2011 6.7 powerstroke with a very strange valve train problem. The cylinder head was removed with the cab on. Bad lifter, rocker arm assemblies and push rods.
I just bought a truck with this problem. The 6.7 has 4 valves per cylinder, and the design uses 4 different length rocker arms on each cylinder. The longest rocker arm, because it has more leverage, wears out the pivot and the rocker arm gradually goes sideways and works it's way to the edge of the valve and then falls off. On bank one of this engine 3 long rockers on 3 separate cylinders have come off the valve and the 4th one is about to. I think the one that came off first the lifter has popped up above the cam, I can get a bore scope down there and see the lifter is sideways but can't really tell if the cam is damaged, the head is going to have to come off. It looks like this truck hasn't had enough oil changes, could be part of the problem.
Just pulled mine apart today. Got both heads off. Found 2 lifters broken. The roller rocker is missing the wheel completely. Haven't checked the cam yet. Broken plastic guide. Not sure what caused it but man this is a terrible design flaw. My bottom end is new less than 3k on it. Now this happens. Did yours end up needing a cam?
Ha!! I've got the exact same issue on an '11 in the shop today! Pulled it in cyl 1 contribution code running smooth though with no issue when looking at balance rates. Had been intermittent since mode 6 data did indeed indicate misfires at cyl 1. Figuring I'd try an injector and send it, hold down bolt broke. Remove intake and low and behold 3 push rods knocked out of rocker arms. Cyl 1 rods looked exactly as yours did, with one lifter having rotated in the bore and rod wedged against the one next to it. Lifter retainer broken. One missing tappet. I haven't removed the head but I'm hoping the cam wasn't damaged. I thought maybe the lifter guide was incorrectly installed at some point and broke, causing the lifter to rotate. Or maybe as you stated the rocker arms failed, maybe due to plugged oiling rail? The rocker arms were quite dry when I removed them. I'll have a look at the rail and pressurized it, and see also if the arms have the same wear yours did. Thanks for the video!
@@gt40f Cam was damaged. Funny enough i ran into another one couple months ago. Again, cam damaged. Both turned out to be rebuildable cores though at least. I'm actually a diesel tech for Ford so if you have any questions, don't hesitate. Cheers
@@albundy9706 Thanks for the reply. So the blocks were undamaged? Rebuildable as in a bore and oversized Pistons? I was hoping to get away with just the top end overhaul, it has 200 k, maybe I should just tear it completely down and see. I'm going to try to do a compression check and or a leak down first. These engines have some amazing engineering but I think that long rocker arm is a failure point. I wonder if the oil spray bar is clogging if the oil is not changed enough. I've seen oil spray bars mess up before, the Datsun 240Z used to have that problem. Also putting EGR on a diesel it's getting a lot of soot into the intake I wonder if that's getting into the oil?
@@gt40f New cam, lifters, rings, bearings, front cover, rocker arms, push rods, hone, and reseal. In both cases, the oiling rails seemed to be ok. You'll have to get the heads off and inspect the cam. If the lifter rotated, it's likely to need replacement. Ford put a lot into this engine, after the issues with international. You can really tell by the improvements what they learned. Nothing is invincible though of course. Biggest problems I've found were main bearings on the earlier builds. That and egr cooler design prior to 2015. The cooler runs too cold on the secondary cooling system so they ran only the primary system through it in 2015. Bearing material was also updated but still tangless. I don't believe I've ever run into bearing issues on late '12+ engines. Emissions on diesels in general are problematic.
Man I just purchased a 2012 cylinder 1 and 8 contribution codes with a miss fire mind doesn't smoke but smells rich in engine bay and don't smooth out I hope it's not valve issue with mine😬
@@cincydieselrepair6893 sure thing I will update u when I get to it did you do any compression test on it prior to pulling it apart are you just pulled it thanks for reply
@@cincydieselrepair6893 I got you mine I'm unsure new to diesels but it sounds fine also thar injector hold down on 2011 to 2012 snap ford put out technical service bulletin I hope mine does now the look shiny but that doesn't mean anything we will see I guess I better park it where I want it to sit before I start
I have a 2014 6.7 that was overfilled with oil. Ran for a second, Killed it. Then try to start it again and it would not start. Drained 6 quarts of oil out of it and it ran bad. cylinder # 8 contribution code popped up. Cleaned the intake, changed injector # 8 and have a noise tapping noise from the passenger side only when i will step on it Not in idle. Bent push rod? Paid out my ass to change injector and problem not fixed.
My 6.7 started tapping. Sounded like a fuel knock. All 8 mechanics who saw it at different shops agreed that it may go away with new injectors. It has been six years of pulling a 28k trailer and just got very loud about 2 weeks ago. Consistent noise and in time with the camshaft. Even my oil sample came back good with a recommendation to extend my 5k interval haha! I am going nuts. One mechanic had it two days and told me it would be the perfect truck if I was deaf, because nothing shows up on power balance or contribution, even in enhanced mode. Zero codes, ever. Any ideas?
I am working on a 2018 f250 with the exact same problem you are describing. 2 other mechanics didnt want to touch it because it wasn't showing codes for contribution or misfires and it was running great. But you could clearly hear a thumping noise coming from the intake. Even louder if you remove the air filter cover. It was clear to me that a valve or 2 weren't opening or closing so I just finished taking it apart and sure enough, rocker arms and push rods out of place. Let me know if you ever figured yours out please
I have a 2012 f250. It starts and idles a little rough and shakes, and shuts off instantly when you put it in gear. Mechanic says to change the engine, he quoted me 11k. Let me know if you can listen to it or if that sounds about right
Assuming you already deal with this, but, I would never replace the engine unless they can articulate what exactly failed, and why replacing the engine is better than repairing it., I guess mileage would matter, if your over 300k maybe, under 150k I’d need to see damage, then if they are recommending a remanufactured engine, or a new ford short block?, long block? Injectors? I feel a short block isn’t money well spent, because you’ll most likely have top end issues well before getting your money out of the new bottom end, may be best option at that point to find a complete engine out of a low mileage truck.. but way to many questions to say, it’s running rough just replace the engine.. I had my local Tasca truck center try the exact same thing with me, because I had a exhaust leak on my 6.0 turbo, when I told them I just had the heads off, and studded it, and replaced everything from head gaskets up, I just struggled to get y pipe sealed to turbo cab on, they said, oh we will go run the test another way, and oh no longer needed an engine, but I did need a turbo, I then replied I just had the turbo out, and cleaned the unison ring and turbo looked good, they then let it sit two months, sealed the y pipe and truck runs great to this day..
i have 2012 same issued o cyl 3th . opened rocker arms but not head yet. is there possibility to change just lifters without removing the head? my plastic guide is broken too
Yep and ford knows about it. They change their rocker arms a few times. No recall though even though the defective parts are on many years not just earliy models by the time theu caught it. It will fail a matter of when not if with that part unfortunately its usually after warranty. Im at 120k and on my second engine now thanks to Ford. Very easy to prove every one will fail eventually from this. Rocker get wiggle room walks off center of valve stem push rod comes out allows lifter to break engine grenades. Absolute Horse shit. @ford
I just bought a truck with this problem. The 6.7 has 4 valves per cylinder, and the design uses 4 different length rocker arms on each cylinder. The longest rocker arm, because it has more leverage, wears out the pivot and the rocker arm gradually goes sideways and works it's way to the edge of the valve and then falls off. On bank one of this engine 3 long rockers on 3 separate cylinders have come off the valve and the 4th one is about to. I think the one that came off first the lifter has popped up above the cam, I can get a bore scope down there and see the lifter is sideways but can't really tell if the cam is damaged, the head is going to have to come off. It looks like this truck hasn't had enough oil changes, could be part of the problem.
Just pulled mine apart today. Got both heads off. Found 2 lifters broken. The roller rocker is missing the wheel completely. Haven't checked the cam yet. Broken plastic guide. Not sure what caused it but man this is a terrible design flaw. My bottom end is new less than 3k on it. Now this happens. Did yours end up needing a cam?
cool video, looking forward to the second part
Ha!! I've got the exact same issue on an '11 in the shop today! Pulled it in cyl 1 contribution code running smooth though with no issue when looking at balance rates. Had been intermittent since mode 6 data did indeed indicate misfires at cyl 1. Figuring I'd try an injector and send it, hold down bolt broke. Remove intake and low and behold 3 push rods knocked out of rocker arms. Cyl 1 rods looked exactly as yours did, with one lifter having rotated in the bore and rod wedged against the one next to it. Lifter retainer broken. One missing tappet. I haven't removed the head but I'm hoping the cam wasn't damaged. I thought maybe the lifter guide was incorrectly installed at some point and broke, causing the lifter to rotate. Or maybe as you stated the rocker arms failed, maybe due to plugged oiling rail? The rocker arms were quite dry when I removed them. I'll have a look at the rail and pressurized it, and see also if the arms have the same wear yours did. Thanks for the video!
What did you find when you removed the head?
@@gt40f Cam was damaged. Funny enough i ran into another one couple months ago. Again, cam damaged. Both turned out to be rebuildable cores though at least. I'm actually a diesel tech for Ford so if you have any questions, don't hesitate. Cheers
@@albundy9706 Thanks for the reply. So the blocks were undamaged? Rebuildable as in a bore and oversized Pistons? I was hoping to get away with just the top end overhaul, it has 200 k, maybe I should just tear it completely down and see. I'm going to try to do a compression check and or a leak down first. These engines have some amazing engineering but I think that long rocker arm is a failure point. I wonder if the oil spray bar is clogging if the oil is not changed enough. I've seen oil spray bars mess up before, the Datsun 240Z used to have that problem. Also putting EGR on a diesel it's getting a lot of soot into the intake I wonder if that's getting into the oil?
@@gt40f New cam, lifters, rings, bearings, front cover, rocker arms, push rods, hone, and reseal. In both cases, the oiling rails seemed to be ok.
You'll have to get the heads off and inspect the cam. If the lifter rotated, it's likely to need replacement.
Ford put a lot into this engine, after the issues with international. You can really tell by the improvements what they learned. Nothing is invincible though of course. Biggest problems I've found were main bearings on the earlier builds. That and egr cooler design prior to 2015. The cooler runs too cold on the secondary cooling system so they ran only the primary system through it in 2015. Bearing material was also updated but still tangless. I don't believe I've ever run into bearing issues on late '12+ engines.
Emissions on diesels in general are problematic.
Great video
I'm dealing with the same issue I plan on putting all new valve train inside the truck how was rhe truck ben after the repair
Man I just purchased a 2012 cylinder 1 and 8 contribution codes with a miss fire mind doesn't smoke but smells rich in engine bay and don't smooth out I hope it's not valve issue with mine😬
You will have to let me know. I have seen the valves crack but I haven't seen the whole valve train get trashed until this truck
@@cincydieselrepair6893 sure thing I will update u when I get to it did you do any compression test on it prior to pulling it apart are you just pulled it thanks for reply
@@Madisonsemien9857 I could just tell by the sound of the engine there was a major valve train issue
@@cincydieselrepair6893 I got you mine I'm unsure new to diesels but it sounds fine also thar injector hold down on 2011 to 2012 snap ford put out technical service bulletin I hope mine does now the look shiny but that doesn't mean anything we will see I guess I better park it where I want it to sit before I start
I have a 2014 6.7 that was overfilled with oil. Ran for a second, Killed it. Then try to start it again and it would not start. Drained 6 quarts of oil out of it and it ran bad. cylinder # 8 contribution code popped up. Cleaned the intake, changed injector # 8 and have a noise tapping noise from the passenger side only when i will step on it Not in idle. Bent push rod? Paid out my ass to change injector and problem not fixed.
I would definitely pull that valve cover and check the valve train on number 8. It could be a bridge that slipped off the valves.
My 6.7 started tapping. Sounded like a fuel knock. All 8 mechanics who saw it at different shops agreed that it may go away with new injectors. It has been six years of pulling a 28k trailer and just got very loud about 2 weeks ago. Consistent noise and in time with the camshaft. Even my oil sample came back good with a recommendation to extend my 5k interval haha! I am going nuts. One mechanic had it two days and told me it would be the perfect truck if I was deaf, because nothing shows up on power balance or contribution, even in enhanced mode. Zero codes, ever. Any ideas?
I've got the same thing going on either mine
I am working on a 2018 f250 with the exact same problem you are describing. 2 other mechanics didnt want to touch it because it wasn't showing codes for contribution or misfires and it was running great. But you could clearly hear a thumping noise coming from the intake. Even louder if you remove the air filter cover. It was clear to me that a valve or 2 weren't opening or closing so I just finished taking it apart and sure enough, rocker arms and push rods out of place. Let me know if you ever figured yours out please
I have a 2012 f250. It starts and idles a little rough and shakes, and shuts off instantly when you put it in gear. Mechanic says to change the engine, he quoted me 11k. Let me know if you can listen to it or if that sounds about right
Assuming you already deal with this, but, I would never replace the engine unless they can articulate what exactly failed, and why replacing the engine is better than repairing it., I guess mileage would matter, if your over 300k maybe, under 150k I’d need to see damage, then if they are recommending a remanufactured engine, or a new ford short block?, long block? Injectors? I feel a short block isn’t money well spent, because you’ll most likely have top end issues well before getting your money out of the new bottom end, may be best option at that point to find a complete engine out of a low mileage truck.. but way to many questions to say, it’s running rough just replace the engine.. I had my local Tasca truck center try the exact same thing with me, because I had a exhaust leak on my 6.0 turbo, when I told them I just had the heads off, and studded it, and replaced everything from head gaskets up, I just struggled to get y pipe sealed to turbo cab on, they said, oh we will go run the test another way, and oh no longer needed an engine, but I did need a turbo, I then replied I just had the turbo out, and cleaned the unison ring and turbo looked good, they then let it sit two months, sealed the y pipe and truck runs great to this day..
i have 2012 same issued o cyl 3th . opened rocker arms but not head yet. is there possibility to change just lifters without removing the head? my plastic guide is broken too
No unfortunately you have to remove the head
@@cincydieselrepair6893 thanks . Do you buy mine asis ? Dually , 4 doors
Yep and ford knows about it. They change their rocker arms a few times. No recall though even though the defective parts are on many years not just earliy models by the time theu caught it. It will fail a matter of when not if with that part unfortunately its usually after warranty. Im at 120k and on my second engine now thanks to Ford. Very easy to prove every one will fail eventually from this. Rocker get wiggle room walks off center of valve stem push rod comes out allows lifter to break engine grenades. Absolute Horse shit. @ford
Hi where are you located I would like you to check out my truck
What was the outcome?
I repaired the truck and put around 250 miles on it with no issues.
cummins swap it