Refugiums: Why they are beneficial to a reef tank
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- Опубліковано 22 сер 2024
- I was inspired to talk about refugiums today, and you get a brand new video. Win-win! If you have questions, ask below. Remember, Live Streams are Saturdays at 2pm CST and the next one is about *Water Quality*!
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I'm a big fan of refugiums, for all the reasons you mention. They offer a natural alternative to using technology and chemicals. Not only that, when it's mature and full of life it becomes a second viewing area, sometimes as interesting as the main display.
3:48 Do copepods and other microfauna indeed not killed by return pump ?!
Thank you for your honest statement that, even for you, your tank always has "problems/challenges". As a new reefer this helps me enjoy the process.
I don't even have a saltwater tank and I love your videos,intelligence of all things is addictive
I just found your channel today. I had a tragic weekend in my first ever salt tank and I really, REALLY needed to hear this intro today. thank you.
Sorry to hear about the recent losses. Hang in there!
Mark, my wife and I love to watch your videos, you help me stay motivated, with our busy life to be a better reef husband.
You don't need to change a thing. I watch just to see the beautiful part of the world you have created and care for. You have truly done a beautiful job of carrying for Gods sea. Thanks.
Mark, I really enjoyed this video! Sometimes I enjoy the refugium more than the main display! Of course the main display is more beautiful, but seeing the refugium can sometimes be more captivating as its something we don't usually see and is also beautiful in its own way.
I used to spend a lot of time on my belly gazing into the refugium zone. :)
melevsreef I've done the same thing many times, although the refugiums I've had have never looked as nice as yours, I do love critter watching, it really is a peaceful feeling. I've always liked planted freshwater tanks (I've never owned one) and having a refugium is kind of like having the best of both worlds, reef tank display and a nice macro growth in the fuge. I've got a JBJ 30 RL and I'm growing mangroves in the back at the moment but I'm making my list to upgrade to either a 60 cube or 65 gallon RR. I'll definitely include a nice refugium in the build. I've always wanted to have a dedicated refugium system that would gravity flow down into the sump. I saw one that my LFS was using and I loved the idea of having a sumo that had to stay behind closed stand doors. Having a display refugium is like having a clean engine bay on your car, compared to a refugium that works, but it's really dirty and not something you'd like seeing.
Yes, keeping it clean and appealing and still be practical as well as useful is my plan. I've seen a handful of beautiful display refugiums that were stunners, and you could tell the person knew exactly how to prune the plants for the most pleasing display.
melevsreef Do you ever worry about your feather caulerpa going "sexual" under your reverse lighting schedule? I started doing some research online and the forums seem to think that a reverse lighting schedule would make it go "sexual" and some said 24 hour lighting would prevent it but as soon as you turn off your 24 hour lighting that would trigger it to go "sexual" as well. I'm drawing up my plans for a sump and I'll probably do something like you've got with the protein skimmer in the back left area, refugium running across the front portion and then the back right portion as the return pump area. I'd like to use some feather caulerpa as well, its an aesthetically pleasing macro algae, I'll probably also run chaeto as you are along side the caulerpa.
No, this type does do that. Never has, which is why I prefer it.
Thank you for sharing. When I build my new sump I will definitely include a bigger section than I had planned for a refugium!
What a great outlook!...So true and very comforting."NATURE IS MESSY!"
That's very thru , you one of the only ones that actually replied to our comments
Great work buddy
Thank you for another great video. I now run refugiums in both of my reef tanks. Its absolutely beneficial and another crucial key to a stable, healthy and simple way to maintain water parameters.
Thanks man this is my favorite hobby I use to have just freshwater fish but transitioned to saltwater. It was a little more expensive but well worth it.
This was very informative. After my long water quality issue, it's nice to see how responsible you tubers are. I am frankly surprised and delighted by the instructions on how to destroy invasives. I am thinking of doing a fresh water version of this to support a terrestrial tanks with water features.
What an awe inspiring reef tank,can't wait to see what you've got in store for it, I'm glued to the edge of my seat. Cheers
Love your journey and that you take all who watch with you...ive learned s lot
Great vid Mark, you hit it on the nail in the beginning of the vid. I think MANY people can relate. Comes with the hobby I guess, always a work in progress.
Hey... Thank you for sharing all your videos. I dont have a refugium for my tank, but I u used to grow feather caulerpa algae in my sump... I used to grow like crazy, because I had nothing else to filter the nitrates and other nutrients....later on I added some stuff that took my space and I just couldnt keep the plants in it. While I had this algae in my sump, I used to constant give some to my fish... They did love it (not sure is good or not for them, but they DO LOVE eating chaeto and feather algae). A month ago, I found out about this little refugium that I could hang on the side, which I thought I was a super cool thing, so I bought one; I went to get some chaeto, but after a week, it seemed to be getting white and dying, and I had to removed half of it. After doing some research, I got to the conclusion that maybe I didnt have the right light for the chaeto (I was using the light that came with the little refugium box).... Yesterday I got a different kind of light that stimulates plant growing, and I also got the feather algea.. I really hope that works. By the way.. I am in California and I have got the feather caulerpa algae from a local fish store... I didnt know it was a typed as pest in the State. Thank you for all the tips and info. By the way, your tank looks amazing.
I am so relaxed after watching that video.
Great 👍Job just starting in sump area for refugium
You are a big help for us beginner reefers :) Thank You!
I like your videos! The art of reef-keeping is something that interests me. It shows the complexities and value of these ecosystems. I might take a study on marine-biology to do something to help my country's precious waters. Especially what another country has been doing right now!! Making islands on large coral reefs which took MILLIONS of years to be created, now all gone. (Among many unjustices that face our waters, we must make it live until the future if we want to live in the future at all! For the benefit of the world.) Cheers, K.
Love your videos and experience sharing Mark. Thank you for all you do.
Always enjoy seeing your fuge Marc. Macros are cool
He's going to do a new aquascape I bet!!! Haha I really like how it is now but it would be cool to see if he does. I know he mentioned in another video that he LOVED his old..200 and something..280 gallon aquarium? Maybe make it similar? Love the videos! Keep em coming!
Thanks Marc, great information as always. Enjoy your day!
i have a 40 gallon tank and have a small HOB maybe 1.5 gallons and it works perfectly fine..
I used to run my tank with feather calurpa in it. My tangs and angel fish loved it, but as you said, it pretty much stops corals growing. Pretty though.
Thanks for the info. I have been considering a refugium for my 120 gallon mixed reef tank. Seems like I have to make some room in the sump now.
Awesome video, explanation and refugium. Cheers!
Culerpa technically invaded our estuarine environments in several backwater tidal areas in Carlsbad (San Diego) it was no joke and the efforts made to eradicate it was costly and time intensive. It was floridana if my memory serves me correct.
Excellent video, so much details. thank you for making this.
Thanks as always for your knowledge and experience, invaluable on the journey with this hobby
I love your tank! Can't wait for those days I'm excited now
The "Hot Pink" light you mentioned is usually a blue LED with a red filter and garbage and I agree.
HOWEVER, there are some lights and cob chips you can buy that are true multidiode lights. The best ones have reds blues etc but also infrared and ultraviolet diodes.
Those are the real deal, they do have a pinkish hue because of the red and blue but the ultraviolet (which you don't get from white LED's) actually penetrates deeper into the chloroplast layers of the plant tissues.
My friend has a tank with t5's and he switched one of the 2 bulbs to a UV and noticed his carpeting plants were growing faster in his freshwater.
395nm+ is great for plants, the diodes with UVB's can be too much and also bad for human and animals eyes. Staying higher in the wavelengths is safe while still reaping benefits.
BTW, your video was very good and you explained everything very well and I also love the feather caulerpa!
Hey I’ve been doing a lot of research about refugiums and I’ve come across a question: is it okay if you make the entire sump a refugium? I was curious to hear your thoughts. Love the videos btw
A big refugium is very nice, but what about other things like heaters, reactors, dosers, skimmer and more? All of those need to go somewhere too.
melevsreef good point. Thanks for the reply!!
Tried cheatomorpha four times myself, never grows, instead I went back to caluerpa!! Same kind as u great stuff!!
Nice video with some good advice. I've just started a 96X24X24 Reef build with a 50 inch sump and will definitely run a Refugium. Have a look at my Reef build if you have time :)
It makes perfect sense why you wouldn't put the algae directly into your display tank.. (12:05) But what about the spores created by the algae? Would they not flow through the return and into your display and eventually take root into your live/base rock?
Very informative video you do a great job keep up the good work
I needed to hear that. Thank you
Mark, great video well informed interesting would like to start flowing algae to remove algae from taken hold of main display.
You are 1 of my favorite thanks for your help
Mark you convinced me of cleaning all the gunk on my back glass and just leave it plain black wish by the way looks way better ( just the way my wife want it to have it , when we set up the tank)
But my friend you need to clean your side of the tank is not going to be tank of the month!! Just kidding you have a great tank and is beautiful
Keep teaching us please don't stop making videos
Thank you!
+CUBAN REEFER I totally agree and have been putting it off. Time to set up the Walkboard again and get it scraped.
+CUBAN REEFER check my instagram. Hehe
i love the real talk. And yes i love plants and i want macros to be my main tank.
Live in central Florida and I buy from live-plants.com all the time. Great people to buy from.
Thanks for your experience. :)
Gorgeous display. Refugiums are for a place for nuisance algae to take refuge-rather than the display!
excellent video!!
Great video. Very informative. Thank you
what happened with turf scrubbers; were that one company held the patent to the design. and recently the patent expired on it, so now the big company are allowed to make it. GREAT VIDEO
That makes sense. Thanks!
Awesome information bud. Keep it up!
Always dig your videos man! Thanks
I find your videos very informative! Thanks for all you do :-)
I have a 250gal tank with a sump where I have a chaeto in the middle section with a Neptune Gro light. After switching of my skimmer due to lack of nutrients for the chaeto I started to see some growth. Is there a big different between an in-sump vs an external refugiums?
No, in sump or separate yet tied in to the main system doesn't make any difference.
Great videos Mark....love them all. Couple questions: 1- did you have you’re refuge tank special build for those dimensions or did you buy it that way ? 2- most refuges that I’ve seen have skimmers and filter socks.....is this a special kind of refuge that doesn’t need skimmers or socks ? 3- what kind of light are you running for that refuge ? Thanks so much for all your info.
I build sumps for a living, and this is one I made back in 2010: www.melevsreef.com/tanks/melevs-reef-custom-acrylic-sump
The light is 6500K LEDs from a company that is no longer in business.
super awesome Mark. Great video. :)
Thank you for givin us this vídeo 😇👍🏻
Marc - Assuming no other plans, I'd be happy to lend a hand when you work on your tank in September. Let me know
+psteeleb That would be awesome, Pete. Haven't seen you in forever.
hello sir, big fan of your reefs, i'm going to set a tank with 1 display tank, 1 refugium tank(same size like 90x45x45centimeter), and 1 sump, so i'm relly confused about the waterflow. what should i do wwith it , sir? like water from display tank ---to>> refugium--to>> sump then back to display or some else? which is better way plz
, i cant figure it out,
best regard!
Yes, that’s how I have mine running. Unfiltered reef water drains into refugium and the refugium flows into the return zone, to be pumped back up to the display.
Well said!
Cool vid. I would bet if you lowered your drain pipe into the water so the 90* elbow is at least 80% below the surface you would get a lot more algae through out. The water dumping in degases some CO2 that the "plants" (algae) could use. I wish my refugium on my personal system looked that good.(dealing with some heavy metals)
I will be changing how the water enters the refugium in the near future.
Does algae actually benefit from increased co2 levels? I thought it was only true plants that did...but my background is more in high tech planted tanks where we run excess co2 to give the true plants more growth potential over the algae that we deal with so perhaps in a system without true plants algae can utilize the co2 better? (shrug)
Algae does use CO2. If you use a calcium reactor it is wise to have the effluent lead into the beginning of the refugium section.
im not 100 percent on california but i just bought calerpa two days ago but the shop us closer to nevada than the coast i think its a county or city thing more than a state law
Just a quick note, oxygen does not increase ph, it's the removal of carbon dioxide.
CO2 + H2O H2CO3 H+ + HCO3
HCO3 H+ + CO3
According to le chateliers principal, a buffer system will shift to reach equilibrium, therefor the removal of CO2 from plants shifts this buffer system to create more CO2, reducing free floating hydrogens and so it increase PH
Thank you for that clarification. I over-simplified it, rather than go into the actual chemistry. I'm sure others will appreciate your post too.
That's the sad story in many hobbies. people bring non native plants to their area and dump the remains to their environment and the invasive stuff takes over creating a huge problem for every one. There are tons of horrible stories every where, Australia and Florida are couple of them. You guys should always encourage people to use ONLY natives in their hobbies no matter what. What to do with extras? Do your search, contact your local environment experts and authorities. Don't just dump things into your swage system, rivers or the sea and think that they are gone. bcz they may still alive and effect your area in un controllable ways
Very interesting vid thank you.
Hello facebook, I didn't realize you were a person with aquariums; I thought you were just a social media website.
😉
I always love to see you video.you taught me a lot thanks and keep it up.
True words well said.
could you establish an Artemia population in the refugium?
I don’t think there would be enough food in the refugium to keep them going. Check with Chad at Reef Nutrition as he would know more.
I feel that way with my freshwater fish tank
What about the um mangrove stuff do you not like it in you fuge I think maybe it would look good at the beginning where the water rushes in where it's thin
Looks great. In my future tank I will make very large refugium. I'm thinking to add a couple inches sand, and live rock rubble covering over it a few inches, for the caulerpa to grow in and on. Instead of having them float. What's your take on that? Is it too difficult to trim then?
That's a good plan. Just remember that rock will never be used in your display ever again. The roots will weave their way through the rock and new vines will appear... so if you know that rock is sacrificed to this particular zone forever it's a good plan.
Thanks, well I was planning on making it permanent and maybe even a display refugium. I can imagine a few large rocks with lots of surface area, covered in different algae would look cool. As little islands of algae, and just trim the shoots that try to escape the rock.
I would try to remove the red bubble algae while you can. If the one fish in the display that eats it gets sick you are going to have some problems in the display. Also if you trade coral with someone who has a nano and a tiny bit of algae is on the base... They might not be able to ethically put a tang in their tank that will eat it.
Thanks for the tip, I might as well since it isn't doing anything good for the system.
Love your videos i learn something..
Great vid! Always interesting to learn more about the other critters that going into keeping a reef tank running. So much focus on the fish and coral it gets hard to grasp some of the more utilitarian things.
I'm still confused about the whole thing of algae going sexual, can someone explain that to me? I'm coming more from a background of planted freshwater aquariums so theres lots of little things in salt water that are still mysterious to me.
It's when the plant bleeds out all of its green fluid within into the water column, and the mass turns clear. Within a few days, the clear plant collapses, falling apart as you try to remove it. There's more to it, but that's the gist of it. No-one wants that to happen, and this particular species I showcased does not do this.
Is there a good list of what species do and don't go sexual and what causes them to go sexual?
Now what about using a protein skimmer doesn't it suck out all of the Copa pods? In the next question is do you use a filter soccer anything to strain out cause I know a lot of copis get trapped in there as well?
tank looks awesome!
I have 2 maxima clams in my modified 29 gallon biocube. Would growing chaeto in the back chamber harm the clams by possibly removing nitrates the clams need?
Great videos. I look forward to them. Are you going to try the triton method?
+Ruby Cadilac I don't know. I'll be talking to them since they have a huge booth at MACNA next week.
For running a deep sand bed for denitrification, is there any benefit to different grain sizes of sand? (Like putting a couple of inches of finer sand on the bottom and larger towards the top....)
Also... for the refugium... do you see any problem with having a tight lid to limit evaporation?
Gr8 bro....I m impressed with it valuers...it is awesome
Interesting you mentioned seahorses. Would you ever House seahorses in a refugium?
Thanx for the video. I love my fuges and they always do well. Lately I have found myself on the fence with Miracle Mud. I haven't used it, I hear good things but for mud, It is a bit pricey. Any thoughts?
Sand will suffice. If the mud was as great as it implies, we would see lots of proof and everyone would be using it because they'd want the same results.
Thanks Mark! Do you have suggestions on any critters that can live in the refugium that wouldn't destroy the pod population, as in that can cohabitate with pods?
Snails, cucumbers, starfish all are possible candidates. A fighting conch, a small urchin perhaps. Just consider the size of the refugium before you add things so those items don't starve to death. Or feed the fuge to keep them fed.
Mark have you used refugium mud like miracle mud in your refugium or just sand. I used it and had really good results but i think the tank thrived cuz the refugium was very healthy it had a ridiculous amount of life. Btw going to macna for the first time. See you there.
Be sure to find me and introduce yourself. :) I've only used sand.
Is feather caulerpa considered a Marine Plant or micro-algae like Chaetomorpha Algae? and Do you think the larger the refugium the less light-intensity matters? Thank you!
Micro algae is Hair Algae (derbasia) or Bryopsis. Caulerpa and Cheato are macro algaes.
The taller the refugium, the more lighting is needed to penetrate the water. Some have reportedly thrown tons of wattage at their refugium and see massive growth, so there is validity to lighting choices. People have used T5s, VHOs, Metal Halides to grow these plants, but LEDs are the less energy-consuming choice of course.
I have a 75 gallon tank I am going to use for my refugium and I was wondering how many hours you run your light. Would it benefit it at all to run a powerhead to move water around? Or just use the discharge from my overflow?
9 hours a day should suffice. That's how long mine is on. A powerhead could help with some nice circulation, provided the plant doesn't clog that pump's intake port.
Hi. Nice video. Would like seek some advice from you. If i am dosing trace element to the reef tank. Do i need to dose more if i have a refugium? The algae will absorb some of the trace element in the tank i suppose? Please correct me if i am wrong.
Just dose what the tank needs. Don't add extra 'to be safe', and consider that if you can't test for what you are dosing you could very well be using too much as it is.
Cool video
Can we use Clarithromycin(antibio) tablet for cyano ? I hate cyano cause it is so slimy.. Thax for video by the way.
I don’t know. Sorry. I either use Chemi-Clean or RedCyano Rx.
Nice video! Quick question, does caulerpa go asexual or is there any risk of it invading the main display tank?
This type doesn't. Caulerpa nummularia is much more prone to go sexual, but if you keep the light on 24 hours a day it won't. But you don't benefit from the pH boost since photosynthesis can't process naturally. www.melevsreef.com/node/447
I don't feed macro algae to my fish because there's a chance some of the plant can pass through the fish and land in the rockwork to take root.
I see I see. Do you happen to know the exact type of caulerpa that you have? I was thinking on adding the one from Indo Pacific Sea Farms, they sell a yellow and red one that they use to feed their tangs but I have seen many people with great reefs like yours or Duane's using caulerpa that make me wonder if I should just use caulerpa instead.
This is the kind I have. melevsreef.com/critters/caulerpa-sertulariodes
Thanks!
Feather went sexual in my tank. Lol. But, I'm a certain kind of special!
Similar to what you see in shops always replacing corals never looks the same
Whats your opinion on sulfer reactor to help control nitrate? Or do you think adding a larger portion of the sump to more macro would be more effective?
I've still never used one. I borrowed one to try out, but my tank was back to nearly 0 nitrate so that test would have been pointless. I like biopellets, they have made nitrates a non-issue for my reef. Macroalgae does all the nice things I mentioned, but you'll notice I didn't discuss it helping reduce nitrate since it never did in my own system.
melevsreef thanks! Any article or video you suggest on biopelets? And seriously, you replying is amazing. Keep up the great channel!
Here's my video, and in the video description on links to some articles too. ua-cam.com/video/aRHf8b1H5u4/v-deo.html
I know it's a little off topic from this video but I figured I would ask since refugiums deal with nutrients. I am having a dino issue ONLY in my sand bad. I don't really get bubbles with it and I would 100% think it's diatoms if I didn't look at it with a microscope. I can not get rid of it to save my life. po4 is .02 and no3 is below 2ppm. I have dosed peroxide also at 1ml to 10 gallons but doesn't help. Any tips?
Dinoflagellates? Have you considered turning the lights off for three days (simply unplug them from your timers), and continue dosing 3% peroxide the entire time. How big is the area affected?
Hi Mark, I run bio pellets and wondered is there still a benefit of setting up a refugium in my sump? I do like the way you can grow your own pods though :)
I run both since each offers benefits to my reef. If you have the space, incorporating a refugium is a good choice.
I currently have a very small refugium with Chaeto in my sump. My overall system is 29 gallon and i was thinking of adding a separate 29 gallon refugium side to my tank with chaeto. If I add dry sand in it, will it cause a cycle if i add it with my existing tank? Ive been hearing about Trion and its benefits...
No, dry sand does not cause a cycle, ever. Nor does adding live sand. Sand is sand.
Would this be beneficial for a fish only marine tank of 6ft 2ft 2ft ? and would it keep nitrates down and reduce need for so many water changes
It can help out compete nuisance algae, but it won't eliminate water changes in a fish-only system.
thanks melevsreef :)
one thing that i am always wondering what is best, Fuge before skimmer? or fuge after skimmer i have heard many opinions on both.
sheldon jessup I've always been told that fuge comes after skimmer to reduce the death of pods.
That was my feeling too, but Triton has it first, so i was curious
I always recommend away from the skimmer. My sumps have input from two sections (one to the skimmer, one to the refugium) and both zones then pour toward a combined return zone. That way the skimmer can't export the copepods; they can flow right up to the display.
Hi, Mark ! Why don't you like the pink refugium light ?
I hate the look, that's the only reason. If we lived in a world where the daylight was pink and all the plants grew, I'd accept it without question. lol
So do you in any way try to "rescue" pods when you take out a hunk of macro algae? Or are they just a casualty of cleaning?
And color me in the category of living in California and being pissed that some dummy dumped it in southern california and now everywhere in the state it's banned. Don't get me wrong I'm sure chaeto can do the job, but the "green steel wool" look doesn't look anywhere close to as nice as macro that has rooting capabilities.
I used to try to shake out the macroalgae to scavenge the pods, just like some people try to find all the ones that are trapped in their filter socks. But unless it's crawling with them like ants, odds are the few you lose won't after the population *that* much.
I have been fighting a gha invasion for about a year. I've got my nutrients so low now that my chaeto in the refugium melted away but I'm still fighting off the gha! Thinking of shutting down the refugium, what do you think?
You may need to clean it out and reset that zone. I've done that in the past if it got beyond messy. GHA needs to be manually removed in bulk (have you watched that video yet?) and then add a lot of clean up crew to get the last of it. If you have a 100g tank, you need 100 critters. New hungry ones will do far better than the few you have in the tank now that are worthless slugs. ;)