Hey everyone, I hope you enjoyed the video! I wanted to add a detail here, it's possible that Tuor and Idril arrived in Valinor after sailing West indeed, as it is told by the traditions of the Eldar and Edain, but there is still speculation regarding their fates at large. Thanks!
@@Enerdhil According to the legend, Tuor is caunt among Eldar after reaching Aman. It make perfect sense. Tolkien never split couples. Lúthien became human and share the same fate with Beren (and stay with him forever). Eärendil choose to be and elf to stay with Elwing. Arwen choose the mortal life and share the same fate with Aragorn. I can though about only one exception - Túrin. If Dagor dagor will happen, he stay in halls of Mandons until this battle. But Tolkien abandoned this concept later. So if Túrin isn't in halls of Mandos, he will be reunited with Nienor after death. So how knows? Maybe Ilúvatar blessed Tuor with immortal life so he could stay with Idril.
I suppose the best alternative story is that his association with the elves allowed him to live a (relatively) long life with Idril and was given the grace to know and accept that it was his time to journey onward. He did obey Ulmo and deliver the Vala's message to Turgon. He was also prepared to bail on Gondolin when it was time and was a supporter of his bride's secret passage out of the hidden kingdom. I hope his faithfulness to the Valar would allow him to exist wherever his fea felt at home.
"Don't go where I can't follow" There's something amazing and fascinating that Tolkien did here He essentially made heaven a physical place in this world. Knowing that somewhere in the world is a land of eternal bliss changes the people and how they act and think vs how it was wen it was removed from the world. Completely and utterly fascinating.
Its a good point...but the Numenorean rebels HAD that land of bliss and even the presence of beings they regarded nearly gods in that world too, and they still tried to march on and conquer it.
@@michaelfisher7170 Exactly! That's wen the shift in thinking occurs; it's like wen the Americans fully explored and settled the west, that vast open last, that garden of eden was no longer there, and it changed the way they thought about life and prosperity Same with the inhabitants of middle earth
@@lmatt88 true, but the quote was in conjunction with the fact that not everyone gets to go there and some must leave loved ones behind Even tho ultimately Bilbo, Frodo, and Sam ended up there ;)
According to Tolkien’s writings, right now, in 2022, the Elves we’ve all read about, like Legolas, Elrond, and Galadriel, are still living in the Undying Lands. Frozen in time and with out any significant technological innovation. Riding horses, singing songs, making Lembas bread, practicing archery, now and forever more. Let that sink in.
So.... That doesn't sound like paradise now, does it? For a mortal probably whose spirit is always restless in Arda (Eru made them that way so meh), this is like prison, but just surrounded by beautiful things. Your every day life is like a rewind of your previous days... Unchanging, static, monotonous. There's a reason why the Noldor felt confined in there.
@@ArJay1688I think you are being shortsighted and misunderstand the gift of living in the Valinor. Here you either have or find the Love of your life, make deep, joyful friendships, and have beautiful, talented children. Time is no longer a consideration; you can now enjoy your life as you wish. The land has plains, forests, mountains, lakes, rivers & oceans. The food you learn to grow & meals that you can learn to cook that are not only extremely delicious but very healthy; the songs you can learn to sing and musical instruments you can learn to play have no limits. You can grow and make your own textiles. Whether wool, silks cotton, etc, and design & spin it into cloth and articles of clothing for yourself or others as gifts. Every day the joy of waking up next to your love, making love and reveling in each other’s laughter and wit. Becoming friends with the animals, the birds, the trees, and all life, every single day is a new wonder, a new gift and joy of a happy, fulfilling life with more and more joy than you could ever imagine.❤❤
And the ship went out into the High Sea and passed into the West, until at last on a night of rain Frodo smelled a sweet fragrance on the air and heard the sound of singing that came over the water. And then it seemed to him that as in his dream in the house of Bombadil, the grey rain-curtain turned all to silver glass and was rolled back, and he beheld white shores and beyond them a far green country under a swift sunrise. - JRR Tolkien
Considering that the Surviving members of the fellowship like Bilbo, Frodo and Gimli were invited to spend their final days in peace and good cheer before passing on, could Valinor be considered a gate to heaven as it were?
@@hydradominatus3641 Actually there are Elves residing in the Halls of Mandos but in a different region of the Halls from Mortal Men. They either reside there till the end of Arda days or they can be released and given a second life in Eldamar or before the 4th age could journey back to Middle Earth. For example Glorfindel was reincarnated. He was alive in the first age and died in the defence of Gondolin. Then the Valar gave him permission to leave and once again he returned to Middle Earth. He attended the Council of Elrond in 3018 of the third age.
Man I dont think that I've ever heard of a more peacefull and more relaxing place than Valinor, man what a name!!!! Yoystan as always amazing video!!!!!
Eärendil chose his fate in the Blessed Realm and could no longer reside in mortal realms whereas Men couldn't reside in the Blessed Realm. Manwë's messengers to the Númenóreans brought up a good point about the Undying Lands doesn't make one deathless, it's the deathless that dwell therein have hallowed the land. The Númenóreans would only spurn the Gift of Men by usurping Valinor and they were ungrateful.
To be cut a away from the world forever and from love and pain and and an ability to know and to see the other beings of the world(to clarify any beings other than men), even in such a world that is what death is, no master could ever be good enough for such not to be a curse in my eyes. For them to think themselves so speaks to a level of arrogance almost impossible for a man to swallow let alone admire.
@@Sara3346 But at the same time, its understandable. You see, how long can any man stay faithful in front of constant temptation? The Valars monumental mistake was to put Numenor in sight of Valinor. To put a place where there is no hurt, cold, illness, injury or death in sight of people that have to deal with the hardship of life on the daily basis inevitable brews rebellion.
i dont' think it would be easy to not feel robbed off seeing elves being pampered since their awakening( remebr numenor was given only AFTER men fought and died against morgoth) , immortal, fairest and wiset of all the creature, and allowed to go to a undyig land ,a paradise ,free from pain and corruoption morgoth and sauorn left ... while some immortal valar who neevr showed personally to men say "death" is a gift and you are not allowed to see the most beatiful and blessed lands of arda ,nor being guided and teached by valar..it just sounds patronzing. it semems a mix valar's ignorance of man nature and faovirtism towards elves since the beggining of the ages
Men of the west, you should totally make a discord server for ur channel! People could use this to talk about anything Tolkien, make theories, and give you vid ideas! Let me know if you decide to do this, and if you need help with anything, let me know :)
This was perfectly timed for me. I just finished The Silmarillion again, and was (once again) blown away by how incredible everything about that book is.
Thank you so much for making this video, it really gave me comfort. 🥺💗🙏 I've been painfully abused last night from a much older brother who has completely lost his mind and his own sense of right and wrong. Especially for the way he has mistreated me and my two other brothers for the last few years, he was very cruel to us! He clearly does not care about his own family, like the way I do. 🥺💔 So, when that video came out this morning, I was very glad and reliefed. This has given me a strong relief from the sorrows I had to endure. 🥺😔
With our world seemingly falling apart, I wouldn't mind if I were invited to dwell with the Valar in Valinor or the Eldar in Eldamar in peace and bliss. Aman awaits.
@@lulunuyear8809 “It is not our part to master all the tides of the world, but to do what is in us for the succour of those years wherein we are set, uprooting the evil in the fields that we know, so that those who live after may have clean earth to till. What weather they shall have is not ours to rule”
the rapture is soon friend Jesus is coming! get saved now! if so you can be raptured to heaven! which is undying!! great tribulation is coming!!! do not be left behind!! Heaven is even greater than any undying land!! for it is a kingdom above all! high above any land!! where streets are gold, and everything is a rainbow glittering gem! at least thats what some say who dreamt of it
Yeah maybe so. It was never really revealed what actually happened to them. But it has been suggested that Tuor and Idril did make it to Valinor and that Tuor, while a Mortal man, was counted among the first born there afterwards. So the Valar through Eru granted him immortality in Aman.
@@Enerdhil It's somewhere in Tolkien's notes. Christopher Tolkien mentioned that his father stated that Eru granted this to Tuor because he was destined to find Gondolin and his role as the father of Earendil. He also had more of the characteristics of the Eldar than the Edain. No other full Mortal Man was ever granted this honor. It was intimated that he and Idril lived in Eldamar ever which on Aman.
@@Enerdhil Yes exactly. Tuor's story is very unique and one of a kind. No other full blooded Mortal Man was ever given this choice. The closest would be Elros, Elrond, Arwen and her brothers Elladan and Elrorir. But of course they were so called " Half Elves". They had significant Elvish ancestry along with their Mortal and Maiar blood. But yeah Tuor's story was an only one man in Arda's history occurrence.
@@Enerdhil Indeed it does my friend. Tuor and Idril lived in happiness together in Eldamar for all time. I like to think they met their grandson Elrond when he sailed to Valinor with Bilbo, Frodo, Galadriel and Gandalf after the war of the ring in 3021. He was then reunited with his wife Celebrian the daughter of Galadriel and Celeborn.
You have the best Tolkien UA-cam channel, but one subject I wish you'd explore more is Gandalf's origin; not as a maiar of Manwe, but as an acolyte of Nienna and a figure of deep wisdom and mercy. In the Undying Lands, how did Olorin gain the nuance to appreciate the hobbits while Aiwendil, for example, was so one-dimensional? Also, looking at Gandalf as a literary figure outside of the Legendarium, he is a clear stand-in for Odin. Talking about the connections with the Norse (and other) pantheons would be really interesting. Thanks for a great channel.
The way Tolkien wrote the Valar, no, I wouldn't want to live with them. I find them all intensely annoying characters. Especially Mandos, who comes across like a two-bit medium with his vague prophecies
I was always under the impression that when Frodo, Bilbo and Gimli went to the undying lands they became immortal. But, based on yours and other videos i watched. That doesn't appear to be the case. I figured that was part of the reward for being allowed to sail there.
No they might have been given a longer life on Tol Eressea as a gift for being in the fellowship which led to the destruction of the Ring. But still in the end Frodo, Bilbo, Sam and Gimli were mortals who were destined to die, and afterwards their spirits would reside in the Halls of Mandos. Then after a period of time would leave the circles of Arda and reside eternally somewhere else, perhaps the timeless halls with Eru. Gimli's fate we don't know about because he was a Dwarf. But after the last battle with Morgoth Tolkien stated that the Dwarves will have their place among the Children of Eru.
I always feel like if they were given the choice of immortality, Bilbo would refuse. I believe his curiousness to see the world beyond Arda would make him refuse it. Frodo and Sam would want to see their friends again someday. Gimli I believe would be the only one who would accept the gift due to his friendship to Legolas and the elves.
I like to think that Amandil was commended for his selfless actions in warning Valinor, but punished for breaking the Ban on Valior, not by death, nor imprisonment in a dungeon, but simply banned from ever leaving Valinor, thus punishing him by keeping him from his family.
@@Enerdhil except Ar-Pharazon arrived to Valinor with wicked intent, to conquer and destroy in a foolish and greedy attempt to deny the inevitable, his own mortality. Amandil arrived with pure intentions, to warn Valinor of the coming attack by Ar-Pharazon's Army, knowing full well that he risked death in doing so, I'm not convinced of his demise...
@@Enerdhil except there have been many exceptions in the laws of Middle-Earth, Beregond killed some of Denathor's guards while he and Pippin saved Faramir, after Aragon was crowned, Beregond was to be judged for his actions, and under normal circumstances would've been put to death, but King Elessar showed mercy, as Beregond's actions were to save Faramir, so Beregond was simply banned from ever returning to the White City. Amandil's actions were to save Valinor, so I must believe the elves would've shown a similar mercy. Sorry friend, but as we've never received confirmation of what became of him from Tolkien, that's what I believe happened to him, not put to death, it banned from ever returning home.
I always thought it was kind of heavy handed how the Valor treated the elves... ordering them to come to Valinor... banishing the ones that left... ordering them back... feels like the elves had to fight for autonomy a bit.
I suspect tolkin was influenced by the book of Genesis And the rest of the Old Testament.I like to think of the New Testament as concerning the loving and forgiving God, while the Old Testament deals with the angry ass-kicking God.
The Valar would agree. They had to learn that lesson the hard way with both kindreds of the Children of Eru. Manwe had to learn the depth of Melkor's corruption and it's consequences in the hearts of the Children they loved. They loved them, but they didn't understand them fully. The results were the Rebellion and Exile of the Noldor, the destruction of Beleriand, and the Downfall of Numenor to finally get it, but they eventually decided to let the Children in Middle Earth decide their own fate. They would not abandon them altogether. Instead they sent emissaries in disguise to unite the Free People of Middle Earth against the last Dark Lord. One emissary succeeded with the help of a couple of Hobbits and a little push from Eru at the end of the line.
@@beatleblevthe Valar had thousands of years to understand these matters, and therefore didn't put the effort in. Sometimes you get fictional characters you despise, and the Valar are those for me. Useless. I'm astonished that Eru illuvatar put up with it.
I know some Numenorians did make it all the way to Valinor. Those that set foot were put to sleep in caves until the Day of Doom. The rest are sleeping with the fishes :)
"The Doom of the World ... One alone can change who made it. And were you so to voyage that escaping all deceits and snares you came indeed to Aman, the Blessed Realm, little would it profit you. For it is not the land of Manwë that makes its people deathless, but the Deathless that dwell therein have hallowed the land; and there you would but wither and grow weary the sooner, as moths in a light too strong and steadfast." What a beautiful point on how its the immortals that dwell in Aman that makes the land so fantastical. I know Tolkein despise allegory, but I cant help but see the connection between that quote and how, in our world, it is the lives and actions of the people living on a land that makes it great not the land itself.
Hey Mr. West, what happened to Bag End when Frodo left? Did he give the deed to Sam? I know that the Sackville Baggins family gave it back to Frodo but I don’t know what happened to the home after that.
@@MenoftheWest Oh awesome!!! I’m glad Frodo did that. Well the Bible does say: “there is a friend who sticks closer than a brother”. (Proverbs 18:24) .When you have a brother like Sam, that means you’re rich. 😎👍🏼. Also Sam deserves that mansion after being bitten by Gollum MULTIPLE times. Yeesh the rabies on that thing lol 😆 .
I believe that at the return of the elves from Middle Earth to Valinor that they must of taken the lands of the different tribes of the Elves (Middle Earth) and recreated them perhaps in the desolate North of that continent. Thus there's perhaps a remade Lothlorien or a remade Rivendale somewhere in that landmass to honour the former dwellings of the Elves of Middle Earth. (maybe).
Where I would want to live in Valinor? Probably on some quiet, lonely place at the cost of Tol Ereseia. Or maybe near the Orome's forrest or gardens of Lorien.
This was fantastic. Thank you! This video, particularly the part of Earendil, made me think a need a video on his father: Tuor, Son of Huor ... My favorite Man in the legendarium at this point. Also I believe the only other Mortal who sailed to Valinor before his son
As I recall Elbereth gather the light from the 2 destroyed towers. Yavanna then sang over them and that is how the 2 trees came to be. Osse many years before hbead anchored the isle of Tol Erresea and that is how the Telperion became the sea elves.(Solisimpi) They eventually built ships and swans pulled the ships to Valinor.
I’d love for a video that goes in depth in explaining what it was actually like living in Valinor and Aman by and large? Would it have unique flora and fauna? Was conscious life different from that in Middle Earth being in such close vicinity to the Valar? I’ve always pictured Valinor something akin to how we remember life through the eyes of our childhood days. When days seemed several times longer. Time seemed to move at an almost crawl. As if things would never change. Happiness an almost constant state of existence. The world still such a mysterious adventure waiting to be explored and embarked upon. 😊
I mistakenly always thought of the undying lands as Tolkien's version of heaven but its clearly not heaven at all but lies somewhere in between the Earth realm and the heavenly realm.
Valinor being separated from the curvature of the Earth after the failed Numenorean invasion makes me think that it must be in space. The ships leaving from the Grey Havens are space ships, and Cirdan is Middle Earth's first astronaut. Yes, I am aware of just how ridiculous this theory is.
Elrond did have the choice to be come High King of the n\oldor but he never did for some reason. Maybe bc he comes from the lineage of all 3 houses of the edain, all 3 clans of the elves and a maia so hes not really full/majority Noldor. Idk tho just a theory
So when frodo, Bilbo gandalf etc sailed to the undying lands could they have potentially met up with elves from the first age ie, finrod? I'm fairly new to tolkeins work so unsure of specifics.
Would you be up to doing a few Tolkien - Middle Earth meta videos? I read Tolkien's "translation" of the medieval poem "Sir Gawain and the Green Knight" and I'm now halfway through a Tolkien-inspired translation of "Beowulf" (Tolkien recommended a few techniques to make the poem relatable to a modern audience, but never got around to actually doing it.) I'm not "into it" enough to do a deep-dive into all the connections, parallels, and inspirations, but I'd gladly watch a "reader's digest" - if that'd be something that interests your audience as well.
I think in Tolkiens world, the Valar have the elves forever in the undying lands. But mortal men have Eru Illuvatar and when men die they go to his house forever in his light
I realised while you were saying the places the Valar has, Tulkas doesn't have a place...What?!!! I found that very hard to believe!!! That was a lovely relaxing video, Mellon on Valinor really makes me relax in my Hobbit Hole!!! (And yes, still in Lockdown Land) Until the Updated ECH on Dain Ironfoot...Marion Baggins Out!!!
The last pocket of Arda uncorrupted by Morgoth's taint...and thus the only place where the Elves can live out their long lives and not suffer the World Weariness. I think the Valar intended to spread out this perfection back out into the world to heal it, but Morgoth's Ring made that impossible after all. Also makes me think the Elves are the product of the Second Theme of the Music when Arda was supposed to be perfect...and when Melkor did his dirty work that birthed Arda Marred, Iluvatar created Mankind in the Third Theme and gifted them their short lives to survive AND thrive in the Marring.
PS> Considering mortal beings can't thrive for long in Valinor, because of the "immortality field" that emanated from the Valar and/or because Valinor was the last pocket of the Spring of Arda, makes me think that Arda Marred was fated to be due to Melkor's "corruption" of the Music, and thus the creation of the Gift of Iluvatar to Mankind, so we could live and be happy in Arda Marred as our natural habitat. Thus the Earth ceased to be the Elves' natural habitat, though they were born in it and loved it, thus Valinor was their only hope for long-term survival to the End of Days. So very sad.
If I lived in Valinor I would be at Lórien, magical garden where Gandalf and Melian learned their magic. Wich Galadriel based her kingdom on, by the way.
I'm curious. Why did Middle-Earth films appear only at the beginning of the decade such as Lord of the Rings (2001), The Hobbit (2012), and this too (2022)?
I have always thought that the Valar overreacted to the Numenorians going West. Great video though. Every time something is brought up about Tolkien's works, you learn something new.
@@timonsolus haha good question. I guess it's a mixture of things. The Elves have everything handed to them. Special treatment from the Valar, long life, beauty, magic, being able to live in both Middle-Earth and Valinor. Men live shorter lives, are affected by illness etc. Then some of them get longer life and an island. All good so far but men are curious by nature and like to explore, as Numenor did. Then the Valar say no, you can't sail West but the Elves can come from Tol Eressia. Now I know what Sauron did etc but what happened was pretty petty. The good guys lost their home and the the world was changed. I reckon Sauron made some valid arguments to the King of Numenor. That's all I'll say haha
The Valar were forbidden by Eru Ilúvatar from acting directly against Men but the Númenóreans still posed a threat to the elves living in the Undying Lands. So, the Valar turned the problem over to Eru Ilúvatar; he's the one who actually destroyed the fleet and Númenór itself.
especially considering it wasn0t part of eru's plan seeing the valar living in their private little paradise with just elves,abandoning men and middle earth
So did Morgoth had any interest in invading and/or destroying Aman and defeating the Valar and Eru, if he had won the War for the Great Jewels and conquered Beleriand and Middle Earth during the First Age?
An excellent video, as always! I can't help but wonder what Ingwe and the Vanyar elves did to occupy their time in Valinor. What do you suppose they did in all those ages? 🤔
I feel like the idea of something that is supposedly eternal in state can't remain unchanged despite effort; things are always influenced externally / the observer is always affected through the act of observation can be applied to Valinor 🤷
They would never let me set foot in the undying lands, cause I would want to live, whereever I can absorb the most personal power...and seeing that dark desire in my heart, even were I not a mortal, be refused entry. T.T
They would never let me in either, because of my intolerance of bull. I'd be endlessly chivvying mandos to stop hedging his bets in his horoscopes. "No, sorry, that's not very clear is it Mandos. Not the first, what exactly do you mean? Who IS going to be the first? Prophecy isn't much use if it's vague."
The only thing I dislike is…it is not being able to die Sure for the first years - I would like it, being in the prime of my life, to enjoy the prospect But….it would imperfect cause I can’t die Personal strife is what makes life interesting and keeps the question of “ what if” alive Has the question of procreation and even if the land is infinite - how many can it hold Or is it put stop
I think mmortality would come with a lot of personal strife. It'd create new problems, issues, 'life'goals and perspectives. Why live, what do, what build, what create, how to live in balance and equillibrium. Those problems would likely also take close to infinity to solve. So I don't think 'not being able to die?' Means losing personal strife
Cause Rivendell didn't have an actual meeting. The Council of Elrond was a council of people who just happened to show up at the same time. None were summoned. Legolas was there to tell Gandalf about how Gollum escapes. Gimli and his dad were there for 2 reasons. To tell Bilbo and Elrond about Saurons forces asking about Baggins and telling them to hand him over. And their other reasons was to hear news about Moria as Moria had gone dark. (Also this would basically be the Dale representation as Dale is next to the Dwarf Kingdom) Boromir had a dream and it told him to go to Rivendell and there he would find the sword that was broken or something and of course this all coincided with Frodo, Aragorn, and co arriving. And of course Gandalf. The only other people Elrond tired to get cause he was sorta close by was Radagast, but elves found his him empty.
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God. Revelation 2:7 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.Revelation 22:2 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. Rev 22:14
@@Enerdhil when sam gamgee returns to bag end. After two weeks away he looks at his master, frodo and realises he is ill. But actually when he dicovers frodo he has passed away. The Ship represents his coffin, the sea aternity, and the ever distant horizon is heaven. So I just don't understand benefit/Reward of the undying lands. Its a holiday and nothing more.
I used to think, "Why would they leave Valinor?? why would elves stay on Middle Earth"...then I realized Valinor is like Heaven..yeah, perfect, but too celestial, too calm... On Earth, life is probably felt more passionate and livelier, even though all the hardships going to Valinor is some kind of transition..from Earthly life and pleasure to a celestial transcendence..being close to Gods must have an effect you can't imagine on Earth...but almost boring in some ways for Elves with all the time in their hands...
Hey everyone, I hope you enjoyed the video! I wanted to add a detail here, it's possible that Tuor and Idril arrived in Valinor after sailing West indeed, as it is told by the traditions of the Eldar and Edain, but there is still speculation regarding their fates at large. Thanks!
I like to think so. I also like to believe that some people simply love the world so much, they should stay on it
@@Enerdhil According to the legend, Tuor is caunt among Eldar after reaching Aman. It make perfect sense. Tolkien never split couples. Lúthien became human and share the same fate with Beren (and stay with him forever). Eärendil choose to be and elf to stay with Elwing. Arwen choose the mortal life and share the same fate with Aragorn. I can though about only one exception - Túrin. If Dagor dagor will happen, he stay in halls of Mandons until this battle. But Tolkien abandoned this concept later. So if Túrin isn't in halls of Mandos, he will be reunited with Nienor after death.
So how knows? Maybe Ilúvatar blessed Tuor with immortal life so he could stay with Idril.
Amandil might have snuck in as well. They just kept it on the low lol
I suppose the best alternative story is that his association with the elves allowed him to live a (relatively) long life with Idril and was given the grace to know and accept that it was his time to journey onward. He did obey Ulmo and deliver the Vala's message to Turgon. He was also prepared to bail on Gondolin when it was time and was a supporter of his bride's secret passage out of the hidden kingdom. I hope his faithfulness to the Valar would allow him to exist wherever his fea felt at home.
We have a Valinor. It’s called Heaven. See You there!
"Don't go where I can't follow"
There's something amazing and fascinating that Tolkien did here
He essentially made heaven a physical place in this world.
Knowing that somewhere in the world is a land of eternal bliss changes the people and how they act and think vs how it was wen it was removed from the world.
Completely and utterly fascinating.
Its a good point...but the Numenorean rebels HAD that land of bliss and even the presence of beings they regarded nearly gods in that world too, and they still tried to march on and conquer it.
@@michaelfisher7170 Exactly! That's wen the shift in thinking occurs; it's like wen the Americans fully explored and settled the west, that vast open last, that garden of eden was no longer there, and it changed the way they thought about life and prosperity
Same with the inhabitants of middle earth
Sam didn't mean Valinor though, hobbits aren't supposed to go there.
@@lmatt88 true, but the quote was in conjunction with the fact that not everyone gets to go there and some must leave loved ones behind
Even tho ultimately Bilbo, Frodo, and Sam ended up there ;)
Valinor is Faerie, not Heaven. Heaven is Arda Remade at the end of time.
According to Tolkien’s writings, right now, in 2022, the Elves we’ve all read about, like Legolas, Elrond, and Galadriel, are still living in the Undying Lands. Frozen in time and with out any significant technological innovation. Riding horses, singing songs, making Lembas bread, practicing archery, now and forever more. Let that sink in.
So.... That doesn't sound like paradise now, does it? For a mortal probably whose spirit is always restless in Arda (Eru made them that way so meh), this is like prison, but just surrounded by beautiful things. Your every day life is like a rewind of your previous days... Unchanging, static, monotonous. There's a reason why the Noldor felt confined in there.
@@ArJay1688 a paradise for elves, a prison for men, more like it. elves are not hardwired to seek changes around them unlike men.
@@ArJay1688I think you are being shortsighted and misunderstand the gift of living in the Valinor. Here you either have or find the Love of your life, make deep, joyful friendships, and have beautiful, talented children. Time is no longer a consideration; you can now enjoy your life as you wish. The land has plains, forests, mountains, lakes, rivers & oceans. The food you learn to grow & meals that you can learn to cook that are not only extremely delicious but very healthy; the songs you can learn to sing and musical instruments you can learn to play have no limits. You can grow and make your own textiles. Whether wool, silks cotton, etc, and design & spin it into cloth and articles of clothing for yourself or others as gifts. Every day the joy of waking up next to your love, making love and reveling in each other’s laughter and wit. Becoming friends with the animals, the birds, the trees, and all life, every single day is a new wonder, a new gift and joy of a happy, fulfilling life with more and more joy than you could ever imagine.❤❤
And the ship went out into the High Sea and passed into the West, until at last on a night of rain Frodo smelled a sweet fragrance on the air and heard the sound of singing that came over the water. And then it seemed to him that as in his dream in the house of Bombadil, the grey rain-curtain turned all to silver glass and was rolled back, and he beheld white shores and beyond them a far green country under a swift sunrise.
- JRR Tolkien
Considering that the Surviving members of the fellowship like Bilbo, Frodo and Gimli were invited to spend their final days in peace and good cheer before passing on, could Valinor be considered a gate to heaven as it were?
I would say so Randy!
The Halls of Mandos are. At least for Men. Elves and Dwarves aren't allowed.
@@hydradominatus3641 Actually there are Elves residing in the Halls of Mandos but in a different region of the Halls from Mortal Men. They either reside there till the end of Arda days or they can be released and given a second life in Eldamar or before the 4th age could journey back to Middle Earth. For example Glorfindel was reincarnated. He was alive in the first age and died in the defence of Gondolin. Then the Valar gave him permission to leave and once again he returned to Middle Earth. He attended the Council of Elrond in 3018 of the third age.
@@Alexs.2599 I'm talking about The Halls of Mandos being a "Gateway to Heaven" beyond the confines of Arda.
@@Enerdhil "Do not despair. For we are not bound to this world. And beyond it is more than memory. Farewell." - Aragorn
Man I dont think that I've ever heard of a more peacefull and more relaxing place than Valinor, man what a name!!!!
Yoystan as always amazing video!!!!!
Eärendil chose his fate in the Blessed Realm and could no longer reside in mortal realms whereas Men couldn't reside in the Blessed Realm. Manwë's messengers to the Númenóreans brought up a good point about the Undying Lands doesn't make one deathless, it's the deathless that dwell therein have hallowed the land. The Númenóreans would only spurn the Gift of Men by usurping Valinor and they were ungrateful.
To be cut a away from the world forever and from love and pain and and an ability to know and to see the other beings of the world(to clarify any beings other than men), even in such a world that is what death is, no master could ever be good enough for such not to be a curse in my eyes. For them to think themselves so speaks to a level of arrogance almost impossible for a man to swallow let alone admire.
@@Sara3346 But at the same time, its understandable. You see, how long can any man stay faithful in front of constant temptation? The Valars monumental mistake was to put Numenor in sight of Valinor. To put a place where there is no hurt, cold, illness, injury or death in sight of people that have to deal with the hardship of life on the daily basis inevitable brews rebellion.
@@Greendalewitch What they should have done was place Numenor in the Far East, but I guess it would have been harder to get there for the Edain.
I was also the first pilot of Arda just saying...
i dont' think it would be easy to not feel robbed off seeing elves being pampered since their awakening( remebr numenor was given only AFTER men fought and died against morgoth) , immortal, fairest and wiset of all the creature, and allowed to go to a undyig land ,a paradise ,free from pain and corruoption morgoth and sauorn left ... while some immortal valar who neevr showed personally to men say "death" is a gift and you are not allowed to see the most beatiful and blessed lands of arda ,nor being guided and teached by valar..it just sounds patronzing. it semems a mix valar's ignorance of man nature and faovirtism towards elves since the beggining of the ages
Channels like this will explode when the series comes out.
Men of the west, you should totally make a discord server for ur channel! People could use this to talk about anything Tolkien, make theories, and give you vid ideas! Let me know if you decide to do this, and if you need help with anything, let me know :)
Thanks for the idea, my friend! The channel actually has one already! It's Patron-exclusive however, to keep it moderated!
This was perfectly timed for me. I just finished The Silmarillion again, and was (once again) blown away by how incredible everything about that book is.
Thank you so much for making this video, it really gave me comfort. 🥺💗🙏 I've been painfully abused last night from a much older brother who has completely lost his mind and his own sense of right and wrong. Especially for the way he has mistreated me and my two other brothers for the last few years, he was very cruel to us! He clearly does not care about his own family, like the way I do. 🥺💔 So, when that video came out this morning, I was very glad and reliefed. This has given me a strong relief from the sorrows I had to endure. 🥺😔
I’m so sorry Gevie, that is something no one should have to endure. My heart goes out to you and your family, and I really hope things get better.
@@MenoftheWest Thank you Yoystan, that really means alot! I really hope things will get better soon too. 🥺😭💗
Bless you! So sorry you had to endure that. No one deserves that kind of abuse, especially from your own flesh and blood.
@@Alexs.2599 Of course no one does and thank you. 🥺
@@geviesanta3631 You're welcome my friend cheers to you. Exactly no one does.
With our world seemingly falling apart, I wouldn't mind if I were invited to dwell with the Valar in Valinor or the Eldar in Eldamar in peace and bliss. Aman awaits.
Stand and fight for what you deem worthy. There are no easy invitations out.
@@lulunuyear8809 “It is not our part to master all the tides of the world, but to do what is in us for the succour of those years wherein we are set, uprooting the evil in the fields that we know, so that those who live after may have clean earth to till. What weather they shall have is not ours to rule”
the rapture is soon friend
Jesus is coming! get saved now!
if so you can be raptured to heaven!
which is undying!!
great tribulation is coming!!!
do not be left behind!!
Heaven is even greater than any undying land!! for it is a kingdom
above all! high above any land!!
where streets are gold, and everything is a rainbow glittering gem!
at least thats what some say who dreamt of it
"So would all who live to see such times. But that is not for us to decide "
@@oofouchmybones Very true.
Great video as always dude! Interesting to learn more about Valinor. Your vids have been fantastic for digging deeper into Tolkien
Frodo, come on down! You’ve won a three week vacation to Valinor! Thanks for playing the Price Is Right!-the gods
It's unlikely that Frodo ever made it to Valinor itself. He was probably in Tol Eresëa.
There might of been a second ship, if Tuor and Idril were successful in reaching Valinor.
Yeah maybe so. It was never really revealed what actually happened to them. But it has been suggested that Tuor and Idril did make it to Valinor and that Tuor, while a Mortal man, was counted among the first born there afterwards. So the Valar through Eru granted him immortality in Aman.
@@Enerdhil No they settled on the actual continent of Aman. They were allowed to live in Valinor.
@@Enerdhil It's somewhere in Tolkien's notes. Christopher Tolkien mentioned that his father stated that Eru granted this to Tuor because he was destined to find Gondolin and his role as the father of Earendil. He also had more of the characteristics of the Eldar than the Edain. No other full Mortal Man was ever granted this honor. It was intimated that he and Idril lived in Eldamar ever which on Aman.
@@Enerdhil Yes exactly. Tuor's story is very unique and one of a kind. No other full blooded Mortal Man was ever given this choice. The closest would be Elros, Elrond, Arwen and her brothers Elladan and Elrorir. But of course they were so called " Half Elves". They had significant Elvish ancestry along with their Mortal and Maiar blood. But yeah Tuor's story was an only one man in Arda's history occurrence.
@@Enerdhil Indeed it does my friend. Tuor and Idril lived in happiness together in Eldamar for all time. I like to think they met their grandson Elrond when he sailed to Valinor with Bilbo, Frodo, Galadriel and Gandalf after the war of the ring in 3021. He was then reunited with his wife Celebrian the daughter of Galadriel and Celeborn.
I've always enjoyed the forest. I think I'd want to hang out with Orome.
You have the best Tolkien UA-cam channel, but one subject I wish you'd explore more is Gandalf's origin; not as a maiar of Manwe, but as an acolyte of Nienna and a figure of deep wisdom and mercy. In the Undying Lands, how did Olorin gain the nuance to appreciate the hobbits while Aiwendil, for example, was so one-dimensional?
Also, looking at Gandalf as a literary figure outside of the Legendarium, he is a clear stand-in for Odin. Talking about the connections with the Norse (and other) pantheons would be really interesting.
Thanks for a great channel.
To be able to explore all of Valinor would make one’s life very complete. To live amongst the Gods and Elves would be magical
Great video by the way
The way Tolkien wrote the Valar, no, I wouldn't want to live with them. I find them all intensely annoying characters. Especially Mandos, who comes across like a two-bit medium with his vague prophecies
These videos are always amazing.
I was always under the impression that when Frodo, Bilbo and Gimli went to the undying lands they became immortal. But, based on yours and other videos i watched. That doesn't appear to be the case. I figured that was part of the reward for being allowed to sail there.
Indeed! They were still subject to their dooms as granted by Eru, regardless of where they dwelt.
No they might have been given a longer life on Tol Eressea as a gift for being in the fellowship which led to the destruction of the Ring. But still in the end Frodo, Bilbo, Sam and Gimli were mortals who were destined to die, and afterwards their spirits would reside in the Halls of Mandos. Then after a period of time would leave the circles of Arda and reside eternally somewhere else, perhaps the timeless halls with Eru. Gimli's fate we don't know about because he was a Dwarf. But after the last battle with Morgoth Tolkien stated that the Dwarves will have their place among the Children of Eru.
It must've been an amazing, but extremely short adventure.
@@malcolmt7883 Indeed so.
I always feel like if they were given the choice of immortality, Bilbo would refuse. I believe his curiousness to see the world beyond Arda would make him refuse it. Frodo and Sam would want to see their friends again someday. Gimli I believe would be the only one who would accept the gift due to his friendship to Legolas and the elves.
I love Valinor. I'm very interested to see how much we are going to see in the show.
The little bit we've seen is glorious, as it should be. Particularly when the elves enter Valinor in the first episode!
You know what is truly undying?
My love for you.
Simple:)
I like to think that Amandil was commended for his selfless actions in warning Valinor, but punished for breaking the Ban on Valior, not by death, nor imprisonment in a dungeon, but simply banned from ever leaving Valinor, thus punishing him by keeping him from his family.
@@Enerdhil hm, maybe... but they let Gimli live in Valinor tho, no?
@@Enerdhil except Ar-Pharazon arrived to Valinor with wicked intent, to conquer and destroy in a foolish and greedy attempt to deny the inevitable, his own mortality.
Amandil arrived with pure intentions, to warn Valinor of the coming attack by Ar-Pharazon's Army, knowing full well that he risked death in doing so, I'm not convinced of his demise...
@@Enerdhil except there have been many exceptions in the laws of Middle-Earth, Beregond killed some of Denathor's guards while he and Pippin saved Faramir, after Aragon was crowned, Beregond was to be judged for his actions, and under normal circumstances would've been put to death, but King Elessar showed mercy, as Beregond's actions were to save Faramir, so Beregond was simply banned from ever returning to the White City.
Amandil's actions were to save Valinor, so I must believe the elves would've shown a similar mercy.
Sorry friend, but as we've never received confirmation of what became of him from Tolkien, that's what I believe happened to him, not put to death, it banned from ever returning home.
@@Enerdhil Eru possibly can guid him through The Enchanted Isles.
@@Enerdhil Why Amandil couldn't reach Aman before Ar-Pharazon? Amandil went on journey first.
What I would not give to see the Land of Aman with my own eyes...
Too bad mortals were banned from even looking on it. Men seem to have a very low place in the minds of the Valar
Still can’t quite decide if I’d live there if I could
I always thought it was kind of heavy handed how the Valor treated the elves... ordering them to come to Valinor... banishing the ones that left... ordering them back... feels like the elves had to fight for autonomy a bit.
I suspect tolkin was influenced by the book of Genesis And the rest of the Old Testament.I like to think of the New Testament as concerning the loving and forgiving God, while the Old Testament deals with the angry ass-kicking God.
The Valar would agree. They had to learn that lesson the hard way with both kindreds of the Children of Eru. Manwe had to learn the depth of Melkor's corruption and it's consequences in the hearts of the Children they loved. They loved them, but they didn't understand them fully. The results were the Rebellion and Exile of the Noldor, the destruction of Beleriand, and the Downfall of Numenor to finally get it, but they eventually decided to let the Children in Middle Earth decide their own fate. They would not abandon them altogether. Instead they sent emissaries in disguise to unite the Free People of Middle Earth against the last Dark Lord. One emissary succeeded with the help of a couple of Hobbits and a little push from Eru at the end of the line.
@@beatleblevthe Valar had thousands of years to understand these matters, and therefore didn't put the effort in. Sometimes you get fictional characters you despise, and the Valar are those for me. Useless.
I'm astonished that Eru illuvatar put up with it.
I know some Numenorians did make it all the way to Valinor. Those that set foot were put to sleep in caves until the Day of Doom. The rest are sleeping with the fishes :)
"The Doom of the World ... One alone can change who made it. And were you so to voyage that escaping all deceits and snares you came indeed to Aman, the Blessed Realm, little would it profit you. For it is not the land of Manwë that makes its people deathless, but the Deathless that dwell therein have hallowed the land; and there you would but wither and grow weary the sooner, as moths in a light too strong and steadfast."
What a beautiful point on how its the immortals that dwell in Aman that makes the land so fantastical. I know Tolkein despise allegory, but I cant help but see the connection between that quote and how, in our world, it is the lives and actions of the people living on a land that makes it great not the land itself.
The image in the thumbnail is beautifully evocative.
Woohoo, thanks for uploading :)
Awesome video,excited for the new lotr prime series !
Great video as always. 👌🏻
Great Video My Friend.
Great video man
North for the shores of Valinor
Our bows and crimson sails were made
Our captains were strong, our lances long
And our liege the holy king
I enjoyed this region spotlight thank you
Hey Mr. West, what happened to Bag End when Frodo left? Did he give the deed to Sam? I know that the Sackville Baggins family gave it back to Frodo but I don’t know what happened to the home after that.
Great question, indeed he left the house to Sam and his family!
@@MenoftheWest Oh awesome!!! I’m glad Frodo did that. Well the Bible does say: “there is a friend who sticks closer than a brother”. (Proverbs 18:24) .When you have a brother like Sam, that means you’re rich. 😎👍🏼. Also Sam deserves that mansion after being bitten by Gollum MULTIPLE times. Yeesh the rabies on that thing lol 😆 .
There's a theory floating around that Frodo and Sam were gay. Piggy backing off of dumbledore maybe?
Gave it to Sam. Then Sam to his Family before he sailed West to see Frodo again because he was a Ring Bearer.
@@davidstoyanoff what? No!!
I believe that at the return of the elves from Middle Earth to Valinor that they must of taken the lands of the different tribes of the Elves (Middle Earth) and recreated them perhaps in the desolate North of that continent.
Thus there's perhaps a remade Lothlorien or a remade Rivendale somewhere in that landmass to honour the former dwellings of the Elves of Middle Earth. (maybe).
Where I would want to live in Valinor? Probably on some quiet, lonely place at the cost of Tol Ereseia. Or maybe near the Orome's forrest or gardens of Lorien.
Another lovely video. Thank you 😊
This video made me wonder all the occasions that Eru directly acted in Arda. That might be a cool video idea.
This was fantastic. Thank you! This video, particularly the part of Earendil, made me think a need a video on his father: Tuor, Son of Huor ... My favorite Man in the legendarium at this point. Also I believe the only other Mortal who sailed to Valinor before his son
As I recall Elbereth gather the light from the 2 destroyed towers. Yavanna then sang over them and that is how the 2 trees came to be. Osse many years before hbead anchored the isle of Tol Erresea and that is how the Telperion became the sea elves.(Solisimpi) They eventually built ships and swans pulled the ships to Valinor.
I’d love for a video that goes in depth in explaining what it was actually like living in Valinor and Aman by and large? Would it have unique flora and fauna? Was conscious life different from that in Middle Earth being in such close vicinity to the Valar?
I’ve always pictured Valinor something akin to how we remember life through the eyes of our childhood days. When days seemed several times longer. Time seemed to move at an almost crawl. As if things would never change. Happiness an almost constant state of existence. The world still such a mysterious adventure waiting to be explored and embarked upon. 😊
I like to think that all the ring bearers that went to Aman travelled to the Timeless Halls of Ilúvatar after they passed.
I mistakenly always thought of the undying lands as Tolkien's version of heaven but its clearly not heaven at all but lies somewhere in between the Earth realm and the heavenly realm.
Hello yoysten!
Hey buddy!
@@MenoftheWest I'd imagine Tol Eressea would glow in the sunset as you approached Valinor. That is where I want to go.
Great video, really enjoyed it 👊.
cool video Yoystan i enjoyed it
Its a interesting period. I Always wanted a tv serie about it.
Valinor being separated from the curvature of the Earth after the failed Numenorean invasion makes me think that it must be in space. The ships leaving from the Grey Havens are space ships, and Cirdan is Middle Earth's first astronaut. Yes, I am aware of just how ridiculous this theory is.
Thankyou for this; i needed it.
I have an idea for a future video. Why wasn't Elrond King of The Noldor after the death of Gil-Galad?
Great idea!
@@MenoftheWest Thanks. I'm not even sure about the answer. Maybe you could shed some insight.
Elrond did have the choice to be come High King of the n\oldor but he never did for some reason. Maybe bc he comes from the lineage of all 3 houses of the edain, all 3 clans of the elves and a maia so hes not really full/majority Noldor. Idk tho just a theory
@@vainor797 I'm leaning towards there not being many Noldor left to rule. Most where leaving to Valinor.
Because Galadriel was the High Queen in all but name.
So when frodo, Bilbo gandalf etc sailed to the undying lands could they have potentially met up with elves from the first age ie, finrod? I'm fairly new to tolkeins work so unsure of specifics.
I bet ur making this cause it is the setting of the show! Also, I rlly hope Melkor is in the show!
Great video to watch
You did a great video MOTW.
I feel that it's a clear allegory of Heaven, a place where there is no death
Would you be up to doing a few Tolkien - Middle Earth meta videos? I read Tolkien's "translation" of the medieval poem "Sir Gawain and the Green Knight" and I'm now halfway through a Tolkien-inspired translation of "Beowulf" (Tolkien recommended a few techniques to make the poem relatable to a modern audience, but never got around to actually doing it.) I'm not "into it" enough to do a deep-dive into all the connections, parallels, and inspirations, but I'd gladly watch a "reader's digest" - if that'd be something that interests your audience as well.
Seamus Heaney's translation of Beowulf is very accessible, and is widely regarded as the best.
I think in Tolkiens world, the Valar have the elves forever in the undying lands. But mortal men have Eru Illuvatar and when men die they go to his house forever in his light
Tol Eressea perhaps has parallels with Avalon
Anywhere in Valinor would be too gorgeous for my mortal mind to take
I realised while you were saying the places the Valar has, Tulkas doesn't have a place...What?!!! I found that very hard to believe!!!
That was a lovely relaxing video, Mellon on Valinor really makes me relax in my Hobbit Hole!!! (And yes, still in Lockdown Land)
Until the Updated ECH on Dain Ironfoot...Marion Baggins Out!!!
@UCh1CPEleSKAWyaW2Pp27teQ I thought he does...Tolkien why did you forget that?!!!
@@Enerdhil That's sounds Awesome!!!
Right?? I think he had an underground gym or something :P
@@MenoftheWest Mellon, I thought he would have at least something...
The last pocket of Arda uncorrupted by Morgoth's taint...and thus the only place where the Elves can live out their long lives and not suffer the World Weariness. I think the Valar intended to spread out this perfection back out into the world to heal it, but Morgoth's Ring made that impossible after all. Also makes me think the Elves are the product of the Second Theme of the Music when Arda was supposed to be perfect...and when Melkor did his dirty work that birthed Arda Marred, Iluvatar created Mankind in the Third Theme and gifted them their short lives to survive AND thrive in the Marring.
PS> Considering mortal beings can't thrive for long in Valinor, because of the "immortality field" that emanated from the Valar and/or because Valinor was the last pocket of the Spring of Arda, makes me think that Arda Marred was fated to be due to Melkor's "corruption" of the Music, and thus the creation of the Gift of Iluvatar to Mankind, so we could live and be happy in Arda Marred as our natural habitat. Thus the Earth ceased to be the Elves' natural habitat, though they were born in it and loved it, thus Valinor was their only hope for long-term survival to the End of Days. So very sad.
Morgoth's ring??
Beautiful! ❤️
If I lived in Valinor I would be at Lórien, magical garden where Gandalf and Melian learned their magic. Wich Galadriel based her kingdom on, by the way.
6:36 Tuor and Idril sailed to the Undying Lands before their son Eärendil.
The closest places that resembles a fraction of Valinor must be Rivendell, The Grey Havens and especially Lothlorien.
Gondolin was probably the closest place that resemble Valinor, because it was build as image of Tirion.
@@bedlaskybedla6361 Didn't Doriath also resembles Valinor because of the magical Girdle of Melian?
@@Imperialistic82 Girdle of Melian is invisible protection barier.
@@bedlaskybedla6361 Yeah I know, but the place must have a enchanted aura like Lothlorien.
nope,it's actually lothlorien
Ty ty as always
I'm curious. Why did Middle-Earth films appear only at the beginning of the decade such as Lord of the Rings (2001), The Hobbit (2012), and this too (2022)?
I have always thought that the Valar overreacted to the Numenorians going West. Great video though. Every time something is brought up about Tolkien's works, you learn something new.
Why do you think that?
@@timonsolus haha good question. I guess it's a mixture of things. The Elves have everything handed to them. Special treatment from the Valar, long life, beauty, magic, being able to live in both Middle-Earth and Valinor. Men live shorter lives, are affected by illness etc. Then some of them get longer life and an island. All good so far but men are curious by nature and like to explore, as Numenor did. Then the Valar say no, you can't sail West but the Elves can come from Tol Eressia. Now I know what Sauron did etc but what happened was pretty petty. The good guys lost their home and the the world was changed. I reckon Sauron made some valid arguments to the King of Numenor. That's all I'll say haha
The Valar were forbidden by Eru Ilúvatar from acting directly against Men but the Númenóreans still posed a threat to the elves living in the Undying Lands. So, the Valar turned the problem over to Eru Ilúvatar; he's the one who actually destroyed the fleet and Númenór itself.
especially considering it wasn0t part of eru's plan seeing the valar living in their private little paradise with just elves,abandoning men and middle earth
I seriously don't know why they don't make a series about valinor and before the war of wrath and the war of wrath.
I wonder what Gimli's reaction to meeting Aule and vice versa in Valinar. Can you do a video on that please?
Such a good question and with that I'd like to know what all the Valar thought of Gandalph being the only wizard to complete his task.
@@mark0551I think the Valar wouldn't have given it much thought to be honest.
So did Morgoth had any interest in invading and/or destroying Aman and defeating the Valar and Eru, if he had won the War for the Great Jewels and conquered Beleriand and Middle Earth during the First Age?
An excellent video, as always! I can't help but wonder what Ingwe and the Vanyar elves did to occupy their time in Valinor. What do you suppose they did in all those ages? 🤔
Singing. Telling Varda how lovely she looks this morning. Trying to guess what the soothsayer Mandos is getting at in today's horoscope
I am thinking that the picture from the new series might be of Melkor before Ungoliant attacked the Trees.
Wow if try 3 or 6 sequioa trees hybrid umbrella tree(or is it mushroom) wood, maybe become like that at 2mins+?
Oh, we will see them
What is beyond Valinor? I wish they could show Valinor in any of the new live action adaptations.
I hoped will finally see Valinor in the upcoming Lord Of The Rings TV series.
I feel like the idea of something that is supposedly eternal in state can't remain unchanged despite effort; things are always influenced externally / the observer is always affected through the act of observation can be applied to Valinor 🤷
They would never let me set foot in the undying lands, cause I would want to live, whereever I can absorb the most personal power...and seeing that dark desire in my heart, even were I not a mortal, be refused entry. T.T
They would never let me in either, because of my intolerance of bull. I'd be endlessly chivvying mandos to stop hedging his bets in his horoscopes. "No, sorry, that's not very clear is it Mandos. Not the first, what exactly do you mean? Who IS going to be the first? Prophecy isn't much use if it's vague."
Dáin (like dah-in) not Dain (like dane). Keep up the great work!
If God and Heaven should exist, I hope it’s like Valinor.
I agree
I wonder if valinor will be shown and future seasons of rings of power ? I don't think we'll see the valar at all . They are adapting it .
The only thing I dislike is…it is not being able to die
Sure for the first years - I would like it, being in the prime of my life, to enjoy the prospect
But….it would imperfect cause I can’t die
Personal strife is what makes life interesting and keeps the question of “ what if” alive
Has the question of procreation and even if the land is infinite - how many can it hold
Or is it put stop
I think mmortality would come with a lot of personal strife. It'd create new problems, issues, 'life'goals and perspectives. Why live, what do, what build, what create, how to live in balance and equillibrium. Those problems would likely also take close to infinity to solve.
So I don't think 'not being able to die?' Means losing personal strife
I always thought of The Undying Lands appearance as Rivendell but on steroids
Imagine an Elden Ring style game in Valinor.
Why did Rohan or the men of dale not send delegation to Rivendell?
Cause Rivendell didn't have an actual meeting. The Council of Elrond was a council of people who just happened to show up at the same time. None were summoned.
Legolas was there to tell Gandalf about how Gollum escapes.
Gimli and his dad were there for 2 reasons. To tell Bilbo and Elrond about Saurons forces asking about Baggins and telling them to hand him over. And their other reasons was to hear news about Moria as Moria had gone dark. (Also this would basically be the Dale representation as Dale is next to the Dwarf Kingdom)
Boromir had a dream and it told him to go to Rivendell and there he would find the sword that was broken or something
and of course this all coincided with Frodo, Aragorn, and co arriving.
And of course Gandalf.
The only other people Elrond tired to get cause he was sorta close by was Radagast, but elves found his him empty.
God damn i really want to but i cant keep up with the nerd-lore, i gotta watch this four times
Did the Valar granted Frodo, Bilbo and Sam Gamgee the gift of immortality like Tuor?
No, they simply live out their mortal days
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God. Revelation 2:7
In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.Revelation 22:2
Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. Rev 22:14
The identity of Tom and Goldberry are revealed on my channel, honestly!
In the undying lands there is no doom. Frodo should of been given immortality.
Alexis that seems very obvious to me. I never assumed otherwise
@@Enerdhil when sam gamgee returns to bag end. After two weeks away he looks at his master, frodo and realises he is ill. But actually when he dicovers frodo he has passed away. The Ship represents his coffin, the sea aternity, and the ever distant horizon is heaven. So I just don't understand benefit/Reward of the undying lands. Its a holiday and nothing more.
@@Enerdhil well iam Sunday times man, obituary's inspire me.
I guess it was impossible to leave the Halls of Mandos, so no man could enter Valinor in this way, either
I used to think, "Why would they leave Valinor?? why would elves stay on Middle Earth"...then I realized Valinor is like Heaven..yeah, perfect, but too celestial, too calm... On Earth, life is probably felt more passionate and livelier, even though all the hardships going to Valinor is some kind of transition..from Earthly life and pleasure to a celestial transcendence..being close to Gods must have an effect you can't imagine on Earth...but almost boring in some ways for Elves with all the time in their hands...
Hey sorry for the random question but I'm really confused here. Is grey heavens in Hobbit the same place as valinor? Lmk if yk please
@@user-kg3ug8xu1x grey havens was the sea port for elves to go to Valinor
What would of happened had Bilbo told Gandalf about the Ring and how do you think that would have played out for middle earth
What do you mean? He did tell Bilbo about the ring. In fact his lie made Gandalf more suspicious than if he had simply told the truth
@@stevesmith1383 no shit that's why it's a what if kind of question...
At 1.5 speed you sound a lot like Jesse Eisenberg! Funny!
There’s lots of fun in Valinor, and you can’t come.
Stay away from the Lung Map. It's about as accurate as Stevie Wonder with a crossbow atood on a spinning turntable.