I've played ladders without jsp, ladders with jsp, now with the shared stash i just play single player. most fulfilling d2 experience after all these years.
i like using JSP strictly for assigning in game value to my items. for example, how many HRs should i charge for x item? i go to jsp and get the FG value for the item and compare it to the FG value for the runes, then charge that many runes lol
The problem with that is that a ridiculous amount of people don't know, or don't care what jsp is, what their made up price of their made up gold is and therefore will not pay the price you ask. The only way you get these astronomical prices is from other people with said made up gold
Blizzard will never be able to solve this problem for D2. Look at World of Warcraft. They have an in game currency that is useful, and it results in mass botting and gold buying which would ruin the Diablo 2 Ladder's same way JSP does. I don't mind people having mass wealth going into a ladder season because if you take away D2Jsp currency, it just goes back to real life money becoming the wealth people have going into a season when they can buy a Jah rune for USD instead of forum gold. Regulating that is very difficult, as look at WoW and their gold buying and mass botting issue. I think solving the botting issue would be the best thing to do for the economy (easier said than done), whereas limiting pay 2 win is basically impossible in a system of trading due to IRL money existing. PD2 could add a currency that drops from boss kills or terror zones or some well thought out system, but they would have to give the currency value other than trade because otherwise it is worthless currency.
Project Diablo 2's economy isn't perfec, but it feels soo much better knowing jspers and botters aren't running rampant devaluing everything. Ladder resets actually force you to grind for gear and currency, and even weeks into the reset you know your drops will still have value. I've also never been scammed on PD2, people for the most part are a pleasure to trade with. There's so much trust in the community people don't even use the trade window, just drop your items and runes and go on your merry way.
I've been trading on jsp since 2008. jsp doesn't ruin the value of things, botters do. Items maintained their value VERY well when D2R came out. In season 2 values plummeted compared to season 1. The bot programs were written and were being used. I hated it. I have 100's of trades on jsp and I can't remember being scammed. It does happen, but it's usually on absurdly expensive gear. If you trade properly using recommended practices, jsp has an excellent recovery system. The mods can just refund your forum gold and take it away from the scammer.
@@Iffy50This was mostly my experience. I think I've only ever been scammed once out of thousands of trades. I just followed the 2/3 rule. Only once did that ever fail. Most people aren't going to risk losing an '08 jsp account over a low value scam. People will more likely go scam in the poker forum...lol
Talk to my auto quester - bot plays the game for me all the way to hell then magic finds and gears itself depending on the build now multiply that by 12 😂 day 2 I’m already feeding off jspers gold currency and so are every d2 item store. Jsp is not the problem, the problem has always been bots.
that would be so great. or just simply make this currency tab in the stash already that is just for runes, keys, organs, gems etc. where you stack them on top of each other. i have like mules over mules for gems and runes and items. it's just dumb. especially for torches and annys that basically force you to clutter up the shared stash because you can't dump multiple on a single char. at least you should be able to have multiple in the personal stash and keep the 1 per char limit only for the inventory. i understand the limit makes sense so you can't load up the char with 40 annys but it could be done better imho. just count the first one and "deactivate" the others. so you can have as many as you want but only the first that goes inside the inventory counts.
just make two servers, one for ppl who dont care about pay to win and just want to trade, and a solo-self found servers. We actually tried this experiment in 2016, when half the player based cried they wanted D3 solo self found. So it was made solo-self found. And everyone quit within 6 months. Even the ones who cried for it.
All of this was really well thought out which is no surprise coming from MrLlamaSC. One counterpoint I'd make from a business standpoint, D2R was meant primarily to bring in old players for the nostalgia. The resources required to overhaul the lobby and implement a trading system the way you described won't be worth the financial investment from Blizzard when the playerbase has already been established. Blizzard isn't going to bring in millions of new players (and the corresponding revenue) by improving the existing game. They'd have a lot more fiscal success making these changes in a new game and then marketing that game. The only way I can see them making these improvements in D2R would be if they wrap them in some kind of new expansion for D2/D2R that they can then market to new players (which would be absolutely fantastic) but now you're talking years of development and a ton more resources
1 Key thing you missed is that it allows you to accumulate larger amounts of wealth with much smaller trades. For example someone could farm spirit or insight packs and sell them for 1 or 2fg until they have enough to buy a Ber rune. Do the same for a Jah and it enables someone who couldn't otherwise afford it to trade for an Enigma. Also JSP does offer mediators to keep trades safe.
The transfer of wealth between ladders is EXACTLY why I personally dislike it. I'd even prefer people have to go spend money every season to get more fg instead of just starting with wealth would help prolong the time it takes for people to get stuff. RMT is still bad but at least it would hurt peoples wallets. Not just sell off all your stuff when you are done for the season and then use it to purchase what you need next season early on.
Yeah it is the reason i haven't taken D2 ladder seriously. I have played a few ladders for fun but i always know people will buy items for FG while im spending a whole day mfing for junk
I've done about 10+ D2 ladders. (not just D2R) I have 7442 fg right now, but I always write down what my total is before I start the new season and I don't use any legacy fg. It's still MUCH better to trade through jsp. I can find what I need fast and I can sell what I have to sell fast.
I certainly don't disagree that there can be a transfer of wealth but it's not as useful as you might think. Towards the end of ladder, items are worth peanuts (let's say for example a shako would sell for 10fg) and when a ladder begins, a shako will start around 3,000fg. Now you can definitely accrue enough wealth to get a shako much faster at the start of ladder, but your wealth is tanked for wanting to buy something so quickly. So unless you're willing to farm and sell 300 shakos at end of ladder value to buy one new shako, you wait for prices to drop to reasonable levels and have probably found enough other items in the meantime that would have equaled a trade for a shako in-game. To me, it's just a better barter/trading system that saves you time and effort rather than trying to communicate through D2's clunky comms.
Hundreds of highrunes... Dude, if there wasnt the rampant duping and botting, no one would have a hundred highrunes. I absolutely hate it when people speak of highrunes as if they are some once in a while rare drops. They are almost impossibly rare, it is unfathomable for someone that plays diablo 2 a few hours a day to reliably get any that they want. I sincerely want them to just make a ladder with no trading between others and increased drop rates to reasonable numbers. I despise trading in D2, partially because I know most of the things other people are selling are not earned.
Ladder reset is a clean state. Everyone starts with a level 1 character at the same time and it's just as hard for you to find a jah rune as someone with 50k forum gold. Never forget this when analyzing the impact of d2jsp.
@@andreasvogel4163he said ladder reset is supposed to be a fresh start and d2jsp ruins it. That is just straight up wrong. The fresh start aspect is preserved in every conceivable way.
I totally agree with you with all this. As a NON Ladder player, since I don’t have the time to compete in a ladder, I have been playing D2R non Ladder since the game launched. 3000 hours into the game all 100% Non Ladder. I use traderie which I like because it just facilitating normal person trades. The issue I have now is that because JSP exists, there are items that are in the 40 jah range. And like the only way a normal player would have that many Jah runes would be from making trades with JSP users. And for sure ladder is not attractive to me because its not really a true economy reset, because people on JSP carry their wealth from ladder to ladder. Like if you want that, then play non ladder. I get that JSP works for a lot of pvp players. Its where people trade for these GG items, but if there was another widely adopted system, if blizzard made their own auction house, it would be just as good.
@@Iffy50 yeah ladder and they do but if i find say an ist rune start of ladder if i want to trade that for a shako they are both hyper inflated so as a trader it makes no difference. Its only external currencies traded does it make any sort of difference
Great video. I only use Traderie and find it pretty good. Haven't found anything worth more than 40 Jah yet so no issues with trading. I don't want to use D2JSP because I honestly think I'd find the game boring, especially for ladder. If I was fully specked on day 3 of ladder I'd probably stop playing. I start ladder with a particular end game build in mind that I want to achieve, and it usually takes me 3 months to get there. When I do get there though I find it extremely rewarding, feels like I earned it.
@@duncanedgin9433 Unless something has changed it's just a listing site where you trade items for items. Instead of sitting in game waiting forever you put up an advert and people can contact you with offers. No forum gold or anything like that.
I feel like adding a diablo style forum gold into the game directly serves no purpose. If you wanted to trade for items using another currency, literally everyone can start using in-game gold to start trading right now. Least gold has little value to the game, repairing items, buying ship items like pots, scrolls, socket items, etc, and can't forget about gambling, and lastly, hiring and resurrecting your merc. But adding in Blizzards' own forum gold will just be the same problem now. It's a 3rd party currency that has no real value in the game other than facilitating trades larger than 40 Jah. It can't be crafted into anything, can't be a rune or a gem to be socketed, it's not an ite., it's just vaporware currency in a game that has finicky trading as is. The real solution and everyone knows this is to add stackable runes and gems. Literally, with this one change, it would fix trading. Blizzard would just have to enable the stackable runes and gems to be tradable while stacked. The system would have to be very clear and concise so you could tell how many runes or gems are in the stack. There's no need to go down this rabbit hole of making Blizzard create a currency that has no use in the game other than to just make big trades. I do, however, agree they need a better lobby system or a different tab or something that acts as a "trade lobby." So instead of seeing other games and the chat on the left. Make a button to click that takes you to a whole new window with a dedicated UI like an auctionhouse with different chat channels for different item categories. And have these trades be able to sit there while you're logged off. Either leave a bidding system or have a good PM/in-game mail system to contact players while their offline or in games farming.
at first I was against jsp, but when I started playing actively I needed a place to trade and jsp turned out to be the only place where I can buy and sell in a few seconds. jsp is a part of d2
I can farm up fg, ladder reset hits, day 1, i buy a shako,. nigma with currency from the previous season, completely removing the whole reason to play the game which is to slowly get stornger with the gear progression system, not start with end game gear instantly.
Comparatively, a Shako on launch week is probably 1000ish or so FG, compared to the 40 it drops down to within a month, so the question is: who is really winning here? @@SuperZakaru
@Dark_side9999 you say this like people can't buy fg directly from the site or even cheaper method from the jsp back market where 1k fg is 10 bucks. Or even cheaper in bulk. Also, I can make over 100kfg in the first week almost every ladder reset selling Classic Rushes on hardcore.
If blizzard wants to get rid of third party trading sites, and doesn't want to spend time/money adding a better trading system into an old game (via patch or expansion), blizz could just come up with their own trading site, and make the site cover all ARPGs and Looter-shooters they have and/or might dream up in the future. it wouldn't eliminate third party sites, but it might help them cut off some amount of future business from being sent to third party sites. if it covers all tradeable items across all past and future blizzard games, they wouldn't just be doing it for "this old game" they'd be doing it to help support and sell future games, they could also advertise other games and merch there... it's a win-win, more money for blizz.
or at least an api like poe has... poe lets you list items for sale directly from your stash and lets trade sites pick it up via api, so multiple trading sites can pick up the same items, meaning the market is more consolidated and prices make more sense. this + better trade system would be huge
That's actually a good idea with the ingame store. The currency might be collectable while playing, just small amounts from random drops from bosses, or as rewards for events that pop up randomly few times a day.
This ladder season was the worst ever for botting. The rarest items in the game were tanking by 20-50% everyday from day 1. Never ever have we seen Shaco @ 100Fg on Day 2, it was absolute madness. Definitely an eye opener
@@thekillawookie7104 yep, even if they would actually do banwaves, botters for sure stocked up immensly on copys. I hope they will introduce an ai learning ban program as they did with ow. But its definately not worth it for them so i guess that will never happen :D
@@thekillawookie7104 I don't think bot'ers need keys as I have not heard of a ban. It's odd as a theory in the past was that the more key banning the more moony they make
I think the biggest issue for this is because its not just 1 realm, its the whole world that can share items. Used to be US West only. Or US East only. europe only. couldn't trade between them. now it doesn't matter, they can just swap realms and trade.
Blizzard tried to make a d2jsp with early D3. I thought it was great! I could make a living just playing video games. I play and have fun sell gg items to some dude that doesn’t have time to find them. Also every game with trading has RMT. Because of rmt blizzard makes stricter and stricter restrictions on trading in their games which doesn’t feel good at all. If I see a good item I’ll never use I just have to trash it. For d2r I don’t think d2jsp ruines the game, instead of trading my corn for your potatoes like less developed countries I sell the corn for 1 currency and I can do whatever I want with that. Sure they have roll over fg but if you find something good you could make a lot of fg early on in the season for items later down the line if you want. Or never trade but do the online experience. There’s tons of ways to play and I think d2jsp helped a lot keep the game alive. Effective trading keeps games alive
100% with your number 5 point, D2jsp really does take a bit of fun out of the game. When I used D2jsp for a bit I felt like I was playing the "D2jsp market" instead of actually playing D2 and that really wasn't much fun.
It ruins the game for non JSP users and devalues items. People with accumulated FG can get fully geared with GG gear in less than 3 days at the start of ladder. It's absolutely unfair and it's not even debatable. @@Digitalgems9000
Yes... but that can be a whole other part of the game... easy to not use. Iv never traded a thing in my life. But for some people, searching those valuable items knowing there is a place to sell them. That's a whole new dimension
Been a JSP member since 2007, I have never been scammed. Follow the 2/3 rule on who gives first OR just always use a JSP Mediator (Its free). You will never get scammed using the mediator on JSP. As for the wealth that crosses over to Ladder reset, it is just part of the trade off. It is no different then someone with 20x Ber Runes from NL and trading it for a week 1 Vex Rune on Ladder. I personally avoid using FG at the start of the reset just because I enjoy the grind. I do though take advantage of the "investment trading" in JSP, sell everything for the first 2 weeks and then buy it all back 3 weeks later. Week 1 Ber on HC Ladder, sold it for 7k FG. Then 2-3 weeks later use that same FG and buy back 2x Ber and a Jah Rune. Sell that day 1 Shako for 2k FG and buy it back a week later for 500fg. My favorite is selling a Sol rune an hour into Ladder reset for 300fg.
i used jsp for years and only got scammed once. my literal first ever trade. 4 plain fire gcs and the other person stole them lmfao. it was funny bc my friend spent like a week convicning me that i wouldnt get scammed and it happened on my first trade. he had a bunch of his friends dump their mules on me bc they all found it hilarious/sad for me
i just started using it around 2 months into season 4 and got scammed with Nx Set keys for only around a hundred fg. It's so sad to see people lose their personalities for some cheap virtual coin.
Good old days... getting rich by selling ingame gold, pgs, spirit or insight rune packs. Then returning after 2 months to buy high runes for the same price :)
Both trading in either the game itself and on d2jsp has risks and issues. However, I still think trading in d2jsp is far superior. You can post old items in greater quantity, you can see the current value for more fairer pricing, there can be a universal currency, find more venues to trade, and so forth. Also, some people may not have the time to mf ber runes. This is what makes ladder resets fun for me. It’s not perfect but it’s a better alternative than sitting in game to wait for someone to trade saying, “My Ist for your Jah” games.
pretty bad excuse mate. its fine to play single player but even if you played online its not like they will affect your characters. You just cucked yourself from being able to make friends or join a legit discord trade community
Item rarity is what makes D2 as good as it is. LoD also benefited IMMENSELY from older patches and glitched items. Without these incredibly rare items to chase but never be able to just 'find' them people played much longer than they would have in another game. I really think the trading system in D2 is better than any other rpg except for PoE in some ways. PoE has TOO many currencies now though, and being able to essentially create perfect or near perfect rares on demand (if you have enough currency) ruins the chase.
PoE has a ton of "legacy" gear AKA old patch gear you can't get anymore, just like old .08 gear. The gear is also insane, so sometimes it makes sense when they nerf them. Ashes of the Stars just got nerfed this new expansion, so now the only way to get the old one is to get a "legacy" one on Standard league, or non ladder for D2. Just like with D2 I'd play ladder to get currency/gear just to pimp out my non ladder or Standard characters more, as these games are at the most fun for me when my characters are the most broken they can be.
Saying if you have enough currency is a wild thing to say. The amount of currency you need is really quite high. I don't enjoy PoE because they balance it like a damn esport. The items aren't the problem.
@Setixir But there is a path to DO IT. That's what I don't like. Even if you don't want a 100% perfect Belton-esque rare to sell as a mirror service you could come fairly close with t2 mods for a small small fraction of the price. In D2 the rares that are anywhere even near perfect are all trophies in their own right and are extremely expensive and RARE. In PoE there's an "easy" path to it, it just involves currency. The only way in D2 similar would be rushing characters / leveling them and constantly doing Charsi imbue quests with the base you wanted - that's the closest thing and it's completely unviable as a real strategy. I like the lotto odds of D2 better, it just makes seeing those items so much cooler.
So true. I would say problem number 4 is that because the currency exists outside of the ladder season, the inflation is beyond enormous. That of course is a good thing for issue 3, at least if you want to buy a decent item on day one of the ladder, you are paying a fortune for it, but it does screw the economy a bunch. You have to just sell everything you find and dont use asap before it loses 95% of its value. Biggest different experience is that i used jsp extensively and never had any issues with scammers whatsoever.
I find it funny how everyone was so but hurt about the D3 auction house that blizzard had to remove it but everyone seems to be fine with D2JSP... i dont get it
A small, vocal minority shouted with amplified voices (like MrLlamaSC) so Blizzard removed it. Most people were perfectly fine with the AH in Diablo 3. This world has become run by minorities that shout.
d2 jsp, specifically forum gold and its dominance of trading is the second worst thing to happen to d2 online for all the points you accurately mentioned. The worst thing being blizzards neglect. i.e. gold RMT bots constantly spamming and bots in general, which does tie into jsps toxicity. People saying that d2 JSP is the reason D2 is stil so popular are doing the community a disservice, its not d2 jsp thats kept it alive, it is the players themselves, if JSP wasn't there we would default to the next easiest system of trading. There is no point sugar coating it JSP is a cancer on the game and its commendable that the community and players managed to play with or without it ruining the experience, because they enjoy the game. If you dispute it you can look at private servers and game mods and see that enjoyment of the game comes first over having a perfect currency and outlet to trade with, the community just adapts and uses the best option available. Giving d2jsp any credit beyond crediting them perpetuating botting, rmt and making new ladders less of a challenge is kidding yourselves.
Pretty bad argument i would sell item on g2g and save the money in my paypal balance..... this isnt a jsp issue. infact g2g is way bigger and has 1000's of games. Before that way ebay etc. Think outside the box mate. I actually sell items on many private servers on g2g.... Where d2jsp is different from other RMT sites is that any normal user can collect fg without spending a dime of their own money.
This is all built-in in POE. 1. Right click item, set price 2. … 3. Profit But you have to buy a premium (shop) stash tab for like $5 or post your items manually on the official forum (they still show up in all searches)
While i do agree with this, i believe they tried something similar with the auction house in D3. Pretty sure now that its microsoft owned, they would see dollar signs and would be more inclined to do pay to win.
Set up a separate realm/area/level just for ingame trading/advertising and done. Have seen this in other games works greatly. The best feature I have seen withing that system was, that you could morph your character into a shop with like 10 slots in it and it would be online as long as you are logged in. Or rework the gold entirely (deflation + uncap) and implement an ingame auction house.
The whole point is that you never know where ANYONE got their item from. If we went by what you say then we wouldn't be able to trade at all with anyone ever unless we support d2jsp, which is a ridiculous argument. If anything, your statement proves that d2jsp shouldn't exist, so we can be less distrustful on the origin of items.
It's bad faith, usually he uses community to push a certain special event. A big part of his content is solo self found. Heck, not even a fan of him and I'm somewhat aware what's his content is about.
It's not bad faith. If he mentions he needs something during stream there will always be people willing to give it to him. And this is for all streamers, not just him.
I've been using Jsp since early D2 20 years ago, I miss trading and wish D4 had all items tradeable. It was more than half the fun of the game and a solution to RNG when I don't have hundreds/thousands of hours to farm. I have friends who have such bad RNG luck they quit, and this helps out with that. It doesn't bother me what someone else has in a game or how they got it, I'm here to have fun that's it!
I wouldn’t mind jsp but what about new ladders? You don’t start with zero currency. You start with the gold from the last season. This felt super wrong to me.
If they made vendor prices lower and made gold a lot more scares. As rare as like some of the lower runes. It might help than it would take a really long time to generate gold and you could hold a lot more gold.
Man do I hate d2jsp. So much that I don't want to play ladder or online in general because wealth transfers between ladders and has been around for some for nearly 2 decades. Plus can 'donate' and get the forum gold that way too. I always refuse to trade with people who admit to using it. It's so widespread though it's almost impossible to escape. Recently tried D2R classic to see if I could switch to it and get rid of the majority of the power of runes and runewords on d2jsp but went as a throwing barbarian and found out quickly in classic that only white throwing weapons exist. Really ruins the competitive spirit of the game and I hate it so much.
Eh, agree to disagree. I still play solo self found and sell valuable stuff I find there because I just like the idea of showcasing and/or pawning off valuable items that I find, and it's the best way to do it. I've rarely bought anything there, and usually it's with fg that I've earned off my trades in Non ladder and it's usually stuff I can't be assed to go get myself (tons of pskulls to reroll diadems, larzuk services, etc.). You do you though boo.
A special currency might not be totally necessary if you can specify what your item(s) trades for. Naturally players would figure out their own currency. You sell your listed Shako for one Ist, or reverse. A rune / charm / jewel based currency economy would probably naturally form. The ease and instant automatic transactions could help with what is annoying about this in website trading.
I think runescape has has the perfect solution for this for quite some time in the form of platinum tokens and spirit shards. basically easily convertible stackable trade currency that has a set conversation rate. 25 gold per spirit shard both ways and 1,000 gold per plat token both ways.
I hear all of this. Even the most recent bots from OG D2 run off of JSP script Even still says By: Njaguar. And once they went trading. Same issue geared up super quickly and left feeling like "what do i do now?" and taking a 2 year break. So these days i avoid it all and it feels great to find stuff.
Late reply, but since a new ladder is about to start: Yes, yes you can. Trade low runes for spirit and insight in early ladder - along with other useful items like keys. A few weeks later, when prices drop, you can buy your high runes. Or just trade a lot of spirit packs and do it that way.
Thoughts on how to generate the currency: a special vendor that gives "gold" or W/E instead of gold, based on the rarity of the drop. Primarily runes but also set and unique items. Since I'm primarily a WoW player, that's the context I can use to describe the system. Normal uniques/set items give a few silver, nightmare/hell items give a few gold to hundreds of gold for items that are rare but not particularly useful, runes start at a few copper for el to several gold (each worth 10k copper) for mid runes to several hundred gold for high runes. Players have the choice of vendoring items and runes to gain a fixed amount of gold or putting them on the auction house for potentially more gold if someone is willing to pay for it. Auction house should be structured similar to WoW's but with variable time frames up to 30 days rather than 48 hours. Bid or bin options as the player chooses. For NL ONLY have the special vendor sell runes for gold, at a rate much higher than what they pay for the runes or even what a player could cube the runes for. In most situations buying those runes from the AH should be cheaper than buying from the vendor but this would cover something like needing a Zod when none are listed. That would be a disaster for ladder but fine for NL.
The simple solution is to not use D2jsp. I never have and never will. The problem is that not enough people do that, and thus it lives on, further damaging the D2 economy through inflation. Also, that Grief Berserker Axe @ 10:07 is painful to see due to the 26 durability on it. That person is going to be repairing it all of the time. One huge disagreement I have with you is that the creation of a new "currency" you build on ladder should NOT transfer over to the "eternal" realm. What you suggested there just creates the same problem on D2jsp - the transfer of wealth, which creates inflation and devalues everything, ruining trading. We don't want that on eternal realm. Also, I'm against the creation of a new type of "currency" to help simplify trading. One of the fun things about trading and economy in D2 is that you have to stay somewhat current and do a little bit of homework in order to know the value of things via various monies/currencies that already exist in the game, such as high runes, crafting runes, junk jewels, charms, misc pgems, higher-value pgems for crafting and rolling, tokens, keys, specific uniques and greens, the list goes on. I don't want some new overarching currency to replace all of this.
every game has the same thing, POE, last epoch,d4,guildwars,wolcen, AND Thousands of other games sell items, boosting and currency on g2g the difference between those and d2jsp is that on d2jsp you never have to spend a dime of your own money, you can trade it for forum gold and sell to those who would use real currency to buy fg. They are buying from you instead of the botters if you offer a good price. You avoiding jsp didnt help a danm thing it just made them more likely to buy from a botter.
The new currency could be just convertible back and forth from e.g. IST rune (e.g. 20 diablo dollars for 1 IST). It may not be perfect, but it allows to do it without creating a new item in the game (which brings a whole can of risks with it like changing meta etc.).
Didn't Blizzard use their own version D2JSP in D3 called "The Aution House"? Didn't Blizzard think it made finding items to easy so they shut it down for that reason? Am I the one missing something here?
They shut the RMAH down because most people DON’T want scummy Pay-to-Win in their games. Blizzard also *intentionally nerfed the drop rate* to “incentivize” people to use it.
Hey, I am thinking about getting back to D2 and wanted to purchase D2R, but have few questions since I will be playing only single player, is D2R like original DIablo were best rune words were blocked for Ladder only? I used to play pluggy mode where all rune words where avaiable for single player, also can you swap items in single player between your characters like in pluggy mode?
All runewords are unlocked in D2R single player. There are 4 stash tabs in D2R. Each character has 1 private stash tab and 3 shared stash tabs which are shared among ALL characters. It makes it easier to mule than vanilla but harder than PlugY. The stash size also got increased to 10x10. D2R is a mixed bag. The graphics are gorgeous along with the silky smooth 60 FPS but PlugY does NOT work with it. Thankfully _most_ of the QoL PlugY fixes ARE in D2R such as fixing the cow king portal bug. Probably the only thing you will miss from PlugY is being capped at 3 stash tabs and not being able rename them. LAN play being gone is the other one. I’ve been playing D2 for 23 years and still miss PlugY but D2R is a great remaster.
@@MichaelPohoreski Thanks for info, last thing I wanted to ask, are you still able to reset your skills like in plugy? or like in the original you can do it in total 3 times, 1 per normal/nightmare/hell play thro?
@@invoker5632 D2R has D2’s original skill reset system: farmable essences to craft a Token of Absolution along with Akira’s single use reset per difficulty. If you play D2R single player there is an online character editor to edit skills if farming essences is too time consuming for trying out builds.
I like d2jsp and won't change my mind. I never had much luck mfing, but I loved to convert lower crap items (junk jewels, pgs, lower runes, bases) to fg und shop items I really need. I started at 0. If you are against trading ingame items vs time(=money), you are against Traderie aswell. Same goes for secondary market (itemshops, ebay). It's always exchange time=money=other stuff(ingame items). It's for EVERYthing on earth. It's called capitalism.
I hate D2jsp, I blame them for corrupting Diablo II. Not wealth reseting with ladder reset, being real-money auction house (thing that we hated in Diablo III), gatekeeping new users from earning fg because of massive bot farms and fg-millioners, ability to earn fg from other games (e.g. Runescape) and use it in Diablo II, also security and privacy issues. The answer for this problems is Blizzard-backed in-game non-real-money Auction House like in Oldschool Runescape. For me it's a perfect solution. They can even create iron-man mode like in OSRS, where iron-man players can play alongside normal players, but can't trade with them, actually can't trade with anyone (tbh ultimate iron-man where players can't use their chest would be fun too).
The gate keeping, ahh indeed. I dont even have a D2JSP account and I could tell that people were doing that. Things like buying up every last griffons eye and hording them all to control the price. Its also made people infinitely greedy and prone to cheating with controller and scripts to loot things etc.
They can't fix the chat system and you want them to handle trading? Lol...I agree it should be in game, but, Big Business is exponentially disappointing. The greed is real!
Dueling is the best part of d2 and jsp gets me the specific gear I need for my build wo it id have no chance of getting specific equipment and inventory Id need to be competitive
I used d2jsp heavily back around '09, but it was very different back then. My experiences back then were great, but I've tried it more recently and it's changed a lot and not for the better.
For an in-game currency to work for trading, I think you would need a "central bank" within the game that always lets you exchange the currency for something with in-game value. Let's say 100 units of the currency always gets you an ist rune from the central bank, for example (Or, if you are afraid of flooding the game with ists, maybe just 40 pgems). Then it would be easy for people to assess what the currency is actually worth and prevent the value from dropping.
if blizzard made a PoE trade type site JSP wouldn't need to exist I agree with some of your points in theory, but I work 50+ hours a week, so being able to bank up FG over the course of a few ladders to say go hard on a PoE league is a great feature for me... some people may disagree, but I can do say 3X D2R ladder resets, end up with 4-5k FG, and now be able to get a pretty solid char up and running in a PoE league (be careful trading for FG on PoE, that's a quick ban)
I’ve always wondered why they couldn’t develop an in game auction house similar to WOW classic. Obviously gold is not super valuable in d2 but would it be that hard to make some bidding tool to put up items or runes for the seller to accept or reject but who knows I could be missing something to do with the way servers are set up that would prevent that.
Some people play D2 for the PVP part of the game. Not everyone wants to spend over 1000 hours farming for that Enigma just to have a sliver of a chance in competetive PVP. If you make things like high runes so unlikely to drop, trading and scamming are bound to happen. Also D3 had an auction house, if you remember. For some reason it got removed. Everything the game needs is a double inventory window of both players, both can see the content, both have to agree on the trade. Maybe something like a "Horadric Trading Cube"
D2Jsp helped me a lot in my first d2r ladder season. I found a Griffons on day 2 of ladder and traded it for a bunch of forum gold as my first ever trade on Jsp. I was then able to farm for the first week, wait for prices to go down, and then convert all of that value off of an early griffons into a bunch of high runes to gear up my characters. Jsp is really the only way to take advantage of the inflated value of early drops.
The problem in traderie and d2jsp is fake bids. People use multiple accs to push the price. Real worth of 20/5 is 1k. Is very complicate to explain the system and strategie of this people. By careful in tradeing.
diablo 2 could put in a new trader where you trade runes for a currency such as "forum gold" and were able to buy any rune for said currency which would give it value. Gives you a currency to trade for items and also fixes the seasonal problem. Its important that it doesnt drop said currency in game though note im 15 mins in when posting this i expect llama to mention something like this
I think running bots at a small personal level to find loot and level is fun but some people do it on a huge scale to make it a job and that just kills it.
Disagree. I think using JSP (and traderie even) help new players identify what items are good/useful/sought after and not just chuck em on the ground when they see a blue monarch with some sockets and block chance. It also lends to making any play style more fun. Rune farming/leveling/gold finding/rare jewel hunting crafting, so many more drops mean something when you can assign value to it. And if anything a NEW NEW player? They benefit the most from any of this. With or without JSP they’re starting with nothing. Without JSP they’re stuck holding the bag if they find a gfg item at the start of ladder. With JSP they get paid off. I played d2 single player for about 6 years on and off throughout my life, and the most fun I’ve ever had with this game has been when the drops were this meaningful
Pretty bad argument if there was not d2jsp i would sell item on g2g and save the money in my paypal balance..... this isnt a jsp issue. infact g2g is way bigger and has 1000's of games.
I think it'd be interesting if, in addition to having a trading system or auction house between players, there was also a system with the game's vendor NPCs. Each unique item, set item, and rune can have a preassigned sale value and purchase value (purchase probably being considerably higher than sale, so that you can deterministically purchase items you want with enough play). More variable items like rare and crafted items probably wouldn't fit into this system, so they could be exclusive to the player trading.
Hardcore classic ladder probably has the best economy if you enjoy magic finding and trading. There's no bots that I'm aware of and items keep their value for a much much longer time.
What about trades for unspecified items? I.e. I am willing to buy the best tri-res boots for my budget. This kind of trade is only possible on a forum-like trading ground
While it has its downfalls, the ease of access and ability to make quick trades makes JSP necessary. I agree the best solution would be for Blizzard to create an in game system, but we have to roll with what we got for now.
I've thought myself, wouldn't it be nice to have a system as convenient as D2JSP, but without people bringing in FG from older seasons or different games, etc. But then, new season drops, no one can purchase or import FG into the system, so how do people people buy/sell things without currency, and we arrive back at having to use ingame items as currency.
Hey, this new series of videos made me think about LAN offline. Why is there no LAN Offline? Thanks for the videos, I also love the new play through series.
As an old school D2 player I learned about D2jsp during the LoD days. I remember the gate keeping for new traders with 0 fg. All I wanted was an easier way to get large amounts of crafting materials like 40 p gems, or 40 of the relevant rune. I had always got every single waypoint in every difficulty so traded waypoints for a few fg to buy my materials with. D2jsp and bot found items is our unfortunate reality, but as a casual it has its uses. Just an observation, these recent D2 videos definitely have an essay feel to them. Also, any updates on llama rpg for us UA-cam folks?
D2jsp exists over decades cuz there is a need for some ppl to play efficient in several ways: - Time on earth ist limited, some have jobs that simply dont allow legit grinding at a certain level, so im okay with that "workaround". - I love the fact that jsp allows me to transfer from ladder to nl without loosing the invested time aka wealth, reset has always been a real turnoff to me, cuz when its between improving gear without time limitation and gathering wealth (nl) VS loosing anything and start allover again and again (lad), i prefer #1. Like i prefer 1 top car instead of 20 crap ones. - Last and probably the most important aspect: i can cash out from D2R and did not waste all that time and value investment, or just invest the Forumgold in other games. I agree that it makes the game less intense / thrilling to take that short route, but on the other hand, if ur into pvp or like mentioned short on freetime, its a gamechanger. A friend of mine works in shifts, even on saturdays and sundays, when D2R launched it was the only way for him to keep up so that we could play together at a same level (charlevel/gear/general progress).
As much as I like this idea and agree the major downside is that it blizzard takes over a d2jsp type system inside the game what's stopping them from being the ones that sell the FG. They won't build a new part of the game just to support trading in the game for free they will need to make money somehow. Either they will sell the FG like they do in Diablo immortal or start charging a monthly service fee just to access the game. They can't put labor into a system without it making them money somehow.
You mean the one he had someone else trade for forum gold, wait a couple days for the bots to ruin the economy like they always do and then buy bis gear at a cheap price and gave it away to his viewers for supporting him in that run and in his career.
Well-thought out analysis, too bad activision-blizzard-microsoft-ubisoft-myspace -bethesda doesn't care about D2R since it most-likely has generated mere pennies compared to D4
I wish they would open up trading in all Diablo games. I don't really play every class and when you get a nice unique in D4 that you can't use it's scrap time and even then the scrap is mostly worthless. I miss the auction house that D3 used to have. That was super convenient without having to use a sketchy third party site. Something like that would be great for D2/D3/D4. Imagine if they took it one step further and made it a part of the Battlenet App and allowed trading across versions. That would be cool.
the problem was the 250 euro thing with the auction house. and that there was rmt in the first place. and blizzard getting a huge cut. and even then there was items so insanely great rolled that people traded off plattform on ebay and such cause they couldn't get the value they thought was appropriate. and then they introduced this bug into the ah. i don't fully remember how it worked but it was something about having an item there for not real money but ingame gold and if you canceled or something you would get double the gold or something along those lines. it was only some hours for this to exist before the ah got taken down and hotfixed but it allowed people to generate bazillions of igg which in turn ruined the entire economy back then. after that it wasn't long until the ah got scrapped entirely. i mean even before that blizz said that the ah did more harm to the game than benefit so it was a matter of time anyway.
I agree with all of this, but I highly doubt that MS/Acti/Blizz will put the time/resources into something like this without also making their own RMT system of some sort that they could profit off of.
I original found d2jsp back in the day looking for a bot like 2003ish? But also does not support botting since around 2005 and any mention of it on its forums gets you instantly banned.
Meridian XL runs on forum gold sales if you want to progress at a certain point, it's why i left the game as i already conquered all the "free" content and the only content left in Median XL was (and still is) the content you either needed the incredibly rare item drop to do or buy it for forum gold. The difference here tho, is that i can still do 100% of D2R without the top GG items, can't do that in Median XL :D
Buying blizzard-forum-gold-analogue for in-game gold can increase gold utility. Also, selling bliz-gold for real money can stimulate ms to introduce in-game auction.
Tbh the wealth carryover is the main reason i use jsp. I play a bit here and there and dont have time to farm all the stuff i need for a full char. I found a mega valuable trires boots in s1, and that sale has equipped every toon i made since. Selling nl stuff for ladder dtuff is awesome too. If blizz did their own forum it would not work. Most people on jsp want the wealth transfer.
The problem is Diablo 2 devs have given up on this game, it means that someone has had to take matters in their own hands. They refuse to listen to their player base which has lead to a loss of revenue on their behalf. As far as JSP goes, I think it's quite effective - I personally have never been scammed by trading with trusted players who are conscious of their account being banned. The ladder resets are disappointing but realistically very few people are actually going to invest the time to rush to 99. I do agree that buying full characters can take the fun out of the game but at the same time, as a solo online player who doesn't use the trade feature, it can be incredibly frustrating to level up and find gear just to do some basic magic finding
Doubt that a external solution will do much. It is a difference of approach towards the game or anything really. This can go surprisingly deep. In the end people will take joy out of their activity very differently. The spectrum from hobbyist to professionals touches so many things and can be nuanced but on the surface it goes from spending money to making money while "wasting time". Anyone on that spectrum will reevaluate if their time is well spend. Personally I play ssf specifically d2 lod eth grail or with rl friends d2r and other games that don't trade with others as it quickly sucks the joy out of it for us.
Yea theres a bout 6 of us that still play together and one of our friends just wait a few weeks each reset then full kits out a hammerdin with his FG he has saved up and doesn't understand why none of us wanna play with him.
I've been saying it since season 1 started and everybody told me stfu. Nice to see llama finally say it, whatever you think of JSP is fine, some people think it hurts, some that it helps, I think it does both. But as llama said and I have been screaming and no amount of trolling or countering will change my mind. FG rolling over into new ladder seasons ruins ladder, you cannot deny that, it's in the very definition and purpose of latter.
I can't imagine a scenario in which Blizzard spends development time on fixing trading in the way you said, and doesn't give an option to buy the new currency for real money, sadly. You might say that d2jsp is selling their currency already, so what the difference for the player. Imo the difference is huge, when bought from blizzard it's 100% safe, it's "morally cleaner" because it's approved by blizzard and finally it's way way more convenient when you can buy it without leaving the game for a second. It's sad reality, I'm sure that Blizzard could fix the issue, but I just don't believe that they really want to do it without taking an opportunity for big big money.
I don't think Blizzard has the know-how to fix trading. This company is in a death spiral of incompetence.
I've played ladders without jsp, ladders with jsp, now with the shared stash i just play single player. most fulfilling d2 experience after all these years.
same
ive yet to try it. besides baal runs and getting rushed, most of my mf was by myself.
been hearing this a lot tho. maybe ill give it a try
best HC experience as well - no more dieing to de-sync which is like 90% of deaths anyway
aight
A toxic wasteland of necessity is maybe the best way I've ever heard jsp described
First there was UA-cam voice, now he's doing UA-cam *face* 😮
It's the same face
i call it "youtube googley eyes" he's smitten by us.
Even if it is. This method proven to work here, why mess with the formula.
@@MrLlamaSCexcellent, he's taken the bait
:)
@@turbo_brianall i see is a black screen. Maybe i have to pay ever more
i like using JSP strictly for assigning in game value to my items. for example, how many HRs should i charge for x item? i go to jsp and get the FG value for the item and compare it to the FG value for the runes, then charge that many runes lol
The problem with that is that a ridiculous amount of people don't know, or don't care what jsp is, what their made up price of their made up gold is and therefore will not pay the price you ask.
The only way you get these astronomical prices is from other people with said made up gold
Blizzard will never be able to solve this problem for D2. Look at World of Warcraft. They have an in game currency that is useful, and it results in mass botting and gold buying which would ruin the Diablo 2 Ladder's same way JSP does. I don't mind people having mass wealth going into a ladder season because if you take away D2Jsp currency, it just goes back to real life money becoming the wealth people have going into a season when they can buy a Jah rune for USD instead of forum gold. Regulating that is very difficult, as look at WoW and their gold buying and mass botting issue. I think solving the botting issue would be the best thing to do for the economy (easier said than done), whereas limiting pay 2 win is basically impossible in a system of trading due to IRL money existing.
PD2 could add a currency that drops from boss kills or terror zones or some well thought out system, but they would have to give the currency value other than trade because otherwise it is worthless currency.
Project Diablo 2's economy isn't perfec, but it feels soo much better knowing jspers and botters aren't running rampant devaluing everything. Ladder resets actually force you to grind for gear and currency, and even weeks into the reset you know your drops will still have value. I've also never been scammed on PD2, people for the most part are a pleasure to trade with. There's so much trust in the community people don't even use the trade window, just drop your items and runes and go on your merry way.
I've been trading on jsp since 2008. jsp doesn't ruin the value of things, botters do. Items maintained their value VERY well when D2R came out. In season 2 values plummeted compared to season 1. The bot programs were written and were being used. I hated it. I have 100's of trades on jsp and I can't remember being scammed. It does happen, but it's usually on absurdly expensive gear. If you trade properly using recommended practices, jsp has an excellent recovery system. The mods can just refund your forum gold and take it away from the scammer.
you drastically underestimate how much stronger/faster/better botters are compared to the average d2jsp user...
@@Iffy50This was mostly my experience. I think I've only ever been scammed once out of thousands of trades. I just followed the 2/3 rule. Only once did that ever fail. Most people aren't going to risk losing an '08 jsp account over a low value scam. People will more likely go scam in the poker forum...lol
Talk to my auto quester - bot plays the game for me all the way to hell then magic finds and gears itself depending on the build now multiply that by 12 😂 day 2 I’m already feeding off jspers gold currency and so are every d2 item store. Jsp is not the problem, the problem has always been bots.
I don't think it needs a separate currency, just make HRs and gems stackable.
that would be so great. or just simply make this currency tab in the stash already that is just for runes, keys, organs, gems etc. where you stack them on top of each other. i have like mules over mules for gems and runes and items. it's just dumb. especially for torches and annys that basically force you to clutter up the shared stash because you can't dump multiple on a single char. at least you should be able to have multiple in the personal stash and keep the 1 per char limit only for the inventory. i understand the limit makes sense so you can't load up the char with 40 annys but it could be done better imho. just count the first one and "deactivate" the others. so you can have as many as you want but only the first that goes inside the inventory counts.
just make two servers, one for ppl who dont care about pay to win and just want to trade, and a solo-self found servers.
We actually tried this experiment in 2016, when half the player based cried they wanted D3 solo self found.
So it was made solo-self found. And everyone quit within 6 months. Even the ones who cried for it.
All of this was really well thought out which is no surprise coming from MrLlamaSC. One counterpoint I'd make from a business standpoint, D2R was meant primarily to bring in old players for the nostalgia. The resources required to overhaul the lobby and implement a trading system the way you described won't be worth the financial investment from Blizzard when the playerbase has already been established. Blizzard isn't going to bring in millions of new players (and the corresponding revenue) by improving the existing game. They'd have a lot more fiscal success making these changes in a new game and then marketing that game. The only way I can see them making these improvements in D2R would be if they wrap them in some kind of new expansion for D2/D2R that they can then market to new players (which would be absolutely fantastic) but now you're talking years of development and a ton more resources
I've been saying a similar thing. Great point Deathsea
1 Key thing you missed is that it allows you to accumulate larger amounts of wealth with much smaller trades. For example someone could farm spirit or insight packs and sell them for 1 or 2fg until they have enough to buy a Ber rune. Do the same for a Jah and it enables someone who couldn't otherwise afford it to trade for an Enigma. Also JSP does offer mediators to keep trades safe.
The transfer of wealth between ladders is EXACTLY why I personally dislike it. I'd even prefer people have to go spend money every season to get more fg instead of just starting with wealth would help prolong the time it takes for people to get stuff. RMT is still bad but at least it would hurt peoples wallets. Not just sell off all your stuff when you are done for the season and then use it to purchase what you need next season early on.
Yeah it is the reason i haven't taken D2 ladder seriously. I have played a few ladders for fun but i always know people will buy items for FG while im spending a whole day mfing for junk
I've done about 10+ D2 ladders. (not just D2R) I have 7442 fg right now, but I always write down what my total is before I start the new season and I don't use any legacy fg. It's still MUCH better to trade through jsp. I can find what I need fast and I can sell what I have to sell fast.
I certainly don't disagree that there can be a transfer of wealth but it's not as useful as you might think. Towards the end of ladder, items are worth peanuts (let's say for example a shako would sell for 10fg) and when a ladder begins, a shako will start around 3,000fg. Now you can definitely accrue enough wealth to get a shako much faster at the start of ladder, but your wealth is tanked for wanting to buy something so quickly. So unless you're willing to farm and sell 300 shakos at end of ladder value to buy one new shako, you wait for prices to drop to reasonable levels and have probably found enough other items in the meantime that would have equaled a trade for a shako in-game. To me, it's just a better barter/trading system that saves you time and effort rather than trying to communicate through D2's clunky comms.
Yes that broke it for me.
the fact that you prefer rmt over someone playing the game consistently over time, accumulating wealth, is hilarious.
Hundreds of highrunes... Dude, if there wasnt the rampant duping and botting, no one would have a hundred highrunes. I absolutely hate it when people speak of highrunes as if they are some once in a while rare drops. They are almost impossibly rare, it is unfathomable for someone that plays diablo 2 a few hours a day to reliably get any that they want.
I sincerely want them to just make a ladder with no trading between others and increased drop rates to reasonable numbers. I despise trading in D2, partially because I know most of the things other people are selling are not earned.
High runes are available now. You should check how rare they were before 1.12 (or was it 1.13...?).
Ladder reset is a clean state. Everyone starts with a level 1 character at the same time and it's just as hard for you to find a jah rune as someone with 50k forum gold. Never forget this when analyzing the impact of d2jsp.
you completely missed his point
@@andreasvogel4163he said ladder reset is supposed to be a fresh start and d2jsp ruins it. That is just straight up wrong. The fresh start aspect is preserved in every conceivable way.
I totally agree with you with all this. As a NON Ladder player, since I don’t have the time to compete in a ladder, I have been playing D2R non Ladder since the game launched. 3000 hours into the game all 100% Non Ladder. I use traderie which I like because it just facilitating normal person trades. The issue I have now is that because JSP exists, there are items that are in the 40 jah range. And like the only way a normal player would have that many Jah runes would be from making trades with JSP users. And for sure ladder is not attractive to me because its not really a true economy reset, because people on JSP carry their wealth from ladder to ladder. Like if you want that, then play non ladder. I get that JSP works for a lot of pvp players. Its where people trade for these GG items, but if there was another widely adopted system, if blizzard made their own auction house, it would be just as good.
yup jsp make the game worst for sure i saw a dude with enigma first day d2r was lauched, i asked how and he said jsp lul
@@WeedNoTobbacoooh no Really!?! that must have ruined your experience. Did you quit the game.
i use ladder to MAKE fg, not trade it. Stuff goes for massive prices the first 2 or 3 days.
@@Scorch428 what would you need to make FG if it didn’t exist? And all you could do was trade items?
Just a correction that a perfect grief pb sold for 150k fg. So a ba base will sell more. Also ChocolateCoveredGummyBears is damn hot.
It's amazing that d2jsp is still going after all these years, with its forum gold economy
the the values have remained pretty stable over like what 18 years its nuts
@@korlic9 Are you talking about the non-ladder? The ladder values change like crazy at the beginning of the ladder.
@@Iffy50 No. just saying the currencies. It's like crypto.
@@Iffy50 yeah ladder and they do but if i find say an ist rune start of ladder if i want to trade that for a shako they are both hyper inflated so as a trader it makes no difference. Its only external currencies traded does it make any sort of difference
the founders raked in that money.
the currency in that "perfect solution" is the most important factor in that equation, and the value that is attached to it
Great video. I only use Traderie and find it pretty good. Haven't found anything worth more than 40 Jah yet so no issues with trading. I don't want to use D2JSP because I honestly think I'd find the game boring, especially for ladder. If I was fully specked on day 3 of ladder I'd probably stop playing. I start ladder with a particular end game build in mind that I want to achieve, and it usually takes me 3 months to get there. When I do get there though I find it extremely rewarding, feels like I earned it.
Nowadays, what I do to avoid that is just spend all my fg every end of season and deck out the chharacters, then get a fresh start.
Traderie seems just as sketchy and exploitable lol
@@duncanedgin9433 Unless something has changed it's just a listing site where you trade items for items. Instead of sitting in game waiting forever you put up an advert and people can contact you with offers. No forum gold or anything like that.
@@duncanedgin9433 🤡no
I feel like adding a diablo style forum gold into the game directly serves no purpose. If you wanted to trade for items using another currency, literally everyone can start using in-game gold to start trading right now. Least gold has little value to the game, repairing items, buying ship items like pots, scrolls, socket items, etc, and can't forget about gambling, and lastly, hiring and resurrecting your merc.
But adding in Blizzards' own forum gold will just be the same problem now. It's a 3rd party currency that has no real value in the game other than facilitating trades larger than 40 Jah. It can't be crafted into anything, can't be a rune or a gem to be socketed, it's not an ite., it's just vaporware currency in a game that has finicky trading as is.
The real solution and everyone knows this is to add stackable runes and gems. Literally, with this one change, it would fix trading. Blizzard would just have to enable the stackable runes and gems to be tradable while stacked. The system would have to be very clear and concise so you could tell how many runes or gems are in the stack.
There's no need to go down this rabbit hole of making Blizzard create a currency that has no use in the game other than to just make big trades.
I do, however, agree they need a better lobby system or a different tab or something that acts as a "trade lobby." So instead of seeing other games and the chat on the left. Make a button to click that takes you to a whole new window with a dedicated UI like an auctionhouse with different chat channels for different item categories. And have these trades be able to sit there while you're logged off. Either leave a bidding system or have a good PM/in-game mail system to contact players while their offline or in games farming.
at first I was against jsp, but when I started playing actively I needed a place to trade and jsp turned out to be the only place where I can buy and sell in a few seconds. jsp is a part of d2
I can farm up fg, ladder reset hits, day 1, i buy a shako,. nigma with currency from the previous season, completely removing the whole reason to play the game which is to slowly get stornger with the gear progression system, not start with end game gear instantly.
Comparatively, a Shako on launch week is probably 1000ish or so FG, compared to the 40 it drops down to within a month, so the question is: who is really winning here? @@SuperZakaru
@Dark_side9999 you say this like people can't buy fg directly from the site or even cheaper method from the jsp back market where 1k fg is 10 bucks. Or even cheaper in bulk. Also, I can make over 100kfg in the first week almost every ladder reset selling Classic Rushes on hardcore.
Like homie said its just part of the game. "whole reason to play the game" is different for each player.
If blizzard wants to get rid of third party trading sites, and doesn't want to spend time/money adding a better trading system into an old game (via patch or expansion), blizz could just come up with their own trading site, and make the site cover all ARPGs and Looter-shooters they have and/or might dream up in the future. it wouldn't eliminate third party sites, but it might help them cut off some amount of future business from being sent to third party sites. if it covers all tradeable items across all past and future blizzard games, they wouldn't just be doing it for "this old game" they'd be doing it to help support and sell future games, they could also advertise other games and merch there... it's a win-win, more money for blizz.
probably the most likely chance we have
or at least an api like poe has... poe lets you list items for sale directly from your stash and lets trade sites pick it up via api, so multiple trading sites can pick up the same items, meaning the market is more consolidated and prices make more sense. this + better trade system would be huge
@@boocethebooce838 Huge sections of POE trading are operated by RMT. I would caution against holding up POE's framework as a model.
That's actually a good idea with the ingame store. The currency might be collectable while playing, just small amounts from random drops from bosses, or as rewards for events that pop up randomly few times a day.
This ladder season was the worst ever for botting. The rarest items in the game were tanking by 20-50% everyday from day 1. Never ever have we seen Shaco @ 100Fg on Day 2, it was absolute madness. Definitely an eye opener
The game going to roughly $15 for a copy during black friday sales aren't going to help:(
@@thekillawookie7104 yep, even if they would actually do banwaves, botters for sure stocked up immensly on copys. I hope they will introduce an ai learning ban program as they did with ow. But its definately not worth it for them so i guess that will never happen :D
"The rarest items in the game were tanking by 20-50% everyday from day 1" is this true n hard core ?
@@thekillawookie7104 I don't think bot'ers need keys as I have not heard of a ban. It's odd as a theory in the past was that the more key banning the more moony they make
I think the biggest issue for this is because its not just 1 realm, its the whole world that can share items. Used to be US West only. Or US East only. europe only. couldn't trade between them. now it doesn't matter, they can just swap realms and trade.
Blizzard tried to make a d2jsp with early D3. I thought it was great! I could make a living just playing video games. I play and have fun sell gg items to some dude that doesn’t have time to find them.
Also every game with trading has RMT. Because of rmt blizzard makes stricter and stricter restrictions on trading in their games which doesn’t feel good at all. If I see a good item I’ll never use I just have to trash it.
For d2r I don’t think d2jsp ruines the game, instead of trading my corn for your potatoes like less developed countries I sell the corn for 1 currency and I can do whatever I want with that. Sure they have roll over fg but if you find something good you could make a lot of fg early on in the season for items later down the line if you want. Or never trade but do the online experience. There’s tons of ways to play and I think d2jsp helped a lot keep the game alive. Effective trading keeps games alive
100% with your number 5 point, D2jsp really does take a bit of fun out of the game. When I used D2jsp for a bit I felt like I was playing the "D2jsp market" instead of actually playing D2 and that really wasn't much fun.
lmao cry more
@@Digitalgems9000 damn homie, didn't know you were so invested in how someone else plays a video game.
@@sakaraist imagine defending not using jsp
It ruins the game for non JSP users and devalues items. People with accumulated FG can get fully geared with GG gear in less than 3 days at the start of ladder. It's absolutely unfair and it's not even debatable. @@Digitalgems9000
Yes... but that can be a whole other part of the game... easy to not use. Iv never traded a thing in my life.
But for some people, searching those valuable items knowing there is a place to sell them.
That's a whole new dimension
Been a JSP member since 2007, I have never been scammed. Follow the 2/3 rule on who gives first OR just always use a JSP Mediator (Its free). You will never get scammed using the mediator on JSP. As for the wealth that crosses over to Ladder reset, it is just part of the trade off. It is no different then someone with 20x Ber Runes from NL and trading it for a week 1 Vex Rune on Ladder. I personally avoid using FG at the start of the reset just because I enjoy the grind. I do though take advantage of the "investment trading" in JSP, sell everything for the first 2 weeks and then buy it all back 3 weeks later. Week 1 Ber on HC Ladder, sold it for 7k FG. Then 2-3 weeks later use that same FG and buy back 2x Ber and a Jah Rune. Sell that day 1 Shako for 2k FG and buy it back a week later for 500fg. My favorite is selling a Sol rune an hour into Ladder reset for 300fg.
i used jsp for years and only got scammed once. my literal first ever trade. 4 plain fire gcs and the other person stole them lmfao. it was funny bc my friend spent like a week convicning me that i wouldnt get scammed and it happened on my first trade. he had a bunch of his friends dump their mules on me bc they all found it hilarious/sad for me
i just started using it around 2 months into season 4 and got scammed with Nx Set keys for only around a hundred fg. It's so sad to see people lose their personalities for some cheap virtual coin.
Good old days... getting rich by selling ingame gold, pgs, spirit or insight rune packs. Then returning after 2 months to buy high runes for the same price :)
@@schprimas Forum selling simulator, real fun.
@@JJ3nkins89 every game has the same thing, POE, last epoch,d4,guildwars,wolcen, AND Thousands of other games sell items,boosting and currency on g2g
Both trading in either the game itself and on d2jsp has risks and issues. However, I still think trading in d2jsp is far superior. You can post old items in greater quantity, you can see the current value for more fairer pricing, there can be a universal currency, find more venues to trade, and so forth. Also, some people may not have the time to mf ber runes. This is what makes ladder resets fun for me. It’s not perfect but it’s a better alternative than sitting in game to wait for someone to trade saying, “My Ist for your Jah” games.
I think the idea is sound but the idea of Blizzard investing substantial time into new D2R features at this stage feels like a fantasy to me.
There's optimism, and then there's realism. They haven't solved this in >20 years. It is what it is. It's an SSF life for me.
pretty bad excuse mate. its fine to play single player but even if you played online its not like they will affect your characters. You just cucked yourself from being able to make friends or join a legit discord trade community
Item rarity is what makes D2 as good as it is.
LoD also benefited IMMENSELY from older patches and glitched items. Without these incredibly rare items to chase but never be able to just 'find' them people played much longer than they would have in another game.
I really think the trading system in D2 is better than any other rpg except for PoE in some ways.
PoE has TOO many currencies now though, and being able to essentially create perfect or near perfect rares on demand (if you have enough currency) ruins the chase.
PoE has a ton of "legacy" gear AKA old patch gear you can't get anymore, just like old .08 gear. The gear is also insane, so sometimes it makes sense when they nerf them. Ashes of the Stars just got nerfed this new expansion, so now the only way to get the old one is to get a "legacy" one on Standard league, or non ladder for D2.
Just like with D2 I'd play ladder to get currency/gear just to pimp out my non ladder or Standard characters more, as these games are at the most fun for me when my characters are the most broken they can be.
Saying if you have enough currency is a wild thing to say. The amount of currency you need is really quite high. I don't enjoy PoE because they balance it like a damn esport. The items aren't the problem.
@Setixir But there is a path to DO IT. That's what I don't like.
Even if you don't want a 100% perfect Belton-esque rare to sell as a mirror service you could come fairly close with t2 mods for a small small fraction of the price.
In D2 the rares that are anywhere even near perfect are all trophies in their own right and are extremely expensive and RARE. In PoE there's an "easy" path to it, it just involves currency.
The only way in D2 similar would be rushing characters / leveling them and constantly doing Charsi imbue quests with the base you wanted - that's the closest thing and it's completely unviable as a real strategy.
I like the lotto odds of D2 better, it just makes seeing those items so much cooler.
When you farm for 10 hours with no results, trading the occy for a shako lookin real good.
You guys who think 10 hours is enough to get something good should find another game.
@@LetsPlayBojangles You mean 15+ years ago
No I will continue to farm.
That doesn't require d2jsp in any way though.
So true.
I would say problem number 4 is that because the currency exists outside of the ladder season, the inflation is beyond enormous. That of course is a good thing for issue 3, at least if you want to buy a decent item on day one of the ladder, you are paying a fortune for it, but it does screw the economy a bunch. You have to just sell everything you find and dont use asap before it loses 95% of its value.
Biggest different experience is that i used jsp extensively and never had any issues with scammers whatsoever.
I find it funny how everyone was so but hurt about the D3 auction house that blizzard had to remove it but everyone seems to be fine with D2JSP... i dont get it
A small, vocal minority shouted with amplified voices (like MrLlamaSC) so Blizzard removed it. Most people were perfectly fine with the AH in Diablo 3. This world has become run by minorities that shout.
d2 jsp, specifically forum gold and its dominance of trading is the second worst thing to happen to d2 online for all the points you accurately mentioned.
The worst thing being blizzards neglect. i.e. gold RMT bots constantly spamming and bots in general, which does tie into jsps toxicity.
People saying that d2 JSP is the reason D2 is stil so popular are doing the community a disservice, its not d2 jsp thats kept it alive, it is the players themselves, if JSP wasn't there we would default to the next easiest system of trading.
There is no point sugar coating it JSP is a cancer on the game and its commendable that the community and players managed to play with or without it ruining the experience, because they enjoy the game.
If you dispute it you can look at private servers and game mods and see that enjoyment of the game comes first over having a perfect currency and outlet to trade with, the community just adapts and uses the best option available.
Giving d2jsp any credit beyond crediting them perpetuating botting, rmt and making new ladders less of a challenge is kidding yourselves.
Pretty bad argument
i would sell item on g2g and save the money in my paypal balance..... this isnt a jsp issue. infact g2g is way bigger and has 1000's of games. Before that way ebay etc. Think outside the box mate.
I actually sell items on many private servers on g2g....
Where d2jsp is different from other RMT sites is that any normal user can collect fg without spending a dime of their own money.
The currency could be gold or 1b gold=1 That way it resets but you can still farm it in game. Might solve the whole gold is worthless thing
This is all built-in in POE.
1. Right click item, set price
2. …
3. Profit
But you have to buy a premium (shop) stash tab for like $5 or post your items manually on the official forum (they still show up in all searches)
While i do agree with this, i believe they tried something similar with the auction house in D3. Pretty sure now that its microsoft owned, they would see dollar signs and would be more inclined to do pay to win.
whilethe real money auction house in d3 was a bad move I honestly loved the regular auction house
Ladder Slasher is what d2jsp is all about.
Set up a separate realm/area/level just for ingame trading/advertising and done. Have seen this in other games works greatly. The best feature I have seen withing that system was, that you could morph your character into a shop with like 10 slots in it and it would be online as long as you are logged in. Or rework the gold entirely (deflation + uncap) and implement an ingame auction house.
Funny how streamer accepts “donation” during new ladders but doesn’t support d2jsp. I wonder where their viewers got their bers and jahs from 🤔.
The whole point is that you never know where ANYONE got their item from. If we went by what you say then we wouldn't be able to trade at all with anyone ever unless we support d2jsp, which is a ridiculous argument. If anything, your statement proves that d2jsp shouldn't exist, so we can be less distrustful on the origin of items.
@@ChizFreak I never said trade man. I am just staying viewers are donating their gear to stream which they gladly accepted.
It's bad faith, usually he uses community to push a certain special event. A big part of his content is solo self found. Heck, not even a fan of him and I'm somewhat aware what's his content is about.
It's not bad faith. If he mentions he needs something during stream there will always be people willing to give it to him. And this is for all streamers, not just him.
@@danplath1yet if you or I mention we need something we get shamed for it and told "go MF". Oh, like your botting program does for you?!
I've been using Jsp since early D2 20 years ago, I miss trading and wish D4 had all items tradeable. It was more than half the fun of the game and a solution to RNG when I don't have hundreds/thousands of hours to farm. I have friends who have such bad RNG luck they quit, and this helps out with that. It doesn't bother me what someone else has in a game or how they got it, I'm here to have fun that's it!
I wouldn’t mind jsp but what about new ladders? You don’t start with zero currency. You start with the gold from the last season. This felt super wrong to me.
If they made vendor prices lower and made gold a lot more scares. As rare as like some of the lower runes. It might help than it would take a really long time to generate gold and you could hold a lot more gold.
Man do I hate d2jsp. So much that I don't want to play ladder or online in general because wealth transfers between ladders and has been around for some for nearly 2 decades. Plus can 'donate' and get the forum gold that way too.
I always refuse to trade with people who admit to using it. It's so widespread though it's almost impossible to escape.
Recently tried D2R classic to see if I could switch to it and get rid of the majority of the power of runes and runewords on d2jsp but went as a throwing barbarian and found out quickly in classic that only white throwing weapons exist.
Really ruins the competitive spirit of the game and I hate it so much.
One of my biggest reasons for playing ssf mostly!
Eh, agree to disagree. I still play solo self found and sell valuable stuff I find there because I just like the idea of showcasing and/or pawning off valuable items that I find, and it's the best way to do it. I've rarely bought anything there, and usually it's with fg that I've earned off my trades in Non ladder and it's usually stuff I can't be assed to go get myself (tons of pskulls to reroll diadems, larzuk services, etc.). You do you though boo.
A special currency might not be totally necessary if you can specify what your item(s) trades for. Naturally players would figure out their own currency. You sell your listed Shako for one Ist, or reverse. A rune / charm / jewel based currency economy would probably naturally form. The ease and instant automatic transactions could help with what is annoying about this in website trading.
I think runescape has has the perfect solution for this for quite some time in the form of platinum tokens and spirit shards. basically easily convertible stackable trade currency that has a set conversation rate. 25 gold per spirit shard both ways and 1,000 gold per plat token both ways.
I was hacked years ago while being a active member of the community but was never able to recover my account. Lost trust in the site after that.
I hear all of this. Even the most recent bots from OG D2 run off of JSP script Even still says By: Njaguar. And once they went trading. Same issue geared up super quickly and left feeling like "what do i do now?" and taking a 2 year break. So these days i avoid it all and it feels great to find stuff.
Can you trade your way up to the best rune from like the most basic trash item with trading value?
Sort of. Save up Rals and Pgems. Rich mofos will occasionally trade puls for bulks of them.
Late reply, but since a new ladder is about to start: Yes, yes you can. Trade low runes for spirit and insight in early ladder - along with other useful items like keys. A few weeks later, when prices drop, you can buy your high runes. Or just trade a lot of spirit packs and do it that way.
Thoughts on how to generate the currency: a special vendor that gives "gold" or W/E instead of gold, based on the rarity of the drop. Primarily runes but also set and unique items. Since I'm primarily a WoW player, that's the context I can use to describe the system. Normal uniques/set items give a few silver, nightmare/hell items give a few gold to hundreds of gold for items that are rare but not particularly useful, runes start at a few copper for el to several gold (each worth 10k copper) for mid runes to several hundred gold for high runes. Players have the choice of vendoring items and runes to gain a fixed amount of gold or putting them on the auction house for potentially more gold if someone is willing to pay for it.
Auction house should be structured similar to WoW's but with variable time frames up to 30 days rather than 48 hours. Bid or bin options as the player chooses.
For NL ONLY have the special vendor sell runes for gold, at a rate much higher than what they pay for the runes or even what a player could cube the runes for. In most situations buying those runes from the AH should be cheaper than buying from the vendor but this would cover something like needing a Zod when none are listed. That would be a disaster for ladder but fine for NL.
The simple solution is to not use D2jsp. I never have and never will. The problem is that not enough people do that, and thus it lives on, further damaging the D2 economy through inflation. Also, that Grief Berserker Axe @ 10:07 is painful to see due to the 26 durability on it. That person is going to be repairing it all of the time.
One huge disagreement I have with you is that the creation of a new "currency" you build on ladder should NOT transfer over to the "eternal" realm. What you suggested there just creates the same problem on D2jsp - the transfer of wealth, which creates inflation and devalues everything, ruining trading. We don't want that on eternal realm. Also, I'm against the creation of a new type of "currency" to help simplify trading. One of the fun things about trading and economy in D2 is that you have to stay somewhat current and do a little bit of homework in order to know the value of things via various monies/currencies that already exist in the game, such as high runes, crafting runes, junk jewels, charms, misc pgems, higher-value pgems for crafting and rolling, tokens, keys, specific uniques and greens, the list goes on. I don't want some new overarching currency to replace all of this.
every game has the same thing, POE, last epoch,d4,guildwars,wolcen, AND Thousands of other games sell items, boosting and currency on g2g
the difference between those and d2jsp is that on d2jsp you never have to spend a dime of your own money, you can trade it for forum gold and sell to those who would use real currency to buy fg. They are buying from you instead of the botters if you offer a good price. You avoiding jsp didnt help a danm thing it just made them more likely to buy from a botter.
The new currency could be just convertible back and forth from e.g. IST rune (e.g. 20 diablo dollars for 1 IST). It may not be perfect, but it allows to do it without creating a new item in the game (which brings a whole can of risks with it like changing meta etc.).
Didn't Blizzard use their own version D2JSP in D3 called "The Aution House"? Didn't Blizzard think it made finding items to easy so they shut it down for that reason? Am I the one missing something here?
They shut the RMAH down because most people DON’T want scummy Pay-to-Win in their games. Blizzard also *intentionally nerfed the drop rate* to “incentivize” people to use it.
Hey, I am thinking about getting back to D2 and wanted to purchase D2R, but have few questions since I will be playing only single player, is D2R like original DIablo were best rune words were blocked for Ladder only? I used to play pluggy mode where all rune words where avaiable for single player, also can you swap items in single player between your characters like in pluggy mode?
All runewords are unlocked in D2R single player.
There are 4 stash tabs in D2R. Each character has 1 private stash tab and 3 shared stash tabs which are shared among ALL characters. It makes it easier to mule than vanilla but harder than PlugY.
The stash size also got increased to 10x10.
D2R is a mixed bag. The graphics are gorgeous along with the silky smooth 60 FPS but PlugY does NOT work with it. Thankfully _most_ of the QoL PlugY fixes ARE in D2R such as fixing the cow king portal bug. Probably the only thing you will miss from PlugY is being capped at 3 stash tabs and not being able rename them. LAN play being gone is the other one.
I’ve been playing D2 for 23 years and still miss PlugY but D2R is a great remaster.
@@MichaelPohoreski Thanks for info, last thing I wanted to ask, are you still able to reset your skills like in plugy? or like in the original you can do it in total 3 times, 1 per normal/nightmare/hell play thro?
@@invoker5632 D2R has D2’s original skill reset system: farmable essences to craft a Token of Absolution along with Akira’s single use reset per difficulty.
If you play D2R single player there is an online character editor to edit skills if farming essences is too time consuming for trying out builds.
I like d2jsp and won't change my mind. I never had much luck mfing, but I loved to convert lower crap items (junk jewels, pgs, lower runes, bases) to fg und shop items I really need. I started at 0. If you are against trading ingame items vs time(=money), you are against Traderie aswell. Same goes for secondary market (itemshops, ebay). It's always exchange time=money=other stuff(ingame items). It's for EVERYthing on earth. It's called capitalism.
I hate D2jsp, I blame them for corrupting Diablo II. Not wealth reseting with ladder reset, being real-money auction house (thing that we hated in Diablo III), gatekeeping new users from earning fg because of massive bot farms and fg-millioners, ability to earn fg from other games (e.g. Runescape) and use it in Diablo II, also security and privacy issues. The answer for this problems is Blizzard-backed in-game non-real-money Auction House like in Oldschool Runescape. For me it's a perfect solution. They can even create iron-man mode like in OSRS, where iron-man players can play alongside normal players, but can't trade with them, actually can't trade with anyone (tbh ultimate iron-man where players can't use their chest would be fun too).
Yeah the true solution really just lies with blizzard implementing something in game
The gate keeping, ahh indeed. I dont even have a D2JSP account and I could tell that people were doing that. Things like buying up every last griffons eye and hording them all to control the price. Its also made people infinitely greedy and prone to cheating with controller and scripts to loot things etc.
@@MrLlamaSC so you want trading bots instead of mf bots?
The problem is boting, not d2jsp.
@@czypher valid point
They can't fix the chat system and you want them to handle trading? Lol...I agree it should be in game, but, Big Business is exponentially disappointing. The greed is real!
Traderie has prolonged D2R playtimw for me exponentially and i have only had 1 issue after about 200 trades. I dont feel dirty using it like with JSP.
Dueling is the best part of d2 and jsp gets me the specific gear I need for my build wo it id have no chance of getting specific equipment and inventory Id need to be competitive
I used d2jsp heavily back around '09, but it was very different back then. My experiences back then were great, but I've tried it more recently and it's changed a lot and not for the better.
100% would love a proper in game trading system.
You're the first streamer/youtuber that I've seen actually pronounce Ber the right way, and doesnt say "bear". I like you already
For an in-game currency to work for trading, I think you would need a "central bank" within the game that always lets you exchange the currency for something with in-game value. Let's say 100 units of the currency always gets you an ist rune from the central bank, for example (Or, if you are afraid of flooding the game with ists, maybe just 40 pgems). Then it would be easy for people to assess what the currency is actually worth and prevent the value from dropping.
if blizzard made a PoE trade type site JSP wouldn't need to exist
I agree with some of your points in theory, but I work 50+ hours a week, so being able to bank up FG over the course of a few ladders to say go hard on a PoE league is a great feature for me... some people may disagree, but I can do say 3X D2R ladder resets, end up with 4-5k FG, and now be able to get a pretty solid char up and running in a PoE league (be careful trading for FG on PoE, that's a quick ban)
I’ve always wondered why they couldn’t develop an in game auction house similar to WOW classic. Obviously gold is not super valuable in d2 but would it be that hard to make some bidding tool to put up items or runes for the seller to accept or reject but who knows I could be missing something to do with the way servers are set up that would prevent that.
Some people play D2 for the PVP part of the game. Not everyone wants to spend over 1000 hours farming for that Enigma just to have a sliver of a chance in competetive PVP. If you make things like high runes so unlikely to drop, trading and scamming are bound to happen.
Also D3 had an auction house, if you remember. For some reason it got removed.
Everything the game needs is a double inventory window of both players, both can see the content, both have to agree on the trade. Maybe something like a "Horadric Trading Cube"
D2Jsp helped me a lot in my first d2r ladder season. I found a Griffons on day 2 of ladder and traded it for a bunch of forum gold as my first ever trade on Jsp. I was then able to farm for the first week, wait for prices to go down, and then convert all of that value off of an early griffons into a bunch of high runes to gear up my characters.
Jsp is really the only way to take advantage of the inflated value of early drops.
The problem in traderie and d2jsp is fake bids. People use multiple accs to push the price. Real worth of 20/5 is 1k. Is very complicate to explain the system and strategie of this people. By careful in tradeing.
diablo 2 could put in a new trader where you trade runes for a currency such as "forum gold" and were able to buy any rune for said currency which would give it value. Gives you a currency to trade for items and also fixes the seasonal problem. Its important that it doesnt drop said currency in game though
note im 15 mins in when posting this i expect llama to mention something like this
So how do we topple the Patriarchy known as D2JSP?
I think running bots at a small personal level to find loot and level is fun but some people do it on a huge scale to make it a job and that just kills it.
Disagree. I think using JSP (and traderie even) help new players identify what items are good/useful/sought after and not just chuck em on the ground when they see a blue monarch with some sockets and block chance.
It also lends to making any play style more fun. Rune farming/leveling/gold finding/rare jewel hunting crafting, so many more drops mean something when you can assign value to it.
And if anything a NEW NEW player? They benefit the most from any of this. With or without JSP they’re starting with nothing. Without JSP they’re stuck holding the bag if they find a gfg item at the start of ladder. With JSP they get paid off.
I played d2 single player for about 6 years on and off throughout my life, and the most fun I’ve ever had with this game has been when the drops were this meaningful
Pretty bad argument
if there was not d2jsp i would sell item on g2g and save the money in my paypal balance..... this isnt a jsp issue. infact g2g is way bigger and has 1000's of games.
I think it'd be interesting if, in addition to having a trading system or auction house between players, there was also a system with the game's vendor NPCs. Each unique item, set item, and rune can have a preassigned sale value and purchase value (purchase probably being considerably higher than sale, so that you can deterministically purchase items you want with enough play). More variable items like rare and crafted items probably wouldn't fit into this system, so they could be exclusive to the player trading.
Only sale value, if anything. We already have gambling.
How about gambling instead of buying
Hardcore classic ladder probably has the best economy if you enjoy magic finding and trading. There's no bots that I'm aware of and items keep their value for a much much longer time.
What about trades for unspecified items? I.e. I am willing to buy the best tri-res boots for my budget. This kind of trade is only possible on a forum-like trading ground
While it has its downfalls, the ease of access and ability to make quick trades makes JSP necessary. I agree the best solution would be for Blizzard to create an in game system, but we have to roll with what we got for now.
I've thought myself, wouldn't it be nice to have a system as convenient as D2JSP, but without people bringing in FG from older seasons or different games, etc. But then, new season drops, no one can purchase or import FG into the system, so how do people people buy/sell things without currency, and we arrive back at having to use ingame items as currency.
I miss the old active trading channels in game.
Hey, this new series of videos made me think about LAN offline. Why is there no LAN Offline? Thanks for the videos, I also love the new play through series.
Blizzard doesn’t want people playing online in a forum they don’t control and don’t want mods
As an old school D2 player I learned about D2jsp during the LoD days. I remember the gate keeping for new traders with 0 fg.
All I wanted was an easier way to get large amounts of crafting materials like 40 p gems, or 40 of the relevant rune. I had always got every single waypoint in every difficulty so traded waypoints for a few fg to buy my materials with. D2jsp and bot found items is our unfortunate reality, but as a casual it has its uses.
Just an observation, these recent D2 videos definitely have an essay feel to them.
Also, any updates on llama rpg for us UA-cam folks?
A couple seasons ago my friend was trading 10m gold for I think 10 or 20fg. Making fg is so ez
We (Blizzard) created the real money auction house in Diablo 3 because players showed they wanted to trade, but D2jsp was such a shithole.
100% agree and you're right the only thing that stops d2jsp is a proper in-game system
D2jsp exists over decades cuz there is a need for some ppl to play efficient in several ways:
- Time on earth ist limited, some have jobs that simply dont allow legit grinding at a certain level, so im okay with that "workaround".
- I love the fact that jsp allows me to transfer from ladder to nl without loosing the invested time aka wealth, reset has always been a real turnoff to me, cuz when its between improving gear without time limitation and gathering wealth (nl) VS loosing anything and start allover again and again (lad), i prefer #1. Like i prefer 1 top car instead of 20 crap ones.
- Last and probably the most important aspect: i can cash out from D2R and did not waste all that time and value investment, or just invest the Forumgold in other games.
I agree that it makes the game less intense / thrilling to take that short route, but on the other hand, if ur into pvp or like mentioned short on freetime, its a gamechanger.
A friend of mine works in shifts, even on saturdays and sundays, when D2R launched it was the only way for him to keep up so that we could play together at a same level (charlevel/gear/general progress).
As much as I like this idea and agree the major downside is that it blizzard takes over a d2jsp type system inside the game what's stopping them from being the ones that sell the FG. They won't build a new part of the game just to support trading in the game for free they will need to make money somehow. Either they will sell the FG like they do in Diablo immortal or start charging a monthly service fee just to access the game. They can't put labor into a system without it making them money somehow.
pretty glaring to leave out your ladder race groups taking the first torch you find straight to d2jsp LOL
You mean the one he had someone else trade for forum gold, wait a couple days for the bots to ruin the economy like they always do and then buy bis gear at a cheap price and gave it away to his viewers for supporting him in that run and in his career.
Well-thought out analysis, too bad activision-blizzard-microsoft-ubisoft-myspace -bethesda doesn't care about D2R since it most-likely has generated mere pennies compared to D4
I wish they would open up trading in all Diablo games. I don't really play every class and when you get a nice unique in D4 that you can't use it's scrap time and even then the scrap is mostly worthless. I miss the auction house that D3 used to have. That was super convenient without having to use a sketchy third party site. Something like that would be great for D2/D3/D4. Imagine if they took it one step further and made it a part of the Battlenet App and allowed trading across versions. That would be cool.
the problem was the 250 euro thing with the auction house. and that there was rmt in the first place. and blizzard getting a huge cut. and even then there was items so insanely great rolled that people traded off plattform on ebay and such cause they couldn't get the value they thought was appropriate. and then they introduced this bug into the ah. i don't fully remember how it worked but it was something about having an item there for not real money but ingame gold and if you canceled or something you would get double the gold or something along those lines. it was only some hours for this to exist before the ah got taken down and hotfixed but it allowed people to generate bazillions of igg which in turn ruined the entire economy back then. after that it wasn't long until the ah got scrapped entirely. i mean even before that blizz said that the ah did more harm to the game than benefit so it was a matter of time anyway.
Blizzard should add a "Trade" difficulty that is just Normal, so that all the trade games could be made there. Would be a simple thing to add.
I agree with all of this, but I highly doubt that MS/Acti/Blizz will put the time/resources into something like this without also making their own RMT system of some sort that they could profit off of.
I original found d2jsp back in the day looking for a bot like 2003ish? But also does not support botting since around 2005 and any mention of it on its forums gets you instantly banned.
What do you think of the trading mechanics in Path of Exile, in comparison?
Meridian XL runs on forum gold sales if you want to progress at a certain point, it's why i left the game as i already conquered all the "free" content and the only content left in Median XL was (and still is) the content you either needed the incredibly rare item drop to do or buy it for forum gold.
The difference here tho, is that i can still do 100% of D2R without the top GG items, can't do that in Median XL :D
Buying blizzard-forum-gold-analogue for in-game gold can increase gold utility. Also, selling bliz-gold for real money can stimulate ms to introduce in-game auction.
Tbh the wealth carryover is the main reason i use jsp. I play a bit here and there and dont have time to farm all the stuff i need for a full char. I found a mega valuable trires boots in s1, and that sale has equipped every toon i made since. Selling nl stuff for ladder dtuff is awesome too. If blizz did their own forum it would not work. Most people on jsp want the wealth transfer.
why do u play ladder? At this moment there's no difference between ladder and non ladder except the reset.
this is exactly why it ruins ladder play
The wealth would transfer to non-ladder which is fine.
The problem is Diablo 2 devs have given up on this game, it means that someone has had to take matters in their own hands. They refuse to listen to their player base which has lead to a loss of revenue on their behalf.
As far as JSP goes, I think it's quite effective - I personally have never been scammed by trading with trusted players who are conscious of their account being banned. The ladder resets are disappointing but realistically very few people are actually going to invest the time to rush to 99. I do agree that buying full characters can take the fun out of the game but at the same time, as a solo online player who doesn't use the trade feature, it can be incredibly frustrating to level up and find gear just to do some basic magic finding
Doubt that a external solution will do much. It is a difference of approach towards the game or anything really. This can go surprisingly deep. In the end people will take joy out of their activity very differently. The spectrum from hobbyist to professionals touches so many things and can be nuanced but on the surface it goes from spending money to making money while "wasting time". Anyone on that spectrum will reevaluate if their time is well spend.
Personally I play ssf specifically d2 lod eth grail or with rl friends d2r and other games that don't trade with others as it quickly sucks the joy out of it for us.
The best way to improve a game is to copy the QoL of other games, I can't understand why Blizzard doesn't create a trade mode on the site like PoE
Small indie company and it would take “work”. /s
Yea theres a bout 6 of us that still play together and one of our friends just wait a few weeks each reset then full kits out a hammerdin with his FG he has saved up and doesn't understand why none of us wanna play with him.
They may build up currency like pass each act 10 gold. Pass dificulty 50 gold. Reach each level 1 gold. That way we get the 1st gold for new ladder.
That's why a ingame (nonrealmoney) Trading House bound to the played on ladder/nonladder would be the greatest.
I've been without a PC for two years and they STILL haven't fixed the lobby? PD2 figured this out YEARS ago ffs 😂
Small indie company. /s
“Welcome” to D2 spam for 20 years.
I've been saying it since season 1 started and everybody told me stfu. Nice to see llama finally say it, whatever you think of JSP is fine, some people think it hurts, some that it helps, I think it does both. But as llama said and I have been screaming and no amount of trolling or countering will change my mind. FG rolling over into new ladder seasons ruins ladder, you cannot deny that, it's in the very definition and purpose of latter.
I can't imagine a scenario in which Blizzard spends development time on fixing trading in the way you said, and doesn't give an option to buy the new currency for real money, sadly. You might say that d2jsp is selling their currency already, so what the difference for the player. Imo the difference is huge, when bought from blizzard it's 100% safe, it's "morally cleaner" because it's approved by blizzard and finally it's way way more convenient when you can buy it without leaving the game for a second. It's sad reality, I'm sure that Blizzard could fix the issue, but I just don't believe that they really want to do it without taking an opportunity for big big money.