A-10C Thunderbolt II Vs P-47 Thunderbolt Dogfight | Digital Combat Simulator | DCS |
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- Опубліковано 10 вер 2021
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If you enjoy war thunder or Microsoft flight simulator 2020, consider getting yourself into Digital Combat Simulator by Eagle Dynamics, the Combat side of Aviation with the BVR and Dogfights really provides a different and interesting perspective on aviation. You can fly all kinds of combat aircraft including the F-16, F-15, F-14, JF-17, Su-27, Mig-29, Mirage and the F-18 Hornet along with many other aircraft and helicopters like the Ka-50 and Mi-8. - Ігри
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Just another day or doing stupid things lol, turned out to be kind of fun. Big Thank you to TxTx for helping with the video and a Big thank you to all of you for watching, and also congratulations to Shammadar for winning the world war 2 giveaway.
Yay, finally 2 aircraft from separate wars dogfighting!
The A-10 has the most massive, powerful gun ever mounted on a fighter/strike fighter. The planform was designed _around_ that beast of a gun. I agree; your first hits shoulda shredded him. Man, the Hawg can shred a _tank_ in one pass.
@@skyhorseprice6591 this was a problem German tiger tanks had the gun is so powerful it just pinches right through. The metal on the P-47 is so thin it doesn't detonate the round.
@@rexmann1984
Interesting. I'd not thought of that. With tanks, rounds might've detonated in the ground below the tank and caused some damage, but in the air they'd just pass right through. Hmmm. I wonder if it's that?
@@skyhorseprice6591 if it is, thats one hell of a simulation
Reminder that the A-10 is closer in age to the thunderbolt than to the f-35
@@s4dg What a fact, I didn't know that!
@@s4dg What do you mean?
@@dade.9948 same day and month different year probably
So am I ! What are ya tryin to say! lmfao!
@@weirddudes5543 the A-10’s official designation is the thunderbolt2
If it becomes possible at some point, a Tomcat vs Zero "Final Countdown" fight might be fun.
That's a fucking cool idea
Great fucking movie!
Tomcat vs Spitfire would still be entertaining.
A squad of tomcats vs a carrier group of zeros
OMG YES
"in their defence, the devs probably didnt expect the p47 to take 30mm shots"
*sad mk108 noises*
Yeah late war 109s had a thirty mil in the nose
@@itmejac6945 as a slow fire rate cannon not a friggen gau 8
@@RealPyro88 and extremely slow muzzle velocity on the rounds as well.
Mk108 was an exploding potato , not a stubby nuclear rod
@@jackd1582 High velocity DU is a MUCH different animal than the mk108 - low velocity but in most case they were explosive rounds in Air to Air - so would pack a punch when they hit.
My Grandfather told me the P47 was one of the toughest aircraft he ever flew. It was known to come back with battle damage missing 4 or more cylinders and still flying!
Next up: Sopwith Camel vs SU57
Lightning vs Lightning
That would be beautiful
Viewers: “Oh, this is hopeless.”
GS: “Goes to show, never underestimate the situational awareness that an open-air cockpit gives you. Splash one.”
The Sopwith would honestly probably be able to outmaneuver even the supermanuverability tbh
This
It was fun seeing “never try to turn with the A-10” flipped around into “never go vertical against the A-10.”
Yeah go figure. I didn't see that coming. You dance in the mud with a HOG U gonna get muddy.
With a WWII fighter the rule seems to be always turn and never go vertical unless it's against an older WWII plane.
@@skaldlouiscyphre2453 You can do it against the Zero with a Hellcat. Double Wasp, baby.
tl;dr: if you've got the better power/weight ratio, go vertical.
@@skaldlouiscyphre2453 Props can only pull so much air over the wings per cycle, unlike a turbine engine.
The Jug: *gets smacked by 30mm*
Also The Jug: Tis but a scratch
The A-10 got it from somewhere
@@air-headedaviator1805 every now and then they nail the legacy names.. once i realized back when i was a kid that the cockpit and cannon make the A10 a tank in plane's clothing, i realized why they gave her such a distinguished name.
The pilot died of radiation poisoning from urainum rounds. He continued on as a zombie.
You would get more radiation from the sunlight coming through the canopy than carrying a DU round in your pocket. Breathing particles from DU rounds going through something solid are a different matter.
@@lics01 Yeah chemically poisonous, although if ingested then the Alpha particles become a problem too.
@@lics01 Same with regular uranium.
This is the content the internet was made for.
OnlyFans left the chat. (literally :D)
You know what stands out the most, more than the imbalance between these two aircraft, is that in either one, GS still wins.
Just a matter of knowing how to fight in it anyone here could have done it with an understanding of the fundamentals of BFM
@D Hill mainly not playing to the strengths of the enemy ...anyone who commits to horizontal turns with a prop in a jet simply doesnt know what he is doing
@@Asghaad or who tries to outclimb a jet with a prop aircraft, lmao!
@@rameynoodles152 if you refuse to climb at all then you already lost... if you ignore him and let him gain altitude and energy advantage you might as well jump out now and spare yourself the stress of being BnZd to death...
@@Asghaad well, the p47, shouldn't try to out climb a jet engine, you need to draw him into a turn circle. I would have brought the a10 down to the deck,
I think it's pretty clear they only coded the weapons and damage models to play nicely with like-era aircraft. I've noticed the warbirds tend to feel excessively resistant to missile hits sometimes, as well.
I'm learning how the mechanics of a dogfight work...you play your plane's strengths and know your opponent's weaknesses.
The way GS starts calling his viewers insane because they watch his videos.
Ahahah we’re all in this together
i mean ... he isnt wrong there ... :)
It's the kind of abuse James Reeves' fans tune in for.
@@meanderingmarley3910 James is REALLY salty he isn't as popular as his cousin Keanu. "Yeah he's my cousin... whatever."
Sanity is overrated
The mechanical sound of those .50s cycling in slowmo is... *chef's kiss*
Or the Salt sprinkle meme
"Sometimes I wake up in the mood to do stupid things." -GS
Yes please! 😂
Wait? You guys do it only sometimes?
The disparate damage models is a known issue with E.D. There are two scales of damage that don't mix well. Warbird vs warbird is fine, Jet vs Jet is fine, but warbird vs jet leaves the warbird at a serious advantage as they are keyed to take more damage from the smaller guns.
We've been playing a map where waves of increasingly better aircraft, starting with warbirds and WWII bombers, have to be stopped. We've had skin hits with AIM-7MH Sparrows and AIM-9M Sidewinders on everything WWII and they did remarkably little damage. B-S level little damage. The model is shot through with holes, but still flying and barely smoking. Often takes gun or follow-up missile shots to finish them off.
So no, it's not you, it's E.D. (like always).
I got a giggle seeing the one 30mm hit causing some scratches in the paint.
Maybe the A-10 gun is way overpenetrating, it was after all made primarily for attacking armored ground targets iirc. That could cause the projectile to be less effective in delivering its potential destructive power.
It's worked against other jets in this game in the past, which have even less armor than a P-47 does, so idk
P-47 only has armor around the cockpit, and even then not actually that much, most of its durability comes from being really big and having redundant systems, plus the radial engine and turbo supercharger being inherently more damage resistant than contemporary alternatives
Isn't it supposed to have a combo of AP and some kind of incendiary rounds loaded together?
I think the latter must do the job. I'd imagine it's the damage model that lacks in this regard.
@@zloychechen5150 ap and incendiary are probably not as good as he vs old planes undless you hit the engine in the front of the plane you can poke a lot of holes in the airframe and it will "just" be 30mm holes. if you hit a modern jet in the fuselage you are close to guaranteed a hit on the engine which will disintegrate und rip apart.
@@floriankrause7203 .50 api was excellent and punching through and lighting things on fire, just ask the Nazi's
In any other context, "a jug tussling with a warthog" sounds like a drunken fantasy.
The difference in time between the first flight of the P-47 (1941) and the first flight of the A-10a (1972) is 31 years.
The A-10 has been flying for 49 years and counting.
Damn it I feel old now
What we learned: GS can curbstomp anything no matter what plane he's in
he tried taking on the su 57 in a f 14 but he failed
well it was more lack of skill from the other player
I'm so proud of myself right now!! I've watched enough of your videos to correctly guess the A-10 should have used the vertical to fight the P-47, and that's the first thing you said when you switched over to the A-10.
That's a good rule of thumb for jets versus props in general. Exploit the power advantage and all that.
The prop on the other hand had to try to use its higher agility to get out of the jets line of fire and then capitalise on the small window of opportunity to take a shot as the jet tears away again.
This is what allied pilots did against ME-262 back in the day.
@@towarzyszbeagle6866 an OV10 tried to do just that against F-16 in some coup somewhere years ago. Sometimes though, the energy gap is just too great to compensate
Look, we all love the A-10, so just make a series where you dog fight the A-10 against everything you can.
He'll yes I'm in. All day long.
Why not, A 10 vs SU 57
@@beatboxbuggi6884 A-10 vs the world
Yes
GS, that was a real treat. Never thought I'd see an A-10 Boom-N-Zoom, engage in high alpha ACM, and be outclassed by the Jug regarding hits/damage. Time to light that special cigar I've been saving for a special occasion.
I feel this would be even more interesting if the skill gap was smaller
For sure
Yeah, this video ended up being really disappointing. The other guy offered basically no challenge and it was like watching GS kick a puppy.
@@katherinespezia4609 to be fair to the guy, he's clearly learning. He tried replicating what GS did, and tried taking the A-10 more vertical his second time. But I think he didn't quite understand WHY it worked for GS.
Watching the A-10 get into a turn fight with a prop fighter, I knew how it was going to go from that point on. The other player/pilot was never going to win any of those duels.
That’s for sure. Other pilot was not very skilled. He was learning though
Next up: F22 vs Wright flyer
Might need post-stall maneuvering to even aim with that speed difference.
I'm still waiting for Cap's STOL/MTD vs Wright Flyer video... :D
Maybe GS can beat him to it :)
the 30mm on the A-10 generally fires DU sabot rounds designed for tanks, if you fire them at a WW2 aircraft they will mostly go straight through unless they hit some vital component like a wind spar or the engine.
german WW2 30mms were the complete opposite, they were absolutely loaded with HE which made them extremely deadly against aircraft of the time. You should've loaded HE belts for this battle
Should have still tore the wing apart
@@OCinneide I think it depends on the parts of the wing that you hit.
The P-47 has a long history of taking heavy amounts of fire and still being flyable. If the A-10 here in this dogfight is using uranium rounds, then I’m not surprised the Jug maintained its basic flight characteristics. He did kill the engine pretty easily though with one hit from the 30 mm.
if there is Combat mix loaded, every 5th round should be HEI, so there should be a chance of ripping wings off....
@@catchaaron and 4 du shots to pilot side did nothing
Your narrative(s) and flying capabilities are outstanding. It's why I love watching your vids.
I appreciate you sir.
@@GrowlingSidewinder No I appreciate you sir. Great vids and as always shows it is not the plane but the pilot. I really loved the WW 1 shot them with a hand gun vids. So funny!!
This just shows that superior tactics and using your strengths and exposing their weaknesses is the key to any kind of combat, far beyond dogfighting.
The battle we didn't know we needed
Next dogfight:
P51 mustang vs Ford mustang
“I have a few horsepower on him.”
@@Activated_Complex he can definitely turn inside you!
as someone who's been into WWII aviation for a long time, while the 30mm round is some serious shit, the P-47 was probably only rivaled in durability by the B-17 back then. they were known for their survivability.
I absolutely LOVE these asymmetric fights between props and jets! Can't wait for the Zero to make it's way into DCS. Then we could do Zero vs F14 ;)
That feeling when 50 cals do more damage on a jet than 30mm on a prop
Against the Defense of the developers:
The later versions of the Bf-109s got an 30mm cannon in the Nose…
Edit: Yes I know that not every cannon is the same, but when you design one 30mm for planes of that period of time with an unique damage model, you could just adapt it and not include it at all.
But most likely, I think that the shell just punches through and detonate not.
The DCS 109 K4 we have now has 65 rounds of 30mm
yes, but not all 30mm were created equal. The energy of the 30x90RB, for the mk108 (330g @ 540m/s) vs the 30×173 (395g @ 1,010 m/s) -- it's around a quarter of the kinetic energy (just shy of (50k J vs just over 200k), not to mention the firing rate(650/minute vs 3900/minute). The mark 112 fares slightly better but still, that Thunderbird should have been ripped in half.
Great flying by GS, though, shows how the pilot makes all the difference!!
@@OrigMaelstrom tldr A10 30mm is stronger than bf109 30mm
@@OrigMaelstrom One problem for the GAU-8 might be its armor penetration - the rounds may quite simply punch right through the P-47 without laying down much of that energy at all. The MK108 (and other airplane cannon of the time) fired high explosive shells intended to detonate on plane hulls like that of the P-47, or more exactly, the bombers it would escort - while the GAU-8 fired armor piercing ammunition intended to break through medium armor.
And lest we forget, the old Thunderbolt was also feared and hated by its enemies for being very difficult to kill!
@@autochton combat mix should have HE rounds that are intended to pierce thin car/truck skin and detonate, they should be ideal for taking out metal skinned warbirds.
The 30mm probably just over penetrates unless it hits something really solid.
Precisely this. The P-47 is a lot of empty space. Modern aircraft are more or less just solid masses due to everything possible being crammed into them. The rounds that the A-10 are firing are meant to be able to penetrate a somewhat armored object and then explode inside that object. The fuse on the round relies on a certain hardness to cause it to trip if you will and then detonate the round. There is a minimum force required for that fuse and entire sections of the P-47 are clearly well under that threshold. What you need to "melt" the P-47 is almost pure HE rounds.
The inverse would be true if the P-47 had cannons of the time as they were mostly HE rather than a form of APHE. The P-47 would have had a harder time killing the A-10 because the nearly pure HE rounds would have had a harder time blowing the aircraft apart in general due to the construction methods of dedicated modern combat aircraft design. British 20mms of the time had HEF-SAPI and would be the most effective rounds from that time against the A-10. .50 caliber guns that were mostly AP was arguably the second best ammo type to be using against the A-10 after the British HEF-SAPI rounds. Yes, I know that the HEF-SAPI rounds are nothing like the ammo that the A-10 is using here but the fuse on the HEF-SAPI has a long enough delay to it that it wouldn't be exploding on the outside surface of the A-10. Exploding inside the structure of the A-10 is going to do a lot more damage to it than exploding on the outer surface.
This is ultimately a great demonstration of how the right type of ammo is critical to get desired results. The wrong type of ammo can end up giving rather disappointing results while ultimately still being able to do the job eventually.
Sure. But it should still rip sizeable holes as it goes through. And it's not like those doing the damge model could not expect it to be hit by a variety of autocannons given how prevalent they were in any airforce other than the US one in WWII. Plus all the AAA.
The P47 was pretty thicc though
@@raidzor5452 Not THAT thicc, come on, the Gau-8 is an anti tank weapon. I think the damage model isn't registering the number of hits properly. The reason the P-47 should be swiss cheese is it got hit by hundreds of rounds due to the rate of fire.
@@Blazo_Djurovic I've got to assume that a single armour piercing 30mm round travelling 1000m/s would go through both sides of a WWII alumium fuselage like a nail through a sheet of tin, i.e. a nast puncture, but not carrying any metal away. I came into this video expecting that the P-47 would catch the bulk of a 1-second burst and just disintegrate like an A6M getting hit by 40mm Bofors.
If the Germans had A10’s there would be a 40 ft statue of Hans Ulrich Rudel in Red Square. Ironically Rudel had input on Republic’s Project.
Now ME262’s has four 30 mm cannon and did turn prop fighters into confetti.
I believe you mean a 40ft statue of Hans Ulrich Rudel in Rudel-Square..
Attack aircraft had overinflated kill counts on both sides. They were never as instrumental as claimed.
According to Pierre Sprey, Rudel's book was required reading for people in the A-X project but I cannot find any evidence he had input on the A-10 project.
The 'Jug' vs The ''Hog.'' 'I' vs 'II.' I like the way this maniac thinks.
Jug vs an ancient Roman amphora
I think there are a bunch more really neat matchups like this that could be done. I wonder what like an F5 would do against a p51 for example?
F5 would dust the p51 with vertical and MER advantage.
A10 is probably a viable fun opponent here only because it's comparable acceleration performance to WW2 props..
@@nekomancer4641 I think there's room to imagine the P-51 doing well. After all, it has rate and radius all over the F-5. That makes the fight not too unlike MiG-17 vs F-4, which did favor the Phantom but not by an amazing amount. I think the jet still holds the advantage, but only if he fights in a special "anti helicopter" style that most people have zero experience in. If you dogfight the Mustang by actually dogfighting it, the Stang could break some hearts.
I was wanting to see the Korean war stuff vs WWII myself. Let's see P-47 vs F-86, you'd think that would be an easy fight, but I assumed the A-10 would wipe the floor with the P-47.
F-5 would wreck a mustang in all situations.
A-10 vs any WW2 fighter is interesting because the A-10's top speed is about 430mph, not much faster than warbirds. Can't just turn on the afterburner and get away like fighter jets.
10:46 when the A-10 hits you with one bullet: 😰
According to real A-10 pilots the warthog is very maneuverable at low altitudes. It was designed this way in the event that enemy fighter aircraft were to get within visual range and engage in a dogfight. Pretty interesting stuff.
If two Thonderbolts go fighting against each other , your eyes will be stuck to the screen until the end
Great video.
"They didn't expect the P-47 to face against 30mm"
BF-109K: Am I a joke to you?
Iirc Bf-109K’s cannon was more like a .22 WMR hollow point in comparison to the A-10’s 5.56 NATO green points.
One’ll dump all its energy into a target and the other’ll fly straight through.
@@joshuahadams Yea, the MK108 was meant to eviscerate thin-skinned bombers while the GAU-8 was for puncturing and deforming tanks.
The reason why is probably that’s a 30 mm cannon rounds or high velocity Armor piercing high explosive Is probably going right through the plane without doing much damage Or it could just be a damage model thing
I wonder if he has the entirely HE belt selected
The A-10 has a mix of API and HEI: Armor Piercing Incendiary and High Explosive Incendiary so there should only be over penetration with the AP rounds.
There are no armor piercing high explosive rounds. It carry high explosive incendiary and armor piercing incendiary. The API are the depleted uranium "darts" and from what I understand they stopped loading them in Middle East about 5 years ago.
If he used combat mix, thats mostly sabot rounds with the occasional HE mixed in. Against unarmoured targets they will just punch through without causing significant damage. No armour, no spalling, minimal damage. The HE I would expect to rip the plane to pieces though.
Idk. At 4:37 it looks like his shots should have obliterated the pilot.
A-10 vs Harrier? Could be an interesting fight
Normally the A10 does not stand a chance as the Harrier is much faster, accelerates better and can use 60 degrees nozzle for hard turns which means the Harrier will win easily in the vertical and horizontal, sustained turns or one circle, it is almost hopeless for the A10 unless you are allowed to shoot head on before the merge.
As for never facing a WW2 fighter... the Embraer Super Tucano is actually somewhat close to the P-47 in terms of overall performance (P-47 is REALLY fast for a prop plane btw). It also carries two good old Browning 50 cals in addition to all it's spicy modern munitions.
The super tucano is a truboprop p51, not a p47
I think a lot of the 30mm might be passing through the P-47 fuselage. This happened during Battleship gun duels. It's called "overpenatration" if I'm not mistaken
Female voice in the cockpit at times tamp 14.28 : "Pull up! Pull up!"
Growling Sidewinder : "Sorry Debbie..." (at least that is what I heard!) 😜
It was Betty, as in bitching Betty. That's what actual pilots call the female voice in the FMS.
The rounds the mk108 30mm cannon the germans used so much were basically like grenades. If you look at the rounds, they resemble the 30mm rounds fired by the apache much more than the 30x 173 API fired by the gau-8. Big huge high explosive chemical payload but at a relatively low velocity. On top of that, they were designed with a delay fuze so they wouldn't detonate on impact but rather delay a few milliseconds before detonating so they would penetrate through an enemy aircraft's skin before detonating inside, thus causing considerably more damage than a round equipped with a point contact fuze, proximity fuse or rounds designed strictly to penetrate rolled homogeneous armor. Often it would only take a few to bring down a heavy bomber or a single hit to remove the wings of fighter sized targets.
This is spot on. Just being a 30mm bore, doesnt make all 30mm equal. The case length matters. Compare the bore of a 7.65 pistol cartridge to a 7.62x39 to s 7.62x54r. All are .30 cal, but massive difference in power. The bullet/shell composition matters as well.
@@lance5041did… did you just call .32 ACP a 7.65?
@@CybetrexsI guess you've never heard of Soviet pistols before?
The a-10's combat mix in dcs kinda just pens straight through stuff. Maybe try straight HE next time?
Not a bad idea
Yeah I think the mix is 5 to 1 DPU penetrator to HEI. I was also thinking maybe the skin of the P-47 was insufficient to fuse the HEI but I don't know if stuff like that is modelled or even if it's realistic. Also I think the P-47 ammo belts is mainly API so removing an a-10's wing with it seems a little unlikely as well.
Possible that it’s the armor piercing shell problem from the last stand of the tin can sailors - the Japanese shells were designed for heavy armor and just punched through the lightly armored ships instead of exploding.
"Pushing the boundaries of decent and sane behavior" would a pretty good channel motto sometimes haha
A high school teacher of mine flew P-47's and had three stories he told. The first was of him upside down over main street in his hometown in Shelby, NC to show off, the second was of him returning to base after an attack mission and he radioed ahead that his engine was running rough. When he got out of his plane he saw one of the cylinders from his engine hanging out. The third was about the trim on his plane being off (I think this was his P-47, he flew several planes.) He asked the crew chief to adjust the trim for the next flight and and it was adjusted the wrong way, making it worse. When he took off his plane barrel rolled on takeoff and almost killed him. The Colonel didn't ask for any discipline for the guy because maintenance had been working 12+ hour days for months with no break.
He had a couple of good stories of him flying a B-57 in Vietnam, but that will have to wait until DCS gets B-57's.
Any time you put a HOG up against anything I'm all in. Please do more like this. Fricking love it.
The Jug was the first plane I played in War Thunder sim battles. Ripped apart a Zero, captured air superiority point, then die to the ground after failed bombing run
How's that even possible without paying? When I played it (ages ago TBH), you had to start out with the early 30s things like a Peashooter and invest hundreds of hours grinding to get the "real" warbirds, let alone the late war ones.
@@CakePrincessCelestia well it took me around 3-4 years to get to the corsair, p51 with 20mm cannons. p38, b25J, hellcat, on and off playing. it is a hard grind
@@bomber6258 It would be less hard if you wouldn't sit in your 1938 thing fighting 1944 material on the other side XD
@@CakePrincessCelestia yep, although it was funny when I killed a bf109 in a head on with a biplane, but not so much trying to climb in my wildcat with bf109s above me.
@@CakePrincessCelestia Ive played 500hrs total (about 350 in Air RB) I have Russia, USA, Germany and Britain up to 4.7-5.0 BR
Oh man, Thunderbolt vs Thunderbolt II, it's my wet dream come true!!!! Thank you GS!!!
Second time I've watched this, and I'm not re-evaluating my life. This is good stuff.
I think there is few high explosive rounds in the belts you were using, and the difference in velocity is enough to where you'll either hit with all the explosive rounds or all the armor piercing rounds which tend to pass through rather cleanly unless they hit something vital. Just an observation I made from trying this before.
I wonder if maybe the DU AP rounds of the Hog just drilled holes through the Jug rather than doing a bunch of damage like HEI rounds. I've always been a bit unimpressed with the GAU-8 in A2A power. It doesn't seem to shatter planes with a single round the way the 30mms in Flankers and Mirages do. Perhaps they're simply over-penetrating.
A10 rounds would go through the plane, while the other rounds explode on the plane
It should also have HEI rounds loaded into the belt, it is a CAS aircraft after all...
@@dade.9948 I'm guessing that even the HEI rounds have a fair bit more armor penetration than those in more A2A focused planes. Perhaps they're just slicing through and the incendiary is never ignited, like when a battleship shoots a fishing boat.
You have to select the purely HE belt to do much against planes...
If you tried it with a DEFA 30mm as on the Mirage, it'd shred the P-47 I bet given that's not an AP round but an air to air one.
In our defence, watching the warthog get chewed by 50 cal was mesmerising. I'm presuming your opponent didn't exactly make a mistake... something like "what about against the 1 circle?" "What about vertical?". I think your opponents are excellent foils and make your videos worth watching.
The P-47's fuselage is so big, the pilot can just run around back there and dodge all your bullets!
Proof that a superior pilot will always out-do superior technology.
You should see him do F 22 vs MB 339 that was a perfect example
bit too strong statement there ... replace the Hog with F-22 and we know how that will turn out ...
I've had unreliable damage from anti-tank weapons before. Vikhrs can also do practically no damage if they fly right into the cockpit of a fighter. I think it is the fact that the Gau-8 and Vikhr missiles are supposed to deal damage to targets with hitpoints that DCS doesn't understand exactly how they should work on targets with a complex damage model. They work, but are much less effective.
Now he can prove that “It’s not the plane, it’s the pilot”
I love these dogfights between conventional and jet engines. Subscribed!
According to the lore of this channel, the P-47 should be able to dispatch the Frogfoot easily then, lol.
SU-25 is faster but even less armored than A-10 so it probably won't make much difference in the end (given the same pilots and tactics)
The amount of rounds the p-47 took, 10 tanks would have melted completely with that. Crazy damage modelling. Fair enough, who would have thought we could see a-10 behind it anyways.
I actually wonder if the damage modeling is partially correct - 30mm rounds probably don’t even “feel” impact through a mostly non-metallic plane. Although if they hit anything structural or involved in flight control surfaces or power plant then the opponent is instantly done.
@@baomao7243 P47 is all aluminum.
@@PandaMan-xy1he Didn’t realize that, Thanks for correcting me.
@@baomao7243 You're welcome. I hope you didn't take it as an insult, as so many do.
@@PandaMan-xy1he No insult taken. Quite the contrary. I want to be smarter today than yesterday. Thank you again for the correction. 👍
Man. The jug sure was a beast back in its day. Beautiful plane, too.
You’ve pretty much sold me in getting both of these planes. Awesome fights!!!
The moral of the story: just don’t fight GS in anything 🤣
The P47 was very well armored all around. So yes i can imagine it would take a boat load of rounds to take it down. There are Germans who can attest to this, flying home with empty gun barrels and not believing they wasted all that ammo on one P47 Thunderbolt.
It was actually due to how it's airframe was, the P-47 doesn't have that much in the way of armor.
@@Battleship009 In critical areas the 47 had some pretty heavy plating. Nothing a GAU-8 couldn't obliterate but enough to keep the bird and pilot in working condition against the resistance of the day. There's a reason its nickname is Juggernaut.
@@jakemauger8377 Actually the P-47 only had armor in front and behind the cockpit, and the P-47 got the nickname jug because it looks like a milk jug of the time when tilted on its nose.
That is quite interesting seeing mismatches like that. More of these would be good. Especially P51 or P47 vs ME262
This is one of the most entertaining videos you've done. Very cool.
I was expectig the Thunderbolt to rip apart the Thunderbolt... Oh wait, that's not right, the 30mm to rip apart the P47. That one seems to have an easier time destroying the A10, even though it's designed to withstand 12.7mm rounds.
If you want to see how the P47 fares against the MiG15, check my channel.
Yep, I was also expecting a remake of "F-5 vs Mirage 2000" at first, but the P-47 showed really up to its reputation here. Damage dealer AND damage sustainer. No wonder this old legend is still my favorite warbird.
@@razorback20 Yup, sure is. It's my favourite as well.
"withstand" is the key word. The P-47 put hundreds of rounds into it in multiple passes. Resistant to bullets doesn't mean bullet proof, and only a few pieces near the cockpit have "armor". The rest is just redundant (two engines, two landing gear hydraulic systems, etc) But, if you have two engines and BOTH are taken out... still gonna drop. The principle of the A-10 wasn't to hang around and absorb damage, it was to get out of the danger zone and land if shot. Going back for 6 helpings of .50 cal fire was not planned for ;-)
@@jimrussell4062 Very well said! Hey, which one would you fly, if given the chance, in their respective theaters of ops? 1944 for the P47 or 1980s for the A10?
A really interesting matchup that shows how significant pilot skill is. Great decision making making.
I remember reading a book many years ago about the P47, I think it may had mentioned the pilots "Bud" Robertson and Gerard Butler. What stuck in my mind after reading was of how much the P47 could take in punishment from enemy fire. In one chapter it read that it was in dog fight with a German fighter but his guns jammed. The German kept shooting him until he ran out of rounds. Seeing the P47 still air worthy the German pilot pulled next to him and saluted then flew away.
At the Battle of Samar the armor piercing shells from Japanese cruisers went straight through US destroyers without detonating due to a lack of resistance from the destroyers thin armor. I feel like the damage modeling on the P-47 was unintentionally giving you the same affect.
Just had to watch the whole thing! :) Thanks GS
Thanks for watching Ken.
Hey, I just noticed you released this on my sisters birthday. This video is her second most memorable birthday present.
13:17 Yes, some german WW2 aircrafts had 30mm canons. Some models of Bf109 for example had one in the nose. Many of the Fw190 also had two 30mm canon, and late in the war, the Me262 also had them (4 of them).
7:01 They do have the Hs-129, which is a dedicated attacker, armed with 30 mil autocannons or, more famously known, a 75mm anti-tank cannon. The durability of the aircraft is very good at the time, could be compared to P-47s. But the problem is the engines. Due to shortages, they use a weaker and much more flammable engine than they intended to, which causes very low climb rates and catching fires after a few engine hits from MG fire. They could be considered the A-10's true grandfather.
This is the kind of “every now and then I like to do crazy stuff” I like!
The P-47 was one of the toughest planes during WWII and no P-47 was ever shot down in air-to-air combat, during that time. That's how tough it was. With it's guns, made it the A-10 of it's day. That's what made this head to head great!
I've been asking for this for months thank you
Re: the damage the P-47 was absorbing. I remember a documentary where a Thunderbolt got caught out by a 109, and the 109 slotted in 6 o'clock level and drained its guns on the Thunderbolt. When the jug kept on flying, the 109 pilot came up abreast, looked over in amazement, wagged his wings in salute and peeled off for home.
I got a kick out of watching this. I’ve never played the sim but I flew Hogs for 10 years and deployed to Kuwait, Iraq and Afghanistan. Obviously air to air was a small percentage of our training vs CAS but the A-10 has some tricks up it’s sleeve in a knife fight at low altitude. We did DACT against vipers and they were always surprised at our initial turn at the merge. Hog v Hog fights from a neutral setup usually ended up with us both just above the floor (10k AGL) trying to find a rate advantage. Pilots always wanted one of the air show jets for the BFM sorties because they had some hard points removed and the engines were trimmed to run a touch hotter. It definitely made a difference. In combat we flew with either all HEI or a mix of that and AP; I’m betting a single HEI hit is a done deal but maybe not for the Jug.
GS,
I'm learning a lot. You are a good teacher. Love the bogey dope.
If you want to know why the P-47 held together so well in the tail section, as in, not torn into two.
You have to remember. That's not empty space in there-a _MASSIVE_ Turbo charger that Fat Albert could crawl through exists in the plane and some of the flight manuals for some P-47 models list the turbocharger as a means of "protection" for the pilot. Not only that, the plane is braced so well for high-speeds and loads that the wings would survive multiple direct 20 and 40mm shells.
A pilot was also able to nurse his plane back to base after hitting a chimney with his wing at 300 mph.
Thank you. That was fun! In an air to gnd role the A-10 would have stopped Heinz Guderian in his tracks, the invasion of France and Dunkirk would have never happened, and long before Operation Barbarossa the Nazis would have likely lost, but if not the A-10 would have stopped that in its tracks too. I guess the breakout from Normandy would have been cake too, as "the sack" the whole southern German army was put in and bombed nearly to extinction would have been an actual extinction. Panzers, Tigers, whatevers would have been turned into Swiss Cheese.
At first I thought over penetration of shells. Then I see GS walk shells from one end of the Jug to the other “ah, plot armor”.
A-10: * fires rounds that are designed to blow up tanks and armored ground vehicles and basically everything else *
game developer when creating the P-47 damage model: *No disintegrations!*
This is what I suggested in a much newer video, each round have the pilots swap planes to allow them both to try to down each other with the other planes!
I do enjoy the analytic nature of these videos. I am not a gamer so please no offense is intended to your opponent but in watching several of these, the P-51 is one of the most informative, it was the pilots skill that determined the victory. Please keep up the great work.
I like the weird dogfights like this, definitely nice to change it up every now and then
this fight also definitely shows the quote from top gun maverick, "it's not the plane, it's the pilot"
Great vid, it was a lot of fun to watch.
It'd be fun to see a P-38 Lighting vs an F-35 Lightning II.
Maybe I'm really a bit crazy but I like to watch these right before bedtime for relaxation purposes.
I liked the plane switching. Hope to see it more in other videos!
Yes!! More of these types of video's. Only if you have the time or will too. Besides that, great content my guy!!
i love the slo-mo hit breakdowns