I think that blinding yourself on or refusing to watch media that depicts difficult themes is not the solution. The messages in sex education (I didn't watch euphoria so i'm not gonna say anything about it, though I will say from what I heard, Levinson is definitly a polarizing figure) are definitely themes that are important to take into account into romance, healthy relationships, and can be well presented, especially in the first and second season. Now for the old movie, you said that art is a major influence on how a society views the themes being depicted, in that instance romance. And that is where I fundamentally disagree. Because what you call "propaganda" now, is the exact same thing in Seven Brides. But since you seem to agree with the message of the film, or at least of the romance being depicted in it, I think you either fail to see, or prefer to ignore the same "propaganda" that it feeds you. Seven Brides conveys a different way to "court" women, and how men/women relationships worked. The themes of consent, equal responsibility in house chores, respect, gender roles... are all very dated. They adhere to a very old-fashioned way of seeing heterosexual relationships, and feel "fresh" because they make it seem like it was heaven. But like the bleakness of euphoria, it doesn't show how housewifes in the 50's-60's were all on antidepressant because they were deeply unhappy with their life, and catered women to very specific tasks and attitudes that the feminist movement has shown to be the deeply oppresive and unfulfilling for those under it. Now for a man today, what seems to be depicted in Seven Brides may seem appealing, but its very happy appearance may make it look , and is more insidious in its messages, and guides male behaviour in harmful ways, ways that our society has deemed outdated and generally harmful, for both man and woman. I recommend *Pop Culture Detective* to have a deeper look in the harmful ideas that these films can propogate.
You're wrong on a few counts there: 1. I outright call Seven Brides propaganda in the video, referencing the idea that ALL art tries to influence our perspectives. I don't actually believe that Seven Brides or Euphoria are 'propaganda' - strictly speaking. But undiscerning people will take the wrong messages from both. My point is that if you could only watch one of them you'd be better off watching the positive, exaggerated depiction of courting and marriage. 2. I don't know how you interpreted the video as my advocating for refusing to expose yourself to difficult themes. That has nothing to do with the essay. I love movies that challenge my perspectives. 3. There's nothing wrong with dated depictions of romance, especially those as comical as what's in Seven Brides. Women, especially teenage girls, are more depressed and suicidal now than ever before. That's heavily owed to social media; but also hookup culture - which is a product of the sexual revolution. 4. Where is the evidence that "all" housewives were on anti-depressants during the 1950s and '60s? That's an absurd claim to make. Many women feel extremely fulfilled taking care of their families at home and, today especially, regret focusing so heavily on their career and not settling down sooner. 5. The fact that our society has deemed Seven Brides' depiction of masculinity as harmful is part of our moral decay. The men in that movie are excellent, if caricatured, examples of masculinity. They get into fights very easily, until a woman teaches them proper etiquette, and then they turn the other cheek when provoked at the barn raising until the eldest brother, Adam, is targeted. The film implies that men and women need each other to be fulfilled - a pro-family message executed in light-hearted and endearing way. If you think that's an insidious depiction of masculinity then I'd like you to provide an example of a positive depiction of masculinity from media.
@@LUMOSHROOM First of all, I admit my "housewives antidepressant is overly exagerated, and I have tried modifying it, but youtube doesn't seem to be letting me do it. After doing a bit of research, I will say that it's not entirely wrong, but definitely not as I have portrayed it in my comment. The basis of your argument is what's known as "False dilemma fallacy". This entire video isn't recommending to watch Seven Brides because it's a good movie, you're making it seem like watchning both and enjoying both is a mutually exclusive thing, it is not ("if you could watch only one"). You are much more harsh with Euphoria, even if you seem to adress the criticism of Seven Brides. Someone with a opposite bias would do the same exact logical fallacy, and I would find it just as misleading. Your vision of femininity and masculinity is, again, very biased. First of all, saying women wanting to stay at home and have kids is something I often see said from men. Yes, I'm sure that it is true to an extent, but as I generalized with antidepressants, you're just making an assumption that serves your point, and to which you have no basis except that it conforms to your worldview, or cherrypicked examples of that claim, I could just as easily say the exact opposite. As for masculinity, I recommend "MEN - Contrapoints" to see how the issue is more complicated than just positive representation. Words have their importance, and what I am critizising isn't "Masculinity" as an absolut, but the notion that masculinity as perceived today and in Seven Brides is a form of "toxic masculinity". Masculinity isn't inherntly bad, but the form it has taken is shaped by the centuries of patriarchical domination, just as the feminine role depicted in Seven Brides, are harmful to everyone involved (recommend trying to look up feminist theory, just for more context, I recommend feminist comics, they're an easy digest and pretty entertaining on their own) From what I can gather from your vision of masculinity, even if non-toxic masculinity is represented, you would find it underwelming, since you clearly expect your own vision to be comforted against the "moral decay" you keep bringing up, whatever that is supposed to mean. So see "The Big Sick", a rom-com with an actual respectful male protagonist, that respects boundaries and doesn't aggresively pursue women as a "joke". And again, "Pop culture Detective" is much more well-spoken than me on these topics
@@mathiasglenat9908 Contrapoints can't even give a clear definition of degeneracy so I wouldn't listen to her opinion on this matter. I challenge you to define toxic masculinity. (It's a misandristic lie by the way.) I'm not portraying Euphoria and Seven Brides as the only two options so it's not a false dilemma. As I say in the video, art influences us at a cultural level. These two works are examples I cherrypicked because of how extremely different they are. The video speaks for itself. I'm not trying to mislead anyone. Your argument isn't very compelling otherwise. I don't validate feminist theory or the other ideological language you use. Men are stronger than women and have been for all of human history. That biological reality bleeds through to the governance of societies. Give an example of a successful matriarchy, maybe? One that has survived over time and benefited women as much as our current patriarchies have and continue to do? You assume I would find certain portrayals of masculinity underwhelming but you clearly have no idea what my standards are. I value all types of depictions of characters in fiction - nuanced, stereotypical, exaggerated or underwhelming. It all depends on execution.
Unfortunately I think this discussion is a dead end, we both clearly have very different points of view on this issue, and it seems you aren’t inclined to look further into my own position (again, Pop Culture Detective, Contrapoints, The Big Sick, and feminist literature in the form of comics). I watched your video, knowing I wouldn’t agree, and props to you for actually starting a discussion and talking about it, but now without actually talking it out in real life this is just gonna be a back and forth. Hope your channel is gonna do good
@@mathiasglenat9908 You're choosing to end the discussion here. I'm open to having my mind changed but you haven't defined some important terms and keep referring to other creators to make your arguments for you. What, specifically, from Pop Culture Detective should I watch and listen to? And regarding toxic masculinity: it's a nebulous buzzword designed to sow division; not to clarify anything or solve real world issues. Any 'toxically masculine' trait would be just as toxic if a woman were guilty of it. Even though men and women are different, poor character is universal. The fact that you recommend vague feminist literature and can't even define toxic masculinity means you're not going to get through to anyone who thinks for themselves; let alone holds an opposing worldview.
As a fan of degenerate art, I'm actually happy to see this kind of opposing view on UA-cam. People need to admit to themselves that there has been a shift in how we date and treat people. Men want a girl who looks like Kylie Jenner, (if you want a hot girl ok thats fine) but don't expect the hot girl to automatically cook, clean and be the mentally stable person you expected. Men also need to understand that women need emotional and physical support. Help her clean the house and cook dinner for her too and most importantly communicate your needs and expectations BEFORE getting married.
For all those who will protest that Euphoria is intended to explore traumatic themes in a manner therapeutic for those suffering from the same issues in real life, or that it’s trying to educate people on the dangers of such ideas and behaviors, “Requiem For A Dream” released in 2000 and is ACTUALLY concerned with portraying the horrors of addiction and moral decay. Euphoria glamorizes mental illness and dysfunctional relationships. Requiem For A Dream showcases a side of substance abuse few other works have in an especially grounded way. Even Trainspotting does a better job of covering addiction and it balances its grave subject matter with charming characters without ever portraying degeneracy as appealing or picturesque. I’m sincerely sorry if you think Euphoria is an admirable piece of media. It’s the product of a corrupt artistic culture that aims to exploit the cast and audience. That’s not to say that no good will come of it; because, as I’ve said in the past, we can all learn from a bad example.
no, Euphoria does exactly none of those things, and i guarantee you didn't watch this show with any other intent than to find reasons to either poke holes where it's not ABSOLUTELY teflon, or else you didn't watch the show at all, and read merely a description on Wikipedia, or else you heard about it briefly in synopsis form from your right wing puritanical clown show dorky asshole buddies. and no, you won't change my mind.
I LOVE "Seven Brides for Seven Brothers". Its one of my favorite musicals. However, it shouldn't be compared to Euphoria. Euphoria is a DRAMA at the end of the day. Seven Brides for Seven Brothers, is closer to a romantic comedy/musical. It would be like comparing the Godfather to The Little Mermaid. Euphoria isn't about romance at all. I hate Euphoria, but I don't think it's fair to compare the two. The movies are two completely different genres.
They are completely different - you're right on that. And I find it strange how we have so many stories like Euphoria nowadays (Gone Girl, Call Me By Your Name, 13 Reasons Why etc.) and so few like Seven Brides. The video is by no means a direct comparison; but rather a look at how the different eras perceive romance.
the beginning of this video was really refreshing. i dont think enough people stop to really consider how much the media they consume subconsciously impacts them. im so sick of seeing so many toxic relationships in media/ in music personally.
It's really demoralizing. It's not like wholesome family movies disappeared completely but they're so overshadowed by these jaded, depressing broken family stories now. It's almost sinister how prevalent they are.
i enjoyed euphoria at a really hard time in my life. in retrospect, there were definitely themes that are upsetting when looked at through a macro lens, however i do think it was largely young adults speaking about young adult experiences. the fact that the characters themselves are high schoolers is ridiculous but is an issue of the broader culture. euphoria didnt exist in a vacuum, and media is always reflective. the series did a great job at creating sustained suspension of disbelief making it easier to resonate with characters. looking at euphoia only as a form of propogana diminishes space for art that communicates experience rather than coercion. not perfect media but what is.
Completely agree with the message of your video. Although I grew up in the eighties/nineties, I spent most of my childhood watching old classic movies. The women in those films expected to be treated with gentleness and respect as a matter of course. And men who expressed their masculinity in a positive way were rewarded and appreciated. I’m not saying that everything back in those days was perfect, but I think those movies can still teach us a lot about what to aim for. If you’re interested in another old classic that perfectly exemplifies what I’m talking about I would check out Ivanhoe ( 1952). It’s full of chivalry and romance and positive examples of masculinity/femininity. Also has some surprisingly good action sequences ! If you’re interested in another classic movie that I think really exemplifies what I’m talking about I would check out Ivanhoe (1952). It’s full of romance and chivalry and great examples of masculinity/femininity.
Feminism has ruined gender dynamics; maybe beyond repair. Women want men to pursue them. Not abduct them, no, but make a show of how desirable they find the women. Seven Brides exaggerates all aspects of courtship to comical degrees and does so in a wholesome way. Euphoria exaggerates delinquent high school culture to an exploitative degree. For all the issues you can find with Seven Brides you cannot say that it's encouraging young people to engage in dangerous activities. And anyone who truly believes that Seven Brides gets its message across in an irresponsible way either doesn't have a sense of humor or wasn't paying attention while watching it.
@@LUMOSHROOM yay! A luscious reply! Well, imo, feminism was needed, and it's still neccesary in parts where women have no rights. And while there seems to be a woke, liberal mess, let's not forget that for every tesis, there's an antithesis, and then there's synthesis. I do not like Euphoria either, but I don't agreed with your choice of movie. And there can be better representations of what you think is missing in this moment, the fun of dating.
@@catrocastre8215 This comment section is full of examples so let's keep them coming. I already cited Overboard (1987) so what movies or shows do you think capture that positive side of dating in a better way?
I absolutely LOVE this video and I love the comparisons you are drawing, but I must say you are wrong about cynical, degenerate art being a modern invention. The work of Tennessee Williams comes to mind. Plays such as “A Streetcar Named Desire” and the like definitely existed, and I believe that movie was popular at the time and even might have won awards. I don’t think it was mostly celebrated and awarded by a niche Hollywood audience, but it still existed. Still, I enjoy the sentiment and values you are promoting in this video and please keep it up!
Fair point. I don't believe degenerate art is a modern invention but I didn't really make that clear in the video. The modern media landscape is, however, sorely lacking in wholesome fiction. And the ratio of endearing romantic stories to disenchanting ones is very skewed.
Euphoria hit high school culture like crack hit low-income neighborhoods in the 80s. Props to you for calling it out. I wouldn't call 7 bride for 7 brothers "wholesome," though I understand where you're coming from. I think the modern sensibilities against the film that you mentioned are very valid. I think the golden age of wholesome + modern that could be a better reference is the 1900s-2010s where romance (at least in the movies and shows I've seen) struck a balance of being authentic and respectful of what it portrayed (difficulties of a relationship but ALSO how they are properly dealt with). The first examples of this coming to mind are the shows Castle and Leverage. If i were to pick a movie to recommend romance writers exploring trauma watch I would suggest Good Will Hunting. While its not 100% a romance, the parts that are is basically Euphoria with a therapist, the Age of Consent, and good writing. (ok only in broad strokes but euphoria is so out there its kinda hard to find anything similar enough to compare it to)
Good Will Hunting is S-Tier so I'm with you on that. However I think the 2000s are too saturated with sex comedies to be considered wholesome. Movies like Overboard from the 80s strike a better balance but I'm probably biased. There are some good family movies from the 2000s as well so I take your point.
I love Junji Ito's work - that's most of the manga I've ever read. But manga and anime have the same range of wholesome and degenerate subject matter that every medium has.
@@LUMOSHROOM Yes by range, no by output. There's so much PG sport and romance. Ito's great, glad he's mainstream. 🦈🌬️👃 Gyo so good. I recommend Kokou No Hito - or The Climber. Nothing to do with romance, it's just great. 🧗♂️
Rue becomes an addict after her father dies. He has flashback scenes all throughout the first season. I doubt you watched it in its entirety if you managed to forget that. 🤔 I’m not a huge fan of the show either, but this ‘commentary’ seems like a grift.
@@thetruth45678 I’m just a regular person on the internet. Lol. I don’t have any clients. I made this account years ago and put “VEVO” at the end of the name because I was only ever watching music videos. Either way, the grift is obvious.
@@LoneWulf278 Genuine people don't show up 10 minutes within a video being posted with a novella of political BS ready-made and waiting to undermine a tiny channel like this. Paid shills, like you, do. It has nothing to do with the VEVO tag in your name, sugar. Your actions speak loud enough. Get lost.
You’re saying all this as if the movie-makers in the 50’s weren’t heavily restricted by the Hays Code. The era had flaws, they just couldn’t show them. I’m also guessing you’ve never heard of How To Marry A Millionaire (about gold diggers), Breakfast At Tiffany’s (about a male pr0stitute and a party girl), Imitation of Life (about self-hatred and single motherhood *gasp*), The Seven Year Itch (about marriage and temptation), and basically anything with Bette Davis and Elizabeth Taylor. They always played crazy women in messed up situations. And their movies were highly successful. Those are the roles that made them stars in that era. It seems like you’re cherry-picking because you have other gripes with the modern world and using art to discuss it. Aspirational or feel-good media is definitely lacking. I’ll give you that. But superhero movies are pretty good at portraying positive pro-social values, both romantic and otherwise. Considering how popular and beloved they are, I doubt there’s sufficient reason for alarmism. There’s always Disney Channel. 😂
"Popular" hahahaha!! Superhero movies are DOA. Disney? Disney is the reason all our iconic franchises are ruined. Go flaunt your woke BS somewhere else.
@@thetruth45678 People are still watching superhero movies. Disney Channel/Nickelodeon shows are clean and aspirational. That’s the point. Nobody watches an HBO show looking for clean, family-friendly fun. It’s the same platform with The Sopranos and Game of Thrones. Be serious. And PLEASE find another response besides “woke”. The word means nothing and you know it. Do better.
@@LoneWulf278I mean yeah but not nearly as many. And as for Disney they can't keep a show or director around long enough due to the amount of failed movies they've had. After Endgame it's all kind of went downhill, as well as star wars, and just about any Disney franchise, probably why they can't stop remaking old films with new paint jobs, or why they keep cramming every new show with nostalgia at every turn. And you know I agree on the word woke, it has just about as much meaning as racism at this point.
@@rexnas8150 Disney’s box office success or movie quality is another conversation. My point was that they still have wholesome and family-friendly content on their main channel. HBO is not where you go to see wholesome media. The woke AND anti-woke nonsense is old and meaningless.
Its funny how people act like Euphoria is over dramatized, clearly non of you have lived in a small town where there is nothing to do but party and do drugs 💀
Dude make a drawing and start learning art, learn an instrument or maybe a new language, study, read, go to the cafe with friends, play a sport or learn martial arts, learn about religion, do some charity, write a poem, go play bowlling with friends, go to a concert, get a summer job, go out and make friends. All things you can do in a small town without a cellphone or internet. You can not tell me the only thing you could do was drugs and party till you drop.
How many teenagers do you know who break into college student's apartments to beat and blackmail them? Euphoria doesn't just portray people partying hard - Project X is a fun example of that type of story - it selectively focuses on the most scandalous and disturbing aspects of its characters' dysfunctional relationships and portrays them in deliberately shocking ways. And then the tonal whiplash hits when Rue breaks the fourth wall to give a drawn-out lecture on dick pics or play detective. Not just silly but immersion-breaking.
Hi I come from a background like that. Yes it does happen and I've been a part of it but that definitly isn't a significant majority of students nor is it something that should be borderline glorified and promoted in A SHOW WITH A TEEN DEMOGRAPHIC. I have met middle schoolers who watched Euphoria and let me tell you that fucked them up severely.
I don't think it's a "role model" piece but that won't stop undiscerning people from taking the wrong messages from it. Maybe you've never met people who proudly proclaim to be like Bojack Horseman or Rick Sanchez but I have.
I think that blinding yourself on or refusing to watch media that depicts difficult themes is not the solution. The messages in sex education (I didn't watch euphoria so i'm not gonna say anything about it, though I will say from what I heard, Levinson is definitly a polarizing figure) are definitely themes that are important to take into account into romance, healthy relationships, and can be well presented, especially in the first and second season.
Now for the old movie, you said that art is a major influence on how a society views the themes being depicted, in that instance romance. And that is where I fundamentally disagree. Because what you call "propaganda" now, is the exact same thing in Seven Brides. But since you seem to agree with the message of the film, or at least of the romance being depicted in it, I think you either fail to see, or prefer to ignore the same "propaganda" that it feeds you.
Seven Brides conveys a different way to "court" women, and how men/women relationships worked. The themes of consent, equal responsibility in house chores, respect, gender roles... are all very dated. They adhere to a very old-fashioned way of seeing heterosexual relationships, and feel "fresh" because they make it seem like it was heaven. But like the bleakness of euphoria, it doesn't show how housewifes in the 50's-60's were all on antidepressant because they were deeply unhappy with their life, and catered women to very specific tasks and attitudes that the feminist movement has shown to be the deeply oppresive and unfulfilling for those under it.
Now for a man today, what seems to be depicted in Seven Brides may seem appealing, but its very happy appearance may make it look , and is more insidious in its messages, and guides male behaviour in harmful ways, ways that our society has deemed outdated and generally harmful, for both man and woman.
I recommend *Pop Culture Detective* to have a deeper look in the harmful ideas that these films can propogate.
You're wrong on a few counts there:
1. I outright call Seven Brides propaganda in the video, referencing the idea that ALL art tries to influence our perspectives. I don't actually believe that Seven Brides or Euphoria are 'propaganda' - strictly speaking. But undiscerning people will take the wrong messages from both. My point is that if you could only watch one of them you'd be better off watching the positive, exaggerated depiction of courting and marriage.
2. I don't know how you interpreted the video as my advocating for refusing to expose yourself to difficult themes. That has nothing to do with the essay. I love movies that challenge my perspectives.
3. There's nothing wrong with dated depictions of romance, especially those as comical as what's in Seven Brides. Women, especially teenage girls, are more depressed and suicidal now than ever before. That's heavily owed to social media; but also hookup culture - which is a product of the sexual revolution.
4. Where is the evidence that "all" housewives were on anti-depressants during the 1950s and '60s? That's an absurd claim to make. Many women feel extremely fulfilled taking care of their families at home and, today especially, regret focusing so heavily on their career and not settling down sooner.
5. The fact that our society has deemed Seven Brides' depiction of masculinity as harmful is part of our moral decay. The men in that movie are excellent, if caricatured, examples of masculinity.
They get into fights very easily, until a woman teaches them proper etiquette, and then they turn the other cheek when provoked at the barn raising until the eldest brother, Adam, is targeted.
The film implies that men and women need each other to be fulfilled - a pro-family message executed in light-hearted and endearing way.
If you think that's an insidious depiction of masculinity then I'd like you to provide an example of a positive depiction of masculinity from media.
@@LUMOSHROOM
First of all, I admit my "housewives antidepressant is overly exagerated, and I have tried modifying it, but youtube doesn't seem to be letting me do it. After doing a bit of research, I will say that it's not entirely wrong, but definitely not as I have portrayed it in my comment.
The basis of your argument is what's known as "False dilemma fallacy". This entire video isn't recommending to watch Seven Brides because it's a good movie, you're making it seem like watchning both and enjoying both is a mutually exclusive thing, it is not ("if you could watch only one"). You are much more harsh with Euphoria, even if you seem to adress the criticism of Seven Brides. Someone with a opposite bias would do the same exact logical fallacy, and I would find it just as misleading.
Your vision of femininity and masculinity is, again, very biased. First of all, saying women wanting to stay at home and have kids is something I often see said from men. Yes, I'm sure that it is true to an extent, but as I generalized with antidepressants, you're just making an assumption that serves your point, and to which you have no basis except that it conforms to your worldview, or cherrypicked examples of that claim, I could just as easily say the exact opposite.
As for masculinity, I recommend "MEN - Contrapoints" to see how the issue is more complicated than just positive representation. Words have their importance, and what I am critizising isn't "Masculinity" as an absolut, but the notion that masculinity as perceived today and in Seven Brides is a form of "toxic masculinity". Masculinity isn't inherntly bad, but the form it has taken is shaped by the centuries of patriarchical domination, just as the feminine role depicted in Seven Brides, are harmful to everyone involved (recommend trying to look up feminist theory, just for more context, I recommend feminist comics, they're an easy digest and pretty entertaining on their own)
From what I can gather from your vision of masculinity, even if non-toxic masculinity is represented, you would find it underwelming, since you clearly expect your own vision to be comforted against the "moral decay" you keep bringing up, whatever that is supposed to mean.
So see "The Big Sick", a rom-com with an actual respectful male protagonist, that respects boundaries and doesn't aggresively pursue women as a "joke".
And again, "Pop culture Detective" is much more well-spoken than me on these topics
@@mathiasglenat9908 Contrapoints can't even give a clear definition of degeneracy so I wouldn't listen to her opinion on this matter.
I challenge you to define toxic masculinity. (It's a misandristic lie by the way.)
I'm not portraying Euphoria and Seven Brides as the only two options so it's not a false dilemma. As I say in the video, art influences us at a cultural level. These two works are examples I cherrypicked because of how extremely different they are. The video speaks for itself. I'm not trying to mislead anyone.
Your argument isn't very compelling otherwise. I don't validate feminist theory or the other ideological language you use. Men are stronger than women and have been for all of human history. That biological reality bleeds through to the governance of societies. Give an example of a successful matriarchy, maybe? One that has survived over time and benefited women as much as our current patriarchies have and continue to do?
You assume I would find certain portrayals of masculinity underwhelming but you clearly have no idea what my standards are. I value all types of depictions of characters in fiction - nuanced, stereotypical, exaggerated or underwhelming. It all depends on execution.
Unfortunately I think this discussion is a dead end, we both clearly have very different points of view on this issue, and it seems you aren’t inclined to look further into my own position (again, Pop Culture Detective, Contrapoints, The Big Sick, and feminist literature in the form of comics). I watched your video, knowing I wouldn’t agree, and props to you for actually starting a discussion and talking about it, but now without actually talking it out in real life this is just gonna be a back and forth. Hope your channel is gonna do good
@@mathiasglenat9908 You're choosing to end the discussion here. I'm open to having my mind changed but you haven't defined some important terms and keep referring to other creators to make your arguments for you.
What, specifically, from Pop Culture Detective should I watch and listen to?
And regarding toxic masculinity: it's a nebulous buzzword designed to sow division; not to clarify anything or solve real world issues. Any 'toxically masculine' trait would be just as toxic if a woman were guilty of it. Even though men and women are different, poor character is universal.
The fact that you recommend vague feminist literature and can't even define toxic masculinity means you're not going to get through to anyone who thinks for themselves; let alone holds an opposing worldview.
As a fan of degenerate art, I'm actually happy to see this kind of opposing view on UA-cam. People need to admit to themselves that there has been a shift in how we date and treat people. Men want a girl who looks like Kylie Jenner, (if you want a hot girl ok thats fine) but don't expect the hot girl to automatically cook, clean and be the mentally stable person you expected. Men also need to understand that women need emotional and physical support. Help her clean the house and cook dinner for her too and most importantly communicate your needs and expectations BEFORE getting married.
For all those who will protest that Euphoria is intended to explore traumatic themes in a manner therapeutic for those suffering from the same issues in real life, or that it’s trying to educate people on the dangers of such ideas and behaviors, “Requiem For A Dream” released in 2000 and is ACTUALLY concerned with portraying the horrors of addiction and moral decay.
Euphoria glamorizes mental illness and dysfunctional relationships. Requiem For A Dream showcases a side of substance abuse few other works have in an especially grounded way.
Even Trainspotting does a better job of covering addiction and it balances its grave subject matter with charming characters without ever portraying degeneracy as appealing or picturesque.
I’m sincerely sorry if you think Euphoria is an admirable piece of media. It’s the product of a corrupt artistic culture that aims to exploit the cast and audience. That’s not to say that no good will come of it; because, as I’ve said in the past, we can all learn from a bad example.
no, Euphoria does exactly none of those things, and i guarantee you didn't watch this show with any other intent than to find reasons to either poke holes where it's not ABSOLUTELY teflon, or else you didn't watch the show at all, and read merely a description on Wikipedia, or else you heard about it briefly in synopsis form from your right wing puritanical clown show dorky asshole buddies.
and no, you won't change my mind.
I LOVE "Seven Brides for Seven Brothers". Its one of my favorite musicals. However, it shouldn't be compared to Euphoria. Euphoria is a DRAMA at the end of the day. Seven Brides for Seven Brothers, is closer to a romantic comedy/musical. It would be like comparing the Godfather to The Little Mermaid. Euphoria isn't about romance at all. I hate Euphoria, but I don't think it's fair to compare the two. The movies are two completely different genres.
They are completely different - you're right on that. And I find it strange how we have so many stories like Euphoria nowadays (Gone Girl, Call Me By Your Name, 13 Reasons Why etc.) and so few like Seven Brides.
The video is by no means a direct comparison; but rather a look at how the different eras perceive romance.
the beginning of this video was really refreshing. i dont think enough people stop to really consider how much the media they consume subconsciously impacts them. im so sick of seeing so many toxic relationships in media/ in music personally.
It's really demoralizing. It's not like wholesome family movies disappeared completely but they're so overshadowed by these jaded, depressing broken family stories now. It's almost sinister how prevalent they are.
“If your going to choose art to help reform your understanding, then why not choose good art?”
Absolutely fantastic critique.
It's ironic because Chloe Cherry is an actual adult film star and even SHE had reservations about her first scene being nude.
lol!
i was just about to comment...
"that's not chloe cherry"...
shame what she did to her face.
Euphoria is only popular because of the shock content. Take it away and you're left with a generic stale story.
I think both euphoria and that old movie are deeply fucked up
i enjoyed euphoria at a really hard time in my life. in retrospect, there were definitely themes that are upsetting when looked at through a macro lens, however i do think it was largely young adults speaking about young adult experiences. the fact that the characters themselves are high schoolers is ridiculous but is an issue of the broader culture. euphoria didnt exist in a vacuum, and media is always reflective. the series did a great job at creating sustained suspension of disbelief making it easier to resonate with characters. looking at euphoia only as a form of propogana diminishes space for art that communicates experience rather than coercion. not perfect media but what is.
Y-yeah, what he said.
Yay. I'm glad that sandwich worked out.
Completely agree with the message of your video. Although I grew up in the eighties/nineties, I spent most of my childhood watching old classic movies. The women in those films expected to be treated with gentleness and respect as a matter of course. And men who expressed their masculinity in a positive way were rewarded and appreciated. I’m not saying that everything back in those days was perfect, but I think those movies can still teach us a lot about what to aim for. If you’re interested in another old classic that perfectly exemplifies what I’m talking about I would check out Ivanhoe ( 1952). It’s full of chivalry and romance and positive examples of masculinity/femininity. Also has some surprisingly good action sequences !
If you’re interested in another classic movie that I think really exemplifies what I’m talking about I would check out Ivanhoe (1952). It’s full of romance and chivalry and great examples of masculinity/femininity.
I don't think the old movie is wholesome neither: there's kidnapping and that's not a good foundation for healthy relationships.
Feminism has ruined gender dynamics; maybe beyond repair. Women want men to pursue them. Not abduct them, no, but make a show of how desirable they find the women. Seven Brides exaggerates all aspects of courtship to comical degrees and does so in a wholesome way.
Euphoria exaggerates delinquent high school culture to an exploitative degree. For all the issues you can find with Seven Brides you cannot say that it's encouraging young people to engage in dangerous activities.
And anyone who truly believes that Seven Brides gets its message across in an irresponsible way either doesn't have a sense of humor or wasn't paying attention while watching it.
@@LUMOSHROOM yay! A luscious reply!
Well, imo, feminism was needed, and it's still neccesary in parts where women have no rights.
And while there seems to be a woke, liberal mess, let's not forget that for every tesis, there's an antithesis, and then there's synthesis.
I do not like Euphoria either, but I don't agreed with your choice of movie. And there can be better representations of what you think is missing in this moment, the fun of dating.
@@catrocastre8215 This comment section is full of examples so let's keep them coming. I already cited Overboard (1987) so what movies or shows do you think capture that positive side of dating in a better way?
I absolutely LOVE this video and I love the comparisons you are drawing, but I must say you are wrong about cynical, degenerate art being a modern invention. The work of Tennessee Williams comes to mind. Plays such as “A Streetcar Named Desire” and the like definitely existed, and I believe that movie was popular at the time and even might have won awards. I don’t think it was mostly celebrated and awarded by a niche Hollywood audience, but it still existed. Still, I enjoy the sentiment and values you are promoting in this video and please keep it up!
Fair point. I don't believe degenerate art is a modern invention but I didn't really make that clear in the video. The modern media landscape is, however, sorely lacking in wholesome fiction. And the ratio of endearing romantic stories to disenchanting ones is very skewed.
Euphoria hit high school culture like crack hit low-income neighborhoods in the 80s. Props to you for calling it out.
I wouldn't call 7 bride for 7 brothers "wholesome," though I understand where you're coming from. I think the modern sensibilities against the film that you mentioned are very valid. I think the golden age of wholesome + modern that could be a better reference is the 1900s-2010s where romance (at least in the movies and shows I've seen) struck a balance of being authentic and respectful of what it portrayed (difficulties of a relationship but ALSO how they are properly dealt with). The first examples of this coming to mind are the shows Castle and Leverage.
If i were to pick a movie to recommend romance writers exploring trauma watch I would suggest Good Will Hunting. While its not 100% a romance, the parts that are is basically Euphoria with a therapist, the Age of Consent, and good writing. (ok only in broad strokes but euphoria is so out there its kinda hard to find anything similar enough to compare it to)
Good Will Hunting is S-Tier so I'm with you on that. However I think the 2000s are too saturated with sex comedies to be considered wholesome.
Movies like Overboard from the 80s strike a better balance but I'm probably biased. There are some good family movies from the 2000s as well so I take your point.
It really bugs me that this doesn't have more views.
Go to manga for wholesome escapism
I love Junji Ito's work - that's most of the manga I've ever read.
But manga and anime have the same range of wholesome and degenerate subject matter that every medium has.
@@LUMOSHROOM Yes by range, no by output. There's so much PG sport and romance. Ito's great, glad he's mainstream. 🦈🌬️👃 Gyo so good.
I recommend Kokou No Hito - or The Climber. Nothing to do with romance, it's just great. 🧗♂️
Rue becomes an addict after her father dies. He has flashback scenes all throughout the first season. I doubt you watched it in its entirety if you managed to forget that. 🤔 I’m not a huge fan of the show either, but this ‘commentary’ seems like a grift.
So, you get paid to poo poo small channels that review your client's shows? Why am I not surprised? Shameless.
@@thetruth45678 I’m just a regular person on the internet. Lol. I don’t have any clients. I made this account years ago and put “VEVO” at the end of the name because I was only ever watching music videos. Either way, the grift is obvious.
@@LoneWulf278 Genuine people don't show up 10 minutes within a video being posted with a novella of political BS ready-made and waiting to undermine a tiny channel like this. Paid shills, like you, do. It has nothing to do with the VEVO tag in your name, sugar. Your actions speak loud enough. Get lost.
I did watch all of season one and I remember Rue taking pills from her dying father in flashbacks. I'm not sure how that's relevant though.
@@LUMOSHROOM You said in the video that you didn’t remember *why* she took drugs. That’s *why* she took drugs. That’s what makes the comment relevant.
You’re saying all this as if the movie-makers in the 50’s weren’t heavily restricted by the Hays Code. The era had flaws, they just couldn’t show them.
I’m also guessing you’ve never heard of How To Marry A Millionaire (about gold diggers), Breakfast At Tiffany’s (about a male pr0stitute and a party girl), Imitation of Life (about self-hatred and single motherhood *gasp*), The Seven Year Itch (about marriage and temptation), and basically anything with Bette Davis and Elizabeth Taylor. They always played crazy women in messed up situations. And their movies were highly successful. Those are the roles that made them stars in that era. It seems like you’re cherry-picking because you have other gripes with the modern world and using art to discuss it.
Aspirational or feel-good media is definitely lacking. I’ll give you that. But superhero movies are pretty good at portraying positive pro-social values, both romantic and otherwise. Considering how popular and beloved they are, I doubt there’s sufficient reason for alarmism. There’s always Disney Channel. 😂
"Popular" hahahaha!! Superhero movies are DOA. Disney? Disney is the reason all our iconic franchises are ruined. Go flaunt your woke BS somewhere else.
@@thetruth45678 People are still watching superhero movies. Disney Channel/Nickelodeon shows are clean and aspirational. That’s the point.
Nobody watches an HBO show looking for clean, family-friendly fun. It’s the same platform with The Sopranos and Game of Thrones. Be serious.
And PLEASE find another response besides “woke”. The word means nothing and you know it. Do better.
preach@@thetruth45678
@@LoneWulf278I mean yeah but not nearly as many. And as for Disney they can't keep a show or director around long enough due to the amount of failed movies they've had. After Endgame it's all kind of went downhill, as well as star wars, and just about any Disney franchise, probably why they can't stop remaking old films with new paint jobs, or why they keep cramming every new show with nostalgia at every turn.
And you know I agree on the word woke, it has just about as much meaning as racism at this point.
@@rexnas8150 Disney’s box office success or movie quality is another conversation. My point was that they still have wholesome and family-friendly content on their main channel. HBO is not where you go to see wholesome media. The woke AND anti-woke nonsense is old and meaningless.
Its funny how people act like Euphoria is over dramatized, clearly non of you have lived in a small town where there is nothing to do but party and do drugs 💀
Dude make a drawing and start learning art, learn an instrument or maybe a new language, study, read, go to the cafe with friends, play a sport or learn martial arts, learn about religion, do some charity, write a poem, go play bowlling with friends, go to a concert, get a summer job, go out and make friends. All things you can do in a small town without a cellphone or internet. You can not tell me the only thing you could do was drugs and party till you drop.
That sounds like a poor excuse
I live in a small town and i dont party or do drugs so thats just an excuse
How many teenagers do you know who break into college student's apartments to beat and blackmail them?
Euphoria doesn't just portray people partying hard - Project X is a fun example of that type of story - it selectively focuses on the most scandalous and disturbing aspects of its characters' dysfunctional relationships and portrays them in deliberately shocking ways. And then the tonal whiplash hits when Rue breaks the fourth wall to give a drawn-out lecture on dick pics or play detective. Not just silly but immersion-breaking.
Hi I come from a background like that. Yes it does happen and I've been a part of it but that definitly isn't a significant majority of students nor is it something that should be borderline glorified and promoted in A SHOW WITH A TEEN DEMOGRAPHIC. I have met middle schoolers who watched Euphoria and let me tell you that fucked them up severely.
Bro.. where did you get the idea that euphoria was a “role model” piece? You may have missed the entire premise and point of the show.
I don't think it's a "role model" piece but that won't stop undiscerning people from taking the wrong messages from it.
Maybe you've never met people who proudly proclaim to be like Bojack Horseman or Rick Sanchez but I have.
Wonderful video! Thank you for making good quality content. 🤍🙌🏻