I'm thrilled to have pulled such a big thought leader into my hour long video, further thrilled that you agreed on the matters, and *wildly* thrilled you approved of my scale factor quote :)))
I need to correct myself: HBS's BattleTech (2018) did NOT include procedural generation. They curated handmade maps of massive scales, and then allowed the game to take smaller squares of that map while generating contracts.
Why didn't they just use that map? Seems some really backwards decisions were commonly made in mw5 development. I avoided mw online as "online" meant cash grab bollocks, but you make some interesting points about how corrupted mw5 is in that regard. I've not been invested in MW since MW3 and I have never found anything to scratch that itch. I even skipped 4 as I was just not impressed in the differences, with the graphics looking about the same or worse than MW3. Now watching your reviews while I wait for MW5 to download as I picked it up from a bargain bin. Sounds like the game is really in the mods though. I kind of hope that Games Workshop might make a great Titan(mech) based game in the near future. Give a real sense of slow massive scale and tactics etc also having come from a tabletop game. I have no interest in the armoured core games as they sit half way between MW and Zone of the enders/gundamn. Would rather have it try to mimic reality or commit to being wacky and extreme.
Kamea is the villain in the story as she end her civilization. After revealing her people used mass destruction weapons the greater houses nuked their planet as revenge of using weapons of mass destruction to start a conflict between two houses. Once the pandora's box is open the glove is off. Free for all to invade. Millions of people had already died by the time the game ended and Kamea as regent is responsible for the actions of her people. She used her people to win against her uncle by revealing her people as war criminals.
@@lucassmith4524 Very true, it would have to be them fully trusting their IP to someone who would make a quality game rather than just squeeze as much money as possible, and they are not like that as a company. One can dream though.
I wish the license for Mechwarrior video games would move from Piranha Games Inc to someone who is more competent. It never ceases to amaze me how passionate modders put companies like PGI to shame when they make improvements that should have been there from the start. The systems that existed in previous Mechwarrior games, the developer can't just skip implementing them. People remember.
tell you what let's see if you can do better, or even think of a studio that you think can do better, good luck with either option, because no matter who does it people are never going to be satisfied and someone like you is always going to bitch about something.
PGI, for misfortune of us all, seems to have the fatal combination of incompetence and arrogance written into their company's culture. Like, first they in their infinite retardation start making a game using CryEngine, and then those shit for brains idiots go ahead and cease-and-desist murder pet-project of CryTek. And after murdering CryTek's pet they have the audacity to start whining and moaning about how CryTek isn't helping them sufficiently with CryEngine. And the worst thing is, PGI isn't even going to go under despite their continued ineptitude because they're being funded by Canadian tax-dollars.
Having been on the other side of this coin it's simply that the pressures of monetization PLUS the decision-making parties... Just really don't care that much about hitting the lore, scope, scale, and experience bar. They make a series of compromises. It hits the target and they make money. Done.. rinse and repeat. Very predictable.
I wish microsoft would just whore it out. There are plenty of capable fans… sure we will get shovel ware, however for every 10 awful games we will recieve a true gem. On that note, aperently the Wolves game “aka fan made Mechassalt” has been picked up by Microsoft.
_MechWarrior 5: Mercenaries_ turned me off right away with the idea that I'd be playing a _Mercenaries_ game with the bland-boy motivation of avenging my father. Avenging? What happened to the bright side, where I get to keep all the money?
This is a golden comment. I didn't give a rat's ass about my father: he was my in-game father for like 2 whole minutes. Also, for a mercenaries game whose whole shtick is running a merc company (a 1st person Battletech) it's not very good at that. 3 dozen mechs in a Leopard? How about let me buy more Leopards. How about let me sell those Leopards and buy a Union class. How about contracting with tankers/VTOl pilots for air support, etc. Where's all the interesting stuff.
They were trying to do the Vengeance route - where we have a named character whose goal is to avenge his father, family, and his planet. Unfortunately we have nothing to connect with with this character. With Ian Dresari, the acting was on point and you got to see how and why you were fighting. Every character had motives and interactions which made you bond with them as you progressed. Then when THAT decision had to be made, your decision had consequences. The only thing I disliked was the sequel in Black Knight, the game made it so no matter the decision, the outcome was the same - Ian became corrupt and overthrew his sister to the point his Allies joined a resistance against him. - Here I actually forgot multiple times I was trying to avenge my father against a certain Merc group….after facing 6 different Merc groups. At this point I’ve been shot at so many times, I’m just yeah it’s part of the job - nothing personal. So what’s the point of this vengeance? I have no motive….
@@mysticdragonwolf89 ugh, the plot in Vengeance was one of the weakest aspect of that game. Frankly, out of the whole MW4 series of games, only the Mercs provided enjoyable experience. The mear idea of replaying Vengeance and Black Knight just fills me with dread.
PGI announced "MechWarrior 5: Clans" some time ago with a clear focus on nostalgia for the second part with the basis of the narrative about Clan Invasion, as well as with the available description on the project's website: "meticulously designed maps and missions deliver immersive and intracate tactical gameplay and combat experiences.", to which after repeated a recent attempt at vanilla MW5:M there are only doubts about the success of the implementation of such statements. The video is still more than relevant, to our sadness and regret. Thank you for your hard work and we are waiting for the next one.
I have mixed feelings about Mechwarrior 5. The primary stompy shooty is fun, but everything else is distinctly lacking. On nearly every aspect outside of the mission gameplay I feel HBS BT did far better. This game has alot of "it would be cool if they just" [blank], alot of missed potential. I do absolutely feel that there are people within PGI who are passionate and talented with their craft, it just often feels watered down. It feels like a group project where 20 percent of the people involved are passionate and have a vision, and the other 80 are just 'there', and due to poor synergy between the 20 and 80 the overall package ends up bland or unpolished. The sad thing is, it's still tons of fun at times. Some of the handcrafted missions at the end of HOTIS chains are legit sick that actually require some unique lance building and strategy. And you still manage to feel like a badass when you manage to jump jet and axe a VTOL. It's fun enough to warrant multiple passion-project videos from me. It is clear that PGI is TRYING (or at least someone within the company is) it just feels that poor management or budgetary constraints weigh it down. I want to play and enjoy it but it's hard to justify at times I will say that PGI has at least been treating modders a bit better with the Call to Arms DLC, they gave modders access to the new modding tools about a week before the launch so that they have time to fix anything that breaks, I just can't tell if that was a company decision or one guy fighting for the ability to do so.
You've hit it on the head. Stomping around is fun enough - missing charm but competent. MW5 is a fine enough base to do something more with--I think we're all hoping for more.
HBS BT campaign feel like a mediocre 10 years old kid cartoon, but MW5 is even worst. Hyades Rim, mod of HBS BT, is the only one did the job right, though the difficult part is too high.
An hour long PGI hitpiece is exactly what I needed today, after my friend and I found out how bad the co-op system in this game is. Why do co-op games that don't allow both players to progress through the campaign in unison even exist?
What's equally disappointing is that CO-OP gameplay fixes some of the AI deficiencies present. I can't, though, summon the courage to ask friends to buy this game.
As he said the campaign and career modes are very similar, and if I'm not mistaken the best mission variety mod conflicts with the campaign, just play the career mode if you still want to play mw5 after watching this.
Years ago when PGI was still making a half baked effort with Mechwarrior Online, Russ Bullok coined a phrase... "minimally viable product"... and that's what Mechwarrior 5 seemed to me like it was when it got dumped on epic games store as an exclusive. A lot of original founders from MWO got used to be filled with disappointment at PGI's "talent". It seems 3 years later it really hasn't passed the point of being a minimally viable product... something that the hardcore fans that are the battletech fan base keeps trying to polish and improve but in the end they are just polishing a turd. Honestly PGI could of done a simple graphical remake of Mechwarrior 4 Mercs and added in a coop game mode and would of had a much much better product. Such a shame cause I loved the Mechwarrior series... and what's sad is it's likely we'll not get another attempt at a Mechwarrior game for another 17 years now. I'm glad that I have a working copy of MekTeks version of Mechwarrior 4 Mercs on my computer and we have HBS Battletech on steam... Shame HBS seems hell bent against making money and refuses to come out with more content for their great game.
HBS got bought out by Paradox Games, so they aren't calling the shots anymore. Paradox bought them out and then promptly let the title stagnate. I'm pretty sure it was a corporate move meant to kill any competition on the turn-based arena.
Yeah, it's a business concept that comes up a lot in software development. The idea is to create a minimum viable product first, so you have something to ship, then improve it from there.
Great video as always. I'm glad you mentioned how mods have tried desperately to save this hollow game. I've tried to like this game time and time again, but every time I end up disappointed. I was really looking forward to a 4 player coop campaign, but its impossible to recommend 3 other people buy this mess. This video has convinced me to check out Battletech again though.
My introduction to the mechwarrior universe was mechassault 2. I didn't really find out about the mechwarrior series until a few years ago. Mechwarrior online was my first entry into that series. I played at launch, back in 2013, and it didn't really click with me. Fast forward to MW5's release and I was hooked. After a few hundred hours, when it got boring, I role-played to the best of my ability- using only light mechs to assassinate a target and get out with no collateral damage, cheating and making a souped up atlas to defend a base alone as a one man army, the list goes on. Yet no matter how many mods I add, how many roles I assume, It feels empty. I never noticed the lack of story until you pointed it out, because I didn't really even notice the story. I've never played Battletech or an XCOM-like game, but it looks much more enticing now that you've shown off clips. I hope that if there's another entry in this series it's an upgrade, because by god, who doesn't love giant robots? Awesome work again BT, can't wait for the next one!
It is FRUSTRATING that alot of the best fucking Mechwarrior Games are straight up inaccessible without doing some finangling and other shit just to get it to run. Thankfully MechVM Exists (Mechwarrior 2/GBL/MW2 Mercs) along with a slew of other options. Still, it does feel weird that the license holders aren't doing much with the games they legally have rights too, even just re-releasing them onto something like GoG if not merely just remastering them (Just pretty it up and make it work on MODERN systems, this shouldn't be fucking hard *Cough* ASPYR *COUGH* )
I discovered you recently through your MW videos, and I really enjoy and appreciate them. You communicate very clearly and explain things well. Thanks. When I was a kid (I'm 30 now), discovering MW4 Mercs through the incredible confusing, convoluted (for me, anyway) free release was a huge moment. It's how I discovered that the Battletech franchise even existed. MW4 Mercs is one of my favorite games ever. I hope we get Mechwarrior stuff approaching that level of detail and quality again. It was made with a lot of love and care. Your videos on MW definitively describe the state of the series. I guess I'll have to get the Battletech game you talked about in this video, you make it sound really cool!
Play all the games! I think Battletech is a wonderful and higher quality introduction into the setting. I'm 32, had been playing these games since I was 6, and didn't fully understand the setting until Battletech.
I agree with every point you made. I end up just replaying MW4+Mercs every so often because of the great amount of joy it brings, but whenever I play MW5 I just feel...so disappointed.
Great review! I never played MW5, only watched vids of it, and yeah that all sounds about right. Paints a really grim picture of this game, quite sad that MW5 is such a linear experience when other games offer so much. When I heard you talking about all the options you have in BattleTech, as well as the implementation of consequences in MW4, I couldn't help but shutter that we got cheated out of such a great experience. It also really makes me sad knowing PGI has exausted probably all the effort they have for this game and after all that still failed to make any substantial improvements. So depressing seeing the IP in the hands of such an inept company. RIP
Great video as always. Its heartbreaking to see the community desperately trying to fix a sinking ship. Theres so much love for this universe, hopefully one day the right company will come along and make the sim we all want.
I don't want to let go of Alex Iglesias's designs, but if it means handing the IP off to Harebrained Schemes or another studio willing to pour their heart out and write some stories, I guess I'd have to consider it.
I think it would be pretty amazing if all these modders banded together and made a 10x better game than PGI because it’s clear to me PGI is struggling to meet demand and as C Trouble said it’s a sinking ship with a limited amount of hands trying to nail the water out.
@@birthdaytruck HBS shared the exact same models with PGI in a division-of-labor deal: PGI already had all the 'Mech designs, HBS apparently designed most of the vehicles (I think combined arms hadn't been introduced to MWO at that time). It was kind of a neat move, as it standardized those designs across both games.
Fun fact about the cockpit displays in MechWarrior online. The displays inside used to actually display all of the critical components in your Mech and whether or not they were destroyed! This feature was removed from the game a few years after launch for no discernible reason, possibly to improve performance? It's why a lot of the next that we're around from launch have a lot more cockpit displays than the newer ones.
oh right i had forgotten till you mentioned i really wish trees wouldnt straight up nullify every weapon in the game ok sure, i can see it blocking a small to medium laser but it shouldnt just rob all kinetic energy from a gauss or AC20
Fun fact on MW4 animations: Purportedly, a certain set of animations that exist on the Nova Cat, Thanatos and other similar bird leg mechs has an upper cap to the speed they can run at or the legs bug out and fly apart.
Totally agree with your opinions on the mods. I have played probably 200 hours of MW5 and purchased it on launch. It's a love/hate relationship for me. Love the overall experience of gunplay and visuals etc. But the lack of depth and variety (although has been improved) has me yearning for the older titles still. It can be enjoyable. but sometimes that enjoyment feels to be had 'in spite' of the game mechanics rather than 'because' of them.
This video is so insanely good, it lead me to looking into your channel. I really love this kind of in-depth breakdown and content so I hope to see more! Your pacing and script writing are top-notch and not over the top, which I appreciate a lot. I hope to see you post more videos like this on a lot of games and genres, even if they were a fifth the length.
Thank you for your kind words! I'm condensing my next videos as much as possible. These 45 min - 1 hour videos don't seem that enticing for far too many.
what i would love to see in a Battletech/mechwarrior game would be You start off in one of the great house armies, (you would get to pick witch house You would want to start in) then You end up left behind to fend for Yourself. You would have to make do with what You can find a disabled tank here a working vtol there and slowly working You way out of tanks and vtols and into machs and slowly building up a lance of mechs. then as You take on jobs You find Yourself a nice like world and You set up a base and start sending out your mecs out on missions to the point that Your running a full blown mec outfit.
DLC 3 comes out in August. Theoretically, it's the last DLC. Theoretically, that's when mods are "updated finally". I don't believe we'll be seeing MW5 reloaded return, though.
I'll be honest, if you'll allow. I did manage to notice some of these things, but it's never really bothered me too much. Call me a shortsighted brain-dead consumer all you want, but I genuinely love the game. I never felt like nitpicking too much, because generally, if I have a good experience with a game, my opinion of the game will be good. I don't try to nitpick all of the small details of a game, which would probably ruin my perception of the game. But I'm glad you're doing it, because this stuff is what most people other than myself are really looking for in these types of games. And I think that your review is incredibly informative and will help countless people choose whether or not to play the game. Keep up the great, honest reviews.
This is the most professional comment I've read in a while. I largely agree: you *can* enjoy MW5. The core stompy shoot is fun enough, and there's enough mix and match motivation to keep going. PGI could have told a better story with simpler means, and it's a shame we didn't get that. PGI could have also *really* fleshed out fun technical bits and pieces, and it's a shame we didn't get that. Someone else phrased it, albeit rather depressingly, better than I: MWO will probably shut down soon, and it's not an IP that brings in enough money to revive it. At the very least, we'll have a neat-o MW5 mix and match game to putz around in for the long haul.
Thanks for the reminder you made this video with mods in mind. Ya the biggest problems are those patches that destroy mod compatibility. I never understood that when games kinda turn dependant on mods to survive why they do not have a better communication to their modders. Making lists of changes specifically to modders. Give big mods the possibility to request features they have problems implementing via mods or are impossible.
Most of that was just growing pains between what the game/editor supported and how the community knew to build mods, honestly. Last few patches have barely needed updates to mods other than repacking to get the "out of date" warning to go away. Heck, this last patch had a bunch of features modders requested in the editor opened up. We do have a channel on the official discord to chat with PGI folks about the editor issues we run into.
@@yrrot7 Then it's fine. I'm quite scarred of many game developers lacking the ability to understand what makes the game being able to survive and grow.
@@yrrot7 some of the mods i use were deactivated with the latest patch, I simply re-activated them and they run just fine, so the changes made weren't game breaking.
The thing I like is the multiple factions and the galaxy access we have. Story wise - I agree. We can not form a base emotional attachment to the MC as it supposed to be. This is due to lack of anything we can connect - we can’t self insert. While in vengeance we couldn’t either, it was the actors who sold the story of why we should be committed. I really hate the place where we spawn in the hanger and force us to walk to our XO…especially when THATS all we can explore in our dropship. Hell in drops ships I thought we’d get those circular ones…
If by circular ones you mean the larger Spheroid (Union, Hrothgar, etc) ones, then YES. A single leopard never made sense to hold the dozens of 'mechs you collect. There actually was a spheroid dropship in the early, early MW5 sneak peak/demo. Wish it was still there.
@@birthdaytruck I just found a mod that replaces the ship with a Union Orbital dropship - with interstellar travel model replacer, deployment, and interior design It works with other mods too
@@birthdaytruck I found another mod that works with the Union dropship replacer. It arms the dropship with several PPC, Large lasers, 2 Guass, 2 AC per wing (that shotgun weapon) and 1 LRM Now the drop ship has justifiable weapons I engaged god mode and parked near the landing zone and watched for 20 minutes as the drop ship absolutely destroyed waves of mechs, tanks, and helis- definitely recommend
Man this was an absolutely stellar video! The audio design and quality was very nice, and the editing brought the whole thing together so well. I started with MW5 and Battletech, and even if I only had YAML, I find MW5 to be a fun game to play with a friend after getting home from work. To completely honest, I’m 75% there for the raw mechanics of tweaking, optimizing, and creating the craziest, strongest and most broken builds possible with very small and very big mechs. In all, I got here for the game, stayed because of the mods and friends, and really appreciate your honest input and effort you put out onto UA-cam for all of us. Bravo.
You're hitting on an important point, here: creating builds in MechWarrior is 90% of the allure. I spend so much god darn time on the MechDB website theorycrafting 'mechs.
For those wondering, the mod list used during the creation of this video includes: 1. ADC Ballistics 2. Enhanced Hud with advanced zoom (no longer functional) - or 3D HUD WITH ADV ZOOM (no longer functional) - or "Advanced Zoom" by Bobbert Moddert 3. Better Spawns by Troopermaniac 4. Source HD Texture by Lt47 5. Better Lighting in Mech Hangar and operations & better lighting on bridge by Sankara Samsara 6.Improved Mech Shader by lt47 7. PGI_Infantry by PGImw5mods 8. Repair Bays by Bobbert Moddert 9. TTRuelz_AIMod2 & TTRuelz_LanceMateOrderz 10. Von Biomes 11. Yet Another Mech Lab 12. (dependant) MW5: Reloaded 13. Coyotes Mission Pack 14. Weather Improvement Mod (mostly now already in vanilla game)
I never noticed the hip displacement specifically until this video, but I did notice the PGI mechs in motion look quite stiff. It just doesn’t seem right compared to how battlemechs are described in action in the fiction. I find myself wishing arms, at least ones with elbows, had a “safe” or “neutral” position that let them move more like a persons arms move as they walk or run and then a separate “ready” position that brought them into a fighting position, assuming they have weapons. Staggers and knockdowns would be a nice touch. For example, if you’re sprinting downfield in something like a Griffin and you take an AC/20 to the shoulder, simulating the impact by momentarily taking the torso out of position (more than a simple screen shake) and forcing a small alteration to the mech’s heading. It doesn’t go down on its ass, but it gives a feeling that the mechs equilibrium was disrupted and the pilot and gyro brought it back before it toppled over. Bonus pints if, again, the arms are involved. Mechs are functionally tanks on legs, but even machines as big as the Victor are never described as being stiff or rigid in a fight.
I'm pretty sure that HBS's Battletech didn't have procedurally-generated maps. At least, I got that impression from UA-camrs who have thousands of hours in the game and can recognize the map and the enemy tactics as soon as they drop in.
I double checked: you're right. They're not procedurally generated, but the system HBS implemented produced an enormous variety of maps. forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/battle-map-randomly-generated.1083919/
"secret" mission, then your dropship flies over the objective. I would like to send my lance to a spot on the overview map, or set way points. What Lance commander is going to take 4 mechs and wade head long into 16-30 others (no matter what size)? I would like to see the game develop a need to strategize versus the Steiner Scout lance way of doing things. Great Vid!
Great video! Very comprehensive and detailed criticism that's spot on. I'm having a difficult time motivating myself to even finish the MW5 campaign. I'm thinking of giving HBS' Battletech another run through instead.
After I finish a video, I begin uninstalling the games I used to gather footage. I uninstalled MW5 and Fallout 4, for example, but I left BattleTech alone.
@@michaelbaker8284 Yes, some things could've been better. But considering this was all done on the original Kickstarter campaign of about $2.8M, it's not too bad.
Here's a very simple example that illustrates how lifeless MW5 is compared to it contemporaries: In Battletech (2018) I would really bad when a member of my mech company would die. In MW5, I often wouldn't even notice that one of my people died until I tried to start the next mission and noticed a vacancy in one of the slots. Both games fill your roster with randomly generated characters. Battletech actually made them feel like characters. Needless to say, that was also true with the old MechWarrior games. Hell, in MW3, I felt a strong comradery with the Mobile Field Base guy and he was just the one who briefed you and drove around in a giant box truck. But, he was an actual character. There was personality to him. He felt like an older coworker who was stuck in the same mess with you.
Now it really sucks in CAMPAIGN if you're not doing Co-Op and you just don't get any new recruits...at all. So you're just stuck with yourself and Freeman for quite some time (This can REALLY SUCK when doing certain missions when the enemy just decides 'I'ma dump 2 Heavies on you, oh lemme add a coupla lights, lemme hit you with a fucking WOLVERINE, etc' as if the AI Director thinks you can consistently hit Cockpit shots all the fuckin' time.
Just, watching this video, I'm reminded how I played.. maybe the first couple campaign missions before i gave up, modded the shit out of it, and just stuck to the sandbox mode. I kinda forgot about that, because the beginning of the story was so forgettable that I didn't even remember that the game had one until it was brought up.
Very well done, Sir. I truly hope someone high up in PGI has seen this, has taken it to heart, and is making adjustments for future games. Vanilla MW5 feels completely lifeless to me (I haven't played MW5 in a year or more, and haven't tried mods, but might revisit if they aren't still broken). Mostly though, I'm just looking forward to much improved improved games. Hopefully a better Clans, MW6, etc.. I'll likely be disappointed again, but there's always hope. 🤞
I would say that the tactics component of the game is not just a problem of mechwarrior 5, but many a games with AI companions or strategy games that rely on some level of AI. A framework for which the AI component of a game can be exposed to players for them to control or setup would be appreciated and a great mechanic. The best I have seen is in a little game called istrolid, where the AI menu allows you to script how the AI acts when you are not taking care of it. More games need this, and it would probably help the devs make good AI for a game
Also glad I found this. While I enjoy this game especially when its heavily modded, I also found alot of things missing with this especially with the sound ambiance, the mercenary experience outside combat missions, and the single player story. Great noticing details like the 1st person and 3rd person movement animations arent in sync. This video nailed everything I felt missing playing this game especially with wanting alot of Battletech's merc management features present in this game.
I'm glad the review represented what you felt. I'll probably, once all the mods are compatible again, do another review with all the DLC later down the line.
Man, that's straight in the nail you hit here, I know this is a year old VIdeo, I just listened to the whole video while working and I can fully agree with all off this. I was wishing so much for Mechwarrior 5, I even pre ordered, been a fan of the franchise for a long time. the only thing that keeps me coming back to the game is the mods, the mods make the game actually enjoyable. but yeah, it still lacks a lot, would be great to see this game taken to another studio who would care and rebuild the game to what Mech fans want, but let's be honest, that is mostly wishful thinking
NAILED! THANK YOU. Especially the part about "cash grab", because it is. Also, mod really did make this game. I hope to mod this game someday as I have some ideas not touched upon.
Hey, I just wanna come back and say... There's a massive mod renaissance going on right now in MW5. I'm even helping to distill co-op bug workarounds to their essence with others :) E.g. YAML and Scary Tanks are back!
MW4: Mechs feel heavy and the difference between light scout and full assault is massive. MWO/MW5: Every mech is a stabilised speed demon cutting weaponry to go fast... Also MWO/MW5: I was written by a Steiner obsessed with speed...
I think 'mech feel is subjective, but I tend to agree. MW4's 'mechs felt heavy perhaps because the animations were more representative. Movement, especially, provided a definitive "acceleration" surge from stationary. MW5 and MWO mechs tend to accelerate at a linear speed.
@@birthdaytruck Hmm, not sure I agree with that. MW 4's mechs felt almost floaty to me. An unpopular opionion that I hold is that MW3, not 4, is the high point of the games, the mechs felt right and the sim aspects were front and center, plus the breifings were fantastic. MW4 felt like a arcade shooter to me.
I disagree, in MW5 mechs feel very slow and slugish to me. Because of that and mostly because of how flat most maps are, it's very hard if not impossible to take cover. Dumb AI is also a big reason for this, many battles happen in open terrain with enemy and friendly mechs clashing into each other. The lack of control of AI companions makes me often wish to play the missions solo, but then you get swarmed with infinit enemy spawns in some missions. Mech control in MWO feels alot more precise, and MWO maps usually have more verticality. It was gameplay wise alot better, atleast when I played it many years ago.
My first ever Mech game was MechWarrior 2; i've played MechAssault 1 and 2 and haven't played any other Mech game sense MechWarrior 5 came out on gamepass and i bought the game outright just because it was the series i've loved for over many decades. honestly the way 2 gave so much freedom of fun; over "forced choice" of having to legitimately use specifics I.E Catapault-C1 where it's got 2 large missle bays; and 4 medium laser bays.... but the fact that there's almost no room to fit all armor; a decent amount of ammo; and a nice weapon system without sacrificing so much. I know mechs are supposed to be supported like people with good compesition; but these are Mech models almost 500; if not over 600 years old; and people somehow can't take the old models that pre date the golden age of mechs? you just say that a data core of knowledge of Table of Contents is just gone and somehow i'm supposed to agree with that?
What really breaks the immersion for me is the salvage and shop system, You can sell anything to any shop and they have unlimited cash. There is no risk in taking salvage over cash, and your unlimited cargo space makes it a no brainer. I would like the salvage to make sense, make it so you can bring salvage vehicles and salvage crews if it is a smash and run. And give you the pick on the field if you control the battlefield after the battle. The salvage gets balanced If your storage space is limited and that the buyers of mechs and weapons have limited cash.
You know the worst part? One of the things mentioned in the video in passing: missions feel like instant action with some dealogue slapped on them. The core of the game is strategy and this game leaves it on the dustbin.
I like mechwarrior 5 as an afterwork break I play for a two hours and get some fun Its calm enough but has enough robot smashing i dont pass out in my chair
finally, so glad you keep making videos. i havent watched this video yet(only beginning) and i would recommend advice for next videos. dont make such harsh claims in introduction, because you havent made any arguments yet. if someone really likes mechwarrior 5, they would already be opposed to your video. it should be more like "lets figure out together what is wrong/right about this game". i dont mean to sound arrogant its just my feedback.
Hi, Noone - judging from feedback in a certain subreddit, your suggestion that the title was too harsh was correct. I read several comments that said "I'm not clicking on that" because they felt the title told the entire story. I'm not super happy with folk judging the book on the cover, but that's the game. I appreciate the suggestion.
Thank you for video. Just started to play, modified game with MercTech with several additional mods and already finding first 3 solo prologue mission too linear for player, basic things like System Jumps, Mech Market and Hire Pilots are closed which reducing abilities for player to solves that missions. While MW4 Mercs gives you ability to configure your campaign from start and select course with playstyle. Looked about other works Directors of MW5 Mercs and more or less everything gets in one picture unfortunately.
You pretty much nailed all of my feelings regarding mechwarrior 5. It's a real shame it turned out this way, but even in spite of that i had some enjoyment. I can only hope things get better.
MW5 is one of my favorite PC games ever since I started playing on PC. It's just a shame that it's sorta kinda shite. And I've heard on a consistent basis now is that MW3, 4 & 4 Mercs are not only better representations and examples of the IP and genre but are also wholly & categorically superior video games (disregarding their age to an extent). It's just so depressing & discouraging that I or my future kids will never be able to play them. As for HBS BT, for as long as I've played video games, turn-based grid-based strategy games (Xcom-likes basically) have always been my most hated video game genre, only rivaled by my distaste of rougelikes. In spite of that tho, I fully concur that it's currently best modern MW/BT video game that can still be bought, and for all the points you reason.
You can try to MechWarrior Quadrology - MW4 runs just fine. Windows Defender flagged something in the file, but I can't find any evidence supporting malicious nature.
@@birthdaytruck I've done some research for MW4. I've known about MW Quadrology and MekTek but from my internet sloothing, my only conclusion is that both Quad & MekTek have been entirely purged from the internet. And as far as I know the original CD/DVD ROM's don't run on modern windows anymore as well, so not even ebay can help.
@@toasterdudel8080 Yea. UA-cam guides were my first attempt too. But all the ones I watched were to suspicious or inconsistent with one and other to be trustworthy to try the links. At the moment MW5 + YAML, TTRulez, 330's & BobbertModdert has been as satisfactory as I can hope for. :)
@@toasterdudel8080 yeah it will blow their mind how badly it can be hacked thru various methods so people can cheat their asses off and you can't do a damn thing about it.
My biggest issue with MW5 is that I have to have a mod to to get the detailed mechlab, for a "technical studio" to cut the technical aspect of battletech really rustles my jimmies.
Good video. Overall I agree with the general sentiment, but I do think that in its current state, at its current price, the game is a decent buy even in its unmodded, vanilla state. That said, I agree that the original asking price for the original release state of the game was far less acceptable. A few notes, however: *Better Spawns basically has been implemented into the core game already. Spawns aren't as far out as in Better Spawns, but AI in the base game that doesn't spawn by drop ship will almost always spawn from the edge of the map, and never within the player's line of sight (including directions the player isn't looking). *For the last little while, PGI has been allowing modders preview access to new game builds so that they can release updates concurrently with new build releases. All of my mods had new compatible versions released alongside Call to Arms.
Thats something I noticed from when I first played the game was that I was getting swarmed from nowhere by tanks and stuff especially when trying to do demolition missions. No longer.
I think the extra mechs are stored in that jumpship (which might be related to interstellar expeditions) cos the bloody thing follow the main character into the unknown regions during the campaign
Fantastic summary for why Mechwarrior 5 is a huge tragedy. The combat and mech customization (after modding) are absolutely fantastic - but the dumb AI, lack of player "creativity" and all encounters kind of feeling the same absolutely ruin it. It's so strange to me that on the campaign map absolutely nothing ever changes. Initially I expected something like a mount & blade light where your actions in the warzones would result in a dynamic shift of territory, power and missions....but it literally doesn't matter what you do. The entire point of the game is to get money to buy bigger mechs to do the same mission but with more braindead enemies attacking you. It's depressing - the game could have been so much more. I've had a look at the mod tools to see if I could make some more mission types and spice things up - the mod tools are an absolute mess. I think it must be the procedural generation system they use that results in modding being a huge pain - no wonder we don't have more than Coyote's mission pack so far. I gave up eventually. Again, thanks for making the video Birthday Truck. I was going to make one for Mechwarrior 5 as well but honestly I think you've said everything. I don't think we can expect anything to change with the game either...and unfortunately mods won't save this one. On another note: I'm curious what your process is like to make these long analysis-style essays. I'm trying to make one for Pathologic 2 now but I'm struggling to organise it properly and build it up. I also have ADHD which doesn't help. I figured I'd ask you if you could tell me a bit about how you approach a topic and organize your thoughts - maybe I could learn a thing or two! If you're comfortable, could you add me on Discord? [DELETED]#[DELETED] (or my community discord discord.gg/MdszAPKnqc)
You've been a very supportive and active fan, Carbon. I'm happy to chat about my process - I've actually got some semblance of it written down. I'll also tell you what I wouldn't do again based on these videos. You summed up my complaints better than I: "The entire point of the game is to get money to buy bigger mechs to do the same mission but with more braindead enemies attacking you. It's depressing - the game could have been so much more". I'm envious I couldn't just say that.
I simply cannot fathom, nor forgive, the atrocious animations on the mechs. The animations in Mechwarrior 2 were better! Some people may not have liked how nimble the mechs were in Mechwarrior 4, but there is no denying the animation was top tier. Mechwarrior 3 really nailed the feel of 75 ton war machines running gracefully at 100kph. Compare that to Mech5 where they had to use different pacing when inside the cockpit vs outside it. Trying really hard to call it anything other than lazy.
I was tempted to make a video on Mechwarrior 5 as I found all the reviews lacklustre. But you have stated everything that I wished to in the depth that I wanted it addressed. I love and hate this game. With Mods it's it's so much fun. But the missions are unremarkable in singleplayer. The one thing I would add is that I do not believe that Comstar would allow the player merc company to delve as deep into the conspiracy as they do. I would have really liked it if you had to worry about crew leaving because who wants to fuck with Comstar. Or if you had a point of no return, where you are offered the chance to walk away and take on other contracts, or you can keep digging to get the truth but pay with a battle that you could not win. Comstar have killed planets in the past to obtain or destroy data, why tolerate these mercs?
Excellent video, well researched and presented, definately deserves more views than it has. Hopefully it makes its way to the developers so they can use this constructive criticism to either improve it.
I think you *can* like MW5 as a base game: you can enjoy the mechanics of shooting other 'mechs. I think it's hard to "love" MW5 like we all loved MW2 - MW4.
I love how when I'm looking to buy a mech they give an icon that says 'You need to kill these for a side quest !!!' but can't put that same icon on the crap you need to buy for the side quests.
this is great material and i 100% support this! Also this shows to console players that our PC mods are not CHEATS! this is new experience of this same game, this is like much better DLC (even music changing mod i changing you experience during play and it is fun). Also this mods are evolving - YAML was totally different year ago, so every big change of that mechanics (for example salvage 2.0) gives me oportunity to start career AGAIN and AGAIN! :) My solution for updates -if i hear about them, i am turning airplane mode in my MW5 laptop and i am playing offline until moders release new updates of they mods:)
The mods have fixed most of the feature gaps. What I crave now is storytelling. Also: Nexus still holds old version of mods for downloads. IF you can hold off on releases, you can absolutely keep going.
Battletech is my favorite fictional universe, and it's only my love for the franchise that keeps me attached to this game- and even I struggle to stick with it for long periods of time. Battletech 2018 was a masterpiece and hit all of the right notes for me, except that I grew up playing Mechwarrior 2 and then jumped to Mechwarrior 4 and want that first-person mech simulator experience. Like you said, there are just no other feasible alternatives out there right now. I desperately want to be able to keep jumping into this universe and play solid, compelling games in a world that's so ripe for exploring but the same 'my dad died so I inherited the mercenary company and now I'm going to blow stuff up' story over and over again is just so sad at this point. For now, I mostly just play it on the Xbox (I know it's inferior) and treat it like a quick arcade shooter to play a game or two, but that won't hold me over for another 17 years. It's crazy to me how a fan base this dedicated and passionate, albeit small, can keep getting stomped on and kicked around and somehow still keep the franchise afloat 40 years later
@@birthdaytruck thanks for the thorough analysis of the game- would love any any and all Battletech/Mechwarrior retrospective content. MW4 to me was so iconic that no matter how MW5 turned out, I would probably have been disappointed. Something about MW5 never really sat right with me from day one and I think you nailed all of the issues on the head
The problem is not with their appearance as such, it's with the fact that it totally destroys any sort of mission pacing and turns everything into a giant arena match. In MW4 (and all other MW games) you would proceed *through* a map to accomplish an objective, and encounter the enemy attempting to stop you. for most SP MW5 missions (I admit I didn't spend long on the game) you seem to be in a central little bowl of an area and have wave after wave of enemy combatants be dropped upon you, or even just teleported into existence once your back is turned. It's frustrating.
Hey, I’m still enjoying the game so far for the most part, but I can see how it could get old and I recognize some of the things it’s missing. I think you’re mostly correct here, and I applaud you for at least being fair and constructive in your criticism. You acknowledge when the game is doing something right, which some critics won’t allow when they’re criticizing a title they don’t like. Based on your recommendation, I may go back and try out Battletech, too. (FWIW, I’ve played MW2 back in the ‘90s, MW3, both MechAssaults on the original XBox, MWO, and I’ve listened to a Mechwarrior universe audio book on UA-cam. So, I’m no noob to the series by any means, but I haven’t kept up with it as much as I could over the past two decades. :/ Btw is there a mod to pipe in the entire Mechwarrior 2 soundtrack while I’m playing Mechwarrior 5? Mechwarrior 2 soundtrack from all the way back in 1995 has always absolutely slapped in my book, and has never been bested in any of the subsequent games. If you disagree, I challenge you to solo combat!
There are several music mods, yes: I used "MechWarrior Music Medley" by Timberwulf518. I would love to argue that MW3's soundtrack was better, but it only had two songs :(
not having at least some curated missions really hurt, it was because of curated missions that made you develop strategies and tactics in MW4, i remember several times where i would force myself to take a long roundabout route to the objective or navpoint because i remember theres particular forward scouting forces or base defenses that i dont want to engage or i forcibly engage them earlier than a scripted ambush
I can comment about the sabot rounds producing sparks; in most BT settings the AC's fire a HEAP [High explosive armor piercing] round, however I'm being nitpicky and all your points are on point. Modern mechwarrior games are almost there but the small details en masse keep it from the potential it could have on a macro-scale
Frankly, the best thing about MW5 is that I can pretend to be on an incredible Mercenary campaign with my brother at the helm, and my dad at my side in 4 player coop. We don't have a 4th player though, and I have to pretend pretty hard. At least the banter between the 3 of us drowns out ryana's terrible exposition and the enemies irritating screams of agony and cries for help. I do like it when they exclaim in shock at their failings, after their mechs have gone critical.
@@birthdaytruck absolutely, but frankly, even the worst games are fun with friends. Unrelated, but there is no feeling quite like going 129 kmph in a melee banshee with masc and supercharger to obliterate most mechs in 1 shot
Pretty sure a few of the listed missing features are on the game? There are environmental heat effects, Torso lock + free arm, zoom, collisions/charging, and night vision. I agree could use flood lights and a rear view mirror though. On 'mech fall-down, have any of the mech warrior games had fall down? That would really raise the immersion.
Environmental heat effects have been in the game since the Heroes of the Inner Sphere DLC so this script must have been a long time coming. Oh, and MW4 had mech knockdowns. It made stacking LB-X cannons or LRMs exceptionally powerful. Also I think the video was referencing heat vision, not night vision; The game has had night vision since launch.
Also, Battletech really felt great to play from the start. Sure, you were moving towards Assault mechs eventually, but on the road there it actually felt good to play with every class of mech, tooling them out and whatnot.
i'd say vonbiomes, coyote's mission packs, 330's pilot overhaul are essential.. cockpit glass, in the pit, mechtech camera are fun. yet another mechlab changes the game significantly
you are totally right and now i am bummed you all over again-- i forgot all the awesome missions MW4 had and PGI had the chance to make it way better and they blew it,
Ooooof... This is tough... I want to watch this immediately, but I also have a twelve hour shift I need to burn time during tomorrow... ... Screw it, instant gratification for the win.
I'sm still hoping that there will be mini missions in between where you actually get out of a mech.. (perhaps afre tour mech is shot you get out. avoid guards and what not) and maybe steal a tank or fast vehicle travel around base go to hangar steal a other mech xD or maybe a prototype .. id love that if we could get out and do a bit more ! or just wonder off around a friendly base with interactive npc's
I remember listening in to the pre release AMA sessions intended to build hype. The amount of times Russ Bullock said "Modders will fix that" (sometimes literally, I am not kidding) when he explaining how barebones the effort was for MW5 left me enraged. I was among first in line for a refund when the Epic games debacle hit and I did not return until it was deeply discounted. So long as there's that much apathy at the top, PGI will never produce anything good.
A great analysis and all the reasons why I've avoided MW5. MechCommander has been, for me at least, the most over all immersive BattleTech experience. The criticality of scouting; the watching of patrol patterns; being able to decide when and where to attack an installation, patrol or turret battery. The manic panic to try and intercept enemy reinforcements so you can defeat them in detail before they coalesce into one large unstoppable force. Some missions took hours to finish as you scouted, maneouvred, and then executed your plan to achieve the objective. You got useful briefings and a USEABLE briefing map, I miss the live-action elements. Plus, no mech felt useless nor was taking the heaviest mechs always the best option; I almost exclusively had 1 light mech/lance, supported by medium and/or heavy mechs. Yes, mech customization was a bit wonky, but you could design any mech for any purpose you had the components for. Creativity was not discouraged; why yes, I think I will load 5 lrms onto my Firestarter J. Now the loop is: go straight to the nearby waypoint and start blasting in a mission that at most takes 20 minutes if you are bad at aiming or haven't min-maxed your mech properly.
Was always a fan of the basic idea of just..... Taking the story of MW 1 through 4 and maybe Mech Commander and just rebuilding that in MW5. The story is there, let go of voice acting, at least mostly, and put the budget into other things.
I'm really glad that I found this review. I thought I was the only one that found this game mediocre absolute best, and somehow associating the effort of the community trying to polish this third as the game originally being good. The only thing that makes this game somewhat okay is the hard work of the dedicated community, not the developers
The thing I loved about that mission in Mechwarrior 4 mercs, with you hitting the convoy over and over until they decided to just ambush YOU instead, was... you could actually win that mission and get the ambushers as salvage. It was hard, and probably wouldn't work unless you'd been saving up and doing other missions beforehand, but it was very doable. In contrast, the most Mechwarrior 5 offers is you sticking around in some missions to get more salvage by killing foes spawning over and over. So much less impact, both in terms of story and how good you actually are. I just replayed Mercs and had a blast of it. Sure, some of the missions were less interesting, but most of them had a story element to them that fit with the lore, had your choices matter and the voice acting actually had direction to it.
@@birthdaytruck Yeah, it doesn't tell you outright you can do it! There's no prompts or whatnot, but I figured as long as I could kill the mechs and they weren't infinitely spawning there was at least a shot at the mission reacting to it. And what do you know! (I don't think it changed up the voice acting much, but the salvage screen got you some different results at least)
MW5 for me is a game I don't mind play but I do mind having to basically rebuild it every time I come back because the updates have broken half a dozen things. What really killed me was the customization. In MW4 I could make a high speed Atlas with half the armor and some good long range weapons as a fire support mech or I could take a Argus strip it down to bare metal and shove a Long Tom on it and one shot light and some medium mechs if I could hit them. I could spend all day experimenting with weapon combos and lay outs, engine sizes, armor types, ammo carried, armor weights, etc... In MW5 I feel much more restricted on what can and can't be put on to a mech besides weight and hardpoint type and that takes a lot of the long lasting fun out of the game.
The problem with MW5 is it's just exceptionally "meh", the most 5 out of 10 game that I can think of. It's not bad, but not really good either. The Battletech video game is definitely vastly better in terms of storytelling, even the Flashpoint campaigns have more going on with them than anything in MW5. Though both games do have similar problems; maps get repetitive (more noticeable BT since they aren't dynamic), difficulty is mostly about throwing more stuff at the player, Heavier mechs are always superior, etc. The problem is MW5 fails to capitalize on it's sandbox aspect. If there was more variety in how mission types play out, more biomes, actually customizing the Mercenary commander, some kind of base building where you would store excess mechs and supplies. It could be so much more. Also would be better if you accepted/negotiated contracts before entering a system, i.e. you have x number of days to reach a system and complete the missions. The actual combat in MW5 is fun, but it's soured by the brain dead A.I. and utter lack of friendly commands. It's also a bit laughable that MW3 had features like mech knockdown, increased cooling from water, more customization in the mech lab, but guess that's too much in 2019. It's like experiencing lostech first hand for real. MW5: Clans looks like it's taken some issues to heart; the map(s) are definitely better looking, squad command are what they should have been. Now it just remains to be seen if the A.I. has pathfinding capabilities. Gonna be hard to take your clanner lancemates seriously if they get stuck in an old ship hull. I'll hope for the best, but basically just expecting MW5 with more bells and whistles.
It’s over 9000!! Great video, seems like we are both on the same wavelength about the lack of imagination, depth & substance in this game.
I'm thrilled to have pulled such a big thought leader into my hour long video, further thrilled that you agreed on the matters, and *wildly* thrilled you approved of my scale factor quote :)))
I need to correct myself: HBS's BattleTech (2018) did NOT include procedural generation. They curated handmade maps of massive scales, and then allowed the game to take smaller squares of that map while generating contracts.
Why didn't they just use that map? Seems some really backwards decisions were commonly made in mw5 development.
I avoided mw online as "online" meant cash grab bollocks, but you make some interesting points about how corrupted mw5 is in that regard.
I've not been invested in MW since MW3 and I have never found anything to scratch that itch. I even skipped 4 as I was just not impressed in the differences, with the graphics looking about the same or worse than MW3.
Now watching your reviews while I wait for MW5 to download as I picked it up from a bargain bin. Sounds like the game is really in the mods though.
I kind of hope that Games Workshop might make a great Titan(mech) based game in the near future. Give a real sense of slow massive scale and tactics etc also having come from a tabletop game.
I have no interest in the armoured core games as they sit half way between MW and Zone of the enders/gundamn. Would rather have it try to mimic reality or commit to being wacky and extreme.
Kamea is the villain in the story as she end her civilization. After revealing her people used mass destruction weapons the greater houses nuked their planet as revenge of using weapons of mass destruction to start a conflict between two houses. Once the pandora's box is open the glove is off. Free for all to invade. Millions of people had already died by the time the game ended and Kamea as regent is responsible for the actions of her people. She used her people to win against her uncle by revealing her people as war criminals.
@@ThisisnotTwitter Games Workshop? Thanks but no thanks.
@@lucassmith4524 Very true, it would have to be them fully trusting their IP to someone who would make a quality game rather than just squeeze as much money as possible, and they are not like that as a company.
One can dream though.
I wish the license for Mechwarrior video games would move from Piranha Games Inc to someone who is more competent. It never ceases to amaze me how passionate modders put companies like PGI to shame when they make improvements that should have been there from the start. The systems that existed in previous Mechwarrior games, the developer can't just skip implementing them. People remember.
tell you what let's see if you can do better, or even think of a studio that you think can do better, good luck with either option, because no matter who does it people are never going to be satisfied and someone like you is always going to bitch about something.
PGI, for misfortune of us all, seems to have the fatal combination of incompetence and arrogance written into their company's culture. Like, first they in their infinite retardation start making a game using CryEngine, and then those shit for brains idiots go ahead and cease-and-desist murder pet-project of CryTek. And after murdering CryTek's pet they have the audacity to start whining and moaning about how CryTek isn't helping them sufficiently with CryEngine.
And the worst thing is, PGI isn't even going to go under despite their continued ineptitude because they're being funded by Canadian tax-dollars.
Having been on the other side of this coin it's simply that the pressures of monetization PLUS the decision-making parties... Just really don't care that much about hitting the lore, scope, scale, and experience bar. They make a series of compromises. It hits the target and they make money. Done.. rinse and repeat. Very predictable.
@@prototypechannel6975 I figured that was the case.
I wish microsoft would just whore it out. There are plenty of capable fans… sure we will get shovel ware, however for every 10 awful games we will recieve a true gem.
On that note, aperently the Wolves game “aka fan made Mechassalt” has been picked up by Microsoft.
_MechWarrior 5: Mercenaries_ turned me off right away with the idea that I'd be playing a _Mercenaries_ game with the bland-boy motivation of avenging my father. Avenging? What happened to the bright side, where I get to keep all the money?
This is a golden comment. I didn't give a rat's ass about my father: he was my in-game father for like 2 whole minutes.
Also, for a mercenaries game whose whole shtick is running a merc company (a 1st person Battletech) it's not very good at that. 3 dozen mechs in a Leopard? How about let me buy more Leopards. How about let me sell those Leopards and buy a Union class.
How about contracting with tankers/VTOl pilots for air support, etc. Where's all the interesting stuff.
They were trying to do the Vengeance route - where we have a named character whose goal is to avenge his father, family, and his planet.
Unfortunately we have nothing to connect with with this character.
With Ian Dresari, the acting was on point and you got to see how and why you were fighting. Every character had motives and interactions which made you bond with them as you progressed.
Then when THAT decision had to be made, your decision had consequences.
The only thing I disliked was the sequel in Black Knight, the game made it so no matter the decision, the outcome was the same - Ian became corrupt and overthrew his sister to the point his Allies joined a resistance against him.
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Here I actually forgot multiple times I was trying to avenge my father against a certain Merc group….after facing 6 different Merc groups.
At this point I’ve been shot at so many times, I’m just yeah it’s part of the job - nothing personal.
So what’s the point of this vengeance? I have no motive….
@@mysticdragonwolf89 ugh, the plot in Vengeance was one of the weakest aspect of that game. Frankly, out of the whole MW4 series of games, only the Mercs provided enjoyable experience. The mear idea of replaying Vengeance and Black Knight just fills me with dread.
PGI announced "MechWarrior 5: Clans" some time ago with a clear focus on nostalgia for the second part with the basis of the narrative about Clan Invasion, as well as with the available description on the project's website: "meticulously designed maps and missions deliver immersive and intracate tactical gameplay and combat experiences.", to which after repeated a recent attempt at vanilla MW5:M there are only doubts about the success of the implementation of such statements. The video is still more than relevant, to our sadness and regret. Thank you for your hard work and we are waiting for the next one.
I have mixed feelings about Mechwarrior 5.
The primary stompy shooty is fun, but everything else is distinctly lacking. On nearly every aspect outside of the mission gameplay I feel HBS BT did far better.
This game has alot of "it would be cool if they just" [blank], alot of missed potential.
I do absolutely feel that there are people within PGI who are passionate and talented with their craft, it just often feels watered down. It feels like a group project where 20 percent of the people involved are passionate and have a vision, and the other 80 are just 'there', and due to poor synergy between the 20 and 80 the overall package ends up bland or unpolished.
The sad thing is, it's still tons of fun at times. Some of the handcrafted missions at the end of HOTIS chains are legit sick that actually require some unique lance building and strategy. And you still manage to feel like a badass when you manage to jump jet and axe a VTOL. It's fun enough to warrant multiple passion-project videos from me.
It is clear that PGI is TRYING (or at least someone within the company is) it just feels that poor management or budgetary constraints weigh it down. I want to play and enjoy it but it's hard to justify at times
I will say that PGI has at least been treating modders a bit better with the Call to Arms DLC, they gave modders access to the new modding tools about a week before the launch so that they have time to fix anything that breaks, I just can't tell if that was a company decision or one guy fighting for the ability to do so.
You've hit it on the head. Stomping around is fun enough - missing charm but competent. MW5 is a fine enough base to do something more with--I think we're all hoping for more.
HBS BT campaign feel like a mediocre 10 years old kid cartoon, but MW5 is even worst. Hyades Rim, mod of HBS BT, is the only one did the job right, though the difficult part is too high.
An hour long PGI hitpiece is exactly what I needed today, after my friend and I found out how bad the co-op system in this game is. Why do co-op games that don't allow both players to progress through the campaign in unison even exist?
What's equally disappointing is that CO-OP gameplay fixes some of the AI deficiencies present. I can't, though, summon the courage to ask friends to buy this game.
As he said the campaign and career modes are very similar, and if I'm not mistaken the best mission variety mod conflicts with the campaign, just play the career mode if you still want to play mw5 after watching this.
There's a mod called COOP Rewards that gives a portion of your salvage to one of your friends campaign/career saves
@@jackodenthal2392 "there's a mod that fixes that" is great and all, but it shouldn't be broken in vanilla
@@birthdaytruck it being available through gamepass makes it easier to stomach
Years ago when PGI was still making a half baked effort with Mechwarrior Online, Russ Bullok coined a phrase... "minimally viable product"... and that's what Mechwarrior 5 seemed to me like it was when it got dumped on epic games store as an exclusive. A lot of original founders from MWO got used to be filled with disappointment at PGI's "talent".
It seems 3 years later it really hasn't passed the point of being a minimally viable product... something that the hardcore fans that are the battletech fan base keeps trying to polish and improve but in the end they are just polishing a turd. Honestly PGI could of done a simple graphical remake of Mechwarrior 4 Mercs and added in a coop game mode and would of had a much much better product.
Such a shame cause I loved the Mechwarrior series... and what's sad is it's likely we'll not get another attempt at a Mechwarrior game for another 17 years now. I'm glad that I have a working copy of MekTeks version of Mechwarrior 4 Mercs on my computer and we have HBS Battletech on steam... Shame HBS seems hell bent against making money and refuses to come out with more content for their great game.
HBS got bought out by Paradox Games, so they aren't calling the shots anymore. Paradox bought them out and then promptly let the title stagnate. I'm pretty sure it was a corporate move meant to kill any competition on the turn-based arena.
That and paradox wanted to push shadowrun instead of battletech.
"minimally viable product" does not originate with russ bullok
Yeah, it's a business concept that comes up a lot in software development. The idea is to create a minimum viable product first, so you have something to ship, then improve it from there.
Great video as always. I'm glad you mentioned how mods have tried desperately to save this hollow game. I've tried to like this game time and time again, but every time I end up disappointed. I was really looking forward to a 4 player coop campaign, but its impossible to recommend 3 other people buy this mess. This video has convinced me to check out Battletech again though.
My introduction to the mechwarrior universe was mechassault 2. I didn't really find out about the mechwarrior series until a few years ago. Mechwarrior online was my first entry into that series. I played at launch, back in 2013, and it didn't really click with me. Fast forward to MW5's release and I was hooked. After a few hundred hours, when it got boring, I role-played to the best of my ability- using only light mechs to assassinate a target and get out with no collateral damage, cheating and making a souped up atlas to defend a base alone as a one man army, the list goes on. Yet no matter how many mods I add, how many roles I assume, It feels empty. I never noticed the lack of story until you pointed it out, because I didn't really even notice the story. I've never played Battletech or an XCOM-like game, but it looks much more enticing now that you've shown off clips. I hope that if there's another entry in this series it's an upgrade, because by god, who doesn't love giant robots? Awesome work again BT, can't wait for the next one!
It is FRUSTRATING that alot of the best fucking Mechwarrior Games are straight up inaccessible without doing some finangling and other shit just to get it to run. Thankfully MechVM Exists (Mechwarrior 2/GBL/MW2 Mercs) along with a slew of other options.
Still, it does feel weird that the license holders aren't doing much with the games they legally have rights too, even just re-releasing them onto something like GoG if not merely just remastering them (Just pretty it up and make it work on MODERN systems, this shouldn't be fucking hard *Cough* ASPYR *COUGH* )
I discovered you recently through your MW videos, and I really enjoy and appreciate them. You communicate very clearly and explain things well. Thanks.
When I was a kid (I'm 30 now), discovering MW4 Mercs through the incredible confusing, convoluted (for me, anyway) free release was a huge moment. It's how I discovered that the Battletech franchise even existed. MW4 Mercs is one of my favorite games ever. I hope we get Mechwarrior stuff approaching that level of detail and quality again. It was made with a lot of love and care.
Your videos on MW definitively describe the state of the series.
I guess I'll have to get the Battletech game you talked about in this video, you make it sound really cool!
Play all the games! I think Battletech is a wonderful and higher quality introduction into the setting. I'm 32, had been playing these games since I was 6, and didn't fully understand the setting until Battletech.
@birthdaytruck Thanks man. Appreciate you.
I agree with every point you made. I end up just replaying MW4+Mercs every so often because of the great amount of joy it brings, but whenever I play MW5 I just feel...so disappointed.
Great review! I never played MW5, only watched vids of it, and yeah that all sounds about right. Paints a really grim picture of this game, quite sad that MW5 is such a linear experience when other games offer so much. When I heard you talking about all the options you have in BattleTech, as well as the implementation of consequences in MW4, I couldn't help but shutter that we got cheated out of such a great experience. It also really makes me sad knowing PGI has exausted probably all the effort they have for this game and after all that still failed to make any substantial improvements. So depressing seeing the IP in the hands of such an inept company.
RIP
Remeber folks, Mech Warrior Living Legends almost died because of PGI.
Great video as always. Its heartbreaking to see the community desperately trying to fix a sinking ship. Theres so much love for this universe, hopefully one day the right company will come along and make the sim we all want.
I don't want to let go of Alex Iglesias's designs, but if it means handing the IP off to Harebrained Schemes or another studio willing to pour their heart out and write some stories, I guess I'd have to consider it.
We've been saying this for the best part of a decade. 😢
I think it would be pretty amazing if all these modders banded together and made a 10x better game than PGI because it’s clear to me PGI is struggling to meet demand and as C Trouble said it’s a sinking ship with a limited amount of hands trying to nail the water out.
@@birthdaytruck HBS shared the exact same models with PGI in a division-of-labor deal: PGI already had all the 'Mech designs, HBS apparently designed most of the vehicles (I think combined arms hadn't been introduced to MWO at that time). It was kind of a neat move, as it standardized those designs across both games.
@@matthewedwards6025 PGI gave all their mech assets + Leopard to HBS. But PGI only used HBS Jumpship model.
After watching your MWO video, I was waiting for this one. Hit the nail on the head.
Fun fact about the cockpit displays in MechWarrior online. The displays inside used to actually display all of the critical components in your Mech and whether or not they were destroyed! This feature was removed from the game a few years after launch for no discernible reason, possibly to improve performance? It's why a lot of the next that we're around from launch have a lot more cockpit displays than the newer ones.
With your love for the Battletech and MechWarrior franchise, I'm surprised you don't put out more on it. You have amazing reviews of both MWO and MW5
I have a Faction Play video I've been toying with. But these videos all become 6 month projects and hour long videos.
oh right
i had forgotten till you mentioned
i really wish trees wouldnt straight up nullify every weapon in the game
ok sure, i can see it blocking a small to medium laser
but it shouldnt just rob all kinetic energy from a gauss or AC20
Fun fact on MW4 animations: Purportedly, a certain set of animations that exist on the Nova Cat, Thanatos and other similar bird leg mechs has an upper cap to the speed they can run at or the legs bug out and fly apart.
Totally agree with your opinions on the mods. I have played probably 200 hours of MW5 and purchased it on launch. It's a love/hate relationship for me. Love the overall experience of gunplay and visuals etc. But the lack of depth and variety (although has been improved) has me yearning for the older titles still. It can be enjoyable. but sometimes that enjoyment feels to be had 'in spite' of the game mechanics rather than 'because' of them.
This video is so insanely good, it lead me to looking into your channel. I really love this kind of in-depth breakdown and content so I hope to see more! Your pacing and script writing are top-notch and not over the top, which I appreciate a lot. I hope to see you post more videos like this on a lot of games and genres, even if they were a fifth the length.
Thank you for your kind words! I'm condensing my next videos as much as possible. These 45 min - 1 hour videos don't seem that enticing for far too many.
what i would love to see in a Battletech/mechwarrior game would be You start off in one of the great house armies, (you would get to pick witch house You would want to start in) then You end up left behind to fend for Yourself. You would have to make do with what You can find a disabled tank here a working vtol there and slowly working You way out of tanks and vtols and into machs and slowly building up a lance of mechs. then as You take on jobs You find Yourself a nice like world and You set up a base and start sending out your mecs out on missions to the point that Your running a full blown mec outfit.
"[...Mods make this game better. Updates break mods...]"
DLC 3 comes out in August. Theoretically, it's the last DLC. Theoretically, that's when mods are "updated finally". I don't believe we'll be seeing MW5 reloaded return, though.
@@birthdaytruck i.e. the one you said is really, really good. 😢
I'll be honest, if you'll allow. I did manage to notice some of these things, but it's never really bothered me too much. Call me a shortsighted brain-dead consumer all you want, but I genuinely love the game. I never felt like nitpicking too much, because generally, if I have a good experience with a game, my opinion of the game will be good. I don't try to nitpick all of the small details of a game, which would probably ruin my perception of the game. But I'm glad you're doing it, because this stuff is what most people other than myself are really looking for in these types of games. And I think that your review is incredibly informative and will help countless people choose whether or not to play the game. Keep up the great, honest reviews.
This is the most professional comment I've read in a while. I largely agree: you *can* enjoy MW5. The core stompy shoot is fun enough, and there's enough mix and match motivation to keep going. PGI could have told a better story with simpler means, and it's a shame we didn't get that. PGI could have also *really* fleshed out fun technical bits and pieces, and it's a shame we didn't get that.
Someone else phrased it, albeit rather depressingly, better than I: MWO will probably shut down soon, and it's not an IP that brings in enough money to revive it. At the very least, we'll have a neat-o MW5 mix and match game to putz around in for the long haul.
Thanks for the reminder you made this video with mods in mind. Ya the biggest problems are those patches that destroy mod compatibility. I never understood that when games kinda turn dependant on mods to survive why they do not have a better communication to their modders. Making lists of changes specifically to modders. Give big mods the possibility to request features they have problems implementing via mods or are impossible.
Most of that was just growing pains between what the game/editor supported and how the community knew to build mods, honestly. Last few patches have barely needed updates to mods other than repacking to get the "out of date" warning to go away. Heck, this last patch had a bunch of features modders requested in the editor opened up. We do have a channel on the official discord to chat with PGI folks about the editor issues we run into.
@@yrrot7 Then it's fine. I'm quite scarred of many game developers lacking the ability to understand what makes the game being able to survive and grow.
@@yrrot7 some of the mods i use were deactivated with the latest patch, I simply re-activated them and they run just fine, so the changes made weren't game breaking.
The thing I like is the multiple factions and the galaxy access we have.
Story wise - I agree. We can not form a base emotional attachment to the MC as it supposed to be. This is due to lack of anything we can connect - we can’t self insert.
While in vengeance we couldn’t either, it was the actors who sold the story of why we should be committed.
I really hate the place where we spawn in the hanger and force us to walk to our XO…especially when THATS all we can explore in our dropship.
Hell in drops ships I thought we’d get those circular ones…
If by circular ones you mean the larger Spheroid (Union, Hrothgar, etc) ones, then YES. A single leopard never made sense to hold the dozens of 'mechs you collect.
There actually was a spheroid dropship in the early, early MW5 sneak peak/demo. Wish it was still there.
@@birthdaytruck Especially when you have over 50 in cold storage…where is this cold storage?
@@birthdaytruck I just found a mod that replaces the ship with a Union Orbital dropship - with interstellar travel model replacer, deployment, and interior design
It works with other mods too
@@birthdaytruck I found another mod that works with the Union dropship replacer.
It arms the dropship with several PPC, Large lasers, 2 Guass, 2 AC per wing (that shotgun weapon) and 1 LRM
Now the drop ship has justifiable weapons
I engaged god mode and parked near the landing zone and watched for 20 minutes as the drop ship absolutely destroyed waves of mechs, tanks, and helis- definitely recommend
Meanwhile im just glad to have a fucking mechwarrior game after almost 2 decades. You do of course raise alot of valid points dont get me wrong here.
I'm also glad to have something after 2 decades. The older games are hard to run. I just wish there was some more direction in the game.
Man this was an absolutely stellar video! The audio design and quality was very nice, and the editing brought the whole thing together so well. I started with MW5 and Battletech, and even if I only had YAML, I find MW5 to be a fun game to play with a friend after getting home from work. To completely honest, I’m 75% there for the raw mechanics of tweaking, optimizing, and creating the craziest, strongest and most broken builds possible with very small and very big mechs. In all, I got here for the game, stayed because of the mods and friends, and really appreciate your honest input and effort you put out onto UA-cam for all of us. Bravo.
You're hitting on an important point, here: creating builds in MechWarrior is 90% of the allure. I spend so much god darn time on the MechDB website theorycrafting 'mechs.
For those wondering, the mod list used during the creation of this video includes:
1. ADC Ballistics
2. Enhanced Hud with advanced zoom (no longer functional) - or 3D HUD WITH ADV ZOOM (no longer functional) - or "Advanced Zoom" by Bobbert Moddert
3. Better Spawns by Troopermaniac
4. Source HD Texture by Lt47
5. Better Lighting in Mech Hangar and operations & better lighting on bridge by Sankara Samsara
6.Improved Mech Shader by lt47
7. PGI_Infantry by PGImw5mods
8. Repair Bays by Bobbert Moddert
9. TTRuelz_AIMod2 & TTRuelz_LanceMateOrderz
10. Von Biomes
11. Yet Another Mech Lab
12. (dependant) MW5: Reloaded
13. Coyotes Mission Pack
14. Weather Improvement Mod (mostly now already in vanilla game)
I never noticed the hip displacement specifically until this video, but I did notice the PGI mechs in motion look quite stiff. It just doesn’t seem right compared to how battlemechs are described in action in the fiction.
I find myself wishing arms, at least ones with elbows, had a “safe” or “neutral” position that let them move more like a persons arms move as they walk or run and then a separate “ready” position that brought them into a fighting position, assuming they have weapons.
Staggers and knockdowns would be a nice touch. For example, if you’re sprinting downfield in something like a Griffin and you take an AC/20 to the shoulder, simulating the impact by momentarily taking the torso out of position (more than a simple screen shake) and forcing a small alteration to the mech’s heading. It doesn’t go down on its ass, but it gives a feeling that the mechs equilibrium was disrupted and the pilot and gyro brought it back before it toppled over. Bonus pints if, again, the arms are involved. Mechs are functionally tanks on legs, but even machines as big as the Victor are never described as being stiff or rigid in a fight.
I'm pretty sure that HBS's Battletech didn't have procedurally-generated maps. At least, I got that impression from UA-camrs who have thousands of hours in the game and can recognize the map and the enemy tactics as soon as they drop in.
I double checked: you're right. They're not procedurally generated, but the system HBS implemented produced an enormous variety of maps.
forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/battle-map-randomly-generated.1083919/
"secret" mission, then your dropship flies over the objective. I would like to send my lance to a spot on the overview map, or set way points. What Lance commander is going to take 4 mechs and wade head long into 16-30 others (no matter what size)? I would like to see the game develop a need to strategize versus the Steiner Scout lance way of doing things. Great Vid!
Great video! Very comprehensive and detailed criticism that's spot on. I'm having a difficult time motivating myself to even finish the MW5 campaign. I'm thinking of giving HBS' Battletech another run through instead.
After I finish a video, I begin uninstalling the games I used to gather footage. I uninstalled MW5 and Fallout 4, for example, but I left BattleTech alone.
@@birthdaytruck then all you did was make a video to trash a company to fuel your ego.
Let me remind you why I'm about to uninstall the thing. The chugging load screens and menus. HBS can't code for shit.
@@michaelbaker8284 Yes, some things could've been better. But considering this was all done on the original Kickstarter campaign of about $2.8M, it's not too bad.
Here's a very simple example that illustrates how lifeless MW5 is compared to it contemporaries:
In Battletech (2018) I would really bad when a member of my mech company would die. In MW5, I often wouldn't even notice that one of my people died until I tried to start the next mission and noticed a vacancy in one of the slots. Both games fill your roster with randomly generated characters. Battletech actually made them feel like characters.
Needless to say, that was also true with the old MechWarrior games. Hell, in MW3, I felt a strong comradery with the Mobile Field Base guy and he was just the one who briefed you and drove around in a giant box truck. But, he was an actual character. There was personality to him. He felt like an older coworker who was stuck in the same mess with you.
Battletech, like XCOM, had some weight behind squadmate deaths.
Now it really sucks in CAMPAIGN if you're not doing Co-Op and you just don't get any new recruits...at all. So you're just stuck with yourself and Freeman for quite some time (This can REALLY SUCK when doing certain missions when the enemy just decides 'I'ma dump 2 Heavies on you, oh lemme add a coupla lights, lemme hit you with a fucking WOLVERINE, etc' as if the AI Director thinks you can consistently hit Cockpit shots all the fuckin' time.
Just, watching this video, I'm reminded how I played.. maybe the first couple campaign missions before i gave up, modded the shit out of it, and just stuck to the sandbox mode. I kinda forgot about that, because the beginning of the story was so forgettable that I didn't even remember that the game had one until it was brought up.
Very well done, Sir. I truly hope someone high up in PGI has seen this, has taken it to heart, and is making adjustments for future games.
Vanilla MW5 feels completely lifeless to me (I haven't played MW5 in a year or more, and haven't tried mods, but might revisit if they aren't still broken). Mostly though, I'm just looking forward to much improved improved games. Hopefully a better Clans, MW6, etc.. I'll likely be disappointed again, but there's always hope. 🤞
I would say that the tactics component of the game is not just a problem of mechwarrior 5, but many a games with AI companions or strategy games that rely on some level of AI. A framework for which the AI component of a game can be exposed to players for them to control or setup would be appreciated and a great mechanic. The best I have seen is in a little game called istrolid, where the AI menu allows you to script how the AI acts when you are not taking care of it. More games need this, and it would probably help the devs make good AI for a game
The one in armored core 5 (I don't remember if it was in the og or just verdict day) for your AI ally was fucking amazing
Also glad I found this. While I enjoy this game especially when its heavily modded, I also found alot of things missing with this especially with the sound ambiance, the mercenary experience outside combat missions, and the single player story. Great noticing details like the 1st person and 3rd person movement animations arent in sync. This video nailed everything I felt missing playing this game especially with wanting alot of Battletech's merc management features present in this game.
I'm glad the review represented what you felt. I'll probably, once all the mods are compatible again, do another review with all the DLC later down the line.
Man, that's straight in the nail you hit here, I know this is a year old VIdeo, I just listened to the whole video while working and I can fully agree with all off this. I was wishing so much for Mechwarrior 5, I even pre ordered, been a fan of the franchise for a long time.
the only thing that keeps me coming back to the game is the mods, the mods make the game actually enjoyable. but yeah, it still lacks a lot, would be great to see this game taken to another studio who would care and rebuild the game to what Mech fans want, but let's be honest, that is mostly wishful thinking
Is PGI done updating the game yet? I’d like to try out MechWarrior 5 without having to worry about any more of these mods being broken.
NAILED! THANK YOU.
Especially the part about "cash grab", because it is.
Also, mod really did make this game.
I hope to mod this game someday as I have some ideas not touched upon.
Hey, I just wanna come back and say... There's a massive mod renaissance going on right now in MW5. I'm even helping to distill co-op bug workarounds to their essence with others :)
E.g. YAML and Scary Tanks are back!
PGI "...but were a technical studio!" Microsoft Game Studios *"Hold my Har-gel!"*
MW4: Mechs feel heavy and the difference between light scout and full assault is massive. MWO/MW5: Every mech is a stabilised speed demon cutting weaponry to go fast... Also MWO/MW5: I was written by a Steiner obsessed with speed...
I think 'mech feel is subjective, but I tend to agree. MW4's 'mechs felt heavy perhaps because the animations were more representative. Movement, especially, provided a definitive "acceleration" surge from stationary. MW5 and MWO mechs tend to accelerate at a linear speed.
@@birthdaytruck Hmm, not sure I agree with that. MW 4's mechs felt almost floaty to me. An unpopular opionion that I hold is that MW3, not 4, is the high point of the games, the mechs felt right and the sim aspects were front and center, plus the breifings were fantastic. MW4 felt like a arcade shooter to me.
I disagree, in MW5 mechs feel very slow and slugish to me. Because of that and mostly because of how flat most maps are, it's very hard if not impossible to take cover.
Dumb AI is also a big reason for this, many battles happen in open terrain with enemy and friendly mechs clashing into each other.
The lack of control of AI companions makes me often wish to play the missions solo, but then you get swarmed with infinit enemy spawns in some missions.
Mech control in MWO feels alot more precise, and MWO maps usually have more verticality. It was gameplay wise alot better, atleast when I played it many years ago.
MW5 is unplayable without mods
Merctech makes the game actually feel like mechwarior. More time to kill, loads of C-bill expenses even ammo consumption!
I mean it is hardly unplayable, it is a much poorer game without them but it is still a functional game.
What mods did you recommend
My first ever Mech game was MechWarrior 2; i've played MechAssault 1 and 2 and haven't played any other Mech game sense MechWarrior 5 came out on gamepass and i bought the game outright just because it was the series i've loved for over many decades. honestly the way 2 gave so much freedom of fun; over "forced choice" of having to legitimately use specifics I.E Catapault-C1 where it's got 2 large missle bays; and 4 medium laser bays.... but the fact that there's almost no room to fit all armor; a decent amount of ammo; and a nice weapon system without sacrificing so much. I know mechs are supposed to be supported like people with good compesition; but these are Mech models almost 500; if not over 600 years old; and people somehow can't take the old models that pre date the golden age of mechs? you just say that a data core of knowledge of Table of Contents is just gone and somehow i'm supposed to agree with that?
This is why I have over 700 hours in BATTLETECH and only 100 in MECH 5 MERCS
I completed MW4 Mercs so many times. I couldn't be arsed to complete MW5 as the busy-work with destroyed weapons and such just did my head in.
mw5 has like 4 curated missions that are the worst/most blant missions in mw4 xD
What really breaks the immersion for me is the salvage and shop system, You can sell anything to any shop and they have unlimited cash. There is no risk in taking salvage over cash, and your unlimited cargo space makes it a no brainer. I would like the salvage to make sense, make it so you can bring salvage vehicles and salvage crews if it is a smash and run. And give you the pick on the field if you control the battlefield after the battle. The salvage gets balanced If your storage space is limited and that the buyers of mechs and weapons have limited cash.
It should take some effort to find somebody willing to buy 20 locust legs
@@Andrewlik maybe KFC?
You know the worst part? One of the things mentioned in the video in passing: missions feel like instant action with some dealogue slapped on them. The core of the game is strategy and this game leaves it on the dustbin.
That's my video in a sentence: MW5 feels like instant action with some dialogue slapped on.
I like mechwarrior 5 as an afterwork break
I play for a two hours and get some fun
Its calm enough but has enough robot smashing i dont pass out in my chair
finally, so glad you keep making videos. i havent watched this video yet(only beginning) and i would recommend advice for next videos. dont make such harsh claims in introduction, because you havent made any arguments yet. if someone really likes mechwarrior 5, they would already be opposed to your video. it should be more like "lets figure out together what is wrong/right about this game". i dont mean to sound arrogant its just my feedback.
This is good feedback, and something I debated with myself. I feel so strongly about this title, but I've amended the title to be more diplomatic.
I appreciate the harsh introduction. Mechwarrior 5 deserves it.
Hi, Noone - judging from feedback in a certain subreddit, your suggestion that the title was too harsh was correct. I read several comments that said "I'm not clicking on that" because they felt the title told the entire story.
I'm not super happy with folk judging the book on the cover, but that's the game. I appreciate the suggestion.
Mechwarrior 4 is my childhood, and its awesome and all the expansions too. Cinematic for Vengeance was amazing
I miss the live action scenes from vengeance
Despide everything cool about this video one scene hit me. The Argus.
I. Want. The. Argus.
The Argus' son is in Helldivers 2. The Exosuit is essentially a tiny Argus.
Honest, thorough and accurate review. Nice work.
Thank you for video. Just started to play, modified game with MercTech with several additional mods and already finding first 3 solo prologue mission too linear for player, basic things like System Jumps, Mech Market and Hire Pilots are closed which reducing abilities for player to solves that missions. While MW4 Mercs gives you ability to configure your campaign from start and select course with playstyle. Looked about other works Directors of MW5 Mercs and more or less everything gets in one picture unfortunately.
yes, i already love the first 5 minutes, so many of my complaints highlighted
You pretty much nailed all of my feelings regarding mechwarrior 5. It's a real shame it turned out this way, but even in spite of that i had some enjoyment. I can only hope things get better.
I'm happy my points were received well, but I'm sad that my points exist.
Babe wake up, Birthday Truck just uploaded.
MW5 is one of my favorite PC games ever since I started playing on PC. It's just a shame that it's sorta kinda shite.
And I've heard on a consistent basis now is that MW3, 4 & 4 Mercs are not only better representations and examples of
the IP and genre but are also wholly & categorically superior video games (disregarding their age to an extent).
It's just so depressing & discouraging that I or my future kids will never be able to play them.
As for HBS BT, for as long as I've played video games, turn-based grid-based strategy games (Xcom-likes basically) have
always been my most hated video game genre, only rivaled by my distaste of rougelikes. In spite of that tho, I fully concur
that it's currently best modern MW/BT video game that can still be bought, and for all the points you reason.
You can try to MechWarrior Quadrology - MW4 runs just fine. Windows Defender flagged something in the file, but I can't find any evidence supporting malicious nature.
I recommend you try out MW4. There are videos on UA-cam with links and download instructions. It will blow your mind after MW5.
@@birthdaytruck I've done some research for MW4. I've known about MW Quadrology and MekTek but
from my internet sloothing, my only conclusion is that both Quad & MekTek have been entirely purged from
the internet.
And as far as I know the original CD/DVD ROM's don't run on modern windows anymore as well, so
not even ebay can help.
@@toasterdudel8080 Yea. UA-cam guides were my first attempt too. But all the ones I watched were to suspicious or inconsistent with one and other to be trustworthy to try the links.
At the moment MW5 + YAML, TTRulez, 330's & BobbertModdert has been as satisfactory as I can hope for. :)
@@toasterdudel8080 yeah it will blow their mind how badly it can be hacked thru various methods so people can cheat their asses off and you can't do a damn thing about it.
My biggest issue with MW5 is that I have to have a mod to to get the detailed mechlab, for a "technical studio" to cut the technical aspect of battletech really rustles my jimmies.
Good video. Overall I agree with the general sentiment, but I do think that in its current state, at its current price, the game is a decent buy even in its unmodded, vanilla state. That said, I agree that the original asking price for the original release state of the game was far less acceptable.
A few notes, however:
*Better Spawns basically has been implemented into the core game already. Spawns aren't as far out as in Better Spawns, but AI in the base game that doesn't spawn by drop ship will almost always spawn from the edge of the map, and never within the player's line of sight (including directions the player isn't looking).
*For the last little while, PGI has been allowing modders preview access to new game builds so that they can release updates concurrently with new build releases. All of my mods had new compatible versions released alongside Call to Arms.
That’s a tremendous note of progress, and something I want the commenters to see and hear!
Thats something I noticed from when I first played the game was that I was getting swarmed from nowhere by tanks and stuff especially when trying to do demolition missions. No longer.
I think the extra mechs are stored in that jumpship (which might be related to interstellar expeditions) cos the bloody thing follow the main character into the unknown regions during the campaign
Fantastic summary for why Mechwarrior 5 is a huge tragedy. The combat and mech customization (after modding) are absolutely fantastic - but the dumb AI, lack of player "creativity" and all encounters kind of feeling the same absolutely ruin it. It's so strange to me that on the campaign map absolutely nothing ever changes. Initially I expected something like a mount & blade light where your actions in the warzones would result in a dynamic shift of territory, power and missions....but it literally doesn't matter what you do. The entire point of the game is to get money to buy bigger mechs to do the same mission but with more braindead enemies attacking you. It's depressing - the game could have been so much more.
I've had a look at the mod tools to see if I could make some more mission types and spice things up - the mod tools are an absolute mess. I think it must be the procedural generation system they use that results in modding being a huge pain - no wonder we don't have more than Coyote's mission pack so far. I gave up eventually.
Again, thanks for making the video Birthday Truck. I was going to make one for Mechwarrior 5 as well but honestly I think you've said everything. I don't think we can expect anything to change with the game either...and unfortunately mods won't save this one.
On another note: I'm curious what your process is like to make these long analysis-style essays. I'm trying to make one for Pathologic 2 now but I'm struggling to organise it properly and build it up. I also have ADHD which doesn't help. I figured I'd ask you if you could tell me a bit about how you approach a topic and organize your thoughts - maybe I could learn a thing or two! If you're comfortable, could you add me on Discord? [DELETED]#[DELETED] (or my community discord discord.gg/MdszAPKnqc)
You've been a very supportive and active fan, Carbon. I'm happy to chat about my process - I've actually got some semblance of it written down. I'll also tell you what I wouldn't do again based on these videos.
You summed up my complaints better than I: "The entire point of the game is to get money to buy bigger mechs to do the same mission but with more braindead enemies attacking you. It's depressing - the game could have been so much more".
I'm envious I couldn't just say that.
I simply cannot fathom, nor forgive, the atrocious animations on the mechs. The animations in Mechwarrior 2 were better! Some people may not have liked how nimble the mechs were in Mechwarrior 4, but there is no denying the animation was top tier. Mechwarrior 3 really nailed the feel of 75 ton war machines running gracefully at 100kph. Compare that to Mech5 where they had to use different pacing when inside the cockpit vs outside it. Trying really hard to call it anything other than lazy.
12:14 I always assumed that in the age of mechs, they'd have developed new metals and alloys that could be larger, but lighter.
I was tempted to make a video on Mechwarrior 5 as I found all the reviews lacklustre. But you have stated everything that I wished to in the depth that I wanted it addressed. I love and hate this game. With Mods it's it's so much fun. But the missions are unremarkable in singleplayer. The one thing I would add is that I do not believe that Comstar would allow the player merc company to delve as deep into the conspiracy as they do. I would have really liked it if you had to worry about crew leaving because who wants to fuck with Comstar. Or if you had a point of no return, where you are offered the chance to walk away and take on other contracts, or you can keep digging to get the truth but pay with a battle that you could not win. Comstar have killed planets in the past to obtain or destroy data, why tolerate these mercs?
Excellent video, well researched and presented, definately deserves more views than it has. Hopefully it makes its way to the developers so they can use this constructive criticism to either improve it.
i really wanted to like MW5 as a base game... i wish battletech, MW5, and MekHQ just combined to make one beautiful battletech super game
I think you *can* like MW5 as a base game: you can enjoy the mechanics of shooting other 'mechs. I think it's hard to "love" MW5 like we all loved MW2 - MW4.
I love how when I'm looking to buy a mech they give an icon that says 'You need to kill these for a side quest !!!' but can't put that same icon on the crap you need to buy for the side quests.
this is great material and i 100% support this! Also this shows to console players that our PC mods are not CHEATS! this is new experience of this same game, this is like much better DLC (even music changing mod i changing you experience during play and it is fun). Also this mods are evolving - YAML was totally different year ago, so every big change of that mechanics (for example salvage 2.0) gives me oportunity to start career AGAIN and AGAIN! :)
My solution for updates -if i hear about them, i am turning airplane mode in my MW5 laptop and i am playing offline until moders release new updates of they mods:)
The mods have fixed most of the feature gaps. What I crave now is storytelling.
Also: Nexus still holds old version of mods for downloads. IF you can hold off on releases, you can absolutely keep going.
Battletech is my favorite fictional universe, and it's only my love for the franchise that keeps me attached to this game- and even I struggle to stick with it for long periods of time. Battletech 2018 was a masterpiece and hit all of the right notes for me, except that I grew up playing Mechwarrior 2 and then jumped to Mechwarrior 4 and want that first-person mech simulator experience. Like you said, there are just no other feasible alternatives out there right now. I desperately want to be able to keep jumping into this universe and play solid, compelling games in a world that's so ripe for exploring but the same 'my dad died so I inherited the mercenary company and now I'm going to blow stuff up' story over and over again is just so sad at this point. For now, I mostly just play it on the Xbox (I know it's inferior) and treat it like a quick arcade shooter to play a game or two, but that won't hold me over for another 17 years. It's crazy to me how a fan base this dedicated and passionate, albeit small, can keep getting stomped on and kicked around and somehow still keep the franchise afloat 40 years later
“This game won’t hold me for another 17 years” speaks to the quality of prior installments. Powerful summary.
@@birthdaytruck thanks for the thorough analysis of the game- would love any any and all Battletech/Mechwarrior retrospective content. MW4 to me was so iconic that no matter how MW5 turned out, I would probably have been disappointed. Something about MW5 never really sat right with me from day one and I think you nailed all of the issues on the head
Great video. Well articulated, and explained points.
I love the game. I can't bring myself to play it without MercTech. It's a gigantic overhaul to the entire game.
Is MercTech better than YAML?
The first time I opened the game and played the campaign only to nearly immediately be dumped on a procedurally generated map, I knew it was over.
The problem is not with their appearance as such, it's with the fact that it totally destroys any sort of mission pacing and turns everything into a giant arena match. In MW4 (and all other MW games) you would proceed *through* a map to accomplish an objective, and encounter the enemy attempting to stop you.
for most SP MW5 missions (I admit I didn't spend long on the game) you seem to be in a central little bowl of an area and have wave after wave of enemy combatants be dropped upon you, or even just teleported into existence once your back is turned. It's frustrating.
Well said. It's wave defense in a bowl.
Hey, I’m still enjoying the game so far for the most part, but I can see how it could get old and I recognize some of the things it’s missing.
I think you’re mostly correct here, and I applaud you for at least being fair and constructive in your criticism. You acknowledge when the game is doing something right, which some critics won’t allow when they’re criticizing a title they don’t like.
Based on your recommendation, I may go back and try out Battletech, too. (FWIW, I’ve played MW2 back in the ‘90s, MW3, both MechAssaults on the original XBox, MWO, and I’ve listened to a Mechwarrior universe audio book on UA-cam. So, I’m no noob to the series by any means, but I haven’t kept up with it as much as I could over the past two decades. :/
Btw is there a mod to pipe in the entire Mechwarrior 2 soundtrack while I’m playing Mechwarrior 5? Mechwarrior 2 soundtrack from all the way back in 1995 has always absolutely slapped in my book, and has never been bested in any of the subsequent games. If you disagree, I challenge you to solo combat!
There are several music mods, yes: I used "MechWarrior Music Medley" by Timberwulf518.
I would love to argue that MW3's soundtrack was better, but it only had two songs :(
not having at least some curated missions really hurt, it was because of curated missions that made you develop strategies and tactics in MW4, i remember several times where i would force myself to take a long roundabout route to the objective or navpoint because i remember theres particular forward scouting forces or base defenses that i dont want to engage or i forcibly engage them earlier than a scripted ambush
The procedural missions need a little curation. Right now, it's really just walk to point a, destroy 29 enemies, and leave. I need some spice.
I can comment about the sabot rounds producing sparks; in most BT settings the AC's fire a HEAP [High explosive armor piercing] round, however I'm being nitpicky and all your points are on point. Modern mechwarrior games are almost there but the small details en masse keep it from the potential it could have on a macro-scale
Ah - then PGI may have been correct. I maintain, though, that MWO renders ballistics as APFS-DS darts.
Frankly, the best thing about MW5 is that I can pretend to be on an incredible Mercenary campaign with my brother at the helm, and my dad at my side in 4 player coop. We don't have a 4th player though, and I have to pretend pretty hard. At least the banter between the 3 of us drowns out ryana's terrible exposition and the enemies irritating screams of agony and cries for help. I do like it when they exclaim in shock at their failings, after their mechs have gone critical.
I had a feeling co-op would alleviate a lot of the game's shortcomings.
@@birthdaytruck absolutely, but frankly, even the worst games are fun with friends. Unrelated, but there is no feeling quite like going 129 kmph in a melee banshee with masc and supercharger to obliterate most mechs in 1 shot
Nailed it again - another brilliant video. Awesome work!
Pretty sure a few of the listed missing features are on the game? There are environmental heat effects, Torso lock + free arm, zoom, collisions/charging, and night vision. I agree could use flood lights and a rear view mirror though. On 'mech fall-down, have any of the mech warrior games had fall down? That would really raise the immersion.
Some features may have made it in between writing the script and now. The torso/arm lock is specific to how MW3 did it, and I’m being picky.
Environmental heat effects have been in the game since the Heroes of the Inner Sphere DLC so this script must have been a long time coming.
Oh, and MW4 had mech knockdowns. It made stacking LB-X cannons or LRMs exceptionally powerful.
Also I think the video was referencing heat vision, not night vision; The game has had night vision since launch.
@@michaelmorrison5280 I recall ARROW IV systems were particularly fun knockdown weapons.
13:33 Spear's voice (actor) sounds just like Adam Jensen from my favorite yellow and black immersive Sim series
I can deal with a flawed game if it has some style, some character, but Mechwarrior 5 is devoid of any personality.
Also, Battletech really felt great to play from the start. Sure, you were moving towards Assault mechs eventually, but on the road there it actually felt good to play with every class of mech, tooling them out and whatnot.
I agree. There were also enough mission types to breakaway from 4 King Crab lances.
I found myself still using 55 ton cav units through to the endgame for rear hits and finishing blows.
What mods are works and must have in December 2023??
i'd say vonbiomes, coyote's mission packs, 330's pilot overhaul are essential.. cockpit glass, in the pit, mechtech camera are fun. yet another mechlab changes the game significantly
you are totally right and now i am bummed you all over again-- i forgot all the awesome missions MW4 had and PGI had the chance to make it way better and they blew it,
Ooooof... This is tough... I want to watch this immediately, but I also have a twelve hour shift I need to burn time during tomorrow...
...
Screw it, instant gratification for the win.
PGI can't seem to be able to make a Mechwarrior game to save their life.
I'll be fair: they've made competent games. What's missing is art, direction, and love.
I'sm still hoping that there will be mini missions in between where you actually get out of a mech.. (perhaps afre tour mech is shot you get out. avoid guards and what not) and maybe steal a tank or fast vehicle travel around base go to hangar steal a other mech xD or maybe a prototype .. id love that if we could get out and do a bit more ! or just wonder off around a friendly base with interactive npc's
13:36 looks like that hologram *never asked for this*
Fair points all.. I hope they do a better job next time or sell it to someone who can.
This is one of those games that only succeed not because they are great, but because everything else in their niche is either worse or really old.
I remember listening in to the pre release AMA sessions intended to build hype. The amount of times Russ Bullock said "Modders will fix that" (sometimes literally, I am not kidding) when he explaining how barebones the effort was for MW5 left me enraged. I was among first in line for a refund when the Epic games debacle hit and I did not return until it was deeply discounted.
So long as there's that much apathy at the top, PGI will never produce anything good.
A great analysis and all the reasons why I've avoided MW5.
MechCommander has been, for me at least, the most over all immersive BattleTech experience. The criticality of scouting; the watching of patrol patterns; being able to decide when and where to attack an installation, patrol or turret battery. The manic panic to try and intercept enemy reinforcements so you can defeat them in detail before they coalesce into one large unstoppable force. Some missions took hours to finish as you scouted, maneouvred, and then executed your plan to achieve the objective. You got useful briefings and a USEABLE briefing map, I miss the live-action elements.
Plus, no mech felt useless nor was taking the heaviest mechs always the best option; I almost exclusively had 1 light mech/lance, supported by medium and/or heavy mechs. Yes, mech customization was a bit wonky, but you could design any mech for any purpose you had the components for. Creativity was not discouraged; why yes, I think I will load 5 lrms onto my Firestarter J.
Now the loop is: go straight to the nearby waypoint and start blasting in a mission that at most takes 20 minutes if you are bad at aiming or haven't min-maxed your mech properly.
Was always a fan of the basic idea of just.....
Taking the story of MW 1 through 4 and maybe Mech Commander and just rebuilding that in MW5.
The story is there, let go of voice acting, at least mostly, and put the budget into other things.
I'm really glad that I found this review. I thought I was the only one that found this game mediocre absolute best, and somehow associating the effort of the community trying to polish this third as the game originally being good. The only thing that makes this game somewhat okay is the hard work of the dedicated community, not the developers
The thing I loved about that mission in Mechwarrior 4 mercs, with you hitting the convoy over and over until they decided to just ambush YOU instead, was... you could actually win that mission and get the ambushers as salvage. It was hard, and probably wouldn't work unless you'd been saving up and doing other missions beforehand, but it was very doable.
In contrast, the most Mechwarrior 5 offers is you sticking around in some missions to get more salvage by killing foes spawning over and over. So much less impact, both in terms of story and how good you actually are.
I just replayed Mercs and had a blast of it. Sure, some of the missions were less interesting, but most of them had a story element to them that fit with the lore, had your choices matter and the voice acting actually had direction to it.
I actually had no idea you could stick through that mission and salvage something. I always followed the on-screen prompts!
@@birthdaytruck Yeah, it doesn't tell you outright you can do it! There's no prompts or whatnot, but I figured as long as I could kill the mechs and they weren't infinitely spawning there was at least a shot at the mission reacting to it. And what do you know! (I don't think it changed up the voice acting much, but the salvage screen got you some different results at least)
MW5 for me is a game I don't mind play but I do mind having to basically rebuild it every time I come back because the updates have broken half a dozen things.
What really killed me was the customization. In MW4 I could make a high speed Atlas with half the armor and some good long range weapons as a fire support mech or I could take a Argus strip it down to bare metal and shove a Long Tom on it and one shot light and some medium mechs if I could hit them. I could spend all day experimenting with weapon combos and lay outs, engine sizes, armor types, ammo carried, armor weights, etc...
In MW5 I feel much more restricted on what can and can't be put on to a mech besides weight and hardpoint type and that takes a lot of the long lasting fun out of the game.
The problem with MW5 is it's just exceptionally "meh", the most 5 out of 10 game that I can think of. It's not bad, but not really good either.
The Battletech video game is definitely vastly better in terms of storytelling, even the Flashpoint campaigns have more going on with them than anything in MW5. Though both games do have similar problems; maps get repetitive (more noticeable BT since they aren't dynamic), difficulty is mostly about throwing more stuff at the player, Heavier mechs are always superior, etc.
The problem is MW5 fails to capitalize on it's sandbox aspect. If there was more variety in how mission types play out, more biomes, actually customizing the Mercenary commander, some kind of base building where you would store excess mechs and supplies. It could be so much more. Also would be better if you accepted/negotiated contracts before entering a system, i.e. you have x number of days to reach a system and complete the missions. The actual combat in MW5 is fun, but it's soured by the brain dead A.I. and utter lack of friendly commands. It's also a bit laughable that MW3 had features like mech knockdown, increased cooling from water, more customization in the mech lab, but guess that's too much in 2019. It's like experiencing lostech first hand for real.
MW5: Clans looks like it's taken some issues to heart; the map(s) are definitely better looking, squad command are what they should have been. Now it just remains to be seen if the A.I. has pathfinding capabilities. Gonna be hard to take your clanner lancemates seriously if they get stuck in an old ship hull. I'll hope for the best, but basically just expecting MW5 with more bells and whistles.