Crawler Canyon Presents: Fusion vs. Fusion (SE 1800kV & SE 1200kV)
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- Опубліковано 18 лют 2023
- When I did the initial Quickview on the SE 1800, I thought to myself, this feels a little too spicy for the gearing in the Element, and the motor mount prohibits me from going smaller than an 18T. So I speculated that the 1200kV might be better suited to vehicles with higher FDRs, like... well, anything with straight axles. Did I guess right?
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IG: crawlercanyon - Фільми й анімація
I've been waiting for this comparison. One or the other was going into my new build and now I have decided the 1200kv. All of your videos are really informative and enjoyable to watch. I feel I learn something new every time you post a new vid. Excellent work, "guy"
Best comparison video yet. I hope this video gets the views it deserves. Thanks for the video brother.
ONE WORD, OUTSTANDING, thanks sir,great job!! and your editing is great!!
Thankyou for your time and effort you put into testing its always appreciated.
I don’t understand why you haven’t got more subscribers , your content is great 👍
Figuring out the algorithm is akin to trying to figure out how memes work-- the guy that does it will make billions.
I keep going at it "The Neistat Way," where he said that the algorithm just wants to be fed, it doesn't care about it's being fed. So I just keep putting out videos and hoping something catches.
@@CrawlerCanyon you keep making and I’ll keep watching.
More power to you sir.
Hope it catches more. I like your content and appreciate your effort;) Go ahed as you wish not others^^@@CrawlerCanyon
Because the videos are waaayyyyyy too long. Great content but very few people have the attention span for 30-1hr long videos. Unless it’s super entertaining. Also from what I understand, the algorithm doesn’t like super long videos
Because UA-cam algorithm sucks and this great content creator can may be have conclusion and summary a bit in the starting and end to sum up amd help understand the main point in short for impatient viewers
I came for the tiny trucks, I stayed for your effortless eloquence
Wow! I’m glad I found your channel. Great content! On this episode, I have been going back and forth which system to get, what they offer and how much the wife will let me spend. This video helps! I have a Axial Bronco which is the newest addition to the family and my favorite addition for many reasons is the Cross RC AT4 in blue. One is straight axle with a “okay” system and the other is magnificent and replacing the 1060 HW with a 1080 G2 HW soon. With your help I decided on the 1200kv for the straight axle Bronco. 🎉 Thank you!
Just found your page, great content, great video, keep up the good work!! Got a new subscriber!
I have been thinking about upgrading my stock Ecto motor, and you pretty much talked me into it. I just placed an order on the jungle site, and should be installing it on Wednesday. Thanks for the honest review.
Great video. I had to go back and watch It again. I have 2 of the 1800 kV motors and one of the 2300 KV pros. But I haven't had the 1200 yet and was waiting on. Putting it in my Gmade that has a Toyota TF2 hard body and need to slow it down a little more. Although the 1800 KV is great. This video has convinced me to try the 1200kv & save 10 dollars. So thank you.
man im so glad i found you channel
This is exactly what I needed to view. I thought the 1200 was going to be my choice. And this confirms it. Thanks.
Love the review ! The testing between the 1800 and 1200 SE was needed . Thx
Thanks for the comparison!
Great driving...those HWs are unbelievable for the money!
I don't think there's an option out there that will beat the 1200 SE at 70 bucks. Nothing even comes close. Combine that with simple and clean install, and that thing is an unbelievable bargain. It simply has no competition.
that two wheel moment, OMG! this video made me buy a fusion se 1200kv motor for one of my two new 1/10 crawlers i have on the way to me! LOVE THIS VIDEO! the video itself is soothing to my soul!
I was looking for a comparison between the two (1800 vs 1200). I should have known you would have a video on it. 👍🏼
Just ordered my first brushless crawler motor went with the 1200kv, thanks to your videos. Was gonna go 1080 crawler master. But the cost as you mentioned so close if not more didn't make sense not to try brushless. Unless you already have a 1080. Any way thanks can't wait to slap this in my 10.2
Man this was a really good comparison video between the to motors loved the video I was wounding what to get for an ftx outback fury I love the look of the black one many thanks it's really helped now to choose between the to 👍
Great video and very helpful! I have a TRX4 and I wasn't sure which one to get. It makes a lot more sense now why they have two different kV ratings. 🤓
Thank you for this video!! I like when I learn something, and this video taught me something. I had the misconception that a higher KV geared down would produce better fidelity and torque than a lower KV geared up. I have learned that I was WRONG!
Honestly, before today I thought the same thing-- just gear down. The lower kV SE is soooooo much better to wheel on a straight axle compared to the 1800. It feels like something completely different.
Thanks for this video, i just ordered both the 1200 and 1800 as i was unsure which one work be best in my RC4WD Gelanda II Cruiser. this video helps
Awesome . Great information.
Epic moments all started at 25:00 for me. I was yelling, "GO DRIVER!!"
thanks for the video...got a 1200 for my new build
I got the fusion se 1800 in my TRX4 Sport with stock pinion and in my Element with 12t pinion. Love the fusion se, might try the 1200 in my Capra.
New here, love the content. At 25:35 I think I got a contact high! I totally felt that moment. When things like that happen, it's just magic. It makes you look around with the hope that someone, anyone... even the dog, was there to witness the goodness! LOL I could hang with you all day...I'm cut from the same cloth. It almost feels like I'm watching my own commentary watching you crawl! LOL Well done man, well done. Thanks for the comparo. I've got a portal Vanquish on the way and you can bet I"m bitch slappin one of these HW combo's in there. Probably the 1200kv.
Very interesting! I really love that 1200kv on my K10 hightrail. Greetings from France ✌🐸🥖
Thanks for the video! I just ordered a 1200 for my enduro. Gonna look to see if I have a 24t gear
Axial makes my favourite goto tire, the RIPSAW .
I probably should have ordered one of these, rather than ordering the Rhino ESC and programmer, like I did this weekend, but I already have an outrunner in my RGT, so what the heck. And you said it was an awesome ESC, and for some reason I trust you. 😅Will try and order one of these Fusion SE things later, as they seem pretty amazing for the price. Maybe when I get money back on my taxes in a few months. :D
The HW 2300KV PRO, has way more low end and good top end. I have one in my trx4 bronco and one in my vanquish pro, both will do 1/8 lug at a time, you can watch grass grow. For budget these are great tho! Great video!
I currently have a 1500kv 5 slot 20t brushed set up running a 13t pinion and 56t spur in scx10ii. I'm undecided which one to get! I only need to go just above walking pace as its a hard body, so think I'll go with the 1200kv!
25.33 was absolutely mental!!
That might be the furthest I've gotten into "there's no way out of this" and then saved it.
Axial has the Ripsaw. :]
They still sell the 2.2, and you can get the 1.9 even though they're discontinued.
Thanks i bought two of the 1200kv ones for portal vehicles.. they work fine but i do need to play with the actual gearing i do believe.. tis a bit jerky
(9:15) - The "NEW" 1-piece Element SE Body seems pretty stout !!! ...? 🤔 Also, it is great to see an "accidental" body be produced, which has a "slightly-longer" WB of (12.6") !!! ...Instead of (12.3")
I think it will fit my current Gmade (GS02F) WB of 12.5, "at rest" and when suspension is fully compressed, it has an even longer (3/16ths) "extra" spread, to the WheelBase !! 👌Works for me. 😉
- Great to see Element come out with this (1-piece) version, for us RC-er's who like rigidity !!! 👍
The Bushido might be the one of the worst at this, with equal-length front and rear links-- between full droop and full compression the wheelbase changes nearly half an inch.
Being born in the 'burbs and growing up/living in Wisconsin, I appreciate your "midwest good byes"😅....so um yeah....i s'pose I better get going....don't forget to tell the wife I sez bye too.😂😂
I ordered one of those Rhino combos for my Class1 rig. It has a MambaX+Slate 1900 right now, which allows me to run 4S. It would be great to simplify the wiring and lighten it a bit with a Rhino and outrunner. Swapping out that Castle whine is also appealing lol. Another Fusion is always tempting but running the outrunner would have more space around the forward motor mount I think
The "Castle whine" combined with an obvious lack of any technology resembling FOC sees two full Castle setups sitting in the spares bin, while I instead choose to run 1080s in those rigs. When a $40 brushed speed control and $30 motor has more initial smoothness and better trigger feel than a $200 brushless combo, let's just say someone is doing something wrong.
I just switched Yella over to 4S, so he's running a 3530 1450kv Team Brood Riot, and it's outstanding. Super low speed control, but absolutely ferocious wheelspeed. I mean, Zoidberg runs 4S into a 3548 760kv, and he's portal'd-- so Yella is what, 3 times as fast WOT?
@@CrawlerCanyon My NWSD chassis Sendero is running the AG ninja with an 1800kv RevolverV3. 😅 Some guys at the local comps run some BEANS in their rigs as mine never seemed too fast😂
@@Andy_Yates I don't think I've ever seen a pic of a comp rig with anything "slower" than a 2200 in it. Meanwhile, I'm over here with my spiciest outrunner clocking in at 1650.
Incredible videos! Easily the most informative that I’ve found.
Wanting to order the Sendero SE soon for mostly trailing. Leaving the pinion the same as stock, what would you recommend to make sure the truck goes at least as fast as walking speed? Thanks in advance!
I think on an 18 the 1200 would be a bit too slow, and as the 1800 is a little too fast for my purposes, I would have to say the 1800.
I mean, what I want to say is get the 1200 and gear up because pinions are cheap and the 1200 gets you more gearing flexibility with the XF.
Mind you, this is all based on 3S use-- for 2S, the 1800 all the way
@@CrawlerCanyon you’re a gentleman and a scholar. What pinion would you recommend for my purposes with the 1200kv? If I can ever find one in stock lol.
@@baumannj724 I have no complaints about the 24T I have in mine. I know a 24 sounds bonkers, but because of the 2:1 intermediate gear, it's the equivalent of running a 12T.
I’m loving the Fusion motors ever since they first came out. I am surprised that Castle or Holmes haven’t come out with a version yet.
And it can't be an IP thing, as apparently everybody rips off everybody nowadays. Spektrum has a rebadge of the Pro, but literally no one ever talks about it. I imagine Horizon chopping off about a third of the programming options has something to do with it.
Castle would make one and figure out how to make it noisy.
I installed the spectrum in my twin hammer. It was the only one that would fit. Shorter length.
@@mclarenf115 The 1200/1800 SE, the Fusion Pro, and the Firma 2-in-1s are all the same length, 58mm. The older, what I call "legacy" Fusions were longer by about 6mm.
I have the stand up shock kit from shapeways. So the servo location limits the size of the motor. With the 2speed the 1400kv works well. Plenty of bottom end I do have the fusion se going in on my fake honcho (foncho).
@@CrawlerCanyon how can I send you a picture of my set up
Axial came out with the trail honco that had the ripsaw tire ….
Was torn on putting a 1800 or 1200 in my vanquish chassis with straight axles with rc4wd.
But think 1200 would be just fine
This was a great review, so interesting. I'm now torn--I was planning on an 1800 for my Gatekeeper--I liked the sound of them being a bit less refined and punchier than the Pro (from that earlier review)--we mostly trail, not a lot of rocks here, and I like the idea that a rig based on an Ultra 4 racer is a little fast and wild, it's very fun to bounce over logs. But the 1200 looks amazingly capable and I'm lacking a ton of torque in the current setup. I don't know whether to prize the wildness of the 1800 or the control and torque of the 1200 for that rig. I'll likely start with the 1200 and if that's too slow and controlled it can go in a future rig--the price is good enough to give one a shot, and they're Fusions, they'll make any rig happy enough.
The beauty of a 1200 + 1800 costing about the same as a Pro = might as well get both
How did it work out for you
@CrawlerCanyon just told the wife that and she rolled her eyes and walked away! Hahahaha
Thanks for the video. I think the 1200 would need a 27t to equal the 18 on the 1800. Viewed as 50% or 2/3 difference, or 18x18=324 12x27=324
True. But the whole thing arose because an 18T is the smalllest pinion that will fit (though it acts like a 9T, thanks to the 2:1 intermediate gear) and that only brings the FDR (ignoring UD) to 48.6:1. An 1800 needs more reduction. So the 24T (basically a 12 in terms of FDR) is the little bit of gear down I was looking for but can't get with the 1800. It's still a really "fast" final drive at around 36:1. Fitting a 27T would take the FDR to about 32.5:1, which is getting into the territory of 2nd gear in a two-speed.
What's really nuts is how much slower the 2300kv pro can go. Either way, the fusion SE is a "brushed motor market" killer. a 1080 and trailmaster sport is pretty close in price with nowhere near the same low speed torque
100% agree. Whatever wizardry composes FOC, it's the real deal. But at 70-ish bucks, nothing can touch the SE 1200.
As David Byrne said... "this must be the place"
Hey CC, would this work in an Absima BronX? (Yikong YK4083)🤔
That is the best comparison i have seen.
did you ever put 1800 into a portal rig?
asking as have portal rig and looking to swap motors
Yes, quite a few of them. I don't have an exact count, but Fusion SEs are powering probably around 1/3rd of the whole fleet.
Quick question about FOC calibration on the fusion se.. I did everything properly the first time, had motor with no load on it, did the auto FOC calibration thing, but once the truck was all built, I accidentally put it back into that FOC motor calibration mode and it started going through the process again with the load of the whole drivetrain. I freaked out and just unplugged the battery or turned off the button, cant remember.. either way I interrupted that motor calibration mode. My question is, do I have to disassemble everything again and redo the FOC calibration with no load on the motor? Or did "canceling" the mode by turning it off save me, by causing it to not save the setting..??
Just recalibrate. I never even disconnect anything from the motor. Ever. Long hold at startup to enter calibration, go through the process as normal.
@@CrawlerCanyon So unplugging didn't save me? I did it all perfect the first time. And everything I read says the motor shouldn't have any load on it during that process.
@@JP-qq2kn well, they mean "load," as in LOAD. Like, don't calibrate it with the rig sitting on a rock at a 45º angle. On a table or workbench (or supported on a yoga block/stand/etc) there should be no physical load on the motor. It's worked for me with the dozen+ Fusions I have.
@@CrawlerCanyon Enough said. I'll do that. Thank you!
Rewatched this again as I’m shamelessly ripping off baseline as it’s such a performer for the money! Got the ecto style towers front and rear, S1 trail canyons, 60kg 9imod direct power servo and a 1200kv fusion se, I love how smooth it is and how it now sits perfectly front and rear.
I’ve converted it to 3 link and panhard just because I could and it objectively looks better, can always change back if it impacts performance too much 👍🏻
What were the final programming settings you ended up with and I believe you have now got it on a 22t pinion right?
Love the content as always 🙂
I it's a 22T, but something in my brain is saying it might be a 24T. Twenty two sounds... more right?
You shouldn't have any issue with CMS, 60kg should be plenty. I agree that 3-link looks better, but the cheat code that is BOSOA is hard to resist.
@@CrawlerCanyon I’ve got a 24t and 23t as starting points, I know the odd number won’t be to your liking though 😂
Great Video, just got a Vanquish Phoenix and I ordered the 1200 do you think I need to change my pinion ? I just subscribed btw
As you went with a 1200, I'm assuming you have a straight axle-- you'll be fine on the stock 13T, but if you want a little more trailing speed, you can easily go up a few teeth. On my Enduro SE, I went up from the stock 18T (48P) to a 22T. I would think a 15 or 16 would be perfect for a mix of rocks/trails.
@@CrawlerCanyon sweet. I just watched the Phoenix vs Phoenix video you did and it was very entertaining. Thanks for responding
Man I just ordered the 1800kv and seeing this video comparison made me think I chose the right motor for the job on the trx4
You absolutely did.
I’m looking at one of these for my trx4 sport, I’m assuming because it’s portal 1800kv would be a better fit?
You are correct. Though if you wanted SUPER slow, you could put in the parts for a 2-speed and mount the 1200, which would make 1st gear like... 2mph, and second gear around... 4mph.
Hi Doc, can I just check is the pinion size in the Stealth XF roughly similar in wheel speed to the same pinion in an X?
So if you put a 24t 1200kv in a Stealth X would it have similar driving qualities and wheelspeed to what you achieved here? I have a Fusion SE 1200 coming but bit concerned it will be too slow in a standard Stealth X and don't really want to compensate with big pinion.
Stealth X comes geared 18/87 (4.83:1) while the XF has a 50T spur and 18T pinion, has a reduction gear in between-- which I had thought this whole time was 2:1, but I finally sat down and counted the teeth to find out it's 28/45, which is 1.6:1. So 18T divided by 1.6 is 11.25, put that into 50 for a 4.44:1 spur-to-pinion ratio. All the gears inside are the same, so the XF is actually geared a little faster than the X-- I thought it was the other way around.
I've been running a 22T (the equivalent of a 13.75T pinion) since the SE 1200 went in and the speed feels perfect. So on an X you'll probably want to go up a few teeth on the pinion or down on the spur. Or both. I love a nice even ratio, so I'd be throwing 21/84 on there. Could be perception, but I feel like "perfect" ratios are quieter.
Thanks, I will try the 84/21 combo 👍
Just to feedback that 21/84 combo you recommended with the 1200kv SE is pretty much spot on. Awesome slow crawl and just punchy enough too.
I just got bargain 2x 1800se for 139€ and 2x 1200se for115€🤦♂️🤦♂️ black friday 👌.
Excellent video
BACK IN MY DAY, Black Friday (almost) meant something. Now the sales start the day after Halloween, and we get "deals," not DEALS. I want that old-timey "$500 TV for $99" stuff.
Coming back to this video again because I don't think I have the time or budget for outrunners (after you had inspired me to look into that rabbit hole).
Coming from brushed only rigs this seems like the next logical step in terms of performance increase for money spent.
Amain had them in stock a few days ago, the 1200kv is 70 bucks-- right about a pricepoint of a medium-grade brushed setup. I only have a few brushed rigs left, and those motors are uh... expensive.
@@CrawlerCanyon I have a Capra and Phoenix that I'm willing to upgrade (my other rigs being a Gen7 and a Ridgerock). So I'll take your recommendation and choose the 1800 for the portal axled rigs.
Which one do you think would suit the losi night crawler with the straight worm drive axles
I would have to say the 1200 for sure, as the Night crawler doesn't actually have a gearbox-- pinion, intermediate gear, spur, then straight to the axles. The pre-worm reduction is like 1.67:1, which is REAL tall for a crawler.
👍👍👍
I may have missed it - what is the final drive ratio on this rig so we can understand how these results would transfer to another platform ? I have a 2spd trx-4 wil portals but I am considering going straight axle later.
Fitted with a 24T pinion the FDR is 50:1. I say roughly because I use the "middle number" between the front and rear ratios, ignoring the UD gears. Fitted with an 18T pinion the FDR is again, roughly 68:1.
The problem I see you having is that the 1800 is pretty much perfect for a TRX-4, as you can gear it easily for the 2-speed or the single speed gearbox.
But most of the gear reduction in a TRX-4 takes place in the portals-- take the portals away and the low gear in the two speed basically becomes the high gear, and high gear becomes LUDICROUS SPEED. I have a TRX-4 2-speed paired to AR45 straights, and on 900Kv second gear is "let's go jump over the creek" fast.
@@CrawlerCanyon my other idea is a planetary reducer and a short outrunner. But you lose the waterproofing.
@@black99rt I think outrunners will handle water... okay-ish, they just don't like stuff IN that water. The Fusion is the go-everywhere-do-everything powerplant, IMO. I definitely think differently when wheeling (most) rigs that are outrunner equipped.
axial had the ripsaw and the rock lizard tires
25:38 STRAIGHT DOPAMINE SHOT TO THE BRAIN! 🤣🤣🤣
I can't believe that side dropped down.
Baseline needs a hair buns sticker.
And a whole array of more Hobbywing, I suppose. Maybe I can find a donut sticker to symbolize the hair buns?
@@CrawlerCanyon You have a Cricut, what's stopping you?
Ha, professor brothers, lol
One of the six people! Brad Neely is a genius.
I guess not even 1200kv would work good for a WLToys 12429 with original gearing?
Axial had a 1.9 And a 2.2 tire called the Ripsaw that I believe was there design. Not 💯 but it's been years since I had a set of them
I have a set of the 1.9s on my Defender. I think that 4.35" OD is just about perfect for the crazy high weight of the TRX-4 Defender, and wish more companies would make tires in that fall into that "no man's land" sizing between Class 1 and Class 2-- so in the 4.3-4.5" range. Portal rigs don't need 4.75s, they get the ground clearance from you know... the portals.
Now that I think about it, I think I'm running mostly tires in that 4.65" size range.
@@CrawlerCanyon I totally understand, I love a 1.9 in a 4.50" OD myself and that size looks good but most importantly works good where we go Trail Riding. With the mixture of sand, rocks, roots, clay, mud and water crossings. I also like the 4.35" like you're talking about. That Super Swamper Thornbird looks sooooo scale and good on the rigs I have seen around here.
I'm in North Carolina by the way, while we have plenty of rocks to crawl we have a bunch of other obstacles to challenge a rig.
Love your videos and how Informative they are, thank you! 🤠👍🏼
@@adamrodgers2377 That Thornbird (which I had never heard of until about 3 minutes ago) just jumped on to my list of "tires I absolutely need to try in the future."
@@CrawlerCanyon awesome 👍🏼 I have 3 friends running them and they like them for Tail Running. They do decent on the rocks around here, not perfect but decent. They do pull good in sand and are surprisingly good in the mud. I plan on getting a set for my Daughters SCX10 G6 Jeep Rubicon.
Now would a 2300kv pro offer as much smoothness down low as the 1200kv SE?
Oh, more. The Pro is smoother, but with like double the available wheelspeed. The Pro is the next level, with the price to match.
Regarding Axial rtr tires, I believe all Nitto offerings and the variations of the Ripsaw tires are actually branded by Axial. They offer a verity of unique compounds as well. You got me curious so I cruised their page.
TRIGGER WARNING ⚠️
They're partnered with Pro-line, so maybe there's some fuguassi goin around and 'you know who' is makin all the shoes...
No I mean who's actually got a "designed" RTR tire, like the Canyon Trail, which AFAIK has no 1:1 equivalent. Anything Nitto, General, Falken, BFG, etc. are all scale-versions of 1:1 tires. I couldn't think of anything other than the CT and the Axial Ripsaw. There is an ATV/UTV tire called the Rip Saw, but it certainly appears to be of no relation.
Not surprising about ol' PL, as Horizon owns them and AKA Tires as well. The 800lb Horizon gorilla.
@@CrawlerCanyon why, that gorilla is shaped just like a pyramid scheme. Funny.
How is the top speed on the 1200? Thinking of upgrading my RocHobby Atlas 4x4 but I want it to still be fast enough for trailing
You basically just gear it up to the speed you want. I tend to use 1200s on rigs that don't have nearly enough gear reduction from the factory, so I'm trying to slow them down. Any of the Carisma ATT gearbox fitted rigs are dummy fast, so the 1200 makes them manageable. I run a 1200 in my Enduro SE (Stealth XF) with a 24T pinion-- but with the reduction from the intermediate gear, it's the same ratio as running a 15T. Fast enough, still has plenty of torque.
I just did mine, it's still pretty quick. Only used the stock pinion gear tho.
@@JP-qq2kn I have a 1200 SE in my Atlas, I have gone down a tooth or two. I seem to recall not liking the OE pinion for some reason.
@@CrawlerCanyon it does seem a bit coggy at very low speed.. I was kinda hoping for slower.
@@JP-qq2kn You should have absolutely zero cogging or hesitation. I can creep mine at maybe 5rpm at the wheel.
Axial had the ripsaw on the 2.2 Wraith, terrible for crawling
They also had a 1.9 version
Transmitter will affect your minimum throttle speed as well
Axial ripsaw? Dunno never seen the real life version so
The taller you gear a low KV, like the 1200 the faster your gonna lose that slow slow start up on take off. You'll gain top speed but at the cost of losing slow craw control.
Not my experience with FOC. With a brushed setup? Maybe. With an outrunner? Absolutely not.
Further, with the intermediate gear in the Stealth XF, running a 24T pinion is basically the same as running say 18/56 on a VFD (the hat gear turns a 24T into a 15T, effectively.) Factor in that with the smallest pinion that fits being an 18T, the 1800kv is too fast (for Class 2/3, at least.)
Très beau site , et ambiance nature . Progression un peu lente quand-même dans l ensemble...une citation d un comique français malheureusement plus de ce monde : Si il a un accident , il ne l aura pas vite 😄 , il s appelait Coluche . Good job 👍.
Question - why not the 1200 in a portal rig.. I have a TRX4 Sport and if the 1200 has a mechanical advantage then why not..?
Today's episode (1/1/24) will give you an idea-- TRX standard gearbox (not two-speed) with portals on a Fusion SE 1200 tops out at 2.5mph. You can't really even bump with it. That's why I always say 1200 for straights, 1800 for portals.
Thanks for the quick reply.. Another question, If I got the 1800, do I also need to buy the card for programming it..
@@vansantsam you can do programming via lashing light and button presses, but it's really worth it to just buy a card. They're ~10 bucks, and the one card will program everything Hobbywing that we would use: Fusion SE/Pro, 1080s, etc.
I use the Fusion SE 1200KV in a 2-gear Absima Sherpa (Yikong YK4102) and it is quite good for me using the stock pinion gear. The Fusion SE 1800KV fires up my Axial SCX10 DIY 6x6 & for me it's really fast enough.
Now I'm thinking about which fusion will be the best for my kinda heavy TRX-4 Defender. I don't want to build a racer, so the decision might be between the 1200KV or the 1800KV, the Pro with 2300KV should be a little too fast, I guess. But I remember there was a comparison made by a German rc enthusiast on the internet stating the 2300KV is as fast as the 550 Titan stock motor. Hard to believe - what are your thoughts?
@@PzKdt76 the 2300 will easily be as fast as the stock Titan, if not faster. That's the beauty of the Pro-- superb low-end control, and all the wheelspeed you could ever want.
Is this running the stock overdrive gearing?
I believe at time of filming I had already put the Stealth X gears in the XF, so it's running the OE "option" gearing of 11% rear UD. No aftermarket gears.
@Crawler Canyon what gearing do you prefer in the Enduro? Thinking of picking up a Builder Kit 2, vs any of the rtr settups.
Did i undersoot right? 1200kv with big pinion has better low speed control than 1800kv with small pinion.
If im right, then 1200kv is always better because you can put proper pinion.
Btw its not the same max speed, 1800*18 is not equal 1200*24. For equal conditions you should pair 1200kv with 27t pinion. So 1200kv motor had advantage in low speed test.
18 is the smallest pinion that will fit in an XF gearbox, so any low speed advantage given to the 1200 SE is due to the mechanical limitations of the gearbox.
The 1200 is not always better, because at a certain point you will have geared up to the point where the motor has lost too much mechanical advantage.
The XF with a 24T pinion and 1200 SE is just how I want it- the right amount of wheelspeed without loss of torque. So the 1800, being incapable of gearing lower, is not as good a choice as the 1200. For reference, the XF gearbox has an intermediate gear with a 1.6:1 ratio, so the 1800 and 1200 motors were effectively running 11 and 15 tooth pinions respectively.
Axial has a tire.it’s called rip saw.
I swear I mentioned Ripsaw-- I have a set of ancient 1.9s on a Defender. I did think of another non-scale RTR tire, the Vanquish VXT. It's pretty terrible, but it exists.
@@CrawlerCanyon I did a trade for a 79 bronco trx4.so I modded the canyon trails on two stage with amazon bead locks.40wt shock oil and it’s a beast.stock motor so far with a 1080.it will can creep.even with a stick tx.I’m doing a cheaper build.I blew the wad on my other 79 bronco.that one is a tank.goes over anything.the info you give in your videos is awesome.thank you.your my number one channel to watch.👍
Ripsaws are an axisl tire
I have to go back and rewatch, because I think the words in my head and the words that came out of my mouth might not match-- I was trying to figure out if there are any OE/RTR crawler tires based on 1:1 tires other than the Ripsaw and the Canyon Trail. I guess i should better specify "big brand," because the tires that come on MST, Carisma, etc are all pretty much just generic, unlicensed tires. Oh! Vanquish VXT! There's a third.
Hello. I dont know english. In conclusion, which one is better? Thank you
1800 for portals, 1200 for straight axles.
@@CrawlerCanyon thank you very much for your answer. 🙏🏻
I really wanted the 1200 to be a match made in heaven for my Enduro builders kit. I toothed it All The Way Up to 24 so it wouldn’t be unbearably slow, and it appeared to work… until I made it do the crawling. Even with the overheat threshold set high, overheat over and over. I’m gonna slap the 1800 in there and Tooth It Down to probably 19. I hope that’s better.
Prior to the overheating (from actual crawling and not just speed-crawling around my dead lawn) I was even considering a smaller spur to get the speed just above the half-brisk walk.
So, ya let me down! I wanted to believe the 1200 had a purpose but I’m just not sure it does 😢
IINM, the lower kv actually make less power on the whole. Less torks. I really wanted the runt of the litter to make my puppy scramble! It just doesn’t, and makes me feel caught with my pants down. Never had my 1800 overheat in my 10iii with two hours of two-speed trailing.
Just sayin
I’m running the 1200 with a 24T- on an XF. That’s roughly the equivalent of 18/87 gearing on the regular X. You were WAY overgeared.
@@CrawlerCanyonMade the same mistake and put the 24t pinion into the Stealth X. But XF in the video has a different ratio than the Stealth X.
With a stock 18T pinion:
The stealth XF has the 64,4 gear ratio (no overdrive).
The Stealth X has 47,1 ratio front and 49,8 rear (stock overdrive).
If you put the 24T pinion into the XF, the ratio is 48,3 and you are on similar ratio as stock Stealth X.
If you put the 24T pinion into the X, as I did, the ratio is ca 35. This is similar to for example the TRX4 Sport stock ratio (36,25).
So what I have to do now...
Put back the 18T, get the final gear around 48 and use 3S instead of 2S sounds better to me, than buy the Fusion 1800 instead of 1200...
1200 it is...
Get a gen9. Do it. I know you are not a fan od rcr but try it. I dare you... lol. Honestly would just like to see what you would end up doing with it.
I will no longer participate in Redcat's Festival of False Economy. I also imagine that the uncorrectable suspension issues of previous generations still linger on, as the Gen9 features that "specially designed Panhard bar," aka a bent one, which means they never designed the front end correctly in the first place. Everything I've touched Redcat has felt substandard, but that was okay, because they were tricking us into purchasing with crazy low entry prices. It takes more than the purchase price of a Redcat to be dropped into a Redcat just to make it properly functional. To make it good? No idea.
I won't bear the burden of proof for future Redcat-- no one is going to convince me otherwise (I got tricked into buying a Wendigo by recommendations from reputable crawler channels) and I am absolutely not going to throw money away trying to find out myself. I bet every crawler channel out there has some degree of rave review of the Gen9. The same channels that raved about the Gen8 and the Wendigo. I'm not mad, I'm just disappointed.
@CrawlerCanyon I completely understand. . . I've actually had decent time with everest10 to Gen8. Always made & was able to make some adjustments a little fabricating, & been quite proformable. 😉... I do understand where you are coming from as well. Love the work you have been doing this last year. Great work. Keep it up, please, thank you!
Axial ripsaw
Axial had the Ripsaws. ;)
While the Ripsaw might be one of the world's most perfect portal tires, it is ultimately held back by it's greatest strength: being 4.3" tall. I'll tell you the same thing I yell at the clouds: Mfrs. should stop with the making 47 different tread patterns, and make more options of tires that WORK. Ripsaws OWN. Same with Tusks. Give us 4.19", 4.35", 4.65", and 5.25" versions of each. I'd buy 'em all.
This is ust opposite of what Holmes Hobbies says and show's with math in their video .
You should have more torque and low speed controll with higher kv/volt and low gear vs low kv and high gear at the same wheel speed 🤔
I thought the exact same thing prior to testing. But here we are. White papers are great, but I'll take empirical evidence every time.
That is not a fair comparison u changed the gearing it might be close but if someone was trying to make a decision between the two it's still not a direct comparison
Of course I changed the gearing! You can't drop kV by a third and run the same gearing, unless you enjoy topping out at 2mph. No one, and by that I mean NO ONE changes the power system and doesn't also change the gearing to accommodate. If that were the case, there would be a lot of TRX-4 Sports out there doing 20mph.
I can put the whole video in a TL;DW format if you'd like: 1200 for straights, 1800 for portals. Gear to your liking. Done.
@@CrawlerCanyon I understand what u are doing I didn't mean to offend you but I think you're missing my point I mean it would have been nice to say , heres what it does with the 1200 and heres what it does with the 1800 same gearing and then one could gear accdordly, im building a comp crawler and was planning on a fusion wasn't sure what kv to go with then again I might go with an out runner
@@sammiller8497 yeah, don't put a Fusion in a comp crawler. It's too long, it's too big, it's too heavy. Odds are it won't even fit.
Stellar job on the comparison, but oh my God so much talking
You may well be in the wrong place.
just out of curiosity, what radio are you running? i run flysky gt3b on some of my crawlers, and with that i can adjust the exponential on the radio. it allows my fusion pro 2300kv in my trx 4 sport to run at an INSANELY low speed and perfect control with it adjusted right. i recommend trying the gt3b radio. i absolutely love it for its adjustability.
I use Radiolink RC4GS for about half of the fleet. The rest are on few RC6GS, a handful of FlySky GT5s, and a couple of Airtronics MX-3X and MT-4.