Very helpful video man! Big thank you! I've got exactly the same machine here and I've tried even today for my first pizza dough with poolish. I was also worried about the temperature of the dough, which I thought 26°C was fine. I kinda overstretched it too much and broke the entire gluten network 😞 Ended up to bake it as focaccia... Now, new attempt is waiting for me tomorrow - together with the learnings gained while watching this vid!
wow you have the same setup as me p134 and maxima 8L ...yeah i ran into the same problems as you... overheating and not developing gluten as fast despite its fast speed but there are ways round it as you mention...will give your methods a shot they seem super
danke dir. bald werde ich nochmal ein video machen über den unterschiedlichen sauerteig arten und hefe. maxima hab ich auch seit einer weile und werde auch hoffentlich bald zeit haben ein video darüber zu machen. man hat nicht so viel zeit wenn man in einer pizzeria arbeitet :D
@@Bbarm97 ah cool, bin schon gespannt. Was gefällt dir eigentlich nicht an der Maschine? Überleg grad ne Sunmix zu kaufen. Ah cool dass du richtiger Profi bist! In welcher Stadt wohnst du?
@@juliusheigl1015 in wien. das Hauptproblem ist die fixe Geschwindigkeit und die Schwere der Maschine. bis zu 60-65% würde ich langsamer kneten und danach schneller mit dem restlichen wasser damit das temparatur niedrig bleibt. mit der maschine ist oft zu heiß. man muss wasser und manchmal auch mehl mit Kühlschrank temparaturen benutzen (oder Eiswürfel) und geht trotzdem nur bis zu 70 und max 75 prozent hydro wenn man glück hat. sunmix kann ich empfehlen aber grilletta ist auch ganz cool
@@Bbarm97 Ah ok verstehe, ja stimmt das mit der Geschwindigkeit hab ich mir auch schon gedacht. Danke dir. Dann gönn ich mir vllt im nächsten Jahr mal die Sunmix hehe. Guten Rutsch!
totally agree. It just cannot do fancy stuff like other more advanced machines can do, biga etc. and it does get quite warm on the back which worries me
just for your info. at the end when I say a flour that can hardly absorb 70 percent, I actually mean a flour that is low protein/gluten strength. It is harder to develop that kind of a dough and a mediocre machine with a single speed cannot handle this well. kitchen aid etc you can forget about :D
Very useful video thanks. Thinking about buying one of these. I see your bowl is buckled. Did that happen due to regular use or was that from a fall or something else please?
it came like that :D but I got like 50 euros cashback because of it. It works still amazing with no problems and nothing seems to be damaged internally.
Very helpful. I am new to my home spiral mixer for 70% Neopolitan. I use a preferment (poolish). So, should I dissolve the poolish in the 55% of the water at the start, add 100% flour and mix at slow speed. Autolyse once combined for 15 min. then Bassinage the remains water and add the salt at the end? When do you increase the speed of the mixer?
hi. thanks for your comment. the speed of the mixer you can increase when you are doing bassinage to increase the percentage, closer to the end of the dough. I personally do not as the machine has a fixed speed. you basically increase the speed to increase the percentage of water faster than the increase in temparature. your reference for when to begin should be the temparature of your dough. if you realize that at the end your dough is too warm then you should have maybe started earlier or use colder water next time. theoretically even with the slowest speed you can work up to 70 percent hydration but obviously the faster the more practical this is
thanks for the insight! so to sum up: heat development and not having the possibility to turn the mixer faster is what makes it problematic if you dont use flour with higher protein? did I get that right?
Exactly. The higher the heat (above 24 degrees) the worse it is for the dough, if you can go fast you can avoid this. or you can use a bunch of ice in the water. Going to higher hydrations with low protein flour becomes problematic as such flours will need longer to absorb the water and the chances of the dough being to stressed or hot is possible. This machine is really good for any kind of flour up to 65 percent hydration, pizza flour 00, 0, or 1 for 70% hydration and tipo 1 for 75 percent or so hydration. I recommend getting a 2 speed machine but if the budget is really tight this will do the job just fine with some ice cubes. Additionally to mention: for a pizzeria you need a faster machine because a slower machine will mean that you will pay your employees more hours to stand by the machine. Where I work I waste so much time because the machine is ultra slow.
@@Bbarm97 thanks! I'm looking for used spiral mixers with a 20l capacity at a range of 500-600€ and all of them seem to just have 1 speed. maybe they're better than the maxima, because most seem to come from italy, dont know.. but after your video I'm really asking myself if this is a good idea, since I want to mix about 12-16 kilos with local flour (11% protein) and hydration from 70 to 75%. style ranging from whole grain rye and white wheat bread. since its a hobby, time is not crucial and maybe its ok, if u know how much the dough is gonna heat up, you just use cold water? now I always use water with about 30° to get the right dough temperature, because the flour has about 16°
@@jokebhurtz2135 for your specific application a single speed could work. maxima also has a 20 liter machine as far as I know with 2 speeds. The Italian machines being better is a myth and not really true. famag machines are good so maybe take a look at them. Depending on what you are making with the dough you can play with the temperature. I use cold water and ice cubes in the summer, just cold water in the winter, but this is for sourdough pizza dough. I know for example that people knead a lot longer and warmer for panettone. For making sourdough bread I follow the same methods mentioned here but that also has to do with the taste being effected a lot with the temperature with sourdough. If you have firm sourdough or use normal yeast you could go warmer and the warmth could even jumpstart the bubbles in the bread. For pizza dough the gluten strength is essential as the toppings slide in and out of the oven on a thin layer of gluten but for bread you actually want less strength in your dough to get the oven puff. A lot of variables but I think for making bread you can easily use single speed.
Hi, appreciate the video. I have a question. I have the same machine and follow a similar procedure with my sourdough starter. But if using dried yeast, would you add it to the flour before the autolyse or follow the same method and mix it with the 2nd batch of water?
Couple questions: 1.) How much flour was used in the video? Which is to say what is the minimum amount of dough this machine can reasonably make? (My batches are typically 1.5-1.6 kg of dough and wondering if this machine would work for that size) 2.) Why the 24 degree limit - do higher temps effect the gluten or does it effect the fermentation?
minimum 1 kg. 24 degree limit because higher the fermentation is very hard to control. depending on the mass of the dough the center of the dough rises a lot more. at 24 surface temparature the dough is actually at like 20-21. the surface of the dough is warmer due to the friction of the movement. you will see this is the case if you turn off the machine, wait 10 minutes and measure the dough temp
Thanks for very helpful video. You mentioned having better recommendation for spiral mixer than Maxima. what is your recommendation for such mixer? Thanks
totally agree. I think its also good for pro level. i think where it makes the least sense is the prosumer level where you might want to try other stuff.
Hello, Thanks for the vedo. Which spiral mixer would you recommend? I would recommend you to put your mixer higher so it makes your life easer. Best to you, Mike
The Famag Grilletta multispeed mixer range are excellent. Do not get a monospeed mixer as it will then be very difficult to get hydration > 60-62%. Monospeed mixers are a little outdated and meant for low hydration breads. This why they are cheap.
10% of the weight of flour is a good proportion. 5% works too but don't go over 15%. What is also important is that you let the dough mature in the fridge ar 5°C for at least 24h, 36-48h being optimal for additional taste.
I noticed you don’t really mention a recipe. Do you just pick an amount of flour you want to use and then just add the other ingredients as percentages of the volume of flour? Like, 500g of flour and 70% water would be 350ml? Something like that? And so on with the other ingredients?
yes your calculation is correct. giving a recipe is pointless as the yeast you use, the flour you use, the temperature and all the other variables will affect the dough and will be different for everyone. for example, using the exact same ingredients at the exact same temperatures I have experienced very different doughs from 2 different machines, similarly the flour and yeast will effect this a lot. for strong tipo 1 flour you can go 80% hydration but if you use caputo blue even 70% will be a struggle. There are some yeasts that are stronger than others or have different flavors, same applies to sourdough.
@@Bbarm97 Thank you very much for the info. I stumbled on to this video because I was fixing my Rollei 35 and had been watching your Rollei 35 video. I decided to see what other videos you might have. I also liked your sonnar video. Anyway, I am getting a pizza oven on Monday and noticed you had several videos about pizza ovens and this one about dough. I found the concept of using %’s of ingredients very interesting. I can see that there will be a lot of experimentation involved to find something that will work with the ingredients available to me where I live. Thanks again.
Hallo Torben Binding, ich eine so gleiche bei Hero gastro gekauft eco 8, und mein Teig ist andere jetzt , sehr flüssig, locker, ich habe die maschine fast 2 woche dabei, meine frage ist, veo die maschine ist profi, brauche ich minus wasser? Oder was ist? Ich weisst ist nicht wie funzioniert. Danke in voraus.
theres nothing wrong with it but at home when you might not have a firm production quantity or process where you might want to change parameters such as flour, yeast, hydration etc you want the machine to be able to keep up with it. Now I have been using it non stop for 2 years I can say that it simply cannot. The smallest portion you can make is too large for my household but as soon as you invite friends for pizza it struggles. The speed is a limitation and this is why you cannot have very high hydration dough with this machine easily.
How important would it be to have multiple speeds? So how big would be the advantage in the process when having multiple speeds? The financial difference is clear it's about 200€ ;-)
it depends. first very slow speed to let the dough suck up 60% or a bit more hydration and then increase to fast speed to do the rest of the water. or just use fast speeds to get the dough done faster. In my opinion the speed of maxima msm8 is plenty enough for 70% hydration but if you want higher hydration u need the slower and faster speeds. for 80% i would start with 65 percent at slow speed and then the rest way faster. For normal use the speed of msm8 is enough. If you can you should invest those 200 euros in different flours and see what you like the best and what combinations. If your machine is not great at hydrating weaker flours a trick I use is to mix tipo1 flour into it. for example at home I make 40/60 tipo1/caputo red. at work we use 8/92 tipo1/super nuvola. the flour mixture percentages depend on the style and length of fermentation.
what do you mean regrease? you would have to open the top and the bottom and disassemble, clean and reassemble. not something to do unless you know what you are doing
@@Bbarm97 there is only 6 months worth of grease in the machine when sold . I asked because i’m trying to find out how to lol. i recently just got this mixer and i don’t want to run into issues in the future due to not maintaining it properly, since i’ve already burned out two KA’s this year lol… also should mention im not using this for flour/bread.
its good enough for the price. if you will use it for very complicated processes with not the best flour you might have issues. but for good pizza flour and a simple dough its really nice. dont forget to put in ice cubes while making dough and it will be fine
@@Bbarm97 ahh ok. I have used this mixer with excellent results, I was just curious why you don’t think it’s good. Granted adjustable speed mixers are better but since this is a single speed that’s above the 100rpm average it preformed very well with pizza Napoletana dough.
famag griletta is a great choice. sunmix or mfitaly are also amazing. i can now achieve amazing results with this mixer too but i would buy a single speed only if your budget is tight. its ok if you have a tight budget, lots of pizzerias use a single speed machine. its like having a car, even if its not the best car you will feel most comfortable with your own car. at work we use a famag and its good. i also used sunmix machines and they are great as well.
great demo. Thanks for taking the time and care.
Thank you for a great demo…I found it very helpful…
Great video. Thank you you
Excellent!!!
I think this speed is a normal second speed of bigger machines, awesome video thank you for that
explanation couldnt have been better. thank you :)
TanQ bro... it is very helpful :)
Very helpful video man! Big thank you!
I've got exactly the same machine here and I've tried even today for my first pizza dough with poolish.
I was also worried about the temperature of the dough, which I thought 26°C was fine. I kinda overstretched it too much and broke the entire gluten network 😞 Ended up to bake it as focaccia...
Now, new attempt is waiting for me tomorrow - together with the learnings gained while watching this vid!
wow you have the same setup as me p134 and maxima 8L ...yeah i ran into the same problems as you... overheating and not developing gluten as fast despite its fast speed but there are ways round it as you mention...will give your methods a shot they seem super
Danke für die coole ausführliche Demonstration, echt cool wie viel Wissen du mitteilst in so einer kurzen Zeit.
danke dir. bald werde ich nochmal ein video machen über den unterschiedlichen sauerteig arten und hefe. maxima hab ich auch seit einer weile und werde auch hoffentlich bald zeit haben ein video darüber zu machen. man hat nicht so viel zeit wenn man in einer pizzeria arbeitet :D
@@Bbarm97 ah cool, bin schon gespannt. Was gefällt dir eigentlich nicht an der Maschine? Überleg grad ne Sunmix zu kaufen.
Ah cool dass du richtiger Profi bist! In welcher Stadt wohnst du?
@@juliusheigl1015 in wien. das Hauptproblem ist die fixe Geschwindigkeit und die Schwere der Maschine. bis zu 60-65% würde ich langsamer kneten und danach schneller mit dem restlichen wasser damit das temparatur niedrig bleibt. mit der maschine ist oft zu heiß. man muss wasser und manchmal auch mehl mit Kühlschrank temparaturen benutzen (oder Eiswürfel) und geht trotzdem nur bis zu 70 und max 75 prozent hydro wenn man glück hat. sunmix kann ich empfehlen aber grilletta ist auch ganz cool
@@Bbarm97 Ah ok verstehe, ja stimmt das mit der Geschwindigkeit hab ich mir auch schon gedacht. Danke dir. Dann gönn ich mir vllt im nächsten Jahr mal die Sunmix hehe. Guten Rutsch!
I have a single speed 10 litre Maxima. Works great for sourdough with high protein flour. Unbelievable value for the price.
totally agree. It just cannot do fancy stuff like other more advanced machines can do, biga etc. and it does get quite warm on the back which worries me
Hey, great job! Is this maxima msm 5? Thank you!
just for your info. at the end when I say a flour that can hardly absorb 70 percent, I actually mean a flour that is low protein/gluten strength. It is harder to develop that kind of a dough and a mediocre machine with a single speed cannot handle this well. kitchen aid etc you can forget about :D
Adding 2-3% pure gluten helps resolve low protein flours (
The 15 year old liquid sourdough - can that bought from Italy ?
Very useful video thanks. Thinking about buying one of these. I see your bowl is buckled. Did that happen due to regular use or was that from a fall or something else please?
it came like that :D but I got like 50 euros cashback because of it. It works still amazing with no problems and nothing seems to be damaged internally.
Very helpful. I am new to my home spiral mixer for 70% Neopolitan. I use a preferment (poolish). So, should I dissolve the poolish in the 55% of the water at the start, add 100% flour and mix at slow speed. Autolyse once combined for 15 min. then Bassinage the remains water and add the salt at the end? When do you increase the speed of the mixer?
hi. thanks for your comment. the speed of the mixer you can increase when you are doing bassinage to increase the percentage, closer to the end of the dough. I personally do not as the machine has a fixed speed. you basically increase the speed to increase the percentage of water faster than the increase in temparature. your reference for when to begin should be the temparature of your dough. if you realize that at the end your dough is too warm then you should have maybe started earlier or use colder water next time. theoretically even with the slowest speed you can work up to 70 percent hydration but obviously the faster the more practical this is
why mixer isnt good? cause of 1 speed?
Also would you be willing to sell a small amount of you’re 15year old yeast ?
Great video! Which mixer would you recommend instead?
I use this mixer to make great Neapolitan Pizza dough and breads. I would highly recommend this mixer.
thanks for the insight! so to sum up: heat development and not having the possibility to turn the mixer faster is what makes it problematic if you dont use flour with higher protein? did I get that right?
Exactly. The higher the heat (above 24 degrees) the worse it is for the dough, if you can go fast you can avoid this. or you can use a bunch of ice in the water. Going to higher hydrations with low protein flour becomes problematic as such flours will need longer to absorb the water and the chances of the dough being to stressed or hot is possible. This machine is really good for any kind of flour up to 65 percent hydration, pizza flour 00, 0, or 1 for 70% hydration and tipo 1 for 75 percent or so hydration. I recommend getting a 2 speed machine but if the budget is really tight this will do the job just fine with some ice cubes.
Additionally to mention: for a pizzeria you need a faster machine because a slower machine will mean that you will pay your employees more hours to stand by the machine. Where I work I waste so much time because the machine is ultra slow.
@@Bbarm97 thanks! I'm looking for used spiral mixers with a 20l capacity at a range of 500-600€ and all of them seem to just have 1 speed. maybe they're better than the maxima, because most seem to come from italy, dont know..
but after your video I'm really asking myself if this is a good idea, since I want to mix about 12-16 kilos with local flour (11% protein) and hydration from 70 to 75%. style ranging from whole grain rye and white wheat bread.
since its a hobby, time is not crucial and maybe its ok, if u know how much the dough is gonna heat up, you just use cold water? now I always use water with about 30° to get the right dough temperature, because the flour has about 16°
@@jokebhurtz2135 for your specific application a single speed could work. maxima also has a 20 liter machine as far as I know with 2 speeds. The Italian machines being better is a myth and not really true. famag machines are good so maybe take a look at them. Depending on what you are making with the dough you can play with the temperature. I use cold water and ice cubes in the summer, just cold water in the winter, but this is for sourdough pizza dough. I know for example that people knead a lot longer and warmer for panettone. For making sourdough bread I follow the same methods mentioned here but that also has to do with the taste being effected a lot with the temperature with sourdough. If you have firm sourdough or use normal yeast you could go warmer and the warmth could even jumpstart the bubbles in the bread. For pizza dough the gluten strength is essential as the toppings slide in and out of the oven on a thin layer of gluten but for bread you actually want less strength in your dough to get the oven puff. A lot of variables but I think for making bread you can easily use single speed.
Hi, appreciate the video. I have a question. I have the same machine and follow a similar procedure with my sourdough starter. But if using dried yeast, would you add it to the flour before the autolyse or follow the same method and mix it with the 2nd batch of water?
id not put yeast into the autolyse so afterwards I would recommend. good luck :)
Couple questions: 1.) How much flour was used in the video? Which is to say what is the minimum amount of dough this machine can reasonably make? (My batches are typically 1.5-1.6 kg of dough and wondering if this machine would work for that size)
2.) Why the 24 degree limit - do higher temps effect the gluten or does it effect the fermentation?
minimum 1 kg. 24 degree limit because higher the fermentation is very hard to control. depending on the mass of the dough the center of the dough rises a lot more. at 24 surface temparature the dough is actually at like 20-21. the surface of the dough is warmer due to the friction of the movement. you will see this is the case if you turn off the machine, wait 10 minutes and measure the dough temp
Thanks for very helpful video. You mentioned having better recommendation for spiral mixer than Maxima. what is your recommendation for such mixer? Thanks
A Famag
I have the Maxima 8 litres, I think good enough for domestic use, I don't know if you use at professional level
totally agree. I think its also good for pro level. i think where it makes the least sense is the prosumer level where you might want to try other stuff.
Hello, Thanks for the vedo. Which spiral mixer would you recommend? I would recommend you to put your mixer higher so it makes your life easer. Best to you, Mike
The Famag Grilletta multispeed mixer range are excellent. Do not get a monospeed mixer as it will then be very difficult to get hydration > 60-62%. Monospeed mixers are a little outdated and meant for low hydration breads. This why they are cheap.
Just got my famag grilletta😊 Can you tell me how much sourdough you use?
Thanks, great video!
10% of the weight of flour is a good proportion. 5% works too but don't go over 15%. What is also important is that you let the dough mature in the fridge ar 5°C for at least 24h, 36-48h being optimal for additional taste.
I noticed you don’t really mention a recipe. Do you just pick an amount of flour you want to use and then just add the other ingredients as percentages of the volume of flour? Like, 500g of flour and 70% water would be 350ml? Something like that? And so on with the other ingredients?
yes your calculation is correct. giving a recipe is pointless as the yeast you use, the flour you use, the temperature and all the other variables will affect the dough and will be different for everyone. for example, using the exact same ingredients at the exact same temperatures I have experienced very different doughs from 2 different machines, similarly the flour and yeast will effect this a lot. for strong tipo 1 flour you can go 80% hydration but if you use caputo blue even 70% will be a struggle. There are some yeasts that are stronger than others or have different flavors, same applies to sourdough.
@@Bbarm97 Thank you very much for the info. I stumbled on to this video because I was fixing my Rollei 35 and had been watching your Rollei 35 video. I decided to see what other videos you might have. I also liked your sonnar video. Anyway, I am getting a pizza oven on Monday and noticed you had several videos about pizza ovens and this one about dough. I found the concept of using %’s of ingredients very interesting. I can see that there will be a lot of experimentation involved to find something that will work with the ingredients available to me where I live. Thanks again.
Hi bist du Deutscher/Österreicher? Habe die Maschine auch und brauche ein paar Tipps ;) mein Teig wird immer ziemlich Gummiartig
Hallo Torben Binding, ich eine so gleiche bei Hero gastro gekauft eco 8, und mein Teig ist andere jetzt , sehr flüssig, locker, ich habe die maschine fast 2 woche dabei, meine frage ist, veo die maschine ist profi, brauche ich minus wasser? Oder was ist? Ich weisst ist nicht wie funzioniert. Danke in voraus.
I worked in a company where we make 15 tons of pizza dough a day using five spiral mixers, so I don’t understand what is wrong with it?
theres nothing wrong with it but at home when you might not have a firm production quantity or process where you might want to change parameters such as flour, yeast, hydration etc you want the machine to be able to keep up with it. Now I have been using it non stop for 2 years I can say that it simply cannot. The smallest portion you can make is too large for my household but as soon as you invite friends for pizza it struggles. The speed is a limitation and this is why you cannot have very high hydration dough with this machine easily.
Very informative vid - thanks 👍 … which country are you in out of interest 🤷♂️
vienna Austria
@@Bbarm97 ohhh very nice 👍 I thought you may be in the uk with the mention of ikea 😂 but I guess there everywhere 👍
How important would it be to have multiple speeds?
So how big would be the advantage in the process when having multiple speeds?
The financial difference is clear it's about 200€ ;-)
it depends. first very slow speed to let the dough suck up 60% or a bit more hydration and then increase to fast speed to do the rest of the water. or just use fast speeds to get the dough done faster. In my opinion the speed of maxima msm8 is plenty enough for 70% hydration but if you want higher hydration u need the slower and faster speeds. for 80% i would start with 65 percent at slow speed and then the rest way faster. For normal use the speed of msm8 is enough. If you can you should invest those 200 euros in different flours and see what you like the best and what combinations. If your machine is not great at hydrating weaker flours a trick I use is to mix tipo1 flour into it. for example at home I make 40/60 tipo1/caputo red. at work we use 8/92 tipo1/super nuvola. the flour mixture percentages depend on the style and length of fermentation.
Great video. Can you tell me what machine you would recomend instead of this one. Thanks
how do i re grease this machine
what do you mean regrease? you would have to open the top and the bottom and disassemble, clean and reassemble. not something to do unless you know what you are doing
@@Bbarm97 there is only 6 months worth of grease in the machine when sold .
I asked because i’m trying to find out how to lol.
i recently just got this mixer and i don’t want to run into issues in the future due to not maintaining it properly, since i’ve already burned out two KA’s this year lol… also should mention im not using this for flour/bread.
That mixer is a good one? Why do you not like it?
its good enough for the price. if you will use it for very complicated processes with not the best flour you might have issues. but for good pizza flour and a simple dough its really nice. dont forget to put in ice cubes while making dough and it will be fine
@@Bbarm97 are you the poster of the video? Just curious cause I was asking him why he doesn’t like it.
@@playnicegames yeah i am i just have a private account and on my phone thats logged in
@@Bbarm97 ahh ok. I have used this mixer with excellent results, I was just curious why you don’t think it’s good. Granted adjustable speed mixers are better but since this is a single speed that’s above the 100rpm average it preformed very well with pizza Napoletana dough.
Good video! Which mixer would you recommend instead?
famag griletta is a great choice. sunmix or mfitaly are also amazing. i can now achieve amazing results with this mixer too but i would buy a single speed only if your budget is tight. its ok if you have a tight budget, lots of pizzerias use a single speed machine. its like having a car, even if its not the best car you will feel most comfortable with your own car. at work we use a famag and its good. i also used sunmix machines and they are great as well.