Serbian, Croatian, Bosnian & Montenegrin are the Same Language!
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- Опубліковано 5 бер 2024
- Serbian, Croatian, Bosnian & Montenegrin are completely mutually intelligible, meaning that they are dialects of the same language. So, why are they considered separate languages? The reason is political.
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Just call it Yugoslavian.
The problem with that is that "Yugoslav" means "south Slav". Bulgarian and Slovenian are also southern Slavic languages but not mutually intelligible with Serbo-Croatian
@@RusselKabirTR But the Germanic people dont refer to themselves as German, not even the Germans, while the southern slavs do call themselves "yugo slavs"
@@RusselKabirTR well the thing with german is that it's only called german in english, in german it's deutsch and in serbocroatian it's called njemački, whereas germanic languages are called germanische sprachen and germanski jezici respectively. But where I personally, as a croat, cringe at the suggestion that the language should be called yugoslavian or whatever is that the word yugoslavia is irreversibly connotated with the former socialist federation of yugoslavia and I just dont think that that would be a good look for the language. Like, imagine calling german the nazi language or something
@@Meatlordmasteryugoslavia wasnt only socialist. It existed as a monarchy, socialist state and a republic
Bring a YUGO DUDE from.Bregenz or Berlin to Vienna, and ask them if it's easier to talk to other Yugo or just use their German
As a speaker a non mutually intelligible "dialect" of Arabic, I'm kind of jealous.
And you have every right to be. By the same token, we should be calling dialects of Arabic by names like Egyptian, Moroccan, or Lebanese.
@@omerciftci4673Panarabism has a lot to answer for, including millions of people who still can't access basic information in their own language although they can read and write because any written material requires years of schooling in a totally different language (MSA)
i don't know who decided to categorize all those "dialects" into the same language. I have a lot to say about that. learning the language was already hard, us foreigners were fooled into thinking that we can use it to converse with the native arabs. actually the whole world were fooled!!
@@kkay3701mostly because of panarabism as an extension of panislamism
Standard Arabic is no good?@@kkay3701
welcome to yugoslavia, where there is:
croats (catholic yugoslavs)
bosniaks (muslim yugoslavs)
serbs (orthodox yugoslavs)
slovenians
macedonians (mountain bulgarians)
montenegrins (sleepy yugoslavs)
kosovans (albanians)
and hungarians
"I don't wanna get involved"😂
Serb here. Shtokavian (štokavski) comes from word for "what" - što (in the west, in the eastern regions it's šta).
Two others are ČA-kavski and KAJ-kavski. Čakavski is spoken in Dalmatia and Istria by Croats, while Kajkavski by Croats in region around Zagreb. It's similar to Slovenian (where they say kaj for "what" as well).
Some say that the divide is simple - štokavski is (the) Serbian, kajkavski (the) Slovenian and čakavski pure Croatian. But that's highly controversial in Croatia.
… and doesn’t quite work, hence contraversial
Croatian here, everyone values the Štokavian and Čakavian dialect way more than the Kajkavian. I'm a speaker of the Kajkavian dialect and I've experienced being told speaking my dialect is "rude" or sounds like something rural farmers would speak, meanwhile the other two dialects are completely acceptable to speak on television and public media.
The only thing I learned while I very briefly studied english linguistics was that the only difference between what is a dialect and what is a language is that one has wtitten rules and we decide to say this one is the language and others are just a regional variant of it.
"A language is a dialect with an army and a navy." The line is always fuzzy, but in this case, I think the mutual intelligibility speaks for itself.
Well, that's not true. The written norm may refer to a variant of language, not a language itself. For example, US standard English is still a variant of the English language, however its written norm differs from the one in GB
Using the human rights thing on a balkan video is kinda messed up ahaha
So interesting!
And the funny thing is, some varieties of Serbo-Croatian like Kajkavian, Chakavian and Torlakian are more distinct from Bosnian, Montenegrin, Croatian and Serbian (which are all part of Shtokavian) but are considered as merely dialects instead of distinct languages.
Do yo want a war in comment section?
Languages got very close artificialy by using a dialect that was used by Croatians, Serbians, Montenegrins and Muslim Bosniaks in area called Herzegovina and not all Herzegovina, even so Croatian has bunch of its own words, in spoken language Ikavian (Cvit instead of Cvet or Bilo instead of Bijelo) is used, also North West Croatia is actually Kaikavian which is a variation closer to Slovenian than Serbian and Serbs can't understand it easy but it is a bit diluted now with Official Stokavian, also there is Chakavian which is spoken i Istria, on the Coast and on Islands and it is oldest Croatian language or dialect which was spoke even during Croatian Kingdom, it is heavily influnced by various Romance languages from Italy.
Also Croatia has tradition of written word that dates back from times before ottoman invasion all the way untill now, out of four largest Croatian cities, Capital Zagreb is actually a Kaikavian city, Rijeka and Split are Chakavian or at least they were like that during 20 century and before, now it is mixed and only Osijek is Stokavian Ijekavian, fact that we understand each other in South Slavic area is because for decades we did learned same variation of language and because standards are close but they were made close togethet by politics and were a lot different trough history, just watch two clips from Croatian tv shows Velo Misto and Gruntovcani, both are from Croatia and one is from area North east of Zagreb near Drava river and other is from Split and than tell that it is same as Serbian, while not a standard language both are Croatian, it is a bit more complex to be simplified by people who dont know the whole story, btw there is also Serbian Torlakian which is closer to Bulgarian than to Croatian.
Politics, but also because Serbians remained Orthodox and the others did not.
Bosnians in particular loved the tax cuts from the Ottomans more than the Kingdom of God.
Well, Montenegrin politicians just want to have their own stuff, there is no cultural justification for Serbia and Montenegro being separate countries.
Mi bosanci smo samo praktični
The differences among modern standard Croatian, Serbian, Montenegrin and Bosnian are on the level of dialectals. There are much greater differences between European Spanish and any Latin American Spanish, or between British and American English.
Back in Yugoslavia we used to learn at school all the vocabularies pertaining to each and they were called "western variant" and "eastern variant", just like in English you would have words truck and lorry, that's the difference we are talking about. Plus the most obvious is the variation of "ije/je" and "e" in certain words that possess the extinct old slavic yat. Apart from minor sencence structure differences, that's basically all there is. Definitely one, but polycentric language, according to linguistics. When the politics takes priority seat over science, they are called different languages.
I completely agree
I used to work with a load of people from what was Yugoslavia when they were growing up there. Someone would come over to chat ("Blah blah Thomas The Tank Engine blah blah") about, say, borrowing a kids book. And I would go, so, you are speaking Serbian to him? Yes. And he is replying in Croatian? Also yes. If you looked at the language #defines for Microsoft language code definitions, Bosnian was defined to be... One of the others (Serbian possibly). The same number. But a horrific war will do that...
So which dialect should one learn? Like which sounds better or is easier etc
Just the fact that you recommended Štokavski as a substitute shows you don’t know enough about this topic to have a say in it. It’s not just politics. It’s history, culture, linguistic development (Serbian and Croatian separated in development a long time ago and went in completely different directions) and also it’s not true that they are completely mutually intelligible. Sure, some Serbian dialects are mutually intelligible with some Croatian and Bosnian dialects but a lot of them aren’t. The difference between Dalmatian Croatian (with a lot of Italian and some Austro-Hungarian influence during development) and Southern Serbian (with a lot of Turkish influence during development) is HUGE. Also as for the ethnic and cultural thing. I can’t imagine Bosnians enjoying their language being referred to as Serbian or Serbo-Croatian in their own country and their own culture. It makes it seem like the relation is equivalent to England and America which it’s not. Bosnia isn’t like a country that developed by separating off from Serbia or Croatia, they are their own people with their own history and culture. The Balkan/Southern Slavic countries were never colonialist (too busy being colonized) so don’t push that mentality on either one of us.
Because it's one language with it's roots in Vinchan letters - 9000 years old😊
Language distance score 35 is pretty high for "identical" language. Scandinavian languages have lower distances
I am a bit confused about the linguistic terminology he uses. I am not sure if it makes clear what is the difference between language and dialect. He speaks of the dialects of the English language. What are the dialects of the English language? A language has variations. For example, Spanish is just a language spoken in 20 countries, so we have the Cuban, Argentinian, Chilean, etc variations. Still, the language is the same, whereas a dialect sometimes can be just spoken, and not only that, it can be highly different among other dialects that have in common the same linguistic root. Italian is a valid example of this. You have Italian as a language, and then all the other dialects spoken in the peninsula; however, they are not variations of dialects of the Italian language. That said, I can be very wrong about my perspective, so if I am wrong, I would like to be corrected.
You're right, but things are also muddled by politics! The difference between a dialect and a language isn't clear--and it really depends on the politics/social norms of the country/region where they are spoken. For example, Mandarin and Cantonese are supposed "dialects" of the Chinese language according to the Chinese government, but they are very different and more like completely separate languages. In terms of linguistics, though, we tend to say that two "varieties" are only dialects of one another if they are mutually intelligible (ie. speakers of one "variety" can understand the other). In the case of English, we know that Canadians, Americans, and Australians all speak dialects of English because they can understand one another (and most varieties of English from the UK) without much trouble. However, we know that English and Spanish are not dialects of one another because speakers of one cannot understand the other at all (unless they've studied the other language). In the case of Croatian, Serbian, Montenegrin, and Bosnian, these are dialects on a linguistic level due to high levels of mutual intelligibility, even if their respective governments call them separate languages. I hope that helps!
Dobra!
shtokavian is an extremely cool name for a language. does it mean anything or does it just sound awesome?
As far as I understand, "Shtokavian" is the version of Serbo-Croatian that all the standard languages are based on.
Basically, in Serbo-Croatian, there are multiple ways of referring to the word "what". Shtokavian is the most widespread one, and is named like that because officially the word we use for "what" is "šta" in Bosnia, Serbia and Montenegro, and "što" in parts of Croatia. I say officially because a lot of Croats actually use "šta" when talking in everyday life, but "što" in more formal settings".
Additionally, there is chakavian in the coastal area and Istria, where people say "ča", but there are many more ways to say the word "what", like "co", "ca" etc... Depending on the specific dialect.
Lastly, there is kaikavian, where the word is "kaj" and is spoken mainly around the area of Zagreb, between Slavonia and Dalmatia/Istria. Again, there are many ways of saying "what" depending on the dialect.
There is also another way of classifying dialects. In old slavic, there was the old letter "jat" that was dropped from these languages, and evolved into different sounds, depending on the area.
Firstly, in Bosnia, most of Croatia and Montenegro, the letter jat turned into "ije", where they speak "ijekavski" (ijekavian).
Secondly, in Serbia and parts of Bosnia and Montenegro, it turned into "e", so they speak "ekavski"
Lastly, in the Croatian coastal areas, it evolved into "i", hence they speak "ikavski.
So you have words that you can pronounce 3 different ways depending where you're from. For example, the word "river" can be rijeka/reka/rika, "star" can be zvijezda/zvezda/zvizda, "arrow" is strijela/strela/strila etc...
This can get much more complicated, for example there are Croats around Istria that speak some type ekavski which evolved independently from the Serbian one (and the stress is different), or the mixed ekavski-ikavski in Slavonia.
So basically, back to the point, the author says that it should be named "shtokavian" because it's the most widespread variety across all of ex-Yu, and because it's the one every standard language is based on. It's also increasingly more common in parts of Croatia where it's not originally used, especially by young people. By the way, if you want to understand the intellegibility of the languages, me as a person from Zagreb (although my family comes originally from Bosnia, Banja Luka), I can understand Serbian, Bosnian and Montenegrin better (something like 99%, the 1% left I understand from context) than some dialects from Croatia. For me, kajkavski sound like Slovenian and čakavski is its own thing.
If you want my opinion, čakavski and štokavski are the original dialects of Croatian language, and kajkavski is much more Slovenian. There are some people that will say only čakavski is, but I don't believe it as you can find štokavski in old Croatian writings.
@@zer-atop3032one huge problem is that literally no one uses the standard language until a camera is put in their head. No one speaks nearly close to the standard which is about croatia. In central croatia it is half standardised in cities but outside of cities it's kajkavian. That's why you shouldn't try to unite countries that are not the same and shouldn't've been
No, the language is just Serbo-Croatian, Croatians, Serbians and Bosnians only speak Serbo-Croatian, or some propose calling it Yugoslavian, but for now Serbo-Croatian is that. When introducing languages, I always just call this Serbo-Croatian.
Austrians speak German, yet it's also its own nation too with its own history. Language does not equal country necessarily.
How about south slavic
Slovenian, Macedonian and Bulgarian are also considered south slavic...😅
THEY'RE DIALECTS, NOT LANGUAGES. #PoliticsIsALie
Yugoslavian?
Yes.
Exactly like Persian, Tajik and Dari.
Calling it shtokavian would be an insult to people of Croatia who speak in a dialect
These languages are more mulltally integbille than my albanian dialect is to standard albanian.
Basically the same. Like Bulgarian and Macedonian. Or Catalan and Valencian.
*Farsi and Dari
Macedonian and Bulgarian are still much more different than Serbian, Croatian and Bosnian could ever be. Though Macedonian is also quite close to Bulgarian and also quite close to Serbo-Croatian at the same time. If it weren't for the large amount of Serbo-Croatian vocabulary it has in its standard language, it'd only ever be a Bulgarian dialect when examined and spoken. But now it's quite similar to both Serbo-Croatian and also Bulgarian it'd seem.
That's just my observation, I could be wrong on how Macedonian as a language is, but I think I'm fairly right in thinking of it as an in-between kind of language... (or form of speech??)
Propaganda and brainwashing did their job mate that's why@@lerapol
As a Bosnian I can tell you that these languages are NOT almost mutally intelligible. When you say the word: REKA to a small child in Bosnia, it will not know what it is, hence it is a servian word. There are a lot of diffeneces and by time when you learn all of the differences then you are able to understand servs and Croatians.
Aj ne seri druže, izmišljaš gluposti. Eto ti si pametniji od lingvističkog konsenzusa prema kojem BHSM jezik je jedan isti jezik sa nebitnim razlikama. U samoj Bosni i Hercegovnini postoje regionalne razlike u izgovoru, tako da možeš primijenit svoju logiku i tu.
This is like saying "AMERICAN AND BRITISH ARE NOT MUTUALLY INTELLIGEBLE! BECAUSE WHEN YOU SAY PETROL TO A YOUNG AMERICAN BOY, HE WONT UNDERSTAND YOU!"
@@tsoii obviously you do not speak any of the aforementioned languages.
@@myvideouploadingI do not need to, not to criticize your braindead reasoning as to why they are different languages. Your entire example was constructed on "GurHur look Bosnian kids wouldnt understand this single serbian word, therefor they are seperate languages!" I also dont need to speak any of them to listen to official linguists who all agree that they are in fact the same language. I also speak Swedish, which is WAY more different from Norwegian and Danish than Serbian is to Croatian and Bosnian, yet most professional linguists even consider Swedish Norwegian and Danish to be the same language.
@@tsoii your thinking is really shallow. Do you know that official language of Croatia and Serbia now is the adapted Bosnian language. 1850 linguist from Sebia and Croatia met and make the deal that the future standard language (unifying language) of the future country called Yugoslavia was going to be Bosnian language. If we spoke the same language 1850 why they needed to meet and to sort it out. Even though servs now use adapted Bosnian language as their own and call it servian language it is much different in comparison to servian langauge spoken in servia just 150 years ago. Not to mention Croatia where old Croatian is not spoken by anyone any more. Their official language is adapted Bosnian langauge which they call it Croatian language. And beside all of that there are many words which are used by one and not by the rest. And also worth mentioning: before Shakespeare ordinary Englishman could easly understand an ordinary German guy. Languages got separated. And so our langauges here are again going in their own ways. There are a lot of people here in the region which do not want the language which they speak to be called in an unifying manner. Therefore respect the people's choice!
Ha, using the human rights charter for this countries language comparison 😅
😬
Shtokavian is Serbian lol.
Wow, you watched the video??
It's the base for standard croatian
Sve je srpsko, svi smo Srbi, pa čak i bog je Srbin