Shorter cranks seem to be needed for the newer long reaches and low stack height bikes. Before the advent of the sloped top tube, frames were sized as measured, had equal length top tubes and the head tube angles were usually the same as the seat tube, unless custom made. There was no real issues with tight hip angles on the top of the bars, and the drop and reach of the bars could be chosen along with proper stem length to adjust hip angle.
My LBS runs group rides in the summer. Stopped doing them for several reasons: (1) in a pace line, rider in front of me abruptly stops pedaling - alarming! - instead of soft-pedaling, pulling slightly towards the centerline out of the draft to let the air slow them, or very lightly dragging the brakes while pedaling (2) rider ahead of me letting gaps open in front of them (3) guys trying to be a hero and do several mile stints at the front In my racing club, when we went out for a training ride together it wasn't competitive, the goal was to work together to do the route as quickly and efficiently as possible. And save competitiveness for races. We weren't constantly yelling and pointing, it was the responsibility of the rider in front to lead the pace line around holes and bumps.
I initially started to question the group ride portion since our local rides are as popular as ever. But all the points you made were spot on. We have worse practices as well but the rides still remain large. They could be much more enjoyable if they listen to your tips.
Great lessons for group rides. I avoid them now because depending on who was in the group, it just started the feel dangerous and frustrating. Surging was a problem, as was most of the rest of the things you talked about. I tend to meet them at the cafe. That's the time for a chat, not during the ride unless everyone agrees beforehand. Especially during the colder times of the year, I need to keep warm.
Used to do the group rides with RAS stage winners, junior tour winners and other elite riders, no road boss no shouting very little talking no half wheeling. It was brilliant. Would never ride in a group these days
Great podcast. As an introvert I absolutely love riding on my own. Nothing against anyone but I’m in zone 2 in my daily life around people so being in a group ride I would be zone 4 with all the anxiety and stress.
I'm an introvert too, but there's something magical about riding in a FUNCTIONING group and/or paceline. A group ride that isn't riding functionally is a nightmare.
@@GummeeH3that is very true the times I have been in group rides (only for practice being in a bunch for races) it’s been horrible so maybe I just need to find better groups to be in.
I remember when group rides was a place learn and get some decent miles in ( this was the late 80' to late 90' ) the thing there was 80 % of the rides use to race now its like 20% mite race its amazing how that has changed the way a group ride works , no one ever pointed out pot holes or shingle on the road, everyone always dropped to the back to eat , the 'senior' riders ( often national class rides) took the new riders under the wing for a few weeks and showed them what works and doesn't, i can hardly remember anyone crashing much, these days everyone is an expert telling you what's what ! Pointing and yelling at anything that MIGHT be a hazard, i cant believe how many people crash , there was a bunch ride i use to do regularly and there were often a few crashes and when the two rides who organised this ride ( often 40 riders) Ask me as i was considered an experienced ride what could be done about the crashes etc i said people need to learn how to bunny hop and stop all the pointing that would help heaps, i was told oh with that attitude it might be time you ( me) found another group to ride with. I think this is just what society is like now everyone thinks they know better!?!?!
The group ride I came up on was one where no one talked to you until you proved 1) you're not going to cause a crash, and 2) you're not going to gap the group out by going up front when you're not fit.
I've given up on group rides. Every ride HAS to be a "race," with the fastest riders dropping people and spreading the group out. This is why the group has 115-120 members, but the fastest 5-6 are the only ones that show up for rides. People drive 15-20 miles, so they can ride solo? Surprisingly, nobody shows up.
@@christopherharmon9336 well have people record on Strava and start excluding people who ride too fast for the group designation. In our groups, we have capped max speeds. Anyone pushing faster than that gets a big earful
I decided to try a group ride at a LBS. The overall experience was horrible. Are group rides only pretend races? I was interested in some socialization and meeting new people. I sat with the group, waiting for the ride to start and no one introduced themselves or seemed particularly interested a new person was riding. Within in 2 miles the group dropped me completely and I had to make my own ride, circled back to the car. The LBS lost a customer.
Jez, imagine being shouted at on a group ride only for the same person to ask you what a BB or Di2 is by the same person when you stop for a brew! 🤦🏼♂️🚴🏼♂️
The amount of rules one has to obey is absolutely why a group ride is something not a lot of people like. It differs so wildly from group to group and no one can honestly say there is a consensus about which rules apply. That is cyclings weakest point: the introvert nature of the sport combined with the introvert nature of the people riding and. This podcast seems to be an attempt of clarifying things. It makes me think that any beginner would run away screaming if he started listening to you guys. Cycling is difficult, secret, highly secterian in its nature and for all these reasons it is its own worst enemy. Still love it and all is good. You guys are doing well. It’s just that this is unfortunately how things are in cycling.
As a person who is more of a racer, I find all the yelling, shouting, pointing etc very unnerving and almost why I don’t like or trust group rides. I was at a fondo in Australia a couple of weeks ago, and watched numerous people nearly crash pointing out the very hole they then hit. Hang onto your bike people, and stay upright. It’s Your one job. Chill out, it will be okay. Anyway, back to my solo training.
I used to be part of a club but it was so dangerous because most of them didn’t know how to ride in group safely and then you also had to sit and listen to rubbish talk from the class clowns at the coffee shop. There was so much jealousy it was really quite pathetic because I was a better cyclist than any of them. So childish. And these are supposedly grown men. It was just no good so I cycle on my own now.
Sounds like a shit group. Not all groups are jealous of better riders. Many are just inspired and appreciate them pulling big turns that benefit everyone and raise the level. Fin s a better group
My recollection too! The suffixes of "Up" means behind the group, "down" means in front. We also used to ride neatly two abreast, changing on the front as and when necessary, with no drama whatsoever. It was ingrained into me from my first ever group ride with the local CTC as a teenager in the mid-eighties.
@@pompeymonkey3271 When we announce “Car up!” it is a warning to the group that a car/vehicle is heading towards us. “Car back!” means one is coming up from the rear of the group.
@@cycleoflife565 Nope, it's a vehicle thing. Oil up, Oil down. Some say it's cockney and some say it's to do with an engine runs on oil. I dunno but it does denote to vehicles. That was pretty clear on the rides. :)
These rules that are a bit different depending on wherevyou ride are not great for new group riders. Also adults all think they are right so unless someones in charge then its often kaos
Besides the social aspects and a higher average speed on Strava there is no real reason to ride in a group . But there are some serious reasons why not to. Safety and respect to other road users.
Eating.... really I always get my fuel in on the front. It is safer, you don't have to worry about riding into the back of someone. I am not slowing down when Eating. About to go out on a group ride. Will definitely eat on the front
Shorter cranks seem to be needed for the newer long reaches and low stack height bikes. Before the advent of the sloped top tube, frames were sized as measured, had equal length top tubes and the head tube angles were usually the same as the seat tube, unless custom made. There was no real issues with tight hip angles on the top of the bars, and the drop and reach of the bars could be chosen along with proper stem length to adjust hip angle.
My LBS runs group rides in the summer. Stopped doing them for several reasons:
(1) in a pace line, rider in front of me abruptly stops pedaling - alarming! - instead of soft-pedaling, pulling slightly towards the centerline out of the draft to let the air slow them, or very lightly dragging the brakes while pedaling
(2) rider ahead of me letting gaps open in front of them
(3) guys trying to be a hero and do several mile stints at the front
In my racing club, when we went out for a training ride together it wasn't competitive, the goal was to work together to do the route as quickly and efficiently as possible. And save competitiveness for races.
We weren't constantly yelling and pointing, it was the responsibility of the rider in front to lead the pace line around holes and bumps.
I initially started to question the group ride portion since our local rides are as popular as ever. But all the points you made were spot on. We have worse practices as well but the rides still remain large. They could be much more enjoyable if they listen to your tips.
please share it with the group and if even a few change their habits it will have been worth it
Great lessons for group rides. I avoid them now because depending on who was in the group, it just started the feel dangerous and frustrating. Surging was a problem, as was most of the rest of the things you talked about. I tend to meet them at the cafe. That's the time for a chat, not during the ride unless everyone agrees beforehand. Especially during the colder times of the year, I need to keep warm.
Used to do the group rides with RAS stage winners, junior tour winners and other elite riders, no road boss no shouting very little talking no half wheeling. It was brilliant. Would never ride in a group these days
Great podcast. As an introvert I absolutely love riding on my own. Nothing against anyone but I’m in zone 2 in my daily life around people so being in a group ride I would be zone 4 with all the anxiety and stress.
I'm an introvert too, but there's something magical about riding in a FUNCTIONING group and/or paceline. A group ride that isn't riding functionally is a nightmare.
@@GummeeH3that is very true the times I have been in group rides (only for practice being in a bunch for races) it’s been horrible so maybe I just need to find better groups to be in.
Only time I'm zone 4 is 350W at 28 mph. Group rides I am in are full of people who know how to ride and paceline.
I remember when group rides was a place learn and get some decent miles in ( this was the late 80' to late 90' ) the thing there was 80 % of the rides use to race now its like 20% mite race its amazing how that has changed the way a group ride works , no one ever pointed out pot holes or shingle on the road, everyone always dropped to the back to eat , the 'senior' riders ( often national class rides) took the new riders under the wing for a few weeks and showed them what works and doesn't, i can hardly remember anyone crashing much, these days everyone is an expert telling you what's what ! Pointing and yelling at anything that MIGHT be a hazard, i cant believe how many people crash , there was a bunch ride i use to do regularly and there were often a few crashes and when the two rides who organised this ride ( often 40 riders) Ask me as i was considered an experienced ride what could be done about the crashes etc i said people need to learn how to bunny hop and stop all the pointing that would help heaps, i was told oh with that attitude it might be time you ( me) found another group to ride with. I think this is just what society is like now everyone thinks they know better!?!?!
You can't bunny hop a two inch deep pothole if the guy three inches in front of you doesn't tell you. It's just a fact. Not at 25 mph
The group ride I came up on was one where no one talked to you until you proved 1) you're not going to cause a crash, and 2) you're not going to gap the group out by going up front when you're not fit.
I've given up on group rides. Every ride HAS to be a "race," with the fastest riders dropping people and spreading the group out. This is why the group has 115-120 members, but the fastest 5-6 are the only ones that show up for rides. People drive 15-20 miles, so they can ride solo? Surprisingly, nobody shows up.
Your club should have different categories. a, b, and c for the different ability levels, with different expectations
@@Shadowboost We've tried that-and it only increased the number of people who show up to humiliate slower riders.
@@christopherharmon9336 well have people record on Strava and start excluding people who ride too fast for the group designation. In our groups, we have capped max speeds. Anyone pushing faster than that gets a big earful
It's all about the conversations, yes let's stop the rotation for a convo haha
Hi guys. Love the show and have one quick question - where can I get that cycling print you have in the background?
it was a local artist exhibiting in a cafe
❤ Enjoy your podcasts.😊
I decided to try a group ride at a LBS. The overall experience was horrible. Are group rides only pretend races? I was interested in some socialization and meeting new people. I sat with the group, waiting for the ride to start and no one introduced themselves or seemed particularly interested a new person was riding. Within in 2 miles the group dropped me completely and I had to make my own ride, circled back to the car. The LBS lost a customer.
Jez, imagine being shouted at on a group ride only for the same person to ask you what a BB or Di2 is by the same person when you stop for a brew! 🤦🏼♂️🚴🏼♂️
The amount of rules one has to obey is absolutely why a group ride is something not a lot of people like. It differs so wildly from group to group and no one can honestly say there is a consensus about which rules apply. That is cyclings weakest point: the introvert nature of the sport combined with the introvert nature of the people riding and. This podcast seems to be an attempt of clarifying things. It makes me think that any beginner would run away screaming if he started listening to you guys. Cycling is difficult, secret, highly secterian in its nature and for all these reasons it is its own worst enemy. Still love it and all is good. You guys are doing well. It’s just that this is unfortunately how things are in cycling.
Different walking abilities can still walk together , slightly different running abilities can run together...but different cycling abilities?
My mum is from the liberties area of Dublin, Sarah has THE most beautiful accent❤
Thank you!! ❤
As a person who is more of a racer, I find all the yelling, shouting, pointing etc very unnerving and almost why I don’t like or trust group rides. I was at a fondo in Australia a couple of weeks ago, and watched numerous people nearly crash pointing out the very hole they then hit.
Hang onto your bike people, and stay upright. It’s Your one job. Chill out, it will be okay. Anyway, back to my solo training.
I used to be part of a club but it was so dangerous because most of them didn’t know how to ride in group safely and then you also had to sit and listen to rubbish talk from the class clowns at the coffee shop. There was so much jealousy it was really quite pathetic because I was a better cyclist than any of them. So childish. And these are supposedly grown men. It was just no good so I cycle on my own now.
I see this all the time.. the cycling community is so strange …most refuse to wave or say hi as well hard to crack in
Sounds like a shit group. Not all groups are jealous of better riders. Many are just inspired and appreciate them pulling big turns that benefit everyone and raise the level. Fin s a better group
Get you 🙄
And a dangerous bunch also.
@@ricardomoonbeam8530 Not sure what you mean here. Two interpretations possible.
Group riding of more than 3 is crap. For training with actual objectives SOLO is only way
Like the podcast but love the Irish accent and good looks. Sarah isn't bad either.
charmer! ❤
Sorry Sarah, the good looks comment was for Ant 😂🤣
Shouting oil means Car/Vehicle. It's an old thing, I think??
I would think shouting “oil” means oil on the road in a turn and to proceed with caution.
My recollection too! The suffixes of "Up" means behind the group, "down" means in front.
We also used to ride neatly two abreast, changing on the front as and when necessary, with no drama whatsoever. It was ingrained into me from my first ever group ride with the local CTC as a teenager in the mid-eighties.
@@pompeymonkey3271 When we announce “Car up!” it is a warning to the group that a car/vehicle is heading towards us. “Car back!” means one is coming up from the rear of the group.
@@cycleoflife565 Nope, it's a vehicle thing. Oil up, Oil down. Some say it's cockney and some say it's to do with an engine runs on oil. I dunno but it does denote to vehicles. That was pretty clear on the rides. :)
Love a whistle on a group ride 😀
These rules that are a bit different depending on wherevyou ride are not great for new group riders. Also adults all think they are right so unless someones in charge then its often kaos
you must've hit a 'recreational cyclist' group ride. Which is a 'group ride' like a gaggle of individuals riding down the road is a 'group.'
Oh you're so much cooler and elite than those pleb recreational cyclists. Tosser.
Quite like group rides - don't know what people are going on about.
Besides the social aspects and a higher average speed on Strava there is no real reason to ride in a group . But there are some serious reasons why not to. Safety and respect to other road users.
Eating.... really
I always get my fuel in on the front. It is safer, you don't have to worry about riding into the back of someone. I am not slowing down when Eating.
About to go out on a group ride. Will definitely eat on the front
❤❤❤❤
Yep, group rides are generally dangerous, and unfun. I don’t bother.