I loved much of the UU when it started. There were some bumps. But overall a great relaunch. I have some hopes to see good things with this new re-relaunch.
no, because it's a "bait-and-switch". it uses the ultimate name, but this "ultimate universe" is earth 6160 and has nothing to do with earth 1610. the original ultimate universe was amazing (as long as we ignore ultimates 3 and ultimatum lol)
So Jean Grey wanted to punish Logan for hitting on her, by putting Logan's mind in a body that had ample opportunity to have non consensual sex? With great power comes great responsibility, Jean!
I never regularly read the ultimate universe. Most I read was Ultimate armor wars. Was Wolverine's character in this universe just sex pervert? Between this being insanely creepy, and hearing him watch Pietro and Wanda boink. What the absolute fuck?
"She" deserved it. And yes, she did. It's as bad as when she turned Bobby gay in the mainstream universe so she could vicariously live out her yaoi fantasies.
@@freman007 THEY deserved it. Wolverine for being a creepy perv. Jean Grey for childishly using her powers irresponsibly when there were much better ways to handle that situation, also the part where she didn’t immediately swap spider-man back into his body when she realized what was going on and then apologize for being a horrible person. Also the rest of the ultimate X-Men are pretty terrible people who deserved everything Spider-Man said about them.
@@kingofdragons7 You can with telepathic mind control. Just like Kilgrave can get women to willingly sleep with him. Bobby is straight with various girlfriends for 50 years, suddenly he's gay. Mind control.
@@MegaGearX no, she just found out by reading his mind, he was hiding who he is, mind controlling someone to sleep with you is not the same as changing sexuality, that is impossible
The other underlying issue is the 'Who (if anyone) is it appropriate for an adult in a child's body, or a child in an adult's body, to have sex with?' It is a question that literally never needs to be asked, but comic-book and screenwriters keep asking anyway.
Is a question that somehow came to exist in the real world with Shauna Rae, a 20 something girl with the body of a 12 year old, she has a boyfriend. I don't see anything wrong with their relationship, but people seem to prefer she dies alone or something.
I don't remember the full details but there was a woman who thought she was sleeping with her boyfriend, but it turned out to be his brother. She has him arrested for ra*e. The case was thrown out. It was considered consensual. It was her fault for not knowing was having sex with the wrong brother.
I guess one real world application is what defines maturity and the age of consent, pure physicality or mental awareness? There are plenty of physically capable 20+ year olds who do not have the mental maturity to safely participate in a sexual relationship, and many younger people who might have the mental maturity but should still wait because their physical body isn't ready for it yet. Just like a lot of things, the answer isn't one or another, but a combination of.
@@CasuallyComics Since a new Universe is coming out (?) Why not do a video that explains why everybody in the Ultimateverse were assholes, like seriously even Captain America was a dick sometimes.
It’s kinda funny to look at the panels of Bendis poking fun at how weird the whole body swapping story line is when you know the concept will be reused three different times for the ultimate cartoon
It's especially weird because Bendis was on the writing staff for the show, too. How did he let them adapt the one storyline from the comics that he hated (adapt it 3 different times, no less)?
@@kailevil3444 Season one directly had the wolverine/Peter Parker one, even if they changed the explanation to Mesmero of all people having body swap abilities, season two had Peter exchange body with the Hulk, also by Mesmero, and then the season 3 opening had Loki swap bodies with a temporary Avenger Spidey. Really weird.
The biggest takeaway is, sometime the X-Men make it difficult for humans to accept mutants when they like to abuse their powers from time to time, also Hugh Jackman and Tom Holland doing a freaky friday, I'd watch that as well.
That's pretty much been the problem with Magneto all along. People try to treat him as being in the right or finding ways to turn him into a hero but they overlook the problem that Magneto is basically the worst thing mutants have going for them because he's a poster boy for "Mutants are dangerous and want to kill us all".
It’s why I always said X-Men works better when they are left in their own universe. At least the ultimate univrse was consistent that mutant hate was mutual exclusive to any one with a superpower. But they screwed that up by stating mutants were a man made thing.
@@JohnWilliams-wl9pxthe mutant hate in the ultimate universe was not only bigger but it made even less sense. Tf is the big difference between Spider-Man and a mutant if both are man made? Attempts to create the supersoldier serum
Fun fact: the first ever body swap tale was the short story "the Great Keinplatz Experiment," written by Sherlock Holmes creator Arthur Conan Doyle in Belgravia magazine in 1885. It was about an experiment using hypnosis to see if souls could leave live people. The two subject's souls get reversed, when the souls return to the wrong bodies. Ultimately, they don't tell their wives and families because they are afraid of being assumed insane.
that's actually kind of interesting. Hypnotizing 2 people into believing they're the other person, with all their memories and personality, so are they really just the other person at that point?
This really bothers me because Logan has (in the 616) been repeatedly shown to have no interest in underage girls (although with MJ there is always his weakness for redheads). Also, he's a teacher! Things like this are why I gave the UU a skip.
The Ultimate Universe was so weird to read, tonally, because it was like the whole universe was this edgy grimdark thing...then there was its flagship series of Ultimate Spide-man, which just, wasn't the same way. It was like this weird island of normal rational people in Queen's while the rest of the world was a horrific hellscape. And it absolutely felt that way, because characterisations mostly stayed consistent even in crossovers, so you'd get these dark as hell characters cameoing in Spider-man, and Peter just having to deal with these psychos who were supposedly other heroes.
Well, in FAIRNESS being below the age of consent, you're just talking how a-ok it is that 15-year-olds pose to each other the risk of pregnancy they cannot consent to. Their lives may get destroyed at any moment for all the same reasons, and you go "eh, I can't pin it on any evil man, so let them." That seems to be the ONLY legal basis for such a consept as "consent", when violence and bodily damage fall perfectly under actual, understandable legislation, not just vague moral clauses that no woman gives a second of thought to anyway. Rosemary's Baby had a plot point of the impregnation happening while asleep, but for MJ, that WAS just like using Peter's body while Peter wasn't even able to affirm WHO HE WAS with a second of conversation. So how did SHE ask "consent" during the off-panel act? From who she thought is FIFTEEN by the way. She couldn't consent, but she also did nothing but unconsenting things TO HIM. The legislation exists to FURTHER bring this gap and power imabalance, because more and more of these hoops to run through will AVOID any responsibility of a woman and fall entirely on men.
@@sboinkthelegday3892 I dont know what your trying to say but minors can legally consent to each other but not to adults there are even romeo and juilet laws make it legal for a 2-3 year age gap. It is not legal for adults to consent to teenagers because of the power embalance. Also not having sex with a teen girl is not "man hating" strange you feel that way.
If Jean really wanted Logan to learn something about treating women then Mary Jane and him should've swapped with him. Imagine Mary Jane in Wolverine's body breaking up a bank robbery. It'd be great just to see Wolverine say, "Face tigers, you just hit the Jackpot." Followed by eight panels worth of Bendis speak with a back and forth of "Were you flirting with us? It seems like you were flirting with us." "I was not." "You weren't?" "I was not flirting with you."
It's pretty wild how the whole mind swap thing didn't have that much disturbing implication when I read it back in middle school but now Ultimate Logan just comes across way more creepy than he really should've been.
@@mr.bandicoot2139 I mean dude, if you're well north of 40 (And that's about how long Logan *remembers*, dude was already well into his late 20s if not in his 30s by WWII), 19 might as well be 14.
Even 616/Prime Universe Logan, who also has a thing for Jean Grey, is respectful of her boundaries, and I’m pretty sure she was an adult when they first met in main continuity. Say what you will about 616 Wolverine, but at least he has standards.
@@halfmettlealchemist8076 I very much prefer versions where Logan and Jean are good friends and Jean just reminds Logan of his live interest from xmen origins.
You should also cover the panel during the clone saga where peter punches/ backhands Mary Jane while she was pregnant. It could be an interesting conversation on why Peter was immediately forgiven by MJ and the fandom, but Hank Pym wasn’t, despite doing the exact same thing
Well, Hank Pym was being a jerk, and was totally unapologetic. Peter had just found out he was a clone, and as soon as he did it, he said, "my god! what have I done" and he was truly horrified by what he did.
I think the difference was that, as Sasha has pointed out, Hank Pym was a jerk to Janet prior to the event, even if he wasn't outright abusive. Also, Hank didn't really have much of a personality prior to that time, so it became a defining part of his character, while Peter had a lot more happy memories to look back on.
@@crimefightingspiderAlso it was an accident. Disclaimer that I haven’t read the issue so I could be off, but from what I been told Peter was in the middle of a fight with Venom and Mary Jane got in the middle and accidentally got hit. Which to be fair I think the writer of the Hank slap also said it was meant to be accidental but even that’s the case I think it was a lot less clear than Peter’s case.
Great Job Jean. Logan sure learned a lesson... and Peter... was there. If she really wanted Logan to understand what it's liked to be leered at as a female... I mean, the answer is right there.
As in "everyone but Peter in this universe is a terrible person. And Peter himself is sometimes too" There summed up the whole ultimate universe jokingly.
I feel like the Nightwing panel shouldn't just cover the issue, but delve into his long history of being targeted for assault/harassment, especially when the comics don't frame it as such.
You're right. But here's the thing. In order for that to happen there would need to be writers that can handle that subject with honesty and a skillful hand regarding the matter. Now, how many writers at DC can do that without dropping the ball or how many would even try ? Because I can't think of anyone who might be able to do that unless they hired someone else such as Sam Keith for example.
My brother once looked at me and said "Do you know what I mean when I say Dick Grayson feels like a well written female character". We both laughed so hard our sides hurt.
Hey, it's not just Dick. We need to talk about how DC Comics _repeatedly_ has retconned out Talia's rapes. Jason and Bruce both. They keep having Talia rape the Batfam and then retcon it out to keep her marketable. Jason was so mentally compromised that you cannot call that consent. Damian is a rape baby.
@PosthumanHeresy I remember thinking Talia had a lot of potential as the love interest Bruce eventually gets with. Then, I learned Damian's backstory, and now I'm a Wonder/Bat shipper.
Wasn't this the same Jean Grey who back in volume 1 of Ultimate X-Men went on vacation with Logan, kissed him multiple times and is very strongly implied that she had sex with, all of her own free will and some of that IN FRONT OF HER OWN BOYFRIEND?! AND NOW SHE WANTS TO PLAY THE VICTIM, ALL THE WHILE GETTING SOMEONE WHO HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS PROBLEM INVOLVED?!
So Jean can just swap bodies now? Sure, why not? Idk what she was thinking cuz I promise Logan didn’t learn shit, plus she just screwed over Pete for absolutely no reason.
@@davidgantenbein9362 And Colossus wasn't made of organic metal, he just had a metal skin that was so heavy he had to take drugs to move around in it. Man, it had some crap writing.
The fact that Brian Michael Bendis wrote one of the best explorations of sexual violence in comics and this is... shocking. I know writing one good comic does not bar you from writing a bad one. But how someone could write Alias and this just doesn't compute for me.
The Ultimate Universe started as an interesting premise, and went downhill from there, ending with writing that would have been considered "low-brow" for Marvel Zombies. No need to bring it back. Marvel's New Universe was better, and that had its problems.
I remember reading this when it came out, and it caused discourse with friends back then. On the whole the ultimates universe excited me in concept, then i read a load of the comics and realised i disliked nearly everyone in them, it felt way too mean at times, and creepy at others.
Body-swap stories are a good excuse to have characters reacting in strange ways, e.g. the normally calm and straitlaced character is suddenly doing wild takes.
I like when animated series use it as an excuse to have the actors do impressions of each other. It really disappointed me that Teen Titans didn't have Tara Strong do a Bubbles-like voice when Raven and Starfire swapped. I wanted to hear depressed Starfire talking normally and Robin immediately looks less into her.
While the issue doesn't mention the Wolverine body swap I feel like Ultimate Spider-Man Annual #3 (2005) answers the question of if Wolverine did or didn't sleep with her. With the answer being no he didn't.
I am immediately reminded of an episode of The Naked Gun, titled "The Writer's Barely- Disguised Fetish". Which makes this issues of Ultimate Spidey raise more questions than it answers, especially about Bendis.
Ultimate Wolverine was always a prev: - 200 years old dude stealing Cyclops teenage girlfriend and sleeping with her - spying from the bushes on Quicksilver and Wanda having sex - and... this 😅
I don't know if Ultimate Wolverine slept with MJ. But I do know he made it all the way to Ultimate X-Men #3 (or 4) before explicitly nailing teenage Jean Grey while undercover as an assassin sent to murder Xavier. So....
7:38 If Logan was circumcised at birth, would it grow back once his healing factor kicked in? Or because it was done before hand, would it stay just the collar and helmet, not turtleneck?
I'm really loving this "cursed panel" series of videos! Ultimate Wolverine was always a scumbag/a-hole, but this was a bit much. This humor might have flown in the 70s or 80s but this comic was from 2000. Also, Jean punishes Logan by victimizing Peter (she says she didn't choose that part, but she's the "incredibly powerful psychic", so didn't she)? That's some malarkey. They could have played it out without the "r-word"-ey parts and it would have been so much less problematic.
What kills me is that Ultimate Spider-Man would adapt this storyline and have Peter/Logan swap bodies and again Logan decides to try and hit on a teenage Mary Jane. Never went past bad flirting but like...why...why keep that!?
To quote Superman in Superman issue number 121: "I see. But why?" It would be freakin' hysterical to see the Peter-Logan body swap happen on the big screen though. Seeing Huge Jackman act like Spidey would be a glorious thing. Also, I feel like nobody involved with the creative process for the various Ultimate comics truly thought through their decisions and how those creative choices could and would be perceived by people.
I haven't read this personally, but couldn't one interpret "that thing you tried to do this morning" as the sex act itself (emphasis on the "tried to do")? They didn't actually have sex! Yay! Never mind what was actually in the mind of Brian Michael Bendis. (That's a lot to type, I hope he appreciates it!)
its amazing that Futurama writer Ken Keeler created a theory on the correct way of getting people into their right bodies in the order that they would need to go in
"Mom, what do people mean when they say the comments section?" "It's just a figure of speech - a thing websites used to have in the old days, before we developed the ability to psychically attack people directly."
I remember this issue for Peter calling Jean and by extension the Ultimate X-men a bunch of @$#%@#^@%@. And Colossus - the other Peter - going, "Why am I @^$@$@%^$ ? I was just standing here."
A big part of what I dislike about the comic is... it comes from the ultimate line. Spiderman aside the ultimate universe has everyone basically be much worse people than in the mainline comics. It means I struggle to enjoy anything about the whole thing. This event in particular, well Jean is as much a bad person as Wolverine. She punishes Wolverine in a way that hurts Peter as well. In character for ultimate Jean, but not a good look for a heroic character.
*Lillie takes over Spider-gwen body* If it’s from the ultimate Universe… It’s the ultimate curse. You know that something is about to do down the writers admit it.
If you couldn't find the part of the story where Peter and MJ discuss 'doing it', unless you have a special, censored issue, then it isn't there. I would suggest that there are people who read it into the story because THEY WANTED IT. There are some really sick people out there.
For me, the issues tend towards the fun but with some yikes moments like a lot of comedies from the 2000s and earlier. Although the shocking part for me was remembering that this is not the worst thing Jean Grey in this continuity will do as she will shut down Logan's son's brain and make him go feral in the middle of a city to have justification to go to war. Also, it's not the only time Brian Michael Bendis implies Logan has tried to "be" with a minor as in his New Avengers run when he introduced Squirrel Girl as a babysitter for Danielle Cage it's also heavily implied that they had a relationship and she would go to college until The Unbeatable Squirrel Girl series that happened much later.
I'm getting some bad Revenge of the Nerds vibes here. Then again, I'm not sure I can say anything about bodyswap stories being weird or not due to my pfp.
Body swapping as a concept has always been upsetting to me. Just always creepy. Superior Spider-Man always especially bothered me. IIRC there is a short panel where Otto accesses Peter's nemories of sleeping with MJ and it draws it with Otto's head in the flashback. Mixed with some upsetting descriptions, it sucked.
Superior Spider-Man is absolutely meant to be unsettling to the reader and violating to the character. Definitely feels different than a story where the author seems unaware of how awful it is.
Superior Spider-Man #2. The plot of the issue is literally Doc Ock trying to sexually assault Mary Jane. It should be regarded as one of the most vile and all time worst Spider-Man comics ever but for some reason readers either shrugged it off or lapped up that slop. Superior Spider-Man as a whole should be regarded as one of the worst and most creatively bankrupt Spider-Man stories of all time.
@@227060 Jesus Christ. I haven't gotten there yet (Just recently decided to take the plunge into comics and starting at the beginning of ASM). I just saw that pannel out of context, but if the story is that bad then it is going to be rough when I get there in like a year or two.
You thought that was wrong. Remember, Peter ended up in Otto’s body and had to relive Doctor Octopus banging Aunt May. That’s true evil. That’s why Doctor Octopus will always be Spider-Man’s arch nemesis
I like it in animation as it's fun listening to the voice actors trying to sound the same yet like a completely different person. One of the many reasons why I dislike dubs in general because where I grew up, in scenes like that the translator of the script appears to only have read it and not watched the animation so for example in Donald Duck and Mickey Mouse body swap, the one voicing Donald would keep on voicing him in Mickey's body instead of Mickey's voice actor trying to sound like Donald... 😮💨 But I hate brain swap episodes, like the one of the boys got his brain swapped with a chicken's in Quackpack gave me nightmares for weeks as a kid. Heavenly Delusion did it a little more tastefully, but... But the comic examples people come with here sounds really creepy...
Crazy how whenever afterwards Logan and Peter see each other in public Logan refers to him as his cousin after this and then they just go with calling each other cousins after this
I do like the lines between Cyclops and Jean about switching their minds ("You can do that?" "Just go with it.") It's a very tongue-in-cheek way for the writers to admit they wanted to pull a freaky friday switch and just made up something to justify it.
2:52 *"And as the universe went on, it got **_gruesome_** and really **_edgy_** sometimes... seemingly for no reason!"* Because Bendis. The reason is Brian Michael "Human Thumb" Bendis.
I think when I read the story for the first time (in the long ago) I was more hit with has causal Jean was treating her actions. Like she hadn't just seriously violated Peter. I think I didn't have a issue with MJ because she didn't seem to have a real problem with Peter. Actually now that I think on it this could have been a great story if we switched in part to the X-Men perspective and take it seriously. Imagine if similar events occurred and Jean has to deal with the consequences of casually playing around with their powers and losing the trust of a friend and ally because of it.
I think they were trying to make fun of main continuity Logan's habit of taking young teen girls under his wing. But it takes the right writer to pull of those jokes, and Bendis has never been that kind of writer
I confess, I have no defense at all for what Ultimate Logan pulled here but I found this story hilarious, and even loved the fourth wall breaking Bendis. Maybe I just have low standards but it was so self aware and silly I couldn’t help but be entertained.
I found all of this funny too even knowing it was questionable. Being around Fate fans and liking more insane anime like Super Robots gives you a crazy sense of humor lol
When this issue came out, people on the GameFAQS comics board were asking about it. I lied and said it opened with Bendis drinking from Hawkeye’s skull and people believed it. One of my biggest internet achievements.
After that hint of a portentous pause after saying "a New Universe," one can only hope you're contemplating an exploration of Marvel's first experiment with escaping its continuity back in 1986. Well, I do at least.
Classically MARVELOUS! Well done and thank you ❣️! The greatest fear is not that we will fail, but that we will succeed beyond our wildest imagination! This body swap trope endures because it is the essence of “FAN FICTION”. I have wondered about if Read Richards found himself in TONY STARKS BODY?!
All things considered, it probably wouldn't amount to much on its own because at the end of the day Reed Richard's true superpower is his brain anyway. You'd have to come up with other story elements to serve as the true obstacles in order to actually have anything of real substance.
I think it says a lot about the approach writers took with the ultimate universe when Brian Mendis feels the need to justify and lampshade this “silly” story when like… this is a completely average comic book story. I’m sorry but did he think fetus vampire carnage sucking Gwen Stacy to death was high art but *THIS* he needed to explain? 💀💀💀 The cringiest thing about this story is Wolverine trying to molest teenage girls and I don’t know if they even thought about that one. (Which btw, I really hate to look back and realize how grossly normalize that was at the time)
14:42 Peter could say "Sure. Just remind me about it whenever you want to do it. I won't bring it up again." That way, he doesn't need to know what it is. She'll tell him if or when she wants to.
Seems extremely unlikely that any shagging took place (or anything close).... May was downstairs and they were getting ready for school. If Peter and MJ didn't already have a sexual relationship at this point (which MJ seems to suggest they didn't at the end), it's VERY unlikely that'd be the time/place she'd opt for it to start.
I suspect that the interaction was intended to be nothing more than a kiss and ass-grab, which was crossing the line. But then, Ultimate Wolverine was all about line-crossing. I didn't really like him, but that could be said of most of the Ultimate Universe, except for Ultimate Captain America. Frankly I found UCA to be far closer to my conception of a WW2 vet dumped into the modern day than the mainstream one. Although mainstream Cap does really have a history going back sixty years, even if, in continuity, he was only unfrozen a handful of years ago.
16:01 yeah there are ton of fetish body swap stories. I like the idea of a psychological body swap story that goes into that side of it, but most stories out there turn weird and fetishy
Going by just what's presented in this video, I think the question of "Did they actually do anything?" is answered by that final bit of "Can we not do that thing you **tried** to do till we're older". "Tried" being the key word here, Wolverine certainly tried to do 'something', but what unspecified thing he tried to do did not actually happen.
INTJ-someone once told me that it's dangerous to confuse fantasy with reality, you may jump off a roof thinking you can fly. I say it's even more dangerous to confuse reality with fantasy, you may send someone to jail for killing a character in a videogame, movie, or book. the point is fantasy is fantasy and reality is reality both have their own rules and never should these rule cross over into the other. we shouldn't hate someone because their idea of a fun fantasy disturbs you, no, the only time anyone should have real consequences is when someone does something in real life.
I haven't read this but I love body-swap and fun tropes like that. Logan Peter almost feels kind of like a sleezey-anime-protagonist. You know the type. As for liking it or not, we all like things that have issues. It's not a red flag
It was my understanding that Wolverine has always been a little bit of lecherous old man. So this is entirely on brand for him. Not sure it works as a gag (in execution) but for the actual story it almost feels unavoidable.
Unrelated to this but Miles comes from the ultimate universe, has he ever… talked about some of that stuff in his own runs. Like… Wanda and Pietrov dating was public, does Miles ever bring that up or… assume that’s also the case in 616 universe?
Either he doesn't know or someone is keeping him in the dark. Look what Peter Parker goes through on a regular basis, do you want Miles to deal with even 1/3 of that kind of headache ? Because you might want to sign that boy up for some therapy sessions.
With a few small changes feel things could have gone better: If Jean wanted to teach a lesson then teach one that makes sense. Like maybe spiderman was said to have thought wolverine was cool and jean getting annoyed with both of them. Or say power got out of control so didn't mean for this to happen. Have her maybe be somewhat less annoyed once an unknown person is dragged into it. Though would make more sense if a villain did it. Have mj know or acknowledge something is up. Have the last line if you want a pervery wolverine be can we try that kiss when we are older. Feel would be a bit lighter than just being anything that happened as would be as dark as you want it rather than a too ambiguous. Maybe throw in a villain so both can fight together. Doesn't have to be a serious battle but gives them more to do with different powers. I understand if people find what wolverine did bad I understand. But feel was a joke that didn't land rather than malicious but not justifying it. Just like the intro of Bendis choking someone, regular context that is battery and being an abusive work enviroment but we know its a joke. I know the ultimate universe everyone can be wtf crazy but feel this was rushed or a bit of a lazy job. Switching bodies could have done more, at least i think so. Also if you have ready this far what body swaps would you be interested to see.
I knew of this story because of its take on the Ultimate Spider-Man animated series, but after seeing the comic panels that inspired that episode, I have to totally agree with Spider-Man that some of the members in the X-Men are part of the reason why there's so much discrimination against mutants, because you have people like Wolverine flirting and sleeping around with women which in turn cause a bunch of men to be salty and angry, and then you have people like Jean Grey that do stuff like in this story, where they are basically showing how powerful and confident they are because of their mutations, by resorting to do petty stuff and messing with humanity, instead of handling stuff like Spider-Man where even as he is in another dude's body, he still tries to help people and do the right thing, even if he still wasn't used to another person's body, but that's what makes Spider-Man one of the better heroes for Marvel.
Man. I read these comics before I was even in high school and I don't think I really got what was happening. I was old enough to understand MJ hot, Wolverine hot, Wolverine find cheerleader hot, but I didn't really get that it was inappropriate because it was hard for me to categorize the characters as anything but 'older' to me. A 30 year old hitting on a sixteen year old in the story didn't register as anything other than older people hitting on each other. Looking back as an adult it does creep me about a bit but I think the Peter in Logan's body is the absolute best part of the story and some great comedy.
I have been a fan of Wolverine since the late 80s, probably the millionth. It looks like a great story. Love the commentary. Also, has anyone ever said you look like a character from My Hero Acadamia? No disrespect intended.
Are you looking forward to/enjoying the new Ultimate Universe?
I loved much of the UU when it started. There were some bumps. But overall a great relaunch. I have some hopes to see good things with this new re-relaunch.
Yes, with great interest.
no, because it's a "bait-and-switch". it uses the ultimate name, but this "ultimate universe" is earth 6160 and has nothing to do with earth 1610.
the original ultimate universe was amazing (as long as we ignore ultimates 3 and ultimatum lol)
"Peter and MJ married with kids" has been done twice already, so...I just can't muster any energy for this.
No Ultimate Universe! Reboot the Star Brand universe!
So Jean Grey wanted to punish Logan for hitting on her, by putting Logan's mind in a body that had ample opportunity to have non consensual sex?
With great power comes great responsibility, Jean!
Not a philosophy embraced in the Ultimate Universe.
Plus Jean herself is a teenager in that series...
Telepaths in the Marvel universe have no sense of responsibility. That's why they constantly violate ethics left and right :D
I never regularly read the ultimate universe. Most I read was Ultimate armor wars. Was Wolverine's character in this universe just sex pervert? Between this being insanely creepy, and hearing him watch Pietro and Wanda boink. What the absolute fuck?
Ah old Ultimate Universe
Where almost everyone is terrible person
Don't forget the abundance of Cool Guy goatees.
well maybe the new ultimate universe will be better.
@@crimefightingspideri hope it bring the best aspects back.
That’s what made it kind of fun for me. Not the situation in the video of course but other things.
Well except for Peter and Thor.
Spider-Man cussing Jean Grey out is the best part of this story. Cause they deserved EVERYTHING he said to them.
"She" deserved it.
And yes, she did.
It's as bad as when she turned Bobby gay in the mainstream universe so she could vicariously live out her yaoi fantasies.
@@freman007 THEY deserved it.
Wolverine for being a creepy perv. Jean Grey for childishly using her powers irresponsibly when there were much better ways to handle that situation, also the part where she didn’t immediately swap spider-man back into his body when she realized what was going on and then apologize for being a horrible person. Also the rest of the ultimate X-Men are pretty terrible people who deserved everything Spider-Man said about them.
@@freman007she didn't turn Bobby gay lmao, you can't turn someone gay
@@kingofdragons7 You can with telepathic mind control. Just like Kilgrave can get women to willingly sleep with him. Bobby is straight with various girlfriends for 50 years, suddenly he's gay. Mind control.
@@MegaGearX no, she just found out by reading his mind, he was hiding who he is, mind controlling someone to sleep with you is not the same as changing sexuality, that is impossible
The other underlying issue is the 'Who (if anyone) is it appropriate for an adult in a child's body, or a child in an adult's body, to have sex with?' It is a question that literally never needs to be asked, but comic-book and screenwriters keep asking anyway.
Is a question that somehow came to exist in the real world with Shauna Rae, a 20 something girl with the body of a 12 year old, she has a boyfriend. I don't see anything wrong with their relationship, but people seem to prefer she dies alone or something.
I don't remember the full details but there was a woman who thought she was sleeping with her boyfriend, but it turned out to be his brother. She has him arrested for ra*e. The case was thrown out. It was considered consensual. It was her fault for not knowing was having sex with the wrong brother.
Big. They had to go there. But at least Jack didn’t. I think.
I guess one real world application is what defines maturity and the age of consent, pure physicality or mental awareness? There are plenty of physically capable 20+ year olds who do not have the mental maturity to safely participate in a sexual relationship, and many younger people who might have the mental maturity but should still wait because their physical body isn't ready for it yet. Just like a lot of things, the answer isn't one or another, but a combination of.
The safest body swap stories are the Freaky Fridays or the ones with Father/Son swapping.
Ah yes, Sasha’s cursed panel series. The… gift? That keeps on giving.
Lol I'm having such a good time with it
@@CasuallyComicsSame.
I do like them
@@CasuallyComics Since a new Universe is coming out (?) Why not do a video that explains why everybody in the Ultimateverse were assholes, like seriously even Captain America was a dick sometimes.
It’s kinda funny to look at the panels of Bendis poking fun at how weird the whole body swapping story line is when you know the concept will be reused three different times for the ultimate cartoon
It was? Uh, I didn't remember that.
It's especially weird because Bendis was on the writing staff for the show, too. How did he let them adapt the one storyline from the comics that he hated (adapt it 3 different times, no less)?
@@kailevil3444 Season one directly had the wolverine/Peter Parker one, even if they changed the explanation to Mesmero of all people having body swap abilities, season two had Peter exchange body with the Hulk, also by Mesmero, and then the season 3 opening had Loki swap bodies with a temporary Avenger Spidey. Really weird.
@@oosbeckanderson3199 Oh! Now I remember those episodes! Thank you for telling.
@@oosbeckanderson3199loved those episodes as a kid
The biggest takeaway is, sometime the X-Men make it difficult for humans to accept mutants when they like to abuse their powers from time to time, also Hugh Jackman and Tom Holland doing a freaky friday, I'd watch that as well.
That's pretty much been the problem with Magneto all along. People try to treat him as being in the right or finding ways to turn him into a hero but they overlook the problem that Magneto is basically the worst thing mutants have going for them because he's a poster boy for "Mutants are dangerous and want to kill us all".
It’s why I always said X-Men works better when they are left in their own universe.
At least the ultimate univrse was consistent that mutant hate was mutual exclusive to any one with a superpower. But they screwed that up by stating mutants were a man made thing.
@@JohnWilliams-wl9pxthe mutant hate in the ultimate universe was not only bigger but it made even less sense. Tf is the big difference between Spider-Man and a mutant if both are man made? Attempts to create the supersoldier serum
Fun fact: the first ever body swap tale was the short story "the Great Keinplatz Experiment," written by Sherlock Holmes creator Arthur Conan Doyle in Belgravia magazine in 1885. It was about an experiment using hypnosis to see if souls could leave live people. The two subject's souls get reversed, when the souls return to the wrong bodies. Ultimately, they don't tell their wives and families because they are afraid of being assumed insane.
that's actually kind of interesting. Hypnotizing 2 people into believing they're the other person, with all their memories and personality, so are they really just the other person at that point?
This really bothers me because Logan has (in the 616) been repeatedly shown to have no interest in underage girls (although with MJ there is always his weakness for redheads). Also, he's a teacher! Things like this are why I gave the UU a skip.
The ultimate universe may have been pretty crazy, but USM was very good, despite this story.
The Ultimate Universe was so weird to read, tonally, because it was like the whole universe was this edgy grimdark thing...then there was its flagship series of Ultimate Spide-man, which just, wasn't the same way. It was like this weird island of normal rational people in Queen's while the rest of the world was a horrific hellscape. And it absolutely felt that way, because characterisations mostly stayed consistent even in crossovers, so you'd get these dark as hell characters cameoing in Spider-man, and Peter just having to deal with these psychos who were supposedly other heroes.
In fairness, from Logan's perspective pretty much every woman is underage.
Well, in FAIRNESS being below the age of consent, you're just talking how a-ok it is that 15-year-olds pose to each other the risk of pregnancy they cannot consent to. Their lives may get destroyed at any moment for all the same reasons, and you go "eh, I can't pin it on any evil man, so let them."
That seems to be the ONLY legal basis for such a consept as "consent", when violence and bodily damage fall perfectly under actual, understandable legislation, not just vague moral clauses that no woman gives a second of thought to anyway. Rosemary's Baby had a plot point of the impregnation happening while asleep, but for MJ, that WAS just like using Peter's body while Peter wasn't even able to affirm WHO HE WAS with a second of conversation. So how did SHE ask "consent" during the off-panel act? From who she thought is FIFTEEN by the way. She couldn't consent, but she also did nothing but unconsenting things TO HIM.
The legislation exists to FURTHER bring this gap and power imabalance, because more and more of these hoops to run through will AVOID any responsibility of a woman and fall entirely on men.
@@sboinkthelegday3892
I dont know what your trying to say but minors can legally consent to each other but not to adults there are even romeo and juilet laws make it legal for a 2-3 year age gap. It is not legal for adults to consent to teenagers because of the power embalance. Also not having sex with a teen girl is
not "man hating" strange you
feel that way.
"Forget it, Jake. It's the Ultimate Universe."
It would have ended perfectly with the panel of Spiderman screaming out of frustration at the X-Men.
That panel is a bit vindicating.
If Jean really wanted Logan to learn something about treating women then Mary Jane and him should've swapped with him. Imagine Mary Jane in Wolverine's body breaking up a bank robbery. It'd be great just to see Wolverine say, "Face tigers, you just hit the Jackpot."
Followed by eight panels worth of Bendis speak with a back and forth of "Were you flirting with us? It seems like you were flirting with us."
"I was not."
"You weren't?"
"I was not flirting with you."
So.. not Freaky Friday but Hot Chick instead?
@@RickReasonnz Exactly! I was trying to remember the name of the film!
You just made it even creepier.
You watched this entire video, and you had the bright idea of putting Ultimate Wolverine into a teenage girl’s body.. you can’t be that tone deaf.
I don't think that's any better.
It's pretty wild how the whole mind swap thing didn't have that much disturbing implication when I read it back in middle school but now Ultimate Logan just comes across way more creepy than he really should've been.
I mean literally his first storyline was about him sleeping with teenager Jean Grey. Dude has issues.
@@KurotaisaTechnically, she was 19ish in that issue but I get what your saying.
@@mr.bandicoot2139 I mean dude, if you're well north of 40 (And that's about how long Logan *remembers*, dude was already well into his late 20s if not in his 30s by WWII), 19 might as well be 14.
Even 616/Prime Universe Logan, who also has a thing for Jean Grey, is respectful of her boundaries, and I’m pretty sure she was an adult when they first met in main continuity. Say what you will about 616 Wolverine, but at least he has standards.
@@halfmettlealchemist8076 I very much prefer versions where Logan and Jean are good friends and Jean just reminds Logan of his live interest from xmen origins.
You should also cover the panel during the clone saga where peter punches/ backhands Mary Jane while she was pregnant.
It could be an interesting conversation on why Peter was immediately forgiven by MJ and the fandom, but Hank Pym wasn’t, despite doing the exact same thing
Well, Hank Pym was being a jerk, and was totally unapologetic. Peter had just found out he was a clone, and as soon as he did it, he said, "my god! what have I done" and he was truly horrified by what he did.
I think the difference was that, as Sasha has pointed out, Hank Pym was a jerk to Janet prior to the event, even if he wasn't outright abusive. Also, Hank didn't really have much of a personality prior to that time, so it became a defining part of his character, while Peter had a lot more happy memories to look back on.
@@crimefightingspiderAlso it was an accident. Disclaimer that I haven’t read the issue so I could be off, but from what I been told Peter was in the middle of a fight with Venom and Mary Jane got in the middle and accidentally got hit.
Which to be fair I think the writer of the Hank slap also said it was meant to be accidental but even that’s the case I think it was a lot less clear than Peter’s case.
@@freman007 very true.
Marvel was repeatedly slapping it's audience throughout. Some of us forgave them, others...
Violence, sex, cannibalism and serious mental problems. The ultimate universe in a nutshell.
The early 2000s, the era of giving characters mental health issues but not specifying what.
@@TeruteruBozusama Aka giving them all of them.
Great Job Jean. Logan sure learned a lesson... and Peter... was there.
If she really wanted Logan to understand what it's liked to be leered at as a female... I mean, the answer is right there.
Brian,should’ve put that disclaimer at the front of his superman run as well, and saved us a ton of trouble.
Okay I actually burst out laughing at this comment. I guess we should have taken all those Bendis is Coming ads as a threat.
@@booksvsmovies i did.
As in "everyone but Peter in this universe is a terrible person. And Peter himself is sometimes too"
There summed up the whole ultimate universe jokingly.
Jean Grey grossly misusing her powers to fuck with peoples brains is a theme that just keeps on happening too.
I feel like the Nightwing panel shouldn't just cover the issue, but delve into his long history of being targeted for assault/harassment, especially when the comics don't frame it as such.
You're right. But here's the thing. In order for that to happen there would need to be writers that can handle that subject with honesty and a skillful hand regarding the matter.
Now, how many writers at DC can do that without dropping the ball or how many would even try ?
Because I can't think of anyone who might be able to do that unless they hired someone else such as Sam Keith for example.
My brother once looked at me and said "Do you know what I mean when I say Dick Grayson feels like a well written female character". We both laughed so hard our sides hurt.
@@NegaHumanX Whoa. That hits hard.
Hey, it's not just Dick. We need to talk about how DC Comics _repeatedly_ has retconned out Talia's rapes. Jason and Bruce both. They keep having Talia rape the Batfam and then retcon it out to keep her marketable. Jason was so mentally compromised that you cannot call that consent. Damian is a rape baby.
@PosthumanHeresy I remember thinking Talia had a lot of potential as the love interest Bruce eventually gets with. Then, I learned Damian's backstory, and now I'm a Wonder/Bat shipper.
Wasn't this the same Jean Grey who back in volume 1 of Ultimate X-Men went on vacation with Logan, kissed him multiple times and is very strongly implied that she had sex with, all of her own free will and some of that IN FRONT OF HER OWN BOYFRIEND?! AND NOW SHE WANTS TO PLAY THE VICTIM, ALL THE WHILE GETTING SOMEONE WHO HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS PROBLEM INVOLVED?!
So Jean can just swap bodies now? Sure, why not? Idk what she was thinking cuz I promise Logan didn’t learn shit, plus she just screwed over Pete for absolutely no reason.
This was Jean from the old Ultimate universe, not the normal Jean. As far as I remember, this Jean was basically as powerful as the Phoenix.
@@davidgantenbein9362
And Colossus wasn't made of organic metal, he just had a metal skin that was so heavy he had to take drugs to move around in it.
Man, it had some crap writing.
@@freman007 Don’t tell me, Ultimatum soured me for years on the concept of reading any comics.
2:18 Peter being happy, grown up and with children? No wonder it's another universe 😂
The fact that Nick Lowe came up with this story arc says it all, really. Man's a menace.
Dude has an MJ preferring other men fetish or something.
The fact that Brian Michael Bendis wrote one of the best explorations of sexual violence in comics and this is... shocking. I know writing one good comic does not bar you from writing a bad one. But how someone could write Alias and this just doesn't compute for me.
Years ago I remember discovering the panel of the blob eating the wasp and it scarred me for life.
It’s from the comic that made me stop reading comics for a couple of years …
The Ultimate Universe started as an interesting premise, and went downhill from there, ending with writing that would have been considered "low-brow" for Marvel Zombies.
No need to bring it back. Marvel's New Universe was better, and that had its problems.
Would this be worse than the time the 616 Jean turned Iceman gay? This time she's messing with more than 1 person's mind.
The inappropriate, uncomfortable, never-really-addressed aspect reminds me of the body-swap episode of Eureka!
I remember reading this when it came out, and it caused discourse with friends back then. On the whole the ultimates universe excited me in concept, then i read a load of the comics and realised i disliked nearly everyone in them, it felt way too mean at times, and creepy at others.
Body-swap stories are a good excuse to have characters reacting in strange ways, e.g. the normally calm and straitlaced character is suddenly doing wild takes.
I like when animated series use it as an excuse to have the actors do impressions of each other. It really disappointed me that Teen Titans didn't have Tara Strong do a Bubbles-like voice when Raven and Starfire swapped. I wanted to hear depressed Starfire talking normally and Robin immediately looks less into her.
Marvel pre ultimate universe: “too much continuity. “
Current Marvel: “what the fuck is continuity? “
While the issue doesn't mention the Wolverine body swap I feel like Ultimate Spider-Man Annual #3 (2005) answers the question of if Wolverine did or didn't sleep with her.
With the answer being no he didn't.
Yeah, that issue implies nothing happened with MJ and Peter's body, at least. But that raises the question of what did happen?
@@g.a.2997
Kiss and ass-grab, probably.
I am immediately reminded of an episode of The Naked Gun, titled "The Writer's Barely- Disguised Fetish". Which makes this issues of Ultimate Spidey raise more questions than it answers, especially about Bendis.
Ultimate Wolverine was always a prev:
- 200 years old dude stealing Cyclops teenage girlfriend and sleeping with her
- spying from the bushes on Quicksilver and Wanda having sex
- and... this 😅
To be fair Logan was sleeping with an 18yo jean grey in this comic while being over 100 years old 😅
I don't know if Ultimate Wolverine slept with MJ. But I do know he made it all the way to Ultimate X-Men #3 (or 4) before explicitly nailing teenage Jean Grey while undercover as an assassin sent to murder Xavier. So....
Ultimate Wolverine needed to be stopped lol
@@CasuallyComics the whole Ultimate Universe need to be stopped, for real 😅
It's quietly impressive that you managed to capture the right voice for Peter Logan and Logan Peter. Like awkward gruffness and aggressive nerdiness.
7:38 If Logan was circumcised at birth, would it grow back once his healing factor kicked in? Or because it was done before hand, would it stay just the collar and helmet, not turtleneck?
I'm really loving this "cursed panel" series of videos!
Ultimate Wolverine was always a scumbag/a-hole, but this was a bit much. This humor might have flown in the 70s or 80s but this comic was from 2000. Also, Jean punishes Logan by victimizing Peter (she says she didn't choose that part, but she's the "incredibly powerful psychic", so didn't she)? That's some malarkey. They could have played it out without the "r-word"-ey parts and it would have been so much less problematic.
What kills me is that Ultimate Spider-Man would adapt this storyline and have Peter/Logan swap bodies and again Logan decides to try and hit on a teenage Mary Jane.
Never went past bad flirting but like...why...why keep that!?
To quote Superman in Superman issue number 121: "I see. But why?" It would be freakin' hysterical to see the Peter-Logan body swap happen on the big screen though. Seeing Huge Jackman act like Spidey would be a glorious thing. Also, I feel like nobody involved with the creative process for the various Ultimate comics truly thought through their decisions and how those creative choices could and would be perceived by people.
I haven't read this personally, but couldn't one interpret "that thing you tried to do this morning" as the sex act itself (emphasis on the "tried to do")? They didn't actually have sex! Yay! Never mind what was actually in the mind of Brian Michael Bendis. (That's a lot to type, I hope he appreciates it!)
Brian Michael Bendis. You have to use all three names, like Lee Harvey Oswald.
its amazing that Futurama writer Ken Keeler created a theory on the correct way of getting people into their right bodies in the order that they would need to go in
"Mom, what do people mean when they say the comments section?"
"It's just a figure of speech - a thing websites used to have in the old days, before we developed the ability to psychically attack people directly."
Bendis has done some F-ed up stories using Jean Gray's powers. Here's looking at you outting suddenly gay Bobby Drake.
I remember this issue for Peter calling Jean and by extension the Ultimate X-men a bunch of @$#%@#^@%@. And Colossus - the other Peter - going, "Why am I @^$@$@%^$ ? I was just standing here."
During superior spider-man Otto was in peter's body, and we all know that aunt may and doc Ock used to have a thing...
Ultimate Jean and Wolverine were villains the writers wouldn't acknowledge as such.
This is insane. As usual, learned something new. I appreciate it!
Ahh, so jean outing Bobby has a history. This girl has always been messy 😅
I love the redirect finger point. And why is Kitty Pryde the only one to answer phones or the door at the X mansion?!
A big part of what I dislike about the comic is... it comes from the ultimate line. Spiderman aside the ultimate universe has everyone basically be much worse people than in the mainline comics. It means I struggle to enjoy anything about the whole thing.
This event in particular, well Jean is as much a bad person as Wolverine. She punishes Wolverine in a way that hurts Peter as well. In character for ultimate Jean, but not a good look for a heroic character.
*Lillie takes over Spider-gwen body*
If it’s from the ultimate Universe… It’s the ultimate curse.
You know that something is about to do down the writers admit it.
If you couldn't find the part of the story where Peter and MJ discuss 'doing it', unless you have a special, censored issue, then it isn't there. I would suggest that there are people who read it into the story because THEY WANTED IT.
There are some really sick people out there.
For me, the issues tend towards the fun but with some yikes moments like a lot of comedies from the 2000s and earlier. Although the shocking part for me was remembering that this is not the worst thing Jean Grey in this continuity will do as she will shut down Logan's son's brain and make him go feral in the middle of a city to have justification to go to war. Also, it's not the only time Brian Michael Bendis implies Logan has tried to "be" with a minor as in his New Avengers run when he introduced Squirrel Girl as a babysitter for Danielle Cage it's also heavily implied that they had a relationship and she would go to college until The Unbeatable Squirrel Girl series that happened much later.
I'm getting some bad Revenge of the Nerds vibes here. Then again, I'm not sure I can say anything about bodyswap stories being weird or not due to my pfp.
Body swapping as a concept has always been upsetting to me. Just always creepy. Superior Spider-Man always especially bothered me. IIRC there is a short panel where Otto accesses Peter's nemories of sleeping with MJ and it draws it with Otto's head in the flashback. Mixed with some upsetting descriptions, it sucked.
Superior Spider-Man is absolutely meant to be unsettling to the reader and violating to the character. Definitely feels different than a story where the author seems unaware of how awful it is.
Superior Spider-Man #2. The plot of the issue is literally Doc Ock trying to sexually assault Mary Jane. It should be regarded as one of the most vile and all time worst Spider-Man comics ever but for some reason readers either shrugged it off or lapped up that slop. Superior Spider-Man as a whole should be regarded as one of the worst and most creatively bankrupt Spider-Man stories of all time.
@@227060 Jesus Christ. I haven't gotten there yet (Just recently decided to take the plunge into comics and starting at the beginning of ASM). I just saw that pannel out of context, but if the story is that bad then it is going to be rough when I get there in like a year or two.
You thought that was wrong. Remember, Peter ended up in Otto’s body and had to relive Doctor Octopus banging Aunt May. That’s true evil. That’s why Doctor Octopus will always be Spider-Man’s arch nemesis
I like it in animation as it's fun listening to the voice actors trying to sound the same yet like a completely different person. One of the many reasons why I dislike dubs in general because where I grew up, in scenes like that the translator of the script appears to only have read it and not watched the animation so for example in Donald Duck and Mickey Mouse body swap, the one voicing Donald would keep on voicing him in Mickey's body instead of Mickey's voice actor trying to sound like Donald... 😮💨
But I hate brain swap episodes, like the one of the boys got his brain swapped with a chicken's in Quackpack gave me nightmares for weeks as a kid. Heavenly Delusion did it a little more tastefully, but...
But the comic examples people come with here sounds really creepy...
Crazy how whenever afterwards Logan and Peter see each other in public Logan refers to him as his cousin after this and then they just go with calling each other cousins after this
This was adapted into the ultimate Spider-Man cartoon
I still think the fact that Bagley draws Bendis to just look like a grownup Kenny Kong is one of the funniest things ever
"I ended up in the ultimate universe" say no more
I do like the lines between Cyclops and Jean about switching their minds ("You can do that?" "Just go with it.") It's a very tongue-in-cheek way for the writers to admit they wanted to pull a freaky friday switch and just made up something to justify it.
2:52 *"And as the universe went on, it got **_gruesome_** and really **_edgy_** sometimes... seemingly for no reason!"* Because Bendis. The reason is Brian Michael "Human Thumb" Bendis.
18:55 they were forced to be more creative since it’s a family friendly show and couldn’t talk about explicit material and it was more fun
I think when I read the story for the first time (in the long ago) I was more hit with has causal Jean was treating her actions. Like she hadn't just seriously violated Peter. I think I didn't have a issue with MJ because she didn't seem to have a real problem with Peter. Actually now that I think on it this could have been a great story if we switched in part to the X-Men perspective and take it seriously. Imagine if similar events occurred and Jean has to deal with the consequences of casually playing around with their powers and losing the trust of a friend and ally because of it.
I think they were trying to make fun of main continuity Logan's habit of taking young teen girls under his wing.
But it takes the right writer to pull of those jokes, and Bendis has never been that kind of writer
I confess, I have no defense at all for what Ultimate Logan pulled here but I found this story hilarious, and even loved the fourth wall breaking Bendis. Maybe I just have low standards but it was so self aware and silly I couldn’t help but be entertained.
With Bendis, low standards always helps.
I found all of this funny too even knowing it was questionable. Being around Fate fans and liking more insane anime like Super Robots gives you a crazy sense of humor lol
When this issue came out, people on the GameFAQS comics board were asking about it. I lied and said it opened with Bendis drinking from Hawkeye’s skull and people believed it. One of my biggest internet achievements.
I, for one, enjoy the use of the term "make whoopie".
After that hint of a portentous pause after saying "a New Universe," one can only hope you're contemplating an exploration of Marvel's first experiment with escaping its continuity back in 1986. Well, I do at least.
Classically MARVELOUS! Well done and thank you ❣️! The greatest fear is not that we will fail, but that we will succeed beyond our wildest imagination! This body swap trope endures because it is the essence of “FAN FICTION”. I have wondered about if Read Richards found himself in TONY STARKS BODY?!
All things considered, it probably wouldn't amount to much on its own because at the end of the day Reed Richard's true superpower is his brain anyway. You'd have to come up with other story elements to serve as the true obstacles in order to actually have anything of real substance.
I forgot how much of a creepy perv wolverine was in the ultimate universe.
I think it says a lot about the approach writers took with the ultimate universe when Brian Mendis feels the need to justify and lampshade this “silly” story when like… this is a completely average comic book story.
I’m sorry but did he think fetus vampire carnage sucking Gwen Stacy to death was high art but *THIS* he needed to explain? 💀💀💀
The cringiest thing about this story is Wolverine trying to molest teenage girls and I don’t know if they even thought about that one. (Which btw, I really hate to look back and realize how grossly normalize that was at the time)
14:42 Peter could say "Sure. Just remind me about it whenever you want to do it. I won't bring it up again."
That way, he doesn't need to know what it is. She'll tell him if or when she wants to.
Seems extremely unlikely that any shagging took place (or anything close).... May was downstairs and they were getting ready for school. If Peter and MJ didn't already have a sexual relationship at this point (which MJ seems to suggest they didn't at the end), it's VERY unlikely that'd be the time/place she'd opt for it to start.
I suspect that the interaction was intended to be nothing more than a kiss and ass-grab, which was crossing the line. But then, Ultimate Wolverine was all about line-crossing. I didn't really like him, but that could be said of most of the Ultimate Universe, except for Ultimate Captain America.
Frankly I found UCA to be far closer to my conception of a WW2 vet dumped into the modern day than the mainstream one. Although mainstream Cap does really have a history going back sixty years, even if, in continuity, he was only unfrozen a handful of years ago.
The show changed how they swap bodies too
16:01 yeah there are ton of fetish body swap stories. I like the idea of a psychological body swap story that goes into that side of it, but most stories out there turn weird and fetishy
Going by just what's presented in this video, I think the question of "Did they actually do anything?" is answered by that final bit of "Can we not do that thing you **tried** to do till we're older".
"Tried" being the key word here, Wolverine certainly tried to do 'something', but what unspecified thing he tried to do did not actually happen.
INTJ-someone once told me that it's dangerous to confuse fantasy with reality, you may jump off a roof thinking you can fly. I say it's even more dangerous to confuse reality with fantasy, you may send someone to jail for killing a character in a videogame, movie, or book. the point is fantasy is fantasy and reality is reality both have their own rules and never should these rule cross over into the other. we shouldn't hate someone because their idea of a fun fantasy disturbs you, no, the only time anyone should have real consequences is when someone does something in real life.
I choose to belive that the "Thing" that wolverine wanted to do with MJ, that she wanted to be older for, was set up a 401k.
Headcanon Accepted.
-> Logan was thinking long-term (in case the swap was permanent & irreversible), as he will NOT go through highschool.
So far I'm super loving the cursed panel series
BMB writing a woman to be a horrible person that deserves all the abuse hurled at them?
Shocking...
I'm really enjoying these Cursed Panel videos.
I haven't read this but I love body-swap and fun tropes like that. Logan Peter almost feels kind of like a sleezey-anime-protagonist. You know the type. As for liking it or not, we all like things that have issues. It's not a red flag
That's the first time I've ever heard anyone use the "Giant Sized Man Thing" reference so skillfully.
I never read this storyline but it was interesting. Another good video.
It was my understanding that Wolverine has always been a little bit of lecherous old man. So this is entirely on brand for him. Not sure it works as a gag (in execution) but for the actual story it almost feels unavoidable.
This was a hilarious issue, especially the intro/disclaimer from BMB lol
I remember reading this when it came out and all I kept thinking was Wolvie and redheads... nothing but chaos comes from it.
Unrelated to this but Miles comes from the ultimate universe, has he ever… talked about some of that stuff in his own runs.
Like… Wanda and Pietrov dating was public, does Miles ever bring that up or… assume that’s also the case in 616 universe?
Either he doesn't know or someone is keeping him in the dark. Look what Peter Parker goes through on a regular basis, do you want Miles to deal with even 1/3 of that kind of headache ?
Because you might want to sign that boy up for some therapy sessions.
The other outro was the main reason I subscribed to this channel. Now I have to unsubscribe when wait until it comes back. But as usual great vid
The Talking Heads reference made my day.
With a few small changes feel things could have gone better:
If Jean wanted to teach a lesson then teach one that makes sense. Like maybe spiderman was said to have thought wolverine was cool and jean getting annoyed with both of them. Or say power got out of control so didn't mean for this to happen. Have her maybe be somewhat less annoyed once an unknown person is dragged into it. Though would make more sense if a villain did it.
Have mj know or acknowledge something is up.
Have the last line if you want a pervery wolverine be can we try that kiss when we are older. Feel would be a bit lighter than just being anything that happened as would be as dark as you want it rather than a too ambiguous.
Maybe throw in a villain so both can fight together. Doesn't have to be a serious battle but gives them more to do with different powers.
I understand if people find what wolverine did bad I understand. But feel was a joke that didn't land rather than malicious but not justifying it. Just like the intro of Bendis choking someone, regular context that is battery and being an abusive work enviroment but we know its a joke. I know the ultimate universe everyone can be wtf crazy but feel this was rushed or a bit of a lazy job. Switching bodies could have done more, at least i think so.
Also if you have ready this far what body swaps would you be interested to see.
Oddly enough this is one of the instances where the ultimate Spiderman cartoon handled this better.
Wolverine gets 4 inches taller and goes wild.
I knew of this story because of its take on the Ultimate Spider-Man animated series, but after seeing the comic panels that inspired that episode, I have to totally agree with Spider-Man that some of the members in the X-Men are part of the reason why there's so much discrimination against mutants, because you have people like Wolverine flirting and sleeping around with women which in turn cause a bunch of men to be salty and angry, and then you have people like Jean Grey that do stuff like in this story, where they are basically showing how powerful and confident they are because of their mutations, by resorting to do petty stuff and messing with humanity, instead of handling stuff like Spider-Man where even as he is in another dude's body, he still tries to help people and do the right thing, even if he still wasn't used to another person's body, but that's what makes Spider-Man one of the better heroes for Marvel.
Wolverine is a Dirty Old Mutant
Even if it’s the ultimate universe…I never thought I’d see Spider-Man cursing someone out
Man. I read these comics before I was even in high school and I don't think I really got what was happening. I was old enough to understand MJ hot, Wolverine hot, Wolverine find cheerleader hot, but I didn't really get that it was inappropriate because it was hard for me to categorize the characters as anything but 'older' to me. A 30 year old hitting on a sixteen year old in the story didn't register as anything other than older people hitting on each other. Looking back as an adult it does creep me about a bit but I think the Peter in Logan's body is the absolute best part of the story and some great comedy.
I have been a fan of Wolverine since the late 80s, probably the millionth. It looks like a great story. Love the commentary. Also, has anyone ever said you look like a character from My Hero Acadamia? No disrespect intended.