The Top Gun Maverick Controversy and the P-47
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- Опубліковано 29 вер 2024
- Have you seen the controversy over the Top Gun Maverick movie? The Republic P-47 Thunderbolt is connected to the story, so I thought I would make a quick video about it.
Note: The tactic mentioned is actually a form of "energy fighting" but it's chemical energy. The P-47s would drag the fight down very low, which is opposite of what you normally want in a Thunderbolt, but this caused the enemy planes to end up with a serious endurance problem relative to the 47s.
U.S. Senator commenting on the controversy: thehill.com/bl...
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This is part of the reason why in World of Warships I run a Taiwanese flag on my boats.. it's a small thing I know but it's done in the spirit of resisting communism everywhere. I bet this video won't get past the great firewall of China..
"The great firewall of China"
I love that, I'm gonna use that one.
..no..they will get it because they are kings of pirating everything that is not theirs...they do not hold anything sacred but their own bs
Really interesting topic Greg! If you have any more asides like this, I for one would love your perspective on them.
Also thatTony looked badass in ROC colors👍
Giving in to a tyrant is never good policy, stay free Taiwan.
Witness Nov, 3, 2020
There were Huge Pro Trump protests in Taiwan none of these were shown to us . Ditto for both Japan and South Korea they all have an existential fear of China . With Peking Biden these existential fears are boiling over . If we devolve in to a civil war none of these countries will be protected as our fleets will not venture out further than Hawaii. These countries will all go Nuclear for their own self protection
As America just let the CCP help the DNC steal a National election using a slightly more dangerous seasonal flu as an excuse to do it.
read about opium wars and other colonial abuse of china. we gave them a real good lesson in tyranny for sure
Chiang Kai Shek was absolutely a tyrant, as well as being comically corrupt
Its nice to have a clearly told documentaries and with the most accurate 411 u can possibly give koddos greg keepem coming
Detailed history of Tiawan has many interesting stories. There is or was a really great pair of Dutch bronze cannon on display at the front of the Garrison HQ at Fort Belvoir that were taken from the island by US forces at some point. As best I recall they were cast in about 1620 and used when the Dutch held the island in the 1600's. Gun bunnies and nerds of casting tech will find it worth their time to take a look at these rare guns if they are in the area.
Wonder where those 112 P47s are now? Did any of them survive?
Some certainly did, they seem to have been preserved and split up between several museums, seemingly both in Taiwan and other countries. The quick search I did was pretty confusing to try and keep track of, I'm sure someone that looked more in-depth could probably come up with a more detailed history.
As a Taiwanese,I don't hate the Hollywood. I understand they just want to make money from massive scale market of China.As other companies do today.Thank you Mr. Greg make this video to tell people the history of Taiwan.
Gen. Stilwell didn't get along with a lot of people. They didn't call him "Vinegar Joe" for nothing.
Even still, there is a chance his acrimony with Chiang's govt was not reigned in or even encouraged on purpose in order to try nudging the Nationalist forces into offensive campaign against the Japanese in 42'. Though I could be wrong about the year. The idea is that the Nationalist had their share of years of battles and losses and had no appetite to comply with such wishes. From US perspective, any blood shred instead of Americans is good blood shred.
My grand uncle (EHA) was Stillwell's air officer for a few month's in '42- '43. My memory is that he was mostly depressed about his time there due to losses over the Hump.
He was a priviliged turd that Stillwell... hate how they make his retreat seem like something, like Brits in Dunkirk i guess
@@vicnighthorseThey didn't call it "The Skyway to Hell" and "The Aluminum Hwy" for nothing, at the time, that was a treacherous Flight ✈️. Big salute to your uncle and all the men and women who served during that time.
@@MS-gr2nv
Almost as big a privileged turd as Montgomery.
I’m reminded of the Melian Debate in Thucydides’s History of the Peloponnesian War:
“The path of expediency is safe, whereas justice and honor involve danger.”
You know it's a quality channel when the comments quote Thucydides!
Tom Cruise is all about the money...and not standing next to tall people
And jumping on couches. Let's not forget the couches. And there's some cult in the mix somewhere there too
In that case, Tom'll be very happy being Uncle Xi's Dennis Rodman. It's a sacrifice I as an American am prepared to make.
He might not know, or have any control over whats presented. Just a thought.
Best is his 2 films about Jack Reacher... in the books that man is 195 cm long (6’5” for you Americans) and 105 kg of 💪 (235lb)... and than you need to watch Tom with his app. 168 cm and 50 kg (5’6” and 110 lb) with no 💪........
And running alone ....🤔
I hate how Hollywood gets on their knees for Chinese dollars... it’s pathetic and unamerican.
Trading your morals and principles for money, is probably the most American action available.
It isn't only Hollywood.
Are you joking ? Everything is for sale in America
It's own form of collusion
Is it good for the shareholders? There you go. That's all that matters. Don't give us your moralistic platitudes, it's good money.
Isn't Top Gun just a Hot Shots prequel?
Yes , but much more far fetched and , laugh out loud funny .
Its easy to look back at top Gun and poke at it but in the mid eighties nothing like this has been done successfully. Its amazing how ignorant the millennial generation is about everything.
Hot shots: Part Deux
1) The Chinese civil war after WW2 was the continuation of the civil war that was brewing in China before WW2. The Japanese took advantage of the civil war in China and invaded. Both Chinese factions, the communists and the nationalists, agreed to a truce to fight the Japanese. When WW2 ended, the Chinese re-started where they left off.
2) The Chinese communists ALWAYS had Soviet help. In fact, the Soviet was the only one to give aid to the Chinese when they were seeking to overthrow the Manchurian regime that had conquered and occupied China since 1644; the last ruling dynasty of China, the Qing Dynasty, was Manchurian. The man responsible for the successful overthrow and liberation of China from Manchurian rule was Dr. Sun Yat-sen; he is considered the Father of modern China by both the nationalists and communists Chinese. He had sought all over the world for aid for Chinese independence, but none of the democracies (including the US) would help. He was forced to accept aid from the Soviet and one of the conditions the Soviet required from Dr. Sun was that he include the communist party in his movement to create the Republic of China. Dr. Sun's died in 1925 and armed conflict in 1927 ensued between the 2 major factions within the Republic of China, the communist and nationalist where, again, the Soviet aided the Chinese communists.
3) The first air-to-air kill with an early Sidewinder missile is no urban legend. It is a fact. The US at the time had no means to test the technology in actual combat, so they let the Taiwanese do it for them since at this time Taiwan and China was embroiled in what is now called, the 2nd Taiwan Strait Crisis (1958) with almost daily air battles over the strait. All this changed when the US in 1979 under President Jimmy Carter recognized communist China and withdrew recognition of Taiwan and denied Taiwan from purchasing at the time a new jet fighter, the F-16, which forced Taiwan to design and build their own fighter, the AIDC Ching-Kuo, with some secret aid from President Reagan's administration after Carter left. Since then, the Soviet/Russia has armed China with M-29's and Su-27 (licensed as Shenyang J-11) while the US abandoned Taiwan until just a few days ago when the US Trump administration allowed Taiwan to purchase upgrades to their fleet of old F-16's sold to them in 1992.
4) China owns a large part of the US entertainment industry that includes AMC theatres, Carmike Cinemas, Jurassic World production company, Dick Clark production company, IM Global which financed over 30 Hollywood movies, Voltage Pictures which produced the moive The Hurt Locker, and at least another dozen lesser known parent companies. And that is just the entertainment industry and not include the media outlets such as CNN, Washington Post, New York Times, and several others. Have you noticed that in the last 20 years, no movies made by Hollywood as a Chinese villain? Any Chinese roles a the movie these days are the "good" guys.
President Carter isn't the one that recognized China, it was Nixon, Carter just happened to be in office when it became "official", something like that's a slow process.
Amazing read . Thank you for that.
You should have mentioned adolph joffe. And the century of humiliation. Would have helped for the people who don't read with comprehension
awesome thanks
@@somercet1 I think he might be talking about the Manchukuo puppet state the Japanese set up in Manchuria, or is confusing the two, because the Soviets did aid in that fight. It was led by the last emperor Puyi (who the CPC actually rehabilitated and he lived to a ripe old age in China). Time frame was 1930s and WWII
There is a South Park episode called "Band in China" which is all about Chinese censorship of western media. Great video.
Oh yea, it's not only great but the shows creaters put out a scathing message to the Chinese government about how they won't bow down to them, I think it was on Twitter.
I intentionally didn't read too deep into top gun controversy specifically because I was waiting for your take on it. This will be my first and the only UA-cam video on this topic.
Wow, well, it's coming up. I hope you enjoy it. I think it's interesting, but non technical.
@@GregsAirplanesandAutomobiles The US environment could sure use a One Child Policy!
@@alan6832 The only reason the US population is projected to increase is immigration. Without that, population would be decreasing in the future, as is the case across pretty much all the "First world" and most of the developing world.
@@handlebarfox2366 If we stopped squeezing out kids, we could stop deporting kids, both of which are easier. If we wanted kids we could just stop deporting them, which is vastly easier than squeezing them out. Though I don't want either.
@@handlebarfox2366 You falsely credit natural replacement to reproduction when it is easier and far more ethical to import a replacement US population than to squeeze them out. If you want one, which I don't.
Greg - I've been an avid viewer of your excellent videos for the last couple of years. Your dispassionate analysis is so welcome in these partisan times, and I applaud your whole approach - it's not always easy. This video manages to avoid the USA-centric view of this part of the world and it's convinced me to finally support you via Patreon. Just be aware there are so many of us out here who really appreciate your content. Thank you.
USA-centric view?? What you think the USA is the only country that recognises Taiwan as a sovereign country buddy?
@@johndonaldson3619 er, no, the USA state does not recognise Taiwan as a sovereign country, even if many of its tax-payers, citizens and statesmen would like to. The current list of Taiwan-recognisers would be funny if it wasn't such a serious issue, at least for the millions who live on Taiwan. Belize, Guatemala, Haiti, The Holy See (ie, the Vatican), Honduras, Marshall Islands, Nauru, Nicaragua, Palau, Paraguay, St Lucia, St Kitts and Nevis, St Vincent and the Grenadines, Swaziland and Tuvalu. Paraguay is about the only country on the list that can even claim realistically to be a sovereign country itself.
Oh waiting for this one :) Also the follow-up on Mosquito. Your content is amazing!
I hope you like it, this one is not really like my normal content.
@@GregsAirplanesandAutomobiles I like all your content - mostly due to your take on things, which is methodological and based on extensive review.
@@GregsAirplanesandAutomobiles Not like your usual topics, but absolutely your normal content: thoughtful, well-considered & thorough given the time allowed. :t
@@GregsAirplanesandAutomobiles Greg the taiwanese never operated spitfires and the Mustangs along side the thunderbolts remained at the forefront of the defence until jet aircraft arrived. the taiwanese did however operate the legendary mosquito
@@omerashraf9357 And the legendary P-38 and the legendary B-17 and the underappreciated PB4Y ... F-100, F-104
I had a math professor who was from Korea but spent a lot of time in China. Every now and then he mentioned the Taiwan issues. He thought the communists would play the long game and not invade unless some golden opportunity arose.
i read Top Gun and P-47 and at 1st i thought of Thunderbolt`s used in dissimilar aircombat training , and 2nd the "Zirkus Rosarius" (2./Versuchsverband Ob.d.L.) and the two Razorbacks used by this Unit the T9+FK and the one recaptured by US Army in my hometown Göttingen the T9+LK, both were D Variants a D-2 RA and D-16 RE, the Zirkus Rosarius used this Thunderbolts to train German Pilots how to fight Thunderbolts.
But thx Greg taiwanese P-47 are welcome
I used to work with a daughter of one of the ROCAF's top Generals from that time period. Now I wish I had known to ask her some questions.
Makes you wonder if this was the reason that P-47s were not used in Korea.
When Gen.Lemay was appointed 8TH AF Commander in Europe{ after the war}, he kept all the P-47's he could get his hands on in the Continent. Converted all to D-40's. Since the 47's were more prevalent in Europe, and Lemay was in charge, they didn't leave until enough jets were deployed to Europe. But saying that 2 ROK FG's did fly the 47.
P47's weren't used in Korea because they were phased out of service in 1947 when the USAF was born, existing planes were either scrapped or sold to foreign governments, some remained in service in the Air National Guard but their numbers were too few to send to Korea.
Turns out that was a big mistake when they started using P51's for ground attack at the onset of the Korean War, they were eventually removed from that role after abysmal losses.
@@dukecraig2402 A "few" NG units. You call 23 NG units in 20 different states{plus the District of Columbia} a "few". New York had 4 F.S.'s equipped with 47's alone. Pennsylvania had 3. Even Puerto Rico had them in their NG unit. So there were plenty of 47's to go around. The U.S. tried to do everything on the cheap, that's why the 47 was not sent to Korea. When it was nearly to late they sent in U.S. Navy units flying the F4U another reliable and rugged AC that wore the R-2800. The 47 stayed in Europe until enough jets became available, because that's what Gen. Lemay wanted. The last part of your statement is correct, the first part, not even close.
Another video from Greg shows how the P47 was shown falsely to be inferior to the P51 by the "Bomber Mafia," to save their butts, so it was the P51 used in the Korean war.
@@limroger Top aces flew 38s and 47s. Nuff said.
I REALLY HOPE YOU HAVE NOT DISAPPEARED FROM OUR LIVES GREG. YOU ARE UNIQUELY GOOD! Hope you are well! Please come back !! (if wifey lets you!)
Thanks Vlad, I am fine, this last video in the P-47 series is taking a long time.
@@GregsAirplanesandAutomobiles As long as you are doing well that's what really matters. We can wait though for the next with anticipation. I never thought an engineering show (essentially with WW II aircraft) could hook me but you have. And I have learned a lot of stuff as well. Ex RAF Flight Sgt who served at Fulton airbase near Bristol for 3 years. We had Harriers in the late 70's but my crap eyesight mean't no future as a fighter pilot despite being a natural so I quit. Stay well Greg and thank you for the great videos!
Your channel is a constant reminder of the positive benefits of the internet. Keep up the amazing work, and thank-you. Cheers from Canada.
I often use ROC to confuse people when talking about Taiwan.
That's okay, I often use "Mainland Taiwan" when referring to PRC. 8D
@RenamedInWT Cute, but the nation of Taiwan had nothing to do with the Chinese Cave Chicken Flu that Mainland Taiwan unleashed on the rest of humanity, nor with the Tienamin Massacre, nor with the ongoing Uygher genocide, nor with stripping the Galapagos....
I refer to the PRC as "Chin Alpha" & the RoC as "Chin beta" [based upon size, not on legitimacy, FWIW] as a humourous conceit... X-D
Greg. You have any info about combat p47 R-2800 at 3500HP? some people point it out that r2800 being engineered at the factory was pushing much higher boost pressures with outputs exceeding 3500hp for 100 hours.
interesting relationship we have with taiwan, not officially recognizing them yet selling some of our best weaponry. the chinese always works themselves up into a delightful tizzy over our arms sales to them XD
Wait till Trump builds an embassy there and I bloody think he should. CCP are a stain on the history of mankind.
@@sadwingsraging3044
100% agree, I've always been upset at how everyone's given China a free pass when it comes to communism, as far as I'm concerned as soon as the Cold War in Europe ended the next one should have started in Asia, instead the past 30 years they've been building up their economy (and military) with stolen western tech.
@@dukecraig2402 Any businesses leader or politician that ever looks at a Chyynese bureaucrat and didn't realize they were looking at the CCP and everything they stand for then they were not fit for purpose.
Cultural revolution,,, yeah, seems familiar, I seem to recall seeing something in the news here recently that brings this history to mind... Hang on! Give me a minute, it's right on the tip of my tongue now.
Anyone smell something burning?!!? Oh well,,, I am sure it will come to me later.
Dear Greg:
An absolute excellent presentation though you state in your video that it is your simplified version. Nonetheless, it very much interested me. Also, I was utterly surprised to hear you say the Taiwanese Air Force used the P/F -51 H for Hotel model Mustang. However, the "Jug" is my kinda girl, and again I was surprised to learn the P/F-47 N for November model Thunderbolt was used extensively by the Taiwanese Air Force.
Lastly, a brilliant piece of historical narrative. And, where would one look to search out documentation for markings, etc., on the use of the Taiwanese Air Force P/F-51H Mustang and P/F-47N Thunderbolt respectively. In conjunction with this how likely is it that the P/F-47N Thunderbolt was flown in combat by US pilots?
Farewell,
George Knott,
Australia.
I'm not sure where to find more information, but next time I'm in Taiwan I'll go to the Chiang Kai-shek museum and start there.
For those novices who don't know Greg "Mr. P-47", you may be a bit surprised that halfway into the film there is still no mention of Tom Cruise, the Maverick film or an F-14/15/18. Just bear with it, though, you are learning all about Chinese modern history from the master of pedagogy.
What's odd to me in this is Maverick would never have been on USS Galveston (CL-93), much less the '63-'64 cruise! The mystery is why he wears that patch? I think it would be related to Maverick's dad in some manner.
The soldiers from Formosa supported the Japanese as camp guards in many places but especially in the Sandakan Death Marches where hundreds of Australian and British troops were murdered by the guards.
Great story! A side note on the use of the Sidewinder missile by Taiwan. While they were used to great effect against the PRC, one went up the tailpipe of a MIG 17 and failed to explode. Which gave the communists a gift that they reversed engineered into the K13 air to air missile, referred to by the US and others as the "AA-2 Atoll".
Well Im guessing we won't get a "Taiwanese" P47 livery/skin in DCS...
Anyway I didn't know it saw action after WW2, Thanks for the video.
I would love to see a Taiwan livery in DCS or IL2.
I think we may. There's some freedom in DCS. Customers can make their own skins. I've flown ROCAF F-5E jets a lot in DCS!
Well if it's any consolation, we have a D-28 in ROC livery in War Thunder. We fought for that, by the way in every forum possible.
The jacket squadron patches would with out question of course be changed these days to reflect political correctness and neutrality. The 80’s where great times, these days absolutely are not
Thank you so much... I live in Europe and we talk about communism a lot. It means a lot to me, to be able to know the truth. Its sad that till this day communism still exists. Hope people will learn one day and find the truth or will be able to know it. Have a nice day Greg. Stay safe.
I was in the US Army in Europe during the 80's, our mission was to keep western Europe from being invaded by the communist forces of eastern Europe, it pains me nowadays how all of the sudden everyone's forgotten that communism is an "Evil empire" itself as Reagan said of the Soviet Union, after the fall of the Soviet Union everyone seemed to forget that real quick and China got a pass on that one, I've never agreed with how we've been doing business with them the past 25+ years.
@@dukecraig2402 Yeah Sir. People forget really quick when they dont have to think about it. When you live in fear you want to break free... but if you are allready free you dont think about those horrible things. At least many of us are not. Some people like the idea that everyone is equal in everything. North Korea is a great example how far it can get. Everyone has 300g of rice a day... . People cant imagine what it was. If you like movies based on true story watch MILADA on netflix. Its about slovakian lawyer for human rights in and after WWII. She was sentenced to death by communists.
@@GeorgieSVK
Just yesterday I saw where Kim Jong Idiot over there in North Korea ordered everyone's dog's confiscated from them, he said it's because they "represent western decadence" but people who live there say it's because of food shortages, they say that they're going to be used as food.
Could you imagine living in a place where some despot orders your pet taken away from you and then grinds it up into food?
@@dukecraig2402 Yeah... because LEADER said so. And the best thing on this is that Kim jong ,,saved´´ them. He is the savior of them. GREAT SOLUTION ! Its really weird how one man with big ego can dictate everything. Many people there believe he is saving them from our ,,bad´´ world... They dont know anything about us. Just lies. Komunism at its finest. He will do anything to persuade people that he is ,,great ´´.
@Duke Craig
sorry to tell you but look up the "western free worlds" civilian body count from the annihilation of native americans, slave trade, colonial opression to 20th century terror bombing campaigns from korea, vietnam, cambodia, irak etc... and thats just to name a few.
Ronald Reagan calling others evil empire is just sardonic...
Would love to hear more about late Russian Piston Aircraft vs. P-47s and P-51s. The La-9 and 11 are great looking planes and packed a decent punch with 23mm Cannons. Probably not up to much at high-altitude though.
They weren’t turbocharged or super charged so yeah the LA-9 and LA-11 engines kind of choke and die at high altitude
Nice to see that you watch Binkov on occasion too. He has very entertaining videos but must be taken with a grain of salt. I’m happy you’re bringing attention to this topic! I was horrified to see the flags changed in the trailer
The ship on the thumbnail looks to be the USS Galveston CLG 3. My tour was on the USS Oklahoma City CLG 5. Westpac 1968.
As a proud Oklahoma City native I would like to thank you for your service on our fine ship. I don't know if you know this but the Little Rock (CLG-4) is preserved in Buffalo, New York. I want to visit her someday to see what Oklahoma City was like and because I like ships and airplanes too. Hope you have a good day.
This is good video, I had never heard of the P47 being used in ROC/PRC conflict. If I had seen movie of P47 going against Mig 15 I would have not believed it.
This is interesting link, I think Greg also referenced it:
digitalcommons.calpoly.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1055&context=histsp
It says that ROC pilots spent a couple decades making-do with less advanced aircraft than their enemies. Before they were fighting Mig15's in P47's they were fighting Japanese zero's etc with biplanes. Not easy (I can imagine some Japanese commander saying "don't get in a turning fight with a biplane" ; - ))
The biggest factor in air-combat is often pilot skill, part of the high kill-ratio might have been more experienced ROC pilots vs. poorly trained PRC pilots. Likewise in early part of the war US suffered from less experienced pilots vs. Germany and Japan who had already been fighting for years. Planes like the P40 and F4F were not that bad, flown in proper manner they could do OK against zero's (use your planes strength, avoid zero's strength don't get into a lower speed turning fight). By end of war the skill ranking had reversed as large pool of experienced US pilots faced less-experienced pilots whose ranks were reduced by attrition.
interesting, do all uni publish their thesis? I'm studying irish arch, would be very handy
7:40 Then should the worst be assumed until China proves otherwise? Does this apply to any matter, like the origin of "Covid-19"?
Absolutely
Maybe there'll be a patch on his jacket for that.
"Covid-19 tour 2020".
Something unrelated to the movie but related to bowing down to the ccp is the new Call of Duty game: Call of Duty: Cold War. The trailer for it was released a week ago or something, and Activision had to edit it to take out a 1 second clip of the Tainamen square massacre, the famous Tank Man scene. Just another recent example of people either simpathizing with the ccp or being forced to bow down.
The 47 has never gotten the respect it deserves. Your 47 series was epic, as well as with other aircraft. I would really like to a series where you could possibly relate how well the Corsair & Hellcat would have faired against the best German fighters of WW2. I know Britain used both fighters, but I've never come across any real situations that might dictate how well they did. Thanks for your very informative, always impartial coverage of WW2 era aircraft.
have read somewhere recently, of hellcats in combat with a combined force of 109s and fw190s off Norway, I was surprised myself but the Fleet air arm had both corsairs and hellcats in service.
The P-47, the B-24 and the Hurricane have had to live in the shadow of the P-51, the B-17 and the Spitfire. I love all those planes, but I am drawn to those that don't get the credit they deserve.
@@deplorable_bitter_clinger7482
That's right, P51's and B17's were the darlings of the press corps, and I'll bet a lot of that has to do with them having those planes pushed on them by the high command, no press corps guy in London wanted to write an article saying "Even though the P51 gets all the glory the P47 is the actual workhorse" because the next thing you know instead of living in London where he can sleep in a building, eat hot meals and chase English women around at night he'd find himself in North Africa living in a tent, eating K rations and chasing camels around in his spare time.
Unless something changed between the 1940's and the 1980's when I was in the military that's exactly how that worked.
That Tony in Chinese livery is beautiful
I think so too. I really like that picture. If you look closely you can see bits of the Japanese emblem behind the Republic of China emblem. They just painted over the Japanese insignia. So much history there.
It is a good photo, in that your brain says "That Nationalist Chinese roundel doesn't belong on that airframe."
dannafe I don’t understand, plane is still the same. It’s just cool it’s gotten another layer of history.
Taken 10 minutes before the crankshaft snapped
It would be interesting to do comparison of diffrent guns HMG's and 20mm used on airplanes by diffrent sides of the IIWW. Especially how Japaneese stuff compared to american.
You can go to some of Greg's sources directly. Anthony G. Williams and Emmanuel Gustin being important ones I imagine. Here is one of the links. users.telenet.be/Emmanuel.Gustin/fgun/fgun-in.html I have long found Gustin's gun tables there interesting and useful.
Thanks. That was really interesting.
The Nationalists originally had the island of Hainan but the Communists were able to take that. It's a lot closer to the mainland though. There are also some small islands that the Communists have tried to take
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matsu_Islands
Yeah - as far as Communist Chinese interference in American Culture this movie is not even close to being the only thing. The Communists control a very big market and corporations that care nothing about anything but profit have repeatedly fallen into line.
.
I really wonder if any 'western' pilots fought for ROC🤔
Crisis I, II and III
...sounds like movie sequels not gonna lie.
Could probably do for a good campaign in one of the sims too...
The early trailers for Top Gun: Maverick last year showed the patch as being the same as they were on his jacket in the first movie (1986), then all of the sudden after a short amount of time after they started showing it it was GCI'd to look as it does now in the trailer.
You're not going to see a Taiwanese patch on the front of his jacket when this movie comes out.
Duke, I think you're right, but I can't go all in on the condemnation until I see the movie.
@@GregsAirplanesandAutomobiles
The original trailer only lasted days maybe a week at most and it was changed, there's actually UA-cam channels that people recorded the original trailer and show the comparison to the CGI'd one, I remember when it happened and how everyone was up in arms over it, it was right around the time that pro athletes were apologizing for supporting the Hong Kong protestors on Twitter, they'd say something in support and then the next day (after obviously having had a talking to from high above) they'd be apologizing to the Chinese government, Lebron James is one of them that did it.
This is why I've, nearly completely, given up on western media, pretty much just anime now and games, mostly Japanese games. It isn't all good, but it's better than that. I also, of course watch Greg's videos, along with other UA-cam content. Gotta say never thought I would find another nail for the 'Hollywood' cult's coffin here. They're not us anymore.
One of the best Channels on You Tube!
Neat video, you should do more historic videos on little-known or little-covered conflicts involving piston-engine fighters. The most prominent example that comes to mind is that south-American war that involved Corsairs. Does anyone know if Greg mentioned this in his corsair videos?
Thanks, and yes, I do mention it there.
He did mention it and expertly tied in warm beer and Lucas Electronics to that very topic!!
12:30 General Tso and Tso crossing the Yellow River?
I wonder if that's where he got his chicken recipe from?
Nice summary of history. Today Taiwan is a great America Ally, China, not so much.
This alteration of a patch for political reasons is nothing new. If you look at one of the early colorized versions of Republic Studio's 1942 [B&W] release of ''The Flying Tigers'' you will see the Blood Chit on the back of Duke Wayne's A2 jacket is all Red like the ChiCom flag, not the original Red field with White Sun Yat-sen sun in a Blue canton. The AVG clearly flew for Chiang Kai-shek. But if the film owners can't show their film in one of the biggest markets in the East, what's historical accuracy compared to making a Buck?
Well, having served in U.S. Naval Aviation in the 1970's, I would find it quite difficult to watch the new "top gun" film. We actually had a pilot in our squadron who buzzed the tower at Naval Air Station Lemoore, Ca. after not receiving acknowledgement of his signal that his main radio was out.
By the time he had landed, the process of kicking him to the curb was underway. He was out of the Navy within weeks.
"Maverick" exemplifies exactly the sort of cocky moron who is neither appreciated nor tolerated in U.S. Naval Aviation.
All that is true. The representation of pilots in the movie was all wrong, almost as bad as the way airline pilots are presented.
@soaringtractor You really could not be more wrong if you tried. I think the only notable ace pilot in all history to match the wild "Maverick" stereotype might be Chuck Yeager, and even then it's not reflected in his flying, but his generally smug and sometimes abrasive attitude outside the cockpit. Every other pilot I can think of are generally pretty level-headed professionals, typically pretty humble and open about their weaknesses, but otherwise as varied in personality as anyone else.
@soaringtractor Comment makes it look like you are triggered. Comments looks nice, structured and calm.
Just take this advice and try to prevent these sorts of comments. It makes you look a bit like a fool, while I believe you aren't!
It's a movie. I have served. No Hollywood movie reflects what is "real" military. I watch so I have an excuse to drink martinis and escape COVID. It's movie not a documentary.
Absolutely! The Navy nor the Army Air Force had any room for mavericks tipping over the apple cart. Just ask Billy Mitchell.....
It's interesting to note that the P-47 persisted in ANG service well past the P-51, I'm thinking into the late 1950s? There must have been a good reason for that.
1953 is when the ANG quit using it, and it's for no more reason than why the National Guard had M1 rifles at Kent State in 1970, they're the last one's to get equipment updates.
What you have to understand about the Guard faction of the Army and Air Force is that unlike the Reserves they're not task with national defense, they're at the disposal of the Governor's of each state unless a Presidential or Wartime measure folds them back into the military, simply put they work for a states Governor and not the President, unless re-task as regular military in case of a war.
So good news is the US release of the film had the original and proper flags. I assume it was edited for the PRC.
It’s also interesting that 3 years later the ability of Taiwan to stop an invasion even with full US support is very much in doubt.
Do a video on refueling. Have an uncle that was killed during the first trials with a piston plane refueling a jet. Your work is and should be keep into a history archive
"I'm going to way over simplify" good joke :)
Hi Greg, thank you very much for brining this topic about Taiwan to people's attention. Chinese government have been trying to erase Taiwan's image for decades and to some extent they are successful. A US Navy veteran I met in San Diego even asked me whether my uncle flew a Mig after I mentioned he was a fighter pilot in Taiwan before. I was very disappointed. (This Navy veteran's model ship shop in La Jolla is amazing and definitely worth a visit though!) My uncle flew F-5E and three of my cousins are commercial pilots now. This is how I became an aviation enthusiast :)
Just got to love the photo of the Taiwan Sabre!! Cutting edge technology, with a low-tech bicycle under it's port wing!! 🤣👍
Spending important resources on what is important.
No need for motorcycles, bicycles are competent.
The Dutch Army still uses bicycles in official service to get around military bases. The thing is even called ''dienstfiets'' service bicycle :D
When I worked the flight line at Beale, I often took a bicycle out to the ramp where the SR-71 and U2Rs were parked. Perfect for the job!
There was also US Army and Air Force defending Taiwan back in those days. As a little kid I lived on Taiwan and remember the convoys running around the island. My father was a US Army advisor stationed at CCK Air Base. Of course the US Air Force was there also. CCK Air Base is still active today under the control of Republic Of China Air Force.
My father told me he used to see USAF's F-4 Phantom in Tainan Air Base when he went there to see my uncle, who was in ROCAF and stationed there at that time :) I believe that was during the Vietnam War.
@@catchen0422 I'm not surprised at all by what you posted. I knew a guy that was stationed at CCK during the Viet Nam conflict. Also, there was a US Navy base at Kaohsiung.
I appreciate the narrator of this video and the work he put in. However, I wish he would have mentioned the US presence on Taiwan back then.
I spent over 30 years as an engineer in the US Merchant Marine with a good portion of the time on the China coast. I have many memories of seeing Taiwan work its way from poverty to the great place it is today.
I love Taiwan and her people. If the CCP were to somehow take over the island I would be devastated.
wiki:
During the Taiwan Strait battles of 1958, a ROCAF AIM-9B hit a PLAAF MiG-17 without exploding; the missile lodged in the airframe of the MiG and allowed the pilot to bring both plane and missile back to base. Soviet engineers later said that the captured Sidewinder served as a "university course" in missile design and substantially improved Soviet air-to-air capabilities
Wow that says a great deal they'd trade p51 for p47?!
Dear muskeptic: I was a little bit surprised also, but after watching some of Greg’s other videos, it became clear to me that the P 47 was a scapegoat for short range and P 51 henceforth dominated the European theater or long range escort.
Lots of P 51 pilots died on account of their aircraft being more vulnerable, especially on ground attack.
On the other hand the P 47 was much tougher with the Air cooled engine and other design factors, and it also seems that the P 47 was a highly effective fighter aircraft, and it also had a very long range.
I suppose in a fantasy world where someone flying a P 51 gets to do all the shooting and nothing is coming back his way, you would choose that beautiful P 51.
But in a real knife fight where everyone is shooting at everyone else, you’re much safer in a P 47 thunderbolt, and the thunderbolt Carries far more ordinance.
Greg covers all of this stuff way better than my Helter skelter summary.
The p47 can take a lot more damage, especially in the engine. (P47 is radial, p51 is liquid cooled). And Taiwan wouldn't have needed the extra range of the p51. I remember a documentary saying 98%of the us pilots in wwii who flew the p47 survived the war.
You fly a Mustang to get the girl, but you fly a Thunderbolt to get home to see your girl....beautiful.❤️🇺🇸
Thunderbolts and Corsairs forever !! Two of the absolute best, albeit most overlooked aircraft. I'd always choose the American plane with the big radial....everytime.
Not going to bother with it! I have pretty much stopped going to the movies. What few movies I do go to have been so good that I can't tell you the three that I saw in 2020 were. I got better uses for 20 bucks. As for The Republic of China on Taiwan, they are the lawful government of China. They did pretty much all the fighting in WW-II while the Communist just did the minimum and stockpiling stuff to take the country afterward. You want to hurt the PRC, and they got it coming, Recognise The Republic of China on Taiwan- You get 70 or so Nations to do so and they are screwed. It should be a no brainer after the lying they did with the COVID-19
I guess I can talk politics, seeing as politics is being talked. A fair bit of stick was thrown at the W.H.O. and their disinclination to discuss Taiwan (which had done a good job of containing Covid-19 in early 2020) as an example of the org being in the pocket of CCP/PRC. Worth bearing in mind that shifting in your seat at the mention of Taiwan is an international phenomenon. I remember (with some disgust) the 1999 State Visit and Blair making sure that Metropolitan Police cooperated with Chinese security services pointing out anyone who might be wearing a T-shirt in Tibetan colours so that they could be banged up in a van for several hours. Blair even more odiously arselicked the 2015 visit of Xi, who puts most previous PRC leaders into the "not bad for a totalitarian" category.
This video is an interesting addition to my knowledge of the P-47 and back when I was a much younger man I wished many times I was rich enough to buy one the remaining few and learn to fly it. Of course the first book about the P-47 that I read as a youngster, 12, maybe 14(?) was Martin Caidin's book "Thunderbolt" which is a combined book about the P-47 and one man's (Robert S. Johnson) career as a P-47 pilot and how after being voted most likely to be shot down after some of his early missions, everything started to click and 11 months after he arrived in England he was transferred back stateside as the European Theater leading ace with either 27 or 28 kills of German fighters. BF-109s and FW-190s mostly with only 2 ME-110s. Speaks loudly for the survivability of the P-47 that he survived flying back to England in a crippled Thunderbolt after a lone German fighter found him limping back towards the coast and dropped back and started firing into the Thunderbolt. Fortunately his cannons were already empty but the German fired several hundred rounds of their smaller caliber machine guns into the P-47 and Johnson and his Thunderbolt just kept flying along as best he could. It's an amazing book about an amazing Airplane and an Amazing Pilot.
Thank you for this video.
True Story: I popped in on a SpaceX launch with live chat about 7 weeks ago and somebody mentioned Wernher von Braun and how we should thank him so I responded - exactly like this: zeig... - that was it, one word and three dots. I was kicked out of the chat. Because Wernher was a Nazi, ya see, and I was implying "zeig heil" which means yay victory or something. People are so sensitive about the bad guys.
Nice video on P47 and Formosa. 2021.01.14 DJT (POTUS): USA formally recognized Taiwan as an independent sovereign nation yesterday.
Commiewood always gets history wrong anyway, if I see a good war movie I like, I google that battle and get the actual history that way.
Tom Cruise has always been a bit of an eccentric, being a regular in Commiewood you need something to keep you at least a bit planted, although granted, he could have just gone to a regular church.
But from what I heard about the Top Gun 2 set, it was a case of a few bored deck-hands and social media blowing it out of proportion, he wasnt an introvert on the carrier, but really pressed for time and didnt get to go out of his acting-mode and greet as much of the crew as he wanted, and that's all he had to say about that> He's not getting on his knees, fair enough in my book!
But when I heard they sucked up to Chinese $'s for this movie = I'm out, might (or might not) watch it on popcorn time though!
It's typical in sequels to have the lead actor not participate in the sequel, and for a supporting actor to take over the lead in the sequel.
It happens here .. No Tomcat in the sequal, and supporting actor takes over..
But sequels like that are typically terrible.. weak as.
as such Top gun 2 aint worth watching in cinema, or paying for it. Better watch Iron Eagle 1 or something
Nice photo of USS Galveston (CLG-3) at 10:25 . I was on sister ships USS Little Rock (CLG-4) and USS Springfield (CLG-7).
Hey Greg. Fantastic video! I have a question and I was wondering if you might know the answer to it. Did a group similar to that of AVG that flew against the Japanese also fly against the communists in the civil war? Or perhaps the other way around? Soviet contractors flying against nationalist forces?
Thanks J M, I simply don't know. I don't think any US or other pilots flew for Taiwan. Soviet pilots may have flown for the communist side as they did in Korea, but I have no way of knowing for sure. They kept that sort of thing pretty quiet back then. My thinking is that with Mig 15s, and 17s, yeah, they probably had some Soviet pilots flying at least some missions.
@@GregsAirplanesandAutomobiles The Soviets didnt fly against the Taiwanese. In the book Red
Wings over the Yalu it is mentioned that the Soviets didnt want to get involved in the invasion of Taiwan over fear that it would lead to direct confrontation with the Americans leading to escalation so the pilots were forbidden to take part in it meaning that it would only be up to the Chinese to invade the island nation. Here is the pdf if you want to read the book.
epdf.pub/search/Red+Wings+over+the+Yalu%3A+China%2C+the+Soviet+Union%2C+and+the+Air+War+in+Korea
and another important piece on the Taiwanese Air Force
digitalcommons.calpoly.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1055&context=histsp
PRC runs Hollywood!! Cheers!!
Not defending him because he's a sellout anyways. But if you ran a studio. And a small change would allow access to hundreds of millions of movie goers, are you surprised they would do this to please China? Maybe stop buying made in China products (is that possible?). It's sad how Republic Aviation which made some fantastic aircraft, couldn't get into the civilian market. Even now the A-10 is probably one of the best bang for the buck planes ever built.
I thought the leather jacket Pete Mitchell wears in the movie belonged to his late father Duke Mitchell who was KIA in Vietnam. The timeline makes sense that Duke could have been deployed on the Galveston when it visited Taiwan in 1962. That means he was deployed when his son Pete was born, perhaps making the patch more sentimental. It is unclear why Duke would have had a patch from that particular vessel as he was a F-4 pilot assigned to a squadron aboard the USS Oriskany with Viper. But perhaps the Galveston has played a crucial role in supporting some Naval aviation operations during that time. topgun.fandom.com/wiki/Duke_Mitchell
I don't think they have a backstory with that much detail.
Same reason one of the actors wears a "Molly" patch from VAW-124. The costume designers don't know, or care.
On the subject of the Straits air battle--Didn't the Chinese (and the Soviets) get their hands on an AIM-9B Sidewinder after one got stuck in a MiG-17 and then use the captured missile as the basis for the AA-2 Atoll?
Yes, good job recalling that!
Yes. The missile lodged in a Mig without detonating. The Russians had already obtained the AIM-9 manuals from a foriegn, non-US officer. Once they obtained the missile through China, they were set to reverse engineer and go into production.
I guess that the name of the rocket soviets produced after capturing AIM-9B is R-3S (Р-3С). Interestingly, they did this several times, e.g. in Afganistan in 1980's soviet special forces were able to get some Stingers and then improved their own rocket system called Igla-S and Igla (Игла-С, Игла)
Not saying you're lying, but I think that story is far too crazy to be true. The more likely story is a corrupt someone, in government, selling off the tech for kickbacks. It's the same story everywhere you go, it's always about money. Maybe I'm wrong and it did happen, but it sounds about as far fetched as the story around Epistein.
@@shatteredstar9565 I think Dark Docs (I'm trying to remember off the top of my head so I could be wrong on who's channel) or another UA-cam channel had this within the last two months or so about the missile getting lodged in the plane as well as the technology being stolen in Germany.
The more often and petty China gets, the less I trust them.
wat
The last air battle over the Strait was in January 13th, 1967, where ROCAF F-104Gs shot down two J-6s over two sorties in the morning and afternoon. Of the 4 engaged 104s, Maj. Yang' 104 would later crash due to spatial disorientation, the other pilot to shot down Mig in that engagement Captain Shi recently passed away on July 31st, 2020.
Hmmmm, with the current regime in Washington does anyone really think the US would support Taiwan?
I think it's sad that they are pulling off this kind of censoreship
High kill ratios are believable considering the 'boom and zoom' energy tactics this particular fighter excelled at. When done correctly, the aircraft is almost invulnerable. The only counter is a head-on response, and no one wants to go head on against a thunderbolt. Most targets just panic.
And if you get in trouble you dive. If you are in a P47 gravity is your friend (unless you stall).
The way you present this story is exceptional. You don’t make any assumptions that you can’t explain and present the information without bias. It’s refreshing to hear this or any subject manner done this way as it’s a very rare sight these days.
From my reading Stilwell got along with very few people !
Hey Greg, I know your main topics are airplanes and automobiles, but is there any chance you could do a video on early piston-powered helicopters?
I might, I did touch on a very early helicopter in my Me163 video.
@@GregsAirplanesandAutomobiles It would be great if you did! I'm certain your videos take a lot of time due to their intricacy so if you decide to make it, I'll be patient.
I really appreciate your work on these niche subjects, it's awesome!
They use to etch how much the P-47s (and other aircrafts as well) cost on the side of the cockpit and remind the pilot to take "careful use" of the aircraft. One story as told by a retired officer mentioned that his wingman, barely out of flight training in a P-47, with his engine caught on fire refused to bail out over the course of 30 minutes because he believes he can save the aircraft and divert to Kinmen, only for his a/c to explode in midair within sight of the island.
Outstanding job! Especially pointing out the influence of the CCP reach into the US "entertainment" industry.
Thank you for covering this post WW2 history of the P-47
Glad you aren't censored in telling a bit of history! And, the use of the famous ww2 fighters post-war by Taiwan is new to me great video.
Greg
So the DB605's ECR is 8.9-1 for B4 at 1.42ata
and 11.05-1 at 1.7ata with MW50
since in your D9 VS P51 video: ECR=(sqrt*ATA)*CR
Am i right here?
Yes, for example, if we take the higher compression cylinder bank from a DB605 it has a static compression ratio of 8.5:1. So take the square root of the ATA, which is 1.7 and we get 1.3 (I'm rounding here) then multiply that by 8.5 and we get 11.05. So you did well! Good work.
@@GregsAirplanesandAutomobiles oh yeahhh thank you
@@GregsAirplanesandAutomobiles but why is that the DB605 could run so much more ECR with low ATA and lower number b4/c3 fuel? P51D with 150 fuel 75 inch only had 9.5-1 ECR.
Stillwell did not get along with a lot of people. The nickname Vinegar Joe should be an indication.
Hey Greg, would you cover the AD-1 [maybe linking it to the P-47, as they seem very close in profile, despite their radically different mission objectives.] I find the history of one of the last propeller-driven planes of WW2 lasting so long into the jet age to be fascinating, and the fact that this single-engine CAS vehicle carried the same bomb load as a 4 engine B-17 quite impressive...
If you mean the A1 Skyraider it had a 3,350 ci engine in it, the same engine that was used in the B29 Superfortress (it had 4 of course) P47's had a 2,800 ci engine in them.
And comparing it's bomb load to a B17 is a tricky thing, B17's could be configured to carry up to 20,000 lbs of bombs with under wing racks, but that would drop it's altitude and range down considerably, as with loading an A1 up with it's max load of 8,000 lbs, at it's max weight it may appear to be able to carry as much as a B17 but it's altitude and range would probably be less than a B17 with 8,000 lbs of bombs.
You have to watch rating aircraft for loads like that, what Wikipedia and other simplified sources of information don't explain is that you don't get a bombers max load and max altitude and max range all in one shot, typically max altitudes listed on those planes can't be achieved with it's max payload, as neither can it's max range if it's loaded with it's max payload.
That's what people don't get when comparing a B17 to a Lancaster bomber, Lancaster's have an internal bombay capacity around twice that of a B17 but when they're loaded up that much they can't fly at their max listed altitude or fly as far as their max range is listed.
Despite it appearing on paper to be able to carrying twice the bomb load as a B17 if a Lancaster was loaded to do a deep penetration high altitude mission like the B17's typically did they could only carry about the same amount of bombs, otherwise they wouldn't be able to fly as high and they wouldn't have enough range to go all the way to the target and back.
Like I said you don't get the max payload AND the max altitude AND the max range all at the same time despite what people think when they look at those numbers on Wikipedia.
Now that's something they don't teach in High School history class, THANK YOU very much.
Mao zedong a man so crazy he made Stalin say “dude wtf”
the P-47 was a workhorse...
Hope you are ok Greg, it's been a while, best wishes.
Thanks Notmah, I'm fine, and I'll have a new video out soon.
@@GregsAirplanesandAutomobiles oh good, I'm glad to hear you're well, and I look forward to your next video
Thanks for clarifying that about China and Taiwan. I only had a general understanding of the differences between the two countries
The high kill-to-loss ratio could be close considering a couple possibilities: 1) The Soviets were selling the ChiComs a lot of junk aircraft, 2) the ChiComs were giving people basic flight training and sending them up to fight.
What I find interesting is that Trumpeter, a Chinese model company, produce plastic model kits of the P-40 Warhawk in AVG markings, which of course has the Nationalist Chinese markings on the box art and decal sheet. One wonders if these kits are also sold in China, or only exported. In any case, the Communist Chinese workers would naturally be exposed to the Nationalist symbols during the kit production runs, would they not?
In PRC (People's Republic of China, i.e. China) ideology, ROC (Republic of China, i.e. Taiwan) was replaced by them in 1949 so no longer exist. ROC symbol is OK to appear in China, but only when background is historical.
LOL. PRC pays the new POTUS more than RoC. Taiwan's fate is sealed.
In any event, money talks louder than honor.
Anyway, thank you for an excellent, concise summary of the events both current and old.
I'm not sure yet. It depends on bit on how you read the 12th amendment, and it may possibly depend on how the supreme court reads it.
Fascinating bit of history.
I remember reading in my book on the F-104 Starfighter that it possibly saw some combat between Taiwan and China back in the 1950's. Otherwise the 104 never fired a shot in anger.
Thanks for more on the P47. One of the most interesting histories ever. Well, I'll probably get clobbered for saying this BUT, we all buy Chinese products in America. We are all guilty. It's cheap, it's on sale. Unfortunately this has not been great for American industry or jobs. It's up to us to at least moderate this influencing our jobs and foreign policy. No president including the present occupant in the white house will change this. It's up to us. As far as changes to movies, was the pearl harbor movie of a few years ago (ugh) made a little more friendly to Japan because of commercial appeal? Thanks for the inspiration, I'm going to build a p47 model.
When you are out at -30 , replacing a chinese part that was not made for cold weather you soon learn to appreciate stuff made on this side of the pond , but it's just not available because ppl keep buying cheap and suppliers stock what sells
@@lesgallivan4159
I spend my money in America as much as I possibly can, buying cheap Chinese junk is even more expensive because you have to turn around and buy another one right away when that one breaks.
Unfortunately greed trumps patriotism. No pun intended. A bunch of rich folks got even richer after Nixon paved the way to ship our manufacturing base to China where the workers earn whatever wage the Party says they get.
Most of the chinese goods purchased are the only choices available for that product because of the greater profit margin so they're the only ones carried by retailers