I never considered Wally to be a father figure to the Tenno until you brought it up but I can totally see it now. The way he's the reason we even exist the way we do, him calling us 'kiddo', etc. I always saw him as this evil entity but maybe it's not so cut and dry considering he's an eldritch being with motivations beyond our understanding. God the way this game has shifted towards a more cosmic horror tone is so exciting.
Granted him calling us kiddo is most likely him teasing us in a way since that's something our Tenno's actual father said to him according to the War Within. Not to mention when Albrecht Entrati interacted with Wally, he called him "Little Bengal" which was a nickname his mother gave to him years ago.
@@godzelda123 Considering the analogy to a body and cells Siege here used, the void, or also stated, the potential consciousness of the universe, wouldn't understand or know of it's own make up, the little insignificant things it's made of, clearly not on an emotional level as it seems to struggle with emotions. While some might see the way the entity refers to us as Kiddo or Albrecht as Lil bangal as mocking. I imagine that the entity simply uses those nicknames cause the words are familiar to us, are comforting coming from a parental figure, which in a way, the entity is. It could call us all sorts of things, insignificant, ignorant, pitiful, but it chooses words that would, spoken by those familiar to us, would be comforting or endearing.
@@Ruleradminius Has shifted? Past tense? Ha ha, maybe it's the Rell in me, but my autistic butt has been watching this plot unfold the whole time. Rap. Tap. Tap. It was never a ghost story. Hmmm, Ghost Story is a good name for a Zaw. Theater of Mind is a good name Kitgun. Or perhaps it's the other way around?
@@oreiusenderson8861 That's the thing about Indifferent father figures. They often tend to hurt their children while pursuing their own goals. Just ask the Cavia, the Entrati family, the Tenno, or a great many human beings in real life.
"Warning, spoilers ahead for every quest in the game" is pretty much how it be after every new story update, with the cross-referencing they do sometimes.
Hey, good to see you again! Just in case you missed it, there are hidden dialogues from Sythel when you go see her in Duviri; she explains that Wally is the manifestation of the fear Albrecht felt when he entered the Void
I saw that! He basically gave the void a face, and now it's smiling at all of us. Interesting that it took a particular interest in the tenno children though, don't you think?
@@TheDsIEGE Indeed, we still don't really know what his goal is, what could the incarnation of the fear of the Void want from us? But as Reb said, he will be the focus of the upcoming story quests, I'm very excited to see what they'll do
@@TheDsIEGE if daddy wally is the sentience of the multiverse and he's tapped us tenno to protect the balance i guess that makes us realities immune system. confronting and neutralizing any major problems that come up
Speaking of The Man Tn The Wall, it would probably be worth revisiting the impression of him made in Chains of Harrow... and the messages he leaves for you to find in Duviri, as well as Captain Vor's new monologue in The Circuit. I won't speak of those too much as they're very, very new, others can do their research, but Chains of Harrow and Angels of the Zarimen are fair game to me. Rell, and by extension Palladino, refer to The Man in the Wall as 'The Indifference.' They were trying to hold him back, and I get the feeling that Rell probably had a deeper understanding of Wally than our Tenno does. He may not necessarily fall upon our moral framework enough to be considered 'malevolent', but that doesn't necessarily mean that he will be good for us in the long run, either. It is also worth noting that... whilst we were empowered by the Void and have a unique relationship, our power has been made our own, as suggested by Quinn in Angels of the Zariman. "Oh, drew power but from a very different source. ... I wonder, do you even know just how brightly you shine?" The Holdfasts also describe the Reliquary, the other big source of Void influence -- Wally's Finger -- as _"bleak."_
Oh absolutely, I think the last three quests force us to call into question everything we know, but... I do think a playthrough of all the quests he touches is in order. I will say, if the man in the wall is born of Entrati's "darkness", so to speak, having to balance that with our "light" seems pretty par for the course, if you ask me.
Another line worth mentioning regarding this "light". When the tenno first met Wally, they asked "Hey, lost your light? Here you can have mine". The thing Wally wants from the deal is definitely this "light".
Welcome back! Hope this isn't the last we see of you! And by the Void, it never occurred to me that it was the Man in the Wall that closed the portal. Not the Lotus. My mind was blown by this theory, and I can't wait to find out what you uncover next!
Oh no... this is only the beginning. I've got a lot to discuss. There are a few things I've noticed that I haven't really seen mention of, so... I'll do it!
Eternalism is very similar to the many worlds interpretation, however it functionally only explains how time works. The many worlds interpretation implies that there are an infinite number of universes, with each possible outcome of a situation being true in a different universe. Schrodingers cat, for example, exists superimposed between life and death, and would therefore be definitively dead on one universe, and alive in another and it is only decided which universe that is once you open the box. The best way to describe this is branching paths; each decision you make presents with you a set of options, and each option exists as the one you chose in a different universe. Multiple universe, multiple realities. Most people are sort of familiar with this concept. On the other hand, eternalism argues that all time is equally real. The past is real, the present is real, and all possible futures are real. The best way to describe this is to compare it to linear time. If time only moves forwards, never back, and you intersected time as an external observer, you would only ever see the current snapshot of events that are happening at the present. Unlike linear time, eternalism time is like a sphere where the center is the present, and where ever you look, thats the future and the past is always behind you. Because the past is equally real, the future loops back into itself as you move forward through time. However, as an external observer, if you were to intersect time you wouldnt just see the singular present, you would observe every iteration of the present that exists within the various axis of the sphere. There isnt an infinite number of universes, rather, there is an infinite number of slightly varied timelines that only exist if you observe them from a different perspective. So in the many worlds interpretation, the Drifter ISNT you. They are identical to you in many ways, but otherwise, they are a wholly distinct and seperate from you. They have their own timeline, their own universe, their own existence. In eternalism, however, the drifter is inexorably you. They ARE you, identical to you in all but one aspect; they exist as a different perspective of you. They exist in the same timeline as you, just a different slice of it. Case in point, the new duviri paradox opening literally ends with you escaping from Vor AS the operator, as Teshin says "Be warned. You will not be as you are NOW, but as you were THEN.". I dont think that our power comes from being quantumly entangled, or anything like that. I think that the void is this kind of... space, that exists between all perspectives of time. When we made the deal with Wally, he anchored part of our being INSIDE the void, forever a part of its intangible, malleable existance. When we die we return outside of time, inside the void until our essence reforms and we materialize back into real space-time. Our powers are tied to the malleable nature of the void, its ability to respond and structure itself according to ones thoughts and feelings. We are this being that links both worlds together. Even the ghost of zariman say that our light is different than the song of the void, which means that whatever Wally did, had the unintended consequence of fundamentally altering how we utilize the void. Or this was Wally's plan all along and he needed us to be different, to be both void and real. After all, its our death at the hands of Ballas that manifested the Drifter into our perspective of time. And to continue off of that point, I think that our operator manifested the drifter back in time as a survival mechanism by sending their past self the lotus's hand, giving their alternate perspective the means for which to rescue them from the void but only to the past self of theirs that was stuck in the void to begin with. Kinda like a bootstraps or grandfathers paradox. The duviri paradox. I think that Wally made us like him. I think that whatever he is, we are as well. A being that can observe and interact with different perspectives of time by manipulating the void itself. I could be wrong, I made this original theory before duviri but duviri is making it VERY likely to be the case.
It's nice to see someone else with a good grip on Eternalism. However, I highly doubt that in the Drifter's perspective of linear time, that they went from the End of Duviri to Vor's Prize. If this was the case, they never would have shown up in the New War. Teshin's words likely meant that the Drifter would escape as they were, before they were trapped in Duviri, but after they spent several years surviving on the Zariman. No longer having Teshin's swords and the Lotus's hand. The biggest flaw with this however, is how the Drifter then got their hands on the Sirocco.
@Karuiko it's the most complicated theoretical philosophy I know. It's also really the ONLY philosophy I have a half decent understanding of. I dont know if my idea is really the case. That's the problem with time travel and paradoxes, it's so easy to get lost in them. Fundamentally, I see two closed loops. The primary loop, which ends with the drifter assisting us in saving the lotus. And the secondary loop, where the drifter gets their ability to use transference and the Sirocco and leaves the paradox to become us. When you start with the drifter, Ordis asks you why you lost your powers and the drifter responds that it's not that they did it's more like they haven't gotten them yet. Which, personally, I think reinforces the idea that the drifter escaping duviri with the hand is the starting loop that culminates in the new war loop. Eternalism technically would allow the past to be happening at the same time as the future, provided the right perspective. It even allows the past to happen ahead of the future. Eternalism is cool but it does make my head hurt
I don't quite understand what you're trying to say with "loops", as from the perspective within a singular world line, time moves normally and only loops within Duviri. Eternalism is a lot easier to understand from a 6th dimensional view. Something happening at the "same time" across different world lines(a path in 4th dimension) would all be intersected by a line across the 5th dimension, such as the Tenno being stabbed by Ballas. In your branching sphere/circle example, this would be the equivalent of adding another circle with the radius of said event. It would intersect each branching path at the same moment in "time". In most cases, these snapshots will be similar. At least in some way, as they all originated from the same point.
@@Karuiko Ive written this like 4 times and I keep losing it because of my adhd clicking on different videos. The loops thing was a narrative reference not a time one. Specifically speaking, that duviri is its own loop, and new war is its own. However, they are connected. Drifter getting Natah's hand and sirocco in duviri, Drifter having sirocco but NOT natahs hand in new war, the table set for two in both, the inversion of the mirror mechanic in both, Teshin dying in new war and being a void revenant in duviri (also, appearing around the same time that Albreicht/doppleganger does, which happens ages before even the first events of warframe do). Ect ect. Not to mention all the mirror symbology. Its hard not to imagine the events of the game as some kind of funhouse mirror reflecting alernative time perspectives to us. The alternative warframe log in screen? Chef's kiss. I meant that eternalism was complex because as a concept it allows for an infinitely complex perspective of things. And never mind the morality issues it poses! Chose a parent, dont, it doesnt matter it happens and it doesnt anyways. Because the entire concept of eternalism would technically allow perspectives of time that present events out of order in such a way that it isnt, technically, out of order. From the right perspective within eternalism, a future event could be observed before a past event. Or you could see past, present and future happening simultaneously. No wonder adults in the void go mad.
I'm glad to see you back. Awesome video as usual! Have you found the lore tablets in Duviri yet, because some of them are very interesting and give some more context to the things you were talking about. I think you are spot on with your comments about Albrecht Entrati. One of the tablets asks "What was the ultimate fate of Albrecht Entrati?" with the answer being "That's the question, isn't it, kiddo?". And if you find Sythel hiding in her home, listening to the walls, she will say this line. "The first scholar looked into the Void and he feared it. And his fear took shape. Do you understand? That's how all this started." If this line is to be believed, the Man in The Wall is the voids response to all the emotions Albrecht was feeling when he went into the void. Also, I don't think that interpretation of what The Man In The Wall says is entirely accurate. (One of the devs confirmed we didn't quite have it yet.) I believe there are more requiem words, and possibly even a whole requiem language. Another one of the tablets lends itself to this. "What is 'the Wall'?" and the correct answer is "The Wall of Bone in whiKU NOMA ELU RA KAH, MARA LOHK?". Here we have the word for void, as well as numerous new words. I don't think that phrase is what is said either, but listening to it again I am almost certain the last phrase Wally says is MARA LOHK instead of KHRA LOHK. Hopefully we will get some more context in the future to figure out what this means. The most haunting lore tablet in my opinion is this one. "You wouldn't welch on a deal, would you?" and the answer "I saved them. All of them. Never said I'd save you." Makes me wonder what The Man in The Wall has planned for us. Honestly I might even make my own Warframe lore channel if I can get a decent mic first because I feel like there is so many interesting things to talk about but so few people talking about them. So, it is great to see you making videos again.
You should, and there's no better time! So much to discuss now and yes I saw a few of those tablets as well as the lore for each section of duviri. What I really like about those tablets is that it seems like void is saying more requiems when you say the right answer, which opens up all kinds of other questions. And it's even better when you give the wrong answer, lol! Thank you for enjoying the vid, and let me know if you ever upload anything!
From Sythel's dialogue in Duviri I believe that the Man in the Wall gave us our powers to spread fear (I believe he feeds on it), also believe the fear Balas felt in death fed Wallie with enough energy to pierce the veil momentarily instilling fear in the Lotus. In the earlier War Within quest when you drink the Kuva, What took you so long is what he said through us I believe this permanently tied us together with him. If you pour it out he says don't forget you owe me, which hints he is mad you didn't lock yourself to his void creation of a body your inhabiting. I don't believe Wallie is a villain perse but I do see him being a Loki type character, where he likes to cause mischief and mayhem as it always benefits him. But doesn't want a complete end to all things as nothing existing will never be able to feed him fear. Just how I see things so far. Like what you see though, hoping we get more answers during or after Tennocon this year. Appreciate the thought inducing video TheDsIEGE!
“What took you so long” could also reference what Teshin did to wake the Tenno from the coddling reality that Margulis fed them and exposed them to the harsh reality of their existence.
@Lelfay While I see what your thinking I don't think it is as during the naberus story we find out that kuva is intended to solidify and deharmonize the soul of a body allowing for continuity, transferring of the soul to new bodies. We also find out that kuva is a byproduct of the void itself, likely blood of some sort. Just stands to reason he's commenting on the affects it has on the player during the scene in my eyes. But I could likely be wrong and your thoughts right. Also need to think that it won't likely have a strong impact on story as choices are not evil and good like most think, interview states that dark is calm and collected and light is fiery and passionate as stated by devs at DE. Believe the Tenno are a bridge for Wallie to reach out of the void. The reason we delete most timelines during the handshake from Wallie is so the bridge is stronger, our void self outside using void from our non void self being surrounded by it. Handshake from real and voidself creates a walkable bridge from both sides, allowing us to switch who is outside but maintaining powers. Drinking Kuva could also be taken as accepting this connection, which is why Wallie seems happy or mad by the War Within choice event, but still leads to same outcome as we still shook hands to make the deal itself. My thoughts were solidified when we found out what duviri was and that no alternate timeline truly exists, the void manifests the potential of things through emotions. We Tenno wanted free, fearing for our safety in the void Wallie was summoned to us, but children haven't lived long enough for their emotions to grow and develope which is why they maintain their minds easier than adults in the void. Just how I have taken the lore so far. Future holds many possibilities, maybe Tennocon will move story forward. I'm thinking we will learn what Hunhow is holding back that he mentioned in New War quest and how we will see more of Stalker. Likely what gave Lotus her powers and reason it required us shaking hands with her hand with Wallie using it. Still confused on this detail personally.
I personally wouldn't trust the embodiment of fear's paranoid thoughts on fear. All 5 emotions are very clearly unreliable narrators but Sythel the most given she's clearly paranoid and making stuff up
@Lylybeebee If you gather the lore of Duviri you might change how your seeing it. Wallie is literally invading and stealing parts and people of duviri. For what reason and what happens to them is TBD though. Also the council and Dominus are built from Drifter's emotions to help him control his own emotions in the void from what most have gathered. Just how I see it from everything I've gathered myself. Also I see Wallie as a chaotic being, not an evil one.
One theory that I’ve heard from the moment that the man in the wall appeared in front of us and the Lotus is that they made some sort of deal, similar to the one we made to get our powers, but we don’t know the terms. All we can really assume is that the deal was to either close the portal outright, or give the Lotus the power to close it herself
@@TheDsIEGEone problem though- if the lotus is originally a sentient then how is it possible for her to do so much on her own? I’ve wondered at this because very little of her is actually known- and we ourselves get to choose who and what she chooses as the player even if that’s not canonically correct.
@@daydreamdirty Who's to say she doesn't have some void magic herself? She did travel through the void as Natah, and perhaps had an encounter with Wally there. Sinc the void makes sentients barren, maybe the deal was for her to have children of her own thus...the Tenno.
@@godzelda123 I’m certain there will be a story there one day- but who knows when. There’s a lot here but who knows what direction the team will go in next.
Good to have you back man and as usual fantastic theory!. I've long been saying the man in the wall might not be our enemy and I've been slowly being proved right.
Yeah, I don't think he's necessarily out to get us... now. We'll see what the future holds once we are not useful to him, but for the moment, I do believe we are aligned in our efforts and he's very much enjoying that.
This is really a great take on the Tenno. You've broken it down slightly different than I did--I always considered the Tenno "gift" to be that they connected with their infinite alternate selves, so that rather than being just one being, they are ALL of them. When one of our infinite selves gets hit with a bullet on the battlefield and drops dead, rather than the Tenno actually dying for real, that body disappears and we are immediately replaced with the version of ourselves that, say, stepped slightly to the left and missed that bullet. And there are no limits to the number of alternate selves--in fact, every moment, an infinite number are being newly created. But I also find it very credible that it's kind of the opposite--that all became one instead of one became all. The one thing I can't really get behind is that Wally is somehow motivated to save the Origin System from Ballas. I don't think he cares about that, to be honest. It's giving the Orokin, and Ballas in particular, way too much credit that they are that much on the radar of the being that personifies the infinitely infinite multiverse. No, I think there's some other motive here. What it is, I can't guess, but I bet it's of much more esoteric/cosmic significance than "a lot of people in one solar system in one universe are going to die". If anything, it seems to me that perhaps Wally is somehow bound to the Void, aka, the "world between the worlds" itself, and has no entry point into any of the actual realities--until Albrecht Entrati pierced the membrane later named after him. It seems that now he wants in, similar perhaps to the C'tan or Chaos gods from Warhammer 40k lore (and there are a LOT of similarities between these two universes, by the way), to taste the pleasures of reality, perhaps? And why did he select the children of the Zariman 10-0 to bestow such power upon? Probably because they were the only ones who could handle it. As the Elder queen of the Grineer said, while the adults on the Zariman drowned in the madness of the deep void, the children "were swimming in it". Perhaps being children, who typically do not have as firm a separation between imagination and reality, enabled them to embrace the insanity of the void and not go mad like everyone else did.
Anytime anyone talks shit about warframe’s lore I point them here. We all like to ignore that lore in warframe or forget it’s present but that’s honestly just because a lot of us are just too lazy to find it. For people that do find it I do think it uncovers the many layers warframe has from learning about who ordis once was for the first time to hearing the stories of Solaris and the inception of the corpus through parvos and now towards cosmic horror despite how clear cut things seem DE really know how to make us scratch our heads in the setting they made and I love that. Glad to see you back looking forward to everything you can theorize about duviri. There’s all these data pads now in duviri with lore in them but I’m too dumb to understand what they’re referring, would be cool to see you cover them in the future if they mean anything
I do think Wally is still the ultimate villian. I think the story is more of a deal with the devil kind of thing. Agree with the fact that we consider Wally to be a higher life-form that has a lot more insight in our paths and is helping us at keypoints for his own interests. However it was always framed as if those key points in the story, while somehow working us for us, had a lot bigger prize to pay then we were aware of. Take the Scene where we actually get our powers. I mean it is pretty clear only 2 versions of the "observed tenno - the tenno we play" are left over and every other version dies. Right after creating the concept of a multiverse basically leaves us as a two and everything else as infinite. I can't imagine what impact that might have, but it certainly wasn't presented as a good thing. I don't know if Wally himself interfered in any of our "deaths" or if that has become an innate feature of the tenno after becoming such a special existence. I think it is worth visiting what the Void and Wally might represent.
@@sadsworth4605 Landlords are real, though, and you better read that lease before you sign it. The devil shows up in secular art for the same reason vampires do. As an anti-theist, I do enjoy watching the concept get twisted away from religion and back to its proper place in metaphor.
I never thought of the Man in the Wall as the Tenno’s father, but when you mentioned it it immediately got me thinking. The MitW is basically the god of the warframe universe. As you said he’s all seeing, and potentially is the consciousness of the world itself, and the lotus is our mother because she couldn’t have children of her own so she adopted us and became our space mom, so in a way being our virgin mother…. Do you see where I’m going with this? I know it’s a heck of a stretch to call any of the Tenno “Christ-like”, but the other connections aren’t that crazy, right? Good to have you back.
no no, every single "reborn" character carries religious symbolism, like it or not. and the tenno are indeed reborn, maybe not after 3 days, but its no stretch to apply a theologic reading on this.
Well hello there it's good to see you again. Honestly feels like seeing a good old friend come around, I hope whatever happened to ya didn't do to much harm and it's nice to see you again. Do hope you continue the amazing things and you stay well. Ummm next time maybe give us a heads up it honestly made a lot of us worried... Nice to have you back and I hope you do a lot of good!
8:44 paused 1. I never noticed that, and it definitely puts some weight on your theory. 2. Now whenever I go through Duviri, I'm definitely gonna feel watched. Thanks for that.
First of all, god damn I missed your videos! Glad to know you're still around and enjoying the mystery that is the current warframe lore! Second of all... 17:17 you clever son of a gun...the devil truly IS in the details huh? I don't know how often you play the game at all but regardless of that, I hope you have fun exploring the latest content and crafting new interesting theories around it, you have some really interesting takes and your passion for the subject is inspiring!
She doesn't really smile too often does she? Interesting timing on that one! What's really gonna blow your mind is that her severed hand, while sitting the chair in the orbiter? it's missing the index finger before we get any of the archon shards back.
@@TheDsIEGE Siege...buddy...Don't do this to me dude! 😆 I try my absolute best to pay as much attention as possible to these things whenever a new quest is out but damn, there is so much complexity in there! Boy oh boy, I'll be happily waiting for any future videos you may release around the subject, you're one of the few creators that approaches the Warframe lore in a way that feels truly interesting and entertaining to me, keep up the great work dude!
@@Cut_Content Oh I do! Mostly whenever there is some big update strongly connected to the main story line though. Warframe is one of the very few games that actually got me fully invested into it's lore and super excited for whatever may happen in the future.
@@TheDsIEGE Her severed hand can't have ended up in Duviri right in front of the Drifter just by chance. Can it? Especially considering that Duviri is the Drifter's personal pocket dimension they created within the Void. It's very likely Wally had some hand in that. (pun intended) Especially since it's the inciting incident of changing the apathetic cycle that Drifter is stuck in which leads to the upset the Drifter causes for Narmar. To quote Doctor Who "It's Wibbly Wobbly Timey Whimy ... Stuff"
Welcome back at first i thought the man in the wall just killed the other copies of the tenno to gather their "life force" or something and put it into one. But your theory actually make sense now that i think about it. also at the then of the quest, the lotus said she saws nothing? yeah, she lying!
A reminder that The Heart of the Void in the Deimos quest which maintains the connection, was only threatened by Family. Also, Lotus too has made her own deal, hence being able to pick her visage, she has her wavefunction collapsed by the observation of the Tenno into a single entity. And likely Tau had its sun extinguished in the same way as Praghasa needed when the Sentients made their way to Sol.
My last job made it real difficult to post with any regularity so I had to choose between the two. I left a little while back and now I've got time again. So... I've got videos to make again!
OMFG, I thought we would never hear from you again. Last I remember, you left to learn more to explain WF better. Glad you're back. Thank you thank you thank you!!!
I am so glad to see you back. I thought you will not make any new video like this. I am so glad I was wrong. please keep them comming. Awesome observations, as always. Made me think... as always. Good work :)
One of the tablets in Duviri asks something along the lines of "What should you do to prepare for continuity" and the correct answer is "Keep my body pure and fresh". This leads me to speculate that Wally might wanna use continuity on us like the Grineer Queen. There's other dialog that hints that he wants to become like us, and don't forget how happy he is at the end of War Within when you drink or keep the Kuva.
Considering how void corruption often manifests as fractal distortions of present matter, I think part of the void's property is that it some sort of "higher" reality from which our reality is project against the "Albrecht membrane" that separates our space-time (what is) from what is not (things that were, will be and never be). Different realities would therefore be a different perspective/observation of the same higher reality. I think this is also why Eternalism is symbolized by a cube. Different sides display different realities.
i could have worn i was subed after watching an old video of yours and really enjoying your voice and writing! I'm hoping to see more of these! thank you!
Oh yeah, did you know that new requiem words have been revealed through the mini quizzes scattered across duviri? I've heard some say the words Wally says at the end of TNW fits in better than some of the ones we knew of since before from the requiem mods.. Any thoughts on this matter? Oh and, I'm also super glad you'll be making more videos on UA-cam again, can't wait for the next one, and I've heard the name of the next quest has been leaked via the ios beta tests.. "The Kalymos Sequence", with the prerequisite being TNW, and I read in another comment that "Kalymos" apparently was the name of Albrecht Entrati's Kavat? Maybe they will delve deeper into the Albrecht Entrati backstory, and that first contact with The Man In The Wall in the future updates, and around tennocon 2023?
My dude, it is so good to see you back. Ever since the new war originally dropped I've been waiting for a video to hear your thoughts on all this crazy shit.
1 thing that I always questioned is that practically everyone either did not know who the Drifter was except Hunhow, Ballas, Lotus, and Ordis even though they or somewhat wrong in there assumptions they still very much realize this is the Tenno did the man in the wall do something to people so that only a select few notice what the Drifter is or what I have no clue. Btw glad your back
The reason no-one recognises Drifter is just because they're a different person. Ordis recognises Drifter as the Operator because your DNA is the same, prolly how Lotus and Hunhow know you too
I'm not playing Warframe anymore and even consciously refusing to do so. But. I'll always be happy to watch your videos! I like hearing your perpective and experiencing the story from your videos is a lot better that in game anyways!
good timing and as always, great video. man this open up new perspectives about the main lore in warframe, so many questions! i hope DE cook something good related to this for Tennocon.
One thing that annoyed me about the new war quest it confirmed the stuff that we already knew from the few pieces of lore we had, but this perspective is interesting I always tought the tenno are chosen as the pawns to do the dirty work for him, my theory being that wally needs us so he can see the solar system while hiding from some other god that put him in the void That god being dead or heavily wounder hence why kuva exist, but since in the voruna story was mentioned that kuva reacted stronger in the void for the orokin to transfer themselves, it made me theorize that kuva is wallys blood Then again the lore is too open handed to come to conclusion with wally
the finger reactor in the zariman does seem to have some kuva colours, doenst it? and the giant mosquito piercing its tip? to me, kuva is 100% a vital-essence analogue, be it blood, oro, qi, whatever terminology you want
Thank you and no... Work just took up too much of my focus to do the channel, so I had to make a choice. That being said... I've got the time now. And it seems like I have a lot to work with...
I think you put it quite well with your analogy of the body and the cells in it. I've thought of the void as a sort of an outside and Wally maybe not as much a manifestation of the Void as a whole, but more of the particular multiverse where we live in. But as we work with our surroundings more than with our insides, so does Wally work with the void instead of its insides, using a "void tool" to have access into itself. I know this kinda takes the idea and runs with it. But when you said about Lotus being the mother and Wally being the father to the Tenno, I suddenly realized that yeah, it's actually a very classic "duality combining in a completely novel form made of both parents". As in the sentients have no spiritual essence and are completely of the physical world, and Wally being in a way the complete opposite of that. As a side note, I was kinda disappointed when the two mythos clearly inspiring Kullervo weren't explored more as it'd have been another interesting thing to see. The name of the frame and the story of the crimes are way too obviously of our local (Karelian and Finnish) ancient myths, and the number of crimes (7) and piercing daggers reminded me of the catholic Our Lady of Sorrows, the aspect of Mary where she is pierced by seven swords depicting her seven great sorrows. Maybe it'll rise at a later date. After this many years, I'm not putting anything beyond DE anymore.
in the Duviri Paradox, in the open world, you can find a datapad with a question with two answers on it. The datapad eludes to how "The Wall" is the point between reality and unreality, or the Void. To me, this contextualizes Wally's title. "The Man in the Wall" an influential being that is between reality and unreality, time and untime, he knows what is, what has, and what will be. A paradoxal being in himself.
“Good and evil” are a matter of perspective. As a example we see the origin, grineer and corpus as bad guys but that’s only because we play from the POV of the Tenno. We don’t know if the man in the wall is good, bad or neutral. It’s impossible to say; but he is basically our father all things considered
Honestly, I feel like what Duviri revealed about the origin of this land and to by this also possible full extent of Tenno's powers in the void is something worth discussing in the next video And for this one, well outside of Man in the Wal thing (which is also shaky as DE sound designer when asked about what MITW said mentioned the requiem theory is incorrect) i already had most of these conclusions myself
Duviri helped me finalize a few things I was on the fence with. I've already begun writing a video on Entrati's connection to Duviri, but some other new things seemed to have popped up on duviri recently as well, including a visit from wally while I was in there... Certainly wasn't expecting that. I've definitely got a lot to go over.
Idk of this matters BUT i always wondered how come our tenno was the one to make this deal? After all, across all accounts and players and the choices we make for our character's Backstory, they all end up in that shut in classroom. Maybe, each dimension in the eternalist multiverse which died did so because they were the ones who didn't approach wally? Him choosing one universe, the one timeline, where this peculiar Tenno approached him and didn't turn away when confronted with the incomprehensible. The kind of person who could do what was needed in the Man's eyes
I had always tried Warframe but never really got into it, but when you posted this vid i tried it again and got into some story heavy quests and am now loving it.
About the nature of the Man in the Wall, I'd love him being an eldritch abomination just trying to make friends :) - Like a he finally found someone not dying or instantly going mad seeing him and now he's trying his best (in an awkward way) to impress and preserve the Tenno(giving us powers and keeping a future intact where we exist). There's also one line you can hear at the Reliquary Drive if idling as the operator, that makes me think, there's bigger fish out there than Wally ("Something's out there, kiddo... watching us.") and that he's not the villain, or at least not the main threat. Pretty meta, but I assumed the Tenno not being restricted to one dimension just for the sake of explaining how we can replay missions over and over again, without the NPCs getting any wiser (I mean just how often could Frohd Bek fall for the virus we installed in the Ambulas?). Also going by the single player story missions I assumed, that we are the only Tenno awake in "our" reality - every other WF we encounter, being a visitor from another dimension (and every other Tenno in our reality still asleep on Lua). At least that would explain what allowed Ballas to steam roll the Origin System just by disabling "us", reducing the Tenno influence in this world (Otherwise - I mean how often could he pull the "throw Lotus into the Void" stunt?).
Very nice technical explanation. I liked the idea of the both the Tenno and the Man-in-the wall as being in a state of perpetual superposition occupying several states simultaneously. This is actually not the first time this is brought up in the game, as Ordis describes this exact phenomenon when explaining the function of the Void/Requiem Relics. There's got to be a correlation in there somewhere right given the fact the Man, the Tenno and the Relics are all closely related to the Void? I haven't exactly played the quest yet so I'll refrain from any theories. ------------------- (Ordis' Explanation of Void Relics after installing Void Relic Orbiter segment): "Void Relics, what a baffling concept." "Ordis will try to understand Void Relics again: They say the contents of a Relic are simultaneously this thing, or this thing, or this thing, but also that thing and certainly never just one thing." "That is, until... until it's exposed to a Void Fissure?" "And at that point, all the possibilities collapse, each one falling away until the Relic cracks open and exposes one, singular thing." (Typo: Text:"And at that moment," / Spoken: "Then, against all tenets of logic,") "that thing becomes the only thing the Relic ever contained?! Pfft... WHAT A LOAD OF- Odis prefers known quantities, thank-you-very-much."
I've been thinking the same thing about the man in the wall being the personification of the void, and so also of the universe since the void sorrounds all of it (i see it as the void being a see and the systems being islands).
Taking into consideration the events from the War within, the Zeriman incident, the Requiems, and the end of the New War. The MITW's influence on the Tenno can be reflected in the Moon choices throughout the story. Sun's choices are Passionate and hasty, Neutral choices represent Balance and control, and Moon reflects Pragmatism and Idealism. The actions of the Tenno with Sun choices often are brash and irrational. Neutral actions are considerate but controlling, and Moon actions are rational and empathetic. During the end of the New War, the Lotus was acting as a conduit between us and the MITW during his appearance. Regardless of weather or not you drank the Kuva, It appears that He wants to directly inhabit the Tenno in some form or fasion. However, the Lotus stood in the way and became a vessel instead. The Tenno acts as a bridge between the void and realspace, so i assume that through the Tenno the MITW could physically interact with realspace and accomplish whatever his goal is. The Tenno are able to see the MITW through halucinations that others don't notice, so it would make sense.
The audio was confirmed to not be requiems by de sound team. To hear what he really says. Just pitch it up and slow it down. Thats what one of the guys on the team had recommended.
@@TheDsIEGE It's a great video! Always loved your unique thoughts. Not many really get deep into Warframes lore, which is one of the best things about it.
Thank you for saying what I was thinking- minus the part about the possibility that the other versions of ourselves were weeded out….. I believe this as you’ve described is exactly as what’s going on…. So the man in the wall appearing at the end is meant to confirm even if it’s never made clear if he’s a good or a bad guy….. but him being an aspect of the universe is definitely a possibility. However I’d rather just label him as a god in the void than an aspect of the universe
I never considered Wally to be a father figure to the Tenno until you brought it up but I can totally see it now. The way he's the reason we even exist the way we do, him calling us 'kiddo', etc. I always saw him as this evil entity but maybe it's not so cut and dry considering he's an eldritch being with motivations beyond our understanding. God the way this game has shifted towards a more cosmic horror tone is so exciting.
Granted him calling us kiddo is most likely him teasing us in a way since that's something our Tenno's actual father said to him according to the War Within. Not to mention when Albrecht Entrati interacted with Wally, he called him "Little Bengal" which was a nickname his mother gave to him years ago.
I would argue that it is distinctly unfatherly to frequently remind someone "Don't forget kiddo... You owe me"
@@godzelda123 Considering the analogy to a body and cells Siege here used, the void, or also stated, the potential consciousness of the universe, wouldn't understand or know of it's own make up, the little insignificant things it's made of, clearly not on an emotional level as it seems to struggle with emotions.
While some might see the way the entity refers to us as Kiddo or Albrecht as Lil bangal as mocking. I imagine that the entity simply uses those nicknames cause the words are familiar to us, are comforting coming from a parental figure, which in a way, the entity is. It could call us all sorts of things, insignificant, ignorant, pitiful, but it chooses words that would, spoken by those familiar to us, would be comforting or endearing.
@@Ruleradminius
Has shifted?
Past tense?
Ha ha, maybe it's the Rell in me, but my autistic butt has been watching this plot unfold the whole time.
Rap.
Tap.
Tap.
It was never a ghost story.
Hmmm, Ghost Story is a good name for a Zaw.
Theater of Mind is a good name Kitgun.
Or perhaps it's the other way around?
@@oreiusenderson8861
That's the thing about Indifferent father figures.
They often tend to hurt their children while pursuing their own goals.
Just ask the Cavia, the Entrati family, the Tenno, or a great many human beings in real life.
"Warning, spoilers ahead for every quest in the game" is pretty much how it be after every new story update, with the cross-referencing they do sometimes.
LOL, you ain't kidding. I figured I'd just include them all and that way I won't be yelled at..
Yo! You're back! Its been ao long, I thought you might have actually died! Good to see you back, man.
I am still here, just finally have time to do UA-cam again. Thank you and I've got A LOT to talk about in the coming weeks and months!
@@TheDsIEGEsweet can't wait to fall in the loop again
@@TheDsIEGEsame…. But it’s good to see you back
Nice to hear your voice again and the way you talk/explain, really! 😊
Nah he ain't dying. Even hell is not enough to split him.
Hey, good to see you again!
Just in case you missed it, there are hidden dialogues from Sythel when you go see her in Duviri; she explains that Wally is the manifestation of the fear Albrecht felt when he entered the Void
I saw that! He basically gave the void a face, and now it's smiling at all of us. Interesting that it took a particular interest in the tenno children though, don't you think?
@@TheDsIEGE
Indeed, we still don't really know what his goal is, what could the incarnation of the fear of the Void want from us?
But as Reb said, he will be the focus of the upcoming story quests, I'm very excited to see what they'll do
@@TheDsIEGE if daddy wally is the sentience of the multiverse and he's tapped us tenno to protect the balance i guess that makes us realities immune system. confronting and neutralizing any major problems that come up
@@Cut_Contentdon’t forget Wally has another face as natah said!!!!
@@TheDsIEGEfear knows fear, the trauma of the zariman was a magnet to wally
Speaking of The Man Tn The Wall, it would probably be worth revisiting the impression of him made in Chains of Harrow... and the messages he leaves for you to find in Duviri, as well as Captain Vor's new monologue in The Circuit. I won't speak of those too much as they're very, very new, others can do their research, but Chains of Harrow and Angels of the Zarimen are fair game to me.
Rell, and by extension Palladino, refer to The Man in the Wall as 'The Indifference.' They were trying to hold him back, and I get the feeling that Rell probably had a deeper understanding of Wally than our Tenno does. He may not necessarily fall upon our moral framework enough to be considered 'malevolent', but that doesn't necessarily mean that he will be good for us in the long run, either.
It is also worth noting that... whilst we were empowered by the Void and have a unique relationship, our power has been made our own, as suggested by Quinn in Angels of the Zariman. "Oh, drew power but from a very different source. ... I wonder, do you even know just how brightly you shine?" The Holdfasts also describe the Reliquary, the other big source of Void influence -- Wally's Finger -- as _"bleak."_
Oh absolutely, I think the last three quests force us to call into question everything we know, but... I do think a playthrough of all the quests he touches is in order. I will say, if the man in the wall is born of Entrati's "darkness", so to speak, having to balance that with our "light" seems pretty par for the course, if you ask me.
He has a new monolog I thought it was the same
Vor has a *new* monologue??! I never heard it .... He dies before he really gets started.
Another line worth mentioning regarding this "light".
When the tenno first met Wally, they asked "Hey, lost your light? Here you can have mine".
The thing Wally wants from the deal is definitely this "light".
Welcome back! Hope this isn't the last we see of you! And by the Void, it never occurred to me that it was the Man in the Wall that closed the portal. Not the Lotus. My mind was blown by this theory, and I can't wait to find out what you uncover next!
Oh no... this is only the beginning. I've got a lot to discuss. There are a few things I've noticed that I haven't really seen mention of, so... I'll do it!
@@TheDsIEGE🎉
Eternalism is very similar to the many worlds interpretation, however it functionally only explains how time works. The many worlds interpretation implies that there are an infinite number of universes, with each possible outcome of a situation being true in a different universe. Schrodingers cat, for example, exists superimposed between life and death, and would therefore be definitively dead on one universe, and alive in another and it is only decided which universe that is once you open the box. The best way to describe this is branching paths; each decision you make presents with you a set of options, and each option exists as the one you chose in a different universe. Multiple universe, multiple realities. Most people are sort of familiar with this concept.
On the other hand, eternalism argues that all time is equally real. The past is real, the present is real, and all possible futures are real. The best way to describe this is to compare it to linear time. If time only moves forwards, never back, and you intersected time as an external observer, you would only ever see the current snapshot of events that are happening at the present. Unlike linear time, eternalism time is like a sphere where the center is the present, and where ever you look, thats the future and the past is always behind you. Because the past is equally real, the future loops back into itself as you move forward through time. However, as an external observer, if you were to intersect time you wouldnt just see the singular present, you would observe every iteration of the present that exists within the various axis of the sphere. There isnt an infinite number of universes, rather, there is an infinite number of slightly varied timelines that only exist if you observe them from a different perspective.
So in the many worlds interpretation, the Drifter ISNT you. They are identical to you in many ways, but otherwise, they are a wholly distinct and seperate from you. They have their own timeline, their own universe, their own existence.
In eternalism, however, the drifter is inexorably you. They ARE you, identical to you in all but one aspect; they exist as a different perspective of you. They exist in the same timeline as you, just a different slice of it.
Case in point, the new duviri paradox opening literally ends with you escaping from Vor AS the operator, as Teshin says "Be warned. You will not be as you are NOW, but as you were THEN.".
I dont think that our power comes from being quantumly entangled, or anything like that. I think that the void is this kind of... space, that exists between all perspectives of time. When we made the deal with Wally, he anchored part of our being INSIDE the void, forever a part of its intangible, malleable existance. When we die we return outside of time, inside the void until our essence reforms and we materialize back into real space-time. Our powers are tied to the malleable nature of the void, its ability to respond and structure itself according to ones thoughts and feelings. We are this being that links both worlds together. Even the ghost of zariman say that our light is different than the song of the void, which means that whatever Wally did, had the unintended consequence of fundamentally altering how we utilize the void.
Or this was Wally's plan all along and he needed us to be different, to be both void and real. After all, its our death at the hands of Ballas that manifested the Drifter into our perspective of time. And to continue off of that point, I think that our operator manifested the drifter back in time as a survival mechanism by sending their past self the lotus's hand, giving their alternate perspective the means for which to rescue them from the void but only to the past self of theirs that was stuck in the void to begin with. Kinda like a bootstraps or grandfathers paradox. The duviri paradox.
I think that Wally made us like him. I think that whatever he is, we are as well. A being that can observe and interact with different perspectives of time by manipulating the void itself. I could be wrong, I made this original theory before duviri but duviri is making it VERY likely to be the case.
It's nice to see someone else with a good grip on Eternalism. However, I highly doubt that in the Drifter's perspective of linear time, that they went from the End of Duviri to Vor's Prize. If this was the case, they never would have shown up in the New War. Teshin's words likely meant that the Drifter would escape as they were, before they were trapped in Duviri, but after they spent several years surviving on the Zariman. No longer having Teshin's swords and the Lotus's hand. The biggest flaw with this however, is how the Drifter then got their hands on the Sirocco.
@Karuiko it's the most complicated theoretical philosophy I know. It's also really the ONLY philosophy I have a half decent understanding of.
I dont know if my idea is really the case. That's the problem with time travel and paradoxes, it's so easy to get lost in them.
Fundamentally, I see two closed loops. The primary loop, which ends with the drifter assisting us in saving the lotus. And the secondary loop, where the drifter gets their ability to use transference and the Sirocco and leaves the paradox to become us. When you start with the drifter, Ordis asks you why you lost your powers and the drifter responds that it's not that they did it's more like they haven't gotten them yet.
Which, personally, I think reinforces the idea that the drifter escaping duviri with the hand is the starting loop that culminates in the new war loop.
Eternalism technically would allow the past to be happening at the same time as the future, provided the right perspective. It even allows the past to happen ahead of the future.
Eternalism is cool but it does make my head hurt
I don't quite understand what you're trying to say with "loops", as from the perspective within a singular world line, time moves normally and only loops within Duviri. Eternalism is a lot easier to understand from a 6th dimensional view. Something happening at the "same time" across different world lines(a path in 4th dimension) would all be intersected by a line across the 5th dimension, such as the Tenno being stabbed by Ballas. In your branching sphere/circle example, this would be the equivalent of adding another circle with the radius of said event. It would intersect each branching path at the same moment in "time". In most cases, these snapshots will be similar. At least in some way, as they all originated from the same point.
@@Karuiko Ive written this like 4 times and I keep losing it because of my adhd clicking on different videos.
The loops thing was a narrative reference not a time one. Specifically speaking, that duviri is its own loop, and new war is its own. However, they are connected. Drifter getting Natah's hand and sirocco in duviri, Drifter having sirocco but NOT natahs hand in new war, the table set for two in both, the inversion of the mirror mechanic in both, Teshin dying in new war and being a void revenant in duviri (also, appearing around the same time that Albreicht/doppleganger does, which happens ages before even the first events of warframe do). Ect ect.
Not to mention all the mirror symbology. Its hard not to imagine the events of the game as some kind of funhouse mirror reflecting alernative time perspectives to us. The alternative warframe log in screen? Chef's kiss.
I meant that eternalism was complex because as a concept it allows for an infinitely complex perspective of things. And never mind the morality issues it poses! Chose a parent, dont, it doesnt matter it happens and it doesnt anyways.
Because the entire concept of eternalism would technically allow perspectives of time that present events out of order in such a way that it isnt, technically, out of order. From the right perspective within eternalism, a future event could be observed before a past event. Or you could see past, present and future happening simultaneously.
No wonder adults in the void go mad.
@@Karuiko to me, the one escaping Vor is not the operator, it's the drifter.
I'm glad to see you back. Awesome video as usual! Have you found the lore tablets in Duviri yet, because some of them are very interesting and give some more context to the things you were talking about. I think you are spot on with your comments about Albrecht Entrati. One of the tablets asks "What was the ultimate fate of Albrecht Entrati?" with the answer being "That's the question, isn't it, kiddo?". And if you find Sythel hiding in her home, listening to the walls, she will say this line. "The first scholar looked into the Void and he feared it. And his fear took shape. Do you understand? That's how all this started." If this line is to be believed, the Man in The Wall is the voids response to all the emotions Albrecht was feeling when he went into the void.
Also, I don't think that interpretation of what The Man In The Wall says is entirely accurate. (One of the devs confirmed we didn't quite have it yet.) I believe there are more requiem words, and possibly even a whole requiem language. Another one of the tablets lends itself to this. "What is 'the Wall'?" and the correct answer is "The Wall of Bone in whiKU NOMA ELU RA KAH, MARA LOHK?". Here we have the word for void, as well as numerous new words. I don't think that phrase is what is said either, but listening to it again I am almost certain the last phrase Wally says is MARA LOHK instead of KHRA LOHK. Hopefully we will get some more context in the future to figure out what this means.
The most haunting lore tablet in my opinion is this one. "You wouldn't welch on a deal, would you?" and the answer "I saved them. All of them. Never said I'd save you." Makes me wonder what The Man in The Wall has planned for us.
Honestly I might even make my own Warframe lore channel if I can get a decent mic first because I feel like there is so many interesting things to talk about but so few people talking about them. So, it is great to see you making videos again.
You should, and there's no better time! So much to discuss now and yes I saw a few of those tablets as well as the lore for each section of duviri. What I really like about those tablets is that it seems like void is saying more requiems when you say the right answer, which opens up all kinds of other questions. And it's even better when you give the wrong answer, lol! Thank you for enjoying the vid, and let me know if you ever upload anything!
From Sythel's dialogue in Duviri I believe that the Man in the Wall gave us our powers to spread fear (I believe he feeds on it), also believe the fear Balas felt in death fed Wallie with enough energy to pierce the veil momentarily instilling fear in the Lotus. In the earlier War Within quest when you drink the Kuva, What took you so long is what he said through us I believe this permanently tied us together with him. If you pour it out he says don't forget you owe me, which hints he is mad you didn't lock yourself to his void creation of a body your inhabiting. I don't believe Wallie is a villain perse but I do see him being a Loki type character, where he likes to cause mischief and mayhem as it always benefits him. But doesn't want a complete end to all things as nothing existing will never be able to feed him fear. Just how I see things so far. Like what you see though, hoping we get more answers during or after Tennocon this year. Appreciate the thought inducing video TheDsIEGE!
“What took you so long” could also reference what Teshin did to wake the Tenno from the coddling reality that Margulis fed them and exposed them to the harsh reality of their existence.
@Lelfay While I see what your thinking I don't think it is as during the naberus story we find out that kuva is intended to solidify and deharmonize the soul of a body allowing for continuity, transferring of the soul to new bodies. We also find out that kuva is a byproduct of the void itself, likely blood of some sort. Just stands to reason he's commenting on the affects it has on the player during the scene in my eyes. But I could likely be wrong and your thoughts right. Also need to think that it won't likely have a strong impact on story as choices are not evil and good like most think, interview states that dark is calm and collected and light is fiery and passionate as stated by devs at DE. Believe the Tenno are a bridge for Wallie to reach out of the void. The reason we delete most timelines during the handshake from Wallie is so the bridge is stronger, our void self outside using void from our non void self being surrounded by it. Handshake from real and voidself creates a walkable bridge from both sides, allowing us to switch who is outside but maintaining powers. Drinking Kuva could also be taken as accepting this connection, which is why Wallie seems happy or mad by the War Within choice event, but still leads to same outcome as we still shook hands to make the deal itself. My thoughts were solidified when we found out what duviri was and that no alternate timeline truly exists, the void manifests the potential of things through emotions. We Tenno wanted free, fearing for our safety in the void Wallie was summoned to us, but children haven't lived long enough for their emotions to grow and develope which is why they maintain their minds easier than adults in the void. Just how I have taken the lore so far. Future holds many possibilities, maybe Tennocon will move story forward. I'm thinking we will learn what Hunhow is holding back that he mentioned in New War quest and how we will see more of Stalker. Likely what gave Lotus her powers and reason it required us shaking hands with her hand with Wallie using it. Still confused on this detail personally.
I personally wouldn't trust the embodiment of fear's paranoid thoughts on fear. All 5 emotions are very clearly unreliable narrators but Sythel the most given she's clearly paranoid and making stuff up
@Lylybeebee If you gather the lore of Duviri you might change how your seeing it. Wallie is literally invading and stealing parts and people of duviri. For what reason and what happens to them is TBD though. Also the council and Dominus are built from Drifter's emotions to help him control his own emotions in the void from what most have gathered. Just how I see it from everything I've gathered myself. Also I see Wallie as a chaotic being, not an evil one.
@@zekieff Oh absolutely. I understand that part, but I still wouldn’t come to that conclusion from listening to the emotions.
One theory that I’ve heard from the moment that the man in the wall appeared in front of us and the Lotus is that they made some sort of deal, similar to the one we made to get our powers, but we don’t know the terms. All we can really assume is that the deal was to either close the portal outright, or give the Lotus the power to close it herself
Yeah, I'd say this sounds pretty legit.
@@TheDsIEGEone problem though- if the lotus is originally a sentient then how is it possible for her to do so much on her own? I’ve wondered at this because very little of her is actually known- and we ourselves get to choose who and what she chooses as the player even if that’s not canonically correct.
@@daydreamdirty Who's to say she doesn't have some void magic herself? She did travel through the void as Natah, and perhaps had an encounter with Wally there. Sinc the void makes sentients barren, maybe the deal was for her to have children of her own thus...the Tenno.
@@godzelda123 I’m certain there will be a story there one day- but who knows when. There’s a lot here but who knows what direction the team will go in next.
Good to have you back man and as usual fantastic theory!. I've long been saying the man in the wall might not be our enemy and I've been slowly being proved right.
Yeah, I don't think he's necessarily out to get us... now. We'll see what the future holds once we are not useful to him, but for the moment, I do believe we are aligned in our efforts and he's very much enjoying that.
the tennos were 'born' from the void they're his children
This is really a great take on the Tenno. You've broken it down slightly different than I did--I always considered the Tenno "gift" to be that they connected with their infinite alternate selves, so that rather than being just one being, they are ALL of them. When one of our infinite selves gets hit with a bullet on the battlefield and drops dead, rather than the Tenno actually dying for real, that body disappears and we are immediately replaced with the version of ourselves that, say, stepped slightly to the left and missed that bullet. And there are no limits to the number of alternate selves--in fact, every moment, an infinite number are being newly created. But I also find it very credible that it's kind of the opposite--that all became one instead of one became all.
The one thing I can't really get behind is that Wally is somehow motivated to save the Origin System from Ballas. I don't think he cares about that, to be honest. It's giving the Orokin, and Ballas in particular, way too much credit that they are that much on the radar of the being that personifies the infinitely infinite multiverse. No, I think there's some other motive here. What it is, I can't guess, but I bet it's of much more esoteric/cosmic significance than "a lot of people in one solar system in one universe are going to die".
If anything, it seems to me that perhaps Wally is somehow bound to the Void, aka, the "world between the worlds" itself, and has no entry point into any of the actual realities--until Albrecht Entrati pierced the membrane later named after him. It seems that now he wants in, similar perhaps to the C'tan or Chaos gods from Warhammer 40k lore (and there are a LOT of similarities between these two universes, by the way), to taste the pleasures of reality, perhaps?
And why did he select the children of the Zariman 10-0 to bestow such power upon? Probably because they were the only ones who could handle it. As the Elder queen of the Grineer said, while the adults on the Zariman drowned in the madness of the deep void, the children "were swimming in it". Perhaps being children, who typically do not have as firm a separation between imagination and reality, enabled them to embrace the insanity of the void and not go mad like everyone else did.
Anytime anyone talks shit about warframe’s lore I point them here. We all like to ignore that lore in warframe or forget it’s present but that’s honestly just because a lot of us are just too lazy to find it. For people that do find it I do think it uncovers the many layers warframe has from learning about who ordis once was for the first time to hearing the stories of Solaris and the inception of the corpus through parvos and now towards cosmic horror despite how clear cut things seem DE really know how to make us scratch our heads in the setting they made and I love that.
Glad to see you back looking forward to everything you can theorize about duviri.
There’s all these data pads now in duviri with lore in them but I’m too dumb to understand what they’re referring, would be cool to see you cover them in the future if they mean anything
I do think Wally is still the ultimate villian.
I think the story is more of a deal with the devil kind of thing.
Agree with the fact that we consider Wally to be a higher life-form that has a lot more insight in our paths and is helping us at keypoints for his own interests.
However it was always framed as if those key points in the story, while somehow working us for us, had a lot bigger prize to pay then we were aware of.
Take the Scene where we actually get our powers. I mean it is pretty clear only 2 versions of the "observed tenno - the tenno we play" are left over and every other version dies.
Right after creating the concept of a multiverse basically leaves us as a two and everything else as infinite. I can't imagine what impact that might have, but it certainly wasn't presented as a good thing.
I don't know if Wally himself interfered in any of our "deaths" or if that has become an innate feature of the tenno after becoming such a special existence.
I think it is worth visiting what the Void and Wally might represent.
The devil isnt real there is no need for stories to always bring those concepts it could be something else
@@sadsworth4605
Landlords are real, though, and you better read that lease before you sign it.
The devil shows up in secular art for the same reason vampires do.
As an anti-theist, I do enjoy watching the concept get twisted away from religion and back to its proper place in metaphor.
I never thought of the Man in the Wall as the Tenno’s father, but when you mentioned it it immediately got me thinking. The MitW is basically the god of the warframe universe. As you said he’s all seeing, and potentially is the consciousness of the world itself, and the lotus is our mother because she couldn’t have children of her own so she adopted us and became our space mom, so in a way being our virgin mother…. Do you see where I’m going with this? I know it’s a heck of a stretch to call any of the Tenno “Christ-like”, but the other connections aren’t that crazy, right?
Good to have you back.
no no, every single "reborn" character carries religious symbolism, like it or not. and the tenno are indeed reborn, maybe not after 3 days, but its no stretch to apply a theologic reading on this.
Well hello there it's good to see you again. Honestly feels like seeing a good old friend come around, I hope whatever happened to ya didn't do to much harm and it's nice to see you again. Do hope you continue the amazing things and you stay well. Ummm next time maybe give us a heads up it honestly made a lot of us worried...
Nice to have you back and I hope you do a lot of good!
It's good to be back. It'll be nice to be able to talk again about lore and such. I finally have time to do it!
8:44 paused
1. I never noticed that, and it definitely puts some weight on your theory.
2. Now whenever I go through Duviri, I'm definitely gonna feel watched.
Thanks for that.
First of all, god damn I missed your videos! Glad to know you're still around and enjoying the mystery that is the current warframe lore!
Second of all... 17:17 you clever son of a gun...the devil truly IS in the details huh?
I don't know how often you play the game at all but regardless of that, I hope you have fun exploring the latest content and crafting new interesting theories around it, you have some really interesting takes and your passion for the subject is inspiring!
She doesn't really smile too often does she? Interesting timing on that one! What's really gonna blow your mind is that her severed hand, while sitting the chair in the orbiter? it's missing the index finger before we get any of the archon shards back.
@@TheDsIEGE Siege...buddy...Don't do this to me dude! 😆
I try my absolute best to pay as much attention as possible to these things whenever a new quest is out but damn, there is so much complexity in there! Boy oh boy, I'll be happily waiting for any future videos you may release around the subject, you're one of the few creators that approaches the Warframe lore in a way that feels truly interesting and entertaining to me, keep up the great work dude!
@@Khamydrian
Funny seeing you here, I didn't know you played Warframe
@@Cut_Content Oh I do! Mostly whenever there is some big update strongly connected to the main story line though. Warframe is one of the very few games that actually got me fully invested into it's lore and super excited for whatever may happen in the future.
@@TheDsIEGE Her severed hand can't have ended up in Duviri right in front of the Drifter just by chance. Can it? Especially considering that Duviri is the Drifter's personal pocket dimension they created within the Void.
It's very likely Wally had some hand in that. (pun intended) Especially since it's the inciting incident of changing the apathetic cycle that Drifter is stuck in which leads to the upset the Drifter causes for Narmar.
To quote Doctor Who "It's Wibbly Wobbly Timey Whimy ... Stuff"
The best Warframe lore and speculation channel is back!
Welcome back
at first i thought the man in the wall just killed the other copies of the tenno to gather their "life force" or something and put it into one. But your theory actually make sense now that i think about it.
also at the then of the quest, the lotus said she saws nothing? yeah, she lying!
A reminder that The Heart of the Void in the Deimos quest which maintains the connection, was only threatened by Family. Also, Lotus too has made her own deal, hence being able to pick her visage, she has her wavefunction collapsed by the observation of the Tenno into a single entity. And likely Tau had its sun extinguished in the same way as Praghasa needed when the Sentients made their way to Sol.
I can't believe you're finally back, I hope you will make more videos
Thank you and believe me... this is just the first of many I want to go over!
The legend is back can't wait to watch full video
Thank you, I hope you enjoy it! I Need to get the rust off a bit, lol...
I thought you quit! Glad to see you back, hope things are going well for you.
My last job made it real difficult to post with any regularity so I had to choose between the two. I left a little while back and now I've got time again. So... I've got videos to make again!
BRUH!!!! SO Glad you're back I thought....Nevermind I'm glad that you are alive and well
No, this tenno still breathes... and has a lot to talk about! Thank you for coming back to enjoy the vid, I hope you like it!
OMFG, I thought we would never hear from you again. Last I remember, you left to learn more to explain WF better. Glad you're back. Thank you thank you thank you!!!
I am so glad to see you back. I thought you will not make any new video like this. I am so glad I was wrong. please keep them comming. Awesome observations, as always. Made me think... as always. Good work :)
One of the tablets in Duviri asks something along the lines of "What should you do to prepare for continuity" and the correct answer is "Keep my body pure and fresh". This leads me to speculate that Wally might wanna use continuity on us like the Grineer Queen. There's other dialog that hints that he wants to become like us, and don't forget how happy he is at the end of War Within when you drink or keep the Kuva.
Considering how void corruption often manifests as fractal distortions of present matter, I think part of the void's property is that it some sort of "higher" reality from which our reality is project against the "Albrecht membrane" that separates our space-time (what is) from what is not (things that were, will be and never be).
Different realities would therefore be a different perspective/observation of the same higher reality.
I think this is also why Eternalism is symbolized by a cube. Different sides display different realities.
No one does the Warframe lore like you, Siege. Welcome back
i could have worn i was subed after watching an old video of yours and really enjoying your voice and writing! I'm hoping to see more of these! thank you!
This is why this old game is still selling so well. It's just brilliant and you can tell DE is just out to have a lot of fun with this lore.
Oh yeah, did you know that new requiem words have been revealed through the mini quizzes scattered across duviri? I've heard some say the words Wally says at the end of TNW fits in better than some of the ones we knew of since before from the requiem mods.. Any thoughts on this matter? Oh and, I'm also super glad you'll be making more videos on UA-cam again, can't wait for the next one, and I've heard the name of the next quest has been leaked via the ios beta tests.. "The Kalymos Sequence", with the prerequisite being TNW, and I read in another comment that "Kalymos" apparently was the name of Albrecht Entrati's Kavat? Maybe they will delve deeper into the Albrecht Entrati backstory, and that first contact with The Man In The Wall in the future updates, and around tennocon 2023?
Welcome back dude, missed your content. Always enjoyed watching it, hope you'll be sticking around
My dude, it is so good to see you back. Ever since the new war originally dropped I've been waiting for a video to hear your thoughts on all this crazy shit.
1 thing that I always questioned is that practically everyone either did not know who the Drifter was except Hunhow, Ballas, Lotus, and Ordis even though they or somewhat wrong in there assumptions they still very much realize this is the Tenno did the man in the wall do something to people so that only a select few notice what the Drifter is or what I have no clue. Btw glad your back
The reason no-one recognises Drifter is just because they're a different person. Ordis recognises Drifter as the Operator because your DNA is the same, prolly how Lotus and Hunhow know you too
so good to see you again. welcome back another great video as always
HE LIVES!! Glad you’re back, man! You have been sorely missed ❤️
I'm not playing Warframe anymore and even consciously refusing to do so.
But. I'll always be happy to watch your videos! I like hearing your perpective and experiencing the story from your videos is a lot better that in game anyways!
GLAD TO HAVE YOU BACK!
Thank you I'm glad to be back!
Ayy the king is finally back hope you had a good break dude!
I did... and now I have to talk about all this new Warframe lore!
@@TheDsIEGE can’t wait to hear it
Love warframes lore. The way I get my power is through the MIGHTY SEER
good timing and as always, great video. man this open up new perspectives about the main lore in warframe, so many questions! i hope DE cook something good related to this for Tennocon.
Nice to see another dsiege video. As thought-provoking as ever
One thing that annoyed me about the new war quest it confirmed the stuff that we already knew from the few pieces of lore we had, but this perspective is interesting
I always tought the tenno are chosen as the pawns to do the dirty work for him, my theory being that wally needs us so he can see the solar system while hiding from some other god that put him in the void
That god being dead or heavily wounder hence why kuva exist, but since in the voruna story was mentioned that kuva reacted stronger in the void for the orokin to transfer themselves, it made me theorize that kuva is wallys blood
Then again the lore is too open handed to come to conclusion with wally
the finger reactor in the zariman does seem to have some kuva colours, doenst it? and the giant mosquito piercing its tip? to me, kuva is 100% a vital-essence analogue, be it blood, oro, qi, whatever terminology you want
@@IHateNumbersOnNames to me it seems more void than kuva, havent noticed anything that looked like kuva on that finger
You are alive! I'm really happy to see you posting a new video!
Glad to see you are back, I missed seeing your videos about warframe lore and speculation
I’m so glad he’s finally back, feels like it’s been so long
The DSiege is back, baby! I'll be looking forward to your lore videos!
welcome back hopefully you have been well
Thank you so much!!! I felt it was time to make good on that video I owe you all... and then make a bunch more!
Holy shit
After a thousand years.....
The king return!!!
I HAVE RETURNED!!!!
Holy shit, you're alive!
I'm just very glad to see you're back :)
omfg you're alive,dude i was so scared something happened to you,glad to see you back
Thank you and no... Work just took up too much of my focus to do the channel, so I had to make a choice. That being said... I've got the time now. And it seems like I have a lot to work with...
Welcome back mate, i have truly missed watched ur lore videos
He's Back! Glad to watch another one of your videos :)
Damn bro... missed your videos! Glad we can have you again
Bro you’re back😭😭 I needed this
Brooooo! You're back! I have been thinking about you a lot lately actually lol
I think you put it quite well with your analogy of the body and the cells in it. I've thought of the void as a sort of an outside and Wally maybe not as much a manifestation of the Void as a whole, but more of the particular multiverse where we live in. But as we work with our surroundings more than with our insides, so does Wally work with the void instead of its insides, using a "void tool" to have access into itself. I know this kinda takes the idea and runs with it.
But when you said about Lotus being the mother and Wally being the father to the Tenno, I suddenly realized that yeah, it's actually a very classic "duality combining in a completely novel form made of both parents". As in the sentients have no spiritual essence and are completely of the physical world, and Wally being in a way the complete opposite of that.
As a side note, I was kinda disappointed when the two mythos clearly inspiring Kullervo weren't explored more as it'd have been another interesting thing to see. The name of the frame and the story of the crimes are way too obviously of our local (Karelian and Finnish) ancient myths, and the number of crimes (7) and piercing daggers reminded me of the catholic Our Lady of Sorrows, the aspect of Mary where she is pierced by seven swords depicting her seven great sorrows. Maybe it'll rise at a later date. After this many years, I'm not putting anything beyond DE anymore.
aaaaaa the return of the king, man im so happy to hear you again
Hey thank you!!! I'm glad to be back and it means a lot that you like my content that much!!! Plenty more on the way!
@@TheDsIEGE hope so my favorite and the best warframe content creator, just don't overwork yourself ^^
wow thought you were gone ! glad to see you're still here, hope you are well
in the Duviri Paradox, in the open world, you can find a datapad with a question with two answers on it. The datapad eludes to how "The Wall" is the point between reality and unreality, or the Void. To me, this contextualizes Wally's title. "The Man in the Wall" an influential being that is between reality and unreality, time and untime, he knows what is, what has, and what will be. A paradoxal being in himself.
Yep! and I think he made the "changed" tenno children in his image!
“Good and evil” are a matter of perspective. As a example we see the origin, grineer and corpus as bad guys but that’s only because we play from the POV of the Tenno.
We don’t know if the man in the wall is good, bad or neutral. It’s impossible to say; but he is basically our father all things considered
Yay! You’re back!!!! We were so worried about you!!!! ❤
Yes I am!!!! Than you for checking the video out!!!
Yooo you're back! I've been waiting for one of your lore speculation videos so seeing this on my recommended made my day better :))
Omg here he is !I was worried tbh I was like why did he stop posting ?? Finally back
This is still the best lore/speculation channel for Warframe on UA-cam. Glad you're back.
Good to see you post again, to be honest I and probably many people were wondering if you were alive
I thought i was seeing things when i saw your name, relieved to see you back!
Welcome back. Amazing theory as always, and it really got me thinking.
WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN!!! So glad to hear your back.
Doing job stuff but that's over with now... Time to make videos again!
Honestly, I feel like what Duviri revealed about the origin of this land and to by this also possible full extent of Tenno's powers in the void is something worth discussing in the next video
And for this one, well outside of Man in the Wal thing (which is also shaky as DE sound designer when asked about what MITW said mentioned the requiem theory is incorrect) i already had most of these conclusions myself
Duviri helped me finalize a few things I was on the fence with. I've already begun writing a video on Entrati's connection to Duviri, but some other new things seemed to have popped up on duviri recently as well, including a visit from wally while I was in there... Certainly wasn't expecting that. I've definitely got a lot to go over.
I went an listen to it agin since the requiem theory is incorrect and I heard " in the void xata woke " and then he says "I am here " :V
When you zoomed in on The Lotus's smile at the end, I also smiled and audibly pronounced, "Oh shit!"
eyyyy welcome back, glad to see you post again
Idk of this matters BUT i always wondered how come our tenno was the one to make this deal? After all, across all accounts and players and the choices we make for our character's Backstory, they all end up in that shut in classroom. Maybe, each dimension in the eternalist multiverse which died did so because they were the ones who didn't approach wally? Him choosing one universe, the one timeline, where this peculiar Tenno approached him and didn't turn away when confronted with the incomprehensible. The kind of person who could do what was needed in the Man's eyes
I had always tried Warframe but never really got into it, but when you posted this vid i tried it again and got into some story heavy quests and am now loving it.
About the nature of the Man in the Wall, I'd love him being an eldritch abomination just trying to make friends :) - Like a he finally found someone not dying or instantly going mad seeing him and now he's trying his best (in an awkward way) to impress and preserve the Tenno(giving us powers and keeping a future intact where we exist). There's also one line you can hear at the Reliquary Drive if idling as the operator, that makes me think, there's bigger fish out there than Wally ("Something's out there, kiddo... watching us.") and that he's not the villain, or at least not the main threat.
Pretty meta, but I assumed the Tenno not being restricted to one dimension just for the sake of explaining how we can replay missions over and over again, without the NPCs getting any wiser (I mean just how often could Frohd Bek fall for the virus we installed in the Ambulas?). Also going by the single player story missions I assumed, that we are the only Tenno awake in "our" reality - every other WF we encounter, being a visitor from another dimension (and every other Tenno in our reality still asleep on Lua). At least that would explain what allowed Ballas to steam roll the Origin System just by disabling "us", reducing the Tenno influence in this world (Otherwise - I mean how often could he pull the "throw Lotus into the Void" stunt?).
I have been awaiting your return Lore Master :)
Missed you dude good to have you back
man i was not expecting you to come back glad i stayed subbed
I'm glad you did too so thank you! I hope you enjoy!
Welcome back glad to see your alive
Very nice technical explanation. I liked the idea of the both the Tenno and the Man-in-the wall as being in a state of perpetual superposition occupying several states simultaneously. This is actually not the first time this is brought up in the game, as Ordis describes this exact phenomenon when explaining the function of the Void/Requiem Relics. There's got to be a correlation in there somewhere right given the fact the Man, the Tenno and the Relics are all closely related to the Void? I haven't exactly played the quest yet so I'll refrain from any theories.
-------------------
(Ordis' Explanation of Void Relics after installing Void Relic Orbiter segment):
"Void Relics, what a baffling concept."
"Ordis will try to understand Void Relics again:
They say the contents of a Relic are simultaneously this thing, or this thing, or this thing, but also that thing and certainly never just one thing."
"That is, until... until it's exposed to a Void Fissure?"
"And at that point, all the possibilities collapse, each one falling away until the Relic cracks open and exposes one, singular thing."
(Typo: Text:"And at that moment," / Spoken: "Then, against all tenets of logic,") "that thing becomes the only thing the Relic ever contained?!
Pfft... WHAT A LOAD OF- Odis prefers known quantities, thank-you-very-much."
To add on to that the drifter may be from the timeline before the tenno was observed that then expanded to become its own separate timeline
Nice to see you're back, interesting Theory.
YOUR ALIVE!!
Im glad your doing ok sIEGE
I am, and thank you! I got a lot to talk about again, so it's time to come back!
@@TheDsIEGEcan't wait, I felt as though I have been out of touch with warframe, without your speculation on the game.
Great to hear from you again man!
God it's soo good to see you again!
I've been thinking the same thing about the man in the wall being the personification of the void, and so also of the universe since the void sorrounds all of it (i see it as the void being a see and the systems being islands).
I was honestly looking for something from you about a month ago! So glad to have you back man😊
Its nice to have you back
Taking into consideration the events from the War within, the Zeriman incident, the Requiems, and the end of the New War. The MITW's influence on the Tenno can be reflected in the Moon choices throughout the story. Sun's choices are Passionate and hasty, Neutral choices represent Balance and control, and Moon reflects Pragmatism and Idealism. The actions of the Tenno with Sun choices often are brash and irrational. Neutral actions are considerate but controlling, and Moon actions are rational and empathetic.
During the end of the New War, the Lotus was acting as a conduit between us and the MITW during his appearance. Regardless of weather or not you drank the Kuva, It appears that He wants to directly inhabit the Tenno in some form or fasion. However, the Lotus stood in the way and became a vessel instead. The Tenno acts as a bridge between the void and realspace, so i assume that through the Tenno the MITW could physically interact with realspace and accomplish whatever his goal is. The Tenno are able to see the MITW through halucinations that others don't notice, so it would make sense.
Welcome back!!!
OMG Long time 😮 looking forward to a vid about the duviri paradox’s fragments.
Missed u brother hope u doing good used to watch ur vids allot even play with u on monster hunter those where the days :)
Thank you, it's good to be back! I remember Monster Hunter Streams! Hopefully we can make that happen again in the future! I hope you enjoy the vid!
You're alive!!
Yeeeeeeessss! You're back! Let's goooooooooo!🎉
The audio was confirmed to not be requiems by de sound team. To hear what he really says. Just pitch it up and slow it down. Thats what one of the guys on the team had recommended.
I'm glad you're alright my friend.
Thank you! I'm glad you stopped by to watch the video! I hope you enjoy it!
@@TheDsIEGE It's a great video! Always loved your unique thoughts. Not many really get deep into Warframes lore, which is one of the best things about it.
Omg no fucking way he's back 😭!!!!! *WE MISSED YOU*
Thank you for saying what I was thinking- minus the part about the possibility that the other versions of ourselves were weeded out….. I believe this as you’ve described is exactly as what’s going on…. So the man in the wall appearing at the end is meant to confirm even if it’s never made clear if he’s a good or a bad guy….. but him being an aspect of the universe is definitely a possibility.
However I’d rather just label him as a god in the void than an aspect of the universe