The History of Angmar, Witch-king's Realm - Region Spotlight
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- Опубліковано 9 лип 2022
- The Realm of Angmar was a mysterious and evil land in Middle-earth, and today we explore the history of the land and some thoughts about where its evil comes from! Thank you all so much for watching, let me know your thoughts on Angmar in the comments below! As always, a great thanks to the online artists whose visual works made this video possible! If you are one of the artists, please let me know and I will post your name and a link to your work in this description!
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The History of Arnor - Region Spotlight:
• The History of Arnor -...
The Angmar War - Wars of the Legendarium:
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The Witch-king of Angmar - Epic Character History:
• The Witch-king of Angm...
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_“It was during the reign of the eighth King of Arthedain that evil began to multiply in Angmar: a twisted, frozen land that lay north beyond the Ettenmoors and home of the Black Númenóreans. Among them, a sorcerer of great power arose known only as the Witch King. He has taken up his Iron Crown for a single purpose; to destroy the Dunedain and their Kingdom of Arnor.”_
Never managed to beat that game. :(
@@FireLordJohn3191 there are a large number of exploits, especially with fornost. I’d be down to help you out sometime
Excellent quote sir.
Which game?
@@alphasierrazulu Battle For Middle Earth 2: Rise Of The Witch King expansion pack.
4:30 According to "The Atlas of Tolkien's Middle-Earth", it seems that Utumno's ruins is submerged in the Ice Bay in the 2nd Age, but Angmar is still close to the Ice Bay itself.
I like to think that Carn Dûm is maybe not Utumno itself, but a small part of the ruin of Morgoth's fortress. Utunmo is supposed to be massive. So massive that many of Morgoth’s servants, like Sauron, could not be found and captured by the Valar because the fortress was too large and it’s tunnels went on for countless miles. So the Witch King built Carn Dûm on top of a small (relative to the complete size of Utumno) tunnel/battlement.
Maybe Sauron told the Witch King where this tunnel was, since Sauron had once hid in the very same tunnels. Perhaps Sauron escaped through what is now Angmar back in the age of the trees?
Angmar holds a secret defended by the Last Werewolf of the First Age. A Tree grows in a valley that doesn't have leaves. The roots stretch for miles and have red sap running in the roots.
I imagine it went all the way to under moria, so the balrog could get there?
Is that the picture that looks like Dueling peaks in Breath of the wild?
@@lomiification
The Balrog of Moria would most likely not have been fleeing from Utumno and therefore Angmar, it would have been fleeing from Angband.
However, it is possible that there’s a chain of tunnels underneath the Misty mountains through which the Balrog travelled.
"If that fell kingdom should rise again..."
The decendant of Angband and the precursor to Minas Morgul; as far as evil fortresses go I'd definitely want to visit this place. As the only nazgul that had somewhat free will, I'd want to see how this place functioned under his rule
Mini series on the Angmar wars and the fall of the north needed!!
I always get angmar and angband mixed up 😅
I personally like the depiction of Angmar in BFME II: Rise of the Witch-King.
That cold and frozen endritch evil looks very cool and gives out a sharp contrast with the hellish landscape of Mordor.
I think Angmar was a mix of Isengard when Saruman was in control, and Mordor without the fire, as much cracked ground, and much colder, because the Witch King gives off a cold presence when I look at him
I'm pretty sure Tolkien at one point suggested that Sauron planned to repeople Angmar with his servants to conquer Eriador. This was in part why Gandalf urged Thorin to reclaim Erebor: to remove the threat of Smaug and at the same time set up a defense in the north against a potential resurgence of Angmar
Gandalf had figured out Sauron's strategy regarding Angmar: To use Smaug as a vanguard so that his armies could avoid Gondor and directly attack the Elves, making Eriador Sauron's and thus placing Gondor in a vise. Angmar in the north, Isengard in the center, and Mordor in the east. Gondor would have been doomed.
Honestly, that whole part in the "Battle of the Five Armies" movie made no sense to me.
If you check the map of Middle-Earth, you can see that Angmar laid on the western corner of the Misty Mountains, while Erebor is on the eastern. If Sauron wanted to rebuild the kingdom of Angmar, he wouldn't need to conquer Erebor in order to achieve it.
The Dunedain were already few after Arnor's fall, the Elves were no longer the powerhouse they were during the First and Second Ages, and the Dwarves rarely left their halls and mines. All he had to do was rebuild Carn Dûm and start building his forces in secret. Only Rivendell would be able to stand a chance against them.
@@lisboah But you can't get there without either going past erebor where Smaug was, or going past past Galadriel, who could only be defeated if Sauron came there himself
@@paulwagner688
There's a lot of land between Lothlórien and Erebor. Even if Angmar was founded before Erebor (which was, as I went to check), there was no need to pass near any of these two regions in order to get to Angmar. I mean, the Nazguls managed to get to the Shire while passing through Gondor, Rohan and the Dunedains' watch. Gandalf only became aware of them because Saruman told him.
I would get if Sauron wanted Erebor because Smaug was there ,or because it would have been a good strategic point to launch attacks once the War of the Ring started. After all, Erebor was the last stand of both men and dwarves in the east during the war, and they only survived because Sauron lost in the south and the Easterlings retreated.
@@lisboah Yeah, but most of the land between Erebor and Lorien is Mirkwood. The Nine were able to get through because they were singular and alone. Not to mention they're the Nine. But if you want to have actual forces go through, that's not so easy.
@@paulwagner688 but what else would he need? Orcs? Already past the barriers you mentioned in e.g. Gundabad. So just sent one/some of the nine, let them take control of the Orcs in the mountains and rebuild Angmar.
I’m not certain of this, but the servants and creatures of Sauron were not in the habit of building cities, fortresses, and castles for themselves.(Barad-dur being the exception) They much preferred to take over existing structures belonging to their foes during the third age. Cirith Ungol , the Morannon, Minas Ithil to name a few. It is a good possibility that Carn Dum was another one of these conquered fortresses. Though who the Witch-king took it from, who knows? The hill men of the Ettenmoors is a possibility, but given the name, Carn Dum, it may have been taken from the Dwarves.
This is actually not bad theory. All in all, great dwarfen fortress, saint mountain Gundabad, is not very far from Carn Dum.
The influence of Angmar is STILL felt in the War. For as Aragorn says to Boromir at the Council of Elrond:
And this I will say to you, Boromir, ere I end. Lonely men are we, Rangers of the wild, hunters--but hunters ever of the servants of the Enemy; for they are found in many places, not in Mordor only.
`If Gondor, Boromir, has been a stalwart tower, we have played another part. Many evil things there are that your strong walls and bright swords do not stay. You know little of the lands beyond your bounds. Peace and freedom, do you say? The North would have known them little but for us. Fear would have destroyed them. But when dark things come from the houseless hills, or creep from sunless woods, they fly from us. What roads would any dare to tread, what safety would there be in quiet lands, or in the homes of simple men at night, if the Dúnedain were asleep, or were all gone into the grave?
`And yet less thanks have we than you. Travellers scowl at us, and countrymen give us scornful names. "Strider" I am to one fat man who lives within a day's march of foes that would freeze his heart or lay his little town in ruin, if he were not guarded ceaselessly. Yet we would not have it otherwise. If simple folk are free from care and fear, simple they will be, and we must be secret to keep them so. That has been the task of my kindred, while the years have lengthened and the grass has grown.
Actually going to Carn Dum in Lord of the Rings War in the North was my favorite part of the game.
Considering its proximity to Gundabad, it would not be surprising if some of the goblins and orcs of that area lurked within the abandoned fortresses of Angmar.
I really liked it in LotrO.
It was a rather good take on the concept of a once prosperous land, now twisted by dark forces.
There are even hidden deeps within it that hide things which before, you don't actually see in the game, nor in any of the movies.
And it's also a fitting narrative conclusion if you look at the original game.
It starts in lush green hills of Bree, and ends in the desolate wastes of Angmar.
And there are still more remnants in pockets such as Gundabad.
You start your journey in Bree, the Shire or Ered Luin. Sure, goblins or brigands are causing trouble, but you quickly work with the rangers to deal with them. Things start to escelate as you journey throughout Eriador. More and more orcs and evil men are causing trouble. You begin to find that higher powers are at play in these lands. Without spoiling too much, you help the Rangers and free people of Eriador stop the forces of Angmar from using a lesser ring of power to conquer Eriador in Sauron's name. Soon after, nine companions depart Rivendell.
As for you, a company of dwarves is preparing an expedition to reclaim Moria. Your adventure through Middle Earth continues....
And yet Rhudaur was not an unpleasant land to live in. Harsh, maybe, but not super bad. After all, Dunedain once dwelt there before being overcome.
The idea of Angmar as a city is interesting. That implies housing, stores, stabling, smithies, wheelwrights, stables, carpenters, masons, butchers and bakers. An area which needed to function for its inhabitants. Though it's Witchking may have been supernatural, its people were corporeal and needed to be fed and clothed. I believe that places like Utumno and Angband were created by the will of their master, but Angmar would need to be built and maintained. Who would the people have been who would build a city like that?
Its.
The cursed Numenoreans of the Witch-King, along with Orcs and goblins would serve the Last Werewolf. Chief and Alpha of the Wargs of the North, he is the only survivor of Sauron's Minas Tirith, Werewolf Island. They came from the northern territory of Numenor. The Witch-King was a Royal from the line of Forostar, his true name is lost to time. The Werewolf taught and corrupted the king with magic and sorcery under Sauron's command.
@@shadowofchaos8932 where did this passage come from?
Car pulls up to Angmar. Kids: “I thought we were going to Disneyland.” Me: “this IS Disneyland!”
Very interesting! I've always wanted to learn more about Angmar, the Witch King, and the Nazgul. Maybe a "What if Gandalf found out Bilbo had the One Ring earlier"?
Left unwritten, the Witch-King and Angmar have a great story to be told. It has great importance in the Fourth Age as it was not overthrown and destroyed.
Well the Witch King is no more
@@frodofraggins It says His voice was not heard in this(3rd age) which means nothing since age ended few days ago. He could and should be the third enemy of middle earth. As for his survival, he made many enchanted things and maybe those would return him just like Sauron was returned because of the One Ring
@@michaelstark8720 he was killed and at best was resurrected by Sauron before the ring was destroyed.
As far as "should" be the next boss. Um no. He was still alive due to the rings power. He's caput.
@@frodofraggins He was one of most powerful beings ever existed and he sure could kept part of himself saved in case Sauron is destroyed. Witch King is more like Morgoth with Icy powers in cold land of Angmar than Sauron and he killed last king of Arnor in icy storm created by him. He will never be gone.
Another excellent video Yoystan!
Ever since ROTWK, I have been fascinated by this time period of Middle Earth’s history and thought that it would have been the perfect setting for a TV show based on it. We have just enough information about the era from Tolkien’s own writings to get a general grasp of what happened but there is also so much left vague and unknown that someone can expand and extrapolate out to explore in more detail what happened during this period.
Perhaps most interesting for me is the rise of the Witch King himself as he wasn’t using his status as the Lord of the Nazgul to seat himself as King of this land as everyone thought he was just a powerful Black Numenorean sorcerer… so how did he, a stranger in this land with no followers, no money and no armies manage to create a kingdom strong enough to be capable of waging war on Arnor and laying ruin to Fornost? That’s why ROTWK was such a great DLC, because you can’t help but see the Witch King as the protagonist of this period of time and see something of a tragic fall in that he accomplished in Arnor what he never could in Gondor, yet it led to the Elves tearing down his fortress and him having to flee, his true nature and loyalty to Sauron exposed.
There’s so much you could do with this, so many characters you could introduce, so many settings you could show, so many stories you could tell that I’m amazed this one, relatively obscure DLC pack, is the only attention it’s gotten from outside the books themselves.
Maybe one day. 🤷🏻♂️
A series exploring the rise and fall of Angmar and the northern kingdom of Arnor is one of my greatest dreams bro.
The north of Middle-earth, especially Arnor and Angmar (but also northern Rhovanion), are my most favourite part of Tolkien's work. I love the story about the fall of the Northern Kingdom, the Dwarves in Moria and Erebor, the origins of the Éothed etc. Maybe because there is more room for one's own interpretation, as you have to read the appendices and further works.
And then there are many games that feature this greater region with different stories, like LotRO, War in the North, BfME2 and RotWK, the Angmar Awakened and Ered Mithrin cycles of the LoTR LCG and probably many more games I do not know. Some of these stories are great, others meh, but all in all I like what other people have come up with.
If I had to rank Angmar's commanders from least favourite to most favourite, it would look like this: Agandaûr, Daechanar, the Witch-king, Mordirith.
Man I absolutely loved the Rise of the Witch King Expansion to the Battle for Middle Earth 2 game for it going over this untapped story line in Middle Earth history. :D
Great video! I like the thumbnail image.
Thanks guys
8:25 - really nice and calming background music
Also 8:25 - "I absolutely love how evil the adaptations of Angmar are!"
“Angmar shall prevail…”
LotR: War in the North was a game I enjoyed a lot, which gave us an interresting "What if" with Angmar. If a Black Numenorrean were sent by Sauron to conquer and wreak havoc on the North, their base of operations is likely to have been there.
I like the idea of Angmar being like a high fantasy mix of Chernobyl and the Red Zones from the former Western Front of WWI, places so poisoned by Evil that even with the source destroyed, the land itself is a Post-Apocalyptic wasteland, and will require an age and half again before it can start true recovery.
Excellent video Yoystan! Angmar has always been mysteriously fascinating to me. It seems that the lingering evil roots that Morgoth planted so so long ago had a hand in this region. The Witch King ruling over a defiled and dead land gives one chills.
Thanks Alexi! I quite agree!
I like to think that there is still a great evil there, and that it will still take a great deal of fighting and sorrow in the reign of Elessar to take it and to set about purifying it of the taint of the Witch-King.
And tbh, always kind of favoured the view that it was built upon the site of Utumno. Glad you mentioned in the video and so glad you did this, as the Angmar Wars are amongst my favourite parts of the lore.
Amazing video like always, love listining to this while playing divide and conquer LOR
Thanks Roxas! Have fun!
It actually is an interesting place, even within Tolkein's Legendarium. It had a "Capital City" at Carn Dum (forgive spelling). Evil never built, it occupied. Outside of Untumno, Angband and Barad Dur; all of which were "raised" by evil demi-gods and weren't "Cities"; all other evil places were occupied and corrupted.
I think it is too far south to be part of Utumno. I would guess it was a long abandoned city of the Sons of Feanor; an outpost of those who "chose" to guard the eastern most approaches to Beleriand. ("Chose", as in "nobody wanted them nearby").
Such cool history and lore about the city of Angmar and what became of it Angmar is one of my favorite legendary villains in the Lord of the Rings from J.R.R Tolkien’s books so cool great video and narration 😊👏🏻
Angmar being built upon the old ruins of Thangorodrim is a very interesting theory. I have always thought Morgoth's original stronghold was destroyed along with Beleriand when the earth was made round, so this had never occurred to me. Nice food for thought, and as always, beautiful art included in this entertaining upload. Edit: spelling error fixed
Love your long story explainer videos of Tolkien🥰
It seems pretty common in Tolkien's writings that Evil never really gives up its former holdings. In the Book, The hobbits encounter a barrow-wight that was likely a remnant of Angmar's forces.
"i am the fist of Angmar!"
"I've got stone and iron to build for Angmar!"
"Work. Or its the thrall hordes for you"
"I speak with the witch-kings voice"
"Forth men of darkness! For Angmar and Carn dum!"
"I am the Dark Lord's heir!"
Great video! Keep it going!
The Witch King's realm will always be my favourite evil place especially Carn Dūm, thanks to the man of the west for making this wonderful video
Excited for Thursday's trailer? Can't wait for more footage! Hope its more to what we book fans want to see.
I hope so too!
This is for those that don't know about it, in a mod called Divide and Conquer for medieval II Total War which takes place in LoTR, Angmar is its own faction under the name of Remnants of Angmar and is depicted as a mostly Human faction with orcs filling more of a Cavalry role for you ontop of Waurgs. You can also get the witch king but it requires you to conquer both Imladris and Fornost. in all a very fun faction actually.
Now make “The History of Utumno, the realm of MELKOR”
It’s very old but here you go!
ua-cam.com/video/OdaPoHMNWEI/v-deo.html
@@MenoftheWest Then it must be remade!
Not everything has to be remade, cause sometimes you don't have new information for that certain subject
A great video as always Men of the West, I think Angmar is a part/remnant of Melkor's old fortress Utumno.
I agree that the notion of the land's evil being a "pre-existing condition" makes a certain sense of why Angmar was founded there, in which case it may have been a place that Sauron had wanted to claim for a long time. But the fact of its strategically-critical location could explain things just as well: we'll never know.
As for its fate, I have long thought that Angmar was a "kingdom" in name only, and that it was neither well-settled nor well-ordered, mostly being a breeding ground for enemies of the West the way cockroaches and pests breed in a vacant lot. It may not have been destroyed because there was little or nothing *worth* destroying, only a fortified shanty-town or long-term encampment called, "Carn Dum," which would fall apart by itself in due time.
There is so little in the way of hard facts about Angmar, a land explicitly tied to the Witch-King, who is the face of evil for so much of the central story in LoTR. The fact that the land isn't described much makes me think it was not a central hub for Sauron's forces, but perhaps more like a forward operating base? The WK obviously wasn't born in Angmar, so him being "of Angmar" seems more like a reference to the WK's status and accomplishments while operating from the land.
Since I am not a Tolkien scholar, I can only give of what I know in our world. That men love evil and will return to it as a dog returns to it's own vomit. Maybe after Aragorn and his heirs have passed that men of that world want to revisit what they call power. I would hope this would not have been the case, but as I have said earlier there are those who have a blood lust for power and to control others under their will. As always excellent video, can't wait till next Sunday afternoon.
As always, an excellent and informative video. Your respectful and fascinating explanations of the histories, languages and peoples of Middle Earth are what keep me coming back for more and more. Well met.
I heard somewhere (and I know NOTHING about the history), that, after a long period of time, even Mordor began to be "cleansed" of Sauron's evil and things began to grow etc. and it started becoming habitable. I would expect Angmar would feel the same results.
As a suggestion for a video (s), while I'm sure it's probably been done already, how about the histories of Utumno and Angband?
Awesome 💯
So, the evil path in Middle Earth through the era-
Angmar---> Dol-Guldor (Mirkwood forest) ---> Barad-Dur (Mordor) 🧐
I liked this motw, but I always felt the placement of Utumno on that map was wrong. I always felt Utumno was more towards the upper part of Rhun.
Also, there is an interesting quote, if I have time I’ll go find it. But it hints that when the orcs started fortifying the mountains that Carn Dum may have been one of these places that orcs came to live. This quote was regarding places like Goblin Gate, Moria, etc. and we know that Mount Gram orcs fought after the fall of Angmar under Golfimbul
It seems like Angmar exhausted itself, just like Arnor, in the war between them. In the Third Age, Middle Earth is only sparsely populated. This must be the case for Angmar as well, given its inhospitable climate. Without a powerful mastermind, such as the Witch King, the creatures of evil would squabble amongst each other and scatter instead of assembling in one location under one command.
I think it makes most sense that Angmar was frigid and a difficult place to dwell, possibly as a direct result of being close to Angband and some remnant of the power of Morgoth and/or ice drakes. Thus it took great power to maintain the Kingdom, while if that power fled or were broken there was relatively little incentive for anyone to dwell there. Plus, over the centuries methinks the Rangers periodically swept in and rooted out evil.
here we go the creepy side of the lengedarium
I think that any power in Angmar would have been completely wiped out after The Witchking abandoned it.
I don’t know if you’ve done so, but do you think we could get a Lord of The Rings Online play through? With you at the helm, or with a fellowship of friends, I’d definitely be excited to see that.
I lack a computer and a PC, and it may even be an interesting bit of content for you to dabble in! Any way, I love your content, and can’t wait to binge it all again.
May Ilúvatar guide your way home.
MERP I think it was stablish that Carn Durn was a dwarven mining outpost of the dwarves from Belegost or Nogrod until it falled and their original dwellers go to Khazad dum
The biggest question of all; was he a witch and a king or just a king of witches or does Witch King just really sound cool?
Dawg you have a video for every lore question I can think of. I can discuss LOTR with my brother without being a normie now.
I think a good possible explanation is that the Witch King, endowed with some of Sauron's power, effected the region in the same way Galadrial and Elrond did with their kingdoms, or even Melian beforehand. That is to say, he could to some extent shape and control the environment in order to set up natural defenses and possibly even make it more habitable so long as he lived there. This would explain why few lived around Carn Dum before or after he departed, similar to how Melian's kingdom (I forget the name) lost it's protection when she left, and the elven kingdoms were doomed to wain when Elrond, Gandalf, Galadrial (and Cirdan) left, taking their rings with them.
As for what happened to the inhabitants, besides simple depopulation when it became inhospitable again, I think the goblins likely simply migrated into the Misty Mountains, setting the stage for their fun little romp with the dwarves a few years later as they gave their hospitality to the latter's king. Same with the trolls, though as the Hobbit showed, some may have also taken to simple banditry where they could. As for the men, it's likely they too fell into wild living, probably migrating and assimilating into groups like the Dunlandings (if they weren't of those people already) or tried migrating into lands over the mountains in order to deal with a population that would have less of a perfectly understandable vendetta against them than the elves and Men of the West.
🔥👁🔥
Angmar
the home of the Witch King
I think the Merp version as a dark tundra was best. Love the the look if Carn Dum as well. A tall tower keep on top of a hill.
By it's name, Carn Dum (Red City?), is probably a Dwarven City, perhaps abandoned or conquered in the first or second age. Maybe it was an outpost or mining community of the Broadbeams, Firebeards, or Durin's Folk. Regardless it served the Witch King well as a military fortress and command center for his quest to destroy Arnor and exact vengeance on his former kinsmen for his master's defeat in the War of the Last Alliance.
I'm pretty sure that the Ruins of Utunmo are under the frigid waters of Forochel Bay, but its tunnels were said to run all the way to Angband, so, it would not be a too much of a reach to guess that the tunnels of Utunmo might not run under Carn Dum. If so then, maybe the Dwarfs of Carn Dum delved too deep, as Dwarfs are prone to do, and met a similar fate to the folk of Khazad-Dum?
Angmar was probably less of a kingdom and more of a military state. The concentrated focus of Angmar was the destruction of the Dunedain of the North. It's subjects, economy, and laws were most likely perpetual martial law. Angmar has quartermasters instead of shopkeepers, barracks instead of inns, and all eligible males are conscripts enlisted into the service of the Witch King,. When the Angmarim were defeated and routed at the Battle of Fornost, the only inhabitants of Angmar were the non-combatants, who offered no threat to the Army of Gondor and Lindon.
As you say, I imagine that it remained as arnor, ruins and some warriors devoted to their old master
I love the representation of Angmar in LOTRO, It's the only place I feel scared in before lvl 50. Very well done, desolate, huge and doomed.
The real question I have is: who were the indigenous hillmen? Were they related to the "Gwaithuirim and therefore a northernmost expansion of people related to the Dunlendings and men of Bree? Tolkien seems to hint that the Bree-men were the northernmost extension of this primal stock of people, but maybe that's just because he never talked about the origin of the Hillmen. Or were they descendants of one of the groups of Easterlings from the First Age that didn't cross over into Beleriand? Tolkien did seem to suggest directly that some of the peoples of the First Age Easterlings did remain in Eriador. And The Grey Annals suggests that after the First Age ended, some refugees from the First Age Easterlings fled back into Eriador, including some of the peoples of Bor, but he seems to suggest more that they became the men of the Forodwaith than the Hillmen of Angmar and Rhudaur. Big mystery.
I’m trying to find more about Angmar for a Adventures of ME D&D game, and wish it had a little more third age lore lol was thinking of having the party go up there to seek out an item, maybe something imprisoned, or something that needs to be killed/banished/incapacitated. Worst case I can have them kill an orc chieftain uniting scattered or lost bands, but wanted something bigger since the party would be relatively small players in the war of the ring.
So I'm finishing resding the books for the fordt time and reaching the of the battle in front of the black gate.
I'm bad with directions in real life and tje book keeps referencing landmarks that I know I should know but I dont.
Do you think you could do a video showing on a map where all the fellowship members where over the course of the books. I would love a visual aid.
Mordor being nearly a synonym of the Abyss. After seeing this, it had me wondering continuously. The 9 Nazugul once the great kings of men. Did they really want things to go to ruin?
With the exception of The Witchking, the Nazugul had no free of their own. So it wouldn't have mattered to them if they destroyed and ruined everything around them, they would have destroyed the lands they had once ruled if Sauron ordered it.
When you say it's like Mordor does that imply that another one of Ungoliant's offspring lives there?
It’s possible!
@@MenoftheWest how so?
@@madambutterfly1997 It came about originally as a foreign exchange student who decided to stay permanently .Ungoliants offspring who was that exchange student , upon completing his studies found employment at
Ang Donalds flipping Orc burgers .
@@madambutterfly1997 That there could be one of her daughters. As he said, we know very little so we can speculate.
I like scene, where Witch-king appeared and forced Captain of Gondor to retreat, but was forced to quick retreat by Glorfindel.
'Then the Witch-king laughed, and none that heard it ever forgot the horror of that cry. But Glorfindel rode up then on his white horse, and in the midst of his laughter the Witch-king turned to flight and passed into the shadows. For night came down on the battlefield, and he was lost, and none saw whither he went. Eärnur now rode back, but Glorfindel, looking into the gathering dark, said: "Do not pursue him! He will not return to this land. Far off yet is his doom, and not by the hand of man will he fall." These words many remembered, but Eärnur was angry, desiring only to be avanged for his disgrace. So ended the evil realm of Angmar; and so Eärnur, Captain of Gondor, earned the chief hatred of the Witch-king; but many years were still to pass before this was revealed.'
It maybe likely that whatever remnants of Angmar remained at that time fell into infighting and it's unity between the men of the realm and the orcs was broken without the Witch King to maintain order and give proper commands.
Still it would be interesting if something still resides with the realm of Angmar. If a piece of Utumno still remains imagine some hidden evils and hideous abominations even Sauron had forgotten that could be still dwelling under the earth like the Nameless Things do. Even Angmar folk might be afraid of venturing such a place where a precursor evil once existed in these lands.
The bit i remember was 'the men of carn dum came at us' not orcs, men but they seem to have faded away. there's no story of them being hunted down but I like the idea it was cursed land even a part of utummno.
Melkors original fortress Utumno was near there or occupied the same area.
Elrond and Glorfindel fought against Angmar and, as they dwelt so close to where that kingdom was, I can't imagine a situation where they would just leave Carn Dum intact for fell things to gather in again. Especially when I consider that Elrond, Cirdan, Isildur, and the forces of both elves and men tore Baradur down to its foundations I can't imagine Elrond, the elven lords, and the descendants of Isildur doing less for this stronghold of evil. Elrond and Glorfindel are certainly too wise to shrug and say, "Never mind. It'll be fine to just leave it standing and as it is even though we just drove the Witch King into exile and defeated his armies. He won't come back to it and regroup if we leave it standing."
Without the Witch King's rule, it is likely that whatever of his monstrous lieutenants were left in Angmar began to fight among themselves for control, perhaps leading to a series of warlords whose reigns were brief and bloody. In all the (admittedly few) tales of Angmar, little is said of the people who must have toiled somewhere to grow or husband the food consumed by those in the city, or of the residents of said city, other than they had become evil. It's a bit hard to imagine an evil little girl feeding the chickens, so I imagine the evil fell mostly upon the rich and powerful while the lives of the peasantry continued about the same as they would be under any oppressive regime, with the added possibility of being selected to BE dinner at the palace, I suppose. Yes, you could have them all be slaves, but the difference in many periods of our own history was largely semantic. You can only kill so many of your subjects before productivity collapses, (not to mention the many ways oppressed labor find to stealthily reduce production as a kind of revenge). It's also worth noting that unless they relied on plunder for ALL their domestic needs, you'd have to have skilled labor in the city as well. When a troll leans on a table and breaks it, somebody has to build a new one.
In my head there was something deep within Angmar that poisoned the lands with evil.
If the War of the Rohirrim is a success, maybe they might make some similar movies on the Angmar Wars.
You state while speculating that angmar may lay where utumno laid in ancient days, that Mordor had an ancient affiliation with morgoth’s influence. Can you explain morgoth’s involvement with the land that would later become Mordor? Source?
i really liked how they fleshed it out in LOTRO and made it feel like a real place. oppressed but also fighting. great zone to level in, too. barad gularan was a bitch to get thru tho.
I am heavily convinced, that angmar is inspired by the swiss glaciers, unlike most parts of the misty mountains which are inspired more by the alps/mountain themselves.
Its kinda difficult to explain but in our folklores, we have 2 different kind of levels.
The stories about the alps themselves and the glacier stories. While the alps are usually just confusing or dubious stuff. The glacier stories are about mythic hidden and ancient things. Given the deadliness of glaciers i hope you can kind of understand what i mean.
The evil spirits do seem like a hard copy of one glacier saga already.
The hillmen seem to originate from one of our sagas aswell..
I need to look them up again, ive last heard them when i was like 5.
Theres a few more concerning the alps and misty mountains..
but i am interested in the angmar and glacier story connection.
I can imagine that he reserved a place like angmar for our actual dark stories.
the stone of erech. It is clearly an homage to the "teufelsstein von göschenen".
It isnt a hardcopy story wise but the description of tolkien is an exact translation.
it is related to wraiths and broken oaths, which also is the point of the teufelsstein story. The only difference is the oath to be sworn towards the devil and tricking him instead of an oath to the good and abandoning it in the time of need.
Same goes for the emyn muil which is another copy of swiss myths.
Man i want to make a complete list.
I need to, theres too many swiss inspirations to simply get them without one
Perhaps Angmar withered but remained much as the remnants of Dol Guldur persisted through the years... perhaps Sauron had some influence to protect both as a possible stronghold for himself outside of Mordor, creating three outposts of evil in Middle Earth?
witch king is my favorite villain, angmar is cool, still love minas morghul
I always preferred it’s depiction in BFME2 RotWK. A frozen version of Mordor populated by black numenoreans and orcs and trolls and other fell creatures. And that the fortress/city was a source of evil left over from the days of morgoth. Sauron likely knew of the place and directed the WK there. Perhaps he even used it to hide after morgoth fell?
Gulavhar lived there after the Witch King fled, sleeping for centuries in the old catacombs.
Pure speculation on my part. I believe Angmar was a hidden Elven kingdom. Moriquendi, Dark Elves. Nandor, probably. Whenever an Elven kingdom is destroyed, it is never repopulated or rebuilt. I believe the Witch King murdered such a hidden kingdom, fed on that evil, fueled his armies, and once defeated... Nothing would return to such a sad place.
I think that Tolkien would have said such thing to be so. I do not think that Angmar was an Avarin/Nandorin elven realm. Rather an abandoned Numenorean outpost or a abandoned Noldorin outpost (we know that Gil-Galad had his realm expanded beyond the Misty Mountains during the third millennium of the Second Age). That would be more likely. It would explain that he had multiple outposts created in order to guard the borders of his realm.
I have always wondered how a nation and its economy lasted for so long up there.
In my own fan fiction for Dagor Dagorath, Angmar, and specifically Carn Dum, will be the final stronghold of Morgoth after the destruction of the sun and the moon. It is from there that he will raise and marshall his new dark armies to destroy the world of men.
Gundabad is supposedly a fortress of Angmar and from it an army went to Erebor
The land was probably "Cleansed" of evil following the restoration and reunification of the two realms under King Elesar Telcontor. The same was done in the morgul vale so it's quite possible though never stated in any of Tolkien's works.
Witch king is technically the dark lord to a lesser extent. Which is why sometimes i find him more interesting than the other 2 darklords.
Witchking is a mortal, yet was able to plague middleearth like a dark lord
I believe that the powers of Angmar were linked to the Witch King’s ring. Not that the ring for men had actual powers, but it gave men the courage and drive to achieve lofty goals. When the One Ring was destroyed, all the other rings lost their power keeping the Nazgûl alive and they perished. If any foul beings lived in Angmar, their spirits were crushed knowing that their leaders were no more. So I believe that Angmar is uninhabited. If it’s truly snow covered then it’s not the best place to start up a new kingdom.
All my speculation!
If there was something of significance left the I'm sure Aragorn would have explained it to the Hobbits, since it was his ancestral homeland, in a sense. It could have been a thoroughly barren and spooky abode of the Northern Kingdom if, like Minas Morgul, it was simply occupied and despoiled by orcs. If these imagined huge and imperious towers were built with the vicarious power of the One Ring, they would have probably fallen to dust when the Ring was destroyed. I often wondered what sort of commerce existed this far north to sustain a kingdom of men. Trade with the Dwarves, sure, but did they live on; whale blubber and seals?
After the fall of the Witch King, Walmart came to Angmar. All hope for recovery of local trade ended. It is now a tomb.
This may be a stupid question, but do we know much about Magic in the Legendarium, as in how did humans and elves learn and cast magic. We hear that some of the Nazgul were sorcerers in life but we don't really get to see what "magic" was capable of.
Tolkien wasn't very specific about how magic worked in the Legendarium.
Evil such as lurked there would leave a stain upon the land that wouldn’t easily wash away.
The Dark Elves freed the lands and moved in🤘🏼💪🏼
Took me two years to watch this, sire, because of how SLOWLY and low the Witch King spoke (and I wished they varied it by having the Mouth of Sauron speak low and the Witch King screech like Skeletor) "Watch................now!"
I think that the witch king put a curse on the city or there's so much dark magic there that no one can stay in the city.
I wonder if the Witch King held allegience strictly to Sauron or simply followed him as higher in the chain of command in service to Morgoth?
He served sauron only.
LOTR War in the North is the best LOTR game.
It is possible that trolls dwelt there during the War of the Ring, since the trolls lived in dens as far west as the North Downs, why wouldn't they dwell in Angmar? Also, where did the people of Angmar from rhovanion go to?