Jason thank you for the info .im 57 and haven't raced dirt in 35 years .been doing the mid am stuff but my passion is for dirt .you my man have started a fire that can't be put out .im looking for a build again. Oh my wife says thanx jason
Hell Yeah Bill👍🏁🔥!!!!! 57 is young!!! I know there's alot of Big Block Modified drivers that are in their 60's. Billy Pauch for example. Also at my local track in Pennsylvania I know of a few guys that are in their early 60's that run late model and UMP mods. You're only as old as you think you are. Go for it!!!
Really appreciate how transparent you are with the info in a sport that transparency isn’t in the racing dictionary. Anyone just getting started in the sport, these videos are a GOD send. Newcomers will get discouraged and quit and the sport needs to grow or it dies; Something for us all to keep in mind.Thank you for all your info and help. Keep em coming!!!
I’ve literally helped a race team change out shocks and set ride heights, these people were friends of the family, and I learned more from this video than I did them. Some of the best content on the internet right here. Well done. Keep it up sir
@@DIRTRACELIFE it's great racing over here if you get the chance you should check it out! I've always wanted to come to America to watch speedway or even have a drive there to compare the cars and tracks
Awesome video love that you didn’t try to hide anything the better everyone gets the better the racing will be you seem like the type of guy that if someone at the track was struggling and ask if you had any pointers you wouldn’t bs them and help out tracks need more guys like you can’t wait till your metric car is done and you do a setup video on it keep up the good work
Good instructional illustration. We run at Batesville Motor Speedway in Arkansas. We have to run 3200. It's a high bank 3/8 miles. We like to run more left rear because of the momentum that the track promotes. We don't slow much in the corners . I get a lot of information from your content. Keep up the good work.
@@DIRTRACELIFE they are running Arkansas factory stocks which are mainly metric cars. The leaf cars can't stay up. So we have a separate class for the called hobby stock. Basically the same rules as FS but leaf springs only. Also they are running the IMCA stock cars. Great racing with them. They took the place of the street stocks
Interesting concepts for sure. I especially like the disclaimer, track prep, conditions and rule packages has a lot to do with set up. We too run CRUSA class car, except it’s a Thunder Bomber that is in our area. Since your shocks are spec, tires are rethreads, and a restricted engine package a free setup is a must. Actually we run far less bite, because of the LR biting too much that it creates a tight car. Since our engines don’t have lots of hp to drive the rear around, this is what works for us
I know exactly what you mean about horsepower. Last night I ran at a track that was rough as a cob but hooked up on the bottom and when I was in that groove I had to stay hammer down to keep the push out of it. Its a trade off and at that point I was thinking "Maybe a little less Bite might have been ok after all" :)
Great video! I've started running paved ovals after working as crew for a couple of years and have been chasing a good setup after track rules allowed our cars to go on a 200 lb weight loss diet. You've done a great job showing me where I've made mistakes.
Yes I agree, if you set up the calipers correctly a 5 inch offset works. BUT . . . If you are running a 62inch rear you can do it on the left side and it not rub the shock tower and leaf but not on the right side. If you run a 60 inch rearend, it may even run on the left aide as well. Have to really check your clearances to run a 5 inch offset wheel. Great feedback and discussion Steve, thanks for watching our videos.
Steve, you are correct about how that will move weight left but it will also have a negative affect of loosening the car on the throttle that is more significant. For that reason I don't consider it a good adjustment to change bite.
I think that your bar angles and panhard also the bite bar are not working together? I'm not sure every car is different, but I have seen guys get numbers and roll center, scale numbers in there head and never get a winning car? Bit thats me, give the car what it wants, stopwatch don't lie, I don't care if it's fast with a 500 lb lr spring, if it wins races, run it, lol
@@DIRTRACELIFE I ran 5" offsets on left side and 3" on rt, moving lr in helped bite a ton, also I ran a 175 or 150 on rr spring in 1994, everyone said no way? In a 3500 pd pro stock on asphalt at shadybowl fastest 3/10 mile banked trk, fastest trk they say for size., just saying I never ran dirt, but all classes I was a crewcheif,
@@DIRTRACELIFE I would increase pinion angle, and put 2 on sway bar for entry and exit, and use rear stagger to fine tune, less stagger is faster, always remember u are dragging rear tires down straight ways,
Always a mid plate, never never run a tail mount. I know that video is going to cause some grief when I get to it in this build but theres darn good science behind it and hopefully I'll convince folks to go mid-plate when they can.
dumb question here. Im 54, built a few stock cars back in 06-07,...but because of money never raced. I built those from the ground up. I had buddies who won in stock cars so i even got info from them. My question,...i watched some vids on youtube lately and the street stock/stock cars are right front diving in the corner and kinda carrying the left front. THATS odd to me. Back then they ran around 900-1000 LF and 1100-1450 RF . I seen your "soft spring" setup, is THIS what they're doing now? The ones i watched were flying while rolling over on right front.
Yes Scott, I am seeing the soft RF setup everywhere here in the south eastern US. I think much of this is a result of a tendency for most track surfaces to be intentionally managed in a way to create a smooth dry slick surface by the time feature races come. It seems very common to see metric cars running between 600 and 700 lb RF springs and 100 lbs more on the left. It does work but requires an entire system tuned to it and just be aware it DOES NOT like a rough track at all. For me I am going through a process of testing, driving it, learning, changing variables, etc in order for me to truly understand all the aspects where I can both create success for my team but also be able to teach the mechanics of it to everyone here on the channel.
You would have to put more preload in the LR spring to get your bite number to the same amount. Now the issue there would be, your having to run much lower on the lr shackle than the rr shackle to get that bite load up. One inch difference is fine but 3 or 4. . .. now it creates bind on the housing if both spring perches are at the same angle. So instead you would need to disassemble the LR spring and re-arch it to add at least two to three inches of arch. At that point you could likely make it work but the affect... hmmm, I would expect the car to get tighter middle to off corner because you would probably get a more consistent LR bite load while traversing the corner. This is because your range of movement on the LR would increase with slightly smoother change in the bite amount. But entry??? Not sure. And it would eat those LR springs like snacks. If I did it, I would probably be measuring arch after ever race to determine when to re-arch again. I'm not against it. Experimenting is how you find speed. Just need to be brave about signing up for all the problems you might encounter.
Nick, bump is the change in a wheels steering angle as the assembly moves up and down. This happens because the height of the centerlink is fixed but the attachment point on the spindle is moving up and down. Yes changing the height at either end of the tie rod assembly directly changes bump and the length and location of that assembly does as well. Its complicated for sure but we have plans to make a video on this as well. Thanks for watching.
I have never run a sway bar on dirt. I hear that a few do but for me I feel it would go against what I am after which is a car that will transfer over on the RF and bring in some rear steer by doing that.
I ran a sway bar accidentally back in my teens on the rear end of a gm metric. Car only ran the top. After taking it off and changing rear springs the car rolled over and I could put it anywhere. Had a front sway bar that was there for heavy track (I guess, didn't build the car) but it was set up where it didn't work and you could adjust it to be in use (never did). I wouldn't run one
Yes I agree, we ran asphalt at shadybowl u have to run one in every class, maybe? But I ran a big bar only in front and no one ran it like me? Old school, but it was great, never ran dirt but I have alot of respect for drivers and crew, its tough competition always and a ton in a feature of cars.
I always had a saying, go to the bar to get in and off !! Worked always, gave us better entry and exit, it won 4 track championships on Fri and state two tracks, we also ran a hvy street stock in sportsman 500 pds hvy and won the feature also.
I have read every manual Steve Smith put out. If you are new then definitely find a copy of Steve's "Street Stock Technology" I started with that book 20 years ago. It is the perfect place to start BUT it doesn't go nearly deep enough or cover the complexity of roll center movement, squat, dive, or drive. Just where to start. If you are already racing and feel like you understand all the basics of setups then this is where you have to make a leap. Start reading setup books on modifieds and late models. You won't get that next level understanding in street stock books (one of the reasons I started DRL) but you will if you start studying the information for more sophisticated cars. I was able to build a much better understanding of how cars act dynamically on the track by reading manuals such as the one Steve Smith and Joe Garrison put out on Late models. Go to old forums like 4m.net and read literally EVERYTHING in the technology sections for all the different classes. The key is getting that grasp of how the engineering element works for any four wheel vehicle going in a circle. Then you look at your particular car and application and apply what you've learned. I hope this helps and thanks for watching!
Thats Left rear bite which is just subtracting the total amount the right rear weighs from the total left rear weight. I said 84+8 just doing the math in my head. Heres an example. Your left rear weighs 900 pounds and your right rear weighs 800 lbs. You have 100 pounds on left rear bite (900-800=100). Hope this helps and thanks for watching our videos!
@@DIRTRACELIFE more bite the better? Little bit of a mirror confusion test for ya! So on a 700kg car with left 115kg and right 178kg. I would have 63kg of bite. 63kg of 700kg is 9% You have a 3000lbs car with 90lb bite so that is 3% Would I have too much bite and what problem would that cause, pushing? Like you having 270lb bite on a 3000lb car
@@DIRTRACELIFE Thank you for the upload and the great information,keep them comings, think you have been a teacher in a past life, look forward to the next one ...
How did u get 52 to 53 rear bias legal by rules? I built a street stock and I kept all low and left and rear, only got 51 52 max, ever, that car should be a bullet..lol
Steve, its a combination of factors. At the time the weight requirement in CRUSA SS was 3200 pounds and since the car is built light it gives us the ability to put 300 pounds right over the rear. Our front end bumper and bracing is practically nothing. I accept that any hit in the front means me making or fixing some tubing. The whole front cover and front fenders are abs plastic and the body is aluminum. It let's us be lighter to move weight where we want. Just keep in mind this is for dirt and in many classes I race in you have to be at least 52% rear just to keep up.
You are correct Cregen. My front shocks on the Camaro are Bilstein gas shocks and because the gas exerts a continuous rod force they will have an affect on the scale numbers. In my case it's not much, maybe a few pounds but according to how much gas and what shocks it could be more for some cars. Those shocks I run are stock location, in the original shock mounts and are quite difficult to unhook. I choose not to unhook them but I absolutely agree with you. If you are running gas shocks then unhook them in order to remove that rod force affect from your scale numbers. Good catch and thank you for watching.
Jason thank you for the info .im 57 and haven't raced dirt in 35 years .been doing the mid am stuff but my passion is for dirt .you my man have started a fire that can't be put out .im looking for a build again. Oh my wife says thanx jason
Hell Yeah Bill👍🏁🔥!!!!!
57 is young!!! I know there's alot of Big Block Modified drivers that are in their 60's.
Billy Pauch for example. Also at my local track in Pennsylvania I know of a few guys that are in their early 60's that run late model and UMP mods. You're only as old as you think you are. Go for it!!!
Really appreciate how transparent you are with the info in a sport that transparency isn’t in the racing dictionary. Anyone just getting started in the sport, these videos are a GOD send. Newcomers will get discouraged and quit and the sport needs to grow or it dies; Something for us all to keep in mind.Thank you for all your info and help. Keep em coming!!!
Thank you for the kind words Teresa. Trying to make a difference :)
I’ve literally helped a race team change out shocks and set ride heights, these people were friends of the family, and I learned more from this video than I did them. Some of the best content on the internet right here. Well done. Keep it up sir
Thanks Chris, thats the kind of impact we are trying to make so really appreciate that feedback. I appreciate you watching.
Love your work Jason! All the way from Australia 🇦🇺
Thank you very much Trevor! Australia is a Dirt Racer's dream and I hope to see some action there myself in person before I leave this earth!
@@DIRTRACELIFE it's great racing over here if you get the chance you should check it out! I've always wanted to come to America to watch speedway or even have a drive there to compare the cars and tracks
Great video! I have been a racer for 50 years, and I must say you gave some very good and accurate information!
We're tryin Garry. Appreciate you watching!
Awesome video love that you didn’t try to hide anything the better everyone gets the better the racing will be you seem like the type of guy that if someone at the track was struggling and ask if you had any pointers you wouldn’t bs them and help out tracks need more guys like you can’t wait till your metric car is done and you do a setup video on it keep up the good work
Thank you Eric, honestly love building the most so thats two of us want to see the coil build back underway.
Good instructional illustration. We run at Batesville Motor Speedway in Arkansas. We have to run 3200. It's a high bank 3/8 miles. We like to run more left rear because of the momentum that the track promotes. We don't slow much in the corners . I get a lot of information from your content. Keep up the good work.
Thank you, I have been to Batesville to the Schoenfield SS race years ago. Would love to race there one day.
@@DIRTRACELIFE they are running Arkansas factory stocks which are mainly metric cars. The leaf cars can't stay up. So we have a separate class for the called hobby stock. Basically the same rules as FS but leaf springs only. Also they are running the IMCA stock cars. Great racing with them. They took the place of the street stocks
Thank you sir I'm one the last few running a leafer
getting ready to put a brand new car on the track and I dont have much understanding on setup thank you very. much. for sharing your knowledge!!!
Glad it was helpful Bruce and good luck.
Great job explaining things one of the best I've seen on the Internet
Thank you Bobby, thats great motivation for us to make more like this. I appreciate it.
Interesting concepts for sure. I especially like the disclaimer, track prep, conditions and rule packages has a lot to do with set up. We too run CRUSA class car, except it’s a Thunder Bomber that is in our area. Since your shocks are spec, tires are rethreads, and a restricted engine package a free setup is a must. Actually we run far less bite, because of the LR biting too much that it creates a tight car. Since our engines don’t have lots of hp to drive the rear around, this is what works for us
I know exactly what you mean about horsepower. Last night I ran at a track that was rough as a cob but hooked up on the bottom and when I was in that groove I had to stay hammer down to keep the push out of it. Its a trade off and at that point I was thinking "Maybe a little less Bite might have been ok after all" :)
@@DIRTRACELIFE you took some video footage of your race?
@@jasonlogan3209 yes, probably take me a couple days to get it up, but I will.
Great video! I've started running paved ovals after working as crew for a couple of years and have been chasing a good setup after track rules allowed our cars to go on a 200 lb weight loss diet. You've done a great job showing me where I've made mistakes.
I'm glad the videos are helpful and appreciate you watching.
What a video!!! Bravo man. Lot of good information here!
Thank you, I appreciate the feedback. Sure helps motivate me to keep at it with more.
awesome page btw,...finally a great page on building and setup
Thanks Scott.
Great video and well explained information. Exactly what I needed to know without knowing what all I needed to know. Thanks.
Thanks WB3
What kind of track and car are you running I know a big secret
Im trying to put together a pure stock before this season ends. Running on dirt, 1/4 and 3/8 mile tracks.
Great informative video! Thank you for sharing your info and explaining the suspension dynamics in an easy to understand way.
Thanks C J
Enjoy your channel bud! Keep up the good work
Thanks bud..... never know might be a distant cousin ;)
What about moving lr in? For more wt on that tire? Alot say u can't get a 5 inch offset over the caliper? I did always, not easy but do able..
Yes I agree, if you set up the calipers correctly a 5 inch offset works. BUT . . . If you are running a 62inch rear you can do it on the left side and it not rub the shock tower and leaf but not on the right side. If you run a 60 inch rearend, it may even run on the left aide as well. Have to really check your clearances to run a 5 inch offset wheel.
Great feedback and discussion Steve, thanks for watching our videos.
Well said thank you Jason!
Thanks Steve
Learning how to use scales appreciate all the information question what Numbers are you adding to get left rear bite
Lol Just figured it out thanks again
Man sorry I was slow on the draw. Left rear scale weight minus the right rear scale weight will give you left rear bite.
Why not move rr out and lr in to add more wt to lr? And adjustability with wheel offsets for track conditions?
Steve, you are correct about how that will move weight left but it will also have a negative affect of loosening the car on the throttle that is more significant. For that reason I don't consider it a good adjustment to change bite.
I think that your bar angles and panhard also the bite bar are not working together? I'm not sure every car is different, but I have seen guys get numbers and roll center, scale numbers in there head and never get a winning car? Bit thats me, give the car what it wants, stopwatch don't lie, I don't care if it's fast with a 500 lb lr spring, if it wins races, run it, lol
@@DIRTRACELIFE I ran 5" offsets on left side and 3" on rt, moving lr in helped bite a ton, also I ran a 175 or 150 on rr spring in 1994, everyone said no way? In a 3500 pd pro stock on asphalt at shadybowl fastest 3/10 mile banked trk, fastest trk they say for size., just saying I never ran dirt, but all classes I was a crewcheif,
@@DIRTRACELIFE I would increase pinion angle, and put 2 on sway bar for entry and exit, and use rear stagger to fine tune, less stagger is faster, always remember u are dragging rear tires down straight ways,
Sure agree with you on the Stagger Steve. Anything more than that perfect amount is doing nothing but scrubbing speed off.
Which set up did the camaro perform best on heavy rr spring or softer
On a slick smooth track I have found the heavy RR setup is the best way to run a leafer.
like on spritns one tire that looks as if its ready to blow up but they do that on purpose
Agreed, its crazy how much stagger a Sprint car has :)
Could you maybe cover how to measure stagger at some point?
I can do that! Thanks.
Done! ua-cam.com/video/Agm11HtrQb4/v-deo.html
Omgosh John you are amazing thank you thank you thank you
Jason
Hey starts with a J, good enough! I appreciate the feedback and glad you find these useful.
Awesome content. Thank you so Much!!!
Thank You Jason, I sure appreciate your support as well and hope we continue to make videos that hit the mark for you.
Question. Do you run a mid plate or rear tranny mount
Always a mid plate, never never run a tail mount. I know that video is going to cause some grief when I get to it in this build but theres darn good science behind it and hopefully I'll convince folks to go mid-plate when they can.
dumb question here. Im 54, built a few stock cars back in 06-07,...but because of money never raced. I built those from the ground up. I had buddies who won in stock cars so i even got info from them. My question,...i watched some vids on youtube lately and the street stock/stock cars are right front diving in the corner and kinda carrying the left front. THATS odd to me. Back then they ran around 900-1000 LF and 1100-1450 RF . I seen your "soft spring" setup, is THIS what they're doing now? The ones i watched were flying while rolling over on right front.
Yes Scott, I am seeing the soft RF setup everywhere here in the south eastern US. I think much of this is a result of a tendency for most track surfaces to be intentionally managed in a way to create a smooth dry slick surface by the time feature races come. It seems very common to see metric cars running between 600 and 700 lb RF springs and 100 lbs more on the left. It does work but requires an entire system tuned to it and just be aware it DOES NOT like a rough track at all. For me I am going through a process of testing, driving it, learning, changing variables, etc in order for me to truly understand all the aspects where I can both create success for my team but also be able to teach the mechanics of it to everyone here on the channel.
What would running a heavy RR spring vs a LR spring do?
You would have to put more preload in the LR spring to get your bite number to the same amount. Now the issue there would be, your having to run much lower on the lr shackle than the rr shackle to get that bite load up. One inch difference is fine but 3 or 4. . .. now it creates bind on the housing if both spring perches are at the same angle. So instead you would need to disassemble the LR spring and re-arch it to add at least two to three inches of arch. At that point you could likely make it work but the affect... hmmm, I would expect the car to get tighter middle to off corner because you would probably get a more consistent LR bite load while traversing the corner. This is because your range of movement on the LR would increase with slightly smoother change in the bite amount. But entry??? Not sure. And it would eat those LR springs like snacks. If I did it, I would probably be measuring arch after ever race to determine when to re-arch again.
I'm not against it. Experimenting is how you find speed. Just need to be brave about signing up for all the problems you might encounter.
🔄 What is Bump Steer and can it be Ajusted❓
Nick, bump is the change in a wheels steering angle as the assembly moves up and down. This happens because the height of the centerlink is fixed but the attachment point on the spindle is moving up and down. Yes changing the height at either end of the tie rod assembly directly changes bump and the length and location of that assembly does as well.
Its complicated for sure but we have plans to make a video on this as well.
Thanks for watching.
What about scaling with swaybar hooked up? I always unhooked it scaled and set nutriel?
I have never run a sway bar on dirt. I hear that a few do but for me I feel it would go against what I am after which is a car that will transfer over on the RF and bring in some rear steer by doing that.
I ran a sway bar accidentally back in my teens on the rear end of a gm metric. Car only ran the top. After taking it off and changing rear springs the car rolled over and I could put it anywhere.
Had a front sway bar that was there for heavy track (I guess, didn't build the car) but it was set up where it didn't work and you could adjust it to be in use (never did).
I wouldn't run one
Yes I agree, we ran asphalt at shadybowl u have to run one in every class, maybe? But I ran a big bar only in front and no one ran it like me? Old school, but it was great, never ran dirt but I have alot of respect for drivers and crew, its tough competition always and a ton in a feature of cars.
I always had a saying, go to the bar to get in and off !! Worked always, gave us better entry and exit, it won 4 track championships on Fri and state two tracks, we also ran a hvy street stock in sportsman 500 pds hvy and won the feature also.
Can you refer me to any thing that can get me started with learning setups and understanding the basics of setups?
I have read every manual Steve Smith put out. If you are new then definitely find a copy of Steve's "Street Stock Technology" I started with that book 20 years ago. It is the perfect place to start BUT it doesn't go nearly deep enough or cover the complexity of roll center movement, squat, dive, or drive. Just where to start. If you are already racing and feel like you understand all the basics of setups then this is where you have to make a leap. Start reading setup books on modifieds and late models. You won't get that next level understanding in street stock books (one of the reasons I started DRL) but you will if you start studying the information for more sophisticated cars. I was able to build a much better understanding of how cars act dynamically on the track by reading manuals such as the one Steve Smith and Joe Garrison put out on Late models. Go to old forums like 4m.net and read literally EVERYTHING in the technology sections for all the different classes. The key is getting that grasp of how the engineering element works for any four wheel vehicle going in a circle. Then you look at your particular car and application and apply what you've learned. I hope this helps and thanks for watching!
Thank you
Thanks Tyler, I appreciate you watching our channel.
Hi when taking about bite. You say 84+8. 92lbs of bite. Where did them numbers come from
Cheers
Thats Left rear bite which is just subtracting the total amount the right rear weighs from the total left rear weight. I said 84+8 just doing the math in my head. Heres an example. Your left rear weighs 900 pounds and your right rear weighs 800 lbs. You have 100 pounds on left rear bite (900-800=100).
Hope this helps and thanks for watching our videos!
@@DIRTRACELIFE if you get bored. Look at uk 2.0 national hotrods. That’s what I’m trying to learn about. Thanks for the info and video
@@DIRTRACELIFE you turn left?
Yes, thats turning left so it all mirrors for you guys. It would be wanting the right rear heavier instead.
@@DIRTRACELIFE more bite the better?
Little bit of a mirror confusion test for ya!
So on a 700kg car with left 115kg and right 178kg. I would have 63kg of bite. 63kg of 700kg is 9%
You have a 3000lbs car with 90lb bite so that is 3%
Would I have too much bite and what problem would that cause, pushing?
Like you having 270lb bite on a 3000lb car
I would have a roof hatch
Im not sure yet exactly how the roof will play out. I like the idea for sure but the roof I planned to use is fiberglass. I need to think on that one.
what brand nose is that
Its the Dominator one. Pretty darn tough material compared to some.
Thanks for watching.
What do you mean by BITE ?
Bite is the difference between the LR and the RR weight. If your LR weighs 900 lbs and the RR weighs 800 lbs you have 100 lbs of bite.
Thanks for the fast response Outlaw. Spot on. :)
@@DIRTRACELIFE Thank you for the upload and the great information,keep them comings, think you have been a teacher in a past life, look forward to the next one ...
How did u get 52 to 53 rear bias legal by rules? I built a street stock and I kept all low and left and rear, only got 51 52 max, ever, that car should be a bullet..lol
Steve, its a combination of factors. At the time the weight requirement in CRUSA SS was 3200 pounds and since the car is built light it gives us the ability to put 300 pounds right over the rear. Our front end bumper and bracing is practically nothing. I accept that any hit in the front means me making or fixing some tubing. The whole front cover and front fenders are abs plastic and the body is aluminum. It let's us be lighter to move weight where we want. Just keep in mind this is for dirt and in many classes I race in you have to be at least 52% rear just to keep up.
You really should Scale without shocks. Especially with a pin down on the car.
You are correct Cregen. My front shocks on the Camaro are Bilstein gas shocks and because the gas exerts a continuous rod force they will have an affect on the scale numbers. In my case it's not much, maybe a few pounds but according to how much gas and what shocks it could be more for some cars. Those shocks I run are stock location, in the original shock mounts and are quite difficult to unhook. I choose not to unhook them but I absolutely agree with you. If you are running gas shocks then unhook them in order to remove that rod force affect from your scale numbers. Good catch and thank you for watching.