I used to work for Sig EO. The 4T & even more so the 8T have an absurd battery life. I don't know what I can and can't say, but 100k hrs is an understatement. Big understatement. They're both essentially unkillable, too. Good review.
So can you tell me by chance if the 4T is currently a Holosun parts kit assembled here or is it like the 8T with the housing made in the US, Japanese glass and S Korean emitter? Don’t want a rebranded Chinese optic. The whole assembled in USA can be confusing wether it’s US and some foreign parts or just a full blown Chinese kit Assembled here.
@@Berserkable The 4T actually fits your criterion better than the 8T does, as it had to be Berry compliant otherwise it'd be a no-go for any .GOV customer. And the Bureau(s) have been (or at least were) quite happy with their "4M", which, to oversimplify, is a 4T minus solar panel. In general, the reason why the ****expensive**** SIG dots cost more than their comparable competitors is the high standards the Electro-Optics division holds its' suppliers to, for *those* products, and the rigorous inspection criteria they undergo by hands-on SIG employees during final assembly and inspection. The whole design culture around the more expensive products was to make things that were unkillable, and that you, the employee, would feel comfortable using in a life or death situation. In this age, I see very little reason to purchase an Aimpoint. The ONE thing they do better than everyone else is extreme submersion ratings. And I doubt you'll see many civvies exiting submarines anytime soon.
@@Nuke-China as with any procurement, exemptions for certain countries, or if you pay the right people enough, or if you were first to the market. Aimpoint has a unique combination of at least two of those things...
They look like a spider web to me, I didn't even know I had an astigmatism until I looked at a red dot because otherwise I have above average vision and just thought that's how lights looked to everyone.
I been telling people that ROMEO 8T is the EOTech killer! The nightvision points are valid but that notwithstanding, the 8T reticle is super crispy and the battery is amazing. I'm not too big on fuzziness of EOTech. I put an 8T on my Virtus 300 BLK and it has lots and lots of premarital sex. Highly recommend!
Plus the durability is a cut above the EOTech, see FocusTripp's review where he dropped it so many times on rocks from 20 or so feet and less, did have any issues with it, nothing broke. EOTech he had broke on second drop, albeit still useable but glass broke.
Yeah the fuzziness is a general issue with all holographic sights, so the point doesnt apply to just eotech. The 8t wont kill eotech, it will hurt aimpoint another reddot company though.
Nope. Looks amazing but not something to replace EOTECH. I love my EOtech so much but if I had a different setup I’d go with something like an AimPoint or other. I love the ability of using AA batteries,the huge window, and the reticle make EOTECH king of CQB. Holographic sights also make them king when it comes to durability. You can have the glass shot out and it will still work and they are truly parallax free or very close to it. It’s on an 11.5 home defense pistol so I just want something I can put on a bad guy fast and pull the trigger. Probably why all the actually cool dudes who do actually cool things seem to commonly run eotech on their Mark 18’s.
@@user-mj1vb8jr6j This has the exact same reticle and window size w/o holographic fuzziness and way better battery life. I don’t see EOTech having any significant advantage other than name recognition and heritage. That’s just me tho.
@@johnhagy4601 Fair enough. It’s just hard for me to see the advantage of EOTech. I’m a regular guy so maybe pro end users have a different perspective but the objective stuff still stands.
I actually did quite a bit of digging to find out how "made in america" these dots are. the text below was originally posted to reddit and I'm not reformatting so sorry about that Some of you may remember a post a few weeks ago where the question was asked sig romeo 4s good enough for FBI? and much screeching followed about whether or not the 4Ts are good optics and where they are actually made. I was curious and wanted to know the actual answer but despite how absolutely certain everybody in the comments was that they knew for a fact where the optic was made, nobody could show me anything to prove what they were saying. I can't let a question go unanswered so I spent way too much time in the last few weeks looking into it. I figure I may as well share what I learned. Sig has done a really bad job getting good info about their optics out into the world and that isn't helped by the fact that they bring out new lines and slash old ones every 15 minutes. Lets get some facts out to start with and I'll explain further The 4T is not Japanese components assembled in the US The 4T is not holosun components assembled in the US The Barry amendment doesn't have anything to do with optics, guns, vehicles or anything except prison slave labor textiles (and crye or whatever I guess) I scoured 1933 Buy American Act rules, their federal contract with the Navy and FBI, import logs, every UA-cam video and every forum post I could find on here, arfcom and everywhere else. I found this this .mil webpage that appears to be a military specific guide to navigating the current Buy American Act requirements as they relate to Military spending and I found this useful. I think the biggest source of confusion here is that the 4T used to be made 100% in China and shares quite a bit in terms of features/aesthetics with the Holosun 515 series. What I found in my research is that there is no legal way for sig to use mostly imported components in anything that they sell to the feds. Even from friendly countries. If an imported component is used they have to show that it is unfeasible to get that component from the USA. China and especially Chinese state owned entities (like Huanic that makes Holosun and a handful of Sig optics) are explicitly disallowed. At the end, I just reached out to Sig and asked because I wanted confirmation of my findings and got the answer Everything besides a single circuit board are made in America. And based on the DFARS rules, that single circuit board would have to be made in Japan. They're the only SE Asian country on the "qualifying countries" list. This means Sig is doing better even better than the most fervent defenders of the optic on that post were saying. Even making their emitters etc. in the US.
Recently OpticsPlanet had the 8T for sale, 560$. Too good to pass up...I was very impressed with the durability of the Romeo 8T when I saw FocusTripp dropping it from 20 feet in the air onto rocks below and from less height with minimal damage and it still worked perfectly.
I was a 240 gunner. 77 lb of 7.62 rounds combat load (1100 rounds). A clunky helmet, sometimes (most missions were done at night since hajjis cant afford nods) with a pvs 14 (a pound or two?). Web gear (~5 lbs). Ranger body armor with two ballistic plates (~25 lb). Two canteens, camelback, and a spare bladder full of water (~10 lb). An M9 pistol loaded and a spare mag (~2 lb). A couple of grenades (~2 lbs). 3 30 rounds of 5.56 (some firefights we all run out of ammo). A SAW nutsack. And of course the 27 lb M240B medium machine gun with an optic. I dont recall ever complaining about how heavy the optic was. I dont think complaining about anything was allowed in the old US Army.
The Romeo 4T was my first real rifle red dot and it's been flawless. I really like it. That being said, I have T2s on all my training rifles now and the 4T is sitting on my MPX for now.
@@romang6437 Yes, just because it's an Aimpoint (lol) and it's on a Scalarworx mount. I think the T2s are a little more proven and the standard. But if you can find a good deal on a 4T it's certainly a great optic.
Same. It’s a solid combo. Only complaint is the blue tint affects clarity with magnifier. Interesting that sig advertises the blue tint as a military grade notch filter. I can’t tell if blue tint is supposed to be a premium feature or clearer glass lol. The T2 and Romeo 5 are both very clear and on opposite ends of the spectrum.
@@zachbartlett2829 I didn’t buy it as a combo in the same box. I bought them separately - 2 different boxes, but it was on the same day at a Sig store in Florida. Still shoots the same, I just picked the RDS and magnifier I wanted.
@@zachbartlett2829 They might not, my bad if there was any confusion. I don’t know if there’s much difference between a 4h and 4t besides the mounting hardware, I don’t ever plan on taking it off my AR.
I’ve been running a 8t basically since it came out (got it at the sig pro shop after a attending a sig academy class). Other than it’s obvious weight and size issues, it outclasses all other red dots I have, including the higher end holosuns and aimpoints. I really do think that it is the best red dot on the market right now if you can deal with the size, weight, and cost of the thing.
I have the Circle Plex version shown on the right at 1:06. It looks crystal clear through a magnifier and costs $50-100 less than the standard dot on every variant of the Romeo4. I wish more reviewers would cover it as it's a unique option that sets to Romeo4 series apart from other red dots.
@@jayfoster850 bit of an odd spot in the market as Hop said. If you have to have an American optic that's rugged (20m submersion rating/7075 housing) and don't care about Night vision at all it's fine. Some owners are reporting that the blue tint is gone on new models but mine still has it. If you don't need the ruggedness you could get the Romeo4h (Sor43012) for ~260 if you look. The glass is less tinted but the reticle gets noticeably brighter as you move your head rightwards. The cross shaped reticle is the big selling point to me, otherwise I would have bought an AEMS
Just to belabor Hop's point on assembled, I can get a fully coated, ground, and polished lens from China for less than the Chinese equivalent material at volumes over 20 units most of the time. Sometimes that's for a 10th the cost of the glass for Parts or Schott equivalent unfinished blanks, all for a very minimal transmission hit way down in the blue/people party of the spectrum and no noticable quality difference in polishing. Under the right circumstances out might make sense to coat a commercial grade optic here too. The price break on mechanics isn't that much but the quality state side is usually much higher. Machined and assembled here gets you solid bang for your buck, if you want to buy American.
I got a Romeo 5X (the R-5 that uses a AAA battery) for my AR I just built, per Hop's recommendation, and I am extremely happy with it (for the use-case of being budget-conscious and not using NVGs or magnifiers). Especially after buying a TRS-25 for my brother's hunting rifle and comparing. No tinted color, no noticeable distortion, it's just nice and transparent. It's hard to even keep both eyes open with the TRS, though it's fine for the money, especially for hunting or for non-combat-oriented guns like a .22lr or slug gun.
I really wish Eotech would put the motac features on their holographic sights if anything just to fight the battery life inadequacy. Sig really has some good features with the 8T.
@@TheHouseAlwaysWins-xs8zd patent law is another issue I believe. I think some company has some piece of paper that means other people can’t copy them. Also, Trijicon gets around this by just always having the dot on and never having to change the battery (hyperbole, but you get the point).
It sounds like a good idea but is only useful for home defense because in a vehicle it would drain your eotech instead of save it. It also adds just one more failure point. Especially in a lazer emitter that draws far more power than an led. As a result it puts more strain on the internet circuitry. I would rather it remember the last brightness setting you used so you can just hit one button and bam it's up and running. Because honestly the two medium settings it can turn on with are never bright enough for me. However that feature would have a similar issue in terms of long term reliability to that of shake awake.
You must have been reading my mind as I was just starting to look into the 8T seriously. You answered all of my questions on the optic and how it compares.
Decided to build a fat AK - GF5 PSA stripped AK47 (barreled receiver basically), Sureshot Mk3 chassis, Zenitco RK-1 foregrip, KPYK folding stock, US Palm pistol grip, ALG trigger, Romeo 8T, Lantac Dragon ASR muzzle brake (modified with a dremel to cut out a slot for the detent pin, not sure why they didn't do it themselves). Shoots like a dream but a lil chonky.
The only thing that holds the EXPS back is battery life, but I don’t use that optic as my go to night gun. That privilege goes to the T2. I still think that EXPS is king for combat optics. 1000 hours battery life is 41 days of it staying on straight. Doubt it takes anybody that long to run an operation to get chocolate milk from their mother’s fridge.
7:57... "my chosen load" 😆🤣 ..hop is awesome ,and seriously great video. sig is becoming 1 of the best all around pro 2a companies in history.. I always try to support them and buy their stuff when I can. America is super exceptional
Thanks for the review! Been a huge fan of Sig's optics. Their Romeo 5 has been my go to optic for most builds without having to double the cost of the build, ha! Love seeing the EOTech style donut of death making an appearance.
Regardless of performance, I just can't see putting a 1lb brick on my rifle. Holosun has the right idea with the AEMS. That sight seems to be in the Goldilocks zone with size & weight.
For reasonable passive NV aiming, I like my Trijicon SRS. Yeah, it's big, bulky, and heavy, but the FOV is excellent and I got it under for under $300. Wish they still made them, they aren't all that bad.
Hop I'll be honest with you. I can't understand your thought process half the time but I'm barely a gun guy so keep doing what you're doing man. The videos you create are interesting at the very least, even if I don't understand the full utility of them. Godspeed & Carry on.
Considering you can get a Romeo 4t well under $500 it's definitely worth it for a duty grade optic. Duty grade definition being an optic actually currently in duty from a government agency
@@AnAxetoGrind except these aren’t Chinese products. There was an article that claimed the Romeo 2, 4T and 8T source zero parts from China. I believe it does use Japanese and S Korean parts along with US parts.
ive owned this optic for 2 years now, pretty solid, Fast reticle and i like its clarity with magnifyers 😁 Main complaints is the the barely noticeable clicks on the adjustment dials making zero a pain and the mount does not always return to zero 🤕 Im kinda spoiled with nice LPVOs and Scopes i guess but i think a dot at this price range should have better adjustments.... even my Aimpoint Pro has better adjustment dials 🤕
@@Hoplopfheil The “quad plex” reticles models usually sell for cheaper. For what it’s worth the center dot and hold dots are allegedly 1 MOA and 0.5 MOA respectively compared to 2 and 1 MOA of the circle dot.
@@Hoplopfheil MSPR is high but there are, or at least were, several vendors that sold it for around 400. I think Proven Arms & Outfitters still have it for around that. Though it might've been with mil discount.
@@xlightning79 I’ve tried both and actually prefer the quad plex. Win for me since it’s usually around $350. I also enjoy having a slightly smaller dot under magnification.
The 8t plus magnifier is roughly as heavy as a vortex razor Gen 2 plus Badger ordnance mount, which is definitely noticeable and really heavy compared to a t2 plus magnifier
You could mount James' c9 as a foregrip for 3 more ounces. Way more style. Tracers in the c9 can be your tertiary sight. The Hi Point c9 and tracer rounds are 'Murica sourceable.
From what I've gathered, Sig's microprocessors are likely sourced from Taiwan and the glass is similarly outsourced. The fact that Taiwan's sovereignty is challenged right now is likely part of the reason why the DOD hasn't adopted the 8T as an optic despite its inclusion on Sig's offerings (XM5 and XM250) for the NGSW program; its not as dependable as EOTECH in terms of future availability. For non-DOD personnel, I think the 8T is a fantastic choice for a SHTF scenario. The weight of an EXP3,1-2 back-up CR123 batteries, plus furniture that will let you keep them handy on your rifle will add more weight than the 8T will. I'd imagine that the EOTech would be the go to if you're using a Suppressed/NV/Vehicle focused build, whereas an 8T might be better choice if youre just opting for a GPR.
These are all good options and I've used most of them accept the 8T...I might have to change that. BTW, the Juliet 6 mag is a nice option in my book. I really like the ability to flip out for 1X over spinning a bezel ring as I find acquiring a target with a 1X red dot much quicker and intuitive, and clearer.
So, I love my 4T, holds up great, BDC matches my gun and load pretty well, but the NV criticism is on point. Yeah, passive aiming is possible, but only just and because my tubes have high enough performance to pick up the dulled image. If I had worse tubes, it’d be a struggle. With L3s new supergain tubes, maybe we will change how we use passive aiming devices though.
I noticed the Juliet4 magnifier does not have a centering feature between the optic and the mount. The fit (prior to tightening the screws) between optic and mount is loose ... So there is a high chance that that the magnifier will not be parallel to the rail when you tighten down the screws. The problem magnifies when you swap out or add the included spacers.
Have the same problem but with the juliet 6. Had to retighten the screws over and over very carefully. In the end I could not get it to match up with my Eotech Exps2. Either the spacers were not tall enough or too tall. Hop is right now I run the same brand magnifier and have no problems.
I'm still leaning on the primary arms little prism.. Has that etched reticle that still works without the batteries, and it's so much smaller/ lighter/ and cheaper..... Not sure how it would work with a magnifier though.
If you can get them to match up to anything, yeah that would help. If you want to get subsonic 300blk out past 75 or so yards you're really gonna want something.
In my opinion, it's probably not worth the effort to fret overmuch about a red dot's NV capabilities. A red dot is an optic that you can keep in your safe for ages and pick it up and it's still on. It's for the "always ready" situation for defensive purposes, like home or base defense (in the case of military and law enforcement). Red dots are also good for truck guns and patrol cars where you're not likely to have your NODs handy. However, if you're using night vision, this is for a specific mission or (most likely) for the occasional LARP from time to time. In that case, just get an EO Tech that is shit for battery life and put it on a rifle whose sole purpose is for LARPing (or, I guess, missions if you're actually an operator). In that case, you don't need to worry about battery life. It only needs to keep running for the duration of your mission, training, or LARP session. But for your home defense or base defense weapon, put a red dot on it cause the use case for that is you'll need to use it in a scenario where you don't have time do don you NODs, BUT if you for some reason CAN don you NODs in response to an active attack, then it COULD perform, in a pinch, if needed.
The additional BDC dots of a eotech -4 are fit the best for a 14.5'' AR with about 2600fps with M855, while the ones on the Romeos are optimal for 20'' AR. Having a 16'' or 16.75'' might do better bdc wise with the romeos. Would be nice if that quad reticle with the cross hairs could be switched to just a dot since that one has a 1 moa dot instead of 2 with the other reticle.
I absolutely love my juliet3 micro and juliet 4 so much. When I got the 4 I immediately sold my eotech magnifier which is overrated garbage.... Imo..... And now saving up for the chonky 6.
I just sent my magnifier back to vortex because behind my romeo 5 it turns my dot into a diagonal slash. I literally sent it off 10 minutes ago and then I watch this video because I was thinking of a romeo 8H with a romeo 5 magnifier and you're the first person in all my research about the issue that I've heard mention the slash instead of dot. Dammit.
I don't have the 8T but the 8H as at the time the 8T was unobtainium, only difference is the lack of shroud and flip cap bits (and the price, like $200 less). Paired with an Aimpoint 3X-C magnifier on my 12.5 it works great for the type of shooting I do. It's a bit of a thick bitch and the lack of adjustability with the mount is a drawback but it does everything I expect from a red dot or holo with the clarity and consistency I want.
As an LPVO user I don't really have a say in the matter, but I always thought magnifying a red dot was a bad idea because, unlike a holographic, your zero changes drastically if you mag it. I chose a first focal plane LPVO specifically to combat this. Is that just fake news or are we assuming you zero at full magnification and just kinda wing it with close enough at short range?
You know most people won’t admit it, but it’s rather nice to be a poor, I don’t ever have to worry about my optics, lights working with NV or any of that nonsense. one can buy a non NV model of an eotech for lower cost and pretend to not be poor and only the NV guys will know you’re poor.
I got the 8t for $539 total which sold me. Paired with vortex 3x micro. Vortex has a QD so you dont have to keep it on the rifle all the time. I bet you can shed a bit of the weight by removing the shroud, but ruggedness suffers.
I have a Holosun HE512C-GD which is very similar to the 8T in form factor. An I like the idea of the 8T but normal red dots don't work for me. Honestly the Holosun Gold Dots are the only "red dots" that work for me in bright sunlight because I'm color blind. (An yes I've looked through aimpoints.) Nothing else even comes close in terms of brightness. However Eotech still wins in terms of brightness even though they're red in color. But the short battery life and lack of shake awake on holographic optixs still pose enough of an issue to go with a gold dot. I just wish they made a pistol optic in a gold dot variant. I'd love a 509T and 507K with a gold dot.
Also interested to know: Romeo 4T/8T vs Primary Arms 503G or MD-25 both with and without magnification. I have a 503G and the glass is amazingly clear and the chevron, circle, and dots are super crisp, almost as if they are etched into the glass.
Hey Hop im not sure if you'll see this or even care but i spent the last +18months using and messing with the 8T having it on the circle dot on the highest brightness setting and finally killed the battery. Its not scientific but its definitely says something to the battery life
I picked up my Romeo 4T for $390 from a drop shipper online. At the time I wanted an “American made” (assembled) red dot and I had already been disappointed by the Trijicon MRO for reasons Hop has covered on this channel. Does it do anything more than some of the Holosuns I have? Not really. I’m not concerned that 6061 aluminum is going to get me killed in the streets so 7075 is sort of lost on me. I will also echo what Hop says here and say that if you want to use those ballistics hold overs then get a magnifier, they’re damn hard to see clearly otherwise. Overall it has been a good optic, the mount it came with was decent, and the dot is crisp for me even with my astigmatism. Would I get it again? Probably not, I’d probably get an Aimpoint Duty, but that wasn’t available when I bought the 4T.
Being a cnc machine operator that works with aluminum, 6000 series aluminum is FAR softer than 7000 series, with 7075 being the best for many high strength low weight applications like aircraft (it is called aircraft grade for a reason) and is great for firearms and firearm accessories as it wont completely dent in to the point of being useless from a small drop. 6061 and 6063 on the other hand are incredibly soft, and are best suited for use as heat sinks and other applications where there is no danger of being damaged.
Without watching the video, I’m just gonna go by the thumbnail and assume it means they’re either genuinely good or it’s scathing sarcasm
Wow, assuming it’s either good or bad. How did you EVER figure that out???😂
@@justinsmith9135 Reading comprehension is hard, it’s okay
@@riskyflash6812 So is punctuation. It’s okay.
@@AJohnSmith Should have told that to the founding fathers.
It's Hop... you don't even need the thumbnail to come to that realization. It's basically a foregone conclusion at this point.
I used to work for Sig EO. The 4T & even more so the 8T have an absurd battery life. I don't know what I can and can't say, but 100k hrs is an understatement. Big understatement. They're both essentially unkillable, too. Good review.
So can you tell me by chance if the 4T is currently a Holosun parts kit assembled here or is it like the 8T with the housing made in the US, Japanese glass and S Korean emitter? Don’t want a rebranded Chinese optic. The whole assembled in USA can be confusing wether it’s US and some foreign parts or just a full blown Chinese kit Assembled here.
@@Berserkable The 4T actually fits your criterion better than the 8T does, as it had to be Berry compliant otherwise it'd be a no-go for any .GOV customer.
And the Bureau(s) have been (or at least were) quite happy with their "4M", which, to oversimplify, is a 4T minus solar panel.
In general, the reason why the ****expensive**** SIG dots cost more than their comparable competitors is the high standards the Electro-Optics division holds its' suppliers to, for *those* products, and the rigorous inspection criteria they undergo by hands-on SIG employees during final assembly and inspection.
The whole design culture around the more expensive products was to make things that were unkillable, and that you, the employee, would feel comfortable using in a life or death situation.
In this age, I see very little reason to purchase an Aimpoint. The ONE thing they do better than everyone else is extreme submersion ratings. And I doubt you'll see many civvies exiting submarines anytime soon.
@@memph1ston "it had to be Berry compliant otherwise it'd be a no-go for any .GOV customer."
How do we acquire aimpoints then?
@@Nuke-China as with any procurement, exemptions for certain countries, or if you pay the right people enough, or if you were first to the market. Aimpoint has a unique combination of at least two of those things...
@@Nuke-China imports from allies are BC
For those wondering, the red dot view at 1:00 is what the dot looks like with astigmatism (at least for me with corrective contact lenses)
That's what it looks like without your glasses on
They look like a spider web to me, I didn't even know I had an astigmatism until I looked at a red dot because otherwise I have above average vision and just thought that's how lights looked to everyone.
I feel that brother
red dots look like a candle flame to me
During that clip, I thought to myself "Hop's camera has astigmatism!"
I been telling people that ROMEO 8T is the EOTech killer! The nightvision points are valid but that notwithstanding, the 8T reticle is super crispy and the battery is amazing. I'm not too big on fuzziness of EOTech. I put an 8T on my Virtus 300 BLK and it has lots and lots of premarital sex. Highly recommend!
Plus the durability is a cut above the EOTech, see FocusTripp's review where he dropped it so many times on rocks from 20 or so feet and less, did have any issues with it, nothing broke. EOTech he had broke on second drop, albeit still useable but glass broke.
Yeah the fuzziness is a general issue with all holographic sights, so the point doesnt apply to just eotech.
The 8t wont kill eotech, it will hurt aimpoint another reddot company though.
Nope. Looks amazing but not something to replace EOTECH. I love my EOtech so much but if I had a different setup I’d go with something like an AimPoint or other. I love the ability of using AA batteries,the huge window, and the reticle make EOTECH king of CQB. Holographic sights also make them king when it comes to durability. You can have the glass shot out and it will still work and they are truly parallax free or very close to it. It’s on an 11.5 home defense pistol so I just want something I can put on a bad guy fast and pull the trigger. Probably why all the actually cool dudes who do actually cool things seem to commonly run eotech on their Mark 18’s.
@@user-mj1vb8jr6j This has the exact same reticle and window size w/o holographic fuzziness and way better battery life. I don’t see EOTech having any significant advantage other than name recognition and heritage. That’s just me tho.
@@johnhagy4601 Fair enough. It’s just hard for me to see the advantage of EOTech. I’m a regular guy so maybe pro end users have a different perspective but the objective stuff still stands.
I actually did quite a bit of digging to find out how "made in america" these dots are. the text below was originally posted to reddit and I'm not reformatting so sorry about that
Some of you may remember a post a few weeks ago where the question was asked
sig romeo 4s good enough for FBI?
and much screeching followed about whether or not the 4Ts are good optics and where they are actually made. I was curious and wanted to know the actual answer but despite how absolutely certain everybody in the comments was that they knew for a fact where the optic was made, nobody could show me anything to prove what they were saying. I can't let a question go unanswered so I spent way too much time in the last few weeks looking into it. I figure I may as well share what I learned.
Sig has done a really bad job getting good info about their optics out into the world and that isn't helped by the fact that they bring out new lines and slash old ones every 15 minutes.
Lets get some facts out to start with and I'll explain further
The 4T is not Japanese components assembled in the US
The 4T is not holosun components assembled in the US
The Barry amendment doesn't have anything to do with optics, guns, vehicles or anything except prison slave labor textiles (and crye or whatever I guess)
I scoured 1933 Buy American Act rules, their federal contract with the Navy and FBI, import logs, every UA-cam video and every forum post I could find on here, arfcom and everywhere else. I found this this .mil webpage that appears to be a military specific guide to navigating the current Buy American Act requirements as they relate to Military spending and I found this useful.
I think the biggest source of confusion here is that the 4T used to be made 100% in China and shares quite a bit in terms of features/aesthetics with the Holosun 515 series.
What I found in my research is that there is no legal way for sig to use mostly imported components in anything that they sell to the feds. Even from friendly countries. If an imported component is used they have to show that it is unfeasible to get that component from the USA. China and especially Chinese state owned entities (like Huanic that makes Holosun and a handful of Sig optics) are explicitly disallowed.
At the end, I just reached out to Sig and asked because I wanted confirmation of my findings and got the answer Everything besides a single circuit board are made in America. And based on the DFARS rules, that single circuit board would have to be made in Japan. They're the only SE Asian country on the "qualifying countries" list.
This means Sig is doing better even better than the most fervent defenders of the optic on that post were saying. Even making their emitters etc. in the US.
Recently OpticsPlanet had the 8T for sale, 560$. Too good to pass up...I was very impressed with the durability of the Romeo 8T when I saw FocusTripp dropping it from 20 feet in the air onto rocks below and from less height with minimal damage and it still worked perfectly.
I was a 240 gunner. 77 lb of 7.62 rounds combat load (1100 rounds). A clunky helmet, sometimes (most missions were done at night since hajjis cant afford nods) with a pvs 14 (a pound or two?). Web gear (~5 lbs). Ranger body armor with two ballistic plates (~25 lb). Two canteens, camelback, and a spare bladder full of water (~10 lb). An M9 pistol loaded and a spare mag (~2 lb). A couple of grenades (~2 lbs). 3 30 rounds of 5.56 (some firefights we all run out of ammo). A SAW nutsack.
And of course the 27 lb M240B medium machine gun with an optic.
I dont recall ever complaining about how heavy the optic was. I dont think complaining about anything was allowed in the old US Army.
The Romeo 4T was my first real rifle red dot and it's been flawless. I really like it. That being said, I have T2s on all my training rifles now and the 4T is sitting on my MPX for now.
So do you prefer aimpoint t2 over 4t?
@@romang6437 Yes, just because it's an Aimpoint (lol) and it's on a Scalarworx mount. I think the T2s are a little more proven and the standard. But if you can find a good deal on a 4T it's certainly a great optic.
I love your no BS reviews! It's hard to find that these days. Keep it up! Subscribed! 👌
Information so clean crisp and fat free it makes a starving African look like an American metrosexual.
I have the Romeo 4T and Juliet 4 combo, it’s a very nice set up!
Same. It’s a solid combo. Only complaint is the blue tint affects clarity with magnifier. Interesting that sig advertises the blue tint as a military grade notch filter. I can’t tell if blue tint is supposed to be a premium feature or clearer glass lol. The T2 and Romeo 5 are both very clear and on opposite ends of the spectrum.
You bought it as a combo? I have the 4h combo where the 4h is black like the 4t, but its still a 4h. I couldnt and cant find a 4t combo anywhere
@@zachbartlett2829 I didn’t buy it as a combo in the same box. I bought them separately - 2 different boxes, but it was on the same day at a Sig store in Florida.
Still shoots the same, I just picked the RDS and magnifier I wanted.
@@mikem2132 gotcha. I was just curious, i have the 4h as an actual combo and didnt think they sold the 4t as an actual combo
@@zachbartlett2829 They might not, my bad if there was any confusion. I don’t know if there’s much difference between a 4h and 4t besides the mounting hardware, I don’t ever plan on taking it off my AR.
Excited I picked up a 8T for $550 during memorial day! Thanks for the review Hop!
Thanks
I’ve been running a 8t basically since it came out (got it at the sig pro shop after a attending a sig academy class). Other than it’s obvious weight and size issues, it outclasses all other red dots I have, including the higher end holosuns and aimpoints. I really do think that it is the best red dot on the market right now if you can deal with the size, weight, and cost of the thing.
I have the Circle Plex version shown on the right at 1:06. It looks crystal clear through a magnifier and costs $50-100 less than the standard dot on every variant of the Romeo4. I wish more reviewers would cover it as it's a unique option that sets to Romeo4 series apart from other red dots.
Is it a newer model? I've also wondered about it but don't know m Much about it
@@mr.c.3760 I think it's been around for a while. Sig used the same cross shaped reticle on the Romeo6 as well before they discontinued it.
How are you liking it? I found one on sale for sub-$400. Would it be worth investing in?
@@jayfoster850 bit of an odd spot in the market as Hop said. If you have to have an American optic that's rugged (20m submersion rating/7075 housing) and don't care about Night vision at all it's fine. Some owners are reporting that the blue tint is gone on new models but mine still has it. If you don't need the ruggedness you could get the Romeo4h (Sor43012) for ~260 if you look. The glass is less tinted but the reticle gets noticeably brighter as you move your head rightwards. The cross shaped reticle is the big selling point to me, otherwise I would have bought an AEMS
Just to belabor Hop's point on assembled, I can get a fully coated, ground, and polished lens from China for less than the Chinese equivalent material at volumes over 20 units most of the time. Sometimes that's for a 10th the cost of the glass for Parts or Schott equivalent unfinished blanks, all for a very minimal transmission hit way down in the blue/people party of the spectrum and no noticable quality difference in polishing. Under the right circumstances out might make sense to coat a commercial grade optic here too. The price break on mechanics isn't that much but the quality state side is usually much higher. Machined and assembled here gets you solid bang for your buck, if you want to buy American.
I got a Romeo 5X (the R-5 that uses a AAA battery) for my AR I just built, per Hop's recommendation, and I am extremely happy with it (for the use-case of being budget-conscious and not using NVGs or magnifiers). Especially after buying a TRS-25 for my brother's hunting rifle and comparing. No tinted color, no noticeable distortion, it's just nice and transparent. It's hard to even keep both eyes open with the TRS, though it's fine for the money, especially for hunting or for non-combat-oriented guns like a .22lr or slug gun.
The Romeo 5 fucks, especially at that price point.
I absolutely LOVE the Romeo 5 XDR. Now I want an 8T!
I really wish Eotech would put the motac features on their holographic sights if anything just to fight the battery life inadequacy. Sig really has some good features with the 8T.
@@TheHouseAlwaysWins-xs8zd patent law is another issue I believe. I think some company has some piece of paper that means other people can’t copy them. Also, Trijicon gets around this by just always having the dot on and never having to change the battery (hyperbole, but you get the point).
It sounds like a good idea but is only useful for home defense because in a vehicle it would drain your eotech instead of save it. It also adds just one more failure point. Especially in a lazer emitter that draws far more power than an led. As a result it puts more strain on the internet circuitry. I would rather it remember the last brightness setting you used so you can just hit one button and bam it's up and running. Because honestly the two medium settings it can turn on with are never bright enough for me. However that feature would have a similar issue in terms of long term reliability to that of shake awake.
Thanks for providing the Hop style reviews. As I move into night vision, your reviews help a lot.
Been waiting for an 8T review that’s current. Thanks Hop.
You must have been reading my mind as I was just starting to look into the 8T seriously. You answered all of my questions on the optic and how it compares.
Your VDOs are top shelf. Thanks - you're a wealth of knowledge.
This is the best weapon/attachment analysis channel on youtube.
Decided to build a fat AK - GF5 PSA stripped AK47 (barreled receiver basically), Sureshot Mk3 chassis, Zenitco RK-1 foregrip, KPYK folding stock, US Palm pistol grip, ALG trigger, Romeo 8T, Lantac Dragon ASR muzzle brake (modified with a dremel to cut out a slot for the detent pin, not sure why they didn't do it themselves). Shoots like a dream but a lil chonky.
The only thing that holds the EXPS back is battery life, but I don’t use that optic as my go to night gun. That privilege goes to the T2. I still think that EXPS is king for combat optics. 1000 hours battery life is 41 days of it staying on straight. Doubt it takes anybody that long to run an operation to get chocolate milk from their mother’s fridge.
7:57... "my chosen load" 😆🤣 ..hop is awesome ,and seriously great video. sig is becoming 1 of the best all around pro 2a companies in history.. I always try to support them and buy their stuff when I can. America is super exceptional
Thanks for the review! Been a huge fan of Sig's optics. Their Romeo 5 has been my go to optic for most builds without having to double the cost of the build, ha! Love seeing the EOTech style donut of death making an appearance.
Day is good when you see new video about optics from hoplofheil
Regardless of performance, I just can't see putting a 1lb brick on my rifle. Holosun has the right idea with the AEMS. That sight seems to be in the Goldilocks zone with size & weight.
Look at Hop, reviewing HIGH-END optics!
Cheap hand guns, expensive optics. That's Hop's wheelhouse.
For reasonable passive NV aiming, I like my Trijicon SRS. Yeah, it's big, bulky, and heavy, but the FOV is excellent and I got it under for under $300. Wish they still made them, they aren't all that bad.
Hop I'll be honest with you. I can't understand your thought process half the time but I'm barely a gun guy so keep doing what you're doing man. The videos you create are interesting at the very least, even if I don't understand the full utility of them. Godspeed & Carry on.
Another awesome review! Thanks for sharing and please keep up the good work!
I liked the Romeo 4t up until I got into nv and ended up going eotech. What you said about the 4t matches what I was seeing as well.
Love your reviews! You are BRUTAL!!
If you do make that larger magnifier video you should include the G45
We need a review on the newly introduced Romeo 4XT PRO - please. Specs look very interesting.
Considering you can get a Romeo 4t well under $500 it's definitely worth it for a duty grade optic. Duty grade definition being an optic actually currently in duty from a government agency
Very much looking forward to a potential magnifier video!
Always great!! Thank you.
Sig Sauer is becoming a monopoly. Mostly for good reason.
@@AnAxetoGrind except these aren’t Chinese products. There was an article that claimed the Romeo 2, 4T and 8T source zero parts from China. I believe it does use Japanese and S Korean parts along with US parts.
I don't know if I'd say it's for a good reason, I just think SIG is good at throating the way they suck off the governments cock for contracts lol
ive owned this optic for 2 years now, pretty solid, Fast reticle and i like its clarity with magnifyers 😁 Main complaints is the the barely noticeable clicks on the adjustment dials making zero a pain and the mount does not always return to zero 🤕 Im kinda spoiled with nice LPVOs and Scopes i guess but i think a dot at this price range should have better adjustments.... even my Aimpoint Pro has better adjustment dials 🤕
I used an 8t one time and was really impressed. Thing needs to be like $150-200 cheaper though
Thanks for the review buddy, becoming my go to.
Definitely snag the 4T for $360~$400. $500+ seems awfully steep
I've never seen the "real" 4T that cheap.
@@Hoplopfheil The “quad plex” reticles models usually sell for cheaper. For what it’s worth the center dot and hold dots are allegedly 1 MOA and 0.5 MOA respectively compared to 2 and 1 MOA of the circle dot.
@@Hoplopfheil MSPR is high but there are, or at least were, several vendors that sold it for around 400. I think Proven Arms & Outfitters still have it for around that. Though it might've been with mil discount.
@@xlightning79 I’ve tried both and actually prefer the quad plex. Win for me since it’s usually around $350. I also enjoy having a slightly smaller dot under magnification.
@@Hoplopfheil i paid $371 for my 4t
Every time I watch optic review from you I for some reason always coke to the conclusion to buy eotech exps3
Ive got a juliet 6 behind an eotech. Match made in heaven for PTI and flexible from close to short barrel max distances.
Hey, Phantom Hill is making a CTF2! I’m sure you were aware, just wanted to get in on the hype. It seems like it’ll be pretty nice!
The 8t plus magnifier is roughly as heavy as a vortex razor Gen 2 plus Badger ordnance mount, which is definitely noticeable and really heavy compared to a t2 plus magnifier
For some reason I like the crosshair reticle of the 4T
I love these reviews
Romeo 8T is the way to go for me. Especially considering it was only 430 dollars hairs brand new.
Been running the 8t since they came out. So good under nods that it's tempting to ditch my laser and just run passive
2:00 caught me totally off guard hop lmao
Thanks for the awesome review.
I fucking love it Hop! The flagship joke really got me!
You could mount James' c9 as a foregrip for 3 more ounces.
Way more style.
Tracers in the c9 can be your tertiary sight.
The Hi Point c9 and tracer rounds are 'Murica sourceable.
From what I've gathered, Sig's microprocessors are likely sourced from Taiwan and the glass is similarly outsourced. The fact that Taiwan's sovereignty is challenged right now is likely part of the reason why the DOD hasn't adopted the 8T as an optic despite its inclusion on Sig's offerings (XM5 and XM250) for the NGSW program; its not as dependable as EOTECH in terms of future availability.
For non-DOD personnel, I think the 8T is a fantastic choice for a SHTF scenario. The weight of an EXP3,1-2 back-up CR123 batteries, plus furniture that will let you keep them handy on your rifle will add more weight than the 8T will. I'd imagine that the EOTech would be the go to if you're using a Suppressed/NV/Vehicle focused build, whereas an 8T might be better choice if youre just opting for a GPR.
These are all good options and I've used most of them accept the 8T...I might have to change that.
BTW, the Juliet 6 mag is a nice option in my book. I really like the ability to flip out for 1X over spinning a bezel ring as I find acquiring a target with a 1X red dot much quicker and intuitive, and clearer.
No experience with the 4t but the very similar (and cheaper) 4s has been good for the money in my experience.
So, I love my 4T, holds up great, BDC matches my gun and load pretty well, but the NV criticism is on point. Yeah, passive aiming is possible, but only just and because my tubes have high enough performance to pick up the dulled image. If I had worse tubes, it’d be a struggle. With L3s new supergain tubes, maybe we will change how we use passive aiming devices though.
Good info 👍 no BS, just the facts.
I noticed the Juliet4 magnifier does not have a centering feature between the optic and the mount. The fit (prior to tightening the screws) between optic and mount is loose ... So there is a high chance that that the magnifier will not be parallel to the rail when you tighten down the screws. The problem magnifies when you swap out or add the included spacers.
Have the same problem but with the juliet 6. Had to retighten the screws over and over very carefully. In the end I could not get it to match up with my Eotech Exps2. Either the spacers were not tall enough or too tall. Hop is right now I run the same brand magnifier and have no problems.
Yep it's annoying to swap the spacers. Oh well, once you get it done it's fine.
Love these, Hop...how about a review of your favorite snacks while out in the wilds? Cheers, my dude.
You definitely deserve more subscribers! Good reviews and vids, keep it up
Also, more nvg content?:p
I'm still leaning on the primary arms little prism.. Has that etched reticle that still works without the batteries, and it's so much smaller/ lighter/ and cheaper..... Not sure how it would work with a magnifier though.
Thanks Hop! Great review 😄
You’re pretty cool Hop! Keep up the good work.
Would you say that the additional BDC dots would be worth it for a 300BLK over a standard 2 MOA Aimpoint?
If you can get them to match up to anything, yeah that would help. If you want to get subsonic 300blk out past 75 or so yards you're really gonna want something.
@@Hoplopfheil good to know. We'll see if I find myself wanting more than the Aimpoint can provide. Thanks!
Would love to see that video on magnifiers you mentioned potentially making
Great review Hop
I really want that "magnified red dots" video! 😩😩😩
Use case, max range, short comings, small run down on magnifier options,...
Informative review as always. Would love to hear your take on the new primary arms SLx microprisms, particularly the 1x.
I have absolutely no use or interest in a 1x prism.
@@nutsnfancy Scope shadow kills it for me otherwise they’d be perfect for my defective eyes.
In my opinion, it's probably not worth the effort to fret overmuch about a red dot's NV capabilities. A red dot is an optic that you can keep in your safe for ages and pick it up and it's still on. It's for the "always ready" situation for defensive purposes, like home or base defense (in the case of military and law enforcement). Red dots are also good for truck guns and patrol cars where you're not likely to have your NODs handy. However, if you're using night vision, this is for a specific mission or (most likely) for the occasional LARP from time to time. In that case, just get an EO Tech that is shit for battery life and put it on a rifle whose sole purpose is for LARPing (or, I guess, missions if you're actually an operator). In that case, you don't need to worry about battery life. It only needs to keep running for the duration of your mission, training, or LARP session. But for your home defense or base defense weapon, put a red dot on it cause the use case for that is you'll need to use it in a scenario where you don't have time do don you NODs, BUT if you for some reason CAN don you NODs in response to an active attack, then it COULD perform, in a pinch, if needed.
TLDR.
As a person from New Hampshire(where Sig is located). I had no idea these were actually assembled in Oregon. *scratches head*
The additional BDC dots of a eotech -4 are fit the best for a 14.5'' AR with about 2600fps with M855, while the ones on the Romeos are optimal for 20'' AR. Having a 16'' or 16.75'' might do better bdc wise with the romeos.
Would be nice if that quad reticle with the cross hairs could be switched to just a dot since that one has a 1 moa dot instead of 2 with the other reticle.
I have the 4T and I love it. I looked at the 8T and that thing was way too heavy for what it was.
I absolutely love my juliet3 micro and juliet 4 so much. When I got the 4 I immediately sold my eotech magnifier which is overrated garbage.... Imo..... And now saving up for the chonky 6.
I really enjoy your vids!!
"It's also about the weight of a flagship"..... so true
I just sent my magnifier back to vortex because behind my romeo 5 it turns my dot into a diagonal slash. I literally sent it off 10 minutes ago and then I watch this video because I was thinking of a romeo 8H with a romeo 5 magnifier and you're the first person in all my research about the issue that I've heard mention the slash instead of dot. Dammit.
I don't have the 8T but the 8H as at the time the 8T was unobtainium, only difference is the lack of shroud and flip cap bits (and the price, like $200 less).
Paired with an Aimpoint 3X-C magnifier on my 12.5 it works great for the type of shooting I do. It's a bit of a thick bitch and the lack of adjustability with the mount is a drawback but it does everything I expect from a red dot or holo with the clarity and consistency I want.
The 8H is made of 6061 aluminum whereas the 8T is made of 7075 aluminum. The 8T is literally a tank of an optic.
I'm still happy with my Holosun 503g with the HM3X. I don't shoot as much as I should and I'm easy to please though.
Woah dude this video was super helpful
"So that's pretty fucking based" amen lol
can i just use an actual cinder block instead
As an LPVO user I don't really have a say in the matter, but I always thought magnifying a red dot was a bad idea because, unlike a holographic, your zero changes drastically if you mag it. I chose a first focal plane LPVO specifically to combat this. Is that just fake news or are we assuming you zero at full magnification and just kinda wing it with close enough at short range?
Lpvo FFP are wonderful
would really love to see a take on the Vortex UH-1 series since it's lighter then the 8T but still a holographic with Vortex's weird quirks
Vortex refresh rate gives me a brain aneurysm
@@Hoplopfheil how many brain aneurysms have you suffered through on this channel?
At least two
You know most people won’t admit it, but it’s rather nice to be a poor, I don’t ever have to worry about my optics, lights working with NV or any of that nonsense. one can buy a non NV model of an eotech for lower cost and pretend to not be poor and only the NV guys will know you’re poor.
That was a very good video. Thank you.
That 8T looks eerily similar to the new Lead & Steel Promethean. And by "eerily similar", I mean exactly the same.
Did that video comparison.
the 8T seems to get way more attention then the 8H
Rewatching this. Pretty sure I'm moving my LPVO to a Grendel pistol build and buying the 8T for the 5.56 16" upper.
I got the 8t for $539 total which sold me. Paired with vortex 3x micro. Vortex has a QD so you dont have to keep it on the rifle all the time. I bet you can shed a bit of the weight by removing the shroud, but ruggedness suffers.
It will be lighter and ruggedness will degrade, but the 8T is made of 7075 aluminum versus the 8H being made of 6061.
Helpful content. OPlanet has 8t black for $560.
The Romeo 4T can ROUTINELY be purchased for around $350. No one should be paying 500+ MSRP.
I still wouldn't pay $350 (or $300) for it!!
@@RenegadeNate Based upon what? What optics are better in the same price range?
@@hannibalbarca2939 my Holosun 515GM is FAR better and cost under $225!
@@RenegadeNate but it’s not better
@@sbuyce1 sure it is! 2MOA red dot and 65MOA circle dot, kill flash flip ups, etc.
I have a Holosun HE512C-GD which is very similar to the 8T in form factor. An I like the idea of the 8T but normal red dots don't work for me. Honestly the Holosun Gold Dots are the only "red dots" that work for me in bright sunlight because I'm color blind. (An yes I've looked through aimpoints.) Nothing else even comes close in terms of brightness. However Eotech still wins in terms of brightness even though they're red in color. But the short battery life and lack of shake awake on holographic optixs still pose enough of an issue to go with a gold dot. I just wish they made a pistol optic in a gold dot variant. I'd love a 509T and 507K with a gold dot.
Also interested to know: Romeo 4T/8T vs Primary Arms 503G or MD-25 both with and without magnification. I have a 503G and the glass is amazingly clear and the chevron, circle, and dots are super crisp, almost as if they are etched into the glass.
Hey Hop im not sure if you'll see this or even care but i spent the last +18months using and messing with the 8T having it on the circle dot on the highest brightness setting and finally killed the battery. Its not scientific but its definitely says something to the battery life
I picked up my Romeo 4T for $390 from a drop shipper online. At the time I wanted an “American made” (assembled) red dot and I had already been disappointed by the Trijicon MRO for reasons Hop has covered on this channel.
Does it do anything more than some of the Holosuns I have? Not really. I’m not concerned that 6061 aluminum is going to get me killed in the streets so 7075 is sort of lost on me. I will also echo what Hop says here and say that if you want to use those ballistics hold overs then get a magnifier, they’re damn hard to see clearly otherwise.
Overall it has been a good optic, the mount it came with was decent, and the dot is crisp for me even with my astigmatism. Would I get it again? Probably not, I’d probably get an Aimpoint Duty, but that wasn’t available when I bought the 4T.
Being a cnc machine operator that works with aluminum, 6000 series aluminum is FAR softer than 7000 series, with 7075 being the best for many high strength low weight applications like aircraft (it is called aircraft grade for a reason) and is great for firearms and firearm accessories as it wont completely dent in to the point of being useless from a small drop. 6061 and 6063 on the other hand are incredibly soft, and are best suited for use as heat sinks and other applications where there is no danger of being damaged.
Seriously no joke with 6063, dropped a small heat sink made of 6063 1 foot above the ground and it was dented to the point it was scrap.
@@PilotTed that's great. I'm not worried that 6061 isn't strong enough. Choose as you like.