Make an EASY Amsteel soft shackle with overhand knot - includes break tests!
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- Опубліковано 13 чер 2024
- We love the button knot for our soft shackles but there is an easier way and it is just as strong. Michael Melner shows you how to make the easy soft shackle with an overhand knot and we break test a 6mm and 5mm afterwards.
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Anybody with a Slack Snap machine in their garage beside the washer and dryer deserves a thumbs up, and a subscription. I am 60 and do not highline, but I'll give you a thumbs up. Cheers from Canada.
I use my soft shackles for hammock camping and my tarp setup. There's some really good benefits for using them instead of a carabiner. Weight savings is probably the primary reason, cost is another HUGE one, and my favorite thing about them is they can't snag up on any of my lightweight fabrics and bugnetting when my gear is tightly packed away.
I wasted HOURS of my life tying button knot soft shackles the old way. I'm definitely doing this style from now on!! ...unless I make bracelets... The traditional button knot does makes really cool looking 1-ton bracelets (with a 50% safety margin). I like the sound of '1-ton bracelet' so that's what I call them, even though they break at 3000-ish pounds. My bracelets and hammock hanging shackles are made out of 7/64 which seems to be the hammock industry norm.
A 200-pound person hanging on a very tightly hung hammock (5° suspension angle) generates under 1200 pounds of suspension tension. There's a general rule that you should aim for about 30° suspension angles so the forces are reduced on your gear. At a 30° suspension angle the same 200 pound person only puts 200 pounds of tension on the suspension.
I'm not a physicist, I used the Hang Calculator to come up with these numbers. Google "Hammock Hang Calculator" if you want to play with some different hammock hang configurations and see what forces are involved. It's a pretty cool tool.
I use dyneema and soft shackle on my sailboat. (headsail tack and sheet connection) i did my own soft shackle with 3 mm and a overhand not. Still holding well after 7 years. i will never reach half the limits of 3mm dyneema but the safety of not having a metal shackle flying around and the convenience of having a simple and fast way to change my sail is priceless.
I’ve been a fan of the climbing content recently. So more of that always works for me
I don't even highline and probably never will. But your exhaustive testing helps me understand the practical working limits of the things I use in other recreationally and vocational disciplines. Softshackles are so damn versatile and can be used in every facet of our lives. It blows my mind that knots are nut taught and emphasized in core education. I can't count the times I have had to help people tie crap to their cars in parking lots.
Every facet of our lives? I really don't want to think about how to use a soft shackle with my Water Pik.
Hi there Ryan .....Rabbit hole time..... I don't climb or high line but come from a maritime (fishing and sailing) and remote area working background, I have been making my own soft shackels for a few years (not life support) and have watched the methods evolve. I mainly use the standard looped button knot soft shackle for specific jobs but have a need to have a flexible/adaptable compact quick and dirty rigging solution. I have started to carry long bury continuous loops and tie them on the fly into soft shackles when required. I use an overhand knot like Micheal but instead of threading the end through the two sliced loops I thread the end through the single loop formed by the continuous loop. I have found that the limited wraps of the overhand knot allow it to tension up in a predictable and almost self leveling way, and almost seams like it is not critical to pre-tension, the knot is large, and the because it is feed through the continuous loop end very secure.
Would love to see you load test this type of soft shackle, this method produces a versatile soft shackle which has many different types of connecting/button capturing techniques and applications:
- for quick light duty connection use as is and just pass the button through the loop (large button does not pass through and is held by the increasing tension on the loop as it is loaded) this is not so secure when unloaded but seems to be effective on material 1/4" and lower even without the noose
- for a little more security pass the loop through two lines at button and then wrap the loop back over the button
- cow hitch/girth hitch/larks head knot in end of loop slipped over button
- join the loop end to another loop in a line using a reef knot/lark head knot/ cats paw knot and use the gap in the center of the knot to securely capture the button (thus adding a retained soft shackle to the end of a line which has a loop installed)
- marlin spike hitch at end of loop this forms a functional noose which can be loosened like the standard soft shackle and slipped over the button
- can tie it to another line as a prusik with a button knot to create a clinch knot that can connect to loop terminated lines.
Would love to see you test some if not all these techniques, I generally use them in non critical applications but would appreciate a better understanding of how they would fail, and how much the soft shackles strength is compromised.
Really appreciate all your work, cheers
Hi, we use soft shackles (3-4 mm) for rigging in caves as a replacement for regular carabiners. We called it "light technique". It is not still popular, but when you have knowledge like showed in your movie it is easier to explain people how to do it correctly and safe. Thanks for the practical video.
I just got into soft shackles the other day and since you couldn't think of any uses in climbing... not any load bearing tasks but nonetheless:
I did make a tiny super easy soft shackle out of 2 mm accessory cord (rated for 0.8 kN, in 4 strands minus the knot, so roughly 1.6 kN maybe) and put it on one of my stoppers at the very end where the wire curves through the stopper part. That way it could potentially be useful when the stopper gets stuck and you can pull out the soft shackle with a nut tool and clip a carabiner to it, to get a good yank on the stopper to hopefully retrieve it more easily.
It could also just replace pretty much many accessory carabiners which aren't load bearing and which you don't clip and unclip very frequently. (Because obviously carabiners are a lot less annoying to unclip than it is to open up a soft shackle like that, if you lock the soft shackle with a girth hitch to itself. Note that with accessory cord there are no splices and no eyes involved, so a girth hitch is probably the best locking mechanism I know for those... In case the shackle stays constantly loaded it would be enough to just put the entire loop over the knot. For cyclic loading & unloading a tightened girth hitch seems to hold bomber.)
E.g. attaching something to your backpack or to a tree branch or something while you're at the crag
Or to attach something to a haul line without needing a dedicated carabiner.
When staying over night on a big wall I've seen you guys use a large horizontal anchor cluster to keep stuff organized - you could hang up shoes, bottles, backpacks etc. to those anchors without needing 36 carabiners, but instead use just a handful of these tiny soft shackles. That could save a bit of weight as well.
i climbed, 20 years ago, but I just ordered some 10mm Dyneema to make soft shackles for winching / offroading. Huge thanks for the tests and the simplified knot! Will pull a jeep out of a mud pit with some 10mm and let ya know how it holds up!
HD soft shackles are popular with the off-road crowd. Advertised breaking strength in the 40K-lb range are typical.
But for less demanding tasks I make super simple ones from braided Kevlar. A length of cord, ends tied in a simple overhand knot, and the far bend attaches with a Lark's Head which I think you use another name for. No penetration anywhere through the braid. This takes less material and probably 1/10 the time of a typical soft shackle (only seconds in the field), but undoubtedly comes with a strength loss. I compensate by simply making it way bigger than probably necessary and have never had a problem. But it would be interesting to know how this "10% design" break tests compared to proper techniques. Since I've never failed one, I don't even know where the weak point is.
PS, as simple as this approach is, I certainly didn't invent it. Performance sport kites use this exact method to attach their control lines.
Impressive strengths. I would never have thought they'd be that strong!
I use these when offroading, I make soft shackles out of my old winch ropes. I just found this video of the overhand knot and it is much easier to tie and the big knot actually seems to make them easier to use.
I put mine in a winch to tighten the knot. Rock hard now.
Hi,
Good video on soft shackle,
They are becoming more popular as a replacement for stainless steel shackles in sailing.
Tks Pat - SY Stella Australis
I found this channel years ago because soft shackles get used a lot for light weight hammocks. Most people use 7/16" or 1/8" for that, but you won't fall further than a bar stool. I couldn't find button knot directions that I could actually follow anywhere else. I'm curious to try out this method because it looks a lot faster to make. Thanks so much!
Tyler Battle I don’t climb or slack line, I found this channel looking for break test info on the Dynema I use on my hammocks. I’m typing this right now while hanging in my hammock from 2 shackles tied exactly like this. They work great.
I have very limited knowledge of soft shackles, could you explain why you would use a soft shackle for hammocks instead of a simple knot? Soft shackles are used because they're stronger than knots aren't they? But would this make any difference in the low load of something like a hammock?
TacBlades has a nice tutorial with measurements for 7/64 amsteel. He uses locked brummels for the loops but I kinda like this method as it's a bit quicker and easier.
ua-cam.com/video/K0eZz36PRYI/v-deo.html
So, first a soft shackle does employ knots. The reason these instructions on creating the knot end via either a diamond knot, button knot, overhand knots(others?) is that dyneema rope is very slippery, so the knot you create for hanging a hammock securely has got to be both hard to collapse and difficult to unfurl. After trying the button knot more times than I want to count, I was able to create soft shackles with the overhand knot quickly. This is awesome!
So now we wanna see you lead climb El Cap with a single carabiner (since some gear does need a biner) and a pile of soft shackles.
I work in a seine shop in Alaska called Bulletproof Nets we use Samson Amsteel quite often, instead of using duct tape use electrical tape it has great stretch so gets super tight when cutting and is way cheaper for a roll instead of duct tape and packs much smaller. Thanks for this great tip on using the overhand knot! Also you can tape over your tapers and insert and you can actually milk the line back down itself if you don't have the d fid like you have. Thanks so much for sharing!
I use them extensively on my yacht instead of ss shackles, stronger and dont smah things when a sheet goes flying.
I use them for recovering my ATV when it gets stuck
I was looking up winches with soft shackles vs steel shackles and came across your video. I will try a couple of these knots and see if they make a difference when I use them on my winch. cool vids stay safe!
I'd definitely be interested in seeing more about how things like the taper affect soft shackle strength. Also things like how much you can mess up either these soft shackles or the button knot ones before it seriously impacts the strength.
i want to tie button knots wrong, then break test them so we know how bad one can screw up before dying
HowNOTtoHIGHLINE
Give me a while after watching this masterclass. I’ll have some magnificently screwed up attempted soft shackles for you.
I've been looking into them for Arbroist use
Me to. I think they are perfects as base anchor insurance, when logs can hit your carabiners and metal conections. Also pulling redirects in case shit starts flying. Did you come up with anything?
Good video. I use these when I tree climb when hunting as a loop for the tether among other things. They are quiet (no metal on metal) and easy to use :)
I've found that a tanto shaped knife cuts this type of line (for tapering) quite well. I only slice in one direction (away from me) and I can usually slice through without having to saw with the knife.
Spitballing here:
- 2nd belay loop (directional while route setting)
- bail biner
- rap slings
- as an emergency quickdraw threaded directly through a bolt hangar
Dude, yes! A 2nd belay loop would be awesome! Looses strength when inside a climbing hanger because of sharp edges but still about as strong as a carabiner haha. Can't rappel off of it though because rope on rope abrasion would cut through it
@@HowNOT2 Yeah, I wouldn't lower using a soft shackle but I would rappel off of one. I know plenty of people who like carrying extra kit and can see them having 1 or 2 just as bail biners. What about threading a soft shackle through a bolt hanger and turning it into a quickdraw? There are plenty of in-a-pinch uses for soft shackles.
Pretty standard here to rap of slings especially in the alpine. Rope on rope abrasion for one rap shouldn't be too bad? I've changed a few of my practices because of this channel (better ways of doing things mostly). So cheers keep it up man.
Better have a maillon for all that other stuff, at least if someone takes it after a while it's still usable, leaving dyneema in the elements is worse than leaving cordalette because of uv...
@@dahabclimber2480 Dyneema is UV resistant. Nylon is not.
I use soft shackles to attach a sled on to the back end of a Jetski. for rescue purposes. I think you could use them at the bottom of a lead rope solo climb for the bottom anchor. This way if there was to be some movement in the system you would not have a gate load situation.
in the Elbsandsteingebirge you are not allowed to place metal protection and would love to see your take on using different types of knots etc for trad climbing in places like this especially the monkey fist knots that are prevelant there,
It would be really interesting to see the influence of taper.
It's really well known by the "splicing community" that taper are really important but at wich point makes it a real difference, who knows?
I would even do a longer taper in the Michael's one. ^^
Also, I always saw that kind of shackle with 2 brummel eyes, I've never seen only with the burry before but it looks like there is no differences.
Or could we spot some slipping at the eyes after the break test? That could be interesting as well, maybe by putting a mark before loading?
If the bury is long enough, that’s what provides the strength of the eye. The locked brummel part of it mainly makes sure it doesn’t come loose when it’s *not* under tension.
I use my soft shackles for attaching my climbing sticks and stand for whitetail hunting. They also work great for Hammock camping
The importance of the tapering in dyneema splices was extensively tested by some guys on the Sailing Anarchy forum some years ago. But of course it would be nice to see it on video...
Charts are interesting, but a guy who says WOW after every break test makes it better :)
Do you happen to have a link to that? can't seem to find it and I'm kinda mindblown just how big a difference it seems to make.
Given a softshackle has 4 parallel strands and it broke at the "how not to taper" at 2x the breaking strength of the rope it seems that not having a propper taper cuts the strength in half!
Keep it going
How any authorities approach you to test anything. Couldn't imagine many police departments would have such a well tested test rig.
Awesome! Button knot is so annoying. All I need is an idea, how to make this shackle adjustable (for smaller diameter of dyneema, and for much, much smaller loads). Have you ever tried to figureout adjustable shackles?
Yes on checking out taper parameter
Started checking your videos out, was interested in the soft shackles for winch applications, used to rock climb way back when and was looking at the impressive gear wall, has no one else noticed the, errr, marital aid hanging on the bottom left of the wall 😛
Nice to see the break test, but a button knot is faster to make (if you done it i couple of times) and looks so much better.
Great Chanel! I use flush cutting pliers for the tapper. Easy pesie.
Stanley knife for the win.
So did you ever make a taper burry comp video? I would love to see that
Where I work we're implementing these in place of certain shackles lanyards etc. Would love to see a breakdown to measurements, I've used the button knot on 1" x 12' soft shackle (endura 12) would love to see some more results
hi, checking out both you break video here , iam from the sailboat rigging would where we attached to fixed fittings a lot. in both you break tests , at 13.39 and 14.50 in the video the failure is starting as the line goes over the 'rough shackles'. In sailing we know the shackles of fittings must be super smooth to avoid premature failure , polished stainless , hard-coat anodize polished aluminum etc.
You may want to add then to your test rig to get repeatable tests.
cheers warren
I like your informative videos. I am curious if the position knot makes a difference in breaking strength. (Totally free air between the metal shackles vs. centered on one of the shackles.)
This method is great for small diameter but it doesn't scale up as well as the button knot you waste alot in the buries. Love the channel allows people to not take companies words on breaking strength
Is there a formula to calculate, or at least closely estimate, how much length you need to end up with a certain diameter of shackle when you’re done?
Cut 6' of rope tie a knot measure the loop/ tail, that tells how much the knot takes for this diameter of cord < the amount consumed will verry by size of cord and amount buried> the 6footer seams to be a nice size to have on hand.a button head with 6” buried in each leg is ~2' open ; so ~12” in the knot and 12" for buried with 6mm
Love these videos because there is a lot of cross over between climbing gear and hammock gear. Nobody wants to fall at any distance lol
We use a lot of soft shackles in the sailing community/
Thanks for another great video! Can you tell me roughly what length of dyneema you used for the bracelet soft shackle?
Awesome video! I love how you explain and break stuff. I can’t find where you put the link for the source of your rope.
Updated
Not a rock climber here, im a tree climber, but soft shackles sound like an amazing option with tree rigging
Pavel Colledani
před 1 sekundou
Me too. I think they are perfects as base anchor insurance, when logs can hit your carabiners and metal conections. Also pulling redirects in case shit starts flying. Did you come up with anything else?
Soft Biners are nice to hang stuff off my backpack, and tarp/hammock ridgeline.
I cannot think about anything in climbing where a soft shackle could be used, but Dyneema could be a great option for natural protection, it could be very small to fit in tight holes an spliced in a continuous loop also very cheap, would love to see some loops broken
Great video. Thanks a lot mate.
I was wondering if anyone has tried a Capuchin Knot (Basically a Figure 8 Knot with an extra crossing) as the stopper. Its almost as simple as the Overhand Knot, which may be the reason that the Overhand holds in Amsteel and with the extra crossing may not need the Eye Splices to lock it. There must be a reason that an Overhand Knot will hold when the more complex Button Knot or even a Diamond Knot wont.
When I splice this type of soft shackle I do a brummel splice rather than just a bury loop at each end, and also put the loops right at the knot rather than leaving a short tail. This is in 4mm and 3mm dyneema for making hammock rigging. Could be interesting to see if it makes any difference.
Jethro Fennell I’m in the same boat; I use these for hammocking as well. The locked Brummells do reduce the strength slightly, but for hammock use we never put enough stress on our Dynema to get close to its limits, so we never see the change.
If you use a ceramic blade knife it cuts real easy.
Hey Ryan, are these ss solid for inov splits as well? Is the over hand knot much bigger than the butonhead and is that an issue for the line leash to run over?
Ok I just want to point out on the first shackle break test the shackle broke right where the shackle mold line was acting as a knife if you will. So I’d say that test is highly inconclusive. On the second test I could help to see that the shackle pin itself is machined round but through the rugged use I’d be willing to say that shackle pin probably has imperfections in it through use also acting as a knife as well as the soft shackle was riding up and down thus creating more unwanted heat. So I’d render the second test inconclusive too. Soft shackles are awesome and have probably thousands of different ways of making them. However the one way of making soft shackles I like I learned from a SAILING ZINGARO UA-cam video. It’s titled
DYNEEMA: how to splice it and make a soft shackle.
Personally this is the best way I think. Obviously my opinion but would like to see another break test on soft shackles made this way and a more controlled break test
Soft shackles might be able to be used to extend a clip in to a pinch anchor so you can get a deeper set on big walls or lead anchor climbing
Probably cheaper to just have a sling. I've heard this stuff is expensive
I cant find the link for your amsteel source! Thanks for the video- Its great to have an option for a more simple soft shackle! The button knot is daunting.
Added!
Can you please test some Chinese uhmwpe, Jeely winch rope is very inexpensive, would be interesting to see if they reach their stated breaking load.
People use soft shackles on hammock suspension made out of amsteel.
there are a bunch of great splicing videos and pdf's on samson's rope website for all types of ropes.
How about using a Brummel lock-splice? Would that be reliable? Would I need to feed that much rope inside?
Do you think there's any safe way to use a soft shackle with a recovery ring (I think that's what they are called. 4 wheel drive people use it with a soft shackle to make a snatch block.)?
Maybe use that combination instead of a carabiner at the top of a belay?
could you test a capsized carrick bend as the stopper
3:02 about a fathom or 6'
You should try this exact overhand knot only with the Brummel locking splice. I'm a rigger in sailing, and have been doing soft shackles for a long time. I've actually got lots of things you should try lol
It would be interesting to see if it really reduces the strength and by how much
Also strops, been making countless strops for people, but I believe the breaking strength is bury dependant, I like to double bury the ends (bury OVER each other once they meet in the middle) and it would be interesting to see if this method adds any strength or subtracts or whatever. Anyway, I'm no UA-camr, but hit me up and let's break more things, I'll send you videos of things you can make.
In the offroading world, soft shackles are made several different ways and usually end with a diamond knot.
You can use them as nuts for climbing.
we are going to test that in our cam crusher device :)
Hey, so you are saying as 'soft protection' this is what I was thinking, especially for limestone type crags and seaside crags.
They could be a versatile option as a tent anchor when camping on rock (e.g. Georgian Bay). Should be lighter and cheaper than climbing gear, and an application that's not life critical.
Off-road and sailing communities use soft shackles all over the place. As long as you have metal in metal out you should be fine.
I’ll preface this by saying I’m a hammock camper, not a slackliner. That being said, I hang with 1/8” loops made with the improved button knot. Instead of making a noose, I make a loop, and put the end through the legs under the knot, and loop it up and over the knot. I find it equilizes on its own, and in order to break, it wound have to break all 12 strand, not the splice for the loop. Would that make sense in your sport?
How about using soft shackles instead of cam bieners, or even replacing cam slings with soft shackles?
I’m also not sure where you would use a soft shackle in climbing. Maybe extensions for quick draws or anchor points? I would like to see what quick draws break at and where they break (at which beiner or at the webbing)
along the czech german border there are places where metal pros are not allowed so they trad clim using knots as protection
Dinema ❤️
Would be interested in seeing shock load tests with dyneema. While not as useful for highlining, there’s lots more shock load when using dyneema slings for a PA or anchor for instance while climbing. Gotta build a drop machine next!
I want a drop test tower. It would be fun!
Based on tests here, shock loads are ~40% higher with dyneema than with equivalent nylon slings: ua-cam.com/video/Vrgadjo9niY/v-deo.html
The bracelet soft shackle is considered bomber for any highline use if you're going out with Andy Lewis :D
True. Probably overkill haha
Would you use a reef knot with fisherman's?
Try a cow hitch for the noose without a pass through please
Maybe use them as bail anchors to rappel off of, they are super light? Carry a 7/64 one for emergency rappels? Can a rope be threaded through and then pulled?
You would die. The climbing rope under tension would cut through it. Ropes moving over ropes is bad.
HowNOTtoHIGHLINE I think he means double roping down (so no abrasion during the rap) and then just pulling down one leg once you’re on the ground
What is the breaking strength of an amsteel dogbone? I have been super interested but can't find anyone who has tried it.
Question: Can you use a soft shackle in place of a carabiner/shackle in a line locker?
Like this:
goo.gl/photos/NJpLRNGk5FaEhijp8 (excuse the poor placement of the stopper knot)
Please test tapers! IAnd try a diamond knot which is much easier to tie than either of these methods. I make lots for use on racing sailboats. If you pre set them properly, they get rock hard. Amsteel is made with SK 78 grade dyneema. Marlow ropes makes a higher grade D12 Max using SK 99. That would be cool to test out, but I’m actually more interested to learn how tapers affect breaking strength. Thanks for the awesome content!
Great suggestion!
The diamond knot is much easier to tie and looks beautiful. I use a simple girth hitch on the other end of the soft shackle
Do these need to be set aswell?
I'm watching most of these for hammock and tarp use, but slack line has me curious. However, at my age, the floor gives me trouble with balance sometimes lol.
How do these breaks compare to the breaking strength of the basic Dyneema? How does this compare to a button knot? A diamond knot?
As I'm sure you know, sailors like soft shackles.
By "improper taper" do you mean by not putting a taper? As in it would create a pinch where the burry ended?
yes
So is the button knot soft shackle or the overhand knot soft shackle stronger?
What about a soft shackle as a carabiner?
try making anchor slings out of am steel so make some 30cm 60 cm spliced loops with brummel splicing and long bury and a combo of the two
for climbing uses maybe for holding gear like Retainer slings. or keeper cords.
Could you use a soft shackle to make your own dyneema slings/cordelettes?
there is a risk they could open. Sewn dyneema slings are better
break test just an am steel spliced loop with 3 passes and burried? can we make a stronger loop than a climbing sling??!
I think: The soft shackles are what he replaces the slings with when he breaks cams (the slings always break before the metal on the cams give out). Shackles are way stronger.
you could make some passive pro.
Normally you advocate for setting the soft shackle knot before use by tensioning - flipping - tensioning -flipping and so on. Why not here? Is it not necessary?
Why don’t y’all use scissors to cut your dyneema? Total game changer.
Can you break test a double fisherman's knot?
Stay tuned! Upcoming episode with 30 some knot break tests.
Balancecommunity.com has a good data sheet on soft shackles and the different types
could be used as soft passive gear
Try putting a line the length of the shackle so as that defamation is more readily visible and the failure analysis portion of the test has more evidence to be interpreted.
It would be interesting to see various tapers tested EG two strands every inch, one strand every inch, two strands every 2 in ect. ect.
racked up with a dozen soft shackles, long story short im looking for a new climbing partner
Is that a kitchen knife?
A proper knife and a pair of cable splicers snips plus a fid would make this process far easier. I found the video to be both informative and entertaining .
Overhand knot and a larkshead over it