There's a clever bit of irony in the concept of the Indifference bringing the Tenno into the uncanny valley. There's almost certinly a degree of transhuman dread the humanoid characters feelwhen looking at our warframes... operating, and yet even we have something inhuman yet so mockingly human in its action that we have to fear as well.
Uncanny valley, as off-putting as it is, has its own charm, hence skibidi toilet being so popular. Man in the wall and the great indifference are charming bc of them being uncanny valley and eldritch in a sense
It's not just the Warframes - it's the Tenno themselves. They're commonly referred to as "Void Demons" by others. In my understanding, they're essentially what happened to Curtis in Phantasmagoria 2 - they aren't human (or Orokin), but rather something else which took their places in the Void. What came back wasn't children, but monsters who are convinced they are children.
When you first meet wally on the zariman, there is some interesting dialogue that is easily overlooked. Your tenno had picked up one of those globe lights, you check on the room, you approach wally. Your tenno says "i think you lost your light, here you can have mine" wally says "thanks kiddo, i think i will" Always thought that had some deeper meaning.
The way I see it that dialogue told us everything it wants think about it, the sacrifice it was happy our minds were confused on if we were still us or umbra, then it was happier as ballas died, but it’s still not able to do something, and I’m guessing it doesn’t know how to fully get out it’s wall form and wants a way to transfer into the perfect corrupted vessel to move freely
But if you go to duviri, it’s new dashing man form hates the drifter, which I assume is because they can switch with the operator and that’s what it wanted to have the ability to do
@@TheDsIEGE it also is shaped like *Oro.* What did the man in the wall do? Shaped us like... what we are now. TMITW didn't just take our light, he took our Oro and shaped it as he pleased.
Everything has a place and time... but I dont like eLdRiTcH hOrrOrS getting shoehorned into every major game or game series... Feels like such a crutch. I feel it's out of place in games like Warcraft 3 or Fallout 3. I'm particularily allergic to tentacled bipedal squidfaces that drop by uninvited into my beloved game franchises. What if I was a game designer and started shoehorning in furry, brony, weeb culture into Resident Evil series? What Blizzard developers made all the evils in Diablo universe subservient to tentactled squidface? I'd be so void (pun intended) of talent and lazy and it's make no sense. That being said, I do like the whole HEY KIDDO! /rap-tap-tap /and man-in-the-wall.gif aspect of warframe. Albeit a little too-on-the-nose in the way of how it's told to the player.
@@OlviMasta77 But it's not shoehorned in, like, at all. At least, not in the context of Warframe, because it's been there since before Warframe was even Warframe. Warframe's spiritual predecessor Dark Sector has in it the horrific and mysterious Technocyte VIrus, and by its name one would assume that it might be completely technological in origin. But that may not be the case, as two notable quotes from the characters Yargo Mensik and Robert Mezner respectively show hints of underlying eldritch horror, with the former making a mention of "the Old Ones" and the latter speaking of "A chorus of drowning voices... Calling out for a savior!" The Technocyte Virus potentially has origins from the deep ocean that was discovered, researched, reengineered and weaponized by the United States military. It got out and caused two outbreaks - the first one being stopped, and the second one culminating in Robert Mezner going insane and infecting the entire planet with the Virus via a mysterious electric signal in an event known as the Great Plague.
Just a small correction: there is no proper pronunciation of Cthulhu. Which is intentional because the names of those elder beings were not meant for human minds or mouths. Lovecraft wanted his imagined horrors to be truly alien, despite his faults he understood how terrifying the unknown is.
Correction of your correction: There is a proper pronunciation, but for a human to actually say. Lovecraft stated that "K'lulu" is the closest approximation our mouths can form.
I think the void is very warplike in that I don't think the indifference existed until Albrecht made contact and fell into it. I think indifference as a being was created the moment Albrecht saw the reflection of himself in the void, the intense fear of the unknowable growing with each moment the thing in front of him starts mimicking, first his looks, then his voice and memories and then it kept growing with the subconscious dread of an uncaring and empty dimension twisting and warping him from the insides. I think he opened Pandora's box and every second he was in the void was just like opening five more Pandora's boxes.
This seems like a very real possibility considering the existence of Duviri. And we've already been shown many times that the void operates on its own rules and logic that defies any rules and logic that we may know in our own world. The main key being that the void defies causality. There doesn't have to be reason why something happens within the void, things can just be.
The more I see the Man in The Wall act or take part in the story, the more I get the feeling that he’s simply adjusting chess pieces to achieve an inevitable outcome where he gets what he wants. That no matter what we do, it’s inevitable that the Man in the Wall will succeed and that all we’ve been able to achieve was just slowing him down and prolonging the inevitable whether it be Rell keeping TMITW’s “gaze”, beating back the Angels of Zahriman, or the breaking off of the Duviri islands once they showed signs of TMITW influence and invading.
@@TheDsIEGE I mean just look at his Behavior throughout the story. Entrati may have escaped him and closed the portal to the Void before he could come through… but his finger was able to slip through. A finger that would go on to power Void technology such as the Zariman ten zero which got trapped in the Void which was filled to the brim with children who couldn’t properly control their emotions with minds that were underdeveloped enough to adapt to the Void rather than go mad like the adults. One (or more) of those children was also desperate enough to make a deal with him, becoming a sort of anchor, Vassal, or vessel for TMITW when Entrati didn’t. He undoubtedly lurked in the shadows, gaining influence and possibly power over the Tenno as they unearthed their repressed memories and gained control over their Void powers as a result. The best comparison I can make with this is Bloodborne where Insight allows players to perceive the Eldritch truth and see the Great Ones while simultaneously also making the build up of Frenzy increase. It’s a double sword as while they gain perception and greater power, they now know of the greater horrors that ignorance once hid with madness and frenzy (or in this case, TMITW control) now being more likely. This is all while the presence of the Void increased in the Origin system on account of the Orokin implementing it into nearly every facet of life, meaning part of TMITW is in every piece of tech in the Orogin system on some level. Rell may have been able to hold his attention for a time, but it seems oddly coincidental that Rell’s ability to keep TMITW at bay seems to run out when the Tenno both return and become more capable than ever (obviously ignoring the meta reasoning of quest releases to expand lore). TMITW also goes on to show visions to the Tenno which sometimes impacts their actions or thoughts, or even as far as allowing the creation of certain tools that help push its agenda such as the Paracesis since Ballas only gave the Tenno the blueprint via a vision TMITW caused. Then there’s the how time seemed to work very optimally in Duviri with events or arrivals or departures in Duviri seemingly to be perfectly timed or coordinated to make things happen and change. It’s like TMITW has a “hand” (pun intended) in everything that goes on that directly or indirectly involves the Void even when we don’t realize it, and it’s all to serve his own ends. The thing about him being the “great indifference” also gives me a potential idea as to WHY he does what he does. What’s the Void at the end of the day? It’s essentially all possibilities of time in existence all recorded in a separate dimensions where thought controls all. It’s practically infinite knowledge incarnate and even personified. So imagine an entity that embodies this space. That controls it and is as much a part of it as it is a part of them. They essentially are omniscient and omnipotent. They KNOW everything because they can perceive and understand every possibility in existence, including all of past, present, and futures. They are also all powerful because of the nature of the Void being fueled by thought, controlling altering just about anything with physics being regularly changed, and time being “whatever” in its truest sense. The ONLY limitation for such a being is that they’re trapped in the Void and can’t do the same in the physical world. And for such a all powerful and all knowing being, it must be boring to basically know everything there has, is, and will be. There’s no questions to be answered. There’s nothing to achieve. Such a being would find that existence dreadfully boring and it’s not like there was a period where they were ignorant and then gradually gained all this knowledge and power. At best when they came into existence, there was the smallest instant where they were like everyone else. Ignorant, curious, young, and needing to grow. Before they suddenly learn everything and gained everything through the Void. By having the Void leak into the physical world and influencing it, TMITW is essentially finding a way to circumvent his omniscience as well as partake in a challenge. He basically wants excitement and to potentially find something he doesn’t know about. To discover and see what happens as if it’s a show. To do anything to have some form of interest or intrigue rather than the ever prevalent indifference that comes with being all knowing and all powerful
@@wizardwolf1020Wally's ultimate goal being to engineer a means to circumvent his own omniscience, to create an event the results of which he himself cannot predict, out of sheer, overwhelming boredom, would be kinda awesome. Partially in that it kinda mimics us, indifferently massacring millions upon millions simply for the possibility of gaining something to entertain ourselves with.
@@notsae66 I mean let’s compare this to video games. Wally is basically that player that’s broken the game down from top to bottom. Ranging the know how from programming, gameplay, story, development, the people involved, where it was sold, the different achievements, etc. literally everything tied to the game while also being able to play it masterfully without any flaw or mistake with everything that can be unlocked or found, unlocked and found. They essentially reach a point where there’s nothing left to achieve or find nothing new to do with that game. So what do they do? Well ingnoring the obvious solution being to play a different/new game. The player starts making alterations and intentionally altering things just to see if there’s something new to be learned/found or even to get some sense of challenge
I mean, a lot of his videos are a lot more him than they are Warframe. Like, he does mostly speculation about what things COULD mean, that we have no way of knowing if they DO mean. So uh... I guess that's a compliment to him.
One of the scariest moments I have ever seen put to film was in "The Strangers". At the end of the film this family of killers in animal masks slaughters a woman's husband in front of her and makes her watch. When she screams, "Why?! Why are you doing this?!" one of the family members pulls up her mask to reveal that she is just a teenage girl and says with a smile, "Because we can." It's the horror of an enemy that has no deeper motivation, that can't be reasoned, bribed or bargained with. In truth it's probably the same dread a Corpus or Grineer feels when they see a Warframe.
I mean to be fair, the corpus and grineer we fight aren't like civilians, they're the soldiers of two oppressive system-wide establishments. We the player might be doing it for fun, but we're an outside factor from the story.
@@SissypheanCatboy I don't know about that, we kill hundreds of their ranks without a second thought, even after an extermination mission, they try to fleed and we just chase them down... And one important note, we are the ones attacking them, even if they are a piece of garbage, they still try to fight for their lives and their faction, we don't... We do it because we can do it, Orokin too, the Tenno kill them because they simply can and at the very beginning, the story as is developed, sometimes feels like we shouldn't listen to the Lotus. There is a ton of the indifference
@@Voldrim359 see but here's the issue, chief. The tenno are not a big, powerful empire. They are a small bunch of rebels, and in-universe you are one of the very few tenno who actually have a warframe. The tenno can't be expected to fight fair, because if they did they'd be as irrelevant and powerless as the honor-fetishizing Arbiters of Hexus.
@@Voldrim359 i mean why would you feel remorse to the grineer and corpus? Theyre both trying to screw every civilian in the system either by killing, torturing, transforming, experimenting and god knows what else theyve done. The way i see it the tenno are like an immune system trying to keep everything in order
I think the Man In The Wall manifests as our Warframe powers. Literally destroying countless lives every time we start a mission. We know Transference and our Warframe abilities are only possible via "void magic." It's not a stretch to think Man plays an active hand in this.
bro just showed up during the final battle of our current storyline with such power that the main boss and the chapion defeating him could basically not even stand, said some words and left. he's more powerful than everything we've seen so far
I feel like The Indifference is less like it’s always watching us as more like it’s constantly aware of us. Kinda like the interactions with the main antagonist of system shock and the player, we’re practically a little insect crawling around under The Indifference’s skin. Since they’re potentially the conscious of the void itself that’s a reality atop our own. And at anytime can crush us into nothingness, especially due to our deal with them. In the story of warframe we’re not the equivalent of the tau or the imperium of man, not even the eldar, orks or the tyrannids being the sentient’s roll to play. But the mindless necron foot soldier, we might be funny if you’re one of us or allied to us - but to others were a terrifying, ancient war machine that’s nearly impossible to kill with our basic weapons being insanely powerful and kill anything in our way without ever saying a word. And at anytime the one who stands above us can do as he pleases with us. Saying were good or evil kinda loses its meaning, when were the chosen one of a god who just couldn’t care. Are we even alive anymore or just the living idea of ourselves from before the deal - like the difter is to dominus thrax? In other words, Were the jrpg puppet dictator of a dark god. Frown aside once formalities are no longer needed to start the final boss.
You said something to the effect of "what if he's always there..." and you happen to be right. I recently paused as soon as I got back to my orbiter and went into decoration. On my way back from the other side of the ship suddenly I notice Wally hiding frozen behind a corner, leaning around and peeking from behind the wall (from right next to the railjack entrance). No "hey kiddo" or anything, just creeping around the ship silently watching. Happy Halloween indeed!
Happy Halloween to you too.:D And also nice snipes at the Bungie for cutting loose a whole heap of their staff out of the blue, what a horrific thing for them to do during the holiday season.
Don’t lose your light my friend. It’s all we have. Don’t forget that indifference is an illusion. Things always matter, that’s just how it is and someone, maybe someone you don’t even realize but someone probably relies on yours. Maybe more than one person. Keeping your light inspires others to do the same. Whatever you do, NEVER GIVE UP, NEVER GIVE IN. Life is what you make of it.
I don't want to even consider why the human brain has a mechanism to recognize 'almost people' and why the response to that is discomfort/fear Why did we evolve to be afraid of thing that hadn't existed until the modern age 😢
The Man in the wall could be like a kid scorching ants with a magnifying glass. Also one thing that originally made me fall for Warframe is the fact that it is a looter shooter that on first glance doesn't look like it has anything deep to it. But when you take the time to dive into it, you realize that what looked like just a looter shooter has so much more depth than some rpg games.
The way you edited that intro was utterly incredible. Wild to me that harrow's quest was so long ago now, and the theming for the man in the wall is still so consistent and horrifying.
wally disappears when you pan away, but if you notice he does not disappear if your warframe is facing away but the camera is not. Hes staring through the fourth wall. (okay I am sure the script that decides to follow him is based on the camera not the character but still fun to think on)
Im pretty sure he no longer does that. Right when chains of harrow was released, he used to act like that. But nowadays (in my experience) his appearnce has a fixed timer.
Nah I think you nailed it. It feels completely intentional, and I think that’s what makes truly excellent video game horror: they want YOU to know that this entity sees you sitting at your desk, but they will never acknowledge it right out
So I have a theory that The Man in the Wall is actually being locked in the void, similar to how we Tenno can either have only the operator or the drifter outside (hinted at by the cutscene during the New War, where time is up and we have to choose.) We offer our light to him during the handshake allowing him a wider window to see into our dimension. The reason he wanted us was so that he was not stuck in a dimension of nothing but that it could now take on a form from the light we shared, hence Duviri Plains. I believe Albrecht's maiden voyage into the void was the first time the void had taken a shape and the first emotion that was pushed out was the fear he felt both from his potential failure but also when someone he didn't know told him "Little Bengal", something only he knew. I believe we will get a more definitive answer during Whispers in the Wall but that more questions will be raised, only to be answered more during 1999. I feel that Wallie might not be a final boss, more like an indifferent guide in the land in-between, the void. I also have a theory that the new faction Murmurs will be the remnants of what the Sentients left behind, their inability to reproduce stripped from them, the unborn, The Murmurs of what could have been. Just a few of the thoughts I have rumbling in my brain. Appreciate the fun and thought provoking videos as always TheDsIEGE!
Rell's whole deal was keeping Wally at bay, but after subsequently killing him, he remained in his Warframe, and the mantle of keeping Wally in the void falls unto us.
This shines more than bright, especially the last quote and perspective not just through game but individual levels. Alchemy and hermeticism in consciousness and subconscious. I've had powerful dreams of fear and darkness.... But all comes down to avenues.. what path will you take? A Ryma path or an ironic but blind sided path. We are all part of a collective but in which degree does one weigh heavier through individual thought processes. Which makes me think of the Bible of you are your own temple. But I digress. There's far more than what meets the eye(s). Thus for, was it I who is wrong, or was it the other.....
Picked up on the naming of "Indifference", as that really is the core of cosmic horror - a seemingly all-powerful, unknowable force so grand and imposing, and yet completely _indifferent_ to that which it threatens. The idea that there's something _so_ much bigger than us, that it doesn't even bat an eye at the thought of extinguishing our existence.
Alt hypothesis: A being who has never had to interact with things suddenly does and so takes the only form it knows, you. The first reaction everyone has is fear so it associates itself with such as does our subconscious but it wants to interact hence exaggerated smile and jump scares but no grotesque or threatening horrors. So all in all outer dimensional space daddy in the wall knows nothing about interactions and morality but from us and the sociopath albrecht is just trying to interact with this new intriguing material universe.
I watched a video yesterday about how someone explained that cosmic horror is scary to a lot of people because there's this huge entity that could kill you in the blink of eye. However I made a comment where I mentioned the Man In The Wall and how it's scary because it doesn't kill you. It plays with its victims. Bending their reality and memories to his will. It even does the opposite where it keeps his victims alive. And that's what makes him scary to me. The idea of being killed in an instant by something larger than me doesn't scare me. Being small doesn't scare me either. Idk you could die in an instant in your day to day life too. You could simply cross the street, not paying attention and get hit by a bus. And the idea of being small and insignificant isn't new to me either. Being significant to the people that matter to myself is much more important than how big I am in the universe or my own planet. But the idea that this bug cosmic force that can destroy everything doesn't do that, but instead just bends and twists everything you've ever known, and then keeping you alive, forcing you to be its toy. While you can never escape it, because it's everywhere, it watches you everything and shows and disappears as it pleases and no one knows why it does this. That is scary to me.
It's amazing how early many concepts for The Man In The Wall were introduced or at least hinted at. The story and ideas DE are presenting in Warframe are great and presented in a unique way. Thanks for making me look and listen more closely :D
Ok, kinda unrelated to the idea of the video, but the scene at 8:20 where erra says "dont be afraid" reminded me of that one thing in the bible where everytime an angel appeared they said that, and i got a big ass goosebump from that
This game really goes hard if you pay attention. There’s a ton of deep concepts baked into the lore. I’ll keep trying to dig and find the good stuff for you all.
Something i was thinking while watching the video is the color of indifference, grey, no feeling's, just grey, at that got my thinking of the Duviri paradox Questline at the beginning the color is grey, as the drifter is full of apathy. However, this start to changes when The drifter meets Teshin and continues with the adventure, in the end Duviri is full of colors as The Drifter is full of feeling's. When we make the deal with Wally, we exchange void powers for our light, or that's what he told us, as Quin told we have our own light that reflets two shadows, one represents us and the other Wally. But what we decide to do with the second shadow could seal our fate, do we hate that shadow and make our light shine brighter so there's only one, do we embrace this shadow and turn off our light so we can become one, or we find another way one that keeps our light and the other shadow controlling the indifferences and the feeling's. One path is just light an nothing more, feelings but not thinking, but only our feelings, egocentrism The other one rational darkness, indifferent to our own feelings, and indifferent to other people feelings, apathy And multiple paths between the dark and light, guided by feelings but measured with rationality, humanity The decision of the path that we follow is in our hands.
you put into words an idea I was trying to figure out for so long now. This is how the alignment in Warframe ties into the themes of the game, it was right there and i just didn't see it! The all feelings path is indifferent to everyone else's thoughts and feelings and beliefs, while all rational is indifferent to any mutable feelings it comes into contact with. Both the light and the dark, at their most extreme, are indifferent, and thus no better than the Indifference. But taking the paths in the middle leads us to be more affected by others, we care more the closer we get to the center. The alignment isn't about being good, not directly, it's about finding a place between two very different kinds of Indifference. Thanks for figuring it out (a brief aside, I believe the center paths are best represented by eclipses, as an eclipse has both blinding light and suffocating darkness, in some ways a clash between the two, in others a combination. Also, eclipses are caused by the two cosmic bodies affecting how light is cast, thus the eclipse effect is the direct result of multiple interactions occuring, unlike a grey void.)
I made enormous mistake to do chains of harrow at midnight on Friday the 13th in middle of a thunderstorm. I totally set myself up to be physiologically scared
Who's to say he's running around using your likeness? He's an otherworldly being, I'd be willing to bet that what you see isn't the same as what other simultaneous witnesses would see.
Not only that, but the word "C'thulhu" is only a rough approximation, since human vocal chords can't replicate the noises that make up the language his name is in, since it's spoken by aliens Still though I've never heard it called "kalooloo", that's just nonsense
I note the extreme points of the compass changes you're personality in the way lines are delivered. the white has an element of being driven by emotion. while the all black has a similar shade of indifference in it
Another interesting video! I'd never thought about the whole fear factor behind 'indifference' as a concept. Top 3 lore hopes for me; DE connecting darksector's timeline to warframe (1999 seems close enough and I'm hyped), getting the option to side WITH wally, and more lore for the frames themselves (especially for older ones without lore, and codex paragraphs would be fine imo). I like that DE is making a whole update/quest focused on TMITW, but I really hope they don't write him into being "just another villain". It would be more interesting (and logical given the spinny dial thing already seems to tie into his favor, at least based on that Jung philosophy vid you did a while ago) to have it be more of a player choice kind of thing. Either way, I imagine we'll get plenty of lore in the new update to pore over.
Your theory’s always make me think deeper on warframe s world and characters keep up the great work:) you really highlight how many things are possible in this universe and how many the community hasn’t really explored yet
The intro was cool asf I kinda want to watch signs now While watching the video i stopped playing wf and i was just listening. The sign - miracle part really struck me Perfectly set the Halloween mood Just great!
I wanted to make sure I didn't butcher that scene but if you enjoyed it I'll just assume I didn't and if anyone says it sucks... I'm gonna tell them you said it didn't so thank you in advance!!!
Battle not with monsters, Lest ye become a monster, And if you gaze into the abyss, The abyss gazes also into you. Definitely a treat for Halloween, superb video. Keep up the good work, my man. (Edited it because I found the exact quote.)
Great video! Btw i dont know if anybody noticed but in the scene where Entrati goes down the stairs, a second before he starts smiling the clock hits 12:00. I can't figure out if there is a meaning behind it but maybe you could make something of it.
I guarantee there will be with that... It makes me feel like time travel is gonna play a part, maybe that's a moment we need to be there for as a tenno... tough to say, but, it will be significant. Well unless it's a Y2K easter egg, but ASIDE from that... yes.
So if I remember my Lovecraft correctly, R'ylehian isn't supposed to be pronouncable by humans and therefore both pronounciations of Cthulhu is correct (and wrong). I remember old audiobooks saying "Clulu" but that seems to have lost in favor of "Khtulu" in modern pop culture.
There is a really good chance that just how operator was freed by the drifter from the paradox. The twin exists through a paradox until we sediment him in reality. And he is the version of us that does ally with wally fully. The one who became indifferent.
The void looks back at you is a sort of nonsense phrase that makes you think about the impossibility of looking at a void. What you in fact look at is a symbolic representation of the void, which in truth never represents the void. The fear here is that science will become so potent that it will create such a good symbolic representation of "the void" that it is essentially the same thing as "the void" but in a form which we can look at. This seems like it will never happen in reality.
I enjoyed the video quite a bit. I did have a couple observations, though. tMitW is not indifferent to the Tenno. It is in fact clearly, distinctly interested as evidenced by its incessant drop-ins and interactions. Back to the ant metaphor, it would be like one of us visiting a specific ant hill every day and finding a specific ant and sometimes...for no particular reason...watching it. I'm not personally afraid of indifference. It means that I don't rely on being saved, and I don't worry about being arbitrarily hindered.
So, odd thing i noticed about the interaction with "hey kiddo" moments and the color filters you can apply to enemies and allies. In my case, the enemies are outlined red and allies are blue. What this has to do with Wally interactions, is that your doppelganger shows up highlighted in ally color highlights. Dunno if this is a glitch, or purposeful. It's interesting though.
I have just yesterday night watched "The Empty Man" (based on the BOOM! comic), and there's some truly striking similarities in terms of themes. Especially Nietzche's quote, as well as the parallel between the whole "law of attraction" and the game's conceptual embodiment.
Oh yeah…. Crazy thing is, I’m not even sure the people making the media even know the why of how it works they just know it works, not realizing they are tapping into the human psyche. Crazy stuff in the end.
@15:44 This got me thinking. With all the players that this game has and the choices that we have made for the light, twilight or dark, I wonder, if DE is looking at this collective data (aka background metadata) and molding the story around these results. Would the NEW WAR have been different if all players made a choice towards the Dark? Would the Duviri Paradox be more focused on Pleasure, and Peace (and not Anger or Sorrow) if all players chose the light? If true, It is an interesting concept for game development, allowing the player to adjust the game's story progression through their collective decisions over many years. A matter of not what they wanted... but the choice we made before.
Chains of harrow is one of my fav quests bcs of how creepy it is, even if I went mom mode to protect Rell and absolutely just ignored most jumpscares bcs of how focused i was trying to find him XD
Honestly toward Albreight and the man in the wall all I feel is… indifferent, I see them not as good not as evil simply another force in their reality no less than I see myself as simply being an existence as I am
It happene because the game company has not made significant money for the year before the massive layoffs and not meeting the quota despite the successes.
My idea is that the indifference began as it’s namesay indifferent however upon exposure to entrati who feared the unknown it generated the horror he feared the man in the wall
My personal theory is that Wally *IS* the void. The literal personification of it, mimicking whatever it touches because that's simply what it does. It has no form of its own, so it takes yours and twists it. It has no rules of normality, so it takes yours and twists them. It has no personality, so it takes yours, as the player, and twists it. The Man in the Wall is just like us. We're logging onto a game, playing through, doing whatever. The Man in the Wall is something beyond the game, just like us. The world of Warframe is. The Man in the Wall, the Void, simply... Isn't.
I think the usage of the consistent name of "the indifference" may actually hint towards the end goals of the man in the wall. It could very well be that his goal is to capture emotion itself - something that he does not and cannot posess, but merely copy - and either bring it to the void, or bring the void to it. With the whispers in the walls content all implying that he is "breaking through", i think theres merit to the idea that Wally is trying to bring himself or the void to a place where there is emotion... potentially because of conceptual embodiment. We call it the void, a word commonly associated with nothingness and emptiness, after all.. and the conceptual embodiment that emotions result in may yield that. Bringing all manner of emotion to the void means he can endlessly create, destroy, and manipulate. What he would plan to do with said emotions is anyones guess, but every major story event he's been present in has all been centered around an emotion of some kind (the new war, for example, around Ballas' hatred of tenno, Lotus' love of the tenno, etc.) If wally has his hands in all of these conflicts.. does that hint that he is trying to understand emotion itself? Does him "breaking through" into our reality imply that he plans to use these emotions and conceptual embodiment to wage war on all of existence? I dont know, but I think theres something there and felt i had to share.
When ranking up with either the family or holdfasts I remember a statement being said about how before the orikin there were gods. I don’t remember the quote exactly but it has stayed in my mind. I think before the orikin the “indifference” was known and probably had a following before the orikin became the new “gods”. The indifference became upset sense someone made it obsolete. It wanted to get rid of the orikin and it did get rid of it using the tenno and sentients and now it wants to have its following again in some way. I donno it’s just been something I’ve been thinking about occasionally. I feel like the quote came from Quinn more over the family but I’m not sure. It was over a year ago
There's a clever bit of irony in the concept of the Indifference bringing the Tenno into the uncanny valley. There's almost certinly a degree of transhuman dread the humanoid characters feelwhen looking at our warframes... operating, and yet even we have something inhuman yet so mockingly human in its action that we have to fear as well.
Couldn't have said it better myself.
Uncanny valley, as off-putting as it is, has its own charm, hence skibidi toilet being so popular. Man in the wall and the great indifference are charming bc of them being uncanny valley and eldritch in a sense
@@ShikaRoddyWhat looks human about a head in a toilet?
@@anondabomb head
It's not just the Warframes - it's the Tenno themselves. They're commonly referred to as "Void Demons" by others. In my understanding, they're essentially what happened to Curtis in Phantasmagoria 2 - they aren't human (or Orokin), but rather something else which took their places in the Void. What came back wasn't children, but monsters who are convinced they are children.
When you first meet wally on the zariman, there is some interesting dialogue that is easily overlooked. Your tenno had picked up one of those globe lights, you check on the room, you approach wally. Your tenno says "i think you lost your light, here you can have mine" wally says "thanks kiddo, i think i will"
Always thought that had some deeper meaning.
It does!!! Many consider light as… hope or even innocence, that’s what he wants…
@TheDsIEGE *Among Other Things...*
The way I see it that dialogue told us everything it wants think about it, the sacrifice it was happy our minds were confused on if we were still us or umbra, then it was happier as ballas died, but it’s still not able to do something, and I’m guessing it doesn’t know how to fully get out it’s wall form and wants a way to transfer into the perfect corrupted vessel to move freely
But if you go to duviri, it’s new dashing man form hates the drifter, which I assume is because they can switch with the operator and that’s what it wanted to have the ability to do
@@TheDsIEGE it also is shaped like *Oro.*
What did the man in the wall do? Shaped us like... what we are now.
TMITW didn't just take our light, he took our Oro and shaped it as he pleased.
I sure do love existential dread and unknowable eldritch horrors from outside the universe
I think we've only just begun too...
Imo it's not even scary cuz I don't get it
@@beanman9936 Well, ignorance is bliss after all :)
Everything has a place and time... but I dont like eLdRiTcH hOrrOrS getting shoehorned into every major game or game series...
Feels like such a crutch. I feel it's out of place in games like Warcraft 3 or Fallout 3. I'm particularily allergic to tentacled bipedal squidfaces that drop by uninvited into my beloved game franchises.
What if I was a game designer and started shoehorning in furry, brony, weeb culture into Resident Evil series? What Blizzard developers made all the evils in Diablo universe subservient to tentactled squidface? I'd be so void (pun intended) of talent and lazy and it's make no sense.
That being said, I do like the whole HEY KIDDO! /rap-tap-tap /and man-in-the-wall.gif aspect of warframe. Albeit a little too-on-the-nose in the way of how it's told to the player.
@@OlviMasta77 But it's not shoehorned in, like, at all. At least, not in the context of Warframe, because it's been there since before Warframe was even Warframe.
Warframe's spiritual predecessor Dark Sector has in it the horrific and mysterious Technocyte VIrus, and by its name one would assume that it might be completely technological in origin. But that may not be the case, as two notable quotes from the characters Yargo Mensik and Robert Mezner respectively show hints of underlying eldritch horror, with the former making a mention of "the Old Ones" and the latter speaking of "A chorus of drowning voices... Calling out for a savior!"
The Technocyte Virus potentially has origins from the deep ocean that was discovered, researched, reengineered and weaponized by the United States military. It got out and caused two outbreaks - the first one being stopped, and the second one culminating in Robert Mezner going insane and infecting the entire planet with the Virus via a mysterious electric signal in an event known as the Great Plague.
Just a small correction: there is no proper pronunciation of Cthulhu. Which is intentional because the names of those elder beings were not meant for human minds or mouths. Lovecraft wanted his imagined horrors to be truly alien, despite his faults he understood how terrifying the unknown is.
As of the Void.
So the Abyss.
Yaaaay that means i can use the cool sounding pronounciation and not whatever that goofy nerd site made up 😃
hell yeah I can pronounce Cthulhu as skwid·wrd and no one can tell me I'm wrong!
Culoloo forever
Correction of your correction: There is a proper pronunciation, but for a human to actually say. Lovecraft stated that "K'lulu" is the closest approximation our mouths can form.
I think the void is very warplike in that I don't think the indifference existed until Albrecht made contact and fell into it. I think indifference as a being was created the moment Albrecht saw the reflection of himself in the void, the intense fear of the unknowable growing with each moment the thing in front of him starts mimicking, first his looks, then his voice and memories and then it kept growing with the subconscious dread of an uncaring and empty dimension twisting and warping him from the insides. I think he opened Pandora's box and every second he was in the void was just like opening five more Pandora's boxes.
This seems like a very real possibility considering the existence of Duviri. And we've already been shown many times that the void operates on its own rules and logic that defies any rules and logic that we may know in our own world. The main key being that the void defies causality. There doesn't have to be reason why something happens within the void, things can just be.
That would be great. All the messed up things he's done in a pointless cyclical battle that he's responsible for? God, I hope, lol.
The more I see the Man in The Wall act or take part in the story, the more I get the feeling that he’s simply adjusting chess pieces to achieve an inevitable outcome where he gets what he wants. That no matter what we do, it’s inevitable that the Man in the Wall will succeed and that all we’ve been able to achieve was just slowing him down and prolonging the inevitable whether it be Rell keeping TMITW’s “gaze”, beating back the Angels of Zahriman, or the breaking off of the Duviri islands once they showed signs of TMITW influence and invading.
Absolutely. He cares little for us, but... if he can manipulate us, he's going to. I'm guessing we're gonna be the ones to let him in, too.
@@TheDsIEGE I mean just look at his Behavior throughout the story. Entrati may have escaped him and closed the portal to the Void before he could come through… but his finger was able to slip through. A finger that would go on to power Void technology such as the Zariman ten zero which got trapped in the Void which was filled to the brim with children who couldn’t properly control their emotions with minds that were underdeveloped enough to adapt to the Void rather than go mad like the adults. One (or more) of those children was also desperate enough to make a deal with him, becoming a sort of anchor, Vassal, or vessel for TMITW when Entrati didn’t. He undoubtedly lurked in the shadows, gaining influence and possibly power over the Tenno as they unearthed their repressed memories and gained control over their Void powers as a result. The best comparison I can make with this is Bloodborne where Insight allows players to perceive the Eldritch truth and see the Great Ones while simultaneously also making the build up of Frenzy increase. It’s a double sword as while they gain perception and greater power, they now know of the greater horrors that ignorance once hid with madness and frenzy (or in this case, TMITW control) now being more likely. This is all while the presence of the Void increased in the Origin system on account of the Orokin implementing it into nearly every facet of life, meaning part of TMITW is in every piece of tech in the Orogin system on some level. Rell may have been able to hold his attention for a time, but it seems oddly coincidental that Rell’s ability to keep TMITW at bay seems to run out when the Tenno both return and become more capable than ever (obviously ignoring the meta reasoning of quest releases to expand lore). TMITW also goes on to show visions to the Tenno which sometimes impacts their actions or thoughts, or even as far as allowing the creation of certain tools that help push its agenda such as the Paracesis since Ballas only gave the Tenno the blueprint via a vision TMITW caused. Then there’s the how time seemed to work very optimally in Duviri with events or arrivals or departures in Duviri seemingly to be perfectly timed or coordinated to make things happen and change.
It’s like TMITW has a “hand” (pun intended) in everything that goes on that directly or indirectly involves the Void even when we don’t realize it, and it’s all to serve his own ends.
The thing about him being the “great indifference” also gives me a potential idea as to WHY he does what he does. What’s the Void at the end of the day? It’s essentially all possibilities of time in existence all recorded in a separate dimensions where thought controls all. It’s practically infinite knowledge incarnate and even personified. So imagine an entity that embodies this space. That controls it and is as much a part of it as it is a part of them. They essentially are omniscient and omnipotent. They KNOW everything because they can perceive and understand every possibility in existence, including all of past, present, and futures. They are also all powerful because of the nature of the Void being fueled by thought, controlling altering just about anything with physics being regularly changed, and time being “whatever” in its truest sense. The ONLY limitation for such a being is that they’re trapped in the Void and can’t do the same in the physical world. And for such a all powerful and all knowing being, it must be boring to basically know everything there has, is, and will be. There’s no questions to be answered. There’s nothing to achieve. Such a being would find that existence dreadfully boring and it’s not like there was a period where they were ignorant and then gradually gained all this knowledge and power. At best when they came into existence, there was the smallest instant where they were like everyone else. Ignorant, curious, young, and needing to grow. Before they suddenly learn everything and gained everything through the Void. By having the Void leak into the physical world and influencing it, TMITW is essentially finding a way to circumvent his omniscience as well as partake in a challenge. He basically wants excitement and to potentially find something he doesn’t know about. To discover and see what happens as if it’s a show. To do anything to have some form of interest or intrigue rather than the ever prevalent indifference that comes with being all knowing and all powerful
@@wizardwolf1020Wally's ultimate goal being to engineer a means to circumvent his own omniscience, to create an event the results of which he himself cannot predict, out of sheer, overwhelming boredom, would be kinda awesome. Partially in that it kinda mimics us, indifferently massacring millions upon millions simply for the possibility of gaining something to entertain ourselves with.
@@notsae66 I mean let’s compare this to video games. Wally is basically that player that’s broken the game down from top to bottom. Ranging the know how from programming, gameplay, story, development, the people involved, where it was sold, the different achievements, etc. literally everything tied to the game while also being able to play it masterfully without any flaw or mistake with everything that can be unlocked or found, unlocked and found. They essentially reach a point where there’s nothing left to achieve or find nothing new to do with that game. So what do they do? Well ingnoring the obvious solution being to play a different/new game. The player starts making alterations and intentionally altering things just to see if there’s something new to be learned/found or even to get some sense of challenge
so Wally is pulling a Xanatos Gambit, all outcomes eventually lead to victory for him.
The more I watch of TheDsIEGE the more I appreciate Warframe as a whole.
I mean, a lot of his videos are a lot more him than they are Warframe. Like, he does mostly speculation about what things COULD mean, that we have no way of knowing if they DO mean. So uh... I guess that's a compliment to him.
One of the scariest moments I have ever seen put to film was in "The Strangers". At the end of the film this family of killers in animal masks slaughters a woman's husband in front of her and makes her watch. When she screams, "Why?! Why are you doing this?!" one of the family members pulls up her mask to reveal that she is just a teenage girl and says with a smile, "Because we can." It's the horror of an enemy that has no deeper motivation, that can't be reasoned, bribed or bargained with. In truth it's probably the same dread a Corpus or Grineer feels when they see a Warframe.
I mean to be fair, the corpus and grineer we fight aren't like civilians, they're the soldiers of two oppressive system-wide establishments. We the player might be doing it for fun, but we're an outside factor from the story.
@@SissypheanCatboy I don't know about that, we kill hundreds of their ranks without a second thought, even after an extermination mission, they try to fleed and we just chase them down... And one important note, we are the ones attacking them, even if they are a piece of garbage, they still try to fight for their lives and their faction, we don't... We do it because we can do it, Orokin too, the Tenno kill them because they simply can and at the very beginning, the story as is developed, sometimes feels like we shouldn't listen to the Lotus.
There is a ton of the indifference
@@Voldrim359 see but here's the issue, chief. The tenno are not a big, powerful empire. They are a small bunch of rebels, and in-universe you are one of the very few tenno who actually have a warframe. The tenno can't be expected to fight fair, because if they did they'd be as irrelevant and powerless as the honor-fetishizing Arbiters of Hexus.
@@Voldrim359 i mean why would you feel remorse to the grineer and corpus? Theyre both trying to screw every civilian in the system either by killing, torturing, transforming, experimenting and god knows what else theyve done. The way i see it the tenno are like an immune system trying to keep everything in order
The quote is "because you were home" and the girl doesn't remove her mask when saying it.
I think the Man In The Wall manifests as our Warframe powers. Literally destroying countless lives every time we start a mission. We know Transference and our Warframe abilities are only possible via "void magic." It's not a stretch to think Man plays an active hand in this.
Eldritch horrors are my favorite kind of terror. Just an existential dread that normal horror can't scratch
Agreed
For real. Horror movies and jumpscares just piss me off, BUT a good eldritch horror story? That shit's gonna keep me up at night.
The editing, the transitions, chills man, literal chills. Great job man.
Hey, thank you! I needed to get this one right in order to make you all feel something, that was the point of the vid!!!
@@TheDsIEGE It was definitely the worst idea to watch this before sleep
@@wayneyang7920 yeah same im watching this at 11 30 in the night
bro just showed up during the final battle of our current storyline with such power that the main boss and the chapion defeating him could basically not even stand, said some words and left. he's more powerful than everything we've seen so far
That's what I think too.
I feel like The Indifference is less like it’s always watching us as more like it’s constantly aware of us. Kinda like the interactions with the main antagonist of system shock and the player, we’re practically a little insect crawling around under The Indifference’s skin. Since they’re potentially the conscious of the void itself that’s a reality atop our own. And at anytime can crush us into nothingness, especially due to our deal with them.
In the story of warframe we’re not the equivalent of the tau or the imperium of man, not even the eldar, orks or the tyrannids being the sentient’s roll to play. But the mindless necron foot soldier, we might be funny if you’re one of us or allied to us - but to others were a terrifying, ancient war machine that’s nearly impossible to kill with our basic weapons being insanely powerful and kill anything in our way without ever saying a word. And at anytime the one who stands above us can do as he pleases with us. Saying were good or evil kinda loses its meaning, when were the chosen one of a god who just couldn’t care.
Are we even alive anymore or just the living idea of ourselves from before the deal - like the difter is to dominus thrax?
In other words, Were the jrpg puppet dictator of a dark god. Frown aside once formalities are no longer needed to start the final boss.
🤯 excellent
Ah yes, my favorite eldritch horror deity, Calulu
Be Prepared. Also... Happy Halloween KiDdO...
You said something to the effect of "what if he's always there..." and you happen to be right. I recently paused as soon as I got back to my orbiter and went into decoration. On my way back from the other side of the ship suddenly I notice Wally hiding frozen behind a corner, leaning around and peeking from behind the wall (from right next to the railjack entrance). No "hey kiddo" or anything, just creeping around the ship silently watching. Happy Halloween indeed!
Happy Halloween to you too.:D
And also nice snipes at the Bungie for cutting loose a whole heap of their staff out of the blue, what a horrific thing for them to do during the holiday season.
@@MB-sq7ynit’s disgusting. All while Pete parsons tries to play good guy. Totally pathetic.
I am glad you are talking in depth about indifference. It is something I struggle with on a daily basis.
Don’t lose your light my friend. It’s all we have. Don’t forget that indifference is an illusion. Things always matter, that’s just how it is and someone, maybe someone you don’t even realize but someone probably relies on yours. Maybe more than one person. Keeping your light inspires others to do the same. Whatever you do, NEVER GIVE UP, NEVER GIVE IN. Life is what you make of it.
@@TheDsIEGEwell said
@@TheDsIEGE Thanks man.
That Jumpscare was uncalled for but it did help with the theory.
It was purely for science I promise you.
Wicked transition at 1:10
Wow!!! Thank you, I very much appreciate that!
Nah the transition from rell to the great indifference is built different
I don't want to even consider why the human brain has a mechanism to recognize 'almost people' and why the response to that is discomfort/fear
Why did we evolve to be afraid of thing that hadn't existed until the modern age 😢
The Man in the wall could be like a kid scorching ants with a magnifying glass. Also one thing that originally made me fall for Warframe is the fact that it is a looter shooter that on first glance doesn't look like it has anything deep to it. But when you take the time to dive into it, you realize that what looked like just a looter shooter has so much more depth than some rpg games.
Perfectly said
I get such joy when you release new videos, thank you for all the effort you put forth in your content, I appreciate you greatly!
I appreciate you checking the video out!!!
No one pronounces "Cthulhu" correctly. No human could.
In Spanish there is an old saying that says: "La indiferencia mata" (Indifference kills)
Great Video, loving the questions your bring to the table. Cosmic Horror in my scifi game? why yes please.
You just can't beat it. Warframe's story is doing wonderful things right now, hoping they continue!
The way you edited that intro was utterly incredible. Wild to me that harrow's quest was so long ago now, and the theming for the man in the wall is still so consistent and horrifying.
wally disappears when you pan away, but if you notice he does not disappear if your warframe is facing away but the camera is not. Hes staring through the fourth wall.
(okay I am sure the script that decides to follow him is based on the camera not the character but still fun to think on)
that would make a lot of sense to maybe be a thing that isn't just for game reasons
Im pretty sure he no longer does that. Right when chains of harrow was released, he used to act like that. But nowadays (in my experience) his appearnce has a fixed timer.
Nah I think you nailed it. It feels completely intentional, and I think that’s what makes truly excellent video game horror: they want YOU to know that this entity sees you sitting at your desk, but they will never acknowledge it right out
@@fitzviandraduivenab2790just played through New War and can confirm he doesn’t disappear until he’s off-screen
This channel has been something I wanted for Warframe for a long time. Fantastic content 👍
I’m glad you’re enjoying it!!!
Damn, the editing was well done. If you wanted to give a person chills, you succeeded.
So I have a theory that The Man in the Wall is actually being locked in the void, similar to how we Tenno can either have only the operator or the drifter outside (hinted at by the cutscene during the New War, where time is up and we have to choose.) We offer our light to him during the handshake allowing him a wider window to see into our dimension. The reason he wanted us was so that he was not stuck in a dimension of nothing but that it could now take on a form from the light we shared, hence Duviri Plains. I believe Albrecht's maiden voyage into the void was the first time the void had taken a shape and the first emotion that was pushed out was the fear he felt both from his potential failure but also when someone he didn't know told him "Little Bengal", something only he knew. I believe we will get a more definitive answer during Whispers in the Wall but that more questions will be raised, only to be answered more during 1999. I feel that Wallie might not be a final boss, more like an indifferent guide in the land in-between, the void. I also have a theory that the new faction Murmurs will be the remnants of what the Sentients left behind, their inability to reproduce stripped from them, the unborn, The Murmurs of what could have been. Just a few of the thoughts I have rumbling in my brain. Appreciate the fun and thought provoking videos as always TheDsIEGE!
I love that theory about the Murmers
Rell's whole deal was keeping Wally at bay, but after subsequently killing him, he remained in his Warframe, and the mantle of keeping Wally in the void falls unto us.
I've always wondered how he came across a warframe...
The void tongue in the beginning of the video getting cut off by a Daytona ad had me rolling
The way i'm not unsettled at all i just get excited LOL guess my wires are crossed
Outside of the Man In The Wall, the only character in video games this strange, powerful and creepy is the G-Man from Half-Life.
@4:47 That's GOTTA be a violation!
Had to be said. Horror comes in many forms…. That might be the scariest thing for a great many people over the past few days.
This shines more than bright, especially the last quote and perspective not just through game but individual levels. Alchemy and hermeticism in consciousness and subconscious. I've had powerful dreams of fear and darkness.... But all comes down to avenues.. what path will you take? A Ryma path or an ironic but blind sided path. We are all part of a collective but in which degree does one weigh heavier through individual thought processes. Which makes me think of the Bible of you are your own temple. But I digress. There's far more than what meets the eye(s). Thus for, was it I who is wrong, or was it the other.....
Perfectly put. You get it!
Picked up on the naming of "Indifference", as that really is the core of cosmic horror - a seemingly all-powerful, unknowable force so grand and imposing, and yet completely _indifferent_ to that which it threatens. The idea that there's something _so_ much bigger than us, that it doesn't even bat an eye at the thought of extinguishing our existence.
Alt hypothesis: A being who has never had to interact with things suddenly does and so takes the only form it knows, you. The first reaction everyone has is fear so it associates itself with such as does our subconscious but it wants to interact hence exaggerated smile and jump scares but no grotesque or threatening horrors. So all in all outer dimensional space daddy in the wall knows nothing about interactions and morality but from us and the sociopath albrecht is just trying to interact with this new intriguing material universe.
"Just behind the camera"? I thought he was the camera.
That's horrifying
I watched a video yesterday about how someone explained that cosmic horror is scary to a lot of people because there's this huge entity that could kill you in the blink of eye.
However I made a comment where I mentioned the Man In The Wall and how it's scary because it doesn't kill you. It plays with its victims. Bending their reality and memories to his will. It even does the opposite where it keeps his victims alive.
And that's what makes him scary to me.
The idea of being killed in an instant by something larger than me doesn't scare me. Being small doesn't scare me either. Idk you could die in an instant in your day to day life too. You could simply cross the street, not paying attention and get hit by a bus. And the idea of being small and insignificant isn't new to me either. Being significant to the people that matter to myself is much more important than how big I am in the universe or my own planet.
But the idea that this bug cosmic force that can destroy everything doesn't do that, but instead just bends and twists everything you've ever known, and then keeping you alive, forcing you to be its toy. While you can never escape it, because it's everywhere, it watches you everything and shows and disappears as it pleases and no one knows why it does this. That is scary to me.
It's amazing how early many concepts for The Man In The Wall were introduced or at least hinted at.
The story and ideas DE are presenting in Warframe are great and presented in a unique way.
Thanks for making me look and listen more closely :D
Warframes story is shockingly deep, way more than most would think, it’s just buried, but if you’re willing to dig, the rewards are worth it.
Ok, kinda unrelated to the idea of the video, but the scene at 8:20 where erra says "dont be afraid" reminded me of that one thing in the bible where everytime an angel appeared they said that, and i got a big ass goosebump from that
Man you make me love Warframe so much more with your videos and im already obsessed with it lol!
This game really goes hard if you pay attention. There’s a ton of deep concepts baked into the lore. I’ll keep trying to dig and find the good stuff for you all.
@TheDsIEGE Thank you, and keep up the work!
I went to Tennocon, and they are amazing people to meet!
Something i was thinking while watching the video is the color of indifference, grey, no feeling's, just grey, at that got my thinking of the Duviri paradox Questline at the beginning the color is grey, as the drifter is full of apathy. However, this start to changes when The drifter meets Teshin and continues with the adventure, in the end Duviri is full of colors as The Drifter is full of feeling's.
When we make the deal with Wally, we exchange void powers for our light, or that's what he told us, as Quin told we have our own light that reflets two shadows, one represents us and the other Wally. But what we decide to do with the second shadow could seal our fate, do we hate that shadow and make our light shine brighter so there's only one, do we embrace this shadow and turn off our light so we can become one, or we find another way one that keeps our light and the other shadow controlling the indifferences and the feeling's.
One path is just light an nothing more, feelings but not thinking, but only our feelings, egocentrism
The other one rational darkness, indifferent to our own feelings, and indifferent to other people feelings, apathy
And multiple paths between the dark and light, guided by feelings but measured with rationality, humanity
The decision of the path that we follow is in our hands.
you put into words an idea I was trying to figure out for so long now. This is how the alignment in Warframe ties into the themes of the game, it was right there and i just didn't see it!
The all feelings path is indifferent to everyone else's thoughts and feelings and beliefs, while all rational is indifferent to any mutable feelings it comes into contact with. Both the light and the dark, at their most extreme, are indifferent, and thus no better than the Indifference. But taking the paths in the middle leads us to be more affected by others, we care more the closer we get to the center.
The alignment isn't about being good, not directly, it's about finding a place between two very different kinds of Indifference.
Thanks for figuring it out
(a brief aside, I believe the center paths are best represented by eclipses, as an eclipse has both blinding light and suffocating darkness, in some ways a clash between the two, in others a combination. Also, eclipses are caused by the two cosmic bodies affecting how light is cast, thus the eclipse effect is the direct result of multiple interactions occuring, unlike a grey void.)
I find it so cool that DE decided to make our characters' backstory basically that we made a deal with a demon
13:46 i got jumpscared and then i got a ad lol
Thanks, UA-cam, lol!
I made enormous mistake to do chains of harrow at midnight on Friday the 13th in middle of a thunderstorm. I totally set myself up to be physiologically scared
You have done it. You are my favorite Warframe creator🤘🏽
Thank you!!! That means a lot to hear... or well see in this case but you get the picture... :)
Lotus: *says anything"
Me: I dunno, Mom, I just shoot stuff. Just point me at a target, m'kay?
I feel like the more we learn about him the stronger he gets-
Or... maybe the stronger we get the stronger he gets. Either way...
@@TheDsIEGEEither way we're most likely screwed 😂
Honestly this just makes me appreciate Chains of Harrow a lot more.
Rell was not an outcast.
He was the only one who knew what we are facing.
Amazing video chap
Who's to say he's running around using your likeness? He's an otherworldly being, I'd be willing to bet that what you see isn't the same as what other simultaneous witnesses would see.
God, remember when wally was just a funny jumpscare?
A note on the pronunciation: lovecraft has stated that the pronunciation is unimportant due Cthulhu being ancient and bore manny names
Good point, I figured I'd try to cover my bases....
Not only that, but the word "C'thulhu" is only a rough approximation, since human vocal chords can't replicate the noises that make up the language his name is in, since it's spoken by aliens
Still though I've never heard it called "kalooloo", that's just nonsense
I note the extreme points of the compass changes you're personality in the way lines are delivered. the white has an element of being driven by emotion. while the all black has a similar shade of indifference in it
Teshin actually describes one of them during the new war right before Erra kills him. Was that his choices revealed?
Another interesting video! I'd never thought about the whole fear factor behind 'indifference' as a concept. Top 3 lore hopes for me; DE connecting darksector's timeline to warframe (1999 seems close enough and I'm hyped), getting the option to side WITH wally, and more lore for the frames themselves (especially for older ones without lore, and codex paragraphs would be fine imo).
I like that DE is making a whole update/quest focused on TMITW, but I really hope they don't write him into being "just another villain". It would be more interesting (and logical given the spinny dial thing already seems to tie into his favor, at least based on that Jung philosophy vid you did a while ago) to have it be more of a player choice kind of thing. Either way, I imagine we'll get plenty of lore in the new update to pore over.
Because of how the question ends I think the indifference and the man in the wall might be different entities
Your theory’s always make me think deeper on warframe s world and characters keep up the great work:) you really highlight how many things are possible in this universe and how many the community hasn’t really explored yet
I'm glad you enjoyed it!!!!
this channel is underrated asf. nice voice and tone with good writing I love it
Thank you!!! i appreciate that!
That rap tap tap edit...😨
The intro was cool asf
I kinda want to watch signs now
While watching the video i stopped playing wf and i was just listening. The sign - miracle part really struck me
Perfectly set the Halloween mood
Just great!
I wanted to make sure I didn't butcher that scene but if you enjoyed it I'll just assume I didn't and if anyone says it sucks... I'm gonna tell them you said it didn't so thank you in advance!!!
DE should just hire this guy already
I agree!
Yep exactly 😮😊
A Double Walker sounds quite ominous
I love how many people are scared of the man in the wall meanwhile he just a homie to me
I mean... I love him too, the problem is... what if he's playing us?
@@TheDsIEGE gather all the Tenno to jump him (this is satire)
Battle not with monsters,
Lest ye become a monster,
And if you gaze into the abyss,
The abyss gazes also into you.
Definitely a treat for Halloween, superb video. Keep up the good work, my man. (Edited it because I found the exact quote.)
Thank you, I’m glad you enjoyed it and happy Halloween!
Spooky man. The idea that were on our own and infinitesimally small is scary. I hope we all have some guardian angle watching out for all of us.
I believe we do.
it would be cool being able to choose your side: the man in the wall or everything you stood for untill now.
Great video!
Btw i dont know if anybody noticed but in the scene where Entrati goes down the stairs, a second before he starts smiling the clock hits 12:00. I can't figure out if there is a meaning behind it but maybe you could make something of it.
I guarantee there will be with that... It makes me feel like time travel is gonna play a part, maybe that's a moment we need to be there for as a tenno... tough to say, but, it will be significant. Well unless it's a Y2K easter egg, but ASIDE from that... yes.
@@TheDsIEGEA clock hitting midnight is used as the symbol for the Doomsday clock
I do hope they add more horror type quests like chains of harrow to the game. DE does a great job at making creepy and uneasy environments.
Watching this while thunder stroked multiple times and your jump scares i was was watching a horror movie why DsIEGE . nice work as always .
So if I remember my Lovecraft correctly, R'ylehian isn't supposed to be pronouncable by humans and therefore both pronounciations of Cthulhu is correct (and wrong).
I remember old audiobooks saying "Clulu" but that seems to have lost in favor of "Khtulu" in modern pop culture.
There is a really good chance that just how operator was freed by the drifter from the paradox. The twin exists through a paradox until we sediment him in reality. And he is the version of us that does ally with wally fully. The one who became indifferent.
The void looks back at you is a sort of nonsense phrase that makes you think about the impossibility of looking at a void. What you in fact look at is a symbolic representation of the void, which in truth never represents the void. The fear here is that science will become so potent that it will create such a good symbolic representation of "the void" that it is essentially the same thing as "the void" but in a form which we can look at. This seems like it will never happen in reality.
The editing in the beginning was masterful!
Thank you!!!
Ok I will replay Chains of Harrow right now... good video!
Nice!!!! Happy Halloween!
Whats the music that plays throughout the video? Perfect choice, set the tone absolutely perfectly.
Taking the lunch break just to listen looking forward to it
I hope you enjoyed it!
Dude it’s good to see you back in action!! Always watched your weekly Xur videos for Destiny 1!!! I check back every couple of months
Hey good to see you!!!! Yep, I'm back but... doing warframe now!
@@TheDsIEGE glad it’s working out for you man! Fun times
That intro rap tap tap transition was the coolest thing ever
Thank you!!! This was a really fun video to make!
I enjoyed the video quite a bit. I did have a couple observations, though.
tMitW is not indifferent to the Tenno. It is in fact clearly, distinctly interested as evidenced by its incessant drop-ins and interactions.
Back to the ant metaphor, it would be like one of us visiting a specific ant hill every day and finding a specific ant and sometimes...for no particular reason...watching it.
I'm not personally afraid of indifference. It means that I don't rely on being saved, and I don't worry about being arbitrarily hindered.
So, odd thing i noticed about the interaction with "hey kiddo" moments and the color filters you can apply to enemies and allies. In my case, the enemies are outlined red and allies are blue. What this has to do with Wally interactions, is that your doppelganger shows up highlighted in ally color highlights. Dunno if this is a glitch, or purposeful. It's interesting though.
That's an interesting little detail... Hmmm... I'll take a look into that, thank you!!
I have just yesterday night watched "The Empty Man" (based on the BOOM! comic), and there's some truly striking similarities in terms of themes. Especially Nietzche's quote, as well as the parallel between the whole "law of attraction" and the game's conceptual embodiment.
Oh yeah…. Crazy thing is, I’m not even sure the people making the media even know the why of how it works they just know it works, not realizing they are tapping into the human psyche. Crazy stuff in the end.
@15:44 This got me thinking. With all the players that this game has and the choices that we have made for the light, twilight or dark, I wonder, if DE is looking at this collective data (aka background metadata) and molding the story around these results. Would the NEW WAR have been different if all players made a choice towards the Dark? Would the Duviri Paradox be more focused on Pleasure, and Peace (and not Anger or Sorrow) if all players chose the light?
If true, It is an interesting concept for game development, allowing the player to adjust the game's story progression through their collective decisions over many years. A matter of not what they wanted... but the choice we made before.
doubt it, the creative themes are centric to the content first before something cosmetic like the yin yang choice dial thing.
Chains of harrow is one of my fav quests bcs of how creepy it is, even if I went mom mode to protect Rell and absolutely just ignored most jumpscares bcs of how focused i was trying to find him XD
HE’S IN THE GODDAM WALL!!!!!!!
LOLOL
Honestly toward Albreight and the man in the wall all I feel is… indifferent, I see them not as good not as evil simply another force in their reality no less than I see myself as simply being an existence as I am
the shots fired at Bungie was worth a sub XD
Thank you! And I’m definitely pissed at that game. That whole situation is just terrible.
It happene because the game company has not made significant money for the year before the massive layoffs and not meeting the quota despite the successes.
The lore is awesome so far
Rap tap tap
Spooky scary void children, send shivers down my spine
My idea is that the indifference began as it’s namesay indifferent however upon exposure to entrati who feared the unknown it generated the horror he feared the man in the wall
This channel is warframe lore done right
I try!!! Gotta be entertaining too, right?
Believe it or not, Wally once vanished the moment I blinked, i was so terrified i felt like my heart was about to explode
Yeah, he's been guilty of that with me too... Sneaky little bastard lol
damn this video aged really well
My personal theory is that Wally *IS* the void. The literal personification of it, mimicking whatever it touches because that's simply what it does. It has no form of its own, so it takes yours and twists it. It has no rules of normality, so it takes yours and twists them. It has no personality, so it takes yours, as the player, and twists it.
The Man in the Wall is just like us. We're logging onto a game, playing through, doing whatever. The Man in the Wall is something beyond the game, just like us.
The world of Warframe is. The Man in the Wall, the Void, simply... Isn't.
This is correct if you ask me as well.
I havent even got through the whole video got damn what a hell of a way to do a intro
Hey, I'm glad you enjoyed it!!!
you might enjoy Albert Hoffmans "my problem child LSD"
I’ll check it out!!!!
Even if Lovecraft crawled out of the grave and recorded it himself, Clue-loo is never gonna stick.
I think the usage of the consistent name of "the indifference" may actually hint towards the end goals of the man in the wall.
It could very well be that his goal is to capture emotion itself - something that he does not and cannot posess, but merely copy - and either bring it to the void, or bring the void to it.
With the whispers in the walls content all implying that he is "breaking through", i think theres merit to the idea that Wally is trying to bring himself or the void to a place where there is emotion... potentially because of conceptual embodiment. We call it the void, a word commonly associated with nothingness and emptiness, after all.. and the conceptual embodiment that emotions result in may yield that. Bringing all manner of emotion to the void means he can endlessly create, destroy, and manipulate.
What he would plan to do with said emotions is anyones guess, but every major story event he's been present in has all been centered around an emotion of some kind (the new war, for example, around Ballas' hatred of tenno, Lotus' love of the tenno, etc.) If wally has his hands in all of these conflicts.. does that hint that he is trying to understand emotion itself? Does him "breaking through" into our reality imply that he plans to use these emotions and conceptual embodiment to wage war on all of existence? I dont know, but I think theres something there and felt i had to share.
When ranking up with either the family or holdfasts I remember a statement being said about how before the orikin there were gods. I don’t remember the quote exactly but it has stayed in my mind. I think before the orikin the “indifference” was known and probably had a following before the orikin became the new “gods”. The indifference became upset sense someone made it obsolete. It wanted to get rid of the orikin and it did get rid of it using the tenno and sentients and now it wants to have its following again in some way.
I donno it’s just been something I’ve been thinking about occasionally.
I feel like the quote came from Quinn more over the family but I’m not sure. It was over a year ago