Thank you for watching! This is a video that I've been working on for a while and I'm really happy with how it's turned out. Really interested to hear your perspective though in terms of if you agree or disagree and if there's anything you think I've missed here. I'd be very open to doing a debate on this topic too if anyone is keen (you can email me at ethan@ethanbensonyt.com if you want to take up the opposing side).
Any morality without God is completely arbitrary because without God there can be no objective standards for anything because God is all-knowing and we are not.
This is ridiculous. Of course you can have moral standards without religion. Have you simply ignored the past 500 years of philosophy? The problem as far as I can tell here is that you are asserting that your God is an objective moral standard, which completely ignores that there are also other Gods to choose from. Which one is correct is entirely subjective if you are to be a theist so you still end up with the same problem as not having a God. (And even then, as I have alluded to in this video, when you pick a religion you still have to wrestle with the moral contradictions within it). Surely basing morality in things such as human suffering is a far better system which doesn’t require supernatural presuppositions. And it also doesn’t require defending things like slavery and the murder of innocent women and children, which you are implicitly doing by defending Christianity as an objective moral standard.
@@ethanbenson philosophy is completely worthless without objective moral standards to build off of without objective moral standards your favorite philosophy matters as much as your favorite ice cream flavor objectively speaking. also just because many fictional gods exist does not mean there are no real gods an uncountable amount of fictional humans exist but that doesn't mean humans aren't real and you figure out what humans are real or fake based off evidence just like with God. And if we have no reason to exist why should human suffering matter sure humans don't like to suffer but that doesn't make it bad objectively so objectively speaking why should we care about human suffering.
@@izzymosley1970 so what’s your objective proof of God then? Why is your God real and all the others make believe? And even then, supposing you are a Christian, how do you explain the change in the moral disposition of Christianity through the centuries? For example, I assume things like slavery and the things I outlined here aren’t things you think are moral, yet many Christians for centuries used your “objective” standard to justify these things. If you feel particularly strongly though, I do invite you on to have a debate, we’ll livestream it so I can’t edit it, and go back and forth on these sorts of topics. My email is ethanbensonyt@gmail.com, send me an email and we’ll make it happen.
@@ethanbenson my proof that the Christian God is real is a historical argument for the resurrection of Jesus first of all we know that Jesus was real from non-biblical sources like Josephus and tacticas we also know that Jesus died from crucifixion and then after that his followers became convinced that he rose from the dead so convinced in fact they were willing to die as martyrs and also the tomb where Jesus was buried was found empty despite the fact that to him was heavily guarded if you doubt anything I'm saying I encourage you to look into it yourself.
@@izzymosley1970 I have looked into this argument before. I personally don’t really think it holds weight, but again, would love to discuss further in a spoken format, I think it’s easier for us to go back and forth that way and try to find some common ground
there is something greater than me- that keeps me humble enough to keep learning lessons in all areas of my life- hopefully not repeating the same lessons , always growing/changing- i believe somebody or something is looking out for me provided im living clean decently- lowering my expectations of others & raising my own- THX U 4 sharing your life/mind not expecting to win popularity contest nor do u think ur owed anything u dont work for- living ur way in2 gd thinking PEACE MR
The children of God see and understand their God, Satan turns his children into fools they believe that they don't have to understand to judge the God who made the sun to rise in the morning or the moon at night. These vain and slaves to Satan will inherent hell with Satan
@@ethanbensonJust found your channel. At least Satan didn't throw a tantrum and drown millions of innocent beings,am I right? Gonna go watch more of your vids. You fight right in with the others I watch.
You are actually very wrong. First many of the things you mentioned are OT laws, they are not applicable. Second, most nations around Israel at that time were pagan and thus engaged in child sacrifice; most laws were meant to deter Israel from ever doing anything like that (hence why they should not turn to idols because the people worshipping idols would sacrifice their kids to those idols if not worse). Second, in a lot of cases, slavery was very different back then. Especially in the Roman times many people would sell themselves off to settle debts. You can read more about this in "The Greco-Roman world" by James Jeffers. Socially, an imperial slave was actually higher in rank than your average citizen. So if you are a poor free citizen... you were better off selling yourself to the emperor... But for the average slave, many masters actually freed them and them re-employed them as freed citizens (or noncitizens) with payed wages. New Testament also teaches that if you are a slave (in 1 corinthians) it is good if you can become free and that masters should never beat their slaves, but treat them with respect. Deuteronomy is taken out of context: God doesnt tell them they should eat their kids, but that the siege will be so severe that famine will set in and some of them will probably start eating their kids. Isaiah is also taken out of context: the assyrians were marching against them, they were basically at war. In jewish law, killing and murder are different. Killing was legal (seen as an act of self defense such as shooting a robber who tries to slit your throat) which is the case in Isaiah. Murder was and still is illegal. 2 Kings also does not say nor imply that the bears were sent by God, just that Elisha cursed the boys and then some bears showed up. Was it God or simply them being in the woods? We don't know. Christianity is also not just in western hemisphere; its alive and booming in China too. One more thing: people are awful on both sides. Some major crimes were done in the atheist circle too - such as communism in NK which is an atheist state. In fact, most communist countries outlawed Christianity because it was a THREAT to them. Now for the argument about the OT: the Old Testament is given not only as a recording of how God was present with the Israelites everywhere but also because the OT is a historical record. (now there might be some debates about Genesis being accurate or not and all of that stuff and I'll be honest; I dont know if Genesis is 100% true or if some things were metaphorical). Just summing up 1000 years of history in 3 paragraphs is a bit disrespectful, dont you think? Not to mention Isaiah (for example) is chock full of relevant prophecies about the coming of Jesus, all of which are necessary for the New Testament. Jesus also says that ALL the law is summed up in "love the Lord thy God and love thy neighbour". Jewish law also made a distinction between killing and murder. Killing was legal and moral because it was an act of self defence (such as shooting a robber if he tries to stab you or something). Murder is illegal.
Ok, this is a lot to respond to in one comment, but here goes. If you'd like to actually talk about this, I'd be really keen to set up a debate where we can go back and forth on these things. 1. As I mentioned in the video, Jesus directly says a couple of times that he is not abolishing the OT laws. 2. You say the surrounding nations were evil and sacrificing children, yet what about stories like that of Isaac? Even if we do accept what you're saying, do you not think that the laws presented in this video are still pretty messed up? I mean, really, stoning people to death for working on a Sunday? 3. On your comments about slavery, you aren't referring to slaves. What you are talking about is indentured servants. In the quote I gave in the video, the part immediately preceding it deals with this. Indentured servants were able to come from within Israel, slaves were not. Slaves could only be foreign, and are exactly like the slaves we think of when the word is used. They were absolutely used as work horses to complete grueling labour for barely any food or water. These people were treated as property. Jesus saying to not treat them completely awfully doesn't really take away from those conditions. 4. In terms of the famine, who created the famine? Who has the power to make them not have to eat their children? 5. With the bears, it's pretty clearly God's doing. They are called upon in the name of the Lord. "And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them." 6. I know that Christianity isn't just a thing in the wast, but this video is made for the people who will watch it, who are primarily in the west. I'm also responding to the commentators who I have seen who have said that in particular, western society would be better if more people became Christian. 7. The way you treat it as if there are only Christian or Atheist states is pretty silly. North Korea isn't really an atheistic state at all. In many ways, Kim Jong Un is their God. The people are more or less taught he is a divine being. To claim people like him, or Stalin or Mao (I want to say before you bring up Hitler, he was Catholic. He is quoted as saying this. The first agreement he signed was with the Catholic Church which is a large part of why he was able to come into power) did what they did for reasons that have nothing to do with Atheism. It has more to do with their economic beliefs or their desire for power. Nobody is going to war for Atheism. They have, on the other hand, gone to war for religion, and we can see over in the Middle East in particular, that people are still willing to do this. You talk about them banning Christianity, well I mean, Christianity itself has a ban on people believing anything else, which I noted in the video. In theory, you must kill everyone who doesn't believe and the fact you haven't means that your entire city deserves to burn, with everyone in it being killed. I highlighted the relevant quotes in the video. Of course, nobody does this because it's completely evil. 8. In terms of the relevance of the Old Testament, I completely agree and that's partly the point I made in the video as to why it does count. All of that stuff is clearly important given it has been included. Therefore, I think we must also acknowledge that the moral assertions made in it are to be taken seriously. 9. The killing vs murder thing is fine, I'm not sure I quite see the relevance here. Most of what I talked about was the punishment for people committing very minor crimes (some of which are the foundation of our economic systems, I mean, worship of idols and coveting sounds very much like Capitalism to me). In saying that, I don't think that is very relevant when it comes to the wars in the Old Testament which in many cases are ordered and aided by God. As I mentioned in the video, that's a choice that did not have to be made. And even if we say it did, the murder of innocent women and children certainly is hard to justify, even in warfare. These are innocent bystanders and God commands their death.
@@ethanbenson yo even though jesus did not come to abolish the ot laws it doesnt mean that they are still applicable. The moment he died on the cross he cleared away our sins and God is willing to forgive us so long as we repent so even though that Jesus did not abolish the laws, those laws still dont hold because he died on the cross for all our sins making him our advocate in the lord when we sin.
@@houseofcrazyentertainment7025 I get what you mean, but I think it's kind of wishful thinking. The forgiveness of sins has nothing to do with the laws and the punishments on earth for them. Perhaps in the divine sense we are forgiven, but in the physical? Nothing changes. Even if that was the intention, then there would be no moral standard for the Bible to judge anything as all sin has the ability to be forgiven, therefore doing anything is ok, including any number of horrible acts as long as you're sorry. But then maybe the idea is you must be genuinely sorry. But then, this clearly isn't something that the church has believed for very long. I'm not so sure that all those people killed in the Crusades or the Inquisition on the basis of being evil sinners had much time to repent for their sins of happening to be born in a place where Christianity wasn't common. I think this is very much a modern, very charitable interpretation and I get why it seems appealing, but I don't think it holds weight when considering its implications.
@@ethanbenson man you're dwelling too much on the past. God is a merciful God and he will forgive us for our sins when we repent and these punishments will not come against us. It was only then that he made all these rules to make sure people were straight with him, God is good all the time and his way of thinking is beyond ours.
Why repent for committing these sins though? Why repent for working on a Sunday? Or coveting? Or for having people in your town who believe in other Gods? Or worshiping idols? These are all fundamental to our modern way of life. Coveting and worshipping idols could be argued to be essential elements of capitalism. Given you have admitted that these laws do still exist in Christianity and Jesus didn’t remove them, you’re saying we must repent for them.
Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’[a] 31 The second is this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[b] There is no commandment greater than these.” Without God, life is meaningless in atheism we die and nothing happens. That is not a way to live.
This is a done to death talking point. What moral standards? Well clearly just as arbitrary ones as you given you too pick and choose which parts of the bible you adhere to. I literally talk about this in the video. At least I can be logically consistent in my ethics while you, as a result of this picking and choosing fundamentally cannot.
@@franknwogu4911 a quote from the bible to justify belief in the Bible? That sounds airtight. Plenty of people find meaning without the Bible. I live a very happy fulfilling life which I honestly think is just as virtuous if not more so than your average Christian
@@ethanbenson Where do I pick and chose my morality from the Bible? I listen to Jesus, who is the law. How are you consistent on your ethics? Justify your ethics?
Now I'm back, here's what I have to say 1. Please dont insult the bible by calling it "barbaric" that's disrespectful to the people that wrote it 2. These rules that you mentioned that are punishable by death, some are changed. Through Jesus christ most of these things you have mentioned have been cancelled out and if I was to judge by what I saw all of these laws (except from the one which was in mark )you said were from the old testament. The old testament was full of strict laws that were to never be broken and if so you die but through the birth of Jesus they were forgiven. If one should commit these crimes that you have listed then, divine judgement will have come upon them but if one now should commit those crimes, God has given us the opportunity to be able to repent and be with God. So you saying those rules are punishable by death is not quite correct in the sense that we can repent for our sins and God will accept us. You say working on sunday gets you payed more but it was stated in the bible that we should keep the sabbath day holy. It's a rule, we are meant to follow it because it's a rule. If you are in work there are layed down rules in which you have to follow and if you break them you get sacked so you dont break them so why cant you just obey this simple and basic rule? If you can obey other earthly rules set by humans then you should also be able to obey the rules of God who made us. And once again most of these rules you are talking about are RULES OF OLDEN TIMES Jesus came to pay the ultimate price for us so as long as we repent God is willing to forgive us (I will emphasise on this point a lot of times so please bare with me). Another thing is that yes, these laws should be punishable by death so to make sure nobody breaks them. At work if you make certain mistakes like setting the building on fire you can get sacked. These sins are generally actually worse than setting a building on fire to God. 3. In the term of slavery, the way God put it if you actually read further, it says if they SELL THEMSELVES, meaning it was the slaves choice to become a slave. God did not say that one should go and forcefully make people slaves and it even says that if your brother should make himself a slave to you, do not treat him as one and if you actually read Ephesians 6:9 it clearly states that Masters of slaves should not threaten their slaves and they should have a good attitude towards them, and if you read a little above that passage it literally says that there are blessings for doing good work either as a slave or not so the aspect of slavery in which you are referring to is very different to wat God was talking about. Ad the reason God will not discern slavery is because it was actually a choice that mankind chose and God has given us freedom of choice and decision but he made sure that one is not to treat their slave lowly. 4. I understand where you come from saying that the morals should be adopted but the bible teaches us good character better than any law or standard that anyone can come up with. You're saying that we should extract the only good morals in the bible, but that will not change the fact that these morals are from the bible. Removing the roots of a plant will kill the fruit and what you are trying to say is that we should remove the root where these morals came from. If that is done then they will have no meaning they will just be everyday standards without any value to add to our lives except for making them peaceful. But if it is in the bible then it is meant to guide us through life, teach us good habits and morals and at the end of the day if we follow the rules of the bible we will make it to heaven. What I'm trying to say is that if you take these rules out of the bible them they just become normal standards without any punishment if you dont follow them. But the fact that they are in the bible means that we have to follow them or else there will be divine punishment and God doesnt want that for us. 4. Your concept on church is quite wrong. A lot of churches give to the poor. My church gives to the poor, Jesus said we should help those in need so that is a law we have to follow and those who do not follow these laws are not doing as Jesus instructed them to do. Dont think that all churches are the same just because some churches are doing the wrong thing, that's very stereotypical. Another thing, please do not insult God that is disrespectful to us believers so mind your language. Once again you are talking about things God did in the old testament and please check numbers 21:6-9 because what you wrote is absolutely wrong God never gave reward for killing any woman there. Let me explain something to you: during that period of time humanity had pretty much turned it's back against God and they started doing all manner of sin and rubbish and this was why God actually sent the flood but even as humanity was turning away from God there were still some people who yearned for God and those were his servants. So God had to put very strict rules to make the people stop sinning. You say that God is a mass murderer but my question for you is this: he made us so why cant he take back our lives? These lives of ours are actually his so him killing people because they did not adhere to his rule is his choice. But even you said that these are things that he did in the OLD TESTAMENT and most of them were to protect the ones who were righteous to him and to try and correct other. You saying that God is a murderer is die to the fact you dont know how mankind used to sin back in those days. It was said that mankind sinned so much that God actually regretted making mankind. So please dont think about the genocide part because what some of those people did they actually deserved the punishment that came for them. The reason why he cant control the events is that because if he did so then it means that he isnt giving mankind freedom of choice, hes just making everything how he wants it to be. He loves us so much that he allows us to have freedom to do all we want but mankind abused that freedom leading to le loss of lives of innocent people. But even in all the se situations God made us a promise that he will always be with us. The only reason in which these people were actually less than the Israelites was because they did not have their faith in God. If they did then their situation will have turned out differently. 5. Bro the old testament is important because it teaches us the consequences of living our lives the wrong way but it doesnt mean that every little sin we commit leads to instant death, all the punishments mentioned in the old testament still stand because if we commithise sins and we dont repent then we will face death. But as long as we repent God is willing to take us with open arms. The fact that Jesus is not changing anything doesnt mean that he is going to just let us die, that's why he took our place and died on the cross. The old testament is important but those laws are to make sure we dont sinso please dont see it as Jesus did not come to change anything alone, he also came to add things that will make our holy and physical lives better. Nothing is contradicting itself, it's just that you dont have the full grasp of the knowledge of the word of God. God brought jesus to earth to add a better way of redemption so you are right, he isnt changing anything he said in the old testament, but he added things to what he said so the word of God is still flawless. And I just want to bring to your attention that there are a lot of false teachings out there and that is one of the signs of the end times drawing near. The bible is flawless but the way people read it and understand it makes it look like there are actually issues in it but there arennt. If we stand for the bible to be adopted into the modern society, yes we want all of it to be adapted and none of it to be left out because it takes intense reading and meditation to be able to understand the word of God properly. The bible does place standards in place for Christians and all that worship God because God does not want us to go to helll but heaven.
But bro I just want you to know that even after all that you have said God still loves you equally and he will never stop loving you even if you say all these things about him. Apostle Paul was worse than you yet God still used him to spread the Gospel. God is willing to take you in with open arms anytime even when you are in the lowest part of life, dont forget this.
Hey man, this is a really long comment, I’ve read through it, but I really don’t think responding to it here will be awfully fruitful as we can go back and forth like this forever and that’s just wasting both of our time. I’d love to have you on though to talk about this as more of a discussion/debate if you’d be open to that. Can just send me an email if you’re down, it’s on the pinned comment. I think that would be a better way to discuss this and be able to get somewhere and would also be a way to make both of our points easier to get through for others.
The Messiah is returning (1 Thessalonians 4: 13 - 18). “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do, he will do also; and greater works than these he will do; because I go to the Father”(John 14:12). Watch: “THE TREMENDOUS TESTIMONY OF THE POWERFUL BLOOD OF JESUS IN THE STORAGE HOUSE” on Repent & Prepare the way. Amen
People have been saying this since the middle ages at least. You know how often they've been right? 0% of the time. The quote you gave also has little to do with it.
Thank you for watching! This is a video that I've been working on for a while and I'm really happy with how it's turned out. Really interested to hear your perspective though in terms of if you agree or disagree and if there's anything you think I've missed here. I'd be very open to doing a debate on this topic too if anyone is keen (you can email me at ethan@ethanbensonyt.com if you want to take up the opposing side).
Please what is your email address?
It's not bringing it out
@@houseofcrazyentertainment7025it says it in the comment dude
@@ethanbenson sorry, is it a gmail address because I cant seem to get it through
@@houseofcrazyentertainment7025 It's registered through google yeah. An alternate email is ethanbensonyt@gmail.com
@@ethanbenson alright imma hit you up
Any morality without God is completely arbitrary because without God there can be no objective standards for anything because God is all-knowing and we are not.
This is ridiculous. Of course you can have moral standards without religion. Have you simply ignored the past 500 years of philosophy?
The problem as far as I can tell here is that you are asserting that your God is an objective moral standard, which completely ignores that there are also other Gods to choose from. Which one is correct is entirely subjective if you are to be a theist so you still end up with the same problem as not having a God. (And even then, as I have alluded to in this video, when you pick a religion you still have to wrestle with the moral contradictions within it).
Surely basing morality in things such as human suffering is a far better system which doesn’t require supernatural presuppositions. And it also doesn’t require defending things like slavery and the murder of innocent women and children, which you are implicitly doing by defending Christianity as an objective moral standard.
@@ethanbenson philosophy is completely worthless without objective moral standards to build off of without objective moral standards your favorite philosophy matters as much as your favorite ice cream flavor objectively speaking. also just because many fictional gods exist does not mean there are no real gods an uncountable amount of fictional humans exist but that doesn't mean humans aren't real and you figure out what humans are real or fake based off evidence just like with God. And if we have no reason to exist why should human suffering matter sure humans don't like to suffer but that doesn't make it bad objectively so objectively speaking why should we care about human suffering.
@@izzymosley1970 so what’s your objective proof of God then? Why is your God real and all the others make believe?
And even then, supposing you are a Christian, how do you explain the change in the moral disposition of Christianity through the centuries? For example, I assume things like slavery and the things I outlined here aren’t things you think are moral, yet many Christians for centuries used your “objective” standard to justify these things.
If you feel particularly strongly though, I do invite you on to have a debate, we’ll livestream it so I can’t edit it, and go back and forth on these sorts of topics. My email is ethanbensonyt@gmail.com, send me an email and we’ll make it happen.
@@ethanbenson my proof that the Christian God is real is a historical argument for the resurrection of Jesus first of all we know that Jesus was real from non-biblical sources like Josephus and tacticas we also know that Jesus died from crucifixion and then after that his followers became convinced that he rose from the dead so convinced in fact they were willing to die as martyrs and also the tomb where Jesus was buried was found empty despite the fact that to him was heavily guarded if you doubt anything I'm saying I encourage you to look into it yourself.
@@izzymosley1970 I have looked into this argument before. I personally don’t really think it holds weight, but again, would love to discuss further in a spoken format, I think it’s easier for us to go back and forth that way and try to find some common ground
there is something greater than me- that keeps me humble enough to keep learning lessons in all areas of my life- hopefully not repeating the same lessons , always growing/changing- i believe somebody or something is looking out for me provided im living clean decently- lowering my expectations of others & raising my own- THX U 4 sharing your life/mind not expecting to win popularity contest nor do u think ur owed anything u dont work for- living ur way in2 gd thinking PEACE MR
Thanks for the comment! Certainly, this isn’t the video I’d make to win a popularity contest hahaha
Agree 100%! I love this! Thank u for all ur work!
Thanks Jamie!
I love this! Some really excellent points and well thought out arguments.
Thank you!
Fools always question God instead of asking for wisdom, this keeps them life time fools
I’d revise this sentiment by saying that the real fools are those who think being unquestioning somehow makes them intelligent.
The children of God see and understand their God, Satan turns his children into fools they believe that they don't have to understand to judge the God who made the sun to rise in the morning or the moon at night. These vain and slaves to Satan will inherent hell with Satan
Sounds pretty metal
@@sandomoore6164 Why couldn't your all knowing and omnipotent God just wipe Satan out of existence?
@@ethanbensonJust found your channel. At least Satan didn't throw a tantrum and drown millions of innocent beings,am I right? Gonna go watch more of your vids. You fight right in with the others I watch.
You are actually very wrong. First many of the things you mentioned are OT laws, they are not applicable. Second, most nations around Israel at that time were pagan and thus engaged in child sacrifice; most laws were meant to deter Israel from ever doing anything like that (hence why they should not turn to idols because the people worshipping idols would sacrifice their kids to those idols if not worse). Second, in a lot of cases, slavery was very different back then. Especially in the Roman times many people would sell themselves off to settle debts. You can read more about this in "The Greco-Roman world" by James Jeffers. Socially, an imperial slave was actually higher in rank than your average citizen. So if you are a poor free citizen... you were better off selling yourself to the emperor... But for the average slave, many masters actually freed them and them re-employed them as freed citizens (or noncitizens) with payed wages. New Testament also teaches that if you are a slave (in 1 corinthians) it is good if you can become free and that masters should never beat their slaves, but treat them with respect. Deuteronomy is taken out of context: God doesnt tell them they should eat their kids, but that the siege will be so severe that famine will set in and some of them will probably start eating their kids. Isaiah is also taken out of context: the assyrians were marching against them, they were basically at war. In jewish law, killing and murder are different. Killing was legal (seen as an act of self defense such as shooting a robber who tries to slit your throat) which is the case in Isaiah. Murder was and still is illegal. 2 Kings also does not say nor imply that the bears were sent by God, just that Elisha cursed the boys and then some bears showed up. Was it God or simply them being in the woods? We don't know. Christianity is also not just in western hemisphere; its alive and booming in China too. One more thing: people are awful on both sides. Some major crimes were done in the atheist circle too - such as communism in NK which is an atheist state. In fact, most communist countries outlawed Christianity because it was a THREAT to them. Now for the argument about the OT: the Old Testament is given not only as a recording of how God was present with the Israelites everywhere but also because the OT is a historical record. (now there might be some debates about Genesis being accurate or not and all of that stuff and I'll be honest; I dont know if Genesis is 100% true or if some things were metaphorical). Just summing up 1000 years of history in 3 paragraphs is a bit disrespectful, dont you think? Not to mention Isaiah (for example) is chock full of relevant prophecies about the coming of Jesus, all of which are necessary for the New Testament. Jesus also says that ALL the law is summed up in "love the Lord thy God and love thy neighbour". Jewish law also made a distinction between killing and murder. Killing was legal and moral because it was an act of self defence (such as shooting a robber if he tries to stab you or something). Murder is illegal.
Ok, this is a lot to respond to in one comment, but here goes. If you'd like to actually talk about this, I'd be really keen to set up a debate where we can go back and forth on these things.
1. As I mentioned in the video, Jesus directly says a couple of times that he is not abolishing the OT laws.
2. You say the surrounding nations were evil and sacrificing children, yet what about stories like that of Isaac? Even if we do accept what you're saying, do you not think that the laws presented in this video are still pretty messed up? I mean, really, stoning people to death for working on a Sunday?
3. On your comments about slavery, you aren't referring to slaves. What you are talking about is indentured servants. In the quote I gave in the video, the part immediately preceding it deals with this. Indentured servants were able to come from within Israel, slaves were not. Slaves could only be foreign, and are exactly like the slaves we think of when the word is used. They were absolutely used as work horses to complete grueling labour for barely any food or water. These people were treated as property. Jesus saying to not treat them completely awfully doesn't really take away from those conditions.
4. In terms of the famine, who created the famine? Who has the power to make them not have to eat their children?
5. With the bears, it's pretty clearly God's doing. They are called upon in the name of the Lord. "And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them."
6. I know that Christianity isn't just a thing in the wast, but this video is made for the people who will watch it, who are primarily in the west. I'm also responding to the commentators who I have seen who have said that in particular, western society would be better if more people became Christian.
7. The way you treat it as if there are only Christian or Atheist states is pretty silly. North Korea isn't really an atheistic state at all. In many ways, Kim Jong Un is their God. The people are more or less taught he is a divine being. To claim people like him, or Stalin or Mao (I want to say before you bring up Hitler, he was Catholic. He is quoted as saying this. The first agreement he signed was with the Catholic Church which is a large part of why he was able to come into power) did what they did for reasons that have nothing to do with Atheism. It has more to do with their economic beliefs or their desire for power. Nobody is going to war for Atheism. They have, on the other hand, gone to war for religion, and we can see over in the Middle East in particular, that people are still willing to do this. You talk about them banning Christianity, well I mean, Christianity itself has a ban on people believing anything else, which I noted in the video. In theory, you must kill everyone who doesn't believe and the fact you haven't means that your entire city deserves to burn, with everyone in it being killed. I highlighted the relevant quotes in the video. Of course, nobody does this because it's completely evil.
8. In terms of the relevance of the Old Testament, I completely agree and that's partly the point I made in the video as to why it does count. All of that stuff is clearly important given it has been included. Therefore, I think we must also acknowledge that the moral assertions made in it are to be taken seriously.
9. The killing vs murder thing is fine, I'm not sure I quite see the relevance here. Most of what I talked about was the punishment for people committing very minor crimes (some of which are the foundation of our economic systems, I mean, worship of idols and coveting sounds very much like Capitalism to me). In saying that, I don't think that is very relevant when it comes to the wars in the Old Testament which in many cases are ordered and aided by God. As I mentioned in the video, that's a choice that did not have to be made. And even if we say it did, the murder of innocent women and children certainly is hard to justify, even in warfare. These are innocent bystanders and God commands their death.
@@ethanbenson yo even though jesus did not come to abolish the ot laws it doesnt mean that they are still applicable. The moment he died on the cross he cleared away our sins and God is willing to forgive us so long as we repent so even though that Jesus did not abolish the laws, those laws still dont hold because he died on the cross for all our sins making him our advocate in the lord when we sin.
@@houseofcrazyentertainment7025 I get what you mean, but I think it's kind of wishful thinking. The forgiveness of sins has nothing to do with the laws and the punishments on earth for them. Perhaps in the divine sense we are forgiven, but in the physical? Nothing changes.
Even if that was the intention, then there would be no moral standard for the Bible to judge anything as all sin has the ability to be forgiven, therefore doing anything is ok, including any number of horrible acts as long as you're sorry. But then maybe the idea is you must be genuinely sorry.
But then, this clearly isn't something that the church has believed for very long. I'm not so sure that all those people killed in the Crusades or the Inquisition on the basis of being evil sinners had much time to repent for their sins of happening to be born in a place where Christianity wasn't common.
I think this is very much a modern, very charitable interpretation and I get why it seems appealing, but I don't think it holds weight when considering its implications.
@@ethanbenson man you're dwelling too much on the past. God is a merciful God and he will forgive us for our sins when we repent and these punishments will not come against us. It was only then that he made all these rules to make sure people were straight with him, God is good all the time and his way of thinking is beyond ours.
Why repent for committing these sins though? Why repent for working on a Sunday? Or coveting? Or for having people in your town who believe in other Gods? Or worshiping idols? These are all fundamental to our modern way of life. Coveting and worshipping idols could be argued to be essential elements of capitalism. Given you have admitted that these laws do still exist in Christianity and Jesus didn’t remove them, you’re saying we must repent for them.
Yo I'm going to school now, when I come back I will state how you are wrong in many ways.
Cool, looking forward to it
By what standard are you basing your morality? The creator of us all set standard. You can't justify anything on atheism.
Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’[a] 31 The second is this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[b] There is no commandment greater than these.”
Without God, life is meaningless in atheism we die and nothing happens. That is not a way to live.
This is a done to death talking point. What moral standards? Well clearly just as arbitrary ones as you given you too pick and choose which parts of the bible you adhere to. I literally talk about this in the video. At least I can be logically consistent in my ethics while you, as a result of this picking and choosing fundamentally cannot.
@@franknwogu4911 a quote from the bible to justify belief in the Bible? That sounds airtight.
Plenty of people find meaning without the Bible. I live a very happy fulfilling life which I honestly think is just as virtuous if not more so than your average Christian
@@ethanbenson What is virtue and why is it meaningful without God? Why do anything on atheism. Their is no justification.
@@ethanbenson Where do I pick and chose my morality from the Bible? I listen to Jesus, who is the law. How are you consistent on your ethics? Justify your ethics?
Now I'm back, here's what I have to say
1. Please dont insult the bible by calling it "barbaric" that's disrespectful to the people that wrote it
2. These rules that you mentioned that are punishable by death, some are changed. Through Jesus christ most of these things you have mentioned have been cancelled out and if I was to judge by what I saw all of these laws (except from the one which was in mark )you said were from the old testament. The old testament was full of strict laws that were to never be broken and if so you die but through the birth of Jesus they were forgiven. If one should commit these crimes that you have listed then, divine judgement will have come upon them but if one now should commit those crimes, God has given us the opportunity to be able to repent and be with God. So you saying those rules are punishable by death is not quite correct in the sense that we can repent for our sins and God will accept us. You say working on sunday gets you payed more but it was stated in the bible that we should keep the sabbath day holy. It's a rule, we are meant to follow it because it's a rule. If you are in work there are layed down rules in which you have to follow and if you break them you get sacked so you dont break them so why cant you just obey this simple and basic rule? If you can obey other earthly rules set by humans then you should also be able to obey the rules of God who made us. And once again most of these rules you are talking about are RULES OF OLDEN TIMES Jesus came to pay the ultimate price for us so as long as we repent God is willing to forgive us (I will emphasise on this point a lot of times so please bare with me). Another thing is that yes, these laws should be punishable by death so to make sure nobody breaks them. At work if you make certain mistakes like setting the building on fire you can get sacked. These sins are generally actually worse than setting a building on fire to God.
3. In the term of slavery, the way God put it if you actually read further, it says if they SELL THEMSELVES, meaning it was the slaves choice to become a slave. God did not say that one should go and forcefully make people slaves and it even says that if your brother should make himself a slave to you, do not treat him as one and if you actually read Ephesians 6:9 it clearly states that Masters of slaves should not threaten their slaves and they should have a good attitude towards them, and if you read a little above that passage it literally says that there are blessings for doing good work either as a slave or not so the aspect of slavery in which you are referring to is very different to wat God was talking about. Ad the reason God will not discern slavery is because it was actually a choice that mankind chose and God has given us freedom of choice and decision but he made sure that one is not to treat their slave lowly.
4. I understand where you come from saying that the morals should be adopted but the bible teaches us good character better than any law or standard that anyone can come up with. You're saying that we should extract the only good morals in the bible, but that will not change the fact that these morals are from the bible. Removing the roots of a plant will kill the fruit and what you are trying to say is that we should remove the root where these morals came from. If that is done then they will have no meaning they will just be everyday standards without any value to add to our lives except for making them peaceful. But if it is in the bible then it is meant to guide us through life, teach us good habits and morals and at the end of the day if we follow the rules of the bible we will make it to heaven. What I'm trying to say is that if you take these rules out of the bible them they just become normal standards without any punishment if you dont follow them. But the fact that they are in the bible means that we have to follow them or else there will be divine punishment and God doesnt want that for us.
4. Your concept on church is quite wrong. A lot of churches give to the poor. My church gives to the poor, Jesus said we should help those in need so that is a law we have to follow and those who do not follow these laws are not doing as Jesus instructed them to do. Dont think that all churches are the same just because some churches are doing the wrong thing, that's very stereotypical. Another thing, please do not insult God that is disrespectful to us believers so mind your language. Once again you are talking about things God did in the old testament and please check numbers 21:6-9 because what you wrote is absolutely wrong God never gave reward for killing any woman there. Let me explain something to you: during that period of time humanity had pretty much turned it's back against God and they started doing all manner of sin and rubbish and this was why God actually sent the flood but even as humanity was turning away from God there were still some people who yearned for God and those were his servants. So God had to put very strict rules to make the people stop sinning. You say that God is a mass murderer but my question for you is this: he made us so why cant he take back our lives? These lives of ours are actually his so him killing people because they did not adhere to his rule is his choice. But even you said that these are things that he did in the OLD TESTAMENT and most of them were to protect the ones who were righteous to him and to try and correct other. You saying that God is a murderer is die to the fact you dont know how mankind used to sin back in those days. It was said that mankind sinned so much that God actually regretted making mankind. So please dont think about the genocide part because what some of those people did they actually deserved the punishment that came for them. The reason why he cant control the events is that because if he did so then it means that he isnt giving mankind freedom of choice, hes just making everything how he wants it to be. He loves us so much that he allows us to have freedom to do all we want but mankind abused that freedom leading to le loss of lives of innocent people. But even in all the se situations God made us a promise that he will always be with us. The only reason in which these people were actually less than the Israelites was because they did not have their faith in God. If they did then their situation will have turned out differently.
5. Bro the old testament is important because it teaches us the consequences of living our lives the wrong way but it doesnt mean that every little sin we commit leads to instant death, all the punishments mentioned in the old testament still stand because if we commithise sins and we dont repent then we will face death. But as long as we repent God is willing to take us with open arms. The fact that Jesus is not changing anything doesnt mean that he is going to just let us die, that's why he took our place and died on the cross. The old testament is important but those laws are to make sure we dont sinso please dont see it as Jesus did not come to change anything alone, he also came to add things that will make our holy and physical lives better. Nothing is contradicting itself, it's just that you dont have the full grasp of the knowledge of the word of God. God brought jesus to earth to add a better way of redemption so you are right, he isnt changing anything he said in the old testament, but he added things to what he said so the word of God is still flawless. And I just want to bring to your attention that there are a lot of false teachings out there and that is one of the signs of the end times drawing near. The bible is flawless but the way people read it and understand it makes it look like there are actually issues in it but there arennt. If we stand for the bible to be adopted into the modern society, yes we want all of it to be adapted and none of it to be left out because it takes intense reading and meditation to be able to understand the word of God properly. The bible does place standards in place for Christians and all that worship God because God does not want us to go to helll but heaven.
But bro I just want you to know that even after all that you have said God still loves you equally and he will never stop loving you even if you say all these things about him. Apostle Paul was worse than you yet God still used him to spread the Gospel. God is willing to take you in with open arms anytime even when you are in the lowest part of life, dont forget this.
Hey man, this is a really long comment, I’ve read through it, but I really don’t think responding to it here will be awfully fruitful as we can go back and forth like this forever and that’s just wasting both of our time. I’d love to have you on though to talk about this as more of a discussion/debate if you’d be open to that. Can just send me an email if you’re down, it’s on the pinned comment. I think that would be a better way to discuss this and be able to get somewhere and would also be a way to make both of our points easier to get through for others.
@@ethanbenson bro I've been waiting for your response in total fear😅 but I understand what you're saying. I'll try to do so.
Fucking wow, go and find a corner to preach on ffs!!!
The Messiah is returning (1 Thessalonians 4: 13 - 18). “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do, he will do also; and greater works than these he will do; because I go to the Father”(John 14:12).
Watch: “THE TREMENDOUS TESTIMONY OF THE POWERFUL BLOOD OF JESUS IN THE STORAGE HOUSE” on Repent & Prepare the way. Amen
People have been saying this since the middle ages at least. You know how often they've been right? 0% of the time. The quote you gave also has little to do with it.
EVIL YWH IS IMMUTABLE
BE A EUNCUH