitrarily resetting the chains and spotting the ball after it was spotted.
He did neither. That series started on the 22. 1st down is at the 12. It was clearly on the 12. Whether there was a chain issue or the umpire pulled it a little too hard, I don't know. The white hat knew it was a 1st down, as anyone should that was watching the whole game, not just this small selection of it. I'm really frustrated that everyone is blasting these guys when most people here probably have no idea what actually happens during a game from the refs side.
this reminds me how during one of my games it was 4th quarter and like 20 seconds left on the clock and it was a field goal and it went in and the refs just ended up ruling it off and saying not good because, and i quote, “we weren’t ready.” For the entire game they also were calling us for holding and even had one of our touchdowns revoked and it was a 40 yard touchdown too.
from Vineland. Crazy to see this get so big it ended up getting a jomboy video
Other refs reaction is the best lol. He’s like “....alright we doing this tonight” 😂
Thanks Jomdaddy
56 had his arms on the outside of the shoulderpads instead of the inside. Doesn't always get called as a hold but definitely understadable that it did. Not saying the previous events didn't contribute, but it wasn't a call out of thin air
Yeah 100% a hold
Jimmy should stop trying to breakdown football until he has a better understanding of the game. He has misunderstandings like this every time he tries.
@@Razor_Ramen Who cares? It's fine.
@@3xceIIent Some of the people he's criticized incorrectly probably care. He has a responsibility to not put out bad information, his audience is too big.
It’s a very ticky tack call in high school though.
I love the ref holding the chain, pausing and looking at where the ball was moved to, and just staying there, dumbstruck, and suddenly snap out of it. Might've been the best part.
Referees are an absolute joke in this day and age and I wish someone would come up with a replacement for all of them.
It needs more appreciation how he shortens the chain AND moves the ball rather than just shortening the chain enough.
That’s what made it so obvious. What an idiot
All refs should know by now that Jomboy is always watching.
Jomboy song lyrics:
Every play you make
And every rule you break
Every spot you fake
Every out you stake
I’ll be watching you
I'm watching you, Wazowski. Allllways watching. Always
we should bring some homemade signs to the games..."Jomboy is watching you"
@@free2Lib count me in!
Jeez at least be less obvious about it like NFL refs
They at least know to fudge the spot before they bring the chains out.
Imagine that, corruption in New Jersey. Who could have ever seen that
I mean it is a democrat run state.
At least the result was the football version of "ball dont lie"
This was in Jersey?
If they’re betting on HS football anywhere , it’s NJ.
Texas would like a word.
Nevada just joined the chat.
not so much. fight after the game maybe, but not bet on the game.
If Jomboy hadn’t mentioned this was Jersey, I think the Devils pants would have been a clear giveaway lol
@@MrZachtheKingsfan This game takes place in South Jersey, which is Flyers country. Eastern HS is in Voorhees, NJ, which is where the Flyers practice facility is. Very few Devils fans south of Rt. 195.
S/O to 55 though. Flawless technique, even broke through a double team that wasn't there lol
Edit: looked this up and the referee crew was essentially suspended with a formal review forthcoming, i.e. they're gonna get fired in all likelihood
Hopefully the poor stupefied line judge keeps his job
@@JM_Solo Why? He allowed it to happen and knew full well it was wrong. When ANY official makes a mistake (no a mistake here just cheating) it is the responsibility of the other officials to correct it. The entire crew is guilty because all have a job to do during a measurement. So they all should suffer the same faith.
@@davidroman1654 The guy with the beard who was the main culprit is the crew chief. He has the final say on calls so the other referees can only HIGHLY recommend corrections. But if the CC says first down then thats what the others have to go by
@@nickoftime602 You are correct that the WH has the final say. But the other officials can come together to discuss the situation. They did not do their job. I was a HS official for several years and had to stand my ground to make sure we had the correct call. They didn't
@@davidroman1654 nah they can’t do anything it’s futile. But I think he threw the flag to give them a better chance because they got screwed by WH.
I went to Vineland High School. Nice to see Jomboy expose the cheat even at the high school level.
There might be a point here though….the chains were not stretched all the way out BEFORE the play. If the players are playing to get to the flags and the ball is parallel to the flag….the ref has some leeway. Handle the chains right in the first place…. I mean how do folks see this?
Even the holding call was horrible.
FYI, that's the 12 yard line. The 10's always have a full line across the field. And 56 definitely held - you can tell because of how he's behind the guy but still slowing the guy down.
I agree on both counts. Surprised JomBoy called that the 11
The ref in the white hat is definitely having problems at home
Refball strikes again
That ref should be in jail. That was truly disgusting and an affront to all sports.
Being from Texas, it always trips me out to see empty stands at these games. And this was a playoff game!
No, it was not a playoff game. This was part of an invitational tournament for teams that did not make the playoffs.
There is much more fun things to do in life than wasting it at games :😀
Said someone who is not a football fan.
@@moonscar119 again said someone who is not a football fan. ;)
@Warblerab 295 wait... so I didn't reply fast enough so you tagged me a day later? Are you that desperate for attention? Cause here I am. Bask in your glory lol
I grew up playing these two highschools when I played Eastern had Flacco's son or nephew or some shit and he trashed us, cool to see you doing a breakdown on 2 close teams that I know.
Question: what's the racial breakdown of each schools town?
My uncle was a high school ref (eventually became one of the nfl replacement refs) and him and all the refs i met were suuuuuuuper racist and would mess up calls against black schools intentionally.
@@MyBiPolarBearMax race, always race. if people would/could just admit that EVERY race is racist and that that's ok and actually natural, maybe we could get back to living life
@@MyBiPolarBearMax Vineland is a low income district, Eastern is a regional school that has some high income and some low income.
@@MyBiPolarBearMax bro you are delusional lol. Always blaming race. It’s generally never the case
@@playstupidgameswinstupidpr7065 His comment is only describing one event of racism, not saying that only white people are racist. I mean, do you think that white refs don’t sometimes make racially-biased calls in some areas?
I really enjoy your content MORE JOMBOY.Always great stuff Thank you Jomboy
He maybe got to the 13 but definitely was short of the 12. The placement at the 11 yard line is insane.
They marked it at the 12, jomboy is wrong
@@timmyj55 Jomboy is usually so accurate that Ill watch something and doubt my eyes. You right though,
Good on those guys for holding it together. In my youth id probably be getting a free ride to a hotel with bars 🤣
We had a ref in a high school game that was constantly throwing flags when there wasn't even a penalty. We took him out on the second half kickoff, he left on a stretcher.
Who let David letterman ref a football game anyway?
Imagine being the refs and waking up to this video.
Thats blatant cheating!!! He should never be allowed to ref any football game ever again. I would love to hear his excuse. And it was clear that the holding call on 56 was a makeup call for sure.
Reminds me when my winless team was up against a team that dropped out of the playoffs to avoid playing Valor (CMC's high school). Teams that don't make playoffs get one last game, which was this game.
We were actually winning. Fairly nicely. Momentum was enormous for us. Until our DE DEMOLISHED their QB running and option read. He got lit up passing back to the tailing runner and we got flagged for roughing the passer... On a running play. Couple other questionable calls would happen that game and we ended up losing by like, 10 due to some bad calls at critical stops
Are we not going to talk about his straight Wizard beard?! Ol' Gandalf making magic with that spot
I initially thought he might be wearing a face mask, but then it dawned that being responsible wouldn't quite fit the overall vibe there.
In little league my uncle called me safe while stealing third while I was clearly out... when the tag was applied I knew I was out, and was about to walk to the dugout, I heard SAFE!! Thanks uncle Jim
Things like this give people a false sense of confidence where kids playing fairly or at a disadvantage will never shine
I demand a full investigation
"NJSIAA has reviewed the video of the Vineland versus Eastern state playoff football game and, in agreement with the New Jersey Football Officials Association, has determined that the entire officiating crew - pending a hearing next week with the South Chapter of the New Jersey Football Officials Association - will not be assigned future postseason games."
So there is an investigation.
Thanks for *demanding* it. Without your comment, there would have been no investigation!
Looks just like when my school franklin high, was in the state finals at m&t stadium.
Apparently, there's gambling going on in HS sports as well. Why would the ref do that?
This is depressing and infuriating, especially with it happening to high school kids. This is why refs should not be afraid of calling out a blatantly terrible calls. The ref holding the marker knew that wasn't a first down. You can call a huddle to call out the error quietly and discreetly but when it's something this obvious, one of the other refs HAS to at least say something.
It's New Jersey. What else did you expect? That white hat probably had a grand riding on the game.
I've seen Highschool umps stretch the flag as far as possible and then tilt the flag away from the ball at a 45 degree angle to deny a 1st down. This was at Friendship Christian in Lebanon TN.
If a school identifies with religion I automatically assume they are rotten to the core
@@MewtwoStruckBack I have found the private church schools to be the worst cheaters around. I guess cheating pleases GOD, or something?
still not worse than this one.
As a former HS basketball official, and from my perspective, post-season assignments are what you work the entire off-season and regular season to do. Yes, regular season games with a competitive schedule and good schools are important and nothing to be sneezed at, but post-season is where it's at (and I can say this having never gotten a post-season assignment - not the reason I hung up my whistle btw). Them being banned from post-season is a big deal IOW.
The fact that this ref is going to be allowed to continue to officiate reg season games is absurd... like are you saying the reg season doesnt matter?
@@pummer It's more likely the ref pool is too shallow to kick them out completely. You can use your best for the playoffs because there's less games to cover than in the regular season.
@@pummer Not at all, just a response to Jomboy's question if officials view post-season assignments as something valuable.
Totally true, Kevin...as a former baseball umpire and soccer referee, the post-season assignments were everything. That's the biggest penalty to throw at them.
So I think there more to this than most people realize. The optics of this situation are horrible, but when starting a new set of downs on a well marked field like this you are always starting on a tick. Meaning the chains start on a yard line and end on a yard. When you look at the chains when they are stretched out in goes to the half yard beyond the tick the ball is spotted at. With that said the line to gain would have been reached. So what it appears the ref did was move the stick to where it should have end based on the start of the series. Like I said optics are horrible, but a yard marker should never be in-between to yard marks. Upon further review the series start with first down at the 22 yard and the player was marked down at the 12 yard line. If the chains are set correctly and the clip is placed correctly thats a first down. The ref knew the line to gain for a first down and corrected the forward to where it should have ended.
I was like "wow this guy sounds a lot like JomBoy" not even realizing my feed automatically went into his video 😂🤦
LOL the announcer's reaction is hilarious
That was a really good play with the little running back hiding. Great play design by the coach and great execution by the players (except for the fumble)
It was a well designed play. They must have practiced it often because it came off as planned. (Except for the fumble) of course.
The ref is trying to build his resume for the NFL. He would fit right in that league
Dude has a voicemail from the books in Vegas
That is my home town! Fighting Clans are tough through and through. I’m so glad the football team has risen, we were bad back in the day…
That’s unbelievable. Hopefully that ref got fired.
Probably got recruited by the NFL
@@electrostatic1 more like recruited by the Pac12 Conference.
he could not have been more obvious 😭
Couldn’t imagine reffing a high school game and being called out as a cheater on jomboy? The referee shouldn’t be allowed to ref a pickup game on my front yard.
I remember during a soccer match in a tournament our ref was blatantly in favor of the other team. Even the players on the other team who weren’t total dicks noticed it but they didn’t say anything. We tried going to the assistant ref and he pretty much admitted to seeing the exact opposite of what the main ref was saying but said “just keep your heads down, keep playing.”
Abysmal.
As a soccer ref, ARs cannot insist, only assist. It’s a tough pickle that the AR was in, and you should never ask the AR if they saw something different cause you put them in a catch-22.
@@Dimewise_R I understand that but we really had no choice. It was so blatant we couldn’t believe it.
Ref holding the chain knew. You could see him processing what he just saw.
Could you cover the 2021 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix sometime? Would be interested in hearing your analysis and perspective
LOL...I'm not sure that Jomboy has the requisite F1 knowledge to be able to adequately cover that. (Even people WITH the requisite knowledge were stumped, though, in fairness LOL)
@@MrDuneedon haha very true. But then again, I think it’d be interesting to hear the perspective from someone who doesn’t know a lot about the sport (so therefore no bias) and just reads the rules and watches the situation
@@agent6599 I absolutely agree!
@@MrDuneedon cheers dude!
0:00 Look how big of an absolutely massive unit that 76 is lol
I know 2 bigger and better 76s
@@primeministersinister625 I know 3
@@darksu6947 I got john and joe alt, whos yours?
The ref didn't cheat, he secured the first down to fortify the game and prevent the wrong outcome.
Lol, fortify the game. Yep, sounds right.
What? He moved the ball forward and the chains backwards. Wtf
@@letsgobrandon6281 ensuring good wins over evil today
Funny is it still didn't secure the win and the entire crew was under investigation after the incident, and regardless of the investigation outcome, was no longer allowed to officiate an playoff games... I feel bad for the other refs because it was only the one ref who should be under investigation. It was clear to everyone else on that crew, he did sometime sketchy. I hope they all threw him under the bus
@@BlackBirdAter He'll just have to do better next time. We can't leave the outcomes of important games to chance.
We need more football breakdowns
Old man ref graduated from that school in 1906.
1:19 horse collar tackle btw...that's an automatic first down!
Skinny Santa can't be trusted. This is why Fat Santa is in-charge of Christmas.
This is top notch journalism. I love that you cover stuff like this. And disc golf. And cricket. And major sports lol
The ref waiting and not saying anything was hilarious
That is why there should be reviews or challenges for at least high school playoff football cuz this kind of shit is a absolute disgrace to high school sports and if this effects playoff games or seeding into the playoffs for high school football and it makes refs even more hated for all their inconsistency and controversial call in all the sports
Had something like this happen to our team back in 2007. Our coach called for a spot - the ref looked right at him and respotted the ball a half a yard forward, giving the other team a first down. Luckily, it was just a preseason game and we won anyway. Still made us all madder than hell at the time.
Hey Jomboy, check out where the other post is at after the last first down. The guy on the 22.5 yard line doesn’t even bother holding the post the last play or two so when they stretch the chain he just picks a new spot for the post. Bad ref but the crew holding the sticks created that issue.
They're supposed to have a marker connected to the chains on a 5-yard line that acts as a reference point for measurements and to keep the spot. If they had one down like they should have, then the location of the back post doesn't matter past the initial spotting of that marker on a new series of downs.
If the chains get dropped (I haven't seen the other video you're talking about, but we train people to do that if they feel they are in danger, so it's not necessarily a mistake), then they're reset using that marker. If a measurement starts, the chain is pulled taut with someone holding that marker to act as an anchor, not the back post.
Only time something like that would be an issue is if, for some reason, the chains get dropped and they don't use that marker as a reference for setting them back up, then a first down is called on that improper spot without using a measurement. That didn't happen in this case.
The end of that game was screwed up in many ways. I’ve never seen shit like that before. Lol
@@Falcon4224 So do you think it was cheating or the correct call but just bad optics?? Or what's the verdict?? You seem like one of the only people who actually knows what they're talking about here. And im curious lol
@@triangle1332 Without context, if it was just moving the chains, I could see it being considered an innocent, but very bad looking, attempt at fixing the chains (realistically, someone should have been anchoring at that 5-yard mark to prevent something like that from happening. A full wide view of the entire chains would be helpful to see exactly what was going on).
But changing the spot of the ball? No way in hell there's a reason to do that. It's not the white hat's job to spot the ball, they're not to touch the ball during a measurement. I hesitate to call it "cheating", though I understand why people would call it that. But it's definitely a huge breach in procedure that unfairly impacted the result of the game and gave one team a clear advantage they shouldn't have had.
Hide the midget is such a fun play.
Can we take a second to laugh about how the chains judged a ball on the 11 yard line to be a first down, and then cheating ref restarted play at the 12 yard line?? Insane.
It looked like the 12 yard line at the sideline also. There were two hash marks before the full line (10 yard line).
What a bewildering & shameful display by a ref during a high school football game, whose placement of the ball was far from integrity. I was glad to see Vineland come back and score a touchdown to win the game a second time.
4:35 I hate when my backfield does this because as a linemen I can tell you it’s a lot more than just push them with your hands
no bro you just push, they stand still and you just push, simple man
#1 on eastern is a D bag for sure
Do the NASCAR. GOTTA DO THE NASCAR BREAK DOWN.
God no, we don't need any more people who think smashing a car in the wall is actual racing
@@ItzOver9k Sure it is, and so is getting out of your car and trying to fight the other guy, isn't that right? lol
@@SeraphsWitness That's Hockey, lol
This is sad. Lol
These refs should never be allowed to ref again.
Also a ref. During a measurement, the "anchor point" for the chains is matching one specific link in the chain up with a major yard line, which would have been the 20 in this case (off-screen). Not too weird if it was moving a bit forward and back during the stretching as an off-screen official keeps the link on that line.
The white hat moving the ball though . . . best case scenario, the chains got stretched too far away, he could see it was a first down looking at it straight on, and moved the ball instead of the chains. It may just look bad because the camera is at an off angle. This should be a "never do" though, precisely because it looks suspect even in the best case scenarios. So yeah, still terrible in the best of scenarios.
Also, I'm suspect that the tackle had a missed facemask- grasping any part of the helmet, including the back edge, actually counts as a facemask. Little hard to see because of the camera angle, but its possible this should have all been moot because of a missed penalty.
You can tell by the fact that it's 1st and 10 at the 22 that the first down is at the 12. They absolutely messed up the chains during the measurement