Aside from how Bandai treats its franchise, I honestly don't think Digimon was truly trying to compete with Pokémon because Digimon was always about the v-pets. The western markets have pretty much shifted away from v-pets (toys) as a whole and when you're Bandai, a toy first company holding several licenses to other popular Japanese IP's, it's easy to see where the budget is being reallocated to: trading cards.
In japan digimon didn't try to be pokemon (somewhat, they still took inspiration for SOME things to boost their branding). Outside of Japan however, its pretty blatant that they're trying to compete with pokemon. Sometimes I wished BAMCO treats digimon with full respect the same way konami gave to yugioh
Even as a kid I had always thought and told me people this-"Pokemon has the better games but Digimon has the better show" Digimon was an ongoing story with stakes and drama and they had cliffhangers and its an exciting show for kids. I used to be all worried for the digi destined because Myotismon was a really big threat and just evil antagonist lol. Your right about Digimon not finding its footing in the gaming space. The best one they came out with was Cyber Slueth and so I would want them to continue to flesh out that idea.
Tbf most people who likes the digimon anime don't even go past 02. And even then most don't even cite anything BUT 01. Digimon fell off hard around frontiers when they thought it was a good idea to be "different"
Digimon is more complex and generally people love simplicity, which is why I think it was less successful. The show has contained proper plots vs being a straight up Saturday morning cartoon. Pokémon's gameplay of extreme elemental rock paper scissors vs Digimon being more like the responsibility of a pet with combat defined tipped the scales hard too.
@@N3RDCULTURE same! This playground war always seemed stupid to me, and then I grew up and realized that "a vs b, pick a side" is just how we're taught to see things. Heck most countries behave as if there are only two political parties with "left vs right, pick a side" as the only option.
@@ETPlayground I agree! It’s definitely up to you what you like at the end of the day, I just thought it was an interesting topic. I been wanting to play around with my editing skills and thought this would be fun to discuss 😄
I don't think plot complexity means anything. Kids watch it for the monster of the week and action it has. 01 itself was pretty popular among the 90s kids. Digimon fell off after they tried to reinvent the already perfect wheel around frontiers. Also digimon's gampeplay already deviated into the rock scissor paper mechanic by DW2. Hell the tamers series for the bandai wonderswan handhelds already did that.
Saturday morning cartoons were amazing at that time during our childhood years in the 1990s and the early 2000s. Pokémon was aired on Kids' WB program block on Saturday mornings (1999-2006; before the show moved to Cartoon Network in the fall of 2006), while Digimon was aired on FOX Kids on Saturday mornings (1999-2002; after FOX Kids program block was shutdown in September 2002 and replaced it with FOX Box, Digimon was moved to different networks throughout the 2000s and early 2010s including UPN's Disney One Too, ABC Family/Toon Disney's Jetix, Nickelodeon, Nicktoons, and the CW's Vortexx). Both shows were popular, but the Pokémon franchise was a major booming its popularity during the anime boom period in my childhood years in the late 1990s and early 2000s. Pokémon aired on Kids' WB lasted longer than Digimon was aired on FOX Kids, because of many children (including myself and my young brother) were watching at that time let the show grow its demographic ratings.
As a fan of both, I think what really hurt Digimon was Bandai and the marketing itself. When Digimon first came out, like Pokemon it was given a big push, but around adventure 02 is where the cracks were forming, considering 02 doesn't have the best reputation and Digimon the movie's failure in the box office didn't help things either. By the time Tamers was in the D reaper arc Disney brought Saban and was taken off Fox Kids, where it suffered a temporary death with Frontier on other channels.
You did not explain the anime aswell especiakly the earlier seasons when yes ash's side goal was to catch every pokemon but later on ash and other trainers even now build bonds and personal relationships with their pokemon. And the earlier films did have complex antagonists such as mewtwo and the unown/entei.
@@bewarebewear1507 i guess I should’ve said that while both do touch on the subject Digimon makes it a bit more of their focal point. I do love me some mewtwo and entei 🙌🏽
You don’t necessarily need to bond with your Pokémon to win battles though. Also you don’t go around collecting Digimon but are given one whose bond you have and how you raise it effects its evolution.
@@melissamurray8307 it wasnt needed but it helped build a relationship with the pokemon and thats what tye show's strongpoint was, and at times it was needed since certain pokemon only evolve with high friendship
@@N3RDCULTURE Nah, you didn't give the Pokemon anime a fair chance. The way you compared them was not only unfair but highly biased for Digimon's side, what with blaming the Pokemon anime for not telling the same story Digimon was going for when that was never the intention of said anime. Simply because the Pokemon anime tells a different story compared to the Digimon anime doesn't make it inferior.
Perhaps Pokémon has a better marketing strategy. It sounds like Digimon grows up with the audience while Pokémon continuously appeals to young children.
Pokémon and Digimon were both my childhood shows that I grew up with in the late 1990s and early 2000s alongside with Dragon Ball and Sailor Moon. The Pokémon franchise has been around since 28 years ago back in February 27, 1996, and the Digimon franchise has been around since 27 years ago back in June 26, 1997. I had a blast watching them during my childhood years (even there are scary things on Digimon that freak me out...). I remember back in the fall of 1998, when I was at the age of 7, while my young brother was at the age of 6, we watched Pokémon on US television syndication (before the show was moved to Kids' WB on Saturday mornings in the following year of February 13, 1999) during the early weekday mornings before we went to school. It was amazing to see Ash Ketchum and Pikachu started their adventure together after they met each other at Professor Oak's lab and they met friends including Brock and Misty. Also they've battled against Team Rocket (Jessie, James, and Meowth) numerous times. We used to have Nintendo GameBoy Color handheld systems alongside with both Pokémon Red version and Pokémon Blue version. My young brother completed Pokémon Red, and it was the hardest difficulty later when you play against the Elite 4 and the Pokémon Champion. He catches Pokémon to fulfill the Pokédex, train Pokémon, and then his Pokémon team was strong after Pokémon evolved to their final stages. My young brother lost Pokémon Red version a couple of years later, and I don't know what happened to my Pokémon Blue version. I think I lost mines as well. The following year of 1999, when I first saw Digimon on the FOX Kids program block on Saturday mornings, when I was at the age of 8. I thought to myself, "that Digimon was a complete rip-off of Pokémon." Because it has the exact same features like Pokémon, but years later, I started to find out that Digimon was not a rip-off of Pokémon, because it was based off of Tamagotchi V-pet keychain devices. In the second episode of Digimon ("The Birth of Greymon"), when I first saw Tai, Matt, Sora, Izzy, Joe, Mimi, and TK alongside with their Digimon partners (Agumon, Gabumon, Biyomon, Tentomon, Gomamon, Palmon, and Patamon). I remember Tai was in danger by Shellmon, and Agumon saved his friend by digivolving into Greymon and used Mega Flame (Nova Blast in the dub) on Shellmon and it was a black gear that was inside of him that got destroyed. It was an amazing episode. Tai's little sister, Kari and Gatomon/Tailmon were later introduced in the original Digimon Adventure anime. Then in the following year of 2000, my young brother had Digimon World 1 for the original PlayStation console system during the summer of 2000. It was good, we can free roam around the file island in the digital world with our Digimon partner to save the world from villains, and bring back the Digimon residents to the city. The game was hard as well when you encountered strong Digimon like Metal Seadramon, or Machinedramon. In the same year in 2000, my aunt took my young brother, my younger cousin, and myself to the movie theater to watch Pokémon The Movie 2000, and it was amazing to see Lugia in the film. As we continued to get more Pokémon videogames on the Nintendo GameBoy Color and Advance handheld systems including Pokémon Gold, Silver, Crystal, and so on. When Fox Kids was declining the ratings in the early 2000s, I stopped watching the program block, because it was nowhere as good back in the 1990s. This was happened back when they finished airing Digimon Adventure 02 on May 19th, and Digimon Tamers was began airing in September 1, 2001 during my elementary school years. I didn't watch the rest of Digimon Tamers, because of...well it's a long story, and it's creepy girl named, Jeri Katou (her evil doppelganger as the D-Reaper), it freaked me out and it gave me the worst nightmares in my entire life when I saw it when I was a teenager in the mid 2000s when Digimon was airing on Jetix on ABC Family. In the 2000s, we also played Digimon World 3 (PS1), Digimon Rumble Arena 2 (PS2), and finally Digimon World 4 (PS2). Digimon World 3 is my childhood favorite Digimon videogame right next to the first Digimon World game. You can have 3 Digimon as your partners, you can digivolve in game battle, you can fish, and you can play card battle against anyone (just like in Pokémon trading card games and they had that feature in Digimon Tamers). Also in the summer of 2002, we watched Digimon The Movie on VHS as well. So my young brother and I have watched and played both Pokémon and Digimon franchises during our childhood years alongside with Dragon Ball Z at that time, which that anime franchise was very popular just like Pokémon and Sailor Moon. But I think Pokémon was the main juggernaut success, because many kids enjoyed collecting Pokémon cards, getting toys, videogames, watching the Pokémon anime, and a lot more. Because of Nintendo and Game Freak (developers who made Pokémon videogames popular back in the day), focusing on one formula and adding layers to evolved the Pokémon franchise. While Digimon on the other hand, Bandai kept changing formula after formula that has no background of staying head to head with Pokémon. But I know Digimon is successful though, but it is not very popular enough to get other kids to get into the Digimon franchise after failure attempts to keep the brand afloat.
@@SSJ491 thanks for sharing that story! I had a similar experience early on with both franchises with my cousin, we experienced all the early games and shows together and had a blast! I was 5 when Pokemon first came out and it’s iconic to my young years and consumed my life lol
"Gut wrenching"-- really? Digimon? And you showed Digimon Tri which came out decades after its initial release. I mean, the tri series was definitely a punch to the gut in terms of being godawful.
Tbh tamers and jeri would be a better example. Leomon, her relationship with her father, takatos heartache watching her emotionally spiral after losing her partner right up until d-reaper nabs her. Tbh jeri legit always hits me in the feels just as hard no matter how many times i watch that season
Digimon lacks consistency. It doesn't matter how many difference you make it will be a problem later because the fan base will be divided because of how it is portrayed. I don't like this one because it's like consistency
@@zeanone9257 I think people would not go of "inconsistent" as much if they realize that Digimon is an anthology series much in the same way Final Fantasy is.
@@zeanone9257I personally like how each series outside of the first two series is it’s own contained universe with some being better then others and how confusing it can be, but I do like it adds variety even though it is not for everyone. Generally speaking most of the fan base agrees that Adventure(the first two seasons) and Tamers(season 3) are wildly considered the best series while season four to six being a mixed bag. Personally I liked the first five seasons and disliked season six, Fusion because of how much the mechanics changed.
I have a lot of reasons why I prefer Digimon over Pokemon. the first movie is the biggest example why with Greymon Vs Parrotmon and then Omnimon/Omegamon wiping out millions of Diaboromons while Let's Kick It Up plays. The original season and Tamers are still my two most favorites. I liked the story of Jerri in Tamers of having lost her mother, she gets Leomon as her own Digimon, but he dies too, making Jerri feel like she's cursed and can't love anyone because they'll be doomed to die. then we have Impmon being the most annoying character ever go on a pretty good redemption arc with him knowing Jerri hates him for killing Leomon but he still tries to save her anyway. I also loved how he was Final Fantasy 7 and FF8 themed, being an armored biker with black angel wings. all that was missing was a huge sword. Lol Digimon hasn't been as big as it once was but it does have potential to do so again if it had good writers and designers as it did before. that, and Bandai treating it better.
@@N3RDCULTURE I haven't watched Ghost Games yet but I hear it has some really good episodes. One episode I'm interested in seeing is the Digimon see a human die. they ask what they'll be reborn as since Digimon always reincarnate when they die, but it is explained to them that doesn't happen for humans. when we die... that's it. This is another example that Digimon can be really good if it has just as good writers working on it. I love it when a show isn't afraid about bringing up mature topics like this. just look at Puss in Boots 2 talking about death and appreciating the life, friends and family you have before it all ends. Digimon can live forever, reincarnating again and again until the end of time. but what about their human partners? this is a subject I want to see in a future show.
I would honeatly say that there is a huge difference between the animes, which I consider to be quite important: Monster Appreciation/Focus. Pokemon is about exploring the world of Pokemon and learning about not only pokemon but also how they affect their entire environments, changing not only how the location looks but also the folklore. Digimon is more of "and this is the plant village. We live in the dessert right next to a volcano". Over all, moat of the digimon world is treated as a tourist location to just pass by instead of a fully living and breathing world. Not only that, but. Digimon living in the digital world makes it so their impact in human lives is between minimun to non-existent until the plot says "if the digital world dies, the REAL world too" (i fucking hate the human world is reffered to as the real world). This also affects how they treat the monsters. In pokemon, hueting pokemon or mistreating theme is cause enough fo be an antagonist because, well, animal abuse. In digimon, you can be a psycho kid who goes around killing digimon with your digimon, and and then try to kill another kid's digimon pet and still be considered normal and an option for a friend (yeah this comes from Tamers). But, there is alao the fact that digimon themselves ans humans give little value to digimon lives unless it is a pet. This takes away from the importance of the monster in the monster franchise. And there is the second biggest difference: human/monster relationship. I'm sorry, but until Savers, digimon has no good human/monster relationship since all digimon have the same personality or have the same devotion to their human master. This goes to such a stupid degree that you can have the human partner have a crisis about the existencialism of his digimon partner, while hia digimon partner is absent from the plot and pretty much not caring at all about that. Really, until Savers, the most independent digimon you have are Gomamon and Gabumon, the only 2 you will see disobeying their partner to do what they want. I guess you can also include Agumon because of episode 21. Then, we have Savers where digimon have a personality which affects their partner again, not as much as Adventure but at least is there. And, then Xros Wars had a plot which was pushed by the main lead's digimon... only to then be completely obscured by said human partner and turning the main digimon into a comic relief, taking away his importance for most of the plot... but, hey, at least he does something. Pokemon, on the other hand, has mini archs for most pokemon and long archs for more important pokemon, where they show to be independent from the human. They show their personality and clash with their trainer, and have to work on that relationship. Anime Quality consistency: One last point is the consistency of the animes. Let's be honest, until Black and White, the pokemon anime was improving. Repetitive? Yeah, but was moving forward or at the very least not degrading. Digimon 02 is quite worse than Adventure, and the fans know that. Tamers, despite being held as the best series, had the biggest fall in audience because of beinf boring ans quite slow. Frontier almost gave the final punch to the series, completely removing digimon partners. Savers, despite me loving it, tried to be shounen but didn't catch many people. Ans Xros Wars, despite me loving it, had very poor ratings. This ends up giving the impression that Adventure was the only good one because is the only one which stayed popular.
@@gregorythestallion2984 Ok here we go. Where to start. First half, no offense but most of the 1st half of your comment is nonsense. 1. Digimon and human worlds dont impact eachother > Yes they do and massively via the internet. The contents of sites is even responsible for entire species existence. Most machine digimon only exist due to that. Digimon in most canons besides tamers also existed pre-digital age and influenced human religion and folklore heavily with the few times the two worlds interacted. Its canon that the bible exists because digimon like angemon came to earth at some point. Their world however fused with part of the internet which changed it and them to be digital. 2.Going around deleting digimon with no attachment cheapens them as monsters. Both humans and digimon do this >. While yes they do that, the humans are usually kids, generally thinking theyre in a dream or game world deleting npc programs or pretend conputer creatures. At some point they realize realize that digimon are alive and what theyre doing is bad and also come to terms with the fact they may need to do it anyway. The plot is high stakes unlike pokemon. Digimon have evil to stop and 2 worlds to save. Pokemon have 8 badges at stake and a tournament to win. >your also thinking about animals as pets. Have you seen a horror movie before? Monsters arent supposed to be cuddly and nice. Pokemon isnt really a story about monsters in that regard. Its about magic animal pets playing battle sports. They also have less agency than digimon because again, pets. Digimon act as partners and if you mistreat them they may even turn on you. [Look up digimon survive and the wendigomon scene. A digimon bites his partners head off]. THATS A MONSTER. Pokemon cheapens its creatures as monsters by making them too friendly while digimon maintains that they can be friendly but are still monsters and will act like it at times. The big difference in the two series treats their creatures is pokemons creator based pokemon off childhood bug catching and pet bugs. Digimon is heavily influenced by monster cinema like godzilla or gamera and tokusatsu series like super sentai(power rangers in the west) or kamen rider. The rest is all good points tho. A few are debatable but still valid imo.
@@Coomamon_Memes Hello there, I think you missed the part where I said "anime". I'm not a huge Digimon lore expert. Outside from playing most of their games, I didn't really find the V-pets fun nor do I like reading manuals for lore. Along with digimon having a pretty mismanaged lore overall. I may also add that I haven't watched Universe, Adventure 2020 nor Ghost Game. So, going over the points: 1. Digimon and human worlds dont impact eachother I don't know how it works in the v-pet lore, but for what I watched in the anime, because (again) I was talking about the animes, digimon don't really have an impact in the human World besides the excuse of "Destroying the Digital World destroys the Real World's 'technology'". Pretty much every series makes a point of how unaware humans are about Digimon. I totally see the Real World influecing the Digital World: *In Adventure is explain that the Digital World was created by human feelings in the ending of 02 (or at least theorized by a character) *In Tamers, Digimon were created by humans and so they had a development similar to humans, even making religions because that is kinda what the creators wanted (is a shame most of that is dialogue and never truly explored). *In Savers, all the conflict is pretty much created because of the Humans visiting the Digital Word, a human getting scared of the digimon, and so on. This has a huge impact in digimon life, but humans live mostly unaware until the Saberleomon army attacked. *In Xros Wars... well, they didn't interacted at all, until Omegamon digimemory landed in the human world. 2.Going around deleting digimon with no attachment cheapens them as monsters. Both humans and digimon do this Again, mostly talking about the anime, not other media, since their way of treating digimon is quite different, but still cheapening them in other ways. However I wanna stick to the anime since that is what I was talking about. >In the anime, the issue of not really minding killing digimon mostly comes from Tamers onwards. Adventure not only never killed unneccesarilly, but 02 showed a main cast which were highly against killing Digimon until it was the last resort. However, this changed in Tamers. Rika goes around killing digimon like nothing and even threatens Guilmon. She is aware of them being alive, she thinks they true nature is kill each other, but still we are talking about a kid willing to kill being she can talk to, and even go as far as to kill someone else's pet (and yeah, my use of the word pet is pretty deliberate when talking about Digimon in the anime, especially Tamers. This would have been fine if there was ever a realization about killing digimon willy-nilly is bad, but that never happens. Tamers pretty much kill any digimon they see as inconvenient at the moment. With the exception of Belzeemon, but that's because the guy had a quite thick plot armor througtout all the series. This goes as far as to Takato once showing he was eager for Guilmon to have more fights to kill and debour data to et stronger, this attitude is never challenged nor corrected. This creates a lot of issues in the storytelling, many of which are accidental and others not so much. They don't think they are in a dream or anything, they are fully aware. Then, we go to Frontier, where they don't kill willy-nilly but definitely have no issues with it. And, Savers is pretty ok with killing digimon, as long as it is not permanent. This creates other issues which you can argue were created by adventure. One, is that digimon lives don't matter since, like Dragon Ball, they just come back. Two, treats the event of death as not mattering to the digimon, not impacting them, or overall ignoring the fact that they could change who they are. This ever so slightly mention in Savers, but not really explored. And Xros Wars, they just kill whatever they face off, and then the plot protect the digimon relevant to the plot to then make them join sides with the heroes... and the riencarnation solved everything. It's a shame that the only anime where killing a digimon seems permanent (aside from Savers, but you need an extra step there) is Tamers, where Digimon are treated the most are pets and or animals, along with dimishing their lives and agency. Speaking of which...
>I want to really remark that I'm talking about the anime here. I really wanna focus on the anime here and why I feel pokemon have more agency than digimon. Again, this is a mostly a feel because of what I'm shown and how the shows present their monsters. One, pokemon are the animals of the Pokemon World, they are pets, they are partners, they are animals, with this comes the charm of being an animal, with this comes the taming of an animal. For easy examples, Bulbasaur had to be convinced to join the party and then they battled; Charizard was disobedient until Ash proved himself; and other needed time to make a bond like pikachu. They obey, they disobey, they scape, they show off emotions and are not always willing to follow the plot. They are pets, but that doesn't mean they cannot feel like friends. On the other hand, we have Digimon. Since Adventure, digimon rarely if ever they disobey their human master/owner. Now, why do I use this word? That's because Digimon are not animals nor are they monsters, they are creatures with human level intelligence (not all the time, the anime shows "feral" digimon, but most of them show to able to speak and reason with), so this takes away their chance to have animal charm. This greatly affects the way of looking at them. What do I mean? Well, a well trained animal doing a mix of obeying and disobeying really potraits a living being. However, Digimon partners tend to land on the "Always loyal, always obedient", they attached this to an entity capable of speaking. So, even tho they should have more agency than Pokemon, they almost never show it, they act more like pets than pokemon. This does not only affect the way digimon are handled when it comes to truly show them as living being, but this also hinders their agency in the story too. Man, Digimon cannot even afford to have a name, they just call themselves as their species... As I mention in my first comment, this is how things go until Savers, with the exception of Gomamon, Gabumon and Agumon. Gomamon was confrontational with Joe, when Joe gave an order Gomamon didn't like, he disobeyed (something the others don't), the episode where he evolved is a great show of this. This is not disobeying in the heat of battle, this deliberately disobeying. Man, even in Tri they respect this aspect of Gomamon, going the fuck off when feeling unwelcomed in Joe's place. Gabumon disobeyed Matt when he told him to be alone, and his conversions with him is what helped Matt to get his character development. Agumon was willing to abandon Tai in episode 21 when Tai had doubts about going back to the Digital World. This doesn't go so far because Tai changes opinion not based on agumon at all, making his decision mostly irrelevant, but it's something. Adventure 02 didn't do much to improve the situation, aside from wormmon, the digimon didn't have much agency. Then, Tamers came along and just lowered the bar to a new level. All digimon here are loyal to their owner, and are even brainwashed into it. There is one exception but what an exception. Guilmon initiates a lot of character progression for Takato. This is good... for Takato. Guilmon is mostly unaware or unvolved of said development. His particular personality and though never really had an impact on Takato, is the other way around. This goes to such an extend that Takato has a mental breakdown about Guilmon being special or not now that he knows he is not unique and is just a recolection of data... Guilmon doesn't take part of this conflict at all, despite the conflict being about him! This applies to Megidramon too. We are told Guilmon feels something, that Takato is doing something to Guilmon, but Guilmon never gives his input in all of this, not prior, not during, nor after the event, this feeling and thoughts are just not important, only Takato's. Yeah, this worked greatly to make Takato a good character, but this was at the expends of Guilmon as a character. And when Matrix is introduced, Guilmon is straight up assessinated, is just Takato piloting the thing. And this applies to every digimon in Tamers. Terriermon, goes crazy when digievolving, he doesn't mind, he only cared that Henry cared. He even goes so far to say he wouldn't eat other digimon (absorb their data) because Henry didn't like it. And then Terriermon pretty much doesn't have anything else to add to the plot. Henry is the one having all the conflict and thoughts. Rika, more of the same, she has the issue with Renamon, tells her off, plenty of times. Yet, she stays loyal to Rika to the end, like a petty dog. Leomon didn't want anything to do with Yuri. Then, one healing ray from the newly air-spawned digivice and then he is all willy-nilly to be with Yuri and even allow her to call him by the pet name he specifically said he didn't liked. And then Impmon... man, his entire character arch is about realizing he wants to bond back with his owners. Literatelly, a digimon going rouge was turned into a villain! Yeah, Impmon arch is good, until you realized it all happened because is a pet and the implication began falling in. And this is my main Issue with the treatment of Digimon in the anime: the animes are about the human kids, not the digimon. Digimon are a ways to an end, not their own thing. They are villains, info dumpers, plot devices, or visual representation of the humans character development, but they are not they own independant thing with agency. And this truly becomes insulting in Xros Wars. Literatelly, Shoutmon kicks the story to start, and then is regarded to be a comic relief and Taiki is given all the focus, to the point where he does most of the stuff a character who wants to a king would do, like displaying charisma and being able to convince masses. So far, and so on. At least we get Dorulumon, my god. Again, this kind of changed with Savers, Agumon definitely shows agency in the break up episode, but that mostly works for Masaru's development, Agumon's feelings are never really solved. Lalamon helps the woman (she is so irrelevant I actually forgot her name) get character development on her own accord... and Gaomon (despite being my fave) is just a servant. The combination of no agency in the story, being used as tools in a story, and being limited to that behavior, gives the impression that are more like pets than pokemon, when it shouldn't be like that. --------- Regarding other digimon media. I played the story games, all the worlds and read one manga (V-Tamer 01). So, I'm not really deep in the lore of V-pets. But, I'm aware that there are different from the anime and games. I still don't like how Digimon are hanlded the games, but that's a discussion for another time. I do like V-Tamer01: digimon have names, digimon have agency in the story, digimon and human affect each other's character development (a few times at least), and digimon lives are treated as important.
@@gregorythestallion2984 Hello there, i think you missed the anime. You should rewatch it. Sounds like its been a while. I really want to clarify most of my points were from plotdumps in the anime, which you should rewatch because you somehow thought i...was talking about vpets? Ok. Well whatever ill list the shows with the info to make it easy thus time. 1. Tamers digimon partners in tamers are initially seen by both as kind of a give and take business partnership. The Digimon have access to easy evolution while tamers get access to having a digimons power. They are in no way subservient and initially just acting in their own self interest. Renamon acting much like a fuedal samurai is loyalty in a very impersonal way. She initially joins becomes rikas partner by choice and even fights other digimon for the right. Renamon treats rika as a reliable leader, a genius at digimon and aset as a tamer but eventually wants to be closer. Guilmon is a baby with all the misbehaving and innocent mistakes kids make included. He needs care and takato had to grow to do it. Terriermon is a scamp but cares what henry wants out of friendship. He doesn't want henry to suffer due to his antics. Not a servant. Its just average homie behavior. 2. Savers Agumon in savers has a huge falling out with masaru and he and lalamon both bicker with their partners nonstop. Only gaomon acts servile and thats mainly because he respects and trusts his partner. The sir thing is admiration not servitude. Thomas is a genius so admiration is normal. 3. Xros wars Taiki has more partner digimon than any other character outside the ganes but is a too powerful to not carry an entire series and sideline the entire rest of the cast anyway including his own partner. Its not digimon digital monsters. Its taiki digital human at that point. I 100% agree about that. Tagiru and gumdramon however have a way better dynamic imo. They bicker to the point that they barely even function as a duo. 4. Ghost game. In ghost game gammamon is a baby like guilmon he disobeys his partner all the time and jellymon acts more like a roudy wife who has her man by the purse strings. Lol. Only angoramon is 100% chill but thats more because him and ruli are too laid back to fight and just vibe too much to disagree. Theres also gulusgammamon. It doesn't get more disobedient than being a partner and the series main antagonist. Lol. 5. Pokemon- Pokemon like pikachu that dont listen and have agency are rare in Pokemon. Characters actually make a big deal of it because despite having the badges pikachu will still disobey if he liked. The pokeball is very much a trapping device. They are stuck with their trainers. They can even be stolen like property! Smashing the pokeball while out seems to be a solution tho but so is chewing through a leash for dogs. Not great. Pokemon for the most part have 0 agency and are basically a word starting in S that i wont say (thanks yt!) and ones like pauls chimchar show it with how servile they act towards their not so great trainers. Oh btw ash befriended paul too so that point about befriending enemies that did unforgivable stuff is null and void That aside your forgetting the important part that makes all the servile stuff make sense in digimon. Digimon partners are linked with their human ones. They share a soul is the easiest way to put it. Adventure explains it kinda but basically if a human were to die his Digimon will too and theyre personalities are tailor made by the digital worlds will to fit their partner. Theyre not fully separate beings like you interpret and aren't really servile. Just abnormally compatible personality-wise. Thats likely why they dont have names too. They arent fully unique to eachother. Theyre 2 halves to one unit. An extension to their human partners. If you want vpet lore, that is its own thing tho and vtamer, which you said you read, runs on that lore. Vpets dont work like digivices in that lore so Digimon are their own, independent creatures with names. If you have a partner its purely by choice and a digimon can leave whenever. Its purely business with friendship being optional. In the anime its more personal with tamers however being the closest to vpet lore. Taichi in vtamer has a vpet rather than a digivice which has a lot of drawbacks like it cant trigger evolution as easily. That said, excluding opinions you more or less right about a lot of that. They should focus more on the Digimon as characters too Tbh i really want a season of digimon with no humans similar to the x-evolution movies plot because of that very reasoning. Digimon themselves take too much a back seat imo. Id like some character drama with them too. See how their world functions through their eyes, how they live, interact and handle problems like devimon when humans aren't being summoned to help.
I like that Digimon takes place in an alternate universe and that you get one soul bonded monster that through your bond is able to evolve. I like that there is many different evolution branches with how you take care of it playing a part in it. The story Digimon tell is great too and I love the lore as well.
bandai held digimon back the most. because they never comprehended the potential the ip had they completely screwed up not only marketing but product releases as well. to this day there are still several digimon games and merch products that never made it to the west all because bandai didnt care to market the franchise outside japan. we only got digimon survive because cyber sleuth sold more copies on the international market than was anticipated. and we only got cyber sleuth because the fans begged for an international release. without the dedicated fanbase of digimon telling bandai to release their products on the international market the ip might have gone down the drain completely by now.
Digimon are Digital Monsters, so by absorbing data Digimon can be any Digimon. Paraphrasing what I think I have heard. So then evolution (or in English dub - digivolution) is understable why Digimon completly transforms.
Actually canon fact. Digimons evolutions are influunced by absorbing data. Either from other digimon, their environment or even from websites. Also explains a lot of the waifu and furry designs tbh. Lol.
@@Coomamon_MemesIt depends on the season. While it played a big part in Tamers it was non existent in Adventure. However how you take care and raise your Digimon plays a role in each series and the v pets.
@@melissamurray8307 im talking more about digimon on their own when they evolve without partners. In that case its true across all canons. For partner digimon, the human partners emotions, personalities and personal growth matters most since theyre linked via digivice. Thats why partner digimon have pretty linear, sensible evolution paths like agumon>greymon>metalgreymon>wargreymon. They evolve to reflect their partners.
(Repeating this here so more people can read it) You didn't give the Pokemon anime a fair chance. The way you compared them was not only unfair but highly biased for Digimon's side, what with blaming the Pokemon anime for not telling the same story Digimon was going for when that was never the intention of said anime. Simply because the Pokemon anime tells a different story compared to the Digimon anime doesn't make it inferior. Also, the Pokemon anime might have started with simplistic characters and villains, however, over the years that changed. Ash from Gen 1 is not the same Ash from Sinnoh and in Kalos Ash had to deal with a villain (Lysandre) that is nowhere close to being as childish as Team Rocket was back then.
i remember Digimon evolutions in the game were amazing on gameboy advanced i hope they bring it back pokemon games r 2 clunky now a days mainly because open world pokemon games just started happening in 2023 the next will be better unless they continue trying new mechanics
@@christophernewhouse5832 Digimon cyber sleuth is probably one of the closest to what I want in a Digimon game but it’s still missing some oomf, I really hope Digimon uses new gaming technology to make the game we all want from them 🙌🏽
Digimon failed to produce a product that people can understand. What the hell is a digimon? In short it’s vpet that you raise from baby to adult. The only consistent product that conveys this are its keychain vpet. No other product (games, anime) conveys the vpet raising clearly… That’s why digimon failed. Pokémon it’s simple. Catch battle be the very best… straight forward to the point.
i respect what digimon tried to do with their tv anime. i find digigimon adventure (1+2+ tri) and its remake (2020) a very flawed in character personalities,story, and dub voice acting is whiney at best for adventure 1+2 and tri is just a overglorified teen drama. the spin offs were better story quality. tamers is clearly best written
Digimon's Realtime V-pet Origin was with some exceptions like Nintendogs a 90s Fad, with the anime, cards, & merch being the 3 main pillars holding up Digimon for the past 25 Years. I don't know why Digimon's Cardgame failed compared to Pokemon's, although Yugioh was the undisputed 2nd Generation King of Cardgames. Magic the Gathering was the G1 King before my time & I guess you could argue it was Dragon Ball to Digimon's Bleach to use the Shonen Jump Big 3 as a comparison to cardgames. As for the Anime & Merch, Pokemon focusing on Ash & Pikachu consistently for over 2 Decades was much more successful in the long term than replacing the protagonists each year. Also the 3-4 Year Generations with Catch Em All of about 100 new mons compared to the random reveals Digimon has was the better strategy. Combined with that is the problem of Digimon's Strategy of hiding away every few years starting after Frontier opposed to a regular presence which hurts merch.
@@N3RDCULTURE To put it simply Pokemon had nothing to do with Digimon's failure rather it was failed strategies by Digimon's owners. It's a complicated subject although to start with Digimon isn't a high priority series for either Toei or Bandai which is why the series doesn't have a constant presence. Pokemon conversely is almost everything to 2 of its 3 owners, however Nintendo still treats it as 1 of their 3 highest priority series. As for the consistency with Pokemon you'll usually get various species & you have Pokedex Numbers for everything. Digimon it's much more rare for say Veemon, Hawkmon, Armadillomon, Guilmon, or Renamon to appear outside of their respective seasons. Some Digimon have been locked to the V-Pets for decades like Holy Digitamamon, The D-Reaper is Tamers & Cardgame Exclusive, Did Galacticmon ever appear in anything other than World 3?
The Pokemon anime is being downplayed way too much, a lot of the things that you said about digimon can be applied, pokemon did that bonding thing before digimon, pokemon does it much more and the pokemon anime was not about catching all the pokemon. It was about ash's adventure and bonding with his pokemon.
You don’t have to bond with your Pokémon to make them stronger while you do with your Digimon. In fact in some universes Digimon are literally soul bonded to you. Also, most of the time Pokémon are kept in their balls with some rare exceptions like Pikachu and they don’t need to be ordered around all the time.
@@edgarcism Except the actually good Digimon games, and there are a number of good, or even decent, Digimon games. That said, in Digimon's case there was also a bunch of Digimon games that just never came out outside Japan. It wasn't until Cyber Sleuth that Digimon games had consistent US releases. Even the first Digimon game never came out in the US.
How can you say the digimon anime was a higher quality when it would re play “digimoj digit monsters digimon are the champions” sequence over and over 😂again
Bro its because digimon anime has a story with actual character development and plots with stakes. It has more to offer than ash walking about losing every battle, not aging and learning nothing for 25 years before finally winning an official league .😂. The op theme makes it bad. PFFFT. Pure cope🤡.
Tamers, Savers and Ghost Game are better than 2nd season in my eyes, Digimon anime is consistent unlike Pokemon, the only season which sucked was the third season of Xros Wars.
Digimon Tamers was a good show, until that creepy girl at the end gave me the worst nightmares in my entire life. That's when they made horror to a new level. The horror part is when I don't like about Digimon, which that was introduced in Digimon Adventure 02/Zero Two with the dark ocean (Kari Kamiya, Ken Ichijouchi, and Yolei Inoue had been affected by it) @@N3RDCULTURE
That didn't get an international release around early 2010s, because of low ratings. Speaking of which, Digimon Universe: Appli Monsters didn't get an international release either in 2017. @@darkmarv8045
Aside from how Bandai treats its franchise, I honestly don't think Digimon was truly trying to compete with Pokémon because Digimon was always about the v-pets.
The western markets have pretty much shifted away from v-pets (toys) as a whole and when you're Bandai, a toy first company holding several licenses to other popular Japanese IP's, it's easy to see where the budget is being reallocated to: trading cards.
@@omegaXjammur man, I always wanted one of those as a kid 🥹
In japan digimon didn't try to be pokemon (somewhat, they still took inspiration for SOME things to boost their branding). Outside of Japan however, its pretty blatant that they're trying to compete with pokemon.
Sometimes I wished BAMCO treats digimon with full respect the same way konami gave to yugioh
Any real Digimon fan will tell you, no, it’s Bandai that holds Digimon back.
@@mustbenatemoney you’re definitely not wrong 🥹
Facts.
To be honest, I don't think there was much of a Pokemon vs Digimon... most people liked both shows and supported both....
@@TheDeathmail I love both as well, just thought it be a fun topic to discuss :)
Even as a kid I had always thought and told me people this-"Pokemon has the better games but Digimon has the better show"
Digimon was an ongoing story with stakes and drama and they had cliffhangers and its an exciting show for kids. I used to be all worried for the digi destined because Myotismon was a really big threat and just evil antagonist lol.
Your right about Digimon not finding its footing in the gaming space. The best one they came out with was Cyber Slueth and so I would want them to continue to flesh out that idea.
Yes I definitely want them to take the concept of cyber sleuth and make it expansive and massive like the anime
Tbf most people who likes the digimon anime don't even go past 02. And even then most don't even cite anything BUT 01. Digimon fell off hard around frontiers when they thought it was a good idea to be "different"
Digimon is more complex and generally people love simplicity, which is why I think it was less successful. The show has contained proper plots vs being a straight up Saturday morning cartoon. Pokémon's gameplay of extreme elemental rock paper scissors vs Digimon being more like the responsibility of a pet with combat defined tipped the scales hard too.
@@ETPlayground great points 🙌🏽 I love both in their own ways and for different reasons
@@N3RDCULTURE same! This playground war always seemed stupid to me, and then I grew up and realized that "a vs b, pick a side" is just how we're taught to see things. Heck most countries behave as if there are only two political parties with "left vs right, pick a side" as the only option.
@@ETPlayground I agree! It’s definitely up to you what you like at the end of the day, I just thought it was an interesting topic. I been wanting to play around with my editing skills and thought this would be fun to discuss 😄
I don't think plot complexity means anything. Kids watch it for the monster of the week and action it has. 01 itself was pretty popular among the 90s kids. Digimon fell off after they tried to reinvent the already perfect wheel around frontiers.
Also digimon's gampeplay already deviated into the rock scissor paper mechanic by DW2. Hell the tamers series for the bandai wonderswan handhelds already did that.
Saturday morning cartoons were amazing at that time during our childhood years in the 1990s and the early 2000s. Pokémon was aired on Kids' WB program block on Saturday mornings (1999-2006; before the show moved to Cartoon Network in the fall of 2006), while Digimon was aired on FOX Kids on Saturday mornings (1999-2002; after FOX Kids program block was shutdown in September 2002 and replaced it with FOX Box, Digimon was moved to different networks throughout the 2000s and early 2010s including UPN's Disney One Too, ABC Family/Toon Disney's Jetix, Nickelodeon, Nicktoons, and the CW's Vortexx). Both shows were popular, but the Pokémon franchise was a major booming its popularity during the anime boom period in my childhood years in the late 1990s and early 2000s. Pokémon aired on Kids' WB lasted longer than Digimon was aired on FOX Kids, because of many children (including myself and my young brother) were watching at that time let the show grow its demographic ratings.
As a fan of both, I think what really hurt Digimon was Bandai and the marketing itself. When Digimon first came out, like Pokemon it was given a big push, but around adventure 02 is where the cracks were forming, considering 02 doesn't have the best reputation and Digimon the movie's failure in the box office didn't help things either. By the time Tamers was in the D reaper arc Disney brought Saban and was taken off Fox Kids, where it suffered a temporary death with Frontier on other channels.
Not only that, but also Dinosaur King & Fossil Fighters.
You did not explain the anime aswell especiakly the earlier seasons when yes ash's side goal was to catch every pokemon but later on ash and other trainers even now build bonds and personal relationships with their pokemon.
And the earlier films did have complex antagonists such as mewtwo and the unown/entei.
@@bewarebewear1507 i guess I should’ve said that while both do touch on the subject Digimon makes it a bit more of their focal point.
I do love me some mewtwo and entei 🙌🏽
You don’t necessarily need to bond with your Pokémon to win battles though. Also you don’t go around collecting Digimon but are given one whose bond you have and how you raise it effects its evolution.
@@melissamurray8307 it wasnt needed but it helped build a relationship with the pokemon and thats what tye show's strongpoint was, and at times it was needed since certain pokemon only evolve with high friendship
@@N3RDCULTURE Nah, you didn't give the Pokemon anime a fair chance. The way you compared them was not only unfair but highly biased for Digimon's side, what with blaming the Pokemon anime for not telling the same story Digimon was going for when that was never the intention of said anime. Simply because the Pokemon anime tells a different story compared to the Digimon anime doesn't make it inferior.
@@toumabyakuya What story?
Both are nice.
Definitely love both
Perhaps Pokémon has a better marketing strategy. It sounds like Digimon grows up with the audience while Pokémon continuously appeals to young children.
Pokémon and Digimon were both my childhood shows that I grew up with in the late 1990s and early 2000s alongside with Dragon Ball and Sailor Moon. The Pokémon franchise has been around since 28 years ago back in February 27, 1996, and the Digimon franchise has been around since 27 years ago back in June 26, 1997. I had a blast watching them during my childhood years (even there are scary things on Digimon that freak me out...). I remember back in the fall of 1998, when I was at the age of 7, while my young brother was at the age of 6, we watched Pokémon on US television syndication (before the show was moved to Kids' WB on Saturday mornings in the following year of February 13, 1999) during the early weekday mornings before we went to school. It was amazing to see Ash Ketchum and Pikachu started their adventure together after they met each other at Professor Oak's lab and they met friends including Brock and Misty. Also they've battled against Team Rocket (Jessie, James, and Meowth) numerous times. We used to have Nintendo GameBoy Color handheld systems alongside with both Pokémon Red version and Pokémon Blue version. My young brother completed Pokémon Red, and it was the hardest difficulty later when you play against the Elite 4 and the Pokémon Champion. He catches Pokémon to fulfill the Pokédex, train Pokémon, and then his Pokémon team was strong after Pokémon evolved to their final stages.
My young brother lost Pokémon Red version a couple of years later, and I don't know what happened to my Pokémon Blue version. I think I lost mines as well.
The following year of 1999, when I first saw Digimon on the FOX Kids program block on Saturday mornings, when I was at the age of 8. I thought to myself, "that Digimon was a complete rip-off of Pokémon." Because it has the exact same features like Pokémon, but years later, I started to find out that Digimon was not a rip-off of Pokémon, because it was based off of Tamagotchi V-pet keychain devices. In the second episode of Digimon ("The Birth of Greymon"), when I first saw Tai, Matt, Sora, Izzy, Joe, Mimi, and TK alongside with their Digimon partners (Agumon, Gabumon, Biyomon, Tentomon, Gomamon, Palmon, and Patamon). I remember Tai was in danger by Shellmon, and Agumon saved his friend by digivolving into Greymon and used Mega Flame (Nova Blast in the dub) on Shellmon and it was a black gear that was inside of him that got destroyed. It was an amazing episode. Tai's little sister, Kari and Gatomon/Tailmon were later introduced in the original Digimon Adventure anime.
Then in the following year of 2000, my young brother had Digimon World 1 for the original PlayStation console system during the summer of 2000. It was good, we can free roam around the file island in the digital world with our Digimon partner to save the world from villains, and bring back the Digimon residents to the city. The game was hard as well when you encountered strong Digimon like Metal Seadramon, or Machinedramon.
In the same year in 2000, my aunt took my young brother, my younger cousin, and myself to the movie theater to watch Pokémon The Movie 2000, and it was amazing to see Lugia in the film. As we continued to get more Pokémon videogames on the Nintendo GameBoy Color and Advance handheld systems including Pokémon Gold, Silver, Crystal, and so on.
When Fox Kids was declining the ratings in the early 2000s, I stopped watching the program block, because it was nowhere as good back in the 1990s. This was happened back when they finished airing Digimon Adventure 02 on May 19th, and Digimon Tamers was began airing in September 1, 2001 during my elementary school years. I didn't watch the rest of Digimon Tamers, because of...well it's a long story, and it's creepy girl named, Jeri Katou (her evil doppelganger as the D-Reaper), it freaked me out and it gave me the worst nightmares in my entire life when I saw it when I was a teenager in the mid 2000s when Digimon was airing on Jetix on ABC Family.
In the 2000s, we also played Digimon World 3 (PS1), Digimon Rumble Arena 2 (PS2), and finally Digimon World 4 (PS2). Digimon World 3 is my childhood favorite Digimon videogame right next to the first Digimon World game. You can have 3 Digimon as your partners, you can digivolve in game battle, you can fish, and you can play card battle against anyone (just like in Pokémon trading card games and they had that feature in Digimon Tamers). Also in the summer of 2002, we watched Digimon The Movie on VHS as well.
So my young brother and I have watched and played both Pokémon and Digimon franchises during our childhood years alongside with Dragon Ball Z at that time, which that anime franchise was very popular just like Pokémon and Sailor Moon. But I think Pokémon was the main juggernaut success, because many kids enjoyed collecting Pokémon cards, getting toys, videogames, watching the Pokémon anime, and a lot more. Because of Nintendo and Game Freak (developers who made Pokémon videogames popular back in the day), focusing on one formula and adding layers to evolved the Pokémon franchise. While Digimon on the other hand, Bandai kept changing formula after formula that has no background of staying head to head with Pokémon. But I know Digimon is successful though, but it is not very popular enough to get other kids to get into the Digimon franchise after failure attempts to keep the brand afloat.
@@SSJ491 thanks for sharing that story! I had a similar experience early on with both franchises with my cousin, we experienced all the early games and shows together and had a blast!
I was 5 when Pokemon first came out and it’s iconic to my young years and consumed my life lol
@@N3RDCULTURE Thank you.
I liked both as a kid but pokemon just seemed to get way more tv time and toys and merch. The digimon action figures were amazing
Wargreymon as an action figure 😮💨
Great, video and concept. Been thinking about doing something similar. I’ve always loved Digimon.
@@JiuJitsuGundam hell yeah, you should!
"Gut wrenching"-- really? Digimon? And you showed Digimon Tri which came out decades after its initial release. I mean, the tri series was definitely a punch to the gut in terms of being godawful.
I disagree.
Tri has quality issues and flaws, but had some tear jerker moments depending on attachment to characters. 🤷
Tbh tamers and jeri would be a better example. Leomon, her relationship with her father, takatos heartache watching her emotionally spiral after losing her partner right up until d-reaper nabs her. Tbh jeri legit always hits me in the feels just as hard no matter how many times i watch that season
@@ETPlaygroundI can’t watch Tentomon going into his mega form without tearing up.
@@melissamurray8307 Jeez that scene. It's one of those scenes I watch, and then the gravity of what just happen just hit me later.
Tri isn't what I'd consider god awful. it was fine. I actually prefer it over Kizuna outside of the runtime.
Hey, I just discovered your channel and gotta say that you're so underrated! Your videos are so well edited! You deserve 10,000 subscribers.
Oh, and btw, I also like both Pokémon and Digimon.
Hey! Thanks so much I really appreciate that :) hopefully someday🤞
I agree mostly, pokemon detiorated over the years reusing the same formula, but digimon is always pretty unique, i really enjoyed ghost game
I recently started digimon cyber sleuth and it’s one of the better ones I’ve played!
Digimon lacks consistency.
It doesn't matter how many difference you make it will be a problem later because the fan base will be divided because of how it is portrayed.
I don't like this one because it's like consistency
@@zeanone9257 I think people would not go of "inconsistent" as much if they realize that Digimon is an anthology series much in the same way Final Fantasy is.
@@RippahRooJizah every game has its consistency one or the another
@@zeanone9257I personally like how each series outside of the first two series is it’s own contained universe with some being better then others and how confusing it can be, but I do like it adds variety even though it is not for everyone.
Generally speaking most of the fan base agrees that Adventure(the first two seasons) and Tamers(season 3) are wildly considered the best series while season four to six being a mixed bag. Personally I liked the first five seasons and disliked season six, Fusion because of how much the mechanics changed.
I have a lot of reasons why I prefer Digimon over Pokemon. the first movie is the biggest example why with Greymon Vs Parrotmon and then Omnimon/Omegamon wiping out millions of Diaboromons while Let's Kick It Up plays.
The original season and Tamers are still my two most favorites. I liked the story of Jerri in Tamers of having lost her mother, she gets Leomon as her own Digimon, but he dies too, making Jerri feel like she's cursed and can't love anyone because they'll be doomed to die. then we have Impmon being the most annoying character ever go on a pretty good redemption arc with him knowing Jerri hates him for killing Leomon but he still tries to save her anyway. I also loved how he was Final Fantasy 7 and FF8 themed, being an armored biker with black angel wings. all that was missing was a huge sword. Lol
Digimon hasn't been as big as it once was but it does have potential to do so again if it had good writers and designers as it did before. that, and Bandai treating it better.
Real fan right here 👆🏽
@@N3RDCULTURE I haven't watched Ghost Games yet but I hear it has some really good episodes.
One episode I'm interested in seeing is the Digimon see a human die. they ask what they'll be reborn as since Digimon always reincarnate when they die, but it is explained to them that doesn't happen for humans. when we die... that's it.
This is another example that Digimon can be really good if it has just as good writers working on it. I love it when a show isn't afraid about bringing up mature topics like this. just look at Puss in Boots 2 talking about death and appreciating the life, friends and family you have before it all ends.
Digimon can live forever, reincarnating again and again until the end of time. but what about their human partners? this is a subject I want to see in a future show.
I would honeatly say that there is a huge difference between the animes, which I consider to be quite important: Monster Appreciation/Focus.
Pokemon is about exploring the world of Pokemon and learning about not only pokemon but also how they affect their entire environments, changing not only how the location looks but also the folklore.
Digimon is more of "and this is the plant village. We live in the dessert right next to a volcano". Over all, moat of the digimon world is treated as a tourist location to just pass by instead of a fully living and breathing world. Not only that, but. Digimon living in the digital world makes it so their impact in human lives is between minimun to non-existent until the plot says "if the digital world dies, the REAL world too" (i fucking hate the human world is reffered to as the real world).
This also affects how they treat the monsters. In pokemon, hueting pokemon or mistreating theme is cause enough fo be an antagonist because, well, animal abuse. In digimon, you can be a psycho kid who goes around killing digimon with your digimon, and and then try to kill another kid's digimon pet and still be considered normal and an option for a friend (yeah this comes from Tamers).
But, there is alao the fact that digimon themselves ans humans give little value to digimon lives unless it is a pet.
This takes away from the importance of the monster in the monster franchise.
And there is the second biggest difference: human/monster relationship.
I'm sorry, but until Savers, digimon has no good human/monster relationship since all digimon have the same personality or have the same devotion to their human master. This goes to such a stupid degree that you can have the human partner have a crisis about the existencialism of his digimon partner, while hia digimon partner is absent from the plot and pretty much not caring at all about that.
Really, until Savers, the most independent digimon you have are Gomamon and Gabumon, the only 2 you will see disobeying their partner to do what they want. I guess you can also include Agumon because of episode 21.
Then, we have Savers where digimon have a personality which affects their partner again, not as much as Adventure but at least is there.
And, then Xros Wars had a plot which was pushed by the main lead's digimon... only to then be completely obscured by said human partner and turning the main digimon into a comic relief, taking away his importance for most of the plot... but, hey, at least he does something.
Pokemon, on the other hand, has mini archs for most pokemon and long archs for more important pokemon, where they show to be independent from the human. They show their personality and clash with their trainer, and have to work on that relationship.
Anime Quality consistency:
One last point is the consistency of the animes.
Let's be honest, until Black and White, the pokemon anime was improving. Repetitive? Yeah, but was moving forward or at the very least not degrading.
Digimon 02 is quite worse than Adventure, and the fans know that. Tamers, despite being held as the best series, had the biggest fall in audience because of beinf boring ans quite slow. Frontier almost gave the final punch to the series, completely removing digimon partners. Savers, despite me loving it, tried to be shounen but didn't catch many people. Ans Xros Wars, despite me loving it, had very poor ratings.
This ends up giving the impression that Adventure was the only good one because is the only one which stayed popular.
@@gregorythestallion2984 i appreciate the thorough break down and good points on the animes 👍🏽
@@gregorythestallion2984 Ok here we go. Where to start. First half, no offense but most of the 1st half of your comment is nonsense.
1. Digimon and human worlds dont impact eachother
> Yes they do and massively via the internet. The contents of sites is even responsible for entire species existence. Most machine digimon only exist due to that. Digimon in most canons besides tamers also existed pre-digital age and influenced human religion and folklore heavily with the few times the two worlds interacted. Its canon that the bible exists because digimon like angemon came to earth at some point. Their world however fused with part of the internet which changed it and them to be digital.
2.Going around deleting digimon with no attachment cheapens them as monsters. Both humans and digimon do this
>. While yes they do that, the humans are usually kids, generally thinking theyre in a dream or game world deleting npc programs or pretend conputer creatures. At some point they realize realize that digimon are alive and what theyre doing is bad and also come to terms with the fact they may need to do it anyway. The plot is high stakes unlike pokemon. Digimon have evil to stop and 2 worlds to save. Pokemon have 8 badges at stake and a tournament to win.
>your also thinking about animals as pets. Have you seen a horror movie before? Monsters arent supposed to be cuddly and nice. Pokemon isnt really a story about monsters in that regard. Its about magic animal pets playing battle sports. They also have less agency than digimon because again, pets. Digimon act as partners and if you mistreat them they may even turn on you. [Look up digimon survive and the wendigomon scene. A digimon bites his partners head off]. THATS A MONSTER. Pokemon cheapens its creatures as monsters by making them too friendly while digimon maintains that they can be friendly but are still monsters and will act like it at times. The big difference in the two series treats their creatures is pokemons creator based pokemon off childhood bug catching and pet bugs. Digimon is heavily influenced by monster cinema like godzilla or gamera and tokusatsu series like super sentai(power rangers in the west) or kamen rider.
The rest is all good points tho. A few are debatable but still valid imo.
@@Coomamon_Memes Hello there, I think you missed the part where I said "anime". I'm not a huge Digimon lore expert. Outside from playing most of their games, I didn't really find the V-pets fun nor do I like reading manuals for lore. Along with digimon having a pretty mismanaged lore overall.
I may also add that I haven't watched Universe, Adventure 2020 nor Ghost Game.
So, going over the points:
1. Digimon and human worlds dont impact eachother
I don't know how it works in the v-pet lore, but for what I watched in the anime, because (again) I was talking about the animes, digimon don't really have an impact in the human World besides the excuse of "Destroying the Digital World destroys the Real World's 'technology'".
Pretty much every series makes a point of how unaware humans are about Digimon.
I totally see the Real World influecing the Digital World:
*In Adventure is explain that the Digital World was created by human feelings in the ending of 02 (or at least theorized by a character)
*In Tamers, Digimon were created by humans and so they had a development similar to humans, even making religions because that is kinda what the creators wanted (is a shame most of that is dialogue and never truly explored).
*In Savers, all the conflict is pretty much created because of the Humans visiting the Digital Word, a human getting scared of the digimon, and so on. This has a huge impact in digimon life, but humans live mostly unaware until the Saberleomon army attacked.
*In Xros Wars... well, they didn't interacted at all, until Omegamon digimemory landed in the human world.
2.Going around deleting digimon with no attachment cheapens them as monsters. Both humans and digimon do this
Again, mostly talking about the anime, not other media, since their way of treating digimon is quite different, but still cheapening them in other ways. However I wanna stick to the anime since that is what I was talking about.
>In the anime, the issue of not really minding killing digimon mostly comes from Tamers onwards. Adventure not only never killed unneccesarilly, but 02 showed a main cast which were highly against killing Digimon until it was the last resort.
However, this changed in Tamers. Rika goes around killing digimon like nothing and even threatens Guilmon. She is aware of them being alive, she thinks they true nature is kill each other, but still we are talking about a kid willing to kill being she can talk to, and even go as far as to kill someone else's pet (and yeah, my use of the word pet is pretty deliberate when talking about Digimon in the anime, especially Tamers.
This would have been fine if there was ever a realization about killing digimon willy-nilly is bad, but that never happens. Tamers pretty much kill any digimon they see as inconvenient at the moment. With the exception of Belzeemon, but that's because the guy had a quite thick plot armor througtout all the series.
This goes as far as to Takato once showing he was eager for Guilmon to have more fights to kill and debour data to et stronger, this attitude is never challenged nor corrected.
This creates a lot of issues in the storytelling, many of which are accidental and others not so much.
They don't think they are in a dream or anything, they are fully aware.
Then, we go to Frontier, where they don't kill willy-nilly but definitely have no issues with it.
And, Savers is pretty ok with killing digimon, as long as it is not permanent. This creates other issues which you can argue were created by adventure. One, is that digimon lives don't matter since, like Dragon Ball, they just come back. Two, treats the event of death as not mattering to the digimon, not impacting them, or overall ignoring the fact that they could change who they are. This ever so slightly mention in Savers, but not really explored.
And Xros Wars, they just kill whatever they face off, and then the plot protect the digimon relevant to the plot to then make them join sides with the heroes... and the riencarnation solved everything.
It's a shame that the only anime where killing a digimon seems permanent (aside from Savers, but you need an extra step there) is Tamers, where Digimon are treated the most are pets and or animals, along with dimishing their lives and agency. Speaking of which...
>I want to really remark that I'm talking about the anime here. I really wanna focus on the anime here and why I feel pokemon have more agency than digimon. Again, this is a mostly a feel because of what I'm shown and how the shows present their monsters.
One, pokemon are the animals of the Pokemon World, they are pets, they are partners, they are animals, with this comes the charm of being an animal, with this comes the taming of an animal. For easy examples, Bulbasaur had to be convinced to join the party and then they battled; Charizard was disobedient until Ash proved himself; and other needed time to make a bond like pikachu. They obey, they disobey, they scape, they show off emotions and are not always willing to follow the plot. They are pets, but that doesn't mean they cannot feel like friends.
On the other hand, we have Digimon. Since Adventure, digimon rarely if ever they disobey their human master/owner. Now, why do I use this word? That's because Digimon are not animals nor are they monsters, they are creatures with human level intelligence (not all the time, the anime shows "feral" digimon, but most of them show to able to speak and reason with), so this takes away their chance to have animal charm. This greatly affects the way of looking at them.
What do I mean? Well, a well trained animal doing a mix of obeying and disobeying really potraits a living being. However, Digimon partners tend to land on the "Always loyal, always obedient", they attached this to an entity capable of speaking. So, even tho they should have more agency than Pokemon, they almost never show it, they act more like pets than pokemon. This does not only affect the way digimon are handled when it comes to truly show them as living being, but this also hinders their agency in the story too.
Man, Digimon cannot even afford to have a name, they just call themselves as their species...
As I mention in my first comment, this is how things go until Savers, with the exception of Gomamon, Gabumon and Agumon.
Gomamon was confrontational with Joe, when Joe gave an order Gomamon didn't like, he disobeyed (something the others don't), the episode where he evolved is a great show of this. This is not disobeying in the heat of battle, this deliberately disobeying. Man, even in Tri they respect this aspect of Gomamon, going the fuck off when feeling unwelcomed in Joe's place.
Gabumon disobeyed Matt when he told him to be alone, and his conversions with him is what helped Matt to get his character development.
Agumon was willing to abandon Tai in episode 21 when Tai had doubts about going back to the Digital World. This doesn't go so far because Tai changes opinion not based on agumon at all, making his decision mostly irrelevant, but it's something.
Adventure 02 didn't do much to improve the situation, aside from wormmon, the digimon didn't have much agency.
Then, Tamers came along and just lowered the bar to a new level. All digimon here are loyal to their owner, and are even brainwashed into it. There is one exception but what an exception.
Guilmon initiates a lot of character progression for Takato. This is good... for Takato. Guilmon is mostly unaware or unvolved of said development. His particular personality and though never really had an impact on Takato, is the other way around. This goes to such an extend that Takato has a mental breakdown about Guilmon being special or not now that he knows he is not unique and is just a recolection of data... Guilmon doesn't take part of this conflict at all, despite the conflict being about him! This applies to Megidramon too. We are told Guilmon feels something, that Takato is doing something to Guilmon, but Guilmon never gives his input in all of this, not prior, not during, nor after the event, this feeling and thoughts are just not important, only Takato's. Yeah, this worked greatly to make Takato a good character, but this was at the expends of Guilmon as a character. And when Matrix is introduced, Guilmon is straight up assessinated, is just Takato piloting the thing.
And this applies to every digimon in Tamers.
Terriermon, goes crazy when digievolving, he doesn't mind, he only cared that Henry cared. He even goes so far to say he wouldn't eat other digimon (absorb their data) because Henry didn't like it. And then Terriermon pretty much doesn't have anything else to add to the plot. Henry is the one having all the conflict and thoughts.
Rika, more of the same, she has the issue with Renamon, tells her off, plenty of times. Yet, she stays loyal to Rika to the end, like a petty dog.
Leomon didn't want anything to do with Yuri. Then, one healing ray from the newly air-spawned digivice and then he is all willy-nilly to be with Yuri and even allow her to call him by the pet name he specifically said he didn't liked.
And then Impmon... man, his entire character arch is about realizing he wants to bond back with his owners. Literatelly, a digimon going rouge was turned into a villain! Yeah, Impmon arch is good, until you realized it all happened because is a pet and the implication began falling in.
And this is my main Issue with the treatment of Digimon in the anime: the animes are about the human kids, not the digimon. Digimon are a ways to an end, not their own thing.
They are villains, info dumpers, plot devices, or visual representation of the humans character development, but they are not they own independant thing with agency.
And this truly becomes insulting in Xros Wars. Literatelly, Shoutmon kicks the story to start, and then is regarded to be a comic relief and Taiki is given all the focus, to the point where he does most of the stuff a character who wants to a king would do, like displaying charisma and being able to convince masses. So far, and so on. At least we get Dorulumon, my god.
Again, this kind of changed with Savers, Agumon definitely shows agency in the break up episode, but that mostly works for Masaru's development, Agumon's feelings are never really solved. Lalamon helps the woman (she is so irrelevant I actually forgot her name) get character development on her own accord... and Gaomon (despite being my fave) is just a servant.
The combination of no agency in the story, being used as tools in a story, and being limited to that behavior, gives the impression that are more like pets than pokemon, when it shouldn't be like that.
---------
Regarding other digimon media.
I played the story games, all the worlds and read one manga (V-Tamer 01). So, I'm not really deep in the lore of V-pets. But, I'm aware that there are different from the anime and games.
I still don't like how Digimon are hanlded the games, but that's a discussion for another time.
I do like V-Tamer01: digimon have names, digimon have agency in the story, digimon and human affect each other's character development (a few times at least), and digimon lives are treated as important.
@@gregorythestallion2984
Hello there, i think you missed the anime. You should rewatch it. Sounds like its been a while.
I really want to clarify most of my points were from plotdumps in the anime, which you should rewatch because you somehow thought i...was talking about vpets? Ok. Well whatever ill list the shows with the info to make it easy thus time.
1. Tamers
digimon partners in tamers are initially seen by both as kind of a give and take business partnership. The Digimon have access to easy evolution while tamers get access to having a digimons power. They are in no way subservient and initially just acting in their own self interest. Renamon acting much like a fuedal samurai is loyalty in a very impersonal way. She initially joins becomes rikas partner by choice and even fights other digimon for the right. Renamon treats rika as a reliable leader, a genius at digimon and aset as a tamer but eventually wants to be closer. Guilmon is a baby with all the misbehaving and innocent mistakes kids make included. He needs care and takato had to grow to do it. Terriermon is a scamp but cares what henry wants out of friendship. He doesn't want henry to suffer due to his antics. Not a servant. Its just average homie behavior.
2. Savers
Agumon in savers has a huge falling out with masaru and he and lalamon both bicker with their partners nonstop. Only gaomon acts servile and thats mainly because he respects and trusts his partner. The sir thing is admiration not servitude. Thomas is a genius so admiration is normal.
3. Xros wars
Taiki has more partner digimon than any other character outside the ganes but is a too powerful to not carry an entire series and sideline the entire rest of the cast anyway including his own partner. Its not digimon digital monsters. Its taiki digital human at that point. I 100% agree about that. Tagiru and gumdramon however have a way better dynamic imo. They bicker to the point that they barely even function as a duo.
4. Ghost game.
In ghost game gammamon is a baby like guilmon he disobeys his partner all the time and jellymon acts more like a roudy wife who has her man by the purse strings. Lol. Only angoramon is 100% chill but thats more because him and ruli are too laid back to fight and just vibe too much to disagree. Theres also gulusgammamon. It doesn't get more disobedient than being a partner and the series main antagonist. Lol.
5. Pokemon-
Pokemon like pikachu that dont listen and have agency are rare in Pokemon. Characters actually make a big deal of it because despite having the badges pikachu will still disobey if he liked. The pokeball is very much a trapping device. They are stuck with their trainers. They can even be stolen like property! Smashing the pokeball while out seems to be a solution tho but so is chewing through a leash for dogs. Not great. Pokemon for the most part have 0 agency and are basically a word starting in S that i wont say (thanks yt!) and ones like pauls chimchar show it with how servile they act towards their not so great trainers. Oh btw ash befriended paul too so that point about befriending enemies that did unforgivable stuff is null and void
That aside your forgetting the important part that makes all the servile stuff make sense in digimon. Digimon partners are linked with their human ones. They share a soul is the easiest way to put it. Adventure explains it kinda but basically if a human were to die his Digimon will too and theyre personalities are tailor made by the digital worlds will to fit their partner. Theyre not fully separate beings like you interpret and aren't really servile. Just abnormally compatible personality-wise. Thats likely why they dont have names too. They arent fully unique to eachother. Theyre 2 halves to one unit. An extension to their human partners.
If you want vpet lore, that is its own thing tho and vtamer, which you said you read, runs on that lore. Vpets dont work like digivices in that lore so Digimon are their own, independent creatures with names. If you have a partner its purely by choice and a digimon can leave whenever. Its purely business with friendship being optional. In the anime its more personal with tamers however being the closest to vpet lore. Taichi in vtamer has a vpet rather than a digivice which has a lot of drawbacks like it cant trigger evolution as easily.
That said, excluding opinions you more or less right about a lot of that. They should focus more on the Digimon as characters too Tbh i really want a season of digimon with no humans similar to the x-evolution movies plot because of that very reasoning. Digimon themselves take too much a back seat imo. Id like some character drama with them too. See how their world functions through their eyes, how they live, interact and handle problems like devimon when humans aren't being summoned to help.
I like that Digimon takes place in an alternate universe and that you get one soul bonded monster that through your bond is able to evolve. I like that there is many different evolution branches with how you take care of it playing a part in it. The story Digimon tell is great too and I love the lore as well.
bandai held digimon back the most.
because they never comprehended the potential the ip had they completely screwed up not only marketing but product releases as well.
to this day there are still several digimon games and merch products that never made it to the west all because bandai didnt care to market the franchise outside japan.
we only got digimon survive because cyber sleuth sold more copies on the international market than was anticipated.
and we only got cyber sleuth because the fans begged for an international release.
without the dedicated fanbase of digimon telling bandai to release their products on the international market the ip might have gone down the drain completely by now.
Digimon are Digital Monsters, so by absorbing data Digimon can be any Digimon. Paraphrasing what I think I have heard. So then evolution (or in English dub - digivolution) is understable why Digimon completly transforms.
@@PhantomDogman this makes sense 🤔
Actually canon fact. Digimons evolutions are influunced by absorbing data. Either from other digimon, their environment or even from websites. Also explains a lot of the waifu and furry designs tbh. Lol.
@@Coomamon_MemesIt depends on the season. While it played a big part in Tamers it was non existent in Adventure. However how you take care and raise your Digimon plays a role in each series and the v pets.
@@melissamurray8307 im talking more about digimon on their own when they evolve without partners. In that case its true across all canons. For partner digimon, the human partners emotions, personalities and personal growth matters most since theyre linked via digivice.
Thats why partner digimon have pretty linear, sensible evolution paths like agumon>greymon>metalgreymon>wargreymon. They evolve to reflect their partners.
@@Coomamon_Memes Okay, I see your point there.
Very strict Copyright Infringement Law is the reason why we almost stopped making stories inspired by them.
Come on Pokémon is not the downfall of Digimon
(Repeating this here so more people can read it)
You didn't give the Pokemon anime a fair chance. The way you compared them was not only unfair but highly biased for Digimon's side, what with blaming the Pokemon anime for not telling the same story Digimon was going for when that was never the intention of said anime. Simply because the Pokemon anime tells a different story compared to the Digimon anime doesn't make it inferior.
Also, the Pokemon anime might have started with simplistic characters and villains, however, over the years that changed. Ash from Gen 1 is not the same Ash from Sinnoh and in Kalos Ash had to deal with a villain (Lysandre) that is nowhere close to being as childish as Team Rocket was back then.
@@toumabyakuya those are fair points 🤔
Pokémon is the Minecraft to Digimon's Terraria.
Well put lol
What the Jigglypuff doing?!!!😂😂😂😂
Made me laugh too when I saw it 😂
Game Freak has to do better 😂😂😂😂
i hope seeing the success in palworld made them realize they need to step it up
Digimon Survive is finally good....
Was there an update?
i remember Digimon evolutions in the game were amazing on gameboy advanced i hope they bring it back pokemon games r 2 clunky now a days mainly because open world pokemon games just started happening in 2023 the next will be better unless they continue trying new mechanics
@@christophernewhouse5832 Digimon cyber sleuth is probably one of the closest to what I want in a Digimon game but it’s still missing some oomf, I really hope Digimon uses new gaming technology to make the game we all want from them 🙌🏽
Digimon failed to produce a product that people can understand.
What the hell is a digimon? In short it’s vpet that you raise from baby to adult.
The only consistent product that conveys this are its keychain vpet. No other product (games, anime) conveys the vpet raising clearly…
That’s why digimon failed. Pokémon it’s simple. Catch battle be the very best… straight forward to the point.
i respect what digimon tried to do with their tv anime. i find digigimon adventure (1+2+ tri) and its remake (2020) a very flawed in character personalities,story, and dub voice acting is whiney at best for adventure 1+2 and tri is just a overglorified teen drama. the spin offs were better story quality. tamers is clearly best written
Digimon's Realtime V-pet Origin was with some exceptions like Nintendogs a 90s Fad, with the anime, cards, & merch being the 3 main pillars holding up Digimon for the past 25 Years. I don't know why Digimon's Cardgame failed compared to Pokemon's, although Yugioh was the undisputed 2nd Generation King of Cardgames. Magic the Gathering was the G1 King before my time & I guess you could argue it was Dragon Ball to Digimon's Bleach to use the Shonen Jump Big 3 as a comparison to cardgames.
As for the Anime & Merch, Pokemon focusing on Ash & Pikachu consistently for over 2 Decades was much more successful in the long term than replacing the protagonists each year. Also the 3-4 Year Generations with Catch Em All of about 100 new mons compared to the random reveals Digimon has was the better strategy. Combined with that is the problem of Digimon's Strategy of hiding away every few years starting after Frontier opposed to a regular presence which hurts merch.
That’s a good point. More direct consistency could’ve helped digimon for sure.
@@N3RDCULTURE To put it simply Pokemon had nothing to do with Digimon's failure rather it was failed strategies by Digimon's owners. It's a complicated subject although to start with Digimon isn't a high priority series for either Toei or Bandai which is why the series doesn't have a constant presence. Pokemon conversely is almost everything to 2 of its 3 owners, however Nintendo still treats it as 1 of their 3 highest priority series.
As for the consistency with Pokemon you'll usually get various species & you have Pokedex Numbers for everything. Digimon it's much more rare for say Veemon, Hawkmon, Armadillomon, Guilmon, or Renamon to appear outside of their respective seasons. Some Digimon have been locked to the V-Pets for decades like Holy Digitamamon, The D-Reaper is Tamers & Cardgame Exclusive, Did Galacticmon ever appear in anything other than World 3?
The Pokemon anime is being downplayed way too much, a lot of the things that you said about digimon can be applied, pokemon did that bonding thing before digimon, pokemon does it much more and the pokemon anime was not about catching all the pokemon. It was about ash's adventure and bonding with his pokemon.
@@SailorStarHero i still love both shows and if I HAD to I’d still choose Pokemon over Digimon
You don’t have to bond with your Pokémon to make them stronger while you do with your Digimon. In fact in some universes Digimon are literally soul bonded to you. Also, most of the time Pokémon are kept in their balls with some rare exceptions like Pikachu and they don’t need to be ordered around all the time.
Pokémon succeeded because the video games were actually good. Digimon did not have that
@@edgarcism yeah aside from a couple decent Digimon games the Pokémon franchise blew them out the water in the gaming industry
the past few pokemon games were utter garbage the hell you yappin on about?
@@spareaccount-w8h It's garbage only for some core gamers, but it's still good introductory games for the general public.
@@spareaccount-w8h well for comparison every digimon game ever made has been utter garbage..
@@edgarcism Except the actually good Digimon games, and there are a number of good, or even decent, Digimon games.
That said, in Digimon's case there was also a bunch of Digimon games that just never came out outside Japan. It wasn't until Cyber Sleuth that Digimon games had consistent US releases. Even the first Digimon game never came out in the US.
How can you say the digimon anime was a higher quality when it would re play “digimoj digit monsters digimon are the champions” sequence over and over 😂again
@@edgarcism lol well theme song aside, the anime objectively does have better themes and diverse situations
Bro its because digimon anime has a story with actual character development and plots with stakes. It has more to offer than ash walking about losing every battle, not aging and learning nothing for 25 years before finally winning an official league .😂. The op theme makes it bad. PFFFT. Pure cope🤡.
@@Coomamon_Memes oh yeah because there's so much character development in "Digimon digital monsters digimon are the champions (x10) "*episode over*
@@edgarcism Then go watch subs. That theme song you keep referring to is specifically a US creation.
@@RippahRooJizahThe original has way better songs with the insert song “Brave Heart,” being my favorite.
closest pokemon came to digimon storytelling was gale of darkness. which we need a new gen version of.
@@kodhimac a revamped gale of darkness would be sick
Uh no its not. Literally no digimon series has anything similar to XD at all.
if you meant "dark", that is also a no.
pokemon just a better job in writing and character devlopment
digimon killed itself, it turned pretty shit after 2nd season
Weird how Tamers is usually considered the best season then
I really liked the Digimon in Tamers as well
Tamers, Savers and Ghost Game are better than 2nd season in my eyes, Digimon anime is consistent unlike Pokemon, the only season which sucked was the third season of Xros Wars.
Digimon Tamers was a good show, until that creepy girl at the end gave me the worst nightmares in my entire life. That's when they made horror to a new level. The horror part is when I don't like about Digimon, which that was introduced in Digimon Adventure 02/Zero Two with the dark ocean (Kari Kamiya, Ken Ichijouchi, and Yolei Inoue had been affected by it) @@N3RDCULTURE
That didn't get an international release around early 2010s, because of low ratings. Speaking of which, Digimon Universe: Appli Monsters didn't get an international release either in 2017. @@darkmarv8045