You should probably upload this on the main channel, this is a very important topic that needs to be discussed to tone down the toxicity in the community.
This would be great, but I don't think that Doug should make it. There might be other Yugitubers whose relationship to their fans might be better for this purpose.
Doug is one of the most wholesome and intelligent yugitubers out there. It's sad to see people complain about how much he "sucks" when he's literally just trying to entertain his audience.
I think many people don't even realize that because he went through this really obnoxious period of trying to grow his channel to the hypercasual audience. I really liked reading his tcgplayer articles back in the day but him uploading Egyptian God decklists or video essays on why Mountain isn't seeing play turned me away.
It's funny that you say that, because the last couple of months, whenever one of these "Who is you favorite Yugituber"-polls come up, I've only heard people complain about Doug how eg. toxic he is. Either something must've changed this year or all the people are crazy. (Not insinuating, that I find him toxic btw)
@Struggler Yeah I'm not sure what Ryan is talking about. The reason why years back he used to be called toxic by the community was because of how much he hated casual dueling or the concept of it. He was all meta this, meta that. He was hardcore into just playing competitively and found the idea of casual, dumb or something. He mellowed out to where he is today now like around 2020 and stopped being so obnoxious about competitive dueling over anything else. Dzeeff's obnoxious period was back then, not today's time.
I thought the same thing when the first season of Prog was coming out: a lot of fans are just too comfortable shitting on many of you without realizing that you are all friends. If you banter between each other is because you're all both friends and business partners. When randos barge in it's most of the time not banter, it's just being an asshole.
@bastardrian I don't know what to tell you, but if they legitimately think they get that privilege just for watching videos and speaking in chat, they might as well go seek a therapist. *Now.*
Well, part of the argument is that if they are gonna be able to make a living off of and become relatively famous then they should be able to deal with hate. That is part of the job. Not to say we couldn't nurture a much better environment (and we should.) But off of the Progression Series Nhym probably became one of if not the best known Yugioh content creators while getting a big enough boost in his income he feels okay quitting his job at the card shop. Long hours editing = the pay and having no boss, the hate = fame and having no boss to change responsibility to. Mind you he put in effort to achieve said fame (the spotlight wasn't foisted upon him) the hate is a side-effect.
In prog, MBT and Farfa have conditioned their viewers that is fine to trash others. Considering they have gotten paid to be toxic. Yugi-tubers need to learn how to use their influence for good instead of back pedaling when the toxicity that they enabled hits them back
Doug's literally been playing this game longer than some of y'all have even been alive. He's in the Mount Rushmore of Yugi-tuber's for sure. Keep your head up king.
People definitely don't give Doug the benefit of the doubt. Something like Fabled isn't god, but it's hilarious when it wins. There's an old MTG clip of LSV throwing a game he's winning in order to see the MTGO client handle an infinite loop. The reaction from everyone is basically just "LMAO best 5/3 match."
@@grimdeth2197 Basically every player makes constant little mistakes throughout matches. Especially when they are using cards they have never seen before the day of use.
Watching the Twitter thread a few minutes ago had me pondering why I enjoy MBT's content regardless of the format, game or channel. And this is such a good example. Even though he portrays himself as just some card playing asshole when he's with his friends or just for content (meant in the best possible way as a card playing asshole myself), he also has eloquent commentary on the history of the games he loves with genuine enthusiasm, and THIS! The ability to be self aware and have real, knowledgeable insights into culture. Be it around the game, or often real world problems
I honestly think Yugitube would be way less openly progressive without MBT. I remember donating to Farfa years ago after he said something about how building a wall is crazy &/or racist. Never heard a peep about his politics otherwise except when he chats with MBT. Basically the same with Doug, and outside of economic stuff even Nhym. Hardleg is definitely pretty open about it as well but it shines through with MBT (and hell, he and RJ start a show every week talking about Climate Change.) And the best part is he can start out joking about how Strike Ninja is an ethno-nationalist or he wants to suck Danny off. But then transition into a fully thought out statement about how the u.s. healthcare system fails to serve [insert niche group] like he read a textbook on the topic.
@@haruhirogrimgar6047 I fail to see how a wall in and of itself is racist, but it is kinda over the top, so I can understand people calling it crazy. As a republican, I just want a secure border. I don't like seeing people in cages anymore than anyone else, but unless you just wanna build a bunch of cheap apartments to detain them in or some shit (which I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to; it'd cost a fair amount of tax dollars, but its better than sticking them in cages and separating them from their families), that's not going to change. Regardless of what we end up doing about that, i don't think it eliminates the need for a strong border either. You can't just let undocumented people come into the country through the US/Mexico border when there's fucking cartels and shit constantly trying to get in and out, its a security hazard. Open boarders in that situation just expedites that problem, and you'd be doing a shit ton of harm.
@@four-en-tee A wall would do absolutely nothing to curb illegal immigration, particularly cartels. Even now the majority of illegal immigrants here are people who are overstaying on their Visa's. Illegal immigration isn't as big of an issue as people make it out to be. There are more issues with our immigration system itself. Horribly constraining, takes way too long to handle, ends up with our courts and public defenders being unable to keep up, all while the facilities to handle people who haven't even had the ability to apply for refugee status are so horrid the U.N. classified them as internment camps that break human rights violations. All the while we do less than the bare minimum to try to build mexico up so they don't have all these people trying to immigrate. A substantive reform bill is needed but it seems like half the country (who have never even visited a border town/city) would start a civil war if it didn't just ban immigration from the south.
@@haruhirogrimgar6047 like yeah. it's so weird. MBT has done so much for the community, but on the other hand he's been incredibly toxic for very petty reasons otherwise. I can't bring myself to hate him, I just wish he'd do better and be a lot more self-aware.
I recently came back to the game in 2022 and can’t believe this had to be said. I remember reading competitive articles from Doug back in 2012-2014 and my man was considered pro level
Yugitube needs a "I am not your friend" video. Viewers are dumb and just mimic whatever you guys do and you guys react to and hang out to eachother in a very friendly way with silly jokes about eachothers skill and then viewers take that as fact. And tbh no it isn't just a bit, I hear people shit on yugitubers at locals, people will sit there and seriously discuss who are the "worst" yugitubers in terms of playing the game.
It's crazy how it just comes down to that: viewers get too comfortable and start thinking they can say the same shit their favorite streamer says, except viewers are complete random no-ones. They don't know shit about boundaries.
@@deswide i mean it's understandable. It's like what happens with diehard fans of X actor/actress or band or whatever. But MUCH more informal because UA-camrs and streamers are (mostly) just guys who happened to have a camera and decided to upload shit (at least in the beginning of course) Them being more down to earth or whatever creates this weird asymmetric bond between viewer and content creator that is like, it FEELS like a close friend because you know so much about them, but they don't know anything about you. And from that stems all of the world's problems, from stalkers I mean STANS (ugh) to people """unintentionally""" bullying CC's the same way you'd joke around with a buddy of yours That's why we need in general, as a society, some way to acknowledge and create awareness about parasocial shit
MBT to Most Yugioh Players: You can make suboptimal decisions for fun. Games are about fun, it's a shame Yugioh has created a culture of such single-minded competition. MBT to Ghostrick Players: GET BENT LOSERS I'M MAKING UDF BECAUSE I LIKE TO WIN AAAAAAAAAAAHHHH RATIO + L + UR WHITE
I really enjoy watch Doug's series because even if he loses he always tries to make the episodes fun to watch. Sometimes a series can be painful to watch on Yugioh UA-cam since sometimes when a player is losing/winning they're either a sore loser or a sore winner and it makes the episode hell to watch. Some Prog episodes where Nyhmnim is winning he'll slip into that sore winner mentality and it kills my enjoyment a bit, hell even MBT in some prog playoff episodes will be a sore loser when losing. Doug whether winning or losing always makes it a fun time to watch. Idk that's my two cents on it. Not throwing shade at anyone I mention in this comment, I'm a sore loser/winner when I play any game sometimes, it happens, but off the top of my head I can't remember a time where Doug has been like that. All around chill dude.
Dzeeff is a very good competitive player, and people like that generally know better than to let losses upset them or to let wins go to their head. I agree that it leads to him being very entertaining almost all the time.
@@GanguroKonata And amongst a plethora of other reasons, the fact they literally are not allowed to interact with Chat makes it so much better than it would otherwise
I like Dzeef as much as the next guy but let's be real. Never complains? Doug conplains about his pulls practically every other episode. Now to be fair he's had some bad pulls, but he most certainly HAS been a sore loser. But that's fine. Dougs a great guy but don't paint him better than he his.
@@craigbowen9995 His tone is very light; he likes to joke-complain about his pulls/MBT's, but there's rarely if ever salt or tilt in his voice or body language.
There's a saying that goes something like "If you pretend to be stupid don't be surprised when actual idiots show up and think they're in good company". If you do something or say something as a joke or ironically that intention will not get across to everyone who hears it. Especially when making detrimental jokes or edgy jokes you have to weigh how much being funny in the moment is worth attracting annoying people. The best way to change the tone and contents of what others around you say is to change the tone and content of your own words. This goes for places like a comment section as much as it does a professional workplace or a casual gathering. People are able to set the tone and expectations by example better than by statement.
This is a really great point, and it doubles up with another huge issue with any kind of social media. One person saying something can be a bit. Eighteen fucktillion people trying to do the same "relatably rude" bit is indistinguishable from hell.
That's just how comedy works.... part of your audience will be too stupid to understand the joke. It doesn't matter what type of comedian is being talked about, that's going to be true.
I'll just say, I'm sure a ton of people don't actually enjoy Yugioh, they enjoy winning and gain their enjoyment from that. I'm one of those people, I don't find modern YGO to be fun, it's merely a bridge to get my brain thinking and to try to outskill my opponent. That's why I think people see it from that perspective, but also coming from a content creator, you want to make the content engaging, but 99% of people don't have that viewpoint and never will. In fact, they get angry at that because they want the series to be as real as possible. For me, my viewers HATE when I do "throwing for content" or some dumb s**t in a nuzlocke because it's funny, and not because it's optimal, and that's just how people are. Last thing, is that the dissatisfied people are usually a very vocal minority, like Doug shouldn't have gotten pooped on for playing Herald, or Alex with Blackwings (albeit that should've been taken care of with a ban, not something in the series by that point though). Hope my insight makes both sides understand and I really hope people understand it's just a game, we're all trying to have fun (outside of the hyper-comp people that prioritize tops over fun, nut you do you if you're clearly enjoying it).
The fact this happens is ridiculous. I've always thought Doug was incredible at deck building and looked up to him in a way. The main reason I loved that series is because of the personality of you two playing off of each other.
The best part about the Doug doesn't read jokes is that I make those kinds of mistakes at least 3 times as often in decks which I play consistently not just a deck I HAD to build with only limited amounts of key cards
This do be quite literally the Call of Duty of TCGs. Doug demonstrates clearly in every video you’ve done together he’s a strong Yugioh player. I hope he can push out the morons and keep up how he does.
i think that part of it is that we see chat as this monolithic entity when really its different people speaking up at different times. Chat isn't one person being a dick, its a horrifying chimera of different people with different opinions. the people complaining that doug isn't trying probably aren't the same as the people that complain that doug isn't playing fun decks.
18:00 rewatching this part after learning Gavin actively changed his decks mid episode is fucking hilarious. Like, of course Leah wouldn't Cheat. The villain Gavin, however
Dzeef versus MBT is like pitting a doctor against a guy who got bored one night and read through every question in his Trivial Pursuit box. Dzeef almost certainly knows more than MBT and in a generalized test he'd probably win out, but when game night rolls around MBT is probably taking the win. Doug is basically getting told to learn how to play an archetype he's played against once at locals while Joseph has played every archetype in the game twice, so even if Doug is a better player overall Joseph has the advantage of not going in blind
I literally just watch it to enjoy it. When I start an episode my brain just picks a person to root for for the episode and I root for them. Why is it so hard for people to not get emotionally invested in a spinning wheel and rng packs that decide who has an advantage
"People don't act like this in any other card game" Uh... listen I don't like this behavior either but people absolutely claim players are bad overall when they lose, regardless of what the reason is, in other card games.
I feel like one thing that makes this worse is how the yugitube sphere is quite connected so some people may see multiple content creators make jokes at each other and then just assume they can make the same jokes even though that's absolutely not the case. Friends and random people on the internet automatically have different tones.
I remember Dzeefs older videos. He had to constantly explain the exact same thing, that there is such a thing a playing casually or for fun and that you can use your god cards or old staples in these decks, but that the deck won't be competitive and you won't win a YCS with it. But that's not a problem if that isn't even your goal.
Doug is the reason I play yugioh and Doug's videos taught me to deck build. Listening to Doug has never steered me wrong and I often think "what would doug do?" when I am stumped on the best way to proceed. He got me thinking in a way that allowed me to see lines and to never rely on my opponent to make a mistake or take an action to move my game forward. MBT has great qualities and I have learned a lot from him but Doug has a way of teaching that no one else can touch. And its because hes a damn good player!
As a very casual viewer I didn't realize just how much I had fallen into this mindset. This was a very needed grownup talk. Just because Yugioh is a children's card game doesn't mean we can behave like brats.
I believe Dzeef isn't the only one with that either as I think TeamSamuraiX1 is kind of in a similar boat as what Doug said because Sam also has high records, he just has a lot of passion in what he does for the most part. At least that's what I heard about him.
He gets a lot of hate cuz how popular he is and his contents are mostly nostalgia baiting for playing anime deck. Some people also accused him for ripping off other Yugituber's content (which I believe it's not true) Personally i have no issue with Sam's content ( I love Duel Night) but i just don't really like his obnoxious attitude (which part of his persona tbh)
I like Sam, sometimes he is enjoyable but sometimes annoying (and closes the video in the early minutes). . I think Sam has a problem with his communication to his community. I don't really like his comment section because there are (mostly) people hoping for giveaway like bots. I think he should stop his GA for a while to filter "real" viewer, and make his community more alive.
I think people tend to bag on Sam for his clickbait more than anything. I can somewhat understand that, but I also think Sam is never that serious with his videos, either. People need to just understand that.
I'm so happy you guys are having this conversations with the viewers. That's something I feel need to be done much, much more by streamers/youtubers. The community look up to content creators but then the CCs act to please the community, that create a unhealty situation where the community feels entitled and the CCs burn out. Videos like this one should be post in regular intervals to call out the problems that NEED to be addressed, communication is the key to solve problems and I really feel that CCs fail into that aspect almost all the time. To make my point, just look on how many toxic communities exist that are just ignored by the CCs that either created or are the reason said community exist.
When Master Duel came out, I decided I was finally going to build Altergeist. That decision involved me hunting down DZeef’s most recent Altergeist list. If Doug didn’t make the list, I ain’t playing it.
My favorite parts of all you guys shows are when you missread cards or fuck up combos and POG. It’s so relateable. As a Dane i think Yu-Gi-Oh cards are so confusing to read. The shows you guys collaborate on are the best best parts of the week. ❤
...Suddenly the video where he solemnly puts his copies of Brilliant Fusion onto a wall before discussing the ban list that limited it makes a lot more sense.
Win or lose Doug makes it enjoyable. His energy and enthusiasm no matter what is going on he is the life of the episode and it is clear he knows what he's doing for the sake of the content. Anyone who can't see that is crazy
This reminds me so much of the SmallAnt/PointCrow situation. Turns out, UA-cam commentors and TwitchViewers just suck and dont understand that just because two creators are friends doesnt mean you are their friend for watching them
Parasocial relationships are a really wonky thing - and not something people (viewers and content creators) pay enough attention to. One of my favorite streamers (Pokemon Challenges) says something like "I don't know you. If you ever start thinking I'm your friend you need to stop watching and go outside".
Pointcrow was just being a prissy bitch, don't compare that situation to this. In the Smallant situation people were praising Smallant for how good he was and Crow got jealous and annoyed, especially when people would go into his channel and ask when their next collab was. Hell, that situation got so bad with his paranoia that he started thinking Smallant was stealing his video ideas and purposefully setting him up, it was like watching a man put on his first tinfoil hat. Then when his friend apologizes for literally everything he did wrong as a friend and promised to be better he rejects the apology like a fucking dimwit brat. I watched Pointcrow all the time, I've never been so infuriated with how a person can act towards the people that care about them. This is completely different, this is the yugioh community being over competitive and shitting on him for really no reason(yes he might build boring stuff some times). People love throwing around the world parasocial now, it has basically lost all meaning because the moment someone shows support or distain for a person it's suddenly parasocial. The yugioh community is just very bad at having fun and older parts of the community might dislike him for his meta loving attitude he had a few years back, and now that carries over here.
I'm sure this "overly-competitive" mindset is why konami has been cashing-in so much on power creep. They're just giving players what they want: a way to rub their opponents face into the dirt!
At least during the time I watched him, Doug seemed very condescending toward casuals and the thought of sub-optimal building. Really rubbed me the wrong way. I liked some of his takes, but could never get over this personality trait I saw. Honestly, Rush duels are where my head is. Rush Duel, at the very least, removes looping (all effects hard OPT) and simplifies the card text. It also removes the limits of drawing poorly for the most part by refilling your hand. It seems very casual friendly; nothing is too crazy overpowered or dominant from what I can see.
I will say just as we're on the topic. One of the main issues I had watching progression playoff is that MBT would go full tilt when playing off meta, or when misplaying (because the format is just so so different). The issue isn't that you weren't taking it seriously or were playing poorly, but that you weren't having fun playing a meme deck or while misplaying your ass off.
i am a former division one athlete and current coach and yugioh just happens to be my favorite hobby. there’s an unreal amount of variance in sports, and you can go on huge winning and losing sprees without doing anything different just due to randomness. the same thing happens in card games, unless your deck building is terrible, you’re making a lot of misplays, or you’re playing decks with huge differences in power level, it’s really not that uncommon for someone to lose 4 or 5 matches in a row, the exact same as sports. at the end of the day, this is a game and meant to be fun and it’s a real human on the other side of the screen (who seems quite nice!) that you know full well you’d never say those things to their face.
Seeing this after being a fan of Doug from when i was super into ygo 8 years ago is so upsetting. I remember getting super excited to see how he would update Altergeist and his Subterror builds. He is a genius and far from terrible like people make him out to be.
One day dark Dzeef comes out with "Commenters don't understand how much better I am" where he plays meta against MBT and "Why nobody plays Burning Abyss" against Farfa talking like an anime villain, who held back his final form.
I found all your channels simply because I was feeling depressed one day, remembered the anime and deciding to see if anyone did videos. I suck at the game, and don't really understand half the cards. I stuck around because people like you (MBT), Gage, Alex ect. were just fun personalities to watch. History of Jank is my fav because of how ridiculous the decks are and the very fact that you guys don't take it seriously. Its just a fun game between friends with some awful cards for the sake of having fun, and I love that. Reminds me of playing as a kid and not understanding the rules at all, but still having a blast. People just take things too seriously sometimes when they are really invested in an idea or group of people, and that really sucks. Anyway, just wanted to comment and let you know i appreciate the work you all do, cheers
Genuinely I think a very big reason for the vitriol around the DPE thing is because of Master duel. Also another really big issue is that master duell has made everyone think that they could be competitive because they got to platinum. A lot of people are just unaware of the really big differences.
Exactly this. Master Duel is 1) a bad format since it is best of 1, and 2) most people are REALLY sub-optimal players on there. That tends to happen just due to statistics.
Yeah I’ll say it openly I’m a fairly mediocre player who goes 50/50 at best at locals but I have something like and 90%+ win rate on master duel just because I happen to have a passing understanding of popular decks and most of the time you are playing people who don’t take the 5 seconds to read what your cards do and loose to themselves 😂
@@ducky36F I'm only 60% winrate on MD just due to the sheer fact that you can lose to literal trash at any moment. I have at least 10+ losses over the months of playing just from Numeron using LS + Kaiju/Golem. The cheese just gets me all the time. My luck is poor. :(
I am not the best at Master Duel. I have a rather low win ratio, I've only gotten to platinum once but that's mostly just because seeing the same deck every other duel is genuinely annoying to me. I have a good understanding of how the game works, I have a good knowledge of a bunch of different archetypes because of the fact that before I started watching Yugitubers and I played Legacy of the Duelist and forced myself to look at a bunch of cards and read. I had no idea what the hell they did but I forced myself to figure it out. The biggest reason that I lose is because of the fact that I don't play meta ever because it's a dirty word that means that I stop having fun. I play shit like graydle-kaijus and infernoids because it more fun for me to play stupid bad stuff. One of the of the really big reasons why I like MBT so much is because he plays a very wide variety of things and it's not just let's play meta episode 596. He like a lot of Yu-Gi-Oh UA-camrs understand the importance of throwing for content because that is very important in UA-cam especially gaming UA-cam. He also has a good understanding of the fact that winning is not the most important thing it's how you enjoy yourself which is something I think a lot of people on the internet need to learn and remember. I generally think this video is more important for a lot of people who play Yu-Gi-Oh to see because I feel like on the road to winning a lot of people forget why they enjoy doing this in the first place and they end up quitting the game after they've won. I feel like everyone including myself has fallen into that Trap. I feel like one of the few good things that came from me starting Yu-Gi-Oh with Legacy of the Duelist is that I have a good understanding of losing a lot because my hand was bad or I'm not that good attack building or whatever reason it was at the time and it gave me a good place to just improve by myself without comparing it to what everyone else is doing because that can genuinely change your play style a lot which can very easily cause you to just not enjoy it. I completely understand that losing is frustrating for a lot of people and not a lot of the time people will absolutely avoid losing at any cost if they can. Genuinely I'm kind of just in love with the fact that a lot of people on master duel play really random funny decks that are bad but enjoyable. It's one of the biggest reasons I haven't completely abandoned it. I separated this off from the rest of this rant because I'm voice typing and I want this to be the primary point that people see. It genuinely impresses me that people are able to make something like Yu-Gi-Oh their career and not get sick of it. It takes an astounding amount of self resolve to not see all the s*** that people say about how you play and about what you're doing and still continue to do it. Yu-Gi-Oh UA-camrs and UA-camrs in general who make content about one thing will always impress me no matter what happens because it's a lot. I genuinely thank them for what they do and for giving me content to watch when I'm up for no reason at 3:00 a.m.. Anyway that's the end of my rant. I literally kind of just word vomited this for no reason. I wanted to make a somewhat normal comment first before I did this that way people wouldn't be scrolling past and click read more and then suddenly their screen would be full of the ramblings of this narcissist. Whoever's reading this I hope you have a wonderful day if you got this far.
As far as Doug goes, I can understand the he is a very capable competitive player. What is frustrating regarding his sealed series performance is that the majority of his negative results within his control are just caused by carelessness. I don't know if its being on camera, or if he feels he needs to keep up a rapid pace, or maybe he needs to devote too much attention to commentary/banter to play well. Whatever the reason, he seems to consistenty refuse to read cards, read cards properly, or take an appropriate amount of time to think about the results of his moves before he makes them. His series with MBT has 100% been favoured towards whoever won the first episode, so that's by no means his gameplay that causes some losses. However, of the losses he does have control over they are consistently careless mistakes. Straight up "i'll just assume this card does nothing", only to walk into an anime-esque "you've activated my card's special ability!" which he just didn't want to find out about beforehand. I like Doug's content, and I have nothing against him personally. I'm just highlighting the reasoning behind why people get fired up about his gameplay. I'll watch his series regardless, 15 weeks of Fabled or not :)
@@hi-i-am-atan yep :D but dont do the armchair psychology thing and be like "oh they want to feel better because blah blah blah". its really not that deep
I would love for Doug to just have an LTG moment and remind the chat that he’s the entertainer they’re just names on a screen. Would be incredibly warranted as of late lol
It’s really weird when a streamer leans in to what is obviously a joke for a little too long and the community starts taking it way too seriously. I see it happen all the time. It’s why it’s super weird to use dark humour online sometimes because you start to get people that actually believe the things you’re clearly joking about.
The problem is, many...frankly to many viewers do not realize that what they watch, ys even streamers, is a persona. Its an act they put on to get views. So in many cases, people take things far to seriously.
this video actually resonates with me on a deep level. i desperately try to avoid playing meta as much as i can by playing stuff that doesn't require a spreadsheet because, quite simply, i am not a good player at all. i've been disheartened by the state of the game, and all alternate formats end the same with me (I try it out, get curb stomped endlessly, give up and sulk) and it just drives a huge wedge in my love for the game. a recent example is me wanting to play pacifis with a bunch of 2k atk level 4 vanillas in MD, but the sheer amount of things happening on my screen forced me to run every relevant handtrap AND skill drain to even breathe, let alone play. i genuinely feel out of place when trying to play yugioh, unless i play by myself via one of the video games, but playing yugioh alone is as depressing as losing 100% of the time. i just don't know what to do anymore, and i sincerely don't want to quit this game. i've been around since day 1 in 2002 and i'd hate to tap out now with all these awesome new cards and supports for strategies i used to love playing... so hearing you have similar issues with how the game is perceived currently kinda, as cheesy and lame as it sounds, opened the floodgates and i just had to pour my heart and soul out.
This is incredibly important and personally I think your right the community feeds off of being toxic and it's awful. I appreciate you taking the time to set people right. Keep doing what your doing man this anything you guys have done has been awesome. Thank you!
This is a really interesting topic. I personally come from a Vanguard community, and it is very common to see people playing decks that dont win very often, and I’ve seen those people get criticized for not playing the best deck or the optimal way to build that specific deck, thus being called bad players or being not taken seriously. People don’t seem to understand that 1. Not everyone enjoys playing competitively, maybe my deck is bad, but it is what I enjoy playing 2. Not because you play a deck that doesnt win often means that you are a bad player, I know really good players that don’t play meta or top tier decks just because they don’t enjoy them. 3. The fact that a person keeps switching to top tier decks and keeps wining because of that doesn’t necessarily mean that they are good players either, there can be a good player playing a bad deck and losing and there can be a bad player playing a top tier deck and winning just because the deck basically plays itself. In the end looks like people tend to forget that before anything competitive, card games are meant to be fun, and you should be able to play whatever you enjoy first. I believe that when a community becomes more competitive is when the fun for the casuals ends, you end up playing against people that only plays what wins and end up having a not so enjoyable time because of that. Maybe you don’t like meta, maybe you can’t afford it or maybe you have other reasons. But you should never be criticized for playing what you like and having fun while doing it.
This video resonated with me and put a lot of what I've been feeling lately into words. When I started playing I played whatever deck I thought was cool and had fun labing jank garbage all the time. Over time I felt shamed into taking the game more and more seriously, and now I collect cards because it's fun to test hand but playing has become so exhausting I don't even go to locals anymore. Yu-Gi-Oh needs more pure fun formats, I've tried building a cube for the first time and it's the most engaged I've been with the game in years.
Doug, was a huge fan of and player for Altergeist, my 1st competitive deck since returning to the game. It will always have a special place for me, and he encouraged the use of the deck to the joy and detriment of the playerbase.
tbh I'd love a series where yugitubers just play tryhard with constructed decks that they're familiar with. Would provide contrast against the fun series. Also insane to me that people actually think Doug is bad when he says things like "Don't worry, chat, I see the line" before T-set passing.
12:20 I think some part of it here is that people genuinely don't understand that you guys are friends. They see you as content creators who sometimes work on things together with the assumption being that that's all business, so when people see you ribbing at him or dunking on him, they don't think "Oh they're friends and this is banter" they think "Wow, these are the honest and unfiltered opinions of MBT, I guess this other guy really does suck!"
It’s unfortunate that, much like a review, people tend to comment because they feel the need to vocalize frustration or distaste while those that enjoy are more likely to just leave a like.
It’s sad to see people not seeing fun in the series. I’m a casual at yugioh and more into magic and watching you guys try to make the best of what you got is really fun. I really hope things go better for you guys, it might be better to just not read comments and go based off views for a while.
It's not a yugioh thing, it's a "people on the internet can safely be a-holes" thing. Every video/stream is gonna have those types of people, there's no stopping it. Watched a video about cute hamsters where they addressed the insanely aggressive comments about them "not raising their hamsters correctly".
I think a big part of this is generally how these shows are presented and the whole formatting of it. It’s a “show” with “score” and “hosts” that “compete” against each other. The reason a series like jank bank doesn’t get this kind of shit is because they simply are not presented in this format it’s just MBT fucking around using decks that like, three people total globally know how to use. With series like Saga, Prog, Roulette, Playoffs, they present it with a whole intro reel and scoreboard which makes the commenters and viewers take it way or seriously than intended. I’m not gonna say the commenters don’t also have a responsibility do take these series with a grain of salt but it should be expected that if you put elements of what’s basically a two person reality tv series, that these kinds of emotions will come out of people
I think people hear MBT and Farfa dunking on Gage and Dzeef and roasting them for their mistakes and think that they, complete strangers, have a free pass to shit on these content creators because it's funny and everyone laughs when the funny internet man does it, not recognizing the context that these people are doing it to make jokes at the expense of their *friends* who they have a lot of respect for. And that's a difficult line to walk. As a content creator it's really hard to engage in that kind of humor and not have your following take it too far. You need to keep your community on a really tight leash, and even then, there's always going to be clueless people just wandering in and not realizing that they don't have the right to be an asshole.
Same thing happened with Markiplier and his friend Wade. Wade wound up being the butt of jokes and the community thought they had a right to say the same things Mark and Bob did out of context to the point he had people shouting "shut-up Wade" at conventions. I don't know why people think riffing on someone you don't know is okay.
"you wouldn't see this in any other card game" Actually a lie. In peak hearthstone days the average casual player would probably say kripp or reynad was the best player ever. Even once firebat won the first worlds
N/R was so great because I'd get cooked by the goofiest deck ever, and then just craft it and try it for a few games to have fun before getting cooked again.
@@lorenzomassetti2699 sorry to hear,you had that experience, but most people thought it was the best festival. Maybe you played when people were just farming missions.
@@lorenzomassetti2699 i wish we had faced each other. I had a monstrosity of Magistus/Shaddoll deck that had to use an equip spell to fusion. Top tier fun was had when i wasn't facing specifically dinomist, metalfoes, or timelords.
Actually a great explanation of it, I started streaming like a year ago and had to stop interacting with some people who were in my community for the whole time because they’re just toxic to me, also had to end a short series literally 4 weeks in because it was just so unfun seeing how rude people were, thanks for articulating it like this
7:30 this right here is exactly why I pivoted from Yugioh to Magic the Gathering. Despite being an arguably much more expensive game at competitive formats and tables, I am perfectly able to play a budget deck of the gameplay, archetype, color, mechanics and/or tribes I want and have a decent shot at a commander table. It's an incentive to keep playing. When I was playing yugioh, it seemed like investing in cards and decks because you simply like them is worthless and a waste of time and money. I just truly wish yugioh had a true casual format, people take everything so seriously in this game.
I think a big issue is that because the game is really only taken seriously in paper and Konami makes no effort to stream games nor are the top/most popular players in close proximity to each other and people (for good reason) don’t stream their play testing. The community never really gets to see these high level players playing against each other in a serious environment with good decks, so by proxy these non constructed serious get looked at through a scope of perceived competitiveness rather than a fun series. People lose sight of when you all are actually “trying” vs trying to just make entertainment.
Yea, just wanted to chime in. I've been watching Doug for years now and he's always been one of my favorite YugiTubers. Those of you who may not be as familiar with him, just know that Joseph is spot on, Doug is a super intelligent guy and is indeed good at the game despite what some of the silly mistakes or missplays may have you think. Just remember that this is a game with over 10,000 cards and when you are saddled with random cards from a random pack(s) you may not always play at your best or see all the potential lines... Also, as mentioned, sometimes stomping your friend with something even resembling meta in a series that is meant to be fun and ridiculous just isn't what it's about. Go watch someone try-harding on YGO Omega or something instead.
I feel like the point about Yu-Gi-Oh players not being able to grasp the concept of playing a sub-optimal Deck goes beyond just UA-cam, as well. Personally, I've had people at a couple different locals give me shit when my Deck loses, trying to tell me half the cards in my Deck are bad and that I'm stupid for not running X card or playing Y expensive meta-relevant Deck. I feel like one of the best parts about Yu-Gi-Oh is the freedom to play any Deck you want thanks to its massive card pool, but so many people are only tunnel-visioned into seeing about 5-10 different Decks as playable, and every other Deck as unplayable garbage. And although Speed Duel and Sealed events occasionally come up where I am and I find myself having a blast whenever I can play them due to the lower pressure, at the end of the day Advanced Format is where most people are and although it's certainly not everyone in the community that acts in this way, this hyper-competitive mindset is really prevalent, and I wish people could understand that some people just wanna play for fun and don't care about how well they do, just that they be allowed to play and have a good time. Thanks for getting this message out there, because I think a lot of players really need to hear it.
It's funny that Josheph says that he doesn't know where does this attitude come from when is kinda obvious. Like, there is so many content creators that put this toxic persona in front of the camera, that talk how the game sucks, this player suck and your mama sucks that sooner rather than later they just fostered a toxic community and act surprised once things turn out like this. This being said, i feel sorry for Dough but also i gotta be honest and as an spectator by the third time he bringed Fables to saga i was so out of it because seeing one sided matches are not fun nor entaiterning to witness
Honestly, this is great. Shine light on this. I get all communities will have toxic people, but as a whole we should strive to build each other as players. The locals scene should be your yugioh family, and we should always be willing to build each other up with that. If they’re losing maybe help them see mistakes they made in a constructive manner. Idk I stand for what MBT is saying here.
As an MtG player, this mindset is so strange to me. The clear delineation of formats and format types had always made it clear to me that some players are just better than others in certain environments. I'm a significantly better limited player than I am a constructed player (though, arguably that's because I don't play online and don't want to pony up the cash for a good deck so I stick with "good deck at home"), and it's always seemed to me that MBT is just a good limited player - he has the proper mindset for it, and it's kind of hard to expect an opponent to have that proper mindset if the only format is constructed. The not understanding fun thing is also something that's weird for me - in commander, players often talk about making their decks WORSE if they make them too good. Commander was intended to be casual, and people like having decks of roughly the same power level as their playgroup. Honestly, like MBT said, the problem is the lack of other formats in yugioh, and that's something I think should change. Until then, go play some junior journey or something, get a broader perspective on things.
Yeah I mostly play sealed for Magic and having switched over to commander man am I just bad at it. The different formats all bring unique challenges. I guess if there is only one format things can get sweaty.
Thanks for making this video MBT. It needed to be brought up. It sucks that most of the people watching probably don't comment and enjoy the fun you guys bring to the table while the commenters manage to ruin. Hope Doug sees the support from all these comments. Keep doing what you're doing guys!
i dont think people realised that doug actually topped ycs like twice, top 4 at one point which is much higher than anything they have achieved in the ygo space
i’ve literally pointed out how impressive his tops are in the comments and how the series nature inherently gives a huge advantage to MBT given the nature of his channel and still had people try to argue he’s a bad player
@@Aaronrules380 I mean... he doesn't exactly read his cards, I couldn't name an episode where he played without messing up each combo several times, some times because he just didn't take a look at the text. Anyone with money can realistically top a YCS, get a meta deck, practice it and then get lucky. Yugioh is incredibly static, your combos only change if the opponent has a specific deck that your usual field can't 100% deal with, even then you might just switch one part of the combo. The hardest part of yugioh is buying the deck and traveling to the tournaments.
It's a unique problem with yugioh considering we are the most ape like tcg of all time. We are the dude bros of neets. To elaborate a little more, like, look at dkayeds community. Idk about other tcgs, but from what I've seen of his chat, it feels like a frat house ran by seto kaiba. Distant coder is very high energy and silly. **farfa** . Theres a level of immaturity that permiates the community, me included, I'm in every yugioh video complaining about how expensive things are, I am not immune to this effect but I still see it happening. Mbt touches in this effect PERFECTLY all on his own, this clip is solid gold.
I have not seen a Dkayed chat but I have seen a few of his viewers behave in some situations where they believe everything he says even if it's not really true.
@@DarknessDpa nah that's about the go of it from what I've seen. He's probably not even that bad, but his fanbase creates this wall around him that naturally gatekeeps wanting to be around him and his community.
I think there needs to be a huge distinction made here between playing for fun, intentionally throwing, unintentionally throwing and playing to win. If you play for fun, you still want to win, you just lower your odds a bit via choosing a "bad" deck example not playing tear rn in TCG or OCG. Totally fine, everyone understands it and nobody should give anyone shit for this. Making missplays is something very natural and nobody can completely avoid it, especially when playing odd decks they aren't used to like in limited series. If you feel the need to point those out then at least be respectful and keep in mind that nobody knows every deck, also most yugitubers really don't care about that info as they will likely never bring those decks to a competitive event. Every card game format besides EDH requires a certain amount of "playing to win" so that its fun for both players. Intentionally throwing games(as in deliberately missing lethal to extend a match etc) because "haha its just a game, we are playing for fun" is where it gets iffy. OFC nobody does this in yugioh youtube series but this is where the "nothing matters its all just fun" argument can lead. Things can be competitive without being toxic. We don't have to choose between mega no fun allowed sweat zone and just putting cards on the table. Also obviously younger viewers and people who don't know better will just jump on those criticising comments and write their own even less polite comments when they see the whole comment section filled with them. Maybe talk about this at the start of roulette for a few weeks and try to get at least the ones that are willing to listen to change.
My first exposure to yugioh content was History of Jank. I’ve since started following a bunch of other series, like Roulette, Prog, Saga, Guess that card, Ruling Quiz, etc. and have never understood the comments section. Some of my favorite content on UA-cam used to be Pokémon Draft Leagues, where content creators draft teams of Pokémon and battle friends with an assortment of 6 of those drafted Mons. I loved seeing the creativity in sets and play styles varying based on matchup. Where I’m trying to go with this is that sealed series like Prog and Roulette especially fit in the same vein to me, and I come back every week because of the creativity of the creators and your personalities. I don’t understand why EVERYTHING has to be about wins and losses. There’s a ton of value in jokes, watching a fun match, and seeing different people’s takes on deck building that I feel as though gets largely ignored in these series.
I have no issues with Master Saga. The issue I have with Master Roulette is that there are weeks where Dzeeff seems to hardly understand the deck that he's using. As a viewer, I'm not looking for full knowledge of the deck, but I would like for whoever the pilot is to look like they at least tested their deck a few games to understand and somewhat optimize their deck. I think people enjoy watching duelists playing well with bad/limited decks, but people really dislike watching duels with poor play regardless of quality of the deck and that's the issue that I have with Master Roulette. Doug makes mistakes in Saga, but he seems competent with the deck that he brings in most weeks so I don't have a problem with misplays.
They record the opening and then deckbuild and play in Roulette. So obviously no time for testing. This makes sense for their current setup and schedule. Maybe a better way to handle it would be to spin the deck selection roulette at the end of the previous episode(can still edit it on the start of the new one) and then record pulls separately and play next week so both players have the option to test a bit.
honestly as someone who not only doesn't watch yugitube all that much (if at all) but also doesn't comment/read comments really at all I was surprised to hear that Doug has even won a game at all, honestly he always seemed entertaining and a cool guy in the videos of his I've seen but I've literally never seen him win (I always just attributed it to poor luck on camera), I have a newfound respect for him now (not that I thought he couldn't have schooled me before lol I know I'm bad)
I think this is like watching sports or wrestling. You want to see your team win, whether they are better actually or not, and you also want to see it in a fun way. It's the reason I didn't enjoy watching the Patriots football team win all the time. They were good, but not always fun/entertaining for me. I appreciate that Doug is focusing on having fun and messing up plays rather than being the best player. In my opinion that's why Doug's content is some of the best right now.
Doug and his content are a huge part of why I got back into yugioh as an adult after playing as a child, and it really sucks that some people can't understand that a series of videos are mostly for fun
MBT seems to be fairly good with pretty much every archetype, like a jack-of-all-trades, while Dzeeff is great with all the top/meta decks, but isn't as good with the lesser known archetypes. That puts Dzeeff in like a 50/50 spot with MBT. He'll either get a meta pack he knows and be able to play it really well, or he'll get a pack he's barely even seen, and won't know the best way to play the deck But it also just depends on what cards they pull. We've seen MBT pull good holos from almost every pack, and Dzeeff will get 3 random from outside the pack that he can't even use. At the end of the day, just let them have fun and enjoy the content. Yeah it's a "competition" but it's not as fun if they're both try-harding every week
You should probably upload this on the main channel, this is a very important topic that needs to be discussed to tone down the toxicity in the community.
agreed
Cannot upvote this comment more
iirc, he doesn't own this channel. It's a fan account
edit: It's official clip channel but is run by hypnocorn
How did you copy and paste my comment from the future?
I would maybe say a more edited/scripted video on the topic but yeah, it's a concept people do not understand
I would love to see a "Commenters don't understand Yu-Gi-Oh! UA-cam series" from Doug
This would be great, but I don't think that Doug should make it. There might be other Yugitubers whose relationship to their fans might be better for this purpose.
@@jefi1298 Is this a Gage call? Because this sounds like a video Gage could/should make.
@@jefi1298 The first 3.5 minutes of this video was that.
Farfa, MBT and Doug roasting bad yugioh take on comments.
This, Doug used to eviscerate dumb commenters all the time, he should bring it back
Doug is one of the most wholesome and intelligent yugitubers out there. It's sad to see people complain about how much he "sucks" when he's literally just trying to entertain his audience.
I think many people don't even realize that because he went through this really obnoxious period of trying to grow his channel to the hypercasual audience. I really liked reading his tcgplayer articles back in the day but him uploading Egyptian God decklists or video essays on why Mountain isn't seeing play turned me away.
It's funny that you say that, because the last couple of months, whenever one of these "Who is you favorite Yugituber"-polls come up, I've only heard people complain about Doug how eg. toxic he is. Either something must've changed this year or all the people are crazy. (Not insinuating, that I find him toxic btw)
@Struggler Yeah I'm not sure what Ryan is talking about. The reason why years back he used to be called toxic by the community was because of how much he hated casual dueling or the concept of it. He was all meta this, meta that. He was hardcore into just playing competitively and found the idea of casual, dumb or something. He mellowed out to where he is today now like around 2020 and stopped being so obnoxious about competitive dueling over anything else. Dzeeff's obnoxious period was back then, not today's time.
@@Eyck-head The only toxic YugiTuber I can think of would be JCD Godot. Toxic is not a word I would associate with Doug Zeef AT ALL.
@bastardrian he just likes fabled. My favorite cards are dark necrofear and sorcerer of dark magic. We all have blind spots.
I thought the same thing when the first season of Prog was coming out: a lot of fans are just too comfortable shitting on many of you without realizing that you are all friends. If you banter between each other is because you're all both friends and business partners. When randos barge in it's most of the time not banter, it's just being an asshole.
@bastardrian I don't know what to tell you, but if they legitimately think they get that privilege just for watching videos and speaking in chat, they might as well go seek a therapist. *Now.*
Well, part of the argument is that if they are gonna be able to make a living off of and become relatively famous then they should be able to deal with hate. That is part of the job.
Not to say we couldn't nurture a much better environment (and we should.) But off of the Progression Series Nhym probably became one of if not the best known Yugioh content creators while getting a big enough boost in his income he feels okay quitting his job at the card shop. Long hours editing = the pay and having no boss, the hate = fame and having no boss to change responsibility to. Mind you he put in effort to achieve said fame (the spotlight wasn't foisted upon him) the hate is a side-effect.
Cimo is the only one who seems to not show it as much. Also doesn’t seem to have ppl helping him formulate decks like gage does on prog.
In prog, MBT and Farfa have conditioned their viewers that is fine to trash others. Considering they have gotten paid to be toxic. Yugi-tubers need to learn how to use their influence for good instead of back pedaling when the toxicity that they enabled hits them back
@@siopaoguy Yep, and MBT literally addresses that here
Doug's literally been playing this game longer than some of y'all have even been alive. He's in the Mount Rushmore of Yugi-tuber's for sure. Keep your head up king.
I remember using the Blackwing deck he uploaded to TCGplayer when I was a kid.
Pretty sure I even remember them mentioning him in a History of Yugioh episode, which says a lot I think.
People definitely don't give Doug the benefit of the doubt. Something like Fabled isn't god, but it's hilarious when it wins.
There's an old MTG clip of LSV throwing a game he's winning in order to see the MTGO client handle an infinite loop. The reaction from everyone is basically just "LMAO best 5/3 match."
He has also misplays every video
@@grimdeth2197 Basically every player makes constant little mistakes throughout matches. Especially when they are using cards they have never seen before the day of use.
Watching the Twitter thread a few minutes ago had me pondering why I enjoy MBT's content regardless of the format, game or channel. And this is such a good example. Even though he portrays himself as just some card playing asshole when he's with his friends or just for content (meant in the best possible way as a card playing asshole myself), he also has eloquent commentary on the history of the games he loves with genuine enthusiasm, and THIS! The ability to be self aware and have real, knowledgeable insights into culture. Be it around the game, or often real world problems
Yeah he just comes across as one of those people that acts like a butt but really is just a great guy 😂
I honestly think Yugitube would be way less openly progressive without MBT.
I remember donating to Farfa years ago after he said something about how building a wall is crazy &/or racist. Never heard a peep about his politics otherwise except when he chats with MBT. Basically the same with Doug, and outside of economic stuff even Nhym. Hardleg is definitely pretty open about it as well but it shines through with MBT (and hell, he and RJ start a show every week talking about Climate Change.)
And the best part is he can start out joking about how Strike Ninja is an ethno-nationalist or he wants to suck Danny off. But then transition into a fully thought out statement about how the u.s. healthcare system fails to serve [insert niche group] like he read a textbook on the topic.
@@haruhirogrimgar6047 I fail to see how a wall in and of itself is racist, but it is kinda over the top, so I can understand people calling it crazy.
As a republican, I just want a secure border. I don't like seeing people in cages anymore than anyone else, but unless you just wanna build a bunch of cheap apartments to detain them in or some shit (which I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to; it'd cost a fair amount of tax dollars, but its better than sticking them in cages and separating them from their families), that's not going to change. Regardless of what we end up doing about that, i don't think it eliminates the need for a strong border either.
You can't just let undocumented people come into the country through the US/Mexico border when there's fucking cartels and shit constantly trying to get in and out, its a security hazard. Open boarders in that situation just expedites that problem, and you'd be doing a shit ton of harm.
@@four-en-tee A wall would do absolutely nothing to curb illegal immigration, particularly cartels.
Even now the majority of illegal immigrants here are people who are overstaying on their Visa's.
Illegal immigration isn't as big of an issue as people make it out to be. There are more issues with our immigration system itself. Horribly constraining, takes way too long to handle, ends up with our courts and public defenders being unable to keep up, all while the facilities to handle people who haven't even had the ability to apply for refugee status are so horrid the U.N. classified them as internment camps that break human rights violations. All the while we do less than the bare minimum to try to build mexico up so they don't have all these people trying to immigrate.
A substantive reform bill is needed but it seems like half the country (who have never even visited a border town/city) would start a civil war if it didn't just ban immigration from the south.
@@haruhirogrimgar6047 like yeah. it's so weird. MBT has done so much for the community, but on the other hand he's been incredibly toxic for very petty reasons otherwise. I can't bring myself to hate him, I just wish he'd do better and be a lot more self-aware.
This needs to be seen by a lot more folks than who'll se it on the Clips channel.
I recently came back to the game in 2022 and can’t believe this had to be said. I remember reading competitive articles from Doug back in 2012-2014 and my man was considered pro level
Yugitube needs a "I am not your friend" video.
Viewers are dumb and just mimic whatever you guys do and you guys react to and hang out to eachother in a very friendly way with silly jokes about eachothers skill and then viewers take that as fact. And tbh no it isn't just a bit, I hear people shit on yugitubers at locals, people will sit there and seriously discuss who are the "worst" yugitubers in terms of playing the game.
Parasocial relationships are a bitch, yeah
It's crazy how it just comes down to that: viewers get too comfortable and start thinking they can say the same shit their favorite streamer says, except viewers are complete random no-ones.
They don't know shit about boundaries.
@@deswide i mean it's understandable. It's like what happens with diehard fans of X actor/actress or band or whatever. But MUCH more informal because UA-camrs and streamers are (mostly) just guys who happened to have a camera and decided to upload shit (at least in the beginning of course)
Them being more down to earth or whatever creates this weird asymmetric bond between viewer and content creator that is like, it FEELS like a close friend because you know so much about them, but they don't know anything about you.
And from that stems all of the world's problems, from stalkers I mean STANS (ugh) to people """unintentionally""" bullying CC's the same way you'd joke around with a buddy of yours
That's why we need in general, as a society, some way to acknowledge and create awareness about parasocial shit
@@gamerule18 Tom scot dove into it in his RI lecture but yeah I feel like the platforms themselves should be made to spread awareness
Parasocialism is a curse
Based, put this on the main channel, let the people know!
MBT to Most Yugioh Players: You can make suboptimal decisions for fun. Games are about fun, it's a shame Yugioh has created a culture of such single-minded competition.
MBT to Ghostrick Players: GET BENT LOSERS I'M MAKING UDF BECAUSE I LIKE TO WIN AAAAAAAAAAAHHHH RATIO + L + UR WHITE
Deserved tbh, all 3 ghostrick players are in permanent shambles
They deserve it
Ur *wight
@@MrDanno Skull servant would be proud of this one! xd
I really enjoy watch Doug's series because even if he loses he always tries to make the episodes fun to watch. Sometimes a series can be painful to watch on Yugioh UA-cam since sometimes when a player is losing/winning they're either a sore loser or a sore winner and it makes the episode hell to watch. Some Prog episodes where Nyhmnim is winning he'll slip into that sore winner mentality and it kills my enjoyment a bit, hell even MBT in some prog playoff episodes will be a sore loser when losing. Doug whether winning or losing always makes it a fun time to watch. Idk that's my two cents on it. Not throwing shade at anyone I mention in this comment, I'm a sore loser/winner when I play any game sometimes, it happens, but off the top of my head I can't remember a time where Doug has been like that. All around chill dude.
Dzeeff is a very good competitive player, and people like that generally know better than to let losses upset them or to let wins go to their head. I agree that it leads to him being very entertaining almost all the time.
I always figured he knows it's good content to do a bit of misplaying (to the point he even made a new series about the not reading meme)
@@GanguroKonata And amongst a plethora of other reasons, the fact they literally are not allowed to interact with Chat makes it so much better than it would otherwise
I like Dzeef as much as the next guy but let's be real. Never complains? Doug conplains about his pulls practically every other episode. Now to be fair he's had some bad pulls, but he most certainly HAS been a sore loser. But that's fine. Dougs a great guy but don't paint him better than he his.
@@craigbowen9995 His tone is very light; he likes to joke-complain about his pulls/MBT's, but there's rarely if ever salt or tilt in his voice or body language.
There's a saying that goes something like "If you pretend to be stupid don't be surprised when actual idiots show up and think they're in good company". If you do something or say something as a joke or ironically that intention will not get across to everyone who hears it. Especially when making detrimental jokes or edgy jokes you have to weigh how much being funny in the moment is worth attracting annoying people.
The best way to change the tone and contents of what others around you say is to change the tone and content of your own words. This goes for places like a comment section as much as it does a professional workplace or a casual gathering. People are able to set the tone and expectations by example better than by statement.
This is a really great point, and it doubles up with another huge issue with any kind of social media. One person saying something can be a bit. Eighteen fucktillion people trying to do the same "relatably rude" bit is indistinguishable from hell.
That's just how comedy works.... part of your audience will be too stupid to understand the joke. It doesn't matter what type of comedian is being talked about, that's going to be true.
I'll just say, I'm sure a ton of people don't actually enjoy Yugioh, they enjoy winning and gain their enjoyment from that. I'm one of those people, I don't find modern YGO to be fun, it's merely a bridge to get my brain thinking and to try to outskill my opponent. That's why I think people see it from that perspective, but also coming from a content creator, you want to make the content engaging, but 99% of people don't have that viewpoint and never will. In fact, they get angry at that because they want the series to be as real as possible. For me, my viewers HATE when I do "throwing for content" or some dumb s**t in a nuzlocke because it's funny, and not because it's optimal, and that's just how people are. Last thing, is that the dissatisfied people are usually a very vocal minority, like Doug shouldn't have gotten pooped on for playing Herald, or Alex with Blackwings (albeit that should've been taken care of with a ban, not something in the series by that point though).
Hope my insight makes both sides understand and I really hope people understand it's just a game, we're all trying to have fun (outside of the hyper-comp people that prioritize tops over fun, nut you do you if you're clearly enjoying it).
The fact this happens is ridiculous. I've always thought Doug was incredible at deck building and looked up to him in a way. The main reason I loved that series is because of the personality of you two playing off of each other.
Dude he made me think Nordics looked COOL for heavens sakes, He's a God at deckbuilding.
The best part about the Doug doesn't read jokes is that I make those kinds of mistakes at least 3 times as often in decks which I play consistently not just a deck I HAD to build with only limited amounts of key cards
This do be quite literally the Call of Duty of TCGs. Doug demonstrates clearly in every video you’ve done together he’s a strong Yugioh player. I hope he can push out the morons and keep up how he does.
Doug is going to go thru his Joker arc in Saga season 3 confirmed
No one cared who I was until I put in the tears
i think that part of it is that we see chat as this monolithic entity when really its different people speaking up at different times. Chat isn't one person being a dick, its a horrifying chimera of different people with different opinions. the people complaining that doug isn't trying probably aren't the same as the people that complain that doug isn't playing fun decks.
18:00 rewatching this part after learning Gavin actively changed his decks mid episode is fucking hilarious. Like, of course Leah wouldn't Cheat.
The villain Gavin, however
Dzeef versus MBT is like pitting a doctor against a guy who got bored one night and read through every question in his Trivial Pursuit box. Dzeef almost certainly knows more than MBT and in a generalized test he'd probably win out, but when game night rolls around MBT is probably taking the win. Doug is basically getting told to learn how to play an archetype he's played against once at locals while Joseph has played every archetype in the game twice, so even if Doug is a better player overall Joseph has the advantage of not going in blind
Doug got me back into Yu-Gi-Oh with his "why nobody plays" series.
Same.
Same, he also taught me how to go up from random monster mash to a decent deck that isny purely netdecked
Same
Me too
I literally just watch it to enjoy it. When I start an episode my brain just picks a person to root for for the episode and I root for them. Why is it so hard for people to not get emotionally invested in a spinning wheel and rng packs that decide who has an advantage
"People don't act like this in any other card game"
Uh... listen I don't like this behavior either but people absolutely claim players are bad overall when they lose, regardless of what the reason is, in other card games.
I feel like one thing that makes this worse is how the yugitube sphere is quite connected so some people may see multiple content creators make jokes at each other and then just assume they can make the same jokes even though that's absolutely not the case. Friends and random people on the internet automatically have different tones.
I remember Dzeefs older videos. He had to constantly explain the exact same thing, that there is such a thing a playing casually or for fun and that you can use your god cards or old staples in these decks, but that the deck won't be competitive and you won't win a YCS with it. But that's not a problem if that isn't even your goal.
16:21 MBT is literally describing like half his own react content right here lol
Doug is the reason I play yugioh and Doug's videos taught me to deck build. Listening to Doug has never steered me wrong and I often think "what would doug do?" when I am stumped on the best way to proceed. He got me thinking in a way that allowed me to see lines and to never rely on my opponent to make a mistake or take an action to move my game forward.
MBT has great qualities and I have learned a lot from him but Doug has a way of teaching that no one else can touch.
And its because hes a damn good player!
I thought everyone was aware Master Roulette's Douglas Zeef is actually a fictional character played by Dzeeff. Same as Master Saga's D the Zeef.
As a very casual viewer I didn't realize just how much I had fallen into this mindset. This was a very needed grownup talk. Just because Yugioh is a children's card game doesn't mean we can behave like brats.
I believe Dzeef isn't the only one with that either as I think TeamSamuraiX1 is kind of in a similar boat as what Doug said because Sam also has high records, he just has a lot of passion in what he does for the most part.
At least that's what I heard about him.
I've never heard anyone bag on Sam for being bad, but I know he gets a lot of hate just because of how popular he is.
He gets a lot of hate cuz how popular he is and his contents are mostly nostalgia baiting for playing anime deck. Some people also accused him for ripping off other Yugituber's content (which I believe it's not true)
Personally i have no issue with Sam's content ( I love Duel Night) but i just don't really like his obnoxious attitude (which part of his persona tbh)
I like Sam, sometimes he is enjoyable but sometimes annoying (and closes the video in the early minutes).
.
I think Sam has a problem with his communication to his community. I don't really like his comment section because there are (mostly) people hoping for giveaway like bots. I think he should stop his GA for a while to filter "real" viewer, and make his community more alive.
@@nsiderultimaseth I thought it would’ve been for how over the top he comes across in his videos. Swear he downs multiple bangs before a video.
I think people tend to bag on Sam for his clickbait more than anything. I can somewhat understand that, but I also think Sam is never that serious with his videos, either. People need to just understand that.
I'm so happy you guys are having this conversations with the viewers. That's something I feel need to be done much, much more by streamers/youtubers. The community look up to content creators but then the CCs act to please the community, that create a unhealty situation where the community feels entitled and the CCs burn out.
Videos like this one should be post in regular intervals to call out the problems that NEED to be addressed, communication is the key to solve problems and I really feel that CCs fail into that aspect almost all the time. To make my point, just look on how many toxic communities exist that are just ignored by the CCs that either created or are the reason said community exist.
When Master Duel came out, I decided I was finally going to build Altergeist. That decision involved me hunting down DZeef’s most recent Altergeist list. If Doug didn’t make the list, I ain’t playing it.
Doug is like an excellent player. How do people forget that?
The reading memes.
My favorite parts of all you guys shows are when you missread cards or fuck up combos and POG. It’s so relateable. As a Dane i think Yu-Gi-Oh cards are so confusing to read. The shows you guys collaborate on are the best best parts of the week. ❤
Idk if he invented it but didn't Doug popularize the brilliant fusion engine? That alone puts you into the history books
...Suddenly the video where he solemnly puts his copies of Brilliant Fusion onto a wall before discussing the ban list that limited it makes a lot more sense.
I'm fairly sure it was already one of the most well known engines before dzeeff popularised it even more
Sometimes the dice just lands on 1 fellas.
I feel like Folding Ideas' new video about WoW is kind of relevant to this
to me, doug is the closest thing to a irl lil yugi we got. remember, he’s canonically better than atem
Win or lose Doug makes it enjoyable. His energy and enthusiasm no matter what is going on he is the life of the episode and it is clear he knows what he's doing for the sake of the content. Anyone who can't see that is crazy
This reminds me so much of the SmallAnt/PointCrow situation. Turns out, UA-cam commentors and TwitchViewers just suck and dont understand that just because two creators are friends doesnt mean you are their friend for watching them
Parasocial relationships are a really wonky thing - and not something people (viewers and content creators) pay enough attention to. One of my favorite streamers (Pokemon Challenges) says something like "I don't know you. If you ever start thinking I'm your friend you need to stop watching and go outside".
Pointcrow was just being a prissy bitch, don't compare that situation to this.
In the Smallant situation people were praising Smallant for how good he was and Crow got jealous and annoyed, especially when people would go into his channel and ask when their next collab was. Hell, that situation got so bad with his paranoia that he started thinking Smallant was stealing his video ideas and purposefully setting him up, it was like watching a man put on his first tinfoil hat.
Then when his friend apologizes for literally everything he did wrong as a friend and promised to be better he rejects the apology like a fucking dimwit brat.
I watched Pointcrow all the time, I've never been so infuriated with how a person can act towards the people that care about them.
This is completely different, this is the yugioh community being over competitive and shitting on him for really no reason(yes he might build boring stuff some times).
People love throwing around the world parasocial now, it has basically lost all meaning because the moment someone shows support or distain for a person it's suddenly parasocial.
The yugioh community is just very bad at having fun and older parts of the community might dislike him for his meta loving attitude he had a few years back, and now that carries over here.
@@TheArrivalCyberse you need to go outside
@@Rapainthewayitwaz he needs to arrive at the park
A clown shouldn't cry if I throw a pie at him while he's working.
This seems to be a deeper issue in the YGO community of being overly-competitive and being unable to separate "serious" from "fun"
Ikr, every chance they get they optimize the fun out of the game
I'm sure this "overly-competitive" mindset is why konami has been cashing-in so much on power creep. They're just giving players what they want: a way to rub their opponents face into the dirt!
they people will complain about them not being trying enough but then complain bout ishizu tear lmao
At least during the time I watched him, Doug seemed very condescending toward casuals and the thought of sub-optimal building. Really rubbed me the wrong way. I liked some of his takes, but could never get over this personality trait I saw.
Honestly, Rush duels are where my head is.
Rush Duel, at the very least, removes looping (all effects hard OPT) and simplifies the card text. It also removes the limits of drawing poorly for the most part by refilling your hand. It seems very casual friendly; nothing is too crazy overpowered or dominant from what I can see.
I will say just as we're on the topic. One of the main issues I had watching progression playoff is that MBT would go full tilt when playing off meta, or when misplaying (because the format is just so so different). The issue isn't that you weren't taking it seriously or were playing poorly, but that you weren't having fun playing a meme deck or while misplaying your ass off.
If Dzeef wanted to win master saga, he could have crafted the adventure engine and we would see people mald
i am a former division one athlete and current coach and yugioh just happens to be my favorite hobby.
there’s an unreal amount of variance in sports, and you can go on huge winning and losing sprees without doing anything different just due to randomness. the same thing happens in card games, unless your deck building is terrible, you’re making a lot of misplays, or you’re playing decks with huge differences in power level, it’s really not that uncommon for someone to lose 4 or 5 matches in a row, the exact same as sports. at the end of the day, this is a game and meant to be fun and it’s a real human on the other side of the screen (who seems quite nice!) that you know full well you’d never say those things to their face.
Seeing this after being a fan of Doug from when i was super into ygo 8 years ago is so upsetting. I remember getting super excited to see how he would update Altergeist and his Subterror builds. He is a genius and far from terrible like people make him out to be.
One day dark Dzeef comes out with "Commenters don't understand how much better I am" where he plays meta against MBT and "Why nobody plays Burning Abyss" against Farfa talking like an anime villain, who held back his final form.
I found all your channels simply because I was feeling depressed one day, remembered the anime and deciding to see if anyone did videos. I suck at the game, and don't really understand half the cards. I stuck around because people like you (MBT), Gage, Alex ect. were just fun personalities to watch. History of Jank is my fav because of how ridiculous the decks are and the very fact that you guys don't take it seriously. Its just a fun game between friends with some awful cards for the sake of having fun, and I love that. Reminds me of playing as a kid and not understanding the rules at all, but still having a blast. People just take things too seriously sometimes when they are really invested in an idea or group of people, and that really sucks. Anyway, just wanted to comment and let you know i appreciate the work you all do, cheers
Genuinely I think a very big reason for the vitriol around the DPE thing is because of Master duel. Also another really big issue is that master duell has made everyone think that they could be competitive because they got to platinum. A lot of people are just unaware of the really big differences.
Exactly this. Master Duel is 1) a bad format since it is best of 1, and 2) most people are REALLY sub-optimal players on there. That tends to happen just due to statistics.
Yeah I’ll say it openly I’m a fairly mediocre player who goes 50/50 at best at locals but I have something like and 90%+ win rate on master duel just because I happen to have a passing understanding of popular decks and most of the time you are playing people who don’t take the 5 seconds to read what your cards do and loose to themselves 😂
@@ducky36F I'm only 60% winrate on MD just due to the sheer fact that you can lose to literal trash at any moment. I have at least 10+ losses over the months of playing just from Numeron using LS + Kaiju/Golem. The cheese just gets me all the time. My luck is poor. :(
I am not the best at Master Duel. I have a rather low win ratio, I've only gotten to platinum once but that's mostly just because seeing the same deck every other duel is genuinely annoying to me. I have a good understanding of how the game works, I have a good knowledge of a bunch of different archetypes because of the fact that before I started watching Yugitubers and I played Legacy of the Duelist and forced myself to look at a bunch of cards and read. I had no idea what the hell they did but I forced myself to figure it out. The biggest reason that I lose is because of the fact that I don't play meta ever because it's a dirty word that means that I stop having fun. I play shit like graydle-kaijus and infernoids because it more fun for me to play stupid bad stuff. One of the of the really big reasons why I like MBT so much is because he plays a very wide variety of things and it's not just let's play meta episode 596. He like a lot of Yu-Gi-Oh UA-camrs understand the importance of throwing for content because that is very important in UA-cam especially gaming UA-cam. He also has a good understanding of the fact that winning is not the most important thing it's how you enjoy yourself which is something I think a lot of people on the internet need to learn and remember. I generally think this video is more important for a lot of people who play Yu-Gi-Oh to see because I feel like on the road to winning a lot of people forget why they enjoy doing this in the first place and they end up quitting the game after they've won. I feel like everyone including myself has fallen into that Trap. I feel like one of the few good things that came from me starting Yu-Gi-Oh with Legacy of the Duelist is that I have a good understanding of losing a lot because my hand was bad or I'm not that good attack building or whatever reason it was at the time and it gave me a good place to just improve by myself without comparing it to what everyone else is doing because that can genuinely change your play style a lot which can very easily cause you to just not enjoy it. I completely understand that losing is frustrating for a lot of people and not a lot of the time people will absolutely avoid losing at any cost if they can. Genuinely I'm kind of just in love with the fact that a lot of people on master duel play really random funny decks that are bad but enjoyable. It's one of the biggest reasons I haven't completely abandoned it.
I separated this off from the rest of this rant because I'm voice typing and I want this to be the primary point that people see. It genuinely impresses me that people are able to make something like Yu-Gi-Oh their career and not get sick of it. It takes an astounding amount of self resolve to not see all the s*** that people say about how you play and about what you're doing and still continue to do it. Yu-Gi-Oh UA-camrs and UA-camrs in general who make content about one thing will always impress me no matter what happens because it's a lot. I genuinely thank them for what they do and for giving me content to watch when I'm up for no reason at 3:00 a.m..
Anyway that's the end of my rant. I literally kind of just word vomited this for no reason. I wanted to make a somewhat normal comment first before I did this that way people wouldn't be scrolling past and click read more and then suddenly their screen would be full of the ramblings of this narcissist. Whoever's reading this I hope you have a wonderful day if you got this far.
I don’t think this is true, every UA-cam comment or pretending they play optimally always predates MD by a long time
As far as Doug goes, I can understand the he is a very capable competitive player. What is frustrating regarding his sealed series performance is that the majority of his negative results within his control are just caused by carelessness. I don't know if its being on camera, or if he feels he needs to keep up a rapid pace, or maybe he needs to devote too much attention to commentary/banter to play well. Whatever the reason, he seems to consistenty refuse to read cards, read cards properly, or take an appropriate amount of time to think about the results of his moves before he makes them.
His series with MBT has 100% been favoured towards whoever won the first episode, so that's by no means his gameplay that causes some losses. However, of the losses he does have control over they are consistently careless mistakes. Straight up "i'll just assume this card does nothing", only to walk into an anime-esque "you've activated my card's special ability!" which he just didn't want to find out about beforehand.
I like Doug's content, and I have nothing against him personally. I'm just highlighting the reasoning behind why people get fired up about his gameplay. I'll watch his series regardless, 15 weeks of Fabled or not :)
Backseating comes from a deep need to feel like you are better than the person you're watching.
Its not that deep, people just look at whats happening on screen and their brain starts thinking.
@@luminous3558 their brain starts thinking, which leads them to thoughtless behavior?
@@hi-i-am-atan yep :D but dont do the armchair psychology thing and be like "oh they want to feel better because blah blah blah". its really not that deep
@@ich3730 pardon
@@luminous3558 Actually wrong. People like watching other people fail. That is one of the biggest audiences for streaming.
I would love for Doug to just have an LTG moment and remind the chat that he’s the entertainer they’re just names on a screen. Would be incredibly warranted as of late lol
It’s really weird when a streamer leans in to what is obviously a joke for a little too long and the community starts taking it way too seriously. I see it happen all the time. It’s why it’s super weird to use dark humour online sometimes because you start to get people that actually believe the things you’re clearly joking about.
The problem is, many...frankly to many viewers do not realize that what they watch, ys even streamers, is a persona. Its an act they put on to get views. So in many cases, people take things far to seriously.
this video actually resonates with me on a deep level. i desperately try to avoid playing meta as much as i can by playing stuff that doesn't require a spreadsheet because, quite simply, i am not a good player at all. i've been disheartened by the state of the game, and all alternate formats end the same with me (I try it out, get curb stomped endlessly, give up and sulk) and it just drives a huge wedge in my love for the game. a recent example is me wanting to play pacifis with a bunch of 2k atk level 4 vanillas in MD, but the sheer amount of things happening on my screen forced me to run every relevant handtrap AND skill drain to even breathe, let alone play.
i genuinely feel out of place when trying to play yugioh, unless i play by myself via one of the video games, but playing yugioh alone is as depressing as losing 100% of the time. i just don't know what to do anymore, and i sincerely don't want to quit this game. i've been around since day 1 in 2002 and i'd hate to tap out now with all these awesome new cards and supports for strategies i used to love playing...
so hearing you have similar issues with how the game is perceived currently kinda, as cheesy and lame as it sounds, opened the floodgates and i just had to pour my heart and soul out.
Play duel links. Or format format.
It's crazy how hard it is for communities to be friendly, kinda, and respectful
This is incredibly important and personally I think your right the community feeds off of being toxic and it's awful. I appreciate you taking the time to set people right. Keep doing what your doing man this anything you guys have done has been awesome. Thank you!
This is a really interesting topic. I personally come from a Vanguard community, and it is very common to see people playing decks that dont win very often, and I’ve seen those people get criticized for not playing the best deck or the optimal way to build that specific deck, thus being called bad players or being not taken seriously. People don’t seem to understand that
1. Not everyone enjoys playing competitively, maybe my deck is bad, but it is what I enjoy playing
2. Not because you play a deck that doesnt win often means that you are a bad player, I know really good players that don’t play meta or top tier decks just because they don’t enjoy them.
3. The fact that a person keeps switching to top tier decks and keeps wining because of that doesn’t necessarily mean that they are good players either, there can be a good player playing a bad deck and losing and there can be a bad player playing a top tier deck and winning just because the deck basically plays itself.
In the end looks like people tend to forget that before anything competitive, card games are meant to be fun, and you should be able to play whatever you enjoy first. I believe that when a community becomes more competitive is when the fun for the casuals ends, you end up playing against people that only plays what wins and end up having a not so enjoyable time because of that. Maybe you don’t like meta, maybe you can’t afford it or maybe you have other reasons. But you should never be criticized for playing what you like and having fun while doing it.
This video resonated with me and put a lot of what I've been feeling lately into words. When I started playing I played whatever deck I thought was cool and had fun labing jank garbage all the time. Over time I felt shamed into taking the game more and more seriously, and now I collect cards because it's fun to test hand but playing has become so exhausting I don't even go to locals anymore. Yu-Gi-Oh needs more pure fun formats, I've tried building a cube for the first time and it's the most engaged I've been with the game in years.
Doug, was a huge fan of and player for Altergeist, my 1st competitive deck since returning to the game. It will always have a special place for me, and he encouraged the use of the deck to the joy and detriment of the playerbase.
‘You wouldn’t see this in any other cardgame’
You would and you do.
Yeah, that was a pretty bad take.
post at least 10 links that support your statement.
@@Auditor1337bruh name me 10 card games period.
Great video, hope lots of folks get to see this.
tbh I'd love a series where yugitubers just play tryhard with constructed decks that they're familiar with. Would provide contrast against the fun series.
Also insane to me that people actually think Doug is bad when he says things like "Don't worry, chat, I see the line" before T-set passing.
I am another person who would love to see that series. Don't know if it matters to you, but you are not alone there
Master Conquest is here!
12:20 I think some part of it here is that people genuinely don't understand that you guys are friends. They see you as content creators who sometimes work on things together with the assumption being that that's all business, so when people see you ribbing at him or dunking on him, they don't think "Oh they're friends and this is banter" they think "Wow, these are the honest and unfiltered opinions of MBT, I guess this other guy really does suck!"
It’s unfortunate that, much like a review, people tend to comment because they feel the need to vocalize frustration or distaste while those that enjoy are more likely to just leave a like.
It’s sad to see people not seeing fun in the series. I’m a casual at yugioh and more into magic and watching you guys try to make the best of what you got is really fun. I really hope things go better for you guys, it might be better to just not read comments and go based off views for a while.
When I watch Doug and mbt play I just see people who are friends playing casually for fun
The first results you get when looking up a Doug feature match is him getting second and third place at pretty big deal events. Actually incredible
It's not a yugioh thing, it's a "people on the internet can safely be a-holes" thing. Every video/stream is gonna have those types of people, there's no stopping it. Watched a video about cute hamsters where they addressed the insanely aggressive comments about them "not raising their hamsters correctly".
He reads memes of other people making fun of doug and gage on stream, and laughs with the meme
I think a big part of this is generally how these shows are presented and the whole formatting of it. It’s a “show” with “score” and “hosts” that “compete” against each other. The reason a series like jank bank doesn’t get this kind of shit is because they simply are not presented in this format it’s just MBT fucking around using decks that like, three people total globally know how to use. With series like Saga, Prog, Roulette, Playoffs, they present it with a whole intro reel and scoreboard which makes the commenters and viewers take it way or seriously than intended. I’m not gonna say the commenters don’t also have a responsibility do take these series with a grain of salt but it should be expected that if you put elements of what’s basically a two person reality tv series, that these kinds of emotions will come out of people
"He reads the cards he wants to read" - me saying something that genuinely applies to Doug Zeef
I think people hear MBT and Farfa dunking on Gage and Dzeef and roasting them for their mistakes and think that they, complete strangers, have a free pass to shit on these content creators because it's funny and everyone laughs when the funny internet man does it, not recognizing the context that these people are doing it to make jokes at the expense of their *friends* who they have a lot of respect for.
And that's a difficult line to walk. As a content creator it's really hard to engage in that kind of humor and not have your following take it too far. You need to keep your community on a really tight leash, and even then, there's always going to be clueless people just wandering in and not realizing that they don't have the right to be an asshole.
Same thing happened with Markiplier and his friend Wade. Wade wound up being the butt of jokes and the community thought they had a right to say the same things Mark and Bob did out of context to the point he had people shouting "shut-up Wade" at conventions. I don't know why people think riffing on someone you don't know is okay.
I really enjoy these new longer clips on this channel
"you wouldn't see this in any other card game"
Actually a lie. In peak hearthstone days the average casual player would probably say kripp or reynad was the best player ever. Even once firebat won the first worlds
Great video! Definitely a fan of covering this topic and hope to see more discourse on it.
The casual problem is why the most fun I had in Master Duel was the N/R format, and why I want Rush Duels to be localised so much.
Same hahaha
N/R was so great because I'd get cooked by the goofiest deck ever, and then just craft it and try it for a few games to have fun before getting cooked again.
How is it possible it was fun... Did only 4 matches and 3 of them were aganst timelord
@@lorenzomassetti2699 sorry to hear,you had that experience, but most people thought it was the best festival. Maybe you played when people were just farming missions.
@@lorenzomassetti2699 i wish we had faced each other. I had a monstrosity of Magistus/Shaddoll deck that had to use an equip spell to fusion. Top tier fun was had when i wasn't facing specifically dinomist, metalfoes, or timelords.
Actually a great explanation of it, I started streaming like a year ago and had to stop interacting with some people who were in my community for the whole time because they’re just toxic to me, also had to end a short series literally 4 weeks in because it was just so unfun seeing how rude people were, thanks for articulating it like this
7:30 this right here is exactly why I pivoted from Yugioh to Magic the Gathering. Despite being an arguably much more expensive game at competitive formats and tables, I am perfectly able to play a budget deck of the gameplay, archetype, color, mechanics and/or tribes I want and have a decent shot at a commander table. It's an incentive to keep playing. When I was playing yugioh, it seemed like investing in cards and decks because you simply like them is worthless and a waste of time and money. I just truly wish yugioh had a true casual format, people take everything so seriously in this game.
"Its impossible Leah Playoffs pulled 2 secrets!"
Mbt Roulette: like its hard?
I think a big issue is that because the game is really only taken seriously in paper and Konami makes no effort to stream games nor are the top/most popular players in close proximity to each other and people (for good reason) don’t stream their play testing. The community never really gets to see these high level players playing against each other in a serious environment with good decks, so by proxy these non constructed serious get looked at through a scope of perceived competitiveness rather than a fun series. People lose sight of when you all are actually “trying” vs trying to just make entertainment.
Wow I got this recommended. I didn't even realize it was a different channel of yours, definitely post it on the main channel, this is so important
Yea, just wanted to chime in. I've been watching Doug for years now and he's always been one of my favorite YugiTubers. Those of you who may not be as familiar with him, just know that Joseph is spot on, Doug is a super intelligent guy and is indeed good at the game despite what some of the silly mistakes or missplays may have you think.
Just remember that this is a game with over 10,000 cards and when you are saddled with random cards from a random pack(s) you may not always play at your best or see all the potential lines...
Also, as mentioned, sometimes stomping your friend with something even resembling meta in a series that is meant to be fun and ridiculous just isn't what it's about. Go watch someone try-harding on YGO Omega or something instead.
I feel like the point about Yu-Gi-Oh players not being able to grasp the concept of playing a sub-optimal Deck goes beyond just UA-cam, as well. Personally, I've had people at a couple different locals give me shit when my Deck loses, trying to tell me half the cards in my Deck are bad and that I'm stupid for not running X card or playing Y expensive meta-relevant Deck. I feel like one of the best parts about Yu-Gi-Oh is the freedom to play any Deck you want thanks to its massive card pool, but so many people are only tunnel-visioned into seeing about 5-10 different Decks as playable, and every other Deck as unplayable garbage. And although Speed Duel and Sealed events occasionally come up where I am and I find myself having a blast whenever I can play them due to the lower pressure, at the end of the day Advanced Format is where most people are and although it's certainly not everyone in the community that acts in this way, this hyper-competitive mindset is really prevalent, and I wish people could understand that some people just wanna play for fun and don't care about how well they do, just that they be allowed to play and have a good time. Thanks for getting this message out there, because I think a lot of players really need to hear it.
It's funny that Josheph says that he doesn't know where does this attitude come from when is kinda obvious.
Like, there is so many content creators that put this toxic persona in front of the camera, that talk how the game sucks, this player suck and your mama sucks that sooner rather than later they just fostered a toxic community and act surprised once things turn out like this.
This being said, i feel sorry for Dough but also i gotta be honest and as an spectator by the third time he bringed Fables to saga i was so out of it because seeing one sided matches are not fun nor entaiterning to witness
Honestly, this is great. Shine light on this. I get all communities will have toxic people, but as a whole we should strive to build each other as players. The locals scene should be your yugioh family, and we should always be willing to build each other up with that. If they’re losing maybe help them see mistakes they made in a constructive manner. Idk I stand for what MBT is saying here.
As an MtG player, this mindset is so strange to me. The clear delineation of formats and format types had always made it clear to me that some players are just better than others in certain environments. I'm a significantly better limited player than I am a constructed player (though, arguably that's because I don't play online and don't want to pony up the cash for a good deck so I stick with "good deck at home"), and it's always seemed to me that MBT is just a good limited player - he has the proper mindset for it, and it's kind of hard to expect an opponent to have that proper mindset if the only format is constructed.
The not understanding fun thing is also something that's weird for me - in commander, players often talk about making their decks WORSE if they make them too good. Commander was intended to be casual, and people like having decks of roughly the same power level as their playgroup. Honestly, like MBT said, the problem is the lack of other formats in yugioh, and that's something I think should change. Until then, go play some junior journey or something, get a broader perspective on things.
Yeah I mostly play sealed for Magic and having switched over to commander man am I just bad at it. The different formats all bring unique challenges. I guess if there is only one format things can get sweaty.
Thanks for making this video MBT. It needed to be brought up. It sucks that most of the people watching probably don't comment and enjoy the fun you guys bring to the table while the commenters manage to ruin. Hope Doug sees the support from all these comments. Keep doing what you're doing guys!
i dont think people realised that doug actually topped ycs like twice, top 4 at one point which is much higher than anything they have achieved in the ygo space
i’ve literally pointed out how impressive his tops are in the comments and how the series nature inherently gives a huge advantage to MBT given the nature of his channel and still had people try to argue he’s a bad player
@@Aaronrules380 I mean... he doesn't exactly read his cards, I couldn't name an episode where he played without messing up each combo several times, some times because he just didn't take a look at the text.
Anyone with money can realistically top a YCS, get a meta deck, practice it and then get lucky. Yugioh is incredibly static, your combos only change if the opponent has a specific deck that your usual field can't 100% deal with, even then you might just switch one part of the combo.
The hardest part of yugioh is buying the deck and traveling to the tournaments.
@@TheArrivalCyberse a bunch of Doug's tops were with rogue decks, not meta decks
This is a really important vid and I hope Doug sees it. Much love
It's a unique problem with yugioh considering we are the most ape like tcg of all time. We are the dude bros of neets.
To elaborate a little more, like, look at dkayeds community. Idk about other tcgs, but from what I've seen of his chat, it feels like a frat house ran by seto kaiba. Distant coder is very high energy and silly. **farfa** . Theres a level of immaturity that permiates the community, me included, I'm in every yugioh video complaining about how expensive things are, I am not immune to this effect but I still see it happening.
Mbt touches in this effect PERFECTLY all on his own, this clip is solid gold.
I have not seen a Dkayed chat but I have seen a few of his viewers behave in some situations where they believe everything he says even if it's not really true.
@@DarknessDpa nah that's about the go of it from what I've seen. He's probably not even that bad, but his fanbase creates this wall around him that naturally gatekeeps wanting to be around him and his community.
I have only just happened upon this video and it's eye opening with the hindsight of knowing that Doug is taking time off now for mental health.
I think there needs to be a huge distinction made here between playing for fun, intentionally throwing, unintentionally throwing and playing to win.
If you play for fun, you still want to win, you just lower your odds a bit via choosing a "bad" deck example not playing tear rn in TCG or OCG.
Totally fine, everyone understands it and nobody should give anyone shit for this.
Making missplays is something very natural and nobody can completely avoid it, especially when playing odd decks they aren't used to like in limited series.
If you feel the need to point those out then at least be respectful and keep in mind that nobody knows every deck, also most yugitubers really don't care about that info as they will likely never bring those decks to a competitive event.
Every card game format besides EDH requires a certain amount of "playing to win" so that its fun for both players.
Intentionally throwing games(as in deliberately missing lethal to extend a match etc) because "haha its just a game, we are playing for fun" is where it gets iffy.
OFC nobody does this in yugioh youtube series but this is where the "nothing matters its all just fun" argument can lead.
Things can be competitive without being toxic. We don't have to choose between mega no fun allowed sweat zone and just putting cards on the table.
Also obviously younger viewers and people who don't know better will just jump on those criticising comments and write their own even less polite comments when they see the whole comment section filled with them.
Maybe talk about this at the start of roulette for a few weeks and try to get at least the ones that are willing to listen to change.
My first exposure to yugioh content was History of Jank. I’ve since started following a bunch of other series, like Roulette, Prog, Saga, Guess that card, Ruling Quiz, etc. and have never understood the comments section. Some of my favorite content on UA-cam used to be Pokémon Draft Leagues, where content creators draft teams of Pokémon and battle friends with an assortment of 6 of those drafted Mons. I loved seeing the creativity in sets and play styles varying based on matchup.
Where I’m trying to go with this is that sealed series like Prog and Roulette especially fit in the same vein to me, and I come back every week because of the creativity of the creators and your personalities. I don’t understand why EVERYTHING has to be about wins and losses. There’s a ton of value in jokes, watching a fun match, and seeing different people’s takes on deck building that I feel as though gets largely ignored in these series.
I have no issues with Master Saga. The issue I have with Master Roulette is that there are weeks where Dzeeff seems to hardly understand the deck that he's using. As a viewer, I'm not looking for full knowledge of the deck, but I would like for whoever the pilot is to look like they at least tested their deck a few games to understand and somewhat optimize their deck. I think people enjoy watching duelists playing well with bad/limited decks, but people really dislike watching duels with poor play regardless of quality of the deck and that's the issue that I have with Master Roulette. Doug makes mistakes in Saga, but he seems competent with the deck that he brings in most weeks so I don't have a problem with misplays.
They record the opening and then deckbuild and play in Roulette. So obviously no time for testing. This makes sense for their current setup and schedule.
Maybe a better way to handle it would be to spin the deck selection roulette at the end of the previous episode(can still edit it on the start of the new one) and then record pulls separately and play next week so both players have the option to test a bit.
honestly as someone who not only doesn't watch yugitube all that much (if at all) but also doesn't comment/read comments really at all I was surprised to hear that Doug has even won a game at all, honestly he always seemed entertaining and a cool guy in the videos of his I've seen but I've literally never seen him win (I always just attributed it to poor luck on camera), I have a newfound respect for him now (not that I thought he couldn't have schooled me before lol I know I'm bad)
theres a method behind the fabled madness!
I think this is like watching sports or wrestling. You want to see your team win, whether they are better actually or not, and you also want to see it in a fun way. It's the reason I didn't enjoy watching the Patriots football team win all the time. They were good, but not always fun/entertaining for me. I appreciate that Doug is focusing on having fun and messing up plays rather than being the best player. In my opinion that's why Doug's content is some of the best right now.
I love hearing MBT just talk about shit sometimes, I am just so entertained by how we speaks
Doug and his content are a huge part of why I got back into yugioh as an adult after playing as a child, and it really sucks that some people can't understand that a series of videos are mostly for fun
MBT seems to be fairly good with pretty much every archetype, like a jack-of-all-trades, while Dzeeff is great with all the top/meta decks, but isn't as good with the lesser known archetypes. That puts Dzeeff in like a 50/50 spot with MBT. He'll either get a meta pack he knows and be able to play it really well, or he'll get a pack he's barely even seen, and won't know the best way to play the deck
But it also just depends on what cards they pull. We've seen MBT pull good holos from almost every pack, and Dzeeff will get 3 random from outside the pack that he can't even use. At the end of the day, just let them have fun and enjoy the content. Yeah it's a "competition" but it's not as fun if they're both try-harding every week