Let's Fix the Issue | Darkest Dungeon 2
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- Опубліковано 23 лип 2024
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In this video I round up the majority of comments y'all left when we first mentioned hero balance. A lot of good ideas, some repeating, shows there is much that can be done to make playing the heroes more enjoyable. Thank you again everyone!
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Welp, im always have been a sucker for succubus so:
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1 more reason why stuns in DD2 would not be as bad as DD1 : there are no trinkets that augment stun chance.
exactly, most stuns are replaced by daze or are completely deleted abilities. only stun piercing is pd so far with physician
@@blockername MaA has a path that buffs rampart stun chance
And even with those 2 Paths, Stun is shit. Like, i've managed to make good Stun teams in DD2 but it takes so much thought and effort, when i could just use Vanguard and Alchemist.
not too many but there's a +25% stun resist dark impulse and if i remember correctly also others that give heals or regen on stun resist?
Thick hit the nail on the spot : first a balance patch to make heroes strong and fun and THEN you balance the enemies to follow the heroes.
May i expand on it and say "make every playstyle on every hero strong" cos some styles are just too hard to make work. As shuff mentioned, some styles NEED paths to make them work
One of the biggest problems DD2 has right now is its lack of balance in regards to skills and paths. You play a couple of funky comps and set-ups, get reminded how much they suck and for the most part revert back to the staples. And after a while this gets very repetitive because realistically there are only 1/3 of the paths and maybe 40% of the skills available to chose from. Yet, whenever you bring up this issue on Discord people get super upset and personal about their favorite characters and say everything perfect and no changes need to be made.
To talk about stuns : in the mail i sent you i changed all stuns to be more flexible WITH the tokens. For example Rampart stuns if target is Vuln, Blinding Gas stuns if Blind on enemies or Crit token on PD. The stuns need to be weaker than DD1 but they should be more interactive and flexible.
Combine that with enemy attacks that de-buff themselves and you have some Juice. Enemy strikers that strike fast and strike hard, but have an inbuilt weakness, slow enemy supports that clear those de-buffs and your party in the middle either exploiting their de-buffs for stuns and other effects or killing the supports to make the debuffs stick.
@@LddStyx No shit, i already have a balance patch for heroes AND enemies in my head. Like, i took 2 days to think about it. And i am a guy that thinks that all enemies should receive a buff but to have a caveat. Like for example Make Way ! would inflict Daze and Weak on Docker, and if he had an Immobilize token when he used that ability, it would not Shuffle. The token system opens creativity and strategy, we just got to make interactive.
I think that bleed should have a chance to decrease bleed resistance every time it ticks, burn should randomly spread to an adjacent hero, and blight might just have a chance to stress or maybe decrease their speed over time. If we're going secondary effects anyways.
Enemies can't be stressed though, it should be something that works on both heroes and monsters
@@NotBamOrBing I didn't really know what to do with blight honestly. Maybe it would have a chance to apply weak tokens?
@@gavinhill111 or it could reduce debuff resistance
I think the problem with CC in this game is that you end up wasting 2 turns to stun someone for 1 (either by stacking daze or wasting combos) turn which sets you back by a turn. and it isn't even guaranteed to work which is the cherry on top, nothing feels better than wasting 2 turns to advance nothing.
It's hard to balance Encore because heroes should be allowed powerful abilities (and it's fun). I think making the Encore'ed character act at the end of the round or at the next round would solve the issue.
I would like to see encore not let the encored character use the skill they already used that turn
Thanks for sticking with this game and working with the community to publicly provide feedback to RH.
Wouldn't be here without y'all :)
I think shuff completely forgetting that intermezzo exists while talking about bleed paths is pretty telling of Intermezzo's viability lol
I love mezzo but I don't play it enough and it shows.
Mezzo's Echoing March change being a separate debuff makes it so much worse, because you have to land the "bleed on move debuff" to get bleed on move, and ALSO need to land the "move every turn" debuff to get them to move to bleed on move. Having to land two different debuffs to get the effect of one of them is so inconsistent, at least in dd1 where you had to pass two checks (accuracy and debuff as opposed to March's "two separate debuffs") you could pretty commonly buff accuracy
8:10 Highwayman also has a passive : combo on crit riposte
True! Forgot about that
Huh i wondered why i got those combos for free...
All skills should be good regardless of path. The path should only change the way the character plays.
There's a worrying trend with the latest patches of them tuning hero self-debuffs to always be not resistable. Like with Revenge vulnerable and now with Pirouette daze. I've always been a proponent of self-debuffs innate to class, path, or skill being resistable, so players have an option to play around them, and in #feedback, the community agrees. It's a similar sort of artificial difficulty, like with skill thresholds except more insidious because patch notes are the only places the skills working this way are made transparent.
Good point. I always liked the scenarios where I could get more use out of certain resist trinkets and memories for some paths just because of this interaction and I honestly don't know why they decided to nerf this since it was quite niche and not overpowered at all.
When i play Aspirant, i don't even run Anamnesis. I just stab because it's more fun than getting 2 UP and then hitting for 4 DMG.
Aspirant is more fun in a DoT team than a raw damage one. Pair it with firestarter, plague grenade, acid rain, dragonfly etc to spread as much DoT as possible (still,stabbing is fun too, and dont forget leviathan's trophy to double the bleed). I think they should increase the effects of unchecked power skills when you have 3 tokens too, like Burning stars giving burn or spreading it to other enemies, anamnesis giving random negative tokens or giving a debuff which increases duration/applied DoT quantity and so on, and make it specific to each path so it's not too broken.
Bleed could have an effect of a chance of giving daze at round start (IF THE CHARACTER ISN'T ALREADY DAZED, to avoid getting stun-locked by a DoT, of all things), the reason for that is people losing blood tend to get dizzy
Also, beside Burn burning and destroying a random token at turn start, blight could, instead of destroying block and cause an overlap, reduce healing recieved, that way it becomes a tool by the enemies to neuter your healers prowess UNLESS they are also able to cleanse blight as well (that way Battlefield Medicine doesn't feel like a worse Indiscriminate Science, and Ministration would get a much needed indirect buff as well. Adrenaline Rush would get indirectly nerfed until upgraded and Suffer would work even better together with Flaggelant remaining toolkit)
Anamnesis restoring the Party Order/potentially removing Negative Tokens is actually a genius idea, though. That's the whole meaning of Anamnesis as a function as its described in occult lore, a "recollection of the past" (restoring the party order and all that) and it would be mad cool to see in play as something for him to do that _feels_ more occult. Just throwing a Bleed Cleave doesn't feel right aesthetically, y'know? Current Anamnesis could easily go on a new hero instead.
Oh great point. Didn't know that's what it meant.
@@ShuffleFM Without even going into occult, the word literally means "memory" so yeah that's a cool idea.
Now that's fun and inventive. Sure wish RH would implement that.
So one thing is that if we see more paths like Flagellant and Vestal, I'd like the UI to tell me exactly what changes are. I hate going back and forth between screens to compare every skill, and wind up just running Wanderer with them most of them. Just let the screen tell me when I mouse over the path exactly how each changed skill was changed.
imho nerfing almost always takes away fun. you can balance stuff better by not nerfing moves, unless its absolutely necessary. smokescreen, take aim and encore are incredible fun moves to play
Only one of those listed I'd say need a nerf is take aim. They're all fun to play, but take aim is the skill that every HWM build is going to run.
@@ShuffleFM Just make it a 3-turn cooldown. It would force people to use other skills, while still being very strong (and maybe remove the dodge).
@@ShuffleFM yeah. the nerf on take aim is a necessity. i agree :3
I mean base, only 3 heroes have passives, (Lep, Hel, BH) but there are tons of paths that give you more. Jester+, Sargeant, Carcass, Warlock, all Vestal paths change her passive for UP.
Before watching the video: I've tried out a bleed Hellion build with Rogue Dismas to move her around between ranks 1 and 2 to utilize both If It Bleeds and Bleed Out, and it is indeed hot garbage. Oftentimes the turn order doesn't line up correctly, and PBS tends to mess with the enemy positioning, which leads to a lot of dead turns where poor Boudica doesn't have anything to hit except for corpses (and having to waste Bleed Out on a corpse feels BAD). It can be decent if things line up just in the right way, but it doesn't happen nearly often enough to justify running it. So, in case you were wondering if you can maybe make Berserker work, you can't.
I wrote to Red Hook about it, maybe they'll look into it at some point.
All dedicated debuff abilities should be at least as good as smokescreen+ to convince me to not just use a damaging ability on everyone’s turn
Lots of good points which help to highlight the feast-or-fammine situation of the game's meta right now where it's "either go fast and kill fast or you wont win". Everyone made good points on their comments too.
Also, bc I've barely seen it commented, good on running with the sponsor. We understand you need to get food on youe plate and, with how YT'd ad revenue is running rn, you need to take some just to live. We support you on taking those choices Shuff.
Keep the good content runnin' 🎶
Very good summary. This is the main issue. And I hope they get to fix it asap. I would like them to also fix thing like you not gettng the sluice guaranteed at least once a run. And some quality of life changes like you actually been able to see wich confession has been beaten on each hero at the crossroads.
23:51 Combat items do be kinda busted when used right. A Party Hitting item in combo with Firestarters is just greek fire grenade, but better. Even crazier with Stagecoach upgrades or Trophys that increase your limit.
Lord Have mercy on the Act 1 Boss I killed round 2, using 4 Crows Feet on MAA with the Shield Extra Turn trinket, and Firestarter.
Very good video. I would also argue that there is a whole lot of competition for rank 1 and 3 to an extent, and not a lot for 4. PD, GR, Runaway, and Vestal are the only ones who really want to be in rank 4, and the damage isn't great outside of PD. Orphan struggles to get her non crits to stick, GR needs some more damage, and Vestal is a support class if she's in the back.
Daze should immediately move the target's turn to the end, instead of giving them a pseudo turn that clears the daze. I've had so many instances of not being able to stun an opponent because their turn lands between the two characters who could daze.
I seriously believe all of these issues can be dealt with by making hero stronger (especially with control skills like blinding gas).
In the video it's mentioned how losing a hero makes it very difficult to make it to the next inn but I lost my Leper in a team of Leper, Flag, HWM, and Occult. Leper was my main damage dealer but because I had 3 good characters. HWM consistent Damage, Flag consistent DoT, Occult consistent and strong control tools. I was able to beat Death, Collector, and Exemplar, and made it to the Inn.
Just started the video (it's been posted for 26 seconds) but i do think the latest patch was a really good step, (the beta branch i mean, not sure if its on live already)
I'm very happy to see this video, even if I have my own ideas for balancing. I'm going to enjoy modding in as many of the ideas mentioned here as I can manage.
Now i'm thinking, would it be cool to have a path for GR that changes SF to stealth and move foward dodgetank with repartee, and something to do on the frontline with pick and somo other ability to move her backwards other than pirouette, or remove the daze and nerf the damage
Shuff I'm only 16 minutes in and you've already advocated for two Hellion nerfs how could you do this to me
Only Howling End needs to be tweaked, so it can't nuke an enemy turn 1. On the rest of her kit, i would say she needs a buff.
Try not to simp for Helli Challenge for Derp. Difficulty: impossible
I have an idea for bleed. In addition to the damage over time, a 10% chance to give a vulnerable token.
Very good explanations and I appreciate your thoughts. I agree that it should be punishing when a hero dies but it seems overwhelmingly difficult. Maybe give the player an option to recruit BH mid-run, abet a high price?
In terms of differentiating the dot types from each other, I'd be more fine with them having different types of synergy. Blight synergy seems to be mostly about nuking individual targets by paying off the dot immediately. Like a targeted assassination, like poisoning. Bleed could lean into stuff like Hellion's Bloodlust or something else like debuffs that have higher chance against bleeding targets? Like slowly bleeding enemies out, sapping their strength to die pathetically. And then burn synergy could be more focused on exponential growth over time, like a fire growing. Ways to spread it between enemies, that kind of stuff.
my thing with the balance is the overshadowing some heroes have over others. MAA is like, the definitive tank that has like every tool he could even need and when i look at other frontlines like hellion or leper i feel like i'm just fighting myself playing them when i could be generating block + for free and not dealing with being blind/winded for no good reason (i don't have all my skill unlocked for them but the ones i do have still don't seem to hold a candle to MAA's versatility). I see this with plague doc ruling over dot comps and healing as well. Why would i run that one move with vestal that cures stun and dot when i can click battlefield medicine or indiscriminate science which is just objectively better? Reworking these characters to fill a more unique role i think would really help make each individual character shine in their own unique way. Hellion or leper could be reworked to focus more on bypassing enemy tokens like block, guard, and dodge. maybe vestal could focus more on regen healing (although vestal v plague doc is a less egregious case just cause pound for pound vestal has better healing, plague doc just has more versatile healing). i also agree with control/debuff focused loadouts needing to be improved, and dot needs to be a bit more unique, and omg some paths are just hot dogwater. runaway is my favorite character and orphan is my favorite path on her, but like coming off using plague doc just feels awful because alchamist does so much for blight piercing and the burn focused backline path for runaway has none it just feels awful. stuff like this leads me to just play maa, hwm, jest, and pd all the time and not take the time to play anyone else even though i like their characters better. The recent occultist buffs have been pretty fun, and a great step for the character, and i'm hoping a more hero oriented update addresses some of this
Also something to mention: there are effectively only 2 stress resist trinkets. Those being gilded mind and galvanizing goblet. They're not that good but it made me think what would happen if with inspiring tune mastered, not only could jester relieve stress and clear horror but also increase stress resist like in DD1. This way you could have characters with taunt be able to "tank" stress (there should still be like a 66 or 75% threshold). It would cost 1 mastery and a trinket slot to run which is definitely needy. it could also make hierarchy of sights theoretically viable, bonus dmg at the cost of investment, barks and a chance to melt down. But enemy crits should ignore stress resistance for balance. Thoughts?
Also I'm not saying scourge flagellant with galvanizing goblet and leper x jester but I'm also saying exactly that.
For Blight, Bleed, Fire. I think once you hit like 5 + per turn there should be some kind of effect for each game one. On enemies and players .
Totally agree with not having enough good debuff/support skills! The game is too damage oriented it would be a nice change to have more control in battles, and would open up opportunities to use skills that require more set up like malediction, backdraft, necrosis etc
I only have 1 like buff or change to carcass to make her a more viable tank and that is just removing the turn start winded and just giving her a -%DMG reduction, similar to poet Leper, idk very much about the balance of the game and such, so at least imo it should be 33%, the equivalent of 1 winded token
As a way to help get to the inn after a hero dies, what if the coach became lighter since it doesn’t need to carry them and all their stuff anymore which allows you to skip a number of nodes equal to the number of dead heroes?
theres a trinket that gives 100% hp and dmg per missing hero, which is insane on the right charactar, obviously much more situational than a constant reduction though.
Blight could be buffed for normal fight but weakened for boss fight by giving it decay with some balancing. Decay as in lose one blight every turn.
And a buff for burn would gain one per turn. But it would expire of course
Another reason why hero trinkets at first inn isn't a good fix for bad skills: instead of taking trinkets to buff bad skills to being okay, you'd obviously take trinkets that buff heroes to be broken. Why would you take Royal Summons when you could take Busker's Haul?
Cheers brother. Keep working like always!
would love to see or hear your thoughts on a dream/ideal hero patch. It'd be an interesting watch plus some helpful modders might even make it a reality. (id volunteer)
Leaving a comment so I can watch this later! Longtime watcher of your videos, but I just always cant catch your streams (different timezones suck)
Looking forward to hearing your opinions! Always found them really informative and well balanced.
Honestly, I agree with everything you said. For me? I just really dislike the enemy design since it forces you to kill them fast. High speeds, high resistances to stun, movement, debuffs, etc
Plus it always felt bad when the enemy uses all kinds of disruption tools. E.g. Cardinal’s yawning void sucks to play against, Lady can spam Mother’s Embrace and pull your entire team out of position. Same with Leviathan capturing heroes, because nobody except MAA is resisting his Undertow. Collector’s collected barristan is super irritating for throwing out highly consistent stuns over and over again.
Id love for hero balancing to allow us to play slower. When I run a team based around making leper hit super hard, sometimes the team gets shuffled or leper gets stunned and that plan falls apart instantly. Is it a bad team? Probably. But the fact that if you run squishies, and one enemy ambush shuffle (which is random too) can get aforementioned backliners killed instantly, feels really bad to play against.
A massive issue I have with enemies is the way rank 3 and 4 damage is so important. Reaching and killing backliners is often so important, especially enemies like cabin boys, drummers and bishops, and altars. Seething sigh needing only 9 to pop the back lung is okay, but the fact that you MUST run a hero that can do 9 consistently to the backline lung really limits team coms, especially if one is going for grand slam.
I hope red hook takes all your suggestions into account, because Id love to mess with teams that dont rely on MAA/jester for stress healing, and flagellant/plague doc for healing.
My ideas after watching this video:
-Grave Robber passive that rewards her for getting crits (like a dodge token on crit)
*also, can we list passives somewhere in-game?*
-Change Grave Robber's combo crit to guarantee combo
-Restrict Howling End to a health threshold (i.e. can only be used when Hellion is half health or lower)
-Give Berserker Hellion some way to get Death's Door tokens (let her play with her passive with more ease)
-Give Vestal a stun ability tied to Conviction stacks (probably on Chaplain)
-Change Runaway's "random adjacent enemy" effects to "all adjacent enemies" so she gets some significant benefit from combo (also let the effect utilize burn res piercing, since it can't)
What if there was a token that reduced effectiveness/skill chance of DOT or debug effects?
What if howling end only worked on enemies that have already been damaged? Either just less than 100% hp, or maybe even 75%?
I mean yeah, the skill is called howling END.
Regarding the random crit killing a character and ending the run: I think the issue isn't just that a single death usually means run == over, but that it can happen out of nowhere due to some bad RNG. Nothing feels worse than making all of the right gameplay choices and then losing a three hour run because a full health character takes a crit-crit-DOT and fails a 90% DBR before you ever take an action.
I think you could eliminate the worst of this feels-bad RNG if there was a limited (1x/run?) option for the player to restart a fight from the beginning; it won't save you from a hard fight you are not prepared for, but can avoid that one bad roll ending your run. Call it a "hope token" or something- maybe even offer ways to get more of them through special encounters?
I do agree that having a character dying shouldn't automatically mean the run is over, but I think the real issue it disguises is how detrimental to enjoying the game it is to lose multiple hours of investment (or more, if your characters have good memories) due to random chance rather than poor skill.
yeah most non dmg abilities need a massive buff to consider using
I think one of the biggest problems with damage over time is that unlike the first game there is no supplemental damage over time. Every skill that has a DOT has it as the main focus of the skill. The closest exceptions are searing strike and maybe open vein. I understand this is because of the generally lower numbers used in DD2, but it leads to DOT skills usually being very all or nothing which is really not fun.
As a side note, chaplain is bad. I don't think confessor is particularly great either, but chaplain is just so bad. The conviction generation is worse, the changes to hand of light make it worse (why does it reduce the skills damage??), it makes sanctuary a diet defender and removes the one unique thing about it (the stress heal), and to top it all off mace bash is flat out worse than judgement. I genuinely believe that wonderer fulfills the front rank protector vestal build better than chaplain.
Also, hot take: I think the death armor system should be applied to heroes and DBR should be done away with entirely. Imagine if heroes didn't lose a death armor on hitting deaths door, only when enduring a deathblow, but these death armor tokens did not regenerate after fights or even at the inn. This would completely solve the problem of being heavily punished because a hero decided to die on the first check, while still making enduring deathblows costly. Maybe some skills/items could also generate temporary death armor. Imagine if suffer had a longer cooldown but gave 1 temp death armor, which disappeared either after 3 turns or at the end of the fight.
Here's a balance that i thought for Librarian to make RW better against him. What if every time he resisted a Burn, he would get 1 Blind and then, at round start his Blinds convert to Daze ? He already has good SPD and 3 turns. And maybe, every time he destroys a book stack, instead of using BS Burning Bright, it would give him 2 Crit, 1 Dodge, 1 SPD to counteract his Dazes (Take Aim for Librarian).
Dude u drunk af
U already know that take aim js super strong buff that even worth to gv up one of your turn to set up, and ofc it will be a good idea to give it to boss with 3 turns a round
@@hudsonhartanto5993 2 Blinds converted to Dazes = Stun. This would help control and slow down Librarian. If you want we can remove the 2 Crits. We NEED RW to be usable in the Sprawl, it's non-negotiable.
my brother in christ this is your fifth comment on his video
Leper in general feels like a massive investment that isn't worth it, by having to risk weaken and blind tokens ruining set ups and his possible damage output, when Hellion and Grave robber can do the same with less risk (despite Grave robber needing Jester for Encore).
Hey shuff do you need the codes to get your income from the sponsor or is it just a nifty thing for viewers? I'd do it if you needed them for the contract (if you cant talk about it then nvm im just glad my favourite creator has a sponsor)
What if when a hero dies, the rest of the party gets some sort of temporary buff? Not thrilling tablet levels of buff, but maybe more hp, resists, or something else while carrying the hero's remains.
Regarding character death I'm getting the feeling that we're too boxed in on the thought of characters dying from DD1.
Cause in DD1 it made sense, we had a whole roster and everyone was a bit different, there was recovery methods during a run such as running away and going home early. But DD2 has none. In DD2 you have to win every single fight or lose the run. There's just no room there for losing a character.
So maybe they just shouldn't die, only get knocked down and come back if you win. Total party kill or nothing. I don't see any room for a middle ground in this game.
You should get a random hero in a assistance encounter.
nerf crush?
Unironically, yes.
Just came back to the game and it looks like the relationship system can dictate what skills you can put on your bar. Not sure if there is a way around it, but I really don't like that limit on gameplay.
It’s only negative relationships that you are required to have the skill!
At the moment there are 2 broken mechanics for the heroes : extra action (wich you can get through rare trinkets) and taunt (wich you can spam and trivialize every encounter). Don't believe me about Taunt ? Ask yourself how many enemies get Taunt (excluding Act3 Altar buff). The answer is 1 : the Proclaimer in rank 1 in The Body Of Work fight.
It was so hated on drummer they removed it lol
@@ShuffleFM But that just shows how broken it is. Like how tf does Retribution only have a 1-turn cooldown ? Taunt is the answer to most of the enemies mashes in the game.
@@ShuffleFM I'm not saying that every enemy needs a taunt but some do.
Like i was thinking about an ability for Footsoldier called Empty Bravado.
Empty Bravado : 1 use per battle, only 1 use per round (can't have multiple Footsoldiers using it in 1 round), inflict 1 stress, 1 Daze and 1 Combo on a random hero ; Footsoldier gains 2 Taunts, 2 Weak, 2 Vuln but also gains 2 Death Armor tokens.
My problem with the enemies is that their difficulty is artificial, it's stats and unfair stuns. Take those away and they are piss easy.
@@ShuffleFM Like here's a fun interaction for Knight. What if "Have at Thee !" gave Knight 2 Immobilize tokens and "En Garde !" converts Immobilize into Taunt ? We need for the enemies to be creative, more challenging without just being "Just give them Stun and 12 SPD lol".
Well actually now one can argue that GR is better than HWM if you build her right, so balance well done I guess? And it comes from a dude who completed grand slam and just today obliterated act 3 in literally 2 turns
I address this idea in the video :)
1:37 only 4000 😂😂😂
Let's hope they release some balance changes along with the DLC or I'm going to be upset.
Preach the word, shuffler!
Oh nice you got sponsored by the eugenics sim
I got 2nd highest comment, but same thing like number 1, R.I.P.
Bought both recently and finished DD1 recently. Now as I try DD2… I feel like dev has… applied lessons learn from DD1… in wrong ways.
Game feeling from “Hard challenge, but unless you got RNG, you got chance” into “Stupidly hard, very underpowered, and not feeling so fun, and need any RNG to win the run”
comment for the algorithm, this video needs to be watched and talked abt lol.
Howling End has been nerfed on almost if not every patch and is still busted
And i thought i was the only weirdo running wanderer flagellant.
If I can't use the Pascal's triangle I won't play your sponsored game
It really feels like they were so scared of the stun meta from dd1 they just made utility and CC awful and damage king which is really unfortunate.
i had 100 hours when i stopped playing. i couldnt win or do anything interesting without going the builds with the most damage. the only 'support' characters i brought were the characters which had good damage and support skills like plague doctor. Because of this the replayability was trash. i see there have been some occultist changes. Thats cool but I need the majority of the cast to have changes for it to be worth it for me to come back and try out the game.
I like red hook and i dont want to flame. that being said i cant lie and say i enjoy something i dont. darkest dungeon 2 is not fun for me. im hoping red hook can turn it around.
the comments in the video seemed to center around the balancing of heroes and i agree with the sentiment. but personally i hope by the time they balance the majority of the cast, they will have balanced some of the other aspects as well because when i played 1.0 a lot of the game systems felt half baked. for example, relationships seemed like a linear state which could be simplified into more relationship = more strong. no nuance or anything really. at that level, im not even sure why it exists. there wasnt even like a trade off between like do you want the relationship or do u want skill points or stats or something. kinda hope red hook doesnt see this cuz i feel kinda flamely but i hope dd2 becomes a good game.
I got trashed in DDCord because i suggested that Ordainement should give +1 SPD instead of +2 and that Hastened should give +2 SPD instead of +4. "Just use Wolfsblood, Stimulating, Bellow, Radiant Flame, Reanimated Rabbit,..." or, genius argument, "they are supposed and SHOULD outspeed you". Yes, i love being used as a punching bag without reacting, in a game where control options are bad, how did you know ?
I saw that. I suggested the same for hastened a while back and also got trashed in down votes lol. Would love to hear someone's defense of why your entire team deserves to go 2nd for an entire combat.
@@ShuffleFM It was kinda hilarious, cos all i suggested was for Ordainement to do JUST +1 SPD. Like, i don't think it would destroy the enemies and i genuinely think it would solve the issue with enemy SPD.
Also, i got hit with the sacrosanct "skill issue", "no point arguing with you, you're in denial" and "it's that shrimple". No joke, i expected someone to just tell me "L+ratio".
You know what guys? Screw it, I'd make Bounty Hunter a 12th playable character
I say make encore give the target weakness
No that would cut it's value way to hard suddenly it'd be useless on like a good amount of characters
Buff less used paths, add more enemies and biomes, expand the quirks to 5 per hero and add more and buff some enemies (seriously cultists and fanatics are easy game now).
DoT modification ideas:
- burn, chance to remove positive tokens is great, no notes
- bleed, due to the exhaution associated with bleeding out, debuff and stun resistance is reduced
- blight, due to the weakened immune system associated with being poisoned, healing received is reduced
I think these effects also increase the incentives to play heroes differently. Bleed is typically performed by offensive heroes like Jester, Highwayman, and Hellion, by increasing debuff vulnerability they are now encouraged to function as team players for their Occultist debuffer teammates or to use their own debuff skills more, like a Harvest > Fade Out loop instead of commiting to Encore support or Finale dps. With a bleed into boosted stun chance pistol loop (with combo support from a party member), maybe highwayman can click something other than Take Aim. Blight is less utility oriented (mainly hurting the player because players heal more than enemies) because the big blighters Flagellant and PD already have a ton of utility and are extremely powerful, they dont need the help or to be encouraged to play in a less DPS oriented style
I agree like why each hero have one op or just best path when each path can be op. Stop tweaking entire game for crapy paths just change paths.
Red hook employees after comming home after a loong day at work
Goes on the internet
100 reasons why dd2 is not going to ladt a year without
45 balance changes crusader abom houndmaster and the rest of the legacy charracters
Perfectly balanced paths 4 more acts and 2 other regions
Also who decided to have a base 25% health requirement for the defacto heal of Darkest Dungeon aka Divine Grace while also giving it a 2 turn cool down, like no one in this game goes to 25% HP, at that point they go stright to Death's Door and Die
Also daze feel like such a worthless debuff to stack, that you will never turn into stun without bending over backwards completely or if you come by the right items because daze doens't stay on enemies, even if they make them act last they still lost the token the second they get their turn which is usually because the character who will daze them a second time to make that daze a stun, and to use a move solely to set daze? Yh no thanks
Vestal's Paths aren't all good : Chaplain wants to be a defense Path but does a shittier job at it than Wanderer MAA (compare their Guard skills)
I don't necessarily think comparing heroes against each other like this is helpful, but if anything this shows how insane defender is, not how bad vestal is.
@@ShuffleFM If we're not gonna compare paths to the contemporaries they're competing with, what should we compare them to? The void? I agree that Vestal shouldn't be compared to MAA wholecloth, but if you compare Chaplain to any other tank (except Poet Leper I guess) then it makes where it falters very obvious & digestible.
@@ShuffleFM Her Guard skill is bad and for a defense Path, she can't generate Taunt (except, again, through a trinket)
#makebonkbetter
One thing which shocked me at first was no option for retreating from fights. That's one of the things that made DD1 that much more engaging. Despite all the failures and unlucky crits you still had an option to just run away and form a new plan. It wasn't necessarily a free retreat, considering you took a bunch of stress for that, which you may or may not have to heal in hamlet by paying gold to facilities. I think it would help some players if they had this option in DD2 too. Another cool idea which I got inspired from Heroes of Might and Magic series, is that you can surrender by paying certain amount of gold to retreat safely. So let's say you have spare gold or baubles and so you can bargain your way out, losing the option for more loot.
Totally forgot about retreating. Might be time to revisit that one.
in trying to avoid power/mobi/control creep, redhook decided to follow the mantra of nerfing the crap out of the fun stuff. Not sure why they have such a fear, perhaps it would be beneficial to understand their POV and see how to convince them
I wonder if you can get far by spamming just one main attacks on each character and nothing else since the game is so damage oriented
Slap a PD on there for healing then Take HWM, Hellion, Grave robber and just spam attacks you will chew through everything
I remember doing a mountain boss with just take aim and 1 attack on hwm lol. So yeah you probably can.
Comment
I think the biggest sin in DD2 is giving enemies the ability to have death's door.
Eugenics dating sim
23:54 so you spend 20 minutes talking about skill balance and then casually tells us that combat items throw your whole speech out of the window LMAO (btw I dont think so becouse you can`t find smoke granade in every run so CI is more like sidetool to strategy building)
When I was editing the idea popped into my head haha. Individually you don't always find the items, it's true, but some are really powerful and consistently attainable like healing salve.
@@ShuffleFM I don`t know, this is honestly hard to fix, maybe RH can differentiate battle Items the same as fraction trinkets(we can only obtain healing salve from foetor for example) and nerf them in turn because BA is easyer to find. Btw we already have this concept in Sluse
But why is smoke grenade better than 90% of the support abilities on heroes? I think that's a problem to think about on its own
Oh look, it only took the community a year to see the game has problems & Red hook are intentionally ignoring them.
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I don't agree with your damage teams vs support teams. In every game you can win by stacking only damage characters and you will probably lose by stacking tanks/supports. Make a team with janna/soraka/lulu/nami/sona and see how many games you win in league. And there full dmg teams are very common
Unless I misspoke that's what I said in the video lol. A non-damage team will struggle heavily. That shouldn't be the case. If I want my fights to take 14 rounds but my team is unkillable, I should be allowed to do that. In DD1 since stuns and dodge were easy to get, you could have high control teams with a lot of staying power.
@@ShuffleFM That's what you said in the video but that's not a DD2 problem because in every game you can get away with a full damage team but rarely with a full support team. In dd1 your pd, jester and vestal couldn't have 5 supporting skills in a single skillbar, you always had at least some offensive capability on every character. You didn't have paths reduce your dots or hp. Your teams were unkillable because afflictions didn't set you at low hp like dd2, healbot vestal could make every team unkillable and characters having 70% dodge permanently is so unbalanced that it isn't fair to be considered an argument.
@@aggelikicapsa6330 We already saw it work in dd1 though. Dodge and control teams, heavy healing, it worked. No reason to not try it here.
You didn't read my comment? If you're not getting into it, maybe you could write something small _here_ as to why?
The biggest thing for sure is making baseline wanderer more viable, and then paths are niche upgrades. And not virtuoso and sharpshot