I've been on the fence with this particular subject and have been asking God to show me the truth.. Thank you so much for your teachings! I stayed up last night studying my Bible along with a couple of your teachings and I believe I now think that a Pre-trib rapture teaching could very well be part of the Great Falling Away. It makes sense when you think about it. .. much deception will overwhelm the people in the end days and I believe this is what this is. I've always believed in a pre trib rapture only because it's what I've always been TOLD but when I started actually studying my Bible for myself I have done a complete 180 on Rapture timing.
Rapture Second Coming Translation of Believers No Translation involved The Saints go to Heaven The Saints return to the Earth The Earth is not Judged The Earth is judged Imminent Not Imminent Affects Believers only Affect all men on Earth Before the day of Wrath Concludes the day of wrath No reference to Satan Satan is bound He comes in the air He comes to the Earth He comes for His bride He comes with His bride Only the saints see Him Every eye shall see Him The tribulation (wrath) begins The Millenium begins Rapture - John 14:1-3 - I Cor 15:1-53- I Thes 4:13-18 - Roman 8:19, I Cor 1:7-8, 15: 21-23 - Phil 3:20-21 - Col 3:4 - I Thes 1:10 - I Thes 2:19 - I Thes 5:9-10 , 23 - II Thes 2:1-3 - I Tim 6:14 - Heb 9:28 - James 5:7-9 - I Peter 1:7,13 - I John 2:28 - 3:2 - Jude 21 - Rev 2:25 - Rev 3:10 Second coming - Dan 2:44-45 - Dan 7: 9-14 - Daniel 12:1-3 - Zech 14:1-15 - Mat 13:41 - Mat 24: 15-31 - Mat 26:64 - Mark 13:14-27 - Mark 14:62 - Luke 21: 25-28 - Acts 1:9-11 - Acts 3:19-21 - I Thes 3:13 - II Thes 1: 6-10, 2:8 - II Peter 3:1-14 - Jude 14-15 - Rev 1:7 - Rev 19: 11-20:6 - Rev 22:7, 12 This teaching is endorsed by Hal Lindsey, Perry Stone, John Hagee, David Jeremiah, Mark Biltz, J.D. Farah, Jimmy Evans, Jack Hibbs, Mark Hitchcock, Robert Breaker, Theo Heartsill, Skip Heitzig, Andy Woods, Rabi Schneider, Gary Sterman, Chuck Missler, and at least 100 other names I could list here.
I struggled as well. I used to be pre-trib. After, I thought about the absolute devastation so many will feel when it doesn't happen. How it will greatly shake faith.
Do not be deceived, Christ is clear that He will come 1st when people will be doing business as usual as a thief, and He will come again after the 7th bowl when the world is in complete ruin and people won’t be doing business as usual. It’s written in the gospels that will be alike the days of Noah and Lot. There are 2 events, one where we are gathered in the clouds, and one when we go with Christ after the 7th bowl. One is when the world is still doing business as usual, another is when the world is in complete ruin and destruction with water as blood and hail falling down from the sky. Do you think people will be marrying and partying when all water has been turned to blood and there are legions of weird locusts making people suffer for 5 months and millions from the Euphrates killing 1/3 of humanity? Scriptures are clear, there are 2 different scenarios of gatherings, one before tribulation begins, another when the harvest comes to place. That is scriptural, no way of reconciling this without 2 different gathering, humans are insane nowadays but even so. I don’t see any partying and marrying when stars fall from heaven and earthquakes and fire are coming down from the sky.
I'm sure that there is something significant in the fact Prophecy Watchers turn off comments. They've done it again today. Thank you for being open to discuss things
It is very refreshing to listen to an argument against a pretribulation rapture. Everything I hear is 'pretrib' and have always wanted to hear another take on this event.
The church rapture is absolutely true John 6 39-54 Jesus says at the Last day four times Jesus is Truth Only one day can be Last The Resurrection of the church is at judgment day Mystery Babylon added the church to the thousand year reign of Jesus The thousand year reign of Jesus is promised to the saints that overcome the Mark of the beast Revelation 20 4 seven descriptions Revelation 2 & 3 seven letters LISTEN TO JESUS ONLY Jesus is Truth Keep the Faith
The resurrection of the whole world will take place on judgment day. Not just the church will be brought back to life at judgment day. That's why they say, born once, die twice; born twice, die once!
@michaelparsons5228That is NOT true. Chapter 2 is him discussing their concerns that they had missed the 2nd coming and that the day of the Lord was upon them. This is why he tells them that THAT DAY(what day? What he had just said at the beginning of the discussion. The COMING(greek word parousia, singular noun, always used in reference to his coming) of the lord and us being gathered to him. Do you notice that he groups his COMING and and our gathering together as a singular day? Pre trib says we are raptured BEFORE their concept of a "7 year day of the lord" yet Paul here says this is WHEN it occurs, not after. Then what does Paul say? He lists 2 things that happen first. The apostasy and the antichrist. So pre trib has to explain why Paul places specific events before the rapture when they claim nothing is specified to prophetically happen beforehand, and they have to explain why the DAY of the lords coming is grouped with the rapture, and they have to explain why Paul places it after the antichrist. FYI with all due respect, I know the argument as I used to be pre trib. So before if you decide to answer, it's a bad argument with nothing to back it up.
@michaelparsons5228 "which shows unequivocally that this Church was looking for a pre-Tribulation Rapture"... If they did, they were and are obviously. Scripture does NOT support the star-trek-theology of a 'pre-tribulation' rapture. One has to ravage the text and use a lot of eisegesis to make it say anything in support for Christians being beamed up before tribulation and the return of Christ in the end. The motive behind pretribbing is a carnal desire to be 'saved in the flesh' and not to face tribulation, because of the Faith. But why would tribulation make sense, if there weren't any Christians between the emergence of the beast system and the return of Christ? Pretribbing is preposterous on its faith and I fear the erroneous belief in it, is a lesser one of their problem. The core issue is them having a carnal mind and allowing it to dictate their eisegesis in the process.
@@squirreljones3595 you are NOT SMART! You won't "die for Jesus" in the Tribulation... You will die of starvation or a military drone. You post tribbers cultists are RIDICULOUS
This ghostly invisible after-life world view is one of the major reasons I didn’t look deeper into Christianity in my search as a young girl. I instead looked to eastern philosophy because it seemed deeper and real. Now, I realize our God and the life he wants for us is full of color and excitement and I couldn’t be more excited for his reign on earth. Thank the Lord that he pursues us and reveals himself to each one of us.
“Ghostly invisible after-life world view”??? You do realize that Christianity is deeply spiritual, right? Surely you realize that our Father is “invisible” and so is every angel (spirit) right? Also, you don’t think there are physical bodies already in heaven or hell, do you? I didn’t know Sadducees still existed…
@@WornDownSaint I was simply saying that the incorrect portrayal of heaven and the after-life as a boring, ethereal, and non-physical place was one of the reasons I didn’t seek Christianity in my youth. It seemed bland and bleak as it was represented to me back then. In my study of the Bible in recent years, I’ve come to know more about our Lord and his intentions for us and the earth. As my relationship with him has deepened, I understand that he is dynamic and deep and colorful and the afterlife will be as well. I’m grateful for teachings such as this one, that point is to the beautiful truth of God. I’m sorry if I was unclear before.
Many folks seeking truth *fail to find* 'cos they're easily led astray by worldly logic, high sensuality, vain imagination or specious mysticisms. I know I was. I'm an ex neo-vedantic (hindu roots) new ager. I used to be into so much "spiritual" stuff: trance channelings, ancient wisdom, gnosticism, psychedelics, hindu gurus and buddhist mystics. I was illuminated by the *kundalini (serpent) spirit* then 7 years ago I got properly enlightened by the *Holy Spirit* which showed me what a fool I was before. Spirit led me to the real *Jesus Christ* and everything changed - paradigm shifted. This is being *BORN AGAIN* and it's an ongoing surprise to me 😁 It escapes the notice of our self-absorbed, glamour-saturated world that we're in a spiritual war for souls. The immensity of ignorance is astonishing: the dark powers bedazzling the minds of the masses (Ephesians 6:12). We've inherited ancient spiritual subversion: the earth is fallen. The holistic fields of nature are fallen state. Life kills and feeds upon itself. Mankind is a spiritually fallen race highly prone to deceit and delusion. Frankly, we need a *Saviour* and by Jesus Christ we have a *Glorious One* As a new ager I couldn't believe it but in the *Light of Spirit* Jesus really is the *Way, the truth and the Life* just like He said: no one comes to God except through Jesus, there's no other way (Matthew 7:13-14). As a neo-vedantist I wasn't convinced (I was damn sure I knew better) but turns out the Bible is Spirit breathed, written by men inspired by the *Holy Spirit.* Jesus is vividly portrayed and endorsed in the new testament, in fact he's apparent in the old testament too (Luke 24:27 & 44) and by the *Light of Spirit* we're allowed to *see* that and *know Him.* Any previously perceived discrepancies or contradictions are ironed out and the supernatural narrative flows most beautifully. The Bible is the Revelation of Jesus Christ.
@@SpiritLevel888 thank you for this. I don’t encounter many followers of Christ that found him through a genuine search through “new-age” philosophy. How wonderful that he will find seekers wherever they are! I’m grateful for the revelation he has given that brought me out of the worldly bindings that surround us in this fallen world. I’m also grateful for people like you. Thank you for sharing!
@@WornDownSaint What spiritually means in Christianity proper and 'spirituality' in the rest of discourse are two different pairs of shoes. Spiritual Christianity becomes highly practical, when there is fruits of the Spirit in a person. Now with 'Christianity' broad there are various variants of this. There is emotional approaches that strongly focus on experiences and the supposedly miraculous and then there is also highly theoretical debates full of sophistry as well as a legalist/pietist approaches. I'm afraid lots of this is just another form of Flesh cultivation and not the real deal.
So so many pastors on the web across this country sadly perpetuate the pre trib deception. This erroneous stance is in every state in small congregations and mega "churches". So thank you for your continued teaching OF THE WORD and the blessed hope at the last day. The entire bible tells us this truth as did Jesus.
Rapture Second Coming Translation of Believers No Translation involved The Saints go to Heaven The Saints return to the Earth The Earth is not Judged The Earth is judged Imminent Not Imminent Affects Believers only Affect all men on Earth Before the day of Wrath Concludes the day of wrath No reference to Satan Satan is bound He comes in the air He comes to the Earth He comes for His bride He comes with His bride Only the saints see Him Every eye shall see Him The tribulation (wrath) begins The Millenium begins Rapture - John 14:1-3 - I Cor 15:1-53- I Thes 4:13-18 - Roman 8:19, I Cor 1:7-8, 15: 21-23 - Phil 3:20-21 - Col 3:4 - I Thes 1:10 - I Thes 2:19 - I Thes 5:9-10 , 23 - II Thes 2:1-3 - I Tim 6:14 - Heb 9:28 - James 5:7-9 - I Peter 1:7,13 - I John 2:28 - 3:2 - Jude 21 - Rev 2:25 - Rev 3:10 Second coming - Dan 2:44-45 - Dan 7: 9-14 - Daniel 12:1-3 - Zech 14:1-15 - Mat 13:41 - Mat 24: 15-31 - Mat 26:64 - Mark 13:14-27 - Mark 14:62 - Luke 21: 25-28 - Acts 1:9-11 - Acts 3:19-21 - I Thes 3:13 - II Thes 1: 6-10, 2:8 - II Peter 3:1-14 - Jude 14-15 - Rev 1:7 - Rev 19: 11-20:6 - Rev 22:7, 12 This teaching is endorsed by Hal Lindsey, Perry Stone, John Hagee, David Jeremiah, Mark Biltz, J.D. Farah, Jimmy Evans, Jack Hibbs, Mark Hitchcock, Robert Breaker, Theo Heartsill, Skip Heitzig, Andy Woods, Rabi Schneider, Gary Sterman, Chuck Missler, Amir Tsarfati and at least 100 other names I could list here.
@@chendric77 Cute. You are dogmatic about a thing never ever stated in the Bible; the book which claims, “All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the servant of God may be *thoroughly equipped* for every good work.” (emphasis obviously mine) That all sufficient book also states, "“Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.” Revealeth+ (Heb 'gala' = tell, reveal, lay bare PUBLISH, make known.)
It doesn't get clearer than in Matthew 24: 29 - 31. Events are listed step by step: “Immediately after the distress of those days “‘the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’ “Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other."
That's the First Resurrection Only the saints that overcome the Mark of the beast are promised the thousand year reign of Jesus Revelation 20 4 Unbelievers don't LIVE again Revelation 20 5 But the rest of the dead lived not again till the thousand years have finished. This is the First Resurrection Daniel 12 2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting Life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt The Resurrection of the church is at judgment day John 6 39-54 Jesus says at the Last day four times Jesus is Truth Jesus says no one knows the day or hour Jesus dosen't make mistakes Jesus is talking about two Resurrections Revelation 20 shows two Resurrections One is called the First Resurrection One is at the Last day Revelation 21 shows New Jerusalem with no more days Jesus is Truth Keep the Faith
@@JCneverFailsIf I understand these (and other) verses correctly, the rapture and the second coming are part of the same sequence of events. Christ appears and every eye sees him. Then, we are quickly removed for a while, to be kept safe while he pours out God's wrath on the world. Once he's done, we will join him in the Millennium here on earth. The pretribbers see the rapture as an event that is an end to itself, whereas the Bible describes it as a short 'scene' in the event that is the second coming.
@@squirreljones3595 I agree with all you say, except that the dead in Christ will rise first, i.e. just before those believers who still alive, are raptured. We will stand before Christ's Bema seat for our judgment and reward. Those who died in unbelief, will be part of the second resurrection and they will stand before God for judgment, after the Millennium.
@@LilibethDev John says the beheaded rise First You don't have a definition of Dead in CHRIST, so you should consider the seven descriptions in Revelation 20 4 It all hinges on the Mark of the beast Christians that die before the Mark of the beast were never promised the thousand year reign of Jesus When talking about the rapture Jesus says no one knows the day or hour John 6 39-54 Jesus says at the Last day four times Jesus dosen't make mistakes Jesus is talking about two Resurrections We know there's a thousand years after the First Resurrection, so the church rapture has to be at judgment day Jesus is Truth Keep the Faith
Everything else aside, though, you have to love how those ancient and medieval people wrote. "Blessed is the one who has rejected every foul-smelling desire!"
Most of us have a tendency to accept, and then quote from secondary or tertiary sources, especially when it seems to support our views. This is the easiest, but not best, way to do our research. I try to be gracious to others because many of them truly accept and believe the quotes obtained this way at more or less face value. But, as you are pointing out, there is a danger with this approach. Therefore I would encourage everyone reading this post to seek out the primary sources before accepting what this or that writer seems to be saying. May God give us wisdom in navigating this age of information and disinformation.
A few of the pastors that preach the rapture are starting to become concerned because the rapture has not happened, they think they may have misunderstood
@@CaptainFritz I know that Tom Hughes from "Hope for Our Times" has been back-pedaling... He has said quite a few times that "the rapture" may be coming later than we all thought... (His people ROAST him in the comment section!) He has been looking into the Feasts of YeHoVaH and a lot of the Hebrew. He may be seeing the error of his ways... Because he is also telling people they need to prepare if it doesn't happen the way they think!
@@CowboysFan777 Be afraid of your drones... Hide in your little rodent hole in the ground... Nothing in your own power is going to save you... Is your "bunker" impervious to flood? What about fire? What about earthquakes? Where does your air come from? Electricity?, Fuel? You might have 7 years worth of food and water... BUT... Where are you going to crap and urinate for seven years? You realize the moment you come out of your glorified rodent hole, you'll have a greeting party waiting for you, don't you? All a "bunker" is going to do for you is to save someone from the hassle of burying you... (Refer to Monte Judah's "Greater Exodus Series" to see how poorly protected you are in a bunker) YeHoVaH knows how to protect His people... Without this protection, you're doomed to fail regardless of what plans of men you have in mind... Yah's plan for you to come out of the "Greater Exodus" is to become a "light fighter" not to dig your own well appointed grave... "Luck" is a pagan construct... I have the SAME angel protecting me that disposed of 185,000 of Sennacherib's finest in one night... I'll take YeHoVaH's Grace and Protection any day... It got me through war and 5 times overseas... And by HIS Grace and Protection, I WILL endure to see Yeshua's Glorious Day!
@@nickstaxfree9604 GOD hates cowards... Revelation 21:8 - But to the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and sexually immoral and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their place will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur. This is the second death.” Revelation 6:16 - And they said to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of the One seated on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb. Proverbs 29:25 - The fear of man brings a snare, But he who trusts in the Lord will be exalted.
@@bawbjusbawb6471 If Joseph did not take heed to his dream of a 7 year famine coming on the land - all of Abraham's descendants would have perished. God expects us to know and to use his word in our lives. You figure out the rest that I left out. It should not be hard if your in the right spirit. May God bless you.
The pre tribulation deception is very dangerous and a salvation issue if people lose hope after it doesn’t happen. If you know the true story and prepared for rejecting beast mark and system you’ll be saved. If you believe a false story with no tribulation when it comes many will give in to the mark.
And it's even more dangerous that many are only taught pre trib and not even aware of anything else beca8se so many churches demand only pre trib doctrine
@@handles617 I can’t even find a church in Milwaukee area that teaches from KJV or about revelations. All the preachers are indoctrinated I guess which backs your point. I’m thinking of doing church at home with my 4 kids…idk it’s frustrating but at least my kids have someone teaching the truth. I was raised Catholic but sensed it was false in teens and walked away.
Post tribulation believers can't see the church rapture John 6 39-54 Jesus says at the Last day four times Jesus is Truth Revelation 20 shows two Resurrections One is called the First Resurrection One is at the Last day Jesus is Truth Mystery Babylon added the church to the thousand year reign of Jesus The thousand year reign of Jesus is promised to the saints that overcome the Mark of the beast Revelation 20 4 seven descriptions Revelation 2 & 3 seven letters Please double check the letters to the seven churches LISTEN TO JESUS ONLY Jesus is Truth Keep the Faith
It's kinda amazing that post trib believers can't see the second Resurrection for the church Revelation 20 shows two Resurrections One is called the First Resurrection One is at the Last day John 6 39-54 Jesus says at the Last day four times. Jesus is Truth Mystery Babylon added the church to the thousand year reign of Jesus
@@greywisker3180 I believe that's the First Resurrection for the saints that overcome the Mark of the beast John 6 39-54 Jesus says at the Last day four times Jesus dosen't make mistakes Jesus reigns here on this old earth for a thousand years This old earth still has the sun and days Revelation 21 shows New Jerusalem with no more days
@@squirreljones3595 keep reading in Revelation 20 starting in verse 11….. this is the great white throne judgement and it is the only other resurrection spoken of in the Bible……this is the second resurrection. You are correct Jesus does not make mistakes.
@@squirreljones3595 John 5:28-29 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth-those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation…….There you have it, only two resurrections; one to eternal life and the other to damnation.
Pastor Artur Pawlowski was just released from jail for time served... He was jailed and put in solitary confinement for preaching... Many nations view solitary confinement as torture... Solitary confinement for preaching?
Post-trib view understands "The Day of the Lord" to refer exclusively to the “Second Coming” of Christ, which occurs after the 7-year tribulation. On the other hand, Pre-trib view considers "The Day of the Lord" to mean the entire sequence of events of the “7-year tribulation.” I struggle to understand how "The Day of the Lord" can be described as coming like a thief in the night if it is only connected to the Second Coming of Christ. When the tribulation begins and people experience its effects, the Second Coming will not feel sudden or unexpected for the people. The Post-Trib view interprets the phrase "that the day would overtake you like a thief" (1 Thess 5:4) to imply that believers will not “feel” surprised or caught off guard like encountering a thief. According to this view, both unbelievers and believers will go through and “experience” the same events, but “unbelievers” will “feel” the suddenness and surprise of the Lord’s Coming, whereas “believers,” being aware of Jesus' coming, will not “feel” that sense of surprise as if encountering an unexpected thief. However, I have serious doubts about whether this is what Paul intended to convey in 1 Thess 5. Paul's intention seems to be more than just a matter of “feelings.” Rather, Paul is suggesting that while unbelievers will indeed “experience” the tribulation as a theft, believers will not actually go through that “same experience” of tribulation as a thief in the night. It’s not a matter of “feelings” but actual “experience.” This is why I adhere to the Pre-tribulation view, as I believe "The Day of the Lord" is synonymous with the entire 7-year tribulation period. The "onset" of the tribulation, its beginning, may come unexpectedly like a thief in the night (1 Thess 5:2), but for believers, "that day" (referring to the 7-year tribulation) will not overtake us as a thief in the night (1 Thess 5:4) because we will be raptured (1 Thess 4:17) just before the tribulation "that day" begins. Just a simple and natural reading of 1 Thess 4-5 will lead any readers to this conclusion. ⛪🙏
Your view has flaws in that it's based on the assumption that the tribulation and 7 years are synonymous. Once you realize that they are not, then it all becomes much easier to understand. Then there is the fact that the day of the Lord is actually specified multiple times as occurring with signs in the skies. Pre trib just ignores this and only utilizes the generic descriptions of the day of the lord, because if they look at the specific descriptions, then they have to explain why the day of the Lord appears to specifically start later in the 7 years. The thief in the night analogy is used multiple time. Paul would've used "come upon" instead of "overtake" if he wanted to convey a message of "real believers won't experience it" its fairly clear they will experience it therefore, yet will not be OVERTAKEN. It's not about being "surprised" or whether or not you have correct timing, but about whether or not you are prepared for the moment and the events which come with it. Notice that when Jesus uses the thief analogy he says the same day the unbeliever is cut in 2? And gnashing of teeth? Like all the other parables, never once does Jesus say we get that 2nd chance when that day comes. Yet pre trib claims that we do. I think it's very clear that they are simultaneous with his 2nd coming. Any other claim requires willful divergence. Revelation 16: 15 (Behold, I am coming like a thief! Blessed is the one who stays awake, keeping his garments on, that he may not go about naked and be seen exposed!”) Notice the timeframe of events this statement is made^^ I think you place far too much emphasis on literal surprise rather than the preparedness and unpreparedness of the passage. Also to conclude, your entire assumption is based on chapter 4 and 5 being different timeframes, yet the first verse indicates its a continuation.
@@handles617 You mentioned that my view has flaws because it assumes that the tribulation and the 7-year period are synonymous. I want to clarify that it is not an assumption but rather an argument based on biblical evidence. There are several reasons why "The Day of the Lord" is understood as equivalent to the entire 7-year tribulation. Firstly, if you study the concept of "The Day of the Lord" in the Old Testament, you will discover that it is not a 24-hour period or an instantaneous event connected only to the Second Coming of Christ. Instead, the prophets repeatedly describe "The Day of the Lord" as a sequence of events leading up to the coming of the LORD. It is a complex series of judgments and not a singular event. Secondly, Jesus Himself confirms this understanding in Matthew 24. He divides the first half of the tribulation (Matthew 24:4-14) from the second half (Matthew 24:15-28), with verse 15 serving as a dividing point. Jesus clearly mentions the Seventieth Week of Daniel (Dan 9:27) here in 24:15, which refers to the future Antichrist setting up an abomination of desolation in the temple. The events described in Matthew 24:4-14 closely resemble the beginning of the Seal judgments in Revelation 6. Jesus uses exactly same Greek words, such as "famines and earthquakes" (24:7), "will kill you" (24:9), which correspond to the Seal judgments' description of "kill by sword, famine, and plague" (Rev 6:8), and "There was a great earthquake" (Rev 6:12). Furthermore, Jesus describes the second half of the tribulation with the presence of false messiahs and false prophets performing “signs” and wonders to “deceive” people (Matt 24:24). These same Greek words for "signs" and "deceive" appear in Revelation 13 when it describes the actions of the Beast in the second half of the tribulation. The 7-year tribulation begins with the Seal judgments and concludes with the Bowl judgments. Thus, we see Jesus mentioning this entire 7-year tribulation as a sequence of events in Matthew 24. The fact that Matthew 24:4-28 encompasses the entirety of "the Day (ἡμέρα) of the Lord" is confirmed by Jesus' statement, "But immediately after the tribulation of those days (ἡμέρα)" (24:29), people will witness the coming of the Son of Man: the Second Coming (24:30). The Second Coming occurs "after" the "Day (ἡμέρα) of the Lord," specifically, "immediately after the tribulation of those days (ἡμέρα)." Therefore, it is unreasonable to equate "the Day of the Lord" solely with the singular event of the "Second Coming of Christ." Jesus Himself even emphasized that when individuals observe "all these things," they should recognize that He is near (24:33). "All these things" refers to the entire sequence of events during the tribulation (the Day of the Lord, 24:4-28). The Second Coming is preceded by specific and clear "signs," similar to how people can anticipate the approach of summer (24:32). However, Jesus changes the topic (peri de) starting in 24:36, stating, "But of that day (ἡμέρα) and hour no one knows." The Day of the Lord, the tribulation, is a "signless" event without visible signs. The most compelling evidence supporting the understanding that the Day of the Lord encompasses the entirety of the 7-year tribulation comes from Paul's words in 1 Thessalonians 5. Paul describes the day (ἡμέρα) of the Lord as coming upon unbelievers suddenly, "like labor pains (ὠδίν) on a pregnant woman," and they will not escape (5:3). It is noteworthy that the "onset" of the Day of the Lord is the same as what Jesus referred to as the "onset" of the tribulation in Matthew 24: "All these are the beginning of birth pains (ὠδίν)" (24:8). Both Paul and Jesus affirm that the Day of the Lord is not a singular event but a sequence of events (7 years) leading up to the Second Coming. Both Jesus and Paul affirm that the "onset" of the Day of the Lord signifies only the beginning of birth pains. Unbelievers cannot "escape" the Day when it begins and the sequence of events unfolds. Paul further states, "But you (second person: believers), brethren, are not in darkness, that the day (ἡμέρα) would overtake you like a thief" (5:4). The onset of "that day" cannot seize believers violently because Paul explained in the preceding context that they will be "caught up" to be with the Lord (4:17). Furthermore, if we equate the Day with Christ's Second Coming, it becomes difficult to comprehend how unbelievers can say "peace and safety" (5:3) and live their lives normally just before the Second Coming of Christ, given that they are currently experiencing the terrible wrath of God during that time. Lastly, look at 2 Thessalonians 2. Some of the Thessalonians were disturbed by a report claiming that the day of the Lord had arrived (2:2). If, in this context, the day of the Lord is synonymous with the second coming, then it would be impossible for them to be shaken in mind. Instead of being troubled, they should have rejoiced that the Day of the Lord had come! If the Christians had mistakenly believed, based on Paul's previous teaching, that they were currently going through the tribulation and held a post-tribulationist view, they would have likely been rejoicing rather than troubled by the idea of sudden deliverance. When we consider the overall context of 1-2 Thessalonians, the only logical explanation is as follows: The Thessalonians had been previously taught that the rapture would occur before the day of the Lord. The lie they heard just before Paul wrote his second letter to them suggested that the day of the Lord had come, and being informed of the day of the Lord's arrival necessarily implied that they had missed the rapture. This would undoubtedly be disconcerting, and it would have shaken the Thessalonians from their composure. The pre-tribulational rapture is not lacking in biblical support and evidence. In fact, there is ample evidence to support it. Viewing 1 Thessalonians 4-5 in its entirety, the pre-tribulation position appears to be the most natural reading. If you are presenting your view, do so in a humble manner.
@fifajjang77 I never claimed the day of the lord is a singular 24 hour period, you only claimed that I claim that. Yes, the first several events described in that passage are the seal events, this is exactly what I agree with. The problem is that you claim the tribulation is the entire 7 years, but this is never stated in the bible at all. I used to be pre trib, i know what the arguments for pre trib are. He divides the first half and calls it the beginning of sorrows or birth pains. it is ONLY at the mid point that he even uses the word tribulation, where he specifically calls it the great tribulation. So, to claim that the first half is the "tribulation" is not biblically based. Jesus also does not specify if the great tribulation is even the entire 2nd half to begin with either, or just a period of time of the 2nd half. You said the 2nd half is accompanied by false christs and deception, but this is also in the first half as it says in verses 4-5, so this, while not being necessary to either position of rapture timing, is just not correct. So to claim that the entire 7 years is the tribulation is not biblically based, and is thus simply a necessary claim to further pre trib doctrine along. So the reality is the 7 years should be referred to as the 7 years, not the tribulation, since the bible NEVER calls it all the tribulation. You say that matthew 24; 36 is a new topic, but there is no basis for this claim. It is only claimed to further along the pre trib claim. The questions jesus is asked at the beginning is WHEN will these take place, and what is the sign of his coming and end of the age. Jesus responds with the signs of his coming and end first, THEN in verse 36 he answers them as to when it happens. Again, there is no basis to claim he suddenly jumped timeframes. He says no man knows the day or hour followed by Noahs ark anaology. Do you notice that nobody is saved when the ark comes??? Pre trib claims you get a 2nd chance. Why dont you just respond to this? Its so simple and obvious that it cannot even be true. it literally says "but about that day and hour" but what WHAT day and hour? Hes answering their question on the SIGN of his COMING and WHEN it HAPPENS which he just established as being immediately AFTER the tribulation. He's just pointing out the timing that you WONT KNOW when it happens. He hasnt jumped timeframes to a different preliminary coming. This is as I have been saying, simply a claim to further along pre trib without any evidence to support it. 1 thess 5;3 does not prove my claim wrong, actually it simply validates my claim. What you have to do is establish that the day of the lord actually happens when the 7 years begins. None of your statement here actually establishes this, and you only forcefully insert it into being an interchangeable word with the 7 years. The ONLY verses that actually establish any timing compared to events for the day of the lord specifically place it with the signs in the skies, which is WELL INTO THE SEVEN YEARS. To claim pre trib you have to IGNORE these verses and only look at the generic ones. This is why ive said you have to willingly divert to believe pre trib. 2 thess does not even establish pre trib at all.In fact it only once again furthers my own claim. They believed the day of the lord was upon them yes, but to claim pre trib you have to outright ignore the statements he makes. To summarize for convenience he says "concerning the 2nd coming and us being gathered to him, do not be disturbed or shaken by things you have heard recently to believe that the day of the lord is ongoing, it will not come until 2 things, the apostasy and revealing of the antichrist. Pre trib will conveniently ignore this and then claim paul blatantly contradicts himself in verses 7-8 by adding in a 3rd event here that happens before the day of the lord in between the apostasy and antichrist revealing and even worse is that its WITHOUT ANY REAL EVIDENCE. Its one of the many things claimed to simply further it. Once you claim 7-8 is the rapture, the statement now is rendered "concerning the day of the lord and rapture, it will not occur until the apostasy, rapture, antichrist, which is just a circular statement. 2 thess being pre trib would also contradict jesus, when he places the apostasy as occuring IN THE 7 years, whereas pre trib claims it occurs before the rapture, so if the gathering is before the 7 years, then you'd have to claim the apostasy is before the 7 years when jesus says its IN the 7 years. This can only be reconciled with the fact that jesus says "when you see the abomination" but couldve also said "when you see the confirmation of the covenant" at the beginning of his speech of the end times, which heavily suggests we may not even understand it to begin with as occuring. This is backed up by the fact that paul mentions the revealing of the antichrist, and immediately describes the abomination of desoltion, when he couldve described the confirmation of the covenant. This makes sense since the word revealed means OUTED, as in you will know for sure he is the antichrist because of his unique action. Again, chapter 4 simply discusses their fear that the dead would not rise so they wouldnt see them again. He then in chapter 5 continues the topic in the same timeframe, stating unlike their lack of knowledge of the dead rising, they know perfectly well the day of the lord comes like a thief. Its not a topic change, and merely a comparison in the discussion. Paul clearly places the day of the lord and gathering as being side by side, not separate events. This sides with my claim. So to conclude, since there is no parable that establishes any 2nd chance after his "coming" even in the noahs ark analogy, youre left in a tight position to even claim there is a preliminary rapture. There is zero evidence and actually evidence to the contrary that the tribulation starts with the 7 years. The only time the bible indicates the exact timing of the day of the lord is IN the tribulation. 2 thess is discussing their concerns of missing his coming and gathering and the day of the lord beginning since any other claim would clearly contradict the list and specific order of events of 1-4 and create a circular statement. To claim pre trib you have to show me a verse that indicates the day of the lord actually starts with the 7 years, not just tell me you believe it. Or show me a verse that indicates timing of a gathering before the 7 years/antichrist. Sorry if I sound rude, it's not against you but the doctrine itself which is just not based in reality but a doctrine based in the same teachings from which we get prosperity teaching and other matters that appeal to the flesh.
@@handles617 Learn how to write and present your points clearly, as all I'm hearing is you saying that there is no evidence to support my claim etc etc. Write your view clearly, like I’m addressing the points very clearly and easy to follow. With all due respect, none of what you have said is convincing, and you have not provided any support based on the statements I made. [1] Did you not read when I said the following? [The most compelling evidence supporting the understanding that the Day of the Lord encompasses the entirety of the 7-year tribulation comes from Paul's words in 1 Thessalonians 5. Paul describes the day (ἡμέρα) of the Lord as coming upon unbelievers suddenly, "like labor pains (ὠδίν) on a pregnant woman," and they will not escape (5:3). Paul describes the starting point, "onset" of the "Day of the Lord" as "like labor pains (ὠδίν) on a pregnant woman." This is exactly the same as what Jesus referred to as the starting point, "onset" of the tribulation in Matthew 24: "All these are the beginning of birth pains (ὠδίν)" (24:8). This is why I argued that (the day of the Lord) starts in Matthew 24:4. Both Paul and Jesus affirm that the Day of the Lord is not just a singular event of His Second Coming, but a sequence of events (24:4-28) leading up to the Second Coming (24:29-30). Both Jesus and Paul affirm that the "onset" of the Day of the Lord signifies only “the beginning of birth pains.”] [2] You have not provided a clear explanation about people saying "peace and safety" (1 Thess 5:3) and the people "eating and drinking" just like the time of Noah (Matt 24:38) when the terrible Wrath of God is pouring down upon them in that exact moment! [3] The disciples' questions in Matthew 24:3 are twofold: (A) "When will this happen?" (referring to the time of distress, destruction, and tribulation), and (B) "What will be the sign of your coming?" You should know about the chiastic structure. This is how Jews would typically answer questions. Jesus addresses the (B) second question first in 24:4-28, and the (A) first question later starting in 24:36, marked by a switching of topic (peri de in Greek: it means regarding other (A) question). Jesus answers those 2 questions in Chiastic Structure (A-B-B'-A'). Jesus is saying that 24:4-28 are the "signs" of His Second Coming (answer to question B). He also states, "when you see all these things, recognize that He is near" (24:33). In other words, His Second Coming is preceded by clear signs. You should know that He is near when you see "all these things" in 24:4-28. However, regarding the first question, (A) "when will this happen" (the "starting" time of distress, destruction, and tribulation), Jesus says, "But of that day and hour no one knows" (24:36). The "onset" of that tribulation is a sign-less event, no one knows when it "starts." This is why Paul says, "the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night" (5:2). And because the “starting point” of the Day of the Lord is a sign-less event, this is exactly why the people can say "peace and safety" (1 Thess 5:3) and continue their normal activities, “eating and drinking” just like during the time of Noah (Matt 24:38). [4] Additionally, it seems you have not studied Daniel 9:24-27. Daniel 9:27 specifically tells us that the man of lawlessness will set up an abomination of desolation in the temple "in the middle of the week (Week in Hebrew 7 years)." The duration of 7 years is evident from Revelation 13:1, where it mentions that authority was given to the beast for “forty-two months” (3.5 years). Revelation 12:6 and 12:14 also indicate a period of 3.5 years: "where she might be taken care of for 1,260 days (3.5 years)" (Rev 12:6). "she would be taken care of for a time, times and half a time (3.5 years), out of the serpent’s reach" (Rev 12:14). With that in mind, once again, my view of seeing the first half of the tribulation (Matthew 24:4-14) from the second half (Matthew 24:16-28), with verse 15 (Daniel 9:27) serving as a dividing point, works nicely. [5] Regarding 2 Thessalonians 2:3, it seems you are not familiar with how to interpret Greek syntax. Your understanding is that the Day of the Lord “will not come” unless two things happen. However, that is not the only way to read the Greek syntax, which is why NASB has written italics over the phrase "it will not come." To clarify the matter, the missing protasis could be rendered something like this: “for that day [does not come] unless the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessness is revealed.” This can be translated as, "the apostasy, whatever that is, has not occurred, and the man of lawlessness has not been revealed. So the day cannot be here." Paul is simply stating that two elements included "in" (not before) the day of the Lord are not seen, therefore the day cannot be here. [6] You have not answered the question about why the Thessalonians were greatly shaken and troubled in 2 Thess 2. If, in this context, "the day of the Lord" is synonymous with "the second coming," then it would be impossible for them to be shaken in mind. Instead of being troubled, they should have rejoiced that the Day of the Lord had come, because it is the day of their deliverance from tribulation! If they believed in Post-Trib, they could not have been deceived that "The Day of the Lord" has already come because the Lord has simply “not appeared” from heaven! There would be no need for them to be shaken, and they would have rejected the deceivers' claim, simply because the Lord had not yet returned. However, it is very plausible that they were shaken and troubled because they had been deceived into thinking that "the day of the Lord" had already come, and they had missed the rapture. [7] Lastly, I don't know what you are talking about when you said, "there's any 2nd chance." It was never a second chance. Of course, chances can be given during that 7-year period of tribulation because that is "not the end of the age." God is gracious, and He has not completely returned (Second Coming) to make a final judgment over the entire world. When He finally returns at His Second Coming, there is no second chance.
@@fifajjang77 You keeping saying "tribulation starts 7 years" but again have never once showed a verse that indicates this. The only verses that speak of tribulation with timing are at the mid point, so unless you are going to hand me a verse to indicate it, please dont even bother. Joel 2:31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come. Joel 3:14 Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the LORD [is] near in the valley of decision. Joe 3:15 The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining. Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken "i have not provided a clear explanation" and neither have you even given an attempted explanation for as to why none of the parables, including in matthew 24 show the "left behind" being saved. Noahs ark analogy specifically says they were ALL taken away. "But of that day and hour no one knows" (24:36). The "onset" of that tribulation is a sign-less event, no one knows when it starts" This is simply not true. The day or hour he is referring to is what he just described, the coming of the son of man, the timing of it. You will not know the day or hour he comes. This falls in line with my claim. "and they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away; SO WILL THE COMING OF THE SON OF MAN BE." The coming of the son of man? When does he come? "IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE TRIBULATION OF THOSE DAYS." To claim this is a change to the beginning of the 7 years, you have to blatantly ignore that he says this is the coming of the son of man, which he just explained as being after the tribulation. "this is exactly why the people can say "peace and safety" (1 Thess 5:3) and continue their normal activities, “eating and drinking” just like during the time of Noah" As said above, this would only make sense if the analogy given had stated that people would be spared or saved, yet it says they are ALL taken away. Pre trib has to ignore this, as you conveniently are doing so. As for "peace and safety" I can easily claim that there is a pause in war and a moment of calm at a specific point before the day of the lord, and that this revamp of terrible destruction is the last straw in crushing people's hopes that they falsely believed would occur with the antichrist reign. "it seems you have not studied Daniel 9:24-27. Daniel 9:27 specifically tells us that the man of lawlessness will set up an abomination of desolation in the temple "in the middle of the week" No, I havent argued against that, and specified that the abomination occurs after the confirmation of the covenant. Not sure what your point is. Is it because i said the gathering occurs after the abomination? Correct. This is why paul mentions the antichrist, and then immediately describes the abomination of desolation, when he couldve added in the confirmation of the covenant. He is simply describing what revealed or "outs" the antichrist. I also pointed out that jesus places the apostasy IN the 7 years and before the abomination, and paul places it before the antichrist, which means he is stating it happens after the 7 years begins but before the abomination, which falls in line with my claim. This is something you conveniently ignored in your own response. It is a CONTRADICTION to claim pre trib with that in mind. "With that in mind, once again, my view of seeing the first half of the tribulation (Matthew 24:4-14) from the second half (Matthew 24:16-28), with verse 15 (Daniel 9:27) serving as a dividing point, works nicely." Wrong, since as pointed out, the tribulation is not used to describe anything until the abomination. Please refrain from using words that do not even exist for specific points. As for your point about 2 thess 3. This would only make sense for pre trib if he only mentioned the coming of the lord, yet he grouped the coming of the lord and gathering to him. Again, the phrase would be rendered "concerning the 2nd coming and us being gathered to him, that day will not come until apostasy and revealing of antichrist" The 2 events are coupled together and therefore the same timing. Now, for your last statement "they should have rejoiced that the Day of the Lord had come, because it is the day of their deliverance from tribulation! If they believed in Post-Trib, they could not have been deceived that "The Day of the Lord" has already come because the Lord has simply “not appeared” from heaven! There would be no need for them to be shaken because the Lord did not come back." Im not post trib as how you would understand it. Also, I dont believe the day of the lord is a singular day, and you would know that part if you even checked what i said at the very beginning of my last reply...You seem to not understand the difference between post trib and post 7 years. Just as when you falsely attributed the tribulation to the 7 years when it only uses it for from the mid point, the bible never even says how long the tribulation period lasts. Therefore we would place the coming of the son of man as being simultaneous with the end of the tribulation, which is before the end of the 7 years, because their days were cut short. Not cut short for all humans, only the elect, the BELIEVERS as stated by paul in romans 8:33 and 2 timothy 2:10. Pre trib will claim that this is meant by cutting off the days to only last the 7 years when he returns, but this would cut it short for everyone, yet jesus says he cuts it ONLY FOR THE ELECT, which falls in line with my claim. So to reiterate 2 thess 2. "concerning the coming and us being gathered, that day is not at hand, because the apostasy has not happened, and the antichrist has not been revealed" He couples the coming and gathering as that day. Then says it wont happen until those 2 events occur. To reiterate what I said in my last reply as well, since he says in verses 1-4 that these 2 must occur beforehand, it becomes contradictory to claim he later goes on to add a 3rd event that occurs before, especially since this claim has absolutely no basis to begin with. And, as I also said in my last reply, this would provide a circular statement that says the coming and rapture cannot occur until the apostasy, rapture and antichrist. So the tribulation is definitely not the whole 7 years, the day of the lord is specified as after the signs of the skies, and heck, just to add in, 1 thess 4 says parousia singular noun form, which is the form always used to refer to his 2nd coming. This is why I kept saying that pre trib is inconsistent to the point it just does it for moving the doctrine along.
I have been a monthly supporter for a while now and I Love the work you do in bringing the GOSPEL to the unreached. That is why I support you guys financially. So preach CHRIST and him CRUCIFIED, stop with the nit picking and in fighting. Its so unhelpful. Lee is an awesome brother in Christ and a fine man of God. Why are we so caught up in a non salvation issues. I'm right your wrong, its like listening to me 6yr and 4 yr old kids tossing comments at each other. Preach Christ. He is the only one worth talking about!
There are two resurrections according to Revelation 20. The first are the Saints (believers) who died in Christ. This is when Christ returns and reigns with him for millennia. After the 1000 years is the 2nd resurrection and the great white thrown judgement.
Thanks Joel. Praise God for rebuking Lee Brainard. He would never reply to my messages, and questions. (P.S. I don't expect a response on every question) This is a sure sign of someone who could care less about the TRUTH in God's word. After asking a few biblical questions, he blocked me. People that teach a false doctrine, CANNOT have people coming on their channel, and asking questions that would expose their lack of understand of scripture. It's one thing to NOT reply to questions, but another thing to block other believers from seeing those questions. What does he have to hide if he has the TRUTH? To God be the Glory.
@@e.mo.4530 I did same thing. I disagree with him with his answer, but Lee gave me a very thoughtful response. He doesn't believe ALL elements are destroyed in 2 Peter 3:10. It's not a Salvation issue but we can agree to disagree.
@@Pre-Tribulation When I hear people say we can agree to disagree. My first thought is, does the TRUTH matter? Jn14:6/ 17:17 How about false teachings that Jesus and Paul addressed many times? Mt24:11. We should speak the same thing. 1Cor1:10. Also, 2Pt 3:10 Is a literal passage. It's the Last day. Jn6:39-40,44,54. It's also the DAY of wrath. Rev6:17 DAY. Rm2:5 Day. Zeph1:15,18 DAY. It's also the time of Jacobs trouble. Jer30:7 DAY. To God be the Glory
If a man has been teaching a false doctrine for some time,will he humble himself and ask God's forgiveness and openly correct himself,or try to lie out of it as Ellen G did and say God was wrong? God forbid we better fear & Revere God
Sadly, it looks more and more likely to be deliberate. One or even two errors could be mistakes, but this is repeated over and over again. I find even the idea of confirmation bias doesn't explain how and why this could happen so consistently.
I'm always willing to give anyone the benefit of the doubt and a review of our exchanges will show that I certainly gave Lee multiple opportunities to correct his errors. My initial concerns were more than validated by his reactionary posturing. He very rudely belittles any who don't agree with him, transparently gas-lighting everyone who refuse to turn a blind eye to his dishonesty. He has blocked and removed dozens of brothers and sisters simply for asking valid questions. I offered to have a debate or a simple public discussion in his home church, with his pastor as moderator. He is not willing to be transparent or accountable in the least bit. Sadly, this has all led me to conclude what is rather obvious: he is a genuine wolf in sheep's clothing.
@@JoelRichardson Due to a rather rough upbringing and other life experiences, I usually don't give people the benefit of the doubt... My trust in someone has to be earned... There are very few people I trust to give me the Word of GOD... Quite frankly, I am so nauseated by MOST preachers/pastors on the Internet... People who speak against the "Pre-tribulation Rapture" are few and far between... The fact that MOST pastors/preachers can't even get the day of the Sabbath correct... The fact that MOST pastors/preachers call the Feasts of YeHoVaH "Jewish Feasts" and dismiss them... When I pick up the Scriptures and read them, what they preach does not even resemble what has been written... I went to church (a few churches actually) for a very brief period of time and was very disheartened and disappointed at how little the pastors actually knew the Bible as opposed to how much they regurgitated their denomination's doctrines... May I NEVER again hear one who says: "We're gonna fly any moment!" "The Law is a curse!" "Paul did away with the Law!" "Jeezus nailed the Law to tha cross!" "Jesus IS our Sabbath"... ""Those curses and the judgements are for tha Joos, NOT tha church" "You can't be following those Laws of Moses, you're gonna fall from grace!"
I really liked your views on the rapture..Isaiah 24 needs to be preached as loud as possible. No matter what Bible you read Isaiah 24, its every one, all..this should wake everyone up. Thank you.
Read Isaiah 26:19-21. The sequence is (1) God raises His People with HIS DEAD BODY, meaning after the Crusifiction (2) God calls HIS PEOPLE into their chambers to hide until the indignation is over (3) Door is shut behind them (4) God punishes the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity
@@evaduvall4215Yep!!! And Philippians 3:20-21, 2 Thessalonians 3:5 says we are to wait PATIENTLY for our vile bodies to be fashioned like Jesus's glorious risen body! See you in the clouds! Maranatha
I try not to get into pre or post with people, but scripture tells me pre wrath. We will be here for trials and tribulations. Now, with that being said, I don't know if these people don't have eyes to see, I just think this is wishful thinking on their part.
Came to conclusion whats point in trying to get people who believe in pretrib to open minds to possibility its a wishful thinking lie and the fault lies with their not wanting discomfort of suffering i just say now if they wrong I hope they are humble enough to not get angry and blame God
Post-trib view understands "The Day of the Lord" to refer exclusively to the “Second Coming” of Christ, which occurs after the 7-year tribulation. On the other hand, Pre-trib view considers "The Day of the Lord" to mean the entire sequence of events of the “7-year tribulation.” I struggle to understand how "The Day of the Lord" is solely connected to the Second Coming of Christ. Firstly, if you study the concept of "The Day of the Lord" in the Old Testament, you will discover that it is not a 24-hour period or an instantaneous event connected only to the Second Coming of Christ. Instead, the prophets repeatedly describe "The Day of the Lord" as a sequence of events leading up to the coming of the LORD. It is a complex series of judgments and not a singular event. Secondly, Jesus Himself confirms this understanding in Matthew 24. He divides the first half of the tribulation (Matthew 24:4-14) from the second half (Matthew 24:15-28), with verse 15 serving as a dividing point. Jesus clearly mentions the Seventieth Week of Daniel (Dan 9:27) here in 24:15, which refers to the future Antichrist setting up an abomination of desolation in the temple. The events described in Matthew 24:4-14 closely resemble the beginning of the Seal judgments in Revelation 6. Jesus uses exactly same Greek words, such as "famines and earthquakes" (24:7), "will kill you" (24:9), which correspond to the Seal judgments' description of "kill by sword, famine, and plague" (Rev 6:8), and "There was a great earthquake" (Rev 6:12). Furthermore, Jesus describes the second half of the tribulation with the presence of false messiahs and false prophets performing “signs” and wonders to “deceive” people (Matt 24:24). These same Greek words for "signs" and "deceive" appear in Revelation 13 when it describes the actions of the Beast in the second half of the tribulation. The 7-year tribulation begins with the Seal judgments and concludes with the Bowl judgments. Thus, we see Jesus mentioning this entire 7-year tribulation as a sequence of events in Matthew 24. The fact that Matthew 24:4-28 encompasses the entirety of "the Day (ἡμέρα) of the Lord" is confirmed by Jesus' statement, "But immediately after the tribulation of those days (ἡμέρα)" (24:29), people will witness the coming of the Son of Man: the Second Coming (24:30). The Second Coming occurs "after" the "Day (ἡμέρα) of the Lord," specifically, "immediately after the tribulation of those days (ἡμέρα)." Therefore, it is unreasonable to equate "the Day of the Lord" solely with the singular event of the "Second Coming of Christ." Jesus Himself even emphasized that when individuals observe "all these things," they should recognize that He is near (24:33). "All these things" refers to the entire sequence of events during the tribulation (the Day of the Lord, 24:4-28). The Second Coming is preceded by specific and clear "signs," similar to how people can anticipate the approach of summer (24:32). However, Jesus changes the topic (peri de) starting in 24:36, stating, "But of that day (ἡμέρα) and hour no one knows." The Day of the Lord, the tribulation, is a "signless" event without visible signs. The most compelling evidence supporting the understanding that the Day of the Lord encompasses the entirety of the 7-year tribulation comes from Paul's words in 1 Thessalonians 5. Paul describes the day (ἡμέρα) of the Lord as coming upon unbelievers suddenly, "like labor pains (ὠδίν) on a pregnant woman," and they will not escape (5:3). It is noteworthy that the "onset" of the Day of the Lord is the same as what Jesus referred to as the "onset" of the tribulation in Matthew 24: "All these are the beginning of birth pains (ὠδίν)" (24:8). Both Paul and Jesus affirm that the Day of the Lord is not a singular event but a sequence of events (7 years) leading up to the Second Coming. Both Jesus and Paul affirm that the "onset" of the Day of the Lord signifies only the beginning of birth pains. Unbelievers cannot "escape" the Day when it begins and the sequence of events unfolds. Paul further states, "But you (second person: believers), brethren, are not in darkness, that the day (ἡμέρα) would overtake you like a thief" (5:4). The onset of "that day" cannot seize believers violently because Paul explained in the preceding context that they will be "caught up" to be with the Lord (4:17). Furthermore, if we equate the Day with Christ's Second Coming, it becomes difficult to comprehend how unbelievers can say "peace and safety" (5:3) and live their lives normally just before the Second Coming of Christ, given that they are currently experiencing the terrible wrath of God during that time. Lastly, look at 2 Thessalonians 2. Some of the Thessalonians were disturbed by a report claiming that the day of the Lord had arrived (2:2). If, in this context, the day of the Lord is synonymous with the second coming, then it would be impossible for them to be shaken in mind. Instead of being troubled, they should have rejoiced that the Day of the Lord had come! If the Christians had mistakenly believed, based on Paul's previous teaching, that they were currently going through the tribulation and held a post-tribulationist view, they would have likely been rejoicing rather than troubled by the idea of sudden deliverance. When we consider the overall context of 1-2 Thessalonians, the only logical explanation is as follows: The Thessalonians had been previously taught that the rapture would occur before the day of the Lord. The lie they heard just before Paul wrote his second letter to them suggested that the day of the Lord had come, and being informed of the day of the Lord's arrival necessarily implied that they had missed the rapture. This would undoubtedly be disconcerting, and it would have shaken the Thessalonians from their composure. The pre-tribulational rapture is not lacking in biblical support and evidence. In fact, there is ample evidence to support it. Viewing 1 Thessalonians 4-5 in its entirety, the pre-tribulation position appears to be the most natural reading.
If the pre-Tribulation reading is "the most natural reading", if the "truth" of the pre-Tribulation Rapture is so overwhelmingly obvious, why is there not a _single_ early church father of any significance who taught it? The church fathers (the ones who weren't influenced by the Alexandrian allegorical interpretative method) derived the doctrine of chiliasm/premillennialism from the canonical Scripture, so they were correct on that, but they _all_ taught a post-Tribulation Rapture. Any proponent of the pre-Tribulation Rapture doctrine up until about twenty years ago even admitted as much. The best that propagators of the pre-Tribulation Rapture idea can dredge up in the realm of historical evidence are some obscure excerpts from the church fathers that are actually more in line with a mid-Tribulation or pre-wrath Rapture.
Ahhh Joel; one resurrection?? [22:57] The first res. is for the righteous who died in Christ, at the rapture. The SECOND res. occurs at the White Throne Judgement After the Millennium,"blessed are those who are in the first res". Some who died during the Millenium and are in the book of life will go into eternity with God, but primarily the Second res. is for the wicked of all time who are judged to the lake of fire. The Good and the Wicked are NOT raised together at his second coming, as you seemed to be saying. Please correct me if I misunderstood you! Read the book of Revelations not pseudo - E who does not believe in a Millennial reign of Christ, he skips over it. Why would you agree with him?
@@JoelRichardson Yes Rev. 20 proves there are 2 resurrections. Not One for both the good and the wicked at the same time as you seemed to say. Again I agree with most of what you are saying, but when something doesnt sound right I will ask for clarification. Pseudo E believes in only 1 res. because he does not believe in the Millennium, only the coming of God/Christ at the White Throne Judgement, so naturally both the good and wicked would be raised at the same time in his view, which is totally unscriptural. Unfortunately several denominations believe that false teaching.
@@JoelRichardson yes it appears that it does occur at the second coming when the multitudes return with Christ to receive their glorified bodies along with the saints who died during the great tribulation persecution. But would you also agree that the "rest of the dead" primarily the 'wicked' are part of the second resurrection [the second death] at the great white throne judgement After the millennium?
@@wendy-mae Where does the Bible say that the elders are the church? IT DOESN'T. In fact, they are serving God, (while the souls of the slain humans are under the alter) and handling the prayers of the saints. This is a HEAVENLY function, not a human one. Some say these are angels which are representing the family of God as 12 Apostles and 12 tribes of Israel. The bottom line is, YOU DO NOT KNOW who they are, so you cannot just assert that they are the church, and that they are "different" from the church in Rev. 6:9. (Different means not the same. So, not the church in the first case. Since the second group *are* identified as the souls of BELIEVERS. That means part of the church. The word church was ONLY used to describe a specific local BODY of believers, or the universal church (all believers.) INDIVIDUAL MEMBERS OF THE CHURCH Are called saints, the elect, servants, martyrs, or "my people."
@@DianaSzucs-jv7yo Thank you for reaction. Although i do not fully understand the meaning of it. (Sorry ,english is not my native language.) I was reaction on someone elses post. I did not say different,i said ‘there is a difference’ between them. And there is for that moment' and the reason why i said that is because the elders are already in heaven, around the throne at the start of the tribulation, before the book and seals where openend. Rev 5. And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof. The saints under the throne are not mentioned until after the opening of the fifth seal. Rev 6.And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: that’s the difference. Who the elderly are? i don’t think they are angels:they are mentioned apart, for instance rev 7:11And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God, All through the bible elderly or the elders are humans with a beautiful God given function, so, i am not sure what the elderly in heaven are. Finally, all believers,wether you call them saints, church or body of Christ, are one in Christ.
@@wendy-mae There are heavenly creatures that are not angels. The Beasts that cry, "Holy! Holy! Holy! constantly are an example. The fact that the souls under the throne were not mentioned before Rev. 6 does not mean that they were not there before the events of Rev 6. It just means that John did not notice or mention the before. If the 24 elders were humans, why were there only 24? They cannot be the church. I agree that all are one in Christ, but I thought you were a pretrib believer? They claim that God divides his people into what amounts to a caste system where the first and last to believe are a lower level from the ones who believed between the 1st century and the tribulation. They sincerely believe that the last to believe "deserve to suffer" and the first to believe were somehow saved by works rather than grace, so they are not part of the church. This idea is not biblical at all. I must have been confused by what you wrote.
@@DianaSzucs-jv7yo Yes i think i am more pre trib , not completely sure but in my opinion it is certainly not something we shoud argue about. The way you describe pretribbers is certainly not the way i think. Or have ever heard of from any other pretribber. One of many reasons why i tend to think there is a pretrib rapture has to do with the fact that bible is clear that we are not appointed to wrath . The difference between tribulation caused by men and the devil and the great tribulation is that the tribulation in revelation is about the wrath of God coming on the world. It has nothing to do with works, it’s only Christ, only grace. It has absolutely nothing to do ‘castes’ or deserving to suffer or any of that. It is the bible that says that we are not appointed to wrath, for instance :1 thess 5:1-9 is very clear verse 9For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, 1 thess 1:10 And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come. Revelation is about God’s wrath during the seven year tribulation. But again , if not so, if otherwise, my hope is in Jesus and we should not argue as children of God.
Yes. Christ tells us that His appearing would surprise the world, and will surprise us also IF we're not spiritually prepared. You and I are expected to know the signs indicating His soon appearing, and to prepare accordingly.
How dare you revile a man of God like that! Your accusations are demonic! You need to really check yourself. This man loves Jesus, and false teachers don’t love Jesus. Men of God don’t try to deceive believers! Check yourself!!
Who? Joel? No no no... he's right actually. Pre trib is only taught in the west and It's not in the Bible. I've looked. I used to be pre trib bc that's all I was taught but Jesus and Paul teach the opposite.
I just heard Jack Hibbs just teach that the day of the Lord is 7+ years long. He includes the whole tribulation and any time from his pre tribulation rapture till the start of the tribulation as the day of the Lord. Never heard that before.
It's a forced claim for pre trib. Even though the bible NEVER refers to the 7 years and tribulation as the same thing. It's not backed by anything but it's necessary to fill in the obvious problems they face.
@@mikehaney6922 Yep, the 70th week of Daniel is a 7 year period, but biblically , there is ONLY the 70th week of Daniel and there is the Great Tribulation (Jacob's trouble). I can't find a "7 year Tribulation" period in my bible. So, let's just think about the so-called "7 year Tribulation" period. IF, as is claimed, the 70th week of Daniel equates to the Day of the Lord being 7 years long, God will pour out His wrath and KILL and MARTYR HIS OWN PEOPLE. This can't be true because we are told in 1 Thessalonians 5:9, that we (believers) are not appointed to God's wrath. Something is definitely not right, as I know the Word of God is pure Truth.
I refuse to call those who teach this false doctrine a brother , it is written “ thou shalt not bear false witness “ and this is the very teaching it is and what communion has light with darkness ? If a man brings another doctrine which was not delivered by the men in our Holy Bible , we are not to have fellowship with those !
When someone claims that they have it all figured out, their word is absolute and point fingers accusing the brethren, stay clear, he is now playing the part of the adversary. I might not agree with midtrib, post trib or pretrib, but if the essentials and fundamentals are correct then we are brothers in Christ. And by the way, all teachings concerning the rapture, the being caught up, take the position that the event is the resurrection!!! 1Cor 15- the resurrection is part of the gospel!
2 Peter 3:15 through 17 - 15Consider also that our Lord’s patience brings salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom God gave him. 16He writes this way in all his letters, speaking in them about such matters. Some parts of his letters are hard to understand, which IGNORANT AND UNSTABLE PEOPLE DISTORT, AS THEY DO THE REST OF THE SCRIPTURES, to their own destruction. 17Therefore, beloved, since you already know these things, be on your guard so that you will not be CARRIED AWAY BY THE ERROR OF THE LAWLESS and fall from your secure standing. Preachers/pastors have been twisting the Scriptures for centuries to support their erroneous claims: The Laws of GOD/Commandments do not apply to "Christians"... The 7th Day Sabbath is only for "Jews"... The "Christian" Sabbath is the 1st Day... The Feasts of YeHoVaH (a.k.a. "Jewish Feasts") are not for "Christians"... You can quote Scripture after Scripture to refute these errors, but changing someone's mind about what they want to believe is extremely difficult... It's always the same thing... You can read word for word what the Messiah stated, but for some reason folks always go back to the same thing: "But Paul said"...
I was hoping to learn something. Why are you not showing the scriptures addresses? For me, it would be 31:5532:01 more helpful to teach post tribulation according to scripture than to refute pre-trib rapture by showing Lee’s or any other person’s quotes. I want to believe the Truth of the Word of God period. I have no desire to have my ears ticked by arguments that are not supported by the Word, whether it’s Lee or anyone else. I think most people really want to know the truth ans not be deceived by anyone whether if feels good or not.
He has many videos explaining and expounding on the many scriptural proofs of a post trib rapture (or prewrath at best.) But refuting false teaching matters. Look at how quickly the cults gain followers when the church is slow to refute them.
@@DianaSzucs-jv7yo - I agree that we have to refute false teachings. I just need to study the scripture more for myself. I am responsible for what I believe that’s taught so I’ll know the Truth went it’s taught by others. Thank you for your comment.
Ah man...how sad 😢. The dying belief of once saved always saved is being thrown out the window.. 😢. Very few of us left that believe in once saved always saved. Which, ironically, is the correct Bible position. The belief is being fizzled out, but I'm keeping the hope of forever saved alive in my house by passing on the biblical tradition to my kids before nobody believes in it anymore
It seems he uses his opinion rather than scripture to come up to conclusions. You cannot come up with a rapture 1290 days after something by doing anything other than guessing.
Nowhere in scripture will you find "7 Years Tribulation." Remember?? The covenant is "broken?" Jesus made a short work of it. 1,335 days Tribulation of The Saints. 1,260 of those days "clothed" in the Team Up.
Two people can look at the same thing and see it differently. There are some who can prove the Rapture with scripture. And there are others who can prove there is no Rapture with scripture. It’s how you interpret it.
Then they that feared the LORD spake often one to another: and the LORD hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before Him for them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon His name. *And they shall be Mine, saith the LORD of hosts, in that day when I make up My jewels* 💎; *and I will spare them,* as a man spareth his own son that serveth him. Then shall ye return, and discern between the righteous and the wicked, between him that serveth God, and him that serveth Him not. (Malachi 3:16-18) Wilt thou set thine eyes upon that which is not? *For riches* 💎 *certainly make themselves wings; they fly away as an eagle toward heaven.* (Proverbs 23:5)
Jesus himself said that the 1st resurrection or rapture is immediately after the tribulation of those days and not before. If anybody can fabricate and twist scripture to show a pre-trib resurrection, then you're calling Jesus a liar
*Arise, shine; for thy light is come, and the glory of the Lord is risen upon thee.* For, behold, the *DARKNESS* shall cover the earth, and *GROSS DARKNESS* the people: *But the Lord shall arise upon thee, and His glory shall be seen upon thee.* (Isaiah 60:1-2) *Who are these that fly as a cloud, and as the doves to their windows? Surely the isles shall wait for Me,* and the ships of Tarshish first, to bring thy sons from far, their silver and their gold with them, *unto the name of the Lord thy God, and to the Holy One of Israel, because He hath glorified thee.* (Isaiah 60:8-9)
Joel I’m not sure if you will get this message but I have many Calvinist friends who believe in the Amillennial eschatology. You mentioned that it was the dominant view held by the church for most of its history. Do you have a video explaining this position and how it was adopted? If not do you know somewhere I could go to get some education?
We don't need any supposed "early church fathers" or anyone else to support a pretrib rapture. A rapture argument is Not something you "win". The believers see it as something that is hidden in plain sight. The ones that deny do not. Our personal conditioning plays a large part on which way we go.
I was raised pretrib. My father was an Independant, pretrib, OSAS, KJV-O Baptist preacher. But I could not find the reassurance of an escape in the Bible. The "evidence" I was given all required verse twisting, ignoring grammar, cutting out parts of the Bible as "not for us", and pretending that historical narratives and parables all meant something that was not stated. The clincher is this: Amos declared that God will do nothing unless he first makes it KNOWN to his prophets. Revealed, published, laid bare. This is the opposite of IMPLIED but never stated.
Knowledge of truth is the primary safeguard against deception. The elect must know, and they must learn to test and prove the spirits until they do know what is of God and what is of Satan. The words of the Master, Take heed, I have told you, plainly imply that personal knowledge of danger is part of the Lord's way of guarding His own. Those who blindly rely upon the keeping power of God without seeking to understand how to escape deception, when forewarned to take heed by the Lord, will surely find themselves entrapped by the subtle foe. It's so important to get revelation from the scriptures and not man, or the traditions of man! There is only 1 Second coming of Jesus Christ! Jesus only teaches 2 resurrections! One resurrection of the righteous and 1 resurrection of the unrighteous. John 5:28-29 Blessed is he who takes place in the 1st resurrection! If there is only 1 resurrection of the righteous when does it have to take place for ALL the saints to be included? Can't be 7 years before the tribulation. It has to be at the end for ALL the saints to receive a new glorified body. Please seek the Lord in His Holy Word and His Spirit shall lead into all truth. 1 John 2:27! God Bless!
@@seekingtruth1508 go away spammer. I know you're one of those posting once a day "watch out for handy manny" on videos. Go WASTE yes WASTE your time on someone else's videos, or perhaps accomplish something HELPFUL for once. You're no more useful than date setters.
@Seeking Truth you are "exposing" your own nonsense, And it is precisely your kind of nonsense that distracts believers and turns away potential believers
We did several sessions explaining the Scriptural reasons why a Pretrib rapture is unbiblical. Now, we are exposing how some dishonest brokers in the pretrib camp are trying to twist the words of the early Church.
I don’t know what I am. Definitely see believers not experiencing wrath, = to me the Bowl Judgments, but preTribbers generally say ALL 7 yrs is wrath & they like to mix the Great Trib period (last 3.5 yr of Beast’s reign) as all 7 yrs as well. We do see the 144,000 in their white robes (glorified?) standing w/Jesus on one of the mounts, but I haven’t decided where that event is on the timeline . Scripture says they are part of first resurrection. PreTribbers verses for the rapture seem to all have words: The Day of the Lord, That Day, Son of man coming, sun darkened, etc as Rapture verses. But if you do a study of The Lords Day, you find it’s: wrath, vengeance, terrible, judgment & sun darkened, others. This indicates to me THE DAY OF LORD begins basically AT HIS COMING. I also look at Seal 6 as basically the sign of His coming, sun darkened, moon to blood, stars falling etc - every eye will see. And those verses used for rapture, if look in context, the disciples or ppl are ASKING about when is your COMING (to reign, to be conquering king, to execute judgment). Regarding Seal 7, QUIET in Earth for 1/2 hour: My GSon was playing sounds of planets, sounds of comets, moons etc. Whether real or not, I asked him, do you think at the 1/2 hr of silence will the HEAVENS will be silent too? He considered & said yes. Me too, but I had never realized there were SOUNDS in Heaven! It was an understanding moment. Blessings!
Because of a difference of opinion on this, why would you call pre-Trib believers , "weirdos"? By the way, Lee isn't the only one you need to refute. You have such a multitude, it's too big a job for you.
As far as I can ascertain, preribbers believe that "tribulation saints" who are still alive at the (real) Second Coming will not be raptured but will live on physically into the millennium so that they can have children and populate the earth.
Someone has to populate the Millennium Age with children and grandchildren. We rule over Someone during the Millennium Age who is in their vile bodies...
PRETRIB Rapture VS VS POST TRIB Contrasts Between Comings The Rapture is characterized in the New Testament as a “translation or resurrection coming” (1 Cor. 15:51-52; 1 Thess. 4:15-17) in which the Lord comes for His church, taking her to His Father’s house (John 14:3). On the other hand, Christ’s Second Advent with His saints (the Church=Rev. 19) descends from heaven and arrives on earth to stay and set up His Messianic Kingdom (Zech. 14:4-5; Matt. 24:27-31). The differences between these two events are harmonized naturally by the pre-trib position, while other views are not able to comfortably account for such differences. Paul speaks of the Rapture as a “mystery” (1 Cor. 15:51-54), that is, a truth not revealed until it was disclosed by the apostles (Col. 1:26). Thus the Rapture is said to be a newly revealed mystery, making it a separate event. The Second Coming, on the other hand, was predicted in the Old Testament (Dan. 12:1-3; Zech. 12:10; 14:4). The New Testament teaches about the Rapture of the church and yet also speaks of the Second Coming of Christ. These two events are different in a number of ways. Note the following contrasts between the translation at the Rapture and Christ's Second Coming to establish the kingdom. Rapture/Translation 1 Translation of all believers 2 Translated saints go to heaven 3 Earth not judged 4 Imminent, any-moment, signless does not need a sign 5 Not in the Old Testament 6 Believers only 7 Before the day of wrath 8 No reference to Satan 9 Christ comes for His own 10 He comes in the air 11 He claims His bride 12 Only His own see Him 13 Tribulation begins 2nd Coming/ Estab. Kingdom 1 No translation at all 2 Translated saints return to earth 3 Earth judged & righteousness established 4 Follows definite predicted signs including tribulation 5 Predicted often in Old Testament 6 Affects all men 7 Concluding the day of wrath 8 Satan bound 9 Christ comes with His own 10 He comes to the earth 11 He comes with His bride 12 Every eye shall see Him 13 Millennial Kingdom begins Scripture concludes that these “contrasts should make it evident that the translation of the church is an event quite different in character and time from the return of the Lord to establish His kingdom, and confirms the conclusion that the translation takes place before the tribulation. Both events mention clouds symbolizing a heavenly role in both, but other differences demonstrate that these are two distinct events. At the Rapture, the Lord comes for His saints (1 Thes. 4:16); at the Second Coming the Lord comes with His saints (1 Thes. 3:13). At the Rapture, the Lord comes only for believers, but His return to the earth will impact all people on earth may this help you all brothers and sisters in Christ
Fortunately since this is obviously a copy and paste, I will say with no remorse that what you just claimed is simply false. Your entire basis is that there are differences in the verses, therefore the answer must be different events, but even the ones you claim are 2nd comings have differences, yet despite these you will claim they are the same. This is a double standard. This inconsistency is precisely what makes it so preposterous. FYI, the verse never says the "rapture is a mystery" it says the mystery is that not everyone would "sleep" or DIE at that moment in time, but would be changed regardless. So to reiterate, 99% of your entire comment seems to be you just claiming differences that prove they are different, yet conveniently ignore that even the verses you would claim are 2nd coming verses HAVE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN THEM. If you were consistent with your line of thought, you would then arrive at several more "comings" not just a single preliminary rapture and then the 2nd coming.
It's His 3rd coming. He ascended into Heaven to show Himself to The Father, then He let Thomas touch Him. He didn't let Mary touch Himself at the tomb.
God wants us to unite in His way not in man's way. Still remeber what happen to Nimrod when he said let us unite so they reach God.. well too bad coz God went down and confused them..
I am not preeTrib. I follow FAI and believe in preWrath. I just hate this division. Things are ramping up and we need each other. I would hope as we go down this road we can embrace each other, help each other, Love one another.
I’d like to see this debate. From this video alone I’m not convinced Pseudo Ephraim is saying what you were saying he’s saying. I don’t necessarily care what pseudo Ephraim is saying in terms of what I see in the writings of Jesus and the Apostles though. And I’m with you Joel and love your stuff and support your work. Keep it up!
This verse you’re showing is an example of the PreTribbers mixing the Great Trib as all 7 yrs of Tribulation. Jesus clearly says, WHEN you SEE the Abomination of Desolation standing in the Holy Place, THEN there will be Great Tribulation, such as the earth has never seen. Matthew 24.15 - 21. The Abomination doesn’t happen until the MIDPOINT. This event is when the 7th King becomes the 8th King - 8th King= Bottomless Pit verses. After he becomes the 8th King, he comes out of Temple ‘healed’ & proclaims he’s god. This is the beginning of the Beasts 3.5 yr reign & it will be a time of GREAT tribulation (bc he’s so bad) & also when he’s given authority to persecute the saints. I’ve seen preachers speak of the Great 7 yr Tribulation, & then in another podcast speak of the GREAT Trib correctly. I do think they obfuscate scripture to fit their argument FOR pre-Trib rapture. That said, other of their teachings are on point. I appreciate these pastors/teachers in that they are at least discussing the end time & Jesus’ return when most churches have never approached the subj, thereby deceiving millions. Problem is their emphasis is on a rapture & not on Jesus’ RETURN. Blessings!
NO one is talking about him, but what he speaks must be according to the Word of God and not taking scripture out of context. There is NO PRE TRIB RAPTURE PERIOD.
@@michaellow625 I happen to agree with him and the pre-tribulation rapture view. It isn't a salvation issue though, I can hold love for both Lee's and FAI's channel
I’ve been on the fence about the rapture. But every video you post is almost antagonistic against anyone that believes differently. I believe I will continue listening to another person I follow that believes the same as you. But with love.
Philippians 1:15-18 Some indeed preach Christ even of envy and strife; and some also of good will: The one preach Christ of contention, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my bonds: But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel. What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice.
@@JoelRichardson I’ve been following your ministry for years Joel, not once have I ever felt in my spirit that you have taught out of anything other than a love for Christ. I do truly thank you for your ministry.
Why do you want the church to suffer in the great tribulation? Is it great tribulation comforting to you? "Wherefore comfort one another with these words." 1 Thessalonians 4:18 KJV
When Paul talks about "comfort one another with these words", he spoke of the resurrection, that we see those who've already passed at that time. We'll be here for the Great Tribulation. Time for us to get ready, God's way.
You are buying into the New Age and Prosperity Gospel Law of Attraction. BELIEVING in a pretrib rapture will not make it happen. BELIEVING that the church must face the tribulation will not make that happen! GOD has already decided what happens and to whom. He told us, in the Bible. We can accept that or go on listening to what men THINK should happen. But, refusing to believe we could ever be expected to stub a toe aiding others in tribulation will NOT create a prepared or acceptable servant of God.
Unbiased translated manuscripts of the early Church Fathers teachings are available, but it does take a little time and research. I believe you are like I am and have to see it for yourself, which is the best way when formulating an opinion. One thing we need to be careful about and remember when we interpret the early church writers----they were supersessionistic (i.e. they believed in replacement theology). One relevant example is that the early church fathers often interpreted Daniel’s references to “the holy people'' not as national Israel, but as the church (or a mixture of the two). With that all said, the early Church Fathers are just a general source and should not be solely relied upon as absolute truth, but they were closer timewise to the original source------Christ's teachings. Have a blessed day.
Get the truth only from the bible. What this man says needs to be confirmed, BY YOU, from the pages in the bible, during PERSONAL bible reading and prayer. When the Holy Spirit teaches you personally, it is real knowledge !
How about we all prepare for the coming of our Lord instead of squabbling over when that might be? Let us each one return to our first love. If we do that, we will walk in love and find no reason to squabble over a non-salvific issue. God bless you!
exactly as the end appears close we should be comforting others with the eternal hope we have in Christ the Lord bringing them to a point of salvation, not driving them away with all this rapture nonsense. Yes it will be, but No One knows when. All these 'ideas' are man made.
@Perfectly Loved with respect, it certainly does divide the church, which is clear in the comment sections, even to the point of people accusing others of not being saved. We would be better served with teachings about repentance and walking with God, abiding in Christ. When our discernment grows and our walk with God deepens, we are no longer confused about Scripture. God bless you.
@@Jesus_saves1990 I agree we should never compromise God’s commands and precepts for the sake of unity, and many of those compromisers are Christian in name only and not part of the Body of Christ. Any person whose hearts is far from God is not Part of His body. When talking about reasons to divide, we are not to divide over non-salvific issues (such as rapture or not, Holy Spirit gifts, for instance) because it is possible to be a believer and have differing beliefs about both of those things. The body of Christ needs to act more like a body and less like a boxing ring. We need to rise above competition and pride and learn to be patient with one another, loving one another and serving one another. We need to pray for and embody meekness. God is not pleased when Christians bash each other in comment sections and it is a terrible witness to a lost world. The chances of changing someone’s mind in a comment are probably less than 1%. It’s primarily a pride parade and it is not pleasing to the Lord.
@christincommon5496 it is true that we should not insult, and yes it is not a salvation issue, but it is still important to inform. So many especially pre trib will claim it is a salvation issue and equate it with their belief in Jesus and that if they question the timing they question their faith and they will live their lives never considering otherwise. It is one thing to be wrong and face it but it is another thing to be wrong but aware of what is right. Your faith will save you if it is genuine but it certainly will not help if people live ignorant of the different interpretations given for these issues. How many will fall away if pre trib doesn't happen and they considered a pre trib rapture a salvation issue? Will they deny their faith? Or just insist its not the tribulation? I don't care if you believe in pre trib as long as you are willing to be open
Revelation 3:10 NKJV [10] Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth. The Lord says He will rapture us to keep us from the last seven years, the time of Jacob's trouble (Jer. 30:7) for Israel still needs to realise that Yeshua is their messiah and all the promises must still come true that God made to them. This Tribulation is not for the church. The church goes through tribulations, especially with all the Christians being murdered by Jihadist here in Africa, but not through the Tribulation that is going to come upon the whole earth.
This is why the rapture discussion has nothing to do with your salvation. It's simply two men (Lee and Joel) discussing when they believe the body is resurrected to immortality. So we shouldn't be beating them down as if it was really critical to salvation. That issue was settled at the cross of Calvary. The rapture is what settled the physical body issue. The only thing the correct rapture view is critical to is whether your neighbor gets saved in a timely manner. Both Lee and Joel will go up when the call comes (pre, mid or post) but the people around them are going to be really confused by the one who guess incorrectly. For example, if Lee is wrong, and its not pre-trib, then his Christian followers are disappointed that Lee wasn't preparing them for more hardship. They just suck it up and move to a mid-trib stance. Maybe some fall away, but the advantage is that Lee is still around to learn and talk with them. Lee's non-Christian followers also get the advantage of Lee hanging around and telling them that he was wrong but that he will help them lead them to Christ since he now has more time on the planet and can recognize that its the Tribulation now. He will also be able to pick up the phone and tell Joel that he was wrong and could use his help retaining as much of the flock as possible. Joel of course, will be happy to help, since he is such a nice Christian guy. If Joel is wrong, his Christian followers (along with himself) are pleasantly surprised when the pre-trib rapture occurs. No skin off their noses. However, his non-Christian followers are going to be very confused because they were told it wasn't going to occur until 7 years later and now he is not around to explain anything to them. So they are basically left on their own, against a world system, that will be filled with darkness and deception, to figure out what really happened. They don't get the home court advantage of Joel's teaching because they are left trying to figure out why he isn't around to go through the hardship with them. They will feel incredibly betrayed. It will make God's work of saving people during the Tribulation more difficult because let's face it you lied to them. They will be very mistrusting. So you have to really pray and seek wisely, because if you are wrong, there is either some crow to eat, or you leave many people around you seriously confused. Or you can just get smart and be prepared and teach that all three (pre, mid an post) are very real possibilities and a good Christian is someone who prepares for all three phases starting with pre-trib (since it is first on the probability timeline).
The thing is, these ain't stupid people. So are they deceived, or are they deceivers? Idk. But I DO know they're not stupid. Either way, I think it's better to be patient with people who think dumb things - lots of people think dumb things about all kinds of stuff. It still bugs me, some days. Then I remember I don't know it all, lol - what am I deceived about that they've figured out, right?
All this talk about pre vs post....not a single one gives a proper definition of "tribulation. " The reason why there's arguments is because nobody gives definitions before giving a talk. So please, give definitions BEFORE giving your arguments
i enjoy post trib series, no one really focuses on it after their 1 sermon. pre tribbers get me everytime, when they keep coming up with new reasons why the rapture is any second of any day, how do you say otherwise you dont believe the bible. (actually its you who argue the bible, the bible makes it clear when the rapture is cough cough)
Matthew 24:48-51 KJV But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, 👉 My lord delayeth his coming; 👈 [49] And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken; [50] The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of, [51] And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
@Pre-Tribulation delayed means late. If you believe he is delayed then you believe he is late. Which means you believe he was to come earlier but did not. It's not referencing potential differences between timing relation of rapture beliefs, but of the idea that he could come at any point in your life or not at all and you won't know and to live accordingly and to especially not stop if you think he won't come for a long time. Again, it literally says he comes and there is gnashing of teeth. Pre trib says you get a 2nd chance after he comes in a "pre trib rapture". This verse states nothing of the kind. They're simultaneous. Ten bucks of course you won't address anything and will just insult.
@@handles617 nooooo. You are trying to justify yourself. If you believe Jesus CAN'T come until some nonsense that you have in your mind in the future THEN you may get left behind. Watching means SAVED. Unsaved people don't watch for Jesus to return. If you don't believe Jesus can come back TODAY, like right now, then you become PURE EVIL.
@@handles617 here is Pre-Tribulation Rapture in a nutshell. We are to wait PATIENTLY for our vile bodies to be fashioned like Jesus's glorious risen body, Philippines 3:20-21, 2 Thessalonians 3:5. Jesus also told us not to let our hearts be troubled... See John 14:1-4, he is coming back to receive us to himself, then we go into Heaven. The Tribulation is men's hearts failing them from fear, Luke 21:26. You really need to study more
@Pre-Tribulation and yet I used scripture and actual definition to justify it. Unlike you, who obviously never considered what the literal meaning of delayed is.
QUESTION: Are ALL righteous, Israel & Adopted, in Paradise when they die? Or is it just the Saints? Is this what’s considered, sleeping, dead in Christ? And 2. Is Paradise the Bridal Chamber? And 3. Where is paradise? (2nd or 3rd Heaven?) Thanks Joel!
Revelation 3:10 Just as God kept Noah as God destroyed the Earth, he destroyed the wicked, not the righteous. Just as God kept Lot safe when God destroy Sodom and Gomorrah.. he destroyed the wicked not the righteous. He always keeps HIS people safe... As he said in his word that we are not appointed to Wrath! God will keep HIS people SAFE as he pour out his WRATH on the WICKED! Why would GOD pour out his wrath on the righteous? NOT SO. So however he's going to do it... He will protect his people, and punish the wicked. *Just be ready regardless! 🙏🏾
Gazman67, "Isnt psuedo Ephraim good for a runny nose?" Yes, you take it with a pretrib placebo, and no matter how sick you are, everything seems sunny and bright..
Lee Brainard is in the right...And Joel is not right about what the Bible says regarding the pre-tribulation rapture. Lee explains thoroughly and Joel just talks a lot but has no depth to his answers.
@@victormiesner7804 No Jesus is not wrong...but who was Jesus talking to? He was talking to His jewish disciples. And what was He talking about? He was talking about what would happen to ISRAEL, not the church. Notice all the jewish only references Jesus uses , "the abomination of desolation"..."the temple"..."the sabbath"..."the rooftops"..."the Judean countryside"..."the elect" and even "the fig tree". Remember that His jewish disciples asked Him about Israel again just before He ascended when they asked "Lord at this time are you going to restore the nation of Israel?".
@@CaptainFritz don't care. I am too old, and I am a veteran. They can buy a box of Kleenex and bon bons for all I care. If someone doesn't even know what the Gospel of Salvation is? Then they should ask questions instead of act like they are a theologeon
11:41 I'm extremely well known, bught not "known." DEBATE ME, €noch The Clock ( First to Preach, Last Martyr). The Truth will make you Tremble. Ezekiel 38:17 & Revelation 10:11 Revelation 14:13 "works" is martyrdom. I €noch St. Johnny have been here 8 times, this is the last. "We have an expected end." John was more than a Prophet. DANIEL 12:1 The Baptist is JACOB and... 6 more Thunders.
lol first you pre wrathers or post trivets say we need to find something older than Jb Darby, we find it now you attack that. We shall not all sleep means we won’t all die. Someone’s going to be alive and remaining to be caught up, that’s Paul’s writing in Thessalonians. I’d be more concerned with what revelation has to say about you guys who beats us fellow servants and believe me the most hate I’ve received has never been from a pre triber!
YOU LIE OR WILLING IGNORANCE OR JUST CANT BELIEVE YOU MARK YOURSELF FOR TRIBULATION JOHN 14 :1-3 / TITUS 2:13. CHURCH FATHERS DID NOT WRITE BIBLE APOSTLES
How do you call someone a liar and then insist you’re being respectful? I feel like you’re gaslighting us. I’m having a difficult time hearing the teaching bc it’s so obvious the disdain you carry for this Brainard. Just sayin….
Well, as to be expected, you’re wrong, and you’re just pandering to and feeding the deceived at this point. Some of the hateful comments on this video by those deceived believers are sickening, which speaks volumes. Anyway, while you’re on the path of trying to tear down well-learned brethren on YT, you should try you hand at Dr Barry Awe. 😆👍🏻
The only thing lee shows himself to be well learned at is how to try and appear to be right. It takes a really selfish person to exclude or include words at will without even acknowledging it, especially when it blatantly changes the meaning. Like with what he did wheb he changed "it all" to "at all" which changed it from not all of it to none of it. It's just LYING
The Greatest Sign that we are nearing the end of the Gentile Age and the Rapture of the Church is COUNTERFEIT DECEIVING RELIGIOUS DECEPTION. JUDE 1 3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints. 4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ. These people from above in verse 4 of the book of Jude are from what the world calls Christians, but what God according to his word, has said through the apostle Paul, they are being deceived and are believing another gospel, which is a counterfeit one that can not save them from their sins. What happens if we Preach or accept a different Gospel than Paul preached. Paul preached the Gospel through the revelation of Jesus Christ. I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another Gospel: Which is not another, but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so I say now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you then that ye have received, let him be accursed. But I certify you, brethren that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught. it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ. (Galatians 1:1-12) If any religion or church, or person teaches or adds anything to the gospel of our lord and Saviour Jesus Christ to be saved, they and all who believe in them and trust in them according to the apostle Paul they are accursed. (damned). There is no church or religion on the planet that can save your soul, it can only be found in a person a name above every name the lord Jesus Christ only he can save your soul and give you eternal life, and belong to the one and only church that matters God's church. The gospel of salvation is not sacraments is not liturgy, is not the worship of the eucharist, is not water baptism, not by infant baptism, is not doing good works, not by speaking in tongues, is not penance, is not the mass, is not by worshiping Mary, and is not a rosary and is not by a priest saying the last rites prayer, or by purgatory, not by keeping the law(10 commandments) not by keeping the sabbath not by church membership, not by fasting, and your not saved by tithing giving 10% to the church) or confession of your sins to a priest. If any religion or church or person teaches or adds anything to the gospel of our lord and Saviour Jesus Christ to be saved, they and all who believe in them and trust in them according to the apostle Paul they are accursed. (damned). Here are some religions that add to the gospel for salvation. seventh day Adventist, episcopal church, Judaism, Lutherans, Anglicans, some Pentecostal churches that require speaking in tongues to verify you have the spirit of Christ, catholic church. Jehovah Witnesses, Mormons The gospel is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes (Romans 1:16). It is not based on human traditions, rituals, or works, but on the finished work of Christ on the cross. He died for our sins, was buried, and rose again on the third day, according to the Scriptures (1 Corinthians 15:3-4). The gospel reveals God's love for us and his justice. He loves us so much that he sent his only Son to die in our place, to pay the penalty for our sins and to satisfy his wrath against us (John 3:16). He is also holy and righteous, and he cannot overlook our rebellion and disobedience. He must judge sin and punish the guilty (Romans 2:5-6). The true gospel is not a message of human wisdom, tradition, or religion. It is not based on rituals, ceremonies, or works. It is not a matter of opinion, preference, or feeling. It is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes (Romans 1:16). The true gospel is the message of what God has done for us in Christ. Jesus Christ, the Son of God, died on the cross for our sins, was buried, and rose again on the third day, according to the Scriptures (1 Corinthians 15:3-4). It is the declaration that Jesus Christ is Lord and Savior, who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood (Revelation 1:5). Testifying Both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, Repentance Toward God, and faith Toward our Lord Jesus Christ. acts 20:21). (1 Corinthians 15:3-4). Moreover, brethren, I declared unto you the Gospel which I preached unto you, which also you have received, and wherein you stand, by which also you are saved if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless you have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures, And that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the scriptures: Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace, you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. Revelation 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of kings on earth. To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood ROMANS 3 24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; We receive the holy spirit of Christ when we believe the gospel Ephesians 1:13-14 (ESV) 13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.
I find it distasteful whenever a person that calls themselves a Christian does a whole video refuting another Christians belief on the timing of the rapture. All this does is divide the body of Christ. Lee Brainard loves the Lord dearly, and he preaches the gospel regularly. You'd of done better just doing a video on why you believe in a mid or post trib, or whatever you believe. It's obvious by reading some of these comments that this topic divides Christian and just confuses non believers that need to hear the gospel and how to be saved. Not how another believer is wrong about rapture timing. We need to love one another and lift up each other and share the good news. That's are mission. God bless 🙌
Lee lied that's why. You can't be changing words like this. He added a word to a quote that changed the actual meaning. He claims to have spent thousands of hours preparing one of his books but doesn't notice that adding a word to a quote completely changed his meaning to benefit himself? No, I don't think it was accidental.
@handles617 Matthew 18:15; If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained a brother. I think calling Lee a Liar is a bit strong, and maybe whatever he said was misunderstood or taken out of context, but either way, I don't believe he would purposefully tell a lie and the author of this video should have contacted Lee in private first. And then if he was not satisfied with his explanation, then maybe do a video on it. I'm sure the guy in this video NEVER gets anything wrong...ugh!
@melissatate6518 he did lie. He added words that directly changed the meaning and claimed it as the quoted person's original wording. Joel said he asked him in private, and the guy refused. It's not about being wrong it's about being honest.
Here is what I noticed about post tribber cultists. They are mean as Satan! Post tribber cultists also don't know what the Gospel of Salvation is. I have had a handful get the gospel correct over 10 years of me debating with them.
@@Pre-Tribulation a former pre-trib believer I can tell you I’ve experienced that hate on both sides. It works both ways. The body of believers should not be speaking to each other this way. Debate on viewpoints is one thing, but direct attacks on a person is uncalled for from any viewpoint. Satan wants division and this topic has been doing a great job of that. Sad to see. We can disagree without badmouthing and name calling. At that point it’s an issue of the heart. Any particular view on the rapture doesn’t make you a cultist. There are plenty of scriptures that are debated amongst the genuine body of believers.
"PUTTING UP" as if your position is to go unchallenged w/o question? You're only getting your DOSE of it because you seemingly have at least NOTED the many who offer up refutations to the post-trib position, right? I mean, why not just keep your eyes closed to e/thing going on outside of your little world, 'eh? But seriously... If there were ONE passage that you could bring to a debate to substantiate the "POST" position, what would it be, and why?
2 Thess 2 clearly states that His coming and our gathering to Him is the same day. Matt 24 clearly says AFTER the tribulation. You have two pre-suppositions that will blind you to what Jesus has said: (1) imminency in the way you see it (2) wrath in the way it has been framed to you. Once you have those presups you can’t help but be deceived by the pre-trib lies.
@@mikehasthemic WHAT IS THE GOSPEL OF SALVATION FOR TODAY???? If you can't answer this, then you DON'T HAVE THE HOLY SPIRIT guiding you! I will reject EVERYTHING you post as NONSENSE
No, pre trib is just based on multiple false assumptions(guessing) and combines itself with heavy cherry picking, changing of methodology, and outright ignoring of context
@@handles617 awe... someone doesn't know what the Gospel of Salvation for today actually is... You are going to Hell. Not me... I am eternity Saved. You are just a common lost person
I came here because I know Lee Brainerd personally. He does know what he is talking about and you’d be wise to repent of your lies towards one of God’s servants in Christ!
Just because you "know" someone... Does not qualify them as being right or even know what they are talking about...(both of which has been proven to be untrue based on evidence) If anyone speaks something that goes against what Yeshua the Messiah taught, then they are not speaking the truth... Yeshua NEVER taught that "Christians" would be raptured... He said in John 17:15 - I am not asking that You take them out of the world, but that You keep them from the evil one. This is pretty easy to understand... Throughout Matthew 24, there is NOT ONE WORD about a "Rapture"... Come, let us reason together... John 17:17 - Sanctify them by the truth; Your word is truth. (GOD's Word is Truth) Amos 3:6 through 8 - If a ram’s horn sounds in a city, do the people not tremble? If calamity comes to a city, has not the LORD caused it? 7Surely the Lord GOD does nothing without revealing His plan to His servants the prophets. 8The lion has roared-who will not fear? The Lord GOD has spoken-who will not prophesy? Every prophet tells of a Millennial Kingdom that is ON EARTH, not that we will dwell in Heaven: Revelation 20:1-3, Isaiah 11:9, Isaiah 19:24, Isaiah 11:4, Romans 8:17, Isaiah 11:6, Isaiah 65:20, Ezekiel 48:35, Isaiah 2:2-4, Isaiah 25:7-8, Psalm 68:31-32, Habakkuk 2:14, Psalm 46:8-9, Matthew 26:27-29 The Assembly WILL GO through the Tribulation. Yeshua told us this in NO UNCERTAIN TERMS in Matthew 24. Yeshua is the prophet that we all are to "shema" (hear and obey). Yeshua revealed ALL to ALL of His Apostles, not ONLY to Paul. John 16:15 - Everything that belongs to the Father is Mine. That is why I said that the Spirit will take from what is Mine and disclose it to you. (KJV) - All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you. This is what Yeshua told us in no uncertain terms. Not keeping ANYTHING secret until Paul could help us to "figure out the secret". This was not the secret Yeshua or Paul were speaking of. Pharisees ALL believed in the resurrection. Two secrets: 1. The veil would be torn in two between Jew and Gentile Believers. 2. Those who died believing in Yeshua as the Messiah would rise from the dead and then the Assembly would gather with Yeshua in the clouds. Matthew 24:1 through 11 - 1And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple. 2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. 3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? 👉AND WHAT SHALL BE THE SIGN OF THY COMING, AND OF THE END OF THE WORLD?👈(THIS LEADS INTO WHEN YESHUA TELLS US HE WILL RETURN) 👉4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.👈(LET NO MAN DECEIVE YOU, THE APOSTLE PAUL WAS THE ONLY ONE WE WERE WARNED ABOUT [2 PETER 3:16] And most of Paul's LETTERS have been taken out of context and twisted to change their original content and meaning). 5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. 6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumors of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. 7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. 8 All these are the beginning of sorrows. 9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. 10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. 👉11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.👈(NONE OF THE APOSTLES TAUGHT THE PRE-TRIBULATION RAPTURE. NONE OF THE "CHURCH FATHERS" TAUGHT THE PRE-TRIBULATION RAPTURE UNTIL MARGARET MACDONALD AND JOHN DARBY INVENTED IT. WHY HAD NO ONE ELSE TAUGHT THIS BEFORE 1830?). [1 Timothy 6:3 - 3If anyone teaches another doctrine and disagrees with the sound words of our Lord Jesus Christ and with godly teaching, 4he is conceited and understands nothing. Instead, he has an unhealthy interest in controversies and semantics, out of which come envy, strife, abusive talk, evil suspicions,] AGAIN, NEITHER YESHUA THE MESSIAH NOR ANY OF HIS APOSTLES TAUGHT THIS DOCTRINE. Perhaps YOU should look up how to rebuke a Brother? Joel did this and got no response... YOU need to repent of your accepting lies and defending lies just because you "know someone"... GOD is not a respecter of persons and neither should we be... If you rebuke a wise man, he will thank you. If you rebuke a fool, he will hate you...
Jesus says no one knows the day or the hour John 6 39-54 Jesus says at the Last day four times Jesus dosen't make mistakes Jesus is talking about two different Resurrections There's a thousand years after the First Resurrection So the Resurrection of the church is at judgment day Jesus is Truth Keep the Faith
Yeshua didn't say ANYTHING was given to a "church"... Please refer to Revelation 1-3... It tells of the Saints in the Assemblies... Nothing for "the church" in the entire Bible... Saints are given white robes... The "New Covenant" was given to the House of Israel and the House of Judah" (Jeremiah 31:31 -34 and Hebrews 8:13) Believers in Yeshua the Messiah are SUPPOSED to be "Grafted In" to Israel...
@@bawbjusbawb6471 Revelation 21 24 Two groups of Christians in New heaven Them that are saved and The Kings of the earth Jews that believe in Jesus are Christians
I've been on the fence with this particular subject and have been asking God to show me the truth.. Thank you so much for your teachings! I stayed up last night studying my Bible along with a couple of your teachings and I believe I now think that a Pre-trib rapture teaching could very well be part of the Great Falling Away. It makes sense when you think about it. .. much deception will overwhelm the people in the end days and I believe this is what this is. I've always believed in a pre trib rapture only because it's what I've always been TOLD but when I started actually studying my Bible for myself I have done a complete 180 on Rapture timing.
Rapture Second Coming
Translation of Believers No Translation involved
The Saints go to Heaven The Saints return to the Earth
The Earth is not Judged The Earth is judged
Imminent Not Imminent
Affects Believers only Affect all men on Earth
Before the day of Wrath Concludes the day of wrath
No reference to Satan Satan is bound
He comes in the air He comes to the Earth
He comes for His bride He comes with His bride
Only the saints see Him Every eye shall see Him
The tribulation (wrath) begins The Millenium begins
Rapture - John 14:1-3 - I Cor 15:1-53- I Thes 4:13-18 - Roman 8:19, I Cor 1:7-8, 15: 21-23 - Phil 3:20-21 - Col 3:4 - I Thes 1:10 - I Thes 2:19 - I Thes 5:9-10 , 23 - II Thes 2:1-3 - I Tim 6:14 - Heb 9:28 - James 5:7-9 - I Peter 1:7,13 - I John 2:28 - 3:2 - Jude 21 - Rev 2:25 - Rev 3:10
Second coming - Dan 2:44-45 - Dan 7: 9-14 - Daniel 12:1-3 - Zech 14:1-15 - Mat 13:41 - Mat 24: 15-31 - Mat 26:64 - Mark 13:14-27 - Mark 14:62 - Luke 21: 25-28 - Acts 1:9-11 - Acts 3:19-21 - I Thes 3:13 - II Thes 1: 6-10, 2:8 - II Peter 3:1-14 - Jude 14-15 - Rev 1:7 - Rev 19: 11-20:6 - Rev 22:7, 12
This teaching is endorsed by Hal Lindsey, Perry Stone, John Hagee, David Jeremiah, Mark Biltz, J.D. Farah, Jimmy Evans, Jack Hibbs, Mark Hitchcock, Robert Breaker, Theo Heartsill, Skip Heitzig, Andy Woods, Rabi Schneider, Gary Sterman, Chuck Missler, and at least 100 other names I could list here.
I struggled as well. I used to be pre-trib. After, I thought about the absolute devastation so many will feel when it doesn't happen. How it will greatly shake faith.
Do not be deceived, Christ is clear that He will come 1st when people will be doing business as usual as a thief, and He will come again after the 7th bowl when the world is in complete ruin and people won’t be doing business as usual. It’s written in the gospels that will be alike the days of Noah and Lot.
There are 2 events, one where we are gathered in the clouds, and one when we go with Christ after the 7th bowl. One is when the world is still doing business as usual, another is when the world is in complete ruin and destruction with water as blood and hail falling down from the sky.
Do you think people will be marrying and partying when all water has been turned to blood and there are legions of weird locusts making people suffer for 5 months and millions from the Euphrates killing 1/3 of humanity?
Scriptures are clear, there are 2 different scenarios of gatherings, one before tribulation begins, another when the harvest comes to place. That is scriptural, no way of reconciling this without 2 different gathering, humans are insane nowadays but even so. I don’t see any partying and marrying when stars fall from heaven and earthquakes and fire are coming down from the sky.
I'm sure that there is something significant in the fact Prophecy Watchers turn off comments. They've done it again today. Thank you for being open to discuss things
Thank you for the teachings. It helps us grow as believers. God bless and Maranatha
It is very refreshing to listen to an argument against a pretribulation rapture. Everything I hear is 'pretrib' and have always wanted to hear another take on this event.
The church rapture is absolutely true
John 6 39-54 Jesus says at the Last day four times
Jesus is Truth
Only one day can be Last
The Resurrection of the church is at judgment day
Mystery Babylon added the church to the thousand year reign of Jesus
The thousand year reign of Jesus is promised to the saints that overcome the Mark of the beast
Revelation 20 4 seven descriptions
Revelation 2 & 3 seven letters
LISTEN TO JESUS ONLY
Jesus is Truth Keep the Faith
The resurrection of the whole world will take place on judgment day. Not just the church will be brought back to life at judgment day. That's why they say, born once, die twice; born twice, die once!
@michaelparsons5228That is NOT true. Chapter 2 is him discussing their concerns that they had missed the 2nd coming and that the day of the Lord was upon them. This is why he tells them that THAT DAY(what day? What he had just said at the beginning of the discussion. The COMING(greek word parousia, singular noun, always used in reference to his coming) of the lord and us being gathered to him. Do you notice that he groups his COMING and and our gathering together as a singular day? Pre trib says we are raptured BEFORE their concept of a "7 year day of the lord" yet Paul here says this is WHEN it occurs, not after. Then what does Paul say? He lists 2 things that happen first. The apostasy and the antichrist.
So pre trib has to explain why Paul places specific events before the rapture when they claim nothing is specified to prophetically happen beforehand, and they have to explain why the DAY of the lords coming is grouped with the rapture, and they have to explain why Paul places it after the antichrist.
FYI with all due respect, I know the argument as I used to be pre trib. So before if you decide to answer, it's a bad argument with nothing to back it up.
@michaelparsons5228 "which shows unequivocally that this Church was looking for a pre-Tribulation Rapture"... If they did, they were and are obviously. Scripture does NOT support the star-trek-theology of a 'pre-tribulation' rapture. One has to ravage the text and use a lot of eisegesis to make it say anything in support for Christians being beamed up before tribulation and the return of Christ in the end. The motive behind pretribbing is a carnal desire to be 'saved in the flesh' and not to face tribulation, because of the Faith. But why would tribulation make sense, if there weren't any Christians between the emergence of the beast system and the return of Christ? Pretribbing is preposterous on its faith and I fear the erroneous belief in it, is a lesser one of their problem. The core issue is them having a carnal mind and allowing it to dictate their eisegesis in the process.
@@squirreljones3595 you are NOT SMART! You won't "die for Jesus" in the Tribulation... You will die of starvation or a military drone. You post tribbers cultists are RIDICULOUS
This ghostly invisible after-life world view is one of the major reasons I didn’t look deeper into Christianity in my search as a young girl. I instead looked to eastern philosophy because it seemed deeper and real. Now, I realize our God and the life he wants for us is full of color and excitement and I couldn’t be more excited for his reign on earth. Thank the Lord that he pursues us and reveals himself to each one of us.
“Ghostly invisible after-life world view”???
You do realize that Christianity is deeply spiritual, right? Surely you realize that our Father is “invisible” and so is every angel (spirit) right? Also, you don’t think there are physical bodies already in heaven or hell, do you?
I didn’t know Sadducees still existed…
@@WornDownSaint I was simply saying that the incorrect portrayal of heaven and the after-life as a boring, ethereal, and non-physical place was one of the reasons I didn’t seek Christianity in my youth. It seemed bland and bleak as it was represented to me back then. In my study of the Bible in recent years, I’ve come to know more about our Lord and his intentions for us and the earth. As my relationship with him has deepened, I understand that he is dynamic and deep and colorful and the afterlife will be as well. I’m grateful for teachings such as this one, that point is to the beautiful truth of God. I’m sorry if I was unclear before.
Many folks seeking truth *fail to find* 'cos they're easily led astray by worldly logic, high sensuality, vain imagination or specious mysticisms. I know I was. I'm an ex neo-vedantic (hindu roots) new ager. I used to be into so much "spiritual" stuff: trance channelings, ancient wisdom, gnosticism, psychedelics, hindu gurus and buddhist mystics. I was illuminated by the *kundalini (serpent) spirit* then 7 years ago I got properly enlightened by the *Holy Spirit* which showed me what a fool I was before. Spirit led me to the real *Jesus Christ* and everything changed - paradigm shifted. This is being *BORN AGAIN* and it's an ongoing surprise to me 😁
It escapes the notice of our self-absorbed, glamour-saturated world that we're in a spiritual war for souls. The immensity of ignorance is astonishing: the dark powers bedazzling the minds of the masses (Ephesians 6:12). We've inherited ancient spiritual subversion: the earth is fallen. The holistic fields of nature are fallen state. Life kills and feeds upon itself. Mankind is a spiritually fallen race highly prone to deceit and delusion. Frankly, we need a *Saviour* and by Jesus Christ we have a *Glorious One*
As a new ager I couldn't believe it but in the *Light of Spirit* Jesus really is the *Way, the truth and the Life* just like He said: no one comes to God except through Jesus, there's no other way (Matthew 7:13-14). As a neo-vedantist I wasn't convinced (I was damn sure I knew better) but turns out the Bible is Spirit breathed, written by men inspired by the *Holy Spirit.* Jesus is vividly portrayed and endorsed in the new testament, in fact he's apparent in the old testament too (Luke 24:27 & 44) and by the *Light of Spirit* we're allowed to *see* that and *know Him.* Any previously perceived discrepancies or contradictions are ironed out and the supernatural narrative flows most beautifully. The Bible is the Revelation of Jesus Christ.
@@SpiritLevel888 thank you for this. I don’t encounter many followers of Christ that found him through a genuine search through “new-age” philosophy. How wonderful that he will find seekers wherever they are! I’m grateful for the revelation he has given that brought me out of the worldly bindings that surround us in this fallen world. I’m also grateful for people like you. Thank you for sharing!
@@WornDownSaint What spiritually means in Christianity proper and 'spirituality' in the rest of discourse are two different pairs of shoes. Spiritual Christianity becomes highly practical, when there is fruits of the Spirit in a person. Now with 'Christianity' broad there are various variants of this. There is emotional approaches that strongly focus on experiences and the supposedly miraculous and then there is also highly theoretical debates full of sophistry as well as a legalist/pietist approaches. I'm afraid lots of this is just another form of Flesh cultivation and not the real deal.
This has been a great series thanks FAI👍🏽
Anyone who believes in post Tribulation Rapture is a cult member. FAI is an IDIOT! Matthew 24:48-51 is all your fate
Greatly appreciate a longer video again. 🙂 Thank you for your time and teaching.
I really like that your teachings are rooted so deeply in the actual text not just stating popular opinions. Thank you for that 😊
So so many pastors on the web across this country sadly perpetuate the pre trib deception. This erroneous stance is in every state in small congregations and mega "churches". So thank you for your continued teaching OF THE WORD and the blessed hope at the last day. The entire bible tells us this truth as did Jesus.
Rapture Second Coming
Translation of Believers No Translation involved
The Saints go to Heaven The Saints return to the Earth
The Earth is not Judged The Earth is judged
Imminent Not Imminent
Affects Believers only Affect all men on Earth
Before the day of Wrath Concludes the day of wrath
No reference to Satan Satan is bound
He comes in the air He comes to the Earth
He comes for His bride He comes with His bride
Only the saints see Him Every eye shall see Him
The tribulation (wrath) begins The Millenium begins
Rapture - John 14:1-3 - I Cor 15:1-53- I Thes 4:13-18 - Roman 8:19, I Cor 1:7-8, 15: 21-23 - Phil 3:20-21 - Col 3:4 - I Thes 1:10 - I Thes 2:19 - I Thes 5:9-10 , 23 - II Thes 2:1-3 - I Tim 6:14 - Heb 9:28 - James 5:7-9 - I Peter 1:7,13 - I John 2:28 - 3:2 - Jude 21 - Rev 2:25 - Rev 3:10
Second coming - Dan 2:44-45 - Dan 7: 9-14 - Daniel 12:1-3 - Zech 14:1-15 - Mat 13:41 - Mat 24: 15-31 - Mat 26:64 - Mark 13:14-27 - Mark 14:62 - Luke 21: 25-28 - Acts 1:9-11 - Acts 3:19-21 - I Thes 3:13 - II Thes 1: 6-10, 2:8 - II Peter 3:1-14 - Jude 14-15 - Rev 1:7 - Rev 19: 11-20:6 - Rev 22:7, 12
This teaching is endorsed by Hal Lindsey, Perry Stone, John Hagee, David Jeremiah, Mark Biltz, J.D. Farah, Jimmy Evans, Jack Hibbs, Mark Hitchcock, Robert Breaker, Theo Heartsill, Skip Heitzig, Andy Woods, Rabi Schneider, Gary Sterman, Chuck Missler, Amir Tsarfati and at least 100 other names I could list here.
Dispensationalists will be utterly confounded when future events do not unfold as anticipated. ✔️
You will be utterly confounded when you are raptured and completely embarrassed.
@@chendric77 I stand firmly behind my assessment. ✔️
It'll get bad for them well before the Great Tribulation. Even during the birth pangs, there'll be a falling away described by Christ.
@@chendric77 Cute. You are dogmatic about a thing never ever stated in the Bible; the book which claims, “All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the servant of God may be *thoroughly equipped* for every good work.” (emphasis obviously mine)
That all sufficient book also states, "“Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.” Revealeth+ (Heb 'gala' = tell, reveal, lay bare PUBLISH, make known.)
Very, very good... this is one of the best examples of being a Berean and investigating these false teachers! Excellent!
We have been forewarned that in the last times - ravening wolfs would creep in unawares. Matt. 7:15
It doesn't get clearer than in Matthew 24: 29 - 31. Events are listed step by step: “Immediately after the distress of those days
“‘the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’
“Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other."
Pretribbers say thats not the rapture but the second coming and also that matthew 24 and the book of matthew as a whole was written to Jews
That's the First Resurrection
Only the saints that overcome the Mark of the beast are promised the thousand year reign of Jesus
Revelation 20 4
Unbelievers don't LIVE again
Revelation 20 5
But the rest of the dead lived not again till the thousand years have finished. This is the First Resurrection
Daniel 12 2
And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting Life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt
The Resurrection of the church is at judgment day
John 6 39-54 Jesus says at the Last day four times
Jesus is Truth
Jesus says no one knows the day or hour
Jesus dosen't make mistakes
Jesus is talking about two Resurrections
Revelation 20 shows two Resurrections
One is called the First Resurrection
One is at the Last day
Revelation 21 shows New Jerusalem with no more days
Jesus is Truth Keep the Faith
@@JCneverFailsIf I understand these (and other) verses correctly, the rapture and the second coming are part of the same sequence of events. Christ appears and every eye sees him. Then, we are quickly removed for a while, to be kept safe while he pours out God's wrath on the world. Once he's done, we will join him in the Millennium here on earth. The pretribbers see the rapture as an event that is an end to itself, whereas the Bible describes it as a short 'scene' in the event that is the second coming.
@@squirreljones3595 I agree with all you say, except that the dead in Christ will rise first, i.e. just before those believers who still alive, are raptured. We will stand before Christ's Bema seat for our judgment and reward. Those who died in unbelief, will be part of the second resurrection and they will stand before God for judgment, after the Millennium.
@@LilibethDev
John says the beheaded rise First
You don't have a definition of Dead in CHRIST, so you should consider the seven descriptions in
Revelation 20 4
It all hinges on the Mark of the beast
Christians that die before the Mark of the beast were never promised the thousand year reign of Jesus
When talking about the rapture
Jesus says no one knows the day or hour
John 6 39-54 Jesus says at the Last day four times
Jesus dosen't make mistakes
Jesus is talking about two Resurrections
We know there's a thousand years after the First Resurrection, so the church rapture has to be at judgment day
Jesus is Truth Keep the Faith
Everything else aside, though, you have to love how those ancient and medieval people wrote. "Blessed is the one who has rejected every foul-smelling desire!"
You are so right. It's not just one single scripture.
Not one scripture proves Post Tribulation Rapture
Most of us have a tendency to accept, and then quote from secondary or tertiary sources, especially when it seems to support our views. This is the easiest, but not best, way to do our research. I try to be gracious to others because many of them truly accept and believe the quotes obtained this way at more or less face value.
But, as you are pointing out, there is a danger with this approach. Therefore I would encourage everyone reading this post to seek out the primary sources before accepting what this or that writer seems to be saying.
May God give us wisdom in navigating this age of information and disinformation.
A few of the pastors that preach the rapture are starting to become concerned because the rapture has not happened, they think they may have misunderstood
I haven't seen one admit they were wrong about anything yet .What I have seen is that they are backpeddling and even adding more to the story
@@CaptainFritz
I know that Tom Hughes from "Hope for Our Times" has been back-pedaling...
He has said quite a few times that "the rapture" may be coming later than we all thought... (His people ROAST him in the comment section!)
He has been looking into the Feasts of YeHoVaH and a lot of the Hebrew.
He may be seeing the error of his ways...
Because he is also telling people they need to prepare if it doesn't happen the way they think!
This whole series has been fabulous! Blessings brother!
If you don't have a bunker with seven years of food and water? You won't "die for Jesus". You will just die by a drone IF YOU ARE LUCKY
@@CowboysFan777 Proverbs 27:12 "The prudent see danger and take cover; but the simple keep going and pay the penalty." Berean bible
@@CowboysFan777
Be afraid of your drones...
Hide in your little rodent hole in the ground...
Nothing in your own power is going to save you...
Is your "bunker" impervious to flood?
What about fire?
What about earthquakes?
Where does your air come from?
Electricity?, Fuel?
You might have 7 years worth of food and water...
BUT...
Where are you going to crap and urinate for seven years?
You realize the moment you come out of your glorified rodent hole, you'll have a greeting party waiting for you, don't you?
All a "bunker" is going to do for you is to save someone from the hassle of burying you...
(Refer to Monte Judah's "Greater Exodus Series" to see how poorly protected you are in a bunker)
YeHoVaH knows how to protect His people...
Without this protection, you're doomed to fail regardless of what plans of men you have in mind...
Yah's plan for you to come out of the "Greater Exodus" is to become a "light fighter" not to dig your own well appointed grave...
"Luck" is a pagan construct...
I have the SAME angel protecting me that disposed of 185,000 of Sennacherib's finest in one night...
I'll take YeHoVaH's Grace and Protection any day...
It got me through war and 5 times overseas...
And by HIS Grace and Protection, I WILL endure to see Yeshua's Glorious Day!
@@nickstaxfree9604
GOD hates cowards...
Revelation 21:8 - But to the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and sexually immoral and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their place will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur. This is the second death.”
Revelation 6:16 - And they said to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of the One seated on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb.
Proverbs 29:25 - The fear of man brings a snare, But he who trusts in the Lord will be exalted.
@@bawbjusbawb6471 If Joseph did not take heed to his dream of a 7 year famine coming on the land - all of Abraham's descendants would have perished. God expects us to know and to use his word in our lives. You figure out the rest that I left out. It should not be hard if your in the right spirit. May God bless you.
The pre tribulation deception is very dangerous and a salvation issue if people lose hope after it doesn’t happen. If you know the true story and prepared for rejecting beast mark and system you’ll be saved. If you believe a false story with no tribulation when it comes many will give in to the mark.
And it's even more dangerous that many are only taught pre trib and not even aware of anything else beca8se so many churches demand only pre trib doctrine
@@handles617 I can’t even find a church in Milwaukee area that teaches from KJV or about revelations. All the preachers are indoctrinated I guess which backs your point. I’m thinking of doing church at home with my 4 kids…idk it’s frustrating but at least my kids have someone teaching the truth. I was raised Catholic but sensed it was false in teens and walked away.
Post tribulation believers can't see the church rapture
John 6 39-54 Jesus says at the Last day four times
Jesus is Truth
Revelation 20 shows two Resurrections
One is called the First Resurrection
One is at the Last day
Jesus is Truth
Mystery Babylon added the church to the thousand year reign of Jesus
The thousand year reign of Jesus is promised to the saints that overcome the Mark of the beast
Revelation 20 4 seven descriptions
Revelation 2 & 3 seven letters
Please double check the letters to the seven churches
LISTEN TO JESUS ONLY
Jesus is Truth Keep the Faith
@@squirreljones3595 patients and endurance of the saints. Yes rapture after tribulations.
John 6 39 says he will raise us all up on last day. Good proof thanks
BLESSED HOPE!
Yep when he finally returns to bring in the millennial kingdom
Appreciate your clarity!
It kind of amazes me that anyone who reads the Gospels can believe in pretrib rapture.
It's kinda amazing that post trib believers can't see the second Resurrection for the church
Revelation 20 shows two Resurrections
One is called the First Resurrection
One is at the Last day
John 6 39-54 Jesus says at the Last day four times. Jesus is Truth
Mystery Babylon added the church to the thousand year reign of Jesus
@@squirreljones3595Revelation 20 is immediately after the tribulation of those days. It is a direct reference to Matthew 24:29-31
@@greywisker3180
I believe that's the First Resurrection for the saints that overcome the Mark of the beast
John 6 39-54 Jesus says at the Last day four times
Jesus dosen't make mistakes
Jesus reigns here on this old earth for a thousand years
This old earth still has the sun and days
Revelation 21 shows New Jerusalem with no more days
@@squirreljones3595 keep reading in Revelation 20 starting in verse 11….. this is the great white throne judgement and it is the only other resurrection spoken of in the Bible……this is the second resurrection. You are correct Jesus does not make mistakes.
@@squirreljones3595 John 5:28-29 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth-those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation…….There you have it, only two resurrections; one to eternal life and the other to damnation.
❤😊🎉 He left us amongst wolves. I expect persecution on steroids.
Pastor Artur Pawlowski was just released from jail for time served...
He was jailed and put in solitary confinement for preaching...
Many nations view solitary confinement as torture...
Solitary confinement for preaching?
Post-trib view understands "The Day of the Lord" to refer exclusively to the “Second Coming” of Christ, which occurs after the 7-year tribulation. On the other hand, Pre-trib view considers "The Day of the Lord" to mean the entire sequence of events of the “7-year tribulation.” I struggle to understand how "The Day of the Lord" can be described as coming like a thief in the night if it is only connected to the Second Coming of Christ. When the tribulation begins and people experience its effects, the Second Coming will not feel sudden or unexpected for the people.
The Post-Trib view interprets the phrase "that the day would overtake you like a thief" (1 Thess 5:4) to imply that believers will not “feel” surprised or caught off guard like encountering a thief. According to this view, both unbelievers and believers will go through and “experience” the same events, but “unbelievers” will “feel” the suddenness and surprise of the Lord’s Coming, whereas “believers,” being aware of Jesus' coming, will not “feel” that sense of surprise as if encountering an unexpected thief.
However, I have serious doubts about whether this is what Paul intended to convey in 1 Thess 5. Paul's intention seems to be more than just a matter of “feelings.” Rather, Paul is suggesting that while unbelievers will indeed “experience” the tribulation as a theft, believers will not actually go through that “same experience” of tribulation as a thief in the night. It’s not a matter of “feelings” but actual “experience.”
This is why I adhere to the Pre-tribulation view, as I believe "The Day of the Lord" is synonymous with the entire 7-year tribulation period. The "onset" of the tribulation, its beginning, may come unexpectedly like a thief in the night (1 Thess 5:2), but for believers, "that day" (referring to the 7-year tribulation) will not overtake us as a thief in the night (1 Thess 5:4) because we will be raptured (1 Thess 4:17) just before the tribulation "that day" begins. Just a simple and natural reading of 1 Thess 4-5 will lead any readers to this conclusion. ⛪🙏
Your view has flaws in that it's based on the assumption that the tribulation and 7 years are synonymous. Once you realize that they are not, then it all becomes much easier to understand. Then there is the fact that the day of the Lord is actually specified multiple times as occurring with signs in the skies. Pre trib just ignores this and only utilizes the generic descriptions of the day of the lord, because if they look at the specific descriptions, then they have to explain why the day of the Lord appears to specifically start later in the 7 years.
The thief in the night analogy is used multiple time. Paul would've used "come upon" instead of "overtake" if he wanted to convey a message of "real believers won't experience it" its fairly clear they will experience it therefore, yet will not be OVERTAKEN. It's not about being "surprised" or whether or not you have correct timing, but about whether or not you are prepared for the moment and the events which come with it.
Notice that when Jesus uses the thief analogy he says the same day the unbeliever is cut in 2? And gnashing of teeth? Like all the other parables, never once does Jesus say we get that 2nd chance when that day comes. Yet pre trib claims that we do. I think it's very clear that they are simultaneous with his 2nd coming. Any other claim requires willful divergence.
Revelation 16: 15
(Behold, I am coming like a thief! Blessed is the one who stays awake, keeping his garments on, that he may not go about naked and be seen exposed!”)
Notice the timeframe of events this statement is made^^ I think you place far too much emphasis on literal surprise rather than the preparedness and unpreparedness of the passage.
Also to conclude, your entire assumption is based on chapter 4 and 5 being different timeframes, yet the first verse indicates its a continuation.
@@handles617 You mentioned that my view has flaws because it assumes that the tribulation and the 7-year period are synonymous. I want to clarify that it is not an assumption but rather an argument based on biblical evidence. There are several reasons why "The Day of the Lord" is understood as equivalent to the entire 7-year tribulation.
Firstly, if you study the concept of "The Day of the Lord" in the Old Testament, you will discover that it is not a 24-hour period or an instantaneous event connected only to the Second Coming of Christ. Instead, the prophets repeatedly describe "The Day of the Lord" as a sequence of events leading up to the coming of the LORD. It is a complex series of judgments and not a singular event.
Secondly, Jesus Himself confirms this understanding in Matthew 24. He divides the first half of the tribulation (Matthew 24:4-14) from the second half (Matthew 24:15-28), with verse 15 serving as a dividing point. Jesus clearly mentions the Seventieth Week of Daniel (Dan 9:27) here in 24:15, which refers to the future Antichrist setting up an abomination of desolation in the temple.
The events described in Matthew 24:4-14 closely resemble the beginning of the Seal judgments in Revelation 6. Jesus uses exactly same Greek words, such as "famines and earthquakes" (24:7), "will kill you" (24:9), which correspond to the Seal judgments' description of "kill by sword, famine, and plague" (Rev 6:8), and "There was a great earthquake" (Rev 6:12).
Furthermore, Jesus describes the second half of the tribulation with the presence of false messiahs and false prophets performing “signs” and wonders to “deceive” people (Matt 24:24). These same Greek words for "signs" and "deceive" appear in Revelation 13 when it describes the actions of the Beast in the second half of the tribulation. The 7-year tribulation begins with the Seal judgments and concludes with the Bowl judgments. Thus, we see Jesus mentioning this entire 7-year tribulation as a sequence of events in Matthew 24.
The fact that Matthew 24:4-28 encompasses the entirety of "the Day (ἡμέρα) of the Lord" is confirmed by Jesus' statement, "But immediately after the tribulation of those days (ἡμέρα)" (24:29), people will witness the coming of the Son of Man: the Second Coming (24:30). The Second Coming occurs "after" the "Day (ἡμέρα) of the Lord," specifically, "immediately after the tribulation of those days (ἡμέρα)." Therefore, it is unreasonable to equate "the Day of the Lord" solely with the singular event of the "Second Coming of Christ."
Jesus Himself even emphasized that when individuals observe "all these things," they should recognize that He is near (24:33). "All these things" refers to the entire sequence of events during the tribulation (the Day of the Lord, 24:4-28). The Second Coming is preceded by specific and clear "signs," similar to how people can anticipate the approach of summer (24:32). However, Jesus changes the topic (peri de) starting in 24:36, stating, "But of that day (ἡμέρα) and hour no one knows." The Day of the Lord, the tribulation, is a "signless" event without visible signs.
The most compelling evidence supporting the understanding that the Day of the Lord encompasses the entirety of the 7-year tribulation comes from Paul's words in 1 Thessalonians 5. Paul describes the day (ἡμέρα) of the Lord as coming upon unbelievers suddenly, "like labor pains (ὠδίν) on a pregnant woman," and they will not escape (5:3). It is noteworthy that the "onset" of the Day of the Lord is the same as what Jesus referred to as the "onset" of the tribulation in Matthew 24: "All these are the beginning of birth pains (ὠδίν)" (24:8). Both Paul and Jesus affirm that the Day of the Lord is not a singular event but a sequence of events (7 years) leading up to the Second Coming. Both Jesus and Paul affirm that the "onset" of the Day of the Lord signifies only the beginning of birth pains.
Unbelievers cannot "escape" the Day when it begins and the sequence of events unfolds. Paul further states, "But you (second person: believers), brethren, are not in darkness, that the day (ἡμέρα) would overtake you like a thief" (5:4). The onset of "that day" cannot seize believers violently because Paul explained in the preceding context that they will be "caught up" to be with the Lord (4:17).
Furthermore, if we equate the Day with Christ's Second Coming, it becomes difficult to comprehend how unbelievers can say "peace and safety" (5:3) and live their lives normally just before the Second Coming of Christ, given that they are currently experiencing the terrible wrath of God during that time.
Lastly, look at 2 Thessalonians 2. Some of the Thessalonians were disturbed by a report claiming that the day of the Lord had arrived (2:2). If, in this context, the day of the Lord is synonymous with the second coming, then it would be impossible for them to be shaken in mind. Instead of being troubled, they should have rejoiced that the Day of the Lord had come! If the Christians had mistakenly believed, based on Paul's previous teaching, that they were currently going through the tribulation and held a post-tribulationist view, they would have likely been rejoicing rather than troubled by the idea of sudden deliverance.
When we consider the overall context of 1-2 Thessalonians, the only logical explanation is as follows: The Thessalonians had been previously taught that the rapture would occur before the day of the Lord. The lie they heard just before Paul wrote his second letter to them suggested that the day of the Lord had come, and being informed of the day of the Lord's arrival necessarily implied that they had missed the rapture. This would undoubtedly be disconcerting, and it would have shaken the Thessalonians from their composure.
The pre-tribulational rapture is not lacking in biblical support and evidence. In fact, there is ample evidence to support it. Viewing 1 Thessalonians 4-5 in its entirety, the pre-tribulation position appears to be the most natural reading. If you are presenting your view, do so in a humble manner.
@fifajjang77 I never claimed the day of the lord is a singular 24 hour period, you only claimed that I claim that. Yes, the first several events described in that passage are the seal events, this is exactly what I agree with. The problem is that you claim the tribulation is the entire 7 years, but this is never stated in the bible at all. I used to be pre trib, i know what the arguments for pre trib are. He divides the first half and calls it the beginning of sorrows or birth pains. it is ONLY at the mid point that he even uses the word tribulation, where he specifically calls it the great tribulation. So, to claim that the first half is the "tribulation" is not biblically based. Jesus also does not specify if the great tribulation is even the entire 2nd half to begin with either, or just a period of time of the 2nd half. You said the 2nd half is accompanied by false christs and deception, but this is also in the first half as it says in verses 4-5, so this, while not being necessary to either position of rapture timing, is just not correct.
So to claim that the entire 7 years is the tribulation is not biblically based, and is thus simply a necessary claim to further pre trib doctrine along. So the reality is the 7 years should be referred to as the 7 years, not the tribulation, since the bible NEVER calls it all the tribulation.
You say that matthew 24; 36 is a new topic, but there is no basis for this claim. It is only claimed to further along the pre trib claim. The questions jesus is asked at the beginning is WHEN will these take place, and what is the sign of his coming and end of the age. Jesus responds with the signs of his coming and end first, THEN in verse 36 he answers them as to when it happens. Again, there is no basis to claim he suddenly jumped timeframes. He says no man knows the day or hour followed by Noahs ark anaology. Do you notice that nobody is saved when the ark comes??? Pre trib claims you get a 2nd chance. Why dont you just respond to this? Its so simple and obvious that it cannot even be true.
it literally says "but about that day and hour" but what WHAT day and hour? Hes answering their question on the SIGN of his COMING and WHEN it HAPPENS which he just established as being immediately AFTER the tribulation. He's just pointing out the timing that you WONT KNOW when it happens. He hasnt jumped timeframes to a different preliminary coming. This is as I have been saying, simply a claim to further along pre trib without any evidence to support it.
1 thess 5;3 does not prove my claim wrong, actually it simply validates my claim. What you have to do is establish that the day of the lord actually happens when the 7 years begins. None of your statement here actually establishes this, and you only forcefully insert it into being an interchangeable word with the 7 years. The ONLY verses that actually establish any timing compared to events for the day of the lord specifically place it with the signs in the skies, which is WELL INTO THE SEVEN YEARS. To claim pre trib you have to IGNORE these verses and only look at the generic ones. This is why ive said you have to willingly divert to believe pre trib.
2 thess does not even establish pre trib at all.In fact it only once again furthers my own claim. They believed the day of the lord was upon them yes, but to claim pre trib you have to outright ignore the statements he makes. To summarize for convenience he says "concerning the 2nd coming and us being gathered to him, do not be disturbed or shaken by things you have heard recently to believe that the day of the lord is ongoing, it will not come until 2 things, the apostasy and revealing of the antichrist. Pre trib will conveniently ignore this and then claim paul blatantly contradicts himself in verses 7-8 by adding in a 3rd event here that happens before the day of the lord in between the apostasy and antichrist revealing and even worse is that its WITHOUT ANY REAL EVIDENCE. Its one of the many things claimed to simply further it. Once you claim 7-8 is the rapture, the statement now is rendered "concerning the day of the lord and rapture, it will not occur until the apostasy, rapture, antichrist, which is just a circular statement.
2 thess being pre trib would also contradict jesus, when he places the apostasy as occuring IN THE 7 years, whereas pre trib claims it occurs before the rapture, so if the gathering is before the 7 years, then you'd have to claim the apostasy is before the 7 years when jesus says its IN the 7 years. This can only be reconciled with the fact that jesus says "when you see the abomination" but couldve also said "when you see the confirmation of the covenant" at the beginning of his speech of the end times, which heavily suggests we may not even understand it to begin with as occuring. This is backed up by the fact that paul mentions the revealing of the antichrist, and immediately describes the abomination of desoltion, when he couldve described the confirmation of the covenant. This makes sense since the word revealed means OUTED, as in you will know for sure he is the antichrist because of his unique action.
Again, chapter 4 simply discusses their fear that the dead would not rise so they wouldnt see them again. He then in chapter 5 continues the topic in the same timeframe, stating unlike their lack of knowledge of the dead rising, they know perfectly well the day of the lord comes like a thief. Its not a topic change, and merely a comparison in the discussion. Paul clearly places the day of the lord and gathering as being side by side, not separate events. This sides with my claim.
So to conclude, since there is no parable that establishes any 2nd chance after his "coming" even in the noahs ark analogy, youre left in a tight position to even claim there is a preliminary rapture. There is zero evidence and actually evidence to the contrary that the tribulation starts with the 7 years. The only time the bible indicates the exact timing of the day of the lord is IN the tribulation. 2 thess is discussing their concerns of missing his coming and gathering and the day of the lord beginning since any other claim would clearly contradict the list and specific order of events of 1-4 and create a circular statement.
To claim pre trib you have to show me a verse that indicates the day of the lord actually starts with the 7 years, not just tell me you believe it. Or show me a verse that indicates timing of a gathering before the 7 years/antichrist.
Sorry if I sound rude, it's not against you but the doctrine itself which is just not based in reality but a doctrine based in the same teachings from which we get prosperity teaching and other matters that appeal to the flesh.
@@handles617 Learn how to write and present your points clearly, as all I'm hearing is you saying that there is no evidence to support my claim etc etc. Write your view clearly, like I’m addressing the points very clearly and easy to follow. With all due respect, none of what you have said is convincing, and you have not provided any support based on the statements I made.
[1]
Did you not read when I said the following? [The most compelling evidence supporting the understanding that the Day of the Lord encompasses the entirety of the 7-year tribulation comes from Paul's words in 1 Thessalonians 5. Paul describes the day (ἡμέρα) of the Lord as coming upon unbelievers suddenly, "like labor pains (ὠδίν) on a pregnant woman," and they will not escape (5:3). Paul describes the starting point, "onset" of the "Day of the Lord" as "like labor pains (ὠδίν) on a pregnant woman." This is exactly the same as what Jesus referred to as the starting point, "onset" of the tribulation in Matthew 24: "All these are the beginning of birth pains (ὠδίν)" (24:8). This is why I argued that (the day of the Lord) starts in Matthew 24:4. Both Paul and Jesus affirm that the Day of the Lord is not just a singular event of His Second Coming, but a sequence of events (24:4-28) leading up to the Second Coming (24:29-30). Both Jesus and Paul affirm that the "onset" of the Day of the Lord signifies only “the beginning of birth pains.”]
[2]
You have not provided a clear explanation about people saying "peace and safety" (1 Thess 5:3) and the people "eating and drinking" just like the time of Noah (Matt 24:38) when the terrible Wrath of God is pouring down upon them in that exact moment!
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The disciples' questions in Matthew 24:3 are twofold: (A) "When will this happen?" (referring to the time of distress, destruction, and tribulation), and (B) "What will be the sign of your coming?" You should know about the chiastic structure. This is how Jews would typically answer questions. Jesus addresses the (B) second question first in 24:4-28, and the (A) first question later starting in 24:36, marked by a switching of topic (peri de in Greek: it means regarding other (A) question). Jesus answers those 2 questions in Chiastic Structure (A-B-B'-A').
Jesus is saying that 24:4-28 are the "signs" of His Second Coming (answer to question B). He also states, "when you see all these things, recognize that He is near" (24:33). In other words, His Second Coming is preceded by clear signs. You should know that He is near when you see "all these things" in 24:4-28.
However, regarding the first question, (A) "when will this happen" (the "starting" time of distress, destruction, and tribulation), Jesus says, "But of that day and hour no one knows" (24:36). The "onset" of that tribulation is a sign-less event, no one knows when it "starts." This is why Paul says, "the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night" (5:2). And because the “starting point” of the Day of the Lord is a sign-less event, this is exactly why the people can say "peace and safety" (1 Thess 5:3) and continue their normal activities, “eating and drinking” just like during the time of Noah (Matt 24:38).
[4]
Additionally, it seems you have not studied Daniel 9:24-27. Daniel 9:27 specifically tells us that the man of lawlessness will set up an abomination of desolation in the temple "in the middle of the week (Week in Hebrew 7 years)." The duration of 7 years is evident from Revelation 13:1, where it mentions that authority was given to the beast for “forty-two months” (3.5 years). Revelation 12:6 and 12:14 also indicate a period of 3.5 years: "where she might be taken care of for 1,260 days (3.5 years)" (Rev 12:6). "she would be taken care of for a time, times and half a time (3.5 years), out of the serpent’s reach" (Rev 12:14).
With that in mind, once again, my view of seeing the first half of the tribulation (Matthew 24:4-14) from the second half (Matthew 24:16-28), with verse 15 (Daniel 9:27) serving as a dividing point, works nicely.
[5]
Regarding 2 Thessalonians 2:3, it seems you are not familiar with how to interpret Greek syntax. Your understanding is that the Day of the Lord “will not come” unless two things happen. However, that is not the only way to read the Greek syntax, which is why NASB has written italics over the phrase "it will not come." To clarify the matter, the missing protasis could be rendered something like this: “for that day [does not come] unless the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessness is revealed.” This can be translated as, "the apostasy, whatever that is, has not occurred, and the man of lawlessness has not been revealed. So the day cannot be here." Paul is simply stating that two elements included "in" (not before) the day of the Lord are not seen, therefore the day cannot be here.
[6]
You have not answered the question about why the Thessalonians were greatly shaken and troubled in 2 Thess 2. If, in this context, "the day of the Lord" is synonymous with "the second coming," then it would be impossible for them to be shaken in mind. Instead of being troubled, they should have rejoiced that the Day of the Lord had come, because it is the day of their deliverance from tribulation!
If they believed in Post-Trib, they could not have been deceived that "The Day of the Lord" has already come because the Lord has simply “not appeared” from heaven! There would be no need for them to be shaken, and they would have rejected the deceivers' claim, simply because the Lord had not yet returned. However, it is very plausible that they were shaken and troubled because they had been deceived into thinking that "the day of the Lord" had already come, and they had missed the rapture.
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Lastly, I don't know what you are talking about when you said, "there's any 2nd chance." It was never a second chance. Of course, chances can be given during that 7-year period of tribulation because that is "not the end of the age." God is gracious, and He has not completely returned (Second Coming) to make a final judgment over the entire world. When He finally returns at His Second Coming, there is no second chance.
@@fifajjang77 You keeping saying "tribulation starts 7 years" but again have never once showed a verse that indicates this. The only verses that speak of tribulation with timing are at the mid point, so unless you are going to hand me a verse to indicate it, please dont even bother.
Joel 2:31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.
Joel 3:14 Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the LORD [is] near in the valley of decision.
Joe 3:15 The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining.
Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken
"i have not provided a clear explanation" and neither have you even given an attempted explanation for as to why none of the parables, including in matthew 24 show the "left behind" being saved. Noahs ark analogy specifically says they were ALL taken away.
"But of that day and hour no one knows" (24:36). The "onset" of that tribulation is a sign-less event, no one knows when it starts"
This is simply not true. The day or hour he is referring to is what he just described, the coming of the son of man, the timing of it. You will not know the day or hour he comes. This falls in line with my claim.
"and they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away; SO WILL THE COMING OF THE SON OF MAN BE." The coming of the son of man? When does he come? "IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE TRIBULATION OF THOSE DAYS." To claim this is a change to the beginning of the 7 years, you have to blatantly ignore that he says this is the coming of the son of man, which he just explained as being after the tribulation.
"this is exactly why the people can say "peace and safety" (1 Thess 5:3) and continue their normal activities, “eating and drinking” just like during the time of Noah"
As said above, this would only make sense if the analogy given had stated that people would be spared or saved, yet it says they are ALL taken away. Pre trib has to ignore this, as you conveniently are doing so. As for "peace and safety" I can easily claim that there is a pause in war and a moment of calm at a specific point before the day of the lord, and that this revamp of terrible destruction is the last straw in crushing people's hopes that they falsely believed would occur with the antichrist reign.
"it seems you have not studied Daniel 9:24-27. Daniel 9:27 specifically tells us that the man of lawlessness will set up an abomination of desolation in the temple "in the middle of the week" No, I havent argued against that, and specified that the abomination occurs after the confirmation of the covenant. Not sure what your point is. Is it because i said the gathering occurs after the abomination? Correct. This is why paul mentions the antichrist, and then immediately describes the abomination of desolation, when he couldve added in the confirmation of the covenant. He is simply describing what revealed or "outs" the antichrist. I also pointed out that jesus places the apostasy IN the 7 years and before the abomination, and paul places it before the antichrist, which means he is stating it happens after the 7 years begins but before the abomination, which falls in line with my claim. This is something you conveniently ignored in your own response. It is a CONTRADICTION to claim pre trib with that in mind.
"With that in mind, once again, my view of seeing the first half of the tribulation (Matthew 24:4-14) from the second half (Matthew 24:16-28), with verse 15 (Daniel 9:27) serving as a dividing point, works nicely."
Wrong, since as pointed out, the tribulation is not used to describe anything until the abomination. Please refrain from using words that do not even exist for specific points.
As for your point about 2 thess 3. This would only make sense for pre trib if he only mentioned the coming of the lord, yet he grouped the coming of the lord and gathering to him. Again, the phrase would be rendered "concerning the 2nd coming and us being gathered to him, that day will not come until apostasy and revealing of antichrist" The 2 events are coupled together and therefore the same timing.
Now, for your last statement "they should have rejoiced that the Day of the Lord had come, because it is the day of their deliverance from tribulation! If they believed in Post-Trib, they could not have been deceived that "The Day of the Lord" has already come because the Lord has simply “not appeared” from heaven! There would be no need for them to be shaken because the Lord did not come back."
Im not post trib as how you would understand it. Also, I dont believe the day of the lord is a singular day, and you would know that part if you even checked what i said at the very beginning of my last reply...You seem to not understand the difference between post trib and post 7 years. Just as when you falsely attributed the tribulation to the 7 years when it only uses it for from the mid point, the bible never even says how long the tribulation period lasts. Therefore we would place the coming of the son of man as being simultaneous with the end of the tribulation, which is before the end of the 7 years, because their days were cut short. Not cut short for all humans, only the elect, the BELIEVERS as stated by paul in romans 8:33 and 2 timothy 2:10. Pre trib will claim that this is meant by cutting off the days to only last the 7 years when he returns, but this would cut it short for everyone, yet jesus says he cuts it ONLY FOR THE ELECT, which falls in line with my claim.
So to reiterate 2 thess 2. "concerning the coming and us being gathered, that day is not at hand, because the apostasy has not happened, and the antichrist has not been revealed" He couples the coming and gathering as that day. Then says it wont happen until those 2 events occur.
To reiterate what I said in my last reply as well, since he says in verses 1-4 that these 2 must occur beforehand, it becomes contradictory to claim he later goes on to add a 3rd event that occurs before, especially since this claim has absolutely no basis to begin with. And, as I also said in my last reply, this would provide a circular statement that says the coming and rapture cannot occur until the apostasy, rapture and antichrist.
So the tribulation is definitely not the whole 7 years, the day of the lord is specified as after the signs of the skies, and heck, just to add in, 1 thess 4 says parousia singular noun form, which is the form always used to refer to his 2nd coming. This is why I kept saying that pre trib is inconsistent to the point it just does it for moving the doctrine along.
I have been a monthly supporter for a while now and I Love the work you do in bringing the GOSPEL to the unreached.
That is why I support you guys financially.
So preach CHRIST and him CRUCIFIED,
stop with the nit picking and in fighting.
Its so unhelpful.
Lee is an awesome brother in Christ and a fine man of God.
Why are we so caught up in a non salvation issues.
I'm right your wrong,
its like listening to me 6yr and 4 yr old kids tossing comments at each other.
Preach Christ.
He is the only one worth talking about!
There are two resurrections according to Revelation 20. The first are the Saints (believers) who died in Christ. This is when Christ returns and reigns with him for millennia. After the 1000 years is the 2nd resurrection and the great white thrown judgement.
Thanks Joel. Praise God for rebuking Lee Brainard. He would never reply to my messages, and questions. (P.S. I don't expect a response on every question) This is a sure sign of someone who could care less about the TRUTH in God's word. After asking a few biblical questions, he blocked me. People that teach a false doctrine, CANNOT have people coming on their channel, and asking questions that would expose their lack of understand of scripture. It's one thing to NOT reply to questions, but another thing to block other believers from seeing those questions. What does he have to hide if he has the TRUTH? To God be the Glory.
You are literally A DEMON!
I questioned Lee once and he immediately replied with a very thoughtful and gracious response even though I kind of blasted Jan. He won my respect.
@@e.mo.4530 I did same thing. I disagree with him with his answer, but Lee gave me a very thoughtful response. He doesn't believe ALL elements are destroyed in 2 Peter 3:10. It's not a Salvation issue but we can agree to disagree.
@@Pre-Tribulation When I hear people say we can agree to disagree. My first thought is, does the TRUTH matter? Jn14:6/ 17:17 How about false teachings that Jesus and Paul addressed many times? Mt24:11. We should speak the same thing. 1Cor1:10. Also, 2Pt 3:10 Is a literal passage. It's the Last day. Jn6:39-40,44,54. It's also the DAY of wrath. Rev6:17 DAY. Rm2:5 Day. Zeph1:15,18 DAY. It's also the time of Jacobs trouble. Jer30:7 DAY. To God be the Glory
If a man has been teaching a false doctrine for some time,will he humble himself and ask God's forgiveness and openly correct himself,or try to lie out of it as Ellen G did and say God was wrong? God forbid we better fear & Revere God
Sadly, it looks more and more likely to be deliberate. One or even two errors could be mistakes, but this is repeated over and over again.
I find even the idea of confirmation bias doesn't explain how and why this could happen so consistently.
I'm always willing to give anyone the benefit of the doubt and a review of our exchanges will show that I certainly gave Lee multiple opportunities to correct his errors. My initial concerns were more than validated by his reactionary posturing. He very rudely belittles any who don't agree with him, transparently gas-lighting everyone who refuse to turn a blind eye to his dishonesty. He has blocked and removed dozens of brothers and sisters simply for asking valid questions. I offered to have a debate or a simple public discussion in his home church, with his pastor as moderator. He is not willing to be transparent or accountable in the least bit. Sadly, this has all led me to conclude what is rather obvious: he is a genuine wolf in sheep's clothing.
@@JoelRichardson
Due to a rather rough upbringing and other life experiences, I usually don't give people the benefit of the doubt...
My trust in someone has to be earned...
There are very few people I trust to give me the Word of GOD...
Quite frankly, I am so nauseated by MOST preachers/pastors on the Internet...
People who speak against the "Pre-tribulation Rapture" are few and far between...
The fact that MOST pastors/preachers can't even get the day of the Sabbath correct...
The fact that MOST pastors/preachers call the Feasts of YeHoVaH "Jewish Feasts" and dismiss them...
When I pick up the Scriptures and read them, what they preach does not even resemble what has been written...
I went to church (a few churches actually) for a very brief period of time and was very disheartened and disappointed at how little the pastors actually knew the Bible as opposed to how much they regurgitated their denomination's doctrines...
May I NEVER again hear one who says:
"We're gonna fly any moment!"
"The Law is a curse!"
"Paul did away with the Law!"
"Jeezus nailed the Law to tha cross!"
"Jesus IS our Sabbath"...
""Those curses and the judgements are for tha Joos, NOT tha church"
"You can't be following those Laws of Moses, you're gonna fall from grace!"
Thank you.
I really liked your views on the rapture..Isaiah 24 needs to be preached as loud as possible. No matter what Bible you read Isaiah 24, its every one, all..this should wake everyone up. Thank you.
Read Isaiah 26:19-21. The sequence is (1) God raises His People with HIS DEAD BODY, meaning after the Crusifiction (2) God calls HIS PEOPLE into their chambers to hide until the indignation is over (3) Door is shut behind them (4) God punishes the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity
@@Pre-Tribulation thank you for replying. Titus 2:13. That's what I'm waiting for. That glorious appearing of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
@@evaduvall4215Yep!!! And Philippians 3:20-21, 2 Thessalonians 3:5 says we are to wait PATIENTLY for our vile bodies to be fashioned like Jesus's glorious risen body! See you in the clouds! Maranatha
I try not to get into pre or post with people, but scripture tells me pre wrath. We will be here for trials and tribulations. Now, with that being said, I don't know if these people don't have eyes to see, I just think this is wishful thinking on their part.
Came to conclusion whats point in trying to get people who believe in pretrib to open minds to possibility its a wishful thinking lie and the fault lies with their not wanting discomfort of suffering i just say now if they wrong I hope they are humble enough to not get angry and blame God
Can you do a video on once saved always saved and your thoughts
Post-trib view understands "The Day of the Lord" to refer exclusively to the “Second Coming” of Christ, which occurs after the 7-year tribulation. On the other hand, Pre-trib view considers "The Day of the Lord" to mean the entire sequence of events of the “7-year tribulation.” I struggle to understand how "The Day of the Lord" is solely connected to the Second Coming of Christ.
Firstly, if you study the concept of "The Day of the Lord" in the Old Testament, you will discover that it is not a 24-hour period or an instantaneous event connected only to the Second Coming of Christ. Instead, the prophets repeatedly describe "The Day of the Lord" as a sequence of events leading up to the coming of the LORD. It is a complex series of judgments and not a singular event.
Secondly, Jesus Himself confirms this understanding in Matthew 24. He divides the first half of the tribulation (Matthew 24:4-14) from the second half (Matthew 24:15-28), with verse 15 serving as a dividing point. Jesus clearly mentions the Seventieth Week of Daniel (Dan 9:27) here in 24:15, which refers to the future Antichrist setting up an abomination of desolation in the temple.
The events described in Matthew 24:4-14 closely resemble the beginning of the Seal judgments in Revelation 6. Jesus uses exactly same Greek words, such as "famines and earthquakes" (24:7), "will kill you" (24:9), which correspond to the Seal judgments' description of "kill by sword, famine, and plague" (Rev 6:8), and "There was a great earthquake" (Rev 6:12).
Furthermore, Jesus describes the second half of the tribulation with the presence of false messiahs and false prophets performing “signs” and wonders to “deceive” people (Matt 24:24). These same Greek words for "signs" and "deceive" appear in Revelation 13 when it describes the actions of the Beast in the second half of the tribulation. The 7-year tribulation begins with the Seal judgments and concludes with the Bowl judgments. Thus, we see Jesus mentioning this entire 7-year tribulation as a sequence of events in Matthew 24.
The fact that Matthew 24:4-28 encompasses the entirety of "the Day (ἡμέρα) of the Lord" is confirmed by Jesus' statement, "But immediately after the tribulation of those days (ἡμέρα)" (24:29), people will witness the coming of the Son of Man: the Second Coming (24:30). The Second Coming occurs "after" the "Day (ἡμέρα) of the Lord," specifically, "immediately after the tribulation of those days (ἡμέρα)." Therefore, it is unreasonable to equate "the Day of the Lord" solely with the singular event of the "Second Coming of Christ."
Jesus Himself even emphasized that when individuals observe "all these things," they should recognize that He is near (24:33). "All these things" refers to the entire sequence of events during the tribulation (the Day of the Lord, 24:4-28). The Second Coming is preceded by specific and clear "signs," similar to how people can anticipate the approach of summer (24:32). However, Jesus changes the topic (peri de) starting in 24:36, stating, "But of that day (ἡμέρα) and hour no one knows." The Day of the Lord, the tribulation, is a "signless" event without visible signs.
The most compelling evidence supporting the understanding that the Day of the Lord encompasses the entirety of the 7-year tribulation comes from Paul's words in 1 Thessalonians 5. Paul describes the day (ἡμέρα) of the Lord as coming upon unbelievers suddenly, "like labor pains (ὠδίν) on a pregnant woman," and they will not escape (5:3). It is noteworthy that the "onset" of the Day of the Lord is the same as what Jesus referred to as the "onset" of the tribulation in Matthew 24: "All these are the beginning of birth pains (ὠδίν)" (24:8). Both Paul and Jesus affirm that the Day of the Lord is not a singular event but a sequence of events (7 years) leading up to the Second Coming. Both Jesus and Paul affirm that the "onset" of the Day of the Lord signifies only the beginning of birth pains.
Unbelievers cannot "escape" the Day when it begins and the sequence of events unfolds. Paul further states, "But you (second person: believers), brethren, are not in darkness, that the day (ἡμέρα) would overtake you like a thief" (5:4). The onset of "that day" cannot seize believers violently because Paul explained in the preceding context that they will be "caught up" to be with the Lord (4:17).
Furthermore, if we equate the Day with Christ's Second Coming, it becomes difficult to comprehend how unbelievers can say "peace and safety" (5:3) and live their lives normally just before the Second Coming of Christ, given that they are currently experiencing the terrible wrath of God during that time.
Lastly, look at 2 Thessalonians 2. Some of the Thessalonians were disturbed by a report claiming that the day of the Lord had arrived (2:2). If, in this context, the day of the Lord is synonymous with the second coming, then it would be impossible for them to be shaken in mind. Instead of being troubled, they should have rejoiced that the Day of the Lord had come! If the Christians had mistakenly believed, based on Paul's previous teaching, that they were currently going through the tribulation and held a post-tribulationist view, they would have likely been rejoicing rather than troubled by the idea of sudden deliverance.
When we consider the overall context of 1-2 Thessalonians, the only logical explanation is as follows: The Thessalonians had been previously taught that the rapture would occur before the day of the Lord. The lie they heard just before Paul wrote his second letter to them suggested that the day of the Lord had come, and being informed of the day of the Lord's arrival necessarily implied that they had missed the rapture. This would undoubtedly be disconcerting, and it would have shaken the Thessalonians from their composure.
The pre-tribulational rapture is not lacking in biblical support and evidence. In fact, there is ample evidence to support it. Viewing 1 Thessalonians 4-5 in its entirety, the pre-tribulation position appears to be the most natural reading.
If the pre-Tribulation reading is "the most natural reading", if the "truth" of the pre-Tribulation Rapture is so overwhelmingly obvious, why is there not a _single_ early church father of any significance who taught it? The church fathers (the ones who weren't influenced by the Alexandrian allegorical interpretative method) derived the doctrine of chiliasm/premillennialism from the canonical Scripture, so they were correct on that, but they _all_ taught a post-Tribulation Rapture. Any proponent of the pre-Tribulation Rapture doctrine up until about twenty years ago even admitted as much. The best that propagators of the pre-Tribulation Rapture idea can dredge up in the realm of historical evidence are some obscure excerpts from the church fathers that are actually more in line with a mid-Tribulation or pre-wrath Rapture.
Brainard also has a wild & truly "out there" depiction of heaven. 😢😮😮😢
Amen 🙏
Sad sad day for you Sir!!! Jesus can’t back today!!!
Left out the word “come”
Ahhh Joel; one resurrection?? [22:57] The first res. is for the righteous who died in Christ, at the rapture.
The SECOND res. occurs at the White Throne Judgement After the Millennium,"blessed are those who are in the first res".
Some who died during the Millenium and are in the book of life will go into eternity with God,
but primarily the Second res. is for the wicked of all time who are judged to the lake of fire.
The Good and the Wicked are NOT raised together at his second coming, as you seemed to be saying.
Please correct me if I misunderstood you! Read the book of Revelations not pseudo - E who does not believe in a Millennial
reign of Christ, he skips over it. Why would you agree with him?
Rev 20 says the first resurrection is after the tribulation.
@@JoelRichardson Yes Rev. 20 proves there are 2 resurrections. Not One for both the good and the wicked at the
same time as you seemed to say. Again I agree with most of what you are saying, but when something doesnt
sound right I will ask for clarification.
Pseudo E believes in only 1 res. because he does not believe in the Millennium, only the coming of God/Christ at the
White Throne Judgement, so naturally both the good and wicked would be raised at the same time in his view,
which is totally unscriptural. Unfortunately several denominations believe that false teaching.
@@mikehaney6922 You said the first resurrection is at the rapture. I agree, but would now admit the Scriptures say it is after the tribulation?
@@JoelRichardson yes it appears that it does occur at the second coming when the multitudes return with Christ to receive their glorified bodies along with the saints who died during the great tribulation persecution.
But would you also agree that the "rest of the dead" primarily the 'wicked' are part of the second resurrection [the second death] at the great white throne judgement After the millennium?
@@mikehaney6922 Totally.
COMPAIR REVELATION 5:9 CHURCH TO 6:9 TRIBULATION SAINTS
🤔 Yes, There is obvious a difference between them.
@@wendy-mae Where does the Bible say that the elders are the church? IT DOESN'T. In fact, they are serving God, (while the souls of the slain humans are under the alter) and handling the prayers of the saints. This is a HEAVENLY function, not a human one.
Some say these are angels which are representing the family of God as 12 Apostles and 12 tribes of Israel. The bottom line is, YOU DO NOT KNOW who they are, so you cannot just assert that they are the church, and that they are "different" from the church in Rev. 6:9. (Different means not the same. So, not the church in the first case. Since the second group *are* identified as the souls of BELIEVERS. That means part of the church. The word church was ONLY used to describe a specific local BODY of believers, or the universal church (all believers.) INDIVIDUAL MEMBERS OF THE CHURCH Are called saints, the elect, servants, martyrs, or "my people."
@@DianaSzucs-jv7yo Thank you for reaction. Although i do not fully understand the meaning of it. (Sorry ,english is not my native language.) I was reaction on someone elses post. I did not say different,i said ‘there is a difference’ between them. And there is for that moment' and the reason why i said that is because the elders are already in heaven, around the throne at the start of the tribulation, before the book and seals where openend. Rev 5. And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.
The saints under the throne are not mentioned until after the opening of the fifth seal. Rev 6.And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: that’s the difference.
Who the elderly are? i don’t think they are angels:they are mentioned apart, for instance rev 7:11And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,
All through the bible elderly or the elders are humans with a beautiful God given function, so, i am not sure what the elderly in heaven are.
Finally, all believers,wether you call them saints, church or body of Christ, are one in Christ.
@@wendy-mae There are heavenly creatures that are not angels. The Beasts that cry, "Holy! Holy! Holy! constantly are an example.
The fact that the souls under the throne were not mentioned before Rev. 6 does not mean that they were not there before the events of Rev 6. It just means that John did not notice or mention the before.
If the 24 elders were humans, why were there only 24? They cannot be the church.
I agree that all are one in Christ, but I thought you were a pretrib believer? They claim that God divides his people into what amounts to a caste system where the first and last to believe are a lower level from the ones who believed between the 1st century and the tribulation.
They sincerely believe that the last to believe "deserve to suffer" and the first to believe were somehow saved by works rather than grace, so they are not part of the church. This idea is not biblical at all.
I must have been confused by what you wrote.
@@DianaSzucs-jv7yo Yes i think i am more pre trib , not completely sure but in my opinion it is certainly not something we shoud argue about. The way you describe pretribbers is certainly not the way i think. Or have ever heard of from any other pretribber. One of many reasons why i tend to think there is a pretrib rapture has to do with the fact that bible is clear that we are not appointed to wrath .
The difference between tribulation caused by men and the devil and the great tribulation is that the tribulation in revelation is about the wrath of God coming on the world. It has nothing to do with works, it’s only Christ, only grace. It has absolutely nothing to do ‘castes’ or deserving to suffer or any of that.
It is the bible that says that we are not appointed to wrath, for instance :1 thess 5:1-9 is very clear
verse 9For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
1 thess 1:10 And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.
Revelation is about God’s wrath during the seven year tribulation. But again , if not so, if otherwise, my hope is in Jesus and we should not argue as children of God.
Matthew 24: 50 The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of.
Yes. Christ tells us that His appearing would surprise the world, and will surprise us also IF we're not spiritually prepared. You and I are expected to know the signs indicating His soon appearing, and to prepare accordingly.
People’s actions are a manifestation of their heart! He’s trying to deceive!
In order to rake more money into their bank accounts.
How dare you revile a man of God like that! Your accusations are demonic! You need to really check yourself. This man loves Jesus, and false teachers don’t love Jesus. Men of God don’t try to deceive believers! Check yourself!!
Who? Joel? No no no... he's right actually. Pre trib is only taught in the west and It's not in the Bible. I've looked. I used to be pre trib bc that's all I was taught but Jesus and Paul teach the opposite.
Joel, will believers recognize the two witnesses?😮
I would like to know that also.
I just heard Jack Hibbs just teach that the day of the Lord is 7+ years long. He includes the whole tribulation and any time from his pre tribulation rapture till the start of the tribulation as the day of the Lord. Never heard that before.
It's a forced claim for pre trib. Even though the bible NEVER refers to the 7 years and tribulation as the same thing. It's not backed by anything but it's necessary to fill in the obvious problems they face.
@@handles617 The 70th week is around 7 years. Read Daniel 9-12.
Mike Haney The 70th week and the tribulation are not interchangeable words in the bible.
Yes, I heard it as well. Totally ludicrous and not biblical in any way, shape or form.
@@mikehaney6922 Yep, the 70th week of Daniel is a 7 year period, but biblically , there is ONLY the 70th week of Daniel and there is the Great Tribulation (Jacob's trouble). I can't find a "7 year Tribulation" period in my bible.
So, let's just think about the so-called "7 year Tribulation" period. IF, as is claimed, the 70th week of Daniel equates to the Day of the Lord being 7 years long, God will pour out His wrath and KILL and MARTYR HIS OWN PEOPLE. This can't be true because we are told in 1 Thessalonians 5:9, that we (believers) are not appointed to God's wrath. Something is definitely not right, as I know the Word of God is pure Truth.
I refuse to call those who teach this false doctrine a brother , it is written “ thou shalt not bear false witness “ and this is the very teaching it is and what communion has light with darkness ? If a man brings another doctrine which was not delivered by the men in our Holy Bible , we are not to have fellowship with those !
When someone claims that they have it all figured out, their word is absolute and point fingers accusing the brethren, stay clear, he is now playing the part of the adversary. I might not agree with midtrib, post trib or pretrib, but if the essentials and fundamentals are correct then we are brothers in Christ. And by the way, all teachings concerning the rapture, the being caught up, take the position that the event is the resurrection!!! 1Cor 15- the resurrection is part of the gospel!
They do that with the Bible to promote pre-trib so they're comfortable doing it here as well.
2 Peter 3:15 through 17 - 15Consider also that our Lord’s patience brings salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom God gave him. 16He writes this way in all his letters, speaking in them about such matters. Some parts of his letters are hard to understand, which IGNORANT AND UNSTABLE PEOPLE DISTORT, AS THEY DO THE REST OF THE SCRIPTURES, to their own destruction. 17Therefore, beloved, since you already know these things, be on your guard so that you will not be CARRIED AWAY BY THE ERROR OF THE LAWLESS and fall from your secure standing.
Preachers/pastors have been twisting the Scriptures for centuries to support their erroneous claims:
The Laws of GOD/Commandments do not apply to "Christians"...
The 7th Day Sabbath is only for "Jews"... The "Christian" Sabbath is the 1st Day...
The Feasts of YeHoVaH (a.k.a. "Jewish Feasts") are not for "Christians"...
You can quote Scripture after Scripture to refute these errors, but changing someone's mind about what they want to believe is extremely difficult...
It's always the same thing...
You can read word for word what the Messiah stated, but for some reason folks always go back to the same thing:
"But Paul said"...
I was hoping to learn something. Why are you not showing the scriptures addresses? For me, it would be 31:55 32:01 more
helpful to teach post tribulation according to scripture than to refute pre-trib rapture by showing Lee’s or any other person’s quotes.
I want to believe the Truth of the Word of God period. I have no desire to have my ears ticked by arguments that are not supported by the Word, whether it’s Lee or anyone else. I think most people really want to know the truth ans not be deceived by anyone whether if feels good or not.
I made the same point
He has many videos explaining and expounding on the many scriptural proofs of a post trib rapture (or prewrath at best.) But refuting false teaching matters. Look at how quickly the cults gain followers when the church is slow to refute them.
@@DianaSzucs-jv7yo - I agree that we have to refute false teachings. I just need to study the scripture more for myself. I am responsible for what I believe that’s taught so I’ll know the Truth went it’s taught by others. Thank you for your comment.
@@kimmiekimf6602 agreed.
Ah man...how sad 😢. The dying belief of once saved always saved is being thrown out the window.. 😢. Very few of us left that believe in once saved always saved. Which, ironically, is the correct Bible position. The belief is being fizzled out, but I'm keeping the hope of forever saved alive in my house by passing on the biblical tradition to my kids before nobody believes in it anymore
Joel…would you take a look at hiw Jimmy Evans teaches his version of pretrib rapture?
It seems he uses his opinion rather than scripture to come up to conclusions. You cannot come up with a rapture 1290 days after something by doing anything other than guessing.
Nowhere in scripture will you find
"7 Years Tribulation." Remember??
The covenant is "broken?" Jesus made a short work of it.
1,335 days Tribulation of The Saints. 1,260 of those days "clothed" in the Team Up.
Two people can look at the same thing and see it differently. There are some who can prove the Rapture with scripture. And there are others who can prove there is no Rapture with scripture. It’s how you interpret it.
It's more of a matter of what you choose to include or exclude from the argument
Then they that feared the LORD spake often one to another: and the LORD hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before Him for them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon His name. *And they shall be Mine, saith the LORD of hosts, in that day when I make up My jewels* 💎; *and I will spare them,* as a man spareth his own son that serveth him. Then shall ye return, and discern between the righteous and the wicked, between him that serveth God, and him that serveth Him not. (Malachi 3:16-18)
Wilt thou set thine eyes upon that which is not? *For riches* 💎 *certainly make themselves wings; they fly away as an eagle toward heaven.* (Proverbs 23:5)
Jesus himself said that the 1st resurrection or rapture is immediately after the tribulation of those days and not before.
If anybody can fabricate and twist scripture to show a pre-trib resurrection, then you're calling Jesus a liar
@@theendtimesarehere correct, he will spare those who served him when he comes.
*Arise, shine; for thy light is come, and the glory of the Lord is risen upon thee.* For, behold, the *DARKNESS* shall cover the earth, and *GROSS DARKNESS* the people: *But the Lord shall arise upon thee, and His glory shall be seen upon thee.* (Isaiah 60:1-2)
*Who are these that fly as a cloud, and as the doves to their windows? Surely the isles shall wait for Me,* and the ships of Tarshish first, to bring thy sons from far, their silver and their gold with them, *unto the name of the Lord thy God, and to the Holy One of Israel, because He hath glorified thee.* (Isaiah 60:8-9)
Joel I’m not sure if you will get this message but I have many Calvinist friends who believe in the Amillennial eschatology. You mentioned that it was the dominant view held by the church for most of its history.
Do you have a video explaining this position and how it was adopted? If not do you know somewhere I could go to get some education?
It's a very catholic belief
WROTE BIBLE 2 TIMOTHY 3:16
We don't need any supposed "early church fathers" or anyone else to support a pretrib rapture. A rapture argument is Not something you "win". The believers see it as something that is hidden in plain sight. The ones that deny do not. Our personal conditioning plays a large part on which way we go.
I was raised pretrib. My father was an Independant, pretrib, OSAS, KJV-O Baptist preacher. But I could not find the reassurance of an escape in the Bible. The "evidence" I was given all required verse twisting, ignoring grammar, cutting out parts of the Bible as "not for us", and pretending that historical narratives and parables all meant something that was not stated.
The clincher is this: Amos declared that God will do nothing unless he first makes it KNOWN to his prophets. Revealed, published, laid bare. This is the opposite of IMPLIED but never stated.
Knowledge of truth is the primary safeguard against deception. The elect must know, and they must learn to test and prove the spirits until they do know what is of God and what is of Satan. The words of the Master, Take heed, I have told you, plainly imply that personal knowledge of danger is part of the Lord's way of guarding His own. Those who blindly rely upon the keeping power of God without seeking to understand how to escape deception, when forewarned to take heed by the Lord, will surely find themselves entrapped by the subtle foe.
It's so important to get revelation from the scriptures and not man, or the traditions of man!
There is only 1 Second coming of Jesus Christ!
Jesus only teaches 2 resurrections!
One resurrection of the righteous and 1 resurrection of the unrighteous.
John 5:28-29
Blessed is he who takes place in the 1st resurrection!
If there is only 1 resurrection of the righteous when does it have to take place for ALL the saints to be included?
Can't be 7 years before the tribulation.
It has to be at the end for ALL the saints to receive a new glorified body.
Please seek the Lord in His Holy Word and His Spirit shall lead into all truth. 1 John 2:27!
God Bless!
some comments don't show up unless you use the sort by option.
Yes its called "top" for a reason. How about you go away with your hand nonsense
@@seekingtruth1508 go away spammer. I know you're one of those posting once a day "watch out for handy manny" on videos. Go WASTE yes WASTE your time on someone else's videos, or perhaps accomplish something HELPFUL for once. You're no more useful than date setters.
@@handles617 Eph_5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them.
@Seeking Truth you are "exposing" your own nonsense, And it is precisely your kind of nonsense that distracts believers and turns away potential believers
I feel myself not necessarily pretrib also but why are we not quoting scripture rather than Ephraim?
We did several sessions explaining the Scriptural reasons why a Pretrib rapture is unbiblical. Now, we are exposing how some dishonest brokers in the pretrib camp are trying to twist the words of the early Church.
Hey brother,check Matthew 24 KJV,Mark 13 KJV, Luke 21 KJV
I don’t know what I am. Definitely see believers not experiencing wrath, = to me the Bowl Judgments, but preTribbers generally say ALL 7 yrs is wrath & they like to mix the Great Trib period (last 3.5 yr of Beast’s reign) as all 7 yrs as well.
We do see the 144,000 in their white robes (glorified?) standing w/Jesus on one of the mounts, but I haven’t decided where that event is on the timeline . Scripture says they are part of first resurrection.
PreTribbers verses for the rapture seem to all have words: The Day of the Lord, That Day, Son of man coming, sun darkened, etc as Rapture verses. But if you do a study of The Lords Day, you find it’s: wrath, vengeance, terrible, judgment & sun darkened, others. This indicates to me THE DAY OF LORD begins basically AT HIS COMING. I also look at Seal 6 as basically the sign of His coming, sun darkened, moon to blood, stars falling etc - every eye will see.
And those verses used for rapture, if look in context, the disciples or ppl are ASKING about when is your COMING (to reign, to be conquering king, to execute judgment).
Regarding Seal 7, QUIET in Earth for 1/2 hour: My GSon was playing sounds of planets, sounds of comets, moons etc. Whether real or not, I asked him, do you think at the 1/2 hr of silence will the HEAVENS will be silent too? He considered & said yes. Me too, but I had never realized there were SOUNDS in Heaven! It was an understanding moment.
Blessings!
I meant to also say, the only ‘rapture’ I see in scripture is at The Gathering: the first sickle which is right before the Wrath.
Because of a difference of opinion on this, why would you call pre-Trib believers , "weirdos"? By the way, Lee isn't the only one you need to refute. You have such a multitude, it's too big a job for you.
They are indeed weirdos if they are pointed at the truth and they still deliberately mislead people by taking quotes out of context
I didn't.
As far as I can ascertain, preribbers believe that "tribulation saints" who are still alive at the (real) Second Coming will not be raptured but will live on physically into the millennium so that they can have children and populate the earth.
That's true! Once we get changed or we get resurrected, we will be like the angels in Heaven. We don't marry or we aren't given in marriage.
Someone has to populate the Millennium Age with children and grandchildren. We rule over Someone during the Millennium Age who is in their vile bodies...
Lee has provided a response. ua-cam.com/video/_2cbGwwD3pg/v-deo.html Joel's Greek is not correct.
PRETRIB Rapture VS VS POST TRIB
Contrasts Between Comings
The Rapture is characterized in the New Testament as a “translation or
resurrection coming” (1 Cor. 15:51-52; 1 Thess. 4:15-17) in which the Lord
comes for His church, taking her to His Father’s house (John 14:3).
On the other hand, Christ’s Second Advent with His saints (the Church=Rev. 19)
descends from heaven and arrives on earth to stay and set up His
Messianic Kingdom (Zech. 14:4-5; Matt. 24:27-31). The differences
between these two events are harmonized naturally by the pre-trib position,
while other views are not able to comfortably account for such differences.
Paul speaks of the Rapture as a “mystery” (1 Cor. 15:51-54), that is, a
truth not revealed until it was disclosed by the apostles (Col. 1:26). Thus
the Rapture is said to be a newly revealed mystery, making it a separate
event. The Second Coming, on the other hand, was predicted in the Old
Testament (Dan. 12:1-3; Zech. 12:10; 14:4).
The New Testament teaches about the Rapture of the church and yet
also speaks of the Second Coming of Christ. These two events are
different in a number of ways. Note the following contrasts between the
translation at the Rapture and Christ's Second Coming to establish the
kingdom.
Rapture/Translation
1 Translation of all believers
2 Translated saints go to heaven
3 Earth not judged
4 Imminent, any-moment, signless does not need a sign
5 Not in the Old Testament
6 Believers only
7 Before the day of wrath
8 No reference to Satan
9 Christ comes for His own
10 He comes in the air
11 He claims His bride
12 Only His own see Him
13 Tribulation begins
2nd Coming/ Estab. Kingdom
1 No translation at all
2 Translated saints return to earth
3 Earth judged & righteousness
established
4 Follows definite predicted signs
including tribulation
5 Predicted often in Old Testament
6 Affects all men
7 Concluding the day of wrath
8 Satan bound
9 Christ comes with His own
10 He comes to the earth
11 He comes with His bride
12 Every eye shall see Him
13 Millennial Kingdom begins
Scripture concludes that these “contrasts should make it
evident that the translation of the church is an event quite different in
character and time from the return of the Lord to establish His kingdom,
and confirms the conclusion that the translation takes place before the
tribulation.
Both events mention clouds symbolizing a heavenly role in both, but
other differences demonstrate that these are two distinct events. At the
Rapture, the Lord comes for His saints (1 Thes. 4:16); at the Second
Coming the Lord comes with His saints (1 Thes. 3:13). At the Rapture, the
Lord comes only for believers, but His return to the earth will impact all
people on earth may this help you all brothers and sisters in Christ
Fortunately since this is obviously a copy and paste, I will say with no remorse that what you just claimed is simply false. Your entire basis is that there are differences in the verses, therefore the answer must be different events, but even the ones you claim are 2nd comings have differences, yet despite these you will claim they are the same. This is a double standard. This inconsistency is precisely what makes it so preposterous.
FYI, the verse never says the "rapture is a mystery" it says the mystery is that not everyone would "sleep" or DIE at that moment in time, but would be changed regardless.
So to reiterate, 99% of your entire comment seems to be you just claiming differences that prove they are different, yet conveniently ignore that even the verses you would claim are 2nd coming verses HAVE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN THEM. If you were consistent with your line of thought, you would then arrive at several more "comings" not just a single preliminary rapture and then the 2nd coming.
It's His 3rd coming. He ascended into Heaven to show Himself to The Father, then He let Thomas touch Him. He didn't let Mary touch Himself at the tomb.
I've said the same thing...
Why are we arguing amongst ourselves? Stop dividing us! 😢
While I strongly believe in unity, there does come a time when liars need to be called out
Say you are pretrib without saying you are pretrib.
God wants us to unite in His way not in man's way. Still remeber what happen to Nimrod when he said let us unite so they reach God.. well too bad coz God went down and confused them..
@@handles617 Not sure why you would call difference of opinion liars.
I am not preeTrib. I follow FAI and believe in preWrath. I just hate this division. Things are ramping up and we need each other. I would hope as we go down this road we can embrace each other, help each other, Love one another.
I’d like to see this debate. From this video alone I’m not convinced Pseudo Ephraim is saying what you were saying he’s saying. I don’t necessarily care what pseudo Ephraim is saying in terms of what I see in the writings of Jesus and the Apostles though. And I’m with you Joel and love your stuff and support your work. Keep it up!
This verse you’re showing is an example of the PreTribbers mixing the Great Trib as all 7 yrs of Tribulation.
Jesus clearly says, WHEN you SEE the Abomination of Desolation standing in the Holy Place, THEN there will be Great Tribulation, such as the earth has never seen. Matthew 24.15 - 21.
The Abomination doesn’t happen until the MIDPOINT. This event is when the 7th King becomes the 8th King - 8th King= Bottomless Pit verses. After he becomes the 8th King, he comes out of Temple ‘healed’ & proclaims he’s god. This is the beginning of the Beasts 3.5 yr reign & it will be a time of GREAT tribulation (bc he’s so bad) & also when he’s given authority to persecute the saints.
I’ve seen preachers speak of the Great 7 yr Tribulation, & then in another podcast speak of the GREAT Trib correctly. I do think they obfuscate scripture to fit their argument FOR pre-Trib rapture. That said, other of their teachings are on point.
I appreciate these pastors/teachers in that they are at least discussing the end time & Jesus’ return when most churches have never approached the subj, thereby deceiving millions. Problem is their emphasis is on a rapture & not on Jesus’ RETURN.
Blessings!
Lee is awesome...dont talk bad about him
NO one is talking about him, but what he speaks must be according to the Word of God and not taking scripture out of context. There is NO PRE TRIB RAPTURE PERIOD.
@@michaellow625 I happen to agree with him and the pre-tribulation rapture view. It isn't a salvation issue though, I can hold love for both Lee's and FAI's channel
@@danielb.1567
No one is saying anything about love, respect, etc.!
Only about the context and meaning of scripture!
❤
@@dudleygordon6191 the pre-trib rapture makes most sense IN context.
@@danielb.1567
There is no context in pre-trib.
It should be called: pre-assumed. 🙏
Listen to the video!
I’ve been on the fence about the rapture. But every video you post is almost antagonistic against anyone that believes differently. I believe I will continue listening to another person I follow that believes the same as you. But with love.
Philippians 1:15-18 Some indeed preach Christ even of envy and strife; and some also of good will:
The one preach Christ of contention, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my bonds:
But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel.
What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice.
I sincerely make every effort to be as polite and kind as possible.
@@JoelRichardson I’ve been following your ministry for years Joel, not once have I ever felt in my spirit that you have taught out of anything other than a love for Christ. I do truly thank you for your ministry.
@@greywisker3180 Thank you Grey Whisker.
Why do you want the church to suffer in the great tribulation? Is it great tribulation comforting to you?
"Wherefore comfort one another with these words."
1 Thessalonians 4:18 KJV
When Paul talks about "comfort one another with these words", he spoke of the resurrection, that we see those who've already passed at that time. We'll be here for the Great Tribulation. Time for us to get ready, God's way.
You are buying into the New Age and Prosperity Gospel Law of Attraction. BELIEVING in a pretrib rapture will not make it happen. BELIEVING that the church must face the tribulation will not make that happen!
GOD has already decided what happens and to whom. He told us, in the Bible. We can accept that or go on listening to what men THINK should happen.
But, refusing to believe we could ever be expected to stub a toe aiding others in tribulation will NOT create a prepared or acceptable servant of God.
Links to defend your view ? Please.
Unbiased translated manuscripts of the early Church Fathers teachings are available, but it does take a little time and research. I believe you are like I am and have to see it for yourself, which is the best way when formulating an opinion.
One thing we need to be careful about and remember when we interpret the early church writers----they were supersessionistic (i.e. they believed in replacement theology). One relevant example is that the early church fathers often interpreted Daniel’s references to “the holy people'' not as national Israel, but as the church (or a mixture of the two).
With that all said, the early Church Fathers are just a general source and should not be solely relied upon as absolute truth, but they were closer timewise to the original source------Christ's teachings. Have a blessed day.
Get the truth only from the bible. What this man says needs to be confirmed, BY YOU, from the pages in the bible, during PERSONAL bible reading and prayer. When the Holy Spirit teaches you personally, it is real knowledge !
How about we all prepare for the coming of our Lord instead of squabbling over when that might be?
Let us each one return to our first love. If we do that, we will walk in love and find no reason to squabble over a non-salvific issue.
God bless you!
exactly as the end appears close we should be comforting others with the eternal hope we have in Christ the Lord
bringing them to a point of salvation, not driving them away with all this rapture nonsense. Yes it will be, but No One
knows when. All these 'ideas' are man made.
@Perfectly Loved with respect, it certainly does divide the church, which is clear in the comment sections, even to the point of people accusing others of not being saved.
We would be better served with teachings about repentance and walking with God, abiding in Christ. When our discernment grows and our walk with God deepens, we are no longer confused about Scripture.
God bless you.
@@Jesus_saves1990I have a question for you. Does the blood of Jesus make us Kings and Priests? See Revelation 1:5-6
@@Jesus_saves1990 I agree we should never compromise God’s commands and precepts for the sake of unity, and many of those compromisers are Christian in name only and not part of the Body of Christ. Any person whose hearts is far from God is not Part of His body.
When talking about reasons to divide, we are not to divide over non-salvific issues (such as rapture or not, Holy Spirit gifts, for instance) because it is possible to be a believer and have differing beliefs about both of those things.
The body of Christ needs to act more like a body and less like a boxing ring. We need to rise above competition and pride and learn to be patient with one another, loving one another and serving one another. We need to pray for and embody meekness.
God is not pleased when Christians bash each other in comment sections and it is a terrible witness to a lost world.
The chances of changing someone’s mind in a comment are probably less than 1%. It’s primarily a pride parade and it is not pleasing to the Lord.
@christincommon5496 it is true that we should not insult, and yes it is not a salvation issue, but it is still important to inform. So many especially pre trib will claim it is a salvation issue and equate it with their belief in Jesus and that if they question the timing they question their faith and they will live their lives never considering otherwise. It is one thing to be wrong and face it but it is another thing to be wrong but aware of what is right. Your faith will save you if it is genuine but it certainly will not help if people live ignorant of the different interpretations given for these issues. How many will fall away if pre trib doesn't happen and they considered a pre trib rapture a salvation issue? Will they deny their faith? Or just insist its not the tribulation? I don't care if you believe in pre trib as long as you are willing to be open
Revelation 3:10 NKJV
[10] Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth.
The Lord says He will rapture us to keep us from the last seven years, the time of Jacob's trouble (Jer. 30:7) for Israel still needs to realise that Yeshua is their messiah and all the promises must still come true that God made to them.
This Tribulation is not for the church.
The church goes through tribulations, especially with all the Christians being murdered by Jihadist here in Africa, but not through the Tribulation that is going to come upon the whole earth.
This is why the rapture discussion has nothing to do with your salvation. It's simply two men (Lee and Joel) discussing when they believe the body is resurrected to immortality. So we shouldn't be beating them down as if it was really critical to salvation. That issue was settled at the cross of Calvary. The rapture is what settled the physical body issue. The only thing the correct rapture view is critical to is whether your neighbor gets saved in a timely manner. Both Lee and Joel will go up when the call comes (pre, mid or post) but the people around them are going to be really confused by the one who guess incorrectly.
For example, if Lee is wrong, and its not pre-trib, then his Christian followers are disappointed that Lee wasn't preparing them for more hardship. They just suck it up and move to a mid-trib stance. Maybe some fall away, but the advantage is that Lee is still around to learn and talk with them. Lee's non-Christian followers also get the advantage of Lee hanging around and telling them that he was wrong but that he will help them lead them to Christ since he now has more time on the planet and can recognize that its the Tribulation now. He will also be able to pick up the phone and tell Joel that he was wrong and could use his help retaining as much of the flock as possible. Joel of course, will be happy to help, since he is such a nice Christian guy.
If Joel is wrong, his Christian followers (along with himself) are pleasantly surprised when the pre-trib rapture occurs. No skin off their noses. However, his non-Christian followers are going to be very confused because they were told it wasn't going to occur until 7 years later and now he is not around to explain anything to them. So they are basically left on their own, against a world system, that will be filled with darkness and deception, to figure out what really happened. They don't get the home court advantage of Joel's teaching because they are left trying to figure out why he isn't around to go through the hardship with them. They will feel incredibly betrayed. It will make God's work of saving people during the Tribulation more difficult because let's face it you lied to them. They will be very mistrusting.
So you have to really pray and seek wisely, because if you are wrong, there is either some crow to eat, or you leave many people around you seriously confused. Or you can just get smart and be prepared and teach that all three (pre, mid an post) are very real possibilities and a good Christian is someone who prepares for all three phases starting with pre-trib (since it is first on the probability timeline).
His writings almost sound like it is part of some cult.
The thing is, these ain't stupid people. So are they deceived, or are they deceivers? Idk. But I DO know they're not stupid.
Either way, I think it's better to be patient with people who think dumb things - lots of people think dumb things about all kinds of stuff. It still bugs me, some days. Then I remember I don't know it all, lol - what am I deceived about that they've figured out, right?
All this talk about pre vs post....not a single one gives a proper definition of "tribulation. " The reason why there's arguments is because nobody gives definitions before giving a talk. So please, give definitions BEFORE giving your arguments
i enjoy post trib series, no one really focuses on it after their 1 sermon. pre tribbers get me everytime, when they keep coming up with new reasons why the rapture is any second of any day, how do you say otherwise you dont believe the bible. (actually its you who argue the bible, the bible makes it clear when the rapture is cough cough)
Matthew 24:48-51 KJV But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, 👉 My lord delayeth his coming; 👈 [49] And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken; [50] The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of, [51] And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
@Pre-Tribulation delayed means late. If you believe he is delayed then you believe he is late. Which means you believe he was to come earlier but did not. It's not referencing potential differences between timing relation of rapture beliefs, but of the idea that he could come at any point in your life or not at all and you won't know and to live accordingly and to especially not stop if you think he won't come for a long time.
Again, it literally says he comes and there is gnashing of teeth. Pre trib says you get a 2nd chance after he comes in a "pre trib rapture". This verse states nothing of the kind. They're simultaneous.
Ten bucks of course you won't address anything and will just insult.
@@handles617 nooooo. You are trying to justify yourself. If you believe Jesus CAN'T come until some nonsense that you have in your mind in the future THEN you may get left behind. Watching means SAVED. Unsaved people don't watch for Jesus to return. If you don't believe Jesus can come back TODAY, like right now, then you become PURE EVIL.
@@handles617 here is Pre-Tribulation Rapture in a nutshell. We are to wait PATIENTLY for our vile bodies to be fashioned like Jesus's glorious risen body, Philippines 3:20-21, 2 Thessalonians 3:5. Jesus also told us not to let our hearts be troubled... See John 14:1-4, he is coming back to receive us to himself, then we go into Heaven. The Tribulation is men's hearts failing them from fear, Luke 21:26. You really need to study more
@Pre-Tribulation and yet I used scripture and actual definition to justify it. Unlike you, who obviously never considered what the literal meaning of delayed is.
QUESTION: Are ALL righteous, Israel & Adopted, in Paradise when they die? Or is it just the Saints? Is this what’s considered, sleeping, dead in Christ?
And 2. Is Paradise the Bridal Chamber?
And 3. Where is paradise? (2nd or 3rd Heaven?)
Thanks Joel!
Revelation 3:10
Just as God kept Noah as God destroyed the Earth, he destroyed the wicked, not the righteous.
Just as God kept Lot safe when God destroy Sodom and Gomorrah.. he destroyed the wicked not the righteous.
He always keeps HIS people safe... As he said in his word that we are not appointed to Wrath!
God will keep HIS people SAFE as he pour out his WRATH on the WICKED!
Why would GOD pour out his wrath on the righteous? NOT SO.
So however he's going to do it... He will protect his people, and punish the wicked.
*Just be ready regardless! 🙏🏾
Yep we fully agree and joel agrees too, that isn't the disagreement.
Isnt psuedo Ephraim good for a runny nose?😂
Gazman67, "Isnt psuedo Ephraim good for a runny nose?" Yes, you take it with a pretrib placebo, and no matter how sick you are, everything seems sunny and bright..
Lee Brainard is in the right...And Joel is not right about what the Bible says regarding the pre-tribulation rapture. Lee explains thoroughly and Joel just talks a lot but has no depth to his answers.
Then is Jesus wrong in Matthew 24,mark13 and luke21?❤
@@victormiesner7804 No Jesus is not wrong...but who was Jesus talking to? He was talking to His jewish disciples. And what was He talking about? He was talking about what would happen to ISRAEL, not the church. Notice all the jewish only references Jesus uses , "the abomination of desolation"..."the temple"..."the sabbath"..."the rooftops"..."the Judean countryside"..."the elect" and even "the fig tree". Remember that His jewish disciples asked Him about Israel again just before He ascended when they asked "Lord at this time are you going to restore the nation of Israel?".
@@victormiesner7804 Exactly. Dispensors love to insist that Jesus was talking to Jews. That's nonsense.
😂 Oh will you find out.. Lee Brainard is one the most intelligent theological academics around. Your dispute has no grounding.
Pretribulation rapture! Don't worry folks you can come with us!
It would be nice if it were true, unfortunately the truth tends to be harder to accept. The sooner its accepted the easier it is and safer it is.
@@handles617YOU DIDN'T EVEN KNOW WHAT THE GOSPEL WAS UNTIL I TOLD YOU!!! YOU ARE LOST
@Pre-Tribulation Keep doing it ,you are proving things to others with your comments and behavior
@@CaptainFritz don't care. I am too old, and I am a veteran. They can buy a box of Kleenex and bon bons for all I care. If someone doesn't even know what the Gospel of Salvation is? Then they should ask questions instead of act like they are a theologeon
@Pre-Tribulation The truth matters...you are never too old to repent of this nonsense.
11:41
I'm extremely well known, bught not "known." DEBATE ME, €noch The Clock ( First to Preach, Last Martyr).
The Truth will make you
Tremble.
Ezekiel 38:17 &
Revelation 10:11
Revelation 14:13 "works" is martyrdom. I €noch St. Johnny have been here 8 times, this is the last. "We have an expected end."
John was more than a Prophet.
DANIEL 12:1 The Baptist is JACOB and... 6 more Thunders.
Go away spammer
Job 1:21 v. John 3:4
Virgin Mary was my mother
in this life. Jesus didn't lie.
😂
@@handles617 I €noch have only begun to torment you Christmas Clowns ... Jude 1:22-23
lol first you pre wrathers or post trivets say we need to find something older than Jb Darby, we find it now you attack that. We shall not all sleep means we won’t all die. Someone’s going to be alive and remaining to be caught up, that’s Paul’s writing in Thessalonians. I’d be more concerned with what revelation has to say about you guys who beats us fellow servants and believe me the most hate I’ve received has never been from a pre triber!
Again??!
YOU LIE OR WILLING IGNORANCE OR JUST CANT BELIEVE YOU MARK YOURSELF FOR TRIBULATION JOHN 14 :1-3 / TITUS 2:13. CHURCH FATHERS DID NOT WRITE BIBLE APOSTLES
How do you call someone a liar and then insist you’re being respectful? I feel like you’re gaslighting us.
I’m having a difficult time hearing the teaching bc it’s so obvious the disdain you carry for this Brainard.
Just sayin….
Well, as to be expected, you’re wrong, and you’re just pandering to and feeding the deceived at this point. Some of the hateful comments on this video by those deceived believers are sickening, which speaks volumes.
Anyway, while you’re on the path of trying to tear down well-learned brethren on YT, you should try you hand at Dr Barry Awe. 😆👍🏻
The only thing lee shows himself to be well learned at is how to try and appear to be right. It takes a really selfish person to exclude or include words at will without even acknowledging it, especially when it blatantly changes the meaning. Like with what he did wheb he changed "it all" to "at all" which changed it from not all of it to none of it. It's just LYING
@@handles617Do you know what is the Gospel of Salvation for today?
The Greatest Sign that we are nearing the end of the Gentile Age and the Rapture of the Church is COUNTERFEIT DECEIVING RELIGIOUS DECEPTION.
JUDE 1
3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
These people from above in verse 4 of the book of Jude are from what the world calls Christians, but what God according to his word, has said through the apostle Paul, they are being deceived and are believing another gospel, which is a counterfeit one that can not save them from their sins.
What happens if we Preach or accept a different Gospel than Paul preached. Paul preached the Gospel through the revelation of Jesus Christ.
I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another Gospel: Which is not another, but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
As we said before, so I say now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you then that ye have received, let him be accursed.
But I certify you, brethren that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught.
it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ. (Galatians 1:1-12)
If any religion or church, or person teaches or adds anything to the gospel of our lord and Saviour Jesus Christ to be saved, they and all who believe in them and trust in them according to the apostle Paul they are accursed. (damned).
There is no church or religion on the planet that can save your soul, it can only be found in a person a name above every name the lord Jesus Christ
only he can save your soul and give you eternal life, and belong to the one and only church that matters God's church.
The gospel of salvation is not sacraments is not liturgy, is not the worship of the eucharist, is not water baptism, not by infant baptism, is not doing good works, not by speaking in tongues,
is not penance, is not the mass, is not by worshiping Mary, and is not a rosary and is not by a priest saying the last rites prayer, or by purgatory, not by keeping the law(10 commandments)
not by keeping the sabbath not by church membership, not by fasting, and your not saved by tithing giving 10% to the church) or confession of your sins to a priest.
If any religion or church or person teaches or adds anything to the gospel of our lord and Saviour Jesus Christ to be saved, they and all who believe in them and trust in them according to the apostle Paul they are accursed. (damned).
Here are some religions that add to the gospel for salvation. seventh day Adventist, episcopal church, Judaism, Lutherans, Anglicans, some Pentecostal churches that require speaking in tongues to verify you have the spirit of Christ, catholic church. Jehovah Witnesses, Mormons
The gospel is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes (Romans 1:16). It is not based on human traditions, rituals, or works, but on the finished work of Christ on the cross. He died for our sins, was buried, and rose again on the third day, according to the Scriptures (1 Corinthians 15:3-4).
The gospel reveals God's love for us and his justice. He loves us so much that he sent his only Son to die in our place, to pay the penalty for our sins and to satisfy his wrath against us (John 3:16). He is also holy and righteous, and he cannot overlook our rebellion and disobedience. He must judge sin and punish the guilty (Romans 2:5-6).
The true gospel is not a message of human wisdom, tradition, or religion. It is not based on rituals, ceremonies, or works. It is not a matter of opinion, preference, or feeling. It is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes (Romans 1:16).
The true gospel is the message of what God has done for us in Christ.
Jesus Christ, the Son of God, died on the cross for our sins, was buried, and rose again on the third day, according to the Scriptures (1 Corinthians 15:3-4).
It is the declaration that Jesus Christ is Lord and Savior, who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood (Revelation 1:5).
Testifying Both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, Repentance Toward God, and faith Toward our Lord Jesus Christ. acts 20:21).
(1 Corinthians 15:3-4).
Moreover, brethren, I declared unto you the Gospel which I preached unto you, which also you have received, and wherein you stand, by which also you are saved if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless you have believed in vain.
For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures, And that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
Ephesians 2:8-9
For by grace, you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Revelation 1:5
And from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of kings on earth. To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood
ROMANS 3
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
We receive the holy spirit of Christ when we believe the gospel
Ephesians 1:13-14 (ESV)
13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,
14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.
I find it distasteful whenever a person that calls themselves a Christian does a whole video refuting another Christians belief on the timing of the rapture. All this does is divide the body of Christ. Lee Brainard loves the Lord dearly, and he preaches the gospel regularly. You'd of done better just doing a video on why you believe in a mid or post trib, or whatever you believe. It's obvious by reading some of these comments that this topic divides Christian and just confuses non believers that need to hear the gospel and how to be saved. Not how another believer is wrong about rapture timing. We need to love one another and lift up each other and share the good news. That's are mission. God bless 🙌
Lee lied that's why. You can't be changing words like this. He added a word to a quote that changed the actual meaning. He claims to have spent thousands of hours preparing one of his books but doesn't notice that adding a word to a quote completely changed his meaning to benefit himself? No, I don't think it was accidental.
@handles617 Matthew 18:15; If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens
to you, you have gained a brother.
I think calling Lee a Liar is a bit strong, and maybe whatever he said was misunderstood or taken out of context, but either way, I don't believe he would purposefully tell a lie and the author of this video should have contacted Lee in private first. And then if he was not satisfied with his explanation, then maybe do a video on it. I'm sure the guy in this video NEVER gets anything wrong...ugh!
@melissatate6518 he did lie. He added words that directly changed the meaning and claimed it as the quoted person's original wording. Joel said he asked him in private, and the guy refused. It's not about being wrong it's about being honest.
Here is what I noticed about post tribber cultists. They are mean as Satan! Post tribber cultists also don't know what the Gospel of Salvation is. I have had a handful get the gospel correct over 10 years of me debating with them.
@@Pre-Tribulation a former pre-trib believer I can tell you I’ve experienced that hate on both sides. It works both ways. The body of believers should not be speaking to each other this way. Debate on viewpoints is one thing, but direct attacks on a person is uncalled for from any viewpoint. Satan wants division and this topic has been doing a great job of that. Sad to see. We can disagree without badmouthing and name calling. At that point it’s an issue of the heart. Any particular view on the rapture doesn’t make you a cultist. There are plenty of scriptures that are debated amongst the genuine body of believers.
wrongo!!!! but that is ok
??
“The endurance of the saints” is sometimes what it feels like putting up with Dispensationalism and pre-trib teachings.
Do you know what the Gospel of Salvation is FOR TODAY? If you don't, then you are just a common lost person who needs to get Saved
Plus Jesus endured until the end on the Cross for us. He died in our place.
"PUTTING UP" as if your position is to go unchallenged w/o question? You're only getting your DOSE of it because you seemingly have at least NOTED the many who offer up refutations to the post-trib position, right? I mean, why not just keep your eyes closed to e/thing going on outside of your little world, 'eh? But seriously...
If there were ONE passage that you could bring to a debate to substantiate the "POST" position, what would it be, and why?
2 Thess 2 clearly states that His coming and our gathering to Him is the same day. Matt 24 clearly says AFTER the tribulation. You have two pre-suppositions that will blind you to what Jesus has said: (1) imminency in the way you see it (2) wrath in the way it has been framed to you. Once you have those presups you can’t help but be deceived by the pre-trib lies.
@@mikehasthemic WHAT IS THE GOSPEL OF SALVATION FOR TODAY???? If you can't answer this, then you DON'T HAVE THE HOLY SPIRIT guiding you! I will reject EVERYTHING you post as NONSENSE
Here we go with the bickering and infighting again.
Way to go, splitting up the body of Christ.
Its not worth your time.
What do you think he should do? Lee is LYING by paraphrasing things that obviously are altering the meaning and then not even pointing it out.
so just allow false teachings to deceive the body of Christ ? yeah that makes more sense lol
Those that have made many failed rapture predictions already get very upset when someone challenges rather they are telling the truth or not
I miss the dislike button.
If you truly knew the heart of god, pre-tribulation rapture is the only conclusion
No, pre trib is just based on multiple false assumptions(guessing) and combines itself with heavy cherry picking, changing of methodology, and outright ignoring of context
@@handles617post tribbers do not know WHAT IS THE GOSPEL OF SALVATION for TODAY, but boy do you want to try and be a theologeon. SMH
@@Pre-Tribulationbye bye troll
@@handles617 awe... someone doesn't know what the Gospel of Salvation for today actually is... You are going to Hell. Not me... I am eternity Saved. You are just a common lost person
@@handles617 I have one final question... Do you have a poster of Dylan Mulvane in high heels holding a Bud Light?
You are completely wrong
He's literally pointing out the lies espoused. And he definitely not wrong
I came here because I know Lee Brainerd personally. He does know what he is talking about and you’d be wise to repent of your lies towards one of God’s servants in Christ!
1 Thessalonians 4:17, revelation 3:10. You take your rebuttal up with God!
Just because you "know" someone...
Does not qualify them as being right or even know what they are talking about...(both of which has been proven to be untrue based on evidence)
If anyone speaks something that goes against what Yeshua the Messiah taught, then they are not speaking the truth...
Yeshua NEVER taught that "Christians" would be raptured...
He said in John 17:15 - I am not asking that You take them out of the world, but that You keep them from the evil one.
This is pretty easy to understand...
Throughout Matthew 24, there is NOT ONE WORD about a "Rapture"...
Come, let us reason together...
John 17:17 - Sanctify them by the truth; Your word is truth. (GOD's Word is Truth)
Amos 3:6 through 8 - If a ram’s horn sounds in a city, do the people not tremble? If calamity comes to a city, has not the LORD caused it? 7Surely the Lord GOD does nothing without revealing His plan to His servants the prophets. 8The lion has roared-who will not fear? The Lord GOD has spoken-who will not prophesy?
Every prophet tells of a Millennial Kingdom that is ON EARTH, not that we will dwell in Heaven: Revelation 20:1-3, Isaiah 11:9, Isaiah 19:24, Isaiah 11:4, Romans 8:17, Isaiah 11:6, Isaiah 65:20, Ezekiel 48:35, Isaiah 2:2-4, Isaiah 25:7-8, Psalm 68:31-32, Habakkuk 2:14, Psalm 46:8-9, Matthew 26:27-29
The Assembly WILL GO through the Tribulation. Yeshua told us this in NO UNCERTAIN TERMS in Matthew 24. Yeshua is the prophet that we all are to "shema" (hear and obey). Yeshua revealed ALL to ALL of His Apostles, not ONLY to Paul.
John 16:15 - Everything that belongs to the Father is Mine. That is why I said that the Spirit will take from what is Mine and disclose it to you. (KJV) - All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
This is what Yeshua told us in no uncertain terms. Not keeping ANYTHING secret until Paul could help us to "figure out the secret".
This was not the secret Yeshua or Paul were speaking of. Pharisees ALL believed in the resurrection.
Two secrets: 1. The veil would be torn in two between Jew and Gentile Believers.
2. Those who died believing in Yeshua as the Messiah would rise from the dead and then the Assembly would gather with Yeshua in the clouds.
Matthew 24:1 through 11 - 1And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple. 2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. 3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be?
👉AND WHAT SHALL BE THE SIGN OF THY COMING, AND OF THE END OF THE WORLD?👈(THIS LEADS INTO WHEN YESHUA TELLS US HE WILL RETURN)
👉4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.👈(LET NO MAN DECEIVE YOU, THE APOSTLE PAUL WAS THE ONLY ONE WE WERE WARNED ABOUT [2 PETER 3:16] And most of Paul's LETTERS have been taken out of context and twisted to change their original content and meaning).
5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. 6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumors of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. 7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. 8 All these are the beginning of sorrows. 9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. 10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
👉11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.👈(NONE OF THE APOSTLES TAUGHT THE PRE-TRIBULATION RAPTURE. NONE OF THE "CHURCH FATHERS" TAUGHT THE PRE-TRIBULATION RAPTURE UNTIL MARGARET MACDONALD AND JOHN DARBY INVENTED IT. WHY HAD NO ONE ELSE TAUGHT THIS BEFORE 1830?).
[1 Timothy 6:3 - 3If anyone teaches another doctrine and disagrees with the sound words of our Lord Jesus Christ and with godly teaching, 4he is conceited and understands nothing. Instead, he has an unhealthy interest in controversies and semantics, out of which come envy, strife, abusive talk, evil suspicions,] AGAIN, NEITHER YESHUA THE MESSIAH NOR ANY OF HIS APOSTLES TAUGHT THIS DOCTRINE.
Perhaps YOU should look up how to rebuke a Brother?
Joel did this and got no response...
YOU need to repent of your accepting lies and defending lies just because you "know someone"...
GOD is not a respecter of persons and neither should we be...
If you rebuke a wise man, he will thank you. If you rebuke a fool, he will hate you...
Huh?
Jesus says no one knows the day or the hour
John 6 39-54 Jesus says at the Last day four times
Jesus dosen't make mistakes
Jesus is talking about two different Resurrections
There's a thousand years after the First Resurrection
So the Resurrection of the church is at judgment day
Jesus is Truth Keep the Faith
Yeshua didn't say ANYTHING was given to a "church"...
Please refer to Revelation 1-3...
It tells of the Saints in the Assemblies...
Nothing for "the church" in the entire Bible...
Saints are given white robes...
The "New Covenant" was given to the House of Israel and the House of Judah" (Jeremiah 31:31 -34 and Hebrews 8:13)
Believers in Yeshua the Messiah are SUPPOSED to be "Grafted In" to Israel...
@@bawbjusbawb6471
It never says Jews
Only the saints that overcome the Mark of the beast
Revelation 15 2
Revelation 20 4
@@bawbjusbawb6471
Revelation 21 24
Two groups of Christians in New heaven
Them that are saved and
The Kings of the earth
Jews that believe in Jesus are Christians