Gil's Arena DESTROYS JJ Redick For Disrespecting Jordan
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- Опубліковано 2 тра 2024
- Gil's Arena DESTROYS JJ Redick For Disrespecting Michael Jordan as Gilbert Arenas & The Gil's Arena Crew react to JJ saying that MJ's era was watered down compared to today and debate if the NBA media is on a mission to discredit old hoopers and pave the way for LeBron to over take the NBA Goat Debate.
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I don't understand what this obsession is with discrediting Michael Jordan these days.
CAUSE THEY WANT HIS ATTENTION AND BAITING HIM TO SPEAK OUT IN RETALIATION...
To put LBJ over MJ
@@lcasanova2546no one thinks MJ is going to respond to them cuz he hasn’t done that in decades pal. Why do people discredit Lebron? Why do people discredit Kobe? Y’all just be waffling
Lebron is about to retire and they want him to have a valid goat case and the majority of people on social media now are not old enough to see MJ play
90s aren’t as good as everyone says they were. That’s not discrediting anything accomplished back then, it’s being realistic.
MFs out here taking 5 steps with no traveling call. But this is the best Basketball era.
Skill wise yes by a long shot look at just the spacing from 2013 to now shooting is a skill the nba implemented euro rules where you get a gather step before your 2 steps
@@sebastianlang6314 You just described one way the NBA watered the rules down to artificially advance the game and enhance viewership... And the skills you're talking about are based on the past. NBA trainers look at the things that worked and didn't work the last 10 years for former NBA players. And train current players to do the moves that work. So those advanced skills are only there because of people watching the past. So I do agree offensive skills are at a all time high. But I also understand that it's based on the watering down of officiating and NBA rules. Allowing NBA level athletes more freedom of movement and space.
@@sebastianlang6314 When was the last time you seen a ref call carry or traveling? Not blaming players I'm just saying. This is a watering down of the rules that makes players look more skilled and increases scoring.
Last time I checked, double dribbling, traveling, and carrying the ball shows a lack of skill. Players today get a gather step, but the refa srill refuse to call steps in adition to the gather step. That simply a lack of the most basic basketball skills. The skill players have today is greater shooting, but it comes at the expense of proper ball handling and defense. Look at the 2004 Pistons, a modern team that played locked down defense. 2020 teams and players simply lack that
@@rusone2516 I’ve seen it this playoffs and the play in and the regular season. Every single man on the roster can contribute on offense back then they had dudes who couldn’t do anything and was there just to foul. Remember how everyone reacted when kd was about to go to the league now everyone has kd skill set the game evolved perfect offense always trumps perfect defense
If any era is watered down, it's this one. Play -ins. In season tournaments. Load management. Traveling/Carrying. Klutch sports clients all over the NBA and media.
Facts bunch of wimps in today’s league anyway
That part
And throw in 2 way players in today's league. Is that top talent.
Why can't they ALL be great n just leave it at that? 🤷🏿
That klutch sports line brought out all the lebron hate in you lol
They added 6 teams for a total of 72 roster spots over MJ's era. In 2006 (the year JJ got drafted), the in-active list was added which made room for 3 extras on each of the 30 teams. That's 90 extra roster spots. By JJ's logic, his own era was more watered down than MJ's.
Wow excellent point, but he'll never bring that up
Adding 3 ppl to an extra roster doesn't really change. But when you're adding extra teams, adding players to those teams w no experience of nba play, and you playing them as competition for a title. The extra 3 in 06 still don't really even play
Ehhh that’s basically just reserves lol you got that on any team even in little league
@@mikevick9581They drafted from other teams. How did adding teams make players inexperienced?😂 You’re telling me these teams drafted nothing but rookies?😭
No! they drafted from other teams. The players deserved to be in the league. Look at the expansion grizzlies team.
McCants is proving the fundamental flaw in the goat debate. Some people are answering the question of who’s the best, and some people are answering the question of who they like more.
6 rings in 13 years.
4 rings in 21 years and counting.
What’s the debate?
@@uncleb7821they don't get it
@@uncleb7821 bill russell 11 rings in 13 years whats the debate?
@@uncleb7821 11 rings in 13 years… if that’s how we’re deciding you’re right there is no debate it’s Bill Russell and it’s not close
@uncleb7821 so we're only comparing rings? We are not looking at the total resume? Which includes the non championship seasons as well as measuring their competition
Why is everyone forgetting about Kareem?
3 National Championships
6 NBA Championships
6 MVP’s
Kareem was never in the goat debate until they wanted the scoring record to matter for Lebron’s goat case
@@Augrillsgrowing up in the 80s kareem was definitely in the goat debate, we just didn’t call it that back then, nobody considered jordan until he started winning, even now some still do argue 33 is the goat
Exactly… I’m 46 and grew up in Chicago watching us get whooped by Detroit for the longest. I remember they always had questions about MJ..can he play Defense? Can he win Defensive POY? Can he shoot consistently? Can he make teammates better? He checked all the boxes, but it took time. Kareem, Magic, Bird, Isaiah were already established. My 2 best are MJ and Kareem!!! Everyone else is a tier below in my opinion.
Won’t be compared until wemby starts winning and getting rings, they compare by similarities and position for the most part… you’ll never hear James harden getting compared to Anthony Davis etc
Because it's fan base vs. Fan Base (not actually player vs. Player comparison).
Jordan also had a GM who sabotaged a potential 4+ peat.
Facts 💯
The league bribed, to democratize winning 🥇
George Karl and chip Kelly. The worst coaches in professional sports history
how did he dow as a gm?
@@blade4174 Who cares.
What about Tim Duncan? 5 titles in 6 finals appearances? Championships in 3 different decades? Played with one team his whole career. Has the highest win percentage in NBA history?
Its always gonna be hard to argue against the guy with two 3peats. MJ kept Hall of Famers from getting rings, while everybody got a ring off Lebron head.
Kept hall of famers prime hall of famers? Who other than Scottie was in their prime ? Back then 30 was old.
Mick also worked with 2 other hall of famers on each of them.
@@denowattley6602 im sorry Kucoc did what in the NBA? Rodman. Was past his prime. Scottie was drafted to the Bulls. Lebron had guys averaged 26 and 12 before, and back then age 30 was considered old that was one of many reasons he retired.
@@lancehood7916 sure keep telling yourself that. You might eventually believe your own bullshit. Jordan is the GOAT in any era…deal with it
@@alexandermarquez2177 Jordans my Goat as well your comment looked like you were saying he had a bunch of help
Like how they glossed over him saying Kobe averaging 35 is no big deal 😂 May not be big deal nowadays but back then defence was still alive.
Facts! Raja the arch nemesis 😂
He had to go up against the Kobe stopper Ruben Patterson
Also don't forget how bad that Lakers team was.....he was chucking shots like he Bradley Beal in Washington
@@AMC12345 He was shooting like 47-48% field goal percentage while being a double team, which is really efficient . Also, if you really watched laker games he always shot whent clock was about to expire or every quarter chucking it got lucky. If you notice NBA doesn't do that as much because over 82 it drops your percentage for 3 pointers.
💯
The league wasn't watered down. They had an expansion draft. It was a draft of players already in the league.
JJ clearly doesn’t comprehend how an expansion draft works
The league was exactly watered down because of that. JJ is right that they added new players to the league but the number is 72 not 90. Expansion draft means they took players from existing teams so now other teams had to replace players with people who weren't currently playing in the NBA. Expansion draft didn't change the fact 72 new roster spots were created it just means they were spread across various teams.
So the new teams stunk for a few years (in the case of the Grizzlies, 9 years) and the new teams had a moratorium on how high they could pick in the lottery so the new teams were guaranteed to be bad for a few years. Now other teams lost depth because of the expansion draft so yes, the league was watered down.
@@rpbnsthey didn't lose depth if those guys were still in the league they were getting rid of guys who weren't playing anyway. It's not like teams went from 15 men to 9 lol they would still have like 12/13 players and they would just pick up new bench warmers that didn't play 🤷. You can say it was weaker because those players were now starters and didn't deserve to be but watered down is just not factual. Everyone drafted was already an NBA player
@@itsmeflacko1618 This is a ridiculous take. If you create 72 new nba jobs, which is what happens when you add 6 teams, those 72 players are made up of dudes who weren't in the NBA. Doesn't matter if you scatter those new 72 players around across all the teams.
If you lost the 8th best player on your team, everyone else moves up and the last guy is replaced by someone who wasn't even in the league. Add to that you now have teams created to fail for years. That waters down the league.
@@rpbns that's where you and JJ are wrong. They didn't gain 72 new players, all of the players were already in the league or about to be drafted to the league or free agents. Think of the Charlotte bobcats, their first roster was a bunch of NBA guys that teams either had on expiring contracts or just didn't want like Gerald Wallace and Jason kapono. Then they drafted emeka the next year, there's nobody stepping in from off the street to play. Think about it like this, if they made an expansion team today it would have players like thanasis and Jeff Green and boban, etc. guys who are in the NBA but nobody really wants or cares for
McCants had me rollin with that serial killer analogy! Hahahaha... "FBI ain't looking for you. He didn't mean it" 😂😂😂😂
Bron fans always want to say that the rings are a team accomplishment, but then say that Bron made it to 8 straight finals like that isn't a team accomplishment 😂
Because he carried to get to a lot of those like 07 and 18
Because everybody who really watch basketball nd don’t get Dey opinion frm highlights nd instagram kno Lebron literally had to carry his franchise y do ppl like to ignore that fact🤦♂️
2 of 10 not a lot man..lol@@masonbg6
@Noluvcitykezo all the greats carried their franchise
Great point!!!!
What's funny is that all these Bron fans claim that 90s was full of "plumbers" but yet in todays NBA literally no one can dribble a basketball without double dribbling, carrying, or traveling
@ai…
That’s just a scary level of delusion… to try and slight the 90’s to by default prop up Lebron. It’s like they didn’t even watch his career.
03-04 - no playoffs
04-05 - no playoffs
05-06 Chauncey, Rip, ‘Sheed,
06-07 TDuncan, Ginobili, Finley, BB
07-08 KG, PPierce, Ray Allen
08-09 -
09-10 KG, PPierce, *Ray Allen
10-11 JKidd, Dirk
90’s players are the biggest reason why Lebron didn’t end his season with a win til almost a decade in (2012)… why he started 0-2 in the Finals… and also *why he did not start 1-4.
Lebron didn’t get his first win in the Finals til ‘12 when he played OKC… and what kind of roster did OKC have, a no 90’s players roster.
He didn’t start win-ing til those (and other) 90’s players (Shaq, Kobe) were all older and outta the way/done winning.
The plumbers quote was for the 50s and 60s 70s era not the 90s
Literally no one says the 90s, it's pre merger that JJ and people who make that point are talking about. And it's because they were literally plumbers, back then the players had to have other jobs, some of which was plumbing.
Huh?
Gil criticized JJ for not being accurate, then credits MJ’s defense to Phil Jackson. MJ won his Defensive Player of the Year with Doug Collins as his HC.
Former Duke player trashing a former UNC player? Didn't see that coming........🙄
Funny how as soon as people align themselves with Bron they start 🧢n
Kobe studied Jordan's defense before he made it to the NBA, Payton added hand placement to it
So
Facts
People forget to mention those expansion teams became playoff teams in a really short amount of time:
Orlando Magic - Shaq and Penny (playoff team)
Charlotte Hornets - Alonzo Mourning, Larry Johnson, Glenn Rice (playoff team)
Miami Heat - Alonzo Mourning (traded from Charlotte), Tim Hardaway (playoff team)
Minnesota Timberwolves - Kevin Garnett, Stephon Marbury (playoff team)
Toronto Raptors - Damon Stoudamire, Vince Carter (playoff team)
Compare those teams to the tanking teams of today, which of them is watering down the league?
Kendall Gill was on that Charlotte team too.
The rules are so loose now. Remember A.I. use to get called for traveling sometimes when he introduced the modern cross over. Gather steps and euro steps was traveling back in Jordans day. Now you barely have to dribble the basketball lol. It is a totally different game. It was way harder to scroe back then. You had to pull up after one dribble. No step back, gather step to create separation.
Playing with everyone at your camps got me in tears 😂 Bron really had damn near players as kids from his camps on most his squads thru out his career. Crazy fact lmao
Its way too much respect for Bron out there lol
Like who? Yall be yapping yet giving no names. Brons whole issue with Cleveland is no one wanting to go there lmfao worst from office of all time
And Shaq is right Kobe should be in the conversation
@@bigcohiba298 everytime he should be. JJ Redick perception of basketball is good at times but he not on que with this one.
@@thomasturner5225 I think he overrated tbvh. Basketball is basketball it's not nuclear physics, it's not brain surgery but a lot of times he tries to sound like basketball is more complex than it is and that already makes him an ineffective communicator or teacher of the game. Guys like him would be humbled pretty quickly if they got into coaching
Period. Mike, Kobe, and A.i. killer instant alone motivated and inspired millions of kids to pick up a basketball and play. I've never been in a gym, and heard anyone yell LeBron while driving to the basket, passing, or flopping. Lol their greatness alone still inspire generation after generation. Some imprints left on the game just can't be matched
We're witnessing it now with Anthony Edwards. I think he's next up.
you cant replicate what lebron does with that ball!!!
MJ, Kobe and AI are my favorite player because the way they play makes you want to play basketball
You sound stupid
You're speaking the truth, bro. I want to be Mike and kobe. They inspired many filipinos to pick up the basketball and play. Even today, Jordan and Kobe are still inspired by many filipinos.
Gil is confusing himself when he’s talking about comparison. 😂 🤣
I grew up in the 90's, I remember what the game was going into the decade and what it was going out of the decade... there is no debate for me... I know who I'm rolling with.
-- i started watching in '99...My favorites are Bird and Hakeem. MJ is the GOAT. Lebron is an incredible player whose the love child of Magic and Malone, lol.
Magic is a great winner. Malone? Great regular season guy...
Jordan never had to pay ppl to put him in the goat conversations..
SA and skip: hell yeah.
The league did it for him
Lol they labeled him the goat after 91 with only one ring…. The nba marketed the hell out of jordan they needed to continue the magic and larry viewership….. jordan brought those viewers in
@@212keith, true, but I'm from that era AND Chicago when MJ came in. Jordan came in and SHOCKED the LEAGUE. No coverage like now, no Internet, the league had NO IDEA he'd avg 28 pts, dunking on everybody, he was DIFFERENT. EVRYONE SAW IT. No one moved like Jordan. ON THE COURT, EVERYONE could see the explosiveness, athleticism, hang time, grace, Competitiveness, the charisma, the cockiness, no one did it better. He's the TEMPLATE of every player now in the intangibles
Neither did Kobe
Ion even like Mccant but man that last analogy was really on point🤣. He got off with that one
It never ceases to amaze me at the ignorance stated often on here. No woman or Jenner was drafted during Jordan's era. That was in the mid-70s when teams did things to get attention, never planning on playing them, but instead to get some short term publicity!
Most of this clip sounds ignorant and incoherent.
That was Gil's point. That BEFORE Jordan's reign you had a bunch of pointless drafted players. He never said it was in the 90s.
Seems like you're the ignorant one
Where can I watch the rest of this please!!! 😂😂
The end arguement killed me.... lebum drove with his headlights off and hit somebody while MJ and Kobe hunted u down through a forest.... pretty accurate discription..... i'd add that they did it while letting u know they coming for u
5 rings. Kobe was the best player twice Lol foh
Kobe never won a DPOY out of discussion
Nah fuck all dat , did homie in the beginning say “ABOUT THE GOAT DICC” 😂😂😂
😂😂😂
100% said that
lmao ah wtf
Lmfaooo bro I just said the same shit. Lmaooo wtf?!
😂😂😂😂
Players drafted during this so-called watered down era: Shaquille O'Neal, Penny, Tim Hardaway, Larry Johnson, Glen Rice, BJ Armstrong, Shawn Kemp, Nick Anderson, Vlade Divac, Mitch Richmond, Rod Strickland, Gary Payton, Kendall Gill, Dikembe Mutombo, Steve Smith, Dale Davis, Greg Anthony, Stacy Augmon, Robert Horry, Alonzo Mourning, Chris Webber, Jamal Mashburn, Sam Cassell, Allan Houston, Grant Hill, Jason Kid, Glenn Robinson, Jalen Rose, Eddie Jones, Juwan Howard, Kevin Garnett, Rasheed Wallace, Michael Finley, Jerry Stackhouse. And let's not even forget the star veterans on the team.
lol I guarantee you that you don't get a respond to this because it's facts and ppl like to always argue against facts with theories
@@Rambo20244 There's no retort. And if it is, it'll be a bonehead statement. I don't even know why I bother, man.
Yeah people forget to mention those expansion teams became playoff teams in a really short amount of time:
Orlando Magic - Shaq and Penny (playoff team)
Charlotte Hornets - Alonzo Mourning, Larry Johnson, Glenn Rice (playoff team)
Miami Heat - Alonzo Mourning (traded from Charlotte), Tim Hardaway (playoff team)
Minnesota Timberwolves - Kevin Garnett, Stephon Marbury (playoff team)
Toronto Raptors - Damon Stoudamire, Vince Carter (playoff team)
Compare those teams to the tanking teams of today, which of them is watering down the league?
@@One.Zero.One101 yep ppl also forget that one of those expansion teams were the only team to knock the bulls out of the playoffs in the 90s... but the jordan haters always tell half the truth
For Gilbert Arernas, being articulate means being loud 😂
“You playing with everybody who at your damn skills camp!” 😂😂
Idk why but this cracked me up lmaoo
It’s the truth tho
@@jaysouthmusic8230except it’s not lol most of them don’t want to go to bum ass Cleveland lol
@@felixalfaro3119when the last time lebron played for Cleveland?
That "Lebron ran over some innocent bystanders and kept going" analogy was gold 🤣
nah it was dumb. Didn’t make any sense, people who are Jordan/Kobe c*cksuckers are usually the human beings with the lowest iq
Gil is 100% right. Break down each category and give it a SABCDF category rating. Coaching. Rings. Accolades. Stats. Help on the court. Even as far as how much the teammates like him.
I get it. You have to have a control group or a similar condition to measure against in an experiment/comparison . Its like saying I have 50 inch vertical jump "but only when I use my own ruler". We should use the same rulers or else it is moot, semantics or biased.
“Watered down” is when you create rules to help the offense in order to create more excitement around the game to garner more views.
“Watered Down” is making the game less physical so your favorite players can play longer and be more marketable for the league.
“Watered Down” is when all 30 teams play with the same offensive scheme.
That’s not watering it down. That’s just putting an emphasis on offense. Back then you could argue it was a more defensive emphasis given the rules. Not watered down, just different rules.
This it's the same for the NFL people push the game is evolving when it really isn't they are making it more offensive friendly
You realize Jordans era they was still giving it to Bill Cartwright on the block passed his prime lol
Like they did with Jordan?
Gil complaining 37% of the expansion players played 3 years or less. The average NBA player today plays 4 years or less. Plus the NBA today has tons of 2-way players who are just G-leaguers with NBA credentials. The "Watered Down" debate is silly.
Not really because Jordan fanboys claim how strong the NBA was in the 1990's and alot of us who remember the 1990's call BS
This is a really simple concept to understand. When you add that many new teams to a league in such a short span of time it’s bound to dilute the overall product as vastly superior teams are going to inflate their records by beating down the newcomers. Please feel free to take at look at the standings from back then, the evidence is quite clear. Neither the Hornets, Heat, Grizzlies, Wolves or Raptors eclipsed 40 wins in their first four seasons. The Magic was the only team to do it, going 41-41 during their fourth season after totaling just 70 wins over the span of their first 3.
Lastly, how is this at all comparable to the average two-way G-League player who might play a total of 200 minutes in an entire season? There are no teams in the league today that are comprised of mostly G-League players.
Russell can dominate paint not whole court
@@theeAListerfacts all it takes is a quick Google search
15 man roster now vs 12, 4 years vs 3, so an extra year. And a bunch of g leaguers, you're literally proving it's more watered down now given more guys that are only staying 1 year longer.
0:04 …….soooooo we gonna let that slip up pass?😂
I caught that
JJ said he doesn't care but then he blackmailed MJ and praised Lebron. What an idiot.
Correction!!!! MJ was so good and had such a great impact on the league and the world that he provided an opportunity for such an expansion!!! The league hasn’t expanded on LeBron’s watch!!! MJ all day! JJ your perspective is off my guy…
Name all of the best shooting guards Jordan faced
Agreed. He expanded on the appeal of and excitement for the game that started to take off when Magic and Bird came on the scene, taking it to another level. David Stern was savvy enough to recognize this and market it, not just in the US, but around the world. That interest led to more teams and a bigger talent pool concurrently - more international players, more players coming out of college early and straight out of high school. The game had also become steadily more athletic, which further expanded its appeal and attracted more talent to the game. A good example is the old question and answer, “where are all the talented tight ends we used to see coming to the NFL? They’re power forwards in the NBA.” It wasn’t talent dilution caused by expansion. It was talent infusion that enabled expansion.
Agreed. He expanded on the appeal of and excitement for the game that started to take off when Magic and Bird came on the scene, taking it to another level. David Stern was savvy enough to recognize this and market it, not just in the US, but around the world. That interest led to more teams and a bigger talent pool concurrently - more international players, more players coming out of college early and straight out of high school. The game had also become steadily more athletic, which further expanded its appeal and attracted more talent to the game. A good example is the old question and answer, “where are all the talented tight ends we used to see coming to the NFL? They’re power forwards in the NBA.” It wasn’t talent dilution caused by expansion. It was talent infusion that enabled expansion.
Gil's such a hypocrite = if JJ wasn't being disrespectful, it would be Gil saying something similar
Crazy thing is…. He HAS lmaooooooooo
@@DjGaiden 🤣🤣🤣🤦🏾♂️
@@DjGaiden i think he said it like a month ago or so 😂
Gil staying on code,cant let that white man diminish Jordan😅
😮🤫🤔
This was a refreshingly honest convo.. nobody was dead set biased on anything it flowed great and keep it in reality without diminishing anybody. Really good guys
It does not matter because Jordan's teammates were watered down. Jordan never had a collapse against anyone.
I love how MJ just give the goat debate any time of day. His work speaks for itself and the people speak for him. He also gave the ultimate respect for the players of the past…thats the difference.
Exactly. Lebron not the best. Mj is basically the most entertaining to watch, he's more competitive.
How is lebron greater when everyone rather watch MJ AND MJ won more? And MJ has better stats overall.... lebron just averaged 1 more rebound and 2 more assists... mj beats lebron in every other stat
@@grizzlymac-tight Yes having 2 more assists actually means you generate more points for your team to make up the difference in ppg so that argument is stupid.
@@suegsprBron also averaged 2 more turnovers..look at +/- Jordan dominates him
@@Silencedfixer well he’s the playmaker of the team I would expect it to be that way
@@Silencedfixer +/- is a team stat bro. Jordan had the best team in the league and was always the favorite in his prime. It’s not his fault but you can’t hold it against bron either. If you’re gonna compare players and eras then you gotta take every little thing into consideration.
"Lebron was jus speeding with his headlights off and he hit an innocent bystander and he kept going" 😂 ngl that shit got me.
Aye! Real talk tho! He made plenty of sense and was also accurate AF!!
The realest shit I heard 💯🔥
"The FBI ain't looking for you bro.... They're looking for us..." 🤣🤣
I’m going to be honest…I’m with McCants 100% on this one with EVERYTHING he said. 🎯‼️🔥
What about when Phil lost? How the hell are you attaching the coach to the players achievements??? Was it Phil who stole the ball from Malone and made the game winning shot?
Was it Spolestra who melted down in 2011 vs the mavs?
Don’t bring the coaches into this equation.
This NBA is the most watered down it’s ever been! The lack of Defense is glaring, LeBron travels every time he touches the ball but it’s never called! It’s hysterical!
I'm weak 😂 😂😂😂😂😂
Rashad said Bron speeding with his headlights of hits innocent bystander like oops and kept going 😂😂😂😂
Real talk. The difference in people who follow and play the sport compared to people who only play video games or watch highlights and put in their 2 cents in the GOAT debate
Soooo this is how JJ Redick got that podcast with Lebron! JJ SMOKING ROCKS 😂😂😂😂😂😂
While you’re riding MJ every night like an addict
Nah I just think he unbiased
@@justchillin2194oh yeah he's unbiased. Podcast with perceived Goat?, possible Lakers coaching. Candidate. Yeah he's unbiased. Lol.
JJ is a professional jock strap.
Lol if he said MJ better den Bron the show would get canceled 😂
5 rules that changed defense is what made modern NBA watered down. It wasn't watered down in the 90s. It was tougher because guys who may have sucked were hired to be hitmen. The NBA doesn't want that type of play, so in the late 2000s, they decided to add and change rules that took that type of play out of the game. It's so bad now that even the league is questioning if they went too far with the rules. Todays NBA is watered down.
That's a solid argument for why the physicality of the league is watered down. But I don't see how the rules changing or refs calling the game differently would affect the average skill level of nba players. If a ref makes it easier to score, then it is now harder to defend. If a ref makes it easier to defend, it is now harder to score. Either way the average level of skill of the players would not change in either scenario.
They allow traveling and all kinds of dribble errors now too
It was clearly more watered down then because there were less skilled players in that era. It's really not that big of deal. A lot of players in past era's wouldn't be a water boy in today's league. They beat the shit out of MJ and other players in past era's. MJ going to the commissioner to express his issues with that type of play ushered in the beginning of more fouls being called up to what we have today. Players were forced to become more skilled basketball players because enforcer's were outlawed.
So you are saying 1. There was less talent in the 90s because players were hired because they were physical...but not actually good at basketball 2. What rules specifically did they change to make it "watered down"? If anything, getting rid of the illegal defense helped make offense and defense more equal. 3. What is the "type of play" you are talking about? You do understand the 3pt shot was the main reason teams are not being as "physical" (which is not exactly true actually) than before right? Because...you can exploit it.
I completely disagree that today's nba is "watered down". I know you would just name things like not calling travels or carries or too strict on flagrants, all of which can be true, but every player has the same precedent. The talent in the NBA has never been higher and the most parity I have seen in years. When 6 new teams joined throughout MJ's career, it DID water down the league. Those players on those teams were players who wouldn't make the current teams. The regular season would have been a bit easier for the current group of players. Now of course that doesn't change the playoffs which JJ mentioned. This would have an affect on regular season wins and stats though. This is why it is dumb to compare players from different eras.
@@carontorliak2760 seems like the issue is with the phrase "watered down". That era was easier just like the era before that one. Gilbert implies this fact a lot so I'm not sure why he's so but hurt about it.
Here’s a fact. When Jordan was at his peak from 1991 to 1998, the only HOF SGs who were in their primes who Jordan had to matchup against on both sides of the court were Clyde, Mitch Richmond, and Reggie Miller.
Additionally, none of those players are considered the top 5 at the SG position outside of Jordan.
This in and of itself implies that at a minimum, Jordan was matched up against watered down talent at his position.
Comparing coaches? Then compare hopping teams ans picking your teammates.
I think this was Mccants best segment “you playing against everybody that was in your camps” that got me 😂
Mccants point may have had so validity to it about “Mike just played who was in front of him” so why don’t the people give Bill Russell the same respect winning 11 chips in HIS era but jordan fans disrespect Bill Russell by saying his era was watered down.
Because he wasn't the best player on those championship teams, only thing I can think of
@@gerbilbaby242 he indeed was the best player on the team, guarding the other teams best player example wilt chamberlain in most of those finals he beat him in, he was the anchor of their defense and Boston’s center piece for their success. See how y’all try to find any loop hole. He got more chips that jordan, same amount of mvps, more finals appearances? See how dat work but when bron fans use the same logic y’all bring the same exact shit up 🤷♂️🤣🤣🤣🤣
@johnjovanovichwick4194 I'm speaking of the lack of finals mvps
Also one of his mvps he was only 2nd team all nba.
I'm not arguing I'm just pointing out some things
@@gerbilbaby242Finals MVPS were started in 1969
@@gerbilbaby242He was easily the best player 😂 he averaged 15 points and TWENTY TWO REBOUNDS. 22 REBOUNDS. That’s more than anyone EVER.
The fact that the league is filled with kids fresh out of high school that never lived up to their potential proves the league is more watered down then ever
I fw this pod so much 👌 GET GIL ON FIRST TAKE
Great answer Brandon......
Lmao. The classic reply.
Anything that happened white you were a child or before you were born you shouldn’t have an opinion on then Lmao.
Phil didn’t create The Triangle. Tex Winters created the Triangle
Phil made it famous lol
That whole car and hunting analogy was one of the worst I’ve ever heard.
The Goat debate is getting ridiculous, and boring.
So why does every one say Jordan had a hall of fame coach. Jordan never had a hall of fame coach. Jordan made phill a hall of famer
That part
Phil created the triangle offense to help Mike ima Jordan fan but Phil was a hell of a coach for the bulls
@@rashanrevell6097yo, it was Tex Winters who initially created the Triangle Offense. and applied it with Phil to the Bulls.
Phil hadn't won anything before MJ and MJ still was MJ!
No matter how good you are but your coach is stupid and the system flawed, you can only get too far. If MJ was drafted by charlotte he probably will get 2 championships his whole career at best.
Rashad McCants has the most sense in this show all the time.
If you are an idiot.
Facts by simply common sense
@@XtremeproductsRashad isn't emboldened by Cutch Sports.
@@diplomat249 true
And the other guys all treat him like he doesn't know what he's talking about. I don't get it.
The term "g.o.a.t." is what's been watered down. They call anyone who has a decent showing at anything a "goat". It's silly now. The metric should be this; Take all accolades and career accomplishments away and you gauge the debate like this; Put the universal Top 10 players on the same court at the same time with all 10 at their absolute peak and 9 of the players on that court would tell you "MJ ruled us all" and that's where the theoretical debates should end. Most players today don't even think LeBron is the greatest. Just the pups.
I wish I could come on the show and spit fax with you guys because all I know is I’m a basketball servant and I would love to share facts with you guys
They said the same thing back then. People just stop talking about it.❤
Yeah and it wasn’t just basketball. I watched some old MLB video from the early 90s and at the time they had just added the Colorado Rockies and the Miami(Florida) Marlins and the people in the video said verbatim that it would at least in the short term water down the league because guys who probably weren’t good enough to be an everyday player became one, guys who had no business being in a teams rotation all of sudden were pitching 20 plus games and guys who weren’t ready to be called up from AA and AAA got called up. These guys were MLB players but there was a reason they were made available
Another Win For Rashad Bro Be Giving Gill That Work When It Comes To That Goat Debate Talk It’s Just People Dont Like Rashad So They Dont Hear Him Out
this version of Gil's Arena argue based on fact in this age of fake news and false information will be legendary on the podcast and media industry!
The greatest players of the NBA never talk trash about the previous era. That's all you need to know about JJ Redick
crazy how expansion teams watered the league down but tanking, failed high schoolers, 1-and-dones & crapping out on thousands of players from overseas didn’t..
I can’t lie Rashad & Gil are the funniest duo in comedy right now. That convo at the end was pure 24-karat gold. 😂
But Rashad be speaking facts
I think gil should be an coach
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Gil trying to play Jedi Mind Tricks on McCants. It’s still a competition brother.🤣
Gil argues about dudes who were drafted who didn’t even play in NBA as an argument that the league was watered down.
I wanna wear Michael Jordan’s, I wanna be in the space jam movie. 😂😭😂😭😂
Bro the way he said it to 😂😂😂😂
Lmaoo 😂😂😂
Ain’t Gil the same person that said the 80-90s wasn’t shit even tho I disagree
Well he didn’t denied this claim.
He talking relative to their era on this topic.
McCants broke down the GOAT debate better than I’ve ever heard anyone do it. If youre constantly comparing your new girl to your old girl, it’s going to lead to headaches. NFL understands this and that’s why they dominate ratings.
LeBron is a good player, just lack the instinct to " Demand the 🏀 in the last quarter ( when his team is down) and Win the game off individual effort / refusal to Lose " that's why LeBron can't be considered better than Michael Jordan or Kobe Bryant 🤦🤦🤦🤦
Dirk, Nash, Kobe, Carter, McGrady all played in the 90s when Mike was around. 90s was real. J. J. need to stop it.
They played at the end of Jordan career
Shaq's first year was 92-93 too , jj trying to hard to sound smart
LMAO…what?!
Nash - 96
Dirk - 98
Kobe - 96
Carter - 98
McGrady - 97
Jordan truly retired 98….. NONE of those guys mattered yet! Kobe didn’t even start his rookie season.. and averaged 7.6 point, 1.9 boards and 1.3 assists…. Nash averaged 3.3 points 2.1 assist, 1 board…..
WHAT are you talking about! Lmao
@@guevarasamson1165is my point exactly there was nothing watered down about the 90s. Jamal Murray's were everywhere coming off the bench that weren't Allstars or 1st team guys but could still kill. I've watched ball since the 80s. I think like Gil said JJ didn't do his research. Duncan Robinson Hakeem Rice there were monsters everywhere on every team. I just got done arguing in the barber shop with cats last year saying Jordan Poole world have averaged 30 in the 90s. These style narratives are crazy in my opinion
You're dumb
No one talks about in both the 2009 and 2010 seasons, the Cavs were the #1 seed in the entire league both years. You don't reach the #1 seed with bad teammates/coaches. It was supposed to be Kobe vs. Lebron in back to back finals both without a Top 75 teammate. (2010 Cavs had Shaq but he was on his way out) Kobe made it to the Finals fighting the toughest Western Conference we have seen in decades, meanwhile Lebron fell short to Orlando and Boston as the #1 seed back to back years. Wade openly admitted after Kobe won his 5th, they called each other and made their decision to stop Kobe from getting more rings. A year after the Big 3 was formed, the league vetoes the trade to have Prime CP3 traded to LA. The league had to protect their "Golden Child."
They got there because of LeBron james
Golden Child how? An that magic team was stacked an shooters at damn near ever position.i like all 3 but damn ppl be so quick to throw shots with no facts.
@@codebreaker00x You are probably too young to remember the magazine era where Lebron was literally propagated as the NBA's "Golden Child"
@@davidjohnsonGT With your logic, if they got there because of LBJ, they failed because of LBJ. As the leader/best player, you can't take the good without the bad.
@@codebreaker00x Lebron wasn’t the golden child? The chosen one? They were hyping him up for years, even making film from Lenny Cooke embarrassing him in his rookie summer league. It’s not far fetched to say the NBA wanted to protect their main guy’s legacy especially since they dropped Kobe after his scandal.
People pretending Michael Jordan didn't have losses. He wasn't in the league for 6 years and then joined the wizards after. No, he was in the league for 15 seasons!
You could say today is watered down because of the young players that get drafted and never pan out.
Okay so what about Bill Russell & Wilt’s era? Ppl consistently say “ol there were only 8 teams” to discredit Bill’s 11 chips
There's a range where the number of teams make a difference. 8 teams is too little to make that kind of impact.
@@mattblock6616 id respectfully argue for Bill Russel by saying the best players are less spread so teams are better/more competitive... but that's just me.... which I think is the point JJ was making and it was more about the reg season cos the better teams always make playoffs
It’s literally just a fact there was only 8 teams and the Celtics had 6 hall of famers lol
and the competition was trash compared to just 20 years later. its more than just the number of teams
What about James Naismith? At one point he was the GOAT.
it's more wattered down now when all stars are teaming up
That Death Row analogy from Gil was absolutely beautiful. The best thing about it was that it didn't shade to one side. There wasn't one ounce of bias in that whatsoever..👏🏿👏🏿👏🏿
The bulls didn't play "small ball", they always had a 7 footer on the court. Gil not only can't do math he also doesn't know recent nba history.
Every one else starting is no lower than 6'7. But their death line up was harper, jordan,pip, kukoc, Rodman.
he's a complete clown for the most part
maccants and kenyon martin are the ones i tune in for
Mj was 6-6 @@ajhaynes8204
They def played small ball lineups at times. Harp, MJ, pip, Rodman, kukoc. It was their defensive versatility and switch ability that was modern, not necessarily modern small ball offense.
@@samhui9433 alot of teams played small ball. Zo hornets, nets with Littles, Kemp and Seattle,Suns KJ.
Didn’t JJ say the Jerry West, Bill Russell era didn’t count because there weren’t enough teams? They always shift the goal post for Bron.
McCants bro, you had me until you stop hearing what others is saying, Gil is saying dont talk about what the other do bad or different when comparing, just talk about what your goat does good. Real goats dont need others to be discredited to be great..
Exactly
JJ Redick have to fast track to being relevant because no one was talking about that dude until he made these crazy takes
Adding 6 whole teams definitely has an effect on the league. How is anyone even gonna debate that? 6 teams is a lotttt
How, when the players were picked from the other teams, they didn't come in off the street. Also, they were 12 man rosters back then. It's 15 now, which makes the league even more " watered down".
Because Jordan fans are emotional
@@hulkdaddy71 lol you think anyone good is playing minutes in the playoffs thats not top 8 on the roster? Buddy Rick Mahorn a bench Center was the best player picked in one of those expansion drafts lol. Solid player, but thats gonna be one the guys to build around? You wanna surround a bunch of barely/non rotation players for the most part and pair them with college players coming out the draft? Its obviously watered down a bit
@@kobebayuk3692 or you can actually look at the context like what the other reply provided
@@hulkdaddy71regardless that’s 6 teams having to start from scratch with all players assembled through a draft. Also 12 men rosters and 15 men rosters aren’t that much different lol considering teams usually have 9-10 guys in the rotation either way
This conversation got silly towards the end.
Phil Jackson was never considered a defensive coach otherwise Shaq should have been a better defender.
Jordan stayed with his team and eventually won. The gap between MJ and 2nd best in his era was significant.
Kobe played with peak Shaq and Gasol.
Lebron left Cleveland and made his title run easier playing with top 75 players and all stars.
Pay attention
He didn’t say it was watered down
He said don’t u think it was a little watered down
It is true regardless of who likes it or not. So all those teams needed time to even complete. So all that time who do you think was killing them? Yup you guessed it
From 1988 until 1998 Jordan was recognized as the unquestioned best player in the league...Nobody else had a run like that....
How can you be the best player in the NBA when you’re playing minor league baseball?
@@jimbo26582aint that crazy? Man was playing baseball and was still considered the best
@@jimbo26582you are desperate
@jimbo26582 You show it by winning 3 and coming back and winning 3 more....All while being the scoring Champion, 1st team nba and 1st team all defense....And you win Finals MVP every single time
No he wasn't
It was teams in the NBA this season that won 14,15,21,21,22, and 25 games all season. It don’t get no more watered down than that in a easier era
That's not watered down. Those r bad teams not new teams.
What’s the difference if they both trash?30% winning percentage at best
1989-90
Heat 18
Magic 18
Nets 17
Kings 23
Twolves 22
Hornets 19
It only ever happened today, right? There were never expansion teams added to the league that watered it down, as you just said, by win totals? So you don't know history just to old hear with your dumbass "you kids don't know ball." Why don't you go outside and keep telling kids to get off your lawn?
@@704chevygang so all NBA history is watered down. U see how ridiculous that is? Those teams already exist. They aren't brand new teams. Wtf r u talkin bout
@@Traylormade_Chief bruh wtf are you talking about. What don’t you get about all the players on the new teams wasn’t brand new into the NBA? So if they’re already in the NBA what’s the difference between a NEW team and a horrible team?
I think a lot of people arent asking the real question such as the quality of season vs the stars playing against them
People have to stop direspecting spoelstra as a coach. Hes the 2nd longest tenured coach with 1 organization in the league right now and had been to 6 finals and won 2. Lebron has not had "F" level coaches his whole career.
This just proves how impossible these comparisons are they are impossible