You are close, but missed it slightly. Simply hone the old bearing to the point that it slips easily onto the pinion shaft shoulder. Install using the doctored bearing and shims and take your measurements. Once you are satisfied with the depth/shims, take it apart and reinstall using a new unaltered bearing. Keep that old reamed bearing in your tool box...you will use it again and again.
Good call if I did a lot of these but I have only done 2 dodges in the last 7yrs. I have a large range of rear end variety so I only see the same type a couple times. Plus I only get a handful of differential jobs each year. Good idea for some though for sure.
@@CrazedPerformanceRepair I used to do this quite a bit back when I was still racing. Doing another atm for a '67 El Camino which I'm converting back to street duty. I deal mostly with 12-bolts, but the 8.8 Ford uses the exact same bearing in their housings as well. For those that want to tackle this I recommend getting one of Ratech's pinion depth checking tools for the housing you are dealing with.
@@rickss69 I saw another video where they went as far as to suggest using the same brand of bearing but that was using a pinion depth tool. Im getting refreshed on diff rebuilds since i haven't done one since the 70's . My pinion bearing has gone from a whine to a howl so not going to hone that one out for a test brg.
Just make a set of set-up bearings and slide on and off. Measure the difference between the set-up bearing and the actual bearing you are going to use and shim the difference. Its a cheap and fast way to set up gears. No need to hone the actual bearings you use. You want them to be tight so you don't spin the bearing.
I’ve been setting d and shorting rears for over 30 years I have a box full of honed bearings for all types of rears including carrier brgs. for the Dana type . Good info you sharing ! Bravo for you .
If I did enough of them I would do the same. I get such a assortment it's hard to justify keeping any hanging around. It's like I will get 4 diff jobs 1 month of all different makes then I won't see any differential work for a year lol. Strange how things work out.
I used a 2" diameter 60grit flappy sandpaper drum in a 1/4" air die grinder to open up my setup bearing. Took less than 5 minutes to give the bearing less than .002" slip fit. My setup bearing has a 2" bore. Use the largest diameter flappy sandpaper drum that fits the bearing bore to keep the process quick and accurate.
Hello everyone, i don't do this every day or month I pulled rear diff out my dodge ram 2500 / 9.75 4:10 gear and pinion from last person ran truck, pinion is rounded were it should be level sharp like square obviously it was loose, know there's no pre-load and seems I got replace ring and pinion, but I guess can't replace pinion only
Finally a guy that gets it. Been doing this trick for years on taper bearings and sometimes I use an electric pencil if I really need more press at final assembly. You probably would do more damage taking it apart to redo it anyway
NEVER spin the bearing with air. The cage is designed to retain the rollers and space them WHEN IT'S IN THE RACE. Auto techs have done this for years with wheel bearings and it makes a cool sound but I have seen them explode and cause serious injuries. If you spin the bearing dry past a slight rotating speed the bearing will be damaged.
That's the way I was trained as well, if you spin them, and get them going like that dry, and on top of that, they're loose, not in- cased in races, they're more likely to fly apart, and they're not meant to go high speeds when they're dry. In other words, you're doing something that, that bearing is not subjected to, when it's actually in use on a vehicle.
Holy shit, glad I read this, I was totally spraying the shit out of a bearing earlier with the air gun... I dont totally understand how what you guys are saying happens happens, but enough to understand I shouldnt do that anymore lol. Thanks!
I would say damage is pretty minimal unless something was wrong with the cage. But the exploding .. I could see happening. Lol probably moreso on a old bearing tho.
If I decide to clean a bearing with air, I hold it and allow to spin very slowly, maybe 5 rpm. Or I manually turn the entire assembly in my hand. I worked with a guy who blew a bearing up, he went to the hospital ER to get sewed back together.
Agree with Richard Taylor 100%, but you also need to make sure the bearing that you are going to hone out has the same bearing inner race height as the new bearing you are installing or else the whole process is a total waste of time, just went through this and then discovered that the honed bearing wasn’t the same as the new bearing. Had to purchase another new bearing with the same inner race height.
I have a better tip for everyone. Buy two bearings. Sand the inner part of the race on one so it just barely slides on and off. Use that to find the perfect distance. Then press on the second bearing and throw the first one out.
Bearings are made to such tight tolerances if you just hone the damn old bearing out and then take the the old cone put it in the lathe and burn it down so everything hand assembles get a piece of round stock and make an exact copy of your crush sleeve except as a spacer that you will leave a little extra on the length so you can grind it to size at assembly with both the front and the rear pinion bearings get the pinion set up for depth and turning resistance / preload torque and the ring gear on your carrier set up where you got perfect pattern, take it all apart. Pull the carrier out take the old bearings off your new pinion put your shims and new bearings on pinion go ahead and seat everything properly and then go ahead and put your carrier back in and double check your pattern if everything's good make sure and double check the torque on your pinion yoke nut, bearing cap bolts and ring gear you're done that way you can work on stuff you don't have to pull the carrier out and push the damn pinion out to change yokes or or mess with any crush sleeve.
I work with a lil larger tapered bearings sometimes we had to clean them if you have a lil patience you can pop the cage off them and clean them to perfection Never tried with a pinion bearing They are substantially smaller Maybe though if u need too And the bigger ones I dealt with went back together nicely With a final click Just a matter of loading up the rollers heading off the inner race Bit tricky but achievable Once clean u have piece of mind for long life
5:49 I guess you've never had a bearing explode in your face. Never do that. Otherwise good tip. I've been doing the slip fit for years and use a fresh bearing for final installation.
I have a question? can I use the old bearing on the drive shaft side until I’m done setting the pinion gear and then just change that bearing out for the final install. Of course I will hone out the head bearing for getting the shims, right. I don’t think there should be any problems with that procedure, but I don’t do this all the time but you do. I’d appreciate your feedback. Thanks, Great video.
hone the old bearings,but yes,new are better as with old you get 2-4 th,less clearence when new are instaled.so if you use old,good bearings,go about 3 th less than need,like 13 th back lash,not 8-10.th. 2th should be enough as things wear.
@@phantomwalker8251 I don't know what the hell you're talking about but absolutely NO manufacturer specifies backlash to be set at 13 thousandths of an inch! .013" is wayyyy too loose and will hum like crazy and you'll never get the correct gear tooth contact pattern. I guess you never heard of painting the gears and checking the contact pattern. It's one of the MOST important steps.
Actually, the top racers set them up 12-13 thou, so when they Heat up or overheat the clearance is non existent. But that’s racing. Google it. You’ll see.
I would not recommend honing the bearing they are an interference fit for a reason, use a bearing heater or put the pinion in the freezer, the bearing in the oven and it will fall on, I believe the metal expands .001 per 100 degrees so 300 degrees it will go on easy then shrink back as it cools.
It's not going on that's the problem, it's taking it off to adjust the shim without damaging it that's the problem. I know about the metal expansion rate but that won't work for removal.
@@russelljones1060 I can't find one to do the job worth a shit, at least nothing at a reasonable price. I only do a few a year, not like diff repairs are my bread and butter. I loose to book time on almost every one since I'm too damn picky lol.
use old,or preferably new throw away bearings to hone out.do not fit honed bearings..correct is set up bearings,available from bearing stores..not cheap..
Get a hot plate from dollar general and a cake pan,fill the pan with oil put there bearing in the pan . Turn the hot plate on high and it drop it in. When the oil gets hot enough take bearing out of drop bearing on shaft.
just chuck the bearing in an oven while you're setting things up. 100-150 degrees is all a bearing needs to drop on. good to have a small open toaster in the shop for this
put the pinion in the freezer for 24 hrs, then 1/2hr before assembly, set oven to 200 put bearing in for 20-30min, when timer goes off, take pinion out of freezer remove bearing from oven, place shims slide bearing over pinion shaft and install
I just spend the money for a pair of new sacrificial bearings. Using a die grinder with a multiflap cylinder, grind until a slip fit onto the pinion is achieved. Spend $50 for setup bearings folks and you will save yourselves a lot of time and frustration.
I've got a 2008 chevorlet silverado 4x4 3.73 gear and I had all of the bearings replaced in the rear differential but there is a lot of play in the gears I'm sure some of the play is coming from the slip yoke but is there a way to adjust the ring gear so there isn't so much play or would it just make noise if I did? The guy that did it for me just put everything back with original shims.
If you don't use a crush sleeve for pinion to ring gear contact setup, how much should you run the pinion nut down? how tight against the bearings with no crush sleeve, in order to accurately check contact pattern?
Base it off the rotation tq resistance just like when you have a crush sleeve installed. That resistance is caused from the pressure on the bearing not the sleeve. The sleeve should only be put in when you know the correct shim amount.
In case the new bearing has a slightly different tolerance or the old one is worn out. Plus most people destroy the old bearings when they remove them because of how tight they are.
I use set up bearings on all rear differentials that's I've done. I have used the old hearings and used a sand roll to hone them out in a pinch. BUT I don't recommend to ever do what the above gentlemans idea to hone the bearing your leaving on the pinion.
@@mosesmatlock4747 Exactly what this guy Moses said, set up bearings is not a new idea its been done for decades. I also do not recommend leaving the honed out bearing on the Pinion.
Do not spin a dry bearing with air. Spun fast enough the bearing can explode. Washing with mild soap and water will do a better job of cleaning just like using soap and water does a better job than brake cleaner. Don't get me wrong, brake clean will remove oil and hand prints from handling. However soap and water tends to do a more complete cleaning. Try this. Next time you replace your brake rotor, take one cleaned with brake cleaner the other with soap and water. If you did it fairly if you spray some brake cleaner on a paper towel and rub both rotors. The rotor cleaned with soap and water will come up clean while the brake cleaner rotor will still have a little dirt on it.
How about this one freeze the pinion gear and heat the bearing it falls right on no press involved. I do that on starter rings for lycoming aircraft engines all the time. It's actually in the Lycoming maintenance manual. You freeze the flywheel with dry ice and just heat the starter ring with a map torch. Again falls right in, let everything get back to room temperature and that ring is never coming off that flywheel until you freeze it again.
i changed the seal and everything went well except! between the speed of 0 to 30 its fine but from 30 to 50 there is a very loud wine and after that its fine whats wrong?
Thank you for all you help! I pulled a 2008 suburban 8.6 dif apart because of noise. Found a bad bearing on the gear side of the carrier accounting for the noise (I think). Putting all new bearings back I noticed the pinion shim was .004" thinner than the number stamped on it. .036 vs .040 stamped on it. I checked it because the inner 3 centering tabs looked thicker as if the shim was turned down or worn down. Have you ever seen this? I can't see that the bearing spun at all. Would the factory turn a shim down .004? There was no preload on the pinion before disassembly, it spun easily but was not loose. the backlash was .025 to .030 before disassembly as well. the ware on the gears looks centered and correct. would you start assembly with a .040 shim or the one that was removed?
Those gears might be worn out, if you are replacing the gears you can start with what was in there and work your way according to the gear pattern. That play that was in it is far too much as well so you're definitely going to need to adjust something. I believe the typical is between .008 and .012 of backlash.
@@CrazedPerformanceRepair Thanks for your reply! I figured the pinion shim sim must have been turned down at the factory and used it. I got the preload set to 15 inch pounds (spec is 14 to 19 inch pounds). I got it back together using the factory carrier shims in their same location and all new bearings. The backlash tightened up to .015. There was .010 difference between the two carrier shims, so I swapped them and got the backlash down to .006 (spec is .006 to .010). The pattern looks good, just a tiny bit to the inboard part of the tooth. Nice a quiet now. Thanks again for your help and the videos!
If you have a decent set of gears the stock shims should be good enough. If the stock shims are not good enough, then the gear manufacturers settings are off.
When setting the pinion depth do you mean put it all together and measure the play in the ring gear I mean how do you determine what the correct depth is with out it all together to see the wear pattern?
I did your trick but I did it by hand using wd-40. Yes I clean the bearings thoroughly, end up using a shim .008 smaller from the original. Although I took 40 hrs. I rather be picky than having to take it out again. I want the actual tool but it's too pricy plus I don't use it all the time.
Good video!! I have a question? I'm putting a track lok to a 2003 grand marquis, original I have 2.73 I'm installing a 3.27 I buy on eBay use everything, when my mechanic finish the installation one tooth stock every time he turn the pinion the same tooth, any ideas? I appreciate your help
Yes if the tooth "sticks" in the same tooth on the pinion simply throw away that pinion and ring gear set and get a new one. Then install it with new bearings. You should follow the manufacturers service manual and also find a new "mechanic" if he can't figure out something that simple. He's not a mechanic but I'm sure he thinks he is. Find ANOTHER mechanic.
Bearings are pressed on so they don't spin. I would never hone the bearing. Use proper tools for pressing on and off and use pinion setting tools to get depth right on second attempt. Why even use a roller bearing if its going to spin on the shaft under horsepower?
I still leave a light press fit to it and with even a slight press it's going to roll the rollers before it turns against friction. Not everyone is going to have the specialty pinion set up tools for every differential ever made. Especially someone like myself. I'm not afraid to take on just about any job so I work on all makes and models. No way am I going to have pinion set up tools for all diff model's when I only do a handful of them a year tops. If I was concerned about bearing spinning on shaft I would do what previous comment said. Get 2 bearings, open one up to freely slide and once pinion depth is figured press on the permanent one never opened up.
@@CrazedPerformanceRepair already did then as a set. Set load to 24 inch pounds for the pinion. Almost done , 1 hour then should ready for test drive. Thanks for fir the feedback
@@CrazedPerformanceRepair check with a ring and pinion company to see if its okay to hone out the new pinion bearings...! i dont think they would recommend that
@@yourlocalalexis4578 don't need to check, I'm sure they wouldn't recommend it. I have enough years of experience now to know this works and last a long time. I've done several with many years and miles on them still running strong.
And I sure hope you aren't suggesting to actually final install that bearing that you honed. You removed the press-fit, it'll spin on the pinion shaft under a load. It's press-fit for a reason and that reason being it holds the bearing tight on the shaft so the part that's not supposed to spin, doesn't spin lol. Why would you think it's ok to remove the press fit???? You can not do that it will fail in service, do NOT install that bearing. You can use it as a setup bearing but NOT on final assembly!
It's still a press fit, just not as tight of one. If it spins still even so then the bearing is not doing it's job. Technically that press fit portion is also held on by not only the press fit portion, but by the crush sleeve (and/or preload colar depending on diff) anyway. Furthermore I have done a great many this way and they are still on the road today after many years of use so once proven wrong I will admit defeat. Though considering the amount of load some of these I did have seen and not yet failed I doubt it will happen. Thanks for the input...
@@CrazedPerformanceRepair No you're completely wrong. 1) it's not still a press fit and 2) it's NOT held on by the crush sleeve. It's just not. You have no understanding of the rotational forces involved. And third, just because you put it together wrong and it hasn't failed yet in no way means it's done correct.
@@roberts5118 so let me get this straight, I have to push on the bearing because it's tight just not as tight as factory, yet it's not at all a press fit? Also, there's no sleeve or collar pushing against the surface of that bearing? Interesting, I must be adding too many parts... It is true though that just because it worked doesn't mean it's correct. I will give you that much.
@@CrazedPerformanceRepair by honing the bearing you're removing that press fit. You're making it slide on easier. You don't want that. You want that part of the bearing to be as tight as it possibly can be while still able to install or remove it. Why?? Because you don't want it to EVER spin. It's not the bearing surface between the pinion shaft and bearing. The bearing surface meant to spin and wear is between the race and that part that you're pressing onto the pinion shaft. What is so hard to understand. The rollers on that bearing will wear and roll against your outer race and the inner race which is part of the bearing that you're pressing onto the pinion shaft. If I have to explain all this to you then you certainly don't have an understanding of how a bearing works. When you tighten the pinion nut you are crushing everything together causing preload on those bearings and if you put too much preload, the inner race that you loosened the press fit on may spin on the pinion shaft instead of the rollers spinning in-between both races as they are designed. You're creating a potential to "spin" a bearing. Haven't you ever seen a spun bearing on a connecting rod. Connecting rods are supposed to slide around and rotate around the crankshaft journal not slide or rotate around inside the journal of the aluminum rod. Those bearings are also press fit in the aluminum rod. Things with a press fit are designed that way for a reason. Apparently you have no understanding of why things are press fit and you figure you can just alter them with no consequences. Maybe you can but it is certainly not the correct way of doing anything because it's only a matter of time before it becomes unglued and starts spinning where it shouldn't.
@@CrazedPerformanceRepair the collar or crush leave that is pushing on that bearing is simply pushing on the inner race of the bearing it has nothing to do withholding that inner race solid and connected to the pinion shaft the way it should be from a proper tight press fit. The crush sleeve cannot prevent that inner bearing breaking away from the pinion shaft and spinning on that shaft where it is not supposed to. So no in absolutely no means or any way is the crush sleeve holding that pinion bearing onto the pinion.
I like to put inside parts in freezer and warm up the outside component. Then they don't need to press at all. That's not practical though if you plan to pull it off right away.
Yes I honed out sets of set up bearing for the common diffs I would rebuild. Get proper pinion depth achived than press on the other new bearing and assemble. I was told to be careful using compressed air to spin them bearings like that when blowing them out. They say the bearing being loose in the cage spinning around and chattering could defect the race or bearing surfaces with pits or markings.
The end of a pinion is etched with a plus or minus number. A plus number has to be subtracted from the recommended pinion depth and a minus number added to it. NO the original shim is NOT necessarily close to the one that the new gear set requires. Close doesn't count. You need to know the recommended pinion depth and have the tools to measure it and then use the plus or minus number to select the correct shim. Assembling a differential is NOT a guessing game. Do you think that the manufacturer guesses when they put them together? If you actually know what you are doing then setting up a differential is NOT a challenge and NEVER a guessing game.
Who said anything about not being precise? Take a chill pill pal, if I bought the tools for ever differential to measure pinion depth I'd be broke. Besides that, this is a video to assist those doing it at home. Things can be done correctly without the fancy factory set up tools. It just takes more time to do it.
Crazed is an excellent description. By following your advise even skilled mechanics would be crazed and probably never get it right, and amateurs at home don't stand a hope in hell. Your way or the correct way, which way is going to cost less in the end?@@CrazedPerformanceRepair
@@Trout11211 well, I've never had a rear end I did fail other then the tiny gm 10 bolt that the guy later attempted to put down 800whp. They don't like anything more than around 600ish it seems. It was fine at 580 but the moment he hit it with a 250 shot of nitrous it didn't like that so much😂. But what do I know I'm just some crazed fool being told how to fix things from a keyboard warrior.
The final process in the making of a crown and pinion involves lapping with a mixture of carborundum and oil to remove high spots. This makes them a perfect match When this process is finished a number is etched onto the pinion end. Pinion depth is the beginning of a PERFECT assembly NOT a guess. Measuring, measuring and more measuring, and taking into account the numbers etched onto the pinion is where to begin. You say that the original shim will be very close??? With a new gear set this is complete BULLSHIT. With the original shim you aren't close to GUESSING correctly Did you ever take a course on how to do this? I was the teacher. MEASURING, NOT TRIAL AND ERROR. GOT IT?? Probably not. Keep on with the guessing game and wasting hours of time. You are too stupid to listen.@@CrazedPerformanceRepair
I wasn't spinning it as fast as it sounded. Besides, If the bearing had enough velocity to pass though my orbital socket and smack the back of my skull the safety glasses wouldn't help much lol. Just saying...
You can hone that bearing I.D. all day with that cheesy little wheel cylinder hone, but at the end of the day, I don't think you can remove even .0005" of material off the hard chrome surface of that bearing. Are you kidding me?! Simply remove the black coating off the bearing surfaces (2) of the new pinion shaft with crocus cloth (or break the glaze if reusing the old shaft). Then coat with anti-sieze before reassembly, and the pinion bearings will press on and off smoothly, and you won't have to be concerned with the bearing turning on the shaft due to heat expansion under extreme service.
NEVER DO WHAT HE DID WITH AIR. The bearing can EXPLODE. if spun with air. You can blow air to clean it. No problem, but never spin the bearing with air. Without the race holding the rollers in place Doesn't pickle force can actually make the rollers come out of the cage and if that hits you it can go through you
I am a perfectionist and an artist. I have learned more about everything and anything including politics. My mind needs constant information. But yet I am still piss poor
Sounds like me, in that I am always getting my mind involved in some sort of deep thought project. I listen to politics, Linux talk and even electronics tutorials while I work.
I've set up hundreds of ring in pinions over the last 4 decades and this is the stupidest thing I have seen in a long time. You can easily make set up bearings just for this purpose. Now days you can buy set up bearings for most common diffs. They call them machined parts, and use an EVEN press fit, for a reason. Let the machinist do the machining on any bearing you plan on getting a long life out of.
Did the job once, I don't see the same diff time and time again why invest in a one time job. I only do a couple diff setups a year on average. Only one diff I would consider something like that for, Ford 9in because I do them often enough. Btw, this one seen the road for three years after this many times pulling a trailer with 0 diff issues. He then sold the truck. I also did this same process on similar one pushing out over 1000 hp a few years prior with different rear end set-up, (little older). Two owners several engine fails and a transmission later diff still holding strong no noise. Now that truck was sold again though and I lost track of it. If it works in practice why bash it? If you've done so many why watch me? If you're doing so many then clearly you have a reason to own setup bearings.
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You are close, but missed it slightly. Simply hone the old bearing to the point that it slips easily onto the pinion shaft shoulder. Install using the doctored bearing and shims and take your measurements. Once you are satisfied with the depth/shims, take it apart and reinstall using a new unaltered bearing. Keep that old reamed bearing in your tool box...you will use it again and again.
Good call if I did a lot of these but I have only done 2 dodges in the last 7yrs. I have a large range of rear end variety so I only see the same type a couple times. Plus I only get a handful of differential jobs each year. Good idea for some though for sure.
@@CrazedPerformanceRepair I used to do this quite a bit back when I was still racing. Doing another atm for a '67 El Camino which I'm converting back to street duty. I deal mostly with 12-bolts, but the 8.8 Ford uses the exact same bearing in their housings as well. For those that want to tackle this I recommend getting one of Ratech's pinion depth checking tools for the housing you are dealing with.
couldnt your old bearing be worn and change your depth on the pinion ?
@@bandaid1957 Even if you chose to use an old bearing the wear is going to be irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.
@@rickss69 I saw another video where they went as far as to suggest using the same brand of bearing but that was using a pinion depth tool. Im getting refreshed on diff rebuilds since i haven't done one since the 70's . My pinion bearing has gone from a whine to a howl so not going to hone that one out for a test brg.
Just make a set of set-up bearings and slide on and off. Measure the difference between the set-up bearing and the actual bearing you are going to use and shim the difference. Its a cheap and fast way to set up gears. No need to hone the actual bearings you use. You want them to be tight so you don't spin the bearing.
I’ve been setting d and shorting rears for over 30 years I have a box full of honed bearings for all types of rears including carrier brgs. for the Dana type . Good info you sharing ! Bravo for you .
If I did enough of them I would do the same. I get such a assortment it's hard to justify keeping any hanging around. It's like I will get 4 diff jobs 1 month of all different makes then I won't see any differential work for a year lol. Strange how things work out.
I am a retired GM master tech and very good-accurate information in this video.
I used a 2" diameter 60grit flappy sandpaper drum in a 1/4" air die grinder to open up my setup bearing. Took less than 5 minutes to give the bearing less than .002" slip fit. My setup bearing has a 2" bore. Use the largest diameter flappy sandpaper drum that fits the bearing bore to keep the process quick and accurate.
I asked this question on a previous video made by someone else, so I'm glad this is doable. Thank you for taking the time to explain this in detail.
Thanks for the lesson on things not to do.
Lmao
Any time! Lol
Hello everyone, i don't do this every day or month I pulled rear diff out my dodge ram 2500 / 9.75 4:10 gear and pinion from last person ran truck, pinion is rounded were it should be level sharp like square obviously it was loose, know there's no pre-load and seems I got replace ring and pinion, but I guess can't replace pinion only
No...they become a matched set
I'm using this method to set up my diff now. Taking a break. My arms hurt just thinking about lifting my carrier again.
Finally a guy that gets it. Been doing this trick for years on taper bearings and sometimes I use an electric pencil if I really need more press at final assembly. You probably would do more damage taking it apart to redo it anyway
NEVER spin the bearing with air. The cage is designed to retain the rollers and space them WHEN IT'S IN THE RACE. Auto techs have done this for years with wheel bearings and it makes a cool sound but I have seen them explode and cause serious injuries. If you spin the bearing dry past a slight rotating speed the bearing will be damaged.
That's the way I was trained as well, if you spin them, and get them going like that dry, and on top of that, they're loose, not in- cased in races, they're more likely to fly apart, and they're not meant to go high speeds when they're dry. In other words, you're doing something that, that bearing is not subjected to, when it's actually in use on a vehicle.
Learned that the hard way. Spun a bearing on my finger that I had just washed to dry it. Exploded on my finger. Luckily escaped with a minor cut.
Holy shit, glad I read this, I was totally spraying the shit out of a bearing earlier with the air gun... I dont totally understand how what you guys are saying happens happens, but enough to understand I shouldnt do that anymore lol. Thanks!
I would say damage is pretty minimal unless something was wrong with the cage. But the exploding .. I could see happening. Lol probably moreso on a old bearing tho.
If I decide to clean a bearing with air, I hold it and allow to spin very slowly, maybe 5 rpm. Or I manually turn the entire assembly in my hand. I worked with a guy who blew a bearing up, he went to the hospital ER to get sewed back together.
Three minutes and 46 seconds for you to finally get to the point. Might I add the point that most people already knew
Agree with Richard Taylor 100%, but you also need to make sure the bearing that you are going to hone out has the same bearing inner race height as the new bearing you are installing or else the whole process is a total waste of time, just went through this and then discovered that the honed bearing wasn’t the same as the new bearing. Had to purchase another new bearing with the same inner race height.
I have a better tip for everyone. Buy two bearings. Sand the inner part of the race on one so it just barely slides on and off. Use that to find the perfect distance. Then press on the second bearing and throw the first one out.
i take the old brg and hone it out install new one after set up works every time.
Bearings are made to such tight tolerances if you just hone the damn old bearing out and then take the the old cone put it in the lathe and burn it down so everything hand assembles get a piece of round stock and make an exact copy of your crush sleeve except as a spacer that you will leave a little extra on the length so you can grind it to size at assembly with both the front and the rear pinion bearings get the pinion set up for depth and turning resistance / preload torque and the ring gear on your carrier set up where you got perfect pattern, take it all apart. Pull the carrier out take the old bearings off your new pinion put your shims and new bearings on pinion go ahead and seat everything properly and then go ahead and put your carrier back in and double check your pattern if everything's good make sure and double check the torque on your pinion yoke nut, bearing cap bolts and ring gear you're done that way you can work on stuff you don't have to pull the carrier out and push the damn pinion out to change yokes or or mess with any crush sleeve.
I work with a lil larger tapered bearings sometimes we had to clean them if you have a lil patience you can pop the cage off them and clean them to perfection
Never tried with a pinion bearing
They are substantially smaller
Maybe though if u need too
And the bigger ones I dealt with went back together nicely
With a final click
Just a matter of loading up the rollers heading off the inner race
Bit tricky but achievable
Once clean u have piece of mind for long life
I just stick the bearing in an oven for a little bit and slip it on and when it cools off it’s a very tight fit
Thanks for your wonderful help, for updating new technology support to help mi
5:49 I guess you've never had a bearing explode in your face. Never do that. Otherwise good tip. I've been doing the slip fit for years and use a fresh bearing for final installation.
Welp I'm swapping gears on my Elco next week and I'm going to make set up bearings just as you described .... I subscribed . Thanks Dude !
Spinning a dry bearing with air is a no-no.
That bad boy was zinging right along 😄
lol I was cringing the whole time thinking fuuuuck
Lil spinny wont hurt it ya sissies
@@dosbox907 maybe not the shit you own, but its poor practice. Dry spauling can happen.
@@xxdemonshitxx Funny I was thinking the same thing lololol
I have a question? can I use the old bearing on the drive shaft side until I’m done setting the pinion gear and then just change that bearing out for the final install. Of course I will hone out the head bearing for getting the shims, right. I don’t think there should be any problems with that procedure, but I don’t do this all the time but you do. I’d appreciate your feedback. Thanks, Great video.
If your not changing the pinion gear that will work fine. I was replacing pinion gears to go to a completely different gear ratio.
I wonder if u buy two pinion bearing and hone it, and install undamaged one, would be a good idea..
Yeah that's a option too, should come close enough to work out.
hone the old bearings,but yes,new are better as with old you get 2-4 th,less clearence when new are instaled.so if you use old,good bearings,go about 3 th less than need,like 13 th back lash,not 8-10.th. 2th should be enough as things wear.
@@phantomwalker8251 I don't know what the hell you're talking about but absolutely NO manufacturer specifies backlash to be set at 13 thousandths of an inch! .013" is wayyyy too loose and will hum like crazy and you'll never get the correct gear tooth contact pattern. I guess you never heard of painting the gears and checking the contact pattern. It's one of the MOST important steps.
Actually, the top racers set them up 12-13 thou, so when they Heat up or overheat the clearance is non existent.
But that’s racing. Google it. You’ll see.
@@joeshumo9457 yeah .016 is a number I hear thrown around with old junk.
For Toyota land cruiser 78 models.front and back deep got same size pinon or deferenc
So your tip is to make it easier 👍
I would not recommend honing the bearing they are an interference fit for a reason, use a bearing heater or put the pinion in the freezer, the bearing in the oven and it will fall on, I believe the metal expands .001 per 100 degrees so 300 degrees it will go on easy then shrink back as it cools.
It's not going on that's the problem, it's taking it off to adjust the shim without damaging it that's the problem. I know about the metal expansion rate but that won't work for removal.
@@CrazedPerformanceRepair I am the same way about thing (picky). So why not buy the right tool for taking them off?
@@russelljones1060 I can't find one to do the job worth a shit, at least nothing at a reasonable price. I only do a few a year, not like diff repairs are my bread and butter. I loose to book time on almost every one since I'm too damn picky lol.
use old,or preferably new throw away bearings to hone out.do not fit honed bearings..correct is set up bearings,available from bearing stores..not cheap..
Get a hot plate from dollar general and a cake pan,fill the pan with oil put there bearing in the pan . Turn the hot plate on high and it drop it in. When the oil gets hot enough take bearing out of drop bearing on shaft.
Good call I'll have to try this some time
@@CrazedPerformanceRepair Also you can put the pinion on the freezer and you don´t even need to press the new bearing.
@@omarosorio7758 I've done the freezer trick many time but yes that works well
@@CrazedPerformanceRepair how long to freeze it
just chuck the bearing in an oven while you're setting things up. 100-150 degrees is all a bearing needs to drop on. good to have a small open toaster in the shop for this
put the pinion in the freezer for 24 hrs, then 1/2hr before assembly, set oven to 200 put bearing in for 20-30min, when timer goes off, take pinion out of freezer remove bearing from oven, place shims slide bearing over pinion shaft and install
That only works if you know proper shim size.
I just spend the money for a pair of new sacrificial bearings. Using a die grinder with a multiflap cylinder, grind until a slip fit onto the pinion is achieved. Spend $50 for setup bearings folks and you will save yourselves a lot of time and frustration.
I've got a 2008 chevorlet silverado 4x4 3.73 gear and I had all of the bearings replaced in the rear differential but there is a lot of play in the gears I'm sure some of the play is coming from the slip yoke but is there a way to adjust the ring gear so there isn't so much play or would it just make noise if I did? The guy that did it for me just put everything back with original shims.
If you don't use a crush sleeve for pinion to ring gear contact setup,
how much should you run the pinion nut down?
how tight against the bearings with no crush sleeve, in order to accurately check contact pattern?
Base it off the rotation tq resistance just like when you have a crush sleeve installed. That resistance is caused from the pressure on the bearing not the sleeve. The sleeve should only be put in when you know the correct shim amount.
@@CrazedPerformanceRepair thank you
This guy has never had a roller bearing explode from spinning with air and it shows! lol.
i guess i didnt ask the right thing do the gears go back in a certan way?
Why not hone out the old bearings instead
In case the new bearing has a slightly different tolerance or the old one is worn out. Plus most people destroy the old bearings when they remove them because of how tight they are.
I use set up bearings on all rear differentials that's I've done. I have used the old hearings and used a sand roll to hone them out in a pinch. BUT I don't recommend to ever do what the above gentlemans idea to hone the bearing your leaving on the pinion.
@@mosesmatlock4747 Exactly what this guy Moses said, set up bearings is not a new idea its been done for decades.
I also do not recommend leaving the honed out bearing on the Pinion.
Do not spin a dry bearing with air. Spun fast enough the bearing can explode. Washing with mild soap and water will do a better job of cleaning just like using soap and water does a better job than brake cleaner.
Don't get me wrong, brake clean will remove oil and hand prints from handling. However soap and water tends to do a more complete cleaning.
Try this. Next time you replace your brake rotor, take one cleaned with brake cleaner the other with soap and water. If you did it fairly if you spray some brake cleaner on a paper towel and rub both rotors. The rotor cleaned with soap and water will come up clean while the brake cleaner rotor will still have a little dirt on it.
You can also heat the bearing up in a oven and it will fit right on with no pressing to it !
Yes but then it can't be pulled back off easy to change the shim.
you wont get it back off without a press and will likely ruin it doing that
How about this one freeze the pinion gear and heat the bearing it falls right on no press involved. I do that on starter rings for lycoming aircraft engines all the time. It's actually in the Lycoming maintenance manual. You freeze the flywheel with dry ice and just heat the starter ring with a map torch. Again falls right in, let everything get back to room temperature and that ring is never coming off that flywheel until you freeze it again.
That would defeat the purpose of the set up. The hole point so that it's easy to pull off again to change shims.
As grandpa always told me! Nothing wrong with being picky son, Money is hard to be earned!
I put the pinion in the freezer and the bearing in the oven it will drop into place with little effort
Do you know electronic differential lock?
i changed the seal and everything went well except! between the speed of 0 to 30 its fine but from 30 to 50 there is a very loud wine and after that its fine whats wrong?
You got you depth set wrong. I bet it's louder under light accel or decel vs neutral at that speed.
Thanks for your help.
Thank you for all you help! I pulled a 2008 suburban 8.6 dif apart because of noise. Found a bad bearing on the gear side of the carrier accounting for the noise (I think). Putting all new bearings back I noticed the pinion shim was .004" thinner than the number stamped on it. .036 vs .040 stamped on it. I checked it because the inner 3 centering tabs looked thicker as if the shim was turned down or worn down. Have you ever seen this? I can't see that the bearing spun at all. Would the factory turn a shim down .004? There was no preload on the pinion before disassembly, it spun easily but was not loose. the backlash was .025 to .030 before disassembly as well. the ware on the gears looks centered and correct. would you start assembly with a .040 shim or the one that was removed?
Those gears might be worn out, if you are replacing the gears you can start with what was in there and work your way according to the gear pattern. That play that was in it is far too much as well so you're definitely going to need to adjust something. I believe the typical is between .008 and .012 of backlash.
@@CrazedPerformanceRepair Thanks for your reply! I figured the pinion shim sim must have been turned down at the factory and used it. I got the preload set to 15 inch pounds (spec is 14 to 19 inch pounds). I got it back together using the factory carrier shims in their same location and all new bearings. The backlash tightened up to .015. There was .010 difference between the two carrier shims, so I swapped them and got the backlash down to .006 (spec is .006 to .010). The pattern looks good, just a tiny bit to the inboard part of the tooth. Nice a quiet now. Thanks again for your help and the videos!
That's the same rear end I'm working on now. Switching from 3.73 to 4.11 due to larger tires.
If you have a decent set of gears the stock shims should be good enough. If the stock shims are not good enough, then the gear manufacturers settings are off.
When setting the pinion depth do you mean put it all together and measure the play in the ring gear I mean how do you determine what the correct depth is with out it all together to see the wear pattern?
No, you have to check the wear pattern with marking agent. This just allows easy changing of shims to get it figured out.
Great video , screw the haters
Great video man, very helpful, thanks!
How does it come off after you hone it? Easy enough to pull off?
It's tight but easy enough not to damage things going on and off.
I did your trick but I did it by hand using wd-40. Yes I clean the bearings thoroughly, end up using a shim .008 smaller from the original. Although I took 40 hrs. I rather be picky than having to take it out again. I want the actual tool but it's too pricy plus I don't use it all the time.
great tip...thank you
Great vid Can you tell me by deducting 5 thousands on pinion dept ,How many thousands would it add or deduct on backlash ?
Backlash is not adjusted by pinion depth. Carrier shims control the backlash.
Good video!! I have a question? I'm putting a track lok to a 2003 grand marquis, original I have 2.73 I'm installing a 3.27 I buy on eBay use everything, when my mechanic finish the installation one tooth stock every time he turn the pinion the same tooth, any ideas? I appreciate your help
What do you mean by "one tooth stock"?
Used gear set?
Yes if the tooth "sticks" in the same tooth on the pinion simply throw away that pinion and ring gear set and get a new one. Then install it with new bearings. You should follow the manufacturers service manual and also find a new "mechanic" if he can't figure out something that simple. He's not a mechanic but I'm sure he thinks he is. Find ANOTHER mechanic.
Bearings are pressed on so they don't spin. I would never hone the bearing. Use proper tools for pressing on and off and use pinion setting tools to get depth right on second attempt. Why even use a roller bearing if its going to spin on the shaft under horsepower?
I still leave a light press fit to it and with even a slight press it's going to roll the rollers before it turns against friction. Not everyone is going to have the specialty pinion set up tools for every differential ever made. Especially someone like myself. I'm not afraid to take on just about any job so I work on all makes and models. No way am I going to have pinion set up tools for all diff model's when I only do a handful of them a year tops. If I was concerned about bearing spinning on shaft I would do what previous comment said. Get 2 bearings, open one up to freely slide and once pinion depth is figured press on the permanent one never opened up.
I guess I can not just replace the pinion gear if the ring gear looks good
Replace them as a set.
@@CrazedPerformanceRepair already did then as a set. Set load to 24 inch pounds for the pinion. Almost done , 1 hour then should ready for test drive.
Thanks for fir the feedback
The reason the old unit has failed is because the shimming is off ? Or you saying it's a good way to start the process ?
This vehicle was getting a new set of gears, as in a different gear ratio than stock. This requires setting the pinion from scratch.
@@CrazedPerformanceRepair nice explanation thanks
I'm trying to understand the movement and effects
@@CrazedPerformanceRepair check with a ring and pinion company to see if its okay to hone out the new pinion bearings...! i dont think they would recommend that
@@yourlocalalexis4578 don't need to check, I'm sure they wouldn't recommend it. I have enough years of experience now to know this works and last a long time. I've done several with many years and miles on them still running strong.
And I sure hope you aren't suggesting to actually final install that bearing that you honed. You removed the press-fit, it'll spin on the pinion shaft under a load. It's press-fit for a reason and that reason being it holds the bearing tight on the shaft so the part that's not supposed to spin, doesn't spin lol. Why would you think it's ok to remove the press fit???? You can not do that it will fail in service, do NOT install that bearing. You can use it as a setup bearing but NOT on final assembly!
It's still a press fit, just not as tight of one. If it spins still even so then the bearing is not doing it's job. Technically that press fit portion is also held on by not only the press fit portion, but by the crush sleeve (and/or preload colar depending on diff) anyway. Furthermore I have done a great many this way and they are still on the road today after many years of use so once proven wrong I will admit defeat. Though considering the amount of load some of these I did have seen and not yet failed I doubt it will happen. Thanks for the input...
@@CrazedPerformanceRepair No you're completely wrong. 1) it's not still a press fit and 2) it's NOT held on by the crush sleeve. It's just not. You have no understanding of the rotational forces involved. And third, just because you put it together wrong and it hasn't failed yet in no way means it's done correct.
@@roberts5118 so let me get this straight, I have to push on the bearing because it's tight just not as tight as factory, yet it's not at all a press fit? Also, there's no sleeve or collar pushing against the surface of that bearing? Interesting, I must be adding too many parts... It is true though that just because it worked doesn't mean it's correct. I will give you that much.
@@CrazedPerformanceRepair by honing the bearing you're removing that press fit. You're making it slide on easier. You don't want that. You want that part of the bearing to be as tight as it possibly can be while still able to install or remove it. Why?? Because you don't want it to EVER spin. It's not the bearing surface between the pinion shaft and bearing. The bearing surface meant to spin and wear is between the race and that part that you're pressing onto the pinion shaft. What is so hard to understand. The rollers on that bearing will wear and roll against your outer race and the inner race which is part of the bearing that you're pressing onto the pinion shaft. If I have to explain all this to you then you certainly don't have an understanding of how a bearing works. When you tighten the pinion nut you are crushing everything together causing preload on those bearings and if you put too much preload, the inner race that you loosened the press fit on may spin on the pinion shaft instead of the rollers spinning in-between both races as they are designed. You're creating a potential to "spin" a bearing. Haven't you ever seen a spun bearing on a connecting rod. Connecting rods are supposed to slide around and rotate around the crankshaft journal not slide or rotate around inside the journal of the aluminum rod. Those bearings are also press fit in the aluminum rod. Things with a press fit are designed that way for a reason. Apparently you have no understanding of why things are press fit and you figure you can just alter them with no consequences. Maybe you can but it is certainly not the correct way of doing anything because it's only a matter of time before it becomes unglued and starts spinning where it shouldn't.
@@CrazedPerformanceRepair the collar or crush leave that is pushing on that bearing is simply pushing on the inner race of the bearing it has nothing to do withholding that inner race solid and connected to the pinion shaft the way it should be from a proper tight press fit. The crush sleeve cannot prevent that inner bearing breaking away from the pinion shaft and spinning on that shaft where it is not supposed to. So no in absolutely no means or any way is the crush sleeve holding that pinion bearing onto the pinion.
cool tip with care.
Are you saying with used gears your looking for the best setups,because new gears are marked with the correct setup.
use heat gun to expand inner bearing race
I like to put inside parts in freezer and warm up the outside component. Then they don't need to press at all. That's not practical though if you plan to pull it off right away.
Have any of you ever used this technique in the past?
Yes!!! Works great and potentially saves $$$ on a ruined bearing....love your channel
Yes I honed out sets of set up bearing for the common diffs I would rebuild. Get proper pinion depth achived than press on the other new bearing and assemble. I was told to be careful using compressed air to spin them bearings like that when blowing them out. They say the bearing being loose in the cage spinning around and chattering could defect the race or bearing surfaces with pits or markings.
Absolutely, just have to pay for the correct set of bearings to make into setup bearings.
That dodge ram is 2001 by the way
were you featured on trc?
Not that I am aware of.
The end of a pinion is etched with a plus or minus number. A plus number has to be subtracted from the recommended pinion depth and a minus number added to it.
NO the original shim is NOT necessarily close to the one that the new gear set requires.
Close doesn't count. You need to know the recommended pinion depth and have the tools to measure it and then use the plus or minus number to select the correct shim.
Assembling a differential is NOT a guessing game. Do you think that the manufacturer guesses when they put them together? If you actually know what you are doing then setting up a differential is NOT a challenge and NEVER a guessing game.
Who said anything about not being precise? Take a chill pill pal, if I bought the tools for ever differential to measure pinion depth I'd be broke. Besides that, this is a video to assist those doing it at home. Things can be done correctly without the fancy factory set up tools. It just takes more time to do it.
Crazed is an excellent description. By following your advise even skilled mechanics would be crazed and probably never get it right, and amateurs at home don't stand a hope in hell. Your way or the correct way, which way is going to cost less in the end?@@CrazedPerformanceRepair
@@Trout11211 well, I've never had a rear end I did fail other then the tiny gm 10 bolt that the guy later attempted to put down 800whp. They don't like anything more than around 600ish it seems. It was fine at 580 but the moment he hit it with a 250 shot of nitrous it didn't like that so much😂. But what do I know I'm just some crazed fool being told how to fix things from a keyboard warrior.
The final process in the making of a crown and pinion involves lapping with a mixture of carborundum and oil to remove high spots. This makes them a perfect match When this process is finished a number is etched onto the pinion end. Pinion depth is the beginning of a PERFECT assembly NOT a guess. Measuring, measuring and more measuring, and taking into account the numbers etched onto the pinion is where to begin. You say that the original shim will be very close??? With a new gear set this is complete BULLSHIT. With the original shim you aren't close to GUESSING correctly
Did you ever take a course on how to do this? I was the teacher.
MEASURING, NOT TRIAL AND ERROR. GOT IT?? Probably not. Keep on with the guessing game and wasting hours of time. You are too stupid to listen.@@CrazedPerformanceRepair
DC se AC current fitting
Keep blowing that bearing Buddy no safety glasses brilliant you'll have one of those rollers in the back of your skull in no time.
I wasn't spinning it as fast as it sounded. Besides, If the bearing had enough velocity to pass though my orbital socket and smack the back of my skull the safety glasses wouldn't help much lol. Just saying...
You should never spin the cage on a bearing because they can explode and put bearings in your body just like a bullet.
You can hone that bearing I.D. all day with that cheesy little wheel cylinder hone, but at the end of the day, I don't think you can remove even .0005" of material off the hard chrome surface of that bearing. Are you kidding me?! Simply remove the black coating off the bearing surfaces (2) of the new pinion shaft with crocus cloth (or break the glaze if reusing the old shaft). Then coat with anti-sieze before reassembly, and the pinion bearings will press on and off smoothly, and you won't have to be concerned with the bearing turning on the shaft due to heat expansion under extreme service.
NEVER DO WHAT HE DID WITH AIR. The bearing can EXPLODE. if spun with air. You can blow air to clean it. No problem, but never spin the bearing with air. Without the race holding the rollers in place Doesn't pickle force can actually make the rollers come out of the cage and if that hits you it can go through you
I am a perfectionist and an artist. I have learned more about everything and anything including politics. My mind needs constant information. But yet I am still piss poor
Sounds like me, in that I am always getting my mind involved in some sort of deep thought project. I listen to politics, Linux talk and even electronics tutorials while I work.
Yup how ironic spinning the bearings is like wearing crocks with socks.......
Dude talks more than he shows 🙄, good top thoughts
When all else fails, go deep
Do you really think you're the first person to come up with making a "set-up" bearing??
Um, no not at all. Why would you assume I think that. I'm not arrogant lol.
I've set up hundreds of ring in pinions over the last 4 decades and
this is the stupidest thing I have seen in a long time. You can easily make set up bearings just for this purpose. Now days you can buy set up bearings for most common diffs. They call them machined parts, and use an EVEN press fit, for a reason. Let the machinist do the machining on any bearing you plan on getting a long life out of.
Did the job once, I don't see the same diff time and time again why invest in a one time job. I only do a couple diff setups a year on average. Only one diff I would consider something like that for, Ford 9in because I do them often enough. Btw, this one seen the road for three years after this many times pulling a trailer with 0 diff issues. He then sold the truck. I also did this same process on similar one pushing out over 1000 hp a few years prior with different rear end set-up, (little older). Two owners several engine fails and a transmission later diff still holding strong no noise. Now that truck was sold again though and I lost track of it. If it works in practice why bash it? If you've done so many why watch me? If you're doing so many then clearly you have a reason to own setup bearings.
Never ever spin a bearing withh an air hose
I've commented on this at nauseam for this video by now, but I didn't spend it as fast as it sounds.