Can you guess the time signature? (ft. phonon)
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- Опубліковано 6 гру 2020
- ○ Patreon: / shawncrowder
○ phonon: / phononmusic
○ emme (this song): sptfy.com/5jRh
Phonon and I break down his new track "emme". Can you guess the time signatures?
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'Guess the signature!'
'No, you're close, I actually did e/5.3 but with 13 uneven tempered double-nested tuplets at 35 bpm. But then I add a 1/8th beat every prime-numbered measure.'
alternating between diminished dominant 76th add b15 Slash e flat 29-EDO and F15 add6 omit 11 #13 sus 4 in dorian with pythagorean temperament detuned to 435.2+(1^e)/π
* no it's just 4/4 *
@@thefastmeow Laughs in Meshuggah
that's actually a cool idea, the prime-numbered measure thing
e? as in 2.718?
I'm new to music theory so please explain
brb making music in 420/69 time signature
@@coracias If you fill a bar of 4/4 evenly with one giant 69-tuplet then that gives you the note rate for X/69 time signatures. Since everything is related back to 4/4 (in traditional notation anyway) and you can hypothetically fit any number of notes into that you can actually figure out how to put any number at the bottom of a time signature, although actually figuring out how to play any of it once you get out of the "easy" stuff like X/12 and X/20 is another matter entirely.
Unrelated to that but related to the subject of 69-tuplets, I've been watching a lot of this drumline channel EMCproductions lately and he actually has a video where he performs a piece with tons of 69-tuplets in it. No irrational time signatures but it's still pretty wild and well worth checking out for anyone who likes to mix absurd music and memes.
69/420*
it is more easy to parse and more reasonable
@@forbiddenfursona no but it would be less funny
@@ldub0775 it is still funny because we all keep saying "69420" nowadays than the other way around
@@forbiddenfursona yea but it would be less funny
I am officially a fan of phonon! 17.75/40 is wild.... I'd love to see if a group of live musicians could play that groove *together* and *accurately*...
thank you !! i love your work so that means a lot
@@phononmusic There are many freaks out there with the chops to do this kind of crazy shit
@@andy148 I would even go so far as to say there aren't many.
What Sean thought up here was pretty close, but not quite. He came up with 7+5+6/8 = 18/8. Close but not really. And I'd argue that the bottom number of 40 didn't really matter anyway because who the hell's gonna hear it as 10tuplets instead of 8th notes that everyone jumps straight to.
Occam's razor. Simple is best.
I'd love to see a live jazz, dubstep fusion band
Oh you like music?
Name every time signature
oh you like music? name every interval ratio
@@forbiddenfursona damn i think i just like math
There's OVER 9000!!!!
{x/y | x∈(-∞,∞), y∈(-∞,∞)}
There.
@@niji_k thanks
Not sure if this video is about math or music anymore lol
Music is maths
Music is the number moving in space and time
@@santotiago80 Boards of Canada - Music Is Math
Music is Math
ah, yes, I see. what you're saying is... math + math = math
7:00 - even Shawn can't believe he's saying the phrase "71 one-hundred-and-sixtyth notes"
Phonon is just mad man and I love it. Dubstep scene really need it someone like this
Listen to karunkula on souncloud
@@sebastiannanook531 now that I've searched it, and new to the broad jazz genre, how should I enjoy this?
@@freakdeath1020 voljum
@@agamaz5650 the 3 greats jn jazztronica/future riddim rn are qwaston, phonon and voljum. Immense talent
@@samuelivascu7633 Don't forget Dr. Lobster!
I like the SpongeBob background.
Yes
71/160 help
Felt,
Also hey again Undervania
@@enderkoregameing8090 LOL
The second one I'm pretty sure it sounded like 13/8 (the first measure is 10/8)
Eighth notes come at around 220 bpm I guess
Fancy seeing you here
Phonon is like the equivalent of modern art
Like yeah you could have done 5.2/4 as your time signature
*but did you though*
and now we just gotta hope that it becomes big enough for 5.2 to be a daily time signature
I find it fascinating how the track maintains its musicality in a way that you can still tap to it in time after hearing it a few times, and that it still feels natural to listen to. Amazing work
repetition legitimizes
repetition legitimizes
thats actually what we need to keep music concept evolving
repetition legitimizes
repetition legitimizes
So I understood the analyses of each section but I would never have been able to hear these things myself. Really incredible to watch you just... hear these things 😂
first hehe
Please remix a song by CarBomb. The time-space continuum hasn't been ripped far enough apart.
@@dwightbrady5599 FUCKING YESSSS
Bro phonon how you call this, MathStep or what? Lmao
@@NicolasPL_ *POLYRIDDIM*
@@notoriusdrifter40 but this is not riddim, right?
amazing that someone could out-nerd shawn on rhythms, but it happened
Almost spit my coffee when we get to 8:46 hahaha.
Phonon is like the Jacob Collier of Rhythm
Imagine if they collab on something. They are completely different styles but they are also both so insane that they can make it work
FRRRRRRR
phonon:i actually try to make a math formula
my 2 brain cells: math?
4:01 7:17 he is the only one who can headbang to his music
I can get close to headbanging to this.
We are watching history in the making. This kid is gonna make serious moves.
There's a ton of mathematical rigamaroll going on here that could basically only be theory crafted with a DAW/analog MIDI grid. Really cool but VERY VERY far out by traditional timing standards.
I love phonon's reaction to this as well. He admits to being more programmer than musician but doesn't diminish his musical quality in any way. Great sport, love the man.
These non-integer signatures sound good and idgaf what anyone says...
*Pythagoras has entered the chat*
Adam Neely: *4/20 is the meme time signature*
Shawn Crowder at 9:36: *4/30*
I am both terrified and in love how out of the box these time signatures are
The audible YES i screamed when I got this one right.
I did a video on Facebook years before this whole quintuplet craze took over the experimental music world so whenever I can count an irrational meter, it makes me happy.
Love your videos Shawn!! Always teach me something crazy.
So, is Sungazer playing this live now Shawn?
For Adam's sake, I hope not
I love phonon because he has the absolute balls to do something in EDM that would even be way out there in a Jazz environment and also because he's a cutie
Love the information and insight. Good collaboration.
Phonon: *listens to a scratched CD on the car* "that's my jam right there"
8:20 broke my mind
This is insanely interesting haha. I was completely overjoyed watching it. Great content!
Great!! I'm so into this type of stuff!
That is so far over my head that I'm afraid I might drown.
crossover of the century
Two legends together, WoW
This video's gonna be fun 😉
Pure math - Xenakis would appreciate it
About the first rhythm:
I usually divide septuplets into 2+2+3, and quintuplets into 3+2, and one of the hi-hat hits is almost excactly in between the 3 and the 2. This makes it into 1.5+1.5+2, which is extremely similar to 2+2+3, and tricks my ear into believing that it's septuplets. Going off just the "main" pulses, the difference between septuplet and quintuplet swing is extremely small (about 3% of the entire beat), so it's pretty hard to tell from just that.
It's subtle. That 1.5 + 1.5 + 2 is the Mission Impossible groove with the last two beats tied. That's my reference.
This reminds me of composers of the earlier 20th century, like Henry Cowell, writing extremely complex polyrhythmic music that could only be played on player pianos or specially designed instruments like the Rythmicon. It’s cool to see this kind of stuff slowly work it’s way into modern EDM. It makes sense since DAWs are sort of like a modern version of a player piano.
I became an instant fan. Wow. What cool weird shit. Producing dubstep with unusual time signatures (not necessarily irrational, but out of 4/4) was what I wanted to do when starting to learn production around 4 years ago. I don't know if I'll ever get there, but damn, Phonon, I *love* this.
I didn't understand anything but I loved the SpongeBob green screen background
This is so amazing man. My buddies and I are almost 100% sure we are the first people making rap in odd time signatures; We have tracks in 11 and 13 and 9 and all that fun stuff BUT...we have not made one with any tuplets within the signature! 🤔 looks like we gwon be hoppin in da lab real quik 🤔
Hi Shawn, love your channel and your rhythmic madness!
Can I ask you how did you develop this amazing rhythmic awareness?
Greetings from Italy!
I was listening to All Nighter Vol. 5 and was like hey, this sound design sounds kinda familiar! And that's how I started following phonon lol
And they say DJ's don't know music theory
This is awesome, also WTF, this is some super cool rhythmic shit.
He’s so young!! Holy shit the way his music sounded like he woulda been like 40 because my brain can’t even process it it’s so epic I love his music
Great video , i didnt understand anything , but great vid
I felt so clever after guessing the last one HAD to have nested tuplets lol
holy shit dude! this is like advanced algebra of time signatures! Pure Crazy!!!
I was so happy for having figured the first one out
then everything happened
Could you make a short video just for the formular at the end and fill in easy example numbers. I did not get all the Ws, Gs and Is etc.
Great video though. There is another shortcut to find out what exact tempo the modulated new tempo has. So you can get it right away for practicing a figure, groove and so on.
Example:
Old tempo is 113 bpm per quarter Note, we play 16th notes. Then, for instance, you want to modulate, so that every 5th sixteenth note is the new pulse. Use the following way:
Old tempo / grouping (e. g. 3 over 5, 7 over 3 etc.)
In this case we have 5 over 4
113 / 5
And then multiply by the number of the structure "over y" in this case y = 4
113/5 = 22.5 x 4 new tempo = 90.5 bpm
Rule of thump: When the grouping is smaller then the "over y" number the modulated tempo is faster; is the grouping number bigger, like in the example, the new tempo is slower.
Alternate title: Shawn Crowder speaks to an actual Time Lord
this is sick
Some of these meters are refreshingly awesome, I was surprised. phonon should check out Project JDM if he wants to figure out how to notate micro rhythms
I recommend you to make the same experiment with Bulgarian folk music :)
This is so cool
Really does raise the question of what is left to prove on physical instruments. We may have a far more 'human' experience on guitars/basses/saxes/drums/etc, but in terms of boundary pushing, electronic and synthesized music is far more precise than us. Its like trying to draw a fractal. Humans can only get so close, computer simulations can repeat the exact pattern with perfect detail.
But music is just wiggly air so fuck it
I now know where I personally draw the line on music thats "too technical". XD
Dang, get we drummers have a lot more counting to do than we thought 😂
NO WAY!!! LETS GOOOO!!!
RIDDIM
omg dubstep on a normal youtube channel??? omggggg im not crying i promise
Wise words at the end of the video
These time signatures are crazy
WE GOT THE COLLAB OF THE CENTURY
YESSS
This is just a flex on how much music theory he knows
Except its not really music theory, it's just useless stuff people make up to artificially make their compositions seem smarter. No real use for the concepts mentioned in this vid
@@KonStafylides you make music?
@@KonStafylides Jazz wouldn’t be the way it is without music theory
@@dyll1187 What does that have to do with my comment? Do you think I said theory is useless? I said that concepts like fractional time signatures and jargon described in this video are useless and just made to show off, with no real musical value
@@KonStafylides I mean phonon really uses this stuff. So its not useless
I LOVE PHONON
aaaggghhh!!! brain spinning help!! MUST STOP !
Can you make a video about that nested metric modulation part?
Phonon is just a musical genius, let's just leave it at that
I feel like my brain just exploded
phonon is actually a god
Music and math, you love to see it
What !!!? My mind hurts lol. I'm still not figure it out what time signature is a song with a simple odd signature less I can think about this craziness 😂 !!!
I love how phonon just casually appears
Alright, i'm confused. Hopefully someone here can help me out with this.
At the end, with the metric modulations, I think I get what is being said, but I don't quite understand how a 30th note becoming the new 16th note would work. To me, it seems like the music would almost double in speed.
I decided to try two 30th notes, or one 15th note, becoming the new 16th note, which means, if you're writing it like Shawn did (the tempo change and metric conversion at 9:43), the new tempo would be 140 * 15 / 16 = 131.25. However, when I played a metronome to it, it wasn't. After TWO metric modulations, the tempo was 131.25, but after one, it was 135.554417..., which is 140 * sqrt(15) / sqrt(16). When I saw this, I decided to come to the comments for help, because I genuinely have no idea how to interpret an irrational metric modulation.
Am I missing something (probably)? Is the video wrong (probably not)? Is phonon a wizard (yes)?
8:22 He says that he is modulating to 3 notes evenly spaced in 2 quintuplets(20th notes), so Shawn explained it pretty rationally as for every 2 "20th" notes, there are now 3 evenly spaced nested tuplets; which would mean that for every 20 "20th" notes, there is 30 new nested tuplets, grouped in 3's for every 2 "20th notes". (Hence, "30th notes").
How that becomes the new pulse in relation to the old tempo is simply that (old 30th note) = (new 16th note), which would then mean that for the tempo, the new "quarter note" would be four of the old "30th notes" that are becoming the new "16th notes". So the old 16th note increased in tempo by a factor of 30/16, or 15/8, or 1.875x faster. (Assuming old tempo is 140bpm, 140 × 1.875 = 262.5bpm for the new quarter note)
😵🙃😣😅😬
I rolled my eyes at the thought of 5.2 over 4, but when I heard it I was like 😎👍🏽💥
crazy
Hey Shawn if you will .... could you figure out the time signature for the Eddie Jobson tune “ Who my Friends?”
Hello Shawn Crowder and phonon, thank you for explaining how this song was going on there. It really helps me (or us) a lot.
But I'd like to correct something there about 2nd drop that used "71/160" as you said. On 5:24 phonon said that he "viewed" it as 2 bars of 17.75 over 10, right? So I thought it should've been as "2 bars" filled with 17.75 notes (1st bar with 10 notes and 2nd bar with the rest of those). I think we don't need to multiply the denominator by 4 (in order to "fulfill the measures", because it's already "full", right? I guess).
So the time signature should stay on 17.75/10 at 140 BPM. Because we need to avoid that fractional numerator, then this should be all multiplied by 4, and then, the final result is 71/40.
Beside of that, those are all fine. So how do you think? I might get this wrong, so please correct me if I'm mistaken something. Thank you, and have a good day for you all :)
Top 10 anime crossovers
I think that Sonar - "Waves And Particles" is a complex one.
“i am a person in a chair making funny music.”
relatable
I'm not stupid, but phonon makes me feel like it
6:56 That should probably piss off any math teacher.
My band conductor who thinks that I play out of time don't understand that I'm just playing in a time signature he can't comprehend.
8:29 That thing about a whole triplet nested in two quintuplets (I don't even know if I'm right with the terminology now), isn't it actually the same thing that is briefly present in the end of "Electro"?
yep, exactly!
@@ShawnCrowder where is that at? I hear the modulation where one sixteenth note becomes one 20th note (sixteenth note quintuplet), but i can't find any triplet-in-2-quintuplet figures
this rules
5.2/4 makes me angry for some reason? need to think about my life choices
emme is like if jazz and future riddim had a child
Connor, I summon you bro for us dubstep noobs!
My brain hurts so much now.... 🤯
cover it !!!
I'm alright at understanding this stuff, I'm just not sure how the hell you'd write music for or fine tune music in under a time signature like this. Eh, still impressive to know that there is always someone willing to make the most impractical and most confusing stuff sound good at least :)
What? That’s a crossover
I was not... wow you guys... damn...
This is a mindfuck
For a 17-18yo, Phonon is god damnt smart.
I love you phonon, but the background made me realize you are the human spongeybubble
he looks so young brb losing all hope for myself