done both. Vermiculite can be made smooth if finished properly. if water gets behind your liner with the grout bottom it will float much more easily. Also any loose pieces of grout are sharp. when the liner is replaced you will appreciate that vermiculite can be bonded to with patch material or even another thin coat of vermiculite. Vermiculite should be put in by master craftsman and don’t assume you can do the installation if you’ve done concrete or other type of flat work.
To each his own, but all the comments about pool vermiculite are incorrect. Get the mix correct and it's very easy to put down, is smooth, and hard enough to walk on. It's Portland cement and ground up cork. It wont flake. It can be dented if you try. It's porous which is supposed to help let water under liner escape. When you replace liner, there will be mold mildew algae, whatever and you will patch some, but no big deal. Once i found the correct amount of water per batch, very straight forward. I used vermiculite that already had cement added. Just add water. Bottom line, for DIY, a great choice. If using a pool contractor, listen to their advise.
I agree. I tried finding the right mix. I googled it and did a lot of research. I found someone online that is supposed to be an expert who also did a similar video. His website had instructions for the vermiculite mix, which I followed to the T. It turned out horrible. I spent a lot of money buying the products and had to go over it with the mortar. This was my first time as a DIY person. I consider myself pretty handy and able to figure things out but this part was just terrible. There are pre-made vermiculite mixes on the market, but I could not find any sold locally in Utah and shipping for the 70 bags needed was a small fortune so I decided to make my own Vermiculite mix from the 'experts' and it was a complete waste of time and money! Maybe I should have made small mixes and experimented first, but I assumed the experts were right!
@@wompus44 I am currently building a pool and am almost to the Pool Base part, I live up in Cache Valley (Northern Utah) and I'd be very grateful to get some more info with the direction you took on your poolbase if you have time. If you do, I'll shoot you my email.
@@wompus44 Well I would love to Hire this process out, but I have no idea where to even look for a crew to do it, I'm sure if I called a pool contractor they would give me the run around because I'm doing most the process myself!
I’m a vermiculiter and my pools look like your mortar. If you don’t have your water ratio right and everything you won’t get a good finish. I could send you hundreds of pictures.
Do not ever use chicken wire eventually it will come though and pop through the liner like a scolding hot razor knife going through melted budda. FORGETABOUTIT but honestly great video I watched the whole thing.
So I made a pizza oven and was told that vermiculite can't get wet or becomes very brittle. I want to do an inground pool but we have high ground water tables. Can I still use it or not?
You don't want a smooth finish with vermiculite. It should be porous so the the liner can push into it, vs sliding over it when the water is in it. If the vermiculite is smooth like you would do a patch in concrete, it will work like sand paper to the liner, as the liner will minutely move.
Is grout or mortar hard like concrete? Because we're in PA and was told not to use concrete I guess because of the cold weather and contraction and expansion which may lead to cracking. Is grout or mortar resistant against this cracking? Is vermiculite also resistant to this?
@@piedmontproducts i goto the dollar store and buy 10 big bottles of cheap soap depending on how bags of premix pool base are in the mixer l use about a half a cup per 4 to 5 bags depending on how much the mixer holds add it slowly or you'll get foam from hell its basically the same stuff concrete suppliers sell just cheaper and smells better been doing for years makes bottom super smooth with minimal effort
@@snyderkurtis palmetto pre mix pool base get it from pool builders supply in Greensboro NC . It's available on line but holy cow on the price and then there's the shipping getting ready to do an 18x36 in couple of weeks
Getting ready to do my pool next week I’m also a do it yourselfer first time pool builder have you had any issues since dropping the liner in and what state are you do you get cold weather? I was planning on using a grout mixture do to cost.
I'm in Utah, no issues with the 2nd liner (long story). Honestly, I would hire out the concrete work in the bottom with a company who knows how to do it, either grout, vermiculite mix or gunite.
Slabs would move more from the weight of themselves and water pressure vermiculite would compress down past the slabs and you'd have a line and a big bump at those spots I have tried and it cost me $$$$$$ to repair
I'm not an expert by no means. I would say if you have a vinyl pool you could use a concrete patch, mortar, or some leveling cement. Basically the cement is there just to give support for the liner. Also, you want it to be level as possible so lines don't appear in the liner, but that's just to your taste.
Oh I'm sure people can do way better. It was my first time working with cement really and boy it was not easy. I'm a handy person but this didn't go on easy. I really should have gotten some help on this to get the mix right.
You dont know how to towel. Built 400 inground pools. We only used v mix. The concrete mix you get out concrete truck is a liner killer because it has sand and small stones and it get hard.
Well when I need my pool redone, I'll be calling you! Yes, this was my first time, that was my point. First time DIY'ers I would recommend they contract it out or get some experience first!
Lol, This is why amateurs shouldn't make how-to videos. When your mortar cracks, which it eventually will, it will be a sharp edge that will rip the liner. Further, vermiculite is more forgiving on your feet when walking in the pool but also on the liner. Mortar is like sandpaper no matter how smooth you get it, and when the liner expands and contracts, it will cause premature liner failure. Finally, vermiculite is porous allowing the passage of water. If you ever get groundwater with vermiculite, it will push out through the ground with mortar. It will float your liner and will cause headaches. Getting the wrinkles out frequently or worse having to reset the liner. Everyone should stick with vermiculite or sand bottom pools. Mortar is not a cheat code. We don't use it for many reasons
Your vermiculite looks like that due to a poor mix and a terrible trowel job. It's not like painting, takes a bit of skill and a good eye. Vermiculite is hard when mixed right and is porous to let water through. Mortar is not the right product to use and you NEVER EVER put any wire in a pool base. Your pool dig should have been shaped better and you should be using string lines when you vermiculite to have nice straight sharp lines and also make sure your inner dimensions are damn near spot on for liner fitment. I have a few videos on my channel that show how vermiculite is done.
No offense bud. After this project I realize I hate concrete, but as someone who is pretty good at DIY stuff, this was hard to tackle as a first time project. I would recommend hiring someone to do the bottom cement of the pool.
Wrong wrong wrong!!!! You should not tell people wrong information because of your bad installation of vermiculite. Vermiculite is the best pool bottom to use period.
You are going to have to learn a hard lesson that everyone who's built a pool or replaced a liner has to learn. Vermiculite is far and away superior. You mixed it incorrectly and have no clue how to trowel.
![HOW TO MIX LIME MORTAR [Bricklaying for beginners e.p 6]](/img/n.gif)
done both. Vermiculite can be made smooth if finished properly. if water gets behind your liner with the grout bottom it will float much more easily. Also any loose pieces of grout are sharp. when the liner is replaced you will appreciate that vermiculite can be bonded to with patch material or even another thin coat of vermiculite. Vermiculite should be put in by master craftsman and don’t assume you can do the installation if you’ve done concrete or other type of flat work.
To each his own, but all the comments about pool vermiculite are incorrect. Get the mix correct and it's very easy to put down, is smooth, and hard enough to walk on. It's Portland cement and ground up cork. It wont flake. It can be dented if you try. It's porous which is supposed to help let water under liner escape. When you replace liner, there will be mold mildew algae, whatever and you will patch some, but no big deal. Once i found the correct amount of water per batch, very straight forward. I used vermiculite that already had cement added. Just add water.
Bottom line, for DIY, a great choice. If using a pool contractor, listen to their advise.
I agree. I tried finding the right mix. I googled it and did a lot of research. I found someone online that is supposed to be an expert who also did a similar video. His website had instructions for the vermiculite mix, which I followed to the T. It turned out horrible. I spent a lot of money buying the products and had to go over it with the mortar. This was my first time as a DIY person. I consider myself pretty handy and able to figure things out but this part was just terrible. There are pre-made vermiculite mixes on the market, but I could not find any sold locally in Utah and shipping for the 70 bags needed was a small fortune so I decided to make my own Vermiculite mix from the 'experts' and it was a complete waste of time and money! Maybe I should have made small mixes and experimented first, but I assumed the experts were right!
I should have hired you. I followed the advice of pool experts and my mix was terrible, but I didn't know any better!
@@wompus44 I am currently building a pool and am almost to the Pool Base part, I live up in Cache Valley (Northern Utah) and I'd be very grateful to get some more info with the direction you took on your poolbase if you have time. If you do, I'll shoot you my email.
@@whiterockinc.1913 sure, I'd help in anyway, just know, though, I'm no expert😉
@@wompus44 Well I would love to Hire this process out, but I have no idea where to even look for a crew to do it, I'm sure if I called a pool contractor they would give me the run around because I'm doing most the process myself!
What are you thinking she UK old be the rough amount to mix vermiculite. For my understanding concrete crack in cold season
I’m a vermiculiter and my pools look like your mortar. If you don’t have your water ratio right and everything you won’t get a good finish. I could send you hundreds of pictures.
Well it's too late now. One thing I'd change is instead of doing the pool bottom myself, I'd hire out to someone like you!
You are correct sir. Vermic takes practice and skill to do right and it is used because it is porous
and it’s designed to be textured and porous also underneath is the concrete base the v mix is perfect for liner applications
Do not ever use chicken wire eventually it will come though and pop through the liner like a scolding hot razor knife going through melted budda. FORGETABOUTIT but honestly great video I watched the whole thing.
So I made a pizza oven and was told that vermiculite can't get wet or becomes very brittle. I want to do an inground pool but we have high ground water tables. Can I still use it or not?
yeah that is all in the mix for vermic. Premix pool base? Some times the premix bags are different consistency.
Hey now that it's been a year are you still glad you went with the motor instead of the vermiculite?
You don't want a smooth finish with vermiculite. It should be porous so the the liner can push into it, vs sliding over it when the water is in it. If the vermiculite is smooth like you would do a patch in concrete, it will work like sand paper to the liner, as the liner will minutely move.
Is grout or mortar hard like concrete? Because we're in PA and was told not to use concrete I guess because of the cold weather and contraction and expansion which may lead to cracking. Is grout or mortar resistant against this cracking? Is vermiculite also resistant to this?
Been doing vynil pools for years I always add dishwashing soap to the vermiculite spreads way better and smoother
How much do dishwashing soap per mix do you use?
@@piedmontproducts i goto the dollar store and buy 10 big bottles of cheap soap depending on how bags of premix pool base are in the mixer l use about a half a cup per 4 to 5 bags depending on how much the mixer holds add it slowly or you'll get foam from hell its basically the same stuff concrete suppliers sell just cheaper and smells better been doing for years makes bottom super smooth with minimal effort
@@johnnysouth4982 thanks!
@@johnnysouth4982 what vermiculite do you use?
@@snyderkurtis palmetto pre mix pool base get it from pool builders supply in Greensboro NC . It's available on line but holy cow on the price and then there's the shipping getting ready to do an 18x36 in couple of weeks
Getting ready to do my pool next week I’m also a do it yourselfer first time pool builder have you had any issues since dropping the liner in and what state are you do you get cold weather? I was planning on using a grout mixture do to cost.
I'm in Utah, no issues with the 2nd liner (long story). Honestly, I would hire out the concrete work in the bottom with a company who knows how to do it, either grout, vermiculite mix or gunite.
Personnaly, i think i would use grout or concrete and make a slab at the deepest end and the shallow end....then use vermiculite to shape the slopes.
Slabs would move more from the weight of themselves and water pressure vermiculite would compress down past the slabs and you'd have a line and a big bump at those spots I have tried and it cost me $$$$$$ to repair
I need to patch some part of the low end. Could you tell me if I need to do the entire pool? Or can it be patched?(low end)
I'm not an expert by no means. I would say if you have a vinyl pool you could use a concrete patch, mortar, or some leveling cement. Basically the cement is there just to give support for the liner. Also, you want it to be level as possible so lines don't appear in the liner, but that's just to your taste.
@@wompus44 thanks you
wompus44 what kind of transit is that? Where could I get one?
Strange for I've seen much better work with vermiculite than what he did.
Oh I'm sure people can do way better. It was my first time working with cement really and boy it was not easy. I'm a handy person but this didn't go on easy. I really should have gotten some help on this to get the mix right.
What kind of transit is that and where can you get it?
go to poolwarehouse.com, they sell that transit there. Sorry, just saw the reply!
Ziplevel i believe i wanna try one
I just tore my liner out its hell underneath
I've been building pools for over 30 years, vermiculite the way too go, n no chicken wire, get the water n mix right, don't over mix,
I'll hire you next time
What is your mix /ratios?
@@maddygoodwin1896 pre,mixed now, was 45lb Portland to 16lb vermiculite
You dont know how to towel. Built 400 inground pools. We only used v mix. The concrete mix you get out concrete truck is a liner killer because it has sand and small stones and it get hard.
Well when I need my pool redone, I'll be calling you! Yes, this was my first time, that was my point. First time DIY'ers I would recommend they contract it out or get some experience first!
My pool people are using vermiculite but there are many peaks and valleys, he said he can't get it real smooth, should I be worried?
tell me you aren't a pool installer, without telling me you aren't a pool installer
Exactly. This "information" is not only useless, it's detrimental
Lol, This is why amateurs shouldn't make how-to videos. When your mortar cracks, which it eventually will, it will be a sharp edge that will rip the liner. Further, vermiculite is more forgiving on your feet when walking in the pool but also on the liner. Mortar is like sandpaper no matter how smooth you get it, and when the liner expands and contracts, it will cause premature liner failure. Finally, vermiculite is porous allowing the passage of water. If you ever get groundwater with vermiculite, it will push out through the ground with mortar. It will float your liner and will cause headaches. Getting the wrinkles out frequently or worse having to reset the liner. Everyone should stick with vermiculite or sand bottom pools. Mortar is not a cheat code. We don't use it for many reasons
Your vermiculite looks like that due to a poor mix and a terrible trowel job. It's not like painting, takes a bit of skill and a good eye. Vermiculite is hard when mixed right and is porous to let water through. Mortar is not the right product to use and you NEVER EVER put any wire in a pool base. Your pool dig should have been shaped better and you should be using string lines when you vermiculite to have nice straight sharp lines and also make sure your inner dimensions are damn near spot on for liner fitment. I have a few videos on my channel that show how vermiculite is done.
Your vermiculite mix is obviously wrong and your finishing skills as well, no offense.
No offense bud. After this project I realize I hate concrete, but as someone who is pretty good at DIY stuff, this was hard to tackle as a first time project. I would recommend hiring someone to do the bottom cement of the pool.
You mixed it wrong 😂🤣😂
How dare you question a professional homeowner 🤣
r u a pool builder or diy
DIY. I found a pool builder on youtube who seems very reputable and used his formula and it was garbage!
@@wompus44 im trying to repair my dads vermiculite bottom. Were you following Steve?
Wrong wrong wrong!!!! You should not tell people wrong information because of your bad installation of vermiculite. Vermiculite is the best pool bottom to use period.
Lol, yeah if you like settled spots dents and don't have a pool light. Also you better like to patch or re-coat every liner change...
Chicken wire is this guy for real
huh no comments
You are going to have to learn a hard lesson that everyone who's built a pool or replaced a liner has to learn. Vermiculite is far and away superior. You mixed it incorrectly and have no clue how to trowel.
that’s because you don’t know what your doing lol.