thejobo85 That’s the frustration with me. TFA was a decent setup, even as a rehash of ANH, but TLJ literally trashed everything just because Rian Johnson could. It’s all incredibly stupid and lazy how all of this has gone down.
Holdo shouldn't have thought Poe was the leak. She should have thought FINN (ya know, the ex storm trooper that defected not 3 days ago) was the leak and that maybe Poe was accidentally feeding him information.
Necromancer4267 If they had it where she tried to lock up Finn for that reason, but he and Poe escape to find help or something similar, that would’ve been infinitely more interesting.
I don't think she thought Poe was the leak that was just a dumb excuse. She might have thought someone under his command was though and that he couldn't keep a secret - and in a way she was right as his actions to undermine her actually lead to the ships being spotted and them all killed - but lets be honest they'd have just sent out probe droids and found them all inside 2 days anyway. So everyone still would have died the only way they could have survived is if the 1st Order thought they were all dead.
The sad part is he has a good backstory too. Born and raised on Yavin IV by former Rebels. Luke brought a tree from the Jedi Temple to his family's home on Yavin IV for them to guard it. There's a lot to work with. His parents have developed backstories too. Its sad its not used.
Considering that the movie has established in one scene that Finn and Poe somehow forgot about flying troopers, despite coming across them in a previous comic, it’s clear Abrams and Kennedy don’t give a rat’s ass about their own continuity.
@@thorskywalker, Poe is the perfect candidate to be the secret Skywalker. For ep9 they consulted George Lucas how to finish the last 1/3 of the movie (because the test screening showed everybody hated their first version). Lucas introduced a secret Skywalker and his version was liked by everybody. That would be a perfect subversion of expectations, because there are actual hints. As you pointed out, being a good pilot runs in the Skywalker family.
I thought he was going to be the best character after the intro to FA and blowing up the base (like Luke did). Alas no. He is going to be treated like crap too just like Luke, Finn, 3PO, Han, Leia, and Kylo Ren. They all end up looking like idiots and none of them were.
@@nolimitsamputee5219 , Chewbacca, Leia, C-3PO, R2-D2, Finn, and Rose could all be removed from TLJ and the story wouldn't change. That tells us something, lol.
He actually saved everybody by blowing up that dreadnought. If they had made a jump into hyperspace before taking out the dreadnought, the First Order would have tracked them and have obliterated the entire resistance fleet. So Holdo and Leia are giving him shit when in fact he saved their lives.
When Rian Johnson wrote TLJ I’m pretty sure that he took the list of names from TFA and started writing his story with no regard for who the characters were or what happened to them in the first film. In addition to the serious change in Poe, Captain Phasma who I was among the millions who assumed had died in the trash compactor when Star Killer Base was destroyed (seriously, how did she survive?) showed up in TLJ for a second showdown with Finn. Johnson seems to have had no understanding nor concern for what Abrams had done in the first film and went about telling his own terrible story. I can’t even call TLJ bad fan fiction because I don’t believe that Johnson is a fan and his story was so bad that it was an insult to true fan fiction written by actual fans.
the first scene sums it up, he created while filming, and seriously if Ryan Johnson makes a living being like that mb i should be a director like Spielberg ...
Well said. Rian Johnson also made JJ change his screenplay because he just had to have his way. JJ was planning to have giant boulders floating around Luke to show what a powerful Jedi he had become. Luke also originally knew who Rey was. But his story was thrown away because Rian just had to have his way. Sad.
JJ also failed to write good character development and dialogue for almost every character. Rian fucked up but literally everyone involved in writing Disney Star Wars has fucked up.
Here’s one thing I know about Poe: he has clearly been making the right decision, all the way. 1. If he didn’t destroy that Dreadnaught, it would have followed the Resistance through hyperspace and destroyed them. 2. He was a LEADER for people who also felt that Holdo was not up to the task, as she seemingly had NO PLAN! Here were his only mistakes: 1. Not did not immediately put Holdo & her crew in a jail cell, or stun them. Instead he put them right next to a loose exhaust pipe. 2. Not going with Finn/Rose on the journey to Canto Bight. Make Rose stay behind! He leads by example and gets down in the trenches and crossfire WITH the people he leads. And he’s willing to be shot and branded a traitor if it means ensuring the survival of his crew. He may be my favorite SEQUEL TRILOGY character.
The reason that Poe did not go with Finn was because Rian thought two dudes who got along would make for a boring adventure: www.reddit.com/r/saltierthancrait/comments/bcwged/rian_johnson_claimed_having_poe_and_finn_together/
the strangest thing, is that when poee disobeyed orders, and atacked that dreadnaut, he acctuly achieved a great military victory... he managed to destroy a very deadly enemy vessel with 200.000 enemies inside, and only lost a few ships (bad and slow ships i might add, comapred to y-wings those ships were horrible) and what? 60 soldiers tops? in that regard, any general would give him a medal, but leia only gives him a slap... and at the end... he does exactly what hee is not supose to do, that is "turning back" which is ridiculous, because if they did not destroyed that "mini death star thingy" the door would be gone and they would be dead... so, turning back, was realy NOT the right thing to do... so his arc, is acctuly a descent... he was right at the beggining, and wrong at the end...
The problem with that analysis is scale. The First Order effectively has infinite troops and ships, while the Resistance is down to a couple dozen ships, including fighters, and maybe a thousand people total. If losing Starkiller Base didn't bother them, why would losing a dreadnaught? Their remaining fleet is still strong enough to destroy the Resistance fleet many times over.
@@hemtt543 did you hear the part where i said that those bombers they used were garbage? XD y-wings were way more effective than those bombers, so honestly, they didnt need that slow and useless ships, than you have a couple of x-wing and a-wings lost, but still, in any shape or form man, if you managed to kill 200.000 and loose only 60 you're good... trust me... as for funding, i can garantee you, this is not the biggest problem of the resistence, lando is pretty much a rich guy, he can pay for way more x-wings... personel? well, they had way more before of holdo stupid plan, and would have way less if poe had not destroyed that dreadnaut.
@@hemtt543 If that dreadnaught was in the space chase the shields would have been down much faster and the Resistance would be Rey, Chewie, Finn, and Rose.
I really hoped that Poe could be one of the best characters of the sequels, alongside Finn and Kylo Ren. My hopes for these three characters were crushed. Poe was really lackluster in personality, personal story and motivations. What Rian Johnson did with Poe in The Last Jedi is almost criminal. Poe was treated like trash by Holdo and Leia just to prove Holdo's point (which was a suicidal mission as well).
@@gplgs4640 not only Rian Johnson threw out of the window J.J.s plans for the sequel, he made the worst sequel possible for a Star Wars movie. Yeah, J.J. isn't a good storyteller or a good director, but his story might had some kind of background for Snoke, Rey and Luke.
@@eldenvedetta635 yeah, that's why I've said it was a suicidal mission as well. Holdo's plan was as dumb or even worse compared to Poe's plan. It's sad that The Last Jedi used one of the main characters just to pander to wokeness. Now we have to deal with those freaks who think they are "ThE ReSIstAnCe" or "ThE ReBeLS" and cry on every single aspect of The Mandalorian.
@@DinDjarr1 Very true friend, but the problem is Disney is still either too ignorant to understand, or too incompetent to care, that even though SJW's cry and whine and scream, they DO NOT BUY ANYTHING! There was PLENTY of Rose Tico merchandise before, and NO ONE BOUGHT IT, but now that there is none, the SJW's have cried and whined "WHERE'S ROSE? They took her out cuz she's a woman of COLOR!" So they complain when there is no merch of a character, but didn't buy any when there was, literal factual 100% provable evidence that SJW's do NOT buy merch, EVEN WHEN they complain, so they should literally just NOT be listened to, and MAYBE Disney is starting to understand that. If you didn't know they're apparently going to start releasing prequel and original trilogy toys now because they realize Disney Crap Characters don't sell, but the problem is long time fans like me don't even care to buy characters we love like Plo Koon and Kit Fisto because why would I want Disney, the company who is responsible for The Last Jedi, to make money? I would rather buy second-hand stuff online and from thrift stores. And I think a lot of fans share the sentiment of not wanting Disney to make money.
@@DinDjarr1 But JJ didn't actually have anything planned, he's known for not being able to finish series that he works on and what he wrote for TFA was paper thin and bad anyway. Not excusing Rian but Star Wars fans need to wake up and realize that Disney has been writing some awful shit all along.
Writers: time to write [insert character name]'s backstory Disney: NO DONT! writers: why not? Disney: We'll create questions behind these guys and sell them the answers as comics and books!
I can't wait for this movie to come out...so I can start outlining a massive fix-it fanfic rewriting the whole sequel trilogy so it has a consistent plot and some character development 😂
@Char Aznable Not saying anyone should but you know if you just happen to pay for CATS and then walk into Rise of Skywalker I don't think anyone will notice.
Unless they played the "secret imperial spy within the New Republic" plotline which I thought could be pretty cool and would be a little bit meta too, as Holdo can represent all the Liberalist ideals and her secretly being evil could be shown as having cons as well as pros (Di$ney will never actually do this though :c)
@@Jooglesberry I agree as Finn was a pretty interesting character. My pick was General Hux. I felt that he had a chip on his shoulder and was out to screw up Kylo, but Domhnall didn't overdo the acting.
When I saw him in action I really like him. He's like the closest thing to an Ace Combat protagonist we ever gonna get in movies. It's sad that Disney ruined him.
If you can stand anime (with a dirty weeb name like that of course you do) we at least have Macross and Gundam pilots to dazzle us with their Itano circus dodging antics.
A GREAT ADENDUM to this video: if you go back to the comics again, right before The Last Jedi, Poe learns the EXACT SAME LESSON he learns in The Last Jedi when he gets demoted. Like literally the exact same thing happens. Okay I paused you to contribute that, finishing now.
@@grodius good thing Wedge had a whole series of books in the EU to make up for that. Funny how he can have less screen time than Poe, and yet be a more fleshed out, more loved character. If you ask me, should've just put Wedge in instead of Poe. Edit: to finish properly because my phone freaked out
As others have said, Poe Dameron is my favorite Sequel character. If I were to describe him, he's a badass pilot who's brave, heroic, funny, and has charisma in spades. Most of this is due to Oscar Isaac's acting ability. I do think Last Jedi utterly mishandles him (big surprise), but one thing I find ironic is that Rian Johnson message largely failed in my opinion. If Holdo was supposed to be "cool, calm, and collected" while Poe was supposed to be "reckless and out of control" that's not the impression I got when I watched Last Jedi. Instead it looked like Holdo was an idiot (I'm serious, she must have been a diversity hire) and Poe looked like he was be proactive. Sure, his plan was desperate and unlikely to work, but his commander didn't give him any orders. In fact, the first time I watched Last Jedi, when Holdo tells Poe, "Sit tight and follow my orders" my exact reaction was, "Lady, he just asked for his orders and you told him nothing." A video by Boofire1191 called "Poe Dameron did nothing wrong" sums up my feelings.
Exactly. Same feeling as you. While it's obvious that RJ was going for the "Poe is a toxic male" approach, he failed utterly, as for me Poe was RIGHT from beginning to end.
Poe: Not used enough in The Force Awakens. Then pissed all over by the "Strong WAMEN" of The Last Jedi....who knows that's coming for him in Rise of Skywalker....probably get shot by Rose for being too good a pilot.
@@darko-man8549 Finn was the only original Disney character in this crap trilogy that was actually interesting, but that interest just turned into him just being a joke because his entire backstory was a joke. The whole stormtrooper defector thing was really cool, until you learn how stupid and little sense the First Order makes, it also just makes Finn laughable at no fault of his own. Pretty sad.
My fix for Poe: His parents were killed by the nascent First Order, and their deaths were the first warning Leia had about it. She honored the sacrifice of her friends by taking in their young child, raising him alongside her own son, Ben. The two grew up together, but Poe was often mistaken for the son of Han and Leia, as he was the handsome, charismatic one, who even impressed Han with his daring flying skills, a trait Ben lacked (until he learned to compensate with the Force); this was one of the things that drove Ben deeper into resentment and was one of the hooks Snoke used to turn him. Afterwards, Poe is especially driven to fight the FO, both because it's right AND because they killed his parents, and in addition, has a personal score to settle with Kylo Ren, for tearing apart the family that took him in and hurting the woman who is a second mother to him. This would lead to some awesome dogfighting scenes with an Enemy Ace, which is something SW is strangely lacking in... There. Fixed Poe, with Kylo Ren thrown in as a bonus!
Exactly. I mean they don't have any story. You have come up with something that these mindless morons didn't bother to do. Furthermore, they should have alluded to or explained who the hell the First Order and Snoke (awful name) are as well. Or frankly just used George Lucas' actual sequel scripts to begin with.
Poe was my most anticipated character in TFA, sad to see his character reduced to near nonexistence. Oscar Isaac really makes do with what he is given, which sadly isn't much but if it wasn't for him I probably wouldn't even remember the character's name.
Poe Dameron represents these three films perfectly. He’s a “what could have been”, he is, “potentially, a great character” who was written two different ways to serve two different versions of Star Wars and one common SJW narrative.
Damn they really did mess up Poes character too. Anyone else love the beginning of TFA, when Fin and Poe are in the tie fighter? That was probably the best scene in the sequel trilogy hands down.
That scene is so damn good. Not gonna lie, probably one of the most fun SW scenes in the past 2 decades or so. The two actors have great chemistry, and it was just so heartening to watch. But sadly, that just adds to the overall tragedy of this trilogy.
@@awakenow7147 idk about the best scene since the past 2 decades but it definitely beats the entirety of Rian Johnsons shitty abomination of a film lol
I don't agree with that though. It comes across as ridiculous. The trooper who hesitates to kill, who witnesses his friend get killed...is escaping with the man who killed his friend AND gleefully shooting at his former comrades and killing them without a second's hesitation or remorse. To add insult to injury, the "DID YOU SEE THAT, DID YOU SEE THAT" comes across as Earth like slang and unbefitting of the galaxy far far away. TFA started this entire mess where there is no logic, no story and no inspiring characters. They should have used George Lucas' actual scripts to begin with. Compare that scene to the comradeship of Han, Luke and Leia in the coincidentally (I am sure pure coincidence) similar scene in ANH with the Falcon escaping the Death Star. Or to the scene of Anakin and Obi Wan chasing the villain on Coruscant in AOTC, or Obi Wan and Anakin in the opening of ROTS. There is no comparison frankly. TFA and TLJ are just mindless action films with no substance.
@@darkjediknight2923 I can see that, it was kinda silly, but I'm just talking about the chemistry between them when they're in the tie fighter. I think the main problem with the sequel trilogy is how Disney handled everything. They brought on Terrible writers and directors, none of them are die hard starwars fans like Dave feloni. I'm starting to think they only chose JJ Abrams bc he directed the new Star trek films.
@@nikbrady14 Indeed. I mean I would say Gareth Edwards did a good job with Rogue One - since he told a story and actually went to George Lucas for advice. Feloni has a habit of doing silly things (like the clone chips) that can contradict the films though. But JJ made a complete mess of Episode 7 which ruined everything. The first mistake was throwing out George Lucas' actual sequel scripts. This is NOT what the CREATOR of Star Wars wanted to tell us period. Ergo it isn't the sequel trilogy, but mere fan fiction. I hesitate to even call it fan fiction, since no true fan would tell such a meaningless and inexplicable story that didn't make any sense or explain a single thing. Episode 7 doesn't feel like an Episode SEVEN. It feels like a random Episode 1 of a totally separate story that just happens to have some of the original cast in twisted versions of themselves on screen. As far as the TIE fighter scene goes, to me too much of the dialogue (especially Finn and Rey) is far too much Earth slang and not befitting of the Star Wars galaxy. It loses immersion and there is simply no story or context for any of this action to fit into. Compare that to the dialogue of the ESB Asteroid chase scene, or the Coruscant chase in AOTC. George wanted to give us Jedi students (including one called Kira) and proper story. I would say that would have been infinitely better than what we got instead.
There’s a book called Before the Awakening that gives backstory to Finn, Poe, and Rey. It’s actually pretty good; all of them get more development in their own short story than both movies so far. Yes, even Rey.
LC Kaboom Anyone who's read that book has to be disappointed with Finn’s subsequent portrayal and arc. He's supposed to be really competent, a leader, brave, fearless. He was turned into a sidekick.
People like you obviously don’t pay much attention to characters at all. Rey and Finn has a whole lot of character development in the 2 movies. And Poe had a lot of character development in The Last Jedi.
Enlighten us, please. What has Finn's arc been, thus far? Here's my take, based on Before the Awakening and the subsequent movies thus far. He starts off as a stormtrooper that was a child soldier stripped of his identity. Has no idea who he is, even where he's from or who his parents are. Nevertheless, he's become a fully competent soldier, in the top 1% of his cadre. Phasma's favourite. He has leadership qualities and is a strong and competent soldier. He also at times puts his comrades before himself, even when he's not supposed to. He realises something is wrong or that he's different when he witnesses the FO massacre a bunch of workers/slaves on some mining planet. He refuses to join in. Then, on his first mission, a member of his fireteam and close friend gets killed (by Poe btw) during the FO raid on the village. He freezes up and realises this isn't what he's supposed to be doing. The programming has broken, somehow, for a reason, we haven't been privy to. He then freezes up again when asked to slaughter the villagers. It's now that he decides he wants out. The next thing he does is free the guy who killed his best friend who caused his own reassessment, and then proceeds to kill a few more of his friends/comrades. Again, this was a kid who grew with these other kids and was trained to be a unit. This is the first issue I have with the Finn arc. Instead of maybe trying to convince others who also might have doubts about the FO, to revolt or something, he just gets all selfish and wants to escape with a resistance pilot even though it means he'd kill his brothers in the process. FFwd to Jakku, he meets Rey and ends up on the falcon etc. Seems to fall for her in some way, either completely smitten or just felt a kind of platonic magnetism, he has an instant connection. Hits Takudana and wants to escape with her - but she refuses. Then she gets taken, and all he can think of is her. His selfishness for self-preservation suddenly disappears and he bravely runs towards ren's ship to try and stop her from being taken on board but fails. His mission then until the end of TFA is to save Rey and goes to SKB to do so, risking his life. He risks his life to save her from Ren, and ends up in a coma with a slashed spine for.... a day? Two days? Not sure. But not long. He wakes up and the first word is 'Rey'. She's all that's on his mind. His reason for escaping is for her. Not for himself. However, he's stopped by Rose cos she thinks he's a selfish traitor? Then he's jettisoned onto some side mission to canto bite, which basically goes nowhere fast. We can assume he's only doing this so he can prevent Rey from being captured or killed if she comes back to the Raddus, this is clear from him picking up Leia's beacon and realising rey would be in danger. Nothing else tells us that he's down for the resistance at all. BTW, in the novel, Rose roasts him a few times for various things and he nearly crashes the shuttle on the beach by clumsily hitting some switch. So much for the competent guy from the lead-up book. Anyway, it doesn't work out and we FFwd to him killing Phasma and going to crait. Again he's berated by Rose for using the wrong lever or something on the speeder things when attacking the ATATs, then decides that he'll do kamikaze as there's no way to stop the death star tech thing. Does he do this for the resistance purely or again, cos he knows Rey will possibly turn up and be killed? We don't know, but considering everything else, it's probably for Rey. Trying to save someone he loves; the only person he's probably ever loved. Again, his plan is thwarted by rose, who tells him not to sacrifice himself by killing who he hates but saving who he loves, which is what he was... doing anyway? Sigh... Even though both Rose's sister and Holdo did the same damn thing and were no doubt praised for it? In the end, his arc is that he went from being fearless and brave to being scared and wanting to run, to being selfless for Rey to being self-sacrificing for Rey, to being berated for the latter.
@@S2GUnit Exactly. The trooper who hesitates to kill, who witnesses his friend get killed... proceeds to escape with the very man who killed his friend, whilst gleefully blasting his former comrades into oblivion with a relish, shouting "Did you see that! DID YOU SEE THAT!" over and over again. It's awful storytelling. There is no story in TFA which ruined everything to begin with even before the utter abysmal disaster of TLJ.
Poe Dameron is actually my favorite of the new characters; in fact, that he was never intended to be a major character actually makes him more interesting to me. This basically "throw-away" character, as you put it, goes on to do something great, is shown to have heroic qualities, and seems like an excellent leader. He had a few things to learn, still, but that's part of his character growth. Why did Rian Johnson feel the need to DEGRADE parts of his character growth that had already been accomplished? He made Poe seem like more of a liability to the resistance than the heroic gem he was shown to be in The Force Awakens. I would have played Poe's character better than Rian Johnson did, but by "play" here, I mean something like a playing card or chess piece; Oscar Isaac did a great job of playing him in the acting sense of the word. But just as I've summed up before as my impression of The Last Jedi, I liked the cinematography and the acting was excellent, but no amount of good acting can fix a poorly written story. I feel so bad about what was done to Poe's character; Luke Skywalker wasn't the only character that Rian Johnson seems to want to ruin.
Han, Luke and Leia had simple but traceable and logical arcs. Luke's Arc is the whole reason to tell the story, basically. And I don't think they have any clue what story they're trying to tell with the sequel Trilogy, only the "message" they think they're conveying - "belonging", according to the latest toy commercial, and "inclusion" according to most mini-interviews by any of the stars, lately. The filmmakers don't know what the story is either, because they never bothered to clearly craft one. Hey, does anyone remember when we used to posit wild theories based on what we thought were clues and the intense interest in where the story and characters could go? Those were the good ol' days.
@@thorskywalker if the leaks are even 10% true probably not a good thing lol. I'm trying to be optimistic though. It's Christmas. Maybe it will be a Christmas miracle.
Thor Skywalker Christ alive... they just keep scraping the nostalgia barrel. Let’s face facts... A) this trilogy didn’t need to happen B) I’d rather remember the original characters as they were rather than get them to reprise their roles and try and shoehorn them in C) it’s a very cynical and disrespectful move by Disney to get older people to go and see aforementioned beloved characters as OAP’s just to sell movie tickets. And finally D) it’s just incredibly sad. There is potential there. We’ve had flashes of it. Rogue One and The Mandalorian. But the fact that the “headliner” is the sequel trilogy is just sad. And the saddest part of it all is that we can’t unsee it.
He didn't make a huge mistake in the beginning of the film. if he hadn't taken out the dreadnought, when the first order followed them through hyperspace it would have destroyed the rest of the rebellion easily. The only reason they survived as long as they did was because of what he did. Johnson was just too stupid to pay attention to his own storyline.
I will say i liked Rey and Finn in 7 and liked Poe but hoped we get more of him for 8, now it seems Poe is the more interesting character with a full backstory, skilled at what he does best, and is slowly becoming our leader in this battle. While i don't expect much more from him, I hope he has a few more shining moments in the finales (minus the jet trooper joke)
While I do admire your attempt to derive some meaning or depth with respect to Poe as a character, the truth is, Rian Johnson's screenplay is so illogical, poorly crafted and awkwardly paced that NONE of the character arcs or plot lines make any sense. In truth, he so lost track of his own plot and any semblance of reasonable character development, that his screenplay becomes completely unrecoverable in the first few minutes. Don't believe me? Here are just a few examples: 1. A linear, slow speed chase in multi-dimensional space...ummm.... what? 2. Fuel issues that similarly impact EVERY ship in the resistance fleet - regardless of type, design, mass or purpose? 3. A one-time janitor and an inexperienced, low-level tech not only identify the secret / previously unknown ability of the enemy to track them, but also manage to figure out not only HOW it is being done and WHERE it is being done but also come up with a plan to disable it within just a couple of minutes? 4. A "leader" who not only violates every tenant of effective leadership by not sharing critical information with her subordinates, but who then proceeds to isolate and punish the "hero" of the Battle of Starkiller Base - and the guy responsible for eliminating the "fleet killing" threat to the resistance "fleet" that no one else (including the First Order... who inexplicably decide to use the guns of the "fleet killing" Dreadnought on the Resistance planetside bases rather than on the large Resistance Fleet idly sitting in space waiting for everyone to come up from the planet. See... though not a military genius or anything, if the FO had targeted those ships first the entire Resistance would have been trapped on the planet, right?) seems to remember. Far from being "hot-headed" or grossly "insensitive" to the value of his subordinates, it seems like Poe is the only one doing anything to save lives. Everyone else - from Leia to Adm. Holdo seems woefully ignorant of the real threats or any idea how to handle them. That ALL of these issues are present in just the first few minutes of the film - and are followed by a seemingly endless parade of equally reprehensibly errors, misjudgements and flawed. Frankly... the inconsistencies, plot holes, and utterly inauthentic character development make TLJ a complete failure - both in and of itself and as the all important middle episode of a trilogy. What a disastrous entry in a once loved franchise...
And all that in a movie in which half the "story" is watching the Resistance literally running out of gas. The only thing that could have been worse is if Holdo's "plan" involved coating the escape shuttles in a special chemical surface treatment to render them invisible on sensors but having to wait until the stuff fully cured before launching any of the craft --- which would have had us spending half the movie also watching paint dry.
I did the count and I think that Poe took out TEN TIEs in that continuous shot. Add in taking out a squad of stormtroopers in that shot as well, and that is an incredible string of success
This "Poe was not intended to be a main character" seems to me like a reheated "HAn was not intended to be a main character". Unless the first minutes of the movie were changed to cope with that, it sounds a little odd that the story focus on Poe for 5-10 minutes for him to just die in a TIE crash.
Yeah. I still don't buy that Poe was never intended to be a major character. My guess is in the first draft Poe DOES survive the TIE crash and he's the one who flies the Falcon off of Jakku, but someone with the same two letters for intials asked "Why can't we have Rey do that?" and it was changed and Poe was killed. He only got to come back because, well, they needed an ace pilot for the attack on Starkiller base and even Rey couldn't be in three places (in an X-Wing, in the Falcon and fighting Kylo) at once. :)
@@patrickstewart3446 Indeed. What a waste to not use George's sequel scripts (and his story and characters) in the first place. TFA makes no sense. And that Falcon scene is cringeworthy at times. Rey is irritating.
People forget that the whole resistance would have been destroyed by the dreadnought if he didn't push through with the bombers. It was about to shoot their only capital ship.
If that's the case why didn't the dreadnought fire on the Resistance ships during the bomber attack? Well that's because the canons were recharging... during which time the Resistance fighters/bombers could've landed back on the Radus or just jumped away. And do keep in mind the Resistance had no reason to believe they could be tracked through hyperspace. In other words, there's no reason to throw so many resources at that one ship... when they (according to Poe) have more of them and didn't know they could be pursued by it.
He probably wasn't aware those bombers were the most poorly designed ship in all of the lore. He was waiting for the B and Y Wings. In retrospect, he didn't care about them because they were not designed to survive any enemy engagement anyway, and they still destroyed a dreadnought to boot. That's a win.
Thor Skywalker well, the cannons fired at the planet first, and the fighters were very far away. I doubt they would have gotten back in time to jump before they were destroyed.
@@thorskywalker , Sorry Thor... that reasoning fails because of what happened in Episode V. How did Darth Vader show up on Bespin before Han and Leia? Boba Fett was able to project their probable course by analyzing the Falcon's entry into hyperspace. In Legends that tracking method was known and the routinely negated by microjumps... jumping to a close star (or a few light years away) then entering hyperspace on the actual vector required to the destination. In the novel Bacta War, such tracking methods were mentioned several times. Yet, that tracking method isn't in Canon... What you're doing is trying to fix sub-grade school level writing. _General_ Leia and the resistance were so incompetent to allow their ships to run on the Star Wars equivalent of fumes instead of being topped off like any other navy would have them. Hyperfuel isn't rare nor expensive; The X-Wings are nearly 1m credits each and they made multiple jumps through hyperspace in Episode VII. Only reason they couldn't is because RJ wanted his space chase... and used the "low on fuel" excuse. If they were that low, they should have jumped to a system with a refueling station... Worse, that Dreadnought shouldn't have been destroyed. The First Order was entering a system with the intention to destroy an enemy base. With 30 minutes remaining before exiting hyperspace, the Tie pilots should be at their fighters running system checks. With 5 minutes remaining before exiting hyperspace, the Tie pilots should be in their fighters getting last minute pre-battle orders. As soon as the ships exited hyperspace, those fighters should be leaving the docking bay. Within 30 seconds the Tie fighters squadrons should have been forming up around the ships. Within 120 seconds, the Tie Fighters should all have left their hangar, formed up, and attacking the enemy or screening the ships from enemy fighters. The First Order's crews should have been running pre-battle checks on shields, weapons, and point defence turrets. They should have been activated before exiting hyperspace. As soon as the ships exited hyperspace they should be scanning for enemy ships/fighters. As soon as they detected them they should be tracking them. As soon as any ships or fighters entered range they should be firing upon them. The Resistance only had a single squadron of fighters and a single squadron of bombers... none of them should have survived the attack on the dreadnought... RJ's editors never added any weapons fire from the ships despite the fact their weapons were activated and they were in range. RJ did not edit out the order by Hux to fire on the bombers. D'oh! By the time "Vice-Admiral" Holdo takes control, Poe lost his entire Squadron... Kylo Ren's Torpedoes destroyed them. He was demoted because he lost all of those people... but... it doesn't make sense to lord it over him when his actions later proved to be correct... but hey, bad writing is bad writing, you can't do anything about it other than pretend the writer was competent.
@@thorskywalker Hey Thor, just wanted to make it clear this was just friendly criticism, I think you have one of the more objective views of star wars as a whole. I just think the whole star battle was done poorly in the movie and Poe was chastised more for gender politics rather than what actually happening on screen. The bombers were slow, and were out already when Poe called them in. I dont understand how they would have possibly had time to get back.
Poe is one of those characters where the presentation and the actual events contradict eachother. The story is telling us that Poe makes irrational decisions that get people killed for no reason (maybe not to that extreme but given the way Holdo seems to be more than happy to put him in his place, I get the distinct impression that she sees it that way). Poe "recklessly" flying into Starkiller Base saved the galaxy since that thing was going to fire on another star-system. Poe "recklessly" taking out the dreadnaught saved the rebellion since that 'fleet killer' would have also followed the tracker and destoyed the rebellion. Poe's "reckless" joint code-breaker plan only failed because some randon BB-EVIL saw through Finn's retarded idea of a disguise for BB-8. The hilarious part is that after his ark, he decides to not take out Death Star Cannon Junior because it's too dangerous at a moment where the only reason they got into those half-broken speeders was to make a last ditch suicide run to take it out. He is literally the only rational person when script is trying to tell he's not and then becomes the most irrational person when his ark is complete.
I love these longer character assessments. Poe had a fair amount of potential. One thing that I really don’t like is how unbelievably good he is as a pilot. He’s pulling stuff off that Luke and Anakin could never pull off. He makes Anakin, the best pilot in the Galaxy look like a learner driver. He defies that universes physics, let alone ours. On at least a few occasions, most notably on the attack on SKB he’s going in a straight line at top speed, and within a metres he’s done a full 45 degree turn at top speed. How? He pilots like how a kid plays with their LEGO X-wings. BuT hE gRew Up NeAR a FoRcE trEe! ThAT meAns He Is fOrCe SeNsiTiVe! To quote Han Solo “that’s not how the force works”
I've always found it odd that Poe has no idea what the chain of command seems to be. When Holdo is named as the new leader, not only does he seems disappointed that he wasn't the next in line, but he also has no idea what Holdo looked like. An organization that small really has no reason that a military commander in it doesn't know the other leadership but where he is in the command structure.
None of the 3 - Rey, Finn, Poe - are well developed. They're two-dimensional. You could replace Finn's entire backstory as a Stormtrooper kidnapped and indoctrinated as a child and barely have to rewrite anything about his character. He just acts like a typical guy they ran into and could have any backstory. His history doesn't matter at all nor is reflected in his character. Poe is just generic pilot character. And Rey is a cardboard good guy. What does she want? What are the flaws that she must overcome? What are her personal reasons for joining the Resistance? The movies barely skim the surface of anything other than telling us "she's a good guy, she fights evil." The closest to a character in the entire trilogy so far is Kylo and he's even had moments of being a cartoon villain.
Well said. These are not good characters. And there is simply zero story or continuity or logic to any of this. They should have used George's sequel scripts - with his actual plot and proper new characters that he envisaged.
Im going to admit, I was quite young when I saw The Force Awakens. I will also admit that I enjoyed it when I first saw it, largely because I was part of the 'target audience': Children old enough to have seen Star Wars and to understand what was happening but too young to discover the severely flawed characters and unfortunately disappointing writing. One thing that I never realized until somewhat more recently, i.e. when TLJ came out, was that Poe is a main character. It had never before occurred to me that he was. I personally think that he's the best of the three. He's talented, eager, and generally good-hearted, But he's had too little screen-time. This was also before I really began to realize the PC overtones in the movie, which has now become a turn off from me ever rewatching the Disney Trilogy films. I think that Poe is a character that has incredible potential, and I think TLJ wanted to explore this, but his lack of background in the previous film did not set his character up for success. I generally felt bad for him during the Holdo regime onboard the Raddus, and I believe what he did to be totally justified.
I thought Poe was pretty cool until TLJ, and his X-Wing scenes were pretty cool. Especially the scene at the discount cantina when he blasted half a dozen tie fighters in seconds. He's a beast of a pilot and I was expecting more characterization to go along with it.
It's pretty clear what happened to Poe in TLJ. It's the same thing that happened to Ackbar, Leia, Luke, Snoke, and everyone else: *Rian Johnson's first draft*
Just had a conversation with some people about Poe's 'development' in the first two movies, and you've said everything that I was trying to. Poe has next to no real development in TLJ, and everything that he was in TFA was completely taken apart. And the decisions that were made provided no merit to redeem himself, it didn't turn him into a better character. It simply made no sense. It still boggles my mind that people really enjoyed TLJ when there were narrative decisions made like these.
The problem here is that PO did not get these soldiers killed at all. Leia is the one who gave the order to confront the first order and then she said to back off. As a commanding officer you should know how your fleet inside and out. Those bombers weren't going anywhere fast and there's no way they would have escaped anyway. Leia made the wrong call and Poe cleaned up her mess
I know the movie played the outcome of that battle to destroy the dreadnought as Poe being hot headed, and the mission being a failure due to the casualties, but I've got to disagree with every character who thinks that. He lead a limited strike force against a dreadnought and destroyed it at a very limited cost (a dozen or so fighters, maybe a little more and a few bombers), that dreadnought alone though represented thousands of times the industrial effort and manpower to build and crew than the losses the Resistance suffered. If the Resistance is so heavily outnumbered, outgunned and completely unable to replace its losses as to still consider the attritional losses of of a battle with a casualty ratio that lopsided as, at best, a pyrrhic victory then its lost the war already. The only two other reasons I can think of for why Poe win is so scorned is either 1) the Resistance isn't committed to the fight and are unwilling to take any casualties, i.e. Starkiller Base did what it was intended to do and broke their moral and they shouldn't even bother fighting any more in that case, or 2) Leia and Holdo are angry he disobeyed orders, which is something that needs to be dealt with by being clear just how much authority the on site battlefield commander has to carry out his mission, and that's a "we need to have a discussion behind closed doors" problem that needs to be hammered out and have any ass chewing done in, not a "you're demoted, consider yourself lucky your not being sent to the brig" problem.
I like Poe, he really needs to have a better character arc in TROS, him and Finn could have been a big asset in the last Jedi. But, I hope we can see more of that in a few weeks!
I NEED to see a dog fight between Poe the "best pilot ever" and Kylo Ren aka the son of Han and Grandson of Anakin, two legendary pilots. Perhaps that would give a cool action scene in episode 9 and a way for Poe to serve a purpose.
We do find out how Poe escaped Jakku, but it's in Lego Force Awakens. They actually used that Lego game to explain several pieces of TFA backstory, like how Han got the rathtars, how 3PO got his red arm, a bit of backstory on Lor San Tekka, and how Kylo found out that the map to Luke was in Tekka's possession. When a Lego game is how you choose explain important elements of your movie's story, you have a problem.
I think you hit the nail on the head with the remarks about consistency. Putting aside the lack of character development in the new trilogy, a big problem has been that their characters also aren't consistent. It feels like we're watching different people that just happened to look the same and have the same name. Instead of being a single story told in three parts it seems more like an anthology of tales
I feel like these movies could have made really interesting and good use of Flashback scenes, in order to create a backstory, for example showing Kylo at the temple not fitting in, then causing the destruction of it, Luke going to Poe’s family, obviously not having a flashback for every character, but just key components to tie things up and add actual character to our characters lol
Yes! Condemn those people to hell for having their very own opinion not intertwined by modern-day fanbases and media! Fuck them right to hell! Oh wait.
Thor Skywalker, I have a ideas as to how Rey could be so powerful. This 4 day weekend I rewatched attack of the clones and a few episodes of the clones wars. I'm always surprised how much goes under the nose of the grand master Jedis. How they can't see stuff coming and can't tell what going on around the gallery. I know most of this is because Darth sidious is clouding the force, but I also think back to when mace windo ask Yoda "Do you think it's time to tell the console our ability to use the force has deminish?" Many Star wars fans have theory's as to why their ability to use the force diminished. Some say it was because an unbalance, way too many light side users and not many dark side users, so they because weak. Other's believe it was because the Jedi became too much about following their own rules, their own thoughts, and own *wills* and not the will of the force. Either way, my theory is maybe part of the reason Rey is so powerful is *#1* because there isn't that many light side users as before, *#2* She doesn't follow any rules of an old religion, *#3* she may have considered that voice in her head her whole life to be her conscience, only now to realise it's more than a desert illusion, *#4* she doesn't hold herself back from using the force, she has no problem using the light side, or the power from the dark. And *#5* she was born/created to be this powerful, from the hands of Vader, Luke, and Darth sidious. She was designed to be the most powerful. I think with all of these combined, there's a chance to redeem the unexplained power she has. Looking forward to your episode 9 review, I hope it's a good movie that can explain and redeem this trilogy; I might get a chance to see it Christmas day.
What if JJ didn’t listen to Oscar Issac and not write him back into 7 after the tie fighter crash? This way his character wouldn’t have been wasted in episode 8. What if Rian Johnson had a great episode 8 script, that’s why Poe didn’t go with Finn? Rian wrote Poe back into the script because JJ decided to listen to Oscar Isaac and let his character live
The ad in the middle was a budget insurance ad. Lady detective holds up a file with star wars written on it. Male detective looks and says "star wars, that doesn't make any sense". Ad finishes, Thor says "which doesn't make sense". Seems like everyone knows in Oz now.😉
I believe the message was supposed to be about Poe not always taking a big risk and instead knowing when to retreat or something like that. Still wouldn't make sense when Rose keeps Finn from sacrificing himself like Holdo did for them, but at least the character arc is more consistent at first.
Will you be making a video on Rose? It would be short, but amusing. The trilogy would have been better if he had died, and Rey and Finn started a budding relationship. Not *good*, but better.
The thing is, Poe does feel regret/loss for the pilots under his command during the attack on the Dreadnought. We get that scene when Poe sees Paige's bomber complete the mission but fall into the explosion and you can see the regret on his face. And he then calls all those lost heroes, telling us that he wanted to honor their sacrifice. Honestly, I don't think anyone will be able to explain the Holdo vs. Poe plotline of TLJ because I think that Rian Johnson just made it up as he went along. There is a scene just prior to the Supremacy coming out of hyperspace when Leia explains the plan to Finn on the bridge, and Poe is just feet from Finn (off screen) but then when Holdo takes command, Poe asks what the plan is? So either Rian Johnson forgot that Poe was right there within hearing distance of Leia, or Poe was asking if the plan had changed with a new commander and new circumstances (probably the most reasonable theory), or Holdo was just an idiot and a terrible commander who's only purpose was to make Poe look foolish and to add 'forced' tension into the plot.
Just thinking about two years ago in this exact same spot before a brand spanking new Star Wars movie and I can't remember ANY negativity from the fandom. Lots of Mike Zeroh speculation and excitement to be had at every turn. Crazy when you think about it. It really was a turning point. This all comes down to the powers that be and the people they put in charge with this property. I never thought there'd be a day that I felt ambivalent about more Star Wars.
What I liked about the original trilogy was that the main characters were not even that high within the hierarchy of the rebel alliance. Luke commanded a squadron, Han and Lando were generals, and Leia was still a princess, but they had an overall commander in Hoth and were not even part of the leadership that decided the attack on Death Star II, or that had the briefing about it. It felt like these characters, although very important to us, were actually ancillary to a much larger story. People seem to forget, but Luke’s battle with Vader and Palpatine was important to him, to his personal journey, but it didn’t change much the course of the rebellion. With or without the duel, the Death Star, Vader and Palpatine would all be destroyed. It meant that Luke didn’t single handily defeated the empire, but many other pilots (Lando, Wedge etc) did.In the sequel trilogy, we have no idea how the command structure works and who’s important or not. It’s a mess.
That idea for Poe and Finn going to get the fuel together is a great idea. It could show Poe at the ship torn over the need to return the fuel to the fleet and save Finn. The scene could then go to show Poe's ship leaving and bring the scene back to Finn. At the last moment Poe would save Finn, revealing Poe had left BB8 to fly the ship and fuel back to the resistance. All the missed potential makes me sad.
Poe so good as a pilot he should be force sensitive. Finn - best first order trooper, also broke his “mind control” Clearly he should be Force sensitive Poe - super great pilot so good you question during TFA if he has the force. Clearly he should be force sensitive. They could have had all three protagonist be force sensitive starting a new order
So while they didn't know The First Order could track them through lightspeed, but had Poe not destroyed the Dreadnaught, it only would have chased them through lightspeed and it would have been a problem then with the added back up of The Supremacy, and the rest of the fleet they brought, there was no chance they get the bombers to it to destroy it and the fleet would have been slaughtered, so whether they knew it or not, Poe being reckless actually gave them a fighting chance and the bombers they lost didn't die for nothing.
4 minutes in and I can't help thinking if they spent time planning rather than spewing out films, they could've had cinematic greats that surpass the OT on their hands but what's done is done and we need (forgive the pun) A New Hope 😆
Poe was the character I was most excited about. A cool, friendly guy that is Leia’s most trusted pilot. Leia has known many great pilots, and she considered Poe her best. Poe wasn’t just a commander. He was a Wing Commander! He was in charge of the Resistance’s fighter squadrons. Poe was great in his comic series, and that was based solely on the way he was portrayed in TFA. TLJ did him wrong.
Ok for the record, I have to point out that Poe didn't get anyone killed in TLJ. That designation actually lies on Holdo's head. To explain and understand that, one has to be at least passingly familiar with organized military and chain of command. At some point, someone in the fleet put in a requisition order for bombers because they didn't have them. That ether went up the chain of command for approval and then was sent over to whoever was in charge of the motor pool, or that was handed down directly from the top to the motor pool. From there, they would have contacted weapons manufactures for model options. We clearly see in the same movie that they in fact do have dedicated manufactures that are on some kind of pay roll and that these bombers weren't just some kind of impossibly bad salvage job. Those manufactures would have sent out specs to them to look over for selection and approval. From those options, the motor pool would have handed the list up and made recommendations. Here's the important part that has to be understood here. Holdo worked directly under Lea who was the head of this organized military organization. The higher that list passed through command, the more responsibility each individual had to take any units suggested in that list, and remove them and in this particular case, for not being combat ready. Working directly under Lea, at some point that list passed through her hands directly on it's way up. Holdo was directly responsible for those death trap bombers being in the fleet. Now, we need to recognize what Poe's role is in an organized military. As we can see from the first death star briefing, Poe holds about the same rank and role as Luke does. Note: Luke is not the one planning the mission. He's receiving orders and not the other way around. The entire mission in the beginning of TLJ was produced under the premise that they knew the threat they were under and all the resources they had were being thrown at it just like the death star runs. As they acknowledge, this particular type of star destroyer is a fleet killer. So in essence, this mission is yet again another run on another death star so to speak. In every instance of trying to destroy the death stars and any fleets surrounding them, they incurred heavy losses. Luke wasn't court marshaled, busted down in rank, or anything of that nature was he? No, he was given a medal for his bravery, valor, and efforts. What happened to Poe? He was just short of being tossed into the brig all the while Holdo intentionally kept vital plans from her own crew and otherwise military. Compare that to how Lea and generals handled Hoth for example. Those on Hoth were informed of evacuation plans and randevu locations. They weren't withheld vital information for their escape. When properly examined Holdo goes from being in any way shape or form a redeeming character of any kind, to being an incompetent leader and coward who put the blame for her own mistakes on Poe and would have doomed all of them to die if it wasn't for the sheer dumb luck of those who ether left the fleet to do something productive or the one person who was for them that wasn't even in on her plan to begin with. Poe was not at fault for anything or anyone. Holdo is distinctly at fault for all the losses.
Thank you for pointing out the senseless inconsistencies of Poe in TLJ. I love Poe, but it was clear that Ryan Johnson had no idea what to do with him. Even if JJ was improvising his survival, I still think it was the right call, since it gives the audience a more character-driven investment in the fighter battles. And since fighter battles are an area where IMHO the prequel trilogy was extremely weak, I definitely want to see the sequels nail them. Poe helps them do that, but it's otherwise clear that nobody really has any idea where his character is going, so I can't really speculate on his fate in Ep9. In his defense, though, I don't think Poe's recklessness in Ep8 is for lacking compassion. Rather I think he is over-focused on the big picture, the "hypothetical" good impact of what he's doing, to the point of neglecting the cost that's right in front of him. In that sense, he shares the same character flaw that Yoda criticizes in Luke, not paying enough attention to where he is in the moment. But, it was still badly done. People familiar with the books and comics have noted that Poe already had the "be less reckless" lesson taught to him once or twice before, so retreading it again after Starkiller Base, and in such a gross extreme, only serves to undermine his character. Holdo is just a bad leader, period. For all her flowery speeches, she has a complete disregard for morale, expecting the conduct of people who just follow orders, not people who believe in the cause and will therefore ask questions. Her style of leadership is both contrary to what the Resistance is, and somehow, contradictory to herself. The only thing that keeps me from calling her an elitist is how easily she forgave Poe for mutiny. Her character is just all over the place.
He’s my favorite sequel character. I just find him really charming, and his relationship with Finn. I hate what they did to him (and everyone else) in Episode VIII.
This video kinda made me realize how much of a psychopath Poe seems to be in TLJ. I think if they explored his past a little more, maybe have a scene where he talks about how his parents were murdered by the First Order, then perhaps his urge to throw as many punches as he can against the enemy would feel more justified and sympathetic.
And he only has a _teensy_ bit more character than Rey.
That's sad, Disney. That's real sad.
Lance Curry They don’t care. They got your money.
After much hesitation I stated to watch SW animated series until I saw that.
@@ForceMaximus84 not mine.
What’s worse for me is he’s the one I like the most of the new characters
Disney is pathetic with the way they handle star wars
The Force Awakens: builds paper-thin characters.
The Last Jedi: puts the paper in the shredder
🔥🔥🔥
Rise of Skywalker: frantically trying to put something together out of the mess.
Accurate
thejobo85 That’s the frustration with me. TFA was a decent setup, even as a rehash of ANH, but TLJ literally trashed everything just because Rian Johnson could. It’s all incredibly stupid and lazy how all of this has gone down.
The most perfect analogy of all time
Holdo shouldn't have thought Poe was the leak. She should have thought FINN (ya know, the ex storm trooper that defected not 3 days ago) was the leak and that maybe Poe was accidentally feeding him information.
Necromancer4267 If they had it where she tried to lock up Finn for that reason, but he and Poe escape to find help or something similar, that would’ve been infinitely more interesting.
Or rose. The unhinged savage who was stunning rebels and disposing of their bodies in escape pods. I’m
Yea seriously, Hodo's failure to act on the supposed mole threat really just ruins any sense of competency on her part.
I don't think she thought Poe was the leak that was just a dumb excuse. She might have thought someone under his command was though and that he couldn't keep a secret - and in a way she was right as his actions to undermine her actually lead to the ships being spotted and them all killed - but lets be honest they'd have just sent out probe droids and found them all inside 2 days anyway. So everyone still would have died the only way they could have survived is if the 1st Order thought they were all dead.
Elmar live So did I.
The sad part is he has a good backstory too.
Born and raised on Yavin IV by former Rebels.
Luke brought a tree from the Jedi Temple to his family's home on Yavin IV for them to guard it.
There's a lot to work with. His parents have developed backstories too.
Its sad its not used.
Agreed. The other sources of canon have turned him into an interesting character. But that's what the movies were supposed to do.
Considering that the movie has established in one scene that Finn and Poe somehow forgot about flying troopers, despite coming across them in a previous comic, it’s clear Abrams and Kennedy don’t give a rat’s ass about their own continuity.
@@thorskywalker, Poe is the perfect candidate to be the secret Skywalker.
For ep9 they consulted George Lucas how to finish the last 1/3 of the movie (because the test screening showed everybody hated their first version). Lucas introduced a secret Skywalker and his version was liked by everybody.
That would be a perfect subversion of expectations, because there are actual hints. As you pointed out, being a good pilot runs in the Skywalker family.
Was having well-adjusted family members on screen threatening to potential viewers or something?
@@ShmuckTheUnfunny Not when it's a white man's family.
This isn't flying, this is failing without style.
This is a quote from toy story? :p
@@comicsranger ,
Falling with style is the quote, lol.
Victor Bruant A. Maz. Ing.
I thought he was going to be the best character after the intro to FA and blowing up the base (like Luke did). Alas no. He is going to be treated like crap too just like Luke, Finn, 3PO, Han, Leia, and Kylo Ren. They all end up looking like idiots and none of them were.
@@nolimitsamputee5219 ,
Chewbacca, Leia, C-3PO, R2-D2, Finn, and Rose could all be removed from TLJ and the story wouldn't change. That tells us something, lol.
He actually saved everybody by blowing up that dreadnought. If they had made a jump into hyperspace before taking out the dreadnought, the First Order would have tracked them and have obliterated the entire resistance fleet. So Holdo and Leia are giving him shit when in fact he saved their lives.
Bad writing.. So pathetic
When Rian Johnson wrote TLJ I’m pretty sure that he took the list of names from TFA and started writing his story with no regard for who the characters were or what happened to them in the first film.
In addition to the serious change in Poe, Captain Phasma who I was among the millions who assumed had died in the trash compactor when Star Killer Base was destroyed (seriously, how did she survive?) showed up in TLJ for a second showdown with Finn.
Johnson seems to have had no understanding nor concern for what Abrams had done in the first film and went about telling his own terrible story. I can’t even call TLJ bad fan fiction because I don’t believe that Johnson is a fan and his story was so bad that it was an insult to true fan fiction written by actual fans.
I'm pretty sure rian Johnson said he started writing episode 8 before episode 7 was even finished so your right on point
the first scene sums it up, he created while filming, and seriously if Ryan Johnson makes a living being like that mb i should be a director like Spielberg ...
Dude, I can't believe it took me this long to articulate this, but Rian Johnson and Lucasfilm don't give a shit about continuity!
@@roguedisciple5961 yet creating a single continuity is why they tossed the EU into the trash compactor....
Well said. Rian Johnson also made JJ change his screenplay because he just had to have his way. JJ was planning to have giant boulders floating around Luke to show what a powerful Jedi he had become. Luke also originally knew who Rey was. But his story was thrown away because Rian just had to have his way. Sad.
It's almost like he got enough backstory for a character that dies in the first 20 minutes of a movie.
cdelve3125 🎯🎯🎯
According to Oscar Issac, that was actually the original plan for Poe's character - he was going to die in the TIE crash
@@isaiahlee2902 zats ze joke
@@isaiahlee2902 You can't possibly be that bad at missing the joke.
@@LordVader1094 well apparently I am, so....
Rian Johnson really did a great job with „subverting expectations“.
I mean, we expected/hoped to get a good movie, but that is where Rian got us.
JJ also failed to write good character development and dialogue for almost every character.
Rian fucked up but literally everyone involved in writing Disney Star Wars has fucked up.
Here’s one thing I know about Poe: he has clearly been making the right decision, all the way.
1. If he didn’t destroy that Dreadnaught, it would have followed the Resistance through hyperspace and destroyed them.
2. He was a LEADER for people who also felt that Holdo was not up to the task, as she seemingly had NO PLAN!
Here were his only mistakes:
1. Not did not immediately put Holdo & her crew in a jail cell, or stun them. Instead he put them right next to a loose exhaust pipe.
2. Not going with Finn/Rose on the journey to Canto Bight. Make Rose stay behind!
He leads by example and gets down in the trenches and crossfire WITH the people he leads. And he’s willing to be shot and branded a traitor if it means ensuring the survival of his crew.
He may be my favorite SEQUEL TRILOGY character.
Truth, although he shouldn’t have left for Canto until Holdo was in the brig. Definitely the best sequel character.
The reason that Poe did not go with Finn was because Rian thought two dudes who got along would make for a boring adventure: www.reddit.com/r/saltierthancrait/comments/bcwged/rian_johnson_claimed_having_poe_and_finn_together/
the strangest thing, is that when poee disobeyed orders, and atacked that dreadnaut, he acctuly achieved a great military victory... he managed to destroy a very deadly enemy vessel with 200.000 enemies inside, and only lost a few ships (bad and slow ships i might add, comapred to y-wings those ships were horrible) and what? 60 soldiers tops?
in that regard, any general would give him a medal, but leia only gives him a slap... and at the end... he does exactly what hee is not supose to do, that is "turning back" which is ridiculous, because if they did not destroyed that "mini death star thingy" the door would be gone and they would be dead... so, turning back, was realy NOT the right thing to do... so his arc, is acctuly a descent... he was right at the beggining, and wrong at the end...
The problem with that analysis is scale. The First Order effectively has infinite troops and ships, while the Resistance is down to a couple dozen ships, including fighters, and maybe a thousand people total. If losing Starkiller Base didn't bother them, why would losing a dreadnaught? Their remaining fleet is still strong enough to destroy the Resistance fleet many times over.
@@hemtt543 did you hear the part where i said that those bombers they used were garbage? XD
y-wings were way more effective than those bombers, so honestly, they didnt need that slow and useless ships, than you have a couple of x-wing and a-wings lost, but still, in any shape or form man, if you managed to kill 200.000 and loose only 60 you're good... trust me...
as for funding, i can garantee you, this is not the biggest problem of the resistence, lando is pretty much a rich guy, he can pay for way more x-wings... personel? well, they had way more before of holdo stupid plan, and would have way less if poe had not destroyed that dreadnaut.
@@hemtt543 durring that movie, i tought about 12 plans that where better than holdo plan, that bitch was stupid...
@@hemtt543 If that dreadnaught was in the space chase the shields would have been down much faster and the Resistance would be Rey, Chewie, Finn, and Rose.
Also, Leia had agreed to that plan, and the rest of the pilots went with Poe, not her futile retreat order.
I really hoped that Poe could be one of the best characters of the sequels, alongside Finn and Kylo Ren. My hopes for these three characters were crushed.
Poe was really lackluster in personality, personal story and motivations. What Rian Johnson did with Poe in The Last Jedi is almost criminal. Poe was treated like trash by Holdo and Leia just to prove Holdo's point (which was a suicidal mission as well).
@@gplgs4640 not only Rian Johnson threw out of the window J.J.s plans for the sequel, he made the worst sequel possible for a Star Wars movie. Yeah, J.J. isn't a good storyteller or a good director, but his story might had some kind of background for Snoke, Rey and Luke.
@@eldenvedetta635 yeah, that's why I've said it was a suicidal mission as well. Holdo's plan was as dumb or even worse compared to Poe's plan.
It's sad that The Last Jedi used one of the main characters just to pander to wokeness. Now we have to deal with those freaks who think they are "ThE ReSIstAnCe" or "ThE ReBeLS" and cry on every single aspect of The Mandalorian.
@@DinDjarr1 Very true friend, but the problem is Disney is still either too ignorant to understand, or too incompetent to care, that even though SJW's cry and whine and scream, they DO NOT BUY ANYTHING! There was PLENTY of Rose Tico merchandise before, and NO ONE BOUGHT IT, but now that there is none, the SJW's have cried and whined "WHERE'S ROSE? They took her out cuz she's a woman of COLOR!" So they complain when there is no merch of a character, but didn't buy any when there was, literal factual 100% provable evidence that SJW's do NOT buy merch, EVEN WHEN they complain, so they should literally just NOT be listened to, and MAYBE Disney is starting to understand that. If you didn't know they're apparently going to start releasing prequel and original trilogy toys now because they realize Disney Crap Characters don't sell, but the problem is long time fans like me don't even care to buy characters we love like Plo Koon and Kit Fisto because why would I want Disney, the company who is responsible for The Last Jedi, to make money? I would rather buy second-hand stuff online and from thrift stores. And I think a lot of fans share the sentiment of not wanting Disney to make money.
@@eldenvedetta635 I think you should buy the Figuarts and Nendoroids of Star Wars characters. They are awesome figures.
@@DinDjarr1 But JJ didn't actually have anything planned, he's known for not being able to finish series that he works on and what he wrote for TFA was paper thin and bad anyway.
Not excusing Rian but Star Wars fans need to wake up and realize that Disney has been writing some awful shit all along.
Writers: time to write [insert character name]'s backstory
Disney: NO DONT!
writers: why not?
Disney: We'll create questions behind these guys and sell them the answers as comics and books!
DISNEY: BUT DONT REVEAL ANYTHING ABOUT SNOKE
Everyone: why
Disney: *REASONS*
I can't wait for this movie to come out...so I can start outlining a massive fix-it fanfic rewriting the whole sequel trilogy so it has a consistent plot and some character development 😂
Pablo Hidalgo: your snoke theory sucks.
Fans: your actual snoke sucks
The Last Jedi really destroyed every character.
Yep
Both old and new.
Didn't destroy... Nien Nunb... (only seen at the end on the Falcon)... I think that's it tbh.
Pretty much. “Let the past die. Kill it, if you have to” was the goal of TLJ. Ridiculous.
There wasn't much to destroy to begin with imho.
THERE'S NO SAVING THE SEQUEL'S! But thanks for the info about Poe. The uselessness of his character makes sense now!!!
Curtis Langford
The trailers look really weak...I’m not going to pay to see it
@Char Aznable Not saying anyone should but you know if you just happen to pay for CATS and then walk into Rise of Skywalker I don't think anyone will notice.
Holdo as a character doesn’t make sense and has no reason for being there.
Unless they played the "secret imperial spy within the New Republic" plotline which I thought could be pretty cool and would be a little bit meta too, as Holdo can represent all the Liberalist ideals and her secretly being evil could be shown as having cons as well as pros (Di$ney will never actually do this though :c)
Except for extending the movie’s runtime an extra half hour.
Other than having a woman tell a man, “No”, not much more.
She's there, because wyman.
You have to read Leia Princess of Alderaan I liked Holdo's character in that book, TLJ made her look like CRAP
This Trilogy has a good group of characters that are let down with poor storytelling.
bunke Finn got the worst of it. I really like him in 7. Was totally wasted in 8.
@@Jooglesberry I agree as Finn was a pretty interesting character.
My pick was General Hux. I felt that he had a chip on his shoulder and was out to screw up Kylo, but Domhnall didn't overdo the acting.
bunke Gonna be honest I love every second he's on screen in 8.
@@Jooglesberry That's fine. I thought he was a bit goofy or at least the joke at the very beginning was between him and Poe.
Ugh RIGHT! Why Ryan Johnson WHYYYYYYYYYYYYY
When I saw him in action I really like him. He's like the closest thing to an Ace Combat protagonist we ever gonna get in movies. It's sad that Disney ruined him.
If you can stand anime (with a dirty weeb name like that of course you do) we at least have Macross and Gundam pilots to dazzle us with their Itano circus dodging antics.
His X-wing even has the colors of Mihaly's Su-30sm and X-02s.
It's too bad that even the silent Aces have been given more personality than Poe.
Truth... I’d take Mobius One over Poe any day. However the I’d definitely take Poe over Bishop...
A GREAT ADENDUM to this video: if you go back to the comics again, right before The Last Jedi, Poe learns the EXACT SAME LESSON he learns in The Last Jedi when he gets demoted. Like literally the exact same thing happens.
Okay I paused you to contribute that, finishing now.
Poe Dameron is a poor imitation of Wedge Antilles
Matt Digioia don’t compare them wedge Antilles is a actual hero
in the movies Poe has basically the same amount of backstory as Wedge, and he's a minor character...
@@spideysg1163 oh I'm with you Wedge is one of my heroes lol.
But I'm just saying. Poe is an obvious Wedge rip-off
@@grodius good thing Wedge had a whole series of books in the EU to make up for that.
Funny how he can have less screen time than Poe, and yet be a more fleshed out, more loved character. If you ask me, should've just put Wedge in instead of Poe.
Edit: to finish properly because my phone freaked out
RIP Porkins and Biggs Darklighter
As others have said, Poe Dameron is my favorite Sequel character. If I were to describe him, he's a badass pilot who's brave, heroic, funny, and has charisma in spades. Most of this is due to Oscar Isaac's acting ability. I do think Last Jedi utterly mishandles him (big surprise), but one thing I find ironic is that Rian Johnson message largely failed in my opinion.
If Holdo was supposed to be "cool, calm, and collected" while Poe was supposed to be "reckless and out of control" that's not the impression I got when I watched Last Jedi. Instead it looked like Holdo was an idiot (I'm serious, she must have been a diversity hire) and Poe looked like he was be proactive. Sure, his plan was desperate and unlikely to work, but his commander didn't give him any orders. In fact, the first time I watched Last Jedi, when Holdo tells Poe, "Sit tight and follow my orders" my exact reaction was, "Lady, he just asked for his orders and you told him nothing."
A video by Boofire1191 called "Poe Dameron did nothing wrong" sums up my feelings.
Exactly. Same feeling as you. While it's obvious that RJ was going for the "Poe is a toxic male" approach, he failed utterly, as for me Poe was RIGHT from beginning to end.
Thor, I love you for trying to make sense of all this nonsense. You're not just a demi-god, you're a saint as well.
8:00 you can hear him struggling to explain holdo
Poe: Not used enough in The Force Awakens. Then pissed all over by the "Strong WAMEN" of The Last Jedi....who knows that's coming for him in Rise of Skywalker....probably get shot by Rose for being too good a pilot.
Ace pilot downed by a potato sack, im sad lol
Finn - used with the wrong backstory and then turned into the butt of every joke in TLJ
@@darko-man8549 Finn was the only original Disney character in this crap trilogy that was actually interesting, but that interest just turned into him just being a joke because his entire backstory was a joke. The whole stormtrooper defector thing was really cool, until you learn how stupid and little sense the First Order makes, it also just makes Finn laughable at no fault of his own. Pretty sad.
He'll get violated by gundarks
@@eldenvedetta635 yeah agreed, that was my point, it was a great concept, but they misused it massively
My fix for Poe: His parents were killed by the nascent First Order, and their deaths were the first warning Leia had about it. She honored the sacrifice of her friends by taking in their young child, raising him alongside her own son, Ben. The two grew up together, but Poe was often mistaken for the son of Han and Leia, as he was the handsome, charismatic one, who even impressed Han with his daring flying skills, a trait Ben lacked (until he learned to compensate with the Force); this was one of the things that drove Ben deeper into resentment and was one of the hooks Snoke used to turn him. Afterwards, Poe is especially driven to fight the FO, both because it's right AND because they killed his parents, and in addition, has a personal score to settle with Kylo Ren, for tearing apart the family that took him in and hurting the woman who is a second mother to him. This would lead to some awesome dogfighting scenes with an Enemy Ace, which is something SW is strangely lacking in...
There. Fixed Poe, with Kylo Ren thrown in as a bonus!
Exactly. I mean they don't have any story. You have come up with something that these mindless morons didn't bother to do. Furthermore, they should have alluded to or explained who the hell the First Order and Snoke (awful name) are as well. Or frankly just used George Lucas' actual sequel scripts to begin with.
Poe was my most anticipated character in TFA, sad to see his character reduced to near nonexistence. Oscar Isaac really makes do with what he is given, which sadly isn't much but if it wasn't for him I probably wouldn't even remember the character's name.
Poe Dameron represents these three films perfectly. He’s a “what could have been”, he is, “potentially, a great character” who was written two different ways to serve two different versions of Star Wars and one common SJW narrative.
Damn they really did mess up Poes character too. Anyone else love the beginning of TFA, when Fin and Poe are in the tie fighter? That was probably the best scene in the sequel trilogy hands down.
That scene is so damn good. Not gonna lie, probably one of the most fun SW scenes in the past 2 decades or so. The two actors have great chemistry, and it was just so heartening to watch. But sadly, that just adds to the overall tragedy of this trilogy.
@@awakenow7147 idk about the best scene since the past 2 decades but it definitely beats the entirety of Rian Johnsons shitty abomination of a film lol
I don't agree with that though. It comes across as ridiculous. The trooper who hesitates to kill, who witnesses his friend get killed...is escaping with the man who killed his friend AND gleefully shooting at his former comrades and killing them without a second's hesitation or remorse. To add insult to injury, the "DID YOU SEE THAT, DID YOU SEE THAT" comes across as Earth like slang and unbefitting of the galaxy far far away. TFA started this entire mess where there is no logic, no story and no inspiring characters. They should have used George Lucas' actual scripts to begin with. Compare that scene to the comradeship of Han, Luke and Leia in the coincidentally (I am sure pure coincidence) similar scene in ANH with the Falcon escaping the Death Star. Or to the scene of Anakin and Obi Wan chasing the villain on Coruscant in AOTC, or Obi Wan and Anakin in the opening of ROTS. There is no comparison frankly. TFA and TLJ are just mindless action films with no substance.
@@darkjediknight2923 I can see that, it was kinda silly, but I'm just talking about the chemistry between them when they're in the tie fighter. I think the main problem with the sequel trilogy is how Disney handled everything. They brought on Terrible writers and directors, none of them are die hard starwars fans like Dave feloni. I'm starting to think they only chose JJ Abrams bc he directed the new Star trek films.
@@nikbrady14 Indeed. I mean I would say Gareth Edwards did a good job with Rogue One - since he told a story and actually went to George Lucas for advice. Feloni has a habit of doing silly things (like the clone chips) that can contradict the films though. But JJ made a complete mess of Episode 7 which ruined everything. The first mistake was throwing out George Lucas' actual sequel scripts. This is NOT what the CREATOR of Star Wars wanted to tell us period. Ergo it isn't the sequel trilogy, but mere fan fiction. I hesitate to even call it fan fiction, since no true fan would tell such a meaningless and inexplicable story that didn't make any sense or explain a single thing. Episode 7 doesn't feel like an Episode SEVEN. It feels like a random Episode 1 of a totally separate story that just happens to have some of the original cast in twisted versions of themselves on screen. As far as the TIE fighter scene goes, to me too much of the dialogue (especially Finn and Rey) is far too much Earth slang and not befitting of the Star Wars galaxy. It loses immersion and there is simply no story or context for any of this action to fit into. Compare that to the dialogue of the ESB Asteroid chase scene, or the Coruscant chase in AOTC. George wanted to give us Jedi students (including one called Kira) and proper story. I would say that would have been infinitely better than what we got instead.
There’s a book called Before the Awakening that gives backstory to Finn, Poe, and Rey. It’s actually pretty good; all of them get more development in their own short story than both movies so far. Yes, even Rey.
LC Kaboom Anyone who's read that book has to be disappointed with Finn’s subsequent portrayal and arc. He's supposed to be really competent, a leader, brave, fearless. He was turned into a sidekick.
Don Substance yeah, in the book he was basically the character Thor’s been saying he should be.
People like you obviously don’t pay much attention to characters at all. Rey and Finn has a whole lot of character development in the 2 movies. And Poe had a lot of character development in The Last Jedi.
Enlighten us, please. What has Finn's arc been, thus far?
Here's my take, based on Before the Awakening and the subsequent movies thus far. He starts off as a stormtrooper that was a child soldier stripped of his identity. Has no idea who he is, even where he's from or who his parents are. Nevertheless, he's become a fully competent soldier, in the top 1% of his cadre. Phasma's favourite. He has leadership qualities and is a strong and competent soldier. He also at times puts his comrades before himself, even when he's not supposed to.
He realises something is wrong or that he's different when he witnesses the FO massacre a bunch of workers/slaves on some mining planet. He refuses to join in. Then, on his first mission, a member of his fireteam and close friend gets killed (by Poe btw) during the FO raid on the village. He freezes up and realises this isn't what he's supposed to be doing. The programming has broken, somehow, for a reason, we haven't been privy to. He then freezes up again when asked to slaughter the villagers. It's now that he decides he wants out.
The next thing he does is free the guy who killed his best friend who caused his own reassessment, and then proceeds to kill a few more of his friends/comrades. Again, this was a kid who grew with these other kids and was trained to be a unit. This is the first issue I have with the Finn arc. Instead of maybe trying to convince others who also might have doubts about the FO, to revolt or something, he just gets all selfish and wants to escape with a resistance pilot even though it means he'd kill his brothers in the process.
FFwd to Jakku, he meets Rey and ends up on the falcon etc. Seems to fall for her in some way, either completely smitten or just felt a kind of platonic magnetism, he has an instant connection. Hits Takudana and wants to escape with her - but she refuses. Then she gets taken, and all he can think of is her. His selfishness for self-preservation suddenly disappears and he bravely runs towards ren's ship to try and stop her from being taken on board but fails. His mission then until the end of TFA is to save Rey and goes to SKB to do so, risking his life. He risks his life to save her from Ren, and ends up in a coma with a slashed spine for.... a day? Two days? Not sure. But not long. He wakes up and the first word is 'Rey'. She's all that's on his mind. His reason for escaping is for her. Not for himself. However, he's stopped by Rose cos she thinks he's a selfish traitor? Then he's jettisoned onto some side mission to canto bite, which basically goes nowhere fast. We can assume he's only doing this so he can prevent Rey from being captured or killed if she comes back to the Raddus, this is clear from him picking up Leia's beacon and realising rey would be in danger. Nothing else tells us that he's down for the resistance at all. BTW, in the novel, Rose roasts him a few times for various things and he nearly crashes the shuttle on the beach by clumsily hitting some switch. So much for the competent guy from the lead-up book. Anyway, it doesn't work out and we FFwd to him killing Phasma and going to crait. Again he's berated by Rose for using the wrong lever or something on the speeder things when attacking the ATATs, then decides that he'll do kamikaze as there's no way to stop the death star tech thing. Does he do this for the resistance purely or again, cos he knows Rey will possibly turn up and be killed? We don't know, but considering everything else, it's probably for Rey. Trying to save someone he loves; the only person he's probably ever loved. Again, his plan is thwarted by rose, who tells him not to sacrifice himself by killing who he hates but saving who he loves, which is what he was... doing anyway? Sigh... Even though both Rose's sister and Holdo did the same damn thing and were no doubt praised for it?
In the end, his arc is that he went from being fearless and brave to being scared and wanting to run, to being selfless for Rey to being self-sacrificing for Rey, to being berated for the latter.
The Force Awakens didnt start these 3 off well, but the last jedi doesnt even start at all
2nd Airborne Productions it did with Finn and Poe is decent but the last Jedi ruined Finn and Poe
@@spideysg1163 tfa did great with Finn actually
@@2ndairborneguy790no way, not past the first 10-15mins. After that he became a shitty sitcom character, acting like Kevin Hart & Chris Tucker.
@@S2GUnit I meant finn in TFA
@@S2GUnit Exactly. The trooper who hesitates to kill, who witnesses his friend get killed... proceeds to escape with the very man who killed his friend, whilst gleefully blasting his former comrades into oblivion with a relish, shouting "Did you see that! DID YOU SEE THAT!" over and over again. It's awful storytelling. There is no story in TFA which ruined everything to begin with even before the utter abysmal disaster of TLJ.
Poe Dameron is actually my favorite of the new characters; in fact, that he was never intended to be a major character actually makes him more interesting to me. This basically "throw-away" character, as you put it, goes on to do something great, is shown to have heroic qualities, and seems like an excellent leader. He had a few things to learn, still, but that's part of his character growth. Why did Rian Johnson feel the need to DEGRADE parts of his character growth that had already been accomplished? He made Poe seem like more of a liability to the resistance than the heroic gem he was shown to be in The Force Awakens. I would have played Poe's character better than Rian Johnson did, but by "play" here, I mean something like a playing card or chess piece; Oscar Isaac did a great job of playing him in the acting sense of the word. But just as I've summed up before as my impression of The Last Jedi, I liked the cinematography and the acting was excellent, but no amount of good acting can fix a poorly written story. I feel so bad about what was done to Poe's character; Luke Skywalker wasn't the only character that Rian Johnson seems to want to ruin.
Don’t worry Thor, the 38 issue self titled comic series doesn’t do much to explain his back story either
Thanks for doing these deeper looks. Rian J, really threw a bad film maker wrench in Star Wars.
Matt M. It’s Ruin Johnson.
"I can fly anything and they fly now." - Poe.
Han, Luke and Leia had simple but traceable and logical arcs. Luke's Arc is the whole reason to tell the story, basically. And I don't think they have any clue what story they're trying to tell with the sequel Trilogy, only the "message" they think they're conveying - "belonging", according to the latest toy commercial, and "inclusion" according to most mini-interviews by any of the stars, lately. The filmmakers don't know what the story is either, because they never bothered to clearly craft one.
Hey, does anyone remember when we used to posit wild theories based on what we thought were clues and the intense interest in where the story and characters could go?
Those were the good ol' days.
I miss Wedge. The x-wing series made him my favourite character in the setting. :(
Wedge is supposed to be in Episode Nine. Not sure if that's a good or bad thing though...
@@thorskywalker if the leaks are even 10% true probably not a good thing lol.
I'm trying to be optimistic though. It's Christmas. Maybe it will be a Christmas miracle.
@@thorskywalker So, Lucasfilm wants to kill of Wedge as well? Figures...
Thor Skywalker Christ alive... they just keep scraping the nostalgia barrel. Let’s face facts... A) this trilogy didn’t need to happen B) I’d rather remember the original characters as they were rather than get them to reprise their roles and try and shoehorn them in C) it’s a very cynical and disrespectful move by Disney to get older people to go and see aforementioned beloved characters as OAP’s just to sell movie tickets. And finally D) it’s just incredibly sad. There is potential there. We’ve had flashes of it. Rogue One and The Mandalorian. But the fact that the “headliner” is the sequel trilogy is just sad. And the saddest part of it all is that we can’t unsee it.
Rey "Kneel before my plot armor" Palpatine-Skywalker
He didn't make a huge mistake in the beginning of the film. if he hadn't taken out the dreadnought, when the first order followed them through hyperspace it would have destroyed the rest of the rebellion easily. The only reason they survived as long as they did was because of what he did.
Johnson was just too stupid to pay attention to his own storyline.
I will say i liked Rey and Finn in 7 and liked Poe but hoped we get more of him for 8, now it seems Poe is the more interesting character with a full backstory, skilled at what he does best, and is slowly becoming our leader in this battle.
While i don't expect much more from him, I hope he has a few more shining moments in the finales
(minus the jet trooper joke)
Yeah essentialy the only character that manage to make me feel something when he's on screen. Mostly thanks to Oscar Isaac
Me when they killed Ackbar in TLJ: "It's a crap!"
While I do admire your attempt to derive some meaning or depth with respect to Poe as a character, the truth is, Rian Johnson's screenplay is so illogical, poorly crafted and awkwardly paced that NONE of the character arcs or plot lines make any sense. In truth, he so lost track of his own plot and any semblance of reasonable character development, that his screenplay becomes completely unrecoverable in the first few minutes. Don't believe me? Here are just a few examples:
1. A linear, slow speed chase in multi-dimensional space...ummm.... what?
2. Fuel issues that similarly impact EVERY ship in the resistance fleet - regardless of type, design, mass or purpose?
3. A one-time janitor and an inexperienced, low-level tech not only identify the secret / previously unknown ability of the enemy to track them, but also manage to figure out not only HOW it is being done and WHERE it is being done but also come up with a plan to disable it within just a couple of minutes?
4. A "leader" who not only violates every tenant of effective leadership by not sharing critical information with her subordinates, but who then proceeds to isolate and punish the "hero" of the Battle of Starkiller Base - and the guy responsible for eliminating the "fleet killing" threat to the resistance "fleet" that no one else (including the First Order... who inexplicably decide to use the guns of the "fleet killing" Dreadnought on the Resistance planetside bases rather than on the large Resistance Fleet idly sitting in space waiting for everyone to come up from the planet. See... though not a military genius or anything, if the FO had targeted those ships first the entire Resistance would have been trapped on the planet, right?) seems to remember. Far from being "hot-headed" or grossly "insensitive" to the value of his subordinates, it seems like Poe is the only one doing anything to save lives. Everyone else - from Leia to Adm. Holdo seems woefully ignorant of the real threats or any idea how to handle them. That ALL of these issues are present in just the first few minutes of the film - and are followed by a seemingly endless parade of equally reprehensibly errors, misjudgements and flawed.
Frankly... the inconsistencies, plot holes, and utterly inauthentic character development make TLJ a complete failure - both in and of itself and as the all important middle episode of a trilogy. What a disastrous entry in a once loved franchise...
And all that in a movie in which half the "story" is watching the Resistance literally running out of gas. The only thing that could have been worse is if Holdo's "plan" involved coating the escape shuttles in a special chemical surface treatment to render them invisible on sensors but having to wait until the stuff fully cured before launching any of the craft --- which would have had us spending half the movie also watching paint dry.
I did the count and I think that Poe took out TEN TIEs in that continuous shot. Add in taking out a squad of stormtroopers in that shot as well, and that is an incredible string of success
This "Poe was not intended to be a main character" seems to me like a reheated "HAn was not intended to be a main character". Unless the first minutes of the movie were changed to cope with that, it sounds a little odd that the story focus on Poe for 5-10 minutes for him to just die in a TIE crash.
Yeah. I still don't buy that Poe was never intended to be a major character. My guess is in the first draft Poe DOES survive the TIE crash and he's the one who flies the Falcon off of Jakku, but someone with the same two letters for intials asked "Why can't we have Rey do that?" and it was changed and Poe was killed. He only got to come back because, well, they needed an ace pilot for the attack on Starkiller base and even Rey couldn't be in three places (in an X-Wing, in the Falcon and fighting Kylo) at once. :)
@@patrickstewart3446 Indeed. What a waste to not use George's sequel scripts (and his story and characters) in the first place. TFA makes no sense. And that Falcon scene is cringeworthy at times. Rey is irritating.
Remember those Poe secret Sith theories? Lol I bet those people feel very dumb these days.
My theory was that he was endeed Darth Jar Jar reincarnated or Darth Vitiate...or both, why not.
Wait. People theorized that? The Poe is a Sith thing?
Yep I do, I feel being more stupid the fact that I ever believed disney could ever treat this franchise with care.
@@strikeflyer I thought I was the only one who questioned that lmao
@@ulisesdemostenes7074 Jar Jar has always been Vitiate, what are you on about? This is canon
People forget that the whole resistance would have been destroyed by the dreadnought if he didn't push through with the bombers. It was about to shoot their only capital ship.
If that's the case why didn't the dreadnought fire on the Resistance ships during the bomber attack? Well that's because the canons were recharging... during which time the Resistance fighters/bombers could've landed back on the Radus or just jumped away. And do keep in mind the Resistance had no reason to believe they could be tracked through hyperspace. In other words, there's no reason to throw so many resources at that one ship... when they (according to Poe) have more of them and didn't know they could be pursued by it.
He probably wasn't aware those bombers were the most poorly designed ship in all of the lore. He was waiting for the B and Y Wings. In retrospect, he didn't care about them because they were not designed to survive any enemy engagement anyway, and they still destroyed a dreadnought to boot. That's a win.
Thor Skywalker well, the cannons fired at the planet first, and the fighters were very far away. I doubt they would have gotten back in time to jump before they were destroyed.
@@thorskywalker ,
Sorry Thor... that reasoning fails because of what happened in Episode V. How did Darth Vader show up on Bespin before Han and Leia? Boba Fett was able to project their probable course by analyzing the Falcon's entry into hyperspace.
In Legends that tracking method was known and the routinely negated by microjumps... jumping to a close star (or a few light years away) then entering hyperspace on the actual vector required to the destination.
In the novel Bacta War, such tracking methods were mentioned several times. Yet, that tracking method isn't in Canon... What you're doing is trying to fix sub-grade school level writing.
_General_ Leia and the resistance were so incompetent to allow their ships to run on the Star Wars equivalent of fumes instead of being topped off like any other navy would have them. Hyperfuel isn't rare nor expensive; The X-Wings are nearly 1m credits each and they made multiple jumps through hyperspace in Episode VII.
Only reason they couldn't is because RJ wanted his space chase... and used the "low on fuel" excuse. If they were that low, they should have jumped to a system with a refueling station...
Worse, that Dreadnought shouldn't have been destroyed. The First Order was entering a system with the intention to destroy an enemy base.
With 30 minutes remaining before exiting hyperspace, the Tie pilots should be at their fighters running system checks. With 5 minutes remaining before exiting hyperspace, the Tie pilots should be in their fighters getting last minute pre-battle orders. As soon as the ships exited hyperspace, those fighters should be leaving the docking bay. Within 30 seconds the Tie fighters squadrons should have been forming up around the ships. Within 120 seconds, the Tie Fighters should all have left their hangar, formed up, and attacking the enemy or screening the ships from enemy fighters.
The First Order's crews should have been running pre-battle checks on shields, weapons, and point defence turrets. They should have been activated before exiting hyperspace. As soon as the ships exited hyperspace they should be scanning for enemy ships/fighters. As soon as they detected them they should be tracking them. As soon as any ships or fighters entered range they should be firing upon them.
The Resistance only had a single squadron of fighters and a single squadron of bombers... none of them should have survived the attack on the dreadnought... RJ's editors never added any weapons fire from the ships despite the fact their weapons were activated and they were in range. RJ did not edit out the order by Hux to fire on the bombers. D'oh!
By the time "Vice-Admiral" Holdo takes control, Poe lost his entire Squadron... Kylo Ren's Torpedoes destroyed them. He was demoted because he lost all of those people... but... it doesn't make sense to lord it over him when his actions later proved to be correct... but hey, bad writing is bad writing, you can't do anything about it other than pretend the writer was competent.
@@thorskywalker Hey Thor, just wanted to make it clear this was just friendly criticism, I think you have one of the more objective views of star wars as a whole. I just think the whole star battle was done poorly in the movie and Poe was chastised more for gender politics rather than what actually happening on screen. The bombers were slow, and were out already when Poe called them in. I dont understand how they would have possibly had time to get back.
Poe is one of those characters where the presentation and the actual events contradict eachother. The story is telling us that Poe makes irrational decisions that get people killed for no reason (maybe not to that extreme but given the way Holdo seems to be more than happy to put him in his place, I get the distinct impression that she sees it that way). Poe "recklessly" flying into Starkiller Base saved the galaxy since that thing was going to fire on another star-system. Poe "recklessly" taking out the dreadnaught saved the rebellion since that 'fleet killer' would have also followed the tracker and destoyed the rebellion. Poe's "reckless" joint code-breaker plan only failed because some randon BB-EVIL saw through Finn's retarded idea of a disguise for BB-8. The hilarious part is that after his ark, he decides to not take out Death Star Cannon Junior because it's too dangerous at a moment where the only reason they got into those half-broken speeders was to make a last ditch suicide run to take it out. He is literally the only rational person when script is trying to tell he's not and then becomes the most irrational person when his ark is complete.
Basically the main problem of Poe's arc in TLJ
I love these longer character assessments. Poe had a fair amount of potential. One thing that I really don’t like is how unbelievably good he is as a pilot. He’s pulling stuff off that Luke and Anakin could never pull off. He makes Anakin, the best pilot in the Galaxy look like a learner driver. He defies that universes physics, let alone ours. On at least a few occasions, most notably on the attack on SKB he’s going in a straight line at top speed, and within a metres he’s done a full 45 degree turn at top speed. How? He pilots like how a kid plays with their LEGO X-wings.
BuT hE gRew Up NeAR a FoRcE trEe! ThAT meAns He Is fOrCe SeNsiTiVe!
To quote Han Solo “that’s not how the force works”
I've always found it odd that Poe has no idea what the chain of command seems to be. When Holdo is named as the new leader, not only does he seems disappointed that he wasn't the next in line, but he also has no idea what Holdo looked like. An organization that small really has no reason that a military commander in it doesn't know the other leadership but where he is in the command structure.
None of the 3 - Rey, Finn, Poe - are well developed. They're two-dimensional. You could replace Finn's entire backstory as a Stormtrooper kidnapped and indoctrinated as a child and barely have to rewrite anything about his character. He just acts like a typical guy they ran into and could have any backstory. His history doesn't matter at all nor is reflected in his character. Poe is just generic pilot character. And Rey is a cardboard good guy. What does she want? What are the flaws that she must overcome? What are her personal reasons for joining the Resistance? The movies barely skim the surface of anything other than telling us "she's a good guy, she fights evil." The closest to a character in the entire trilogy so far is Kylo and he's even had moments of being a cartoon villain.
Well said. These are not good characters. And there is simply zero story or continuity or logic to any of this. They should have used George's sequel scripts - with his actual plot and proper new characters that he envisaged.
Im going to admit, I was quite young when I saw The Force Awakens. I will also admit that I enjoyed it when I first saw it, largely because I was part of the 'target audience': Children old enough to have seen Star Wars and to understand what was happening but too young to discover the severely flawed characters and unfortunately disappointing writing. One thing that I never realized until somewhat more recently, i.e. when TLJ came out, was that Poe is a main character. It had never before occurred to me that he was. I personally think that he's the best of the three. He's talented, eager, and generally good-hearted, But he's had too little screen-time. This was also before I really began to realize the PC overtones in the movie, which has now become a turn off from me ever rewatching the Disney Trilogy films. I think that Poe is a character that has incredible potential, and I think TLJ wanted to explore this, but his lack of background in the previous film did not set his character up for success. I generally felt bad for him during the Holdo regime onboard the Raddus, and I believe what he did to be totally justified.
Poe Dameron: An excellent pilot that loses an X-Wing every movie
I thought Poe was pretty cool until TLJ, and his X-Wing scenes were pretty cool. Especially the scene at the discount cantina when he blasted half a dozen tie fighters in seconds.
He's a beast of a pilot and I was expecting more characterization to go along with it.
He's just a wasted character like Finn. This entire trilogy just doesn't want to develop anyone or they just regress characters.
in the trailer for the new movie Rey is flying everything. They never gave poe shit to do
It's pretty clear what happened to Poe in TLJ. It's the same thing that happened to Ackbar, Leia, Luke, Snoke, and everyone else: *Rian Johnson's first draft*
Just had a conversation with some people about Poe's 'development' in the first two movies, and you've said everything that I was trying to. Poe has next to no real development in TLJ, and everything that he was in TFA was completely taken apart. And the decisions that were made provided no merit to redeem himself, it didn't turn him into a better character. It simply made no sense. It still boggles my mind that people really enjoyed TLJ when there were narrative decisions made like these.
The problem here is that PO did not get these soldiers killed at all. Leia is the one who gave the order to confront the first order and then she said to back off. As a commanding officer you should know how your fleet inside and out. Those bombers weren't going anywhere fast and there's no way they would have escaped anyway. Leia made the wrong call and Poe cleaned up her mess
Poe still is my favorite sequel trilogy character. But then again i love my X-wing aces
I know the movie played the outcome of that battle to destroy the dreadnought as Poe being hot headed, and the mission being a failure due to the casualties, but I've got to disagree with every character who thinks that. He lead a limited strike force against a dreadnought and destroyed it at a very limited cost (a dozen or so fighters, maybe a little more and a few bombers), that dreadnought alone though represented thousands of times the industrial effort and manpower to build and crew than the losses the Resistance suffered. If the Resistance is so heavily outnumbered, outgunned and completely unable to replace its losses as to still consider the attritional losses of of a battle with a casualty ratio that lopsided as, at best, a pyrrhic victory then its lost the war already.
The only two other reasons I can think of for why Poe win is so scorned is either 1) the Resistance isn't committed to the fight and are unwilling to take any casualties, i.e. Starkiller Base did what it was intended to do and broke their moral and they shouldn't even bother fighting any more in that case, or 2) Leia and Holdo are angry he disobeyed orders, which is something that needs to be dealt with by being clear just how much authority the on site battlefield commander has to carry out his mission, and that's a "we need to have a discussion behind closed doors" problem that needs to be hammered out and have any ass chewing done in, not a "you're demoted, consider yourself lucky your not being sent to the brig" problem.
My bowel movements have more character than the new Star Wars characters lol
I like Poe, he really needs to have a better character arc in TROS, him and Finn could have been a big asset in the last Jedi. But, I hope we can see more of that in a few weeks!
The throw away character who would start the story of the map that Luke left to make sure no one could find him so he could just die. Great stuff.
Lol 😂
I NEED to see a dog fight between Poe the "best pilot ever" and Kylo Ren aka the son of Han and Grandson of Anakin, two legendary pilots. Perhaps that would give a cool action scene in episode 9 and a way for Poe to serve a purpose.
“As memorable as Lor San Tekka” 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
We do find out how Poe escaped Jakku, but it's in Lego Force Awakens. They actually used that Lego game to explain several pieces of TFA backstory, like how Han got the rathtars, how 3PO got his red arm, a bit of backstory on Lor San Tekka, and how Kylo found out that the map to Luke was in Tekka's possession. When a Lego game is how you choose explain important elements of your movie's story, you have a problem.
Wasn't part of his story that he was conceived on Endor after ROTJ?
So he's a space boomer?
I think you hit the nail on the head with the remarks about consistency. Putting aside the lack of character development in the new trilogy, a big problem has been that their characters also aren't consistent. It feels like we're watching different people that just happened to look the same and have the same name. Instead of being a single story told in three parts it seems more like an anthology of tales
No one:
TS at the beginning of his videos: *Now* ........
I feel like these movies could have made really interesting and good use of Flashback scenes, in order to create a backstory, for example showing Kylo at the temple not fitting in, then causing the destruction of it, Luke going to Poe’s family, obviously not having a flashback for every character, but just key components to tie things up and add actual character to our characters lol
Where does someone like Poe even get the majority of his flight experience? He is to young to have been in the Rebellion.
Maybe his mother and or wedge antilles taught him
Is it possible that Poe's "hothead" quality came about _as a result_ of taking out Starkiller Base and losing a bunch of friends in the process?
Tbh poes motivations in last jedi arent bad
Wow this trilogy really sucks on every level
Poe is honestly my favorite out of the new trilogy, him and Kylo
It's a little troubling that there are people who think this 'sequel' trilogy is actually good.
Yes! Condemn those people to hell for having their very own opinion not intertwined by modern-day fanbases and media! Fuck them right to hell!
Oh wait.
Thor Skywalker, I have a ideas as to how Rey could be so powerful.
This 4 day weekend I rewatched attack of the clones and a few episodes of the clones wars.
I'm always surprised how much goes under the nose of the grand master Jedis. How they can't see stuff coming and can't tell what going on around the gallery.
I know most of this is because Darth sidious is clouding the force, but I also think back to when mace windo ask Yoda "Do you think it's time to tell the console our ability to use the force has deminish?"
Many Star wars fans have theory's as to why their ability to use the force diminished. Some say it was because an unbalance, way too many light side users and not many dark side users, so they because weak.
Other's believe it was because the Jedi became too much about following their own rules, their own thoughts, and own *wills* and not the will of the force.
Either way, my theory is maybe part of the reason Rey is so powerful is *#1* because there isn't that many light side users as before, *#2* She doesn't follow any rules of an old religion, *#3* she may have considered that voice in her head her whole life to be her conscience, only now to realise it's more than a desert illusion, *#4* she doesn't hold herself back from using the force, she has no problem using the light side, or the power from the dark.
And *#5* she was born/created to be this powerful, from the hands of Vader, Luke, and Darth sidious. She was designed to be the most powerful.
I think with all of these combined, there's a chance to redeem the unexplained power she has.
Looking forward to your episode 9 review, I hope it's a good movie that can explain and redeem this trilogy; I might get a chance to see it Christmas day.
You know star wars has hit rock bottom when the only character I care about at this point is BB-8.
Why is it that in the movies we got little to know backstory about Wedge Antilles yet he is very popular with the fans
What if JJ didn’t listen to Oscar Issac and not write him back into 7 after the tie fighter crash? This way his character wouldn’t have been wasted in episode 8.
What if Rian Johnson had a great episode 8 script, that’s why Poe didn’t go with Finn? Rian wrote Poe back into the script because JJ decided to listen to Oscar Isaac and let his character live
The ad in the middle was a budget insurance ad. Lady detective holds up a file with star wars written on it. Male detective looks and says "star wars, that doesn't make any sense". Ad finishes, Thor says "which doesn't make sense". Seems like everyone knows in Oz now.😉
Oh, great. More backstory that isn't explained in the films. Wa, wa, waaaaaa, Disney.
I believe the message was supposed to be about Poe not always taking a big risk and instead knowing when to retreat or something like that. Still wouldn't make sense when Rose keeps Finn from sacrificing himself like Holdo did for them, but at least the character arc is more consistent at first.
hey nice video
Hey, thank you.
Will you be making a video on Rose? It would be short, but amusing.
The trilogy would have been better if he had died, and Rey and Finn started a budding relationship. Not *good*, but better.
Poe could have been a great character but TLJ happened and the rise of something will make it worse for the characters.
The thing is, Poe does feel regret/loss for the pilots under his command during the attack on the Dreadnought. We get that scene when Poe sees Paige's bomber complete the mission but fall into the explosion and you can see the regret on his face. And he then calls all those lost heroes, telling us that he wanted to honor their sacrifice.
Honestly, I don't think anyone will be able to explain the Holdo vs. Poe plotline of TLJ because I think that Rian Johnson just made it up as he went along. There is a scene just prior to the Supremacy coming out of hyperspace when Leia explains the plan to Finn on the bridge, and Poe is just feet from Finn (off screen) but then when Holdo takes command, Poe asks what the plan is? So either Rian Johnson forgot that Poe was right there within hearing distance of Leia, or Poe was asking if the plan had changed with a new commander and new circumstances (probably the most reasonable theory), or Holdo was just an idiot and a terrible commander who's only purpose was to make Poe look foolish and to add 'forced' tension into the plot.
The sequel trilogy is so bad that the wanna sprite cranberry commercial is better than it
The sequel trilogy is so bad I actually miss Jar Jar Binks...............🤔
*"NUFF SAID"*
Just thinking about two years ago in this exact same spot before a brand spanking new Star Wars movie and I can't remember ANY negativity from the fandom. Lots of Mike Zeroh speculation and excitement to be had at every turn. Crazy when you think about it. It really was a turning point. This all comes down to the powers that be and the people they put in charge with this property. I never thought there'd be a day that I felt ambivalent about more Star Wars.
Instead holdo if Poe would have taken over and led the resistance to survival it would have done wonders for the character in terms of development
What I liked about the original trilogy was that the main characters were not even that high within the hierarchy of the rebel alliance. Luke commanded a squadron, Han and Lando were generals, and Leia was still a princess, but they had an overall commander in Hoth and were not even part of the leadership that decided the attack on Death Star II, or that had the briefing about it. It felt like these characters, although very important to us, were actually ancillary to a much larger story. People seem to forget, but Luke’s battle with Vader and Palpatine was important to him, to his personal journey, but it didn’t change much the course of the rebellion. With or without the duel, the Death Star, Vader and Palpatine would all be destroyed. It meant that Luke didn’t single handily defeated the empire, but many other pilots (Lando, Wedge etc) did.In the sequel trilogy, we have no idea how the command structure works and who’s important or not. It’s a mess.
And he was the only new character I actually liked after the force awakens...
That idea for Poe and Finn going to get the fuel together is a great idea. It could show Poe at the ship torn over the need to return the fuel to the fleet and save Finn. The scene could then go to show Poe's ship leaving and bring the scene back to Finn. At the last moment Poe would save Finn, revealing Poe had left BB8 to fly the ship and fuel back to the resistance.
All the missed potential makes me sad.
Poe so good as a pilot he should be force sensitive.
Finn - best first order trooper, also broke his “mind control”
Clearly he should be Force sensitive
Poe - super great pilot so good you question during TFA if he has the force.
Clearly he should be force sensitive.
They could have had all three protagonist be force sensitive starting a new order
That would have been interesting.
So while they didn't know The First Order could track them through lightspeed, but had Poe not destroyed the Dreadnaught, it only would have chased them through lightspeed and it would have been a problem then with the added back up of The Supremacy, and the rest of the fleet they brought, there was no chance they get the bombers to it to destroy it and the fleet would have been slaughtered, so whether they knew it or not, Poe being reckless actually gave them a fighting chance and the bombers they lost didn't die for nothing.
4 minutes in and I can't help thinking if they spent time planning rather than spewing out films, they could've had cinematic greats that surpass the OT on their hands but what's done is done and we need (forgive the pun) A New Hope 😆
Poe was the character I was most excited about. A cool, friendly guy that is Leia’s most trusted pilot. Leia has known many great pilots, and she considered Poe her best. Poe wasn’t just a commander. He was a Wing Commander! He was in charge of the Resistance’s fighter squadrons. Poe was great in his comic series, and that was based solely on the way he was portrayed in TFA. TLJ did him wrong.
Ok for the record, I have to point out that Poe didn't get anyone killed in TLJ. That designation actually lies on Holdo's head. To explain and understand that, one has to be at least passingly familiar with organized military and chain of command. At some point, someone in the fleet put in a requisition order for bombers because they didn't have them. That ether went up the chain of command for approval and then was sent over to whoever was in charge of the motor pool, or that was handed down directly from the top to the motor pool.
From there, they would have contacted weapons manufactures for model options. We clearly see in the same movie that they in fact do have dedicated manufactures that are on some kind of pay roll and that these bombers weren't just some kind of impossibly bad salvage job. Those manufactures would have sent out specs to them to look over for selection and approval. From those options, the motor pool would have handed the list up and made recommendations.
Here's the important part that has to be understood here. Holdo worked directly under Lea who was the head of this organized military organization. The higher that list passed through command, the more responsibility each individual had to take any units suggested in that list, and remove them and in this particular case, for not being combat ready. Working directly under Lea, at some point that list passed through her hands directly on it's way up. Holdo was directly responsible for those death trap bombers being in the fleet.
Now, we need to recognize what Poe's role is in an organized military. As we can see from the first death star briefing, Poe holds about the same rank and role as Luke does. Note: Luke is not the one planning the mission. He's receiving orders and not the other way around. The entire mission in the beginning of TLJ was produced under the premise that they knew the threat they were under and all the resources they had were being thrown at it just like the death star runs. As they acknowledge, this particular type of star destroyer is a fleet killer. So in essence, this mission is yet again another run on another death star so to speak. In every instance of trying to destroy the death stars and any fleets surrounding them, they incurred heavy losses. Luke wasn't court marshaled, busted down in rank, or anything of that nature was he? No, he was given a medal for his bravery, valor, and efforts. What happened to Poe? He was just short of being tossed into the brig all the while Holdo intentionally kept vital plans from her own crew and otherwise military. Compare that to how Lea and generals handled Hoth for example. Those on Hoth were informed of evacuation plans and randevu locations. They weren't withheld vital information for their escape.
When properly examined Holdo goes from being in any way shape or form a redeeming character of any kind, to being an incompetent leader and coward who put the blame for her own mistakes on Poe and would have doomed all of them to die if it wasn't for the sheer dumb luck of those who ether left the fleet to do something productive or the one person who was for them that wasn't even in on her plan to begin with. Poe was not at fault for anything or anyone. Holdo is distinctly at fault for all the losses.
I don´t even need to watch this video. Reading the title and everything is said, just on point!
Thank you for pointing out the senseless inconsistencies of Poe in TLJ. I love Poe, but it was clear that Ryan Johnson had no idea what to do with him. Even if JJ was improvising his survival, I still think it was the right call, since it gives the audience a more character-driven investment in the fighter battles. And since fighter battles are an area where IMHO the prequel trilogy was extremely weak, I definitely want to see the sequels nail them. Poe helps them do that, but it's otherwise clear that nobody really has any idea where his character is going, so I can't really speculate on his fate in Ep9.
In his defense, though, I don't think Poe's recklessness in Ep8 is for lacking compassion. Rather I think he is over-focused on the big picture, the "hypothetical" good impact of what he's doing, to the point of neglecting the cost that's right in front of him. In that sense, he shares the same character flaw that Yoda criticizes in Luke, not paying enough attention to where he is in the moment. But, it was still badly done. People familiar with the books and comics have noted that Poe already had the "be less reckless" lesson taught to him once or twice before, so retreading it again after Starkiller Base, and in such a gross extreme, only serves to undermine his character.
Holdo is just a bad leader, period. For all her flowery speeches, she has a complete disregard for morale, expecting the conduct of people who just follow orders, not people who believe in the cause and will therefore ask questions. Her style of leadership is both contrary to what the Resistance is, and somehow, contradictory to herself. The only thing that keeps me from calling her an elitist is how easily she forgave Poe for mutiny. Her character is just all over the place.
He’s my favorite sequel character. I just find him really charming, and his relationship with Finn. I hate what they did to him (and everyone else) in Episode VIII.
This video kinda made me realize how much of a psychopath Poe seems to be in TLJ. I think if they explored his past a little more, maybe have a scene where he talks about how his parents were murdered by the First Order, then perhaps his urge to throw as many punches as he can against the enemy would feel more justified and sympathetic.
Basically Poe is Wedge Antilles except he hangs around in the scene after he's supposed to leave.