I did the opposite. I played the hell out of Lies of P and got used to the tight parry window. When I went to Sekiro, thinking it'd be the same, it threw me off at how the timing was a few frames different. Like I thought, "Oh, I need to parry Genichiro as soon as his sword is near me," but I got slashed instead. It took me a while to get used to Sekiro parrying, but I was able to do it and beat the game. Kinda crazy how just a slight difference in timing can make or break your combat flow
@ImNa0405 I had heard that Sekiro's parrying is more in line with a flow of combat, while LoP is disjointed. I can definitely see what you mean by it being like playing an instrument. There's a certain tempo you can feel when you fight against bosses like Genichiro with clashes, parrying his diagnol slash, when to use your umbrella during his flurry combo, there's some room for improv. Lies of P is more about nailing those specific moments, and you can immediately tell when you're preemptive or late because of chip damage or even getting stunlocked into a deadly combo. It's more demanding and punishing, but when you master Lies of P...holy shit do you feel amazing lol
@@MrTaikobo absolutely amazing feeling mastering lop I saw that on other player videos That's why i decided to play lop after beating sekiro And i'm trying to master it I've just beaten the chapter 8 boss Still learning the two dragons sword technique
I think i understand why sekiro's deflect timing is slightly earlier. Think it's just mainly to make the deflect animation look less choppy. If the timing is late like Lies of P, wolf's arm might feel like it kind of teleports to deflect the attack. Whereas it having a windup allows for a more gradual movement making the deflect animation look more natural.
It's def harder than Sekiro IMHO. Bu t that may be because I played TF out of sekiro and I'm only in my 2nd playthrough of Lies of P. Still, I think Lies of P has the best parry in any soulslike/soulsborne game.
parrying timing in lies of p is a little bit weird. the reason is the characters have unnatural swing or stab movements you cant time it unless you memorize it. at the beginning of the game I initially thought that the enemies attack with mid motion pauses etc because they are malfunctioning puppets. but almost all enemies attack with mid motion hesi-pause that feels way unnatural, dont make sense in physics.
Most of the puppets with the pauses in the attacks are supposed to be interpreted as glitches I think for the "in-game" reason, but for sure that's just the developers contextualizing the long wind up animations for attacks. Like how the Police boss puppet spins his arms before slamming down the attack. It's the same thing Elden Ring and Sekiro already did with the delayed attacks, but better contextualized imo. Not that it needs very much contextualizing tbh, it makes sense for enemies to delay attacks to catch the player off guard, and they still work with a specific rhythm so you can still memorize them and it's not unfair. People complain about delayed attacks in newer fromsoft games but having recently played Dark Souls 1 and 2 and steamrolling most of the bosses I can say for sure it's more fun to have to learn the timings than just follow a very obviously telegraphed animation.
That's kinda the point though to surprise you. In sekiro you have plenty enemies that for example jump into the air and linger just that quarter of second too long there. If you could just reaction-parry every move in the game it would get boring I guess.
@@Diegoshadow85 nah in sekiro enemies feint "before" the swing, hangs in air etc. when they start swinging the weapon, it continues naturally without interruption. in lies of p enemies hesi mid swing which is weird. take this video for instance. laxasia (with a big weapon which expected generate momentum when swung above shoulder) starts swinging motion above shoulder but stops when that big ass weapon reaches ground, then surprisingly starts an upwards motion attack. that does not make sense compared to the similar attacks of the monk from sekiro.
@@drzitbag06 I'll just say it makes the same amount of sense for an enemy to hang in the air as it does to hold mid swing (which I haven't seen evidence of anyway, afaik enemies only hold before the swing animation)
The Lies of P parry bothers me so much because it's clearly inspired by Sekiro's with the big bright flash of sparks when you get it just right, but it lacks the contextual animations that make Wolf's parries look so cool. His sword actually deflects to the side in the direction he throws the enemy's attack, while Pinocchio just holds every weapon the same way in front of his face.
That's because in Lies of P it's not a deflect, it's a perfect block, blocking is not the same as deflecting, gameplay wise this is splitting hairs I know, but if you want to compare realism with animations, then you need to consider the actual terms the games use and what it actually is the character is doing
The one thing that truly bothers me about Lies is that I feel like I'm fighting Elden Ring's Margit, with near every single enemy. The delays, the weird and snappy animations, it gets downright exhausting to play after a while. Now I'd like to see a game where the enemy tries that and you can just stab them to end them right then and there.
Kinda yes for me too, but when i get used to it it was ok. But what i didnt expect is that i went and started another Elden Ring playthrough as soon as i finished Lies of P, and i was infuriated at first with the bosses, felt like i am fighting without options except dodge and attack. Offcourse i got used back to ER and ultimatively i like combat and all in ER more, but i would wish that parry with any weapon like in Lies of P would become standard in souls games and also that consumables would be as usefull in other souls games. Btw, i think Margit style delayed attacks will unfortunately become the staple of souls games in the future, i mean FromSoftware started first with it in Elden Ring. P.S: ..also, Radagon's one delayed followup attack on hamer smash that can happen but it can completely not happen and you do not know unless you commit to counter attack or dodge ( in the wrong direction so you get clipped ) is really bad game design and should be patched out.
@@DreamskyDance Their attempts at catching us veterans out after more than a decade of Souls. I'd just rather it stay in *one* game, not every game following it. Or, indeed, let me counter their delays to punish them in return.
@DreamskyDance delayed attacks is not a new thing that Elden Ring started. Sekiro had them, Dark Souls 2 has them, and i don't remember but I think 3 did as well. Elden Ring just did it alot more than usual. Also Radagons attack isn't bad game design, and does not need patched, stop crying. Commit or dodge, that's the choices, he rarely does that to catch you off guard, same with almost every single other boss. Play the game enough times or fight them enough and they start pulling out new moves.
@@DreamskyDance with elden ring you're supposed to use the delay to get hits in or to reposition, especially with margit, also if you where talking about radagon's grab you can counter both the short and extra delayed version by just moving away, prepare to dodge the short version, if the short version doesn't happen than you just run further and prepare for the extra delay.
The enemies with the wrecking-ball hands in Chapter 9 of Lies of P are basically like that, they take a calendar year to wind up their attack and you can just kill them before they even get the chance to swing.
This is a superb video man and just helped me grasp Sekiro syetem in a few minutes. Was doing the Lies of P perfect parry and failing miserably. You just tap it a second before and that beautiful Katana parries like a beauty...
Thank you for doing this video. I put away sekiro because I couldn’t parry. I watched this last week, and since then I’ve beaten Genichiro and the ape. And I had a blast. It finally clicked for me. Thank you! Update: I’m on the final boss now, and I’ve had the best time ever with this game. I studied from 18-32 seconds on this video. This section was everything for me. Thank you so much again.
@@alakazoom87 so isshin was the worst. He took me weeks of trying. I was not one of those guys that beat him easily. I finally memorized his patterns and spent the week destroying him lol. I just kept going back to him and replaying on repeat. Three things I learned was the genichiro fight was throwing my cadence off. So I really had to step back and think differently with isshin. After that I mortal bladed him to death for the first phase. Learned to dash under him in his second phase, and learned to time my lightning repels on the third phase. I wish genichiro wasn’t part of the fight. Isshin would have been much much easier. IMO
@Redlist99 ya he's super hard. There's no secret meta weapon and build you can grind to beat him... unlike elden ring. Sekiro is a legit get good game.. I love and hate it!
Fromsoftware usually has a delay from your input, since the characters has to do an animation windup to actually do whatever you told the characyer to do. In Sekiro, the animation is really, really fast, almost instant, but it is still there. In Lies of P seems that the effect of the parry instantly comes in at the same time that the animation plays out, but it last for fewer frames to account for that.
Sekiro parry is more natural and intuitive since the timing is before the hit, like in real life you cover you face from something before it hit you. In lies of p is more like a perfect shield in smash bros (not counting ultimate), and keeping the boton pressed is kinda weird. But hey, they needed to make a little different the combat.
Actually, there is a very simple reason, in Sekiro, attacks hang in the air for a short time, the time given to you to block is mostly the time while the weapon is swinging. In Lies Of P, the gun stays in the air for a long time and is suddenly thrown away. It seems like the producers want us to memorize the swing moment of the gun and press the button accordingly. Just like playing Piano Tiles, you have to press it at the right time, on the contrary in Sekiro, you have to wait for the weapon to swing and press it when you see it swinging. I think this is the main difference
Bro, thank you. My first soulslike game is Lies of P and I trained a lot to get good on parry because of the Two Dragons Sword, which is my favorite weapon. Recently I tried Sekiro because everyone says the game is parry-based and I just dropped because I couldnt parry like I do on LoP. Now I know that the parry window is totally different, so maybe I'll try Sekiro again.
@@drifter2928 you lose parry frames when you let go of the button, holding the button a little early and not letting go until it collides will give you more consistent perfect deflects. The only exception is with thrusts and certain deflectable perilous attacks.
@@Ghorda9 I've played Sekiro and LoP. You just tap it with Sekiro, I know that you should hold it for a bit in LoP because, again, I've played it. To back my point, here's this from the Sekiro wiki: *"To deflect an enemy attack simply tap the Guard button (L1/LB) as an attack is coming;* this negates all damage from most attacks, builds up the enemies Posture gauge by a significant amount, and staggers most enemies briefly, allowing you a small window to counter attack." Also, here's a video explaining why it's better to hold the guard button in LoP (In the video, the guy even says that it's different to how you tap the block button in Sekiro): ua-cam.com/video/qkzwPwmoZ2c/v-deo.htmlsi=qGBVWGmZLbu-pcJn
Nice video! Recently I finished Lies of P and felt the parry system is so good, not in a single moment I thought it was odd and all my mistakes were cleary MY mistakes with timing. So I tried Sekiro again after years, just to see if it is similar and like your video shows... it isn't. Sekiro's parry needs to be done early, unlike Lies of P parry that you press when the animation hits you. FOR ME it feels more natural the way Lies of P handle the parry. After playing Sekiro again, I only beat Genichiro easily because I still remember his patterns, but it feels like there is no way to react, you have to learn his patterns, otherwise you'll get hit.
@@twrk139 I know it's not like in real life, Sekiro did in a more realistic way, but for a video game it felt more comfortable (for me) parrying in Lies of P. It's more natural to react when u see the animation hitting you. The difference for me is that Lies of P accomplishments you for reacting at right time and Sekiro wants you to learn the enemies move sets.
@@BasicLand-Swamp when the parry is instantaneous, you don't have to anticipate anything, as you can just press the parry exactly when the sword tags you. Of course its more "comfortable", you just tap the button when the sword connects with your body. Not "natural", but arcadeyfied. (I'm not saying it's a bad thing)
Right, but you’re not actually using a weapon, you’re pressing a button on a controller (can be done in less than a second). Lies of P plays into the gameplay rhythm rather than shoehorning realism. Same reason why games quit trying startup animations for walking, slow turnaround animations, realistic movement speeds. Because there’s no mind->body->environment pipeline, it’s just mind->game. Realism feels bad because games aren’t realistic. That’s better suited for VR titles where you’re actually using your body. There it feels natural.
Sekiro's parry has a longer window that Lies of P from my experience. I feel Sekiro's parry is best slightly earlier, while Lies of P really aims to be just before the attack hits. Personally coming back to Sekiro I think the parry is very generous, and I do honestly prefer Lies of P's parry timings more, since I think they are more reasonable and I like the slight difficulty to it (but it would be hell during no Kuro's charm). Though, I do like Sekiro more overall still. I'd love to see a mod for Sekiro that replaces normal deflect windows with Lies of P's timings
@@osamb1e658 actually I was planning on doing Jidao 2.1 after doing my NG4+ run for fun. Maybe I’ll do LMTSR after that. Either way I’ll try to come back and give my opinion afterwards
i will definitely be playing both of their sequels. Lies of P I just finished and it’s atmosphere and music and setting is just awesome. Sekiro is even a level above all that and is the best game i have ever played. Keep these kind of games coming !
Ill be the technical knowledge guy (mainly on sekiro): *some explanation on the terms i use: Guard - blocking stance Entering guard - deflect animation Air - relevant to sekiro, and is its own state Sprint - fast run which requires held down dashing key, the dash itself is NOT a sprint state Ill also call s as "frames", for convenience sake Sekiro deflect frames all start from frame 0, that means as soon as you enter the guard animation, you already have deflect frames (Ill elaborate on amount of frames for parries in just a bit). Transition to idle happens after you get all the frames in majority of cases. Lies of p also has instant frames, what changes, however, is that you enter idle state transition before you get all frames if you do not hold. Lies of p has 8 deflect frames, i think two dragons sword has more than that. Sekiro has 12 frames on basic entry into guard state, 12 frames for air deflects (but you do not get any frames on landing), and 24 frames on sprint (you will only get that much during sprint state, dashing and entering guard will only trigger 12). Sekiro dodging has 12 frames on backward, left, and right. Front dodge has 18 frames. All 4 trigger invincibility from frame 0, so s are instant. Some characteristics between the 2 games: Sekiro deflecting has "stages", i dont think lies of p has that and if it does, then it definetly works differently on the technical side compared to sekiro's for reasons explained below... "Stage" indicates how many deflect frames your next input will have. Stage 1 - 12 frames Stage 2 - 6 frames Stage 3 - 4 frames Stage 4 - 0 frames Stages is why spam blocking in sekiro doesnt work, as you end up having no frames by the 4th consecutive guard. Stages is also why you may struggle to deflect consecutive attacks, and why one mind/floating passage need tech (or alternatively the use of prosthetics or positioning) to deal with. If youve read this far, then please take LoP information with a grain of salt, as there is no direct way of viewing frame data for that game and thus we either rely on developer's reply, hearsay, or data mining (which would help us in figuring out thing beyond frames for deflecting). As for sekiro data, im of most certainty that it is correct, as we have the means to view that game's frame data (as well as actual player logic). If youre wondering how i know this, i learnt all this from my time of making sekiro mods, as well as talking with modders about this (i have also been working on a "fix" to stages messing up consecutive deflects). Ps: and for the love of god, do NOT use fextra wiki as a source, as it can spread misinformation, and is the culprid of why people still say sekiro has 30 frames (There is also sketchy shit that the guy does to boost his page, so its just its own kind of mess).
I haven't play Sekiro yet, but i didn't enjoy Lies of P parry - I couldn't get to the consistency that would allow me to relay on it, and don't use dodge most of the time. Especially since many attacks followed my movement and I had to parry something even I thought I was on the back of the foe. I have to play Sakiro one day and see if it will be more intuitive for me.
Basically sekiro just works better. Lop feels disjointed, inconsistent, and slot more frustrating. Fights in sekiro feel like a dance. Lop feels like the enemy is trying but ur stepping on toes
Nah. You just failed to adjust to new mechanics you weren't familiar with. I started with lies of p then went to sekrio and I dog walked nearly boss I encountered
Sekiro parry's windows feels perfecto, and if you feel like its too easy ( i dont think so), you can do the run without the talisman. It's just perfect
the thing is it still doesn't work right exactly when the attack happens. That's the biggest frustration for me (besides the cringe animations.) I'm all for stricter timings and teleporting block animations, but then you have to allow the player to parry right on time as the attack beat. In actuality the parry window still definitely closes RIGHT before the landing of attacks so that for example in long chain attacks even if memorize the timing of attacks you still have to do this mental gymnastics in your brain to press block just off beat to the attack sound and it's sooo annoying
I haven't played sekiro yet but I just finished Lies of P and I loved the parry system. The game rewards you for aggressive gameplay and for playing right since you break their stance the more you parry. I loved it.
On other thing I’d like to add is that Sekiro almost exclusively has enemies that attack you with a blade, which just feels better to parry imo. In Lies of P there are so many enemies that use there fists or some other deformed bodypart as their weapon which makes it kinda weird to know when the blow lands.
In reality though lies of p isn't a parry. You're not deflecting a swing part way through it's arc to hit you. You're blocking an attack directly at the end of it's swing as it hits you
Lies of P parry window is tighter, but that's not what makes it hard, far from it, most likely you'd die from missing a parry completely rather than parrying too early. The hard thing with lies of p is that the boss goes from "holding" their attack to smacking you in the face in a very short time(literal unreactable speed), essentially, you have to parry BEFORE the swing is actually coming your way which is incredibly unintuitive and requires brute memorizations of timings. But the real difference between the two parries is how wolf reacts after a parry where he swings his sword left or right, that shit is clean af.
I can only think of Nameless Puppet for the scenario you're giving and 1.3.0.0 fixed that issue so I can't think of any attacks where that happens. I can think of plenty for Sekiro though. Isshin alone has attacks that are just complete memorization. It's like half his moves.
This is what i noticed too, but thats expected from non fromsoft soulslikes. every one ive played makes that mistake and don't give animations the time and care they need so the player isnt given a fair chance. it took multiple souls for From to get it down too. There will always be moves From throws in that you cant react but in general getting hit/killed feels a lot fairer than other soulslikes, not to mention an unreactable move in From games usually isnt as devastating as it is in other soulslikes where a hit is more punishing in those games. You definitely could react to some in P too but from my experience it was clear the devs did it on accident more than intentionally. Seeing the uploaders responses to other comments i can tell he was salty in sekiro which explains his response here 🤭
@@petercottantail7850 To be fair I think LoP CAN do amazing telegraphing/animations, the scrapped watchman has some masterfully done moves. But the issue is that the only mode of difficulty they know is speed. Like sure if you make the enemies 50% faster the game will be harder, not necessarily better.
no wonder I keep getting my ass handed to me in sekiro after completing lies of p with "relative ease" (laxasia and NP done under 10 attempts, it was my first soulslike too). this video is going to help.
Late to the party but I can't believe people who played Lies of P after Sekiro had a hard time adjusting to parrying (I'm people). But seriously, I think even of you master parrying in Lies of P, dodge-rolling is still better as the go-to move, the same way parry is the go-to mechanic vs step-dodging in Sekiro. Both games are nice though but I realized any similar game that has a stamina bar isn't for me lol.
Despite the differences in gameplay, playing either one improves your overall parry timing with the other. At least that’s my experience. I haven’t played Sekiro in a while so when I completed Lies of P, I replayed Sekiro again and didn’t feel any sort of rustiness.
You can absolutely time Sekiro deflects like in Lies of P. It does work on impact (and prior to impact, like you’re showing, up to 12 frames). I’ve found it actually works even slightly later to impact as well. So, you must just be doing it too late on your Corrupted Monk example. Everything else is spot on. Another thing that should be noted is you can spam-tap deflect in Sekiro, with the caveat that the active frames reduce from the standard 12 the more it’s spammed. In Lies of P, you only get one chance to get your perfect guard timing right; spam tapping does not work (even twice; i.e., trying to correct a mistimed perfect guard by tapping again).
@@Ghorda9 That’s not true. Whether you tap or hold in Sekiro, it is consistently 12 frames. I already covered why spam tapping is something you should never do.
@@jporob You can’t spam perfect guard in LoP. You get one opportunity to perfect guard; if mistimed, and you attempt to press it again in short succession, it will not work. Sekiro’s deflect is more forgiving in this regard, even without Kuro’s Charm.
I think something that gets overlooked when comparing the two games is that Sekiro expects you to try to deflect everything and punishes you for blocking whereas Lies of P incentivizes perfect guard but makes just blocking perfectly viable as well because of the regain mechanic. You can make it through most fights just blocking in Lies of P, the perfect guard is more of a risky move that gives you an extra advantage. I thought it would be more required to master it because of the fury attacks but most of those can just be outspaced/sprinted around. That said getting a perfect guard is very satisfying and effective when you pull it off.
Exactly, Sekiro raises the blade which takes time, which means the player has to take the couple milliseconds into account. Which in return makes Sekiros system much more satisfying to look at since the animations actually add up.
The thing is that sekiro, while it has an easier parry mechanic it also has harder moves to deflect. Enemies dont have strong telegraph attacks so you need to either learn their whole moveset or simply spam deflect. Lies of P while it has a smaller and harder deflect mechanic makes up for It by having enemies with wind ups and predictable attacks and patterns. If you try to play sekiro with lies of P parry frames, the game will be unplayable but if you play lies of p with sekiro deflect it will be a cake walk
Parry timing in LoP feels weird and unintuitive to me. Its not just the parry though, the design of the enemies and movesets dont do it any favors. I enjoyed LoP, but it was an area of the hame that was disappointing to me.
Personally i tried Sekiro and gave up very early because i am very very bad at parrying and the game was simply insurmauntable without using it. I had problems with getting parry right in Lies of P but there i actually managed to learn it and i finished the game, for me parry timings in Lies of P seemed a lot more logical and easier to hit than in Sekiro. I've even considered giving Sekiro another try after Lies of P, because the game actually thaught me that i infact can parry in games and that my reaction time isnt too slow for parrying. So idk, maybe my feel for timings and rythm clashes hard with Sekiro's timings and rythm but Lies of P timings feel more natural to me.
Sekiros system relies hard on also looking at your character and the enemy simultaneously. (At least in the beginning until you have the timing down) Sekiros blade simply isn’t up if you’d press the parry when the blow lands, that’s why you press just before to give Sekiro time to raise his blade otherwise the animations would be incoherent and thus would feel off. Sekiro system is completely logical when you accept the fact that parrying isn’t something that Sekiro can do instantly but he actually needs some time to get into position.
@@stormdivision617 ...hmm...never thought about it, never even looked at Sekiro as you said. My thought process when in combant and about to parry was : ..oh he is gonna hit me...its comming..its comming..not yet..comming closer..now..* click *.. shit i got hit ... I'll try it, well now i am playing some other game, ut after that i am returning to Sekiro to at least try your advice. I didnt go far in the game, i stopped at some mini boss drunk guy with giant sword that spits poison now and then. Thnx man, i never even thought to take notice of my character as well in combat ... maybe this tips will help XD
@@DreamskyDance that's actually false, in sekiro you just need to parry sooner than you think you need to and just hold the button down, you don't get the full frames if you just tap it. Also the parry window starts as soon as you touch the button.
@@DreamskyDance also the drunkard it's actually better to sprint/dodge around his attacks because he never blocks and his attacks are too infrequent to build up posture off parries alone.
The problem with Lies Of P is the unreadable attacks, they have no wind up yet require a split second to parry. Its a good game but the combat is flawed.
I have the opposite problem, I just Platinumed Lies and went to Sekiro, I’m getting destroyed even though I beat Sekiro first lol. Good breakdown, thank you 🙏🏻
So for Sekiro The parry happens before the atack lands, thats odd, seems to me that the parry should happen when you get the hit. Looks like the 'problem'' with Lies of P parry is that they did it right but everyone wants it like Sekiro.
Well I could be wrong but I think the main thing being here is that for a successful single parry, your parry window timing in Sekiro is actually quite lenient. However, if you spam parry- each time you spam without actually deflecting, the window gets decreased.
just because in LoP the parry window is on the moment when the attacks lands on you doesn't make it "right". "Right" is an objective term that isn't applicable in something like this. In Sekiro, the parry window being before the attack lands and much more open makes the game a lot more comfortable to play, more intuitive and flow better.
@@renanleandro5914 generous parry window may make the game easier and more comfortable, but it has nothing to do with being intuitive or fluid. it's just your feeling. Before pointing it out to others, I think need to be careful yourself first about objective terminology.
Honestly, in Sekiro, I always have to tell myself to parry slightly earlier than when the attack lands, which is kinda weird. The parry timing of lies of p makes much more sense, I just wish it was more generous
@@TheDoolExactly parrying doesn’t happen instantly, you kinda have to ‘get in position’. Thats why Sekiros system feels right, it’s coherent with what the player would expect. Its coherent with what the player sees, which is Sekiro getting in Position upon pressing LB, so you instinctively give Sekiro that extra more time to fully get his guard up when the blow lands. Its seriously underestimated that the parry system not only needs to feel right but to also look right and thats why Sekiros system is superior imo.
@@TheDoolso they are adding superfluous animation for the sake of realism? I'd rather have snappy controls than deal with delayed animations just to be realistic.
@@TheDool yes, otherwise something like a fighting game would be terribly unbalance without it. But you know what else would be terrible? Giving basic movements a start up animation. When i press a button to move forward, i expect the character to move forward immediately. There's a reason why I still prefer RE4 over the Remake, also why I can't stand playing RDR2 cause of its tedious and unnecessary animations.
Sekiro felt so natural to me because I take the animation and attack in mind that I press for Wolf to put the sword up, however in Lies of P you have to forget and disconnect yourself from the animations and only focus on click when the attack hits
Thank you this what I've been looking for, I was trying to find a video of how the timing of the parry looks like in Sekiro. I've been trying to parry attacks like LoP (which I haven't played). So I keep taking hits and dying.
Thanks for the explanation and showing the difference between them. I have never played Sekiro, I played bloodborne and enjoyed it.....but lies of P feels like the way a "parry" would happen, as the attack hits the force needs "deflecting". I love everything about the lies of P combat, I gelled so much with it that I was able to beat the nameless puppet third try. I am on my second playthrough and I'm blown away with Neowiz, I seriously cannot believe how amazing this game is and now I know why people say "the parry window is too small", but I disagree it's perfect. The delayed attacks are rough but it has made me play with patience and then aggression. The new weapon kind of destroys.
Im the other way around. I feel sekiro has great "parry" feeling. For real Life parry you are supposed to meet the attack half way. "Just when it lands" would be bracing on guard
@@vittocrazi true, I am going to grab Sekiro because if it is like P, I'll get the timing down. It seems like the dancer fight is every fight in Sekiro though.
I think in lies of P once you press block the animation has to finish before you can parry so you need to press like 0.5 sec early while on sekiro its so quick that it feels like the arm teleports to block move and there's no animation
It’s before the attack, not as the attack is landing. It’s just very tight, which makes it seem as though you’re pressing L1/LB at the moment of impact.
I tought its just a controller delay when trying to parry in sekiro but i was wrong. In sekiro you have less time to react because you need to hit parry just before the attack start to come. In lies of p your brain have time to understand that the sword is coming and you just wait to react
Start with Dark Souls (Demon Souls if you have a PS5 or OK with emulation). Believe me, it will be a much better overall experience when you play Elden Ring as the last one .
For everyone struggling with LoP parry, here’s a quick tip that worked for me: remap the block button to triangle/Y, it’ll feel unnatural at first I know, but when the timing is so strict and precise, it was easier for me to react with my thumb on a frontal press rather than with my index on a down press. Only after this change I was able to beat Laxasia
Yea FromSoft probably had a lot of in-house play tests and they made their parry system the way we have it today for good reason, it simply feels better this way. It’s much more coherent with what the player sees and thus just feels right although it technically isn’t. Such gameplay mechanics truly live off of their feel and Sekiro nailed it. I started Lies of P 2 days ago and while it is an excellent Souls-Like, probably the best there is, the parry system just doesn’t feel good most of the time. I mean I am aware that you can get used to it, just like you can with anything else, but I am still certain it can never surpass Sekiros system in terms of satisfaction. That’s the hard truth imo.
Lies of P makes the mistake of gimping your character. For example you only have 1 dodge initially (and before the patch you had to unlock it, was even worse). Dont get me wrong Lies of P is a very good game, but now we have a huge number of Soulslikes and i am recommending to other people other easier games that your knowledge skills (Soulslike Fundamentals) is more transferable. Anyway in Lies of P most of the time its better to dart in and dart out, because many enemies have a 3-hit combo or more.
The posture system is so rewarding in Sekiro, making every parry more satisfying because you know they work towards "one-shotting" the boss. Granted, you have to "one-shot" them twice or even thrice, unless you play the long game and cut all their vitality. It took me hours to get the hang of the parry timing in LoP, even though I have beaten Sekiro 31 times. And against Laxa's phase 2 I just gave up and decided to tank her flurries with block. I think it would have worked even better if I had upgraded guard regain more. I actually don't remember if you can reset the P-Organ but it would be stupid if you can't. But I try to avoid respeccing in the middle of a run in Soulslike. Well, in any game tbh. It messes with the muscle memory.
The 2 most beautiful games every built and lucky are those who have learned and mastered to play these 2 instruments. Disclaimer: I have platinumed both games along with Bloodborne that tops my list.
Sekiro's timing is waaaaaaay more generous. It's a tighter window for Lies of P. When I'm looking at your Sekiro footage I'm really shocked they're giving you the parry. I played both games and loved them both, but this really shows how much easier Sekiro is in the parrying.
Superb video, show clearly the differences between the two, and why if you came from one to the other, you generally struggle a lot at the beginning, because they have two totally different approches to the parry Coming from Sekiro to Lies of P, I found very hard to adapt to its parry timing, but I eventually succedeed 😅
Shortly after achieving a platinum trophy in Lies of P, I began playing Sekiro, and for the first two hours, I was simply getting hit by EVERY enemy attack, lol
Thank you. We need videos like this. It was only by reading the comments that I learned that parry timings can depend on the frame rate. Interesting, isn't it? Since I played Sekiro at 60 fps, and lie P at 120 fps. Even in Sekiro, I stood in block and pressed the block button, and in lie P I tried to retrain myself not to hold block, although while holding I parried some attacks.
I thought i was going to be amazing in this game, but the parry timing is so different from Sekiro's that it was annoying even. But once i got the parrying down, it felt so good in Lies of P
Yeah, I was confused about the parry window in sekiro until I realised you’re supposed to lift before the attack lands not press when the attack lands. 😂
With sekiro, you can actually see the enemy’s movement before they swing the sword. In LOP, the attacks are instantaneous and you can’t see the movement, making you rely on sole rythm.
What you say is because in sekiro attacks are more predictable, what makes it easier to parry. In LOP enemies are more erratic and harder to predict, and they have lots of delayed attacks, so it makes it more difficult to parry.
Might be an oddity here but for the life me i didnt get sekiro or its parry timing. Dropped it at the first real boss. Lies of P on the other hand was easier than ds3 and ds3 is my favourite fromsoft game. already on the new game+ run for LoP and still have no clue how people found this difficult compared to pontiff,dancer,capra,O&S.
@@teyock9841 no. You cant roll unless you press the button twice.on top of that you need an skill tree update just to dodge twice in a row and thats all. Every souls game you can spam roll until you dont have stamina.
imo sekiro's is better because its more polished and feels smoother, but neowiz's first attempt at a souls like with a sekiro parry system is still awesome, and lies of p's parry isnt bad by any means. I still prefer the smoothness and accuracy that sekiro has.
They're not the same thing Sekiro is deflecting, not parrying/blocking because you're meeting your opponents attacks halfway by swinging your sword just like in a movie or anime action scenes. That's why you also deal posture damage. You can block but it's not recommended. Lies of P is parrying/bracing to negate the impact/damage of your opponents.
Yup and that's a better way to think about it but for the sake of simplicity I used them interchangeably because that's how most people will view them both and thus making the video easier to find.
Nice video, but still Sekiro fills better as a separate challenge, because in Sekiro you should expect way more option in the battle - default parry, then jump, Mikiri, some features with your artificial limb, the same works with the enemies in Sekiro. Some attacks can be dodged ONLY by jumping or dashing, and etc. You will not see so many options in the Lies of P (in LP mostly you just deciding parry or dash)
I just finished Lies of P as my first ever souls-like game, i absolutely loved it and want to try another one now, currently torn between sekiro or bloodborne. Considering elden ring and DS3 but im just not as big a fan of the themes of those games.
You are forced to memorize in Sekiro also. That’s why people die over and over because each time they learn the bosses patterns, and deflect windows. It’s the same shit, just different parry frames.
I always thought that the thing that made Sekiro so much easier was that it’s parry on press, where in er, DS, BB, etc, it’s parry/dodge on RELEASE, so it only starts when your thumb leaves the button and sekiro it parries as soon as you press it. Maybe the same here?
@@Sid-qj3ec prob true, BB is my least played souls game… everytime I start It I decide the remaster gotta be around the corner and want my full first run to be in 4k 60fps 😢 when I play it now all I see is the ps3 graphics and it kinda sullies the beauty of it.
"in er, DS, BB, etc, it’s parry/dodge on RELEASE" No it isn't. Parry and BB's gunshot/parry happen on press. You can easily test this by just holding the appropriate button and seeing that the parry clearly happens even though you never let go of the button. What makes Sekiro different is that the parry can happen while you're in a reaction animation, the parry lasts a lot longer (about half a second), and the parry continues to work even if you release the parry button slightly early. And of course that Sekiro's parry turns into a regular "hold guard" if you do it too early and hold the button.
@@TheMisterGuy yeah I could have phrased it better, I was really referring the “on release” to the souls dodging and “parry” for BB, but I was wrong and misrememberering BB like I said in the last comment. But yeah you put it much better.
I actually just finished Lies of P and decided to play Sekiro again (I did finish it like 4 years ago) and It was so much harder to parry attacks for some reason, but after some testing I understood that it is actually way more forgiving than in Lies of P, u may (and need)to press parry way earlier and the parry window is quite bigger. However I was so used to LoP timing and actually pressing parry when the attack lands (which is in my opinion feels and works way more natural) that it was quite a problem for a couple of hours xd. All in all I kinda find parry system in LoP better, but the game overall wasn't that hard even tho I am not a very hardcore player.
yeah i went from sekiro to lies of p and that was fk*ng hard to timing the parry
I did the opposite. I played the hell out of Lies of P and got used to the tight parry window. When I went to Sekiro, thinking it'd be the same, it threw me off at how the timing was a few frames different. Like I thought, "Oh, I need to parry Genichiro as soon as his sword is near me," but I got slashed instead. It took me a while to get used to Sekiro parrying, but I was able to do it and beat the game.
Kinda crazy how just a slight difference in timing can make or break your combat flow
@@MrTaikobo sekiro parry is like playing an instrument imo
Just feel the beat
But in lop i just can't get it :DDD
@ImNa0405 I had heard that Sekiro's parrying is more in line with a flow of combat, while LoP is disjointed. I can definitely see what you mean by it being like playing an instrument. There's a certain tempo you can feel when you fight against bosses like Genichiro with clashes, parrying his diagnol slash, when to use your umbrella during his flurry combo, there's some room for improv.
Lies of P is more about nailing those specific moments, and you can immediately tell when you're preemptive or late because of chip damage or even getting stunlocked into a deadly combo. It's more demanding and punishing, but when you master Lies of P...holy shit do you feel amazing lol
@@MrTaikobo absolutely amazing feeling mastering lop
I saw that on other player videos
That's why i decided to play lop after beating sekiro
And i'm trying to master it
I've just beaten the chapter 8 boss
Still learning the two dragons sword technique
@@MrTaikoboboth games suck
I completed Sekiro and Started Lies of P now, but nothing will ever come close to Sekiro's satisfying Sword Clashing Parry Noises🔥
The noises are unbeatable for sure
Even the combat in Sekiro is the best for me :)
Lies of p combat is way better
@@Hunt9-qb1ifnot at all.
The reason why games shouldn't skim budget for fire sound design
I think i understand why sekiro's deflect timing is slightly earlier. Think it's just mainly to make the deflect animation look less choppy. If the timing is late like Lies of P, wolf's arm might feel like it kind of teleports to deflect the attack. Whereas it having a windup allows for a more gradual movement making the deflect animation look more natural.
Yeah makes sense, in real life if you wait until you get hit before you decide to parry it's not gonna go well
It’s to make the game easier, no need to say some random shit
Sekiro’s deflect timing is easier because it gives you more frames. I think Sekiro is like 16 frames parry window while lies of p is 8 frames.
@@slycooper2bandofthieves116 Close, Sekiro has 12 Lies of P has 8
@@xxxVideosaregoatedit's an opinion on the internet, no need to sound like a retard if you don't agree with it.
Cool breakdown. The lies of P parry window is Rooooough for sure. But feels so good when you hit it just right.
I don't think it's rough, just different. Once you get a feel for the timing it feels the same or similar difficulty wise imo
@@hybridpsychothe parry window is smaller in lies of p
Look at it as a perfect block. Hold the button.
It's def harder than Sekiro IMHO. Bu t that may be because I played TF out of sekiro and I'm only in my 2nd playthrough of Lies of P.
Still, I think Lies of P has the best parry in any soulslike/soulsborne game.
@@hybridpsycho it definitely requires a lot more skill. You can essentially rely on spamming block in Sekiro, which you absolutely cannot do in LoP.
parrying timing in lies of p is a little bit weird. the reason is the characters have unnatural swing or stab movements you cant time it unless you memorize it. at the beginning of the game I initially thought that the enemies attack with mid motion pauses etc because they are malfunctioning puppets. but almost all enemies attack with mid motion hesi-pause that feels way unnatural, dont make sense in physics.
Yeah, if the parry timings were reversed between the games I'd forgive it. Sekiro has better animations than Lies so we'd be better off.
Most of the puppets with the pauses in the attacks are supposed to be interpreted as glitches I think for the "in-game" reason, but for sure that's just the developers contextualizing the long wind up animations for attacks. Like how the Police boss puppet spins his arms before slamming down the attack. It's the same thing Elden Ring and Sekiro already did with the delayed attacks, but better contextualized imo. Not that it needs very much contextualizing tbh, it makes sense for enemies to delay attacks to catch the player off guard, and they still work with a specific rhythm so you can still memorize them and it's not unfair. People complain about delayed attacks in newer fromsoft games but having recently played Dark Souls 1 and 2 and steamrolling most of the bosses I can say for sure it's more fun to have to learn the timings than just follow a very obviously telegraphed animation.
That's kinda the point though to surprise you. In sekiro you have plenty enemies that for example jump into the air and linger just that quarter of second too long there. If you could just reaction-parry every move in the game it would get boring I guess.
@@Diegoshadow85 nah in sekiro enemies feint "before" the swing, hangs in air etc. when they start swinging the weapon, it continues naturally without interruption. in lies of p enemies hesi mid swing which is weird. take this video for instance. laxasia (with a big weapon which expected generate momentum when swung above shoulder) starts swinging motion above shoulder but stops when that big ass weapon reaches ground, then surprisingly starts an upwards motion attack. that does not make sense compared to the similar attacks of the monk from sekiro.
@@drzitbag06 I'll just say it makes the same amount of sense for an enemy to hang in the air as it does to hold mid swing (which I haven't seen evidence of anyway, afaik enemies only hold before the swing animation)
The Lies of P parry bothers me so much because it's clearly inspired by Sekiro's with the big bright flash of sparks when you get it just right, but it lacks the contextual animations that make Wolf's parries look so cool. His sword actually deflects to the side in the direction he throws the enemy's attack, while Pinocchio just holds every weapon the same way in front of his face.
Youre so right
I never realised why sekiro feels better
That's because in Lies of P it's not a deflect, it's a perfect block, blocking is not the same as deflecting, gameplay wise this is splitting hairs I know, but if you want to compare realism with animations, then you need to consider the actual terms the games use and what it actually is the character is doing
Honestly I'm so focused on the parry timing I'm not looking at the animation
If its inspired by it it has to be the exact same! right?
The one thing that truly bothers me about Lies is that I feel like I'm fighting Elden Ring's Margit, with near every single enemy. The delays, the weird and snappy animations, it gets downright exhausting to play after a while. Now I'd like to see a game where the enemy tries that and you can just stab them to end them right then and there.
Kinda yes for me too, but when i get used to it it was ok. But what i didnt expect is that i went and started another Elden Ring playthrough as soon as i finished Lies of P, and i was infuriated at first with the bosses, felt like i am fighting without options except dodge and attack. Offcourse i got used back to ER and ultimatively i like combat and all in ER more, but i would wish that parry with any weapon like in Lies of P would become standard in souls games and also that consumables would be as usefull in other souls games.
Btw, i think Margit style delayed attacks will unfortunately become the staple of souls games in the future, i mean FromSoftware started first with it in Elden Ring.
P.S: ..also, Radagon's one delayed followup attack on hamer smash that can happen but it can completely not happen and you do not know unless you commit to counter attack or dodge ( in the wrong direction so you get clipped ) is really bad game design and should be patched out.
@@DreamskyDance Their attempts at catching us veterans out after more than a decade of Souls. I'd just rather it stay in *one* game, not every game following it. Or, indeed, let me counter their delays to punish them in return.
@DreamskyDance delayed attacks is not a new thing that Elden Ring started. Sekiro had them, Dark Souls 2 has them, and i don't remember but I think 3 did as well. Elden Ring just did it alot more than usual. Also Radagons attack isn't bad game design, and does not need patched, stop crying. Commit or dodge, that's the choices, he rarely does that to catch you off guard, same with almost every single other boss. Play the game enough times or fight them enough and they start pulling out new moves.
@@DreamskyDance with elden ring you're supposed to use the delay to get hits in or to reposition, especially with margit, also if you where talking about radagon's grab you can counter both the short and extra delayed version by just moving away, prepare to dodge the short version, if the short version doesn't happen than you just run further and prepare for the extra delay.
The enemies with the wrecking-ball hands in Chapter 9 of Lies of P are basically like that, they take a calendar year to wind up their attack and you can just kill them before they even get the chance to swing.
This is a superb video man and just helped me grasp Sekiro syetem in a few minutes.
Was doing the Lies of P perfect parry and failing miserably. You just tap it a second before and that beautiful Katana parries like a beauty...
Thank you for doing this video. I put away sekiro because I couldn’t parry. I watched this last week, and since then I’ve beaten Genichiro and the ape. And I had a blast. It finally clicked for me. Thank you!
Update: I’m on the final boss now, and I’ve had the best time ever with this game. I studied from 18-32 seconds on this video. This section was everything for me. Thank you so much again.
Was gonna ask how's isshin lol
@@alakazoom87 so isshin was the worst. He took me weeks of trying. I was not one of those guys that beat him easily. I finally memorized his patterns and spent the week destroying him lol. I just kept going back to him and replaying on repeat. Three things I learned was the genichiro fight was throwing my cadence off. So I really had to step back and think differently with isshin. After that I mortal bladed him to death for the first phase. Learned to dash under him in his second phase, and learned to time my lightning repels on the third phase.
I wish genichiro wasn’t part of the fight. Isshin would have been much much easier. IMO
@Redlist99 ya he's super hard. There's no secret meta weapon and build you can grind to beat him... unlike elden ring. Sekiro is a legit get good game.. I love and hate it!
Fromsoftware usually has a delay from your input, since the characters has to do an animation windup to actually do whatever you told the characyer to do. In Sekiro, the animation is really, really fast, almost instant, but it is still there. In Lies of P seems that the effect of the parry instantly comes in at the same time that the animation plays out, but it last for fewer frames to account for that.
Yeah it seems that way, but it’s still slightly before the attack lands. You can see it in this video with the slow mo.
Now Elden ring has you wait for 2 to 3 business days after you press the button.
Sekiro parry is more natural and intuitive since the timing is before the hit, like in real life you cover you face from something before it hit you. In lies of p is more like a perfect shield in smash bros (not counting ultimate), and keeping the boton pressed is kinda weird. But hey, they needed to make a little different the combat.
Actually, there is a very simple reason, in Sekiro, attacks hang in the air for a short time, the time given to you to block is mostly the time while the weapon is swinging. In Lies Of P, the gun stays in the air for a long time and is suddenly thrown away. It seems like the producers want us to memorize the swing moment of the gun and press the button accordingly. Just like playing Piano Tiles, you have to press it at the right time, on the contrary in Sekiro, you have to wait for the weapon to swing and press it when you see it swinging. I think this is the main difference
Bro, thank you. My first soulslike game is Lies of P and I trained a lot to get good on parry because of the Two Dragons Sword, which is my favorite weapon. Recently I tried Sekiro because everyone says the game is parry-based and I just dropped because I couldnt parry like I do on LoP. Now I know that the parry window is totally different, so maybe I'll try Sekiro again.
with sekiro you're supposed to hold the button, parring too early is much better than doing it too late.
@@Ghorda9 With Sekiro you tap the button, it's with LoP that you hold the button
@@drifter2928 you lose parry frames when you let go of the button, holding the button a little early and not letting go until it collides will give you more consistent perfect deflects. The only exception is with thrusts and certain deflectable perilous attacks.
@@drifter2928 i haven't played LoP, but i have played Sekiro a few times, people have even released videos about this.
@@Ghorda9 I've played Sekiro and LoP. You just tap it with Sekiro, I know that you should hold it for a bit in LoP because, again, I've played it. To back my point, here's this from the Sekiro wiki:
*"To deflect an enemy attack simply tap the Guard button (L1/LB) as an attack is coming;* this negates all damage from most attacks, builds up the enemies Posture gauge by a significant amount, and staggers most enemies briefly, allowing you a small window to counter attack."
Also, here's a video explaining why it's better to hold the guard button in LoP (In the video, the guy even says that it's different to how you tap the block button in Sekiro):
ua-cam.com/video/qkzwPwmoZ2c/v-deo.htmlsi=qGBVWGmZLbu-pcJn
Nice video!
Recently I finished Lies of P and felt the parry system is so good, not in a single moment I thought it was odd and all my mistakes were cleary MY mistakes with timing. So I tried Sekiro again after years, just to see if it is similar and like your video shows... it isn't. Sekiro's parry needs to be done early, unlike Lies of P parry that you press when the animation hits you.
FOR ME it feels more natural the way Lies of P handle the parry. After playing Sekiro again, I only beat Genichiro easily because I still remember his patterns, but it feels like there is no way to react, you have to learn his patterns, otherwise you'll get hit.
By "parrying", you have to first raise your sword. You can't do that instantly
@@twrk139 I know it's not like in real life, Sekiro did in a more realistic way, but for a video game it felt more comfortable (for me) parrying in Lies of P. It's more natural to react when u see the animation hitting you. The difference for me is that Lies of P accomplishments you for reacting at right time and Sekiro wants you to learn the enemies move sets.
@@BasicLand-Swamp when the parry is instantaneous, you don't have to anticipate anything, as you can just press the parry exactly when the sword tags you. Of course its more "comfortable", you just tap the button when the sword connects with your body. Not "natural", but arcadeyfied. (I'm not saying it's a bad thing)
@@twrk139it’s a video game my guy 😂
Right, but you’re not actually using a weapon, you’re pressing a button on a controller (can be done in less than a second). Lies of P plays into the gameplay rhythm rather than shoehorning realism.
Same reason why games quit trying startup animations for walking, slow turnaround animations, realistic movement speeds. Because there’s no mind->body->environment pipeline, it’s just mind->game. Realism feels bad because games aren’t realistic. That’s better suited for VR titles where you’re actually using your body. There it feels natural.
Thank you so much for this video . Just beat nameless puppet . All the time I was trying to parry like sekiro
Such a champ! Thanks. No wonder I, a sekiro vet, am struggling with LOP parries now
Sekiro's parry has a longer window that Lies of P from my experience. I feel Sekiro's parry is best slightly earlier, while Lies of P really aims to be just before the attack hits. Personally coming back to Sekiro I think the parry is very generous, and I do honestly prefer Lies of P's parry timings more, since I think they are more reasonable and I like the slight difficulty to it (but it would be hell during no Kuro's charm). Though, I do like Sekiro more overall still. I'd love to see a mod for Sekiro that replaces normal deflect windows with Lies of P's timings
Try LMTSR mod. You will find out that sekiro's parry window not enough.
Sekiro's parry window IS more generous because it's the central mechanic of the game. It would be really unbalanced if it was smaller
@@osamb1e658 actually I was planning on doing Jidao 2.1 after doing my NG4+ run for fun. Maybe I’ll do LMTSR after that. Either way I’ll try to come back and give my opinion afterwards
You are literally commenting exactly what the video is describing. Why?
@@apeer8999 because that's how npc works
i will definitely be playing both of their sequels. Lies of P I just finished and it’s atmosphere and music and setting is just awesome. Sekiro is even a level above all that and is the best game i have ever played. Keep these kind of games coming !
I have just finished NG+ Lies of P, Is Sekiro harder that it? I want to try it because I loved LOP but I hate being stuck for long at a boss.
The parrying in Lies of P makes me cry.
The closer you get to actually parrying, the closer you get to just failing and getting combo'ed.
Ill be the technical knowledge guy (mainly on sekiro):
*some explanation on the terms i use:
Guard - blocking stance
Entering guard - deflect animation
Air - relevant to sekiro, and is its own state
Sprint - fast run which requires held down dashing key, the dash itself is NOT a sprint state
Ill also call s as "frames", for convenience sake
Sekiro deflect frames all start from frame 0, that means as soon as you enter the guard animation, you already have deflect frames (Ill elaborate on amount of frames for parries in just a bit). Transition to idle happens after you get all the frames in majority of cases.
Lies of p also has instant frames, what changes, however, is that you enter idle state transition before you get all frames if you do not hold.
Lies of p has 8 deflect frames, i think two dragons sword has more than that.
Sekiro has 12 frames on basic entry into guard state, 12 frames for air deflects (but you do not get any frames on landing), and 24 frames on sprint (you will only get that much during sprint state, dashing and entering guard will only trigger 12).
Sekiro dodging has 12 frames on backward, left, and right.
Front dodge has 18 frames.
All 4 trigger invincibility from frame 0, so s are instant.
Some characteristics between the 2 games:
Sekiro deflecting has "stages", i dont think lies of p has that and if it does, then it definetly works differently on the technical side compared to sekiro's for reasons explained below...
"Stage" indicates how many deflect frames your next input will have.
Stage 1 - 12 frames
Stage 2 - 6 frames
Stage 3 - 4 frames
Stage 4 - 0 frames
Stages is why spam blocking in sekiro doesnt work, as you end up having no frames by the 4th consecutive guard.
Stages is also why you may struggle to deflect consecutive attacks, and why one mind/floating passage need tech (or alternatively the use of prosthetics or positioning) to deal with.
If youve read this far, then please take LoP information with a grain of salt, as there is no direct way of viewing frame data for that game and thus we either rely on developer's reply, hearsay, or data mining (which would help us in figuring out thing beyond frames for deflecting).
As for sekiro data, im of most certainty that it is correct, as we have the means to view that game's frame data (as well as actual player logic).
If youre wondering how i know this, i learnt all this from my time of making sekiro mods, as well as talking with modders about this (i have also been working on a "fix" to stages messing up consecutive deflects).
Ps: and for the love of god, do NOT use fextra wiki as a source, as it can spread misinformation, and is the culprid of why people still say sekiro has 30 frames (There is also sketchy shit that the guy does to boost his page, so its just its own kind of mess).
I haven't play Sekiro yet, but i didn't enjoy Lies of P parry - I couldn't get to the consistency that would allow me to relay on it, and don't use dodge most of the time. Especially since many attacks followed my movement and I had to parry something even I thought I was on the back of the foe. I have to play Sakiro one day and see if it will be more intuitive for me.
Basically sekiro just works better. Lop feels disjointed, inconsistent, and slot more frustrating. Fights in sekiro feel like a dance. Lop feels like the enemy is trying but ur stepping on toes
Hard disagree. I like Lies of P's timing more.
@@EddieTheBunny💯
Nah. You just failed to adjust to new mechanics you weren't familiar with.
I started with lies of p then went to sekrio and I dog walked nearly boss I encountered
@@sircartier2723 you dog walked it cos the parry system just works. Better.
Sekiro parry's windows feels perfecto, and if you feel like its too easy ( i dont think so), you can do the run without the talisman. It's just perfect
Sekiro is very easy
I liked Lies of P parry more personally. Feels more natural to click when the attack happens, rather than doing it before.
the thing is it still doesn't work right exactly when the attack happens. That's the biggest frustration for me (besides the cringe animations.) I'm all for stricter timings and teleporting block animations, but then you have to allow the player to parry right on time as the attack beat.
In actuality the parry window still definitely closes RIGHT before the landing of attacks so that for example in long chain attacks even if memorize the timing of attacks you still have to do this mental gymnastics in your brain to press block just off beat to the attack sound and it's sooo annoying
@@fattestallenalive7148 bro really said cringe animations 💀💀💀
@@fattestallenalive7148 yes it happens when the attack hits you that's why is perfect block.
Nothing beats Sekiro parry
I haven't played sekiro yet but I just finished Lies of P and I loved the parry system. The game rewards you for aggressive gameplay and for playing right since you break their stance the more you parry. I loved it.
On other thing I’d like to add is that Sekiro almost exclusively has enemies that attack you with a blade, which just feels better to parry imo.
In Lies of P there are so many enemies that use there fists or some other deformed bodypart as their weapon which makes it kinda weird to know when the blow lands.
I hate parrying in lies of p. I almost never used it because it felt a bit jank.
It isn’t jank. It’s extremely polished, and tight. Works perfectly if timed properly.
Parry It's so polished that the slightest mistake penalizes you, that's why it seems so unfair
In reality though lies of p isn't a parry. You're not deflecting a swing part way through it's arc to hit you. You're blocking an attack directly at the end of it's swing as it hits you
It's not jank, its just way more difficult to time it right
@@axelc3882 just hold the button down so you block if you're too early, you also get from parry frames when you hold the button down
Lies of P parry window is tighter, but that's not what makes it hard, far from it, most likely you'd die from missing a parry completely rather than parrying too early.
The hard thing with lies of p is that the boss goes from "holding" their attack to smacking you in the face in a very short time(literal unreactable speed), essentially, you have to parry BEFORE the swing is actually coming your way which is incredibly unintuitive and requires brute memorizations of timings.
But the real difference between the two parries is how wolf reacts after a parry where he swings his sword left or right, that shit is clean af.
I can only think of Nameless Puppet for the scenario you're giving and 1.3.0.0 fixed that issue so I can't think of any attacks where that happens. I can think of plenty for Sekiro though. Isshin alone has attacks that are just complete memorization. It's like half his moves.
This is what i noticed too, but thats expected from non fromsoft soulslikes. every one ive played makes that mistake and don't give animations the time and care they need so the player isnt given a fair chance. it took multiple souls for From to get it down too. There will always be moves From throws in that you cant react but in general getting hit/killed feels a lot fairer than other soulslikes, not to mention an unreactable move in From games usually isnt as devastating as it is in other soulslikes where a hit is more punishing in those games.
You definitely could react to some in P too but from my experience it was clear the devs did it on accident more than intentionally.
Seeing the uploaders responses to other comments i can tell he was salty in sekiro which explains his response here 🤭
@@BBQcheese not really but ok
@@EddieTheBunny delulu.. plain n simple
@@petercottantail7850 To be fair I think LoP CAN do amazing telegraphing/animations, the scrapped watchman has some masterfully done moves.
But the issue is that the only mode of difficulty they know is speed. Like sure if you make the enemies 50% faster the game will be harder, not necessarily better.
I played sekiro right before lies of p and I had a terrible time getting used to lies of p parrying
no wonder I keep getting my ass handed to me in sekiro after completing lies of p with "relative ease" (laxasia and NP done under 10 attempts, it was my first soulslike too).
this video is going to help.
Now I wonder how the Deflecting Hardtear works in Elden Ring, compared to Lies of P
actually in backthen fromsoftware already did that on old tenchu game the parry timming must really" perfect
Late to the party but I can't believe people who played Lies of P after Sekiro had a hard time adjusting to parrying (I'm people). But seriously, I think even of you master parrying in Lies of P, dodge-rolling is still better as the go-to move, the same way parry is the go-to mechanic vs step-dodging in Sekiro. Both games are nice though but I realized any similar game that has a stamina bar isn't for me lol.
Despite the differences in gameplay, playing either one improves your overall parry timing with the other. At least that’s my experience. I haven’t played Sekiro in a while so when I completed Lies of P, I replayed Sekiro again and didn’t feel any sort of rustiness.
You can absolutely time Sekiro deflects like in Lies of P. It does work on impact (and prior to impact, like you’re showing, up to 12 frames). I’ve found it actually works even slightly later to impact as well. So, you must just be doing it too late on your Corrupted Monk example. Everything else is spot on.
Another thing that should be noted is you can spam-tap deflect in Sekiro, with the caveat that the active frames reduce from the standard 12 the more it’s spammed. In Lies of P, you only get one chance to get your perfect guard timing right; spam tapping does not work (even twice; i.e., trying to correct a mistimed perfect guard by tapping again).
spam tapping in sekiro is always worse than just holding the button, the frames only last as long as you hold the button down or the window ends.
@@Ghorda9 That’s not true. Whether you tap or hold in Sekiro, it is consistently 12 frames. I already covered why spam tapping is something you should never do.
remove kuro's charm and do deflect tapping. u will witness true horror.
LoP blocking is ez. spam tap, ez block.
@@jporob You can’t spam perfect guard in LoP. You get one opportunity to perfect guard; if mistimed, and you attempt to press it again in short succession, it will not work. Sekiro’s deflect is more forgiving in this regard, even without Kuro’s Charm.
That's why lies of P parry felt so off to me
I think something that gets overlooked when comparing the two games is that Sekiro expects you to try to deflect everything and punishes you for blocking whereas Lies of P incentivizes perfect guard but makes just blocking perfectly viable as well because of the regain mechanic. You can make it through most fights just blocking in Lies of P, the perfect guard is more of a risky move that gives you an extra advantage. I thought it would be more required to master it because of the fury attacks but most of those can just be outspaced/sprinted around. That said getting a perfect guard is very satisfying and effective when you pull it off.
It's more about the animation timing and less about the button pressing
Exactly, Sekiro raises the blade which takes time, which means the player has to take the couple milliseconds into account.
Which in return makes Sekiros system much more satisfying to look at since the animations actually add up.
@@stormdivision617 yeah in lies of p when you parry a fast flurry like the one that laxasia has it looks like you just block .
Vsync and input latency takes a major role here also. Vsync is forced in Sekiro with a 60fps cap on top, you have to take that into account
Isn't that the same case with lies of p?granted he's playing on the same console as shown here?
@@Aetumn12 he could be playing on the pc. No way to know just by looking at the controller
The thing is that sekiro, while it has an easier parry mechanic it also has harder moves to deflect. Enemies dont have strong telegraph attacks so you need to either learn their whole moveset or simply spam deflect.
Lies of P while it has a smaller and harder deflect mechanic makes up for It by having enemies with wind ups and predictable attacks and patterns. If you try to play sekiro with lies of P parry frames, the game will be unplayable but if you play lies of p with sekiro deflect it will be a cake walk
Parry timing in LoP feels weird and unintuitive to me. Its not just the parry though, the design of the enemies and movesets dont do it any favors. I enjoyed LoP, but it was an area of the hame that was disappointing to me.
Personally i tried Sekiro and gave up very early because i am very very bad at parrying and the game was simply insurmauntable without using it.
I had problems with getting parry right in Lies of P but there i actually managed to learn it and i finished the game, for me parry timings in Lies of P seemed a lot more logical and easier to hit than in Sekiro.
I've even considered giving Sekiro another try after Lies of P, because the game actually thaught me that i infact can parry in games and that my reaction time isnt too slow for parrying.
So idk, maybe my feel for timings and rythm clashes hard with Sekiro's timings and rythm but Lies of P timings feel more natural to me.
Sekiros system relies hard on also looking at your character and the enemy simultaneously. (At least in the beginning until you have the timing down)
Sekiros blade simply isn’t up if you’d press the parry when the blow lands, that’s why you press just before to give Sekiro time to raise his blade otherwise the animations would be incoherent and thus would feel off.
Sekiro system is completely logical when you accept the fact that parrying isn’t something that Sekiro can do instantly but he actually needs some time to get into position.
@@stormdivision617 ...hmm...never thought about it, never even looked at Sekiro as you said.
My thought process when in combant and about to parry was : ..oh he is gonna hit me...its comming..its comming..not yet..comming closer..now..* click *.. shit i got hit ...
I'll try it, well now i am playing some other game, ut after that i am returning to Sekiro to at least try your advice. I didnt go far in the game, i stopped at some mini boss drunk guy with giant sword that spits poison now and then.
Thnx man, i never even thought to take notice of my character as well in combat ... maybe this tips will help XD
@@DreamskyDance that's actually false, in sekiro you just need to parry sooner than you think you need to and just hold the button down, you don't get the full frames if you just tap it. Also the parry window starts as soon as you touch the button.
@@DreamskyDance also the drunkard it's actually better to sprint/dodge around his attacks because he never blocks and his attacks are too infrequent to build up posture off parries alone.
The problem with Lies Of P is the unreadable attacks, they have no wind up yet require a split second to parry.
Its a good game but the combat is flawed.
That's why I love difficult games with patterns like sekiro, I hate artificial difficulty with random BS attacks like nioh or elden ring
Most accurate demo of parry window
I have the opposite problem, I just Platinumed Lies and went to Sekiro, I’m getting destroyed even though I beat Sekiro first lol.
Good breakdown, thank you 🙏🏻
So for Sekiro The parry happens before the atack lands, thats odd, seems to me that the parry should happen when you get the hit. Looks like the 'problem'' with Lies of P parry is that they did it right but everyone wants it like Sekiro.
Highly agree - even though sekiro is my favorite game ever
Well I could be wrong but I think the main thing being here is that for a successful single parry, your parry window timing in Sekiro is actually quite lenient. However, if you spam parry- each time you spam without actually deflecting, the window gets decreased.
just because in LoP the parry window is on the moment when the attacks lands on you doesn't make it "right". "Right" is an objective term that isn't applicable in something like this. In Sekiro, the parry window being before the attack lands and much more open makes the game a lot more comfortable to play, more intuitive and flow better.
@@renanleandro5914 " seems to me that...."its not objective at all.
@@renanleandro5914 generous parry window may make the game easier and more comfortable, but it has nothing to do with being intuitive or fluid. it's just your feeling.
Before pointing it out to others, I think need to be careful yourself first about objective terminology.
Maaan thank you so much for explaining this, helps a ton!
Honestly, in Sekiro, I always have to tell myself to parry slightly earlier than when the attack lands, which is kinda weird. The parry timing of lies of p makes much more sense, I just wish it was more generous
Sekiro makes more sense if you realize that parry also is an animation and you need to get your guard up first like you would actually do IRL.
@@TheDoolExactly parrying doesn’t happen instantly, you kinda have to ‘get in position’. Thats why Sekiros system feels right, it’s coherent with what the player would expect. Its coherent with what the player sees, which is Sekiro getting in Position upon pressing LB, so you instinctively give Sekiro that extra more time to fully get his guard up when the blow lands.
Its seriously underestimated that the parry system not only needs to feel right but to also look right and thats why Sekiros system is superior imo.
@@TheDoolso they are adding superfluous animation for the sake of realism? I'd rather have snappy controls than deal with delayed animations just to be realistic.
@@Noctis37 everything in almost every videogame has startup frames, i dont see how its a big deal
@@TheDool yes, otherwise something like a fighting game would be terribly unbalance without it. But you know what else would be terrible? Giving basic movements a start up animation. When i press a button to move forward, i expect the character to move forward immediately. There's a reason why I still prefer RE4 over the Remake, also why I can't stand playing RDR2 cause of its tedious and unnecessary animations.
Great video sir. If you have played thymesia I believe the parry window is similar to Lies of P
Sekiro felt so natural to me because I take the animation and attack in mind that I press for Wolf to put the sword up, however in Lies of P you have to forget and disconnect yourself from the animations and only focus on click when the attack hits
This is the best video to show the player who came from Lies of P or Sekiro.
And here I am playing both at the same time 💀
Thank you this what I've been looking for, I was trying to find a video of how the timing of the parry looks like in Sekiro. I've been trying to parry attacks like LoP (which I haven't played). So I keep taking hits and dying.
Thanks for the explanation and showing the difference between them. I have never played Sekiro, I played bloodborne and enjoyed it.....but lies of P feels like the way a "parry" would happen, as the attack hits the force needs "deflecting". I love everything about the lies of P combat, I gelled so much with it that I was able to beat the nameless puppet third try. I am on my second playthrough and I'm blown away with Neowiz, I seriously cannot believe how amazing this game is and now I know why people say "the parry window is too small", but I disagree it's perfect. The delayed attacks are rough but it has made me play with patience and then aggression. The new weapon kind of destroys.
Im the other way around. I feel sekiro has great "parry" feeling. For real Life parry you are supposed to meet the attack half way. "Just when it lands" would be bracing on guard
@@vittocrazi true, I am going to grab Sekiro because if it is like P, I'll get the timing down. It seems like the dancer fight is every fight in Sekiro though.
I think in lies of P once you press block the animation has to finish before you can parry so you need to press like 0.5 sec early while on sekiro its so quick that it feels like the arm teleports to block move and there's no animation
so ik lies of p is "harder" but since I have good reflexes I find the idea of parrying right as the attack is hitting much more intuitive.
It’s before the attack, not as the attack is landing. It’s just very tight, which makes it seem as though you’re pressing L1/LB at the moment of impact.
I tought its just a controller delay when trying to parry in sekiro but i was wrong.
In sekiro you have less time to react because you need to hit parry just before the attack start to come. In lies of p your brain have time to understand that the sword is coming and you just wait to react
Never played any souls game before but im close to finishing lies of p, next im probably gonna get elden ring then maybe sekiro after that
same as me, just beat elden ring and i hope to play sekiro soon
Start with Dark Souls (Demon Souls if you have a PS5 or OK with emulation). Believe me, it will be a much better overall experience when you play Elden Ring as the last one .
Get through sekiro last, the game's combat system is too good, and playing the rest of the souls-games will be unpleasant
My first Soulslike was Sekiro, so everything since has been a letdown. Once you fall in love with that combat system there is no beating it.
That's why I'm having a hard time mastering that party window.
For everyone struggling with LoP parry, here’s a quick tip that worked for me: remap the block button to triangle/Y, it’ll feel unnatural at first I know, but when the timing is so strict and precise, it was easier for me to react with my thumb on a frontal press rather than with my index on a down press. Only after this change I was able to beat Laxasia
Yea FromSoft probably had a lot of in-house play tests and they made their parry system the way we have it today for good reason, it simply feels better this way. It’s much more coherent with what the player sees and thus just feels right although it technically isn’t. Such gameplay mechanics truly live off of their feel and Sekiro nailed it.
I started Lies of P 2 days ago and while it is an excellent Souls-Like, probably the best there is, the parry system just doesn’t feel good most of the time. I mean I am aware that you can get used to it, just like you can with anything else, but I am still certain it can never surpass Sekiros system in terms of satisfaction. That’s the hard truth imo.
Lies of P makes the mistake of gimping your character. For example you only have 1 dodge initially (and before the patch you had to unlock it, was even worse).
Dont get me wrong Lies of P is a very good game, but now we have a huge number of Soulslikes and i am recommending to other people other easier games that your knowledge skills (Soulslike Fundamentals) is more transferable.
Anyway in Lies of P most of the time its better to dart in and dart out, because many enemies have a 3-hit combo or more.
The posture system is so rewarding in Sekiro, making every parry more satisfying because you know they work towards "one-shotting" the boss. Granted, you have to "one-shot" them twice or even thrice, unless you play the long game and cut all their vitality.
It took me hours to get the hang of the parry timing in LoP, even though I have beaten Sekiro 31 times. And against Laxa's phase 2 I just gave up and decided to tank her flurries with block. I think it would have worked even better if I had upgraded guard regain more. I actually don't remember if you can reset the P-Organ but it would be stupid if you can't. But I try to avoid respeccing in the middle of a run in Soulslike. Well, in any game tbh. It messes with the muscle memory.
The 2 most beautiful games every built and lucky are those who have learned and mastered to play these 2 instruments. Disclaimer: I have platinumed both games along with Bloodborne that tops my list.
I like how I went to Lies of P to sekiro and got my ass beaten,like the parries have so many similarities but also a diffrent way to be played lmao.
Sekiro's timing is waaaaaaay more generous. It's a tighter window for Lies of P. When I'm looking at your Sekiro footage I'm really shocked they're giving you the parry. I played both games and loved them both, but this really shows how much easier Sekiro is in the parrying.
Yeah and you’re safe if you hit it early anyways since the game blocks for you
And now comes Stellar Blade with the super early parry timing to mess with us again.
Superb video, show clearly the differences between the two, and why if you came from one to the other, you generally struggle a lot at the beginning, because they have two totally different approches to the parry
Coming from Sekiro to Lies of P, I found very hard to adapt to its parry timing, but I eventually succedeed 😅
Ive gone back forth between the two games. I absolutely throw after every switch just because of the timing
Shortly after achieving a platinum trophy in Lies of P, I began playing Sekiro, and for the first two hours, I was simply getting hit by EVERY enemy attack, lol
Thank you. We need videos like this. It was only by reading the comments that I learned that parry timings can depend on the frame rate. Interesting, isn't it? Since I played Sekiro at 60 fps, and lie P at 120 fps. Even in Sekiro, I stood in block and pressed the block button, and in lie P I tried to retrain myself not to hold block, although while holding I parried some attacks.
MANNNNN! I MISS SEKIRO!!
Its Called Game Design😋
I thought i was going to be amazing in this game, but the parry timing is so different from Sekiro's that it was annoying even.
But once i got the parrying down, it felt so good in Lies of P
Imagine Sekiro requires really-perfect-timing parry, it's would be nightmare bro
Yeah, I was confused about the parry window in sekiro until I realised you’re supposed to lift before the attack lands not press when the attack lands. 😂
maybe this is the reason when I played lies of p after finishing sekiro, I had difficulty parrying in the first 2 hours of playing
wait, sekiro parry timing should be earlier than it lands? i've always done it as exact as possible like in lies of p tf
oh that's why my rhythmic sense can't be uphanded when im playing sekiro lol, seems imma take lies of p as my wishlist game next year
i thought i am playing in 15-20 fps and getting input lag but IT WAS GAME FEATURE
With sekiro, you can actually see the enemy’s movement before they swing the sword. In LOP, the attacks are instantaneous and you can’t see the movement, making you rely on sole rythm.
Not really, if LOP there is no rhythm, you just need to be real quick and have good reflexes, is in sekiro where you have to follow the rhythm
What you say is because in sekiro attacks are more predictable, what makes it easier to parry. In LOP enemies are more erratic and harder to predict, and they have lots of delayed attacks, so it makes it more difficult to parry.
In sekiro you get hit if you try parrying the moment attack lands..your reaction needs to be faster to hit the button before attack lands on you
Might be an oddity here but for the life me i didnt get sekiro or its parry timing.
Dropped it at the first real boss.
Lies of P on the other hand was easier than ds3 and ds3 is my favourite fromsoft game.
already on the new game+ run for LoP and still have no clue how people found this difficult compared to pontiff,dancer,capra,O&S.
Dodge in LoP is just too easy and spammable unlike in souls games
@@teyock9841 no. You cant roll unless you press the button twice.on top of that you need an skill tree update just to dodge twice in a row and thats all.
Every souls game you can spam roll until you dont have stamina.
Lies of P Parry System has just no Mercy 😂
imo sekiro's is better because its more polished and feels smoother, but neowiz's first attempt at a souls like with a sekiro parry system is still awesome, and lies of p's parry isnt bad by any means. I still prefer the smoothness and accuracy that sekiro has.
My first “souls” was lies of p, now I'm playing sekiro
They're not the same thing
Sekiro is deflecting, not parrying/blocking because you're meeting your opponents attacks halfway by swinging your sword just like in a movie or anime action scenes. That's why you also deal posture damage. You can block but it's not recommended.
Lies of P is parrying/bracing to negate the impact/damage of your opponents.
Yup and that's a better way to think about it but for the sake of simplicity I used them interchangeably because that's how most people will view them both and thus making the video easier to find.
Nice video, but still Sekiro fills better as a separate challenge, because in Sekiro you should expect way more option in the battle - default parry, then jump, Mikiri, some features with your artificial limb, the same works with the enemies in Sekiro. Some attacks can be dodged ONLY by jumping or dashing, and etc. You will not see so many options in the Lies of P (in LP mostly you just deciding parry or dash)
Imo, sekiro parry feels more polished, atleast you can see the patterns of the enemy unlike lies of P that has random BS attacks
Yea its because the animations add up in Sekiro. What you see is what you get basically, which leads to a more satisfying gameplay.
that is because sekiro has perfect animations compared to lies of p
Probably would've been better to try this with the controller wired to avoid latency
true
Can't tell if there's a desync or if you got some gnarly input lag going on.
FS games just have input delays. It's pretty forgettable until you put the controller in front of your screen and see the delay.
With Lies of p, you’re actually still pressing it *before* the attack hits you, it is just much tighter than Sekiro.
I just finished Lies of P as my first ever souls-like game, i absolutely loved it and want to try another one now, currently torn between sekiro or bloodborne. Considering elden ring and DS3 but im just not as big a fan of the themes of those games.
sekiro was honestly pretty easy once i learned how to parry but lies of p was just memorizing
You are forced to memorize in Sekiro also. That’s why people die over and over because each time they learn the bosses patterns, and deflect windows. It’s the same shit, just different parry frames.
I always thought that the thing that made Sekiro so much easier was that it’s parry on press, where in er, DS, BB, etc, it’s parry/dodge on RELEASE, so it only starts when your thumb leaves the button and sekiro it parries as soon as you press it. Maybe the same here?
Nah fam the parries in bb work like sekiro as it activates on click i.e. the gun is fired as soon as you press the button
@@Sid-qj3ec prob true, BB is my least played souls game… everytime I start It I decide the remaster gotta be around the corner and want my full first run to be in 4k 60fps 😢 when I play it now all I see is the ps3 graphics and it kinda sullies the beauty of it.
"in er, DS, BB, etc, it’s parry/dodge on RELEASE"
No it isn't. Parry and BB's gunshot/parry happen on press. You can easily test this by just holding the appropriate button and seeing that the parry clearly happens even though you never let go of the button. What makes Sekiro different is that the parry can happen while you're in a reaction animation, the parry lasts a lot longer (about half a second), and the parry continues to work even if you release the parry button slightly early. And of course that Sekiro's parry turns into a regular "hold guard" if you do it too early and hold the button.
@@TheMisterGuy yeah I could have phrased it better, I was really referring the “on release” to the souls dodging and “parry” for BB, but I was wrong and misrememberering BB like I said in the last comment. But yeah you put it much better.
Nice demonstration. Haven't played Lies of P yet so not sure which would be better but I was always shit at parrying in the Dark Souls games.
This makes parry using keyboard a lot harder.
I actually just finished Lies of P and decided to play Sekiro again (I did finish it like 4 years ago) and It was so much harder to parry attacks for some reason, but after some testing I understood that it is actually way more forgiving than in Lies of P, u may (and need)to press parry way earlier and the parry window is quite bigger. However I was so used to LoP timing and actually pressing parry when the attack lands (which is in my opinion feels and works way more natural) that it was quite a problem for a couple of hours xd. All in all I kinda find parry system in LoP better, but the game overall wasn't that hard even tho I am not a very hardcore player.
Sekiro is the best... game is hard but so fucking rewarding and intense when you "click" with the combat
I enjoyed the Lies of P parry more. It felt more responsive and natural to parry an attack just as it hits me
Parry timings in LoP are not as bad as people make them out to be it’s just that the sekiro ones make switching from one to the other hard