Cities Skylines 2, but I can only use DIRT ROADS!

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  • Опубліковано 12 чер 2024
  • We're checking out Cities Skylines 2 (City Skyline 2) today, and what better way to do it than to build a city on dirt and gravel roads!
    LINKS!
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    STREAM ARCHIVE: / @realcivilengineerarchive
    Epic Game Store Support-A-Creator Code: RCE
    (In connection with Epic Games’ Support-A-Creator Program, I may receive a commission from certain in-game purchases)
    #realcivilengineer #CitiesSkylines2
  • Ігри

КОМЕНТАРІ • 503

  • @DoubleSmackJacksSmackAttack
    @DoubleSmackJacksSmackAttack 6 місяців тому +761

    Dirt roads really should have covered/uncovered wooden bridges for their default bridge setup, devs really dropped the ball on that one.

    • @mateusfccp
      @mateusfccp 6 місяців тому +104

      Not only that, dirt roads are very common in rural villages, and in those everything is different. There's basically no high density residences, they are low or medium, no offices, commerces are different and people work in the surrounding farms.
      CS should adapt to this rural reality and allow the player to build rural villages, it would be very nice

    • @vitormanuelfernandes5353
      @vitormanuelfernandes5353 6 місяців тому +18

      ya the game is unfinished

    • @dovahseod
      @dovahseod 6 місяців тому +14

      @@mateusfccpyou can build farms, minimal commercial buildings, and only a few low density buildings if you want? Farms employ quite a few people

    • @mateusfccp
      @mateusfccp 6 місяців тому +8

      @@dovahseod Yeah, I am just saying about the details... For instance, in this video, the low density residences, although directly in contact with dirt roads, had non-dirt flooring in the garage etc (don't know the material, concrete? asphalt?)
      Also, the demands could be balanced based on the rural context of the village

    • @Aftmost17
      @Aftmost17 6 місяців тому +18

      ​@@mateusfccpmake it a mod and call it rural skylines lol

  • @PerfectTangent
    @PerfectTangent 6 місяців тому +300

    Can you imagine a dirt road grid? As a resident of New Mexico and formerly of Arizona and Nevada, yes, yes I can.

    • @tul5124
      @tul5124 6 місяців тому +15

      My first thought was, "he's never been to the Midwest."

    • @asdalotl
      @asdalotl 6 місяців тому +3

      my dad's town in rural Louisiana also has a dirt road grid on about half the town! it really is a hassle when it rains

    • @hoodyboy6741
      @hoodyboy6741 6 місяців тому

      You just made the capital of India xD

    • @RDKSP33DY
      @RDKSP33DY 6 місяців тому

      Colorado too 😂

    • @domtoretto4116
      @domtoretto4116 6 місяців тому

      @@hoodyboy6741Wtf are you on about? Do you live in a village in the desert?

  • @georgeratcliffe7752
    @georgeratcliffe7752 6 місяців тому +324

    Now you need to use excessively large roads!

    • @apr0l
      @apr0l 6 місяців тому +45

      This would be just an average US city

    • @tvorogmoloko7969
      @tvorogmoloko7969 6 місяців тому +4

      I do this all the time trying to avoid traffic problems but still suck with 6-lane roads in every yard

    • @stevenjlovelace
      @stevenjlovelace 6 місяців тому +6

      Houston?

    • @kyokazuto
      @kyokazuto 6 місяців тому +3

      Highways everywhere lol

    • @HuntergamerbenOfficial
      @HuntergamerbenOfficial 2 місяці тому

      the true problem their is expenses

  • @novanance
    @novanance 6 місяців тому +41

    Someone needs to show him pre-automobile NYC. Skyscrapers and dirt roads were a thing lol

  • @pelpikx
    @pelpikx 6 місяців тому +679

    Finally, he actually does something realistic!

    • @user-lh9uh9pb2j
      @user-lh9uh9pb2j 6 місяців тому +16

      I know right

    • @kikif1509
      @kikif1509 6 місяців тому +38

      He does have a practical city, it is on pateron :)

    • @taylor....
      @taylor.... 6 місяців тому +5

      Builds dirt roads for a new city. YEAH! totally

    • @eleonoraisaia6788
      @eleonoraisaia6788 6 місяців тому

      See water

    • @mikaslaets-yu3yg
      @mikaslaets-yu3yg 6 місяців тому +2

      As a Belgan I can agree

  • @RyGuyTheAVGuy
    @RyGuyTheAVGuy 6 місяців тому +19

    2:05 Engineer casually forgetting about the people that BUILD the things.

  • @mttmortensen527
    @mttmortensen527 6 місяців тому +167

    Man, if it wasn't for Matt and his content, I never would've discovered my love for these strategy games. Thank you, sire

    • @FavoredGames
      @FavoredGames 6 місяців тому

      Same

    • @abyssal_phoenix
      @abyssal_phoenix 6 місяців тому +2

      I think you're referring to city builder games?
      Strategy games are quite a different genre but I think i get you
      Games like this or timberborn are quite dependent on some form strategic building, right?
      And if that's the case then same :)
      I found timberborn etc through rce as well

  • @xapientiae2268
    @xapientiae2268 6 місяців тому +64

    what about a city whose roads are 100% hexagon shape (varying sizes allowed) and there are no intersections or roundabouts that have more than 3 roads (so that the city looks like a beehive)

    • @wrexkhavok8809
      @wrexkhavok8809 6 місяців тому +3

      ayy he ended up doing this

    • @xapientiae2268
      @xapientiae2268 6 місяців тому +2

      @@wrexkhavok8809 yeah, probably I inspired him but he made triangles later so it doesn't count

  • @Thurgood-HB-Jenkins
    @Thurgood-HB-Jenkins 6 місяців тому +13

    There is NO SINGLE channel that gives me as much pleasure in Cities Skylines as yours. There are many good channels that build incredibly great cities and give me countless tips and tricks, but to give me a lot of laughs in this building simulator in a humorous way is unique. Many thanks and greetings from Bremen/Germany

  • @taylor....
    @taylor.... 6 місяців тому +18

    If you have a garage and driveway and still park on the road, there is a special place in hell for you too

  • @amal3808
    @amal3808 6 місяців тому +47

    Beautiful map and the dirt road gave it a nice vibe. The wonky road on mountainous terrains will surely give exciting ride. Next video idea, build a city in the mountains without flattening the ground

  • @tolotos95
    @tolotos95 6 місяців тому +128

    12:08 "... don't know, how big a kilometer is..."
    Is Matt actually an American?!😱😱😱

    • @louisurquhart9466
      @louisurquhart9466 6 місяців тому +27

      uk uses miles is the issue

    • @makimaki500
      @makimaki500 6 місяців тому +13

      ​@@louisurquhart9466they use both, it depends

    • @GrubHuncher
      @GrubHuncher 6 місяців тому +17

      That’s a Mandela Effect. Tons of people falsely “remember” the British using metric when in reality they mostly use imperial like us.

    • @user-lh9uh9pb2j
      @user-lh9uh9pb2j 6 місяців тому +3

      More like is matt an engeneer

    • @amppari_234
      @amppari_234 6 місяців тому +6

      ​@@GrubHuncherthey use both.

  • @hans_pixel-me5mx
    @hans_pixel-me5mx 6 місяців тому +53

    I'm really surprised that they didn't add a follow terrain road tool. That would be awesome.

    • @takumi2023
      @takumi2023 6 місяців тому +1

      That would be hard to automate. The terrain tool helps enough that you can follow the contours.

    • @raznaak
      @raznaak 6 місяців тому +3

      ​@@takumi2023Not really.
      They could just add that option, and instead of being straight or you control the curve, the "Follow terrain" tool just makes the smoothest curve along the terrain, if it is on the same level of the last waypoint it simply follows the same terrain level, and if it's on different levels it makes the slope with the mildest angle while following the terrain.
      It isn't hard to do with the tools they already made in the game.

  • @rpgaholic8202
    @rpgaholic8202 6 місяців тому +88

    "We are complaining about not enough water and not being able to poo, even though no one lives there." Matt, the builders are humans too.

    • @ThorMoore
      @ThorMoore 6 місяців тому +9

      My thoughts exactly. But don’t they have Porta-potties?

    • @abyssal_phoenix
      @abyssal_phoenix 6 місяців тому +2

      Why does porta potties sound so cute
      Way better than dixie

  • @isaacgonzo
    @isaacgonzo 6 місяців тому +20

    from one extreme of all dirt roads, how bout to the other, with all 6 lane highways? Or my other idea of all straight roads. No curves at all, all roads havta go east/west and north/south, you can change the entry road to how you like it, but from there roads havta be parallel and perpendicular from it. Like a grid city, but even the roads to the water intake, and poo outake havta be done in straight lines going 90°

    • @saltiney8578
      @saltiney8578 6 місяців тому +1

      so just a normal american city?

  • @atomic...
    @atomic... 6 місяців тому +107

    Technically you didn't fail the challenge as it was to use only dirt roads, not dirt bridges.

    • @usshared1649
      @usshared1649 6 місяців тому +2

      Is a bridge a road? 🤔

    • @atomic...
      @atomic... 6 місяців тому +2

      Ummm yes an no? Think were getting into technicalities.

    • @krystiankowalski7335
      @krystiankowalski7335 6 місяців тому +5

      @@atomic...Well of course you’re getting into technicalities, you did say “technically” after all

    • @atomic...
      @atomic... 6 місяців тому +3

      Yea, I did want to word it better but I couldn't

    • @MrHenkkkie
      @MrHenkkkie 6 місяців тому +3

      ​@atomic... Still these are bridges with roads on top. You can also have a bridge with only a footpath or cycle path on top

  • @xxSeanVxx
    @xxSeanVxx 6 місяців тому +6

    I love these one time cities just for the concept of the video. I would love seeing a tour of city from pedestrian view at the end tho

  • @Echooo
    @Echooo 6 місяців тому +13

    shout out to Matt for bringing us the videos we never knew we needed!

  • @von186
    @von186 6 місяців тому +5

    watching him marvel over dirt roads told me a lot about where matt's lived in his life

  • @stephenreaves3205
    @stephenreaves3205 6 місяців тому +5

    "look at the bin lorry absolutely caning it down here" I"m not sure what half of those words mean

  • @Spyro5500
    @Spyro5500 6 місяців тому +6

    So addicted to these cities skylines videos!

  • @veganpowerlab
    @veganpowerlab 6 місяців тому +13

    I’d love to see a city that only functions with one roundabout. Perhaps around the city (like a one way road). No other intersections (only roads coming into/going out of the roundabout), just that. I’m curious about traffic for that

  • @benlunaris
    @benlunaris 6 місяців тому +5

    If you think about it, all stone is just really hard dirt...That's how it works right?

  • @melellison6901
    @melellison6901 6 місяців тому +2

    "People complaining about rent..." *BOOSH!* "Shoulda kept your mouth shut." Had me *dying* lmao!

  • @GronTheMighty
    @GronTheMighty 6 місяців тому +7

    Don't worry, this is no savage barbarian engineering, oh no no no, it's civil engineering! ;p

  • @georgeratcliffe7752
    @georgeratcliffe7752 6 місяців тому +6

    You've made Eastern Europe

  • @Kuya-Jet
    @Kuya-Jet 6 місяців тому +1

    2:05 Matt forgetting things still need to be built, the engineers gotta ise the bathroom before and while building it 😂

  • @carlsiouxfalls
    @carlsiouxfalls 6 місяців тому +72

    I'm starting to think Matt keeps starting new cities because he can't build a successful long-term big city.

    • @martinzhang5533
      @martinzhang5533 6 місяців тому +11

      So you are saying he's just like a real civil engineer and city planner?

    • @saltiney8578
      @saltiney8578 6 місяців тому +3

      Its more like this game has less interesting things than the first game (such as water physics) for him to make wierd things in engitopia for and hes having a hard time coming up with ideas, He has a completly successful and realistic city skylines 2 series on his patreon but its more boring overall than the engitopia playthrough that has a silly and playful vibe.

    • @flamingoLake
      @flamingoLake 6 місяців тому

      how good is it? because all of his silly content on his youtube is just unappealing to me. But if you have to pay money to see an actual series, It must be good. Is it city planner plays level?@@saltiney8578

  • @TheodoreSmith-wn3gx
    @TheodoreSmith-wn3gx 2 місяці тому +1

    The golden retriever loved the fireworks each Fourth of July.

  • @GamingProsAdventure
    @GamingProsAdventure 6 місяців тому +4

    Parking lots create a ton of traffic but can be used to redirect traffic and generate a lot of money

  • @SuperMickyChow
    @SuperMickyChow 6 місяців тому +3

    "Always take the dirt track" is what my wife used to say.
    I don't think she was talking about Cities:Skylines...

    • @zyeborm
      @zyeborm 6 місяців тому +1

      I also choose this guys wife lol

  • @farshnuke
    @farshnuke 6 місяців тому +1

    Matt has now noticed that on his challenges he plays well. When he has a reason to focus he's great

  • @ramrod126
    @ramrod126 6 місяців тому +1

    "Can you imagine a dirt road grid?" Why yes, I have been to Florida.

  • @Nick-hi9gx
    @Nick-hi9gx 6 місяців тому +7

    "Can you imagine a dirt road grid?"
    Yes, Matt, almost all Americans and Canadians and Aussies can. Seriously, google earth anywhere middle America, get 30+ miles from cities, and you'll find dirt road grids. Same in Canada, except French Canada those weirdos.

  • @totallynothalf
    @totallynothalf 6 місяців тому +4

    I can’t imagine you’d be happy to know the wind speed never changes in CS2…

  • @Inignot12
    @Inignot12 6 місяців тому +1

    Haha I'm so glad I'm not the only one who flooded this map in the same way. That river is temperamental

  • @specter99
    @specter99 6 місяців тому +2

    Thanks for doing my comment from some videos ago, I forgot I asked until I saw the title and got so excited to watch! Thanks!! Even if unintentional 😊

  • @darioschottlender
    @darioschottlender 6 місяців тому +7

    That single tree on fire for no reason got me laughing

  • @MarkWiseTechno
    @MarkWiseTechno 6 місяців тому

    17:45 people building their houses in the river is very Todd Howard. It just works! 😂😂

  • @Thelift2013
    @Thelift2013 6 місяців тому +2

    cities skylines, but on a map full of rivers and you can only use cable cars to cross those rivers. and also no filling in the rivers with terrain or tunnels.

  • @seancook5892
    @seancook5892 6 місяців тому +2

    “Don’t know how big a kilometer is”
    As an American, me either.

    • @skrzatuprzydomowy
      @skrzatuprzydomowy 6 місяців тому

      It's roughly a 1.5 tile, as the tile is like 600x600 meters.

  • @noahsmalley7085
    @noahsmalley7085 3 місяці тому +1

    18:04 Average New Orleans day

  • @geoff3610
    @geoff3610 6 місяців тому

    "Never camp on a slope"
    I feel like you were joking but that was real, good advice lol. Don't camp on a slope unless you know what you're doing. At the least it messes with your sleep.

  • @Softnutt
    @Softnutt 6 місяців тому +4

    Just done a skylines run with all main roads underground, easier than trying to do a subway

    • @zyeborm
      @zyeborm 6 місяців тому +1

      underground highways are almost a cheat code. I make grids with big roundabouts in the corners of a section, highway to link the corners and then one in/out in the centre. High density commercial and some office in the centre, high density residential then low density. Then link all of the highway rings with a bigger ring that runs a level lower down.

  • @hans_pixel-me5mx
    @hans_pixel-me5mx 6 місяців тому +2

    I would be more interested in an all dirt roundabout city!

    • @hans_pixel-me5mx
      @hans_pixel-me5mx 6 місяців тому

      Also, stop using the terrain smoothing tools! You're better than that! 🤣

  • @davidjr.janobas9672
    @davidjr.janobas9672 6 місяців тому

    5:17 a Milestone Achieved
    6:28 Expanding the City
    7:15 Buliding a Landfill Site from the Last Video
    8:37 Making a Dirt Road Bridge
    9:48 Expanding the city
    11:52 Parking Lot on the Cilff

  • @calebbrown6735
    @calebbrown6735 6 місяців тому +1

    Hey. In real life. Many major cities have expanded so far the can even reach mountain ranges. I'd like to see an episode where you solely build on a mountain

  • @aaronaaronsen3360
    @aaronaaronsen3360 5 місяців тому

    18:05 That'd be a good segmznt to put a Vessi Shoes ad 😅

  • @mboyette92
    @mboyette92 6 місяців тому +2

    Love you RCE

  • @jcskyknight2222
    @jcskyknight2222 15 днів тому

    16:30 I mean that right, my local council is doing quite well financially possibly because they just don’t care about looking after the roads…

  • @Real_Claudy_Focan
    @Real_Claudy_Focan 6 місяців тому

    That Dirtopia got some Alpine vibes !
    I like it !

  • @gabesternberg555
    @gabesternberg555 6 місяців тому

    RCE: can you imagine a dirt road grid?
    Me who lives in America: Yes.

  • @sandervandegarde569
    @sandervandegarde569 6 місяців тому +1

    Watching this video was so much better use of my time then sleeping lolz. Matt you are a absolute genius

  • @mandowarrior123
    @mandowarrior123 6 місяців тому +2

    Gravel roads are genuinely the best in both games.

  • @DZag6149
    @DZag6149 6 місяців тому +1

    Now he needs to do
    City skylines but I can only use Highways 🛣️

  • @vancouverstuff284
    @vancouverstuff284 6 місяців тому +1

    Day 100 of asking Matt to add the Second Narrows Bridge, Ironworkers Memorial to the Wheel of Bridgetune
    It is a cantilevered truss bridge, carrying 6 lanes of traffic from Vancouver to North Vancouver in B.C. across the second narrowing of the Burrard Inlet.
    It's name comes from the fact that it collapsed twice during construction, which unalived 23 people in total (Hence the name, ironworkers memorial).

  • @Thoran666
    @Thoran666 6 місяців тому +1

    Maybe because of the dirt road this is one of your most beautiful towns.

  • @erikbudrow1255
    @erikbudrow1255 6 місяців тому +1

    I'm surprised they didn't factor in air quality with that many vehicles using dirt roads lol. The whole town would be dusted!

  • @TheAmericanBritishMan
    @TheAmericanBritishMan 6 місяців тому +6

    Day 10 of asking Matt to say pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanoconiosis

  • @szabolcsmurath
    @szabolcsmurath 6 місяців тому

    Ah yes, the strongest shape makes it into the dirt road grid at 3:24 . Spectecular. Veins and everything.

  • @Xx0bamaGamingxX
    @Xx0bamaGamingxX 6 місяців тому

    Holly shit, its Real engineer gaming !
    And hes back with some ideas to improve everything, such as the strongest shape !

  • @Lincolnator721
    @Lincolnator721 5 місяців тому

    Ironically, some countryside roads in my area are going back to gravel/dirt roads. Pavement is apparently too costly to maintain

  • @quinnzeeskimo
    @quinnzeeskimo 6 місяців тому

    A fun challenge would be to use the opposite roads from what would be normal, busy downtown areas? dirt roads. Quiet residential streets? 6 lane highways.

  • @ZephrymWOW
    @ZephrymWOW 27 днів тому

    "can you imagine a dirt road grid?" > Laughs in american farmland

  • @cpypcy
    @cpypcy 6 місяців тому

    Thing about CS2 is kinda rent is being a bit real-ish. If you plot low density housing with maximum size then they will have to pay high rent for large backyard. Zone smaller plots so it will be more affordable for people. Higher density can pack more people in there so it will not be issue for a bit.

  • @angrycrow13
    @angrycrow13 6 місяців тому

    That was amazing.

  • @a866903
    @a866903 5 місяців тому

    hilarious video...! I laughed when the trash truck went barreling down the watery road!
    do you ever do longer series of these troll cities? or is there any longer part series on YT that I can watch? I know you have a "serious" city build on patreon but anything here?

  • @m8r4isgb69
    @m8r4isgb69 6 місяців тому +4

    you know the vids gonna be good when its city skylines

  • @deputyhalloweiner
    @deputyhalloweiner 24 дні тому

    The city I work at is a great example of a city built almost entirely of dirt roads.

  • @stephenkestell7239
    @stephenkestell7239 6 місяців тому

    Matt, you need to visit Colorado!! 4:39

  • @marchettejw
    @marchettejw 6 місяців тому

    Gravel roads only? Matt has taken the North Dakota challenge!

  • @emojiftw7333
    @emojiftw7333 6 місяців тому +1

    Matt, it pains me so much when you build the roads on the contour like that 😂 please switch to the last road tool mode, it will be much faster as then you can just instantly go from place to place, you don’t have to deal with the angles!

  • @user-ow7gt5uw2r
    @user-ow7gt5uw2r 6 місяців тому +1

    you should do a pt2 from this town

  • @andyd8370
    @andyd8370 6 місяців тому

    @15:00 Misleading "Not Enough Customers" is a known bug they're working on.

  • @menotih
    @menotih 6 місяців тому +9

    "yes,upgrade" they could have called it downgrade if you get from wider roads to narrower

  • @Colts_Pacers15
    @Colts_Pacers15 6 місяців тому +1

    Imagine saying "yeah I live on 100% dirt street"

  • @aniket911
    @aniket911 6 місяців тому

    keep this going

  • @JamesThomas-et2yf
    @JamesThomas-et2yf 6 місяців тому +1

    Because nobody else will “take me home country roads to the place where I belong West Virginia mountain mommy take me home country roads”

  • @Jeff-uk9cu
    @Jeff-uk9cu 6 місяців тому

    Yesss. I love dirt roads

  • @johnmasonRCingabout
    @johnmasonRCingabout 6 місяців тому +1

    Could you imagine these as game maps!😊

  • @dannypipewrench533
    @dannypipewrench533 6 місяців тому

    17:26 Darn architects.

  • @reilandeubank
    @reilandeubank 6 місяців тому

    "Theres a ton of traffic because everyone is going to the parking lots. Ill just add another parking lot! What could go wrong?"

  • @Batyalas
    @Batyalas 6 місяців тому +2

    What map is this? I love it so much! I want to play it.

  • @autisticballistic
    @autisticballistic 6 місяців тому

    I can't be the only one thinking the road to the water pump would be a insane rally track

  • @dannypipewrench533
    @dannypipewrench533 6 місяців тому

    12:07 Neither do I, Matt, neither do I...

  • @DendrummerMC
    @DendrummerMC 6 місяців тому

    You can in fact have either 17 or 18 arms on a single intersection/roundabout. The difference lies in if the angle has to be >20° or >=20°
    My experimentation points towards >20°, but you can't/couldn't angle snap to 20°. Any imperfection in angle and poof, roads merged or angle too large.

  • @aakashparashar4919
    @aakashparashar4919 6 місяців тому

    Should have done "100% Dirt bridge Review". Definitely a 7.47/10

  • @21_akai
    @21_akai 6 місяців тому +6

    We need a return to Mini Motorways.. I'd love to see RCE do the new cities and new building they added for their 10th Anniversary of Mini Metro.

  • @yes-hm4gk
    @yes-hm4gk 6 місяців тому +1

    15:00 Network color and terrain color are different, which they did not make clear, and definitely confused me for the first couple weeks of the game.

  • @nomeacuerdo
    @nomeacuerdo 6 місяців тому +1

    Do an olympic villa modeled after the olympic rings! I think that circular cities fit this channel’s brand of stupid

  • @suny2paper965
    @suny2paper965 6 місяців тому

    dirts roundabouts are beautiful

  • @Door__Handle
    @Door__Handle 6 місяців тому +2

    Matt should make a video of waiting for someone to die at work.

  • @Electric_gaming14
    @Electric_gaming14 Місяць тому +1

    As an Australian I can confirm this is every Australian city

  • @WashawIIoveYou123
    @WashawIIoveYou123 6 місяців тому

    Most convenient route to Mae Hong Son if there is a city in the way:

  • @shlupon
    @shlupon 6 місяців тому +1

    can you do a video that you show all the good moods for cities skylines 2?

  • @jimoftehgray
    @jimoftehgray 6 місяців тому

    As crazy as these videos are, I’m actually glad to watch them! Not gonna lie, before i kept getting into deficits until Matt explains certain things as to why i kept losing money. I can happily say now i’m making serious profit with my current city of at least £300k an hour! That also includes low tax on everything! 😍 cha ching!

  • @sarahdillon8737
    @sarahdillon8737 5 місяців тому

    I really want city planner plays to try to play a city that Matt started

  • @furiouskaiser9914
    @furiouskaiser9914 6 місяців тому +1

    🎶 Country rooooooads 🎶
    🎶 Take me hoooooome 🎶
    🎶 To the place 🎶
    🎶 I belooooong! 🎶

  • @kevinbihari
    @kevinbihari 6 місяців тому

    Only matt drinks from the sea and poops in the river.
    But i love you anyways

  • @CrashSaturn5475
    @CrashSaturn5475 6 місяців тому +2

    Alternative title: when the river flows red…