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The Toxically Positive VR Hype Culture
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- Опубліковано 29 чер 2024
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NOTE: Thrillseeker's video of Zenith: The Last City was used because there is no way I am redownloading a 50gb joke of software just to capture a minute of footage, and his footage was the best concise visual summary of the overall play experience I could find.
I am NOT intending to directly point a finger at or implicate Thrillseeker by using his footage.
As you may have noticed I used footage of games which I considered to be overhyped and disappointed, Zenith being one of them.
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This video concludes the 'Critique Saga' that's been the theme of my content for the last few videos.
I am keen to move away from this tone for a while because it burns me out (I guess you the viewer may be a bit burnt out too?) and I don't really take pleasure in it. I'd much prefer to celebrate and hold up great advancements and experiences within the medium instead, and share that passion & joy with those who are interested.
As I say in the video, the dominant popular presentation in VR content I feel has leaned too heavily on ‘ignorance is bliss’ and disingenuous hyping in a stage of VR development where I think it needs far more candid, constructive critique that attempts to consider the overarching big picture added into the mix, to progress meaningful innovation and advancements in the tech. And no one else has been doing this to a level I think is adequate.
A healthy balance, as with anything in life, is best.
BEFORE YOU STRAWMAN ME / TAKE MY POINTS TO RIDICULOUS EXTREMES I DON'T MEAN AND THEN ARGUE AGAINST THINGS I DIDN'T SAY:
* I am NOT saying there is a problem with hyping, showcasing, non-serious and general mess around content! And I am not saying AT ALL that we shouldn't have fun with these things or that we can't exaggerate for entertainment's sake.
* I am NOT saying that just because something is undesirable at the moment, it means I want to eradicate ALL things like that and only have things be the complete opposite all the time!
Balance, balance, balance.
In the end, the validity and effect of my perspective will depend entirely how much it does or doesn't resonate with the audience. So, we'll see what happens from here on.
Thank you for listening/watching. Take care.
so would I count as "low standard" if i like battle talent or blade and sorcery or bonelab?
I just want to know your stance, the answer is important for me to agree with you or not
@@nasercartoon6067 It is completely okay to like those games, and I enjoy them too.
The whole point of the video from my point of view though is that there are way too many content creators overhyping VR releases, and not enough putting out enough valid criticism on games that CAN be better. We'll keep getting games that sell with the same mistakes over and over, and lead to stagnation in the VR games industry.
@@smallbutdeadly931 What he said 👆🏻
@@smallbutdeadly931 i understand
As an aspiring VR dev I see all the complete garbage making bank on the children and low standards players and it even makes me want to release a cash grab. Your videos have made realize that there are people who want more for the medium and I should give it to them
🥰👏👍🥳
Then fix it irony corp supports you
I mean yeah, but also just make the game you yourself would want to play. I think thats rule #1.
Admittedly I've bought games and added them to my library after seeing exactly those kinds of review, and on a rainy day, I'll go to play it and learn that the overhype was exaggerated to the point of lies.
I don't like to get shitty about it, but man, there are good games, but I've been tantamount to miss-sold a lot of VR titles over the years.
Personally I love the VR creator scene because of how friendly and supportive they are, but at the same time, I think the overhype of titles has reached a point where I watch some creators for entertainment, and you and GT are those I'd look to, if I wanted to get information I can trust.
It sounds like I'm sleighting the other creators, but I'm really not, I'm just pointing out that I've spent a lot of money on titles that were overhyped to the point of deception.
It reached a point where VR videos are seperated into "Entertainment" and "Reliable information". The latter being a list of 2 people currently, and it bums me out, because the former can only lead to disappointment that progresses to VR as a medium slowly bleeding out.
If a new user sees a video, hears from a creator that a game is incredible, shockingly, amazingly mind blowing, and then they buy it and it sucks, they will think that this is the standard for VR, because the creator implies that it just doesn't get any better than this.
That last paragraph is great, excellently concluded & better than my script! 👍🏻👍🏻
@@MrVRVoice Honestly, your script is absolute solid!
If only you knew how bad things really are
Prepare yourself for the next year of pain as a new cycle comes
😬 Here’s your 🫴🏻🍿 by the way 😄
I understand why you don't play VR games any more!!!
this is not just a VR gaming culture thing, its ALL gaming culture that does this
@@TNEQL yes. this is also why I find a lot of the repetitive points about it being a vr specific problem irritating as well. this is just how it is in the most unfortunate way possible currently.
the only way it would be solved in the vr scene is if everyone on the UA-cam side didn't take sponsorships which is literally impossible
by sponsorships I should also clarify I mean the ones made to show off smaller games which are the ones usually hyped up and not that good at all
@@TNEQL Online discussions seem to swing in extremes. While this video is calling out the toxic positivity, which I agree there is way too much of, he falls into the same anti hype and negativity. It is like people don't understand people value and prioritize different things when it comes to their enjoyment. It isn't uncommon to be called both a shill and a hater in the same moment. Words like fanboy, hater, and bandwagon are such easy words to shut down real conversation.
I personally love VR but I know it isn't perfect. It isn't quite to where I want it yet, but the potential and some things it offers is incredible. I think it has grown a lot but can understand if people aren't thrilled about it.
💯
Such a necessary sentiment. Literally why I have resisted covering games. You can’t deny the feeling in the pit of your stomach that the game you’re playing is bad, but underneath you want VR to thrive. Creators find themselves pinned between their mind and their heart. Thank you for putting this into the world.
I'm sure this might get lost in the comments somewhere, but I feel like ranting anyway about this since it's something I deal with daily. TLDR at the end.
it's not just the content creators. There's a lot of things going on here and everyone is attempting to manage all of them at once, but it's a mess. I'll lay out a few obvious and hard to deal with ones.
Problem 1) the viewership is not there for VR content to get recognition
My content is primarily VR tutorials for the games, tutorials on how to set up games or VR mods with reviews here and there that are as honest as possible. I streamed VR games nearly daily for 2 years. I played on the best VR team IN THE WORLD across multiple games. None of these things attract impressions. Even playing on "the best in the world" and winning, didn't get any attention of anyone that didn't already play VR, and of those people, competitive is an even smaller niche.
Flatscreen games have sponsors and a huge casual community that can back up VR and that go to see the spectacle. It has massive companies sponsoring tournaments or even having in-game cosmetics like Fortnite. VR does not have this. The money is not there. The leagues and tournaments are run with donated money or from people's pockets. Due to the smaller cash prize, there's not as much risk on the line for viewers, and it's not viewed as serious.
The VR playerbase and watch base is small and everyone has this idea that the only thing that will get anyone into VR is to hype them up. This is the corner that so many creators have been backed into because they WANT to make their passion marketable, but there is almost no way to other than try to get people to buy more headsets.
Problem 2) making content and streaming VR is incredibly hard to get looking right and pretty. Almost no one has the time or energy to do this for little to no payout.
Capturing and showing VR gameplay on a flatscreen device for people to watch is also impossible to convey the experience properly, so there are a lot of liberties taken just to try to even be able to showcase the gameplay itself. The viewer usually only sees 1 eye. They can't see what the hands are doing at all times. They can't see what is actually happening. I had to actually learn to SLOW DOWN my gameplay when playing on stream, so that viewers who didn't play the game could follow better what was going on. The amount of programs I have running on my PC to get everything working, with the right camera angle, with the right settings to not break encoding, as well as IF POSSIBLE use a motion stabilizer for the camera, already takes up the majority of my GPU and CPU, so I can't even play the game at 144hz. I have to play at 90 or even 80 to even be able to stream at HQ for the stream, which is not only less pretty for me, but a competitive DISADVANTAGE.
The content creators are already making sacrifices to even be able to stream the game or make videos, and they do it to an extremely niche community.
Editing is also a nightmare. In flat screen games, things have set animations. You can have all sorts of cool transitions to different scenes because the gun is in an identical spot every single time in a shooter. In a VR game, the gun is WHEREVER THE PERSON IS HOLDING IT. Scene transitions are harder. Editing is harder. Half the "Cool clips" don't look cool in post because the camera angle was off or you captured the wrong eye. Add this to standard online clips that are thrown out and you have an even smaller clip pool to choose from.
Problem 3) Game companies for a lot of top VR games
The devs themselves run into a ton of different issues like: trying to adapt people to a brand new medium. Flat screen games don't have to do this because they can assume people know how to use a mouse and keyboard and probably know how to aim. VR is a new medium. Most the VR games have literal aim-mechanics in them to assist the player. This helps people get IN to VR, but makes anyone who plays VR see how baby-mode it is. They have to try to make an anti-cheat work on their VR game, when there aren't any VR anti-cheat companies that specialize in it, and they have to deal with so many other factors when designing the game that makes their lives harder (again for even less money than a flatscreen game). There is no rulebook or even resources for them to even find solutions to a lot of their problems like there are for flatscreen games. For example UE5 and VR compatibility issues need to be directly talked to with EPIC to be able to fix, so there's even a parent company who has VR probably at the bottom of their priority list because it doesn't make them much money.
Many devs for a lot of these VR games know that the players have little to no other options when it comes to competition. This means the devs can treat the communities basically however they want, and they know the players don't have other options to pick from anyway. This has been getting better with more games coming out of the same genre (Showdown competing with pop1, Vail competing with Pavlov, etc.), but it is still not a large amount of games to pick from. The devs see this and primarily go for "have a game of a certain genre, because people will play it, just because there are so few to pick from. This is why Joyway has had 3-4 failed games that all feel like tech demos and why so many other companies just ship out vague tech demos that aren't full experiences. You don't need to be the best right now in these company's eyes, you just need to have SOMETHING in that category. There are a few good dev teams out there, but a lot of them do not have the patience to add things or work on things that have 0 payout.
Due to this factor, devs and community managers can act however they want towards the players and experience almost no repercussions.
The Zenith devs actually DELETED my video that I posted in their discord server about one of their updates when it wasn't positive and the Ghosts of Tabor devs straight up blocked me on Twitter and deleted my video in their discord when it wasn't singing its praises. The amount of people who I explain the whole story to who say "man that really sucks, but there aren't any other options and I still have fun with it" has actually been the MAJORITY of people.
TLDR: 1) viewership isn't there
2) Streaming and making content is way too hard
3) There isn't enough competition to enforce quality.
There are way more factors, even just taking these factors alone an adding them to the standard flat-screen content creation factors like thumbnails, audio, advertising, editing, collaboration, sponsors, and tech issues, and making content is an absolute headache for just about everyone for virtually 0 payout.
Edit* added a small section about some of the struggles VR devs ALSO need to do since I didn't want it to sound like I was only trashing devs.
It's hard out there for genuine VR content creators. That's why I try to support those I believe are truly offering something of substance, like yourself, in this vastness of hyped or empty content. Cheers @Sumatchi
"This is good because I like it and it is fun to play because it is good and fun"
I have to agree with almost everything here, especially as another creator in the space even with not the biggest following. Particularly when it comes to VR GAMES there feels like an implicit attitude that you can't be overly negative about things, besides a few easy targets where there's a monumental screwup like Hitman VR.
I totally get that most VR developers are smaller indie studios who have far less resources and that we should not hold them to the same standard as something like triple A developers, that'd be ludicrous. But not having the SAME standards does not equal having NO standards. It might've made more sense to give a lot more space in, say, pre-2020 because VR was seriously brand new then and the community were still figuring out a lot of the medium or even GOOD, let alone great, ways to do things.
But we're no longer in that era. We have some pretty solid examples of exceptional VR games that show what you can do with the medium which can be looked to for how to avoid certain pitfalls. I think you're completely right that people hype things up because they feel like it HAS to succeed because they want VR to succeed, but if we keep promoting and putting bad games on a pedestal, or at least ignoring major flaws even in decent games, it'll only do damage to the medium long term. It feels like a section of the community has forgotten it's perfectly okay to like something DESPITE its flaws and you can still acknowledge them without the need to defend or downplay them. I've even seen some devs encourage the kind of attitude that you complained about at around 9 minutes where any critic on a game feels like a critic on VR itself! I've heard some say "If you want to support PCVR then buy this game" more than once as if it's some kind of shield and that the community OWES a game for existing and flaws should be ignored because if you don't like the game then you don't like VR. Absolute tripe.
I already don't trust the majority of VR influencers when it comes to trying to give "serious" opinions because time after time I've become disappointed with the results and even if it was still an enjoyable experience, I was let down because it didn't live up to the standards everyone shouted from the rooftops with.
Thanks so much for bringing up the point about flatscreen vs VR, because while some of this stuff absolutely happens with flatscreen too(Hell, look at the memes about "professional" game reviews vs consumer reviews), there are so many more options to go to. You CAN find a number of good reviewers with flatscreen because of sheer numbers. It may still take effort to find people, but you can. The much smaller # of VR content creators makes that less viable. And that's a big reason this is such a problem. It's like when a company has a monopoly on a product. You wanna go somewhere else? Too goddamn bad, you CAN'T. I started making videos in part because of that frustration.
This does feel like more of a problem when it comes to the game software space in VR and slightly less with VR hardware, though I've certainly seen that it's become an increasing problem with VR hardware and not just software. Even if it's not acting with malice, it's all so bloody tiring.
I don't always agree with some of your takes about game design, but this video is on point with everything and I'm glad to see somebody call this stuff out.
Dude it's a youtube comment. Just give people the TLDR if you want to be heard.
I stopped watching a lot of VR youtubers when it became clear they're all becoming paid shills
Yep. I used to be a LOT more forgiving of VR titles in the early days of the Rift CV1 and HTC Vive.
But we are far enough beyond those early days that Developers need to be able to stand on the shoulders of those who came before and create games that truly leverage what VR has to offer.
I've been into VR since the beginning, and I'm constantly disappointed with new release titles. Particularly on Quest.
These days I mainly do PCVR Flight sim stuff, where true immersion can actually be achieved.
The breaking point for me was Saints and Sinners 2. Everyone pretended it was a good game. It was DLC, sold (at full price) as a sequel AND it BROKE the game. The physics no longer worked, even though they worked quite well in the original game, glitches everywhere, heck even the NPC's, during dialog segments no less, would wildly glitch around and through things.
The game would have been, rightly so, ripped to shreds if it was flat screen. But in the VR community, I was the "hater" simply for stating the obvious. It was a bad game. Inexcusably bad all things considered. Definitely a subject that needs more discussion in the VR community.
The worst is when people tell you that criticizing VR games is harmful to the medium because it "disincentivises" VR creators. No, we *should* critique VR games, just as we critique any art. That's what feedback is. That's how artists grow and get better.
You’re absolutely right, honesty I typically avoid “hype culture” unless it’s Skyrim or Blade&Sorcery or like another genuinely interesting PCVR game
Quest games have saturated the industry and I avoid quest games like the plague for that reason
As for your comments on zenith, I’d honestly recommend trying out Riff XR, it’s doing some genuinely interesting stuff as a VR MMO using Ai NPCs, it’s different from anything else out there and IMHO it’s the closet thing to a real “oasis” from RP1 that I’ve seen from any vr app, it’s also using all the latest features from UE5
I flipping love Blade & Sorcery, you rock gingasvr!
Noted, thank you Gingas. 🙏🏻
By the way, your Blade and Sorcery 1.0 review was great, well structured, informative on the pros and cons, and I really like what you expressed about standalone holding things back and how you emphasised the many diegetic ‘menu’ interactions as a thing VR should be doing more of (as standard!).
Sentiments I, and I’m sure many others, share. Keep it up! :-)
70% of the "goodness" of any multiplayer game is determined by the people you play with. They can make a bad game seem good or a good game seem bad. I haven't personally experienced much of this so-called toxically positive hype because I'm not chasing after the current fad games and I start out my purchase decisions with knowing my personal likes and dislikes and then evaluate how much what bothers others about the game will bother me.
you make a good point
We're looking at you Beardo.
I'd say be the change you want to see, but you already are, and have been for a long while.
keep being sincere, and never give into profit over integrity like the others.
You are a voice the VR industry needs, well articulated criticism of the things a lot of us just except as the way it is, thank you!
would you consider making a weekly or monthly vr news digest series for the vr community? if you need someone to aggregate info, script and edit, I have years of experience in content production and would love to produce the content to host on your channel
Honestly I noticed this in the quest store. Every game has incredible reviews. Every game is the pinnacle of vr and an all time favorite game. I remember reading through the reviews on project demigod and thinking to myself "we saw the same trailer right? It looks more like a proof of concept then an actual game"
Look at the trailer for Tier One on Kickstarter, looks like a Half Life 1 mod. Yet people seem to believe the developer hype that it will be the 'most immersive VR shooter ever' promise guys, just give us Kickstarter money. For reals. And all of the YT Bubble people covering it (except a few like PolishVR who rightfully calls it shit) are excited and can not even mention how terrible the graphics are.
It is especially tough in the vr space to be scathing, given the lower general standards and the fact that so many developers of these games are budding indie devs, so I can understand wanting to be sensitive with your reviews given how much more personal it can feel than your average game review. But while care can be taken in phrasing to not be unnecessarily mean without detracting from the truth, it most certainly hasn't been in practice, and on average we don't seem to be close to that middle ground. Great video.
Thank you Sir for being the voice of the people who always demand BETTER, because we DESERVE BETTER !
Zenith devs delete negative posts in their disc and the Tabor devs blocked me and deleted my post for not being positive, so it's not just the creators lol
The only time I felt this was really egregious was when bonelab released. Prior to release everyone was calling it the second coming of christ. And then afterwards dead silence.
Yeah, that is one of the few times I felt the hype was overblown. That made me lose a lot of trust in some UA-camrs. Thankfully I didn't get the game. Most times, I think a lot of the hype is people liking the medium of VR and to those who are more neutral may see them as being hyperbolic. I think most people hate clickbait titles.
Yeah, but the game's still freaking rocks thanks to many talented modders. But the community is toxic af!
100%, the game was so boring I didnt bother finishing it after arriving at the hubworld. boneworks was better.
I'm a pcvr gamer since 2018... I have bought the quest 2, and then Quest 3.
I have fallen victim to what you have explained in the vid.. so apathetic with VR releases... My library consists mostly of games I have bought and played 1 or 2 times... Most of these due to the hype of online reviews.
I find the games are lacking serious depth and the polish that you speak of.
Booo! 👎🏾
Ps. And Zenith is one of them I own aswell 😭💸
I would love to stress about the prices of the majority of VR games. Because i think a lot of the arguments would have a different weight if the price tags were 5/10/15€ for a small budget or a very poor polish game with a lot of jank. But on the other hand we have VR games that have AAA/AA prices while they have the quality, polish and care of a low budget game.
Pavlov, 9.5 combat, Blade & Sorcery, 9.5 combat! So far they are the best combat feeling games I've come across in VR!
I wish Blade and Sorcery had smarter ai that doesn't just stare at your sword while it is going at them, and didn't have AI that just invades your personal space, regardless of whether or not there's a sharp weapon where they're going.
@@smallbutdeadly931 Yeah me too, thinking with good sales for 1.0 we could get some A.I upgrades in the future, if not the games company the modders will make it so, we really all need to take a moment to appreciate those guys, they literally save games from dying, like Rome 2, Pavlov, I bow to you modders of the world!
I get most of my VR news coverage from Matteo311. A lot of people say he's too cynical and harsh but I think that's exactly what VR needs.
I think he is more than fair. I used to think he was a bit cynical but I don't think that is the case. He is at least consistent with his thoughts.
I tend to critique stuff fairly in my reviews, but I also consider price and dev team size, it's a bit unfair to hold a cheap indie game to the same standard you would a triple AAA game with millions of dollars in funding. that being said still good to list both positives and negatives in any review and it's true that seems to be mostly lacking in mainstream VR content.
Yeah of course. This video wouldn’t exist if I felt there was a reasonable amount of constructive direct criticism and holding to standards. Even if that ratio were 70/30 or 80/20 in favour of the positive, with the remainder being of decent critique, would still be ok in my opinion. But the ratio feels like 95/5 at the moment.
@@MrVRVoice yeah that's true, good video either way, nice to see some critique in the VR space instead of just blind praise.
(Apologies for the long post- I mostly want to organize my thoughts on the matter because I've had similar thoughts about HYPE VR youtubers in the past and have thought about making a similar video. Don't feel obligated to reply if you don't have the time/energy I know this is super extra)
I've been watching your critique saga since the first contractor$ showdown beta stream when I feel as though you starting cooking this concept (although you've always been very critical before hand, I feel like that was the tipping point) and I've had a few thoughts on the matter, some being a little devils advocate-y.
The "this game will BLOW YOUR MIND" type clickbait has always been super whack, I believe we spoke about this awhile back in one of your into the radius streams and I remember you making the point that often people do this because we as viewers ourselves tend to give clicks to hype words so it's understandable why creators cater towards our human inclination to be drawn to those things. However to your point in this vid those hype words are often super inflated from the actual state of the game which can be construed as a false representation.
As a VR creator myself I tend to name my videos not to maximize engagement but instead to give an aire of goofyness as a sort of theme of the channel, like for instance my Eleven Table Tennis video is named 7-eleven ping pong VR. I'm not even sure if it would come up in a search for the real game if UA-cam didn't let you tag games per video.
It almost feels like the people who are doing those types of titles may have originally been doing in efforts to expand VR by making it seem grandiose to non VR players without realizing the setup to disappointment when it wasn't as fun as presented. That or they are just blatantly content farming because they want those youtube $$
But moving on to your point about it being hard to find reviews that actually do give critical views with game design logic being presented and what not, and that most are just people who give vibes that essentially amount to 'this is fun because I like it.' I personally think that when I watch UA-cam, I sub creators for a myriad of reasons- one of them being highly critical and earnest reviewers as yourself, but I do also value some of the creators that present off the vibes. Being someone who can ascertain which games I would like based on previous ones I've played, I can do the same with creators who tend to showcase preference of certain genres. Like I don't need to know the science behind the Maillard reaction and how it contributes to charring on food to know that a meal looks appetizing and something I would like to eat.
Say there's a guy who like ARPGS and another who likes FPS, and they both try some new FPS game. The former thinks it's meh but the latter likes it. Without getting in the nitty gritty of WHY the game mechanics work- if I had experience with the sorts of games the FPS player has from watching his previous videos, and comparing ones I've also played as well, I can come to my own conclusion on whether I would also like it by proxy.
And then once I do play said game, I then tend to enjoy the deep dive videos that do actually explain game mechanics on why it's good or bad- once I've had enough personal experience myself. So I don't necessarily think the format of those channels necessarily have mal intent. But maybe I'm biased because I hop around from gameplay showcases, to in depth reviews, to vibe reviews too. However I feel as tho I'm not because that is genuinely how I feel about other videos in this scene and even with my own, just like how I title them how I want- I just make videos that are fun to make for me instead of trend chasing like making a B&S 1.0 video the day of for example.
That being said I do agree that %-wise, the vibe reviewers do outweigh people doing in-depth ones and it's definitely more of a niche that could be filled.
Now there are a few things you've alluded to that I think boil down to personal opinion, so like think of the difference between say a Dark Souls where one death brings you back to the checkpoint, vs something like Mario giving you 5+ lives with opportunities to get more and if you die you respawn fairly close and it's not until you fully lose your lives that you respawn further away at some save point. One is a harsher mechanic aimed towards hardcore players and one is a forgiving mechanic aimed towards the masses. And I don't necessarily think one is better than the other, they just serve different groups. So then take that example where the machete auto targets to the zombies head, or like how the grenades in contractors showdown are push to throw along a preset line rather than actually throwing.
I believe you have mentioned them being targeted towards the masses with no standards (or something along those lines) but I think that there are a large group of players who these sorts of mechanics can assist them in focusing on the core gameplay loop instead. I don't think everything necessarily needs to be manual processes- like in Grapple Tournament your guns auto reload because the core gameplay loop is fast paced Unreal Tournament like movement and having to manually reload would be jarring to that style of twitch shooter gameplay. And anecdotally my wife loves to play VR but hasn't been a gamer all her life so ease of use mechanics help level the playing field to enjoy the game.
But I feel as though the sentiment coming across here is that the game is coddling people like her. So then which approach is correct? Do we not coddle and potentially turn away players with less experience? Or do we coddle and make the game less immersive to those with skill? Or is there a middle ground in where both can exist? I'm not sure this is as black and white as devs are lazy for not making full use of VR in every aspect they can, otherwise why even play VR.
That being said, of course things like shit AI and janky stuff like that is bad no matter what and should be be called out. Or like auto assist gun aiming, even tho that might be in line with what I described above I think that does actually hurt the game so again it's very grey area and context dependent to me personally.
And then on the topic of money being involved, I agree that there are many youtubers even outside of VR that seem to be doing this out of the idea that they can amass a following that will feed into their ad revenue or what have you and to me it definitely comes across as less 'keepin' it real' as you can't help but feel there is a bias from the expectation of reward. I personally don't want or care about any of that, I often use music that blocks my monetization because the songs would make my videos better. I don't want to compromise my integrity by choosing a free to use song that would not make the video as good. I can't hate anyone who chooses to pursue profit tho. To me it's more of a 'don't hate the player, hate the game' kinda thing but I do personally rank my fav youtubers higher when they don't put sponsors, don't beg for subs, don't do hype titles etc etc
It's kinda crazy to me tho that you encounter people who think that just because you are being more critical than others that you are bashing the game or trying to kill it or whatever. That's pretty crazy simp/shill behavior but honestly doesn't surprise me at all
I do think this is a conversation that needs to be talked about more in this scene and we could certainly use more channels who focus on the deeper side of things. I'm definitely going to take this video into consideration when I do my more serious reviews and for the gameplay videos or my less serious vibe type reviews I think I will have to make some sort of concerted effort to explicitly make it clear that the user's should only be using my content as a basis on to which they should decide for themselves so that they don't feel like they are wasting their time by having expectations for the video to be something it's not. I'm not entirely sure yet how I will go about that but it's duly noted.
Anyways, cheers Mr V (thanks for letting me use your video as my notepad lol)
Mr VR Voice, I'd love to watch videos where you and another VR reviewer reviews VR games. And so would everyone else here. Take the leap. Do it.
The majority of vr youtuber have financial insentive too overhype with referal code, gift, invitation to evenement or straight up sponsorship.
What they dont realise is that they are destroying there long term success.
Sorry for the broken english im still picking up on it.
your english is fine, this language is a hot mess anyway.
The best vr game I've ever played is a half life two vr mod. That's how poor modern attempts at vr are. A flat screen game beats it at its own game. Partially because vr games tend to hold back on design to appeal to the lowest common denominator that can't handle vr without getting sick.
10 years ago I played a rough hl2 vr mod and thought "wow, this is how vr will be sold, devs will just take their old classic games and make competent vr ports, and that will get serious interest in the genre moving"
10 years later, and.... 😪😪😪
The one that he means is the one that released on Steam two years ago
@@smallbutdeadly931 yes, and I have played that one too
@@JunjiItoDougWalker RE4 and RE8 says hello. But you need a PS5.
I also hate to be so... surgically finger-pointing, as I know it's uncomfortable for many to hear, but after being a part of some of these VR communities (briefly - as in a matter of hours before I can't stand them anymore) like on their Discords and such to discuss the games, I realize that so much of what VR has become has shaped the VR base as a whole into a monstrosity of people who have no standards.
That is to say, all the jank and emphasis on empty experiences with a "fix it with mods" mentality, the physics games where "physics will make the gameplay for us" like Blade and Sorcery where the AI is nearly as stupid as a null body in Boneworks (even after 1.0, which I have now tried for several hours and am quite disappointed with), and VR devs always rushing to include mod support instead of fixes and features, it has caused VR to be inundated with Tiktok zoomers of an "everything is disposable, who cares, it isn't that deep bro" mentality who frequently have NO criticism of VR games except "when is mod support?" so that they can add their trashy anime character, furry OC, lightsabers, etc.
Hell, a lot of these games don't feel like they're meant to be enjoyed, they almost feel like they're meant to be turned into a content mill of "sick combat" compilation videos for creators who can carefully cherrypick footage that actually looked cool and wasn't just their arms flapping around clipping into a door or them being unable to walk over 2 inch bumps because the character controller is fundamentally broken. Enemies standing around waiting for you to kill them. And overhauling AI isn't ever a priority. Combat feels like me getting my arms tangled up in an upright ragdoll until they play one of 2 death sounds and then flop over. Everything just sucks. Why? WHY?
My point is not to say these low-standards people didn't exist before these games did, my issue is that these games (and the coverage of them) are shaping the demographic to be comprised of these people as their target demographic.
This is going to feed back in negatively. This has BEEN feeding back negatively, I should say. It's ongoing. It's already happening. It informs lazy developers that "this is the new era of shovelware, come here to drop off your crap." And lazy creators can just run their content mill off the shovelware to say it changed their lives, and then never touch it again.
Sorry if I sound particularly angry today, the coffee ran out.
I'm not expecting AAA quality (HA!) from a system that is mostly still being carried by tiny indie teams.
Also I don't agree with the ideas like complaining that you barely have to swing your arms in Stride to sprint.
I want EVERYONE to be able to play, not just people who can mimmick the moves of an athlete or soldier.
Buggy controls are shit, I agree. Terrible graphics are terrible graphics.
I'm not trying to strawman, but fun is paramount. If a person tries VR and they don't get it, I'm not going to be able to convince them.
I feel like we need more vr consoles with quality at affordable prices as well as company’s like activision, Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft to use there ips and to get people into the vr market by publishing games with that polish most vr releases need
@jay7art132 I mean I hate Facebook, but I don't really want it to be any more corporate.
I'd choose experimentation that is pure, over corporate involvement that is hollow.
A great example is Assassins Creed Nexus. That game is mediocre at best, and to that shit, I agree. Do not praise it. Condemn major studios thinking they can half ass a game and "wow" us.
I'd rather have diamonds in the rough, than major companies thinking they can take advantage of us.
@@ninjabiatch101 I’m just saying bigger company’s have enough budget and developers to make games that are high quality and are able to execute new ideas more then indies in the vr space imo. Right now it feels Dead especially if you’re a quest player
@@ninjabiatch101 the only quality vr games that have came out are exclusive games to a certain platform that are made by big developers, possibly arkham game might be good and also resident evil as well. That is an example of bad consumerism when it comes to vr so far but yea
@@ninjabiatch101 and vr can be a nice experience where you can experience new things with unique characters dedicated to the platform yes but to have new players that only think of vr as a gimmick seeing ips they enjoy play into the market would be huge.
I agree with you, Mr VR Voice. I think there are a lot of VR players that would listen to more grounded opinions and not just blind praise and hype of any new game coming out. My best performing video was one where I was criticizing a VR game, Bonelab to be precise, instead of my usual positive reviews of games that I really enjoyed.
You nailed it. I was completely hooked 4yrs ago, i bought 3 quest2's, all the games and i watched all the yt'ers religiously tell me how great it was. I became unhappy with the games, the yt'ers always said pcvr was even nore amazing, i bought a pc. short story short, my headsets and PC just collect dust these day. 9/10 games are just demos, its infuriating so i quit..
Have you played Into the Radius?
@PetrusEksteen I have not. I bought 207 quest exclusive games and a couple pcvr games in my 1st 2yrs and haven't touched the headset in the last 2yrs so I missed that one but I've heard good things about it.
@@arenam79 Yeah I haven't really had good experiences with Quest exclusives, they are practically mobile games at this point. If you ever catch a good sale I can at least recommend Into the Radius.
try vertigo 2 actually so good 20 hours story
If you still have your Quest 2, the best games on its store right now in my opinion are Resident Evil 4, Dungeons of Eternity, Compound, and Ancient Dungeon. Into the Radius is also quite good, but it's a little janky. But the first four games I mentioned are all very polished.
Really hope you can end up getting back into VR, because there really are many truly great VR games. You might just have to wade through some busted shit to find them.
Yep, 100% on point with this video. There is a massive Meta propaganda mill that Meta pays for - they lose billions of dollars per month. The reason we get attacked so vigorously when pointing out the garbage that VR devs put out there is because Meta is purchasing this propaganda mill. Because Meta is trying to capture an audience in order to replace your mobile phones in order to eventually be able to filter what you see IRL.
Meta games in general are trash fires. And this trash flows upwards to PSVR2 and PCVR. When we complain the the graphics look like they came from N64 or PS2 days, people say 'its not bad' or 'what do you expect from standalone'.
Again, these people have zero standards because they have been trained by Meta to have no standards. Because they will eventually be the target to allow Meta to control what they see.
And eventually, those people will not 'see' us.
That is the sorry state of VR. People will accuse us for 'destroying VR'. But that sits rightly with VR devs and Meta.
I swear this guy is the narrator in little big planet
this video just read my mind for the thoughts ive been having for the last 4 years for vr. software and experimentation is at a stand still for this platform and its like at this point content creators are blatantly ignoring it. one vr game can feel so similar to the next which is very very bad. its a brand new technology (well 10 years new) and its as if the software hasnt changed at all, most games still do not support the index controllers and most games use the same UI, same mechanics, same controls, same everything and its just so bland. I am also a vr developer too, the tools they give us are pretty powerful but lack serious documentation, they explain nothing about their plugins apart from the obvious, no tips on how to do certain things or anything or even tips of best practices to use their tools and most VR titles are developed by small teams.
thanks for the video
There is not a single vr youtuber I agree more with then you. I now follow your Patreon, paid. I fully support your opinion and view on this market.
I was starting to think that my expectations for VR were too great because everyone else seems to enjoy the very mediocre experiences.
there's a certain youtuber I see constantly plug reviews in the quest store.
most of this stuff is to make a buck.
My headset is collecting dust. The vr market has been dry for years.
It’s a small community. Not big enough for the big outlets to spend much time or attention. Since the devs are also smaller teams than it all becomes so easy for relationships to form. Someone’s bottom line can be hurt by saying what they actually feel. If VR gets bigger this will naturally fix itself.
Couldnt agree more with this statement. I can any popular vr "reviewer" and all they do is pour out positive "reviews" for any vr game out there. Can barely know anything about a game.
Thank you for this video. My pile of shame has grown rapidly since I got VR glasses... precisely because of such false promises and no criticism from the content creators. For me, you are the most reflective VR UA-camr who also analyze in more depth. Greetings from Germany
Pretty perfect video, I 100% agree with everything you said in this video. Before I started watching this channel I never watched videos on vr games because I knew most of them were just gonna say "Next Best VR Game" or something like that, when in reality most are trash and not worth your time.
This video earned you a subscriber. I completely agree with your point and also the part that creators aren't doing this for malicious reasons or because they are secretly paid under the table, they just know that this attitude will make them be seen in a good light by the companies surrounding the VR scene which will send them loads of free accessories and new products knowing that they can be fairly certain that it will not be slaughtered even if it was deserved. And it grows their youtube channel.
Wow. Genuinely never thought of it that way, what an educational video! Yea I do believe that it's getting kind of crazy with some of the most bare minimum kinds of games being praised so highly. I do presume its all apart of the content creation game, and I would be a hypocrite if I said I didn't end up doing this myself at one point or another, but I can tell the upmost truth when I say I was totally unaware of things being this way. Hopefully after watching this video and reading some of the comments here, I can help my own content be of more overall value to individuals and spread the right messages about specific games and/or products I may look at in the future.
The idea that some creators may just genuinely be unaware, and are following a formula in order to grow their channel is a very good point, and I believe it's more common in individuals who are younger and more passionate to become a big creator. I genuinely hope this video gets a better vision across to those smaller content creators in order for them to shape up their content in a realistic, constructive manner whilst still remaining passionate and positive.
It totally feels like a lot of the games that offer the very bog-standard experiences that aren't absolutely ground breaking are being praised far too much for being the "best", and definitely is an issue when it comes to games that *are* worthy of recognition and provide a more than astounding experience, that don't have a shouting voice anymore because it's been far too crowded by influencers shouting about a very standard experience. I'm not demeaning any of the smaller titles whatsoever, and I'm glad more and more companies and games are getting into the market, but I believe *accurate* feedback is incredibly important, especially with regards to hard criticism.
Once again, absolutely amazing video that I hope blows up to reach most of the VR content creation space, and I certainly hope your voice gets across and makes an impact.
Its come to the point I want to make my own game for VR, even by playing non VR games which were then modded into VR games, I gain a lot of knowledge and thoughts on what is a good VR game and what isn't. (at least I hope so, and watching your videos help me lots too) because there is so few good vr games its making me want to learn game development myself.
Great video. I have discussed exactly this on my Discord and live stream numerous times. This is part of the reason I got into VR content creation. There seemed to be a massive amount of hype videos with little to no substance and it seemed most all VR content was the same as the other persons. I was tired of it so I decided to make my own content on how I believed VR content should be. Informative, entertaining, engaging, showing the immersion, and offering quality and reliability in a variety of VR games, headsets and accessories.
Unfortunately, giving constructive criticism or actual input in VR games isn’t what the masses watch in VR.
It’s also incredibly difficult to grow as a new VR content creator or any VR creator. Especially when your content is intended for adults, which my VR community and content is, it automatically puts you at a huge disadvantage. But VR content is incredibly difficult, time consuming, expensive, and takes a vast amount of knowledge on PC parts/software/recording/editing/etc on top of knowing VR.
I spend more time during the week working on VR content, behind the scenes and live streaming, than I do my 40 hour a week job. And I only do it because I am insanely passionate about this and want to do what is right so others can get the best possible VR experiences. But it doesn’t pay, and most of the time my content goes completely unnoticed because I’m not doing the typical hype, mouth open thumbnails, fast and loud, empty impressions VR content. But I will sure as hell continue to do so. My community may not be the biggest, or I may not get views, but I know I’m making a difference and have the greatest VR community around. Maybe one day it’ll get more noticed than the overly generic formula but even if I don’t, hearing and seeing the differences I’m making and the friendships I’ve made are well worth it.
Sorry for the book but I wanted to share my experience and I couldn’t agree more with you. Best of luck. Cheers!
yea and for these prices. it can at least be polished. Blade and sorcery is an example
I have not tryied Blade and Sorcery, but yes, the majority of VR games are very overpriced for the type of content they bring to the table and amount of content, quality of polish and care they offer.
It's true. I don't believe any reviews by any of the top vr youtubers
I bought psvr2 games that got a lot of hype, and in the end I didn't play them much.
The only game that stood the test of time for me is Firewall Ultra, and the team that made that game is no more..
Funny that....or sad.
Ah well, I'll just keep playing the game.
While watching this video, my mind just keeps bringing up that habie147 and other like channels😂.
I get it completely, I have been burned many times by these channels, but thankfully, there are fairly good refund routes in both steam and oculus.
Well said. I've probably attributed to this issue at one point or the other and I've also probably experienced this issue myself, looking at you Showdown. Have seen multiple VR Games get hyped up to go out and try them and thought they were pretty mild experiences or were games that held my hand too much in VR. That stride clip you had in there was just unacceptable. Guess it's why I like harder VR experiences that don't hold your hand that much like Into The Radius or Tabor.
I wonder how hard it is to make a VR game by myself. I'd like to see a few things done, but I'm not sure if it's worth the massive amounts effort.
What do you think of the Blade and Sorcery 1.0 update?
Also yeah… first.
Lots of good stuff, very impressive, greatly admire what they’ve done and their commitment to VR. I don’t get on with the final game personally though because the fundamental conflict to motivate me to engage with anything meaningfully is sabotaged by the braindead AI which demand nothing from me and pose no threat or challenge. It’s a deal breaker and something I can’t look past. But I understand this doesn’t bother many many others and I’m glad they can enjoy it.
@@MrVRVoicewhat are your thoughts on the approach they took (not how well they were able to do it) where they made it easy to mod the game via first party mod support? This somehow feels lazy to me but depending on how great they mod support is, it could be a great way to keep the game alive long after the financial beneficial fase has died. Would love to hear your opinion on it, personally I am not really sure what to thing about it
@@producdevity I don’t have very much to add in that regard. I’ve never cared for mod support and don’t regard it with any significance or importance as a factor for my purchasing/play decisions, though I absolutely acknowledge its obvious value to others on many levels, and would rather it be there than not, even if I don’t understand or care for it. I think the recent higher demand for it might be a generational preference, as I’ve noticed the younger ones regard it with much higher importance than my peers do 🤷🏻♂
As for whether it’s used as a crutch or is lazy or would take away from more official additions, I guess that depends on and context and/or how fully featured the game already is? In this age of early access, half-finished software and an entry level for game dev that is now so low compared to before, plummeting the standards, I think there might be validity to the argument it’s more likely to be used as a crutch in today’s age of gaming. But yeah, otherwise not much to add, mod support has always been very “blah” for me.
@@MrVRVoice very interesting! I agree with a lot of things you said but I am left wondering how someone like you, who in my eyes seeks immersion in VR experiences, has little to no interest in mods. With all the respect, but is it a lack of experience with mods, avoidance of it because of previous experience or something else? Just to be clear, I don’t see mod support as an excuse for the lack of quality developers are getting away with in the VR space, just curious to your lack of interests in mods
Unfortunately for me, I have been victim of said toxic positivity. There have been many instances that I had been sold solely from overhyping, only to be left a bit underwhelmed or even disappointed.
I am all for this take. It hurts to see the community surrounding VR to continually shoot itself in the foot.
Great video MR VR Voice, I have only PSVR/2 and sadly the most famous channel, Without Parole, always over hypes low Poly games, POCs, etc.
I appreciate them covering news, reviews, etc. But whenever a trailer for a new game comes out, most of the time they just overhype crappy games..
Yep, Without Parole is toxic because he has been doing VR since the PSVR1 and ONLY does VR. When you only do VR for this long, you lose the ability to be criticial because you have been swimming through dogshit for like a decade. I suggested that he take a break from VR and play some great flat screen games to get a taste of what 'good' looks like.
Yeh it’s usually the same 10 creators saying the same shit over and over again
I agree with much of what you are saying.
I genuinely like Contractors Showdown, despite it's flaws, and to be honest, I chalked some of the issues up to my skill level at first.
I have had to give a couple bsd reviews in my short time of being a content creator. Happy Funland and Apollo 13 the lost tapes received horrible reviews from me. I won't pretend that it felt good to do so, but my loyalty is with the few viewers I have.
Since then I have just been a bit pickier, about what I review.
I bought dungeons of eternity based on the hype reviews. After playing it i was like wtf is this sh!t.
samee
The first few days it seemed revolutionary, then the sheen wore off, and I realized it was just another pointless tech demo.
best vrtuber hands down
vrtuber is one letter away from something a lot more different
@@libertarianterminatori dont get it, and idk if I should
Im new to the VR world and I already noticed it's hard to find good game content that isn't obviously exaggerated and "OMG GUYS THIS IS THE AMAZING BEST GAME EVER MADE".
It makes it hard to take any game review seriously for VR, Your "15 high quality" list was very good and trustworthy.
So many little on to five man teams working tirelessly to give us games that are "okay". I'd like to see come collaboration among these teams. Bring out the best aspects of their respective projects. Give us 5 really good games instead of 50 that are kinda "meh".
I think the reason you tend to see the angry responses when you try to point out flaws without trying to dance around it is because of a lot of VR games being developed by smaller studios if not a single person making it easier for people to emphasize with them, along with the smaller user base in comparison to flatscreen gaming making people concerned being overly critical would drive people away from VR. I’d argue otherwise. I feel like a small team or single person can design masterpieces of games, we’ve seen this several times in the flatscreen space, and I think it would give the passionate devs more drive to improve, thus overtime making VR more attractive to new users. I feel we’ve seen this with Vertigo 1 and 2 for example. Another issue is that I feel like any game with good physics is automatically seen as immersive (look at B&S 1.0 despite its flaws with the AI that were there since the beginning like them being able to be easily tripped). Hopefully my stupid ass words this well.
rarely do I see people talk about blade and sorcerys physics lmao
I completely agree with this sentiment. I love and speak up for VR as much as possible but I'm still in the camp where I feel like I'm endlessly waiting for the next successor to Alyx and I do realise that game was a result of a huge risk and investment by a big company. The current market and the push towards console VR has kind of made it feel like PCVR has been pushed back a few years. The result seems to be that we're left with many uninspiring or undercooked products, despite the enthusiasm and commitment of the devs involved. The good news is that August looks to be rich with some amazing releases with plenty of small devs releasing potentially captivating and provoking concepts between now and then.
We need to be bold in our support, but not shy in critique where it is needed.
VR were never hyped. It is just simply amazing because it works well while having huge potential than any other technology.
It is the PC and internet of the 21st century.
It still need some breathing room with softwares and supports.
I don't get all the bashing of it without actual logical clue than just making vr haters whom never even tried one happy 😅
Good video, I understand that there are some issues that you cannot really get around because they're industry-level issues. Still, they're issues we should be talking about and remedying before we latch on and support VR so willingly. Good things come in time, but having a debt to undo before we can make it better is a bad call.
The most popular consumer headset is owned and operated by Facebook (regardless of branding with Meta, Facebook's DNA is directly involved) which brings forth a necessity to collect user data (sometimes unwarranted levels of it) and promote services instead of meaningful, thought-provoking or mold-breaking stories or gameplay mechanics. Truly innovative games are once-in-a-while, high quality games are still uncommon and consequently hamstrung by being on half a phone CPU, and any attempts to argue that a game is rough around the edges or exploitative get lost in the wave of hype and taunting for being pessimistic about new technology.
All the while, history for VR is iffy at best and made worse by the lack of support for the software. PSVR2 has no compatibility with PSVR1 software, you either have to wait on the developer to have released a PSVR2-specific update, buy their PSVR2 edition, or have the whole other headset complete with the PS Move controllers to play PSVR1... or just get screwed, maybe they'll release a sequel, but not give you a way to play the first game on PSVR2. GearVR predated the Oculus Go, but its software should remain compatible. It's not, GearVR games barely work on the Go now due in part to software updates to the Go, as well as finger-pointing between Samsung and Facebook about who manages the rights and downloads to what (licensing is a Samsung dilemma, the downloads are on Facebook servers, however) so we're already in the midst of VR gaming lost media; that ignores that almost all GearVR/Go software is largely incompatible with the Quest hardware now.
A lot of the real excitement I've seen is in the Flat2VR spaces, where simply modding an existing game from flatscreen into VR has had tons of momentum, largely thanks to Praydog's Unreal Engine VR Injector tool. There's now a streamlined one-click process to play a ton of games in VR, and with enough tinkering, it can be borderline official-looking... But PC hardware is ridiculously expensive now, and the hardware you need to play, say, Cyberpunk 2077, or Pacific Drive, with VR mods involved is generally much higher than the OG specs needed. You almost need to have the 4080s and RX 7900XTX to pull it off without too much ASW or DSR ruining the fidelity.
And yeah, if native VR games can be jank, Flat2VR modding is like taking VR jank and adding Linux to the mix. VR on Linux is a literally different subject I will not get into, but jank is prevalent at all layers. We need the PSVR2 PC headset disruption to come soon. We need powerful hardware to become more affordable, we need more efficiency in the hardware so the Quest can stop being just a Gamecube on your face, and we need companies willing to invest, take risks, and lose money to evolve the industry. At this point, it's all a pursuit of ROI for Facebook.
Need to get PSVR2 Adapter working with Linux!
It's just a situation where the technology isn't in every other household like modern video game hardware is today so any scraps of software this hardware can recieve has to be praised because there's no where else to go, if a VR game comes out and it has a interesting idea or has a decent amount of funding you are sort of stuck in tunnel vision and you really hope it's good because if it's not all you can do is go back to games you've already completed that came out years ago and you can count these amount of decent games on 1 hand. Compare that to other platforms, if you don't like a new game on a current PC you can look at an ocean of software to fill your interest, you can go back to 3 decades maybe even 4 of video game software that you'll find interesting. If VR hardware was widely adopted and had a history worth playing there would be more reason for the software to be better as there would be competition in the market that's worth challenging and dominating.
You do indeed have access to PC/Switch/Mobile/Console games. This is the problem with VR content creators in general, they focus just on VR. When you focus on just VR, you extremly limited and by this vary nature causes you to lower your standards because of what is on offer. If you are a hybrid gamer, you are going to have a much healthier gaming pallet. So you would be free to critize VR as you see fit because you have a plethra of games to choose from (not limiting yourself to just VR).
I'm glad you clarified that you believe most people are just unaware/apathetic to their contribution of the issue. I find that people tend to want to view issues in a certain unproductive 'our side their side' totality.
This extends to hardware too and even worse the *forever actually broken* software updates.
I think WRC VR was my last public rant, exactly the same situation of everyone on UA-cam jumping on a bandwagon of hype with absolutely no regard for how shit the experience really is, but hey, it looks good in recordings right? Screw what the user will see.
Like and subscribe for more!
Loving the mgs2 background music
There are indeed a few content creators who overly hype mediocrity and after a while I get tired of giving them thumbs down and just leave.
This is the same for flat screen gaming but they do the opposite. They are overly negative and have nothing to add to a review but what they've heard from another reviewer or read on twitter. They capture 1 min of gameplay and repeat that the game is bad for 20 min without any facts.
@Mr VR Voice. The only honest non-slaved-influencer on the planet. Keep up the good voice -- uhm -- work.
Checkout PolishVR - he points out most of the games are Shit.
The only geniune VR channels I find are the ones specializing in VR flight simming. Everyone else, with a very few exceptions .....yes they feel like very obvious hype merchants. Btw, you should work for the BBC as a newsreader!
I enjoy many flat games. I know that melee fighting works in boundaries, restricted areas the arm can swing in, and you need to time the attacks. Witcher3 is a great example of that. I can't imagine melee fighting in VR. What does the program do when you move your arms continuously? There are no restrictions possible in VR. Thus, Witcher does not work in VR. We would need a real martial arts fighting engine for the program to react to chaotic human movements. But this would require every user to use similar motion tracking hardware, which would never happen. On the other hand, shooting games should work, not? What about Quake3 arena in VR?
I Love Pop1, Pistol Whip, Contractors, Guardians Frontline, Robo Recall, Anshar 2, Vader Immortal, and many, many others.
i got myself a lot of time wasting money on this hype just because i wanted to spend good time in some VR game and at the end of a day i was playing around 6 games which in my opinion are only worth your time and coming back to, at this moment i stopped playing anything on VR cuz all stuff that is coming out now is only "promising" early access with small update once per half year for 30 dollars at start and even more for early alpha state projects, the way all this is going is not promising anything good in future
you played blade n sorcery yet?
@@nothing-fh8vi i got my hands on it and it is one of this good one imo
Funny you have so much content of breachers in here. I used to work at The Park (a Vr arcade by Triangle factory, the Devs of breachers). Which was a horrible few months of my life. The games presented in The Park arcade were lacking and outdated, buggy experienced. They promote 7 or 8 year old vr experiences, as if they are "new" and "what resembles vr today". Which is the cause I fired myself. They give their clients an outdated vr experience which causes almost everyone to be disappointed or simply annoyed, because everything was buggy, ran like crap, and often refused to work at all. Worst thing about it, a 1 hour vr arcade experience at the park costs 40 euro,s
Never heard someone say they fired them selves before. I guess thats one way to quit
@@kcchiefsproductions8687 Hmm. English is not my native language. I quess you are correct. I quit.
@morkofficial1 Personally to me , it came off as a joke that still got the point across , so I think you are doing good
@@TijnvanGimst Yea, I thought it was a joke too -- had me laughing. Thanks for the info.
I mean, look at how much tarisland paid creators off to positively review their game
You said it so many times and I didn’t want to believe it but combat waffle really doesn’t seem like they have intentions on making their game the best out, with their latest update I feel like they are trying to complete with showdown imo. Despite what you think about the game I stuck with it but now they are doing things that’s breaking my immersion to it
I am not sure, but players want to hear something to get excited about. 2 months after release most games are dead anyway (in player count). Hype is just there to have a very small period where everyone is playing a game, everyone is posting about this game, and everyone is engaged with a game. It's never about the game, it's about social presence. The game lifecycle also makes improving a game after release almost pointless (it's good for developer reputation, but not for the game success itself).
To help negate that cycle of excitement to fast comedown like hapless junkies scrambling to get their next ‘hit’ no matter the quality, we can also try having a high quality enduring, multiplayer VR game with plenty of depth which plays to the medium and has meaningful social persistence from the get go that can stand the test of time and make any future updates and additions exciting because the base foundation is already compelling, solid, and satisfying enough. Aka, a good (complete) game. Wishful thinking perhaps.
VR is the future of PC man.
And Playstation
Nah, as much as I love VR I don't think it's gonna replace normal games
@@k0lpA Not like that. Vr will be a big thing not just a niche part of the market. Today we have, mobile, portables consoles, consoles and Desktop. One day the end of this list wil be VR. Likea piramid of hardware possibilities.
It's across the gaming space. I used to always want to pick up my controller nowadays I'm just bored with it all its all the same garbage that overhyped........fake news as we say! I tend to use vr for watching media or simracing because vr games are generally poor overhyped influencer pushed garbage
I agree with most of this vid and think that people should probably stop overhyping every single release, but the clip of Battle Talent seems a bit disingenuous, given how enemies and bosses later into the game will not hesitate to merc you if you aren't actively parrying and dodging. (Edited to mention I do agree fodder enemies are faltered a lil too easily, hope that gets addressed sooner rather than later)
i only watch Habbie threenumbers and i think hes p good at this stuff :3
Here’s a VR topic I think is worth discussing:
A while ago I started to feel pain in my bicep and it kept increasing, I tried physiotherapy for months but to no benefit, finally I noticed that the pain goes when I just relax my arm and stop exercising it, and after some time I found that the pain came back after playing certain VR games.
They are these types of games that require strong downward movements of your arm (example: Gorilla tag, Outta hand, no more rainbows, etc…); games where you have to move and jump by using your arms only.
It’s unnatural and might lead many players to health problems. After stopping playing these games, my bicep completely recovered.
Eventually, I believe it is bad for the VR industry if it will lead many players to similar experiences as mine.
I’m sure there are other types of games that require unnatural movements that may lead to health problems.
It might mean you played too often. It similar to exercise, if you do it extremely hard every day eventually you will break.
The more pain point for majority of players would be headset weight and game that requires insanely fast neck movement. Especailly one that requires you to look up or down frequently (Population One, Contractors Showdown, Brazen Blaze, etc)
Looking up or down is unnatural in VR because you have huge weight strap to your face.
There has been POP1 player neck broken because of fast movement it requires.
Mr VR Voice has made a great point on this already with the video: "How a VR Shooter Should Play"
@@SkyYukiGuy I wasn’t playing too often, I couldn’t actually because of the quest’s battery, and I never play more than once a day, but the play session itself was vigorous. I was playing Outta hand and in that game you need to jump with your hand, and then you need to flap your arms like a bird to do multiple air jumps. Moreover, the game had some hidden collectibles that require difficult challenge jumps and platforming, I died a lot trying to get it so I had to excessively repeat that movement to reach these areas.
You are VR Jesus
honestly, my intrest in vr mostly wained after i first played in vr. though i do still want to get a new vr kit, just to make entertainment media
What was the most impressive game you played & on what headset?
honestly i dont remember, and it was an older htc vive (which as of right now is in storage and i think broken. last time i used it, seemed to have issues]
mgs2 background music, nice.
Voice what do you think about the quality of Vail as a shooter?
Love ur vids
This is litterraly the "jammyhero" channel, almost every single video is tagged with these words even with the crapiest vr games and the fact this guy is a guest for the psvrsansparole is beyond me, I really wished Bryan will invite you instead of this sponsors chaser liar. Thank you Mr VR Voice❤
Bryan suffers from this too. See his latest video where he talks about Tier One. He can even bring himself to say the graphics are bad. He just says 'well'. That is how toxically positive he is.
Truth.
What are your thoughts on the itr2 situation?
Half Life Alyx is 4 years old and we still had nothing really better since.
BONEWORKS is 4 years old and we STILL have games that can't even MATCH its janky, albeit impressive for the time, experience since.
I recently started to play blade and sorcery 1.0 and keep saying in my head, "boneworks does this better." "Boneworks' AI is better." "Boneworks' climbing is better." "Boneworks' movement is better." "Boneworks' campaign is better." "Boneworks' (((story))) is better."
What a shame.
@@JakeA6956 Ai is better? I mean the b&s ai is kinda stupid but the boneworks ai is just walking to you and slapping you, or laughing while they hit you with punches that go through your neck. the ai is better in b&s. Also boneworks movement is slow
@@sodicious Yeah, they actually attack you
ergo
better
they have to lie to you and force positive VR "hype" because the games and hardware can't carry the weight behind the promise. also AwakenToast and BeardoBenjo are FULLY aware of what they are doing. you dont have to pussy foot around the obivous.