Crush Sleeve VS Solid Pinion Spacer - Lets Talk Pinion Bearing Preload!
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- Опубліковано 8 вер 2024
- Crush Sleeve or Solid Pinion Spacer ??
- Let's Talk Pinion Preload! -
Watch as our tech goes over differences between a Crush Sleeve & Solid Pinion Spacer - and why Solid Pinion Spacers are highly beneficial!
www.Nitro-Gear.com
Just saying. If you accidentally crush your crush bearing too small just throw in a shim and your back in action.
Dude, why didn't I think about that.
Gettin' schooled up on all things differential related. Awesome work! Appreciate the explanation for us new to the scene.
I'm preparing for a rebuild of my semi float rear on my 1988 Land Cruiser. Plan on running a solid spacer in lieu of the crush sleeve, so I'm glad I came across this video. Great tech.
Right on! Good way to go.
Good video. Finally someone who gets straight to the point and explains it . I'm in the process of replacing the pinion seal in my 57 Plymouth differential. And it seems no one has a clue when I ask questions. Work shop manual says it has a sleeve and shims. What is the correct tourqe setting for pinion flange nut? Work shop manual says 180--200 ft lbs
On the ASE renewal app one of the questions for the A3 asks how to increase preload after measuring insufficient rotating torque. This video is a great resource on the exact topic.
Never had a problem using crush collars before. Can see these being useful if your doing quick ring&pinion swaps keeping each shim separate if using the same axle housing.
One benefit I’ve found with crush collars is if you have a axle that starts making noise due to mileage or wear a 1/8 turn of the pinion nut usually makes the noise go away.
Oh sure dont worry about lash or nothing on the gears just giver a little squeeze
@@lucylemen2145 lol I guess you don’t realize that bearings wear and will cause the lash to loosen up a bit causing noise.
By tightening the nut for the crush collar just a tiny bit it’s enough to bring the pinion backlash back into spec.
Don’t mean to be rude but I don’t think you thought it thru before posting just decided to critique instead with ignorance guiding you.
All good though 👍
@@South_0f_Heaven_ pinion nut torque isnt what gives you your backlash thats dictated by lateral placement of the ring gear. if a bearing is worn the fix is replacement, a retorque is just temporary the damage has been done.
@@motoboggin2619 no kidding that’s what the shims are for, set up many a rear end and have quite a collection of shims from all the years.
The point of the crush collar is to set the preload on the pinion bearings. And when they wear you get more backlash which you can mitigate by tightening the crush collar as I described.
Simple old trick that I chose to share. Never asked for a know it all to explain what I already knew 35 years ago.
Great job explaining the difference. Awesome info to know and looks like a great product.
Pinion bearing pre-load while using a Nitro solid spacer (Dana 35).
I installed mine.
Answer update.
The Nitro spacer is Awesome. It’s the only way to go folks.
If you have any problems, call their tech service, they are a huge help.
Feel free to email tech questions to Info@Nitro-Gear.com
Forgot to mention that crush sleeve generally requires really long breaker bar and a way to rig up something to keep the pinion from turning like something bolt to the yoke has a long angle iron steel his the floor if your using jack stands keep it from turning.
Didn't know there was an option anywhere. (Shim method) I would always go this way. Definitely the best way to go.
Nice video. I just installed 5.38 years on my Suzuki samurai. I installed the solid Pinion spacer. Watching this is a relief I Installed a better part. Being able to change out seals with out a new sleeve in my opinion is better. Thank you.
If nothing else, it gives peace of mind. :) Worth the little bit of extra money!
It is nice knowing you don't have to completely redo the setup process just to swap out a pinion seal that leaking. Saves lots of time !
Great information thank you so much for explaining that. 👍🏻
Glad it was helpful!
Thank You Sir.
If just changing leaking pinion shaft seal just tighten it up. If it takes 200 lbs to crush it, you can tighten to 100 which is tight on the old parts. I have changed hundreds of seals and tightened the nut as tight as I could with regular 1/2 inch rachet. I don't know how you can accidently torque to 200 lbs to crush it further. If any rear end went out, I was never told about it. Complete disassembly and new bearings and such needs new sleeve. Just replacing the seal, just tighten the nut, you don't need a torque wrench.
lot of mechanic don't know the reason to have crush sleeve. All taper bearing must have preload. Pinion bearing also must have at least preload of 25 inch pounds resistance when you rotate without the ring gear attached, with new bearing/used bearing is around 15 inch pounds. That reading can varies by model.
wrong, taper wheel bearings do not use crush sleeves
I've seen front wheel hub with 2 opposite taper bearing don't use sleeve. The bearing preload depend on how tight you fasten the nut.
Well I get the idea, but how do you set the thickness. I heard that too much is not good and little isn't either. How do we actually set the spacer ? I need this info now but can't find it anywhere. So I'm going to set it to a same thickness as the old crush sleeve was. I mean I only changed the bearings, did not touch the gears. Bearings are all same size, made on a machine, no variations in there. (at least not a significant amount) I'm also contemplating of reusing the old crush sleeve. It worked before so it should work now, right ? Again not changing gears, etc. Gears are perfect, looked at the gears and tooths and they are very close to oem spec. No sharp edges, no odd wear pattern. This indicates that the gears were aligned perfectly. My pinion bearing failed and made so much noise, it was unbearable, hence the reason I needed to change them. But then again thinking it over the pinion bearing might have failed because it had too much pressure on it. Meaning the crush sleeve was too thin and the bearing cones made the imprint on the cup. Damn, this is really hard and there is no real reference point to set it correctly. The new crush sleeve isn't really an option for me. It requires 300ft/lb pressure to crush it and I can't do it on my drive way. Truck is not on a lift but on a jacks. There is absolutely no way I could do 300 ft/lb on my back in a weird angle under the car. Also my torque wrench only goes to 200 ft/lb anyway. 300 is a lot of strength. My 18V electric impact wrench can do 458 ft/lb but that is too much, so I have no way of measuring the 300 ft/lb
In a nutshell - here it is:
each axle has a preload spec, (meaning Ford, Chevy, whatever) with that said I am posting a chart so you can look up yours.
After you find the correct preload torque on the chart - you a inch lb torque or dial indicator. Begin to add
shims to the main eliminator sleeve. Turn the torque wrench or indicator, if it is too loose, take
out a shim and do this until you reach proper torque spec.
www.crawlpedia.com/ring_pinion_setup.htm
Use a floor jack to push up against the rachet handle.
This guy knows what he talking about he got same gloves as me
hahahahaha
I’m not sure if I’m doing something wrong but I have a ford 8.8 and I’m using 2 foot long breaker bars trying to tighten the nut to crush the pinion sleeve however the pinion has too much play back and forth and I can’t tighten it any further.
I always use the solid one instead of the crush sleeve.
Can provide a link to crush sleeve eliminator kits for the front and rear of a 2018 F-150 8.8/9.75?
Any chance there is a solid sleeve for a GM 56 -64 8.2" drop out differntial?
So how do you install the solid spacer with the correct amount of preload? Ordered one but not sure what the install procedure is
See other videos. Pre load is to check the bearings are seating well on outside races, not too tight, not too loose. Use torque wrench lightly before checking Pre Load value.
Great vid ,I Bought one too but whats the final torque on it ?
Great video my dude, how do you know what size solid sleeve you need?.. do you measure the crush sleeve?. Also with solid sleeve do you need to set the pinion nut torque to same amount as if you where crushing the sleeve down?
I did my diff around 9 or 10 years ago and my memory is such that I’m struggling to remember, but I believe the talk settings for both are the same.
I ‘can’ remember thinking to myself (at the time) ‘the greatest tool you can have for setting up a diff is the proper workshop manual’, and between that and the instructions that came with the E Locker, even was able to have success!
I don't want to switch to a solid pinion spacer yet, my ford 8.8 still uses the stock crush sleeve to the best of my knowledge.
The pinion seal is leaking, do you think it's OK to just do the "same exact thread count as it was before" trick with the pinion nut, or do you have to install a new crush sleeve and crush to spec?
My is leaking also. I’m counting threads and marking with paint stick. Good luck.
@@JohnDoe-ui2ud use impact gun to take the nut off and remove the yoke and install new seal, Clean the threads and reinstall yoke and tighten the nut to about 75 foot pounds. Don't worry you not going to crush the sleeve.
so what do you torque a yoke nut to with the crush sleeve eliminator?
I could not find a solid spacer for the AAM 11.5" Axle used by Dodge in 2006 and beyond.
Hello! I need help with a crush sleeve installation issue. Do you have an email with which I can contact you for guidance or recommendations?
Sorry for the delay, we don't often check UA-cam comments
Please email us directly, anytime: Info@Nitro-Gear.com
what about the pinions that dont have a spot for a crush sleeve and are purely shim based, (D30) do the shims just go behind the bearing races?
I replace pinion seals all the time without replacing the crush sleeve you just have to be easy with an impact gun when re torquing the yoke nut!
I thought you weren't even supposed to use an impact on bearings because the chatter might damage them.
he's talking bearing and races not seals
Do you have a solid spacer for a Ford Superduty Dana 60?
You can't adjust the preload on the pinion without the ring gear out right? Thx
....Remove drive shaft after marking shaft relation to yoke. Check rotational torque to rotate flange ( AFTER removing axles on floating rears, remember to put catch cans under the axle flanges as gear oil will run out onto your rims if you don't . Inspect the oil for anything shiny or metal at this point to see if you have other problems ) record this torque number then mark pinion nut to flange and mark flange to pinion also ( can use same mark on pinion) count threads from nut to end of pinion ( I usually put nut, pinion, flange mark where thread just mates perfectly meeting nut.) Count the number of threads and record this also . HOLD flange if using impact or not while removing nut . This nut should be replaced but if budget is a concern use blue lock tight upon reassembly on pinion threads . remove the flange using a two jaw puller .....no hammers or even slide hammers to do this use a puller while holding flange from turning . I find a large pipe wrench or chain wrench works well with a pipe and wire tie it against the frame. use a wood block if you need clearance between between pipe and frame. ( exhaust, fuel tank etc.) Remove old seal . Factory requires a new crush sleeve as it's a one use item . I've done it without replacing the crush sleeve and never had a redo . But it's critical to record things before disassembly as instructed above. I have known other mechanics to install a .005 shim before installing yoke between yoke and crush sleeve. I don't recommend it as it will mess with your marks and count. But rotational torque helps here. Me I never do this , again no issues. Install new seal .... a few things here put some RTV silicone on inner housing surface where seal goes into the housing assembly, put gear oil on inner lip of seal and pack the seal lip on the housing side with grease or white lithium grease before installing to keep the tension spring from popping off the lip. I have assorted seal drivers to do this without seal damage. If you don't have the specific tool you can use a piece of schedule 80 PVC pipe and a pipe cap that is the right diameter to contact the seal correctly . Then square it up and tap it into the housing. After it's in I take a small ball-peen and tap around the outer flange to be sure it's fully seated and square. Next check the flange out for any grooving where the seal rides. If you find a groove don't try to sand it away only a light emery cloth cleaning is advised if there is a groove that you can feel or if in doubt at all there is a thing called a 'speedy sleeve' that goes over the flange seal surface that removes all doubt. Install flange aligning mark on flange to mark on pinion prior to removal . Tap flange onto pinion with a dead blow hammer if needed until you can get a nut started onto the pinion threads . I say 'a nut' as here I use a standard non locking nut 12pt or a hex nut of correct thread . Pull the flange down until there is no play DO NOT TIGHTEN with this nut. after free play only is removed remove this assembly nut . next take some RTV silicone and put a bead around flange to pinion splines . This will prevent gear oil from leaking out between flange and the pinion splines. Now install the actual pinion nut .....( .lets use a AAP 11.5 diff. used on Dodge ,GM or Ford that replaced the DANA .) The 'chart' recommends an initial torque of 175 lbs. ft. I don't go over 170 ....( Only use a torque wrench from here on out to tighten the pinion nut and only increase like 5lbs between each rotational torque check. A helper would be advised as it's a lot of on and off with the flange holding tool. ) In any event torque the nut then prior to going further check your marks on the pinion and nut relationship. there should be a ways to go yet also not enough threads should be showing . With the flange being held by afore mentioned pipe or chain wrench put a mark that corresponds or aligns when on the nut with the mark under it on the nut . Then tighten the nut to the mark on the flange that aligns with the nut mark and the pinion mark you cannot see under the socket. Stop , take a break.......OK, Remove the flange holder and get out your inch pound torque wrench . ( Again this is for a AAP11.5 as an example ) Having not replaced bearings the rotation torque recommendation should be 10-20 inch lbs. Don't go over on this 20 inch lbs. On used bearings but you aren't concerned with that as you wrote down the torque before the pinion nut was removed right ? So match that previously recorded rotational torque and increase by 5inch lbs. for the additional drag of the new seal . Reinstall the drive shaft being shore to align the shaft to flange mark . Clean the axle flanges and apply new gaskets or RTV silicone and torque bolts on axle flanges. Next remove the plug on the rear of the diff. and fill to the bottom of the hole . Install the plug . Next remove the differential vent line and check for obstruction or that the vent check works correctly. Before reinstalling the vent hose and check valve put about a half pint of gear oil into the differential through the vent hole . Clean the old oil off the differential etc. Before test drive stop truck for a while while leaning to the right then to the left . Let it sit for a good 30 seconds on a warm day to allow gear oil to return to the outer floating hubs . Test drive a short distance and check for leaks . Continue on test drive to bring Diff temp to operational temp. Stop and check for leaks. Also during test drive listen for any noise from the rear . Accelerate normally then let off the gas listen for any noise that comes and goes from the rear-end . There should be no change or very little if it was just a seal problem . Return and recheck the fluid level in the differential is correct. Sorry about the book but a partial explanation will get you in trouble on these things. Good luck .
P.S. Most rental companies will have all the tools you need to do this job if you don't have them .
Can the preload spacer be made before the pinion height is set?
My thinking is that the bearings and axle housing will not move relative to each other whilst setting pinion height because the shims sit behind the bearing.
also once set up with a solid spacer can the bearings be replaced without the need to reshim so long as the preload is within spec after tightening the nut?
Not to put to fine a point on it but the correct term is pinion depth. The way to approach pinion depth is to set your pinion preload without the crush sleeve. After setting your preload, without the crush sleeve, you would take your pattern and adjust the depth accordingly. After you have achieved the correct depth and backlash, you proceed to the final assembly (pinion seal, crush sleeve and bearing) and reset the preload, with the crush sleeve in place.
Crush sleeve does not provide or maintain bearing preload. Preload is provided by the pinion nut. The only function of the crush sleeve is to prevent the inner race of the front bearing from spinning on the pinion gear shaft during operation. The crush sleeve is captured between the inner race of the pressed on pinion bearing and the inner race of the slip on front bearing preventing the front inner race from spinning. Dana diffs have no crush sleeve. The front inner race is captured between a shoulder on the pinion gear and the pinion flange. Bearing preload is provided by the nut torque and adjusted by shims. Let the arguments begin.
Correct about the crush sleeve not being the part that actually applies the pre-load. But you can't set the pre-load without it either. It transfers the load. And I've personally installed a handful of crush sleeves on Dana axles so, not sure where you're getting that from...
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ford 7.5 ring gear is a spacer avail
But why wasn't it designed that way from the factory? There must be some scientific reason for replacing the original design which obviously works like a compressed spring, continuously exerting stress on the rollers that are sandwiched between the tapered bearing races..
Cost and efficiency. What factory’s gonna pay a top mechanic upwards of $100 per hour, for up to 8 hours at a time, just to install a pinion spacer?
And unless you’re sporting a translucent diff casing then the average layman ain’t gonna see it, and it’s doubtful they’d know what it was even if they did!
You don't have any for GM 9.5's.