P-47 vs. 109 K4 , Ju88s, DCS WW2
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- Опубліковано 24 лип 2023
- This is just a quickie video using footage from the last one. Some of you had questions about those battles, and DCS videos are so easy to make I thought that rather than deal with them in the comments, I would just narrate the footage in its own video.
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The Ju88 formation was line astern not line abreast, I misspoke. - Авто та транспорт
I’m just glad to see people use the p47 in a fighter role and prove how good it was. Everyone knows it’s a good ground pounder but you never get to see it in its intended role as a fighter outside of games like war thunder or maybe IL-2
War thunder is a horrible representation of dogfighting though. I play it because my friends dont have dcs but its just really bad.
Gregg I think the P.47 was one of the best overall prop planes of ww2, it's unbelievably complicated engineering is a joy to behold.😎
F4Fs and F6Fs had safe on-water landings as one of their design requirements. That, if I am correct, goes back to their first naval combat aircraft. Grumman knew they were building an aircraft to be launched from a ship.
P-47s, though had a skid plate and more, does not have the round, wide underbelly as Grumman planes, which is kind of their trademark, even up to the F8F. Not sure about the exact physics, and I am really guessing with my best attempt, but Grumman must have thought about the buoyancy to a degree when designing the planes.
Also, directly comparing Hellcats to P-47s, much of the F6F’s fuselage is covered up or at least without major openings, which isn’t necessarily the case with the P-47. Couple that with the large turbosupercharger system in place, I suspect there are many more places, that the water can sip through, while initiating the process quicker and having an easier time when doing so, since you are literally entering a passage.
Like I said, this is a mix of my logical guesses with some facts I know. Hope it helps you in whatever ways possible!
@@left_ventricle what do you mean by the F6F's fuselage being more covered up? Are you sighting things like the intercooler doors on the P-47?
A quibble: What you're attacking is a "line astern" formation. A "line abreast" formation would be flying wingtips together in a line extending outward parallel to the lead aircraft.
Yes, I mis-spoke, but in a good way because it seems to be helping the algorythm ;) I did add a statement to the video description to clear it up.
@@GregsAirplanesandAutomobiles A line of breasts? :)
Thanks for the 47 tips. It’s my favorite DCS WWII module.
I love the DCS warbirds videos. I now fly on the wolfpack server as default instead of the 4ya SoW one. It's also nice having MW50 available for axis.
Yes, that makes it more even, the Dora without MW-50 is pretty close to dead meat against a 47 or a 51. The K-4 is closer, but still not quite there without . I'll see you there in October when I am back on DCS.
The P47 is my favorite ww2 aircraft! Thank you for sharing and educating us all.
Getting WW2 online flashbacks.
The 2001 graphics still look good in my mind
The nonchalant “Notice my throttle is non-responsive here…” has me cracking up laughing.
thanks Mr. Greg, certainly wasn't expecting another video so soon, as a side note in the last couple of days I've come to realize Brits were quite unlucky in aircraft business sometimes, examples being in the cases of SR.177 vs F-104 in selling to Germans (from the doc Planes that never flew) and the case of Avro Canada's Arrow again from a doc dedicated to that plane (its Canadians this time but the mother company is Avro) also if it weren't for the information exchange with US (again politics) Brits could perhaps break the sound barrier in level flight first with Miles M.52
This is one of my favorite videos that you have made about flying in DCS, only secondary to the ones with me in them. [lol] Many times I've wanted to pick your brain about dog fighting in the Jug and this video answers all questions I wanted to ask and some that wouldn't occur to me to ask. This is the video I recommend people watch when I'm asked about dog fighting in the P-47 in DCS. By the way, in my experienced opinion on the subject of this plane in this sim on this server, your last landing at the end of this video, that damage to the landing gear wasn't completely unbelievable but it was before the last bug fix on the Thunderbolts undercarriage where it would previously malfunction during landing or after repair as the plane mysteriously levitates and then is given a 2 foot dead drop on to the ground which would end up damaging the gear that was just repaired. That bug has been fixed as far as I can tell. By the way the work around of that bug was to strip the plane of ammo, ordinance and fuel to minimize weight, which would work about every other time. This brings me to the reason for this long self serving comment. Next time you are flying the Jug in DCS, if its not too much to ask, would you be so kind as to make a mental note of the the way the plane lands under best conditions. I would love the input of an actual seasoned career commercial/private pilot that also has the experience that you have in DSC. I'm not asking for a review but rather just your perception of how it lands. I don't want to add any opinions I may have here in order to keep from in any way possibly foreshadowing your findings. If you could just PM me in discord that would be perfect.
Thanks, and I'll be sure to do that next time I'm flying DCS.
I always learn something, or many things, from your videos. The ‘47 was always a favorite. Your presentations, both academic and DCS practical demonstrations. Keep up the great work!
I love that u make these bc it’s good for both crowds like the listeners and the watchers
Love the recent content, Greg. Don’t mind the nitpickers
Hahaha highly entertaining commentary, I can tell Greg is in his happy place when gunning things down in his P47
Thanks Greg, I do enjoy these
Love these! Keep 'em coming!
As a longtime subscriber who is routinely in awe of your knowledge, I thought I ought to capitalize on the one time I could ever correct you: that is a line astern formation. Abreast is side by side.
Love your work bud
Yes, I mis spoke.
Cheers from the Pacific West Coast of Canada.
That was still fun to watch and learn from. Thanks 👍☕🐢
Thanks for the great Vid greg!
I remember someone ditching a P47 in the Hudson river maybe a decade ago. He didn't get out. Sad.
Yes, that's the one I was referring to.
Very entertaining video, good information also.
Back in the early 2000’s I had the original Microsoft Combat Flight Simulator. The Thunderbolt in that game was not good at high altitude. There was a mission with P-47’s defending B-17’s and I would always switch to a Mustang as MS made the P-51 fly much better at high altitudes. I suspect they got it wrong.
Yep. The P-47 in that game lacked power, maneuverability and energy retention.
Very interesting and logical, thanks Greg
Glad to see good sportsmanship. :-)
Another tremendous video and realistic display. I think the K4 would had the best chance at zoom climbing to start right after the p47 sprayed at the beginning.
I think the 109 pilot chose to descend because the P-47 is generally considered weaker down low. Also, at the start of the fight he was at a low airspeed, far lower than mine so I could out zoom climb him at that point with ease.
Realistic dog fight; I swear at one point I even heard a bark.😊
Thank you
I wonder why the P-47 didn't water ditch well? The F6F was about the same size and weight and there were certainly many survivable water landings. Thanks for the post.
I think the fact that the p47 is heavy enough that upon ditching it sinks instantly and there just isn't enough time for you to get out of the airplane.
If only the P-47 in IL2 was modeled half this well 😢
IL2 has a way to go in terms of accuracy. Sadly, I don't think they have any interest in doing it.
There is so much wrong with the IL-2 P-47 model, whats worse is not that the Devs haven't fixed it, rather that after the outpour of complaints, they ignored all the legitimate criticism and sources, and flat out stated they won't change the current flight model.
@@GregsAirplanesandAutomobiles Hello Greg. Im mastering actually Jug in IL-2 , and there was actually not long ago a patch where P47 issues were fixed by changes in AoA in FM. Now Jug is much better to handle to on this game, even i can use tactics and get results like you in DCS against K4. But it m still learning😏.
Sweet!
I don't have DCS yet, but I do play in IL-2 single player, and if I tried to dogfight that 109K with a P47 like you did, I would have gotten shot down within 1 minute. IL2's P-47 handles like a cow even with water injection.
IL2 is not accurate.
@@GregsAirplanesandAutomobilesI’m curious, how far above IL-2 is DCS would you say in terms of accuracy? I’ve played a bit of both, but I’m not experienced enough to really notice any big differences.
Best ww2 server
it seems you were already able to fix the FPS issue in this one. Great. Much more enjoyable.
Thanks Sheriff. I did it just for you. Now if only you could get you over to DCS.
@@GregsAirplanesandAutomobiles dont know. Each time I was playing it it didnt hook me due to inconsistencies etc.
It’s a nice change of pace from IL-2. I enjoy it more, but yes. ED needs to dedicate some more time and energy to it.
3:26 what a privilege that was!
XDDD I didn't hear the door, I did hear the dog, but then again you'd had some sort of jedi laser battle going on for the previous 8 minutes or so, so tis all good XD
Yes. The original intent was just to have footage with no sound as filler for the previous video. Thus I didn't bother to unplug the microphone which the recording software uses to record everything. What you're hearing in the backround was indeed a Star Wars type video game being played by my Grandkids and the guard dog is on high alert whenever they are here. The dog barks if she hear a UPS truck down the street. So the guy who delivers water normally never knocks on the door, he just drops it off. That day he knocked. The dog was very unhappy.
@@GregsAirplanesandAutomobiles no worries, the joys of irl and recording, and give the doggo a headpat from me, heheh ^w^
Could use of a different attack method have helped avoid damage from bomber defensive guns?
How about an approach from high and ahead and repeatedly using speed and altitude?
Exactly. The P-47 can dive in from the front and will rarely get hit by the Ju-88's defensive fire.
@@GregsAirplanesandAutomobiles Thanks
will you do a video on the 13mm Mg-131?
I just turned 47. fitting.
Is it possible to slip the P47 on landing if you are too high/too fast?
Did you ever come around to make a Mosquito vs Lockheed P-38 Lightning. I think you said you would do two years ago. At the time you did the Lockheed P-38 Lightning and the Mosquito one(do not remember). But I can not find that video. I know these two plane are not an apples to apples comparison. But it would be interesting anyway. As they were quite often used in the same role
I think they are pretty close to an apples to apples comparison. Both have maximum weights of about 20,000 pounds, both or twin engine, both have liquid cooled V-12s and so on. I am going to do it.
They were both effective all-around multi-role planes, but the Mossie was better at ground attack missions due to the internal bomb bay not degrading performance as much as P-38 with external stores. On the other hand, the P-38 was better at air to air due to its better maneuverability, climb rate, and speed.
@@GregsAirplanesandAutomobiles I am looking forward for that video. Keep up the good work meanwhile. No stress
@@goldleader6074I like how you basically made that summary. I think the mosquito Fanboys are a little bit ridiculous.
@@GregsAirplanesandAutomobilesWouldn't the Bristol Beaufighter be a better comparison? Beaufighter vs. Mosquito seems more appropriate.
I know this is late, but I missed it somehow and just watched the video. I was wondering why the 47 was so bad in a water grounding. Was that because the big heavy engine sucked the plane down before the pilot could get the canopy open?
I think it's because the big air scoop up front drives the nose down on landing, plus the huge opening at the back for the intercoolers will sink the plane quickly even it you do make a good landing on the water.
@@GregsAirplanesandAutomobiles Thank you for taking the time to answer my question. Makes a lot of sense to me. I am an old fart (81), and have only recently been using u-tube. I have found channels such as yours exceptionally informative and entertaining. I look forward to your videos.
0:10 "They're in a line abreast formation...."
Yeah, nah. I am pretty sure that is a line astern formation....
Line abreast would be side by side.
But you know this already... LOL.
Hey, it's helping the algorithm so it's a good mistake.
I learned a lot from you, but that bad in-game engine management... ah, I can't believe it. I hope one day you get a VR headset and 'be there'.
With the Honeycomb Bravo, for the left hand, the engine control can be complete from all the levers to all the engine cooling covers, switches, trims, and wheels of the gyroscope sight, and adjust them very quickly without looking where they are. In VR, I am afraid to follow the Ju88 like that.
Inside the cockpit with VR, the eyes are very fast between combat and instruments, so it is not so easy to extend landing gears, flaps, and engine cowlings above 200. There is much more responsibility and a sense of reality, as well as real fear and noise. And the smell of burning when the computer gets too hot.
I've been flying regularly for a year and I've never played it without VR, even though I have an ultrawide screen and it works great in MSFS, but the DCS camera limits me and doesn't swallow me like VR.
I hope that sometime in the future we will have your VR recordings and impressions of fear in battle.
Hmm, I felt OK about my engine management.
Hey Greg! Still trying to git gud (suck slightly less) at ww2...thanks for the engine mgmt tips. In a dogfight should my oil and intercoolers and cowl flaps be closed until needed, or do you leave some (oil?) neutral or open the whole time?
Cowl flaps closes after take off and leave them there except during a slow turn fight at high power I crack them open a little. Intercoolers neutral except at high boost at ALt when a bit more is needed. Oil coolers neutral for normal ops, fully open in combat.
@@GregsAirplanesandAutomobiles thanks much!!
Hey Greg I was able to practice against AI and actually did OK so thank you again! Is there a speed you're trying to stay at during turns?
Do you mind explaining to me why the P-47 was so dangerous when ditching on water? I have never heard that before. I can't really blame the plane itself in the event where the P-47 ditched in the Hudson and unfortunately claimed the life of the pilot. As far as I am aware, the ditching was completely successful, only the pilot got caught in the seat belts, and drowned when the the plane sank. Is that not a potential fault of every single WWII aircraft? Or is it just that the P-47 sinks faster than most, and is thus more dangerous?
I do not think that is the line-abrest formation. It appears to be the In trail with the pairs in the echelon left.
I agree.
I don't think you mean "line abreast" formation. The JU88s are clearly in trail formation. Google "line abreast" if you think I'm wrong.
you're right, I meant line astern.
Bro. He made a mistake - why so defensive preemptively? Lol
Lol is that a TV playing in the background?
No, it's not. What you hear are my grandkids playing video games. At the time I was recording the footage I didn't plan to use the audio due to my original intent for it.
Ahem . .that was a LINE ASTERN formation, Greg. . .
Yes it was, at least until I got through with it.
How certain can we be on the damage inflicted, its all modelled..? 😊
I'm not sure I understand the question.
Why British markings on a P47D in Normandy? The brits (I am one...) only used them in the Far East (India/Burma, South East Asia Command - SEAC). P51 Normandy? Possibly.
Did I not explain that at the end of the video?
@@GregsAirplanesandAutomobiles Visibility purposes? Really?
Somebody knows convergence setting for the P 47 in DCS? In my opinion it should be 750 feet.
It seems to be about 350 yards.
video is online... so nothing bad happened with stranger at the door
My dogs were not happy, but it was just someone delivering water bottles. Oddly enough, they normally never knock, they just drop them on the porch, but this guys decided to knock.
Greg - dog video next?
@@someguy999 No one cares about the mutt
Limey 47? SHAME! No cookie for you.
It's hard to see, and I wanted to win.
So how do you fight a P-51 with a Jug?
They are on the same team.
@@GregsAirplanesandAutomobiles That's what I am saying lol
Isn‘t that a line astern/in trail formation rather than a line abreast?
Yes it is.
@@GregsAirplanesandAutomobiles do you build your own missions and scenarios for your DCS videos or are those clips solely taken from Wolfpack server occurrences?
So if my manifold pressure is at 70 with all levers forward and water injection below 6000ft , am i to understand that i am actually losing power?
No, not at all. If the throttle is behind the turbo lever you're losing power.
JU 188s? They had three 13mm and one 20mm cannon.
Weight does not influence glide ratio...? That makes no sense to me. Surely how hard the Earth is pulling it down has an effect on how far a plane can go forward?
Go to Aerodynamics for Naval Aviators page 32. It's all explained there.
@@GregsAirplanesandAutomobiles Brother, if I owned and read all the sources you do, why would I be watching your channel?
I'm doing my best to help, here is a link: www.faa.gov/sites/faa.gov/files/regulations_policies/handbooks_manuals/aviation/00-80T-80.pdf
VR would make for much more engaging in game footage. Obviously there is a cost involved. If you ever need any help setting that up reach out.
Im pretty sure he could handle plugging in a VR headset and installing the latest drivers lmao'😂😂😂😂🤣🤣
@@DankNoodles420 if only it was that simple 😭
Everytime I go on the wolf pack server, it's deserted. It all seems to be going down on 4YA Normandy these days...
It varies a lot with the time. I'll be on once my DCS update is done downloading. 4YA doesn't allow Doras with MW-50, so I don't have much use for it.
@@GregsAirplanesandAutomobiles It depends on the mission I think. I was just flying a Dora that I'm pretty certain had MW50. The only thing is they start you at the ends of the earth which can be a bit of pain to say the least. Just flew about 150 miles, snuck right up onto the tail of a Spit, and as I was about to squeeze off my first burst, server restarted. Almost put my fist through my monitor.
The far away bases are another problem. I don't want to fly for 30 mins before I see any action. Plus I don't think it allows for external views and I need those for video production in many cases.
Passing out Freedom like a boss.
I love you and your videos mate, but you're a guy who does hour long videos about a single mark of plane. Can't you at least give a hint about why the P-47 ditched so badly? Or are you saving it for a 2 hour long exposé? 😁
A quick search hints at the P-47 sinking very quickly and the canopy not opening very easily in the water.
The cowling digs into the water and forces the nose down. The plane comes to a stop very quickly and sinks pretty fast.
@@GregsAirplanesandAutomobiles Thank you, I love this channel. ❤
@@GregsAirplanesandAutomobilesHere is what you do to fix that issue.... #1 Wait until just before the stall speed of the plane #2 Open canopy #3 Engage full flaps #4 Pull back hard on the stick and hold... {The plane goes nose up then stalls and falls right onto its tail first.}, #5 Step out of cockpit, #6 Profit???!!!
The DCS version of the P47 seems off. It seems artificially floaty. Unlike Cars a big hvy plane doesn't float around more than a small one, lol. I hope they dont make this mistake with the Corsair.
You didn't even switch over to the external cam and show us all the damage to the propeller or anywhere else on the plane either? You just said that you wanted to show the damage to the prop??
You could see it from the cockpit.
Greg, according to the English dictionary, "ditching" is deemed, "A deliberate forced landing on WATER." So why do use that term, for a forced or crash landing on land? Any wheels up landing on land, has got to be deemed a crash landing.
Promo-SM 🙈
Such a great channel...Do you know why the P-38 was not used in bomber escort?.. It had more range than the P-47
Thanks. The P-38 had two problems relating to bomber escort. First a low maximum mach number which matters when diving from high altitude. Second a really poor heater.
@@GregsAirplanesandAutomobilesI think the heater was fine, it just had to work twice as hard because the P-38 had two fans blowing on the pilot! 😂
@@SVTL4799 hahahaha I GET IT!
You should dogfight, GrowingSidewinder. You're both good pilots
I'm willing to do that, although I think he has the edge because he does it everyday.
@@GregsAirplanesandAutomobiles A dogfight isn't ever even. I think this would be a great fight. Oooo boy i hope i set this shit up 🙏
Thank you