I keep buying guns that cost half as much as decent NV. If I'd just stop buying more guns I could get some but I just feel like I'd never really get to use it. Which is a dumbass take on my part. The night vision would be invaluable whenever things really kick off and a well sorted PSA is equally as lethal as a Gucci AR.
Same. I’m not gonna lie I’ve thought about going to food banks and soup kitchens to save enough coin to buy all the shit I need for nv. I figure the homeless need it more than I need NV 😢
Ya know what? After watching this whole 45 minute night vision related video I've decided that I plan to one day consider getting NVGs and then eventually I plan to plan on considering a laser unit to go with it.
Was about to write out a snippy comment about how a straight up tier list is sort of obvious and doesn't help 95% of those without thousands to blow, then fast forwarded to the 'real world tier list'. Well done as always. I personally own two DBAL i2 9007 per Hop's videos on them. Can't complain as I don't really need much more at the moment.
Genuinely tier lists really help with these kinds of products where - I - don't have a extremely great grasp of all these technical specs but they do and they show us where everything stands.
I know the somogears are a meme but I’d like to add a story about mine. Got mine in December of last year and put around 1k-1,300 rounds down range with it. Never lost zero and I didn’t baby it. 1 week ago I went shooting in the rain, I’ve done that before with the somogear and it was fine but not this time. When I pressed on the tail switch the laser would turn on but act like I double clicked and then wouldn’t turn off unless I pressed the button on the unit. Took it home, dried it off, and now it doesn’t work with tail switches anymore. Button on the unit is fine and all other functions are working as they did. Just no more tailswitches. I contacted somogear and I was unfortunately 10 days past the 6 month warranty period, they won’t replace it but they offered me a 40% off discount. Annoyed but it is what it is for chinesium stuff. Might hold onto tbat 40% off for when their new ngal comes out and give that a test. Being aluminum might make it more user serviceable.
@@sliderofelay even if you go by that philosophy you still have a high chance of being dissatisfied with the laser you get. It gets even more complicated when you get into guns with little rail space or handguns.
@@quaraeasaurustex1823 yeah. I think US citizens not allowed to have full power peq 15’s and other full power lasers is such a joke. A laser aiming modul is like a suppressor it just makes shooting a little more comfortable and helps you shoot a little better but it looks dangerous so the government bans it.
Dude, the end of this episode sums it up. The MAWL's okay but not worth 3,500-. The dbal d2 is okay i guess, but too heavy. Holosun is probably the best value, but the illuminator is too weak and they're ugly. Military peqs are cool but probably stolen, have seen hard use and are 2 grand. Everything kinda sucks.
Extremely accurate lists. This is super accurate. Basically as a civilian: 1. Holosun LE321G for price or Dbal D2 for illuminator 2. Full power A2 Dbal if you can find one. 3. Full power peq 15 if you can find one. 4. Full power peq 2 if you can find one 5. MAWL if you’re rich. Everything else is dogshit.
The somogear NGAL for $450 looks promising with numerous several thousand round reports mounted to a scar H. Having run the Dbal-D2 for a while although it is powerful that thing is a heavy thick brick on the end of your gun.
Peq15A definitely belongs lower on the list, max of C tier. I had both the original peq15 and peq15a’s in my arms room, about 15 examples of each. The 15a would burn out lasers randomly. I don’t think I had one that was fully functional by the end of time at that job. Every single one had at least one of the lasers burned out. To be fair they were taking a beating on government issued rifles and were already old when I got there but the original peq15 did much better. The only problems I had with the original peq 15s were cracks from asvab wavers torquing them to 100ftlbs with a leatherman, or completely shattering from major damage that also deadlined the rifle itself or the individual carrying it.
Exactly. Why tf would anyone want an IR laser that you can only see with night vision when you can just buy a cheap red laser that you can see all the time?? Some people are so stupid I swear.
@@FinalLugiaGuardian Ya, why would you want that. Wouldn't you want everyone else to see what you're aiming at so they know where to shoot? Smh dude use your dang brain
I did this with a shotgun lol. Fit in the groove perfectly and used electric tape. It's not centered, but it's straight with the bore. At least up to 25 yards. And honestly I don't need it for a longer distance shot, I can use the sights. More for CQ and hip fire.
Both of my DIR-Vs have had 0 issues since I got them. One of them does receive a lot of banging and heat on my 556 and has been performing very well since the beginning of the year. Haven’t seen any poi shifts.
I was the reason for the metal clamp on the DIR-V. Sent mine in initially for non-coaligned lasers and it's been fine since, he upgraded the illuminator to ~200mW too which is nice.
@@seraph045 The unfortunate truth is that much of the NV LAM game is a gamble currently. 3EIR has fantastic customer service though, can't say the same for some of the other manufacturers named in this video.
I appreciate the comment at the end where the best options in the Laser Module Market are Holosun and a DBAL. That being said, I love my Holosun and will buy more of them. My first laser was an OTAL-C from Steiner and it gets the job done for a decent price, but the Holosuns are better and for not much more. My go-to setup now that I can swap between guns is the Holosun LS221G and a Surefire M640V. M640V just takes a flathead screwdriver and can mount to the top rail, and the Holosun is QD. The green vis laser lets me zero it during the day.
@@Fadaar I own an LS321 and I really like it, But I found the full power illuminator kind of necessary sometimes. You can find Peq2A's for about the same price, but with the downsides that come with early 00's tech and customer service. If you don't want the FP option. LS321 is awesome.
yeah i really get the "here is what you are getting for what you are spending" so you can base it off that info. you could still buy a b or c tier item, but at least you know what to expect
@@BrassFacts Unironically, no. Still worse than OGL if we ever get it, but I really like how they incorporated the ambi controls on the MAWL. Well, less ambi and more *configurable,* I should say.
@@BrassFacts Ambi as in it can be configured to either a lefty or a righty. Once it's on a gun, it is not functionally ambi for the purposes of swapping shoulders. I guess I articulated that poorly. Well, I still prefer the entire thing being configurable for lefties over the button being on the wrong side of the device body.
I ran a PEQ-15A in Afghanistan way back in 2010. The visible laser was an odd shape though, it was like a rectangle but only if you looked at it really close. But it didn't effect the usability at all. Thanks for making this info easily accessible.
@@KeyboardWarrior101stfor certain SOPs you can have your leadership roles using a certain shape like a triangle for instance, and the 240 gunners with a crosshair shape, every else with regular dots. It helps with deconfliction of fires when on a large or complex objective with supporting fires. Your guys in your team can differentiate what you're pointing at with your laser when giving fire commands and direction, couple that with putting your laser on high mode with the illuminator on you can differentiate it even more, especially when aircraft are involved or when coordinating with other units who aren't organic to yours. Helps a lot with radio calls and link ups.
After watching this, I'm still happy I started with an LS321. Gonna stay hopeful and believe Eotech that they are making a civi OGL. Also I'm gonna try the new aluminum body Somo NGAL when it drops.
tragically, the somogear is the only lam where you get what you pay for. everything else has frankly hilarious margins, with minor to moderate increases in build quality (thank you steiner, very cool).
@@sliderofelay partly, but even if I account for vscel and increased qc I find it hard the believe that any unit or more than 500-700, and that includes an absolutely silly number of man hours
@@sliderofelay some of the units are produced in the 10k (if not hundreds of thousands of units) range for mil and Le, and realistically the circuits aren't significantly different I wouldn't be surprised in the civ units have high power laser hardware but a different driver that keeps them within fda spec.
Only real drawbacks with the D2 is the Steiner prolapse issue, Which if you’re careful isn’t a big issue and speaking of big, The D2 is a chunky girl 😂
I have a FP Raid Xe gotta say, yes they took long to initially ship, but Wilcox Customer service have been awesome! I've had to utilize them twice already on missing/replacement parts.. (maybe that's a bad thing) but they definitely have quick response time and have made it right for me both times! I think it deserves at least a C or D
@@8solideogloriayeh nothing major. Mine didn't ship with the little o-ring that waterproofs the battery compartment, or the correct tool to change out the lens cover. Also I stripped the small screws that are used to hold the lens cover in place, probably because I am an ape and didn't use the exact size.
Just got a DIR-V in the mail today after a 3 month wait for the new redesign. I bought based on your glowing first review. Hope it doesn’t suck. At least everything works out of the box.
Pretty sure the XVL2 was designed as a contender for the pistol laser contract formerly held by the PEQ-14 (and currently by the Laser Max module on the M17/18). The fingertip rocker on the rear is clearly designed for use with a pistol.
So I own a mawl that stays on my main rifle, and as much as I’d love to put one on all my rifles that’ll never happen, so I’ve bought 2 somogears and I honestly love them. I’ve ran them decently hard and never lost zero. It’s probably a matter of time before they do and they probably won’t last as long but for the price and the fact they’re full power I think they’re well worth it. I think it’s great for entry price and practice guns.
I went with perst 4 because I knew I'd be getting the Klesh-2 along with it. The pressure pad that hooks into both is great. the kelsh-2 isn't that good but it does do decent enough in IR and vis. main reason i wanted the full power laser was because I wanted to be able to use the visible laser as a non lethal option in a riot situation. Totally absurd, but after 2020 I can't help but feel it's a real thing I want. If a visbile gun isn't deterent enough i would think to be able to laser someone in the face and get them to think twice is a valuable product, probably more useful than any real NVG setup for most civilians
I have a FP Somogear that I strapped down onto the rail with one of those strong wide black bands It’s actually super solid and holds zero and has a great bright laser and illuminator. All for 300$ and a rubber band.
@@nomad0395 haha yeah, a ranger band! I’ve dropped the rifle in the dirt and everything and it’s kept going. So, hey! I actually had a case break on one from one after ratcheting it on too hard (my fault) and they sent me a replacement the next day after messaging them. So, I’m a somogear fan. They work and they’re relatively cheap.
Holosun ls117ir, surefire m952v, and unity switch is a hell of a budget combo, alittle heavy but you can be out of the door with mounts for sub $800 for ir laser/illuminator and vis light
@@NateJRSattim honestly not sure but considering you can find them for ~$300 with a qd pic mount, the good tailcap, and tapeswitch; its really hard to beat the value, when i was looking i couldnt find any m300 or m600 for that price without the extras
I wish y’all had talked a little more about the holo lam units performance within civilian world. I have an ls123 that I got for 600 used and it’s great for the money. Super durable too and perfectly serviceable for most practical uses
Hop/Brass Facts, or NovaGroup doing a Tier List on ALL AR15/AR10 stocks and braces as far as comfort, function, build quality, etc. Maybe one on Red Dots/1x optics
Just to mention to update Hop’s info because I used it maybe 6-8 months ago lol but Kosher/Custom NV has been out of 9007’s for months unless something changed in that time. I checked several months ago when you mentioned it and they were gone then and then checked again a few weeks ago and they were gone. Also, the B&H photo email me a price is also still going but it’s $1399 now. Still a great unit for that price in my opinion even with the size. I was out shooting a 2021 Peq-15 tonight and my D2 and honestly… I much prefer the performance of the d2 at least for what I do. Just hate the damn size man!!! WE NEED OGL! Cool video by the way
@@BrassFacts I know man I felt the same way. I was like man Hop and Brass Facts always go on about these 9007’s I guess I’ll get one and throw it on a fun gun… nope lol
OGL and Somogear have a surprising amount of overlap: tons of civilian interest, cheap bastards constantly argue over each, lots of power, both filled with empty promises
I’ve heard people had good luck for 3-6 months and then the ejection molded plastic started to give way for many users. I believe BrassFacts broke his too with a video eventually coming out
@@arcaneculture948my only complaint about my somogear is that the illuminator spins in a circle when the focus is adjusted, and just doesn’t hold a zero for shit. Other than that? Fairly impressed for the fuck around unit that it is. It’s hilarious to compare the beam against a FP Dbal, the high setting on the somogear is barely brighter than the low of a real FP unit. But regardless, it does work admirably for what it is.
HA! I just bought a LS321R and was sweating this whole time, now I feel better. :-) It's my first laser, I am just getting started out with NV, so I think I made a good choice. Good video, Thanks!
Thank you hop for recommending the DBAL I2 9007. I got one early this year at B&H photo. 😮💨 DBAL I2 is B tier for price performance and reliability, and if it was still available 😂
One thing I've heard about the MAWL from numerous people, however have not experienced as I don't own one (I use a PEQ-16B), is that it has parasitic drain on the batteries. Not that you should store your batteries in your several thousand dollar device, but that's pretty wack that from the second you start your mission your battery is being used. Hopefully it doesn't shit the bed when you actually need it.
I buy the ToughSoul $39 IR laser (+ white light) and $24 IR intensifier off Amazon. They last about 2-3 range sessions or maybe 300 -500 rds each day. My laser white light $39 has been going nearly 2000 rs now... but I've already bought the replacement when it dies... Takes 2 minutes to replace... my motto why cry once when you can buy cheap + more ammo.
I bought a Perst-2 before the prices went up, but never got night vision. It’s really powerful but it’s similar to a Luna Elir-3. It’s basically a illuminator that can screw into a pin size IR laser.
I’ve got a somo peq-15 that I had mounted to my 556 ar. My biggest complaint is how easily the laser adjustment screws turn. I can press my finger on them and they’ll rotate. There’s almost no detent at all. I heard that the pic rail mount is a significant failure point so I didn’t ugga dugga it when installing, but after one range session consisting of about 40 rounds, the entire unit was so loose that I’m surprised it didn’t fall off. I just moved it to a pdw, but having an enormous box strapped to the side of what would have been a very minimalist setup is mildly frustrating. Which brings me back to watching this video from start to finish for a second time. I’m now looking for a better option for both the ar and the pdw. Leaning towards a D2 and holosun respectively. Thank you for putting out S tier content day in and day out
I've been running a LS117IR and a vampire and I run the tape switch for the light on the 9 o'clock and the laser switch on the 12 o clock so I can activate both of them at the same time. It takes getting used to but the weight reduction i think is worth it. For close range targets with my budget too it works well but the illuminator struggles with distance past like 100 yards. Good video
Honest, I'm really looking forward to the somo gear NGAL. If it holds up well enough, it will be FP metal construction for under 500 beans. At least that would place it in the mid to low B-tier for me.
What about a tier list for muzzle devices? Could stick with one type, or you could just rank all the major ar-15 muzzle deviced. A tier list for optics would be nice too. Especially LPVOs
Have you broken an Ls m3, been using them for the past few months and all of my samples have held up. Tested quite a few of them. I’m interested in what laserspeed does in the future because the price to power rate is un matched. For me I’m gonna stick to the ngal, nothings better at any price point. I think the only civ powered laser that can ever be considered is the d2.
Since full power lasers are considered medical devices by the FDA, couldn't a licensed physician be certified to purchase a full power laser or are there additional restrictions beyond just them being classified as medical devices?
this gave me a great amount of information on my decision should i get an IR device. Especially the 2nd of the tier lists. will go with the holosun or the dbal d2. and IF i feel like spending more on a holosun equivalent, the HLAD and even then it be for the looks. not the best reasoning i know, but at least i have the info on what it really is.
Thank for the video, it was educative. However in my mind Perst-4 was slightly underrated, I mean if you have a combination of the Perst 4 and surefire vampir, you get pretty cheap package ( considering that you still can get a perst in around 800 hundred bucks), weight wise it will be around 300 grams. Which is similar to the 3 in 1 devices, and even lighter considering that with them most still prefer to add a separate white light. Another benefit that I can think of is modularity as if your light and IR laser are separate devices, you can remove one when you don’t need and makes your rifle somewhat lighter. At the same time I am just a noob that transitions from airsoft night setup to the real world, and at the time I was in military the only night device we had was 1.5 kilos Soviet night scope. Therefore if I missed some underwater stones with my comment please let me know.
As (probably) the only 420 user, I wish you guys recognized it's totally at least half a tier above the other Holosuns but I'm just glad you remembered at all
The surefire vampires are not able to be ordered due to law enforcement contracts. I called with my own personal account number for LE/MIL discounts and they would not sell me one and said outright that's why. They instead sold me a 640v and added a surefire pressure switch.
So from watching this I have learned one thing: Literally zero manufacturer makes a laser aiming manual that has the laser centered inline with the barrel but is instead to the offset to the right or left. Would honestly think that manufacturers would center the laser with the barrel when mounted and then offset the Illuminator to the right or left so that you can parallel zero the laser easier with a bore sight and squaring block to get the distance between bore and laser right:
It would be great for a comparison in this for the Meprolight MOR PRO, I like the concept as it's a natural light plus battery illuminator sight plus it comes with a red or green laser and IR pointer and it's the primary weapons sight so it's not adding extra weight and bulk to the business end of the rifle.
Have a 01/2023 Manufcatured 3eir IR-V.....the coalignment on the Vis/IR laser is off 4" high and 1" left Just emailed 3eir for an RMA about 2 hours ago. SUCKS!
ok 99% agree with him...done the "research" and with that being said...the "airsoft" laser yall are just hating here for no reason other than it not "real" lazer ooooh, with that being said personal experience with it as the potted, upgraded switch and diffuser( i know ive spent more money on the upgrades than its worth) with all that its certainly in the middle of B and C tiers just cuz its got ~20+mw and its signature on my rig. there rant over.
Hello Mr. Brass Facts, did you check out the primary arms slx 3-18 in the Athena and Apollo reticle? It's the same price as the 2.5-10 with the griffin reticle. I was just wondering if the 3-18 would be a better option for an spr optic than the 2.5-10?
I'm really interested in the NGAL and the OGL. My fear though is that L3 is going to fuck up the NGAL by gimping the illuminator the way they did on the ATPIAL-C. If you can't focus it, the illuminator is essentially worthless.
@@squirreltakular9049 It's been rumored for awhile now. I'm not even sure where that rumor originated from or if there were any concrete announcements about it.
I don't even own NV but I'm here for the whole 45 minutes.
one of these timestamps is not like the other
I keep buying guns that cost half as much as decent NV. If I'd just stop buying more guns I could get some but I just feel like I'd never really get to use it.
Which is a dumbass take on my part. The night vision would be invaluable whenever things really kick off and a well sorted PSA is equally as lethal as a Gucci AR.
It do be that way...
Ditto
Same. I’m not gonna lie I’ve thought about going to food banks and soup kitchens to save enough coin to buy all the shit I need for nv. I figure the homeless need it more than I need NV 😢
You and hop teaming up and doing tier lists for every piece of equipment would be perfect.
YES.
Seriously. Anything from plate carriers to ear pro to lpvos, anything you guys have experience with
Anything else? A lot of things don't make sense imo.
The only other ones would be lpvos and maybe WML's
@@BrassFacts1x sights.
@@BrassFacts energy/protein/nutrition bars I remember Hop once rambling about Luna bars if I remember correctly.
For convenience,
1:15 ZenitCo Perst-3,
2:49 ZenitCo Perst-4,
3:22 USNV Designate IR-V,
4:14 Streamlight TLR-VIR II,
5:45 3EIR Vulcan IR-V,
7:50 SureFire XVL2-IRC,
8:55 SureFire X400 Ultra,
10:09 B.E. Meyers MAWL-C1+,
12:50 Wilcox RAID Xe,
14:40 Holosun 221/321/420
16:14 DI Optical HLAD-3G
16:40 L3Harris/EOTech ATPIAL PEQ-15, PEQ-2A, Steiner DBAL-A2 (full power versions)
19:38 L3Harris ATPIAL-C
20:09 Steiner DBAL-I2 & DBAL-A3
21:12 Steiner DBAL-D2
22:22 Steiner DBAL-A4
22:53 Phantom Hill CTF-2
24:07 Laserspeed (Chinese manufacture)
24:41 SomoGear PEQ-15 (full power)
25:06 Separate IR illuminator & laser (B.E. Meyers Kiji or SureFire Vampire with Holosun LS117, Steiner OTAL-C, etc.)
27:29 EOTech OGL (low power)
Feel free to correct if I made a mistake
Thanks man! I added it to the video.
THANK YOU
@@BrassFactsNo problem, thank you for all the great videos that you make!
I love you
Index man my hero
Ya know what? After watching this whole 45 minute night vision related video I've decided that I plan to one day consider getting NVGs and then eventually I plan to plan on considering a laser unit to go with it.
6 hours left of a 9 hour drive home and this drops, perfect. Thank you
hang in there.
And it's a near perfect 45 minutes so you can watch it 8 times!
Hope you made it safe!
@@bishopm4401 Yep, just had breakfast with the wifey
did you make it??
More of these tier lists please! It's such a great fun/informative and easy to read way of knowing what is good to go and what's not. Thank you!
Was about to write out a snippy comment about how a straight up tier list is sort of obvious and doesn't help 95% of those without thousands to blow, then fast forwarded to the 'real world tier list'. Well done as always. I personally own two DBAL i2 9007 per Hop's videos on them. Can't complain as I don't really need much more at the moment.
S+: Posting images of your gun with a somogear ngal and convincing people on the internet that it's totally a real one
huh? Maybe I'm misunderstanding. I've never had a still with a ngal of any kind, real or fake.
@@BrassFacts I do that. I'm him.
@@mellowroot714based
Rule #1: look cool.
Need more of these tier lists, tier lists for everything possible, tier lists galore
Hell yeah, and after a bit of time we can finally make a tier list of tier lists, can't wait!
Tier list of nv housings would be great
Genuinely tier lists really help with these kinds of products where - I - don't have a extremely great grasp of all these technical specs but they do and they show us where everything stands.
I know the somogears are a meme but I’d like to add a story about mine. Got mine in December of last year and put around 1k-1,300 rounds down range with it. Never lost zero and I didn’t baby it. 1 week ago I went shooting in the rain, I’ve done that before with the somogear and it was fine but not this time. When I pressed on the tail switch the laser would turn on but act like I double clicked and then wouldn’t turn off unless I pressed the button on the unit. Took it home, dried it off, and now it doesn’t work with tail switches anymore. Button on the unit is fine and all other functions are working as they did. Just no more tailswitches.
I contacted somogear and I was unfortunately 10 days past the 6 month warranty period, they won’t replace it but they offered me a 40% off discount.
Annoyed but it is what it is for chinesium stuff. Might hold onto tbat 40% off for when their new ngal comes out and give that a test. Being aluminum might make it more user serviceable.
WTF
They gave me a 30% discount when I broke mine!
Haha
Better then getting a “You’re SOL.”
I didn't know Ben Shapiro talks about night vision
Lol😂
I'm not the only one thinking it 😂
His poor wife lol
This accurately represents my frustration when trying to decide which laser units to buy only to still be unhappy.
The true meaning of "buy once; cry once."
@@sliderofelay even if you go by that philosophy you still have a high chance of being dissatisfied with the laser you get. It gets even more complicated when you get into guns with little rail space or handguns.
I’m just super lazy at trying to research stuff right now and I want to buy it once and be done .
@@L.D.R_yt good luck with that. Even doing weeks worth of research I still found myself being disappointed.
@@quaraeasaurustex1823 yeah. I think US citizens not allowed to have full power peq 15’s and other full power lasers is such a joke. A laser aiming modul is like a suppressor it just makes shooting a little more comfortable and helps you shoot a little better but it looks dangerous so the government bans it.
Dude, the end of this episode sums it up. The MAWL's okay but not worth 3,500-. The dbal d2 is okay i guess, but too heavy. Holosun is probably the best value, but the illuminator is too weak and they're ugly. Military peqs are cool but probably stolen, have seen hard use and are 2 grand.
Everything kinda sucks.
ATPIAL C with the Villains Weapons Systems IR illuminator focuser is actually pretty solid.
Extremely accurate lists. This is super accurate. Basically as a civilian:
1. Holosun LE321G for price or Dbal D2 for illuminator
2. Full power A2 Dbal if you can find one.
3. Full power peq 15 if you can find one.
4. Full power peq 2 if you can find one
5. MAWL if you’re rich.
Everything else is dogshit.
The somogear NGAL for $450 looks promising with numerous several thousand round reports mounted to a scar H. Having run the Dbal-D2 for a while although it is powerful that thing is a heavy thick brick on the end of your gun.
Fp ngal on top
Peq15A definitely belongs lower on the list, max of C tier. I had both the original peq15 and peq15a’s in my arms room, about 15 examples of each. The 15a would burn out lasers randomly. I don’t think I had one that was fully functional by the end of time at that job. Every single one had at least one of the lasers burned out. To be fair they were taking a beating on government issued rifles and were already old when I got there but the original peq15 did much better. The only problems I had with the original peq 15s were cracks from asvab wavers torquing them to 100ftlbs with a leatherman, or completely shattering from major damage that also deadlined the rifle itself or the individual carrying it.
The best laser aiming module is the $5, laser pointer I bought at the gas station and I ziptied to my M&P-15. You don' need nothing else, brother.
How did you zero that?
Exactly. Why tf would anyone want an IR laser that you can only see with night vision when you can just buy a cheap red laser that you can see all the time?? Some people are so stupid I swear.
@dawsonw128 Because the visible laser can be seen by everyone. The IR laser can only be seen by you.
@@FinalLugiaGuardian Ya, why would you want that. Wouldn't you want everyone else to see what you're aiming at so they know where to shoot? Smh dude use your dang brain
I did this with a shotgun lol. Fit in the groove perfectly and used electric tape. It's not centered, but it's straight with the bore. At least up to 25 yards. And honestly I don't need it for a longer distance shot, I can use the sights. More for CQ and hip fire.
Both of my DIR-Vs have had 0 issues since I got them. One of them does receive a lot of banging and heat on my 556 and has been performing very well since the beginning of the year. Haven’t seen any poi shifts.
I was the reason for the metal clamp on the DIR-V. Sent mine in initially for non-coaligned lasers and it's been fine since, he upgraded the illuminator to ~200mW too which is nice.
Seems like a cool guy just some major growing pains
I’m curious about the DIR-V but don’t want to pay a $1900 ticket to play QC lottery
@@seraph045If you have any problems with it, call John. He’s a solid dude and will make it right.
@@Yapperinos He's a cool dude for sure
@@seraph045 The unfortunate truth is that much of the NV LAM game is a gamble currently. 3EIR has fantastic customer service though, can't say the same for some of the other manufacturers named in this video.
So excited!!!!! I need this list. I’ve got a Perst4 and LE321. I’d like a phantom hill but I’m pretty sure they don’t like selling their stuff
FEATURE LENGTH!
Also, thank you for explaining what the tiers actually mean.
I appreciate the comment at the end where the best options in the Laser Module Market are Holosun and a DBAL. That being said, I love my Holosun and will buy more of them. My first laser was an OTAL-C from Steiner and it gets the job done for a decent price, but the Holosuns are better and for not much more. My go-to setup now that I can swap between guns is the Holosun LS221G and a Surefire M640V. M640V just takes a flathead screwdriver and can mount to the top rail, and the Holosun is QD. The green vis laser lets me zero it during the day.
You are helping me make "smart" purchasing decions so I dont "blow the croch out" of my budget
tbh bang for your buck its pretty hard to beat the LS321 right now
@@Fadaar I own an LS321 and I really like it, But I found the full power illuminator kind of necessary sometimes. You can find Peq2A's for about the same price, but with the downsides that come with early 00's tech and customer service. If you don't want the FP option. LS321 is awesome.
yeah i really get the "here is what you are getting for what you are spending" so you can base it off that info. you could still buy a b or c tier item, but at least you know what to expect
The Peq2A is the size, but it also takes AA batteries, and you can focus the illuminator down to almost laser diameter. I love mine.
Fantastic video, thanks guys. This was incredibly helpful to me as I am getting into night vision for the first time.
Can't believe Brass didn't mention the fact that the MAWL is so elegantly ambidextrious.
is that sarcasm?
@@BrassFacts Unironically, no. Still worse than OGL if we ever get it, but I really like how they incorporated the ambi controls on the MAWL.
Well, less ambi and more *configurable,* I should say.
@@007turtle1239 was about to say, the mawl isn't even slightly ambi. It's in fact, the least ambi LAM out there.
@@BrassFacts Ambi as in it can be configured to either a lefty or a righty. Once it's on a gun, it is not functionally ambi for the purposes of swapping shoulders. I guess I articulated that poorly.
Well, I still prefer the entire thing being configurable for lefties over the button being on the wrong side of the device body.
Of course, you could just... centre the controls. But that's hard, it seems.
I looked up the price of some of these lasers and my wallet moved my mouse to exit the page and said keep dreaming.
I ran a PEQ-15A in Afghanistan way back in 2010. The visible laser was an odd shape though, it was like a rectangle but only if you looked at it really close. But it didn't effect the usability at all. Thanks for making this info easily accessible.
Hey I think a buddy of mine found one of those recently lol.
it had a shape lens,they have different shapes avaible.
@@derrickkolba Interesting. Any reason for that?
@@KeyboardWarrior101stuser preferences. If you get a new issued PEQ-15 the different shapes are in the soft case.
@@KeyboardWarrior101stfor certain SOPs you can have your leadership roles using a certain shape like a triangle for instance, and the 240 gunners with a crosshair shape, every else with regular dots. It helps with deconfliction of fires when on a large or complex objective with supporting fires. Your guys in your team can differentiate what you're pointing at with your laser when giving fire commands and direction, couple that with putting your laser on high mode with the illuminator on you can differentiate it even more, especially when aircraft are involved or when coordinating with other units who aren't organic to yours. Helps a lot with radio calls and link ups.
After watching this, I'm still happy I started with an LS321. Gonna stay hopeful and believe Eotech that they are making a civi OGL. Also I'm gonna try the new aluminum body Somo NGAL when it drops.
tragically, the somogear is the only lam where you get what you pay for. everything else has frankly hilarious margins, with minor to moderate increases in build quality (thank you steiner, very cool).
I think it is just such a low quantity market that you end up basically short run cost and prototype quality.
@@sliderofelay partly, but even if I account for vscel and increased qc I find it hard the believe that any unit or more than 500-700, and that includes an absolutely silly number of man hours
@@orientalornamental
Same reason suppressors over here are $1000 but the same models are 2-300 in the EU.
@@sliderofelay some of the units are produced in the 10k (if not hundreds of thousands of units) range for mil and Le, and realistically the circuits aren't significantly different I wouldn't be surprised in the civ units have high power laser hardware but a different driver that keeps them within fda spec.
@@orientalornamental that is a lot for a cottage industry but barely enough to start lowering the cost via economy of scale.
Wow. Watched the entire thing and you actually convinced me to finally pickup a DBAL D2
I still think right now the d2 is the way to go. Interesting to see how the eotech one will fit in whenever it releases some day.
Only real drawbacks with the D2 is the Steiner prolapse issue, Which if you’re careful isn’t a big issue and speaking of big, The D2 is a chunky girl 😂
I have a FP Raid Xe gotta say, yes they took long to initially ship, but Wilcox Customer service have been awesome! I've had to utilize them twice already on missing/replacement parts.. (maybe that's a bad thing) but they definitely have quick response time and have made it right for me both times! I think it deserves at least a C or D
Jesus mr money bags can u get me a second pvs14?
I have FP xe as well. Mind sharing what broke?
@@8solideogloriayeh nothing major. Mine didn't ship with the little o-ring that waterproofs the battery compartment, or the correct tool to change out the lens cover. Also I stripped the small screws that are used to hold the lens cover in place, probably because I am an ape and didn't use the exact size.
@@Token_Black_GuyI didn't pay the mark up price for it
@@politeaf8065wait they will actually ship a FP unit to a civ? Or are you LE?
Just got a DIR-V in the mail today after a 3 month wait for the new redesign. I bought based on your glowing first review. Hope it doesn’t suck. At least everything works out of the box.
Interesting that y’all’s conclusions pretty well match my own, and I’m in the market for an LS321.
Pretty sure the XVL2 was designed as a contender for the pistol laser contract formerly held by the PEQ-14 (and currently by the Laser Max module on the M17/18). The fingertip rocker on the rear is clearly designed for use with a pistol.
So I own a mawl that stays on my main rifle, and as much as I’d love to put one on all my rifles that’ll never happen, so I’ve bought 2 somogears and I honestly love them. I’ve ran them decently hard and never lost zero. It’s probably a matter of time before they do and they probably won’t last as long but for the price and the fact they’re full power I think they’re well worth it. I think it’s great for entry price and practice guns.
I went with perst 4 because I knew I'd be getting the Klesh-2 along with it. The pressure pad that hooks into both is great. the kelsh-2 isn't that good but it does do decent enough in IR and vis.
main reason i wanted the full power laser was because I wanted to be able to use the visible laser as a non lethal option in a riot situation. Totally absurd, but after 2020 I can't help but feel it's a real thing I want.
If a visbile gun isn't deterent enough i would think to be able to laser someone in the face and get them to think twice is a valuable product, probably more useful than any real NVG setup for most civilians
It's not absurd at all. antifa burned out LEO retinas with cheap wish blue lasers during those riots
I have a FP Somogear that I strapped down onto the rail with one of those strong wide black bands It’s actually super solid and holds zero and has a great bright laser and illuminator. All for 300$ and a rubber band.
Are you talking about strapping it with a ranger band? If it works it works 🤣
@@nomad0395 haha yeah, a ranger band! I’ve dropped the rifle in the dirt and everything and it’s kept going. So, hey! I actually had a case break on one from one after ratcheting it on too hard (my fault) and they sent me a replacement the next day after messaging them. So, I’m a somogear fan. They work and they’re relatively cheap.
Stayed the whole way thru, thank-you, very informative. Unfortunately it's even worse for us north of the border. Our options are Somogear or Holosun.
Just bought a PEQ-2 for 1k. Best bang for buck IR laser/illuminator imo for us civilians.
Holosun ls117ir, surefire m952v, and unity switch is a hell of a budget combo, alittle heavy but you can be out of the door with mounts for sub $800 for ir laser/illuminator and vis light
Is the m952v brighter than the m600v?
@@NateJRSattim honestly not sure but considering you can find them for ~$300 with a qd pic mount, the good tailcap, and tapeswitch; its really hard to beat the value, when i was looking i couldnt find any m300 or m600 for that price without the extras
I wish y’all had talked a little more about the holo lam units performance within civilian world. I have an ls123 that I got for 600 used and it’s great for the money. Super durable too and perfectly serviceable for most practical uses
Jk I commented before the last 10 min of the vid thx
Hop/Brass Facts, or NovaGroup doing a Tier List on ALL AR15/AR10 stocks and braces as far as comfort, function, build quality, etc.
Maybe one on Red Dots/1x optics
That’s cool that that particular PERST3 has a quick connect/ release.
A bit struck when Hop just put the EIR illuminator in F tier automatically without ever having tried one just based solely on the concept.
Just to mention to update Hop’s info because I used it maybe 6-8 months ago lol but Kosher/Custom NV has been out of 9007’s for months unless something changed in that time. I checked several months ago when you mentioned it and they were gone then and then checked again a few weeks ago and they were gone. Also, the B&H photo email me a price is also still going but it’s $1399 now. Still a great unit for that price in my opinion even with the size. I was out shooting a 2021 Peq-15 tonight and my D2 and honestly… I much prefer the performance of the d2 at least for what I do. Just hate the damn size man!!! WE NEED OGL! Cool video by the way
then I guess they've finally sold out. :(
@@BrassFacts I know man I felt the same way. I was like man Hop and Brass Facts always go on about these 9007’s I guess I’ll get one and throw it on a fun gun… nope lol
OGL and Somogear have a surprising amount of overlap: tons of civilian interest, cheap bastards constantly argue over each, lots of power, both filled with empty promises
have you used one/broken one? Because theyve been getting better at QC and I only hear good things about them.
I’ve heard people had good luck for 3-6 months and then the ejection molded plastic started to give way for many users. I believe BrassFacts broke his too with a video eventually coming out
I’m 6k rounds on one of my homogear and still flawless
@@arcaneculture948my only complaint about my somogear is that the illuminator spins in a circle when the focus is adjusted, and just doesn’t hold a zero for shit. Other than that? Fairly impressed for the fuck around unit that it is. It’s hilarious to compare the beam against a FP Dbal, the high setting on the somogear is barely brighter than the low of a real FP unit. But regardless, it does work admirably for what it is.
Brock and Hop, the most dynamic of duos!
I just bought a brand new 9007 i2. Didn't know they were so hard to find now. I should have bought 2.
HA! I just bought a LS321R and was sweating this whole time, now I feel better. :-) It's my first laser, I am just getting started out with NV, so I think I made a good choice. Good video, Thanks!
I'm too poor for this conversation but I'm here for it
Thank you hop for recommending the DBAL I2 9007.
I got one early this year at B&H photo. 😮💨 DBAL I2 is B tier for price performance and reliability, and if it was still available 😂
One thing I've heard about the MAWL from numerous people, however have not experienced as I don't own one (I use a PEQ-16B), is that it has parasitic drain on the batteries. Not that you should store your batteries in your several thousand dollar device, but that's pretty wack that from the second you start your mission your battery is being used. Hopefully it doesn't shit the bed when you actually need it.
yep, i've lit this thing up a couple times and it's just been empty.
The algorithm requires engagement
I buy the ToughSoul $39 IR laser (+ white light) and $24 IR intensifier off Amazon. They last about 2-3 range sessions or maybe 300 -500 rds each day. My laser white light $39 has been going nearly 2000 rs now... but I've already bought the replacement when it dies... Takes 2 minutes to replace... my motto why cry once when you can buy cheap + more ammo.
I hope innovation strikes the night vision industry hard so that night vision becomes as cheap and as common as weapon mounted lights.
Never going to happen 😂
I bought a Perst-2 before the prices went up, but never got night vision. It’s really powerful but it’s similar to a Luna Elir-3. It’s basically a illuminator that can screw into a pin size IR laser.
I’ve got a somo peq-15 that I had mounted to my 556 ar. My biggest complaint is how easily the laser adjustment screws turn. I can press my finger on them and they’ll rotate. There’s almost no detent at all. I heard that the pic rail mount is a significant failure point so I didn’t ugga dugga it when installing, but after one range session consisting of about 40 rounds, the entire unit was so loose that I’m surprised it didn’t fall off.
I just moved it to a pdw, but having an enormous box strapped to the side of what would have been a very minimalist setup is mildly frustrating. Which brings me back to watching this video from start to finish for a second time. I’m now looking for a better option for both the ar and the pdw. Leaning towards a D2 and holosun respectively.
Thank you for putting out S tier content day in and day out
I've been running a LS117IR and a vampire and I run the tape switch for the light on the 9 o'clock and the laser switch on the 12 o clock so I can activate both of them at the same time. It takes getting used to but the weight reduction i think is worth it. For close range targets with my budget too it works well but the illuminator struggles with distance past like 100 yards. Good video
Honest, I'm really looking forward to the somo gear NGAL. If it holds up well enough, it will be FP metal construction for under 500 beans. At least that would place it in the mid to low B-tier for me.
I'm gonna try one as well, if it breaks whatever, still an accurate prop
I’ve got a D2. Don’t forget to focus your illuminator as needed is all.
As someone that owns a DBAL D2 with an OTAL-C vampire combo on my loaner rifle I approve this list.
I just like to here these guys talk about actually legit topics in depth and items. Like guys talk about fantasy football.
I’d like to see this updated with the new somogear ngal. And the new batches not the first. I’ve gotta say I’m really impressed with build quality
Dude they will crap on it. They didn’t even give the peq any credit. Said it’s a toy.
Brass thank you. I’m about 15 minutes until home
I have a D2 currently. Happy with it for the cash. Looking to snag the Eotech when it drops. Looks solid.
According to TNVC, you can still buy the ATPIAL-C. It’s just backordered for 8+ months and now the price of a D2.
Only thing I don't like about my perst 3 is the laser tends to bloom a bit on the lowest setting, that and not waterptoof.
What about a tier list for muzzle devices? Could stick with one type, or you could just rank all the major ar-15 muzzle deviced. A tier list for optics would be nice too. Especially LPVOs
Have you broken an Ls m3, been using them for the past few months and all of my samples have held up. Tested quite a few of them. I’m interested in what laserspeed does in the future because the price to power rate is un matched. For me I’m gonna stick to the ngal, nothings better at any price point. I think the only civ powered laser that can ever be considered is the d2.
Since full power lasers are considered medical devices by the FDA, couldn't a licensed physician be certified to purchase a full power laser or are there additional restrictions beyond just them being classified as medical devices?
no idea. Would be pretty funny if that was the case though
this gave me a great amount of information on my decision should i get an IR device. Especially the 2nd of the tier lists. will go with the holosun or the dbal d2. and IF i feel like spending more on a holosun equivalent, the HLAD and even then it be for the looks. not the best reasoning i know, but at least i have the info on what it really is.
Thank for the video, it was educative.
However in my mind Perst-4 was slightly underrated, I mean if you have a combination of the Perst 4 and surefire vampir, you get pretty cheap package ( considering that you still can get a perst in around 800 hundred bucks), weight wise it will be around 300 grams. Which is similar to the 3 in 1 devices, and even lighter considering that with them most still prefer to add a separate white light.
Another benefit that I can think of is modularity as if your light and IR laser are separate devices, you can remove one when you don’t need and makes your rifle somewhat lighter.
At the same time I am just a noob that transitions from airsoft night setup to the real world, and at the time I was in military the only night device we had was 1.5 kilos Soviet night scope.
Therefore if I missed some underwater stones with my comment please let me know.
As (probably) the only 420 user, I wish you guys recognized it's totally at least half a tier above the other Holosuns but I'm just glad you remembered at all
Does it take 18650 ?
@@BobBob-il2ku Yes it does! 1x 18650 or has a sleeve to insert for use with 2x CR123A
The surefire vampires are not able to be ordered due to law enforcement contracts. I called with my own personal account number for LE/MIL discounts and they would not sell me one and said outright that's why. They instead sold me a 640v and added a surefire pressure switch.
Well done. D2 actual size, GOLD.
Gotta get the NV video in before Pride Month ends 🏳️🌈
How does the NGAL compare to the Raid XE FP? Better or worse?
What’s your opinion on the Trijicon VCOG? I like the idea of the ACOG durability in an LPVO
well, I have a review done. So you'll have to wait and see.
Personally, I didn't like it that much,.
Plz tell me you guys have seen 4MR ranches new video
So from watching this I have learned one thing: Literally zero manufacturer makes a laser aiming manual that has the laser centered inline with the barrel but is instead to the offset to the right or left. Would honestly think that manufacturers would center the laser with the barrel when mounted and then offset the Illuminator to the right or left so that you can parallel zero the laser easier with a bore sight and squaring block to get the distance between bore and laser right:
Wish they would include the invisible sight ngal but I guess it’s hard to even get your hands on it
It would be great for a comparison in this for the Meprolight MOR PRO, I like the concept as it's a natural light plus battery illuminator sight plus it comes with a red or green laser and IR pointer and it's the primary weapons sight so it's not adding extra weight and bulk to the business end of the rifle.
I sold my PVS14 in hopes to move up to binos. Will be needing to upgrade my ir laser unit. Great vid!
Are you going to go with the 31's?
Got your frog patch two days ago. The first two letters didn't get printed so I got a package from ass Facts
hot
Have a 01/2023 Manufcatured 3eir IR-V.....the coalignment on the Vis/IR laser is off 4" high and 1" left
Just emailed 3eir for an RMA about 2 hours ago.
SUCKS!
This is both hilarious and awesome.
Thank you for giving me a reference video
It would have been nice to have the names of the products with the pictures 🤷🏾♂️
Taking notes for someday in the future when I get one
I love long form content and hope to get more. However, there better be a post credits Nova at the end or I riot.
ok 99% agree with him...done the "research" and with that being said...the "airsoft" laser yall are just hating here for no reason other than it not "real" lazer ooooh, with that being said personal experience with it as the potted, upgraded switch and diffuser( i know ive spent more money on the upgrades than its worth) with all that its certainly in the middle of B and C tiers just cuz its got ~20+mw and its signature on my rig. there rant over.
This video is a God send!!!
Thanks for confirming my purchase lol
****Nova’s opinion > Brock’s opinion > Hop’s opinion
Hello Mr. Brass Facts, did you check out the primary arms slx 3-18 in the Athena and Apollo reticle? It's the same price as the 2.5-10 with the griffin reticle. I was just wondering if the 3-18 would be a better option for an spr optic than the 2.5-10?
oh boy here I go down the rabbit hole
D2 to rule the world.
I'm really interested in the NGAL and the OGL. My fear though is that L3 is going to fuck up the NGAL by gimping the illuminator the way they did on the ATPIAL-C. If you can't focus it, the illuminator is essentially worthless.
This is the first I'm hearing about a civi NGAL. When did they announce that?
@@squirreltakular9049 It's been rumored for awhile now. I'm not even sure where that rumor originated from or if there were any concrete announcements about it.