StarCraft 1: THE ULTIMATE BUST? - Scan vs beast | CNSL 5

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  • Опубліковано 24 лис 2024

КОМЕНТАРІ • 187

  • @fencserx9423
    @fencserx9423 Рік тому +226

    The problem with cutting out games is that you lose the story of the tournament. I’d like to see every game, but it may be smart to double up on mirrors to condense them, especially for ZvZ so that it’s not a week of 5-7 min games.

    • @Lovedontmix
      @Lovedontmix Рік тому +15

      Exactly my thoughts aswell

    • @bugthebug
      @bugthebug Рік тому +17

      This is what I wanted to say, too. I don't want to lose the story and flow of the tournament, but some days it might make sense to post the whole series instead of just one map.

    • @kjhlkjhkljhlkjh3428
      @kjhlkjhkljhlkjh3428 Рік тому +8

      This is the way

    • @135791max
      @135791max Рік тому +5

      Considering that posting a full ZvZ bo5 would likely be shorter than a lot of individual TvT games, I think this is a reasonable thing to ask for.

    • @blacklight4720
      @blacklight4720 Рік тому +2

      I do like ZvZ. Aggressive as RTS should be.

  • @MythrilZenith
    @MythrilZenith Рік тому +69

    Every game matters! If the ZvZs are too short bundle them together or do multiple uploads. I know that won't necessarily work for TvT or PvP but we want all the games!

  • @AkhilJariwala
    @AkhilJariwala Рік тому +34

    Agree that it's much more enjoyable to watch the entire tournament. Love the idea of bundling ZvZs into a single upload.

  • @Reruro
    @Reruro Рік тому +54

    I also agree that seeing every game lets us develop the narrative and stories of the players via your commentary. Maybe bundle some of the faster ZvZs together.

  • @Zandros
    @Zandros Рік тому +17

    Honestly, I like seeing a balance of short games and long games. Artosis said once you need to see the bad games and be honest that they're bad so appreciate the good ones. This is a similar concept, you need the short games to know the difference from a long game. I'm not saying short games are bad, but the strategies are obviously different and why have a caster channel that skips certain games/strategies? And it's been said already but I agree I don't want to lose the story of the tournament. I also enjoy the 1 game a day format, it stops the games from bleeding together and gives me time to process what happened.

  • @Dominic-hc2fx
    @Dominic-hc2fx Рік тому +13

    I enjoyed the ZvZs. Really started to like them because of this tournament.

    • @shawnl1155
      @shawnl1155 Рік тому +3

      Same, it's a hair trigger kind of game that's very micro intensive!

    • @redridingcape
      @redridingcape Рік тому

      I really loved seeing the zergling concaves on the ramp to defend, so interesting all the little optimizations. I started watching SC recently so it hasn't gotten old for me lol

  • @WisecrackJax
    @WisecrackJax Рік тому +35

    Scan’s been particularly impressive lately.

    • @blacklight4720
      @blacklight4720 Рік тому +1

      Well, the last game was a complete sh1tshow. I wan't sure if Scan intentionaly lost or whatever. It felt like wan't preparing against mutas. Mutas are always 100% coming, no matter the matchup.

  • @Bleachz0rs
    @Bleachz0rs Рік тому +3

    I want to see all the games. The tournament aspect is an exciting part. One thing I would appreciate is for you to put a counter somewhere on screen that reminds us who is playing and what the score is.

    • @Bleachz0rs
      @Bleachz0rs Рік тому

      I know this is even more work for you but seeing a bracket graphic would be cool too … hahaha. I know I can look it up, but then I may spoil myself and also having the bracket graphic brings more of the excitement of the tournament to the casts.

  • @shawnl1155
    @shawnl1155 Рік тому +1

    In terms of bundling games together, I'm a busy professional and some days I appreciate a 7 minute game with my breakfast. Not sure that I want a 20 minute commitment every single day.

  • @amaialaurentia
    @amaialaurentia Рік тому +3

    I think it's awesome to have the whole tournament casted, and really valuable to me for seeing the full story of the season. I really didn't mind the deep dive into ZvZ. Even though a lot of the games were shorter, I never considered skipping or missing an upload! ZvZ makes more sense to me now, thanks for pushing through!

  • @coolblade23
    @coolblade23 Рік тому +20

    It is kinda hard to answer that , like there was a super crazy ZvZ a while back where both players had like 1 drone , and true that it was like 8 minutes , but it was incredible to watch. Maybe if a game is less than 10 minutes combine it with 2 games ?
    I am ok with having mirror matches as long as they are worth it, but having a ZvZ where one player made pure eco and the other made lings only and the game ended in 4 minutes :D ... yeah ... fun but kinda of a bummer to wait after that 24 hours for another game

  • @HamidKarzai
    @HamidKarzai Рік тому +1

    I like seeing every match, compiling short ones into one video would also be fine

  • @donyodonev1493
    @donyodonev1493 Рік тому +1

    Scan made great micro with two marines and one SCV at the beginning. I can remember one very nice situation where RT thought that Scan is death against Zerg, but Scan hold very nice and confident and RT said “barely”. Scan is magician with his micro.

  • @WindexChugger
    @WindexChugger Рік тому +10

    I've been loving the extra ZvZ matches. Please show every game from the tournament!

  • @quikdeath100
    @quikdeath100 Рік тому

    I prefer seeing the whole tournament and all the games. I think it makes us more invested in what happening and who’s winning and losing.

  • @remusspanu5225
    @remusspanu5225 Рік тому +7

    I watched all the CNSL5 games you put here. I didnt mind the zvz's. Maybe, if a game is 5 min long, do two of them in one video?

  • @lesna_pechalba
    @lesna_pechalba Рік тому +1

    I like that you comment all the games and we can follow the tournament. For me it doesn't matter ZvZ,TvT,PvP. Good starcraft is good starcraft.

  • @Scrambles2112
    @Scrambles2112 Рік тому +2

    Cerebrate Artosis, please do not skip or edit/cut short any game, mirror match or not🙏 LIVE FOR THE SWARM!

  • @skterran
    @skterran Рік тому

    Totally cast the whole tourney. It’s not your fault that the tournament progressed the way it did. This is a true broodwar channel!!

  • @blankempty5128
    @blankempty5128 Рік тому +1

    I am always down for mirror matches. It really shows the thought put into each player's playstyle once deviations in build orders and tactics occur

  • @sleeper1855
    @sleeper1855 Рік тому +1

    Love watching all the games! It's fun never knowing if it's going to be a "good" game or some whacky all in or a bunch of mistakes on both sides.
    There are tons of games to watch on UA-cam that are "really long, evenly matched epic games" but it's much more interesting to watch all the games and see how a series develops

  • @DjAtmaWeapon
    @DjAtmaWeapon Рік тому +1

    Seeing every game is pretty nice. Sometime I really like to focus on different player. Just like Scan, it is pretty cool to follow each match.

  • @turdle69420
    @turdle69420 Рік тому +1

    damn i love this match up. 40 fkin supply at 8 minutes into a pro game and half are drones/scvs. so crazy what it produces

  • @tspeez
    @tspeez Рік тому +1

    The only time Arty loses his terrain bias is when it's scan 😂

  • @timfuhrmann9058
    @timfuhrmann9058 Рік тому +1

    Hi arty, first I commented before how you arent keeping the camera on fights enough and often move it away to show less interesting stuff in the base, I feel like your observing has gotten a lot better, thanks!
    Secondly, I would generally prefer to have all the games of a tournament casted, this tournament got unusually bad as far as mirror matchups go, but normally this isnt nearly as much of a problem and I like the flow of watching all the games in the correct order rather than jumping from game to game, makes the whole thing feel more like a competition instead of random ladder games.
    Thanks for casting, thanks for supporting this 25 year old game, love ya man!

  • @thoughtpolease7183
    @thoughtpolease7183 Рік тому +2

    I love the ZvZ and I think there is value in completeness. Even if I don't watch every game I would love to be able to. For example if I discover a played that I like, I could watch all the matches featuring that player.

  • @freshcutzwag
    @freshcutzwag Рік тому +1

    Hey artosis, if an instant rises where there’s tons of mirrors like that, you could always cast 2 mirrors in a row and then cast a different match up for a game and then back to 2 more mirrors in a row and repeat the cycle. It gives us a cute break from mirrors while still being able to keep up with the brackets

  • @IsThisReallyMy3dLife
    @IsThisReallyMy3dLife Рік тому +1

    Statistically half of StarCraft matchups are mirrors. It's part of the game, the only people still watching are those who are used to it by now. And if it was all juicy TvT you and I would both just love it and watch every second, so don't pick & choose. Plus, this vid has lots more comments than typical - good tactical play on the algorithm 👍😛

  • @kevinly916
    @kevinly916 Рік тому +1

    i like seeing all the games, even the bad ones but maybe combine really short games together

  • @JuiceBoxHerox
    @JuiceBoxHerox Рік тому +1

    I personally prefer covering the matches as they happen. Its just the nature of these events that you might get a lot of mirror match ups.

  • @Savko_TTV
    @Savko_TTV Рік тому

    Cast the whole tourney Arty. Mirrors are part of the game and getting a clinic in 1 matchup is ultra helpful.

  • @mackross
    @mackross Рік тому +6

    I’m enjoying these a lot. Your explanations are awesome. Would like to keep seeing more of what you doing now.

  • @TheEarlGreyHot
    @TheEarlGreyHot Рік тому +1

    Excellent cast as always. As I think others have said, I really don't mind watching the mirror matchups. The only thing I thought about is whether you could do a few of the short ZvZs as a single cast? But, I'm not sure how much extra work that is for you.

  • @mmc582
    @mmc582 Рік тому +5

    i personally liked all the zvz, the only matches I skipped were 2-3 of the TvTs that went really long.

  • @alucard449
    @alucard449 Рік тому

    GG. I say keep the channel as is. Tournaments can be funky like that, but overall it’s a nice mix.

  • @slavmorality6461
    @slavmorality6461 Рік тому

    Just cast the games. Mirror matchups don't need anyone apologizing for them, and the people who do enjoy watching mirror matchups (there are more than a few of us out there) don't get much of a thrill out of hearing the commentator apologizing for or complaining about having to cast and upload a mirror matchup. If people want to skip the vod, they will. It's a fantastic channel, keep up the great work!

  • @eldarr0
    @eldarr0 Рік тому +1

    I really liked seeing the whole tournament. If there are a ton of mirror matches you could upload them all at once so that people don't get fatigue - obviously that means more recording if you are going to stay on a daily-upload schedule.

  • @SquareyCircley
    @SquareyCircley Рік тому +4

    Not a fan of a load of ZvZs but if that's how the tournament goes that's how it goes and like people said we need the narrative of the tournament. I agree with the all people saying bundle the short ZvZs together~

  • @jonathancoyle1571
    @jonathancoyle1571 Рік тому +1

    I'd like to see the whole tournament

  • @SardaukarLegion
    @SardaukarLegion Рік тому +5

    NO I want every game. It allow us to develp a narrative around the tournament. I also want more ZvZ plus see you rage about it is great bonus =).

  • @SeeAndDreamify
    @SeeAndDreamify Рік тому +2

    My preference is that you please don't cherry pick. I really appreciate the unfiltered aspect of these casts, makes me feel like I am not getting a skewed perspective on StarCraft.

  • @nandinoo
    @nandinoo Рік тому +1

    every game is a noble option

    • @skykur
      @skykur Рік тому

      Honor, skill, hardwork. This is the Terran way

  • @BertisAU
    @BertisAU Рік тому +3

    Beautiful defense by Scan

  • @joshuacurtis3048
    @joshuacurtis3048 Рік тому +2

    Strong work Arty

  • @rymegkasri
    @rymegkasri Рік тому

    I don't mind the mirrors, but taking a lesson from the chess folk, usually they cover a few games a day if there are multiple games to cover. But I love the daily content!

  • @blazewarTV
    @blazewarTV Рік тому

    I dont thing theres a lot of people who knows More about this game than artosis.

  • @Scarbeus
    @Scarbeus Рік тому

    I think put in all of the tournament games. If there's a particular matchup a viewer doesn't like then it's up to them to miss a video and not for everyone else.

  • @DJball30
    @DJball30 Рік тому

    I agree with people saying you lose the story of a tourney if you only cherry pick games, but that being said, if you are going to stick with only one upload a day, in general non-mirror matches tend to be more interesting to watch. Especially if it's a ZvZ (I say this as a former Zerg player) games can be 5 min of ling micro followed by a gg, and it feels like we didn't get our Arty/Starcraft fix that day when that happens.
    If there was an entire ZvZ series, that added up to 15-20 min total, all bundled together and uploaded I think that'd solve the issue, but that's more work for you, so I get why that may not be an appealing option. Hope this helps, thanks Arty :)

  • @DKFlamez
    @DKFlamez Рік тому +1

    I rather see all the matches. Mirrors are fun to watch.

  • @supaf1yz
    @supaf1yz Рік тому +2

    no need to cherry pick, all vids are great and always learning something new

  • @AleksandarProkopec
    @AleksandarProkopec Рік тому

    Definitely not cut games, that would harm the flow of the tournament. If the games are short, you could put two in one day :)

  • @Chamuzi
    @Chamuzi Рік тому +4

    I want all the games. It doesn't bother me that we had a lot of
    Z v Z's, I watched them and enjoyed them.

  • @gordontubbs
    @gordontubbs Рік тому +1

    If we're going to get a mirror series within a specific tournament, I'd rather see them bundled as one long video (20-30 minutes).

  • @grahamorandazzo5090
    @grahamorandazzo5090 Рік тому +1

    I like the mirror match-ups.

  • @hannes1109
    @hannes1109 Рік тому +2

    Hi RT, I simply enjoy all your casts so I don’t mind ZvZs or anything, especially in a tournament setting where we might lose track of the story of the tournament.
    Next time you do all these, maybe name the match-up first before the actual title, makes it way easier for us to find or to navigate through all these games if you’re not following it day by day. Or perhaps naming it like in ASL, Ro8 Ro4 etc.
    Anyway, appreciate your content ❤

  • @etalon3141
    @etalon3141 Рік тому

    I wouldnt cherry pick, it is what it is. I enjoyed them all. You said yourself, no such thing as a good game without bad games :D

  • @g_eddie
    @g_eddie Рік тому

    In all honesty, I am not sure how many people are upset with the number of mirrors, or how upset they are, or to what degree they represent a significant portion of the viewing community. So, I'm not exactly convinced that there even is a problem. But, I am happy to be corrected.
    Either way... Brood war is brood war, and I love all of it!

  • @willmannn
    @willmannn Рік тому

    2-3 ZvZ games per video would be nice. That way a series or two doesn't take up like a week or more of uploads

  • @TheMetron
    @TheMetron Рік тому

    I vote to cast all games. I’ve been really enjoying your videos! Even the ZvZzzzzz Haha but honestly, even those were interesting to watch.

  • @nathanspeidel9195
    @nathanspeidel9195 Рік тому

    Hello Artosis. I really wanted to say that I’ve actually REALLY enjoyed the ZvZ in this tournament.
    I know I might be in the minority here, or maybe the people who dislike ZvZ are just more vocal (or maybe both), but please know that there ARE people like me out there who do enjoy the ZvZ and the shorter simpler games. I find it fascinating when the game is simplified in that way and it really helps me build a foundational understanding that enhances my understanding of the more complicated games, and the precision involved, etc.
    And like you said, there has to be variety. If you start cherry picking games then early rushes, etc, will be way less exciting for us to watch because we’ll know the games have been cherry picked making early rushes less likely to succeed (cuz if they do the game is less likely to be selected).
    I really really think it’s best if you just stick to honest reality. Cast all the games in a tournament. Let it reflect StarCraft play at the highest level, whatever that looks like.
    Please don’t start cherry picking!
    That’s literally why I stopped watching other streamers - cuz of their cherry picking. Let the game be what it is!
    And thanks for your daily casts!! It’s totally a part of my daily routine and I love it!

  • @turgid4391
    @turgid4391 Рік тому

    Keep it as is arty! I Wanna catch all the games

  • @Vaampe
    @Vaampe Рік тому

    Terran is a funny race. Lost almost all workers = STILL far ahead

  • @Raidknackarn
    @Raidknackarn Рік тому

    I am just a casual enjoyer of Broodwar and i would love to get as many games as i can see honestly. Mirror matches does not bother me personally.

  • @Stranzua
    @Stranzua Рік тому

    Here is an idea. Maybe you can make a weekly poll and post it on your community tab, or maybe you can ask the viewers in the first few uneventful minutes of the video.

  • @grouchomcgrouch4150
    @grouchomcgrouch4150 Рік тому +2

    I like seeing an entire tournament from beginning to end. Anticlimactic games and ugly mirror matches and all. I will say that for shorter games, it might be nice if there was a sneaky second cast built in. That way if somebody gets 4 pooled and the game is over in 5 minutes there's still some suspense because the length of the video makes it seem like maybe they'll survive and we'll have the consolation prize of another game when it turns out that this one was "player 1 builds a few lings and A moves over player 2" or some shit like that

  • @jacobschmitt1329
    @jacobschmitt1329 Рік тому

    I really like seeing the games 1 at a time as the tourney develops. Maybe you could do something like Harstem casts where he posts a whole match at a time as opposed to individual games, but for me having 1 game a day is very digestible cause I don't have much time to watch. I enjoy the ZvZs so if we get a series of a bunch of them in a row, tbh I don't mind that being the only match I watch for the day. Do what you like but I personally don't mind the format as is because having a long series of mirror matchups isn't something that happens most tournaments

  • @ugignadl
    @ugignadl Рік тому

    I would vote for casting all games in a tournament, but one thing I'd ask for you to consider is something like: If the game take less than 15 minutes, do the next one as well. This way the times of the videos don't spoil if it will die in a quick rush and the bad feels due to e.g. ZvZ isn't so bad. I think it would be nice if the narrative of the tournament could be talked about a little bit too (not more than one or two sentences). This is mostly already there but I guess I'd like to see it a little bit more.

  • @SeverusVergiliusMaro
    @SeverusVergiliusMaro Рік тому

    I'm def down for getting a few more non-mirror matches, cherry picking in the way you described sounds perfect.

  • @MrZebub
    @MrZebub Рік тому

    My only gripe is that when a game turns out to be 5 mins or less. It'd be cool to have a second daily upload in such cases. In any case, I'd rather have all matches, mirrored or not.

  • @secondjoint
    @secondjoint Рік тому +1

    His control of a skeleton crew to fend off early aggression was beautifully executed . The fights were balanced on a knifes edge and the one with slightly better micro took the advantage. This is why I love broodwar. It’s almost like a fighting game where micro can make basic units with no magic abilities so much more powerful than unmicroed units

  • @dungeonmaster6292
    @dungeonmaster6292 Рік тому

    Starcraft has a rich history of fixing and gaming tournaments and matches so Artosis is silly to say there's nothing that can be done

  • @dayio1
    @dayio1 Рік тому

    combine games together. i often skip a bit through games to get the juicy parts. But i'd like to see the full story of the tournament.

  • @paulkruger7934
    @paulkruger7934 Рік тому

    holy sit that was such a good game, wowowow

  • @jordang8730
    @jordang8730 Рік тому

    We love zed v zed, Artosis!

  • @tranquilitydove1155
    @tranquilitydove1155 Рік тому +1

    No fucking way man, we all know artois_ has the ultimate bust

  • @Ogogghe1
    @Ogogghe1 Рік тому

    incredible defence

  • @farhorizons6163
    @farhorizons6163 Рік тому

    Agree with most of the people here; bundling shorter matches together is best option!

  • @55Aavenue
    @55Aavenue Рік тому

    I want to see every game!

  • @heptastrike7618
    @heptastrike7618 Рік тому

    I much prefer seeing all the matches. I also honestly find zvz to be my favorite matchup so I know at least some of us would be a bit sad.

  • @michaelbird9148
    @michaelbird9148 Рік тому +1

    A rephrase of my reply to your community post...I hope you don't cherry pick. It disrupts the flow of a series. Some games might suck, some might too short, some might be repetitive. It happens, and people need to handle that. This channel is a professional cast of a (usually) professional-level game every day. People can wait a couple days and probably get new things. If anything, as others have suggested combine some short ZvZs/matches. Or take an opportunity to approach the cast differently (i.e., view the set of games as a whole and continue themes or analysis throughout).

  • @FS4SS
    @FS4SS Рік тому

    I would also like to see every game!

  • @davidvelleman3525
    @davidvelleman3525 Рік тому

    I've been enjoying the CNSL casts and I personally would favor keeping the current format -- if you're going to cast a tournament, cast all of the games. It allows the viewer to follow the path of the players through the tournament much more easily, and the occasional imbalances are part of the viewing experience. No need to overthink it.

  • @Daggerz12
    @Daggerz12 Рік тому

    I'd prefer to cast every game of a tournament, helps build storylines, gives info on player tendencies and strategies.

  • @vertigo91na
    @vertigo91na Рік тому

    ZvZ is the best (zerg player)! I always enjoy mirror matches. A lot of good battles we miss if you don't cast them.

  • @chrisyoutube4278
    @chrisyoutube4278 Рік тому

    Cherry pick the best games of the series,/tournament with a lens for class balance, if you could add a bit of an intro - just like pause the replay and then you let us know "hey guys so this is X playing Zerg vs Y playing Terran, this is the roun od 8 from XYZ tournamnet, and our Zerg is up 1-0..." or whatever context and then we can get into it - just a suggestion

  • @FlymanMS
    @FlymanMS Рік тому

    Funny all-in by Beast.

  • @bajsbrev4651
    @bajsbrev4651 Рік тому

    Scan's so clean man

  • @WisecrackJax
    @WisecrackJax Рік тому

    I think people complain about ZvZ because it’s popular to, just for others to get a laugh out of it. I’d love it, when games are particularly short, if you throw a couple games together in one video, or something. I just want any games you’re willing to cast

  • @theyellowjesters
    @theyellowjesters Рік тому

    I'd say let's watch all the games. Zvz and all!

  • @_DKerk
    @_DKerk Рік тому

    I want to see all the games. If it's a 5 minute game bundle the next one with it

  • @IYPITWL
    @IYPITWL Рік тому

    RT needs to watch like 5 klazart casts. Man didnt have game knowledge bcuz it came in like 2003. Still his speed and accuracy was amazing from caster direction

  • @TylerClibbon
    @TylerClibbon Рік тому

    zvzs wouldnt be boring to me if they were cast live! like in the style of a real live tournament, i understand it has to be from replays for this though

  • @davidramtjarn7766
    @davidramtjarn7766 Рік тому

    ARTOSIS Lisen buddy! what you can do for a middle ground is when you it comes to alot of mirror matches insteed off one aday threw the matches that is like zvz if its a best of 3 or 5 throw it all out on a day and then move to the next match IN THAT CASE it makes all happy'' i personally wanna see all your lovely casted games! i dont care if its zvz 10 times'' but not all like it so its easy to move on to the next match in the pracket so its half way cheery picking but all get the goodys anyway, Sadly it makes it so you have to make more videos thats the sad part. But yeah personaly i say Cast all the games and let the true fan base of bw and your content have all the games in a tournament ;)

  • @DZatheus
    @DZatheus Рік тому

    All the games, it's a tournament, I want to see how players progress and how they fare in every match up. I don't mind if it's 10 ZvZ in a row.

  • @jakewhitney8201
    @jakewhitney8201 Рік тому

    Cherry pick the hell out of it arty!

  • @Tankband01
    @Tankband01 Рік тому

    every game, mirrors are fine!

  • @KonfluxGames
    @KonfluxGames Рік тому

    I'd rather not skip games, but if they're shorter than 10 minutes might be nice to do a double feature, works better for algorithm too from my understanding

  • @amauta5
    @amauta5 Рік тому

    What’s the issue with mirror matches, specially with zvz?

  • @soundsgrrr
    @soundsgrrr Рік тому

    Go for the full tournament! ZvZ sucks, but cherrypicking takes the fun out of watching a tournament from start to finish...

  • @Weryr
    @Weryr Рік тому

    As much as I dont like it, it’s nice to see outcomes