Thank you so much for having me on to discuss my mission and my story of leaving the church! :) This was a great conversation and I have to say, I love all the interviews on your channel. I've been a fan for a long time so it's really cool to be on your channel 🫶🫶🫶
Thanks for coming on and sharing! And for deciding to be a voice for those needing answers to Mormon questions! Doin the lord’s work and doing it well! 😉🙏 #apostatesunite
I love having the missionaries come. We have ALWAYS welcomed them to make themselves at home (laundry, food, TV, unfiltered internet, conversation, games, phone calls, alone time, etc.) with the understanding from the first sentence that neither my children nor I will pray with them or discuss their "religion." Since Alyssa started her channel, I've had several (now former) missionaries leave the church and stay with us to get their feet on the ground. I feel horrible for missionaries paying to waste their lives in awful conditions all for a lie. Keep up your work and we'll try to do our small part too! The fact that 40% of missionaries are leaving the "church" within 6 months of return is incredibly encouraging to me.
40% seems rlly high, I would hope so but the majority of Mormon men go on missions, are rlly almost half of them leaving the church at 20? idk maybe I’m wrong but I doubt it
@@TariqNavabiGaming That is the most recent statistic cited based on a host of factors. I obviously have no way of dis/proving it, but I've definitely witnessed. an exodus like at no other time.
I didn't know those poor missionaries actually have quotas. Usually I just quiz those people on LDS history (especially if they happen to be non-white, I make sure they know about the racism in the church's past) - but now a part of me wonders if I should just offer to fake converting to get their numbers up if they give me $30 or something lol
From an outsiders perspective it apprars that missions are not to find converts but it is to solidify the child going into adulthood to become the best version of a strict Mormon to continue the lineages participation..the converts are just a bonus...
you are correct. I was a missionary. This didn't work in my case. I left my mission half way through, which is really saying something when you take into consideration all Alyssa tells you here about what the culture within a mission is like
OMG.... not only wasting two years on my mission, I wasted a year in a machine shop making money to go on a mission. This level of sacrifice is why informed consent is a must.
l find it very ironic that if missionaries break even the tiniest rule, they will not be worthy to bring people to God, but when discussing all the failings of Joseph Smith, apologists say, "Yeah, but he was just a man. God had to use an imperfect man to bring the gospel to the Earth". You can't have it both ways.😒
i'm so glad I was raised in secular family. I could experiment with my spirituality, lifestyle and making my own life decisions. For some (not very common) reasons I started attending Russian Orthodox church mass and after few years I left it. And I can not imagine how difficult it would be for someone who was raised in a very religious family (or even in a preacher's family)
I felt so bad for these two girls a couple yrs back that were on their mission in Rochester NY who happened upon my family as we were heading into a Bad Religion concert. I use mobility aids & was parked just outside the venue bc handicap parking, so I don’t think they were expecting us to be like “sorry, but we’re here to see Bad Religion. Good luck though. And stay safe.” They then kinda got caught up in the crowd of punks & freaks before the doors opened. I will say everyone was very respectful, but they just ended up out of their element and very bright red as they navigated through the crazy.
Thank you so much, Alyssa, for expressing how to treat Mormon Missionaries. We're all human and in need of kindness and love. I am not Mormon, but believe everybody counts, or nobody counts. I choose to treat all kinds of people well, but have enough discernment to keep myself safe.
Two of the most thoughtful, intelligent, and significant voices in this important space?? I'm IN! Thank you both for your courage and your advocacy. If my children grow to become kind and compassionate young adults like you two women, I'll be so grateful. ❤❤❤
The talking about serving a mission in Italy reminded me that a few weeks ago I went on a daytrip to Como from Milan to see an exhibition, and on the train there was a group of Mormon missionaries. And I was unobtrusively looking at them and pondering about their mission, and also drinking from my water bottle, and the train hit a bump, I hit the rim of the bottle on a tooth, and splashed water all over my shirt. And I just did the Italian thing letting out an explosive and quite explicit curse to god and all the saints in hell. To which the poor missionaries reacted by becoming quite brightly red.
Irene’s Entropy is doing an Instagram series are her mission experience in Honduras, which was horrifying. She’s another person I love following & would make a fantastic interview
100% had to have caffeine in college. Mostly tea and soda. Not so much coffee. The smell of coffee made me sick then. After having kids, I can't live without coffee.
I did it without coffee.... because I never developed a taste for it. But Red Bull was my best friend I think it's different now, but I know for a LONG time BYU was the only place you could be caffeine free Mt Dew. I can only assume they make it on pure sugar buzz alone
I left mine early because I managed to come to that realization part way through. I just feel bad for her that she didn't realize it until much later. I'm sure nowadays I'm that example other people talk about, though, as that missionary who fell to temptation and had to be sent home from their mission, but honestly... I don't care
My parents invited a pair of missionaries to our house several times-even offering them food and to help decorate our Christmas tree. My parents say they kept coming back because I was pretty and a couple years younger than them, but I think they thought the continued inviting back was going to lead to baptism. I don’t remember them returning after showing us a video about Mormonism, but my parents say the mission president didn’t allow them to return because my parents were very ardently opposed to baptism (I don’t feel like that deters them though since I’ve outright told missionaries I’m Jewish now and they seem to think it’s a bigger challenge! And yes, Jewish and Christmas-it’s complicated!).
The only "Christian" part of my Christmas tree is a few ornaments that my brother and I made in Sunday school, and those are there for the same reason as the crayon scribbled "family portrait" on the kitchen wall
Alyssa is a danger to the LDS church. Her eloquence is a threat. She has a gift of putting into words what many Mormons are experiencing and have no words for. But once you can identify what's bothering you, these things are losing their power over you. Alyssa, you are saving lives.
I have so much respect for both of you and want to thank you for what you do. I am a trauma therapist and tell my clients when they are exploring meaning around what they have been through, since you can't change what has happened, now you have choices regarding what you will do moving forward. Both of you have made remarkable choices to tell your stories and use your platforms to provide a space for others to do the same. You're making your little corner of the world better and brighter which is how the world begins to get better and brighter. This is how real change happens. Truly beautiful!!!
I genuinely believe that the LDS Church, the organisation, should really start caring more for their missionaries. The measly monthly allowances don't even cover up for the missionaries' daily expenses and the wild pressure they face to "baptise converts" no matter what, even if, as Alyssa has mentioned, that means "not helping a couple get married at the Temple financially" or "help the poor get their next meal" is not only unhealthy, but also grossly dehumanising. And I haven't even touched upon the strict rules they are to comply with and the dangers they face during their mission in foreign countries... Thank you so much for having this talk!❤🤗
Cults to Consciousness Yeah I tried to get into BYU for a Masters Degree Program and my GPA was good and I even did community service alot. I was rejected. I was crushed as what I was told what you needed to get into BYU, I felt I met as a Mormon. It was my dream school for graduate school as I was told they have the best program for your chosen field. I also felt like I had failed as a Mormon too in not getting into BYU. Now as an EXMO and listening to Alyssa years later about her experience, I feel like I basically dodge a bullet.
Question for you... were you a Mormon outside of Utah? I used to be Mormon but raised in Utah and there was never this culture there of "you have to go to BYU" and none of my enormous family (I have over 200 first cousins) went there. But I've heard the idea that good Mormons go to BYU from people like Alyssa and John Delynn so I have to wonder if this is something that we didnt' experience in Utah but was part of a broader culture outside of the state
@@anthonydelfino6171I’m from Utah. My Mormon family in Utah never went to BYU, nor was in a huge deal. However, my Mormon family in Idaho was the exact opposite and was more like what is described in this video
I am from Latvia. When I was a student, one summer (2000 or 2001), my friend and I met Mormon Missionaries who came from US. That few years actually Latvia was full of them. We had Mormon friends in or home town and in a capital city, where we were going to university. They were so nice, all young men, presentably dressed, always smiling, always happy. Of course us two young women were happy to meet them every other day in a park 😆 then they told us their leaders organised a FREE English classes for locals, and of course we attended, who says NO to a free English lessons. First of all, there were no women amongst them only very good looking young men and few older leaders, so most of the local students were women 😅 first few lessons we didn't really understand anything, because they only were speaking english. Then we kind of realised many of words sounded a bit culty, because they made us repeat verses that sounded a lot like preyers 😅 our mormon friends explained us that they are actually bringing a true religion in our country... i left after 3 lessons. We still were friends with those young Missionaries. They were constantly visiting my friends home, her mum became their mum for the time they were in our home town. Luckily they understood that Mormonism is not a religion for Latvians, too alien. So they were just enjoying the warmth of my frien's mum home. The one thing they never accepted is food she cooked for them, they weren't allowed. They could bring food and coock themselves in her house, but never ever they eat her food. And it was a big mistake, she is a cook and makes amazing meals! I wonder if all of them are still mormons, they should be on their 40's now 😄
Thanks for sharing. Are Latvians catholics or orthodox Christians? I know you still have some orthodox churches in your country, but are you originally orthodox?
Random, but when I was in Gymnasiet (Swedish equivalence of high school, roughly) in about 2003 or 04 our teacher presented two young men dressed in white short sleeve shirts, short hair, seemed tired. I think it was social studies. They where from the U.S. and made it clear that they would let every student ask a question about life in the U.S., "but we will not answer any questions about politics" (I had prepared a question about the war in Iraq in my head). Can't remember what they talked about all these years later, but realize now that they where probably mormons on a mission?
Every time I’ve seen young men dressed like that, they’re LDS missionaries lol, so I would guess so. I can even spot the girls without the name tags, they do modesty differently than the evangelicals. More flounces, fewer denim maxis. I’m always surprised by how many missionaries we get where I live, which is 10-15% LDS but we have a temple. I mostly see them calling bingo at the hospital, it looks so boring but the more I learn, I imagine it’s dull but at least it’s safe and they’ve got a specific, non-religious job to do.
I saw them few months ago in my town! it's really rare to see mormon here(Seoul), and my town is small and mostly old people live here so I thought it was interesting😂 but I don't think they can success cuz younger people who can speak English well enough to have some conversation, won't fall for them. and old people who might have interest with Mormonism can't speak English😂
The whole reacilmating back into society as Alyssa basically puts it in returning from the mission honestly sounds like what alot of soliders have issues with upon returning from service once out.
Two groups of people believing that they’re fighting for the greater good only to come back from the “fight” to realize the only thing they’re bodies had been sent to do was indoctrinate and destroy peoples lives
I think it depends a lot on the missionary, but for real. for me when I left my mission was actively excited to see everything I missed. I can't say that anything in my life has filled me with that same wonder and exploration as everything being new and exciting since I was a child, and I was so into hearing all the music and seeing all the movies and all the rest probably also worth noting that I left for the mission in Oct 2000 and came home early in April 2002, so the world I left and the world I came home to were literally very different places
I heard other interviews say this church has $$ Billions. They could take care of homelessness & hunger every where in the U.S. that they have a church. That sounds like that would be a really good mission project, good use of their money & time & good PR too.
A crossover that we love to see! Thanks for sharing your voice/story with us! Love you both and your mission to talk about these things and break the cycle! ❤
The discourse around the illusion of choice and the question on spiritually manipulating people to get them baptised reasonated a lot with one of my experiences with mormonism. For context, I was baptised catholic due to social pressure on my parents, but neither our household nor my upbringing were ever religious. I rememeber that even as a kid, once I started going to catechism "socially" around 6, I resented being thrust into that whole shebang without having a say in it, or before I could even know what it was all about. Cue my mormon friend, whose parents once invited my mother and me to their church (and yes, they _obviously_ gifted us a copy of the Book of Mormon, too), and the one thing I remember from that experience was being in awe when someone told me that mormon kids get baptised later in life. And I _distinctly_ remember thinking that it was the coolest thing ever because it was presented to me as a _choice_ on the kids' behalf. So basically, one of the adults in that church clocked on one of my grievances with my then-current religion and spun a narrative in which mormonism would give me the thing I felt catholicism had failed me with. Ultimately it went nowhere, but damn, do they know how to try and sell it. On the subject of being indoctrinated into compliance even when something happens that makes one feel uncomfortable or bad, that's honestly horrible. I had issues with my local priest over my first communion because I had moved towns and wanted to do it with my former peers, and when he started being difficult over paperwork, I flat out told my mother, "That's it, I'm doing the communion but I'm not sticking around for confirmation", and she was fully supportive. And later on, when I switched to the local ortodox church and served as an altar boy, when the priest scolded me for wearing shorts in summer (which you couldn't even notice under the tunic), I was like "Yeah, f*ck it, I'm out of here". I can't even begin to imagine how horrible it must be not to have this kind of agency because of indoctrination or fear of social consequences.
I’ve never had this thought before but when you think about a missionary having to find ppl to talk to everywhere they are, all the time & how prevalent MLMs are w/ Mormons/Utah one could see how easily you could go from one to the next because to most people that would be so awkward but in a way, it’s the same principle except ones for the Prophets & ones for products. You’re also paying THEM to do their marketing for free for both. I hope that makes sense. Ugh hearing these missionary stories is heartbreaking. I can’t imagine doing that, not being able to talk to my loved ones & for THAT long!!
I was thinking the same thing! So many similarities! - paying the church/company to work for them - being encouraged to be working anytime anywhere - shame and guilt when you don't meet the goals - being made to see any person you meet as a potential convert/recruit - the idea that the church/company can do no wrong - telling people that if they aren't seeing success it must be their fault for not being faithful/commited, hardworking enough, even when it's things completely out of their control - being told you're "helping people" when it's really just for the benefit of the church/company I'm sure there are more I'm not thinking of too!
I've been waiting for this! Both of you do such amazing work, educating folks about their options and outsiders about things to look out for and how to help. Thank you so much for bringing more humanity into the world.
I have to add I am touched by your ability to recognize the fact that Mormon missions have real consequences for others in addition to the missionaries. So young, yet so wise!
Fascinating interview. Thank you both. I lived once opposite two girls doing their Mormon mission. Living so close we often passed on the road. I felt very sorry for these young women who always looked unhappy and put upon. But talking to them was very hard for me as their conversation was totally directed. Now I understand that they were brain-washed and coerced to stay within the bounds all the time. I'm grateful that my neighbour was willing to sit down with them, listen and talk with them on their level.
Long time viewer here. I got a new job where I'm working with an ex young earth creationists lady. And as we were talking I asked who did your reprogramming, and she said you did and it blew my mind. Great work here on your platform! Seeing your effect in the real world
I live in Alberta Canada and we get a lot of Mormon missionaries from Utah. There were two girls in my town standing with a little stand full of books, I crossed the road to walk past them because I actually wanted to talk to them and ask them questions. Like if how they separated deciphering a book with a rock and a hat, from divination. But they literally backed away and avoided me, wouldn't even make eye contact with me. Hahaha I'm guessing it must be my evil tattoos! Hahaha poor girls
Hi from North Battleford Sask. We always have two LDS missionaries arroud. The church rents a tiny town home by my friends. I feel so bad for them trying to convert people here. Fyi I am a Christian in a church that does give money and food to the needy of our little city.
My brother is law is 1 of 6 kids(2g 4b) and was raised mormon. All the boys left the church. All the kid where told that their parents would pay for school if they when to any of the byu schools. 2 boys joined the military, 1 trade school and the youngest stayed long enough to graduate from byu Rexburg. He almost didn't get his diploma because him and his fiance signed on an apartment together and only he had moved in before they got married but on paper it looked like they lived together before that! Not sure what they had to do to prove they didn't live together but thankfully get got it!
I like your way of thinking about the waste of the Mormon mission. I’m from Guatemala and it irked me so much when ex Mormons say they are thankful for it. They got to learn a new language or something. But at least here, the people they are converting are so poor, un educated and vulnerable. If they don’t see how problematic it is because they learnt a new language then they still have some work to do on themselves.
and it's been that way for a long time... I'm a bit older than Alyssa and was sent to Houston for mine. For a few months I was assigned to a wealthy part of the city. At that time, they weren't doing the thing Alyssa talked about where we might have lived with members, and the church being as stingy as they are, had us live in a poorer part of the city. On top of that we also weren't given a car to get to our assigned area, and so we would have to bicycle into that part of town, on the highway, for over an hour each way. And because it was so important that we spend all the time possible prosletyzing, that meant my companion and I had to wake up an hour earlier than everyone else each day in order to bike it to our area, during rush hour traffic, on time, and had to bicycle back home late at night after sundown again along that busy highway. all because putting our lives at risk was worth the money they saved by both not giving us access to a car or an apartment in the area we were supposed to be working
I grew up Assemblies of God and I identified with SO MANY things she's talked about. I actually use to watch documentaries about different cults and I'd be embarrassed, confused and ashamed that my upbringing in the assemblies of God was so similar to the cults I was watching in that documentary. Just crazy!
My best friend (during middle & high school +) & her family were members of a local Assembly Of God Church. I went to her church & “youth group” several times. I was raised Presbyterian, and I will never forget a young woman from Assembly Of God sitting me down and telling me that one is only “saved” if they speak in tongues. I was in disbelief and asked a lot of questions (for which she seemed to have answers). However, I must have talked to my parents or someone else I trusted about this matter & they reassured me that their belief was just that, and I shouldn’t let it affect me. I didn’t let it bother me much, but I will never forget how “cultish” that all seemed in hindsight.
I think my Baptist college took notes on how BYU students got around the rules when making their rulebook... Ours tried to close as many loopholes as possible! 90% of students had to live on campus, with an enforced curfew. No visiting the dorm of the opposite sex. No sitting in parked cars. No physical affection of any kind. The list goes on and on!
As a Christian who is debating his faith, thank you for an honest, open and heart-warming discussion on the the absolute absurdity of the Mormon Church
Amazing video as always! I loved listening to your journey and learning more about mormon beliefs and the illusion of choice. I wish that in terms of places where to go during a mission, the young person PAYING to go would be able to decide which country they want to be in + that it would be made clear thay they can quit and come back home anytime (without having to explain or justify themselves).
I'm from Peru, a few months before covid started I was in a catholic procession near my home, two mormon girls from de US passed by and ask me and my family what was going on and why their was so many people wearing purple, following an image (The lord of Miracles). They were my age and they seemed really fun an courious. A few days later they knock on my door I knew some things about what they were doing and about their religion like their history and what they believe in because of youtube and google, i also had one friend in school that was a mormon. So I decided to talk to them, in fact they were really kind and fun people. We schedule another meeting in a park, obviusly they try to change my faith, I already knew that is what they came to my country to do so it didn't bother me at all, and at the end we kind of talk about some random teenage girl stuff. I wish we could have been friends but they weren't allowed. When covid hit i wondered what happened to them and hope they returned home safely. Hopefuly we will meet again
1:33 I was told the same working with evangelical missionaries. This was always one of those grains of sand grinding in my mind leading eventually to my deconversion.
For me, policing adults' clothing and micromanaging their behavior sounds extremely infantilizing. You can follow all the rules, if you believe those help, but enforcing them is another thing. It just leads to loopholes and not getting caught, because now it's more important to look righteous, than to be one. It sounds utterly counterproductive, even in a religious sense.
It's so funny to me to hear the BYU stories. A high school classmate (non-Momon from Colorado) went there on a swimming scholarship, and promptly got kicked out. 1972
That was amazing! Thank you so much Shelise for introducing me to Alyssa!!! Watching you and her on her channel now lol and it’s so informative and I’m learning NEW things about you lol! As always I love you bunches ❤
I knew a returned missionary writing a letter to all those he baptized, explaining why he didn't belief anymore and apologized to them for being of assistance to converting them to becoming a member. Something happened that shook his foundation with Christianity.
I was raised in the Mormon faith. My parents went to church with me nearly every Sunday until I was close to the age of 5. After this age they rarely took me to church. When I was 14 my parents made me go to seminary. I also started reading the scriptures daily. When I was 15 I went to seminary and to church every Sunday. Church really benefited me and helped me be a better more loving person. I met my husband at institute, close to the age of 24 and we were married in the temple when I turned 25. Those people Alyssa baptized might have benefited from the church even though she can't see that now. Close to the age of 30 I read Meditation for Dummies by Stephan Bodian and picked up a mantra meditation practice that benefited me 10x more than the Mormon church ever did. Close to the age of 40 I quit going to church as it didn't teach true meditation and taught that feelings are evil and I just couldn't deal with the lying in the church anymore. I didn't learn about the CES letter until a few months ago when I was 53. I just figured the sealed part of the Book of Mormon would teach meditation and that feelings were not evil. Now it sounds like one big hoax, but even if it was a hoax, somehow it ended up benefiting me from the ages of 14 to 30. I am glad to know it was a hoax after I discovered mantra meditation. I don't know what I would have done had I discovered the Book of Mormon was a hoax before having mantra meditation to help me with my daily life.
I have been down the rabbit hole since Katie Holmes left Tom Cruise. From Tony Ortega to Leah Remini, to John Dehlin, to Lauren Matthias et al. to True Crime. Through the Daybell trial to my obsession with the Karen Read case, my husband has usually humored me at least for a few moments, but there is almost nothing he has been interested enough to actually watch or listen to with me. Then one day I heard a familiar voice emanating from his ipad. Lo and behold, it was Alyssa! I asked him what he was watching, and he said, “I’ve been watching this ex-Mormon, Alys…” “I KNOW who it is! I said. I just wondered why you were watching her.” He explained that you are funny and smart and your husband left with you and he just likes your videos! (And, fascinated, that “She really DOES look Mormon”)! So, high praise from myself and my husband, who is usually guffawing at old SNL skits or zoning out to some mechanic with a power sander! Great stuff! Btw I loved your latest on the Mormon Wives! Astute!
I grew up devout Calvinist(now agnostic) in South Africa. My only exposure to the LDS church was a few of the videos they show kids once in a cults & sects presentation, on a church camp, to basically show us "Look how ridiculous these people are". I have NO idea why UA-cam recommended Shelise and Alyssa at different times to me in the past year. But, I immediately started following both. They're the only ex Mormons I know, so I'm sooooo excited to see this collab!
Seeing you two together made me so happy. You both have been so helpful for my own deconstruction of Mormon trauma. Love you both and please keep sharing your stories ❤
A few years ago I met a young Mormon boy from the US who went to my German city for his mission and I often wonder how he's doing and if he's still in the church. When he tried to talk to me about the Mormon church I immediately said I'm an atheist and he seemed relieved to not having to convince me anymore so we proceeded to just chat normally while I waited for my bus. I felt so sorry for him bc he said he's been awake since around 6 am and still had to work until 7 or 8 pm (it was raining so much oof). He said he kinda misses home but it's also exciting to be here. Genuinely hope he's happy no matter where he is rn
In the early 80’s we had 2 young men missionaries who came to our home to witness. We’re in the south and Baptist and challenged their thinking and what they’d been taught. We invited them back every Sunday afternoon for lunch and they came. For a couple of months. They were young and naive.
Personally I am amazed when ex-mormons say they DON'T regret their mission because they learned a language or learned more about the world. They never seem to mention how they used, misled and objectified everyone they met. I really appreciate that Alyssa sees this.
We are so socially conditioned to accepting randomness and pain, that it very ever rarely enters it to ask whether this pain was necessary to the process or not. And that principle doesn't just apply to religion, but all abusive and authoritarian perspectives, whether that's politics, business, science or education. It's like someone saddled with shit tons of student loans saying they actually enjoyed college. Yes it's true, but that makes the predatory loans all that much more insidious and horrifying.
i’m an atheist teenager but alyssa’s content and other content about cults in general absolutely fascinates me. my dad is also atheist but has absolutely no care in hearing anything of religion, i don’t really understand that. thanks for the video guys 👍
It's so sad Missionaries could actually do good with the vast wealth of the church, but the church only wants more money and converts. If it was simply a church funded trip to help out a community or help those who are less fortunate while only preaching to those who are interested, helping without expectations..... kinda like Jesus - the church might actually be a force for good in the world. Well, once the bigotry and systemic misogyny changes. Nothing you can do to correct the false doctrine, but at least do good in the world, support your members and quit hoarding wealth. It's criminal coerce young adults to pay to sacrifice so much and still treat them so poorly.
You two are so strong and powerful together! I just learned from you that I’m a Nevermo 😉, and both your channels are so educational to me. I think your collaboration is also strong and the two of you are a pleasure to listen to. Hopefully you will continue as duo hosts in the future! Keep up the good work, lovely ladies! Greetings from the Netherlands 🌷 🌷 🌷
Thanks for sharing this ya'll! It is very relatable, i went on a mission myself to the Eugene Oregon mission 2014-2016. Keep it up! I have been out for years now, i am learning a lot from each episode ya'll make. Very important work to make and support.
I'm at the point in the video where Alyssa discusses coming home from her mission and feeling no sense of purpose because all of the rules and the way she had to live during her mission have been ripped out from under her. That also happens to military veterans who return to civilian life and feel void of a sense of purpose for their lives. EDIT: After posting my comment, I also realized that ex-convicts who have served their full sentence or have been paroled after many years of incarceration also feel this sense of not knowing how to make it through the day.
When she was talking about waking up past 6:30, it reminded me of a time my mission president told me that because I had issues waking up on time, there were people who would not be saved because of me.
There’s a prominent LDS family locally who has become involved with the nonprofit I work for. It feels like they are slowly deconstructing, but in a place that isn’t obvious. It’s been incredible to see their daughter, now a young adult, find her own voice and seems to be postponing marriage with her beloved boyfriend simply so they can grow as people. Tbh, we never would have realized, but I knew her grandpa & know the upbringing. I’m pretty sure her parents intentionally brought her to us to benefit from feminism & liberal politics without having to go directly against the church. We get a lot of devout kids whose parents seem to know they’ll have their horizons broadened gently but firmly. Esp if I think a 9th grader is a college freshman, thank god I was too vague lol!
thank you so much for sharing your experience and feelings when you went through the temple, and how you felt around garments. i had a very similar experience, and my mormon mission is what pulled me forward as well.
Great interview! It's such a joy to listen to you both, as you are so well articulated! Very interesting to learn about all the rules, and how young people react to them. It makes me think that it would also be very interesting to see an interview with somebody who has left one of the strictest Catholic orders, like the discalced Carmelites (the cloistered nuns in particular) or the Carthusians (monks who live like semi hermits) and to compare those experiences, If anyone is interested in that topic, I think "Through the Narrow Gate" by Karen Armstrong is a great book when it comes to describing cult like experiences from a Catholic monastery (they are not all as bad, though - and things have changed a lot since she was a 16 year old postulant/aspiring nun). Also the sequel "The spiral staircase" about trying to adjust to the world again after she left.
Thank you so much for having me on to discuss my mission and my story of leaving the church! :) This was a great conversation and I have to say, I love all the interviews on your channel. I've been a fan for a long time so it's really cool to be on your channel 🫶🫶🫶
Thanks for coming on and sharing! And for deciding to be a voice for those needing answers to Mormon questions! Doin the lord’s work and doing it well! 😉🙏 #apostatesunite
Thank you for sharing your story ❤
HIIII ALYSSA
❤ You are on your true mission now. Thanks to both you ladies for all the information you have shared ❤
Thankyou ❤❤❤
I love having the missionaries come. We have ALWAYS welcomed them to make themselves at home (laundry, food, TV, unfiltered internet, conversation, games, phone calls, alone time, etc.) with the understanding from the first sentence that neither my children nor I will pray with them or discuss their "religion." Since Alyssa started her channel, I've had several (now former) missionaries leave the church and stay with us to get their feet on the ground. I feel horrible for missionaries paying to waste their lives in awful conditions all for a lie. Keep up your work and we'll try to do our small part too! The fact that 40% of missionaries are leaving the "church" within 6 months of return is incredibly encouraging to me.
I just hand them food and bottled water, this is a great idea, 'free time' for them to use the phone/internet/chill/watch TV, what a great idea
40% seems rlly high, I would hope so but the majority of Mormon men go on missions, are rlly almost half of them leaving the church at 20? idk maybe I’m wrong but I doubt it
@@TariqNavabiGaming That is the most recent statistic cited based on a host of factors. I obviously have no way of dis/proving it, but I've definitely witnessed. an exodus like at no other time.
I didn't know those poor missionaries actually have quotas. Usually I just quiz those people on LDS history (especially if they happen to be non-white, I make sure they know about the racism in the church's past) - but now a part of me wonders if I should just offer to fake converting to get their numbers up if they give me $30 or something lol
How you they be so brainwashed, the devil did well with this sect...
From an outsiders perspective it apprars that missions are not to find converts but it is to solidify the child going into adulthood to become the best version of a strict Mormon to continue the lineages participation..the converts are just a bonus...
exactly.
"If you get one convert on your mission, let it be yourself." So yes
you are correct.
I was a missionary. This didn't work in my case. I left my mission half way through, which is really saying something when you take into consideration all Alyssa tells you here about what the culture within a mission is like
I agree with your assessment; pounds in the trauma-based mind control that they've endured from childhood.
Id say its both.
OMG.... not only wasting two years on my mission, I wasted a year in a machine shop making money to go on a mission. This level of sacrifice is why informed consent is a must.
l find it very ironic that if missionaries break even the tiniest rule, they will not be worthy to bring people to God, but when discussing all the failings of Joseph Smith, apologists say, "Yeah, but he was just a man. God had to use an imperfect man to bring the gospel to the Earth". You can't have it both ways.😒
That's a very interesting perspective!!! Never thought of it that way...
Never Mormon here. Every time I hear mission stories, I’m always glad I tried to be kind to the ones in my neighborhood.
Me too
If coffee is a sin, I’m driving to hell with no seatbelt on.
😂😂
😂😂😂
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Me too 😂😂😂
Then I am the driver. Because I am an apostate that is a supervisor of a major coffee company. Lol
Yay 2 of my favorite deconstructed UA-camrs together.
IKR??!!!!!❤
Sameee!!
Omg the collab I was waiting for!
Liked. Shared. Commented. Rescued the algorithm from a mission.
😂😂
Amazing!
i'm so glad I was raised in secular family. I could experiment with my spirituality, lifestyle and making my own life decisions. For some (not very common) reasons I started attending Russian Orthodox church mass and after few years I left it. And I can not imagine how difficult it would be for someone who was raised in a very religious family (or even in a preacher's family)
I am a catholic! :) my grandpa was Russian spoke it but that’s awesome God be with you
I felt so bad for these two girls a couple yrs back that were on their mission in Rochester NY who happened upon my family as we were heading into a Bad Religion concert. I use mobility aids & was parked just outside the venue bc handicap parking, so I don’t think they were expecting us to be like “sorry, but we’re here to see Bad Religion. Good luck though. And stay safe.” They then kinda got caught up in the crowd of punks & freaks before the doors opened. I will say everyone was very respectful, but they just ended up out of their element and very bright red as they navigated through the crazy.
That’s such a great scene to imagine!
Thank you so much, Alyssa, for expressing how to treat Mormon Missionaries. We're all human and in need of kindness and love. I am not Mormon, but believe everybody counts, or nobody counts. I choose to treat all kinds of people well, but have enough discernment to keep myself safe.
Two of the most thoughtful, intelligent, and significant voices in this important space?? I'm IN! Thank you both for your courage and your advocacy. If my children grow to become kind and compassionate young adults like you two women, I'll be so grateful. ❤❤❤
The talking about serving a mission in Italy reminded me that a few weeks ago I went on a daytrip to Como from Milan to see an exhibition, and on the train there was a group of Mormon missionaries. And I was unobtrusively looking at them and pondering about their mission, and also drinking from my water bottle, and the train hit a bump, I hit the rim of the bottle on a tooth, and splashed water all over my shirt. And I just did the Italian thing letting out an explosive and quite explicit curse to god and all the saints in hell. To which the poor missionaries reacted by becoming quite brightly red.
So sorry this happened and also this is 🤣😂😂😂
@@bodytrainer1crane730 well, I am not sorry. I was just pretty standard Italian.
I bestemmioni, adoro ahahah. I mormoni li adoro sono così fuori dal mondo e quando li vedo qui a Milano per me sono delle creature mistiche
Irene’s Entropy is doing an Instagram series are her mission experience in Honduras, which was horrifying. She’s another person I love following & would make a fantastic interview
Shelise interviewed her a while ago
I can't even imagine surviving university without coffee. I was 90% cappuccino all 5 years I was in Uni.
I can’t imagine it during college either, let alone after college when one is in “the real world” 24/7! Coffee & caffeine saves lives! 😂💜
100% had to have caffeine in college. Mostly tea and soda. Not so much coffee. The smell of coffee made me sick then. After having kids, I can't live without coffee.
I did it without coffee.... because I never developed a taste for it. But Red Bull was my best friend
I think it's different now, but I know for a LONG time BYU was the only place you could be caffeine free Mt Dew. I can only assume they make it on pure sugar buzz alone
Thank you for saying that your LDS mission was a complete waste of time! Thank you!
I left mine early because I managed to come to that realization part way through. I just feel bad for her that she didn't realize it until much later.
I'm sure nowadays I'm that example other people talk about, though, as that missionary who fell to temptation and had to be sent home from their mission, but honestly... I don't care
My parents invited a pair of missionaries to our house several times-even offering them food and to help decorate our Christmas tree. My parents say they kept coming back because I was pretty and a couple years younger than them, but I think they thought the continued inviting back was going to lead to baptism. I don’t remember them returning after showing us a video about Mormonism, but my parents say the mission president didn’t allow them to return because my parents were very ardently opposed to baptism (I don’t feel like that deters them though since I’ve outright told missionaries I’m Jewish now and they seem to think it’s a bigger challenge! And yes, Jewish and Christmas-it’s complicated!).
I have Muslim friends who put up a Christmas tree because it looks beautiful and festive during the cold & dark months we spend inside 😂
Christmas and Christmas trees are a pagan tradition anyway so I wouldn’t worry 😂
The only "Christian" part of my Christmas tree is a few ornaments that my brother and I made in Sunday school, and those are there for the same reason as the crayon scribbled "family portrait" on the kitchen wall
@@evelien135I am that Muslims friend 😭 my family lives putting up lights even though we didn’t celebrate cause it looked pretty with the snow hehehe
Alyssa is a danger to the LDS church.
Her eloquence is a threat.
She has a gift of putting into words what many Mormons are experiencing and have no words for.
But once you can identify what's bothering you, these things are losing their power over you.
Alyssa, you are saving lives.
I have so much respect for both of you and want to thank you for what you do. I am a trauma therapist and tell my clients when they are exploring meaning around what they have been through, since you can't change what has happened, now you have choices regarding what you will do moving forward. Both of you have made remarkable choices to tell your stories and use your platforms to provide a space for others to do the same. You're making your little corner of the world better and brighter which is how the world begins to get better and brighter. This is how real change happens. Truly beautiful!!!
I genuinely believe that the LDS Church, the organisation, should really start caring more for their missionaries. The measly monthly allowances don't even cover up for the missionaries' daily expenses and the wild pressure they face to "baptise converts" no matter what, even if, as Alyssa has mentioned, that means "not helping a couple get married at the Temple financially" or "help the poor get their next meal" is not only unhealthy, but also grossly dehumanising. And I haven't even touched upon the strict rules they are to comply with and the dangers they face during their mission in foreign countries... Thank you so much for having this talk!❤🤗
Getting measly allowances of their OWN money… it’s insane
I don't know what you are talking about. I managed my allowance well on my mission.
@@codeman966 no matter how well you manage it, it jutsu isn't feasible for everyone.
@@chlyri only because they spend all the there allowance on unimportant things.
@@codeman966 remember cost of living is highly regional
Cults to Consciousness Yeah I tried to get into BYU for a Masters Degree Program and my GPA was good and I even did community service alot.
I was rejected. I was crushed as what I was told what you needed to get into BYU, I felt I met as a Mormon. It was my dream school for graduate school as I was told they have the best program for your chosen field.
I also felt like I had failed as a Mormon too in not getting into BYU. Now as an EXMO and listening to Alyssa years later about her experience, I feel like I basically dodge a bullet.
Question for you... were you a Mormon outside of Utah?
I used to be Mormon but raised in Utah and there was never this culture there of "you have to go to BYU" and none of my enormous family (I have over 200 first cousins) went there. But I've heard the idea that good Mormons go to BYU from people like Alyssa and John Delynn so I have to wonder if this is something that we didnt' experience in Utah but was part of a broader culture outside of the state
@@anthonydelfino6171I’m from Utah. My Mormon family in Utah never went to BYU, nor was in a huge deal. However, my Mormon family in Idaho was the exact opposite and was more like what is described in this video
@@anthonydelfino6171 a good friend of mine expressed this thought and attended BYU in the end, and has now left the church. We are from Kansas
I am from Latvia. When I was a student, one summer (2000 or 2001), my friend and I met Mormon Missionaries who came from US. That few years actually Latvia was full of them. We had Mormon friends in or home town and in a capital city, where we were going to university. They were so nice, all young men, presentably dressed, always smiling, always happy. Of course us two young women were happy to meet them every other day in a park 😆 then they told us their leaders organised a FREE English classes for locals, and of course we attended, who says NO to a free English lessons. First of all, there were no women amongst them only very good looking young men and few older leaders, so most of the local students were women 😅 first few lessons we didn't really understand anything, because they only were speaking english. Then we kind of realised many of words sounded a bit culty, because they made us repeat verses that sounded a lot like preyers 😅 our mormon friends explained us that they are actually bringing a true religion in our country... i left after 3 lessons. We still were friends with those young Missionaries. They were constantly visiting my friends home, her mum became their mum for the time they were in our home town. Luckily they understood that Mormonism is not a religion for Latvians, too alien. So they were just enjoying the warmth of my frien's mum home. The one thing they never accepted is food she cooked for them, they weren't allowed. They could bring food and coock themselves in her house, but never ever they eat her food. And it was a big mistake, she is a cook and makes amazing meals! I wonder if all of them are still mormons, they should be on their 40's now 😄
Thanks for sharing. Are Latvians catholics or orthodox Christians? I know you still have some orthodox churches in your country, but are you originally orthodox?
Random, but when I was in Gymnasiet (Swedish equivalence of high school, roughly) in about 2003 or 04 our teacher presented two young men dressed in white short sleeve shirts, short hair, seemed tired. I think it was social studies. They where from the U.S. and made it clear that they would let every student ask a question about life in the U.S., "but we will not answer any questions about politics" (I had prepared a question about the war in Iraq in my head). Can't remember what they talked about all these years later, but realize now that they where probably mormons on a mission?
Every time I’ve seen young men dressed like that, they’re LDS missionaries lol, so I would guess so. I can even spot the girls without the name tags, they do modesty differently than the evangelicals. More flounces, fewer denim maxis. I’m always surprised by how many missionaries we get where I live, which is 10-15% LDS but we have a temple. I mostly see them calling bingo at the hospital, it looks so boring but the more I learn, I imagine it’s dull but at least it’s safe and they’ve got a specific, non-religious job to do.
It could also possibly be jehovahs witnesses - they arent allowed to have political opinions or be politically active at all if I recall correctly
@@peacesells5707 JWs don't routinely go on missions though. They mostly try to convert people in their own area.
I saw them few months ago in my town! it's really rare to see mormon here(Seoul), and my town is small and mostly old people live here so I thought it was interesting😂 but I don't think they can success cuz younger people who can speak English well enough to have some conversation, won't fall for them. and old people who might have interest with Mormonism can't speak English😂
The JW's that always came to my home were always stylishly dressed but would only speak to my husband@peacesells5707
The whole reacilmating back into society as Alyssa basically puts it in returning from the mission honestly sounds like what alot of soliders have issues with upon returning from service once out.
Two groups of people believing that they’re fighting for the greater good only to come back from the “fight” to realize the only thing they’re bodies had been sent to do was indoctrinate and destroy peoples lives
I think it depends a lot on the missionary, but for real. for me when I left my mission was actively excited to see everything I missed. I can't say that anything in my life has filled me with that same wonder and exploration as everything being new and exciting since I was a child, and I was so into hearing all the music and seeing all the movies and all the rest
probably also worth noting that I left for the mission in Oct 2000 and came home early in April 2002, so the world I left and the world I came home to were literally very different places
I heard other interviews say this church has $$ Billions. They could take care of homelessness & hunger every where in the U.S. that they have a church. That sounds like that would be a really good mission project, good use of their money & time & good PR too.
A crossover that we love to see! Thanks for sharing your voice/story with us! Love you both and your mission to talk about these things and break the cycle! ❤
The discourse around the illusion of choice and the question on spiritually manipulating people to get them baptised reasonated a lot with one of my experiences with mormonism.
For context, I was baptised catholic due to social pressure on my parents, but neither our household nor my upbringing were ever religious. I rememeber that even as a kid, once I started going to catechism "socially" around 6, I resented being thrust into that whole shebang without having a say in it, or before I could even know what it was all about.
Cue my mormon friend, whose parents once invited my mother and me to their church (and yes, they _obviously_ gifted us a copy of the Book of Mormon, too), and the one thing I remember from that experience was being in awe when someone told me that mormon kids get baptised later in life. And I _distinctly_ remember thinking that it was the coolest thing ever because it was presented to me as a _choice_ on the kids' behalf.
So basically, one of the adults in that church clocked on one of my grievances with my then-current religion and spun a narrative in which mormonism would give me the thing I felt catholicism had failed me with.
Ultimately it went nowhere, but damn, do they know how to try and sell it.
On the subject of being indoctrinated into compliance even when something happens that makes one feel uncomfortable or bad, that's honestly horrible. I had issues with my local priest over my first communion because I had moved towns and wanted to do it with my former peers, and when he started being difficult over paperwork, I flat out told my mother, "That's it, I'm doing the communion but I'm not sticking around for confirmation", and she was fully supportive. And later on, when I switched to the local ortodox church and served as an altar boy, when the priest scolded me for wearing shorts in summer (which you couldn't even notice under the tunic), I was like "Yeah, f*ck it, I'm out of here".
I can't even begin to imagine how horrible it must be not to have this kind of agency because of indoctrination or fear of social consequences.
I’ve never had this thought before but when you think about a missionary having to find ppl to talk to everywhere they are, all the time & how prevalent MLMs are w/ Mormons/Utah one could see how easily you could go from one to the next because to most people that would be so awkward but in a way, it’s the same principle except ones for the Prophets & ones for products. You’re also paying THEM to do their marketing for free for both. I hope that makes sense. Ugh hearing these missionary stories is heartbreaking. I can’t imagine doing that, not being able to talk to my loved ones & for THAT long!!
I was thinking the same thing! So many similarities!
- paying the church/company to work for them
- being encouraged to be working anytime anywhere
- shame and guilt when you don't meet the goals
- being made to see any person you meet as a potential convert/recruit
- the idea that the church/company can do no wrong
- telling people that if they aren't seeing success it must be their fault for not being faithful/commited, hardworking enough, even when it's things completely out of their control
- being told you're "helping people" when it's really just for the benefit of the church/company
I'm sure there are more I'm not thinking of too!
I've heard that previous generations of missionaries came back as great door to door salesmen and current ones are returning as social media experts
@@Link-dx1lxCULT
I've been waiting for this! Both of you do such amazing work, educating folks about their options and outsiders about things to look out for and how to help. Thank you so much for bringing more humanity into the world.
Ah! I'm so excited for you to finally have Alyssa on ❤
Thanks for reaffirming my decision to raise my kids without religion.
Love all of your guests. This young lady broke my heart! So into her church only to find it false. 😢 Truly wish her the best.
I have to add I am touched by your ability to recognize the fact that Mormon missions have real consequences for others in addition to the missionaries. So young, yet so wise!
WOWZA 😮
Fantabulous vid ❤
I can't believe how many similarities there are between Momonism & scametology (scientology)
Fascinating interview. Thank you both. I lived once opposite two girls doing their Mormon mission. Living so close we often passed on the road. I felt very sorry for these young women who always looked unhappy and put upon. But talking to them was very hard for me as their conversation was totally directed. Now I understand that they were brain-washed and coerced to stay within the bounds all the time.
I'm grateful that my neighbour was willing to sit down with them, listen and talk with them on their level.
Break the silence. Break the cycle.
Amen 🙏
Why does God need so damn much help converting people? He’s a God.
Finally, the crossover we’ve been waiting for!!!!
Wow. My favourite interview so far. How well articulated. I'm going to follow her channel.
Long time viewer here. I got a new job where I'm working with an ex young earth creationists lady. And as we were talking I asked who did your reprogramming, and she said you did and it blew my mind. Great work here on your platform! Seeing your effect in the real world
So cool you guys are both so candid about your lives. I bet it gives a lot of people in your (previous) positions comfort.
Bringham Young.... Bring em young 🥴
😲👏👏👏
I live in Alberta Canada and we get a lot of Mormon missionaries from Utah. There were two girls in my town standing with a little stand full of books, I crossed the road to walk past them because I actually wanted to talk to them and ask them questions. Like if how they separated deciphering a book with a rock and a hat, from divination. But they literally backed away and avoided me, wouldn't even make eye contact with me. Hahaha I'm guessing it must be my evil tattoos! Hahaha poor girls
Hi from North Battleford Sask. We always have two LDS missionaries arroud. The church rents a tiny town home by my friends. I feel so bad for them trying to convert people here. Fyi I am a Christian in a church that does give money and food to the needy of our little city.
I love this woman so much!!!! Alyssa is fabulous.
She's so thoughtful and articulate. 10*
Here from your video with Alyssa on her channel and I’m so glad she introduced me to it.
Love everything I’ve watched so far all day.
Welcome to C2C!😁
My brother is law is 1 of 6 kids(2g 4b) and was raised mormon. All the boys left the church. All the kid where told that their parents would pay for school if they when to any of the byu schools. 2 boys joined the military, 1 trade school and the youngest stayed long enough to graduate from byu Rexburg.
He almost didn't get his diploma because him and his fiance signed on an apartment together and only he had moved in before they got married but on paper it looked like they lived together before that!
Not sure what they had to do to prove they didn't live together but thankfully get got it!
I like your way of thinking about the waste of the Mormon mission. I’m from Guatemala and it irked me so much when ex Mormons say they are thankful for it. They got to learn a new language or something. But at least here, the people they are converting are so poor, un educated and vulnerable. If they don’t see how problematic it is because they learnt a new language then they still have some work to do on themselves.
I came here bc of Alyssa's video w you and I'm so glad I did. It's very interesting listening to different opinions bout mormonism.
I've been listening to both of your channels regularly for a while! happy to check the collab out!!
Didn’t know missionaries were/are treated so badly. 💔 great interview, looking forward to the live.
and it's been that way for a long time... I'm a bit older than Alyssa and was sent to Houston for mine. For a few months I was assigned to a wealthy part of the city. At that time, they weren't doing the thing Alyssa talked about where we might have lived with members, and the church being as stingy as they are, had us live in a poorer part of the city. On top of that we also weren't given a car to get to our assigned area, and so we would have to bicycle into that part of town, on the highway, for over an hour each way. And because it was so important that we spend all the time possible prosletyzing, that meant my companion and I had to wake up an hour earlier than everyone else each day in order to bike it to our area, during rush hour traffic, on time, and had to bicycle back home late at night after sundown again along that busy highway.
all because putting our lives at risk was worth the money they saved by both not giving us access to a car or an apartment in the area we were supposed to be working
Soooo so excited that you got Alyssa on! Her tiktok is so good and it’s great hearing her story in a long forum.
In youtube she have lots of long videos, in case you are interested :)
If the body is a temple, I prefer to adorn mine with the most beautiful images.💞
Same here!!
I learn something important in each episode I watch. Thank you for such intelligent and eloquent content!
Happy to hear that!
I grew up Assemblies of God and I identified with SO MANY things she's talked about. I actually use to watch documentaries about different cults and I'd be embarrassed, confused and ashamed that my upbringing in the assemblies of God was so similar to the cults I was watching in that documentary. Just crazy!
Same here, church of Christ.
My best friend (during middle & high school +) & her family were members of a local Assembly Of God Church. I went to her church & “youth group” several times. I was raised Presbyterian, and I will never forget a young woman from Assembly Of God sitting me down and telling me that one is only “saved” if they speak in tongues. I was in disbelief and asked a lot of questions (for which she seemed to have answers). However, I must have talked to my parents or someone else I trusted about this matter & they reassured me that their belief was just that, and I shouldn’t let it affect me. I didn’t let it bother me much, but I will never forget how “cultish” that all seemed in hindsight.
I was so happy to see this video. 2 of my fav content creators all in one place.
I think my Baptist college took notes on how BYU students got around the rules when making their rulebook... Ours tried to close as many loopholes as possible! 90% of students had to live on campus, with an enforced curfew. No visiting the dorm of the opposite sex. No sitting in parked cars. No physical affection of any kind. The list goes on and on!
Wow and I thought my Bible College was strict; not like that.
Was it Pensacola Christian College?
Gotta be Pensacola or Bob Jones…😂
I need more of this conversation! Didn’t even realize that this was 1:40h long 😂
(I did a lot of knitting while watching though).
You should put all your Linda Listen moments on the clips channel!
Agree 💯
Two of my favorite channels and UA-cam hosts! Loved the discussion! Thank you👍🏻☀️🌻
As a Christian who is debating his faith, thank you for an honest, open and heart-warming discussion on the the absolute absurdity of the Mormon Church
Ooooh I was wondering when this collab was gonna happen. Been following the both of y'all for awhile.
Amazing video as always! I loved listening to your journey and learning more about mormon beliefs and the illusion of choice. I wish that in terms of places where to go during a mission, the young person PAYING to go would be able to decide which country they want to be in + that it would be made clear thay they can quit and come back home anytime (without having to explain or justify themselves).
I'm from Peru, a few months before covid started I was in a catholic procession near my home, two mormon girls from de US passed by and ask me and my family what was going on and why their was so many people wearing purple, following an image (The lord of Miracles). They were my age and they seemed really fun an courious. A few days later they knock on my door I knew some things about what they were doing and about their religion like their history and what they believe in because of youtube and google, i also had one friend in school that was a mormon. So I decided to talk to them, in fact they were really kind and fun people. We schedule another meeting in a park, obviusly they try to change my faith, I already knew that is what they came to my country to do so it didn't bother me at all, and at the end we kind of talk about some random teenage girl stuff. I wish we could have been friends but they weren't allowed. When covid hit i wondered what happened to them and hope they returned home safely. Hopefuly we will meet again
1:33 I was told the same working with evangelical missionaries. This was always one of those grains of sand grinding in my mind leading eventually to my deconversion.
For me, policing adults' clothing and micromanaging their behavior sounds extremely infantilizing. You can follow all the rules, if you believe those help, but enforcing them is another thing. It just leads to loopholes and not getting caught, because now it's more important to look righteous, than to be one. It sounds utterly counterproductive, even in a religious sense.
It's so funny to me to hear the BYU stories. A high school classmate (non-Momon from Colorado) went there on a swimming scholarship, and promptly got kicked out. 1972
I have never seen anyone that looks more Mormon than Alyssa
I think she's mentioned before, that her family line goes way back to pioneers and some place in Utah was named after her ancestors, so 100% mormon 😅
That was amazing!
Thank you so much Shelise for introducing me to Alyssa!!!
Watching you and her on her channel now lol and it’s so informative and I’m learning NEW things about you lol!
As always I love you bunches ❤
I love Alyssa’s content so this collaboration is so exciting to see!
This was so validating. The guilt and shame is so ingrained.
I knew a returned missionary writing a letter to all those he baptized, explaining why he didn't belief anymore and apologized to them for being of assistance to converting them to becoming a member. Something happened that shook his foundation with Christianity.
Always a pleasure seeing my favorite two creators collaborating💕💕💕
I was raised in the Mormon faith. My parents went to church with me nearly every Sunday until I was close to the age of 5. After this age they rarely took me to church. When I was 14 my parents made me go to seminary. I also started reading the scriptures daily. When I was 15 I went to seminary and to church every Sunday. Church really benefited me and helped me be a better more loving person. I met my husband at institute, close to the age of 24 and we were married in the temple when I turned 25. Those people Alyssa baptized might have benefited from the church even though she can't see that now. Close to the age of 30 I read Meditation for Dummies by Stephan Bodian and picked up a mantra meditation practice that benefited me 10x more than the Mormon church ever did. Close to the age of 40 I quit going to church as it didn't teach true meditation and taught that feelings are evil and I just couldn't deal with the lying in the church anymore. I didn't learn about the CES letter until a few months ago when I was 53. I just figured the sealed part of the Book of Mormon would teach meditation and that feelings were not evil. Now it sounds like one big hoax, but even if it was a hoax, somehow it ended up benefiting me from the ages of 14 to 30. I am glad to know it was a hoax after I discovered mantra meditation. I don't know what I would have done had I discovered the Book of Mormon was a hoax before having mantra meditation to help me with my daily life.
babe wake up, new Cults to Consciousness dropped
🙌🏼🙌🏼
I have been down the rabbit hole since Katie Holmes left Tom Cruise. From Tony Ortega to Leah Remini, to John Dehlin, to Lauren Matthias et al. to True Crime. Through the Daybell trial to my obsession with the Karen Read case, my husband has usually humored me at least for a few moments, but there is almost nothing he has been interested enough to actually watch or listen to with me. Then one day I heard a familiar voice emanating from his ipad. Lo and behold, it was Alyssa! I asked him what he was watching, and he said, “I’ve been watching this ex-Mormon, Alys…”
“I KNOW who it is! I said. I just wondered why you were watching her.” He explained that you are funny and smart and your husband left with you and he just likes your videos! (And, fascinated, that “She really DOES look Mormon”)!
So, high praise from myself and my husband, who is usually guffawing at old SNL skits or zoning out to some mechanic with a power sander! Great stuff!
Btw I loved your latest on the Mormon Wives! Astute!
I grew up devout Calvinist(now agnostic) in South Africa. My only exposure to the LDS church was a few of the videos they show kids once in a cults & sects presentation, on a church camp, to basically show us "Look how ridiculous these people are". I have NO idea why UA-cam recommended Shelise and Alyssa at different times to me in the past year. But, I immediately started following both. They're the only ex Mormons I know, so I'm sooooo excited to see this collab!
Seeing you two together made me so happy. You both have been so helpful for my own deconstruction of Mormon trauma. Love you both and please keep sharing your stories ❤
NO WAY... you both together at once! Super cool.
A few years ago I met a young Mormon boy from the US who went to my German city for his mission and I often wonder how he's doing and if he's still in the church. When he tried to talk to me about the Mormon church I immediately said I'm an atheist and he seemed relieved to not having to convince me anymore so we proceeded to just chat normally while I waited for my bus. I felt so sorry for him bc he said he's been awake since around 6 am and still had to work until 7 or 8 pm (it was raining so much oof). He said he kinda misses home but it's also exciting to be here. Genuinely hope he's happy no matter where he is rn
Yessss alyssaaaa. ...I follow her since such a long time and I learned so much about Mormonism. Love her!!!
In the early 80’s we had 2 young men missionaries who came to our home to witness. We’re in the south and Baptist and challenged their thinking and what they’d been taught. We invited them back every Sunday afternoon for lunch and they came. For a couple of months. They were young and naive.
Yay! Loved this episode. Thank you for sharing! Adore you both!
Personally I am amazed when ex-mormons say they DON'T regret their mission because they learned a language or learned more about the world. They never seem to mention how they used, misled and objectified everyone they met. I really appreciate that Alyssa sees this.
We are so socially conditioned to accepting randomness and pain, that it very ever rarely enters it to ask whether this pain was necessary to the process or not. And that principle doesn't just apply to religion, but all abusive and authoritarian perspectives, whether that's politics, business, science or education.
It's like someone saddled with shit tons of student loans saying they actually enjoyed college. Yes it's true, but that makes the predatory loans all that much more insidious and horrifying.
Been waiting for this one! ❤
Oh, I have been waiting for this one!
i’m an atheist teenager but alyssa’s content and other content about cults in general absolutely fascinates me. my dad is also atheist but has absolutely no care in hearing anything of religion, i don’t really understand that. thanks for the video guys 👍
It's so sad Missionaries could actually do good with the vast wealth of the church, but the church only wants more money and converts. If it was simply a church funded trip to help out a community or help those who are less fortunate while only preaching to those who are interested, helping without expectations..... kinda like Jesus - the church might actually be a force for good in the world. Well, once the bigotry and systemic misogyny changes. Nothing you can do to correct the false doctrine, but at least do good in the world, support your members and quit hoarding wealth. It's criminal coerce young adults to pay to sacrifice so much and still treat them so poorly.
You two are so strong and powerful together! I just learned from you that I’m a Nevermo 😉, and both your channels are so educational to me. I think your collaboration is also strong and the two of you are a pleasure to listen to. Hopefully you will continue as duo hosts in the future! Keep up the good work, lovely ladies!
Greetings from the Netherlands 🌷 🌷 🌷
Just the idea of hugging some unknown person through a veil made me have an anxiety response 😬
I can totally see that.
Alyssa was so well spoken!! I would love to hear more conversations with the two of you!
Thanks for sharing this ya'll! It is very relatable, i went on a mission myself to the Eugene Oregon mission 2014-2016. Keep it up! I have been out for years now, i am learning a lot from each episode ya'll make. Very important work to make and support.
Aaaaah! Omg Who knew this was happening!?!?! I SURE DIDNT 😮😮😮❤❤❤ so exciting.
Great conversation. Thanks for sharing.
I'm at the point in the video where Alyssa discusses coming home from her mission and feeling no sense of purpose because all of the rules and the way she had to live during her mission have been ripped out from under her. That also happens to military veterans who return to civilian life and feel void of a sense of purpose for their lives.
EDIT: After posting my comment, I also realized that ex-convicts who have served their full sentence or have been paroled after many years of incarceration also feel this sense of not knowing how to make it through the day.
When she was talking about waking up past 6:30, it reminded me of a time my mission president told me that because I had issues waking up on time, there were people who would not be saved because of me.
Absolutely awful!!!
There’s a prominent LDS family locally who has become involved with the nonprofit I work for. It feels like they are slowly deconstructing, but in a place that isn’t obvious. It’s been incredible to see their daughter, now a young adult, find her own voice and seems to be postponing marriage with her beloved boyfriend simply so they can grow as people. Tbh, we never would have realized, but I knew her grandpa & know the upbringing. I’m pretty sure her parents intentionally brought her to us to benefit from feminism & liberal politics without having to go directly against the church. We get a lot of devout kids whose parents seem to know they’ll have their horizons broadened gently but firmly. Esp if I think a 9th grader is a college freshman, thank god I was too vague lol!
Thank u ladies for sharing ur lives
thank you so much for sharing your experience and feelings when you went through the temple, and how you felt around garments. i had a very similar experience, and my mormon mission is what pulled me forward as well.
Great interview! It's such a joy to listen to you both, as you are so well articulated! Very interesting to learn about all the rules, and how young people react to them. It makes me think that it would also be very interesting to see an interview with somebody who has left one of the strictest Catholic orders, like the discalced Carmelites (the cloistered nuns in particular) or the Carthusians (monks who live like semi hermits) and to compare those experiences,
If anyone is interested in that topic, I think "Through the Narrow Gate" by Karen Armstrong is a great book when it comes to describing cult like experiences from a Catholic monastery (they are not all as bad, though - and things have changed a lot since she was a 16 year old postulant/aspiring nun). Also the sequel "The spiral staircase" about trying to adjust to the world again after she left.