@@aann Yeah I figured, it’s more of a fun fact/“yo the headshot sound effect played!” thing lol. Usually I just keep it straight so there’s less room for hurtbox shifting silliness causing it to whiff
So TL;DR Shield Breaker is a good conditioning tool, rather than a good move itself. Showing your opponent that you're picking up their habits will force them to adapt
As a Sephiroth player I feel like Sephiroth's neutral B is kind of a projectile version of this move. There's kind of a mind game of how long you charge the neutral B and I've just let rip gigaflairs by conditioning the opponent before.
Incin main here. Very true. People don’t want to get hit by the 21%, so they jump and get hit from a mile away with fair. It’s not a true disjoint, but it extends almost the entire length of the hitbox in a single frame, so it’s hard as hell to hit him out of startup.
Alex Valle vs Bonchan is the perfect example of this, Alex as Hugo literally never went for his command grab but Bonchan’s Sagat is so terrified of it that he gives up the match
My personal favorite move that conditions the opponent the instant you throw it out is mii brawler's counter throw, which specifically works well against some jump-ins and as an air-to-air against almost anything. It might be a terrible move but you can get your opponent to play poorly solely by slapping it on your moveset, especially if you manage to style on them and get a kill off the top by buffering it out of a short hop. Either they jump less or they aren't as aggressive in the air, letting you control space really well or hit them with a raw mach punch and kill them off the top again respectively. Not to mention the fact that it has low recovery means you can just throw it out safely, and whiffing it in their close vicinity before slipping away is one of the most effective ways to condition your opponent with it in the short term. Also worth noting that one of my best characters, bowser, has SEVERAL moves that are great for conditioning including fair, flame breath, and side b which all encourage and beat different things leading to the world's most confusing game of rock paper scissors
I don't play Lucina or Marth that much, but I definitely use shield breaker when I play them. Not necessarily to break shields, but it's basically a smash move that you can charge in the air. A lot of people seem to misjudge the range and even at a lower charge it can move you ever so slightly in the air. Also, I never see anyone utilize the fully charge for recovery, but I use to get back to the stage too
it’s a really fun move :) using it as an aerial smash is a cool concept, i do that sometimes, but sometimes it can make ppl shield on you less, and i love breaking shields lol
@@aann I don't play Marcina myself but playing against them it seems to me like it's just not really that useful for recovering? Their air drift is good enough that I don't think you even gain any distance over just holding forward, meanwhile committing to charging lets me harass with projectiles or time an edgeguard for the moment they reach full charge. When caught without a jump at about stage height, directional air dodge seems to get them close enough to at least have a chance to recover from pretty dang far away, whereas Shield Breaker has too much charge time and too much endlag to pull it off from the same position. Like, it always seemed to be an option that Marcina players pick up early on because it looks like a movement tech but they eventually realize doesn't actually help them.
@@user-jw2it4qf2r I don’t think it’s that. I think it’s as your fundies improve using shield breaker in general becomes more niche. Playing other characters as well, neutral b isn’t a very common recovery option, which means that in accordance with your muscle memory the option fades into obscurity. But even then Shield breaker offstage is fine, especially being used early in the recovery since no one is going to willingly overextend to even try to catch you in most positions where it’d be useful unless they both read it and have an option that can actually call it out. Especially because the swiftness of Marcina’s recovery in general would condition most matchups to not commit to edgeguards against them. But this isn’t me saying it should be gone for often, it should be kept as a mix up still
I’m a samus main. And I like to play marth on the side a little. I noticed this has the same mix up potential as charge shot in a lot of circumstances. The turn around and the awkward timings really helps these characters take up space that their opponents need to respect. Shielding against well timed Marth and lucina options is such a natural and correct response that it just becomes a natural poking tool.
I like to use it during those times when everyone is at stupidly high percents where I REALLY don't want to be close to the opponent. Opponents tend to be caught off guard by how fast it comes out and get picked off by it.
Lol I’m a wifi demon for a seph in my area. He has a habit of charging flare in the air when drifting down back to ledge and I guess most ppl respect it. I play aegis so I can disregard it and can usually get a kill off of outplaying him since the move is kinda ass
i’ve been watching a lot of ultimate videos despite not having played it in a long time and informational yet entertaining videos like these are super fun to watch and make a game i would’ve otherwise not engaged with way more appealing to me! good vid man, keep it up :)
Just like Fox's blaster and shine are really just passives that force his opponent to fear both camping and zoning (not the same thing, though they're often seen together).
Exactly what I was thinking. Laser makes it so he almost never has to approach, then he can punish your approach. Even if you never use it, a smart opponent will know you can, so they have to play accordingly.
Just about any character with a reflector, really. Or, not a reflector specifically, but you feel like an absolute dunce when you heal Ness for 30% after how hard it was to charge up that projectile while dodging PK Fire. Or never mind eating an Oil Panic, in which case you're a moron times three. Pull those sorts of moves once to remind your opponent you're not afraid to use it, and suddenly they'll be afraid to use theirs~
Very interesting and chill video! After thinking about it, another smash character with a similar (but maybe not as pronounced hidden ability) is Meta Knight’s Mach Tornado. The standard ladder or bridge combo finisher for Meta Knight is Shuttle Loop, back air or neutral air, and often times opponents will be DI-ing or looking for a window to dodge out of the combo before they get to the blast zone. Mach tornado is slightly slower and harder to use than most other options, but what it can do is easily catch baited air dodges, successfully knock out an opponent thanks to its higher launching power and safely bring Meta Knight back to stage. It’s a powerful punish tool for opponents dodging into stage, but rarely used since… good MK’s are hard to come by (I don’t even play the game anymore; I stink at MK) and its use case is even rarer than Lucina’s shield breaker. Still interesting food to chew on though 🤔
I haven't played smash ultimate in about a year or so and this video popped up in my recommended. I really love this mind set of "passives", it makes things easier to understand and puts a lot of things into perspective. I get that you can also say "conditioning" but this video feels really refreshing. Honestly, I might just pick up smash ultimate again because of this vid also for such a banger video, sorting this comment section by new is depressing to see.
The fact you use Chrom as an example for Lucina just feel right. I really like playing Lucina, she was my second main, so I really like use the shield breaker everytime I see my opponent use shield a lot.
When reading the title I thought it was going to be something like R.O.B neutral-b but more obscure, but I see watchchu mean. Shield Breaking with this move is like hitting a command grab super with 0 frame startup post super flash. It never gets old.
One of the ultimate changes I really liked was changing this move that the shield damage doesn't scale with the charge anymore, but always deals half shield until it's full. This makes it really a lot more versatile than it was before.
After playing Smash Ultimate a lot I came to appreciate the simple but complete tools that Lucina brings in the game. It has a way to contest with many things, specially universal defensive options. Lucina's aerials and tilts are some of the best in the game, at least as a complete kit. Raw hits lose against shields, she doesn't have a great grab game but as you mention, shieldbreaker makes it a lot more scary and sometimes it can be simply better than having a killthrow (because shieldbreaker or fully charged F-smash can kill earlier). If your opponent decides simply to spot-dodge, her side-B nullifies that option completely, your enemy will always endure the 3rd and 4th hit, not to mention it can be a bit tricky to punish if mixed when attacking shields with it. And she conditions her opponent to shield and spot-dodge less, then Lucina doesn't have to worry about her aerials and tilts failing to hit that much.
It actually functions with shield in a very similar way to reflectors with projectiles. As a Mewtwo main, facing an opponent with a reflector means I have to be way more careful with my Shadow Ball, making it so even if said reflectors actually never gets used, it still has an considerable impact on the game
Shield breaker is a conditioner Because of its ability to break shields after one hit, you condition rolls, jumps, and attacks out of shield because holding shield risks a broken shield
My personal favorite move that conditions the opponent the instant you throw it out is mii brawler's counter throw, which specifically works well against some jump-ins and as an air-to-air against almost anything. It might be a terrible move but you can get your opponent to play poorly solely by slapping it on your moveset, especially if you manage to style on them and get a kill off the top by buffering it out of a short hop. Either they jump less or they aren't as aggressive in the air, letting you control space really well or hit them with a raw mach punch and kill them off the top _again_ respectively. Not to mention the fact that it has low recovery means you can just throw it out safely, and whiffing it in their close vicinity before slipping away is one of the most effective ways to condition your opponent with it in the short term.
the one thing i disagree with is that "little mac with a good recovery would be too much" his recovery is already not really as bad as people think, it's really just his aerials being almost entirely useless aside from niche uses, his ground moves really not even being that strong, besides his smash attacks (your smash attacks being very good is NOT enough to offset all of your other moves being kinda ok or trash and useless) his tilts arent as good as people think, hardly safe on shield. his jab is his only saving grace for moves besides smash attacks imo, frame 1 and can get tech chases from it, but thats about it.
I don't like arguing, but I feel like you are kinda putting this in your favor a bit 1. His recovery isn't that good, considering that he has three options, and 2 of them get taken away if they are used. Comparing this to ganon, it's argueably better, but ganon actually can alter his movement and his up b is actually a threat if it hits you (essentially like ness's recovery) and 2. His tilts are strong. They combo into each other at low percent and literally define little macs game play. Safe on sheild means nothing since you have a sheild breaking smash attack and can constantly spam SAFE smash attacks AND have insane grounded movement speed. I get your points though. His jab is pretty good, considering it is also insanely quick, but thats usual for a jab. His aerials are also a problem, but it doesn't really matter sense he is a ground based character. What I think you wanted him to say was "little mac with a good recovery, aerials, and insane frame data (which he already has) would be too much," which is essentially true for all characters.
@@defnotnaruto222 his recovery isnt that good, but it's at least serviceable. his main problem is just the dog shit aerials, and yeah his tilts/smashes are very strog, but not strong enough to offset his aerials imo
@@opoperaRespectfully, Little Mac's tilts are really good, think you should look up a Mac guide if you aren't sure how to benefit from landing them. Vastly offsets his aerials imo
So its like mac's down angled forward smash. That one has less damage and knock back, but does great shield damage. Used properly, it keeps a player from shielding too much, which opens up more of Mac's options.
Move hitting and not breaking shield, is still good cuz if opponent doesnt have smthn to punish it right away they are locked out of shielding as an option. With everyone and their grandma jumping in this game, marcina can swat them out of the air effectively, following the attempted shield break.
It's a "passive ability" in the sense that it can change that way your opponent plays without having to even use it. I feel like accusing a video with less than 50k views as being clickbait is needlessly hostile my guy...
@@ThrowAway_462 That's not what passive ability means 💀 And by that logic, if this video gets a million views without changing anything, SUDDENLY the thumbnail becomes clickbait retroactively? No, clickbait is clickbait even with 0 views
Lowkey one really good use of Marcina’s neutral special is planking, especially because most planking tools that they have are usually easily beaten by sheild
@@aann ah okay it was stale okay, cause I was thinking if it was the same as marth it should have started to get stronger around that % cause of the knockback which starts at 45
@@Wolfslash do you mean during the stream clip or just in general? bc if you mean in general then, the video doesn’t even mention staling, it’s mostly about how using it less makes you more likely to land a shieldbreak. though if you spam it it’ll get stale, i guess, but i didn’t add that in bc it’s not really relevant. if it’s about the stream clip, lol yea i forgot i broke his shield earlier. hard to talk and play at the same time
I actually say the exact same thing about Roadhog hook in Overwatch. In a lot of 1 v 1 situations its not the hook itself that makes it so good, its the THREAT of it. Everyone is so scared of you doing it that they'll use every ability, and you can just stand there looking at them until they have no cooldowns left 😅
Lifetime Marth and Lucina main here. Been saying this for a long time. "Shield Breaker is a great move." I always get laughed at. Finally, someone else realizes it's not just Falcon Thrust. It's similar to how I play Cloud. Charge up limit to about 80% so that the opponent doesn't want to play too aggressive and risk giving me my limit break. It doesn't REALLY matter because I will get it from attacking and the opponent has to hit me eventually, but in the moment, it makes them panic. It's like HAVING the limit already, except it "starts earlier".
While it is true that Lucina's fully-charged Shield Breaker is stronger than her forward smash, with Marth the opposite is instead the case when you take his tipper forward smash into account.
I use shield breaker as an offstage long range smash (tipper Marth) or long range laggy tilt on ground/air/platform (in the air is pretty cool ngl). Since I only play vs cpu I don't often get to condition :(
I will say ever since the start of ultimate I have a close friend who plays Marth and used shield breaker like this so to counter it to keep shield an option was to parry it was always a fun cat and mouse of either i parry and he dies off a grab or i shield break and he try to get a side b tipper (ps I play k rool)
I rarely use it but a lot of marcina players overuse it and I just get free punishes as a result, I use it only when I think I conditioned them enough for a shield break
i did something similar with dark samus's charge shot. I'd choose to never use it and people would be afraid or spam reflects so i got free hits on them.
No way he said “Falcon Punch” and “damage” in the same sentence. Falcon Punch does 35% *on a good hit* I’ve seen it go as low as 30% Less damage, knockback, and kill power than the frame perfect Knee or UpB, and yet has over 6 times the charge-up. So yes, I will keep using it.
Slightly pedantic point. While claimed as their earliest killing move, it kills about 15 percent later than fully charged tipper f-smash from Marth. Only useful between 25-35% though, as before that shield breaker does more damage and neither kill.
I main robin and they have a very similar thing with nosferatu. Everything robin does while approaching makes you want to shield. Then they hit the nosferatu and 👨🍳👌👌
With all due respect Marth's grab game is DEFINITELY not bad. It enables a lot of his frame trap nonsense and by extension works to condition shielding less much like neutral B does. Lucina's grab game is definitely less good, but still far from ass. That said other than this fire video, just had to get that off of my chest.
Average sweaty aerial-spamming dash-dancing Lucina main. You’re being a bit toxic when K.O.‘ing your opponents. In all seriousness, (as if I wasn’t serious before), shield breaker really isn’t that good. We’re playing online, not in tournaments. My opponents aren’t going to be guarding that much. Also, you’re using Shield Breaker and it’s immediately breaking your opponent’s shield, which is extremely suspicious. It’s supposed be to charged. Shield breaker in Smash WiiU/3DS was better in my opinion. Dodging doesn’t inflict so much startup and end lag. So if you don’t completely break horn opponents shield, then it’s easy to retaliate.
I did not understand the point of this video honestly, that neutral b is quite literally a specific attack that works well against shields. Not using the move doesn't make it stronger? What you're doing here is just using the neutral b as intended. It's a bit like, playing bowser and using Down B randomly to confuse the enemy. People usually do not use lucina neutral b since its end lag is a bit too high, especially since you can actually parry it... Or just any dodge? Or jump? It's a cute fun fact but nothing new. If you want some useless tech like this then there is a Mario "Combo" by doing down throw, down tilt, dash in repeat.
@@M.N.9 the point of the video was to point out that within the marth and lucina community a lot of people use this move wrong or not at all. and because i love exploring stuff in this game i wanted to make a vid trying to get ppl to optimize this move better :) wouldn’t call this useless at all
@@XyLo2517 tbh, yeah i should’ve specified that there’s a bunch of other characters with conditioner moves, but at the same time i lowkey just wanted to talk about this move without having to make an entire guide for conditioning bc i like it
![[SSBU] Jumping is Overpowered](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/BmcpWL4FEp8/mqdefault.jpg)
hey thanks for watching :)) i made this video in a day lol, random tech for every character part 3 is next! ❤
Terry solos
And it has a headshot mechanic! (For some reason) So that's fun lol
Also fun in doubles, since the chaos of 4 players has people shielding a lot
true!! i didn’t mention it because i wanted to get right into the meat of the vid but thats true, i almost always angle it up
@@aann Yeah I figured, it’s more of a fun fact/“yo the headshot sound effect played!” thing lol. Usually I just keep it straight so there’s less room for hurtbox shifting silliness causing it to whiff
i think i recall seeing a shieldbreaker miss due to some Z-axis BS lol, like the character’s head was BEHIND the hitbox. wild
Is it a headshot mechanic or must more damage when angled up? Asking for cases like kirby and jigs where their head is their body.
@@jackattackhissnack Headshot does a bit of extra damage, bot NOT any extra knockback. Kirby/Jiggly just take body shots
So TL;DR
Shield Breaker is a good conditioning tool, rather than a good move itself. Showing your opponent that you're picking up their habits will force them to adapt
As a Sephiroth player I feel like Sephiroth's neutral B is kind of a projectile version of this move. There's kind of a mind game of how long you charge the neutral B and I've just let rip gigaflairs by conditioning the opponent before.
I feel like side b down smash is also another thing similar to this
As a Marth shield break connoisseur, I respect and approve of this move breakdown
im glad 🙂 every time i make a marth/lucina video im like hmm i wonder if this is a miss or not
I hate u atcy
Atcy I hate u
UA-cam recommended this to me and I knew I would find you.
This is the same concept of characters with extremely powerful command grabs. They don't need to land the grab, they just need you to be scared of it
pretty much! in retrospect i should’ve talked a little more about how marth and lucina aren’t the only characters with built in conditioning :p
Incin main here. Very true. People don’t want to get hit by the 21%, so they jump and get hit from a mile away with fair. It’s not a true disjoint, but it extends almost the entire length of the hitbox in a single frame, so it’s hard as hell to hit him out of startup.
Alex Valle vs Bonchan is the perfect example of this, Alex as Hugo literally never went for his command grab but Bonchan’s Sagat is so terrified of it that he gives up the match
My personal favorite move that conditions the opponent the instant you throw it out is mii brawler's counter throw, which specifically works well against some jump-ins and as an air-to-air against almost anything. It might be a terrible move but you can get your opponent to play poorly solely by slapping it on your moveset, especially if you manage to style on them and get a kill off the top by buffering it out of a short hop. Either they jump less or they aren't as aggressive in the air, letting you control space really well or hit them with a raw mach punch and kill them off the top again respectively. Not to mention the fact that it has low recovery means you can just throw it out safely, and whiffing it in their close vicinity before slipping away is one of the most effective ways to condition your opponent with it in the short term.
Also worth noting that one of my best characters, bowser, has SEVERAL moves that are great for conditioning including fair, flame breath, and side b which all encourage and beat different things leading to the world's most confusing game of rock paper scissors
I don't play Lucina or Marth that much, but I definitely use shield breaker when I play them. Not necessarily to break shields, but it's basically a smash move that you can charge in the air. A lot of people seem to misjudge the range and even at a lower charge it can move you ever so slightly in the air. Also, I never see anyone utilize the fully charge for recovery, but I use to get back to the stage too
it’s a really fun move :) using it as an aerial smash is a cool concept, i do that sometimes, but sometimes it can make ppl shield on you less, and i love breaking shields lol
I picked them up when I first copped Ult and I did use the move for recovery pretty often then. I stopped doing that now for some reason
same tbh, not sure why but i rarely use it to recover now
@@aann I don't play Marcina myself but playing against them it seems to me like it's just not really that useful for recovering? Their air drift is good enough that I don't think you even gain any distance over just holding forward, meanwhile committing to charging lets me harass with projectiles or time an edgeguard for the moment they reach full charge. When caught without a jump at about stage height, directional air dodge seems to get them close enough to at least have a chance to recover from pretty dang far away, whereas Shield Breaker has too much charge time and too much endlag to pull it off from the same position.
Like, it always seemed to be an option that Marcina players pick up early on because it looks like a movement tech but they eventually realize doesn't actually help them.
@@user-jw2it4qf2r I don’t think it’s that. I think it’s as your fundies improve using shield breaker in general becomes more niche. Playing other characters as well, neutral b isn’t a very common recovery option, which means that in accordance with your muscle memory the option fades into obscurity. But even then Shield breaker offstage is fine, especially being used early in the recovery since no one is going to willingly overextend to even try to catch you in most positions where it’d be useful unless they both read it and have an option that can actually call it out. Especially because the swiftness of Marcina’s recovery in general would condition most matchups to not commit to edgeguards against them. But this isn’t me saying it should be gone for often, it should be kept as a mix up still
"This move gets better when you don't use it? Fuck's he talkin about? It's gotta be Shield Breaker."
0:01
"I FUCKIN KNEW IT!"
@@DreamJMan I LOVE THIS MOVE LETS GOOOOOO
Exact same thinking on my side too
Counter can work like that too, in a way
i really wish we saw more counters being used in bracket
My favorite part was when Lucina said, it's Lucining time and Lucina'd all over the enemy's shield.
TIME TO LUCINA
I’m a samus main. And I like to play marth on the side a little. I noticed this has the same mix up potential as charge shot in a lot of circumstances.
The turn around and the awkward timings really helps these characters take up space that their opponents need to respect.
Shielding against well timed Marth and lucina options is such a natural and correct response that it just becomes a natural poking tool.
It's so wild hearing about Marth's grab game being complete ass because I started _really_ playing Smash on Melee.
I like to use it during those times when everyone is at stupidly high percents where I REALLY don't want to be close to the opponent. Opponents tend to be caught off guard by how fast it comes out and get picked off by it.
Lol I’m a wifi demon for a seph in my area. He has a habit of charging flare in the air when drifting down back to ledge and I guess most ppl respect it. I play aegis so I can disregard it and can usually get a kill off of outplaying him since the move is kinda ass
i’ve been watching a lot of ultimate videos despite not having played it in a long time and informational yet entertaining videos like these are super fun to watch and make a game i would’ve otherwise not engaged with way more appealing to me! good vid man, keep it up :)
@@sumanthmoole hey im so glad you enjoyed the vid :)) more to come!
Just like Fox's blaster and shine are really just passives that force his opponent to fear both camping and zoning (not the same thing, though they're often seen together).
Exactly what I was thinking. Laser makes it so he almost never has to approach, then he can punish your approach. Even if you never use it, a smart opponent will know you can, so they have to play accordingly.
Just about any character with a reflector, really.
Or, not a reflector specifically, but you feel like an absolute dunce when you heal Ness for 30% after how hard it was to charge up that projectile while dodging PK Fire.
Or never mind eating an Oil Panic, in which case you're a moron times three.
Pull those sorts of moves once to remind your opponent you're not afraid to use it, and suddenly they'll be afraid to use theirs~
2:20 Melee Marth:
(And I don't mean this only because of his grab range, but because his throws are crazy).
Love the video! Shieldbreaker is also very versatile and is unreactable, which makes it way more deadly than other shieldbreak moves
2:54 "si desea salir del modo ciego..." DUDE I ALMOST SPILLED MY BOBA TEA XDDD
Very interesting and chill video!
After thinking about it, another smash character with a similar (but maybe not as pronounced hidden ability) is Meta Knight’s Mach Tornado.
The standard ladder or bridge combo finisher for Meta Knight is Shuttle Loop, back air or neutral air, and often times opponents will be DI-ing or looking for a window to dodge out of the combo before they get to the blast zone.
Mach tornado is slightly slower and harder to use than most other options, but what it can do is easily catch baited air dodges, successfully knock out an opponent thanks to its higher launching power and safely bring Meta Knight back to stage.
It’s a powerful punish tool for opponents dodging into stage, but rarely used since… good MK’s are hard to come by (I don’t even play the game anymore; I stink at MK) and its use case is even rarer than Lucina’s shield breaker. Still interesting food to chew on though 🤔
2:55 "Si deseas salir del modo ciego" I loved to hear that spanish meme 😂
I haven't played smash ultimate in about a year or so and this video popped up in my recommended. I really love this mind set of "passives", it makes things easier to understand and puts a lot of things into perspective. I get that you can also say "conditioning" but this video feels really refreshing. Honestly, I might just pick up smash ultimate again because of this vid
also for such a banger video, sorting this comment section by new is depressing to see.
hey im glad you enjoyed!! also wtf the comment section shouldn’t be sorted by new one sec
The fact you use Chrom as an example for Lucina just feel right.
I really like playing Lucina, she was my second main, so I really like use the shield breaker everytime I see my opponent use shield a lot.
i was expecting this to be literal, like the move builds up power the longer u go without using it
When reading the title I thought it was going to be something like R.O.B neutral-b but more obscure, but I see watchchu mean.
Shield Breaking with this move is like hitting a command grab super with 0 frame startup post super flash. It never gets old.
One of the ultimate changes I really liked was changing this move that the shield damage doesn't scale with the charge anymore, but always deals half shield until it's full. This makes it really a lot more versatile than it was before.
Thank you on getting to the point right away
Really good entertaining, high quality and informative video. Very good.
Glad you enjoyed it! :)) more to come
After playing Smash Ultimate a lot I came to appreciate the simple but complete tools that Lucina brings in the game. It has a way to contest with many things, specially universal defensive options.
Lucina's aerials and tilts are some of the best in the game, at least as a complete kit. Raw hits lose against shields, she doesn't have a great grab game but as you mention, shieldbreaker makes it a lot more scary and sometimes it can be simply better than having a killthrow (because shieldbreaker or fully charged F-smash can kill earlier). If your opponent decides simply to spot-dodge, her side-B nullifies that option completely, your enemy will always endure the 3rd and 4th hit, not to mention it can be a bit tricky to punish if mixed when attacking shields with it.
And she conditions her opponent to shield and spot-dodge less, then Lucina doesn't have to worry about her aerials and tilts failing to hit that much.
Its like castigate the enemies of the godhead in Lancer, its not about the move's inherent utility but its about how much of a threat it is
It actually functions with shield in a very similar way to reflectors with projectiles. As a Mewtwo main, facing an opponent with a reflector means I have to be way more careful with my Shadow Ball, making it so even if said reflectors actually never gets used, it still has an considerable impact on the game
Shield breaker is a conditioner
Because of its ability to break shields after one hit, you condition rolls, jumps, and attacks out of shield because holding shield risks a broken shield
Great vid, need more simple breakdowns like this! :)
Glad you liked it! i love going into individual moves
@@aann can't wait for the next one!
These Lucina spikes in the background are filling me with joy
Thank you for the info! This is also very useful for us kirby players
Glad it was helpful! i better not see you get your shield popped anymore 🤔
My personal favorite move that conditions the opponent the instant you throw it out is mii brawler's counter throw, which specifically works well against some jump-ins and as an air-to-air against almost anything. It might be a terrible move but you can get your opponent to play poorly solely by slapping it on your moveset, especially if you manage to style on them and get a kill off the top by buffering it out of a short hop. Either they jump less or they aren't as aggressive in the air, letting you control space really well or hit them with a raw mach punch and kill them off the top _again_ respectively. Not to mention the fact that it has low recovery means you can just throw it out safely, and whiffing it in their close vicinity before slipping away is one of the most effective ways to condition your opponent with it in the short term.
the one thing i disagree with is that "little mac with a good recovery would be too much" his recovery is already not really as bad as people think, it's really just his aerials being almost entirely useless aside from niche uses, his ground moves really not even being that strong, besides his smash attacks (your smash attacks being very good is NOT enough to offset all of your other moves being kinda ok or trash and useless) his tilts arent as good as people think, hardly safe on shield. his jab is his only saving grace for moves besides smash attacks imo, frame 1 and can get tech chases from it, but thats about it.
I don't like arguing, but I feel like you are kinda putting this in your favor a bit
1. His recovery isn't that good, considering that he has three options, and 2 of them get taken away if they are used. Comparing this to ganon, it's argueably better, but ganon actually can alter his movement and his up b is actually a threat if it hits you (essentially like ness's recovery)
and
2. His tilts are strong. They combo into each other at low percent and literally define little macs game play. Safe on sheild means nothing since you have a sheild breaking smash attack and can constantly spam SAFE smash attacks AND have insane grounded movement speed.
I get your points though. His jab is pretty good, considering it is also insanely quick, but thats usual for a jab. His aerials are also a problem, but it doesn't really matter sense he is a ground based character. What I think you wanted him to say was "little mac with a good recovery, aerials, and insane frame data (which he already has) would be too much," which is essentially true for all characters.
@@defnotnaruto222 his recovery isnt that good, but it's at least serviceable. his main problem is just the dog shit aerials, and yeah his tilts/smashes are very strog, but not strong enough to offset his aerials imo
@@opoperaRespectfully, Little Mac's tilts are really good, think you should look up a Mac guide if you aren't sure how to benefit from landing them. Vastly offsets his aerials imo
@@TheResidence.mp4 no im not denying that his tilts are bad, by any mean. he just doesnt have fast ENOUGH normals to combo with.
I love ledgedrop into shield breaker for a really cheeky ledge option
So its like mac's down angled forward smash. That one has less damage and knock back, but does great shield damage. Used properly, it keeps a player from shielding too much, which opens up more of Mac's options.
Move hitting and not breaking shield, is still good cuz if opponent doesnt have smthn to punish it right away they are locked out of shielding as an option. With everyone and their grandma jumping in this game, marcina can swat them out of the air effectively, following the attempted shield break.
it's big brain time 🧠🧠 amazing insights, thanks g
heyy im glad you enjoyed 🤓🤓
I feel like calling a good conditioning move a "passive ability" is a bit click-baity my guy...
It's a "passive ability" in the sense that it can change that way your opponent plays without having to even use it. I feel like accusing a video with less than 50k views as being clickbait is needlessly hostile my guy...
@@ThrowAway_462agreed
@@ThrowAway_462 That's not what passive ability means 💀
And by that logic, if this video gets a million views without changing anything, SUDDENLY the thumbnail becomes clickbait retroactively? No, clickbait is clickbait even with 0 views
yeah sure, but who cares?
@@hyphen8d725Me lol
Your videos are so clean man, good stuff
Appreciate it bam 🫶🏼
Shieldbreaker isn't always there but the threat of Shieldbreaker is always there.
Lowkey one really good use of Marcina’s neutral special is planking, especially because most planking tools that they have are usually easily beaten by sheild
Lvl 9 CPUs pretty much always just parry the Shield Breaker though :/
If you’re at the too right or top left of the screen it’s a recovery option
This exact concept was explored in Hajime no Ippo
I simply chad parry it on reaction
3:33 fully charged shield breaker didn't kill meta knight at 51% near ledge?? Interesting
@@Kj-so7zd good observation! it normally would, but the move was stale because i had used it to break his shield like 45 seconds before that clip
@@aann ah okay it was stale okay, cause I was thinking if it was the same as marth it should have started to get stronger around that % cause of the knockback which starts at 45
yea this meta knight let me break his shield a bunch so it got stale because I used neutral B as the shield breakpunish :p
I was gonna say this too, he should have pushed meta knight closer to the ledge and then went for it, that may have killed
Might have to play Lucina more because I love this move
Ah yes mental stack. What a great “passive”
dude discovers move staling in 2024
@@Wolfslash do you mean during the stream clip or just in general? bc if you mean in general then, the video doesn’t even mention staling, it’s mostly about how using it less makes you more likely to land a shieldbreak. though if you spam it it’ll get stale, i guess, but i didn’t add that in bc it’s not really relevant.
if it’s about the stream clip, lol yea i forgot i broke his shield earlier. hard to talk and play at the same time
I actually say the exact same thing about Roadhog hook in Overwatch. In a lot of 1 v 1 situations its not the hook itself that makes it so good, its the THREAT of it. Everyone is so scared of you doing it that they'll use every ability, and you can just stand there looking at them until they have no cooldowns left 😅
Lifetime Marth and Lucina main here. Been saying this for a long time. "Shield Breaker is a great move." I always get laughed at. Finally, someone else realizes it's not just Falcon Thrust.
It's similar to how I play Cloud. Charge up limit to about 80% so that the opponent doesn't want to play too aggressive and risk giving me my limit break. It doesn't REALLY matter because I will get it from attacking and the opponent has to hit me eventually, but in the moment, it makes them panic. It's like HAVING the limit already, except it "starts earlier".
Baby's first time learning what conditioning is
@@landop3320 xd i know it’s conditioning i just didn’t want this to be a conditioning guide bc thats its own thing
While it is true that Lucina's fully-charged Shield Breaker is stronger than her forward smash, with Marth the opposite is instead the case when you take his tipper forward smash into account.
BEEEEN KNOWING THIS BROOOOOO This move is so busted Idk why people don't use it more
I always forget to use the sheild breaker.
Thanks for the tip
I use shield breaker as an offstage long range smash (tipper Marth) or long range laggy tilt on ground/air/platform (in the air is pretty cool ngl).
Since I only play vs cpu I don't often get to condition :(
I think Marth tipper f smash actually kills earlier than shield breaker.
My friends shield a lot. Maybe too much. Gonna have to pick up Lucina again...
I will say ever since the start of ultimate I have a close friend who plays Marth and used shield breaker like this so to counter it to keep shield an option was to parry it was always a fun cat and mouse of either i parry and he dies off a grab or i shield break and he try to get a side b tipper (ps I play k rool)
Marth neutral b can 2 frame or hit people hanging on ledge and even the start up of JUMP GET UP (lost a marth ditto to this lmao)
I rarely use it but a lot of marcina players overuse it and I just get free punishes as a result, I use it only when I think I conditioned them enough for a shield break
Me when i break a shield
Nice concise no bs video
Appreciate it! sorry for the late reply lol, but yea i like to get right into the main stuff
i did something similar with dark samus's charge shot. I'd choose to never use it and people would be afraid or spam reflects so i got free hits on them.
You can say this about any powerful risky move
not really, falcon punch doesn’t condition anything and you’ll never land it unless you’re messing around… shield breaker is like, a real move
i love that move too but i wanted to see Marth gameplay :,p
No way he said “Falcon Punch” and “damage” in the same sentence.
Falcon Punch does 35% *on a good hit*
I’ve seen it go as low as 30%
Less damage, knockback, and kill power than the frame perfect Knee or UpB, and yet has over 6 times the charge-up.
So yes, I will keep using it.
Slightly pedantic point. While claimed as their earliest killing move, it kills about 15 percent later than fully charged tipper f-smash from Marth. Only useful between 25-35% though, as before that shield breaker does more damage and neither kill.
Shield breaker is also safe on shield when spaced, even if it doesn't break shield, which is fun.
Just parry the shield breaks
I main robin and they have a very similar thing with nosferatu. Everything robin does while approaching makes you want to shield. Then they hit the nosferatu and 👨🍳👌👌
Spordoding
You know ass a mii main fighting lucina is like seeing dlc cause mii sword fighter has almost no range compared to that
bubble popper go brrrre
BUBBLE POPPER GO SCREEEEEECH 🅿️🅾️🅿️
Can you do something with Luigi next
With all due respect Marth's grab game is DEFINITELY not bad. It enables a lot of his frame trap nonsense and by extension works to condition shielding less much like neutral B does. Lucina's grab game is definitely less good, but still far from ass.
That said other than this fire video, just had to get that off of my chest.
You might be as big a fan of Kichijoji 199x as I am
LETS GOOOO KICHIJOJI
Hey... I've played against you before!
@@TsunamiWoF me?
@@legionssb Yeah, you're on my friend list 🤣
@TsunamiWoF lol no way man, what's your tag for your switch account?
Not the marcina 😂
thats how they segregate us 😭
persona music nice
ALWAYS ‼️
No. Do not give people pointers against Young Link. We don’t need to get bodied even more bro 😭
SI DESEA SALIR DEL MODO CIEGO, HAGA CLICK EN LA 🗣🗣🗣🔥🔥🔥
but why not just parry? :)
your profile picture freaks me out please stop flashing it on screen its scary
i think its cute :c
Link niño 🗣🔥🔥
jovencito link 🤓🇪🇸
You should do a video on Wii fit
i could! what about wii fit would you like to see?
@@aann I would love to see more about the soccer ball tech and stuff that you can do with that
Your pfp terrifies me, great video, liked and subscribed, please don't come for me
Average sweaty aerial-spamming dash-dancing Lucina main. You’re being a bit toxic when K.O.‘ing your opponents.
In all seriousness, (as if I wasn’t serious before), shield breaker really isn’t that good. We’re playing online, not in tournaments. My opponents aren’t going to be guarding that much.
Also, you’re using Shield Breaker and it’s immediately breaking your opponent’s shield, which is extremely suspicious. It’s supposed be to charged.
Shield breaker in Smash WiiU/3DS was better in my opinion. Dodging doesn’t inflict so much startup and end lag. So if you don’t completely break horn opponents shield, then it’s easy to retaliate.
@@AGZhark how was i toxic bro 😭 also what do you mean? the shield breaker has always been able to break damaged shields uncharged :)
What are you yapping about lmao
@@normieandyy Are you done, kid.
@@AGZhark 🤓🤓🤓
@@normieandyy 2024 is nearly over. If you’re still using “yapping,” and “🤓” to insult another person then that says a lot about you.
I did not understand the point of this video honestly, that neutral b is quite literally a specific attack that works well against shields.
Not using the move doesn't make it stronger?
What you're doing here is just using the neutral b as intended. It's a bit like, playing bowser and using Down B randomly to confuse the enemy.
People usually do not use lucina neutral b since its end lag is a bit too high, especially since you can actually parry it... Or just any dodge? Or jump?
It's a cute fun fact but nothing new.
If you want some useless tech like this then there is a Mario "Combo" by doing down throw, down tilt, dash in repeat.
@@M.N.9 the point of the video was to point out that within the marth and lucina community a lot of people use this move wrong or not at all. and because i love exploring stuff in this game i wanted to make a vid trying to get ppl to optimize this move better :) wouldn’t call this useless at all
This entire video is just conditioning. Just make a conditioning tutorial bro…
@@XyLo2517 tbh, yeah i should’ve specified that there’s a bunch of other characters with conditioner moves, but at the same time i lowkey just wanted to talk about this move without having to make an entire guide for conditioning bc i like it
🦍🦍🦍🦍🦍🦍🦍