Great video; gets me thinking I should do similar...I share a lot of sentiment with you and am now 31 with a similar historicity with MMORPG's. It's a pleasant time getting into MMO's but there is a certain charm missing in modern MMO's as they're geared towards making money first and foremost; the trend of the last decade has shown this to me. It's hard to get immersed now with min/max guides out, shortcuts people can pay for, and the overall lack of content in newer titles... there are a few MMo's on the horizon but it's been quite dim for some time now... At best, we old-heads, can gather and discuss what was great and perhaps, in time, MMO's see a revival.
SWTOR is criminally easy nowadays any challenge from the game has been gradually reduced to the point you can 3 person a SM ops if you have 3 people who know what they are doing and a bit of time. There needs to be some form of difficulty option for the solo content.
Back then in Metin2 I had to collaborate with people to get armored horse because I had to kill certain amount of enemies in 20 minutes on horseback without getting off the horse (this part is important) and if you do it alone you'll probably have to grind some items again to do the quest. 1 person was usually enough help but we had the tradition to do it with 2 helpers. Because horse back combat usually only good for killing large number of enemies due to stat boost and knock back but you couldn't cast spells on horse so it was very difficult to complete that mission alone and other people might kill the enemies you need to kill before. Luckily when you're in a party every enemy killed is counted as everyone's kill. This way a lot of quests are much easier. And some quests required so dropped items which you could farm with others easier to buy from. There were also guild wars which were pretty awesome. I never forget that defeat when the top player joined a rival guild and they beat us. At that time we had grinded our guild to #1 so it had meaning. We were also paying in game money (we get from grinding and commerce) to our guild leader to build guild structures, we trusted that guy that he did not ask the coins for himself.
I think there always needs to be a grind for MMOs it's the sense of accomplishment that is worth it. I personally don't like cash shops in MMOs and making all the only good items/cosmetics available there. You should be able to get great items from grinding and playing the game. Only exceptions are games like GW2 and LOTRO which have made it easier to earn the currency to buy from the store without using your own money.
@@PWReviews I agree with you as usual my friend! There needs to be at least some grind. I remember you saying that you play new world? Have you tried Aeternum? I’m hooked right now.
@NoblePlays Oh yes, I came back with the Aternum launch and loving it again. I've made a sort of mage build with the firestaff/void and recently made a healer build too. I have never been a healer in any MMO, but in New world I may try to continue. I do like how you can just make numerous classes if you want with one character.
You need to try a HORIZONTAL progression MMO like ESO... There is no time gating on zones. You have players that are lvl10 and lvl50 CP 2000+ doing the same tasks. The zones are always super busy There are billions of collectables all over the world, which you can get at any point of your gameplay There are tons to do in zones to group up, there are like 60 dungeons you can do with a group of 3 other players. You can still find a group for the first trial (raid) that came out 8-9years ago, since the game is horizontal. Yes, the in game shop kind of sucks. If you ignore it, you have an amazing game. I have like 1,300h logged into the game and still have more to do. I take my time, enjoy everythjng at my pace. One day I do quests in a zone, another day I will pvp. Another day I do dungeons or go collecting items, the next I craft.
The problem with forced social interaction or forced grouping to do content is a financial gamble today. What do you do when half the server decides to play another game? You are stuck playing a game that relies on other players in order to progress your character. I played WoW since the beginning and in '04/'05 that formula worked well because people didn't have the option to choose among 20 other mmos like today. By 2005 UO was done, EverQuest was done too, and EverQuest 2 was pretty much hated even by EverQuest players. Thus, WoW was the only mmo at the time. People stuck with it mostly for that reason. If you had a hard time finishing a dungeon because someone was being a noob, you didn't kick them, you took time to explain the fights, so that everyone could get their quests done and move on. Early WoW was full of bugs that today would make people move on to another mmo, but they didn't back then, because there was no other game like it. Then in 2007, LOTRO came out, adding an extra option for mmo players. Right after, in 2008, Warhammer Online. Age of Conan came in 2008 as well. And then from that point on it was just an invasion of mmos; Eve, Aion, Runes of Magic, Star Trek Online, SWTOR, FF14, ESO etc, etc. Every mmo started to add conveniences to try and 1up each other, they saw that people loved those conveniences, so now you have every mmo with a lot of quality of life features that initially didn't have. The problem with the journey being more fun than the destination, how many times do you have to go through that journey before enough is enough? Do you know how many people had alts in 2005 WoW? Very few, because no one wanted to go through that long-ass grind once again.
TV commercials. That's why you went back to WoW and why other MMOs fell off. You either have TV commercials and have a grand community, or you don't have TV commercials and people move on. Being convenient or grindy or whatever makes players happy equates to nothing without TV commercials.
@@HiddenPalm WoW's commercials didn't come around till 2010, by then I had played WoW for 6 years (and frankly was already tired of it). The reason why people kept going back to it is because that's where everyone was (for the reasons I already explained above). Between 2005 and 2010 there wasn't a gamer that didn't have a friend or an acquaintance that didn't play WoW, and they surely didn't learn it via a TV ad.
This kid skipped something major! Convenience vs grind aren't really the polar opposites or the only choices for a solution to uplift the MMO genre. It's marketing, young blood. If an MMO is not marketing its game, like WoW, you can argue about convenience vs grind all you want, neither convenience nor grind is going to make the community grow. TV commercials do that. We've known this since the first television sets. With TV commercials, an MMO can be both convenient and grindy.
I’m not really too concerned with community growth. I was just pointing out that as I’ve gotten older and have more responsibilities, I have grown the appreciate the quality of life stuff that’s gotten added. But also miss and appreciate the grindy state of older MMOs.
@@NoblePlays I did get all that. But i n the video this is all presented as a problem, one that needs a solution. I'm the same way. I often imagine if I could have been the next Neil deGrasse Tyson or Noam Chomsky if I wasn't running a SWTOR guild since 2011. At your young age of 27 you're like I just made some power moves and can't go back to gaming. At my Gen X age, I made my late 20s power moves, and 30 something power moves and fell numerous times too more demons/obstacles and getting tired of having to get back up. SWTOR (MMO gaming)/is the only constant. Which is why you keep coming back to mmo gaming too. Its just there, and we know her so well. What's not there is the community so immense it would be impossible to know everyone. But the reality is, its the same exact handful of players doing NiMs on all the servers. After getting to know them, progging the dungeons of R4, one realizes you have a guild to look after and you can't be with these guildless proplayers in discord communities where they don't have to worry about looking after a Guild, killing the need of Guild, turning the best players of a Guild the same way, where no one who plays well has to worry about a guild when they can just join a discord community dedicated to that particular content. Its a similar issue, who has the time to be part of the tiny (same people) end game community and running a guild - let alone a life, like you brought up. This all comes off as a problem. My solution is make the community as vast as World of Warcraft, and they did it because they had Chuck Norris, Mr T, and endless celebrities be in televized commercials for them. It just works. How many celebrities does Star Wars have? Endless. Anyhow it was a good video, that sparks conversations like this. See ya around, kid. (Winks)
![Exactly How Luclin Works In EverQuest [TLP]](/img/n.gif)
What are you enjoying most about mmorpgs these days?
All the weed smoking.
Great video; gets me thinking I should do similar...I share a lot of sentiment with you and am now 31 with a similar historicity with MMORPG's. It's a pleasant time getting into MMO's but there is a certain charm missing in modern MMO's as they're geared towards making money first and foremost; the trend of the last decade has shown this to me.
It's hard to get immersed now with min/max guides out, shortcuts people can pay for, and the overall lack of content in newer titles... there are a few MMo's on the horizon but it's been quite dim for some time now...
At best, we old-heads, can gather and discuss what was great and perhaps, in time, MMO's see a revival.
SWTOR is criminally easy nowadays any challenge from the game has been gradually reduced to the point you can 3 person a SM ops if you have 3 people who know what they are doing and a bit of time. There needs to be some form of difficulty option for the solo content.
Nice Vid Man, i love your Voice ^^
Ok, settle down.
Back then in Metin2 I had to collaborate with people to get armored horse because I had to kill certain amount of enemies in 20 minutes on horseback without getting off the horse (this part is important) and if you do it alone you'll probably have to grind some items again to do the quest. 1 person was usually enough help but we had the tradition to do it with 2 helpers. Because horse back combat usually only good for killing large number of enemies due to stat boost and knock back but you couldn't cast spells on horse so it was very difficult to complete that mission alone and other people might kill the enemies you need to kill before. Luckily when you're in a party every enemy killed is counted as everyone's kill. This way a lot of quests are much easier. And some quests required so dropped items which you could farm with others easier to buy from. There were also guild wars which were pretty awesome. I never forget that defeat when the top player joined a rival guild and they beat us. At that time we had grinded our guild to #1 so it had meaning. We were also paying in game money (we get from grinding and commerce) to our guild leader to build guild structures, we trusted that guy that he did not ask the coins for himself.
I think there always needs to be a grind for MMOs it's the sense of accomplishment that is worth it.
I personally don't like cash shops in MMOs and making all the only good items/cosmetics available there. You should be able to get great items from grinding and playing the game.
Only exceptions are games like GW2 and LOTRO which have made it easier to earn the currency to buy from the store without using your own money.
@@PWReviews I agree with you as usual my friend! There needs to be at least some grind. I remember you saying that you play new world? Have you tried Aeternum? I’m hooked right now.
@NoblePlays Oh yes, I came back with the Aternum launch and loving it again. I've made a sort of mage build with the firestaff/void and recently made a healer build too. I have never been a healer in any MMO, but in New world I may try to continue. I do like how you can just make numerous classes if you want with one character.
You need to try a HORIZONTAL progression MMO like ESO... There is no time gating on zones. You have players that are lvl10 and lvl50 CP 2000+ doing the same tasks. The zones are always super busy
There are billions of collectables all over the world, which you can get at any point of your gameplay
There are tons to do in zones to group up, there are like 60 dungeons you can do with a group of 3 other players. You can still find a group for the first trial (raid) that came out 8-9years ago, since the game is horizontal.
Yes, the in game shop kind of sucks. If you ignore it, you have an amazing game. I have like 1,300h logged into the game and still have more to do. I take my time, enjoy everythjng at my pace. One day I do quests in a zone, another day I will pvp. Another day I do dungeons or go collecting items, the next I craft.
I played eso for 3 years 🤣I just started it with the wife again.
The problem with forced social interaction or forced grouping to do content is a financial gamble today. What do you do when half the server decides to play another game? You are stuck playing a game that relies on other players in order to progress your character.
I played WoW since the beginning and in '04/'05 that formula worked well because people didn't have the option to choose among 20 other mmos like today. By 2005 UO was done, EverQuest was done too, and EverQuest 2 was pretty much hated even by EverQuest players. Thus, WoW was the only mmo at the time. People stuck with it mostly for that reason. If you had a hard time finishing a dungeon because someone was being a noob, you didn't kick them, you took time to explain the fights, so that everyone could get their quests done and move on. Early WoW was full of bugs that today would make people move on to another mmo, but they didn't back then, because there was no other game like it.
Then in 2007, LOTRO came out, adding an extra option for mmo players. Right after, in 2008, Warhammer Online. Age of Conan came in 2008 as well. And then from that point on it was just an invasion of mmos; Eve, Aion, Runes of Magic, Star Trek Online, SWTOR, FF14, ESO etc, etc.
Every mmo started to add conveniences to try and 1up each other, they saw that people loved those conveniences, so now you have every mmo with a lot of quality of life features that initially didn't have.
The problem with the journey being more fun than the destination, how many times do you have to go through that journey before enough is enough? Do you know how many people had alts in 2005 WoW? Very few, because no one wanted to go through that long-ass grind once again.
TV commercials. That's why you went back to WoW and why other MMOs fell off. You either have TV commercials and have a grand community, or you don't have TV commercials and people move on.
Being convenient or grindy or whatever makes players happy equates to nothing without TV commercials.
@@HiddenPalm WoW's commercials didn't come around till 2010, by then I had played WoW for 6 years (and frankly was already tired of it). The reason why people kept going back to it is because that's where everyone was (for the reasons I already explained above). Between 2005 and 2010 there wasn't a gamer that didn't have a friend or an acquaintance that didn't play WoW, and they surely didn't learn it via a TV ad.
what's the game at 5:00 ?
Throne & Liberty
@@NoblePlays thanks
This kid skipped something major! Convenience vs grind aren't really the polar opposites or the only choices for a solution to uplift the MMO genre.
It's marketing, young blood. If an MMO is not marketing its game, like WoW, you can argue about convenience vs grind all you want, neither convenience nor grind is going to make the community grow. TV commercials do that.
We've known this since the first television sets.
With TV commercials, an MMO can be both convenient and grindy.
I’m not really too concerned with community growth. I was just pointing out that as I’ve gotten older and have more responsibilities, I have grown the appreciate the quality of life stuff that’s gotten added. But also miss and appreciate the grindy state of older MMOs.
@@NoblePlays I did get all that. But i n the video this is all presented as a problem, one that needs a solution.
I'm the same way. I often imagine if I could have been the next Neil deGrasse Tyson or Noam Chomsky if I wasn't running a SWTOR guild since 2011.
At your young age of 27 you're like I just made some power moves and can't go back to gaming. At my Gen X age, I made my late 20s power moves, and 30 something power moves and fell numerous times too more demons/obstacles and getting tired of having to get back up.
SWTOR (MMO gaming)/is the only constant. Which is why you keep coming back to mmo gaming too. Its just there, and we know her so well. What's not there is the community so immense it would be impossible to know everyone. But the reality is, its the same exact handful of players doing NiMs on all the servers. After getting to know them, progging the dungeons of R4, one realizes you have a guild to look after and you can't be with these guildless proplayers in discord communities where they don't have to worry about looking after a Guild, killing the need of Guild, turning the best players of a Guild the same way, where no one who plays well has to worry about a guild when they can just join a discord community dedicated to that particular content.
Its a similar issue, who has the time to be part of the tiny (same people) end game community and running a guild - let alone a life, like you brought up.
This all comes off as a problem. My solution is make the community as vast as World of Warcraft, and they did it because they had Chuck Norris, Mr T, and endless celebrities be in televized commercials for them. It just works.
How many celebrities does Star Wars have? Endless.
Anyhow it was a good video, that sparks conversations like this. See ya around, kid. (Winks)