Ten Facts about Númenor | Tolkien Top Tens
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- Опубліковано 6 чер 2024
- A unique island. A pillar of the Second Age. Sauron's greatest win!
Time to take a look at ten wonderful facts about the Second Age nation of Númenor.
Check out my First Age Silmarillion Explained Series.
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**Dancing Bears! An update to Number 7: Of Birds & Beasts**
So, I completely neglected to mention the dancing bears of Númenor, but they are such a wonderful detail, and they're only mentioned in the very newly published Nature of Middle-earth.
Tolkien tells us that there were many bears living on Númenor, and like all the animals of that island, they were friendly to the men they coexisted with. Although they didn't like to be disturbed.
Anyway, Tolkien went on to write that sometimes, the great black bears would come down from the mountains and visit the homes of their Númenorean friends. And there they would perform the 'bear-dances'. They did these dances for the entertainment of the Men; and we're even told that shortly after the annual Eruhantalë celebrations, the bears would perform the Great Bear-dance (also known as ruxoalë), in which up to fifty bears would participate to delight their Mannish friends. So awesome!
And if the Men laughed at the dancing bears, the bears would get very cross. Hahahaha!
"Today's the day the teddy bears have their picnic...."
Hey guys I heard that the Tolkien estate is gonna be aggressive on copyrights, check channel Tolkien Lore. He did a video about it, i dont know if they're going to strike the small channels first before going after the medium and big ones. I dont know it's because the fakes Tolkien scholars and big Media like Amazon hates the real fans are using the literal books, quotes and Tolkien's letters to combat them.
I feel everyone who does Lord of the rings lore and Tolkien's work need to know.
@@firefoxriouyh6541 Yeah, I heard about it too. But from my understanding, if someone is doing a social or academic commentary, criticism, and review on Tolkien’s writings, then they should be safe from copyright. There is a fair use law in the United States and I think a similar law is called fair dealing law in the UK.
If a content creator decided to narrate the entirety of Tolkien’s books (like the format of an audiobook), then they would be in infringement of the copyright.
Wonder if they were multicolored.... .grateful dead style
Actually I think Sauron payed quite a heavy price for his actions with Numenor, yes he was able to come back but never again could he change his form, he was stuck in his iconic dark lord form from that moment on. He could never again use deception to achieve, he only had miltary might to rely on. and that didn't work well for him, he soon after got into a war which he ended up losing, and he attempted comeback at the end of the third age was put down before it could really get started. So while Numenor was a big success for him at the time I believe it sowed the seeds for his ultimate downfall.
Being a multicultural person with ancestry all around the Mediterranean I find it far easier to tell people I have Numenorean ancestry when asked about my ethnic background. Can’t wait until your next video!
I was expecting you to say you find it far easier to tell people apart according to their place of birth. But you disappointed me😢
That’s a great idea. I’m American; in fact my family has lived in the USA for at least 8 generations. If asked, I’m going to say that my ancestors were from Numinor and WAKANDA.
In the words of that true American P. T. Barnum “There’s a sucker born every minute.”
@@vpombovp you sound like a bit simple.
Based on my feet and appetite, I’m a very tall Hobbit. ( my feet are a bit hairy ) Single Malt scotch must be the fabled Ent Draught.
I find it far easier to tell people I have the B.G.s & then just run-away farting really loudly.
The B.G.s are the Bubble Guts
What I always loved about the Akalabeth story in the Silmarillion was that the actual destruction of Numenor was described in about a page in a half. Compared to how long and detailed many other scenes are in this book, the actual destruction of Numenor happens in a flash. And then it’s just over. And it leaves me awestruck at the power of Eru to just stomp it down like a giant stepping on a cockroach.
Elendil was 322 years old when he died in fighting with Sauron so over the ages some of the great descentants of Elros live very long too.
I would gladdly watch a "Ten Million Facts about Númenor". Thanks for narrating this with such passion.
Now all I can think of is Sauron yeeting people with his mace and shouting “UNLIMITED POWER!!!”
You are my favourite Tolkien You Tube channel, I'm so glad I found you Dave of many colours ❤💛💚💙💜
Yeah he’s the best
Same! I also really like girlnextgondor as well. She made most her videos private until she fixes artwork credits I think, but they're cool.
HOWEVER To Be Noted: he does not brake 💔the thing (Lore) 📜that he loves in order to learn from it.
I like hom along with nerd pf the rings, men of the west, and of course dave.
I liked white better. -Gandalf
This -almost- one hour video is going to be better than the whole Amazon series, you are the best my dude. Keep it up you have my support
One small quibble: the White Tree of Gondor didn’t burst into bloom anew after the crowning of Aragorn. Rather, Aragorn, with Gandalf, found a seedling in a high mountain place where the exceedingly rare fruit(s) of the White Tree were planted by the king(s) upon discovery.
Yeah, you're right. I re-read that chapter recently and cringed that I'd got it wrong in this video.
@@tolkienuntangled I love this channel; quibbles, cringes & all! Tolkien fosters a bueatufitul community imho
Btw you prolly can roll your R's better than I can
It's always so refreshing to have a new video from Dave of Many Colors, specially when things in life are "iffy" so to speak. Thank you Dave, you bring hope with the turn of the tide.
Much love to Dave of Many Colours 👽💛💚💙🧡❤️ from young Gandalf the Blond 😎
Dave, my man, you are not alone in your lack of rolling R’s. I took French in high school purely because I knew I could pronounce it, whereas I’m hopeless with the rolled R’s of Spanish. Go figure, I married a Colombian, and managed to learn quite a bit of Spanish, but still can’t roll my R’s to save my life🤷🏻♀️✨
I have a tip for that
Ask your wife to tell you this story:
There's a romantic boy. There's a romantic girl.
Then have her ask you about it (Is there a romantic boy? Yes/no)
Then, have her ask if she is romantic, or if you are. Then have her say that she is is fast/quick. Make her ask you if she is quick (have her answer NO, at this point) Then, have her ask you if she is romantic or quick/fast.
Let me know how it goes?
I have often wondered if there is a place in Britain where people nevere learn to pronounce the letter "R.". There is another narrator who does Mythology - whose Rs are all Ws - he also has a problem with separately pronounced vowels that appear together. The word, "creation" is "kweshun" - and there are so many problems with his diction, I just can't listen without having to constantly rewind and replay. But there is a rather well-known chat show host in Britain who has the same issue - and also a really well known Historian (little blonde woman) who has done television presentations that have been sold to PBS companies all over the world.
So I've always wondered if they've all come from the same area of Britain.
Thanks a lot for this video my friend!
Númenor hits a nerve in me because it reminds me of how humans can be so so great and so so evil at the same time...
As always…Perfect! So nice to come home to Tolkien’s world after a long day in this one.
^ This perfectly sums up my feelings about this YT channel! I look forward to my alone time after everyone else is in bed, everyday!!
Are Mondays really that bad? Not with these videos - 47 minutes of joy await me later today!
I didn't know that about Tolkien's son Michael also having recurring dreams of a sinking-Atlantis motif. His unfinished project -- presented in volume V of the HISTORY OF MIDDLE EARTH series -- involving pairs of Father-and-Son incarnations appearing throughout history, connecting the actual downfall of Numenor to modern day -- and even into Tolkien's future, in the NOTION CLUB PAPERS -- would have led me to suspect that Tolkien knew early on that his son Michael also had such dreams as the one that haunted his own mind.
Ref 43:10 - Sauron did not have the one ring on his person when Numenor was cast into the sea. He left it in middle earth and it was waiting for him when he was able to return.
I feel like you understate how badly losing his physical form diminished Sauron. Sauron's greatest abilities are deception and trickery. Losing his physical form in the waves of Eru's wrath meant he could no longer shapeshift or take a fair form. Its hard to deceive someone when your a 9 ft tall being of walking armor.
Yes! Dave of Many Colours strikes again!
A top 10 eucatastrophies could be pretty cool. Like, ten times it feels like Eru intervened in the story. Maybe calling them all eucatastrophies would be a bit much, but for example some of gandalf's foresight feels implanted by Eru, and certainly parts of Beren and Luthien feel that way, and Thingol meeting Melian. Would be cool to have a list capturing moments like that.
The only 2 interventions by Eru in Arda that I am aware of was 1. The Banishment of Melkor to.... somewhere outside Arda and 2. The destruction of Numenor. In all other cases it was the Valar doing the intervening. Unless you have more examples?
The plinth upon which the story stands is in the words of Gandalf: "There are other forces at work in Middle Earth, and not all of them are evil."
@@RobRoss Gandalf’s return to Arda as Gandalf with White was direct intervention by Eru.
But I think some of those “feelings” are influence by Eru.
Like Gandalf feeling Gollum had some larger part to play in the story…
Tolkien said in a letter that Eru directly intervened to ensure Gollum fell into the fires of Mount Doom.
And He also ensured everyone would arrive in Imladris on the same day for the Council, as Elrond mentions, and He made Bilbo find the Ring, and Frodo come forth at the Council as Ringbearer... Tolkien's vision of Eru was that of a conductor as well as a composer, playing His part in a way no one without all senses can understand (like a conductor can't be detected in a CD recording), but always present
This video is everything I love about your channel - drawing out context from Tolkien’s life and really interesting connections and details that are often overlooked by other lore channels - while still making it fun - just amazing work
Thanks! I'm really glad you enjoyed it.
YES! Another indescribably awesome video! Dave, you sir have reached GOAT status in the Tolkien UA-cam space.
Thanks! I'm really glad you enjoy the channel.
Great video Rainbow Dave! Your channel always brightens my day!
This is without a doubt the longest Top Ten video I have ever seen and yet I feel like I'm wasting far less of my time than most other Top Tens on this god forsaken site. At least I can see the passion you put into your work up there on the screen instead of watchmojo turning out a 10:01 video on the Top Ten Easy Bake Oven Snacks every 6 hours.
You call this a god forsaken sight... Really. Such a horrid thing to say.
@@emsey6097 Site. S-i-t-e. I'm talking about youtube as a whole.
@@samwill7259 OK then your forgiven. Sorry, sounded like somthing else.
@@emsey6097 Don't know why I need forgiveness for YOU misinterpreting something I said in plain english but ok.
Mate I love listening to your lore videos! So glad there is someone who loves Tolkien as much as me :)
Lol, your count downs always crack me up super hard, lol! Another great video, thank you Rainbow Dave!
Your enthusiasm in your videos are very refreshing.
I love these top ten videos; they're a license to just go out and explore. I have to say though, the history of the White Tree might have been the inspiration for the story of Swamp Castle. One last observation: My enjoyment of these videos varies exponentially with their length, so, keep it up.
Banger of a video Dave - and might I add your Sidious is on point!
This is a welcome surprise on a Monday
Great video as always.
P.S. Happy Pi Day.
Happy Pi Day!
An Excellent video for an excellent civilization. I enjoyed it! Thank you!
Phenonemal stuff. Many thanks for the immense efforts.
Well met RD!! What a pleasant surprise! You've made this week start right. Keep up the great work Mellon! "Elendil! Elendil! For the West!!"
They have quaking Aspen which have white bark and gold leaves (in the fall) plants still need chlorophyll. They aren't broad or tall but they grow from roots that spread so a whole mountainside is often 1 organism so to us they look like individual trees but they are actually just 1 underneath. That is how they all change color at the same moment.
Tolkein fans are welcome to see the aspens in autumn and star wars fans are welcome to visit Muir woods and learn about the Native American Indian tribe the Miwok people.
I've never seen the Aspen's, but I've spent a good bit of time in Muir Woods. A really beautiful place.
Thanks for the top-ten lists. You have a way of bringing together so much that reveals so much of the internal connections -Tolkien probably never consciously created, but instintively developed out of his deep love of deep themes!
Thank you so much, dear Rainbow Dave, to give out so many interesting and actually vital facts about Tolkien himself to understand his writings more deeply. I always thought that he was profoundly connected to the collective consciousness of humanity and his legendarium reflects an ancient, really ancient history on earth, maybe rooting in multiple ages that are much longer stretched than in his legendarium. That may be the reason for its popularity (apart from Tolkien’s wonderful and all encompassing writing), it touches a deep inner knowing in so many of us.
I’m really thankful for your brilliant, beautiful work, dearest Rainbow Dave, thank you and blessed be✨😊💜🙏🏼✨🌈✨💜💚💙✨🌸🌿✨
Catching up on the few videos I missed…GREAT JOB RD!
I'm loving these surprise top-ten videos!
Oh man, and you killed it on my favorite prequel Star Wars moment!
Awesome video as always, so glad I found this channel. Your knowledge and insight is very welcome, bravo!
Thanks!
Oooh cool a new style video!
Love this channel
Wow, love your vids and the way you are able to untangle such rich, deep lore. Im binging all your content, cant wait for your detailing of the true Rings of Power seasons 3 to 5!
Thanks!
Tall men yes, but considering the elves, Thingol was the tallest of all elves at 9 feet tall. Galadriel was the tallest female elf at 6'4". Elves ranged from 5'6" - 7' generally.
…i’m not even joking, my day did get better after epicly saying “oiolairë, lairelossë”
Never knew of the dreaming Tolkien(s) & how it related to his writings & personal life. Dancin Bears in Arda?? Nothing left to do but smile, smile, smile. Tolkien was (and Dave you are) completely epic! Great star wars analogy
Very awesome! Loved that last one about Tolkien's dream. Oh and maybe "top ten people from middle earth to chill with" lol Pipin would be a party animal.
This took time. I enjoyed each minute of it. Matur nuwon.
And I mean time to make, so well done.
I just found your channel yesterday and I'm in love! I work from home and its slow season for what I do so I am absolutely power housing your videos. Keep it up brother much love
Thanks! I'm really glad you're enjoying the channel.
The story of the White Tree reminds me of the story from Monty Python's Holy Grail. So I planted a tree, but it got cut down and burnt. So I planted another one, but it got cut down and burnt. So I planted another one, but it withered and died, then I planted another one-but that *also* withered and died, but the 5th one stayed up! 😆
As a MP Holy Grailist I had the same thoughts...far back in the first age of Tolkien (two ages pre-Peter Jackson!).
That's why I love this channel over others likewise. He puts it all together in the most engaging way!
Love your videos so much.
Very interesting. This reminds me of my readings of Tolkeins LOTR and Silmarillion
I know it's obvious how much Numenor is like Atlantis, but that's even true when you get into Plato's original words about what caused Atlantis' downfall (and not just relying on modern pop culture interpretations). Also, there's one theory that the story of Atlantis is inspired by the destruction of Dogerland (an ancient land mass that used to connect the British Isles to mainland Europe before a tsunami drowned it all), and that gives me major "End of Beleriand" vibes. Maybe something to look into when you get to the part about the War of Wrath and its aftermath.
This is fun. Thanks
i really like your Sindarin accent, it does the beautiful language Tolkien invented for us great justice. maybe rolled 'R's' are a regional accent thing anyway.
Top vid as usual
so good, i would adore more top 10s
channel is awesome. keep it up :)
Nice work dude
Masterfully done! I would like to know more about the Witch King conquering of Arnor and what led up to those events and the repercussions following those events that led to the 3rd age and the 2nd wave of wizards. I would appreciate your insights. Thank you for sharing your passion and talents.
I can't promise it will answer all your questions, but I do have an older video all about the Witch-king and his wars with the Dunedain of Arnor 🙂
ua-cam.com/video/6Zl8cUhnf2k/v-deo.html
Another great episode! Dont be sad about not rolling your R's... You have a wonderful narating voice!!! ;-)
I'm listening to this while playing Scrabble, and I've just played the word "groovy." Iluvatar is with us.
Woo hoo another video
Hey man. So, I'm new to your channel, but I've loved everything I've seen so far. Absolutely brilliant. Keep them coming.
Now I have a lore question for you. We talk about what Sauron wanted with regards to his dominion over all Arda. That includes the elves. He wants dominion over all beings. So, why would Sauron leave his stronghold of Mordor where he stands the best chance of defeating the elves eventually, to have admittedly direct influence over the very lives of every Man in Middle Earth?
Sauron likely thought that subverting or destroying Numenor would leave the elves in a weaker position as well. And he wasn't planning to leave Mordor forever; it would be there for him to come back to once Numenor was in a state where he could travel again.
🤣"Numenor's throne belonged to an absolute dick.. " best bit of description in the whole video; love it!
I use to think I knew a lot about middle earth lore but your videos make me feel like a baby in knowledge comparison
this is awesome!
Here’s hoping some list-based content gets you the views you deserve!
another great video which really highlights that although the 2nd age is the least covered age by tolkien he by no means wrote next to nothing about it as has been suggested leading up to the amazon show (an ill founded argument which is already being weaponised to justify the just make it up as you go approach). There is quite a bit of material much of it dense with wonderful information as you so well point out in this video. Thanks again. p.s it was Ossë who raised the island of numenor but no doubt under the behest of his lord Ulmo. Just proving that I always listen carefully 😀
Great video
New sub. I would really like to know if there were any upheavals in Valinor? Besides Numenorean attack.
Mae govannen. I just discovered your channel not long ago and I have been binging on your videos. You have a very friendly approach when presenting your content and your voice is welcoming. Mae carnen, hîr nîn. (Well done, my lord).
3:15 Eärendil was not the first 50/50 half-elf ever to live. The first peredhel (half-elven) to ever lived was Dior, son of Beren and Lúthien, who was born in 470 of the First Age. Eärendil was born in 503 of the First Age.
3:50 Tar-Minyatur is in Quenya, not Sindarin. The names of the kings of Númenor were traditionally in Quenya before Ar-Adûnakhôr became the first king to adopt an Adûnaic title and banned Quenya and Sindarin in Númenor.
7:50 I was hoping to hear about the dancing bears of Númenor. Truly amusing and alarming bit of information regarding the fauna of Númenor.
12:41 I always find that when I firmly place the tip of my tongue on the palate just behind the upper central incisors and push the air out when pronouncing the R, the air would rattle my tongue and thus making that rolled R sound more distinct. In any case, you pronounced the names of the trees beautifully.
17:50 I love that you point out the heroism of Isildur. He really was undoubtedly a great hero of Númenor but unfortunately his failure to destroy the ring has unfairly tainted his image amongst some fans which saddens me because had the ring came into the possession of anyone else, they would also fail to destroy it for it was beyond the strength of any will (including Sauron’s) to destroy it, cast it away, or neglect it. (Letters of JRR Tolkien. Letter #131. To Milton Waldman).
43:06 I have a question about this part. In letter #211 dated October 1958, Professor Tolkien said Sauron had his One Ring in Númenor and that we shouldn’t worry too much on how his incorporeal soul was able to transport the ring back to Mordor. But in The Silmarillion, it was stated twice (refer to references below) in two different chapters that Sauron’s soul departed the sunken island of Númenor to Mordor and he took up *again* his Ring in Barad-dûr, implying that he indeed left his Ring in his tower before he was taken as captive by Ar-Pharazôn. The more puzzling part is that Akallabêth was already written but not yet published by 1958 and yet the letter in which he said Sauron did have the One Ring in Númenor was also dated in 1958. Do you suppose that this was a case of lore contradiction or perhaps Professor Tolkien changed his mind later about how the ring ended up with Sauron in Mordor despite his physical body’s destruction in the sinking of Númenor?
------
References:
“Question 2. This question, & its implications, are answered in the ‘Downfall of Númenor’, which is not yet published, but which I cannot set out now.”
…
“Ar-Pharazôn, as is told in the ‘Downfall’ or Akallabêth, conquered a terrified Sauron’s subjects, not Sauron. Sauron’s personal ‘surrender’ was voluntary and cunning: he got free transport to Númenor! 𝐇𝐞 𝐧𝐚𝐭𝐮𝐫𝐚𝐥𝐥𝐲 𝐡𝐚𝐝 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝐎𝐧𝐞 𝐑𝐢𝐧𝐠, 𝐚𝐧𝐝 𝐬𝐨 𝐯𝐞𝐫𝐲 𝐬𝐨𝐨𝐧 𝐝𝐨𝐦𝐢𝐧𝐚𝐭𝐞𝐝 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝐦𝐢𝐧𝐝𝐬 𝐚𝐧𝐝 𝐰𝐢𝐥𝐥𝐬 𝐨𝐟 𝐦𝐨𝐬𝐭 𝐨𝐟 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝐍ú𝐦𝐞𝐧ó𝐫𝐞𝐚𝐧𝐬.”
- The Letters of J. R. R. Tolkien. Letter #211. To Rhona Beare. 14 October 1958 -
““But Sauron was not of mortal flesh, and though he was robbed now of that shape in which he had wrought so great an evil, so that he could never again appear fair to the eyes of Men, yet his spirit arose out of the deep and passed as a shadow and a black wind over the sea, 𝐚𝐧𝐝 𝐜𝐚𝐦𝐞 𝐛𝐚𝐜𝐤 𝐭𝐨 𝐌𝐢𝐝𝐝𝐥𝐞-𝐞𝐚𝐫𝐭𝐡 𝐚𝐧𝐝 𝐭𝐨 𝐌𝐨𝐫𝐝𝐨𝐫 𝐭𝐡𝐚𝐭 𝐰𝐚𝐬 𝐡𝐢𝐬 𝐡𝐨𝐦𝐞. There 𝐡𝐞 𝐭𝐨𝐨𝐤 𝐮𝐩 𝐚𝐠𝐚𝐢𝐧 𝐡𝐢𝐬 𝐠𝐫𝐞𝐚𝐭 𝐑𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐢𝐧 𝐁𝐚𝐫𝐚𝐝-𝐝û𝐫, 𝐚𝐧𝐝 𝐝𝐰𝐞𝐥𝐭 𝐭𝐡𝐞𝐫𝐞, 𝐝𝐚𝐫𝐤 𝐚𝐧𝐝 𝐬𝐢𝐥𝐞𝐧𝐭, 𝐮𝐧𝐭𝐢𝐥 𝐡𝐞 𝐰𝐫𝐨𝐮𝐠𝐡𝐭 𝐡𝐢𝐦𝐬𝐞𝐥𝐟 𝐚 𝐧𝐞𝐰 𝐠𝐮𝐢𝐬𝐞, 𝐚𝐧 𝐢𝐦𝐚𝐠𝐞 𝐨𝐟 𝐦𝐚𝐥𝐢𝐜𝐞 𝐚𝐧𝐝 𝐡𝐚𝐭𝐫𝐞𝐝 𝐦𝐚𝐝𝐞 𝐯𝐢𝐬𝐢𝐛𝐥𝐞; and the Eye of Sauron the Terrible few could endure.”
- The Silmarillion. Akallabêth. -
“There now he brooded in the dark, until he had wrought for himself a new shape; and it was terrible, for his fair semblance had departed for ever when he was cast into the abyss at the drowning of Númenor. 𝐇𝐞 𝐭𝐨𝐨𝐤 𝐮𝐩 𝐚𝐠𝐚𝐢𝐧 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝐠𝐫𝐞𝐚𝐭 𝐑𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐚𝐧𝐝 𝐜𝐥𝐨𝐭𝐡𝐞𝐝 𝐡𝐢𝐦𝐬𝐞𝐥𝐟 𝐢𝐧 𝐩𝐨𝐰𝐞𝐫; and the malice of the Eye of Sauron few even of the great among Elves and Men could endure.”
- The Silmarillion. Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age. -
Thanks very much for your feedback and your corrections. I'm really glad you enjoy the channel!
You're right that Dior was born before Eärendil, but I wouldn't consider Dior a 50/50 half elf as he was technically 50% mortal Man, 25% Elf, and 25% Maia. Also he was conceived after both his parents were mortal, so I guess it's hard to say exactly how Elven he is. Although he definitely is counted among the half-elven. Of course, technically, Lúthien could be considered the first 50/50 half elf, although in her case the other 50% is not from a Man but a Maia.
You're absolutely right that Tar-Minyatur is Quenya. Thanks for the correction.
Yeah the dancing bears definitely should have got a mention! I think I'll write a pinned comment to add a little info on them.
It's a very good question about whether Sauron left the ring in Barad-dur or took it to Numenor. Usually my instinct is to go with the published material (even though the Silmarillion was published posthumously) over things like letters; but there are a few exceptions, and when later writings contradict earlier ones, I typically lean towards what was written latest in Tolkien's life. It is a bit of a contradiction though, so I guess it can be imagined either way. I do like the idea of Sauron taking off his ring and leaving it in a safe place before surrendering to Ar-Pharazon, but I also like the idea of Sauron using the ring to further his ends in Numenor.
@@tolkienuntangled Thanks for the prompt response. 😊 Regarding the lineage of Dior, I found these passages (please refer to the references below) in the History of Middle-earth, Volume 12, The Peoples of Middle-earth. These passages clearly stated that Dior was the first Peredhil. I realize that we should take the HoMe with a pinch of salt because there are some lore contradictions with Professor Tolkien’s works published during his lifetime but I couldn’t find any contradiction about this bit of lore in any other books. In fact, I found a passage in The Silmarillion which stated that the marriage of Tuor and Idril as the *second* Union of Elves and Men. From that, we can safely surmise that the first Union being of none other than Lúthien and Beren. Furthermore, in The Silmarillion Dior was called Eluchíl or Thingol’s Heir. This heavily implied that he was counted amongst the elves even though he was only 25% Eldar.
Also, you are right that technically Lúthien was also a half-elven, however her other half was not of a mortal being. She was still counted amongst the Eldar even when she already chose her doom to be likewise of Beren’s. Thus it was said that Lúthien was the only elf to properly die and leave the confines of the world.
About the presence or absence of the Ring in Númenor, I suppose either way was possible. I like the idea that Sauron used the Ring to corrupt the Númenóreans but I also like the idea that Sauron didn’t need the Ring to beguile and lead them astray, similar to how he charmed and exploited the Gwaith-i-Mirdain to make the Rings of Power. He was at his peak power during that time, with or without the Ring.
-------
References:
“Dior their son, it is said, spoke both tongues: his father's, and his mother's, the Sindarin of Doriath. For he said: '𝐈 𝐚𝐦 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝐟𝐢𝐫𝐬𝐭 𝐨𝐟 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝐏𝐞𝐫𝐞𝐝𝐢𝐥 (𝐇𝐚𝐥𝐟- 𝐞𝐥𝐯𝐞𝐧),. 𝐛𝐮𝐭 𝐈 𝐚𝐦 𝐚𝐥𝐬𝐨 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝐡𝐞𝐢𝐫 𝐨𝐟 𝐊𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐄𝐥𝐰𝐞, 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝐄𝐥𝐮𝐜𝐡𝐢𝐥.'”
History of Middle-earth. Volume 12. The Peoples of Middle-earth. Part Two. Late Writings. XII: The Problem of Ros -
“Itarilde (Idril) (⁴⁸) daughter of Turgon was the mother of Earendil; but his father was a Man of the Atani, of the House of Hador: Tuor son of Huor.(⁴⁹) 𝐄𝐚𝐫𝐞𝐧𝐝𝐢𝐥 𝐰𝐚𝐬 𝐭𝐡𝐮𝐬 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝐬𝐞𝐜𝐨𝐧𝐝 𝐨𝐟 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝐏𝐞𝐫𝐞𝐥𝐝𝐚𝐫 (𝐇𝐚𝐥𝐟-𝐞𝐥𝐯𝐞𝐧),(⁵⁰) 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝐞𝐥𝐝𝐞𝐫 𝐛𝐞𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐃𝐢𝐨𝐫, 𝐬𝐨𝐧 𝐨𝐟 𝐁𝐞𝐫𝐞𝐧 𝐚𝐧𝐝 𝐋𝐮𝐭𝐡𝐢𝐞𝐧 𝐓𝐢𝐧𝐮𝐯𝐢𝐞𝐥 𝐝𝐚𝐮𝐠𝐡𝐭𝐞𝐫 𝐨𝐟 𝐊𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐄𝐥𝐮 𝐓𝐡𝐢𝐧𝐠𝐨𝐥.”
…
“⁴⁸. [Earlier (p. 346) the name is Itarille; Itarilde appears in the first
three genealogical tables, but the fourth has ltarille'.]
⁴⁹. These names were given in the language of that kindred of the Atani
(Edain) - but adapted to Sindarin - from which in the main the Adunaic or native Atanic language of Numenor was descended. Their explanation is not here attempted.
⁵⁰. [𝐓𝐡𝐞 𝐭𝐞𝐫𝐦 𝐏𝐞𝐫𝐞𝐥𝐝𝐚𝐫 '𝐇𝐚𝐥𝐟-𝐞𝐥𝐝𝐚𝐫' 𝐰𝐚𝐬 𝐨𝐫𝐢𝐠𝐢𝐧𝐚𝐥𝐥𝐲 𝐮𝐬𝐞𝐝 𝐨𝐟 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝐍𝐚𝐧𝐝𝐨𝐫 𝐨𝐫 𝐃𝐚𝐧𝐚𝐬 (𝐬𝐞𝐞 𝐕.𝟐𝟎𝟎, 𝟐𝟏𝟓), 𝐛𝐮𝐭 𝐢𝐭 𝐢𝐬 𝐡𝐞𝐫𝐞 𝐮𝐬𝐞𝐝 𝐚𝐬 𝐢𝐬 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝐒𝐢𝐧𝐝𝐚𝐫𝐢𝐧 𝐟𝐨𝐫𝐦 𝐏𝐞𝐫𝐞𝐝𝐡𝐢𝐥 𝐢𝐧 𝐀𝐩𝐩𝐞𝐧𝐝𝐢𝐱 𝐀 (𝐈, 𝐢) 𝐨𝐟 𝐄𝐥𝐫𝐨𝐧𝐝 𝐚𝐧𝐝 𝐄𝐥𝐫𝐨𝐬; 𝐜𝐟. 𝐢-𝐏𝐡𝐞𝐫𝐞𝐝𝐡𝐢𝐥 𝐩. 𝟐𝟓𝟔, 𝐏𝐞𝐫𝐞𝐝𝐢𝐥 𝐩. 𝟑𝟒𝟖.]”
History of Middle-earth. Volume 12. The Peoples of Middle-earth. Part Two. Late Writings. XI: The Shibboleth of Fëanor -
“Then there was made a great and joyful feast, for Tuor had won the hearts of all that people, save only of Maeglin and his secret following; and 𝐭𝐡𝐮𝐬 𝐭𝐡𝐞𝐫𝐞 𝐜𝐚𝐦𝐞 𝐭𝐨 𝐩𝐚𝐬𝐬 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝐬𝐞𝐜𝐨𝐧𝐝 𝐮𝐧𝐢𝐨𝐧 𝐨𝐟 𝐄𝐥𝐯𝐞𝐬 𝐚𝐧𝐝 𝐌𝐞𝐧.”
The Silmarillion. Quenta Silmarillion. Chapter 23: of Tuor and the Fall of Gondolin -
“The Eldar afterwards called that country Dor Firn-i-Guinar, the Land of the Dead that Live; and 𝐭𝐡𝐞𝐫𝐞 𝐰𝐚𝐬 𝐛𝐨𝐫𝐧 𝐃𝐢𝐨𝐫 𝐀𝐫𝐚𝐧𝐞𝐥 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝐛𝐞𝐚𝐮𝐭𝐢𝐟𝐮𝐥, 𝐰𝐡𝐨 𝐰𝐚𝐬 𝐚𝐟𝐭𝐞𝐫 𝐤𝐧𝐨𝐰𝐧 𝐚𝐬 𝐃𝐢𝐨𝐫 𝐄𝐥𝐮𝐜𝐡í𝐥, 𝐰𝐡𝐢𝐜𝐡 𝐢𝐬 𝐓𝐡𝐢𝐧𝐠𝐨𝐥’𝐬 𝐇𝐞𝐢𝐫. ”
- The Silmarillion. Quenta Silmarillion. Chapter 20: of the Fifth Battle: Nirnaeth Arnoediad -
“𝐒𝐨 𝐢𝐭 𝐰𝐚𝐬 𝐭𝐡𝐚𝐭 𝐚𝐥𝐨𝐧𝐞 𝐨𝐟 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝐄𝐥𝐝𝐚𝐥𝐢ë 𝐬𝐡𝐞 𝐡𝐚𝐬 𝐝𝐢𝐞𝐝 𝐢𝐧𝐝𝐞𝐞𝐝, 𝐚𝐧𝐝 𝐥𝐞𝐟𝐭 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝐰𝐨𝐫𝐥𝐝 𝐥𝐨𝐧𝐠 𝐚𝐠𝐨. ”
The Silmarillion. Quenta Silmarillion. Chapter 19: of Beren and Lúthien -
love that he keeps using artwork of my man Dagoth Ur for Sauron lol
awesome stuff
While InDeepGeek is my favorite channel that covers Tolkien, you have managed to be my favorite exclusive Tolkien covering channel.
Thanks, I'm really glad you enjoy the channel!
I am not a religious person, but the myths and religious texts around the world have fascinated me, especially the allegorical ones. So, learning that Tolkien was not really into allegory was a bit of a disappointment for me. But ...also a surprise! Sooo much of his writing can be taken as allegory! So, I guess that is another aspect of his works that will remain a little confusing for me.
Eg: the whole thing about Numenoreans preferring gold and silver metals over gold and silver trees.
About the allegory thing, Tolkien wrote in the preface to one edition of Lord of the Rings that he didn't like allegory but did like applicability. In other words, he made his stories as stories about another world which had things in common with our world and therefore could be learned from, rather than making them about our world but seen through the lens of a different one. Which is still kind of confusing.
After watching a few of your videos, I'm inspired to read all the books again. It's been too long since and I've seen the movies so much that they have supplanted my memories. The stories in the books are so much richer.
But I've got to ask about your pronunciations. I seem to be hearing an extra syllable in many names. I don't know if it's just my ear, or because you are speaking slowly. In any case, I'm no expert, so I thought I'd ask. Here are some examples:
Elrond/Elros. To me these are 2 syllables. But I'm hearing el-le-rond or el-eh-ros, or something like that.
Arnor. Again 2 syllables. But I'm hearing Ar-eh-nor.
Uinen. This could be 2 or 3 syllables. But I'm hearing oo-ee-eh-nen.
I try to split the word based on its meaning. For example Arnor means king land, so it should be pronounced Ar nor, not Arn or. Same with Elrond which means star dome. El-rond. Although to be fair I may sometimes over do it.
@@tolkienuntangled Thanks. So just some embellishment, which does sound cool, especially when speaking slowly.
@@rogerwilcojr thanks!
It's really difficult to grasp how a single man could create an entire world history down to the smallest detail of every single thing
I make it a point to comment on each of your videos but I had a massive migraine yesterday and I neglected this beautiful comment section. I gotta say if I could chose one race in Middle Earth besides elves I would chose to be a Numenorian. The name alone makes you sound wise and powerful. Also who wouldn’t want to watch bears dance…. P.S. My boyfriend can’t roll his R’s either, his Spanish class last semester was entertaining to listen to. love your videos Rainbow Dave!
Thanks so much, I hope you're feeling better! It's nice to know I'm not the only one who can't roll my Rs.
Hey so I literally just discovered this channel and I gotta say it’s pretty great. Out of curiosity I was wondering if any of you had a good list of books for me to read outside the main 4
Welcome, I'm really glad you enjoy the channel! Beyond LOTR, The Hobbit, The Silmarillion, and the Unfinished Tales, I'd recommend the Children of Hurin (which is basically an extended version of the Turin Turambar chapter), the Fall of Gondolin (which is a super old writing but it gives details on things Tolkien never updated or returned to), and then the three final books in the History of Middle-earth: Morgoth's Ring, The War for the Jewels, and The People's of Middle-earth.
@@tolkienuntangled I just ordered the silmarillion! And I have the hobbit and the main rings trilogy! Is there a specific book you would recommend reading first?
If I could travel to any place and time in Middle Earth's history, I would go to Númenor in the Second Age and try to prevent its corruption. A Númenor that never rebels against the Valar and is never destroyed could have stopped Sauron in its tracks.
Even before Sauron was taken to Numenor, they had already started to envy Elven immortality and being unable to sail west.
They were doomed whether Sauron got involved or not.
@@concept5631 I don't think they would have been crazy enough to attack Valinor without Sauron getting involved.
That face when you piss God off so badly He changes what was a flat world into a round one
Great video, like always and I only have a question: did Sauron take the One Ring to Númenor? I recall in the Silmarillion that He didn't but I don't know if Tolkien said otherwise in a letter or something like that. Thanks.
This is a very good question. In the Silmarillion we're told (twice) that Sauron took up his ring again when he returned to Barad-dur, which implies he left it in Mordor when he went off to Numenor, but in one of Tolkien's letters, he wrote that Sauron took the One Ring with him to Numenor. I guess it's one of those things that readers get to decide for themselves.
@@tolkienuntangled I like the idea he left the Ring behind in Barad-dur more. First it solves the question how could the incorporate spirit of Sauron transport the Ring over stormy sea - didnt need to - end second corresponds better with what happened to Sauron during the last moments of the Fall: if I recall correctly, Sauron was in the end caught by surprise as he was laughing over the fate of Númenor in the temple of Melkor, and he was to follow the island down to abyss, so he had no other choice but to give up his actuall body and his spirit was able to escape, however he payed the price, he lost his ability to transfer into his quasi-elven form, in which he appeared friendly, charming, wise etc., forever. So when his spirit made it home to Mordor, he could rise again in his villains body-form, maybe even with the help of the Ring and its power. And my favourite theory is that his use of the Ring to gain a body again (and probably imposibility to do so without the Ring) was the reason why Isildurs biggest Chop had such a devastating effect on Sauron, who was far more powerfull then Isildur and thus should have been able to fight on with the other hand and maybe even win with sorcery, but he simply could not without the Ring... Taken this one step further and we have similar situation that the final destruction of the Ring did destroy Sauron entirely.
@@sargeras7518 I have often thought it would be fit if Souron did not die, but with the vst majority of his power destroyed with the ring, he became a Gollum-like creature gnawing over his lost life in the dark deeps of a mountain. Precious, my precious, gone forever it is! Sublime!
When I was younger, I often dreamed I should care for any little beeing. Sometimes it was a baby, sometimes a little bird or cat or whatever. And it's always gone terribly wrong. Either I forgot to feed it or I accidently crushed it...
I think I was affraid that I might be not good enough to care for a child. I realy wondered what would happen with that dream when I would become pregnant. I was affraid that my doubts could grow and I would suffer real anxiety.
However, I became pregnant and the dream disappeared. I never dreamed anything like that again. It was, like I finely knew with all my soul that I am able to care for this little life. This question was never asked again. Now we have our third baby. 💞
A non-Friday video! Amazing surprise at the end of an exhausting day 🌈
36:54 Sauron’s finest moment
41:05 The (corrupt) quest for immortality leads into Atlantëa
42:34 … and the world was shaken: I love how the dream of the Great Wave and the Echoes of Atlantis plagued Tolkien until he had written down his own version - I think it is the greatest story ever told for a reason: the cataclysm happened; death and resurrection of civilization was a real thing: not only for Tolkien and Asimov (“Foundation”) in Fantasy and Science-Fiction, but in the real world: and the people like Graham Hancock and Randall Carlson (Younger Dryas impact hypothesis) tell a somewhat believable story about how it could have happened. And Ben Davidson over at Suspicious Observers is sure it will happen again (- with a changed focus: the Sun as the main driver: Micro-Nova and breakdown of the geomagnetic field over comet impacts; and Anthony Perrat’s research into petroglyphs (and the Plasmauniverse) supports this branch of catastrophism. Watch JRE #1124 with Robert Schoch - he does a good retelling and representation of Perrat’s findings)).
Another Echo of the Cataclysm in the Arts: The Great Wave by Hokusai (and it reverberated on to Van Gogh’s Starry Night, which in my mind almost leads back to Perrat’s petroglyphs with a bit of fantasy: the great wave is brought on by tumult in the skies: the proposed mechanism is of course an abrupt change in the tilt of the earths axis - might want to watch what Suspicious Observers have to say about the Chan Thomas story).
But now here is Hokusai’s Great Wave for you… (- and it’s style and look also has echoes in pop culture: compare the unicorns in the waves in The Last Unicorn, and then the drowning of the Nazgûl in Peter Jackson’s The Fellowship of the Ring: that style goes back to The Great Wave for sure). ua-cam.com/video/IBcB_dYtGUg/v-deo.html
33:58 Minor correction, if you allow - the Faithful's flottila consisted of 9, not 7 ships
WOW !!!!!
That Palpetine was spot on
I also love trees and things that smell good x
Shaq as Elendil? Yes please!!!
Great video as always! I’m just a bit confused on one area, wasn’t all numenorean kings given the choice to lay down their lives? I remember in the akallabeth that there was one numenorean king, during the downfall, that tried to not relinquish his life and prolonged it for twenty more years, driving him mad. I thought that meant that all kings could lay down their lives but perhaps I’m wrong.
They were in the beginning, but as you say, over time they began to resist the Gift of Death, and Numenorean lifespans began to wane. Ironically, Pharazon actually got his wish of immortality, as he was trapped within the caves of forgotten after his failed invasion of Valinor, and there he remained forever unable to die but unable to leave.
Watching this video after watching the new LOTR ROP series is so upsetting. ROP could have been so good. I don’t understand how they messed it up so badly.
Rings of Power has mutilated and corrupted the Numenoreans, and the lore in general, beyond recognition. Sauron truly had the last laugh.
I too Rainbow Dave share your shame of the Un-Rolled R's. It tasks me daily. ✌
Númenor is my favorite place in the legendarium. Thanks.
Is the picture at 40:53 ASoIaF art?
The flood as punishment by the gods is maybe the oldest idé we still nurture, interesting to see it as your nr. 1 ;)
I thoroughly enjoy these vids they help feed my nerdy nature to know all these obscure little facts of LOTR over its ages. I couldn't help but to fall out laughing over the fact that Ar-Pharazon was referred to as "an absolute dick"!! Here I am hanging on to every word listening to all the details and I heard that outta nowhere and I couldn't stop laughing!! I'm not one to disagree though and I think that's another reason I enjoy these vids, the splash of personal commentary here and there. 😄
Wait, youve said that its possible for a farsighted numenorian to see to the undying lands. But the numenorians were also told they cant sail so far west that their own shore cannot be seen. And since this is a flat plane at this point shouldnt that mean they could sail to the undying lands since they'll be able to see a part of their land, even if they make it all the way to Tol Eressëa? Can someone explain this? Am I missing something?
Now we know where George got his black stone from.