explaining Warhammer: The Old World made me sound like an insane idiot
Вставка
- Опубліковано 29 чер 2024
- Thanks to Dungeons & Lasers: Caves for sponsoring today's video, check it out here: gamefound.com/en/projects/arc...
How do you explain why the number of armies in the books for Warhammer: The Old World doesn't match the number available on the website? Why do some of them basically not exist as models for sale at all? Why are some heavily updated and others not updated but still only available under a different heading?
Grab your Warhammer 40,000, Age of Sigmar and tabletop gear right here:
UK & Europe - elementgames.co.uk/warhammer?...
US- www.nobleknight.com/Publisher...
Stuff what I use:
Elegoo Mars 2 Pro: amzn.to/3bS8rsr
Creality LD-002H: amzn.to/3wrowPv
Creality Ender3: amzn.to/3mXd2jo
Elegoo Mercury Wash & Cure Station: amzn.to/3F1WZqG
Artis Opus Brushes: elementgames.co.uk/paints-hob...
- Patreon: / kiriothtv
- Become a member of the channel: / @kirioth
- Twitter: / kirioth
- Twitch: / kirioth
- UA-cam: / kiriothtv
#warhammer #warhammer40000 #warhammer40k #gamesworkshop - Ігри
Thanks to Dungeons & Lasers: Caves for sponsoring today's video, check it out here: gamefound.com/en/projects/archon-studio/caves?refcode=DdD2UWW9zU6x55o57ZQNZA
fun thing about paints.... when you go to buy a paint on the websight they dont have a picture of the actual paint or any way to tell what the paint actually looks like, and in most cases the place holder swatch doesnt match the paint at all. (look at gryphhound orange
I'm a web developer and everything about the "new" GW website screams amateur - its a template driven hack-job with very little thought put into design usability. I wouldn't be surprised someone from senior management brought in their teenage nephew as an "expert consultant" for this work.
You missed the bit where they told us they were doing a brand new range of kislev.
And Cathay too.
hehe we wish
They said later that therw werent any pñans to do so.
"in an insane world, a sane man must appear insane" - golic, alien3
The real question here is what else could anyone expect except for Games Workshop to handle what should be an absolute slam dunk in the single most esoteric and inconceivable way possible, utilising the resources of one of the largest and most successful English companies in the physically least helpful way to everyone involved
Largest? If they were US based they aren't even top 3,000 based on revenue. They aren't that big of a company when compared with real multinationals.
The largest UK company has revenues about 600 times larger than GW.
@@David-kd4qr but they arent a US company now are they
"Most everything moved to Age of Sigmar..." Me crying in Dogs of War.
Same 😢
Kirioth is one of my favorite rambling madmen
To be faaaaaaaaair,
given that GW was already barely capable of keeping stuff properly in stock BEFORE Old World (I needed A YEAR to actually get Karskin because they kept being sold out every time), and that GW needed like.......3 MONTHS to get the bretonnian and tomb King stuff stocked sufficiently to actually fullfill everyones pre-orders and keep it stocked on the site for longer than a day for people to actually buy, Im pretty sure their Factory would have fallen into a Warprift if they actually tried to release all Main Armies at once.
GWs production is PAINFULLY incapable of keeping up with the actual demand people have of their stuff.
Honestly GW owes Highland Miniatures a lot for making their game actually playable at an affordable level. Old world prices are nuts, and half the stuff isn't even available outside of 3d printing anyways.
Highland and One page rules, Last sword, Lost kingdom !
Avatars of war do good old world ranges.
Mantic Games, Warlord Games, Fireforge Games, North Star Military Figures, Wargames Atlantic...
Do let Ramon know that. Dude deserves the praise.
What????
As a beasts of chaos collector, a small part me of is happy to see them in two settings, than the larger, rational, smarter part of me realizes they will just be forgotten twice as much, they didn't even get 3rd edition warscroll cards.
Beasts of who?
They probably won't be an army in AOS in 4.0
@@MrSJPowell it's the faction name for beastmen in Aos
@@cloraformsgood5340yeah they will, FEC was in the same boat until 3rd edition.
@@cloraformsgood5340 how does it feel being so right
To me the answer seems pretty obvious, although it also probably sounds conspiracy-ish: The Old World's popularity was uncertain and so they created a release schedule that hedged against the risk, and I think it speaks volumes that they recently said Kislev and Cathay aren't in their plans when they very clearly indicated they were with the early announcements. I think they're trying to still determine if there's a market for the game before they commit to heavily to anything other than a slow rollout of old stuff.
Yeah this would be one of the most logical reasons imo.
Judging the first buy in of a newly launched and heavily hyped up game isn't the key indicator for the longevity of any game as I see it. That's just the initial reaction which can at times be misleading.
Lifetime sales or at least sales over time is the telling number that influences further investment and trust in a product.
As someone that is a bit in Warhammer I still don't get why they release only 2 armies for the (re)-launch of fantasy when most of it is just releasing old models.
Given the stock issues they are having with all their games, I'd say they hadn't the capacity to produce more than 2 launch armies
They are barely capable of producing enough of those two armies to have it in stock for longer than 5 minutes at a time to begin with, if they'd actually released all main armies at once Im pretty sure the warehouse would have exploded.
Those old kits are made with older methods of casting. Either retooling is needed for new machines or production has to be done at the scale they did things 20 years ago as a much smaller market
Fun vid Kirioth.
There is some rumour and speculation about it being internal GW revenue tracking politics that caused the false separation of Old world from the AOS model range.
Backed up by some of the subtext in the descriptions in Warcom articles, especially regarding the Legend factions.
Essentially, if someone buys a box of chaos chosen, who gets to count the revenue, Old world or aoS?
That's a reason why some really old orcs are back instead of using the newer AOS sculpts. This is the same for all the factions, at least in the art shown so far. All the models are the old fantasy ones, no new AOS sculpts to be seen.
To be fair, it makes sense to bring back the old Orc models, because they don't have direct equivalents in AoS. All the old "Vanilla Orcs & Goblins" models got canned sometime in 2nd edition. You can't play them anymore in Age of Sigmar. If you want to play Orcs, you need to play either Elite Heavy Metal Orcs, Caveman Orcs, or Scrawny Swamp Orcs. If you want to play "Just Orcs", you're out of luck.
For a game meant to cater to nostalgia, it makes sense that the Old World would bring all the old Orcs & Goblins models back. The Nostalgia army wouldn't function without them. Any more than you could get away with bringing back Tomb Kings, but insisting players use Ossiarch Bonereapers models to run them. "They're basically the same thing, right?"
I've heard this, but from a GW store manager, one who generally knows not to feed you bullshit, so take it with a bit more belief that it's true.
So Old World Models get counted as Specialist games department sales, AOS as main studio games sales, so they tried to avoid armies where you could easily port AOS models to Old World, except Chaos factions, as they are kinda necessary.
They said it was in order to not confuse people with AOS... so they made a multi-millions $ website that is S....T, so they can confuse everyone everytime ! Btw I have an account and each time I log in it erase my cart. Then I reput stuff in the cart then he ask me to login again, then erase my cart again ... So no more GW direct shopping for me, ever.
I don't think they did say that, that's fan supposition, one of the only major problems with ToW is the extreme mixed messages. Many units/models have base size guidance (Literally in their army list entry) specifically tailored to using either a classic model or an AoS one, Beastlords, Chaos Lord on Daemonic Mount, Giants to name a few (the upcoming Arcane Journal even allows you to use Mega Gargants) Yet on the other hand for example their was the frankly bizarre handwaving about how Dark Elves have 'no place in the story we're trying to tell', Trolls mandating that they are on 40mm which are too small for Troggoths and Lord Kroak featuring EXTERMELY prominently in the Rulebook lore (and Malerion to a lesser extent) to name a few. Then there's external more tangential stuff like how many (but not all) of the recent AoS units have been coming with full command.
Even sketchy 3rd party websites keep stuff in my cart if I leave and come back weeks later.
"Old World's a rank and flank wargame set in a fantasy world that's a satire of medieval earth. It's a revival of an old game. Its old miniatures are still useable if old players have them, but it just came out so there's only a couple armies out, more will come as time progresses. The GW Website is shite."
It's internal GW turf wars Kirorth. The 'legacy armies' are only that as if they fully allowed them to be a 'official' army' it would pull sales away from AoS.
The only difference between the newer AOS sculpts and old world sculpts; is that AOS models are made wth round bases in mind, whereas old world stuff has to fit in square/rectangle cohorts. So less sticky-outty bits ovr the sides of the bases.
But yes, the rulebased support and availability is baffeling.
The phrase is “This is fucking stupid”. Perhaps, “Whoever made this decision should be fired after a fight in the car park”.
It's like trying to explain Religion to a toddler, every statement is met with 'why?'. Actually explaining Religion may be easier than explaining GW Marketing.
Personally I’ve fallen out of love with 40k and never liked AOS. I started collecting old world stuff about 2 years ago and fell in love with the setting, lore, models and books! You’re pretty much the only 40k youtuber I watch now and that’s just because well frankly I’d watch you talk about socks 😂 keep up the good work dude!
Talking about GW not being able to manage a website properly, the Dark Eldar/Drukari Wyches are missing on the International/Rest of the World portal, they're on every other region just not that one...AND IT'S BEEN LIKE THIS SINCE THE PREVIOUS WEBSITE!!!
I'm very passionate about the Old World and I'm in the process of building multiple armies for it, mainly using AoS models. But my god has the launch been infuriating and terribly mismanaged.
It's basically the same release model/schedule as they have for Middle Earth: a few things in stock regularly, but basically just a bunch of splash/limited releases and made-to-order, which does make sense for a tertiary(?) product line. We'll see if the "increased scope" means it'll be more regularly supported with full model ranges or if we'll keep the "better hope you have money for the 10 minutes the units you want are available!" model.
Also, multiple former GW insiders have said that the various studios are basically competing with each other for resources, bonuses, pay, etc., so having models that work for multiple systems are a no-go since there's no way to definitely say which studio was "responsible" for the sales. Which is daft.
It's absolutely daft, but it also tracks with the broader theme of what my GF (former employee of a 3rd party hobby store that also sold GW products) calls "GW being ran like a 2004 company in 2024". Constant supply issues and delivery delays plus what feels like no attempts to adapt to post-Brexit conditions (we're based in EU), perpetual stock shortage on pre-orders, codex turnaround getting so fast that most people interested in playing the game just download pirated scans instead, overreliance on FOMO and the plague of scalpers... When I mentioned the rumors about GW's teams competing against one another, she just shrugged and said "a normal company would just send in someone with a baseball bat to straighten things up, but it's GW we're talking about, they are not normal".
Please Middle Earth being a red-headed stepchild that game kept Workshop alive for a while
Being a demons player is madness. Can buy the minis for every system but they aren't going to be supported for old worlds... ok I guess
Yet, I imagine they will in time. Roll out the 9 factions, then the remaining.
@rupertjones5197 demons were part of the legend factions not going to get updates.
@@justinjaramillo8062 give it time and I think they will, they don’t wanna put pressure on themselves even more, we know they can’t handle it, ordering, number of sets made etc. give it time and if old world sells and keeps the hype up be sooner
I mean they really easily could have had the Beastmen at launch, too. Or soon after. I think the worst bit is just how scarce it all is even with the reduced range.
Something I’ve just realised that is so stupid is how they don’t just have one codex or rule book listing under each faction and have multiple drop downs to select the language etc
I agree with you, it is quite insane that they don't have the old models that are still in sale for Age og Sigmar also available for The Old World for the factions in the rulebooks. Then they can update the update the different factions when they get to the stage where they are ready to release the "official Old World" minis.
In the best way possible, having only heard Kirioth on AdRic, did not realise how much of a unit he was. Man built like a brick shit house.
They should've listed all the old Fantasy models that are currently in use by AoS into the Old World tab. Like the whole beastmen range is still 8th edition fantasy save for the new wargor and even that could be used.
Love the beard Kirioth! I hope you have been well these past few months.
This feels like somewhere between the Pepe Silvia bit from Always Sunny and the battle of wits from Princess Bride, and I am ALL here for it.
The weirdest thing about the whole thing about The Old World is that the people who still have their old WHFB armies and didn't burn them in protest of AoS (Yes, that happened, at least one person did that and you can find pictures of it) and didn't sell it, are going to still just play with the old WHFB rules or the community versions of said rules with balance changes and some other minor fixes, so what is the point of TOW? I thought I knew who this would be for, it'd be for the people who missed out on WHFB, but don't want to pay out the ass for old models on Ebay. Logistics is hard and all but GW could have at least made this whole thing a bit less impenetrable if you aren't already invested.
Johnathan Keeble's narrations of the Gotrek & Felix novels got me invested in Fantasy's setting something rotten the past few years, and I had Ogres, Skaven and Chaos Warriors before The End Times happened - it hurts that my rats and chonky bois aren't coming to The Old World, but the Dwarves featured in G&F have me invested in starting a Dwarf Holds army, I just want a ton of Slayers to go suicide themselves into every monster they can waddle into melee combat with.
Were you going to review the White Scars Stormseer Consul?
its kinda similar to HH. They want to separate the system for some reason overthought it makes sense monetarily
Over half the stuff for AoS vampires are either the same models are new scuplts for the same units. Vampire rules will not be updated.
Is an interview/collab with Mira Manga still in the works? :)
The rules for the other armies are complete, functional and freely available. It's almost like they didn't want to hit the ground running....
The ranges are relatively complete with a few notable exceptions.
Regarding bases: leave them on circles, just put them on 'correct' movement trays.
Why? Because that is the Games Workshop business model. Release a thing, and string along the customer base.
It is probably the reason why there has been a 3rd ed AoS announced, but the Skaven and Beastmen are all but untouched since the launch of 1st ed.
i was excited for the old world originally but when i learned that its not even the original setting i immediately jumped off, i want the man himself karl franz, balthazar gelt, KROQ GAR and Nakai, i dont want a new setting i want what i loved back
someone please draw up a table between Rule availability (Fully supported, First rule only, no rule at all) VS model availability (Old World release, all available in AOS, Partially available on AOS, not available for purchase)
I had a High elf Lord on Dragon way back in 2008 and it is painted but just sitting in my cabinet. I always wonder if I can use it in some way...
I've just started a gitz army, so old world will have to wait. I also have a kings of war army waiting on the wings, so god knows when I will get round to it. However the wood elf forest dragon will be bought immediately on release.
GW really does need to increase its production to match its ambition, because one is sorely outpacing the other. Would of really preferred a new release of the Old world with more than just 2 armies and drip feed armies on a insanely bad website.
I can't navigate that website at all. I hate that site so hard.
Quick question. The armies in the AoS range that you can buy, change the bases and use in Old World. Can you use all of the models in the AoS range, including the new models, or can you only use the models from that range that were in Old World? In other words, do new AoS models have Old World rules?
It depends. Refreshed models (e.g. Slann Starmaster) could be used in TOW with the right base size (although Lizardmen are a legacy army), but brand new models e.g. Ushoran and Krethusa the Croneseer don't have an analogue in TOW. You might be able to use them as a suitable proxy in some cases, though.
@@MortalAgenda Thanks.
oh is that why there is white boxes? i thought they were repackaged models :o like the previous box was damaged before a return.
I didn't get into 40k for years cause fantasy was always the setting i liked best, and it blew up before i could get more than a couple of units. Im lucky that bretonnia was always my faction of choice cause this would annoy me to no end otherwise
Honestly, it feels like they chose Bretonnia and TK specifically because they had a lot of leftover stuff from back when they killed off Fantasy, while also having a "good" faction and an "evil" faction (so to speak, let's face it, Tomb Kings aren't really evil, and nobody likes the French).
Always be dunkin on the website.
The short answer is that GW fucked it up
Well when you say it like that we sound mental
Don't mention the Skaven!
Sometimes I feel like Kirioth is my Spirit Animal
My theory is that GW is basing a lot of their old world decisions on old sales numbers when certain factions were selling their best and how each faction compared to each other in terms of potential profit
are you gona play old world? what army if so?
Cool cross necklace
This is an upper management problem. Corpos need to get their 💩 together.
3:52 Wait! I always thought you were Kirioth?
;)
So, the reason for why AOS models aren't being given rules for the old world is because AOS is a GW project and the old world is a FW (specialist games) project. There is a stand off between the two. Because, if AOS models get sold for use in old world that means that the FW P&L bottom line will lose out to the GW P&L bottom line and ne'er the twain shall meet.
It's literally as ridiculous as that. Literally, internal company politics.
The asnwer is simple. Old world is not for you. It's for old blokes who colltected fantasy battles back in the day and already have all the models they need.
I can give you part of the answer. There are two different stuidios and they don't want the other profiting off each other as stupid as that sounds
The madness is they are selling 30 year old models again at a mark up
SPOILERS: watch for the AOS figures getting re-vamped to see what’s coming up in the old world….
Also, all the non-supported armies are ‘bad guy’ armies - coincidence?
Skaven getting a re-vamp soon in AOS - expect the rats to come [Not Soon] to Old world.
Whilst your ramble is awesome, is the easy answer not just boring old logistics? Releasing 9 full armies on Day 1, 2 big army books, 9 journals, and what (total daft guess incoming) 200+ different units? Even for a big company like GW that seems like a push. The issue for me is the lack of road map, at least if we had a page up on the site saying Dwarves Q1 2024, Wood Elves Q2 2024 etc people would at least know when they could get said armies.......
Mad as a bag of frogs but yes
This video was certainly something xD
And to make it worse, some of the fantasy models like the Savage Orc Boyz don’t really have rules because their kit is being used in AoS
Have to wait to their no longer in aos.
You know you can just use aos models and either rebase or get adapter trays...
Regarding the main point you're making about products not being available and why some things are not going to be fully supported. Fundamentally you need to understand the inner workings of the SDS and the comparison of this studio to the other studios in GW.
My conspiracy theory is that the old world helps drive AoS due to ugly ass minis they re-released. Seriously. Compare the skeletons to modern AoS skeletons.
it is very dumb. alot of the issues u explained are fixed by just packaging some AOS kits with square bases in addition
It does seem like the old world is the tightest gate kept game of any GW's living games. But it will change over time. Hopefully even get some new models for 2nd edition if they do one.
Still not on the list XD this has got to be a running joke at this point lmao!
It sounds like GW is trying to give you that old school elitest feel whenever you tried to start in fantasy. Where the current players didn't want you to show up with the few models you painted because you don't have 6K points back home.
I feel sorry for the poor souls spilling money into the models that are old enough to drink and probably witness the Vietnam War.
Also - Tinfoil hat time- I think GW kind of half-wanted the old world to fail. They did Not put many eggs in their basket after the years-long run up to this. With many built-in abandon points.
Games Workshop very much seems to be a company that desperately wants to fail, and keeps doing everything in their power to go bankrupt, but we keep giving them all our monies regardless
So in conclusion, If I make an arse of trying to explain something that I even don't fully understand, it will sound like the ramblings of a mad man. Gotcha.
I don’t think GW execs like people having 1 army that can be used in multiple games (demons aside). Doesn’t explain why we cant get other armies for Old World. Having never gotten the chance to play as I got into warhammer from the games I would love to get some High elves to play.
I’ve said it elsewhere and I’ll say it here warhammer fantasy died because the last edition was just bad. Some armies were never going to win and when orcs start taking artillery lines you’ve made a mistake. And the first run of new plastics looked super cartoonish. Yes a new hydra is nice but as a player I assume it would be better than the old one. Maybe other players had a different experience, but that’s what my play group found.
Luckily GW would never do anything as ridiculous as write a bizarre series of stories and campaigns explaining how the world blew up thus forcing them to recreate the setting at a different point of time to explain away their own mistakes. 😅
"GW is trying to reboot a dead game that wasn't selling in its twilight years, and they're doing this because a bunch of grognards on the internet cried about it for years- and none of them are buying new models because they've got their stuff already- or they didn't even actually play it, they won't play it, and they're jumping on the bandwagon. This was a decision made by a major billion-dollar corporation."
"explaining Warhammer: The Old World made me sound like an insane idiot" well if you explain anything like you're insane then yes what you are explaining will sound insane.
GW are weird, they keep making descions that clearly should not make money, than when they deal with sell out products that goes like butter they suddenly get a aversion to money... example phobos armour vs old world....old world sells out like cup cakes, barely any marketing and a next to constant shafting in order to give AoS stuff.... phobos marines, almost universally disliked, bad models who only where good like onces ever, everyone has kitbashed reavers but i think i am one of few that owns them....they still are trying to make people buy phobos marines regardless how much of a money sink that product must be by now.
It is profoundly dumb, yes. It is profoundly dumb that GW have launched this entire game, yet didn't take the time or effort to create listings for the same products they already sell, just under the Old World.
If you wanted to, say, make a Wood Elves army, you can't just look under the Old World and find listings for all the Wood Elves kits you'd want to buy for the Wood Elves army. You, the hypothetical new player, need to know to go to the Age of Sigmar tab, the Order tab, and then BOTH the Cities of Sigmar tab AND the Sylvaneth tab. Neither name really hinting to the uninitiated that they have anything to do with Wood Elves. You would have to know what the units in the Wood Elves army list in Old World are called in Age of Sigmar (because they all have different names). You have to know that most of Cities of Sigmar's units are unusable for Wood Elves (and be able to tell the difference, since half of those models are elves), AND you have to know that MOST of the Sylvaneth range is unusable because they're new kits.
AND you have to know that buying those AoS kits won't give you access to the square bases (much less movement trays) needed to run them in Old World, so you have to buy them separately. AND you need to know, possibly before you've ever touched the army book, which units go on what size bases.
Imagine if, instead, you (hypothetical uninitiated player looking to start a Wood Elves army) could just look under the Old World tab, see that it lists Wood Elves as a faction. And when you clicked it, it just listed all the products you could buy that pertained to Wood Elves. Under the names they would be called in Old World. (GW already has separate listings for character models that could be built from larger kits, so we know GW has no trouble making redundant listings for the sake of making finding them easier). So you could just buy them. Maybe the listing will be a bundle, adding both the kit itself and an extra load of square bases, since the kit itself is just the AoS kit relisted.
Imagine if GW made it easy for people to buy into the game the company spent so much time, effort, and money creating. Imagine if GW made it easy for people to give them money.
Lets be honest it's just crap on GW's part and tbh I'm not actually convinced they didn't have a change of heart half way through production and decided they didn't actually want it to succeed as a competitor to Age of Sigmar. At the very least they should have a small army box for all the major factions out by now.
17 minutes of rambling nonsense. What was rhe pont of the video?
all i got out of this ramble was the dude rambling on has a rad mohawk otherwise pointless
TOW is absolutely a game made for ONLY the former WHFB players, and seems very Clique-y in that regard.
"YOU can use your old models and army - but YOU cant! not supported! neener neener!"
absolute highschool level of nonsense coming from TOW, they REALLY dont want new players coming in do they....
Dont blame ToW players for GW's bizarre decisions. The community has almost unilaterally agreed to ignore the declaration from GW that unsupported armies are not tournament legal. People want ToW to succeed; we have no desire to alienate half of the prospective players.
I’ve never had an issue with the Warhammer store, I’m seriously starting to think y’all are the problem
Its a cluster truck. Mandatory end times in not canon comment.