Nooooo, turns out I did in fact bulldoze a metaphorical tree (sort of...a small one). At 1:21:08, I say Elrond could heal Eärien "perhaps with the aid of his Ring of Power". This was a blunder. So long as Sauron possesses the One Ring, the elves aren't able to use their own rings, as all rings are bound to the One. And it's super frustrating that I said this, because in all other cases I've been really careful to state that the elves don't use their rings in the Second Age, and they only ever wear them on chains around their neck, not upon their finger. Also, it's completely unnecessary. There is so much textual evidence in Lord of the Rings that tells us Rivendell is a place of healing and ennoblement, without having to show Elrond's ring being used. Bill the Pony undergoes a fundamental change after spending time in Rivendell, Elrond skill as a healer is demonstrated when he removes the shard of Morgul blade from Frodo's shoulder, and we're even told about a 'cordial of Imladris' known as Miruvor, which renews the vigour and strength of those who drink it. So I will amend my comment and say instead that Elrond could heal Eärien "perhaps with the aid of Miruvor". My bad. However, this shouldn't affect Galadriel's cleansing of Pelargir at 02:24:28, as we know Galadriel doesn't need a Ring of Power to do this. When she cleanses Dol Guldur in the Third Age, she does so after the One Ring has been destroyed, which means her own ring will have lost its power. So the power Galadriel uses to expel the evil from Dol Guldur and Pelargir comes from her, and not her ring.
I knew that was a mistake on your part. But by God, it is so easy to go wrong adapting Tolkien, and so easy to include something which contradicts history, or a rule or a character.
Actually, that the highest being who said that everything goes according to his plan anyway needs to destroy numenor is some shitty inconstant writing by Tolkien... But a fanboy will find everything perfect from him.
If you're interested in my thoughts on the first two episodes, here's a brief summation of my honest opinion. If not...have a lovely day. I feel like this show needs to be viewed through two lenses; it's quality as a Tolkien adaptation, and it's quality as a piece of entertainment in its own right. Before I began watching, I decided to put aside all preconceptions, be as positive as possible, and really genuinely try to enjoy it. But honestly, I thought it was awful. The first scene left such a sour taste in my mouth, and it just kept getting worse from there. As a Tolkien adaptation it's pitiful. 1/10 is a generous score. However as a piece of entertainment in its own right (and I really wasn't expecting this), I found it just as bad. If we remove Tolkien's writings entirely, all that's left is a pathetically one-dimensional, amazingly unintelligent, and thoroughly boring two hours of nothing. I couldn't believe it. By the end of the second episode I couldn't wait for it to be over so I could go to bed. With one or two exceptions, I found the characters astoundingly unlikeable, the plot was unengaging, and I really really didn't care about any of it. That's not to say it was 100% awful from start to finish, there were a few things that weren't awful, but any minor redeeming features were utterly eclipsed by how much I generally did not care. It's sad really. I have no interest whatsoever in watching future episodes. And I know this may sound like a hateful review, but it's not. I'm not hateful, I'm not emotional, I'm not angry. I'm just blown away by how dumb the whole thing was. I genuinely can't fathom how anyone can watch it and consider it Tolkienian. Now, I wouldn't judge anyone else for liking it (to each their own), but to me, it pretty objectively failed to capture Middle-earth; and if we remove all the Middle-earth lore from the picture, and focus solely on the show as a piece of creative entertainment, it still absolutely failed to capture any interest whatsoever. The musical score is beautiful though - I would definitely recommend listening to Bear McGreary's soundtrack if you're into that kind of thing. However, in my opinion, the sad truth is this: our time is too valuable to waste on 2 hours of a profoundly forgettable TV show. But, bravo Bear McGreary. Far too talented for the Rings of Power.
Alas, that's why I said that as a fan of real Star Wars I won't be watching this show. I understand how you're feeling and your videos far outclass everything these companies will ever be able to put forth.
Thanks for your review. You’re one of just a few creators I trusted to be objective on this, and after reading this, I don’t think I’ll be watching it.
As a fellow lore geek, I also found myself cringing through those two hours. It was beautiful and the music was great, but I wouldn't regard this as Tolkienian at all (except by name).
Dipped in for a few minutes to whet my appetite but I'll save this for when I have two hours to LISTEN properly, thank you! (It has been a *long* day...) It's just as well you didn't post your "brief summation of (your) honest opinion" on IMDb as they've deleted every user review with a score of under 6/10. Talk about fragile egos!
I do agree with this, but the red flags as to what we would actually get as a series were always there. The continual media blathering on about how they were making it fit into the woke world we have today with its dogged notions of political correctness to make it suitable for a wider viewing audience. In the Tolkienverse, the only people of colour were from the south or the east, the Easterlings and the Haradrim, they were also on the side on Sauron who is the enemy. In Tolkien's day that would have been acceptable since the notion of racism was pushed under the carpet, especially in Europe and North America. In today's world of political correctness and black lives matter, it's no longer acceptable, not even, apparently, in a work of fiction and fantasy. Hence the appearance of so many black actors made into the beginning of the Hobbits, black elves. There were no black Elves or black Dwarves in Tolkien's work, but to make it acceptable to everyone Amazon have created them. There's nothing wrong with black actors, but it's like the elephant in the room. The makers of this series were too acutely aware of racism. They're not making this series to please Tolkien scholars or even fans like myself of Tolkien's world. We all can see that from those first two episodes. Tolkien scholars were the last people on their minds. They want it to be another Fantasy series like The Princess Bride or Conan the Barbarian, but they want everyone to like it. They don't want someone or a group of people coming back to them telling them they're racist and asking where are the black actors? They believe they are appealing to a wider audience, many of whom have never opened any book in their entire lives, never mind read The Hobbit, Lord of the Rings or, God forbid, the Silmarillion. For that audience they want drama, romance, a bit of the paranormal, not a man's lifetime work creating an entirely new universe and legendarium! They compare it to the only world and universe that they know, which is ours, but Middle Earth is not our earth. Tolkien did base some of it on his own world, but he was also an intensely religious man who wanted to also depict his religion without offending people so he incorporated God (Eru Iluvatar), Archangels (Valar) and Angel's (Maiar) and a heaven (Valinor). He also incorporated a flawed world with dangers uncounted (Middle Earth), two major bad guys (Morgoth and Sauron), and a bunch of innocent folk fighting for their lives (think World Wars 1 and 2). If you can separate his created world from Amazon's vision of his world, you may be able to watch it without wincing, but you have to understand that this depiction is only loosely based on Tolkien's work and the result is exactly why both Tolkien and his son tried so desperately to avoid the work being depicted on the wide screen or television.
I'm a huge fan of your page Rainbow Dave, but after episode 4 of rings of Power. I think it's absolutely phenomenal. I WILL SERVE!!! Sorry I'm utterly onboard with this iteration. It's seriously awesome!! 👏👏👏👏
If Amazon had given us anything even close to this, I would have been a rabid fan of it. That Earien story, while tangential, has so much beauty to it. Building off of that, when Numenor begins to sink Earien -- with that greater understanding and possibly even foresight gained from her travels--could be the one to gather and protect the tree seedlings and tend them in the newly established Gondor. That would be just lovely.
That' s exactly why Amazon didn't hire him. He loves and respects the lore too much. The big corporations want a second trashy GoT to pull in the numbers they don't care about good story, script and acting
Not likely, even 🌈 Dave can't write a good story where 50% of all the screen time is devoted to women. That is why half of the Numenorian Army will be comprised of women. 🙄
@@darkhighwayman1757 Prof Tom Shippey obviously red pilled them over the inaccuracies in the show. When you grow up with a friend in the same profession you respect each others work as Shippey succeeded at Merton Professor of English Language St John's college Oxford and when a greedy corporate and their accompanying shills go out of their to ruin your respect your predecessor and icons work you would take offense and go out of your way to make that clear. Max respect Prof Shippey
Amazon: Do you want to watch 2 hours of "The Rings of Power"? Me: Nah, I don't really feel like it. Rainbow Dave: Do you want to spend three hours listening to my version of the Second Age? Me: I will follow you to the end, to the very fires of Mordor.
Lol no joke it's for real. After the first two episodes, that's literally all I'm gonna do. If people like Dave say meh it's ok, maybe I will watch after I wait and see, but time is money. I don't have all day Amazon, already blew it.
I went and had to watch it, thinking going in with the most pessimistic of mindsets would spare me from desperation….I failed! I am still distilling down my ire into arguments, but this video helped me clense my soul and rekindle that which I hold so dear in this sprawling world….real people‘s stories and understandable character motivations in a timeless struggle against evil. Thank you for giving us solace with these videos, in my case it was solely needed
Actually one of Kings of Numenor prophecied that when the Tree ended,the line of the Kings of Numenor would also end.Which is the same King,Tar-Palantir that tried to stop the rot,but by then it was too firmly set in.
@@GeronimoPlaz i wouldn't agree with "marxist" since the means of production (of that series) are not with "the people" but with, well - the most capitalistic super-mega-corporation one could ever imagine. yes there is woke BS in there but that's just a very failed attempt to conceal the taste of corporate greed with anything remotely characterized as "left". that modern "left" has nothing to do with marxism - quite the contrary - and anything with revenge and narcissism by people who fail in being proud so they exel in being entitled victims. - i agree with the "nightmare clown show" though
@@GeronimoPlazLeftards consider a jar of piss with a crucifix in it "art," as well as a statue of a female law enforcement officer squatting to urinate; lest I forgot, same regarding a functioning toilet labeled, "America". Their scatalogical predilections reveal their juvenile and filthy minds, minds utterly unable to discern objective truth from subjective feelings. Erase the very existence of Amazon's Rings of Power from your mind. It never happened. There is no such thing, same as Disney's Star Wars vomit. Head Canon for the win.
Or failing that, a comic or graphic novel webseries. ANything made by talented and passionate true fans that can be made available to the public to get an adaptation out there that does justice to the world of the Second Age.
@@skylanh4319 yes well .. thats the point. you dont sell it, they cant sue .. its just fan art if you give it away for free .. and yes this would mean no money lol
@@skylanh4319 that's what fanart IS, a creation made out of love for the fandom, not for profit. Fans put countless hours into their creations, big and small, just out of love. An animation or comic made to bring this adaptation to life would be just that, a labor of love.
It may be unintended, and only time will tell how the show turns out, but I think this may turn out to be the greatest critique of the Amazon TV-show. To think that with the same amount of source material the end product could have been this, if only the right person was leading the project. However Amazons show turns out, I think it's safe to say based on the material we've seen so far, it won't be as faithful as this is. I'll even go as far as to say I choose this UA-cam series of an outline of a script over the Rings of Power end product as the preferred adaptation of the Akallabeth. Rainbow Dave is obviously a person who loves the Legendarium and that makes an immense difference. Stay groovy!
Amazon and Hollywood have no intention of telling Tolkien's stories with Tolkien's characters and Tolkien's messages. They hate what Tolkien represents
Tolkien understood what legendary stories are made from and Rainbow Dave understands what drove Tolkien to write LotR and the history of Middle-Earth and all her peoples and love and war. Amazon thought that money can buy all. And so they failed to catch the soul of Tolkien's writing.
Wow... just reading some of the comments & I feel, mine will be in the minority! Nevertheless, I am really enjoying the show on ThePrime. In turn, I also very much enjoyed this video as well! [Although, full discloser, I did listen as a bedtime story, so admittedly I did drift off to sleep while listening... but I have every intention on listening two or three times to get through the content. The analysis & breakdown are very well thought out & presented!] I appreciate @Tolkien Untangled for taking the time to create such an enjoyable vid, & I fully intend on checking out the rest of this series of vids as well!
I really enjoy the fact that your created a FAR better adaptation on your own than a whole team of writers with billions of dollars backing them could over the course of years.
and thats why they didn't want anyone like him. pretty sure amazon employed the "white male" we don't want them nor need them approach while looking for writers willing to defecate on tolkien. now if rainbow dave upped his game and became TransRainbow Daveui, throw in some pronouns like xi/xur that are as problematic in practice as it sounds in a still functioning brain that hasn't been stunted by woke politics, then and only then can a non POC or male participate in official Hollywood wokery. The Oscars even made new rules on how many straight white males need to be NOT hired, you can only have a small portion that falls into that shamed and evil subclass of human. When Meritocracy dies, everything collapses. if we are judged not by our character and actions but by unchosen qualities we were born with, how is that a just and fair society? anyone woke just got triggered. fix equity in your own home before you think you can force your fairytale onto others.
the show jsut makes me think of the phrase 'a camel is a horse designed by committee' and this video is about the ghost of the horse that could have existed!! instead of the camel 😭
You are the brightest star in the sky of Tolkien’s lore and legendarium. I appreciate you, your tenacity, your honesty, your bravery, and your passion. You are one of The Faithful in flesh and blood. Thank you for making these videos.
Loved the (deliberately chosen?) tree analogy contrasting the right and wrong way to pick an adaptive path through Tolkien's writings. Surely, Tolkien's real life love of trees would have heartily approved. Also loved the perspective shift on the opening scene of season 1 to tell the story of Numenor in season 3. Somebody give this man a $billion!
@@dominic150 and thats why they didn't want anyone like him. pretty sure amazon employed the "white male" we don't want them nor need them approach while looking for writers willing to defecate on tolkien. now if rainbow dave upped his game and became TransRainbow Daveui, throw in some pronouns like xi/xur that are as problematic in practice as it sounds in a still functioning brain that hasn't been stunted by woke politics, then and only then can a non POC or male participate in official Hollywood wokery. The Oscars even made new rules limiting how many of those evil white males you can hire, loop hole is they can just share their private sex life and become a privileged class and they still probably be more honest that most liberal progressives SJW's. When Meritocracy dies, everything collapses. why work and pay taxes so the greediest and most self serving democrats don[t have to work and just get gov't money and handouts that cause massive inflation. when we are judged not by our character and actions but by unchosen qualities we were born with, how is that a just and fair society? anyone woke just got triggered. fix equity in your own home before you think you can force your fairytale onto others.
I think that's the exact problem with ROP. They gave a billion dollars to basically unproven individuals to work on one of the most beloved fictional universe's of all time. If this man had such a budget to work with I think we would have gotten a real masterpiece
@@michelecastellotti9172 I bet a good work can be done by just let's say 1 million. Or even less. All he needs is people who draw comics and voice actors. And a cool graphic novel/cartoon can be done quite well. And I think a lot of people would be ready to do it out of passion and for free.
@@boycottamazonlotr7023 i dunno man, for free just out of passion sound like the bullshit that certain game companies say about their overworked developers (looking at you game freak)
So essentially, Earien survives by Ulmo taking interest in Tuor´s line - again. I like it. Shows that THIS Valar is actually supportive of what is going on in middle-earth
Yes. Eärien could be a very very distant cousin of Isildur’s, many generations removed (like Aragorn and Arwen). This is possible because Elros canonically had four different children. Or even if she’s not biologically related to Tuor, she is destined to keep his line alive by being the mother of Isildur’s sons. So that’s likely enough to prompt Ulmo to help her.
Man, I've been thinking and thinking about the idea of Isildur being so pure like Faramir, but then being the first man who is corrupted by the one ring. It would be the irrefutable evidence that no man can resist the ring. And it would have to be shown as equal to the most tragic death of a hero. With the potential to show him struggling under the surface until the ring kills him. Thank you so much for bringing all the lore together. SOOO GOOOD.
@@samwisegamgee8318but he did refuse to destroy it. And in all honesty, since anyone will inevitably resist destroying the Ring in the end, I don’t think “corruption” is the correct word for what happens to Isildur and, eventually, Frodo. Neither of them ever have evil intentions with the keeping of the Ring, and in different ways, both are saved before the Ring can cause true harm to their morality. “Corruption” is a much more fitting word for what happens to Gollum, because his constant exposure to the Ring is mixed with his own internal, inherent flaws; his instant willingness to commit murder to gain the Ring shows us his true character. He always had a speck of easily-exploitable greed inside him, that neither Isildur nor Frodo ever had. The internal character of a Ring-bearer is essential to the timeline of the Ring’s affect on them. Isildur and Frodo never plotted to commit evil with the Ring even after claiming it, and only much longer exposure to the Ring - like Gollum’s length of exposure - would have warped them into committing evil. Whereas Gollum immediately committed acts of evil after claiming it.
39:45 I love that you stress Isildur's character as intended by Tolkien: that he was a hero. How he saved the fruit if the White Tree in Armenelos speaks of such a humble and brave soul. And, as you've pointed out - that makes his slight corruption by the ring even more heartbreaking. That even he wasn't immune to its influence. That being said, when he died he was actually on the way to Imladris, possibly to ask Elrond for advice as to what to do with the ring. He didn't really intend to keep it
I uploaded your seasons as audio in my library, and stampled them with an edited cover of "Rings of Power OST" displaying : The Faithfull Version, so i can listen back to them while driving and otherwise. Great job!
The brilliant point you’re making is that it is 100% possible to stick with the lore and Tolkiens themes while still being entertaining. This is what I’ve been arguing! There is nothing wrong with original storylines I don’t think any of us have a problem with it as long as they respect what IS there! I have been sending people to this channel hardcore for the past few weeks! Keep it up Rainbow Dave you are a treasure!
It is not a brilliant point but rather the right point! All we Tolkien fans want the films to follow Tolkien's writings as closely as possible, at least in themes and characters.
You do not get it... Look at the other desecrated franchises. The main reason is the ruination of these myth's. The actual agenda is not the inserted politics. The inserted politics is the poison achieving of the main goal: the complete destruction of western culture and western values and moral.
Your interpretation, passion and love for the work of master Tolkien literally brought tears into my eyes. This video (and your previous one) filled my hearth joy and gave me the experience I expected (and didn’t have at all) from the Amazon’s show. Please continue delivering such an epic work. Thank you so so much, Dave.
From the reviews I've seen of Amazon's adaptating all I get is "that's not how it is", but thanks to Rainbow Dave I can remember it all again as I've read it myself many years ago. I'm not the biggest Tolien fan and I won't be able to point to all the mistakes made by Amazon. Rainbow Dave is driven by the passion for the works of Tolkien, and that shows here in this beautiful narrative of how a show of the Second Age could be made.
I love the idea of Earwen waking up with an Elf attending to her, them having a conversation in (slightly halting on her part) Sindarin, and when he tells her his name is Elrond, she says "You have the same name as one of the sons of that Earendil guy in the legends?" to which he responds "I think of him as 'father' rather than 'that guy in the legends' but ... yes."
I don't know if this would work, but when you mentioned Isildur and Anarion meeting the local men, I had an idea of perhaps a tribe of Haradrim who fled far North from their abhorrent mistreatment at the hands of the King's Men in Harad. In connection with that storyline. When Isildur and Anarion first come across these men, they are captured due to the hatred they have for Numenoreans, but a bit later, the tribe comes under attack from some source like an Orcish Raid or The Vilest of King's Men who are wrathful towards them. Isildur and Anarion manage to free themselves in the chaos, but instead of fleeing, they stay to help the tribesmen fight off the attackers. The leader of the tribe witnesses Isildur or Anarion saving his young son, and comes to understand them as not his enemy. He then swears to aid them and goes with them for a time on their journey. I don't know if that would work, but I think it's certainly indicative of the type of good Haradrim that Tolkien spoke of in some of his writings (Nature of Middle Earth), and fits with his themes. In addition, if Amazon is so dedicated to having an ethnically diverse cast, I think that would be a much better way to do so.
It could be simpler than that. Amerindian Tribes would capture children and not having a complex society to imprison or guard them, would adopt them and raise them as children of the tribe. Another way to get involved in a foreign tribe would be to be placed there as hostages in some diplomatic move.
I just found out that Hollywood produced a movie "based" of the Dahomey Amazons called "the Woman King" And is already firing all guns of wokeness on the people who critise the obvious false narative of the part of African history. Maybe Black Panther was the only product where wokeness was used in an acceptable way and probably the lost. the trend today is forcefeeding the audience with wokeness and getting angry when the audience chokes.
@@kamion53 I do dearly hope that in time, as Africa becomes more and more advanced, and the literacy rate increases, that we get stories and media from people there who love the myths and culture of the continent as Tolkien did with his own lands, as opposed to underwhelming corporate pandering.
@@CoolKidMethew Problem is that what of the rich African culture reaches the West seems to be filtered through either the lense of Afrocentrism ( as reaction on Eurocentrism) or the lense of wokeness. Maybe it's time Africa creates it's own Bollywood like India did. Not that are not made movies now, but it should be at the scale of Hollywood and Bollywood, lets call it Beniwood. And when there is already a Beniwood, it does not get the attention as Bollywood gets in the European cinema's. Mainstream cinema's have their part of Bollywood movies, where an African movie is still an art-home affair.
Dave you knew things were going a certain way when news of the scholar was let go/fired.. What I value is integrity. That's why I listen even though in some instances I may not agree. You are one of the best Mellon. Imo it felt like giant expensive fan fiction. At best 5/10. It looks great but there's not heart Dave. Id rather re-watch the original trilogy, hunt for gollum or even born of hope 👍
I agree with this completely. Integrity is so rare these days when these studios adapt beloved properties. Integrity is the very reason I listen and re-listen to this channel. He can do a “what if?” episode and stay faithful to the source so that it still resembles and even fits into the legendarium. That takes talent. This channel is miles above the rest.
Wow! This is amazing, I can’t wait for Part 3 on Season 4. But take as long as you need to do it PROPERLY, and do not be concerned about the time it takes. I’m very willing to wait for quality content, especially if it’s free.
I am one who has long felt that Numenor’s downfall would be very nearly unadaptable. That being said- what a great idea Rainbow Dave, i came around to it!
May I say, to counteract those other commenters you mentioned, I am very glad you made this before seeing TROP. It prevents your ideas from being influenced by theirs. Also...I watched a 3-hour Shad-rant on Knight's Watch last night in reaction to the first episode. Just the first one. He and Nathan spent so much time pausing it to take notes that they had no time for the second episode. Between their critiques (which were *only* focused on the writing; they barely even touched on the changes made) and my own impressions, (that they are trying to squeeze Galadriel's growth throughout the First Age into the first few months of the last decade of the Second Age...while turning everyone around her into passive idiots to prevent the appearance that she would need to learn anything at all...and also completely mistaking the Elvish relationship with death) I suspect it is actually easier to start this from scratch than to try "fixing" what Amazon made. Edit: I love, love, LOVE your idea about Earien in Imladris! Also, Elrond would probably be just as legendary as Earendil to her, so meeting him in person would probably be a bit overwhelming for her at first. Would she have met elves on her journey up the river? Because if not, Imladris would also be the first Elves she ever meets in her life, despite knowing of them in theory through history and the political divide in Numenor. I also like the tongue-in-cheek cheek parallel of Elrond protecting the future wife of the future king of Gondor and Arnor at Imladris. Even if she isn't strictly a relative. And it could offer, not only character, but also interesting relationship development. How does Isildur react to her change over her time with the Elves, even as it stirs up hard feelings with the King's Men?
The Eärien and Elrond storyline actually adds a lot of weight to the canon - because Tolkien actually wrote that Elrond took in Isildur’s wife and newborn youngest son Valandil at Rivendell during the War of the Last Alliance. It is because of Elrond’s care that Valandil and his mother became the last survivors of the House of Isildur after Isildur and his three older sons were slain. Valandil was then raised in Rivendell before claiming the crown of Arnor. So this would make even more sense if Isildur’s wife already had good history with Elrond and knew him as a trusted friend.
The "Rings of Power" is simply SAURON writing about Arda. Nothing less. To watch this program is to support MELKOR. Not hyperbole. You have a choice. Do not support evil.
I'm half way into this video and... WHY ARE YOU NOT THE WRITER OF THE AMAZON SERIES???? This is so fun and interesting and it feels like Tolkiens world! None of these feelings i get from the amazon series. Ughhhh
Your erudite knowledge of JRRT's intricate legendarium, and skillful "dot-connecting" of the first age with the second was all my imagination needed to project your thoughtful, logical version on the screen of my brain theatre. If it's true that each of five scheduled seasons will consist of eight one-hour episodes, your last two videos have already saved me the hours in an entire day. Outstanding. Thank you for sharing the enthusiasm and insights you've found in Tolkien's body of work. Your generosity will certainly be returned to you a hundredfold.
I think that Earien's story is truly fascinating. The seastorm of human history and the mild river of the elvish one is so wonderful to see and feel from her perspective. Through that journey she might become a very interesting female character, who can achieve strength and wisdom not by fighting (which is so fashionable for "strong female characters" nowadays), but by being kind and learning from the world around her.
This would be pretty epic to see on screen. As well as the first 2 seasons video you did, and also I am sure the videos on seasons 4 and 5, I can already see it playing out. No doubt a show like this could spawn ideas for other adaptations of certain stories. I dont think you can go wrong if you follow what Tolkien wrote, business and story wise, but oh well. Cheers for putting out there that there is a way to approach second age source material with good faith, and still get something that works on screen. And honestly, i think it would work big time. Especially with this sort of unorthodox and non-cliche approach, very fitting for source material in my opinion.
So much love and respect for Tolkien… such a long video to indulge in! What a pleasure, what a wonderful journey! Thanks for taking us on this journey!
There's a really fascinating subversion of the dichotomy of "death" and "the desire for deathlessness". If you gave people the choice between two parties, one representing an acceptance of death, and the other a striving against it, you'd expect people to assume the second one was the "good guys", rather than how they turn out in Númenor.
And Elrond making a different choice is ultimately what divides him from the sins of Númenor. Elrond’s rejection of mortal death is his inherent right. He has the blood of not only Elves, but a Maia. By birthright, he is entitled to immortality via Nimloth, Idril, and both of his parents, and embraces it as a part of his roots. Whereas the Númenóreans are far more removed from those roots; their most recent ancestors are mortal, and their forefather rejected his kinship with the immortal folk. So they have no right to reject mortality. But Elrond does.
Well, actually, I'm kind of advocating for not changing anything. Imo a perfect adaptation would be an animated audio book 🤣 But I'm aware of how unrealistic that is, so I'm willing to settle on not contradicting anything directly.
"I'm acutely aware that taking someone else's body of work and "fixing" or "improving" it is infinitely easier than taking a blank page and turning that into a body of work". Hear, hear.
A very astute description of sitting in front of a white page not knowing how and where to start from….I was always fascinated with people that excell at storytelling…holding all of this in your mind and making it coherent is completely beyond me…I build and heal, each of us must work with the gifts they received
👏👏👏👏👏 I so so soooo wish you were the head writer of the show. But I’m grateful that we selfishly get to keep you for ourselves- your videos are my only way of coping with Amazon’s utter destruction of the most magnificent stories and characters. Sending all the good things, vibes, love, hope, any and all of it your way ❤
The fact you place such importance on linguistic world-building is absolutely beautiful. Honestly, THIS should have been Rings of Power, no doubt about it!
I never really expected a modern day, multi billion dollar company to capture the heart, soul, and ethos of one man's genius from nearly 100 years ago. The show could be both good and faithful, but I doubt they really want it to be.
They didn't even try and it shows, they tried the exact opposite with full intent and malice. That's why they deserve to fail hard and are worthy of all our contempt.
My god, this show is so good!! I really hope you keep this series going all the way to season 5. I can honestly tell you that I will be listening to this multiple times. Cannot say the same for(at least) season one of RoP.
13:20 That is correct, IMO. The essential thread of Tolkien's story about Numenor, and men in general. Tolkien expounded that the human fear of death was created, or at least magnified by, Morgoth and later, Sauron. As part of the saddest of Tolkien's tales, in the Silmarillion Morgoth chains his captive, Hurin, to the exterior of Thangorodrim. There to witness until eternity (with Morgoth's vision) everything bad happening in Middle Earth, especially to his family. Yet Hurin refuses to be intimidated, even by death. He mocks Morgoth, knowing that death will release him. When Morgoth says that death is emptiness, he mocks him still, accurately saying that Morgoth is utterly ignorant of what death brings to men and what The One intends for the souls of men after death. Probably drawn from Tolkien's religious beliefs, it could have been an underlying theme in the series. But that would require writers/actors with understanding of, and respect for, Tolkien's works and little bit less self-respect.
This is genuinely brilliant. If the folks at Amazon had any sense they should just hire you and put you in charge of the writing team and just reboot the entire thing and start again from scratch using your outline.
I am clearly living your adaptation within my imagination. I got shivers from the prologue, and I could definitely listen to you detailing every episode of your work. Maybe like a radio-novel with voice actors? Anyway, yours is the story every lover of Tolkien and his works deserve. Thanks for sharing
You have kindled my passion of studying Tolkien once again. Thank you. One thing for sure, based on the two episodes of RoP, there is no way anyone at Amazon capable of executing Tolkien's stories to the level of your storytelling. They neither have the love nor the talent to make it happen.
Ar-Pharazon seems to be modeled after Pompey, by Tolkien. He's charismatic, a good general, smart, and even a little wise (in a villainous way). Pompey also wanted to be king of the world, and made a pretty good start on it. So yeah, my general idea is that Miriel can't decide what side she's on, and she also can't decide if she's been romanced, seduced, or even usurped and raped. She's a bundle of indecision, and she has no clear goals or plans. The opposite of a strong king or queen. Part of her seems sensible and kind, but the rest of her wants somebody to tell her what to do. And when a rich, foolish, beautiful young woman wants that, lots of people will volunteer to push her around. Your version -- that Miriel partially consents, because she is scrambling to get some kind of power back, over her country for its good, and over Ar-Pharazon to keep him from doing worse - gives Miriel a bit more dignity. But of course it also makes Miriel's position with the Faithful a bit more iffy. As time goes on, one might show her starting to get a backbone and helping the Faithful in small ways, even though she is still afraid to make any big moves or decisions. That way, people can feel sad for her when she makes for the Meneltarma too late.
I agree. Also I think it’s likely that Elendil or one of his Faithful offered Míriel a spot on their ships when they were evacuating Númenor, but Míriel refused out of guilt for having failed her people and not done more to stop Pharazôn.
What material does Amazon have the rights to for The Rings of Power show? Well we know have an answer courtesy of the showrunners J.D. Payne and Patrick McKay in an interview with Vanity Fair. The trade was asking questions fans wanted to know the answers to and this was definitely one of the questions that was endlessly debating among the Tolkien fan base. So what did Amazon buy? “We have the rights solely to The Fellowship of the Ring, The Two Towers, The Return of the King, the appendices, and The Hobbit,” Payne says. “And that is it. We do not have the rights to The Silmarillion, Unfinished Tales, The History of Middle-earth, or any of those other books.” That takes a huge chunk of lore off the table and has left Tolkien fans wondering how this duo plans to tell a Second Age story without access to those materials. “There’s a version of everything we need for the Second Age in the books we have the rights to,” McKay says. “As long as we’re painting within those lines and not egregiously contradicting something we don’t have the rights to, there’s a lot of leeway and room to dramatize and tell some of the best stories that [Tolkien] ever came up with.” Tolkien simply never got round to finishing all his stories in his lifetime. The works from The Silmarillion, which are the most complete form of the First and Second Ages themselves, are still incomplete. Christopher Tolkien tried to find the most complete versions for the book. However there were details Tolkien worked on and hadn’t finalized by the time of his death. This means the series will be based on The Appendices at the end of The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King. Which, admittedly, does overlap in stories between the two books, but if it is mentioned in The Silmarillion and not in the Appendices, it is off-limits. And this has to do with the rights from the Tolkien Estate and from J.R.R. Tolkien himself. Tolkien had never wanted to sell the rights to his books to the movie companies, but he was forced to eventually for the money in the 1970s to Saul Zaentz, and the animated Rankin and Bass productions of The Hobbit and Ralph Bakshi’s The Lord of the Rings (among a few other small budget films) were made. But those were the only rights that were sold. Even for Peter Jackson, he only had the rights to The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings. So, for example, when Radagast the Brown was introduced in Jackson’s Hobbit movies, he had to be very careful with not saying that Tolkien had mentioned there were other wizards in Middle Earth (there are, in fact, a few more mentioned in other works) because he didn’t have the rights to it.
I love your approach in fleshing out a story. I love the theme of death and immortality. And you are not breaking the lore with the new characters. You just add to it in a non destructive way. So no big changes.
You also have to say Miriel was the first human to order an armor shirt off of Amazon. She saved tons on shipping by being a prime member. Her use of Amazon for getting armor and props knockoffs is famous among the Numenor and even the elves.
Don’t knock it. Amazon has millions of Chinese child laborers lined up making those exact mail shirts to sell to the ‘fans’. We’ll probably able to buy a full on onesy by the time it’s all said and done.
Bored of the Rings feels more like Tolkien than Amazon's tripe. So, when are you starting your crowd-funder to make this? After the backlash that hit RoP, there's probably a few of the fellowship that'd put their hands in their pockets. Maybe a few million of us.
Yay for subtitles! If a prospective audience-member is disinclined to read subtitles for Quenya or Sindarin then they shouldn't be watching a show based on Tolkien's works.
You inspired me to draw architecture for Numenor. Before the seafaring conquest age of the Numenoreans, everyone has front yards and most people live in single story stone/post&lintel buildings. The kings live in extravagant circular houses of state. Then the buildings proceed upward until there are many towers throughout the cities. Courtyards are acquired as a design from their conquered people. Wide roads for their horses to tramp. Large windows because no one would attack. The kings’ residences become more perfectly square/rectangular to show how great they are, and how much more efficiently they create more room to display their mostly ill begotten wealth and treasures. The decor changes from flowers, plants and animals to symbols of conquerors (sickle/sword/net) to abstract symbols of life and death. …Now I just have to get on to Gondorian and Arnorian architecture… With the architectural changes, one could pan in and out of scenes throughout Numenor’s history. No narrator or time stamp required.
If you could finish out the remainder of the series then that would be awesome. Then I can recommend this to people when I want to show them what a good Tolkien adaptation would look like. A shame you didn’t get $1 billion to make this series. Cheers.
They COULD have easily stuck to the lore. But they never had any intention of doing so. That's why they got rid of the one genuine Tolkien scholar working with them, Tom Shippey, as soon as they could. And immediately swapped him out for an identity rights activist.
These series of videos should have been mandatory viewing for all of the show runners and script writers of the show before the project ever started. Instead they chose to go a completely different route....sad knowing what could've been in comparison to what they delivered.
you are a true J.R.R. Tolkien fan my friend i can FEEL the PASSION and LOVE that you have for this world like many of us, i wish us fans were making the story
Thank you sir, THANK YOU for this version, it is a treasure. It could be cool to realize that like in a comic book/graphic novel style, and put it on video - like drawings with voiceovers and music. (Or maybe even to hire a professional animator). I think a lot of people would be willing to do that, because of their love for Tolkien alone, but if we would be able to collect funds for this project it would be even better. If you, in a future, would be able to realize that project, I would put all my time and effort to support it, promote it, and, since I'm a composer, write some soundtrack for it. A Tolkien story realized by tolkien fans.
Difference between Tolkien untangled and the broken sword? Amazon did not pay Tolkien untangled to fly out to watch the premier 2 episodes and bribe him to give false positive reviews.
Numenoreans declaring war against the Valar and sailing towards the Undying Lands has the same vibe as Roman Emperor Caligula declaring war against Poseidon and ordering his soldiers to stab the ocean with their spears. Both are incredibly dumb ideas. The former just led to Numenor being swallowed by a massive tidal wave.
One thing I'm not certain about is Galadriel using her elven ring, I thought in the second half of the 2nd Age that Cirdan, Elrond and Galadriel could not use their rings without being controlled by Sauron. It was only after Sauron's defeat that the elven rings could be safely used.
Yes, but as pointed out in the pinned comment, Galadriel didn’t necessarily need the Ring to do this. She throws down Dol Guldur by herself after the One Ring’s destruction, and thus the loss of her ring’s power. So she’s able to do stuff like this with her own magic, beyond the ring.
The Numenoreans did not piss off Eru. Eru is beyond being pissed off because everything is ny his will. When the Numenoreans assaulted Aman, the Valar were faced with a choice: interfere with Men and their destiny against their promise, or allow themselves to be overrun in the undying lands. And, so, Manwe cried out to his father, Illuvatar for his aid. At the request of the Powers of the West, Eru broke the world and bent the seas, removed the undying lands to somewhere that men could not reach and drowned the idyllic Island of Numenore forcing men to keep to Middle Earth. Simple stuff for one such as he. Not pissed, just doing the kids a solid.
You have to make your videos less interesting. I have chores to do.. I'll listen to 15 minutes turned into a half hour turned into 40 minutes... I'm not getting my chores done, Sir! I'm a Gnostic Christian and I call God the ONE (who is all) very close the all father. Another name implies 'The source of all being'
I don't really know why I don't have Patreon yet. I will set up an account, but I want to make a video introducing it, and I just haven't had time to do that yet. Thanks though. I'm sure I'll set one up soon.
The Rings of Power is a mess of a show, the writers are 3rd rate hacks. Nothing makes sense. The dialogue is embarrassing to listen to, the hero is an egomaniac, the travel speeds, the dumb premises, the idiotic plot holes. Even if this wasnt based on Tolkien's work it would still suck.
I think this format was a creative solution to talk about this show. The theme for this show certainly will be about wasted opportunity for us, and these videos are about what could've and should've been. We saw it long ago. The only question was whether we could lower our unrealistic expectations enough and objectively call it a good show. If it had workable Tolkien themes, then hey that's a pretty nice deal for all these seasons, where they also could work on improvement. I guess that improvement COULD still happen, in this season and beyond, yet based upon what I saw in the first 2 episodes....ouch. I haven't been about all the drama surrounding this show, but honestly it does make me mad about the wasted opportunity.
"... courtesy to the showrunners ..." HAHAHAHAHA. They are due not a scrap of courtesy after the offensive desecration they delivered to us. They instead deserve our scorn and our mockery. I respect the sentiment however given when you wrote it.
A little episode in Pellargir: A sympathetic numenorian character who complains of having a love and wanting to do the honorable thing and marry her (even if I don't have to becasue I am a Numenorian), but if I do, she cannot give me hiers. Our children may die of old age in less than a century, while I am still in my prime!
oh I would LOVE to animate this. I'm no good at scriptwriting, but if I find a suitable piece of music I might do a scene or two without dialogue. your description of the final scene in particular gave me some really good ideas!
You could have Eärien in your three characters be a little younger, and a history/mythology buff and a bit of a pain that way before the trip so Isildur thinks of her as a bit of an annoyance before she is swept away. She would then know the history of these ruins she passes as she goes upstream and be interested in Elrond's tales of the ultimate ancestor. And she could reattach Elrond to his family of Numenorians and provide a reason for him to find the men and return her to them. And she will have grown up in the process enough to change how Isildur sees her when they meet again.
Nooooo, turns out I did in fact bulldoze a metaphorical tree (sort of...a small one).
At 1:21:08, I say Elrond could heal Eärien "perhaps with the aid of his Ring of Power". This was a blunder. So long as Sauron possesses the One Ring, the elves aren't able to use their own rings, as all rings are bound to the One. And it's super frustrating that I said this, because in all other cases I've been really careful to state that the elves don't use their rings in the Second Age, and they only ever wear them on chains around their neck, not upon their finger.
Also, it's completely unnecessary. There is so much textual evidence in Lord of the Rings that tells us Rivendell is a place of healing and ennoblement, without having to show Elrond's ring being used. Bill the Pony undergoes a fundamental change after spending time in Rivendell, Elrond skill as a healer is demonstrated when he removes the shard of Morgul blade from Frodo's shoulder, and we're even told about a 'cordial of Imladris' known as Miruvor, which renews the vigour and strength of those who drink it. So I will amend my comment and say instead that Elrond could heal Eärien "perhaps with the aid of Miruvor".
My bad.
However, this shouldn't affect Galadriel's cleansing of Pelargir at 02:24:28, as we know Galadriel doesn't need a Ring of Power to do this. When she cleanses Dol Guldur in the Third Age, she does so after the One Ring has been destroyed, which means her own ring will have lost its power. So the power Galadriel uses to expel the evil from Dol Guldur and Pelargir comes from her, and not her ring.
I knew that was a mistake on your part. But by God, it is so easy to go wrong adapting Tolkien, and so easy to include something which contradicts history, or a rule or a character.
Actually, that the highest being who said that everything goes according to his plan anyway needs to destroy numenor is some shitty inconstant writing by Tolkien... But a fanboy will find everything perfect from him.
Also, i think Elrond didn't have the ring at the time. Gil-Galad gave his ring to Elrond before the battle of the Last Alliance, wasn't he?
We need a video about Bill the Pony, please. 😊
Also, don't worry about screw-ups, I make them all the time.
@@katydidd6321 thanks! Fun fact, I already have a video about Bill the Pony 🙂 ua-cam.com/video/8wS8dZegORs/v-deo.html
You're an absolute treasure to the community, Sir. ✌️
Best Tolkien UA-camr by miles!
Thanks!
Facts!
If you're interested in my thoughts on the first two episodes, here's a brief summation of my honest opinion. If not...have a lovely day.
I feel like this show needs to be viewed through two lenses; it's quality as a Tolkien adaptation, and it's quality as a piece of entertainment in its own right. Before I began watching, I decided to put aside all preconceptions, be as positive as possible, and really genuinely try to enjoy it.
But honestly, I thought it was awful. The first scene left such a sour taste in my mouth, and it just kept getting worse from there. As a Tolkien adaptation it's pitiful. 1/10 is a generous score.
However as a piece of entertainment in its own right (and I really wasn't expecting this), I found it just as bad. If we remove Tolkien's writings entirely, all that's left is a pathetically one-dimensional, amazingly unintelligent, and thoroughly boring two hours of nothing. I couldn't believe it. By the end of the second episode I couldn't wait for it to be over so I could go to bed. With one or two exceptions, I found the characters astoundingly unlikeable, the plot was unengaging, and I really really didn't care about any of it.
That's not to say it was 100% awful from start to finish, there were a few things that weren't awful, but any minor redeeming features were utterly eclipsed by how much I generally did not care. It's sad really. I have no interest whatsoever in watching future episodes.
And I know this may sound like a hateful review, but it's not. I'm not hateful, I'm not emotional, I'm not angry. I'm just blown away by how dumb the whole thing was. I genuinely can't fathom how anyone can watch it and consider it Tolkienian. Now, I wouldn't judge anyone else for liking it (to each their own), but to me, it pretty objectively failed to capture Middle-earth; and if we remove all the Middle-earth lore from the picture, and focus solely on the show as a piece of creative entertainment, it still absolutely failed to capture any interest whatsoever.
The musical score is beautiful though - I would definitely recommend listening to Bear McGreary's soundtrack if you're into that kind of thing. However, in my opinion, the sad truth is this: our time is too valuable to waste on 2 hours of a profoundly forgettable TV show.
But, bravo Bear McGreary. Far too talented for the Rings of Power.
Alas, that's why I said that as a fan of real Star Wars I won't be watching this show. I understand how you're feeling and your videos far outclass everything these companies will ever be able to put forth.
Thanks for your review. You’re one of just a few creators I trusted to be objective on this, and after reading this, I don’t think I’ll be watching it.
As a fellow lore geek, I also found myself cringing through those two hours. It was beautiful and the music was great, but I wouldn't regard this as Tolkienian at all (except by name).
Dipped in for a few minutes to whet my appetite but I'll save this for when I have two hours to LISTEN properly, thank you! (It has been a *long* day...)
It's just as well you didn't post your "brief summation of (your) honest opinion" on IMDb as they've deleted every user review with a score of under 6/10. Talk about fragile egos!
I do agree with this, but the red flags as to what we would actually get as a series were always there. The continual media blathering on about how they were making it fit into the woke world we have today with its dogged notions of political correctness to make it suitable for a wider viewing audience.
In the Tolkienverse, the only people of colour were from the south or the east, the Easterlings and the Haradrim, they were also on the side on Sauron who is the enemy. In Tolkien's day that would have been acceptable since the notion of racism was pushed under the carpet, especially in Europe and North America. In today's world of political correctness and black lives matter, it's no longer acceptable, not even, apparently, in a work of fiction and fantasy. Hence the appearance of so many black actors made into the beginning of the Hobbits, black elves. There were no black Elves or black Dwarves in Tolkien's work, but to make it acceptable to everyone Amazon have created them.
There's nothing wrong with black actors, but it's like the elephant in the room. The makers of this series were too acutely aware of racism. They're not making this series to please Tolkien scholars or even fans like myself of Tolkien's world. We all can see that from those first two episodes. Tolkien scholars were the last people on their minds. They want it to be another Fantasy series like The Princess Bride or Conan the Barbarian, but they want everyone to like it. They don't want someone or a group of people coming back to them telling them they're racist and asking where are the black actors? They believe they are appealing to a wider audience, many of whom have never opened any book in their entire lives, never mind read The Hobbit, Lord of the Rings or, God forbid, the Silmarillion. For that audience they want drama, romance, a bit of the paranormal, not a man's lifetime work creating an entirely new universe and legendarium! They compare it to the only world and universe that they know, which is ours, but Middle Earth is not our earth. Tolkien did base some of it on his own world, but he was also an intensely religious man who wanted to also depict his religion without offending people so he incorporated God (Eru Iluvatar), Archangels (Valar) and Angel's (Maiar) and a heaven (Valinor).
He also incorporated a flawed world with dangers uncounted (Middle Earth), two major bad guys (Morgoth and Sauron), and a bunch of innocent folk fighting for their lives (think World Wars 1 and 2).
If you can separate his created world from Amazon's vision of his world, you may be able to watch it without wincing, but you have to understand that this depiction is only loosely based on Tolkien's work and the result is exactly why both Tolkien and his son tried so desperately to avoid the work being depicted on the wide screen or television.
The fall of Nùmenor is an excellent example of the adage, "Play stupid games, win stupid prizes". Cuz HOOO BOY is that EXACTLY what Ar-Phârazon does!
Your voice is so soothing; it sounds like you're smiling almost the entire time.
Love all of your videos.
We are so lucky to have you, you always approach this very loved world with such respect and knowledge
I'm a huge fan of your page Rainbow Dave, but after episode 4 of rings of Power. I think it's absolutely phenomenal. I WILL SERVE!!! Sorry I'm utterly onboard with this iteration. It's seriously awesome!! 👏👏👏👏
If Amazon had given us anything even close to this, I would have been a rabid fan of it. That Earien story, while tangential, has so much beauty to it. Building off of that, when Numenor begins to sink Earien -- with that greater understanding and possibly even foresight gained from her travels--could be the one to gather and protect the tree seedlings and tend them in the newly established Gondor. That would be just lovely.
Season 3 of this would become a Game of Thrones !!
This is awesome.
Imagine if Amazon actually hired this man to lead the writing team, we could have gotten what could potentially be the most epic Tolkien show yet 😭😭😭
That' s exactly why Amazon didn't hire him. He loves and respects the lore too much. The big corporations want a second trashy GoT to pull in the numbers they don't care about good story, script and acting
Not likely, even 🌈 Dave can't write a good story where 50% of all the screen time is devoted to women. That is why half of the Numenorian Army will be comprised of women. 🙄
They had Shippey to keep them grounded but they wouldn't listen
@@darkhighwayman1757 Prof Tom Shippey obviously red pilled them over the inaccuracies in the show. When you grow up with a friend in the same profession you respect each others work as Shippey succeeded at Merton Professor of English Language St John's college Oxford and when a greedy corporate and their accompanying shills go out of their to ruin your respect your predecessor and icons work you would take offense and go out of your way to make that clear.
Max respect Prof Shippey
@@darkhighwayman1757
Christopher died and two months later Shippey is canned. Any chance of a lore-accurate series died with Christopher.😞
Amazon: Do you want to watch 2 hours of "The Rings of Power"?
Me: Nah, I don't really feel like it.
Rainbow Dave: Do you want to spend three hours listening to my version of the Second Age?
Me: I will follow you to the end, to the very fires of Mordor.
Lol no joke it's for real. After the first two episodes, that's literally all I'm gonna do. If people like Dave say meh it's ok, maybe I will watch after I wait and see, but time is money. I don't have all day Amazon, already blew it.
I went and had to watch it, thinking going in with the most pessimistic of mindsets would spare me from desperation….I failed!
I am still distilling down my ire into arguments, but this video helped me clense my soul and rekindle that which I hold so dear in this sprawling world….real people‘s stories and understandable character motivations in a timeless struggle against evil. Thank you for giving us solace with these videos, in my case it was solely needed
So true)
Amazon are deleting reviews like crazy on Rotten tomatoes. It seems only youtube comments section is the only bastion of truth
Actually one of Kings of Numenor prophecied that when the Tree ended,the line of the Kings of Numenor would also end.Which is the same King,Tar-Palantir that tried to stop the rot,but by then it was too firmly set in.
You haven't lost the ability to make short videos, you have mastered the ability to narrate full and rich stories
Thanks!
I'm going to pretend this is the real Rings of Power series that was promised :D
That's exactly what I'm doing too!
Me too 😂
Not the Marxist nightmare clown show we got lol
@@GeronimoPlaz i wouldn't agree with "marxist" since the means of production (of that series) are not with "the people" but with, well - the most capitalistic super-mega-corporation one could ever imagine. yes there is woke BS in there but that's just a very failed attempt to conceal the taste of corporate greed with anything remotely characterized as "left". that modern "left" has nothing to do with marxism - quite the contrary - and anything with revenge and narcissism by people who fail in being proud so they exel in being entitled victims. - i agree with the "nightmare clown show" though
@@GeronimoPlazLeftards consider a jar of piss with a crucifix in it "art," as well as a statue of a female law enforcement officer squatting to urinate; lest I forgot, same regarding a functioning toilet labeled, "America". Their scatalogical predilections reveal their juvenile and filthy minds, minds utterly unable to discern objective truth from subjective feelings. Erase the very existence of Amazon's Rings of Power from your mind. It never happened. There is no such thing, same as Disney's Star Wars vomit. Head Canon for the win.
THIS. ALL OF THIS. My heart breaks that we won't get this perfect adaptation. I wonder if fanartists could create an animated version?
Or failing that, a comic or graphic novel webseries. ANything made by talented and passionate true fans that can be made available to the public to get an adaptation out there that does justice to the world of the Second Age.
I think if you dont actually SELL it .. no power on earth can stop you :)
And get sued for not having the rights?…. That or countless hours for free
@@skylanh4319 yes well .. thats the point. you dont sell it, they cant sue .. its just fan art if you give it away for free .. and yes this would mean no money lol
@@skylanh4319 that's what fanart IS, a creation made out of love for the fandom, not for profit. Fans put countless hours into their creations, big and small, just out of love. An animation or comic made to bring this adaptation to life would be just that, a labor of love.
It may be unintended, and only time will tell how the show turns out, but I think this may turn out to be the greatest critique of the Amazon TV-show. To think that with the same amount of source material the end product could have been this, if only the right person was leading the project. However Amazons show turns out, I think it's safe to say based on the material we've seen so far, it won't be as faithful as this is.
I'll even go as far as to say I choose this UA-cam series of an outline of a script over the Rings of Power end product as the preferred adaptation of the Akallabeth. Rainbow Dave is obviously a person who loves the Legendarium and that makes an immense difference. Stay groovy!
Amazon and Hollywood have no intention of telling Tolkien's stories with Tolkien's characters and Tolkien's messages. They hate what Tolkien represents
In my case, that time was about 20 minits .. YMMV
Tolkien understood what legendary stories are made from and Rainbow Dave understands what drove Tolkien to write LotR and the history of Middle-Earth and all her peoples and love and war.
Amazon thought that money can buy all. And so they failed to catch the soul of Tolkien's writing.
Wow... just reading some of the comments & I feel, mine will be in the minority! Nevertheless, I am really enjoying the show on ThePrime. In turn, I also very much enjoyed this video as well! [Although, full discloser, I did listen as a bedtime story, so admittedly I did drift off to sleep while listening... but I have every intention on listening two or three times to get through the content. The analysis & breakdown are very well thought out & presented!] I appreciate @Tolkien Untangled for taking the time to create such an enjoyable vid, & I fully intend on checking out the rest of this series of vids as well!
@@monig7870 its perfectly ok to like a thing :) but might I ask .. did you read the books?
I really enjoy the fact that your created a FAR better adaptation on your own than a whole team of writers with billions of dollars backing them could over the course of years.
Its impressive really.
it really is amazing, I think the show is ok but his adaptation sounds so much better
and thats why they didn't want anyone like him. pretty sure amazon employed the "white male" we don't want them nor need them approach while looking for writers willing to defecate on tolkien. now if rainbow dave upped his game and became TransRainbow Daveui, throw in some pronouns like xi/xur that are as problematic in practice as it sounds in a still functioning brain that hasn't been stunted by woke politics, then and only then can a non POC or male participate in official Hollywood wokery. The Oscars even made new rules on how many straight white males need to be NOT hired, you can only have a small portion that falls into that shamed and evil subclass of human. When Meritocracy dies, everything collapses. if we are judged not by our character and actions but by unchosen qualities we were born with, how is that a just and fair society? anyone woke just got triggered. fix equity in your own home before you think you can force your fairytale onto others.
the show jsut makes me think of the phrase 'a camel is a horse designed by committee' and this video is about the ghost of the horse that could have existed!! instead of the camel 😭
@@claire2088 wut
You are the brightest star in the sky of Tolkien’s lore and legendarium. I appreciate you, your tenacity, your honesty, your bravery, and your passion. You are one of The Faithful in flesh and blood. Thank you for making these videos.
How lovely of you to say. Thanks so much!
I rather spend two hours watching this video, instead of watching the first 2 episodes of RoP
Yep! Same😄
Same!
Hahahaha, same.
totally agree
Absolutely.
Loved the (deliberately chosen?) tree analogy contrasting the right and wrong way to pick an adaptive path through Tolkien's writings. Surely, Tolkien's real life love of trees would have heartily approved. Also loved the perspective shift on the opening scene of season 1 to tell the story of Numenor in season 3.
Somebody give this man a $billion!
The writers at Amazon desperately need him to come aboard
@@dominic150 and thats why they didn't want anyone like him. pretty sure amazon employed the "white male" we don't want them nor need them approach while looking for writers willing to defecate on tolkien. now if rainbow dave upped his game and became TransRainbow Daveui, throw in some pronouns like xi/xur that are as problematic in practice as it sounds in a still functioning brain that hasn't been stunted by woke politics, then and only then can a non POC or male participate in official Hollywood wokery. The Oscars even made new rules limiting how many of those evil white males you can hire, loop hole is they can just share their private sex life and become a privileged class and they still probably be more honest that most liberal progressives SJW's. When Meritocracy dies, everything collapses. why work and pay taxes so the greediest and most self serving democrats don[t have to work and just get gov't money and handouts that cause massive inflation. when we are judged not by our character and actions but by unchosen qualities we were born with, how is that a just and fair society? anyone woke just got triggered. fix equity in your own home before you think you can force your fairytale onto others.
Can we get this man 1 billion dollars already ?
Please somebody make this a show
Let's start a fundraising.
I think that's the exact problem with ROP. They gave a billion dollars to basically unproven individuals to work on one of the most beloved fictional universe's of all time. If this man had such a budget to work with I think we would have gotten a real masterpiece
@@boycottamazonlotr7023 my guy, he would need 1.000.000 people to donate 1.000 dollars each to reach that number
@@michelecastellotti9172 I bet a good work can be done by just let's say 1 million. Or even less. All he needs is people who draw comics and voice actors. And a cool graphic novel/cartoon can be done quite well. And I think a lot of people would be ready to do it out of passion and for free.
@@boycottamazonlotr7023 i dunno man, for free just out of passion sound like the bullshit that certain game companies say about their overworked developers (looking at you game freak)
So essentially, Earien survives by Ulmo taking interest in Tuor´s line - again. I like it. Shows that THIS Valar is actually supportive of what is going on in middle-earth
Yes. Eärien could be a very very distant cousin of Isildur’s, many generations removed (like Aragorn and Arwen). This is possible because Elros canonically had four different children. Or even if she’s not biologically related to Tuor, she is destined to keep his line alive by being the mother of Isildur’s sons. So that’s likely enough to prompt Ulmo to help her.
Man, I've been thinking and thinking about the idea of Isildur being so pure like Faramir, but then being the first man who is corrupted by the one ring. It would be the irrefutable evidence that no man can resist the ring. And it would have to be shown as equal to the most tragic death of a hero. With the potential to show him struggling under the surface until the ring kills him. Thank you so much for bringing all the lore together. SOOO GOOOD.
As Rainbow Dave says, Isildur did nothing wrong.
Isilidur was never corrupted by the ring. Check out the books, he didn’t go to the crack of doom and walk out like in the movies
@@samwisegamgee8318but he did refuse to destroy it. And in all honesty, since anyone will inevitably resist destroying the Ring in the end, I don’t think “corruption” is the correct word for what happens to Isildur and, eventually, Frodo. Neither of them ever have evil intentions with the keeping of the Ring, and in different ways, both are saved before the Ring can cause true harm to their morality. “Corruption” is a much more fitting word for what happens to Gollum, because his constant exposure to the Ring is mixed with his own internal, inherent flaws; his instant willingness to commit murder to gain the Ring shows us his true character. He always had a speck of easily-exploitable greed inside him, that neither Isildur nor Frodo ever had. The internal character of a Ring-bearer is essential to the timeline of the Ring’s affect on them. Isildur and Frodo never plotted to commit evil with the Ring even after claiming it, and only much longer exposure to the Ring - like Gollum’s length of exposure - would have warped them into committing evil. Whereas Gollum immediately committed acts of evil after claiming it.
39:45 I love that you stress Isildur's character as intended by Tolkien: that he was a hero. How he saved the fruit if the White Tree in Armenelos speaks of such a humble and brave soul. And, as you've pointed out - that makes his slight corruption by the ring even more heartbreaking. That even he wasn't immune to its influence. That being said, when he died he was actually on the way to Imladris, possibly to ask Elrond for advice as to what to do with the ring. He didn't really intend to keep it
Elrond had already told him to throw it in the volcano. He refused to follow the advice.
Isildur wanted the ring to become an heirloom so he knew what to do with it. To be shot by an orc was his saving from corruption
This is quickly becoming my favorite channel on all of YT. A two hour video about numenor from Tolkien Untangled? Cancel my appointments, Martha.
I'm sorry to inform you that today is Martha's day off. She's watching Tolkien untangled.
The Elendil, Muriel, and Pharazon debate literally gave me chills! Rainbow Dave, you are truly a Master of Lore!
I uploaded your seasons as audio in my library, and stampled them with an edited cover of "Rings of Power OST" displaying : The Faithfull Version, so i can listen back to them while driving and otherwise. Great job!
That's awesome!
The brilliant point you’re making is that it is 100% possible to stick with the lore and Tolkiens themes while still being entertaining. This is what I’ve been arguing! There is nothing wrong with original storylines I don’t think any of us have a problem with it as long as they respect what IS there! I have been sending people to this channel hardcore for the past few weeks! Keep it up Rainbow Dave you are a treasure!
It is not a brilliant point but rather the right point! All we Tolkien fans want the films to follow Tolkien's writings as closely as possible, at least in themes and characters.
@@joyis9638 very true.
I'm not sure this is a good tip for the writing of a show...
You do not get it... Look at the other desecrated franchises. The main reason is the ruination of these myth's. The actual agenda is not the inserted politics. The inserted politics is the poison achieving of the main goal: the complete destruction of western culture and western values and moral.
@@griffineagle7 YES! less preaching more crafting :) if youre gonna mess with it, do NOT break its internal logic :)
Your interpretation, passion and love for the work of master Tolkien literally brought tears into my eyes. This video (and your previous one) filled my hearth joy and gave me the experience I expected (and didn’t have at all) from the Amazon’s show. Please continue delivering such an epic work. Thank you so so much, Dave.
From the reviews I've seen of Amazon's adaptating all I get is "that's not how it is", but thanks to Rainbow Dave I can remember it all again as I've read it myself many years ago.
I'm not the biggest Tolien fan and I won't be able to point to all the mistakes made by Amazon. Rainbow Dave is driven by the passion for the works of Tolkien, and that shows here in this beautiful narrative of how a show of the Second Age could be made.
I didn't cry, but my eyes stung... 🥲
I love the idea of Earwen waking up with an Elf attending to her, them having a conversation in (slightly halting on her part) Sindarin, and when he tells her his name is Elrond, she says "You have the same name as one of the sons of that Earendil guy in the legends?" to which he responds "I think of him as 'father' rather than 'that guy in the legends' but ... yes."
I don't know if this would work, but when you mentioned Isildur and Anarion meeting the local men, I had an idea of perhaps a tribe of Haradrim who fled far North from their abhorrent mistreatment at the hands of the King's Men in Harad. In connection with that storyline.
When Isildur and Anarion first come across these men, they are captured due to the hatred they have for Numenoreans, but a bit later, the tribe comes under attack from some source like an Orcish Raid or The Vilest of King's Men who are wrathful towards them.
Isildur and Anarion manage to free themselves in the chaos, but instead of fleeing, they stay to help the tribesmen fight off the attackers.
The leader of the tribe witnesses Isildur or Anarion saving his young son, and comes to understand them as not his enemy. He then swears to aid them and goes with them for a time on their journey.
I don't know if that would work, but I think it's certainly indicative of the type of good Haradrim that Tolkien spoke of in some of his writings (Nature of Middle Earth), and fits with his themes.
In addition, if Amazon is so dedicated to having an ethnically diverse cast, I think that would be a much better way to do so.
That could be a good entry to a tale of the rise and fall of Haradrim empires, inspired by the legends of great African queens.
It could be simpler than that. Amerindian Tribes would capture children and not having a complex society to imprison or guard them, would adopt them and raise them as children of the tribe. Another way to get involved in a foreign tribe would be to be placed there as hostages in some diplomatic move.
I just found out that Hollywood produced a movie "based" of the Dahomey Amazons called "the Woman King"
And is already firing all guns of wokeness on the people who critise the obvious false narative of the part of African history.
Maybe Black Panther was the only product where wokeness was used in an acceptable way and probably the lost.
the trend today is forcefeeding the audience with wokeness and getting angry when the audience chokes.
@@kamion53 I do dearly hope that in time, as Africa becomes more and more advanced, and the literacy rate increases, that we get stories and media from people there who love the myths and culture of the continent as Tolkien did with his own lands, as opposed to underwhelming corporate pandering.
@@CoolKidMethew Problem is that what of the rich African culture reaches the West seems to be filtered through either the lense of Afrocentrism ( as reaction on Eurocentrism) or the lense of wokeness.
Maybe it's time Africa creates it's own Bollywood like India did. Not that are not made movies now, but it should be at the scale of Hollywood and Bollywood, lets call it Beniwood.
And when there is already a Beniwood, it does not get the attention as Bollywood gets in the European cinema's. Mainstream cinema's have their part of Bollywood movies, where an African movie is still an art-home affair.
Please, write this script! 😍 In 10 years some studio will probably give another shot at adapting the second age... As Scar once said, be prepared! LOL
Dave you knew things were going a certain way when news of the scholar was let go/fired..
What I value is integrity. That's why I listen even though in some instances I may not agree.
You are one of the best Mellon.
Imo it felt like giant expensive fan fiction. At best 5/10.
It looks great but there's not heart Dave.
Id rather re-watch the original trilogy, hunt for gollum or even born of hope 👍
I agree with this completely. Integrity is so rare these days when these studios adapt beloved properties. Integrity is the very reason I listen and re-listen to this channel. He can do a “what if?” episode and stay faithful to the source so that it still resembles and even fits into the legendarium. That takes talent. This channel is miles above the rest.
Wow! This is amazing, I can’t wait for Part 3 on Season 4. But take as long as you need to do it PROPERLY, and do not be concerned about the time it takes. I’m very willing to wait for quality content, especially if it’s free.
Screw that, where can I donate? I know more money does not equal speed but still...somebody need to get paid for this content.
I am one who has long felt that Numenor’s downfall would be very nearly unadaptable. That being said- what a great idea Rainbow Dave, i came around to it!
May I say, to counteract those other commenters you mentioned, I am very glad you made this before seeing TROP. It prevents your ideas from being influenced by theirs. Also...I watched a 3-hour Shad-rant on Knight's Watch last night in reaction to the first episode. Just the first one. He and Nathan spent so much time pausing it to take notes that they had no time for the second episode. Between their critiques (which were *only* focused on the writing; they barely even touched on the changes made) and my own impressions, (that they are trying to squeeze Galadriel's growth throughout the First Age into the first few months of the last decade of the Second Age...while turning everyone around her into passive idiots to prevent the appearance that she would need to learn anything at all...and also completely mistaking the Elvish relationship with death) I suspect it is actually easier to start this from scratch than to try "fixing" what Amazon made.
Edit: I love, love, LOVE your idea about Earien in Imladris! Also, Elrond would probably be just as legendary as Earendil to her, so meeting him in person would probably be a bit overwhelming for her at first. Would she have met elves on her journey up the river? Because if not, Imladris would also be the first Elves she ever meets in her life, despite knowing of them in theory through history and the political divide in Numenor. I also like the tongue-in-cheek cheek parallel of Elrond protecting the future wife of the future king of Gondor and Arnor at Imladris. Even if she isn't strictly a relative. And it could offer, not only character, but also interesting relationship development. How does Isildur react to her change over her time with the Elves, even as it stirs up hard feelings with the King's Men?
The Eärien and Elrond storyline actually adds a lot of weight to the canon - because Tolkien actually wrote that Elrond took in Isildur’s wife and newborn youngest son Valandil at Rivendell during the War of the Last Alliance. It is because of Elrond’s care that Valandil and his mother became the last survivors of the House of Isildur after Isildur and his three older sons were slain. Valandil was then raised in Rivendell before claiming the crown of Arnor. So this would make even more sense if Isildur’s wife already had good history with Elrond and knew him as a trusted friend.
How do you make a 1 billion dollar LOTR show without having Rainbow Dave on board to help out
Don't make it in Hollywood.
The "Rings of Power" is simply SAURON writing about Arda.
Nothing less.
To watch this program is to support MELKOR.
Not hyperbole. You have a choice. Do not support evil.
I'm half way into this video and... WHY ARE YOU NOT THE WRITER OF THE AMAZON SERIES???? This is so fun and interesting and it feels like Tolkiens world! None of these feelings i get from the amazon series. Ughhhh
Your erudite knowledge of JRRT's intricate legendarium, and skillful "dot-connecting" of the first age with the second was all my imagination needed to project your thoughtful, logical version on the screen of my brain theatre.
If it's true that each of five scheduled seasons will consist of eight one-hour episodes, your last two videos have already saved me the hours in an entire day. Outstanding.
Thank you for sharing the enthusiasm and insights you've found in Tolkien's body of work.
Your generosity will certainly be returned to you a hundredfold.
Thanks for your lovely words!
I think that Earien's story is truly fascinating. The seastorm of human history and the mild river of the elvish one is so wonderful to see and feel from her perspective. Through that journey she might become a very interesting female character, who can achieve strength and wisdom not by fighting (which is so fashionable for "strong female characters" nowadays), but by being kind and learning from the world around her.
I wouldn't watch a minute of Amazon's travesty but I've listened to hours of your version. Fine work, my friend. Very fine work.
There is something very special with your story telling ability.
This would be pretty epic to see on screen. As well as the first 2 seasons video you did, and also I am sure the videos on seasons 4 and 5, I can already see it playing out. No doubt a show like this could spawn ideas for other adaptations of certain stories. I dont think you can go wrong if you follow what Tolkien wrote, business and story wise, but oh well. Cheers for putting out there that there is a way to approach second age source material with good faith, and still get something that works on screen. And honestly, i think it would work big time. Especially with this sort of unorthodox and non-cliche approach, very fitting for source material in my opinion.
So much love and respect for Tolkien… such a long video to indulge in! What a pleasure, what a wonderful journey! Thanks for taking us on this journey!
I love your adaptation so much! Please keep them coming, whatever the length!
There's a really fascinating subversion of the dichotomy of "death" and "the desire for deathlessness". If you gave people the choice between two parties, one representing an acceptance of death, and the other a striving against it, you'd expect people to assume the second one was the "good guys", rather than how they turn out in Númenor.
And Elrond making a different choice is ultimately what divides him from the sins of Númenor. Elrond’s rejection of mortal death is his inherent right. He has the blood of not only Elves, but a Maia. By birthright, he is entitled to immortality via Nimloth, Idril, and both of his parents, and embraces it as a part of his roots. Whereas the Númenóreans are far more removed from those roots; their most recent ancestors are mortal, and their forefather rejected his kinship with the immortal folk. So they have no right to reject mortality. But Elrond does.
So, here i am. Watching a 2 hour UA-camvideo which is ways better than what amazon did with 1 billion dollar.
Well, actually, I'm kind of advocating for not changing anything. Imo a perfect adaptation would be an animated audio book 🤣
But I'm aware of how unrealistic that is, so I'm willing to settle on not contradicting anything directly.
thats what exactly said to some haters on a forum.
@@omerfidan892 Unfortunately we're already way past that point... Very disappointing.
"I'm acutely aware that taking someone else's body of work and "fixing" or "improving" it is infinitely easier than taking a blank page and turning that into a body of work".
Hear, hear.
A very astute description of sitting in front of a white page not knowing how and where to start from….I was always fascinated with people that excell at storytelling…holding all of this in your mind and making it coherent is completely beyond me…I build and heal, each of us must work with the gifts they received
Your storyline for Eärien made me tear up, what the heck!! So beautiful.
👏👏👏👏👏
I so so soooo wish you were the head writer of the show. But I’m grateful that we selfishly get to keep you for ourselves- your videos are my only way of coping with Amazon’s utter destruction of the most magnificent stories and characters.
Sending all the good things, vibes, love, hope, any and all of it your way ❤
Thank you! Very much appreciated.
The fact you place such importance on linguistic world-building is absolutely beautiful. Honestly, THIS should have been Rings of Power, no doubt about it!
I never really expected a modern day, multi billion dollar company to capture the heart, soul, and ethos of one man's genius from nearly 100 years ago. The show could be both good and faithful, but I doubt they really want it to be.
They didn't even try and it shows, they tried the exact opposite with full intent and malice. That's why they deserve to fail hard and are worthy of all our contempt.
Dude. I am inspired. A few minutes in, and I want to see this version.
You capture the heart of it all Dave! Fantastic!
My god, this show is so good!! I really hope you keep this series going all the way to season 5. I can honestly tell you that I will be listening to this multiple times. Cannot say the same for(at least) season one of RoP.
13:20 That is correct, IMO. The essential thread of Tolkien's story about Numenor, and men in general.
Tolkien expounded that the human fear of death was created, or at least magnified by, Morgoth and later, Sauron.
As part of the saddest of Tolkien's tales, in the Silmarillion Morgoth chains his captive, Hurin, to the exterior of Thangorodrim. There to witness until eternity (with Morgoth's vision) everything bad happening in Middle Earth, especially to his family. Yet Hurin refuses to be intimidated, even by death. He mocks Morgoth, knowing that death will release him. When Morgoth says that death is emptiness, he mocks him still, accurately saying that Morgoth is utterly ignorant of what death brings to men and what The One intends for the souls of men after death.
Probably drawn from Tolkien's religious beliefs, it could have been an underlying theme in the series. But that would require writers/actors with understanding of, and respect for, Tolkien's works and little bit less self-respect.
It’s such a shame they will never do this.
Thank YOU, elf-friend!
This is genuinely brilliant.
If the folks at Amazon had any sense they should just hire you and put you in charge of the writing team and just reboot the entire thing and start again from scratch using your outline.
I am clearly living your adaptation within my imagination. I got shivers from the prologue, and I could definitely listen to you detailing every episode of your work. Maybe like a radio-novel with voice actors? Anyway, yours is the story every lover of Tolkien and his works deserve. Thanks for sharing
I love the idea of a radio-novel adaptation ❤❤❤❤
You have kindled my passion of studying Tolkien once again. Thank you.
One thing for sure, based on the two episodes of RoP, there is no way anyone at Amazon capable of executing Tolkien's stories to the level of your storytelling. They neither have the love nor the talent to make it happen.
Ar-Pharazon seems to be modeled after Pompey, by Tolkien. He's charismatic, a good general, smart, and even a little wise (in a villainous way). Pompey also wanted to be king of the world, and made a pretty good start on it.
So yeah, my general idea is that Miriel can't decide what side she's on, and she also can't decide if she's been romanced, seduced, or even usurped and raped. She's a bundle of indecision, and she has no clear goals or plans. The opposite of a strong king or queen. Part of her seems sensible and kind, but the rest of her wants somebody to tell her what to do. And when a rich, foolish, beautiful young woman wants that, lots of people will volunteer to push her around.
Your version -- that Miriel partially consents, because she is scrambling to get some kind of power back, over her country for its good, and over Ar-Pharazon to keep him from doing worse - gives Miriel a bit more dignity. But of course it also makes Miriel's position with the Faithful a bit more iffy.
As time goes on, one might show her starting to get a backbone and helping the Faithful in small ways, even though she is still afraid to make any big moves or decisions. That way, people can feel sad for her when she makes for the Meneltarma too late.
And as to Tolkien's Christian influence, the name seems to be a reference to biblical Pharaoh, who in his pride defies the God of Israel.
@@lausdeo4944 Or King Nimrod and constructing the tower of Babel
@@SephTheHuntress Correct. Numenor is definitely similar to a tragic babylon.
I agree. Also I think it’s likely that Elendil or one of his Faithful offered Míriel a spot on their ships when they were evacuating Númenor, but Míriel refused out of guilt for having failed her people and not done more to stop Pharazôn.
Can we crowdfund Rainbow Dave's version of this show?
What material does Amazon have the rights to for The Rings of Power show? Well we know have an answer courtesy of the showrunners J.D. Payne and Patrick McKay in an interview with Vanity Fair. The trade was asking questions fans wanted to know the answers to and this was definitely one of the questions that was endlessly debating among the Tolkien fan base.
So what did Amazon buy? “We have the rights solely to The Fellowship of the Ring, The Two Towers, The Return of the King, the appendices, and The Hobbit,” Payne says. “And that is it. We do not have the rights to The Silmarillion, Unfinished Tales, The History of Middle-earth, or any of those other books.” That takes a huge chunk of lore off the table and has left Tolkien fans wondering how this duo plans to tell a Second Age story without access to those materials. “There’s a version of everything we need for the Second Age in the books we have the rights to,” McKay says. “As long as we’re painting within those lines and not egregiously contradicting something we don’t have the rights to, there’s a lot of leeway and room to dramatize and tell some of the best stories that [Tolkien] ever came up with.” Tolkien simply never got round to finishing all his stories in his lifetime. The works from The Silmarillion, which are the most complete form of the First and Second Ages themselves, are still incomplete. Christopher Tolkien tried to find the most complete versions for the book. However there were details Tolkien worked on and hadn’t finalized by the time of his death.
This means the series will be based on The Appendices at the end of The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King. Which, admittedly, does overlap in stories between the two books, but if it is mentioned in The Silmarillion and not in the Appendices, it is off-limits. And this has to do with the rights from the Tolkien Estate and from J.R.R. Tolkien himself.
Tolkien had never wanted to sell the rights to his books to the movie companies, but he was forced to eventually for the money in the 1970s to Saul Zaentz, and the animated Rankin and Bass productions of The Hobbit and Ralph Bakshi’s The Lord of the Rings (among a few other small budget films) were made. But those were the only rights that were sold. Even for Peter Jackson, he only had the rights to The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings. So, for example, when Radagast the Brown was introduced in Jackson’s Hobbit movies, he had to be very careful with not saying that Tolkien had mentioned there were other wizards in Middle Earth (there are, in fact, a few more mentioned in other works) because he didn’t have the rights to it.
Been waiting for this the whole week! Thank God it's two hours!!
I love your approach in fleshing out a story. I love the theme of death and immortality. And you are not breaking the lore with the new characters. You just add to it in a non destructive way. So no big changes.
You also have to say Miriel was the first human to order an armor shirt off of Amazon. She saved tons on shipping by being a prime member. Her use of Amazon for getting armor and props knockoffs is famous among the Numenor and even the elves.
Don’t knock it.
Amazon has millions of Chinese child laborers lined up making those exact mail shirts to sell to the ‘fans’.
We’ll probably able to buy a full on onesy by the time it’s all said and done.
Bored of the Rings feels more like Tolkien than Amazon's tripe.
So, when are you starting your crowd-funder to make this? After the backlash that hit RoP, there's probably a few of the fellowship that'd put their hands in their pockets. Maybe a few million of us.
Yay for subtitles! If a prospective audience-member is disinclined to read subtitles for Quenya or Sindarin then they shouldn't be watching a show based on Tolkien's works.
You inspired me to draw architecture for Numenor. Before the seafaring conquest age of the Numenoreans, everyone has front yards and most people live in single story stone/post&lintel buildings. The kings live in extravagant circular houses of state. Then the buildings proceed upward until there are many towers throughout the cities. Courtyards are acquired as a design from their conquered people. Wide roads for their horses to tramp. Large windows because no one would attack. The kings’ residences become more perfectly square/rectangular to show how great they are, and how much more efficiently they create more room to display their mostly ill begotten wealth and treasures. The decor changes from flowers, plants and animals to symbols of conquerors (sickle/sword/net) to abstract symbols of life and death.
…Now I just have to get on to Gondorian and Arnorian architecture…
With the architectural changes, one could pan in and out of scenes throughout Numenor’s history. No narrator or time stamp required.
If you could finish out the remainder of the series then that would be awesome. Then I can recommend this to people when I want to show them what a good Tolkien adaptation would look like. A shame you didn’t get $1 billion to make this series. Cheers.
They COULD have easily stuck to the lore. But they never had any intention of doing so.
That's why they got rid of the one genuine Tolkien scholar working with them, Tom Shippey, as soon as they could.
And immediately swapped him out for an identity rights activist.
you might be able to sell replacing Tolkien lore with something, but you have a real trouble replacing it with nothing.
#1 Tolkien channel! These are amazing.
These series of videos should have been mandatory viewing for all of the show runners and script writers of the show before the project ever started. Instead they chose to go a completely different route....sad knowing what could've been in comparison to what they delivered.
you are a true J.R.R. Tolkien fan my friend i can FEEL the PASSION and LOVE that you have for this world like many of us, i wish us fans were making the story
Thank you sir, THANK YOU for this version, it is a treasure. It could be cool to realize that like in a comic book/graphic novel style, and put it on video - like drawings with voiceovers and music. (Or maybe even to hire a professional animator). I think a lot of people would be willing to do that, because of their love for Tolkien alone, but if we would be able to collect funds for this project it would be even better. If you, in a future, would be able to realize that project, I would put all my time and effort to support it, promote it, and, since I'm a composer, write some soundtrack for it. A Tolkien story realized by tolkien fans.
Difference between Tolkien untangled and the broken sword? Amazon did not pay Tolkien untangled to fly out to watch the premier 2 episodes and bribe him to give false positive reviews.
I especially like your idea about Tar Pharazon- Miriel- Elendil scene
I CAN’T WAIT FOR THE NEXT EPISODE! Make it 3 hours please lol
The minute I heard the tolkien scholar got fired i knew it was a bad sign
This is the Canon Rings of Power i chose for myself
Numenoreans declaring war against the Valar and sailing towards the Undying Lands has the same vibe as Roman Emperor Caligula declaring war against Poseidon and ordering his soldiers to stab the ocean with their spears. Both are incredibly dumb ideas. The former just led to Numenor being swallowed by a massive tidal wave.
One thing I'm not certain about is Galadriel using her elven ring, I thought in the second half of the 2nd Age that Cirdan, Elrond and Galadriel could not use their rings without being controlled by Sauron. It was only after Sauron's defeat that the elven rings could be safely used.
Yes, but as pointed out in the pinned comment, Galadriel didn’t necessarily need the Ring to do this. She throws down Dol Guldur by herself after the One Ring’s destruction, and thus the loss of her ring’s power. So she’s able to do stuff like this with her own magic, beyond the ring.
This series you have crafted, even here in abstract, truly, it is a gift.
You're optimistic, I'll give you that.
The Numenoreans did not piss off Eru. Eru is beyond being pissed off because everything is ny his will. When the Numenoreans assaulted Aman, the Valar were faced with a choice: interfere with Men and their destiny against their promise, or allow themselves to be overrun in the undying lands. And, so, Manwe cried out to his father, Illuvatar for his aid. At the request of the Powers of the West, Eru broke the world and bent the seas, removed the undying lands to somewhere that men could not reach and drowned the idyllic Island of Numenore forcing men to keep to Middle Earth. Simple stuff for one such as he. Not pissed, just doing the kids a solid.
You should had written this show
You have to make your videos less interesting. I have chores to do.. I'll listen to 15 minutes turned into a half hour turned into 40 minutes... I'm not getting my chores done, Sir! I'm a Gnostic Christian and I call God the ONE (who is all) very close the all father. Another name implies 'The source of all being'
What would it take for your to be a show runner? Why don’t you have a Patreon is there another way to donate.
I don't really know why I don't have Patreon yet. I will set up an account, but I want to make a video introducing it, and I just haven't had time to do that yet. Thanks though. I'm sure I'll set one up soon.
The Rings of Power is a mess of a show, the writers are 3rd rate hacks. Nothing makes sense. The dialogue is embarrassing to listen to, the hero is an egomaniac, the travel speeds, the dumb premises, the idiotic plot holes. Even if this wasnt based on Tolkien's work it would still suck.
I think this format was a creative solution to talk about this show. The theme for this show certainly will be about wasted opportunity for us, and these videos are about what could've and should've been. We saw it long ago. The only question was whether we could lower our unrealistic expectations enough and objectively call it a good show. If it had workable Tolkien themes, then hey that's a pretty nice deal for all these seasons, where they also could work on improvement.
I guess that improvement COULD still happen, in this season and beyond, yet based upon what I saw in the first 2 episodes....ouch. I haven't been about all the drama surrounding this show, but honestly it does make me mad about the wasted opportunity.
"... courtesy to the showrunners ..." HAHAHAHAHA. They are due not a scrap of courtesy after the offensive desecration they delivered to us. They instead deserve our scorn and our mockery.
I respect the sentiment however given when you wrote it.
Even if this doesn't get produced for screen, there's potential here for a grassroots fan-art comic. Just sayin' ...
The ONLY thing Amazon did in this show which I appreciate is giving Elendil some next-level sex appeal. Hoo boy.
A little episode in Pellargir: A sympathetic numenorian character who complains of having a love and wanting to do the honorable thing and marry her (even if I don't have to becasue I am a Numenorian), but if I do, she cannot give me hiers. Our children may die of old age in less than a century, while I am still in my prime!
oh I would LOVE to animate this.
I'm no good at scriptwriting, but if I find a suitable piece of music I might do a scene or two without dialogue. your description of the final scene in particular gave me some really good ideas!
You could have Eärien in your three characters be a little younger, and a history/mythology buff and a bit of a pain that way before the trip so Isildur thinks of her as a bit of an annoyance before she is swept away. She would then know the history of these ruins she passes as she goes upstream and be interested in Elrond's tales of the ultimate ancestor. And she could reattach Elrond to his family of Numenorians and provide a reason for him to find the men and return her to them. And she will have grown up in the process enough to change how Isildur sees her when they meet again.
There is a divine power in water... You mean the sea is always right? 😂
This isnt Tolkiens Numenor. Lets at least call it what Amazon has turned it into ... Hollywood 2022 Numenor.