Choose the Right Projector Screen!! Best in Class with Masking for your Home Theater!
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- Опубліковано 26 жов 2021
- Don't TRASH your System with the Wrong Projector Screen! Why you need an Acoustic projector screen and how to choose the right one! What format /screen ratio should you buy?? Home Theater Gurus | Projector Masking| Seymour projector screens.
We go over how to understand acoustic screen specs and the different types of screens and their issues.
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• Acoustically Transpare...
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Awesome video!!! Very well done and extremely informative. Glad to see more videos from you. Keep up the great work
Yay! Great to have you back! 👏👏👏🤩
Thanks!
Thanks for this video. I haven't done much research on screens in quite some time. Didn't even know about woven screens.
I always wondered about which AT screen to get. Thanks for sharing your knowledge, great video.
Yes! Always use masking.
Great content as always 🍻
Thanks Gaz!
Hey Steven! Hope you’re well…another great video 👍🏼
You personally recommend the XD material to me and I couldn’t be happier! Without doubt the best upgrade I have made to my room was going AT and putting centre at the same height as the mains,dialogue is locked to screen now. As you mentioned there was virtually no loss in volume and the images look great on my 130” screen sitting 12-13ft away 😘
Keep the videos coming!
Regards
Darren.
Awesome! I wouldn't recommend it if I didn't use it myself!
Well looky who's back! Missed your videos.
Yeah I've got too many videos I need to make to not come back.. 😁
I'm so glad that you are nearly done with your new home and are back again! You talked about the center channel "dip". I finally fix that issue in my living room by mounting the TV on the wall and making my center speaker level with the L-R speakers. Oh so nice and even sound track that evenly follows the action on screen. Someday, I might try to mount speakers centered vertically to the sides of the TV and a pair of speakers above and below the TV for the center channel.
Dont do centers to the sides but dual centers above and below can work. It causes comb filtering but because your seats are all at the same level it can be delt with. With all the new flat panel module TVs coming out that will one day offer affordable projector screen sizes ,methods like dual centers will probably be in our future ,although not ideal, it can work.
@@hometheatergurus As I'm sure that you are fully aware of what I'm trying to achieve by surrounding the TV with speakers in the attempt to "center" the audio within the screen, characters and action. What you say about "comb filtering" with the above/below centers is true and I think building a longer bracket for the top speaker to match the distance from the bottom speaker to the MLP could prevent the comb filtering. Maybe a Mini DSP would be a better choice. But, at this point it is just an idea to maybe try someday. Thanks so much for your reply and for all of your efforts to educate the AV-HT masses.
Great video! Keep them coming! I used the black backing that came with my woven AT screen because there was a light source off the side (behind) the screen. Now that I’m building a wall and blocking that light source…I might be too lazy to remove the black backing. If it’s 1db or so, I might just admit defeat lol.
Ha...Yeah 1db isn't going to break anything..:)
I wish there was some data available on the acoustic properties of spandex screens. Spandex is in the woven category but is is super-fine, and in my opinion has almost no effect on sound passing through it, much like a speaker's grille.
Great video. I like audioholics a lot also for the same reasons you described, but I find their presentation is a little rough. Very long unedited videos with a lot of information. I love the way you break this stuff down to the nuts and bolts. Easy to understand and concise.
Same here. 1hr 30 videos kind of put me off a little. Steven’s videos are easier to swallow. :-)
yeah their videos can be long and can have a lot of noise when they get off topic but editing is a pain. It seriously takes some time especially if you're like me with a lot of takes and stuff that needs to be touched up. Some of the guests they have have incredibly valuable information.
@@hometheatergurus yep. Recently they’ve had some really good ones. It’s all very much appreciated though. There’s a ton of home theater content out there, but very few focused on solid appliable information.
I love the long videos, just stick them on while doing some sort of mundane task etc & it makes it less boring. Agree the wandering off topic can be a bit of a pain particularly if it's a subject you really wanted to hear about... mentioning no names (Don 😂)
@@hometheatergurus Their streams with Anthony Grimani are typically fantastic.
Brother, just a quick thank you. Over the past 12 months you have taught me so much about theatre set up and bass management. I know this question is not related to the video topic, but I can not find answer anywhere.
Ok a brief background.
I have tried to design a system for great music and great movies.
All my equipment is in the lounge room, no theatre room.
My question is in two parts. The RELs (see equipment list below) are connected to my amp with a hi level speakon socket which REL say is the best for music listening and also can be used with the LFE for movies. So Q1. Should I keep this connected when setting up my LFE bass with the mini dsp? Q.2 should my speakers be set to large or small with this setup?
My equipment relevant to movie listening is as follows:
Set up: 7:4:3
Amp: NAD M28
Processor: NAD M17 v2i
Subwoofers: REL S/510 x 2
Sub management: mini dsp HD
Room correction: Dirac Live
Main Speakers: PMC twenty five.26
Centre speaker PMC twenty five C
Surround Speakers: PMC twenty five.21
Rear Speakers: B&W CWM 663 in wall
Atmos Speakers: B&W M1 Ceiling mounted
I’ve watched all of your theater build videos and they’re great! I just wanted to understand how you installed the screen. It looks like you have the duct board on top of the drywall, but how did you create the 3” of space between the duct board and the screen to make sure the sound can pass through effectively? Thanks!
Thanks for the info! What would you recommend for best projector/screen for
around 10K. I value accuracy over brightness but obviously want HDR to hit. Room is 18 x 15 x almost 9ft ceiling.
I would like you to make a video on motorized masking systems for a motorized screens.
I'd love that too and Seymour does offer a motorized masking system.
Hey Steve, great video as always! I may have missed it but those must be acoustically transparent masking panels as well right? The ones Seymour calls “Millibel”?
Great video as always. When I switched b/w weave and perf, I realized (based on my experience) that Perf had a better look to it. I had a Seymour XD back then and now Severtson Perf. I do agree that one has to put a lot of effort to make perf sound good. I have gotten it to a very good point but still sometimes it leaves me thinking that there is a bit something off. Now after watching your video, I am wondering if I should give Weave another try. I sit at 9' 3" distance which means that XD will cause issues and UF is the way to go. My current screen is 1.3 gain perf but with 10% loss due to perf it comes down to 1.15 and realistically its 1.1 gain. That will drop from 1.1 to 0.8 gain but the audio will be better (Theoretically).
Now the loss of sound. As you mentioned its in the upper end. I did a lot of REW measurements as well and I could clearly see 10dB of loss. But here is the thing. Most of us (I believe) use a custom curve where we generally want to have high end lowered almost by 10dB. Therefore even if there is a loss of that sound, you really don't need to boost it to be flat. I mean even if you have it flat, you are going to use a curve to cut the high frequencies. May be not for music but for movies I think you'll do that. Unless you prefer flat curve no matter what then yes that's an issue otherwise its not.
Finally, the issue with the sound quality that you showed with graphics, yes that's a real issue if that's what happening. In my system with room heavily treated and also lots of effort to make all things work and having a very high sensitive speakers (JBL 4722N), it seems to work fine with Perf but a proper test would be to use a weave in the same environment and the hear the difference to make the final decision.
Good points. I agree that's too close for XD and uf would be the ticket. As for screen gain as you saw here if the gain you're using is from the manufacturer it's useless and could be a good bit less. I'd get samples of different screens to compare.
@@hometheatergurus gain from them is 1.3 and I measured them to be 1.1 at right on axes at eye level. I'll call them up now and get some samples and see how they stack up. Generally the samples are just so small that its hard to make a decision :-)
@@sherazdotnet yeah the samples aren't huge but should large enough to test gain comparison and sharpness at your seats.
Wish they would have compared the Stewart StudioTek and/or UltraMatte series screens as they are the more popular/better screens rated for higher gain and with better off axis material.
I have an older model StudioTek 130 with the older material that purchased back in 2011 when it was basically their best option for gain and have been able to keep the speakers really close to the screen so haven’t had the issues some end up facing.
Hopefully they'll update the test soon.
New sub here.... Thanks for the videos..... It will be great if you could add pictores of the examples when you refer to somethings.. (e. 3 way or 2 way center channels), so one can learn!!! keep up
That's a good idea. I'll try and keep that in mind. Thanks for subscribing Vahid!
Do you have a link to the data you were showing? I'm curious if they have data on UST screens. Appreciate the videos!
Here ya go. www.accucalav.com/wp-content/uploads/accucal_front_projection_screen_report.pdf
Hi, great video! I have a 165 inches 1.4 gain screen but i did wrong room measurements. I place sofa 5 meters from the screen against the back wall and now i am calibrating sound I have been realized that sound is better if I am 1 meter and a half from back wall. So now I want to mask the screen to convert it in 145 inches. Also i win some foot lamberts /nits reducing the size (tw9400 projector). As soon I think on it you publish a video talking about this theme haha, great idea. Where did you place the other part of the magnets? Did you sticked them in the back part of the fabric of the screen? I want to be sure i dont want to spoil the fabric of the screen...
And which material did you used to make the pieces? Wood or metal for frames? and black fabric or black velvet? Thanks in advance. Kind regards mate!
The magnets are built into the screen frame by the manufacturer.
On YT you describe reference gray 2 with grain 0.7 and on the website it is 0.5, what is the correct value.
I don't remember referencing a reference grey and not sure what material that is. For any specific gain see if you can find 3rd party tests. I wouldn't use any manufacturer specs but 3rd party.
I know this is an older video but in case you are still monitoring had a masking question. I will be ordering a Seymour Premier 16x9 screen with the magnetic masking as you recommend. I will be using tower speakers for LCR behind screen and they will be raised enough so lowest driver clears the frame. I will still be within an adequate vertical listening window. However if I use masking the horizontal frames of the masking panel will likely partially block the lowest driver. It will be more significant for the center speaker since that is where the vertical frames of the 2 pieces meet and that will be right in front of driver. The lowest driver is crossed at 600Hz so it's possible with these long wavelengths there will be negligible audio impact. Alternatively Seymour can make a double height panel just for the top of the screen where there are no speakers and I would have to shift image down for scope content. Any thoughts on which way to go? Thanks.
Hey Jason. The have an acoustic masking option which is what i'm using. There is still a section of the framing of the panel that isn't acoustic. 600hz is low but not so low that the panel joint won't maybe effect the center. You can shift the center over a tad if needed. You won't notice a few degrees in center shift.
@@hometheatergurus Thanks - yes was going to do the AT masking as well. I think I'll do the top and bottom masking then rather than double height masking on top and shifting image. Better for second row sightlines as well that way. I can check center response with REW and slightly shift it off center as you suggest.
Is there a HUGE difference from a Silver Ticket AT screen to a Seymour Screen AT screen? Both Woven,. The price difference is around 1400
Steven, if one has lower 7.5ft ceilings, and some nice S-150 floor standing speakers that can't be put behind a wall, what is the largest 16:9 you could do opposed to a 120" 2.35:1 screen (53.5 deg VA)? It seems that a 125" 16:9 would be equal width but too tall for the ceiling right? 110" 16:9 (47.1 deg VA) might be the largest screen that will fit...
This smaller 16:9 would be giving up a width of 16", but gaining a height of 7.5". .maybe solution #3 would be a larger 125" 2.35:1 screen that would only bee 6" less height than the 110" 16:9 scren. .....or Would a custom 1.9 aspect ratio screen with masking panels make more sense?
With 16:9 i like to stay around 45 degrees as once I get over 48 some clients get fatigued. With scope i go 55-60 degrees wide. With a 16:9 at 15 the mains will flank the screen.
@@hometheatergurus gives me some to think about. Sounds like I should go a little bigger on the scope screen so that my 16x9 image is larger
im ordering my semour av screen mon or tues .... is the 10% discount code still good? i hope so any savings help . let me know thanks
Yep it still an active code. You can also call then to have it applied.
Hello sir, why don’t you use lens in front of projector. Both 16:9 and 2.4 :1 look better if I am not wrong sir.
That's not how that works. The lens is used to fill a widescreen using the entire panel of the projector. On a 16:9 screen you are already using the whole panel so you can't use a lens. Wide screens IMO are the sound bar of audio with the reasons discussed in the video.
@13:25 I can't make out what you are saying, did you refer to it as "duckboard"? (The insulation material behind the screen.) Is there a link to that?
Alternatively, can we use fiberglass insulation from Lowes/HD, and if so what R value do you recommend?
Yep, the ductboard is discussed in the earlier build updates and the acoustic treatment videos.
@@hometheatergurus Thanks. Which earlier updates? Can you share the Episode numbers?
@@gregorystevens5173 at the end of this video you'll see a pop up of a few videos. The bottom left is to the house build Playlist. They aren't episode's as I try to keep just teaching videos numbered. The one with the riser discusses it as do the following ones.
@@hometheatergurus Cool. Thank you!
What size screen did you go with and how far away are you seated?
This is a 140" diagonal from 13'. It's around 43 degrees viewing angle. I wanted a 150 but that was pushing it for the JVC RS2000.
In your opinion how far from speaker this Seymour XD screen should be ? I remember one episode of audioholic where they recommended 12” distance between screen and speakers.
I've measured with and without and up to an inch away. I really don't see a difference between an inch and 12". It's not like a perf that has a lot of acoustic issues to deal with.
@@hometheatergurus thanks
super bad design masking idea to install 2 black plates on the top and 2 on the bottom. film ratio is not just 16:9 format
I have a question. I am contemplating on building an acoustic screen instead of buying a new Seymour as a way to save money. What would you recommend I use for the frame? Also have you diy a screen before?
I've done several diy screens. Seymour actually sells diy material on their site which is what I've used.
I use 1x4s for the frames.
@@hometheatergurus yeah I have been to their site a few times. I want to pull the trigger and buy one, but I feel I can save some money and build one. I currently have a 120 inch screen and I want to go a little bigger. Thanks again for the response.
@@percybedford6266 the last one I built was 165" diagonal using the XD material.
It cost me around $330 for all materials. The one before that was a 135 and was around $260.
@@hometheatergurus thanks for the info. I'll look into it this weekend.
Question for you.
Did you ever consider using the Fabricmate system and stretching your own material for the screen? Curious on your thoughts here, thanks!
It's too thick to go into the track and if u did get it in there you'd tear it up if you ever removed it.
I have built a handful of diy screens using the seymour material as they have a diy section in their store.
my front seats are at 10.5 feet will i see texture or grain at my seating position?(planning center stage xd 16:9 159")
Yeah, with solid color parts of content. I know a few that claim they can't but I suspect they need to see the eye dr. ... 😄. Around 12' is where i can personally recommend it.
@@hometheatergurus how about 12-13 feet can 100%go for it? as live in INDIA i have to bring from US there should be no mistakes brother-thank you
AT screens are an option with compromises like everything else. Nothing is perfect and we all need to choose which comprises work best for our needs.
If you're making real compromises get a better at. The compromises should be almost none. With seymour XD for instance we still have superb gain and we aren't messing up the audio at all. But yes you must sit a certain distance away. Some AT screens will severally jack up auido.
@@hometheatergurus I have tested even the best AT from Seymour (including the xd) and Stewart and neither was as good as their non AT counterparts. I am not even talking about the sound but the image itself...dimmer which is an instant deal breaker for larger screens with a calibrated projector even great jvc ones.
There is no free meal. A good lcr setup can image realistically enough to fool your brain into anchoring the voices to the screen. If you use bad speakers or speakers with limited soundstage then of course it will be painfully obvious the voices are coming from the speakers.
So either way there will be se compromise so it's time to stop selling the AT option as the perfect option because is not. Is a trade off as is non AT
@@shaolin95 imo it is the perfect option and I'd never personally even consider a solid for a dedicated home theater. That's my opinion and mandatory in a performance based design. But again this is my opinion.
@@hometheatergurus it is the best fit for your preferences which is fine but perfect it aint. If it was PERFECT, there wouldnt be an impact to image or sound, from brightness, to texture visibility or holes if perforated, or contrast etc etc. Perfect implies a better option in every respect. You cannot seriously tell me that an AT screen IQ is every bit as good as a non AT, that is impossible because of how they are designed.
Its all about compromises and we choose where we want to compromise for our setups, simple as that.
@@shaolin95 sorry but we'll have to agree to do disagree, and that's OK. If your screen has the needed brightness and sound isn't compromised what more could you want? But sure a screen that's too large will be dim, AT or non and yes you do lose some light with AT so size accordingly and get a projector that can light it up. Losing light is not a compromise, it's a screen characteristic. If you're hitting your goals you will have no compromises. And no center under a large screen is going to compete with a matching vertical center behind the screen. You can tell even if you wish you couldn't. I once went through all of this and used to run mine under the screen. It's The most important speaker in the room, show it some respect... 😁
how is the diy spandex screen compared to this seymour. this costs 2000$ for 150inch diagonal right?it is way out of my budget. for sony 695es and to have good hdr performance and audio ,is spandex screen good?
They have screen material they sell to diyers. I've built a handful of them. The biggest was a 165" for around $320.
@@hometheatergurus is the diy material goes by the same name?center stage?does it has the same gain of 0.9 and accoustic properties as seen in your videos?
@@chandan6119 yes. it's the exact same material. Check out their website and click on the diy section.
@@hometheatergurus thank you
@@chandan6119 you're welcome!
Would you not recommend a scope screen with a projector that has lens memory? Most films are filmed in scope, so it seems to me that unless you watch lots of sport and/or animated shows or series, scope is the way to go.
Also, manually putting up masking panels on a 16:9 screen to watch scope content seems like a pain every time you want to watch and then take it down when it's regular 16:9. Your preference is to go 16:9, but if you plan in watching films and only films in a dedicated room, would you preference not change to scope?
It's personal preference but a scope makes other formats smaller and completely takes away from a directors intent when using ratio changes to change the mood of a scene. It's a powerful tool that any videophile would want to retain if they want to watch content as a director intended. Yes many movies are widescreen, but not all. Most of my clients watch a lot of series in their rooms as well as do I. Those are seldom widescreen. People use these rooms a lot differently than they did a decade ago. They want an immersive experience no matter what they watch. With a large 16:9 nothing is compromised. As for masking you don't have to use it but if you want to they work great and take seconds to install. These are my feelings and how I make sure my clients are happy and everything is comfortable yet immersive. I did two rooms with scope last year and both just watched their old collection of movies so for those two guys it made sense and it's what they wanted so that's what we did.
Loved Your Video!
I follow Audioholics as well & respect their expert viewpoints…
I live outside the states now & have limited in country home theater experts to work with.
I wonder if YOU do zoom consultations?
If possible, please send me a private message on UA-cam. Thank You In Advance For Your Time!
P
I can‘t wait for the future. In 10-15 years none of your arguments will be valid,because most of us will have video walls!
Yep one day that'll be the norm.
There is a Si-Fi short story by Ray Bradbury all about that. - He was such a visionary! You gotta check it out.
CARRRRRPET
That carpet is getting replaced next week. I'm obviously horrible at selecting carpet.. 😁🤦♂️. I explain in the next update video I'm currently editing.
I looking forward to a day when no masking is needed
How would that ever be possible even theoretical? Unless soundly watch content in only your native screen aspect ratio, you‘ll always have unused parts of the screen on top/bottom or sides. Even if your projector would throw 0 light there, you will always have reflections from your room back on theses parts of the screen. So masking is imho a MUST, it significantly improves the impression of the picture.
Anyhow the magnetic system shown here I consider as one of the worst solutions possible. It may look nice in the beginning, but use this for some years and you will surely see marks of the masking on the screen, and even if not that, you should keep,your hands REALLY clean before putting these on or taking them off, or you will leave marks on the screen with the years.
no one should be using a horizontal center behind the screen in a home theater...should always be a matching tower, LCR should be the exact same speaker
Did you learn that from this video.?.. Yep that's always a good rule of thumb which is why we discuss it so often😀
Captain Obvious..
Sorry but I have to say there is a lot of misinformation here and dramatics. For one, the XD is a horrible screen when it comes to the texture you see. If you have a 4K projector, you are destroying the fine detail. I've demonstrated this MANY times to clients. You are also comparing a non-ALR screen to Stewart's ALR screen, which are designed for drastically different situations. You'd be better talking about the ST100 or ST130 MP. You are also not talking about how much light you are losing from a weave vs a perf. Most weave screens are around a real gain of .7 (that don't impart a ton of visual issues like texture), which means you just loss a MINIMUM of 30% of your light. As for your attenuation issues, you took the absolute worse case scenario. You also are implying that attenuation of the HIGH FREQUENCY of the sound is going to take huge amounts of amplifier power to overcome when we both know that HF information isn't nearly as power dependent as the LF portion of the audio. Attenuation from perf screens has been a known variable for years now and is not hard to compensate for AT ALL. I had one of the head guys from the HAA here just recently and he said the same thing and said he'd do perf all day long over weave. I also think you are way off base with aspect stuff, but that is another conversation.
I mentioned most all of that including its the tweeter that would need most of the boosting. I mentioned the weave and how you shouldn't use it at certain distances as did accucal. I mentioned the light loss as well and gain. I didn't choose it best in the acoustic class nor say you should expect 6db loss from perf. Accucal did. Hopefully soon they'll have new test with newer screens.
The comment on the (alr) which I stated was alr was to show you can't trust manufacturer specs and to explain things to look for. It was not comparing its specs directly to another screen other than it was a claimed high gain but wasn't.
The chosing absolute worst possible was a $5k screen thought to be high end. It was just an example of a worst case scenario.
Thst video I mentioned had an ISF trainer that seems to have beliefs different than yours. If we can't trust an ISF calibration trainer and accucal results .. 🤷♂️.
I know a particular room designer (due to the fact you're hanging with possibly GL at HAA you probably know) that feels they have to use centers with very high handling tweeters like Triad Gold LCR to overcome the screen attenuation from perf.
I'm not trying to argue belive me there just seems to be a lot of evidence the other way. I'd love to actually have a sample of a perf of your choice to test. I'm absolutely open minded.
@@SeymourScreenExcellence is it really reduces sharpness? is xd screen texture so bad? is uf better for sharpness?
@@SeymourScreenExcellence this is the only negative comment i have seen for seymour screens.that to from the calibrator ,whose video you have posted in your channel.will there be sharpness difference between normal solid screen,xd and uf screens?
@@SeymourScreenExcellence that goes for a LOT of the info he spreads on this channel actually