Mechwarrior 5 Mod - Volumetric Re-Scale
Вставка
- Опубліковано 6 кві 2020
- I take a look at the Mechwarrior 5 Mercenaries mod created by NavidA1, the 'Volumetric Re-Scale', that re-scales all mechs & vehicles!
Volumetric Re-scale Mod: www.nexusmods.com/mechwarrior...
3D Hud: www.nexusmods.com/mechwarrior...
Twitch: / ngngtv
Subscribe: / ngngtv
Merchandise: merch.streamelements.com/ngngtv
Discord: / discord
Shop Amazon: amzn.to/2UQeeWG
Patreon: / nogutsnogalaxy
Twitter: / nogutsnogalaxy
Facebook: / nogutsnogalaxypodcast - Ігри
The problem isn't the mech size IMO, its the assets all around the world and how it feels like you are walking around in a diorama instead of a real world scaled to humans with a giant mech walking around. The resize mod doesn't really address that. You have grass taller than the truck you demoed earlier in the video, flowers and bushes taller than the truck. Same with textures, they are scaled for the view of you in the mech above, not for humans, so again you get that diorama result. The closest mech games have come to getting this right is something like Titanfall where the map is scaled and sized for human players, but also has giant mechs walking around. Good example of how to get scale right.
Taken from Sarna. "A BattleMech (often abbreviated 'Mech, although that could technically also refer to IndustrialMechs) is an armored combat vehicle of roughly humanoid shape, standing 8 to 14 meters tall and typically massing from 20 to 100 tons." The scale of mechs with Navid's mod is about how I always pictured mechs.
To me it feels like they should be ~5% bigger. Like assaults don’t have a large amount of overhead, but still a comfortable amount. Like the Atlas and Annihilator being able to just about see over base walls.
I played the table top game in the way back. I had a blueprint of the Battle Master hanging on my bedroom wall. The Battle Master is an 85 ton assault mech. Large, but not the biggest.
The blueprint included a pilot standing next to it for scale. Other images in source books like "3025 Technical Readout," included other images that lent a sense of scale.
Btw, the reference to Gundam is a bit unfair. Gundam is just about perfectly sized to represent large battlemechs (indeed, in the original timeline, the last ova included newer "suits" which were significantly smaller.
I am dissappointed by the up-sizing in the computer games. The turn based Battlemechs game also shows very large machines.
Anyway, I'm starting to ramble. I think this mod is a step in the right direction, but I think it goes a bit too far for larger mechs. However, I think there should be a bigger difference between them. A 20 ton light mech should be considerably smaller than a 100 ton assault mech. Anyway, I hope this link works, this is the blueprint I had on my wall, a gazillion years ago:
images.app.goo.gl/2V3a4Y3wctDavj9LA
Oh, just found another good scale comparison image. I think it's about right:
images.app.goo.gl/RVNZ9rQeCuBSb1yy9
I thought atlas was 15m tall, and the Annihilator being the tallest.
'Mechs are supposed to be looking in through second story windows, not third or fourth.
@@jodason8331 The Banshee is the tallest I think, meant to be about 16-18m tall
Seems like I should just wait until NavidA1 finishes making MW5 2.0 then play the game again >_<
Thanks for making these mod spotlights
Funny but true...
This exactly how I feel, also hopefully by then it will be on Steam
I agree. Navid is doing a wonderfull job with the HUD allready. Now this scale mod real looks good.
Would very much like to see you playing mech games again Kanajashi
I don't know about you guys, but that is pretty much what I was hoping for when MW5 was released. To get a decent vanilla game (and it was actually A LOT of fun for me, mostly due to COOPing option), that was promised to be HIGHLY moddable and that, with hard work of dedicated and skilled modders like Navid, will turn into magnificent piece of fun :)
A lot of people don't realize, heavy and assault mechs are only supposed to be as tall as fighter jets are long.
Another funny thing is Gundam has the same problem. Gundams are canonically roughly the same size as battlemechs, but they never have consistent scale from scene to scene, so sometimes they're randomly twice as big as they should be.
Sad thing all the mods like this are broken.
@@yusriyahbagheri8843 Think YAML's rescale still works.
Gundam are cannonicaly 16 to 20 meters tall based on which series they belong to where Sarna says Battlemechs are at most 14 meters Gundams are taller and by a lot
Isnt a train car typically 100 tonnes? So in theory... A mech that is 100 tonnes would at best be the size of a train car. What is funny is that when you think of the weight of the internals and whatnot; assault mechs really aren't all that big. 🤔
Edit: scratch all that. An assault mech is just barely 1.5 abrams tanks. And abrams weighs 75 tonnes. So a Marauder should be that size roughly.
...Dang. They really arent as big as they suggest in the art.
@@kontankarite Part of the problem is that the original stuff that material came from was done by people who very, very clearly didn't give a damn about realism in military equipment.
If they did, LRMs wouldn't have shorter ranges than real shoulder mounted RPGs that were in circulation in the 1980s, for example. Or AC weapons being objectively worse than real life tank guns. Or Ferrous Fibrous armor being worse than real RHA.
You had a bunch of guys that just subjectively picked numbers they felt looked cool, and other authors over time have rolled with that. Which, to be fair, given that you're talking about bipedal war machines, completely makes sense, as any realistic tech would never choose that shape as a proper war machine w/o something being introduced that just doesn't exist IRL.
Now the walls on the bases actually look like they are there for a reason other than to be stepped on. They don't don't look like the waist high cover from cover shooters.
By adjusting the scale of the mechs, Mechwarrior now looks like the combined-arms game that it represents: a game where, while mechs are intimidating, they're not battlefield infallible, and where a group of intelligent and brave tank drivers or VTOL pilots can take them on and eek out a victory.
This has the bonus effect of fixing the sense of speed. Somehow Mechwarrior games manage to make 64km/h feel slow, but now you get to see just how freakishly fast battlemechs are for their size.
I love this mod, the mechs, the world, everything looks so much better.
Huh. My brain kept telling me "this looks stupid, that Atlas is too small." Until you moved into the base, and then it clicked and my perspective finally readjusted. This really is a lot better. Thanks for the video. After beating the campaign twice, and having my "Career Mode" run broken during PGI's mod update, I'm going to give it a few more weeks and then hop back in. I'll definitely be using this mod as well, should bring a fresh experience back.
Glad you watched it till that part, enjoy the mod!
There is no debate to be had: the PGI 'Mechs have always been way WAY too big. In canon, they've always been between 10-15 meters. Realistically, (well, "realistically") metal and machinery is so heavy that a 19 meter 'Mech just seems cartoonishly light in PGI's world. And gameplay-wise, it has always made 'Mechs feel very slow. 60 kph is like rocketing along the ground in a smaller machine, but in MWO, even 100 kph doesn't feel very impressive. PGI messed up and just wanted bigger cause bigger must equal better, but it's always felt wrong.
This looks great, I can't wait to install it.
I guess I'm going to download the Volumetric Rescale this afternoon. This makes the games feel way more like Battletech over Pacific Rim. I already got the 3D Hud and it is absolutely amazing. I feel almost like I have a real neurohelmet on displaying my HUD.
Navid is doing MechGod's work. This is seriously making me want to buy the game... Like some people I want to get it on Steam. But also waiting to see more meaty content. Or at least flesh out the career mode.
If you do get the game, there is a recent mod which improves the AI. I don't care who you are but if you get the game, you need to get that mod, It makes the game much more fun and challenging 7fold.
waiting for steam myself, but watching this I'm almost caving in
@@TimberWulfIsHere Yeah, I caved, ended up getting it when it was on sale plus an additional discount for Epic. So i got the game for $24. I started without the mods and got bored fast. Then I modded the AI and the mechlab. It's night and day. However it still gets pretty repetitive. We really need a mission editor to change things up.
Rawsilver agreed, especially when you max out everything but the reloaded mod adds quite a bit of replay value. We need more mission types and longer, more rewarding types with the inclusion of mech repair bays and such. I like the new dlc game mode as it does some of that but like, how about defend/ destroy base game modes or something. Add some complexity. Hence a mission editor would be good, although it is possible to create one with the game mod maker.
There's old Battletech art that essentially portrays the 50 ton Shadow Hawk as having roughly the same volume as a main battle tank, which in real life tend to weigh about 60 tons being made from contemporary steel and composite armor. I always thought that this was the best benchmark to use for scaling BT battlemechs (and really giant robots in general) in a logical way that respects the laws of physics as much as is reasonably possible for this kind of thing. Applying the square-cube law using an MBT-sized Shadow Hawk as a baseline would mean the 100-ton Atlas wouldn't actually be that much physically taller; the portrayal in this mod seems to be about as good as you're reasonably going to get for a video game.
This is the MechWarrior game I want to play! It always bugged me how big the mechs were in MWO and this returns them a more proper size. I can actually imagine these cockpits being hot and cramped! Get out the cooling vests and skimpy shorts!
Back in the days, I am pretty sure that mechs were described as being up to 10 meters (30 feet) tall.
Then, over time, they somehow grew and grew and grew. I never understood that.
I mean, suspension of disbelieve is hard enough with 10m tall walking tanks (you know, the old "the bigger they are, the easier they are to nuke from orbit" thingy) but 15 to 20m? You gotta be kidding me!
I guess, this is a very long-winded way of saying: This looks frigging awesome! :)
I remember reading somewhere (might be the technical readout that I have) that says the Thor is the tallest 'mech on the battlefield by a hair and a half, because of that shoulder-mounted missile rack.
If you derive from a ton of SRM ammo, each missile is, like, 20 pounds. Grab a dumb bell, fill it with explosives and fuel.
Numbers in Battletech have always been weird. Like, if you use the actual MWO scale of an Atlas, the thing's volume is so greater that at 100 tons, it would actually float in water.
@@rangerwickett Another point in favor of downsizing the 'mechs, as they're definitely supposed to be able to submerge in lakes and rivers, using them for cooling and concealment, at greatly reduced mobility. Last thing we need are Jesus 'mechs walking on water. :)
This is a good mod. In reality, a lot of the trees we're looking at in this video would probably average about 50-plus feet high, so to have the atlas, the tallest mech, only be about 2/3rds the height of the pine trees is much more accurate.
I believe rules wise it's 12m, as a single height level in Battletech is 6m and mechs are said to occupy 2 height levels with their waste being at the intersection of the two, page 31 Total Warfare.
Remember the mechwarrior 4 vengeance trailer when the guy was using a lift to get inside his vulture mech? That would’ve been a great addition to really give you a sense of scale and make you understand just how big these things are even with the mod added.
It is the year 2022, and the 3D hud still hasn't been updated. Oh how I miss it. 😢
THANK YOU! To both NavidA1 and you at NGNG for finally highlighting this issue. Honestly, this is one thing that has always bothered me since MechWarrior Online. The disparity between the size of 'mechs relative to the environment has always been irritating to me. I try not to think about it when playing, but it always -- ALWAYS -- comes back to me one way or another as I'm playing. In MWO, it was the sheer tiny-ness of the cars, streets, and stoplights that I stomp on when heading to a fight. In MW5, it's when I walk into buildings to destroy them and seeing how each internal building floor only seemed to be 5 feet instead of 10 to 15 feet average building floor height.
As you said, I get that 'mechs are supposed to be big. However, they don't have to be upscaled to get that effect. The same can be done by adjusting camera depth of field and field of vision. I really hope PGH can incorporate these changes going forward, especially for the MW5 story sequel.
PGH, hire NavidA1 already.
One frame of reference I like to use is the Boeing 747, which everyone is familiar with, and everyone can picture its (agreeably large) size. A fully loaded 747 weighs 400 tons. 4 times as much as an Atlas or Annihilator. The proportions are different, yes, the technology is supposed to be "more futuristic", sure. Reactors are typically extremely heavy, though, despite improvements made to the skeleton. Since you mention tanks: M1 Abrams are around 60 tons.
Thank you for the ground-pounder perspective. That helps with my 747 analogy, because if you've ever stood near one at ground level, you can tell that that Atlas is STILL taller than the fuselage (though not taller than the Vertical Stab) with your mod. So when are we getting the same mods in MWO? :D
Okay, now that you're smaller, and just in general, I feel like you shouldn't be able to just walk through a reinforced concrete wall theoretically defending a military installation, even in an Atlas. Kerensky piloted an Orion in the Amaris Civil War, and needed his friend in an Atlas to kick in the door for him. JUST the DOOR, implying the walls are even stronger, and not something a 'mech can just plow through without a second thought. And buildings in cities could be used for cover by 'mechs walking inside them (trying to be careful not to cause them to collapse inward on them), so that's a point for size and durability of the environment with respect to Battlemechs.
eh, better to compare to a ww2 maus (from what i read that was a 100ton tank). a Boeing is too "spacious" to properly compare to battlemechs. the square cube law means that even a slightly larger mech then a "light" would have triple if not quadruple the weight
wow this is an awesome mod i wish mwo would have done this when they did the rescale cant wait to see this on twitch
Just look at MechWarrior 2, when the mech pulls into or out of the bay at HQ in the training missions. About 4-stories tall, 32ft for the Mad Cat / Timber Wolf.
In the Grey death saga books there is a descrption of a Stinger and a Wasp being used bye rioters. It was writtin that in these machines the shoulders and heads of the pilots were the only thing in the cockpit. Barely bigger than power armour
thats interesting. maybe they were saying the head and shoulders were in the actual "head" of the stinger, but the cockpit is much more in the upper torsor of the mech (heavy gear and votoms have mechs like this,where the piots head is in the "head" of the mech). unless of course they said they were "Barely bigger than power armour", then that just sounds impossible,because the closest battlemech to the size of "battlearmor" were the "protomechs", though i would say the wasp/stinger are just a little bit taller then protomechs.
@@jaromswenson7541 That'd be more like it. Those books were written before ProtoMechs were a thing so everything needed to be scaled up ever so slightly.
The graphics and lighting actually look better now, instead of appearing to be outdated.
TBO I always felt the graphics were fine, you may be noticing DLSS, they patched that in recently. Also all my graphics are cranked up, except for depth of field, I hate that crap!
If you are planning to run Navid's MW5 Mercs Reloaded, the volumetric rescale mod is already included along with several others: www.nexusmods.com/mechwarrior5mercenaries/mods/161
Always had the thought "How THAT can weight only 100 tons? There's 250 at least"
Also remembering art of Battletech 2018 with Griffin with enormous scale
Thank you for the mod highlight, looks solid and I really like his HUD mods. First time I questioned MW5 scaling was when I noticed how tall I was in was compares to the HPG arrays. For as massive a facility as they are supposed to be, why in a medium mech, a centurion if I recall, was I standing almost half the array height?
Now if a mod was made to correct the BS infinite tank spawning on your six....that would be amazing. I'm tired of clearing a base, It's all dead and gone yet somehow 4 new fresh tanks deploy from the F'ing rubble?!?
Sigh... right... PGI....
All I can say is WOW! Thanks for showcasing this!
This is build into Navid's 'Reloaded mod' so you don't have to have two instances of it!
The problem is the size of the cockpit window. It's what gives you the sense of scale.
If the Atlas is really that small, then how the hell is the window so big? The only mech that i find realistic relative to it's cockpit view is the Shadowhawk or the Griffin. It's big from the inside,big from the outside. The Atlas....big from the inside...tiny from the outside. See what i mean?
Judging by the size of the cockpit, players get the sense that the Atlas should be twice as big if not even bigger. If the window was twice as small, then small from the outside, small from the inside. Problem solved.
The weight is not important. There are tall cars and short cars, but in the end two of them might weigh about the same.
This can be solved with proper POV changes. i think MW games usually makes the player almost lick the window, when in reality it should be seeing the panel all the time. With this little change even the feeling of being cramped inside a giant mech becomes possible
You're right. In old artwork a pilot takes up the whole head of an Atlas, while the PGI version has you just sit in the eye. It's kinda insane.
Mad respects Navid! This is gorgeous!
Man now I want to see a vr mod for this game eventually. Being able to ride in these mechs with a realistic scale and being able to feely move around in the cockpit would really sell the game for me.
I’ve always been a mech warrior fan and this makes the scale feel just right
This is awesome man. I gotta say, your content lately has been on point.
I feel like mechs in this universe have not been correctly represented in any of the games, but this mod is a great step. Judging from a lot of the lore I've been looking into, it seems the mechs behaved much more like Titans from Titanfall. They're supposed to be better than tanks because they are able to mimic human movement (climbing, jumping, and hand combat) and traverse crazy environments but be tougher. Instead we have these giant mechs that are only as capable as a tank. I know it is a super ambitious idea to have these elements in a game made by developers with low manpower and funding but a guy can dream of doing this kind of stuff in Battletech/Mechwarrior.
Thanks!
i agree 100%. this is why i liked the "protomech" concept so much, its very close to titanfall in size and responses.
in the lore the battlemechs could do a whole lot more then walk and shoot. would be cool if we could crouch and even melee with these mechs. this would make combat very interesting with mechs crouching and popping out to shoot form cover and we get to see mechs like the hatchetman and kodiak actually use their massive melee wpns to smack a bish.
maybe make light mechs just slightly taller then titanfall titans and go from there,and maybe we can get protomechs (titanfall sized,but with better designs then the original goof troop designs). then add battlearmor and we can have some realy cool looking armored warfare.
tanks will actually be threats, and you would see the size progression of mechs and the advancements of miniaturization of mech technology (battle armor and protomechs). but hopeing for protomechs and smaller mechs in general is a pipdream becasue many battletech fans like the "super giant mechs and they conquer everything on the battlefield, no i wont accept that my atlas can be outclassed by a tank reeeeee".
@@jaromswenson7541 for your last point, those are the kinds of people who shudder to think of an AC/20 Urbie putting their precious Atlas on its ass. To me, that'll *always* be hilarious.
@@KaiHarper89 gotta love the humble urbie. an assault mech among lights.
Did the same thing in HBS Battletech. Good stuff!!!
I agree the mechs need to be scaled down, but that appears too small
I agree the cockpit should hold a regular person.
Thank you so much for the vid.
2-3 stories tall, that's what they were meant to be. largest mech is 14 meters which would be a meter taller than 3 stories, smallest 8, which is just shy of 2. just take a look at the buildings around you. 2-3 stories is as tall as the mechs are supposed to be. I think only the lights in mwo were correct as far as I can remember.
This is the sort of project that makes me happy to see. I know this video is a bit older at this point, but I have always felt like the modern mechwarrior scale representation was way off. Disregarding fantasy levels of material sciences that exist in mechwarrior lore, the idea of a vehicle that is 20 stories tall weighing only 80 tons is indescribably hard to explain. These things are often shown overshadowing small buildings and fortifications, where realistically they are just super-science bi-pedal tanks.
It's really cool to see a project that tries to dial back the scale to a more reasonable and sensible level in the game, as I feel it makes the environment more impactful and immersive. MW5 has a lot of problems, the AI being a really touchy subject for a lot of players, but he has so much potential to be cool with the efforts of the modding community.
Ohhh yeah More in line with actual BattleTech canon as well.
Please tell me what mod you used for the new 'Reactor Online' e.t.c. spheel ( 8:05 )
It doesn't sound standard and reminds me of the good ol' days of MW2. I need this in my lfie!
For a quicky, wolfmech hero is "6 times" Phelan Kell's height, coming out to 9.5ish meters. The tallest mech pre-3060 is 14.4 meters tall (Executioner). Annihilator is 12.8 meters tall and Atlas is 13.6 meters tall (all BT stated heights, now fun fact: 13.6 meters is the height of the Hunchback in mw5). The average medium/heavy mech is between 10 and 12 meters tall. The Leopard dropship's clearance is 14 meters in the artwork from jumpships and dropships, meanwhile in mw5, the door clearance is simply insane. I think Navid's scale mod will work nicely with what I'm working on, but I need stuff in that DLC to continue.
Nice and it makes sense. the Maus was 130tons so it didn't make sense a 100ton atlas was the size of 10 of them. Not quite my head cannon sweet spot but close enough.
The Atlas is canonically the tallest of the 3025 era ‘Mechs at 18m tall.
And the average person is closer to 1.75m than 2m, so the Atlas was scaled correctly. This re-scale takes the Atlas down to about the size of a Commando.
The Atlas is obscured by 12m tall trees in tabletop and old art has the pilot taking up the entire head. The "18m tall" thing is out of older MechWarrior games which were just as bad with scale.
Think ill restart my original playthrough with some mods. :). Nice job phil
That does look really cool.
09:18 what mod are you using to control the camera like that? Time to start my screen shot collection of Mech and action shots.
look im new, do ijust cut and paste the pak file into the one that says mods in my mw5m folder?
I couldn't put my finger on what was off about this game. It did seem really disconnected, like I was walking around on a tabletop game! Much, much better!
Dude! Thank you for making this. This problem was huge for me and one of the main reasons i quit playing the game. Hell an Abrams tank weighs 60 tons. I get the material in the future should weigh less and all but the mechs in the game were wayyy too big
That Atlas hip wiggle. Thicc boi
Yup I like that mod sizing. Like an atlas ..just because it’s 100 tons, doesn’t means all the weight is from height ,but the mass. It makes more sense.
I just got the game and am 100 hours in. I knew something felt off, even though I enjoy this game very much. I think one major immersion breaker was when I downloaded the Infantry mod. Like, holy cow you can fit 20 people in one Atlas toe, this is not what I remember it looking like in MW3 and MW4. I feel like a bloody Evangelion unit. Even though the video is old by this point, thank you for sharing. Instant download.
Oh no. Its dead :C
New to MW5. Thank you for the video, I'll have to add this to my mod list. Any other mods you'd recommend?
OH THANK YOU YES. What always triggered me the most was the reference to weight. Weight is pretty much THE reference unit in MW games and there's no way of not seeing it. The biggest baddest assault mechs are one hundred tons of armored fighting machine - including ammo, propulsion, actuators etc. That's one hundred, not ten thousand, or in other words, 30-40% more than a fully loaded MBT. There's just no way battlemechs could be the size they are in MWO; even with the most sci-fi esque materials I can imagine, that's just too far off to be believable.
Another useful reference is AC caliber. If I'm not mistaken, a really big one, like a 10 or a 20 is in the range of 120/150 mm, maybe a bit more depending on the manufacturer, but surely much closer to a tank gun than a naval gun. This mod makes a lot of sense indeed... and don't forget the one that fixes projectile velocities !
yeah, once i realized the abrams mbt is 60tons, a 60 ton mech is way more massive for no good reason. to get that tonage and weight as presented by pgi the material would almost have to be lighter then air to make sense.
To be fair, even with the old lore scaling, the mechs are way too light. WAY too light.
@@ASNS117Zero if we wanted realistic weights to hieght, then light mechs would be much closer to titanfall titans, so about 20ft tall.
and because the square cube law exist then the heavier mechs actually wont be much more taller then the light, since just being slightly bigger would dramatically increase weight...i guess they would only look bulkier then the light mech.
@@jaromswenson7541 I mean, if we're going hard realism, you just wouldn't build battlemechs, it's not an effective weapons system. As long as you can fire guided weapons from over the horizon that are a fraction of the cost of the ponderously large and expensive war machine you're trying to build that can likely cripple or outright destroy said war machine in a single shot, there's no reason to ever build it. In-universe, it's still kind of a head scratcher to me why one of the great houses didn't just invest heavily in long range air superiority and precision orbital weaponry to obsolete battlemechs. Or in the very least, why the people who wrote the lore didn't include a reason why the great houses didn't do that.
@@ASNS117Zero well, in universe the battlemechs are kinda an ultimate all terrain weapons platform that can stand its ground. its the same reason we still use tanks today despite them being outclassed by missiles and fighter jets. you can blow up the enemies visible assets from afar as much as you want but at the end of the day if you want to hold ground your gonna need armored firepower that can hold ground. also, in the setting we know there are anti missle systems that seem to be very effective, at least effective enough that the majority of missiles in the setting need to be cheap and shot in large waves just to overcome the defense systems.
now the obvious next question is why not build more tranks instead of more battlemechs. in lore it seems the only logical reason (im not counting the weird logic that somehow mechs are harder to kill) battlemechs are preferred over tanks is because they are much better at handling terrain then tanks. but in reality the sheer canonical size of battlemechs is too much and would be easy targets for tank formations.
the solution is simple and its the same suggestion i had before, make them smaller as they would logically be based on their weight. at a much smaller size they can better fit into dense cover terrain (especially forests and cities) as they dont have such a wide boxy profile as the tank does, they can better navigate between trees/large boulders/and buildings. their taller profiles (in the 20-20ft range) being negated by being able to hide behind cover of equivalent height (even crouch and lay down if the situation calls for it). now does this make mechs better then tanks? only at certain battlefield roles. with these changes you'll see battlemechs being deployed to conquer the tight confines of urban combat and other such environments, while tanks are still used as open ground combat.
This seems like a good addition. I'd definitely use this mod...at least once it comes to steam. Now all we need is like you said, infantry, heck I'd even like battle armor and the ability to leave your suit to recon in them.
And wait, Ctrl shift v lets you exit the cockpit entirely? Thats awesome, didnt know that at all.
Great Job!! Relative small changes makes a lot in this game (the hud, the scale, the zoom), so I think this game still have a lot of potential . MW5 engine is far better tan MWO, we can dream… Thanks for the video!
HI iam new to this game, can you list me the mods your using on this video 3rd person and the UI thanks
Probably no one will ever read this, cuz at the time I am writing it this is a 4-year-old video but wow, I am glad I am not the only one who was bothered by the scale. Mechs are supposed to be 12-18 meters, they are big, but not Pacific Rim big. Large trees are 50 meters, mechs are supposed to be bipedal tanks, not bipedal aircraft carriers... For me the scale hurts my immersion. This is perfect, well, ok, not perfect, the relative scale of the mechs could use a little work, but I definitely think the Shadow Hawk is a little big compared to the Atlas, but nitpicking aside this is Amazing, a massive improvement on the base games scale.
Yeah scale has a big impact just on gameplay, being able to target locations easy makes certain mechs just take way more damage.
God this scale looks so cool!
Coming from the turn based Battletech game, this was the scale in that game.
IRL the IS-3 heavy tank for example is like half the height of the M48 medium tank. Heavier shouldn't always mean taller.
Not scale related, but since you fired the LRMs on the Atlas: I wonder if there'll be an Atlas LRM mod. The Atlas-D (and almost every other version of the Atlas) is supposed to fire the LRM 20 in four groups of 5 from the hip. The SRM 6 was in the upper torso hardpoint. The AS7-K is the only one that expanded the LRM 20 to fire through 20 tubes. I thought that was something PGI could and should have done to make the different Atlases distinct, instead of every single one firing two groups of 10, so I'd enjoy a mod that corrects that.
IIRC that is a carry over from MW:O where correct tubing killed a few chassies. 5 missile volleys did far worse against ams then a 20 missile cluster a lot of the time. Now ofc in this game that would not matter as much.
@@tawesssoabbox But that's what would give the -K model it's "special" feel. It only has a single missile hardpoint, which I'm sure goes mostly unused, but if that single missile hardpoint was the only one on an Atlas that could fire a full salvo, instead of a volley-fire effect, then it would have its purpose, and its "feel". It'd also be nice to have the SRM 6 rack mounted higher. :)
Apart from that, AMS on the MWO battlefield is WAY more common than it ever was on Table Top, from what I can gather, looking at builds. I didn't realize it until a few weeks ago, too, but TT AMS was only supposed to be a self-defense weapon. It wasn't supposed to fire on anything aimed at allies. But then MWO would have a bitch of a time programming it to figure out dead-fire missiles, then, wouldn't they? :)
Looks great to me, and I do agree about the scale etc. Much better looking sizes in my opinion.
Damn the mods are making this game juicy
As I suspected making the game better, but I feel like they still don't have enough freedom to do more!
Given how most Mobile Suits in Gundam range from 15 to 20 meters in height (a few outliers being the Psycho Gundams being 40+ meters), they wouldn't look too out of place in BattleTech. Just tweak their designs to fit the overall aesthetic of BattleTech and they can pass off as prototype designs or some LosTech design.
I mean, the Phoenix Hawk LAM pretty much *is* a Gundam.
The other thing these games get wrong besides scale is mobility in general. These things can strafe, they can crouch and drop prone, the TechManual describes some pilots managing to do hand stands. BattleMechs are the king of the battlefield because of their myomer "muscles" that make them move more like humans than hydraulics-powered rock-em sock-em robots.
Honey I shrunk the mechs!
what was the weight of an M1A4? 85 tons rite?. 100 ton mech would be about that size
Are light and medium mechs re-scaled? The cockpits seems a tad bit on the small side compared to the humans on the ground. I know they are supposed to be really cramped though.
A lot of light 'Mechs in novels only have the pilot's head and shoulders actually in the "cockpit" area. The Spider was infamous for being too claustrophobic even for most MechWarriors (and for not having a way to eject). Cramped as hell. Hell, ProtoMechs had pilots basically curling up into a ball to get inside, and that only worked because the Clans had actually wired the pilots' brains in and they went batshit insane after a while. And Elementals are just discount 40k Space Marines.
How does the scale change affect walking through buildings and stomping vehicles?
It doesn't, stomp away!
I like this, it feels like Armored Core or Front Mission mechs
I always thought it was strange that a locust (20 tons) could stomp on and destroy a heavy tank. For reference an M1 abrams MBT weighs 80 TONS
Still, I doubt it'd withstand 20 tons on top of it, right? Of all the forces an MBT is built to withstand something crushing it from above isn't really one of them.
What does this do to the Flea, and is there still *HUGE* mechs that just tower over the more well balanced ones, you know for fun
This is amazing
Considering the rescale, the cockpits looked too small...
Until I did a lore deep dive. Apparently, you put a mech on more than getting into it. The cockpits in lore are tiny since 90% of all control is done through the neural helmet, a tiny spot for the organic CPU (the "pilot") to be housed in armored safety.
Sort of! A pilot took up the whole head of an Atlas and that was considered roomy. Meanwhile the Spider was small enough that it didn't have proper ejection capabilities.
It's not all the Neurohelmet though. The Inner-Sphere never really figured out true brain-machine links, the helmet just uses the pilot's own sense of balance to automate keeping the 'Mech upright to some extent.
Now, the Clans, they came up with "advanced imaging" to truly make pilots move ProtoMechs with their minds, but there was a shelf life because those pilots went batshit insane. So it never got very popular.
In the TechManual the control really are described as two joysticks and foot pedals. But they've got more degrees of freedom. Push the joysticks up and down, twist them, same with the "foot pedals" where you basically wear them and can move them as much as your own feet.
Apparently some very good MechWarriors can make particularly nimble mechs do handstands.
@@colbyboucher6391 A mech doing a handstand. That IS something i want to see.
Does anyone know if there is a way to get a centered third person view instead of over the shoulder??
i would like a mod that revamps the animations of the mechs, and also one that replaces PGI's awkward models with 3D renders of shimmering swords versions of battle tech mechs, THAT would be cool.
Now it actually makes sense why your stuck on that rock.
Looks great! Unfortunately, hasn't been updated for DLC.
Man I got hyped watching this video but the mod isn't updated and doesn't work anymore it seems :(
Seriously, this is so much better. The only reason it seems even a little "off" is because of the monchromatic trees. They're all huge. There's no smaller foliage to make sense of the scale. Any time the mechs are next to vehicles, trucks, people, or normal buildings their size makes perfect sense. They also made PERFECT sense when the shuttle came in. That's the kind of size vehicles you could expect to pack on one of those shuttles and actually take in and out of orbit. When you consider how many mechs an actual dropship can haul, they can't be any bigger than this. And mechs in story and cannon are gladitorial suits, not "godzilla size" as it was put. They're SUPPOSED to be able to take cover in the world around them. Only the huge 100 ton mechs really entered the "damn that thing is big and hard to hide" category. The really small mechs are supposed more like seriously oversize power armor. Cockpits with limbs. TANKS are supposed to be dangerous to mechs in a head on fight. It's terrain and technology that make mechs superior. In proper lore you're not supposed to be able to step on a tank with a medium mech and destroy it. You'd have to attack it physically because of it's size. Only assault mechs get close to "stomp on a tank" range and even then you wouldn't if it was still mobile it might knock you over. So I think this mod really nails it for size.
Well with the focus on the mod bringing you closer to the ground, more attention will be obtained from the lack of details from that height. I think that is what your getting at. Obviously it would be great if PGI implemented this mod into the base game and then added a bit more details for environmental assets like bushes etc..
@@NoGutsNoGalaxy Yes it really would. Or more procedural generation. PGI's biggest downfall with trying to enact the inner sphere war either with MWO or in a game like this is that without infinite variety of warfare areas you are doomed to the eventual 'memorized maps' gameplay... which I HATE from a tactical standpoint. Revisiting a battlefield should be a very rare and exciting thing... not commonplace. Or at least not beyond a single campaign of defense or attack of an area. Also unfortunately PGI just doesn't have the talent, team size, or capability to make this a reality. Which makes me very sad. It's the war ranging across the entire inner sphere across endless battlegrounds that I dream of. And no game has ever delivered.
This looks absolutely delicious
Yeah, this is more or less the scale I expected as well from years of watching the cinematics and FMV from past mechwarrior games... it's especially weird because in a number of them they show human directly in comparison to the mech size (Mechwarrior 3 comes to mind when the poor grunts on the ground got stomped or Mechwarrior 4 when the mechwarriors board their mech)
What i am curious though is what exactly is the reasoning for PGI to upscale these mechs?
When they put the tanks etc.. and realized those tanks were too small in comparison to the mechs and made no sense, surely they recognize by that point that the mechs were oversized... why keep the mechs at those oversized size and upsizing the vehicles instead of the sensible things to resize the mechs down appropriately?
its for the "wow" factor. unfortunately battletech never had actual numbers on mech sizes (probably was easier to keep that way so they wouldn't have to rescale the minis), and thus these numbers are always going to be up to interpretation.
but there is also a factor that some robot enthusiasts just like the idea of "bigger is better". they prefer their mechs to be gigantic because they think that looks cool. its not very realistic, but many fans of mecha could care less about "realism" and more care about feeling like literal Olympic titans on the battlefield...instead of actually feeling grounded in realism.
i definitely fall into the "realism" camp, and i would actually like for the battlemechs to be smaller then they would logically be (based on weight),but that's a personal preference.
probably cause the wehicles got 1 or 2 hitbox, and the mechs got 5-6. Or just simply they built the world around the mechs , and that was to hard wired to the developers brain , so nobody was able to think outside the box...
Maybe they just looked at battletech tabletop games and didn't realise that the maps of classic bt are 1/1200 and the mechs are 1/285. So the mechs really look towering over every map feature. So in comparison the real scale looks out of place.
But the bigger is better rule is the most likely ^^
Great Mod. Thanks for showing this Phil.
While scale is some thing I had a problem with MWO's 3D models, it was more the proportions of the arms, legs, hips ect that bothered me. Take the Centurion for example. It is way to wide in teh torso, it's legs are thick, it has the arms of a big barrel chested dock worker, and the head is shoved down into the torso. It should be a slightly taller than the Hunchback and a little leaner. legs half the width of not two thirds, pelvis narrower, torso thinner but a little tall. and the arms adjusted.
The atlas looks to stocky. Make that torso, legs, and arms a little longer and it would be great.
Grasshopper can be slightly shorter, but make it lean. especially in the arms and legs, bring the pelvis in.
All the crotch sections of the mechs look like big droopy diapers.
I love this mod. The light mechs are truly tiny. I wish it could be applied to MWO.
Can you play online with the mod active?
Oh I like this! Got another to change the range of the weapons? a 155 howitzer can fire about 20 miles....
Volumetric scaling mod does not currently work for steam version saddly.
In the 1980'a Battletech board game, the mech size is 12 to 15 meters. I have not gotten any of the Catalyst Games Battletech books so I am not familiar with the new size in their cannon.
It's not a catalyst/fasa problem. The scale of mechs has always been broken in this game. For example the early novels from the 80's say a shadowhawk's cannon is an 80mm. Except if that was the calibre then the mech itself would only be a couple of meters tall going by the muzzle size. Or if you bought old FASA models and scenery, the mechs would be something like 10 stories tall, or 20+ meters. Meanwhile the books say the absolute largest they get is 12m and most are shorter. etc.
Catalyst cannon is the same. Except the new minis got scaled up so they could get more detail, so 6mm infantry is out of whack now.
Making me wish I had a PC to play MW5 on lol, I like how this looks so much more than base game, it makes more sense, seems more realistic
This is SO much better!
I assume this only works on base game mechs? I'd love to install it but I am afraid of destroying my save that is heavily modded.
totally agree on the scaling, looks like i have some downloading to do. Love it.
This looks so much better that it's actually painful to look at the upscaled Metal Gear Rex sized mechs of MWO and MW5.....these actually make sense....
Gotta get Navid to put Chonky Guns into MW5 sometime in the future as well.
I AGREE WITH YOU 100%. This is proper scale.
how small is the flea with that mod the flea is my favorite mech of all time
I thought an Atlas was supposed to be 10 stories tall though, looks just a lil too small for me, takes away from the emersion, maybe if they scale each individual Mech, it does look good i hope they keep working on mods for this game nice video man wtg
lmaooo no dude, the first cross-section illustration of an Atlas has the pilot taking up the entire head. And *that* was considered roomy for a 'Mech. These things are meant to be looking out of 2-story windows. They're obstructed in tabletop by 12-meter tall trees. Infantry can actually be a threat to them if they're fielded properly and played smart.
For that matter, they're not rock'em sock'em robots. They have myomer fiber bundle muscles. That's the invention which made them practical. These things can sprint, they can crouch and even drop prone (not a smart idea). They can strafe, it's just that in Tabletop where each hex is 30m that sort of evasive movement is assumed or abstracted away. In the TechManual it's explained that the best MechWarriors can make them do handstands, and in one novel some desperate pilot backflipped their Spider over an enemy to reach their rear armor.
Check out some of the artwork on the page for the Atlas on Sarna. One or two are oversized but they're otherwise fairly consistent.
Any mechassault fans? It's an arcade spin off and the scale seems pretty good. You could fight infantry and kick trucks sky high without being the size of a skyscraper.
Yup, a lot of people got into mechwarrior/battletech because of mechassault.
The more I learned about cannonical 'Mechs the more I appreciated MechAssault. At the time a lot of people were pissed because we knew MechWarrior itself was dead, so people were like "what the hell'a this arcade nonsense it's not a replacement!" Now I'd love to see a more detailed MechAssault.
I was skeptical, but you sold me on it.
It is part of the mw5 reloaded mod as well!
You need to play more mech 5 man
What about this mod with merctech and tt-ai mods?
I would love to see some more modded gameply!
This actually makes me want to buy the game... now. lol