Are Screen Masks Worthwhile in Home Theater?
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- Опубліковано 22 чер 2023
- Do you have a scope screen in your home theater? Do you use screen masks? Check out the impact that using screen masks has in my setup.
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#hometheater #homecinema #hometheatre - Наука та технологія
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For our theater, we purchased a Seymour 185" 16:9 acoustically transparent screen with "Enlightor" fabric and a motorized masking system that comes down from the top. We programmed different aspect ratios into our Savant automation system where the top mask drops down and then the screen raises up to create the applicable aspect ratio we need. We use it all of the time (when we are playing content that is not 16:9). Thanks for highlighting the benefits of masking. Wholeheartedly agree on the benefits and how masking adds to the immersive experience.
That's a perfect setup for a 16:9 masking system. Nice!
I’m surprised you didn’t go for Seymour’s new retro masking system that remotely pulls down. I’m considering possibly going with the new retro system. Plus it makes no physical contact with the screen. What are your thought on this?
Yeah, I maybe should checked that out more. I didn't want to spend a lot more on this though and that solution only allows masks of one size where with the panels I can have multiple sizes. I'm certain now in the long run I'll want an auto/controllable variable masking type screen. :)
I've been thinking about doing manual masking for my 16:9 screen, but with all the different scope formats, 2:35, 2.39, 2.40, etc. and now with movies changing aspect ratios mid movie, it seems like it doesn't make sense to do anything manual...
I agree an electronic/mechanical system that can stop at multiple points would be far superior to many manual option. I would look forward to having a CIH mechanical system eventually now.
I’ve got Seymour masks for my 140” 2.4 center stage Xd screen. It looks like your masks are solid velvet. Mine has just a 4” velvet strip then a different material for the remainder of the panel. Still solid black performance. Luckily I only need the 16:9 panels. 2.35 movies only have less than an inch gray bars and it’s not noticeable enough to be an issue. I’d say absolutely worth the investment.
Your panels may be made to be AT. I did not get AT panels because my speakers are inside the 16:9 footprint of my image.
@@Techthusiasm yep, that’s it! My L&r are just outside 16:9.
Is there such a thing like a smart masking panel connected to the screen or projector and that automatically adapts to the movie’s aspect ratio without the user has to manually fix it each time he wants to watch another movie ?
Yes, you can get auto masking systems. Seymour has some. I've love to have a horizontal motorized masking system for my CIH setup. Someday! If you're interested, I can get you connect with some dealer friends.
The 16:9 masking panel you have looks different than mine. I have an “acoustic transparent” version. Your panel looks to have a different “velvet” style of fabric. Is this what they’re offering now? Or is your panel non AT?
Correct. I did not go for AT panels, since my LR speakers are inside the 16:9 footprint of my screen image based on where I had to place them.
@@Techthusiasm ahhhh gotcha. I understand .
If you are usin an AT screen , doesn't this require placing the speakers closer to the inner side of the mask which will create a narrower front stage? or the mask also has a AT fabric ?
Yes, it is AT. My speakers are inside the footprint of the panels though. I don't really even use them much at all. I've relocated my projector, so I no longer need the 5" mini panels on the edges, and I'm also using an Envy video processor now. Most often anyway, we are watching wider than 16:9 content.
I have a Seymour Proscenium 2.4 CIH motorized masking screen that's the exact same size. With the flexibility to easily tune masking however I want, I found that the 2 main aspects I use are 2.4 and 1.89. I enable "zoom small black bars away" on MadVR PC. I'm sure the Envy has a similar option. All scope content gets zoomed to 2.4 with insignificant cropping. All 16:9-1.89 content gets zoomed to 1.89 with insignificant cropping. Due to the fact that we're zooming a rectangle, you can zoom the horizontal a lot with very little vertical cropping. Movies seem to be composed with this in mind, and I've never seen a case where I notice the vertical crop. On the other hand, I definitely enjoy and notice the larger screen, with no loss of brightness and no double border because you aren't using the full 4096 width (because you are!) So, my advice is to use that MadVR option, discard the 5" masking panels, and get some 1.89 masking panels. You can experiment with this setup with MadVR before you get the panels, and I suspect you'll see what I mean. ;)
You have the grail setup there with the CIH motorized scope screen and a processor. Tinkering with these panels really makes that my goal now.
@@Techthusiasm pros and cons. Similar to scope, you solve 1 problem only to create 2 new problems. See my comment above to Ron James. My next screen might be a larger 1.3 gain fixed screen. Grass is always greener!
This hobby is nothing but trade-offs and choosing between lots of options with their own pros and cons.
@@Techthusiasm scope is cool, but it's an incredible Pandora's box of tradeoffs. Anamorphic lenses, display processors, smaller 16:9 content, messed up variable aspect ratio content. If I had known about all that up front, I think I would have gotten a much larger, higher gain, 1.89 aspect ratio screen (to match the JVC chip.)
@@Techthusiasm after using MadVR (PC) and a motorized masking screen, here's the bottom line for scope: In terms of convenience, I'd definitely rank a video processor higher than motorized masking.
Do you have any concern about the masking panels wearing down the material on the frame for the screen overtime? From either installation or vibration. Where the panels make contact with the frame. I've been thinking about doing a diy version. I'm probably just overthinking it.
I don't think there any concern using the panels related to the integrity of the screen material.
Just guessing, but probably less of a concern for PVC or PVC coated screens like XD than for an uncoated fabric screen.
I got a 16:9 screen and mask for 2:40 / 2:35. Once you use masking, you can't watch without them anymore imo.
The only way to really do this effectively is with a16:9 screen that has electronic masking to accommodate all the aspect ratios, which continue to evolve. But that's pricey.
Well, I think you can effectively go either way - CIH or CIW. The best solution in either case is a variable/controllable electronic masking system that can stop at multiple points depending on the content. It wouldn't matter if that mask moves up/down or left/right from either side.
@@Techthusiasm Yep, but $$$$ to di it right, and perhaps a wall rebuild as well.
I got the 16:9 maskers for my Seymour at purchase time and loved using them. Once I got my Lumagen, they’ve been collecting dust in my closet. Hehe. But at times if I’m binging on a specific 16:9 content I break them out.
Do you use smart stretch?
@@scottybjorlin3821 I seldomly use NLS. I do at times if the content is in native 2:1 caise it’s less of a stretch but I seldom NLS 16:9. . I however do have my Lumagen auto scale 16:9 to 2:1 so my gray bars are smaller any time I’m watching 16:9.
Yeah, having a Lumagen or madVR would effectively negate the need to use the 16:9 panels, but for my projector right now, I'd still want to use the 5" per side panels. That's all I actually tried to buy, but I ended up with the 16:9 panels too due an ordering error.
@@Techthusiasm sweeeet. Now you get to have both options. Win win. Hehehe
@@Techthusiasm Can you help me understand why having a video processor negates the need for the 16x9 panels? I have a MadVR Envy in my system, but we still have the gray bars on the sides for 16x9 content, even though the MadVR does the ratio adjustment automatically. If I used NLS (which I don't) I could see why the need for panels goes away, but I still think about getting a masking system to frame in the 16x9 TV content we sometimes watch. Thanks.
I have a question for people that use Screen Masks. What do you do with movies that have changing aspect ratios through the movie. I know that is not the norm, but there are movies out there that have changing aspect ratios. What do you do for those movies?
Me personally (I have 16x9 native screen) I leave my masking panel off if I know I have a changing aspect ratio movie It’s few and far in between tho
For Aquaman, I ended up changing it back and forth, since the change was only a handful of times throughout the movie. This is annoying and I regrettably try to avoid these movies- is it Christopher Nolan who’s a big on changing aspect?
@@otherjedi9244 yeah Christopher Nolen. Now tom cruise is getting on it with the mission impossible movies too
In this case, to maximize a scope screen, you would just zoom and mask and watch the movie in 2.4 ratio. It works fine. I should do a video on this concept as a few folks have asked this question.
The masks definitely make a difference.
Yeah, I couldn't live without my Carada remote-controlled CIH masking system. It has pre-sets for 16:9 and 2.35, but if its anything in-between, you have to fiddle it (as well as lens control). Was a relatively affordable system in its day, but unfortunately the company went out of business a few years ago, so I really don't know what I'd do if it broke down. Kind of a side note, it's amazing how much streaming content (made for the mainstream services like, Netflix) is in these weird aspect ratios, when 99% of the viewers can only run 16:9. And even beyond the uncommon aspect ratios, how lucky are we -- the less than 1% who have 2.35 screens -- that there's all this scope content out there -- most movies, even streamed -- that the 99% have to suffer through the black bars, but we can watch properly?
Yeah, a lot of premium produced TV series on the serves nowadays are in scope or wider than 16:9. Great for folks with scope theaters.
I have a 16:9 screen I want to mask. I did the top it’s perfect but I can’t work out the bottom
With a 16:9 screen and masking top/bottom for scope stuff, I'd recommend shifting your image down to the screen bottom for that kind of content and then you only need to mask one section instead of two. Use a lens memory in your projector to do that.
some people swear by a top-only mask for a 2.0 aspect ratio. One ring to rule them all?
The less manual finagling, the better, for sure. :)
@@Techthusiasm yeah but i dont have a lens memory
Ah, so you're stuck then having to mask both sections independently.
I feel it is not worth. What if you have movies like aquaman and dark knight and interstellar etc… these are variable aspect ratios. What do you do in this case
Most folks, myself includes, with scope screens just zoom or set to watch those movies a fixed scope ratio and mask off the the rest. This is a fine solution to maximize our screen use while not having jarring transitions. The movies are framed properly to present in scope ratios anyway for wide theatrical release.
Not sure why you didn't just buy Seymour's own masking system. I know it costs some coin but if you feel it made that much of a difference, buy once cry once.
These are Seymour masks that I bought, but maybe I will look into the new mechanical retro fit system later on. We'll see.
Orrrr, you can build a mad vr. Especially since you already game.
A PC custom madVR setup doesn't really appeal to me. By default, that set up is really only good out of the box for tone mapping content played off the PC. I don't play any content in my theater off my PC, and I'm not interested in the extra time/complexity/usability challenges of building it out to do more. If I did a madVR setup, I'd look to own an Envy.
@@Techthusiasm black jack capture card allows pass through to work like the envy. But I feel you. The envy is definitely more friendly
It's either spend the time or spend the money. :)
@@Techthusiasm keep in mind that an Envy adds 200ms latency, which is virtually unplayable. You'd need to plan an alternate signal path for games.
@@Techthusiasm MadVR PC is a big chunk of time to get working well. It's not like you can just spend a weekend following steps. More like multiple weeks of tweaking and troubleshooting.
The entertainment industry sucks. Why not just do 16:9 for all Home content? Movies at the cinema have a life span of a housefly. Format the film for the environment where they'll be viewed decades after they leave the theater.
Because the director/creator's intent should be respected.
I still remember 'Dances with wolves' in 4:3 (and VHS) as one painful experience.
Boo! All scope. :)
I have the same system except it’s to turn my 16x9 to wide screen and it is a tad annoying to switch them in and out so lately I’ve been leaving them up and work thru the menus with the top and bottom cut off til the movie starts. But def gonna get a auto mask from Seymour once I’m in a “forever” house so I don’t have to move it anytime soon once it’s up
There are a lot of hoops to jump through nowadays in home theater with so many audio and video formats...
@@Rob_James keep in mind that the motorized screens are heavy and have a thick frame. That has two major downsides: 1) It's much harder to remove the screen in order to access behind the screen. Moving it is a piece of cake with a standard frame. 2) The projector needs to be within the frame in order to avoid the frame casting a shadow, which affects your entire room plans. So, you trade 1 problem for 2 problems. :(
I wouldn’t lay them on the floor because “accidents” will happen! Prop them up against the back wall where there’s less traffic.👴🏽
I agree. They should be save right up against the front wall. No one has any reason to be up that close to the screen in the room. :) I'd be afraid too of clipping a wall or panel or something to have to squeeze behind the couch everything time I wanted to use them or put them away, so there's a risk in either case. :)