The SECRET To Make Odd Time Signatures FLOW (And Not Sound Choppy)

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  • Опубліковано 7 чер 2024
  • Complete Chord Mastery course: www.musictheoryforguitar.com/...
    Master of the Modes course: www.musictheoryforguitar.com/...
    0:00 A song in honor of our guest!
    1:00 "Finland , Finland , Finland
    2:00 The country where I want to be
    3:00 Pony trekking or camping or just watching T.V.
    4:00 Finland , Finland , Finland
    5:00 It's the country for me
    6:00 You're so sadly neglected
    7:00 And often ignored
    8:00 A poor second to Belgium
    9:00 When going abroad"
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КОМЕНТАРІ • 50

  • @MusicTheoryForGuitar
    @MusicTheoryForGuitar  2 роки тому +5

    And now that the cat's out of the bag, watch out how many YT videos will repeat this... but you know where you've heard it first :-)
    Want more examples? Have a look at the videos I made on odd & strange time signatures and how they are used in songs:
    - How to count time signatures: ua-cam.com/video/1RSyaTFPVqY/v-deo.html
    - 5/4: ua-cam.com/video/948iIiI2kmQ/v-deo.html
    - 7/4: ua-cam.com/video/m8ZinEYa3bQ/v-deo.html
    - 15/8: ua-cam.com/video/XfAXVCkdOFQ/v-deo.html
    - 3/4 vs 6/8: ua-cam.com/video/3zNiKROEHAk/v-deo.html
    - Changing time signature in a song: ua-cam.com/video/ec7wiBkHLC4/v-deo.html

  • @d.l.loonabide9981
    @d.l.loonabide9981 2 роки тому +9

    Most folks don't have much trouble understanding 2/4, 3/4, or 4/4. So 5/4 could be thought of as a bar of 3 followed by a bar of 2 (or vice versa). 7/4 could be thought of as a bar of 4 followed by a bar of 3.
    Another idea is to skip the last "and" (last upbeat) of an ordinary time signature. This will turn 3/4 into 5/8, and 4/4 into 7/8. Hope this is helpful to someone.

    • @christopherheckman7957
      @christopherheckman7957 2 роки тому +1

      ... and that bar of 4 (in 7/4) gets subdivided into two bars of 2 in the mind. It's all 2s and 3s.

  • @minhtantran4111
    @minhtantran4111 2 роки тому +6

    THIS IS IT!!! A VIDEO FOR MATH-ROCK, POST-ROCK AND PROGRESSIVE PLAYERS!!!!!!

  • @cielphantomhive1872
    @cielphantomhive1872 10 місяців тому +1

    Wow! This was incredibly userful and well explained. Thank you so much for this video!

  • @christopherheckman7957
    @christopherheckman7957 2 роки тому +2

    (1) Don Ellis wrote a lot of jazz in weird time signatures. He once titled an album "Live in 3⅔/4 Time." And Frank Zappa loved weird time signatures from the beginning.
    (2) 04:00 In addition, there also tend to be more rhythmic events (claps) in the second half than in the first half. This gives a feel of acceleration.
    When I was waiting for a dental appointment, I turned this into an algorithm, for distributing K events into N time slots (with K < N). If K = 1, put the event at the first position (I don't like syncopation); otherwise, divide K into two numbers K1 and K2 (both less than N/2, with K1 < K2), and put K1 events into the first N/2 slots and then K2 in the next N/2. Alternatively, if K = 2, then you put an event at the start and one at the end.
    Example: [K,N] = [5, 8] -> [2, 4][3, 4] -> [2,4][1,2],[2,2]->[2,4][1,2][1,1],[1,1]. This comes out as a dotted quarter note followed by an eighth note, followed by a quarter note, then two eighth notes.
    05:12 3 eighths followed by 3 eighths followed by 2 eighths is the bridge to "Red" by King Crimson.

  • @liquidsolids9415
    @liquidsolids9415 2 роки тому +3

    This makes me want to make a song with drum fills at the beginning of every section. :) Great content, as usual. Thanks, and en-joy!

  • @johnmac8084
    @johnmac8084 2 роки тому +2

    That really makes sense, thanks Tommaso

  • @rumuco
    @rumuco 2 роки тому +1

    you read my mind, really this is the best channel i could find!

  • @kbear8293
    @kbear8293 2 роки тому +1

    Good stuff. Thanks for the upload.

  • @gregoryhaddock5395
    @gregoryhaddock5395 2 роки тому +1

    I've never really consciously realized this point. Thanks for explaining it! 🙏🏼

  • @d.l.loonabide9981
    @d.l.loonabide9981 2 роки тому +2

    Great explanation.

  • @YourCaliBos
    @YourCaliBos 2 роки тому +1

    This is so helpful, thank you for doing this . Cheers BC

  • @EclecticEssentric
    @EclecticEssentric 2 роки тому +1

    Thanks, TZ!

  • @scottkidwellmusic9175
    @scottkidwellmusic9175 2 роки тому +1

    Thank you, Tommaso 🙏

  • @TedBoyRomarino
    @TedBoyRomarino 2 роки тому +1

    Hello internet! Great stuff as always, Tommaso.
    BPM modulation is also an interesting subject I've been learning lately.

  • @marcoramponi8462
    @marcoramponi8462 2 роки тому +2

    2:32 .... "diciamo" spotted

  • @Henrix1998
    @Henrix1998 2 роки тому

    Im not sure if you said it but sometimes longer bar is used as a break or transition to start a new section

  • @thedebatehitman
    @thedebatehitman 2 роки тому +6

    The best-sounding riff in an odd-time (7/4) is “Blackened,” by Metallica. It just sounds so natural, whereas most riffs in odd time tend to sound forced.

    • @leegosling
      @leegosling 2 роки тому +3

      That track is great, but Floyd and Tull used a lot of odd times and time shifts… most of those flow pretty well… Gabriel’s Solsbury Hill also.

    • @KarstenJohansson
      @KarstenJohansson 2 роки тому +2

      @@leegosling Oh gawd the number of times I've had people try to convince me Money is just 4/4 time. Yeesh...

    • @MusicTheoryForGuitar
      @MusicTheoryForGuitar  2 роки тому +1

      Karsten: and all the times I've see people fighting on Money being in 7/4 vs 7/8...

    • @MusicTheoryForGuitar
      @MusicTheoryForGuitar  2 роки тому +1

      Debate Hitman: and the shift to the sung part in 6/4 is quite smooth too!

    • @KarstenJohansson
      @KarstenJohansson 2 роки тому +1

      @@MusicTheoryForGuitar lol yea. The excuse goes that the riff is played enough times that it ends on the proper beat. It doesn't cycle through the beat, but hey!

  • @kitaristifi
    @kitaristifi 2 роки тому +2

    That's me! WOOOHOOOO! :D

    • @MusicTheoryForGuitar
      @MusicTheoryForGuitar  2 роки тому +1

      Yes it is :) Did you spot the little song in your honor? ;-))

    • @renejohnkerkdyk5006
      @renejohnkerkdyk5006 2 роки тому +1

      @@MusicTheoryForGuitar ua-cam.com/video/baHsoEAAMZU/v-deo.html&ab_channel=MontyPython

    • @kitaristifi
      @kitaristifi 2 роки тому

      @@MusicTheoryForGuitar Yes! It even has mixed meters in the vocals :)

    • @MusicTheoryForGuitar
      @MusicTheoryForGuitar  2 роки тому +1

      You got it :)

    • @MusicTheoryForGuitar
      @MusicTheoryForGuitar  2 роки тому +1

      Kitaristifi: it's indeed the perfect song for talking mixed meters with a Finn :) (Fin? Finnn? Finnish person? Elf?)

  • @travelersamigo4753
    @travelersamigo4753 2 роки тому +1

    Hi Tomasso. I've just started your Master of the Modes course. I am working through Session One but I cannot find the Introduction and Instructions Session on the resources. Could you point me in the right direction please? Thank you, Chris

    • @travelersamigo4753
      @travelersamigo4753 2 роки тому +1

      I've found it! Really looking forward to this journey. Great resources

    • @MusicTheoryForGuitar
      @MusicTheoryForGuitar  2 роки тому

      Glad you found it! :-)In future, whenever you ask a question, just write me at tommaso@musictheoryforguitar.com (this is the fastest way to get an answer from me)

    • @travelersamigo4753
      @travelersamigo4753 2 роки тому +1

      @@MusicTheoryForGuitar Perfect! :}

  • @Micky-yo3ng
    @Micky-yo3ng 2 роки тому

    I’d love to hear some examples

  • @necudavamkazem
    @necudavamkazem 2 роки тому +1

    Shoutout to all the people who watched the video enough times to notice the bonus song

  • @kekcsi
    @kekcsi 2 роки тому

    Good point technical point. But also consider this. You have a word. It is 7 syllables long. This is the word you want to sing. Some composers would add a rest to the end so that it fits in their 4/4 bar. Some would add a yeah. Some will just decide to cut the bar and continue with the next line and don't mind ending up in a 7/8 meter. In this process you will for sure get a flowing, natural rhythm even if odd. But if you start the composition with the goal to have weird odd time signatures, it is hard work to make it sound natural. Because it is not natural. Most of the time the listener will feel that you want to sound very progressive, which is a legit message but not very deep, right?

    • @MusicTheoryForGuitar
      @MusicTheoryForGuitar  2 роки тому

      If you write songs with 7 syllables words, then how natural the odd-time signatures sound is the last of your problems...

    • @kekcsi
      @kekcsi 2 роки тому

      @@MusicTheoryForGuitar :)) Maybe that is why there are so many 4/4 songs. But seriously, two words adding up to 7 beats will do.

  • @Xplora213
    @Xplora213 2 роки тому

    Check out Meshuggah - Millennium Cyanide Christ for the most absurd time signatures that continue to sound good. I think it’s in 23/16. This song is responsible for most of the bizarre Stuff we hear now. This combined with Future Breed Machine... yikes. So good.
    That said, I don’t like most of Meshuggah. Getting that flow to sound good is crucial.

    • @MusicTheoryForGuitar
      @MusicTheoryForGuitar  2 роки тому +1

      Far from me to diminish Meshuggah's influence, but if I had to mention THE most influential piece re:odd time signatures, then it would be Stravinskij's Rite of Spring. I mean, there are more than 400 time signature changes in ~35 minutes of music with some crazy ones in there too. And it flows great! (I'm defining "influential" as "most copied")

  • @wfly81
    @wfly81 2 роки тому

    Basically what he's saying is establish a rhythm and melody that is fairly conventional and makes sense to the ear...then cut out the less interesting/longer notes at the end of the phrase. Because typically, the stronger and more intricate part of the melody will be towards the front end. And longer held and less strong parts will be at the end of a melody...so you can more easily cut out those notes in the melody (or the trails of longer notes), which also truncates the beats...creating odd signatures.
    Because it's a psychological game at the end of the day. Give your audience something they can grasp, then quickly cut the fat...that way the audience can still follow the already established idea. And that rushing through the melody creates a sense of urgency.

    • @MusicTheoryForGuitar
      @MusicTheoryForGuitar  2 роки тому +1

      Mmmh, this is not what I say. For one, I do not suggest to 'cut a melody'.

  • @znmaf
    @znmaf 2 роки тому

    A Eurocentric view .When you’re born in a culture of rhythms like in Africa ( the mother continent of Modern music) ,this explanation is not applicable

    • @MusicTheoryForGuitar
      @MusicTheoryForGuitar  2 роки тому

      Maybe. Show me a few pieces that you consider examples of African rhythm that are in odd time signatures, so I can see if it applies.